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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, and welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Lee Klasgaw, Senior Freight, Transportation and Logistics

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Speaker 1: Analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence, Bloomberg's in house research arm of

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Speaker 1: almost five hundred analysts and strategists. Before diving in a

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Speaker 1: little public service announcement, your support is instrumental to keep

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Speaker 1: bringing great guests onto the podcast like the one we

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Speaker 1: have today. If you haven't already, please do take a

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Speaker 1: moment to follow, rate and share the Talking Transports podcast.

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Speaker 1: We appreciate your support. I'm very excited to have Ben McLain,

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Speaker 1: the CEO of Ruin Transportation, with us today. Ben was

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Speaker 1: previously the company's chief operating officer and chief Information officer

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Speaker 1: prior to becoming CEO in twenty fifteen. Before joining Ron

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven, Ben assisted companies with mergers, acquisitions,

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Speaker 1: and equity offerings at William Blair in Company in Chicago

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Speaker 1: and the law firm of Kravath, Swain and Moore in

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Speaker 1: New York. Ben holds a Masters of Business Administration from

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Speaker 1: Kellogg's School of Management and received his law and undergraduate

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Speaker 1: degrees from Northwestern University. So I guess go.

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Speaker 2: Wildcats, absolutely, go Cat go Kats.

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Speaker 1: So run is not a household name for everyone. So

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Speaker 1: can you take a couple of moments and tell us

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Speaker 1: about the company that you run.

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Speaker 3: You bet, Lee, it'd be my pleasure and thanks for

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Speaker 3: having me. We are not a household name. I'd say

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Speaker 3: you may see more of the major retailers, grocers, manufacturers

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Speaker 3: names even on the assets that we run. We're about

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Speaker 3: a four thousand plus truck private kind of outsourced fleet,

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Speaker 3: dedicated fleet provider.

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Speaker 2: We were unmanaged transportation.

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Speaker 3: It's about about half of our business, along with the

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Speaker 3: other half of the business.

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Speaker 2: Being the fleet side.

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Speaker 3: And inside of that kind of managed transportation, non asset

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Speaker 3: based logistics, we also run value added warehousing.

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Speaker 2: We run brokerage services as well.

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Speaker 3: So we are fortunate to serve some of the great

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Speaker 3: companies and brands in North America and beyond, and we

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Speaker 3: do that by becoming an extension of their team and

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Speaker 3: helping them manage their supply chains with one of those

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Speaker 3: four services. We were founded in nineteen thirty two, so

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Speaker 3: we've been at this for a while and it's really

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Speaker 3: is a great story. Like many of the companies that

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Speaker 3: have had the pleasure of meeting in the transportation logistics industry.

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Speaker 3: We've got a long history that started in the Great Depression.

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Speaker 3: Our founder was named John Ruan and he was an

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Speaker 3: eighteen year old kid at Iowa State. His father was

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Speaker 3: a doctor, and so the family was relatively well off

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Speaker 3: and financially even though the times were tough in the Depression.

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Speaker 3: But his dad died unexpectedly. The family lost all of

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Speaker 3: their savings in the stock market crash, and so John's

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Speaker 3: mom told them that they had no more money to

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Speaker 3: send them to school back at Iowa State for his

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Speaker 3: sophomore year, and so he was going to need to

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Speaker 3: find another way to start a career, support himself, support

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Speaker 3: the family, honestly, having lost his father, and he was

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Speaker 3: always an entrepreneurial person, he had an incredible grit. He

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Speaker 3: had already started a couple of companies before attending college,

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Speaker 3: and through a contact, he learned that if he could

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Speaker 3: get his hands out of truck, there was a job

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Speaker 3: for him hauling bravel south south of Des Moines here

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Speaker 3: in Iowa, and that's exactly what he did.

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Speaker 2: He traded in the family par for a.

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Speaker 3: Truck and some debt, and on July fourth, nineteen thirty

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Speaker 3: two Independence Day, while probably many others were celebrat he

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Speaker 3: showed up to the gravel site and all his first load,

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Speaker 3: starting our company.

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Speaker 2: And so back then he.

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Speaker 3: Was sleeping in a tent so he could be as

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Speaker 3: efficient as possible and starting a new life after tragedy.

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Speaker 3: And over time and over decades he built that business

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Speaker 3: up into what it is today and grew it remarkably

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Speaker 3: and very successfully. He also got into banking and real

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Speaker 3: estate and a whole lot of other endeavors in his time.

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Speaker 3: So he was really a serial entrepreneur, a great innovator,

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Speaker 3: great leader, and a lot of those lessons and the

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Speaker 3: values that it took to build this business back in

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Speaker 3: those early days are still very much a part of

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Speaker 3: our culture and our company and the fabric of who

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Speaker 3: we are. We're still owned by the third generation family members,

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Speaker 3: the grandkids of John ruin S and because of that,

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Speaker 3: we've got a lot of great support to continue to

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Speaker 3: live out the legacy and grow on it and build

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Speaker 3: it even stronger than it ever was. And we've just

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Speaker 3: got a lot of great support from the family to

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Speaker 3: continue to do that and operate this company ideally in

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Speaker 3: some ways that are different from what many shippers out

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Speaker 3: there may experience when they go to PreCure services like

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Speaker 3: the ones we provide.

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Speaker 1: Great and for those that are unfamiliar with RAN, you know,

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Speaker 1: Transport Topics has them as the twelfth largest truckload carrier

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Speaker 1: and the eighth largest dedicated carrier, so they, you know,

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Speaker 1: while maybe not a house of name, they should be

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Speaker 1: because they're pretty large and pretty active in the space.

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Speaker 1: Are you guys more active in certain regions of the country,

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Speaker 1: like or should we be seeing your trucks everywhere on

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Speaker 1: the roads across the United States and Canada?

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Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, you would see us all across the US

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Speaker 3: and in North America. But lots of times you don't

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Speaker 3: see Ruan on the side of the truck. You may

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Speaker 3: see the name of our customer because so much of

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Speaker 3: what we're about is giving them a very high service

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Speaker 3: when it's related to our dedicated contract transportation offering, giving

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Speaker 3: them a very high level of service and control over

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Speaker 3: a fleet that they may not want to run and

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Speaker 3: operate themselves for a variety of reasons, and they look

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Speaker 3: to an expert like us to operate that for them.

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Speaker 3: So you just may not see our name on a

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Speaker 3: lot of trucks, but a lot of them, a lot

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Speaker 3: of them, you will. But on the managed transportation side,

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Speaker 3: you know, you won't see us at all. Honestly, that's

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Speaker 3: where we really it's a very technology enabled service that

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Speaker 3: helps our customers not just find a full truckload that

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Speaker 3: they're ready to move, but actually get pretty deep into

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Speaker 3: their own erp and their own production or distribution systems

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Speaker 3: to really at the order level, to say, hey, we've

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Speaker 3: got all this business, we have all these sales orders,

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Speaker 3: what's the best way to move them, what's the best mode,

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Speaker 3: how do we optimize it, how do we get the

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Speaker 3: right carriers, how do we ensure service as high and

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Speaker 3: also that our rates.

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Speaker 2: Are as competitive as possible.

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Speaker 3: So that's all done with a lot of technology software.

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Speaker 3: We have a platform that we obviously deploy there and

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Speaker 3: a lot of smart logistics engineers that then work on

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Speaker 3: behalf of our customers, oftentimes side by side with them

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Speaker 3: to help optimize their supply chains and move their inventory,

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Speaker 3: move their products. And of course we run warehouses, so

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Speaker 3: we manage a lot of inventory for a lot of customers,

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Speaker 3: whether it's finished product or raw materials on the way

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Speaker 3: into manufacturing lines. So you won't you know, lots of

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Speaker 3: times you just won't see our name out there, and

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Speaker 3: that's we're just fine with that. We really are in

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Speaker 3: this business to make our customers successful. And if they're

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Speaker 3: successful and they're pleased with the kind of service and

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Speaker 3: capabilities that we're bringing to them, that's what we're all about.

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Speaker 1: And can you expand on the managed to So you're

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Speaker 1: saying it's it's more than just you're just more than

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Speaker 1: a freight broker, right, You're you're doing more services than

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Speaker 1: than a typical freight broker.

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Speaker 2: You bet.

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Speaker 3: One of our for service lines is freight brokerage and

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Speaker 3: so we will help match, you know, full truckloads with

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Speaker 3: the capacity that's out there and help our customers move

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Speaker 3: freight in that way. But the managed transportation is definitely

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Speaker 3: several layers deeper, and it's more, it's a much more

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Speaker 3: certainly there's doesn't have the same transactional characteristics because typically

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Speaker 3: a customer brings us on for a number of years,

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Speaker 3: and there's systems integration and there's really a deep understanding

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Speaker 3: that's developed of how do you run your business and

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Speaker 3: how do you move freight within the business, and what

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Speaker 3: can we bring to you from a capability and optimization,

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Speaker 3: software technology automation standpoint, that you don't want to invest

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Speaker 3: in yourself, so you don't have the time and the

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Speaker 3: people or the capabilities to to operate a platform like that.

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Speaker 3: So we're brought into a lot of shippers large and

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Speaker 3: small to do that kind of work and to sit

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Speaker 3: alongside of them and help them manage that whole freight

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Speaker 3: cycle all the way from you know, the sales order

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Speaker 3: has come in. In some cases too, there's finished product

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Speaker 3: going out the door, and how we optimize that chosen

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Speaker 3: the carrier, ensure that they're paid correctly and accurately, and

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Speaker 3: continued then a cycle of improvement and adjustment as their

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Speaker 3: business and their needs change.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm assuming from some of the comments you

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Speaker 1: just made earlier, the majority run business is based in

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Speaker 1: the retail. Retail are mostly your customers.

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Speaker 2: You know what.

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Speaker 3: We are in just about every industry that's out there.

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Speaker 3: Retail and grocery is certainly a big one for us,

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Speaker 3: probably the largest. We're in a lot of food production,

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Speaker 3: food processing, manufacturing, have you equipment manufacturing, automotive metals, gases

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Speaker 3: and chemicals, dairy. I mean, there's just a very wide

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Speaker 3: array of industries where our services make sense, whether it's

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Speaker 3: a dedicated fleet, whether it's the Spanish transportation service, value

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Speaker 3: added warehousing, or the brokerage side. And sometimes customers need

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Speaker 3: just one of those services. Sometimes they want to come

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Speaker 3: to a single three pl because they need a bit

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Speaker 3: of all of those services, and then they need a

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Speaker 3: provider who's integrated them so they don't feel like they're

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Speaker 3: dealing with four different siloed divisions or four different companies

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Speaker 3: when they really need to run one holistic supply chain.

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Speaker 3: And so will many customers use a single service, but

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Speaker 3: we have a growing number that use us for multiple.

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Speaker 1: Right, and dedicated, from our perspective, is a great business

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Speaker 1: to be and for for acid based carriers, just given

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Speaker 1: the fact that it's a lot less volatile. The contracts

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Speaker 1: are a lot longer, a lot more visibility than you

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Speaker 1: know what you're seeing in the over the road markets,

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Speaker 1: you know, and some of the public companies that play

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Speaker 1: in that space or JB.

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Speaker 3: HUT you know.

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Speaker 1: So because you know, well, dedicated is not the over

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Speaker 1: the road market, you know, one might lead the other.

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Speaker 1: So I guess you know what's from your vantage point,

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Speaker 1: what would you say the current state of the truckload

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Speaker 1: the trucking market is right now.

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Speaker 3: Sure yeah, sure, and well and to you talk about

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Speaker 3: the difference between dedicated and and some of the truckload

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Speaker 3: assets that are out there, and for us, the decision

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Speaker 3: of where we were going to operate is has been

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Speaker 3: pretty intentional and we've actually over time, you know, taken

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Speaker 3: hard looks at saying, should we run some of these

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Speaker 3: truckload networks and have this you know, capacity out there

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Speaker 3: that that's much more transactional. I mean, the whole pricing

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Speaker 3: and the yield maximization on how you run those fleets

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Speaker 3: is very different from dedicated and so we've just chosen

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Speaker 3: actually just to not play in the truckload market with

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Speaker 3: our assets. Now, between managed transportation and brokerage, we have

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Speaker 3: a lot of carrier relationships where it is more of

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Speaker 3: the spot market, more of kind of the short term,

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Speaker 3: less committed kind of contract rates, and so we definitely

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Speaker 3: give our customers the access to those kind of assets,

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Speaker 3: and there's a time and place for those and when

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Speaker 3: we build and design a dedicated fleet, there's typically as

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Speaker 3: you look at a network, there is a spot for

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Speaker 3: dedicated fleets to operate, and there's also a lot of

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Speaker 3: lanes and types of freight and more volatile or less

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Speaker 3: consistent or different service requirements where we bring in h

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Speaker 3: third you know, third party truckload carriers, you know, to

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Speaker 3: to move that kind of freight. So I think there's

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Speaker 3: a right place for all of it. And you mentioned

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Speaker 3: you know, dedicated right now, it's a great place to be.

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Speaker 3: But in twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two, I

224
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Speaker 3: think everyone who had spot rate and uncommitted assets was

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Speaker 3: really really happy about it. And because they they flew

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Speaker 3: you know, very high during that very tight period.

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Speaker 2: And so we didn't and we and we won't and

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Speaker 2: we don't.

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Speaker 3: But that's the choice we've made strategically to say we're

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Speaker 3: not we're not going to live in that world with

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Speaker 3: our own assets. We're going to use our managed transportation

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Speaker 3: and our broker's businesses to to to go to the

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Speaker 3: market and get the more transactional kind of capacity. And

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Speaker 3: so that for us, strategically, you know, we didn't fly

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Speaker 3: as high as some of the others would have during

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Speaker 3: that really tight market. Now y works, and the customers

237
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,640
Speaker 3: are right and the relationships are right. As things have

238
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Speaker 3: really slowed down over these last two years, and they

239
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,920
Speaker 3: have slowed down really significantly. We're all working with our

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Speaker 3: shippers to confront the rising costs that certainly our industry

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Speaker 3: has seen. And so that's that's I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: what we're all doing right now. But we also hope

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Speaker 3: to not falls as low as as what that transactional

244
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Speaker 3: freight and capacity has done. And certainly we've seen the

245
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,760
Speaker 3: mean the quarter over quarter year over year declines is

246
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Speaker 3: the is the numbers have come out, And I suppose

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Speaker 3: I'd say we we whatever whatever market we're in and

248
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Speaker 3: service line we're in, we prefer to see a healthy

249
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Speaker 3: freight market and it just hasn't been that healthy lately

250
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Speaker 3: because of all of the additional capacity that came in

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Speaker 3: during the supply chain that I don't know that any

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Speaker 3: of us have seen in our lifetimes, that occurred during

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Speaker 3: the pandemic, and there's just been continued reverberations and consequences

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Speaker 3: from from what occurred then. And I still and I

255
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Speaker 3: think the length of this freight recession that we've been

256
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Speaker 3: in is also partially a result of how good things

257
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Speaker 3: were a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 1: Right, are you seeing any signs that are giving you, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, some some optimistic thoughts about you know, pricing

260
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,920
Speaker 1: over the coming months.

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00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,880
Speaker 3: You know, and so for us, you know, typically we're

262
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Speaker 3: sitting in the seat of the shipper when we're thinking

263
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Speaker 3: about rates and pricing because we're really talking about the

264
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,520
Speaker 3: truckload market and either the annual contracts or the short

265
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,160
Speaker 3: term spot rates and things like that from a from

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Speaker 3: a dedicated side and the customers we serve there, it's

267
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,520
Speaker 3: I mean, typically, or I would say generally across most industries,

268
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Speaker 3: we are working together how we run more efficiently, how

269
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Speaker 3: we take costs out because no one we don't see

270
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:12,640
Speaker 3: volumes in you know, any industries that are that haven't

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Speaker 3: declined or have been flat. It's certainly since where we

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Speaker 3: were in in the pandemic a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 3: So we're we're working really with a lot of customers

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Speaker 3: to say, let's let's maximize the efficiency of this fleet.

275
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Speaker 3: Let's look at how your business is running now, what

276
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,440
Speaker 3: your volumes are looking like, what your forecasts are looking like,

277
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Speaker 3: so that we can adjust and serve you in the

278
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,600
Speaker 3: ways that you need to be served, so you can

279
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Speaker 3: run your business successfully given the macro on the way

280
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Speaker 3: that we're in now. So in terms of optimism, and

281
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Speaker 3: it's hard to have a crystal ball on where things

282
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 3: were going will go, if you know, for us, it's

283
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,440
Speaker 3: just been you know, kind of a decline and flat

284
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Speaker 3: in our dedicated business. And we're doing a lot of

285
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Speaker 3: this work, and certainly we're optimistic that things will get

286
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,439
Speaker 3: better and and there'll be some equilibrium in the market

287
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,280
Speaker 3: and more probably more capacity does need to exit. I

288
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:14,000
Speaker 3: think there's some folks that have held on and and

289
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,840
Speaker 3: you know, maybe we get through one more year, one

290
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:21,680
Speaker 3: more peak season, and and uh and some additional capacities

291
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,119
Speaker 3: you know that aren't running really well and probably hurting

292
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 3: some of those truckload and spot rates that we've heard

293
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,360
Speaker 3: so much about and seen so much of to help

294
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,400
Speaker 3: those cover the cost of actually moving the frame.

295
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 1: Right, when you talk about, like you know, working with

296
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:41,040
Speaker 1: the shippers to increase the efficiency of the dedicated fleet,

297
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,360
Speaker 1: what's some like low hanging fruit that you guys can

298
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,000
Speaker 1: do to make that happen.

299
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 3: Which, well, sure, I mean that the what you actually

300
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,000
Speaker 3: put in a trailer makes a very big difference or

301
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,320
Speaker 3: on a trailer, right, So I mean the the during

302
00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,439
Speaker 3: the pandemic and when there was such a demas and

303
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:05,439
Speaker 3: for so many different types of physical goods, you know,

304
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,880
Speaker 3: the need to get them there now from a customer standpoint,

305
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:16,360
Speaker 3: in some cases, from the need to optimize the trailer,

306
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,399
Speaker 3: optimize the costs. So there's there's been a lot of

307
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,600
Speaker 3: there is a decent amount of low hanging fruit there,

308
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,200
Speaker 3: and you just see that pendulum swing as the as

309
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 3: the economy swings. Are our customers are all competing in

310
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Speaker 3: their own industries and competing for for sales and for

311
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 3: the customers of their own and we've just seen the

312
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 3: pendulum swing more given a lot of the inflation that's

313
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Speaker 3: occurred in the economy. Two, we've got to we've got

314
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,320
Speaker 3: to compete more on price. So we're we're doing whatever

315
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 3: we can to help our customers do that. In some cases,

316
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,720
Speaker 3: it's it's how you run the lanes, how you run

317
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,720
Speaker 3: the fleet, how many trucks you have. But certainly, and

318
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,040
Speaker 3: this is even where our managed transportation comes in, and

319
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,679
Speaker 3: how do you optimize and maximize the amount of freight

320
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,919
Speaker 3: that you're moving, you know, in a lot of cases

321
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 3: on the outbound and then what's going on with the

322
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,680
Speaker 3: with the truck as it comes back to in many

323
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,440
Speaker 3: cases the same domicile. You know, how are we most

324
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:21,480
Speaker 3: efficiently using what otherwise would be waste unless we find

325
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 3: a way to link that truck up with some other freight,

326
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,080
Speaker 3: which in some cases is more easily done than others,

327
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Speaker 3: depending on the customer and the length the haul and

328
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,119
Speaker 3: the type of route and the service requirements on the

329
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,320
Speaker 3: outbound side. But you know, those are all areas that

330
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,160
Speaker 3: we're working on right now.

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Speaker 1: And if I understand you correctly on the dedicated side,

332
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,360
Speaker 1: it sounds like you're having some rate pressures when you're

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00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,880
Speaker 1: renegotiating these contracts, but you're trying to offset those rate

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00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 1: pressures with efficiency gains to kind of keep the margins

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00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,360
Speaker 1: where they were. Is am I hearing that right?

336
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 2: I think that's a feah. I think that's a pair statement.

337
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,400
Speaker 3: And certainly, you know, across all the customer spectrum there's

338
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,400
Speaker 3: different levels and intensity. I mean, some are some are

339
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,399
Speaker 3: in the situation where they're saying, look, we need to

340
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 3: take we have a goal you know, of X million

341
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 3: dollars comes out of our supply chain costs this year.

342
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 2: How can you help us do it? Those conversations are usually.

343
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,399
Speaker 3: The most constructive because then we're sitting at the table

344
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 3: together talking about some of those areas of low hanging fruit.

345
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 3: And it's absolutely our job as a service provider, you know,

346
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:33,760
Speaker 3: on the on the dedicated side in this case, to adjust,

347
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:39,160
Speaker 3: to be flexible, to move along with with the customers

348
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,640
Speaker 3: so that they can successfully run their business even though

349
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 3: volumes might have dropped or you know, costs have risen.

350
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 3: If a dedicated fleet made sense to them in a

351
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 3: good market, it probably still makes sense in a down market.

352
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 3: But it's how do we run it more efficiently and

353
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,159
Speaker 3: then adjust it to meet the needs.

354
00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 2: Of their business.

355
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 3: And it's not really just smil are on the managed

356
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 3: transportation side and the value added warehousing side, how do

357
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 3: we work through declining or in some cases or flat

358
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 3: volumes to adjust and optimized regardless of what the contract says.

359
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,359
Speaker 3: But typically you know, we have flexible contracts, we'll work together.

360
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,400
Speaker 3: Our view is long term with our customers. With most

361
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,640
Speaker 3: we've been through tight cycles, we've been through down cycles,

362
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,479
Speaker 3: we've been through great recessions, we've been through pandemics, and

363
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 3: so our view is really long term, how do we

364
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 3: help you run your business successfully? And it's absolutely being

365
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,119
Speaker 3: flexible and adjusting to the to the to the types

366
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 3: of demand signals that they're getting.

367
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 2: In their own business.

368
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned earlier capacity. There's too much capacity

369
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 1: in the trucking market. You know, why do you think

370
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,919
Speaker 1: it's been so slow to come out of the market.

371
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 3: Yes, it has been slow to come out, And I

372
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 3: do think Lee it's the carriers came into this elongated

373
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 3: freight recession after a period of extraordinary tightness and really

374
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 3: extraordinary revenues, volumes, profitabilities. So my sense is that the

375
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 3: carriers across the spectrum, regardless of their size, came into

376
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 3: the freight recession about as well as they could have

377
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 3: financially hoped to do. And it's not too distant a

378
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 3: memory for many of them to say, boy, things were

379
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 3: really really good a couple of years ago. You know,

380
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,199
Speaker 3: maybe if I hold on a little longer, you know,

381
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 3: things will turn around. No one wants to No one

382
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 3: wants to turn into frog decreased the size, although I'm

383
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 3: sure many of us have done it at all sizes

384
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 3: in in the last couple of years. That's a difficult

385
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 3: decision for folks, and they've done well in just the

386
00:22:58,880 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 3: last couple of years.

387
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: So I I think it.

388
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 3: I think it has something to do with with how

389
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 3: good things were a couple of years ago, and.

390
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: Then, uh, you know, you mentioned peak season earlier. What

391
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 1: are your customers telling you about seasonal demand going into

392
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 1: the holiday season.

393
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 3: I think our I think our retailers and groceries are

394
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 3: optimistic and there's some some signals. You know, I'm not

395
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 3: an economist, but you watch the job market and you

396
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 3: watch the consumer, and so I think there's some glimmers

397
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 3: of hope there that there will be some uh some

398
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 3: increased demand during the peak season, you know, the manufacturing

399
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 3: side and some of the industrial side is don't I

400
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 3: think not been as you know, not been as optimistic.

401
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 3: We've seen you know, longer plant shutdowns than then in

402
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 3: prior years, for instance in some areas, and so, but

403
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: retail and grocery, I mean, is one area where you know,

404
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 3: I tend to be countercyclical and we're optimistic along with

405
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 3: the carriers in or the shippers and in those industries.

406
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, on the manufacturing side, the ism has been in

407
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 1: contraction territory for quite some time. Don't quote me on this,

408
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: but I think since October of twenty twenty two, it's

409
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: only been in expansion territory one. So that's not necessarily

410
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: a good sign for manufacturing demand.

411
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 3: I'm right, and I think we're seeing that generally in

412
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 3: industries that serve those manufacturers or the manufacturers themselves.

413
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: So talk about your fleet. I think you mentioned is

414
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: the five thousand trucks.

415
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 2: That you have a little over four thousand, okay.

416
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: And what's the average age of your fleet, what's the

417
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: average age of your trailers. What's a typical life cycle

418
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: of a truck look like within your network?

419
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 2: Sure?

420
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know we've talked about the variety of

421
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 3: geographies that are assets operating in, and so that can

422
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 3: really have a pretty market impact, especially on the trailer

423
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 3: side tractor side. You know, we're for us certainly during

424
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 3: the pandemic, we saw our average tractor life increase is

425
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 3: probably up around forty months average life. We're back down

426
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 3: to thirty two or less, so maybe about two and

427
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 3: a half years average age. So if a truck's getting

428
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 3: to five years old, it's ready to get out of

429
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 3: our fleet and get sold and will replace it. So

430
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: relatively new and we've been we've been generally pleased with

431
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 3: the new equipment coming in in terms of fuel efficiency, safety,

432
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 3: We've done a whole lot of investment in safety technology

433
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 3: on the trucks may have really continues to make a

434
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: significant impact for us. But that's about the That's about

435
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: the average. I can give a general average on on

436
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 3: tractor like trailer life. It depends on the industry. I mean,

437
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 3: we're in so many different industries. Some are done after

438
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 3: seven years given the duty cycles, and some in the

439
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 3: industrial gas industry might They're not as old as I am,

440
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 3: but they're probably got a couple of decades under their

441
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 3: belt after.

442
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 2: Being rebuilt and rehabbed.

443
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 3: And those vessels are kept in service for a long

444
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 3: time given how expensive they are on the front.

445
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: End, and because your network is predominantly dedicated with really

446
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: no over the road business or most of your trucks

447
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: daycabs or are they sleepers? But what kind of trucks?

448
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: Is there a specific do you guys just go with

449
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: one manufacturer? Do you have used multiple manufacturers?

450
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 3: We are probably a maybe a sixty to forty split

451
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: on the daycab side. We always have more sleepers than

452
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 3: I think we would, but we just have some some

453
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 3: run some fleets where you know the driver might be

454
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 3: out one or two nights a week, depending on what

455
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 3: the network looks like. And some of our larger customers

456
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 3: are in that situation, so that it's so those fleets

457
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 3: end up being predominantly sleepers, which.

458
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 2: Gets us, you know, to near fifty to fifty. So

459
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 2: that's kind of the breakdown.

460
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 3: In terms of manufacturers, we've OEMs. We've we've been predominantly

461
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: buying from a single manufacturers, so the fleet is generally

462
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 3: of one make, and at the same time, it's always

463
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 3: good to understand what else is happening. That's a pretty

464
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 3: competitive industry and a lot of good product out there,

465
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 3: so we keep you know, we might be ten to

466
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 3: fifteen percent in one or two other makes beyond our

467
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 3: primary right now.

468
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: And trucking fleets like to keep it a couple OEMs

469
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: just to keep maintenance costs low or right.

470
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 3: It's it's absolutely a good thing to be able to

471
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 3: train train your people in one make and you know,

472
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 3: from an inventory and and even just know how and

473
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 3: capability standpoint. And so we've had a great relationship with

474
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 3: our primary and that's why the percentage that we are

475
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 3: and we may I would I would guess that that

476
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 3: percentage is higher than a lot of other a lot

477
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 3: of other fleets out there, but the relationship has been great.

478
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: The service has been very good. And you know, we

479
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 3: find when you work with people who have a similar

480
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 3: view to how you run a business and a relationship

481
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 3: and a partnership, that's that's been an important part of

482
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 3: why we are as high as we are.

483
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: Right and you know, keeping on the on the equipment track.

484
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty seven, there's a new EPA emission standards

485
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: that trying companies, trucking OEMs and trucking companies are going

486
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: to have to deal with. Do you have any thoughts

487
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: on it? I know it's kind of far out, you know,

488
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: Do you guys have any thoughts in terms of, you know,

489
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: what it might cost you? Are you going to start

490
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: pre buying ahead of time so you know you can

491
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: have the older technology for longer.

492
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably not far enough out.

493
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,959
Speaker 3: And you know, I think anyone who looks, you know,

494
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 3: really pragmatically at the new technology that is out there

495
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 3: to go to zero emission vehicles, we're just too early

496
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 3: on the cycle and the curve of maturity to mandate

497
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 3: that we're going to put appreciable percentages of our fleets

498
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 3: in these new technologies. And you know, there's talking about

499
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 3: hydrogen things like that, but those are so so new.

500
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 3: There may be promise there, but there's certainly promise in

501
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 3: other technol analogies beyond battery electric. And those of us

502
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 3: who've run and tested these trucks know how limited they

503
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 3: are compared to what a diesel truck can do, even

504
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 3: on regional fleets like ours that aren't you know, nationwide

505
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 3: kind of long hauled fleets. So we're we're deeply concerned

506
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 3: about the mandate. And it's not that it's not that

507
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 3: folks like me don't want to run as clean uh

508
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 3: an operation and a company as possible, but it's what

509
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 3: are the what are the real consequences if we if

510
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 3: we go down this path to where there's only one

511
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 3: type of technology to reduce emissions that's really that's close,

512
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 3: and it's the battery electric. That's the only one I

513
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 3: think anyone would choose to try to meet these mand aids.

514
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 3: And yet that the infrastructure. I mean, there's a story,

515
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: your story of how difficult it is to get the

516
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 3: charging infrastructure built, not just the expense of a charger,

517
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 3: which are going to be expensive, but.

518
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: All of the.

519
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 3: Electrical interconnections and piping to move that many electrons every

520
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 3: single day into that many batteries. I mean, these fleets

521
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 3: are going to run, are going to require as much

522
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 3: electricity as the small cities where many of our operations

523
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 3: are domiciled, and they're not going to be able to

524
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 3: handle the demand. So you look at that, and then

525
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 3: you look at the length of haul and the range

526
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 3: anxiety around if it's cold one day, how far can

527
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 3: I go? Can I do my normal run? When am

528
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 3: I going to have to stop? How long is it

529
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 3: going to take me to charge? Certainly it's going to

530
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: be a lot longer than what it takes to fuel

531
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: a diesel truck. And so you look at the consequences

532
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 3: of those challenges and what they do to the efficiency

533
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 3: of an industry that's already very competitive. The margins aren't

534
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 3: aren't amazingly high in our industry because it is so competitive,

535
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 3: and so if if this burden, which which it will

536
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: fall on many of the carriers who move into these assets,

537
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 3: it's a it's going to be a major, major challenge,

538
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 3: and so we we are we aren't quite concerned about it.

539
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there there's no real number out there,

540
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: but the twenty twenty seven EPA mission rules aren't going

541
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: to effect to obviously lower emissions. You know, I've read

542
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: in some places that it could cost up to thirty

543
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: thousand dollars more per per tractor for that on the

544
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: electric side, are.

545
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: You it's a lot more than that.

546
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's it's two or three x the

547
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 3: pricing we've seen for new electric trucks is is two

548
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 3: or three times a diesel truck.

549
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: Right, right, But the OEMs are are creating diesel trucks

550
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: to meet the emission standards, and from what I understand,

551
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: those new those new trucks.

552
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: Oh I see, Oh sorry that yeah, to meet the

553
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 3: head of the mandates on the on.

554
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: The side, Yeah, yeah.

555
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 3: That's much more manageable. It's a technology we know. No

556
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 3: one loves to pay that much more for a truck,

557
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 3: and the competitive marketplace is going to have to have

558
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 3: to uh kind of ensure that that's the right number.

559
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 3: But it's but the diesel technology is one we know,

560
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 3: it's proven, we know how to maintain it, we know

561
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 3: how far it's gonna it's gonna run. But yeah, so

562
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 3: I sorry, misunderstood your question there about the increased cost

563
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 3: on the diesel side to meet the interim requirements.

564
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: So you know, Obviously, trucks are important in trucking, so

565
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: we're drivers probably more important than the trucks themselves. You know,

566
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: I always like to talk about a driver shortage. Some

567
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: people think I'm nuts, but and I'm assuming because your

568
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: fleet's mostly dedicated, your turnover is probably not that bad

569
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: relative to over the road truckers. Could you talk about,

570
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: you know, what's it like hiring a driver today versus

571
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: you know, maybe not so much in the pandemic, but

572
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: before the pandemic.

573
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 3: Sure, it's definitely easier to hire drivers today. I mean,

574
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 3: just given what we've seen in the market and the

575
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 3: excess capacity, and so.

576
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 2: I think there's there's probably a.

577
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,479
Speaker 3: Lot of drivers out there, and we've seen some during

578
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 3: the pandemic. He said, Hey, I'm going to go out

579
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 3: on my own. I'm going to get a truck and

580
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 3: you know, I'll run my own business. And and now

581
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 3: that's a tough place to be given the costs that

582
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 3: the trucks, even US trucks for during the pandemic, and

583
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 3: the challenges of maintaining and some of the issues that

584
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,439
Speaker 3: that some of the smaller firms run into. So we've

585
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 3: seen it it's easier to hire drivers, right now that

586
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 3: it's been in a while, and you're correct lead that

587
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 3: our turnover is generally much less than the truckload segment.

588
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 3: Voluntary turnover for US has been below twenty percent in

589
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 3: recent months here on an annualized basis. That's where we

590
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 3: like to see it. And as I look over, you know,

591
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 3: the past decade plus, that's that's you know, a high

592
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 3: water mark for us, and we were we weren't quite

593
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 3: double that during during twenty twenty one, but that was

594
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 3: definitely a period where there was a lot of movement,

595
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 3: a lot of turnover, and you know, probably a lot

596
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 3: of competition for drivers and certainly their rates in our

597
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 3: fleet and on wages in our fleet and others have

598
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 3: gone up for drivers in the past several years. And

599
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 3: if you see the work these men and women, do

600
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 3: you know, I've I'm not sure that's a terrible thing

601
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 3: that we've seen some wage and escalation for them, but

602
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 3: in terms of recruitment, definitely easier right now. But we

603
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 3: try to build a company when we were still the

604
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 3: company that was founded by our first driver, you know,

605
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 3: who slept in a tent to get this business on

606
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 3: its feet, and the professional driver and the role in

607
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 3: our economy for our country is something that we have

608
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 3: a whole lot of respect for. So a lot of

609
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 3: our culture is about being a great place to work,

610
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 3: being a great family business, taking care of people, pushing

611
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 3: people to be their very best, but also wanting to

612
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 3: have a great career for them in whatever role they have.

613
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 3: Certainly the eighty percent plus of our employees are professional drivers,

614
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 3: So we try to be the kind of company from

615
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 3: a culture standpo at point that is attractive to drivers,

616
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 3: and then the kind of fleets we build. We do

617
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 3: work with customers a lot because we see the lanes

618
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 3: or the part to the business that are more difficult

619
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 3: to hire drivers. So many times these days it's about

620
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 3: the schedule as much or more than the wage, and

621
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 3: so can we work with the customer to say, hey,

622
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 3: we know this freight needs to move from point A

623
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 3: to point B at this time, but is there a

624
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 3: different way we can do it to build and design

625
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 3: a more livable job for the driver that's going to

626
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 3: move the freight.

627
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: And so we've had a lot of success there.

628
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 3: I think it's some of the reasons we've grown with

629
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 3: certain customers because they've seen how we do that, and

630
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 3: from a people's standpoint, they share the same desire for

631
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 3: the men and women moving their products, so they that's

632
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 3: an appeal to them. And then the other thing I'd

633
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 3: mentioned from a recruiting standpoint is we're I think there's

634
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 3: a few others in that, but we were one of

635
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 3: the very first approve for the safe Driver Apprenticeship pilot.

636
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 3: So this is under twenty one year old interstate CDL

637
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,919
Speaker 3: drivers that go through a period of hours of apprenticeship

638
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 3: to get into our industry. And although there were some

639
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 3: reasons that initial uptake wasn't great from a lot of

640
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 3: other carriers, but I think the opportunity for our industry

641
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 3: to go into the high schools and talk to young

642
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 3: people at a time when they're thinking about the financial

643
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 3: burdens potentially of college, they're thinking about what they might

644
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 3: do when they graduate, and the opportunity to come into

645
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 3: our industry at that age and earn the type of

646
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 3: wages that drivers make, do it in a safe way,

647
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 3: and sure there's great training around it, which we're very

648
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 3: committed to deliver, is something that could be a significant

649
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 3: change for our industry in terms of the driver shortage.

650
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 2: Piece that you mentioned, because it does seem like that.

651
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: We go through these periods where you just can't find

652
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 2: enough folks who want to be a professional driver. So

653
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: if we can have to give some of the opportunity

654
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 2: to make the kind of money they make as a

655
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 2: driver without the burdens and the financial risk of taking

656
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 2: on debt to get a four year degree, if they

657
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: don't know what that four year degree is going to

658
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 2: do from them, so why not give them a great option?

659
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 2: And we're doing that.

660
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 3: Our first frentice has gone through all the hours of driving.

661
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 3: We do a lot of tracking and scorecards around driver

662
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 3: safety and around how well they're driving on the road.

663
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 3: And this our first through is one of our very

664
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 3: best scored drivers. So he's doing everything right and he's

665
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 3: got a great opportunity for a great career with us

666
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 3: zero debt, and you start making those kind of of

667
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: wages in your eighteen to early twenties and it can

668
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 3: be a very very good career and a very good living.

669
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, And for those that don't know, there's some federal

670
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: regulations that don't allow people to do a truck driver

671
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 1: with CDL to do interstate to drive between states unless

672
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: they're twenty one years or older. So you know, as

673
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: you mentioned, Ben, when someone's thinking about getting into a trade,

674
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: a lot of people do not look at trucking because

675
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 1: they're very limited on what and where they can drive.

676
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: And that could you know, by the time there are

677
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: twenty one, a lot of these people might have found

678
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: a trade already, whether you know, you know, whatever that

679
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: trade might be. So this is a way to, I guess,

680
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: get people into the industry at an earlier age. And

681
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: it looks like they're trying to do it in a

682
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: safe manner, which is good. Good luck to that trainee

683
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: that you have.

684
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:41,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's exactly right.

685
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 3: And we've because of that regulation you mentioned to drive

686
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 3: interstate and you have to be over twenty one, we've

687
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 3: kind of required that professional driving career is your second

688
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 3: choice or the thing you'll decide to do later. So

689
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 3: it's just as you say, and there's just no reason

690
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 3: for it. The reason has always been around safety. In

691
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 3: one of our senators here from Iowa shared with me

692
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 3: that she commanded eighteen year olds in combat overseas and

693
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 3: talked about the decision making and the right people and

694
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 3: the right eighteen to twenty year olds can serve our

695
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: country and combat and that kind of made me think

696
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 3: twice about it's clearly a very safety sensitive role as

697
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 3: a driver. But one thing that we've done a lot,

698
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 3: as I mentioned, with safety technology on our trucks, the

699
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 3: ability to observe events, to coach, to improve drivers, to

700
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 3: ensure that if there's something unsafe happening in the truck

701
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 3: that we can be on it is soon faster than

702
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 3: we've ever been before. So those are some of the

703
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 3: changes in the technology that honestly have made me ready

704
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 3: to have under twenty one year olds in our trucks.

705
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 3: Prior to that, I was not sure how I felt

706
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 3: about it. But we've done so much more with our

707
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 3: ability to observe and coach and train, so we're ready

708
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 3: to look at this and you know, very very early

709
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 3: returns they have been incredibly.

710
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: Positive, fantastic. So, Ben, how did you get into the

711
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: transportation industry?

712
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 2: You were?

713
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: It looks like you were an investment bank or a lawyer.

714
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: It's at a natural evolution, one might think, So how

715
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: did you get into the trucking.

716
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 2: You're right exactly.

717
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 3: I think just the natural evolution from investment banking to

718
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: transportation logistics. I've loved every every job I've had, and

719
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 3: the you know, the immediate prior one, as you mentioned,

720
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 3: was with William Blair in Chicago. Loved the team, loved

721
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 3: the work, very exciting work. But this opportunity came up

722
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 3: and you know, a different city, a different type of companies,

723
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 3: certainly a very different industry. But the things that appealed

724
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,919
Speaker 3: to me were this this family business element. There's something unique.

725
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 2: About that that that.

726
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 3: Really appealed to me, The ability to come in and

727
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 3: make a significant impact on the culture of a company.

728
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 3: What I don't think I've fully realized when I came

729
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 3: to Ruan was I'd been in professional services, in investment banking,

730
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 3: in law, just a short stint in consulting, and I

731
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 3: didn't appreciate in our business the opportunity that there's a

732
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 3: significant level of the same kind of professional services. We

733
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 3: sit alongside of our customers and become part of their

734
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 3: operations and help them execute and then we work on

735
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 3: these projects to improve their businesses and their companies. So

736
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:42,280
Speaker 3: the way in was recruitment to come to this family

737
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 3: business in a different industry, one that I didn't know

738
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 3: a whole lot about, but one that I've learned is

739
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 3: really rewarding.

740
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 2: It's tough. Not every day as easy.

741
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of our manufacturing floor, the highways

742
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 3: and byways of the public roadways in the United States

743
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 3: can be a challenging environment. But the ability and the

744
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 3: pride to work with some great, great customers and help

745
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 3: them move our nation's economy is something that was shared

746
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 3: with me on my way in that that really can

747
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 3: be very fulfilling and rewarding, and it absolutely has.

748
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: That's fantastic. You read a book recently, whether it's on

749
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: transportation or leadership that you know you kind of took

750
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: a lot away from.

751
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 3: Sure, well you know I would, and I don't even

752
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 3: know if the books are available for sale, but the

753
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 3: in for the long Haul is the is the biography

754
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 3: of our founder, John Roland Senior. I'll have to make

755
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 3: sure I send you one of those, but that is

756
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 3: one that I pick up a fair bit because you know,

757
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 3: we're a much different company than we were back when

758
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 3: we were founded, but there are these values of and

759
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 3: the history of what our company is and what we

760
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 3: stand for that are still very very real in terms

761
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 3: of our culture today. And I'll tell you another one though,

762
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 3: and it's not recent, but it's Jim Collins. Good to

763
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,919
Speaker 3: Great is a book that I still think about a lot.

764
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 3: And I don't know if we just picked the type

765
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 3: of leadership styles that seem to most match our own

766
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 3: profiles or our desired profiles, but his and it's a

767
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 3: good bit of academic study and research done in that

768
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 3: leadership book about these companies that have really turned around

769
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 3: or or performed at very very high levels. And so

770
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 3: that one, to me is still a and i've I mean, gosh,

771
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 3: it's probably been almost twenty years since I read that book.

772
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 3: But the idea of level five leaders this combination of humility.

773
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 3: We're not a big ego shop here. Leaders with outsized

774
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 3: egos don't don't fit in our culture and don't end

775
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 3: up lasting very long. So this blend of humility and

776
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 3: then this grit and resolve in terms of how we

777
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 3: go after our goals and achieve our mission and seek

778
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 3: to serve our customers as one that's always resonated with me.

779
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 3: So I can't tell you that that's a very recent read,

780
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 3: but it's certainly worth a read because I think it

781
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 3: stood the test of time, and I think that style

782
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 3: of leadership certainly works well in our industry for all

783
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 3: of the people and the families that rely on on

784
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 3: ruan for a paycheck and a livelihood and a career.

785
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:38,879
Speaker 3: The type of leaders who spend a lot of time

786
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: thinking about what's best for them, how we operate this

787
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 3: business in not just the next two quarters, but the

788
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 3: next two decades.

789
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 2: Is that's where I spend a lot of time thinking, Well.

790
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: That's all the time we have today, Ben, and I

791
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: really want to thank you for your time and insights today.

792
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 2: My pleasure. Thanks for having me. I look forward to

793
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 2: catching up with you again.

794
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: Soonainly, absolutely, and I also want to thank you for

795
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: tuning in. If you liked the episode, please subscribe and

796
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: leave a review. We've lined up a number of great

797
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: guests for the podcast. Check back to hear conversations with

798
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: C suite executives, shippers, regulators, and decision makers within the

799
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: freight markets. Also, if you have an idea for a

800
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: future episode or just want to talk transports, please hit

801
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: me up on the terminal, on LinkedIn or on Twitter

802
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: at logistics Lee. Thanks a lot, everyone, Take care,