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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where it's beginning

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Speaker 1: to look a lot like Christmas, and not just because

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Speaker 1: we're shoveling our way out of several inches of snow.

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Speaker 1: It's Monday, December first, and on today's show, we'll be

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Speaker 1: chatting with chief marketing and public relations officer for Ally Financial,

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Speaker 1: Andrea Brimmer. We sat down during NWSL Championship weekend to

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Speaker 1: talk about the company's groundbreaking fifty to fifty pledge to

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Speaker 1: reach equal spend in media across men's and women's sports,

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Speaker 1: and why folks need to see ROI.

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Speaker 2: Differently in the two spaces.

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Speaker 1: Her favorite I Told you So moments, her decision to

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Speaker 1: sponsor the NWSL Players Association after players came forward reporting

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Speaker 1: toxic environments and abuse, and why Ally leaned into its

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Speaker 1: sponsorship of the NWSL in its darkest moment instead of

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Speaker 1: abandoning it. This is a fascinating and super smart combo.

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Speaker 2: I think you're going to love it.

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Speaker 1: Plus a hoops lifer breaks her own record, Nebraska finishes perfect,

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Speaker 1: and a holiday weekend heartbreaker for one Olympic hopeful. It's

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Speaker 1: all coming up right after this Welcome back slices. Hope

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Speaker 1: you had a great long holiday weekend.

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Speaker 2: Here's what you need to know today.

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Speaker 1: We'll start in the WNBA, where there's no new CBA

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Speaker 1: as of this recording Sunday night, assuming no last minute

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Speaker 1: deals were done by eleven fifty nine pm Eastern, than

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Speaker 1: the extended deadline for negotiations between the players Association and

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Speaker 1: the league on a new collective bargaining agreement has again expired.

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Speaker 1: A couple things could happen now, another agreed upon extension

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Speaker 1: for negotiations to continue, or a quote unquote status quo

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Speaker 1: period during which the league in the PA maintained the

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Speaker 1: working conditions of the current CBA, allowing players to receive

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Speaker 1: medical benefits, used team facilities, and more while both sides

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Speaker 1: continue negotiating despite not agreeing to another extension, or a

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Speaker 1: workstoppage that could be initiated either by a player strike

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Speaker 1: or an owner lockout.

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Speaker 2: And negotiations for the last.

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Speaker 1: WNBACBA required two extensions, so it wouldn't be unprecedented for

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Speaker 1: the league in the PA to announce another one. But

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Speaker 1: the longer the talks take, the more disruption there is

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Speaker 1: to this year's busy offseason, which includes an expansion draft

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Speaker 1: for the Toronto Tempo and Portland Fire, and free agency

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Speaker 1: signings for almost every single vet in the league. We'll

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Speaker 1: keep you updated as news comes in, and while we're waiting,

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Speaker 1: you can check out a great article on fair dot

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Speaker 1: org about the often sexist coverage that the CBA negotiations

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Speaker 1: are getting from the sports media.

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Speaker 2: We'll link to the piece.

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Speaker 1: Sports press covers WNBA negotiations from owner's point of view

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Speaker 1: in the show notes to college hoops and a new

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Speaker 1: record with a pretty incredible twist.

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Speaker 2: Number five.

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Speaker 1: LSU, led by head coach Kim Maulkey, set a new

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Speaker 1: NCAA record on Friday with its seventh consecutive one hundred

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Speaker 1: plus point game, a one thirteen to fifty three rout

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Speaker 1: of Merist in the Paradise Jam Tournament on the University

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Speaker 1: of Virgin Islands campus. The previous record of six straight

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Speaker 1: one hundred plus point games was set by the nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty two Louisiana Tech squad led by point guard Kim Malke.

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Speaker 2: That's right, she broke her own record.

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Speaker 1: On Saturday at the Tigers extended their streak to eight

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Speaker 1: straight with a remarkable one twelve to thirty five drubbing

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Speaker 1: of Washington State in the championship game of the tournament's

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Speaker 1: Reef Division. The seventy seven point margin of victory is

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Speaker 1: the largest on the road in program history and the

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Speaker 1: fourth largest all time. LSU is now eight to no,

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Speaker 1: but they haven't yet faced a ranked team, and based

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Speaker 1: on current rankings, they wouldn't until January first. Also this weekend,

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Speaker 1: Number four Texas beat number three UCLA seventy six sixty

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Speaker 1: five on Wednesday, then upset number two South Carolina sixty

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Speaker 1: six sixty four on a rory harmon last second shot

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Speaker 1: on Thanksgiving Thursday. Jordan Lee and Madison Booker led the

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Speaker 1: way for the Longhorns with nineteen and sixteen points respectively

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Speaker 1: in that one. On Sunday, Audie Crooks made nineteen of

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Speaker 1: twenty five field goal attempts for a career high forty

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Speaker 1: seven points to lead Number ten Iowa State past Indiana

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Speaker 1: one oh six ninety five. Indiana shay Chesky had thirty

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Speaker 1: eight points in the loss. Later on Sunday, a matchup

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Speaker 1: of two top fifteen teams, as number three UCLA defeated

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Speaker 1: number fourteen ten Tennesseee ninety nine seventy seven. Gabriella Hakez

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Speaker 1: had twenty nine points to lead the Bruins. Kiki Rice

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Speaker 1: added twenty points and eleven boards to college soccer. Unranked

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Speaker 1: Ohio State saw their Cinderella run end in the Elite

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Speaker 1: eight of the NCAA Tournament this weekend, falling to number

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Speaker 1: three Florida State four to one. On Friday, the Seminoles

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Speaker 1: advanced to take on number two TCU, who beat number

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Speaker 1: one seed North Carolina in a thriller. Unc was up

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Speaker 1: one nil with just six seconds to play when the

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Speaker 1: horn Frogs Cammeden Fuller even things up to force overtime.

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Speaker 1: After a scoreless extra session, TCU earned a four to

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Speaker 1: three advantage on penalty kicks to book their trip to

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Speaker 1: the Final four. On the other side of the bracket,

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Speaker 1: number one Stanford routed two seed Michigan five to one.

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Speaker 1: They'll meet number two Duke WU bested three seed Kansas

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Speaker 1: two nil. Both final four contests will be on Friday

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Speaker 1: to College Vibes, where the country's best team, Nebraska finished

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Speaker 1: off an unbeaten regular season with a sweep of Ohio

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Speaker 1: State in front of nearly eighty five five hundred people

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Speaker 1: at John Cook Arena Saturday night. It's the third unbeaten

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Speaker 1: regular season in Nebraska program history. They dropped just seven

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Speaker 1: sets all season, just one in Big Ten play. They'll

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Speaker 1: try to become just the sixth team in history to

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Speaker 1: finish a regular season undefeated and win a national title.

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Speaker 1: We're recording this before Sunday night's NCAA Women's Volleyball Tournament

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Speaker 1: selection show, so we'll chat about the bracket in tomorrow show.

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Speaker 1: To the US women's national soccer team and their three

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Speaker 1: nail defeat of Italy and a friendly Friday night in Orlando,

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Speaker 1: Olivia Moultrie tally in the second minute of the contest

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Speaker 1: and Katerina Macario earned a brace, scoring in the sixty

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Speaker 1: fourth and seventy sixth minutes. Macario's goals were her sixth

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Speaker 1: and seventh on the year, making her Team USA's goal

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Speaker 1: scoring leader in twenty twenty five. Chicago Stars forward Jimmy's

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Speaker 1: Joseph and Washington Spirit defender Kate Weisner both subed on

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Speaker 1: in the match to make their international debuts. Fridays was

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Speaker 1: the first meeting between Team USA and Italy in fifteen years.

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Speaker 2: They'll meet again in Fort Lauderdale tonight.

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Speaker 1: That's a seven pm Eastern kickoff on TBS and HBO

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Speaker 1: max to Skiing, and a sad update on our favorite

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Speaker 1: trio of Olympic hopefuls friends of the show, the Massuga Sisters.

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Speaker 1: Sister Lauren Massuga will miss the rest of the season,

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Speaker 1: including the Milan Courtina Olympics, after tearing her right acl

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Speaker 1: Friday morning during training for the World Cup in Copper Mountain, Colorado.

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Speaker 1: Missuga finished last season as the top American in both

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Speaker 1: downhill and super g and was expected to be a

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Speaker 1: top medal contender in Italy. Meantime, on Sunday, Masuga's teammate

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Speaker 1: Mikayla Schiffrin won her third straight World Cup slalom race

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Speaker 1: to start this Olympic season. It's a record extending one

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Speaker 1: hundred fourth overall Alpine World Cup race win, sixty seven

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Speaker 1: of them in slalom.

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Speaker 2: The win on home.

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Speaker 1: Colorado snow also qualifies Schiffrin for her fourth Olympics to

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Speaker 1: the PWHL, where the two time defending walter Cup champion

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Speaker 1: Minnesota Frost spoiled the inaugural home opener for the expansion team,

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Speaker 1: the Seattle Torrent with a three nothn win at Climate

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Speaker 1: Pledge Arena Friday night, a new the US record crowd

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Speaker 1: of over sixteen thousand people watched as Minnesota's Kelly Panic

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Speaker 1: scored twice and Nicole Hensley pitched a thirty save shutout

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Speaker 1: to lead the Frost to the win. Elsewhere in the league,

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Speaker 1: Ottawa Charge head coach Carla McLeod, also head coach for

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Speaker 1: the CHECKI and national team, has revealed the statement that

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Speaker 1: she was recently diagnosed with breast cancer. Wrote McLeod in part, quote,

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Speaker 1: I'm incredibly fortunate to have an exceptional medical team guiding me,

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Speaker 1: and together we've built a treatment plan that gives me

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Speaker 1: tremendous confidence in the road ahead. There are still some

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Speaker 1: variables to be determined as we move forward, but my goal,

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Speaker 1: without question is to be behind the bench as often

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Speaker 1: as possible. McLeod went on quote, my medical team assured

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Speaker 1: me that my treatment should have minimal impact on being

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Speaker 1: present for the Charge season, and that I'll still be

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Speaker 1: able to coach check you at the Olympic Winter Games

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Speaker 1: in February.

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Speaker 2: End quote.

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Speaker 1: We're definitely wishing coach McLeod the best slices real quick.

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Speaker 1: While we're on the topic of mcclod's news, I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to share a sort of personal update just in

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Speaker 1: case it might help someone out there, And if you

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Speaker 1: followed me on social you probably already saw this, but

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Speaker 1: I haven't mentioned it on the show yet. So over

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Speaker 1: the summer, I had an abnormal mammogram, followed by an

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Speaker 1: ultrasound that still showed some abnormal cells, followed by a

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Speaker 1: biopsy that revealed ADH cells, which are a typical ductyal hyperplasia.

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Speaker 1: Now these are non cancerous cells, but they are atypical

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Speaker 1: and abnormal, and they increase your likelihood of getting breast cancer.

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Speaker 1: So a couple weeks ago I went in and had

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Speaker 1: to get a lump back to me. The surgery went well,

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Speaker 1: no further ADH or cancer was found. All good news there.

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Speaker 2: I still have to figure out if I want to

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Speaker 2: take medication for a couple of years going forward.

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Speaker 1: If anyone has had experience with demoxifen or otherwise, feel

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Speaker 1: free to reach out and help me make that decision

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Speaker 1: and figure out the next steps. But I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to share this because it was interesting. Several times during

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Speaker 1: this month's long process, I was actually recording our special

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Speaker 1: Novartist series of shows and ended up talking to several

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Speaker 1: breast cancer survivors.

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Speaker 2: You might remember that, and that.

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Speaker 1: Made things both scary because it was really real, and

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Speaker 1: also gave me a lot of whole because I was

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Speaker 1: talking to folks about their treatments and their recoveries. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I'm sharing this because I just want to remind y'all

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Speaker 1: to get your mammograms.

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Speaker 2: I know a lot of people who put it off.

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Speaker 1: I know a lot of people who think it hurts,

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Speaker 1: it's not comfortable, but it's really not that bad, and

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Speaker 1: you really need to do that because you need to

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Speaker 1: find out what kind of breasts you have. Do you

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Speaker 1: have dense breasts, in which case you might need ultrasounds

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Speaker 1: or MRIs instead of just regular mammograms, And surprisingly, you

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Speaker 1: often have to ask for that yourself. Unfortunately, there is

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Speaker 1: a level of self advocacy that's necessary when it comes

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Speaker 1: to breast cancer. A lot of things are more expensive

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Speaker 1: for hospitals or insurance, so if you don't know that

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Speaker 1: you need them and to ask for them, they aren't

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Speaker 1: always going to volunteer that.

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Speaker 2: So please do your research.

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Speaker 1: And all my slices with tatas be sure to get

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Speaker 1: them checked.

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Speaker 2: All right, We're going to take a quick break. When

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Speaker 2: me come back, it's Andrea Brimmer joining us now.

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Speaker 1: She's the Chief Marketing and public Relations officer for Ally Financial.

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Speaker 2: Since becoming CMO in twenty.

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Speaker 1: Fifteen, she's helped put Ally on the fast come any

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Speaker 1: brands that matter Less for three consecutive years. Was a

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four Forbes CMO Hall of Fame inductee and

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Speaker 1: is a five time honoree on the Forbes list of

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Speaker 1: world's Most Influential cmos, a twenty twenty four Sports Business

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Speaker 1: Journal Game Changer, twenty twenty two ad Week Most Powerful

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Speaker 1: Woman in Sports, and the twenty twenty two Wise Woman

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Speaker 1: of the Year. She was a soccer player at Michigan State.

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Speaker 1: She's a pity mama and she has some human children too.

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Speaker 2: It's Andrea Brimmer.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Andrea pitty Mama. That's my favorite part of the

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Speaker 3: entire introduction there.

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Speaker 1: I am a pity me too, and I can tell

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Speaker 1: by your Instagram that you're as obsessed as obsessed.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I love that dog more Queen any thing

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Speaker 3: in the world. Queen is a queen, the Queen. I

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Speaker 3: actually just got a tattoo for her too, my Queen.

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Speaker 2: So oh my gosh.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I've I've memoralized her.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I have three dogs and most of my Instagram

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Speaker 1: would be pictures of them if I didn't have to

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Speaker 1: post every show every day.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's great to see you, Thanks for coming on.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to chat because I want to get

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Speaker 1: to this game changing work that you're doing in the

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Speaker 1: women's sports race.

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Speaker 2: But I kind of want to know how you got.

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Speaker 1: There, and I want to know your first exposure to

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Speaker 1: women's sports as a fan.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember seeing.

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Speaker 4: It, whether it was small scale or on a big scale.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that it like hit.

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Speaker 3: You absolutely, you know. I mean for me, honestly, it

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Speaker 3: was through soccer, and I played since I was a

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Speaker 3: little kid. I started playing in the YMCA League when

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Speaker 3: I was very young, and I just fell in love

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Speaker 3: with the national team, you know, and the players of

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Speaker 3: the national team. And that was really my first not

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Speaker 3: when I was young, because there was no yet national

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Speaker 3: team when I was young, but the women's national team

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Speaker 3: and the Julie Foudis of the world, the ninety nine ers.

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Speaker 3: That was when I really really really fell in love

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Speaker 3: with women's sports from a fandom standpoint. You know, as

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Speaker 3: a participant in playing, you don't really think about fandom,

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Speaker 3: and then when you can't play anymore and you fall

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Speaker 3: in love with watching other people play it. You know

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Speaker 3: that for me was it so having those people in

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Speaker 3: my orbit now has been pinched me moment for sure.

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Speaker 1: Well, do you remember, you know, a pivot point in

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Speaker 1: your career when women's sports hit you over the head

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Speaker 1: and you were like, oh, this is something to invest

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Speaker 1: in as opposed to just see as aspirational or.

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Speaker 3: Inspirational, you know, I mean I think for me first,

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Speaker 3: like early lesson in life, even before I was in

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Speaker 3: my career. You mentioned Michigan State, which, by the way,

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Speaker 3: my girls won last night. They're going to Sweet sixteen.

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Speaker 3: Go ladies, Go Sparti. You know, I played on the

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Speaker 3: first ever varsity women's soccer team at Michigan State. And

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Speaker 3: that's when the Big Ten was actually ten schools, you know,

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Speaker 3: not however many it is now. And we were only

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Speaker 3: the second team in the Big Ten to have a

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Speaker 3: varsity program, and so we used to go to the

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Speaker 3: other eight schools and we would play exhibition matches on

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Speaker 3: our own time, and we would help them petition their

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Speaker 3: athletic boards to get varsity status. And so I just

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Speaker 3: that like something clicked in my brain at that point

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Speaker 3: in time, even as a college student of women helping

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Speaker 3: women how hard it was for women sports to break through,

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Speaker 3: and I just carried that with me for a long time.

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Speaker 3: When I finally got to a point where I was

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Speaker 3: in a position where I had the ability to make

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Speaker 3: discis visions and drive meaningful change, that's when I was like,

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Speaker 3: we need to be more intentional about this, because this

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Speaker 3: isn't something that's just going to happen on its own.

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Speaker 3: It's something that's going to take brands and women in

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Speaker 3: leadership positions to push it through. And the first thing

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Speaker 3: we did was the sponsorship of the WICC, which was

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Speaker 3: honestly like one of the first things you could do

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Speaker 3: in women's sports back in the day. So that was

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Speaker 3: really the first way we came in.

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Speaker 2: What's the WICCA.

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Speaker 3: It was the Women's International Friendlies, and they had brought

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Speaker 3: the men's friendlies and the women's friendlies to this country.

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Speaker 3: They played in soccer stadiums, big soccer stadiums, college football

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Speaker 3: stadiums all over the country, and we did a big

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Speaker 3: partnership with them. First one was in Miami, second one

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Speaker 3: was in Portland. And when you started to see the

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Speaker 3: number of people that were coming out in the fandom,

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Speaker 3: you knew that there was something percolating here.

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Speaker 1: When you were at Michigan State and you were helping

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Speaker 1: these other schools, did you recognize it as any sort

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Speaker 1: of activism or did it just feel like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is what we're doing. Because I remember in college, and

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Speaker 1: I've told the story before, the coaches of the football

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Speaker 1: team were trying to get our track team to not

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Speaker 1: wear whatever we wore to practice into the weight room

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Speaker 1: that we shared. We were supposed to change into something

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Speaker 1: that was less distracting for the football players. And I

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Speaker 1: started a petition and had everyone on the women's and

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Speaker 1: men's track team and our coaches sign it and be like,

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Speaker 1: we're not responsible for your team's lack of focus.

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Speaker 2: This is what we wear to practice.

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Speaker 1: We jump into sand pits, we jump over poles, like

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Speaker 1: we're gonna wear that into the weight room.

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Speaker 2: And the next day they were like, carry.

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Speaker 1: On, never mind, We've just been told that it's this

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Speaker 1: very sexist and bullshit. And it wasn't in my mind like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm an activist, I'm fighting. I was just like, that's wrong,

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Speaker 1: We're not doing that and let's move on. Did you

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Speaker 1: think about it that way or is it not only

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Speaker 1: until upon reflection that you're like, oh, we were actually

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Speaker 1: doing something.

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Speaker 3: I think more it was more upon reflection. But I

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Speaker 3: think for us, when I went up to Michigan State

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Speaker 3: as a freshman, we were not varsity status yet, so

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Speaker 3: we had to fight for our own varsity status. We

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Speaker 3: had this coach I'll never forget. His name was Michael Taut.

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Speaker 3: He was a German guy, and he was instrumental like

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Speaker 3: you guys should be a varsity sport. And I remember

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Speaker 3: we fought and fought and fought, and he fought really

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Speaker 3: hard alongside with us. And then when the program got

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Speaker 3: its varsity status this year, they fired him. They said,

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Speaker 3: you're not going to be the coach that we're going

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Speaker 3: to make the men's soccer team coach coach both right,

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Speaker 3: And that was really more of when the whole activism

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Speaker 3: thing clicked of like, wow, we just fought so hard

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Speaker 3: to get our varsity status. He fought alongside with us,

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Speaker 3: and as soon as we got what we deserved and

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Speaker 3: he got what he deserved, he.

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Speaker 2: Got taken out.

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Speaker 3: And that I think really emboldened us as a group

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Speaker 3: of like, we've got to figure out how to make

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Speaker 3: this okay at other schools.

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Speaker 1: So back in twenty twenty two, Ali made a big

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Speaker 1: splash announcing the fifty to fifty Pledge to spend equal

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Speaker 1: amounts in advertising with both men's and women's sports. What

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Speaker 1: percentage of the spend was ally dedicating to women at

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Speaker 1: the time when you boldly declared we're getting to fifty

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Speaker 1: to fifty, you know, I mean, I always say I

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Speaker 1: was part of the problem because the numbers back then

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Speaker 1: we were like ninety ten on a national basis, and

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Speaker 1: we had never looked at it, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: when I said, let's take a look and see what

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Speaker 1: we're spending, it was right around the national basis, it

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Speaker 1: was ninety percent going into men's sports and ten percent

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Speaker 1: going into women's sports.

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Speaker 3: And then we we came up with that idea of

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Speaker 3: like what if we went for parody, what if we

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Speaker 3: worked towards getting to fifty to fifty?

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Speaker 1: Called Foudy and we Julie Foudy the new Billy Jean

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Speaker 1: King is what I always say. She's like, I've signed

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Speaker 1: her up to be the next generations BJK.

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Speaker 3: I love that. That's awesome and just and said, you know,

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Speaker 3: would you help us make this announcement And we didn't

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Speaker 3: have anything figured out there. We had no idea how

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Speaker 3: we were going to do it, and I remember because

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Speaker 3: the team was freaking out. Everyone was like, we're going

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Speaker 3: to have to go ask for extra money. We can't

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Speaker 3: not spend ninety percent of our budget in men's sports.

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Speaker 2: All of our brand.

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Speaker 3: Health metrics are going to, you know, go down the drain.

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Speaker 3: And we had to go ask for all this second

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Speaker 3: extra money. And I'm like, no, we're not going to

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Speaker 3: do that. We're going to figure out how to optimize

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Speaker 3: out of things that aren't performing well, and we're going

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Speaker 3: to lean into this because if we are going to

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Speaker 3: make a promise like this, we have to believe it.

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Speaker 3: And so we made the pledge without any clue of

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Speaker 3: how we were going to do it, and here we are.

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Speaker 1: I was actually at the SBNW Sumn. Of course, when

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Speaker 1: you announced the fifty to fifty pledge. You reportedly got

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Speaker 1: a text from your boss saying, it's a really good idea,

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Speaker 1: but you probably should have told.

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Speaker 2: Me first, Which is amazing.

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Speaker 1: Was that the most of the pushback, or a little

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Speaker 1: bit more, a little bit more pushback at the time, that.

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Speaker 2: Was the most of it.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, I underestimated how big the reaction was going to be.

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Speaker 3: I just thought, Oh, we're going to make this and

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Speaker 3: you know it's not a thing, and it blew up.

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Speaker 3: You know, you were in the room. The room erupted.

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Speaker 3: There was tons of earned media that came out of it.

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Speaker 3: And then I was kind of like, oh shit, I

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Speaker 3: probably I didn't tell him blah blah blah, but I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: he's not going to see it.

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Speaker 2: That was my thought.

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Speaker 3: And then that night it was like eight o'clock night

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Speaker 3: and get a I got a text from one of

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Speaker 3: our board members who is a huge women's sports fan,

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Speaker 3: and she did a group message with me and my

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Speaker 3: boss and she attached one of the articles and she's like,

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Speaker 3: this is amazing. I've never been more proud to be

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Speaker 3: on the ALLY board. Blah blah, blah blah. And then

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Speaker 3: two seconds later he was like, this is a great idea,

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Speaker 3: but you should probably tell your boss before you make major.

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Speaker 2: Enounces like this.

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Speaker 3: But that was it, And honestly, it is a huge

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Speaker 3: pride point with an Ally, like a massive pride point

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Speaker 3: to the point that in our earnings call, our CEO

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Speaker 3: will actually give updates on where we stand on the

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Speaker 3: fifty to fifty pledge amazing, which is pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: There is a feeling of like like pit of your

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Speaker 1: stomach when you don't think anything's a big deal, you

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Speaker 1: put it out somewhere and then it's a huge deal

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Speaker 1: and you're.

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Speaker 2: Like, is this way? Is this good?

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Speaker 3: Wait?

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Speaker 2: I want marketing, I.

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Speaker 1: Want earn meetia, but like, uh oh, I didn't really

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Speaker 1: consider how this reaction would be. How easy or difficult

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Speaker 1: did it prove to start that ramp up process.

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Speaker 3: It was a lot harder than I thought it was

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Speaker 3: going to be, and not because there wasn't the desire

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Speaker 3: from the team to do it. It was simply a

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Speaker 3: result of the unavailability of the media and candidly, what

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Speaker 3: we had to do was create it and it took

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Speaker 3: a lot of work. Everything from the multimillion dollar deal

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Speaker 3: that we did with ESPN and Disney and the idea

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Speaker 3: was that we were going to spend ninety five percent

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Speaker 3: of the dollars that we had committed in Disney Media

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Speaker 3: to whom Sports. But they had to move those sports

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Speaker 3: into better prime time slots and that was like a

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Speaker 3: six month process. We worked with the NWSL and CBS

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Speaker 3: to get the championship game moved into primetime A couple

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Speaker 3: of years ago, again that didn't exist, and so it

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Speaker 3: took work. So yeah, if you think about it, every

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Speaker 3: year we restarted zero. So if the year before we're

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Speaker 3: close to making the fifty to fifty, as soon as

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Speaker 3: you know, January one rolls around, you go right back

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Speaker 3: to zero and you got to go find that media.

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Speaker 3: And it's a lot of work.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about it on this show in part because

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Speaker 1: the iHeart Women's Sports Network was created to create more

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Speaker 1: inventory in the women's sports space. When you have brands

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Speaker 1: that want to get involved, there's not a lot of

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Speaker 1: shoulder programming, there's not a lot of digital content, TV shows,

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Speaker 1: radio shows, all the spaces that men's sports earn that money.

437
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,200
Speaker 1: It's not just sponsoring a team jersey or even getting

438
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,199
Speaker 1: involved with a TV package. There's so much more surrounding it,

439
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,160
Speaker 1: and in women's sports that has been such a deficit,

440
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 1: and so part of the goal for this network and

441
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 1: for this show is to create more content that could

442
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,440
Speaker 1: be invested in and sending more dollars the way of

443
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,880
Speaker 1: women's leagues and sports and content and tipped ventures, which

444
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 1: I had fielding Jamison on the show recently talking about

445
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 1: that they're investing in everything around women's sports as opposed

446
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,920
Speaker 1: to just straight down the middle on the leagues and teams,

447
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:48,880
Speaker 1: and so there is a lot more money coming into

448
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 1: that space. But when you got into it, you had

449
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 1: to literally change the long time practices of the worldwide leader.

450
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 1: What did ESPN say when you said, Hey, we want

451
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 1: to give you all this money, but we're not doing

452
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,120
Speaker 1: it at three am, and you need to move this

453
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 1: into primetime? And why haven't you had a championship game

454
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,199
Speaker 1: ever played in linear prime time?

455
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy, right. I always call it the vicious cycle.

456
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 3: I think fundamentally you have this issue. If you think

457
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 3: about the components that make up the sports ecosystem, it

458
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 3: starts with the media.

459
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 2: Right.

460
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 3: The media is what drives all of the revenue. It's

461
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 3: what drives all of the power because historically the media companies,

462
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 3: who have to be profitable and have to monetize, have

463
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 3: not been able to attract brands because they just brands

464
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 3: have fundamentally not thought that the engagement was there and

465
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 3: the eyeballs were there. They've just put women's sports and

466
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 3: lossy time slots, and as a result, the brands don't

467
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,239
Speaker 3: want to buy that media, which trickles down to the

468
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 3: amount of rev share that goes to the leagues, which

469
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 3: ultimately then impacts what they play pay the players. And

470
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 3: so our thesis was in the vicious call, somebody has

471
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 3: to blink first, and the only one that can blink first.

472
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 2: Is the brands.

473
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 3: The money is the money, and so when the money

474
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 3: comes to an ESPN or a Disney and says, all right,

475
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 3: we're willing to do this, but we have to work

476
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 3: together to make this happen, there was no resistance and

477
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 3: there was no pushback. And I mean I remember vividly,

478
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 3: like I went to dinner with Rita Farrow and we

479
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 3: had this conversation and she's like, this is amazing. Let's

480
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 3: sit down and we'll figure it out. And the team's

481
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 3: got to work. It's just there's so many pieces to it.

482
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 3: It's programming, as you know, it's time slots, it's and

483
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 3: the how do I bring other brands along? And so

484
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 3: it just fundamentally took a lot of work to do.

485
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 3: And I think once people started to see that we

486
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 3: had the receipts in terms of the actual results of

487
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 3: what it was driving, now you're seeing everybody right, or.

488
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 1: At least a lot more people like you said, somebody

489
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 1: has to blink. And what always frustrated me was the

490
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: belief system in things like the Little League World Series

491
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: or the umpteenth iteration of the XFL were like, oh, pickleball,

492
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: like let's put it everywhere, and it's like, oh my god,

493
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: what we've been saying for decade, Like give us a shot.

494
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 2: First, Thank you for blinking. We needed it.

495
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

496
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: You also were very thoughtful in how you sponsored. You

497
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 1: sponsored the NWSLPA, and you did that during the investigations

498
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: where the players who spoke up about toxic environments, sexual harassment,

499
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 1: and coercion were worried about the impact that they might

500
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: have on the league in which they played, and for

501
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: years that kind of stuff was able to exist because

502
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: players were scared into silence. So what benefit did you

503
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: see an adding a players union to your portfolio and

504
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: why did it matter to you to make sure that

505
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,719
Speaker 1: you stepped in and increased your sponsorship in the league

506
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: at that moment where it was probably weakest or most challenged.

507
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I remember that day so vividly, the

508
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 3: infamous Alex Morgan tweet that kind of broke it all

509
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 3: wide open. I was actually driving to Chicago for a

510
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,239
Speaker 3: girl's weekend, and my phone just started blowing up and

511
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 3: everyone's like, have you seen the tweet? Have you seen

512
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 3: the tweet? And I called again Foudy, I do like

513
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 3: your new name for it. And I called Ali Wagner

514
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 3: and I said, do you have Megan Burk's number? I

515
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 3: had never met Megan.

516
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: Burke, executive director.

517
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 4: I should say, yeah, NWSLP.

518
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 2: Thank you.

519
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 3: And I knew as a former player that it won.

520
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 3: It took a lot of bravery for those players. But two,

521
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 3: I also knew that they were scared that they would

522
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 3: lose their league and that other sponsors would be like, well,

523
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 3: I don't you know, I don't want to touch this anymore.

524
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: They'd let them figure their stuff out. And part of

525
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 3: what was blowing up on my phone was other cmos

526
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 3: that were sponsors, like what are you guys going to do?

527
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 3: Are you going to stay in or are you going

528
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 3: to leave? And so I reached out to Megan. She

529
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 3: was a little bit busy that day, so I heard

530
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 3: from her a couple of days later and I just said, hey,

531
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 3: we want the players to know that as the biggest

532
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 3: sponsor the NWSL, we're not going anywhere and we're really

533
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 3: proud of what they did, and we want to invest

534
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 3: in the players Association. And we said, you come back,

535
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,959
Speaker 3: tell us what you need, and we're going to make

536
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 3: it happen. And she came back and said, I'm a

537
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 3: staff of one. I think it was her and Tory

538
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 3: at the time. She's Tory Houster, president of the NWSI.

539
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 3: Thank you, and she said, we don't have any staff.

540
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 3: And so we made a monetary commitment to them to

541
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 3: staff up the PA, and then we extended our sponsorship

542
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 3: of the league because we wanted the players to know

543
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 3: that we weren't going anywhere. And then this is the

544
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 3: second part of what I did is I called literally

545
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 3: every CMO and I said, you cannot leave now. This

546
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 3: is the absolute worst signal. And what we have to

547
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 3: do is band together to force change in the league.

548
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 3: And that's the way we use our power. You can

549
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 3: either matter in that moment or not. And I wanted

550
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 3: our brand of matter well.

551
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: And I think it's an example of how you have

552
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: to look at your investment in spaces differently, understanding the

553
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: context in men's sports and most of the major investments

554
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: that you might be involved in. The power move is

555
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: leaving and saying we're taking our money out of this.

556
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 1: We do not stand with you in whatever problematic thing

557
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: you're going through, and the only way we think you'll

558
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: change your behavior.

559
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: Is if we take our money from you.

560
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: And in women's sports, that might feel like the move,

561
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,239
Speaker 1: but what that actually does is continue to remove the

562
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 1: power from the players and their ability to speak on

563
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: things like that because there's no financial stability there. But

564
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: also having to still say we're holding the league accountable

565
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: and we're demanding change while our money is here. I

566
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: think that's so important right now in this pivot point

567
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: where there is a lot more investment coming in, is

568
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 1: for people to understand how to view investment and return

569
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 1: on investment differently in the men's versus women's space. How

570
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 1: important is it for folks who are familiar with the

571
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: space to be the ones negotiating and id eating and

572
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 1: creating activations and investment versus say, a standard agency that

573
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: repurposes their data for men's sports.

574
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 4: Or takes the things they're doing and just moves it over.

575
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 3: It's massively critical. In fact, this is a conversation Laura

576
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 3: Corne and I from Deep Blue have all the time,

577
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 3: is you fundamentally have to use a different evaluation system

578
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: for women's sports than men's sports. You cannot apply the

579
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 3: two things. And oftentimes you also have to kind of

580
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 3: bet on the income and we have.

581
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:33,479
Speaker 2: If coome instead of outcome.

582
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, like it's an outcome that might happen.

583
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you don't have right, there's no guarantee. Like

584
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 3: we have over invested. We have overpaid candidly for certain sponsorships,

585
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 3: believing the thesis that right now the numbers look like this,

586
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 3: but two years the numbers are going to look like that.

587
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 3: Look at Unrivaled, that's a great example. We're the founding

588
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 3: partner in Unrivaled. Admitted to Unrivaled before they had players,

589
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 3: all they had was Fi and Stewey. They had no

590
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 3: players signed, they didn't know where they were going to play,

591
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 3: they had no media contract, they had nothing. We bet

592
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 3: on the fact that we fundamentally believed in the thesis

593
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 3: of it and that they needed one and that we

594
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,239
Speaker 3: would be one that would help carry a lot of

595
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 3: weight given our position in women's sports, and that if

596
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,959
Speaker 3: they could sign us and we could make the announcement

597
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 3: together that we were going to come in as the

598
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 3: founding partner, that that would be that would be the

599
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 3: spark that would help move the ball. And so if

600
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 3: I had just looked at that as a CMO and

601
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 3: looked at metrics, there would be no metrics for me

602
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 3: to look at. And that is, to your point, fundamentally

603
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 3: different than what you see in men's sports today. Men's

604
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 3: sports ecosystem has existed for hundreds of years. Women's sports

605
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 3: ecosystem is still in the infancy stage. Our oldest league

606
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 3: is the WNBA. It's not even thirty years old. And

607
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 3: so you're you are believing in what's to come and

608
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 3: helping drive those outcomes.

609
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's unfortunate that the product gets

610
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: blamed a lot for the failures of imagination or innovation

611
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: from often the standard agencies that are going in.

612
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 2: To do the work on behalf of places.

613
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 3: You know what speaks to that too, Sarah, Which is amazing.

614
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 3: I just read last year and it's just continues to

615
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 3: stick in my head and bother me. Less than six

616
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 3: percent of the Fortune five hundred is investing in women's sports.

617
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 3: So while we feel because we're both in the in

618
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 3: the ecosystem, right, so you've seen more brands and you

619
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 3: kind of feel the momentum and then when you really

620
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 3: look at the data and you step back, and I

621
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: have this conversation a lot with like Kristen Cook from

622
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 3: State Farm and Kate Johnson from Google, and the people

623
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 3: that are in the ecosystem kind of look at it.

624
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: It is the.

625
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 4: Same, Yes, a lot of the same brands.

626
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: It's a lot of the same brands, which like props

627
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: to you, but also what is everyone else doing? And

628
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: I feel like the well is so poisoned that if

629
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: you gave them like a blind item and you said, Okay,

630
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: here's where this was on this year, here's where it

631
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: is now, here's where it's anticipated to be by this

632
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: Do you think it's a good investment?

633
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: They would all say yes.

634
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: And then you took the you know, like old man

635
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: Weather's from the amusement park. You took the bag off

636
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: the head and it's women's sports, and like, oh no, no,

637
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: I don't think that because they carry such terrible antiquated

638
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: ideas about it into the space and into the investment and.

639
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 3: In the evaluation system. Like you said, right, they're looking

640
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 3: at the metrics, right, and.

641
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: It's a different product, and it's a different market, and

642
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: it's a different demograph against different people that you're appealing to,

643
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: and it's a different income or outcome that you're looking for.

644
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: And I remember the first Sports Innovation Lab Fan Project research.

645
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: I read about brand affinity and change of behavior and

646
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: likelihood of purchase and all the things that are great

647
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: metrics beyond just awareness. And men's sports will give you

648
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: a ton of awareness, but all the other stuff is

649
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: so high on the women's side if you do it right.

650
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: Is Ali currently eating the fifty to fifty commitment. We're

651
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: almost at the end of this year.

652
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 3: We will by the time that we get to the

653
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 3: end of this year, forty eight percent of our budget

654
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 3: will be spent in women's sports media fifty two and

655
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 3: men's sports media. Years when we don't have things like

656
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 3: a World Cup or Olympics are hard to the prior

657
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 3: conversation that we are having. I am hopeful that we're

658
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 3: going to hit it next year, which would be a

659
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 3: year ahead, which would be amazing. And then that doesn't

660
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 3: mean like, okay, then it's over and we're done. Then

661
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 3: it just becomes and it's an institutional part of our

662
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 3: metrics now, Like I literally have a scorecard that I

663
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 3: look at every quarter with all of our brand health

664
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 3: metrics and all of our account acquisition metrics and all

665
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 3: of our performance metrics. And one of the lines on

666
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 3: there is status on the fifty to fifty Pledge, and

667
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 3: we track it and talk about it all the time,

668
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 3: so it'll be over my dead body that we don't

669
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 3: hit it.

670
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: And the pledge is a fifty to fifty money commitment.

671
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: So how far does marketing money get you in men's

672
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: sports versus women's these days? And have you noticed a

673
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: change even from when you first pledge to now?

674
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, we have this conversation a lot. I'm like,

675
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 3: I could buy one spot in an NFL game on

676
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 3: Christmas Day, don't.

677
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 4: Go to the bathroom, don't go to the exactly.

678
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: Or I can buy an entire season of.

679
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: You know, sort of like season tickets.

680
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's wild, and so that's how we started to

681
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 3: think about it. And to your point, one of the

682
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 3: things that we really measure and think a lot about

683
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 3: is engagement, loyalty, favorability. Since we made the fifty to

684
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 3: fifty pledge, our brand favorability has gone up. So in

685
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: women's sports space, it's anywhere from twenty to forty percent

686
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: higher depending on the sport or the team that we're

687
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 3: sponsoring than it is against the general market, and our

688
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 3: overall brand favorability has gone up by thirty one percent

689
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 3: while the financial services category has dropped three percent since

690
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: a You know, that's a thirty five percent swing. And

691
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 3: you know, while I can't attribute all of that to

692
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 3: women's sports, I do attribute a big part of it

693
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 3: because you know, fans of women's sports, like they vote.

694
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: With their feet one thousand percent, and it's been proven

695
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: over and over. You put women athletes in your ads,

696
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: you have them speaking about your brand, it changes people's

697
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: perception because they are relatable, they feel authentic, they feel

698
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: genuine and even when you know.

699
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: You're being sold to, you're like happy.

700
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: It's like a very weird thing when you support a

701
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: space that has been historically underfunded, is people want you

702
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: to show up in their social feeds and they're TV

703
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: watching because the ooh, look at they're doing something for

704
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: this thing I care about, as opposed to a lot

705
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: of other advertising that feels like a nuisance or a

706
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: big sell.

707
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and you know the other thing. I mean, look,

708
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 3: I get asked, look, I'm on a public company, right

709
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 3: and I have a board we have shareholders. I have

710
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 3: a responsibility to manage our shareholders investment in our company appropriately.

711
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 3: You know, from time to time people will ask me, well,

712
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 3: did you just do this because you played soccer at

713
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 3: Michigan State and you love women's sports. No, the business

714
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 3: thesis for us is incredible. If you think about in

715
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 3: the next five to eight years, the wealth transference to

716
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 3: women in this country, he's going to be over twenty

717
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 3: trillion dollars. Women control eighty percent of all the purchase decisions.

718
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 3: Women are disproportionately going to college at rates higher than

719
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 3: young men right now, graduating at higher rates, getting married

720
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 3: later if at all, and hold a lot of the

721
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 3: money power. We had a guy by the name of

722
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 3: Joe Coughlin. He runs the MIT Aging Lab, really fascinating guy,

723
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 3: and he came in and he spoke to my team

724
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: and he said, as a company, if you don't have

725
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 3: a women's marketing strategy, you don't have a strategy. And

726
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 3: so when I marry the the growth of women's sports

727
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 3: with the just the wealth and the influenced potential of

728
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 3: women in this country, I look at the statistics of

729
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 3: what's happening to our brand, the favorability that I talked about,

730
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 3: sixty five percent of everybody that comes to our storefront

731
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 3: is female. Our account acquisition women are surging past men.

732
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 3: I mean, you could make a thesis for us to

733
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 3: be the bank of women. You really could, and I

734
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 3: think it would be highly accreative to our business. And

735
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 3: so there's really big business rationale behind what we did

736
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 3: what we did.

737
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: It also feels like there's a lot of research around

738
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: women's sports fans and their agility and fluidity, because it's

739
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: a necessity in the space you need to be able

740
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: to know and afford at this point to say I'm

741
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: going to watch games on Ion, Paramount plus Peacock, you know,

742
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: ESPN Scripts, like all those different subscriptions, all those different spaces,

743
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 1: and ally is an online only bank where you're anticipating

744
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: that you've got a client that's more modern and probably

745
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: younger and is happy and willing to participate in a

746
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: banking space that doesn't have brig and mortar buildings to

747
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: walk into. So you're also a peel to people that

748
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: are probably naturally suited to your product. Absolutely in a

749
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 1: space that you're attacking and going after, are there specific

750
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: moments of joy or like I told you, so I

751
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: was right that you want.

752
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 2: To shout out. I love hearing those you know for me.

753
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 3: Honestly, I think the most emotional moment in this entire

754
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 3: journey was when we helped get the championship game moved

755
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 3: to prime time and the game was in DC, and

756
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 3: I remember being down on the field we did the

757
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 3: Rookie of the Year presentation. I think it was Nick

758
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 3: Nail mcgermo that year, and so it's down on the

759
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 3: field for the start of the game. We did the

760
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 3: Rookie of the Year presentation and then pivoted right to

761
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 3: time to sing the anthem. And I remember standing down

762
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 3: there and listening to the anthem play and looking around

763
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 3: the stadium and it was packed and how many people

764
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 3: were there, Moms with their little girls, dads with their

765
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 3: little girls, and boys and boys.

766
00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: Amazing.

767
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I got very emotional. I started crying, and

768
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 3: I said to myself, no little girl is ever going

769
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 3: to have to think she's not worth primetime anymore because

770
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 3: of us. And that was one of the biggest regrets

771
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 3: of my life.

772
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 2: Is there.

773
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 3: When I graduated from college, there was no national team,

774
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 3: there was no path, there was no professional women's league.

775
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 3: It was just done something that I had done my

776
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 3: entire life, that I loved since I was five years old.

777
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 2: It was just done.

778
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 3: And then I thought that night, none these little girls

779
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 3: will never have to feel that dead end. So that

780
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 3: to me has been probably the biggest one. And then yes,

781
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 3: now like just the popularity of women's sports, just how

782
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 3: explosive it is, the conversation around it. I'm definitely striding

783
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 3: into board meetings feeling pretty proud.

784
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: And I think in a lot of ways, the brands

785
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: that have been leading this have been really sharing best

786
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: practices and talking to other brands about it, because it's

787
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,919
Speaker 1: still is a rising tide lifts all boat situation. It's

788
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: not that beneficial to be the only You would think sometimes, oh,

789
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: we're really dominating the space, but you actually want it

790
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 1: to be more valued in general and have a higher

791
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: profile because of everybody contributing to the awareness around it

792
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: and knowing the players and the teams.

793
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 4: In the league and everything else totally so that your

794
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 4: investment goes farther.

795
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 3: I've never shared a marketing playbook with other brands as

796
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 3: much as I do what we do in women's sports

797
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 3: for that very reason, and even people at competitive banks

798
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 3: that I'll sit down, who are like, how are you

799
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 3: guys doing it? What space do you see for us?

800
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 3: And the other aspect of what this journey has been

801
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 3: just for me so beautiful and amazing, And I know

802
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 3: you feel it because you're in the thick of it

803
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 3: as well. Is it's everybody. It's not just other brands,

804
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,439
Speaker 3: it's the players. It's even if you're not I don't

805
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 3: have an athlete relationship with somebody, or you don't have

806
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 3: a PSA with somebody, like they are in your orbit

807
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 3: and they reach out and they're like, how can I help?

808
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 3: And you help them, and it's just different than anything

809
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 3: I've ever experienced, and it's honestly been the honor of

810
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 3: my career.

811
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 2: We've got an idea for you on the show that

812
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 2: I just remembered.

813
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: We had Ali Sentnor on the show and al Ali

814
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: is a sponsor of her team at the time, Utah,

815
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: and we were asking if she felt like she was

816
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: just constantly being personally sponsored. And I feel like you

817
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: could go around and find all the people named Ali.

818
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 4: It's a great create a campaign around that.

819
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 2: I love that. Just something to think about before I

820
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 2: let you go.

821
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: I want to hear about your do it right mantra

822
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: and how that has led what you've been working on.

823
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, So do it right has been when we launched

824
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 3: our brand, oh my gosh, seventeen eighteen years ago. Now,

825
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 3: do it right was one of our brand pillars. It

826
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 3: was talked straight, do right, and be obviously better. Those

827
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 3: were the strategic pillars for the company. And do it

828
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 3: right has just always been about the golden rule, do

829
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 3: onto others as you would do to yourself. And you know,

830
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 3: I would say historically financial services have not behaved in

831
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 3: a way you don't say.

832
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 2: Ever heard that?

833
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 4: Are there any major stories we might have missed lately.

834
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 3: That is as honorable as they should be? And so

835
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 3: do it Right was always about that. It was always

836
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 3: about how do we disrupt the category? How do we

837
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 3: honestly put the customer at the center of everything that

838
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 3: we do, and it drives our decision making. You know,

839
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 3: first bank to ever have twenty four by seven service,

840
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 3: first digital bank, first bank to wave completely wave overdraft fees.

841
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 3: Overdraft fees disproportionately affect those that can afford them least,

842
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 3: particularly people of color. You're not overdrafting because you're like, hey,

843
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 3: I want to wake up tomorrow and pay a bunch

844
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 3: of fifty dollars fees. You're overdrafting because you can't afford

845
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 3: or you don't know, and so it's just always been

846
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 3: a part of us. I'd say the fifty to fifty

847
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 3: pledge was part of do it right, what we did

848
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 3: with the PA, all of those things. It's just honestly

849
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 3: how we behave It is the reason that I've always

850
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 3: stayed at ally because it's not just a set of words,

851
00:40:59,320 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 3: it's the way we live.

852
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: Feels rarer and rarer these days to look around and

853
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: see people doing it right, So keep at it. It's

854
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: always great to talk to you. Thanks so much for

855
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: coming on.

856
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 3: Thank you, it's great seeing you.

857
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Andrea for taking the time and for

858
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: being a badass leading the way. We got to take

859
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 1: another break when we come back, start a family fight

860
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: for just thirty six dollars.

861
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 2: Welcome back, slices.

862
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: We love that you're listening, but we want you to

863
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: get in the game every day too. So here's our

864
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: good game play of the day. It's cyber Monday, and

865
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: that means.

866
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 2: There's a big sale on all good game with Sarah

867
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:38,439
Speaker 2: Spain merch.

868
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: Now's the best time to get those holiday gifts for

869
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: your favorite slices.

870
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 2: And soon to be slices.

871
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: The classic orange on a slice tea, the Good Game

872
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: Good Game few shirt that you obviously need for any

873
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: and all rec and social LEADGA games, ask me about

874
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Speaker 1: women's sports and the versatile, always in style Unwable tea.

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Speaker 1: You can use the code cyber Monday on Breakingtea dot

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Speaker 1: Good Game purchase today and today's deal also includes twenty

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Speaker 1: percent off WNBPA and US Women's National Team PA shirts.

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Speaker 4: We'll link to the site in our show notes.

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00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: We always love to hear from you, so hit us

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00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: up on email Good Game at wondermedianetwork dot com or

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00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,919
Speaker 1: leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two four

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00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: fifty seventy and don't forget to subscribe.

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Speaker 2: Rate and review.

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00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: It's real easy watch a tablecloth that requires a closer

886
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: look rating ten out of ten passive aggressive stars review.

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00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: During a lovely Thanksgiving weekend with my family, my sister

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Speaker 1: Katie introduced me to holiday tablecloths and table runners that

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Speaker 1: are sure to spark conversation with your family.

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Speaker 2: Ah, look at this one.

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Speaker 1: A lovely multicolored autumn leaves for Thanksgiving, and oh, on

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Speaker 1: second glance inside the leaves, there's a subtle message Trump.

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Speaker 1: And look at this one, a red table runner with

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Speaker 1: lovely white snowflakes inside them.

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Speaker 2: Ah yes, Trump.

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Speaker 1: Now you won't be surprised to learn that there are

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Speaker 1: several designs offered by several sellers.

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Speaker 2: This seems to be very popular this season. We'll link

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Speaker 2: to a few of them in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: If you want to start a fight at your next

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Speaker 1: family gathering, now it's your turn. Y'all rate and review,

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00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good Game, Andrea, Good Game,

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Speaker 1: Mikayla Schiffren you acls. How many times do we have

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Speaker 1: to say it can? Weak ass ligaments? Good Game with

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Speaker 1: Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership

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Speaker 1: with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us

907
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

908
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 2: Or wherever you get your podcasts.

909
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are alex Azie

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00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: Grace Lynch, Taylor Williamson, and Lucy Jones. Our executive producers

911
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.

912
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,240
Speaker 1: Our editors are Emily Rudder, Britney Martinez, and Gianna Palmer.

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00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: Production assistants from Avery Loftus and I'm Your Host Sarah

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Speaker 1: Spain