1 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio, the George 2 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty Armstrong and. 3 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: Get Kid and he Armstrong and Getty strong Man not 4 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 2: live from Studio c Armstrong and Getty. We're off for 5 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 2: taking a break. 6 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 3: And as long as we're off, perhaps you'd like to 7 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 3: catch up on podcasts, subscribe to Armstrong and Getty on 8 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 3: demand or one more thing we think you'll enjoy. 9 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 2: It, sir well. 10 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 4: Currently Tom McClintock is represents the fifth District of California. 11 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 4: Will that remain the same after Gavin Newsom gets If 12 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 4: Gavin Newsom gets his way by redistricting in California to 13 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 4: try to take on the evil Texans. Any who, Welcome 14 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 4: to the Armstrong and Getty Show. Old friend, Tom McClintock again, 15 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 4: Republican Congressman, fifth District of California. 16 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 2: How are you this morning? Tom? 17 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 5: I'm fine? Jack. How are you doing great? 18 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 4: You've been in California politics forever. What is the back 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 4: and forth over the years, as you know it of 20 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 4: like drawing up districts and whether it was fair or 21 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 4: not and all that sort of stuff in California? 22 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 5: Well, as you know California, all state's reapportion every ten 23 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 5: years because of population shifts, the populations of the districts 24 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 5: have to be as equal as we could make them. That, 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 5: of course, then opens the door to Gary mandering, which 26 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 5: has a long history. It goes back to Elbridge Gary, 27 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 5: governor of Massachusetts, signer of the Declaration of Independence, you know, 28 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 5: who first began a joggling line so that his party 29 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 5: would benefit. He drew one district that looked like a salamander. 30 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 5: A newspaper editor said no, let's call it a Gary mander, 31 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 5: and the name stuck. But the problem is, over the 32 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 5: years has gone from artwork to science and it can 33 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 5: now be used to badly distort the partisan the choices 34 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 5: that the voters make in every election. 35 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 4: And is there any way to do away with this? 36 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 4: I mean, it's been going on since the very very beginning. 37 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 4: Lots of democratic states are all jerry mandered to hack. 38 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 4: As we all should know by now, Texas isn't inventing 39 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 4: something new. 40 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, California did get sick and tired of it, 41 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 5: and they adopted constitutional provision calling for it independent commission. 42 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 5: That's what news was trying to bypass. The California Commission 43 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 5: this year in order to do the reapportionment, held one 44 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 5: hundred and ninety six public meetings. They received more than 45 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 5: thirty thousand written communications over nine months. They listened to 46 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 5: every constituency and community in the state, and they drafted 47 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 5: a consensus plan public. This I guess you could call 48 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 5: it a Gavin mander was drafted behind closed doors in 49 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 5: a matter of days, and if they succeed, I think 50 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 5: we'd expect this to happen after every election that the 51 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 5: Democrats don't like the way a particular district voted well. 52 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 4: So Republicans account for about thirty eight percent of the 53 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 4: vote the last election around, and if Gavin gets his way, 54 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 4: would have seven percent of the House members in the state. 55 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: So that's obviously out of proportion. 56 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 5: And that's with the Independent Commission. It's still a stack 57 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 5: deck against California Republicans, mainly because illegal aliens are counted 58 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 5: for districting, which increases the proportional influence in Democratic regions. So, 59 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 5: as you point out, it's not only stacked against Pornia Republicans. 60 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 5: You look at the vote nationally in twenty twenty four, 61 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 5: Democrats dot forty seven percent of the congressional vote, they 62 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 5: got forty nine percent of the congressional seats. That that's 63 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 5: eight seats more than their vote would entitle them. And 64 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 5: that's because in the democratic seat states, the gary manders 65 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 5: are absolutely brutal. You know, in Illinois, California's got Republicans 66 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 5: got forty seven percent of the vote, seventeen percent of 67 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 5: the seats. Massachusetts, California's Republicans got thirty five percent of 68 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 5: the vote and zero seats. 69 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 4: That is really interesting stuff. I wish the mainstream media 70 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 4: was better at presenting that. And then the jerrymandering gary mandering, 71 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 4: as you call it, polls very low, like six percent 72 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 4: of Americans liked the idea, but it happens all across 73 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 4: the country. 74 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 5: Well, right, and again Californians got rid of that. The Democrats, 75 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 5: by the way, tried to abolish the Independent Commission once before. 76 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 5: That was in twenty ten with Proposition twenty seven. Voters 77 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 5: rejected at sixty forty. So, you know, and I think 78 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 5: most Americans, whatever their politics, having in it night an 79 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 5: innate sense of fairness, and I think that's going to 80 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 5: be decisive when this comes up to a vote. 81 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 4: So talking with Republican California Congressman Tom McClintock of California. 82 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 4: The most recent piece i'm reading here about immigration. I 83 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 4: wish that somehow, some way quickly it would get to 84 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 4: the Supreme Court. This whole notion of a sanctuary city, 85 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 4: sanctuary county, sanctuary state, which seems obviously crazy. The whole 86 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 4: thing with illegal immigration, the way Joe and I have 87 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 4: been presenting it for quite some time, is if you're 88 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 4: going to ignore the federal law, what other federal laws 89 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 4: can we ignore if we don't like them in states 90 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 4: across the country. Can we just pick and choose federal 91 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 4: laws that we want to ignore and which ones we 92 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 4: want to go with. 93 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 2: What's your take on it? Currently? 94 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 5: All right? And if you're going to tolerate illegal immigration, 95 00:05:55,000 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 5: it makes legal immigration pointless and startles some simple truths. 96 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 5: If we don't enforce our immigration laws, we have no 97 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 5: immigration laws. If we have no immigration laws, we have 98 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 5: no border. If we have no border, we have no country. 99 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 5: It's not complicated. Our immigration laws weren't written to keep 100 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 5: people out. They were written to assure that when someone 101 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 5: comes to this country, they come with a sincere desire 102 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 5: to become an American, to obey our laws and contribute 103 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 5: to our nation. Illegal immigration undermines that whole process. And 104 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 5: that's why our current law requires any adult who is 105 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 5: illegal in this country to be detained. That's the exact 106 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 5: wording of the law. Shall be detained. It is not voluntary, 107 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 5: it is required under the law. That's the law that 108 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 5: Biden and the Democrats ignored over the last four years, 109 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 5: producing the biggest illegal migration in American history. And now 110 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 5: they're shocked that the biggest illegal migration in American history 111 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 5: that they unleashed now has to be followed by the 112 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 5: biggest deportation. 113 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 4: So Republicans control Congress right now and the Senate. Is 114 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 4: there anything Congress can do to strengthen immigration laws so 115 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 4: that it's the law of the land and not just 116 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 4: something that one administration does, so that if the Democrats 117 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 4: win next time around, they can go the other direction. 118 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 5: Right, Well, it is already the law of the land. 119 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 5: And remember the Democrats saying, oh, there's nothing we can 120 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 5: do about this without granting amnesty. And as Trump pointed out, 121 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 5: we didn't need new laws, we needed a new president. 122 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 5: We got one, and within thirty days the borders were secured, 123 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 5: and I think The last number is we're get close 124 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 5: to two million illegal migrants have now departed the country, 125 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 5: either voluntarily or been for simply removed. But we also, 126 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 5: and this is where Congress comes in, We've got to 127 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 5: enact law so that a future Democratic president can't once 128 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 5: again simply throw our borders wide open. So we've got 129 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 5: to reform our asylum laws to ensure that only legitimate 130 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 5: claims will be honored and those who are making such 131 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 5: claims are detained until they're adjudicated. We've got to close 132 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 5: the loopholes, and that means, you know, making the loopholes 133 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 5: that allowed Biden to abuse the limited parole authority to 134 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 5: congresscate them. We've got to revamp our unaccompanied minor laws 135 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 5: to prevent human trafficking that ran rampant under Biden. And 136 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 5: we've got to rescue the hundreds of thousands of children 137 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 5: that that Biden simply lost track of. And we've got 138 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 5: to restore integrity to our temporary and permanent visa programs 139 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 5: so that only those who are an asset to America 140 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 5: can take advantage of them. The Office to Inspector General 141 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 5: is about to come out with the report I think 142 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 5: that they documented that during the Biden administration there were 143 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 5: thirteen million visas granted that were completely unbetted. Now, when 144 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 5: you apply for a visa, you go to the American 145 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 5: consulate in your country and there's an interview. They interview you, 146 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 5: they check your background to be sure that as you 147 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 5: come in with the visa, you're not going to do 148 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 5: any harm and you know that you're going to bude 149 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 5: by the terms of the visa. Thirteen million such visas 150 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 5: were issued under Biden without any betting whatsoever, and that's 151 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 5: what the administration's reviewing. 152 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 4: Now another topic before we let you go, Congressom McClintock. 153 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 4: One of the big news stories of today Trump talking 154 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 4: about sending National Guard troops to Chicago to deal with 155 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 4: their crime. Now, I think we're all up to speed 156 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 4: on the fact that the president of the federal government 157 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 4: has the constitutional right to do that in Washington, d C. 158 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 2: How do you feel about National Guard troops in Chicago. 159 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 5: Well, I'm a federalist, and the federal government is absolutely 160 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 5: supreme in the Federal District of Columbia, as you pointed out, 161 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 5: and they are also supreme in the enforcement of federal 162 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 5: laws like our immigration laws and the President has been 163 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 5: brilliant at both. But local laws are subject to local jurisdiction. 164 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 5: I think we want to be careful if a city 165 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 5: is not actually asking for assistance. I think we want 166 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 5: to be careful about how we insert federal authority into 167 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 5: the enforcement of strictly local laws. And that's going to 168 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 5: play out. Obviously. I'm not entirely clear what the President's 169 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 5: proposing for Chicago, but in a local law enforcement needs 170 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 5: to remain in local hands, no matter how badly those 171 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 5: local hands are handling it. 172 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 2: I would agree with that. Interesting. Tom McLintock, appreciate your 173 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 2: time today. Tom, Thank you very. 174 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 5: Much, my pleasure. Jack good talking to you. 175 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 2: I would agree with that. 176 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 4: I am not only skeptical of his legal power to 177 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 4: send National Guard troops to Chicago, but I don't know 178 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 4: how I feel about that as a president, and as 179 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 4: Joe and I always talking about Jo's in England on vacation. 180 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 2: He's going to call in later. 181 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 4: But as Joe and I are always talking about the 182 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 4: problem with giving your guy the power to do something 183 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 4: or looking the other way if he does something that, 184 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 4: uh like maybe send troops Chicago, is the other guy 185 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 4: the other side's going to be in charge at some point, 186 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 4: and do you want, you know, President Gavin Newsom sending 187 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 4: National Guard troops into a conservative city somewhere because he 188 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 4: doesn't like the way that place is being run. 189 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 2: No, I don't. 190 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 6: Armstrong, the Armstrong and Yetti show the LATINX stuff that. 191 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 2: By the way, not one person ever in my office 192 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 2: has ever used the word LATINXT. So can we finally 193 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 2: put that to bed? But where did that even know? 194 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 2: More LATINX? Everybody? Well, I just didn't even know where 195 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 2: it came from, And like, what are people talking about? 196 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 7: I hope we can really paint a picture in terms 197 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 7: of our consciousness of how impactful. 198 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 5: This has been on the LATINX community. 199 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 7: About three quarters of renters in the state that have 200 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 7: fallen behind and rent represented the Latino in African American community. 201 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 2: The Latin and Black communities. 202 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 5: You've got politicians that are banning not assault. 203 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: Rifles, but the word latin X. They're not even serious. Wow, 204 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 2: that's even further. 205 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 4: So that's Gavin Newsom doing his bro podcasts that he's 206 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 4: doing all across the country now as he tries to 207 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 4: be like just a regular guy running for president, and 208 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 4: he's doing a pretty good job of it might work 209 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 4: for him, but claiming that latin X whoever even heard 210 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 4: of that before? 211 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: What does that even mean? 212 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 4: And then a little montage of him using the term 213 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,479 Speaker 4: in recent years, including one and where he's fighting against 214 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 4: trying to take away the word latin X lasting anybody 215 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 4: who would dare disparage it? 216 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 2: Oh boy, but how bet it works. 217 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 4: People don't hear the you know, like in newspapers or books, 218 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 4: there's the big headline and then there's a little sentence underneath. 219 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 2: People don't hear the sentence underneath. 220 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 4: Ninety percent of people, they just get the big headline 221 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 4: of everything, of every story. 222 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 2: And you know that's funny. 223 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 4: Though, He's got to run away from so much of 224 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 4: that stuff because it's so freaking crazy. 225 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean yeah. 226 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 3: The list is long of policies that are abhorrent to 227 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 3: most Americans and or results that are abhorrent to Americans. 228 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 3: For instance, as we outlined last hour, cal Unicorney has 229 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 3: lost one hundred and a half hundred thousand private sector 230 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 3: jobs and added three hundred and sixty one thousand government 231 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 3: jobs since twenty twenty two. 232 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 2: It's just astonishing. 233 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 4: Well, let's be here, let's be happy about this stuff though, people, 234 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 4: Rather than condemning the hypocrisy, we should be happy he 235 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 4: understands that he needs to run away from the nonsense 236 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 4: like trans boys in girls sports or the term LATINX, 237 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 4: which is one of the dumbest things that's ever happened 238 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 4: in my lifetime. He has to run away from it 239 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 4: if he wants to be present. He is determined, and 240 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 4: he's right, and that's good news, right it is. 241 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 3: Although don't let down your guard because we've received I 242 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 3: don't know half a dozen emails just in the last 243 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 3: four eight hours from folks that are getting ready to 244 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 3: get back in the classroom as teachers in California and 245 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 3: are going through their state mandated DEI white supremacist woke 246 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 3: doctrine right now. They're getting educated in that quote unquote educated. 247 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 3: So getting back to Gavy, and we talked about this 248 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 3: fairly recently. If you're just tuning in, but the whole 249 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 3: bed bath and beyond thing, the head of bed bath 250 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 3: and beyond. Do you have that statement or I mean 251 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,359 Speaker 3: for people who are not familiar, just real quickly. 252 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: Yes, I do. 253 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, this is I got the other screen up 254 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 4: about shrekking, a dating trend in which people are dating 255 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 4: unattracted people on purpose. That story we got to get 256 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 4: to later this hour. Yes, yes, yes, and different species 257 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 4: of giraffes. Yes, I already did the giraffes shreaking. We 258 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 4: will do this hour though. It's an actual thing and 259 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 4: it's really quite an entertaining point. So the CEO of Bed, 260 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 4: Bath and Beyond puts out a statement yesterday we will 261 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 4: not operate or open retail stores in California. This decision 262 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 4: isn't about politics, It's about reality. California has created one 263 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 4: of the most overregulated, expensive and risky environments for business 264 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 4: in America. It's a system that makes it harder to 265 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 4: employ people, harder to keep doors open, and harder to 266 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 4: deliver value to customers. The result higher taxes, higher fees, 267 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 4: higher wages that many businesses simply cannot sustain. 268 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 3: And then Gavin Newsom, in a snarky social media post yesterday, replied. 269 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 6: The company that already went bankrupt and closed every store 270 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 6: across the country two years ago. 271 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 3: Okay, all right, so Gavin, here is my response to 272 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 3: your sarcasm. 273 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: Anti rooms. Oh yeah, Foyer, window, don't get. 274 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 4: Me started, window Fredow Treatments. 275 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 3: Okay, that's all absolutely, yes, although you do have windows 276 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 3: in beds and baths. 277 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 2: Michael, So is it really it's a good point. 278 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, where were we I'm sure there was a thread. 279 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 3: Oh yes, So Gavin's snark about a CEO saying your 280 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 3: state is so hostile to business and so difficult to 281 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 3: operate in, we're not even going to try. And instead 282 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 3: of addressing policy, he says, oh yeah, the same company 283 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 3: that went bankrupt and closed all their stores two years ago. 284 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 3: Let me explain something to you, Gavin. Because you were 285 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 3: born with a silver spoon in your mouth, you've been 286 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 3: successful in business because you've been bankrolled up to your ears. 287 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: By all of your rich relatives. Uh. But here's the 288 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: way it works. 289 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 3: Big companies sometimes failed to adjust with the times. Something 290 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 3: you know, changes whatever, they're unsuccessful, they declare bankruptcy and 291 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 3: they reorganize. Bed Bath and Beyond has a lot of fans. 292 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 3: It's a cool store. I'm a fan, Judy and I 293 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 3: shop there for a lot of stuff for years and years, 294 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 3: and we're super bummed to hear it was closing. Well, 295 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 3: now they're reopening with a little different concept that's going 296 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 3: to be better for consuming and more likely to be 297 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 3: a successful business. 298 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 2: It's the very thing we treasure in America. 299 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 3: Gavin innovation, adaptation, creativity. 300 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 2: And sticking to it. 301 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 3: And these people who are doing that said, the one 302 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 3: place we're not gonna bother is California because it's so 303 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 3: hostile to business. Go ahead, gavey, give us some more 304 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 3: of your clever clever snark. 305 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 2: H what a blank? That's That was the perfect way 306 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 2: to end my screed. 307 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: The Armstrong and Getty Show or Jack yourghoe. 308 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 3: Podcasts and our hot links. 309 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 6: The Armstrong and Getty Show. 310 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. 311 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 4: Now old friend of the Armstrong and Getty Show and 312 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 4: a fan favorite. We always get so many texting emails saying, man, 313 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 4: I love Tim. It's Tim Sanderfer from the Goldwater Institute. Tim, welcome, 314 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 4: thanks for having me. Is there a title you want. 315 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 5: A title? Uh? 316 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 8: Well, I know as a Jeffersonian Democratic Republican, small government libertarian, 317 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 8: I'm against titles. But my official title is a vice 318 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 8: president for Legal Affairs at the Goldwater Institute, which is 319 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 8: a free market think tank and litigation organization headquartered in Phoenix, 320 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 8: and my job is to sue the government for a living. 321 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 2: Best job in the world. Oh, thank God for you. 322 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 8: And I win every time, right, you know, but. 323 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 4: But just well, sometimes you do win. And the fact 324 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 4: that they know they can be sued is probably got 325 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 4: to keep them mining their p's and ques at least 326 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 4: a little bit. 327 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 2: Sometimes. 328 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 8: Yes, as long as the government still respects the law, 329 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 8: you know, hopefully there will be myself, my colleagues, and 330 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 8: you know, our sister organizations across the country who are 331 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 8: trying as best we can to hold the government's feet 332 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 8: to the constitutional fire. 333 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 4: I'm feeling a wide range conversation today for some reason. 334 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 4: That is just my mood. So you started with mentioning titles. 335 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 4: Why do you think people refer to dictators by the 336 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 4: title that they want all the time? I'm amazed that 337 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 4: everybody in the media, including President Trump, calls putin president putin, I. 338 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 2: Mean, and Bobama did two and Biden did too. 339 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 4: So it's not just Trump, but why they're not president, 340 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 4: they're a dictator. 341 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 2: So why do we go along with their language? We 342 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 2: do the same thing, we presidently agree. 343 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 8: This has bothered me for years. This has bugged me 344 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 8: so long that but you know, it's because we don't 345 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 8: want to be judgmental. 346 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: We don't want to. 347 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 8: We don't want to call things by their right names 348 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 8: and say Dictator Putin because that might offend him. So 349 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 8: instead we give him the kind of false legitimacy that 350 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 8: is exactly what he craves. I think it's a terrible thing, 351 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 8: but it's in that way all my life. 352 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's weird that the the the Free West 353 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 4: does that. You want us to call you by a 354 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 4: certain name. Oh, sure we will. Oh, okay, I guess 355 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 4: that's what we did. Another question for you, So I 356 00:19:58,119 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 4: was just reading. 357 00:19:58,680 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: I know you know a lot about Wayman. 358 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 4: Oh the robotox is you actually visited their plant? 359 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 2: They make them in Phoenix. 360 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 8: They well, I don't think they make them in Phoenix, 361 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 8: but they have a headquarters in Phoenix. Phoenix is one 362 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 8: of their largest cities that they are operating in, and 363 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 8: they have a garage there which is where all the cars, 364 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 8: you know, they're all electric cars, so that's where they 365 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 8: go to recharge. And my wife and I got a 366 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 8: chance to go down there and take a tour of 367 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 8: their facility and ride for our first time in a 368 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 8: way Mow And since then, I've I've I take every 369 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,479 Speaker 8: excuse I can to ride in them because I just 370 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 8: there's the technology is just mind bogging, and I just 371 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 8: loved standing there in the garage watching these cars come 372 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 8: in and look for parking spaces, and they looked exactly 373 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 8: like a human was driving them, you know, pausing and 374 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 8: backing up because oh there's a spot, and that sort 375 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 8: of thing, exactly like me at the airport, and yet 376 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 8: there's nobody driving them. And I had thought that it 377 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 8: would feel weird to ride in one, and that went 378 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 8: away in five seconds. After that, it felt exactly like 379 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 8: riding in a car with somebody driving it, except there 380 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 8: was nobody in the I have'n't seen it interesting, absolutely 381 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 8: marvelous technology. 382 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 4: I wondered about that because I've got a self driving Tesla, 383 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 4: so I'm used to the concept, and I wondered what 384 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 4: it was like for people who haven't done that before. 385 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 4: But that's why I was when I wrote a Waymo 386 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 4: for the first time in San Francisco. Within a couple 387 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 4: of seconds, it was, oh cool, I get to control 388 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 4: the music, and I was looking at the little computer 389 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 4: in front of me and picking my mind. 390 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 8: I haven't been this enthusiastic about a piece of technology 391 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 8: in a very long time. They have already just statistically speaking, 392 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 8: they have already saved tens of thousands of lives, probably 393 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 8: in the amount of in just the amount of time 394 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 8: they've already been operating in these cities. They're going to 395 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 8: make driving as safe as flying. It's incredible. I'm blown 396 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 8: away by how safe and natural it feels to ride 397 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 8: in these and you know, it's particularly good for the blind. 398 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 8: You know, blind people particular love this technology because they 399 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 8: can they don't have to get in the car with 400 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 8: somebody they don't know, like. 401 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 2: They do with Uber. 402 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 8: And they can take their dogs, which you sometimes can't 403 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 8: do in an Uber. And when you call the someon 404 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 8: your your robot car, it arrives and it plays a 405 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 8: tune so you know where it is, you know, and 406 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 8: these sorts of techno. It's just a marvelous how it's 407 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 8: opened up the door for people who otherwise wouldn't have 408 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 8: had those opportunities. 409 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 410 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 4: I like the technology and everything. This is where we're 411 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 4: probably going to part. I hate the idea that the 412 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 4: autonomy of getting to drive where I want to go 413 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 4: and having control over it is going to go away, 414 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 4: whether I like it or not. 415 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 2: I hate that so much. It makes me want to cry. 416 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 8: I do worry about that. No, I worry about that, 417 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 8: and I worry about the how easy it would be 418 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 8: for the government to say, well, we want to track 419 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 8: where everybody drives, and you know, we'll run their record 420 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 8: while they're in the car, and then if we think 421 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 8: that they need to be arrested, we'll just reroute the 422 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 8: car to the police station or something like that. You 423 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 8: can easily imagine the dystopian ends to which this can 424 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 8: be used, But all technology can be abused in that way, 425 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 8: and there is no abolishing the technologies of the solution. 426 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 8: The solution is good philosophical and political idea. Isn't a 427 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 8: belief in individual rights and limited government? And since we've 428 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 8: thrown that on the bonfire in the past decade or so, 429 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 8: I mean, this is basically, honestly, this is the least 430 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 8: of our concerns in that respect. 431 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think about when I was Now, it's 432 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 4: not that many years ago. I'm an old man. I 433 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 4: mean the winter of my life, but it wasn't that 434 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 4: many decades ago. 435 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 8: Look a day over eighty. 436 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 2: But I've driven all over this country. I long, I 437 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: love long road trips. 438 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 4: But I used to head out on road trips, and 439 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 4: you know, I'd stop at a hotel. I stay in 440 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 4: cheap hotels. They'd have the key hanging on a peg 441 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 4: behind the door. Nobody knew I was there. Nobody knew 442 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 4: I was there. 443 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 2: After I left. 444 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 4: Now I've got a self driving car that keeps track 445 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 4: of every mile I drive, everywhere I go, I parked, 446 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 4: there's license plate readers going through every parking lot checking 447 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,239 Speaker 4: where I was, and they've got all the information at 448 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 4: the hotel. I mean, my entire trip is tracked. So 449 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 4: in my lifetime it's gone from I could have traveled 450 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 4: across the country completely without. 451 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 2: A single human being knowing where I was. 452 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 4: To now thousands of people and maybe all governments knowing 453 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 4: where I am. 454 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 2: I find that trouble. 455 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 8: I totally sympathize. I think this is I would say 456 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 8: this is there's something very American about this tension between 457 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 8: on one hand, wanting the convenience that modern technology gives 458 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 8: you and modern civilization gives you, but on the other hand, 459 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 8: the want the desire to light out for the territory 460 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 8: and just be away and free and keep something you 461 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 8: might say wild alive in your spirit is a very 462 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,719 Speaker 8: important part of life, and so I totally get that. 463 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 8: My wife and I love to go on long drives 464 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 8: and get away from things also, and so I. But 465 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 8: on the other hand, with this option available for those 466 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 8: who are willing to sacrifice a little bit of their 467 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 8: privacy in exchange for the enormous convenience of it. The 468 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 8: answer is that that both options should be available, and 469 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 8: both options would be available in a society that respected 470 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 8: individual rights. Unfortunately, our society respects that so much less 471 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 8: now is that I do very much worry about a 472 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 8: future where truly, you know, individual cars allowing you to 473 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 8: drive wherever you want are outlawed. I can imagine that, Oh, 474 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 8: insurance companies. 475 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 4: Will take Yeah, the insurance companies will take care of that, 476 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 4: because as soon as this just the stats are so 477 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 4: overwhelmingly true that it's less likely you're going to get 478 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 4: our wreck with an automated car than without one. The 479 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 4: insurance company is going to make it so expensive you 480 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 4: can't afford to drive a car on your own. 481 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 8: Yeah, I can imagine that. It's sort of a gatica 482 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 8: kind of a situation. 483 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 2: I don't know that term. 484 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 8: Oh Gatka is a great movie from the nineties to 485 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 8: about a dystopian future where it's just run along these 486 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 8: lines where your entire genetic code is sort of sequenced 487 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 8: the head of time, and so people know whether you're 488 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 8: likely to develop a health condition in the future and 489 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 8: limit your opportunities accordingly, not necessarily through government control, but 490 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,239 Speaker 8: through a sick blend of government and private companies that 491 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 8: exercise their power to deprive you of opportunity. Ah, if 492 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 8: you haven't seen the movie, you should, It's great. 493 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 4: One more away, more comment, and then I promise after 494 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 4: the break we'll let you talk about some of your 495 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 4: wins suing the government, which are important. I saw the 496 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 4: former may so they want to get WEIMO in New 497 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 4: York City. That'd be a huge win for WEIMO obviously. 498 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 2: Yeah. 499 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 4: I saw the former mayor build A Blasio come out 500 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 4: and say, yesterday, WEIMO New York is not a town 501 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 4: for WEIMO. 502 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 2: We should not have them. 503 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 4: And uh, and I wonder if is that just to 504 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 4: protect all the jobs of Is that what that was? Oh? 505 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 8: Yes, it's It's exactly the same way about Uber. Back 506 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 8: in the day, if you remember they were, they were 507 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 8: very resistant to Uber because the tax they're the taxi drivers, 508 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 8: you know, unions and things like that. They don't want 509 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 8: the competition, and so it's the convenience thing to do 510 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 8: is use the government to exclude it legitimate competition in 511 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 8: order to raise your prizes and screw the consumer. And 512 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 8: that's been the recipe for centuries. And unfortunately Wemo and 513 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 8: other companies you know, face that that opposition. And it's 514 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 8: really just an attempt by people who don't want to 515 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 8: compete fairly to use the govern to block legitimate competitions 516 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 8: so that they can raise their prices at your expense. 517 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 8: It's the violation of individual liberty and it's economically foolish. 518 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 8: But New York has been that way first centuries. 519 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 4: Technology comes along eliminates another a lot of jobs, but 520 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 4: throughout history it's also created other different jobs. However, right, 521 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 4: I don't think that's going to continue with AI, do you? 522 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 8: Oh, I have no doubt that it will continue. Really 523 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 8: free time. Every time that technology has come along and oh, 524 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 8: they're taken our jobs. Every time that happens, it turns 525 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 8: out that it actually develops more jobs, not just you know, 526 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 8: people think, well, yeah, but these people become programmers. 527 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 2: No, it's not that. 528 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:44,159 Speaker 8: It's that new technology opens up new opportunities for economic growth. 529 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 8: That people could never have foreseen in the years before then, 530 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 8: you know the cell phone. When I remember when I 531 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 8: got my first iPhone years ago, nobody could ever have 532 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 8: imagined something like Uber Eats or door Dash at that time. 533 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 8: And now look at how many many people earn money 534 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 8: working for those companies thanks to smartphone technology. That these 535 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 8: new technologies open up vistas that nobody could possibly have imagined, 536 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 8: and people take advantage of that and the economy grows. 537 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 8: It's almost like creating something out of literally nothing. It's 538 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 8: it's amazing to see. So there's I have no doubt 539 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 8: that self driving technology will in the long run increase 540 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 8: employment opportunities and more importantly, increase wealth. And if it's 541 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 8: allowed to flourish, if the government doesn't get in the 542 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 8: way and create roadblocks. 543 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 4: I really really want you to be right about that 544 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 4: with AIS. 545 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 8: Well, historically speaking, I've been right about that in every 546 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 8: single time that a new technology has come about. With 547 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 8: the buggy whip makers, I'm sure they complained when the 548 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 8: automobile came along and nobody was hiring buying buggy whips anymore, 549 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 8: and they were saying, oh, our jobs are going to 550 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 8: go for overseas. We need to outlock cars so that 551 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 8: the union, the buggy whip Union, can can flourish. And 552 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 8: what about the workers, et cetera, et cetera. And here 553 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 8: we are living in a society where hardly anybody buys 554 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 8: buggy with and we have more employment and more opportunity, 555 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 8: and more wealth and more technologies than they did back then. 556 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 8: So I have no doubt that I'm right about this. 557 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 2: Oh God, I hope you are. 558 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: Jack Armstrong and Joe Gretty the Armstrong and Getty Show, 559 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: The Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty, The Armstrong and Getty Show. 560 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 9: The American Revolution is the most important offense since the 561 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 9: birth of Christ in all of world history. 562 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 4: Here I loved hearing that flipping on face. The nation 563 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 4: got back from vacation and they had Ken Burns, the 564 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 4: documentary filmmaker, the most famous documentary filmmaker who's ever lived, 565 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 4: on there to talk about his new documentary about the 566 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 4: American Revolution, which is coming out in November. But they 567 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,959 Speaker 4: interviewed him for Fourth of July weekend and him presenting 568 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 4: it in this is a fantastic thing that happened for 569 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 4: world history terms. It's just my whole life that was normal. 570 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 4: But after the last, you know, four or five years 571 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 4: of wokeness. It kind of was a little like knocked 572 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 4: me down. Whoa people still think this. 573 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 3: Well, I don't want to get off on this tangent 574 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 3: too much, but I find myself a little bit surprised, 575 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 3: as ken Burns has been a little howard zinish for 576 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 3: me in recent years. 577 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: But I'm glad to hear it. 578 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 3: Maybe he's just a canny businessman and he knows who's 579 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 3: going to watch these this documentary. 580 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 2: But I love what he said. I hate to be 581 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 2: that a cynical. Well, that makes you a sap. 582 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 3: Before we get into the more of the interview, Well, 583 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 3: I don't want to steal this thunder. 584 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: We'll do that first. Then I've got another great quote 585 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 2: that's a similar sort of sentiment. 586 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, we missed fourth of July with you while we 587 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 4: were gone on vacation, so we're catching up a little 588 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 4: on that sort of talk here. 589 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 2: And here's ken Burns talking about his documentary. 590 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 7: You called the revolutionary period a civil war? Is that 591 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 7: always your conception of the repe How did you come 592 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 7: to think about that way? 593 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 9: I think because there's no photographs and there's no newsreels, 594 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 9: and they're in stockings and breaches and powdered wigs. 595 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 2: There's a sense of distance from them. I think we 596 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 2: also are so. 597 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 9: Proud, rightfully of the power of the big ideas that 598 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 9: we just don't want to get into the fact that 599 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 9: it was this bloody civil war patriots against loyalists, disaffected people, 600 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 9: native people, enslaved and free people within it, foreign powers 601 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 9: that are ultimately engaged in. 602 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 2: This is a big world war by the end. 603 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 9: I think we perhaps are fearful that those big ideas 604 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,239 Speaker 9: are diminished, and they're not in any way. They're in 605 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 9: fact become even more inspiring that they emerge from the turmoil. 606 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 7: How should we think about the declaration of independence this 607 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 7: period in America in our present day. 608 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 9: First of all, I think the American Revolution is the 609 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 9: most important event since the birth of Christ in all 610 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 9: of world history. 611 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 2: I mean, it turned world. 612 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 9: Upside down, which is the cliche. Before this moment, everyone 613 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 9: was a subject, essentially under the rule of somebody else. 614 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 9: We had created in this moment a very brand new 615 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 9: thing called a citizen, and this has had powerful effects. 616 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 9: It's going to set in motion revolutions for the next 617 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 9: two plus centuries all around the world, all attempting to 618 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 9: sort of give a new expression to this idea that 619 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 9: all men are created equal, that they're endowed by their 620 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 9: creator with certain unalienable rights, and that's a big, big 621 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 9: deal in world history. 622 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, and hearing ken Burns say that and CBS, you know, 623 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 4: going along with it, it shouldn't be like cold water 624 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 4: being splashed in my face, but it was, and I 625 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 4: was happy to hear it. 626 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 3: I remember when, for a long time, the notion, again 627 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 3: the Howard Zinish down with American notion was it wasn't 628 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 3: a revolution. It was just a rebellion. I mean, the 629 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 3: colonists not happy with the crown, and they decided they 630 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 3: wanted a different government, and it came to blows. And no, 631 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 3: I mean it instituted on Earth an experiment in self 632 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 3: governance and a lot of other incredibly important fundamentals like 633 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 3: free speech that had not been tried. Yeah, it was 634 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 3: a rebellion against the crown, but in favor of trying 635 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 3: something wildly new, which is perhaps the most successful experiment 636 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 3: that's ever been done well. 637 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 4: And to take it further than that, the fact that 638 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 4: the sixteen nineteen Project ELM sway there for a couple 639 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 4: of years and unfortunately still does in your freaking schools, 640 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 4: your school's library. The idea that no, the revolution was 641 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 4: to found slavery and make sure we could keep the 642 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 4: whole slavery thing going. That was the point of the revolution, 643 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 4: and that was the prevailing view there for like a 644 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 4: year along. 645 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 3: To people with the megaphones of society, Yeah, education and media. 646 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 3: It's an I've seen a suggestion, absolutely obscene. You know, 647 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 3: I'm going to hit you with this real quickly from 648 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 3: Jonah Goldberg. Then we can get back to the interview. 649 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 3: Just don't want to steal all of us thunder. The 650 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 3: birth of the United States of America was not merely 651 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 3: the most important geopolitical event since the fall of Rome 652 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 3: or the most important intentional political event ever. Because Rome's 653 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 3: fall wasn't exactly a planned out exercise. It was the 654 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 3: signature catalyst for the real world realization of various Enlightenment 655 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 3: principles like democracy, human rights, free speech, and representative government. 656 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 3: The unfolding success of that experiment over the subsequent two 657 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 3: and a half centuries, with America becoming the single most 658 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,919 Speaker 3: influential and powerful country in the world, lends even more 659 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 3: weight to the momentousness of the American founding, and it 660 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 3: certainly ranks among the most consequential events in all of 661 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 3: human history, political and non political alike. 662 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 2: No doubt. 663 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 4: I mean to argue against that is well, it's crazy. 664 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:52,760 Speaker 2: You can't. 665 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 4: I hope it's over, but you can't look at enough 666 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 4: that period. We just came through it all. Oh, George 667 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 4: Floyd's sixteen nineteen project tearing down the statues, which I 668 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 4: saw some of in New York, all that sort of stuff. 669 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,240 Speaker 2: Just craziness. We lost our minds. Thank god that didn't 670 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 2: win the day. At the time, it felt like it 671 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 2: was gonna win the day, right right, And if you 672 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 2: were fighting against it, good for you. 673 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 4: And I'm so excited that Ken Burns thought, you know, 674 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 4: I'm gonna do a documentary about the American Revolution and 675 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,919 Speaker 4: present it as a good thing, like a great thing, 676 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 4: like one of the greatest things that ever happened to 677 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 4: human beings. 678 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 2: Right. 679 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 3: As I've said many, many times about religion and a 680 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 3: dozen other subjects, if you ask human beings to be 681 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 3: in charge of something, it's gonna get screwed up. 682 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 2: That's the way we are. 683 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 3: But that doesn't diminish the greatness, the wonder of the 684 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 3: founding of the country and the principles on which it 685 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 3: was founded. Yeah, human beings were in charge, so we 686 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 3: did a bad job of it. But it's still a 687 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 3: wondrous thing. 688 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 2: It's the Armstrong in Getty show. 689 00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,040 Speaker 5: Armstrong in Gdyrong. 690 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 2: And the conscients of the nation 691 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:05,800 Speaker 6: Are strong and Getty