WEBVTT - Red Sea Ship Attacks, Bill Gates Climate Warning & Bitcoin Tops $40k 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:04.760 Good morning. It's Monday, the fourth of December here in London. 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.039 This is the BlueBag Daybreak Here podcast. I'm Caroline Hepka and. 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.479 I'm Stephen Carroll. Coming up today, Iranian backed Hoothy Rebels 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:15.040 attack commercial ships in the Red Sea as Israel ramps 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:16.560 up its offensive in Gaza. 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:21.200 Bill Gates warns the world probably won't meet its climate goals, 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:26.400 as Bloomberg finds Banks green reporting lacks consistency. 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:30.840 Plus eight three hundred pounds worse off. Britain's economic stagnation 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.600 leaves households counting the cast, according to one new report. 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:38.320 Let's start with a roundup of our top stories. A 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.320 US Navy ship has responded to a florri of drone 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:45.320 and missile attacks against commercial ships operating in the Red Sea. 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:50.000 The destroyer USS Carney blamed Yemen's Hoothy Rebels for what 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:54.120 it said were four attacks against three separate vessels. Those 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.160 included an attack on the UK owned cargo ship, the 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:01.800 Unity Explorer, which caused minor damage which Retired US Marine 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:06.000 Colonel Steve Ganyard says that the Pentagon fears escalation. 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.039 The use is being very careful not to turn the 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.360 Red Sea into a shooting gallery who these continue to 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:14.920 target what they say are only Israeli ships, But the 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:17.080 US needs to be assured and the world needs to 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.800 be assured that there's freedom of navigation and that ships 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:23.080 could print it the heavily trafficked Red Sea. 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.040 Steve Ganyard, reflecting on the growing fears for the safety 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.160 of vessels in the busy shipping lane. Last month, the 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.160 rebels in Yemen issued a threat against ships with ties 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.039 to Israel in the area, calling them quote legitimate targets. 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:41.280 The regional escalation comes as Israel's military expands its operations 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.360 against Hamas. Days after a week long truce came to 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:47.640 an abrupt end. The Israeli military is now warning many 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.360 of the territory's two point two million residents to evacuate 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:54.560 parts of southern Gaza as it ramps up airstrikes on 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:58.920 the territory. He bit TV from the aid organization Care International. 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.720 The winter is already in Gaza. People left without proper clothing. 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.360 Most of them they already sleep outdoor in the overcrowded churches, 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.240 and now with this new evacuation, many of them say, 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:13.200 we know we need to evacuate, but we don't know 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.480 where to go with a new order. 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.080 That warning from one AID agency comes as John Kirby, 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.680 spokesman for the US National Security Council, said Israel had 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.480 taken steps to minimize civilian casualties. 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.040 We've urged them to as they go south, We've said, 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.400 we've said publicly, we don't want to see them move 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:34.880 into the south unlesser until they have accounted for that 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.200 additional now civilian population, because they move folks out of 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.320 the north and the South, hundreds of thousands of them, 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:42.280 we want to make sure that they're properly accounted for. 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.800 And again them publishing this map online and dropping leaflets 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.359 and informing people of where not to go. I mean 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:49.760 that is a step in the right direction. 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.600 That's John Kirby speaking the hamaser On Health Ministry in Gaza, 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.440 says more than fifteen thoy five hundred people have been 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:00.480 killed since the conflict began eight weeks ago. Israel around 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.600 four hundred of its soldiers and fifty nine police personnel 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:07.600 have been killed since the deadly seventh of October attack. 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.560 And now two stays around climate change, Bill Gates sees 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:15.959 a hotter world, failing to stop temperatures from rising even higher. 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.320 Once the world's richest man, Gates has devoted large sums 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.639 of money to fighting climate change. At this year's cop summit, 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.760 he told Bloomberg humanity will miss global warming targets that 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.160 were set at the twenty fifteen Paris Agreement. 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:35.520 No, we won't hit the aspirational targets. Well, you can 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.080 do the mouth on one point five. 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:43.240 And even two point zero. Isn't that likely. 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.760 Gates is still optimistic that the world can avoid becoming 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.760 three degrees celsius warmer than the pre industrial era, but 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.960 scientists point to this is extreme weather as an omen 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.280 of the damage that climate change is causing. 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.320 Bitcoin has hed a nineteen month high of more than 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:04.880 forty one thousand dollars. The cryptocurrency's stellar performance comes after 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.160 a turbulent period for the token in the wake of 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:11.480 ftx as collapse. Lucy Gasmararian is the managing partner and 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:15.200 founder at Token Bay Capital. She explains why she sees 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:16.160 bitcoin surging. 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.039 You know, there's a combination of factors going on here. 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.920 I'd say, you know, expectations that interest rates are potentially 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:26.440 going to you know, start coming down next year, and 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:28.719 then the big thing in the sort of crypto circles 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.560 is that the bitcoin harving that's coming up, where the 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.960 rewards for miners that are mining bitcoin transactions gets cut 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:37.880 in half so you get a supply shot. 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.720 Lucy Gasmararian speaking there, Bitcoin is jumped by more than 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.839 one hundred and fifty percent this year to outstrip other 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:46.760 investments like stocks and gold. 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.680 UK households are now roughly eight thousand pounds poorer than 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:54.919 those in France and Germany, according to a major new report. 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.080 Two think tanks behind it so that Britain is in 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.560 fifteen years of stagnation and has called the government's economic 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:05.680 plan quote not serious. Bloomberg's James Worcock has the story. 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:09.719 The Resolution Foundation and the Center for Economic Performance say 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:13.320 the UK might have had its own lost decade of growth. 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.440 The two top think tanks say Britain's earn less and 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:20.080 are now less productive than rival countries, but despite their 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.080 major new report calling for more investment and funding for 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:27.640 public services, taxes are at a postwar high. Labour leader 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.640 Kissed Armer praised Margaret Thatcher over the weekend and says 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:34.479 his party won't turn on spending taps if elected in London. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:36.560 James Wilcock, Bloomberg Radio. 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.240 And the Chinese developer Evergrant has won a reprieve in 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.840 a restructuring agreement with creditors. Bloomberg's Brian Curtis has more 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:44.600 from Hong Kong. 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:48.200 This buys some time Forevergrand and its creditors to do 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.880 a deal. Hong Kong Court has earned a winding up 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:55.080 proceeding until January twenty ninth. The unexpected delay came as 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.400 the original petitioner did not push for an immediate liquidation. 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:01.720 Bloomberg has report or did that offshore creditors want a 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:05.200 controlling interest in Evergrand and its two Hong Kong units. 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.880 The builder has offered them a minority stake. Expect a 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.120 lot of back and forth now over the next eight 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.919 weeks in Hong Kong. Brian Curtis, Bloomberg Radio. 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.279 Now in a moment, we'll be discussing fears of greenwashing 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.360 and sustainable investment goals for banks. But the story that 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.719 caught Maya this morning from COP twenty eight. Obviously, we've 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.440 been talking about a lot of the big conversations happening there, 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.600 the global agreements to try and tackle renewables, But an 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.560 idea from a Russian billionaire to look at how the 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:38.360 tundra ecosystem in Siberia could be maintained to stop the 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:43.720 release of methane emissions from the thawing permafrost there as well. 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.560 His idea is to recreate a time when Woolly Mammetz 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:51.600 wrote roam to the tundra. This is something that we're 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.600 trying to see. He's demonstrating with the sort of digital 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:57.760 illustration of what it would look like if I sage 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:04.919 animals were wandering the tundra in Siberia. But that's yes. 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:09.520 Is that serious or is this the sort of because look, 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.560 coming with COP twenty eight, all sorts of ideas and 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.360 a bit of a kind of trade show. Feel basically 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.120 on the side of COP twenty eight, a lot of 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:22.120 businesses come to kind of talk about all of the 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.680 climate change issues. I mean, I suppose there's a there's 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:26.440 been a lot of criticism that is being held in 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:30.400 a petro state effectively, and so one wonder is that 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:31.760 is that a serious proposition? 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:32.080 Yeah? 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.200 I mean, look, you're not alone and thinking that. Robert Savans, 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:38.080 is a Harvard University professor of environmental economics, says you 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:40.520 could think of this as more of a circus where 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.400 the main event is sometimes eclipsed by the prominence of 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:47.440 trade shows as well. It is something it's I think 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:49.280 it's not quite mammots that we're looking at as well, 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:51.120 but it is the idea of trying to restore what 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:54.200 the ecosystem was at the time of the mammoths, to 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.560 be able to try and contain and stop essentially the 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.920 permafrast melting at the rate that it is because of 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.400 the risk of releasing more methane, which is actually more 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:04.800 damaging to the climate than other greenhouse gas missions. 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.840 Yea, absolutely, but the major challenge that you're trying to 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.400 deal with climate change and what that means. Continued coverage 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.400 then on the program this morning of the COP twenty 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:16.720 eighth summit, which obviously is on for a whole fortnite. 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.520 Let's go next though, to the Middle East, where Israel's 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.880 military is expanding operations across Gaza, while a US Navy 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.960 ship has responded to drone and missile attacks against commercial 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.600 ships in the Red Sea. We've got Bloomberg senior reporter 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.600 Anthony's cuisine with us in Tel Aviv this morning. Anthony, 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:36.280 let's start with what's been happening in Gaza. The Israeli 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:39.360 military offensive targeting the south of Gaza. What more can 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:39.880 you tell us? 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.000 Okay, Well, obviously it's a pretty intense campaign. We just 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:48.960 had news that the IDF says it hit about two 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:53.760 hundred targets overnight, So a lot of air strikes and 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:59.000 other ordinance, all in a very crowded area where most 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.800 of Gaza two point two million people are now hold up. 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.880 It's a very difficult situation because Israel has come under 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:11.760 intense criticism for the number of civilian casualties in its 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.920 campaign in northern Gaza in recent weeks before the Truth 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.600 and now it's proceeding into southern Gaza. And while it 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:22.480 has set up a safe zone and has been putting 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:24.960 a map online and dropping leaflets to tell people where 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:29.959 to go, AID agencies and Gazans themselves are saying they 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.160 don't know what's going on and where to go, and 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.200 they feel they've got nowhere left to go. 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.560 So how what is the response then, when the likes 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:41.600 of the US Vice President Kamala Harris are warning Israel 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:46.120 about civilian casualties in Gaza? How significant is it? A 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.440 change in tone from the Biden administration. 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:55.439 Absolutely, the Biden administration officials have become more strident over 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:59.559 the last few weeks in cautioning Israel to be exercisemare 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.280 caution to try and limit the number of civilian casualties. 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:04.200 They're coming under a lot of. 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.640 Pressure at home and also from the international community about 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.240 the death toll, which local authorities in Gaza put at 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.319 more than fifteen thousand, five hundred, many of those children. 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:18.720 But at the same time, the US has said it 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:23.120 supports Israel's broad aims in the war of destroying Hamas 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:27.199 and retrieving its hostages, which still stand at one hundred 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:27.839 and thirty seven. 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.640 And you we're also monitoring events in the Red Sea too, 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:35.800 after we had that firing by US Navy ship intervening 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:40.440 because of fire from Hooty rebels and Yemen. How series 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:42.640 is an escalation of the events that we've seen in 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:43.200 the Red Sea. 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:48.720 Well, certainly yesterday was the most most intense activity we've 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.880 seen since the conflict began in October seven. The hoofi's 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.480 head said that they would target Israeli in ships, and 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:56.640 there've been a couple of instances so far, but yesterday 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:58.360 there was a lot of activity, with three or four 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:03.120 vessels targeted. None of them were badly damaged. But the 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.280 US naval did have to fire on drawings and perhaps missiles, 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:08.640 and definitely it's an escalation of. 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.920 Sorts, okay. And so in terms of what it means 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:15.600 in a widening of the conflict in the Middle East, 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:20.920 how much concern is there around that, I don't think. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:23.000 I don't think we should overplay it. I don't think 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:24.840 it means that there as you know, there's going to 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:26.920 be new players dread into this conflict. But what it 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.800 does mean is that one of the world's most important 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:37.360 passageways for ship traffic is increasingly perilous, and that threatens 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.160 the world trade and the global economy. 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:40.800 So it's it's a pretty big deal. 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.320 Okay, Anthony, thank you very much for bringing u up 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:46.480 today with the latest developments there. That's our senior reporters 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.000 Anthony's cuisine joining us from Tel Aviv this morning. 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.280 Now let's go back to the story around COP twenty 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.080 eight in the Climate talks. Is the world's biggest banks 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.760 are heading to Dubai for what is Climate Day today? 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.760 Industry Insight does there are raising questions about the sustainable 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.240 finance achievements that banks have made amid concerns that they 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.600 are overstating their impact. Joining us for more on this 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:11.960 is our markets reporter Greg Ritchie. I good to have 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.360 you back on radio. What is it that banks are 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:16.600 doing that is now facing so much scrutiny? 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:17.840 Thanks for having me. 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:18.200 So. 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.000 The background of this is that all pretty much every 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.600 single major global bank has set as sustainable finance targets. 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.040 So that's why they commit to say we're raising one 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.840 trillion dollars of sustainable finance by twenty thirty, and they 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.760 often publicize that by saying this year we raise two 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.199 hundred and fifty billion dollars towards our targets. The issue 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.520 is that nobody has really defined sustainable finance in a 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.560 coherent way that is the same across all banks. So 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.160 some banks count deals that other banks wouldn't sustainable finance. 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.800 That makes these figures completely uncomparable and very difficult to navigate. 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:54.320 Does this put in peril the whole idea then, of ESG. 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.360 If we can't define it, it makes it much more 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:57.199 difficult to track. 0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.680 I think you're right to highlight that there's obviously been 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.040 a lot of anti ESG rhetoric, particularly in the US, 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.840 and even skepticism in other parts of the world. I 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:08.200 think banks are operating in a vacuum right now where 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.520 there isn't a regulatory definition of what is sustainable finance investments, 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:13.839 and therefore they have to make up their own definitions. 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.160 And I think if you're seeing some banks push the 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.040 envelope a little bit in a way that is a 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.839 little bit dubious, that's going to only add to the skepticism. 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:23.200 Yeah, what have a few of the examples that you've 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:27.600 turned up about what the different definitions in sustainable finance mean. 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.560 What are some of the examples that you've got. 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.560 So, I think one key example is M and A. 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.480 It's obviously M and A deals are massive. They can 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.040 go into the tens of billions of dollars, whereas some 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.400 banks counting M and A transactions as being sustainable finance 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.600 and other banks that are not. And you can quickly 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:48.960 imagine that if one bank doesn't, one bang doesn't, that 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.599 quickly skews their figures. So when it comes down to 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.199 things like that, that can completely change the understanding. Do 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.320 you also have very niche products like ESG derivatives, lots 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.720 of banks don't touch them, don't think they're sustainable finance. 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.199 Other banks count them towards their targets very quickly. You 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:04.959 can see the inconsistencies add up. 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:09.040 So how then can investors and consumers who want to 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.360 know where the money is going, how a particular bank 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.120 is behaving, How can they actually assess that? 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:17.880 It's very difficult for them, and that is the problem. 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.240 I'm speaking to a lot of researchers who are specializing 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.360 on this, and they struggle to navigate this through all 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.880 the disclosures, for all the small prints. So if your 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.120 consumer and want to know of your bank is actively 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.960 contributing towards the climate transition, you can speak to experts, 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.440 you can read news articles about them, but it's very 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.080 difficult to find a single number that will tell you 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:37.640 this bank is better than this bank. 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.680 Okay, regulators looking into this now, then. 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.000 They are, I think the Financial Conduct Authority in the 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.040 UK they wrote led it to the banks heads of 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.120 VSG earlier this year and they raised a number of concerns. 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.440 One of them was the fact that lots of bankers 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.600 their remuneration, their bonuses are set to the meeting of 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.240 these targets, and that creates potential conflicts of interests. You 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.120 can imagine that if you're banker and you want to 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.280 achieve your bonus, you might be pressured to slap the 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.120 sustainable label on a product that baby doesn't meet the 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.840 grades in order to help you meet that bonus. So 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:11.680 they started to think about it and think it might 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.280 seem more formal regulatory intervention in the coming years. 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:17.240 Are the banks themselves worried about being accused of greenwashing? 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:18.080 Definitely. 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:19.800 So I speak to quite a few of the heads 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.560 of ESG for the story, and one thing that they 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.880 keep on telling us is how courses they're becoming. You know, 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:27.960 maybe two years ago they would have put a label 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.480 on something that they wouldn't do. Now that's because of 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.200 the increased scrutiny, and many of them think that next year, 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:37.240 as last laps up, that they're going to face many 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.360 different green washing risks that they need to navigate. 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.600 Okay, it's a really interesting piece, great research. Greg, thank 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:44.840 you so much for joining us and talking us through 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.400 that story around green financing. And the biggest banks in 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.920 the world are Greg Ritchie. They're our markets reporter. 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:53.760 Now, Bill Gates says the world probably won't meet the 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.040 Paris Agreement's goal of keeping the rise in global temperatures 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.920 to one and a half degrees. However, the Microsoft co 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.240 friend or praise the COP twenty eight summitch for making 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:07.600 progress untackling climate change despite geopolitical tensions. Okay. When speaking 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.880 to Bloomberg's Francine Laquat in Dubai, she asked him how 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.120 he measures success in this field. 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.200 I'm optimistic in general. 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.680 A lot of the power of human innovation is showing 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:22.480 here and in all the work I do. 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:24.160 What does that mean? 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.200 Does that mean that you measure success as in pledges? 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.040 Do we measure success as trying to do better and 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:33.560 putting more money where it should be. 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:37.120 Well, in the end, it's all about the human condition. 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:43.680 You know, more people are living longer. You know, we've 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.680 cut childhood death and half claimate is this negative thing 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:53.400 that's slowing down that progress? And so in mitigation, you know, 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.080 we want to make sure the temperature doesn't get too high, 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:58.640 and then an adaptation, we want to make sure that 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:03.440 the ill effects that whatever we can't mitigate, that it 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:08.800 doesn't reverse this incredible rate of human improvement. 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:09.679 But what are you. 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.880 Most optimistic about? Is it business or is it actually 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:14.520 leaders coming together with pledges? 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:15.960 Well? 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:22.080 Climate change overall, it's a challenge to the world. Hydrocarbons 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:27.679 have been very cheap. Our economy is built around you know, coal, 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:33.119 gas oil, and so we have to make this change. 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:39.520 The progression of inventing new approaches green approaches, and then 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.560 implementing them and over time scaling them and getting them 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:48.200 so cheap what I call zero green premium. You first 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.000 have to have risk capital. Then you have to have 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:55.680 bigger amounts capital, eventually as they say, trillions of dollars 0:17:56.119 --> 0:18:00.080 to get every country to replace its steel plants, a 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:05.000 cement plans, and so depending on the emissions area. Some 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.760 of these things like steel and cement were at the 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.160 very early stage. Some like electric cars at least at 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:15.920 the high end the green premium you could say zero, 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.080 not for low cost cars where you park on the street. 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:25.480 But you so all these things and the faster we go, 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.160 the less temperature increase. 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:29.760 We'll see. 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.199 But do you think we're going fast enough to actually 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.760 hit the targets that were set out in the Paaris agreement. 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:39.640 No, we won't hit hit no to aspirational targets. Well, 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:44.520 you can do the math on one point five and 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.680 even two point zero. Isn't that likely? 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:49.040 Now? 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:53.040 Fortunately, if you stay below three, a lot of the 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:56.639 ill effects that people have heard about don't happen unless 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.399 you really are irresponsible and let it get up to 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:01.160 the the higher range. 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:06.080 Where do you see the role of fossil fuels going forward, Well. 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.359 We have to outcompete fossil fuels. Now. 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.840 To do that properly, they you know, they shouldn't get subsidies, 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.879 and in fact, a carbon tax over time should be 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.639 put on so that the new you know, say the 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:24.600 electric car or the plane that use hydrogen, the fact 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:29.520 that it doesn't emit carbon, you're helping it get adoption. 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.760 Those companies have skills, you know, if you want to 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:37.439 sequester carbon or you know, nuclear wayte or there's a 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.880 lot of skills if you want to make biofuels. 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:41.280 Uh. 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:43.000 You know, some of those. 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.600 Companies will take the capital and skills they have. 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:46.479 Uh. 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.639 You know, so I wouldn't you know, say okay, I 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:53.359 wish they weren't there. You know, people still, you know, 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:57.160 there's no country that can say, okay, we have zero emissions. 0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.920 Uh. You know, people want to drive to work. 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:00.479 You know. 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:05.320 In fact, the excess supply when Russia cut off its 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.360 supply in the world was sort of glad that that 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.919 was available, and so, yes, oil and gas needs to 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:19.320 be out competed, and those companies need to join the effort. 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:21.600 I know you look at a lot of technologies and 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:23.560 a lot of innovation, But is there one thing that 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.960 you've been most excited about in the past five years 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:29.359 or that you're most excited about for the future. I 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:31.160 know we talked about nuclear fuel. I mean we talk 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.639 a lot about the really big, you know, exciting stuff. 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:35.840 What are you excited about? 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.359 Well, you know, I love all my children, and I 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.600 have these one hundred companies, and you know, I never 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:47.080 knew that we'd get a new way to make steel 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:51.040 or cement or beef. It's fair to say that if 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:55.560 we can get either nuclear fission or fusion to be 0:20:56.560 --> 0:21:02.240 safe and broadly accepted and very economic because it's not 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:06.360 whether dependent, it would be very complementary to the large 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.600 amount of solar and wind that we're putting into our 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:10.600 electric system. 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:12.760 And so I'm biased. 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:16.640 I'm a huge investor in both fission and fusion and 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:21.480 hoping that it comes in time. We can't count on it, 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.639 you know, fission it has been too expensive, and fusion 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.160 doesn't exist yet. 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:31.679 But Fusion fifteen years from now, like what's your I 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:32.879 know it's a guess. At the moment. 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:37.880 Well, of the four companies I'm invested in, one of them, 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.919 Commonwealth Fusion has a credible path. Things will have to 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:45.199