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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Before we get started, let's talk about Pushkin Plus.

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Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a subscription podcast program available on Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Members will get access to exclusive bonus content like my

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Speaker 1: weekly bookmarks, where I talk about how I got a

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Speaker 1: book agent and what I'm watching on TV that week.

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Speaker 1: You'll get uninterrupted listening to many of your favorite podcasts

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Speaker 1: like Revisionist History, Cautionary Tales, and The Happiness Lab. Sign

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Speaker 1: up for Pushkin Plus on the show page in Apple

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Speaker 1: podcast or at pushkin dot com. I wrote the book

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Speaker 1: because I had just an existential crisis of meaning after

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Speaker 1: Brianna Taylor, Ahmad Aubrey, George Floyd the Elections. That's the

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Speaker 1: singular voice of Viola Davis, actor, producer, and author, talking

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Speaker 1: about her new memoir Finding Me. It was just a

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Speaker 1: real crisis of meaning. And when you have a crisis

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Speaker 1: of meaning, what ritual? What tool do you have to

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Speaker 1: find it? For Viola, that tool is writing. It's what

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Speaker 1: she uses to assign meaning to the things happening in

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Speaker 1: the world and in her own life. And Finding Me,

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Speaker 1: Viola writes about who she is now and how hard

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Speaker 1: she fought to become that person. Viola grew up to

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Speaker 1: be a phenomenal actor whose on screen performances have captivated

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Speaker 1: us for years. Won an Academy Award for her character

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Speaker 1: Rose Maxon in the film adaptation of August Wilson's play

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Speaker 1: Been Say and How to Get Away with Murder. She

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Speaker 1: took our breath away as Annalie's key in That was

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Speaker 1: a role Viola set helped her tap into some truths

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Speaker 1: about herself. Welcome to Well Read Black Girl, the literary

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Speaker 1: kickback you didn't even know you needed. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Glory Adam. All season long, I've been speaking with writers

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Speaker 1: and thinkers about their craft, their journey, and how they

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Speaker 1: showed up in the world. And in our season finale,

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Speaker 1: I speak with the one and only Viola Davis on

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Speaker 1: how she and her sisters found salvation in literature and

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Speaker 1: the childhood memory that shaped her outlook on life. And

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Speaker 1: before we began, just to know Miss Davis and I

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Speaker 1: go deep and we get real. Over the course of

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Speaker 1: her life, her career, and her incredible journe Miss Davis

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Speaker 1: has been called many things, some of them violent and harmful,

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Speaker 1: which you will hear her say in this episode, unbeat,

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Speaker 1: Can I call you Viola? Is that is that Okay, absolutely, please, okay,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here, for writing this

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Speaker 1: amazing book. It is just so extraordinary and I heard

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Speaker 1: it in your voice. I heard every single word in

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Speaker 1: your beautiful voice. Wonderful. So we like to start the

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Speaker 1: podcast from the very beginning. How did reading and writing

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Speaker 1: show up in your childhood? It showed up as a necessity.

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Speaker 1: I read and I wrote to escape all the time.

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Speaker 1: I would, you know, leave my school in kindergarten at

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Speaker 1: the end of the school day, and I'd walk to

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Speaker 1: the library and I'd stay at the library until it

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Speaker 1: got dark, and then I would walk home. Sometimes I

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Speaker 1: would run home because I would be scared when I

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Speaker 1: was passing by Jenks Park, because I had a huge

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Speaker 1: tower that looked really ominous at night. But I stayed

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Speaker 1: until it was dark. But I stayed at the library

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Speaker 1: because I love the smell of the books, and I

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Speaker 1: love being transported into even nonsensical worlds, and it gave

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Speaker 1: me a relief from my world. And it was also

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Speaker 1: a place that I can reinvent myself and have fun

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Speaker 1: like the other characters in the book. The children's section

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Speaker 1: of the library, it was in the basement with these big,

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Speaker 1: colorful bean bags and toys and all the books. It's

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Speaker 1: just it was Willy Wonka, and I wrote to relieve

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Speaker 1: my mind. Whatever stories I had, I just would regurgitate

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Speaker 1: on the page. I would create characters that I always

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Speaker 1: wanted to be. It sparked the powerful, powerful strength and

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Speaker 1: aspect of imagination with me, and I did it as

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Speaker 1: much as I could. I also enjoyed the conversations and

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Speaker 1: just the interactions you have with your sisters. I am

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Speaker 1: a big sister, I'm the oldest, and I did so

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Speaker 1: much go into the library and reading stories to my brother,

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Speaker 1: and I was wonderful to witness that engagement and that

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Speaker 1: level of just intimacy that you have. How did your

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Speaker 1: relationship with your sister's influence your love of reading? How

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Speaker 1: did that all come together? Well, it was really my

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Speaker 1: sister Diane who sparked the joy of reading. Because the

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Speaker 1: first thing she said was, you have to figure out

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Speaker 1: what you want to do with your life if you

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Speaker 1: don't want to be poor like this, and so her

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Speaker 1: way was education. And we got this little desk that

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Speaker 1: we purchased at Salvation Army at the time, and I

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Speaker 1: would sit in there and every time she would come

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Speaker 1: back from school because she was the oldest. She would

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Speaker 1: teach us what she had learned that day, and I

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Speaker 1: mean she would lean in, I mean seriously lean in

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Speaker 1: with the multiplication table, with reading, with writing, I mean everything.

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Speaker 1: And she really sparked it for me and for my

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Speaker 1: sister Nied and my sister Dolores. My sister Danielle came later,

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Speaker 1: and we knew that that was the portal, the portal

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Speaker 1: to choices, the portal to possibilities, and it gave us

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Speaker 1: something to do. And also with my sisters, it was

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Speaker 1: a safe space because I knew they loved me. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you know, they were the first people that gave you

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Speaker 1: unconditional love and support and saw your mess. You know,

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Speaker 1: we all dreamed together, and we all went the bed together.

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Speaker 1: You know. Was there an author that really spoke to

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Speaker 1: you when you were in the library, that like you

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Speaker 1: knew immediately that, okay, this is a voice or a

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Speaker 1: story that I connect with immediately. Oh gosh. I mean,

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Speaker 1: when I was just five, the writer that spoke to

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Speaker 1: me was doctor Seuss and only because it was nonsensical

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Speaker 1: and it felt like that was the only world that

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Speaker 1: I got an immediate invite too in my brain because

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Speaker 1: it was nonsensical. And at that time, you know, this

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Speaker 1: is in nineteen sixty nine, nineteen seventy. The other stories

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Speaker 1: was see Jane, See Jane Run. Jane has a dog,

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Speaker 1: and Jane was always blonde with little pigtails, with the

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Speaker 1: little brown dog and the picket fence. And I didn't

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Speaker 1: have any way into that. I just didn't. I would

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Speaker 1: try to because I wanted to be Jane until I

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Speaker 1: realized I'm not Jane. And then as I continued to

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Speaker 1: go to the library and read, then it was Judy

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Speaker 1: Bloom The Bopsy Twins, and then it turned into Richard

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Speaker 1: Wright when it went from The Bopsy Trends to Claude

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Speaker 1: Brown and Richard Right, So there you go. I love

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Speaker 1: to hear just the transformation of the things that just

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Speaker 1: pull your young imagination and allow you to say, like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I can belong in this world, and I can also

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Speaker 1: make up my own and I can be real and

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Speaker 1: feel tangible, like those are such the beginning locks of

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Speaker 1: who you are today. And as I was reading your memoir,

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Speaker 1: that opening scene, like there was this rawness, authenticity, this

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Speaker 1: energy of just like the passion that you exude on

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Speaker 1: the screen, you feel that in your memoir, you absolutely

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Speaker 1: feel that. So the memoir begins with the incident in

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Speaker 1: your childhood. A group of racist boys chase you down,

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Speaker 1: they taught you, they attack you, and you said, this

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Speaker 1: is the first time you really had your heart and

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Speaker 1: spirit broken. Did you know you were going to start

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Speaker 1: at that point as eight year old Viola? No? How

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Speaker 1: long did it take you to write it? Like how

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Speaker 1: it took me a long long time to get that

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Speaker 1: first chapter, very very long, because when you shake somebody's

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Speaker 1: hand for the first time and you say hi, I'm Viola.

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Speaker 1: For me, the first chapter was like a handshake, Hi,

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Speaker 1: I'm Viola. So what is that high going to be?

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Speaker 1: I thought it was you know, when I go to

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Speaker 1: Target or Vans or Ralph's, which I love grocery shopping

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Speaker 1: by the way, and people come up to me and

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Speaker 1: they say, oh, miss Davis when they want to hug me.

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Speaker 1: Everybody wants to hug dudes want to hug me. Everyone

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Speaker 1: wants to hug me. So I was like, should that

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Speaker 1: be my introduction? And I was like, no, my introduction

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Speaker 1: should be my story. That's what it should be. And

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Speaker 1: for me, I always go back to this story. I

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Speaker 1: think we spend so much of our lives hiding the

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Speaker 1: truth of who we are. I think we either hide it,

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Speaker 1: we reinvent it, we reshape it, we remember it really

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Speaker 1: wrong a lot of times. And that was the challenge

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Speaker 1: of the first chapter of giving someone a story that

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Speaker 1: totally incompletely defined who I was, and not thinking about

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Speaker 1: how it was going to land. And that's why that

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Speaker 1: chapter was very, very difficult for me. I just found

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Speaker 1: that as I went through my life, there was something

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Speaker 1: always gnawing at me. And I realized through therapy is

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Speaker 1: that I believed what they were saying about me. I did.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of my earliest memories. And it's a

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Speaker 1: powerful one because you have eight to nine boys, because

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Speaker 1: I would count them. Sometimes there were more, but I

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Speaker 1: would count them. And when they're saying the combo of

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Speaker 1: those words, the black, the ugly, the nigga, all of

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Speaker 1: them together, and they're screaming it with eight. And then

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Speaker 1: as you move along in your life and you don't

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Speaker 1: have any boyfriends, there's no one asking you out. I

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Speaker 1: remember growing up. I remember this bus driver saying, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think black women are attractive at all. There's

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Speaker 1: only two black women I find attractive, Donna Summer and

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Speaker 1: Diana Ross. And I just remember even going through my

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Speaker 1: life when people with impunity just telling me out of

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Speaker 1: the blue, when we were just having a conversation about

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Speaker 1: just nonsensical things that would have to interject with you know,

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Speaker 1: you're not pretty right what? And but for me? See?

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Speaker 1: For me, That's why I had to start with that memory,

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Speaker 1: because here's the thing. With men, it's virility. With women,

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Speaker 1: it's beauty. And when you're dark skin, black woman, you

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Speaker 1: are catapulted out of that realm of beauty. What does

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Speaker 1: that mean? What it means is they give beauty a

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Speaker 1: value and a worth. So if you're not that, then

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Speaker 1: you're worth less. That was a message to me, and

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Speaker 1: it was a constant driving me. Not a true message,

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Speaker 1: it's a big fat lie, but it was a message.

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Speaker 1: Nevertheless that had an effect and metastasize and I needed

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Speaker 1: to address it, which is why I started the book

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Speaker 1: with that memory. I thought it was a fitting start.

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Speaker 1: There's a scene in the book where you talk about

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Speaker 1: seeing Sisily Tyson and years later working with her on

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Speaker 1: screen in person. Just everything about Sicily Tyson is just

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Speaker 1: it feels my heart with such joy. I recently finished

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Speaker 1: her autobiography, and I see you in a lineage. I

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Speaker 1: see you both holding hands in such a beautiful way.

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Speaker 1: Definitely holding her hand. I'll tell you I held it

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Speaker 1: and she lifted me up out of a very dark hole.

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Speaker 1: Because I think you need to see a physical manifestation

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Speaker 1: of your dreams. I don't think that it's enough for

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Speaker 1: people to say, you gotta hope it. You got to

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Speaker 1: believe it, and you have to pull it out of

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Speaker 1: yourself when you don't have the language for it, you

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Speaker 1: don't have the bandwidth for it. Here's the thing. Beauty

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a value. I'm going to repeat it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, listen, there's some beautiful people in the world.

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Speaker 1: It's not just the way Miss Tyson looked that blew

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Speaker 1: me over. It was everything that she was. It was

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Speaker 1: her braveness and a courage to play a character the

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Speaker 1: age from eighteen to what it was, one hundred and ten,

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Speaker 1: one hundred and six. It was her excellence and her artistry.

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Speaker 1: And I found that as I've moved through my life

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Speaker 1: and the more I have examined my life, that I've

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Speaker 1: made peace with it, that I've unpacked it. The more

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Speaker 1: I have moved or self love and acceptance and ownership

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Speaker 1: of my story. The more I've connected with myself, the

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Speaker 1: more beautiful I felt. It is an internal almost not

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Speaker 1: reckoning that happens like when you're able to know who

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Speaker 1: you are. It reflects outword. That's like the glow that

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Speaker 1: people talk about. That's that energy that you don't know

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Speaker 1: why you attracted that person. It's like their energy, you know.

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Speaker 1: Can I quote you? I recently read an interview that

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Speaker 1: you did and you were talking about the book, and

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Speaker 1: basically you said, I count it all as joy. I do.

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Speaker 1: All of those things happen to me, but I own

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Speaker 1: it and it's a part of who I am. And

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Speaker 1: I think what you were just speaking to is owning

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Speaker 1: it and finding the courage to tell your story and

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Speaker 1: not be afraid of the messy parts of the hard parts,

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Speaker 1: like in your memoir, was there anything that you were like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about this or I don't

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Speaker 1: want to own this. How did you work up the

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Speaker 1: courage to own every moment of your story? I just

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Speaker 1: did it. I mean, I understand that courage is not

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Speaker 1: the absence of fear. It's probably the absence of faith.

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Speaker 1: Would you can see yourself a faithful person. Absolutely, I

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Speaker 1: had to believe it, even though I didn't see it.

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Speaker 1: And I believe that. I've gotten to the age of

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Speaker 1: fifty six and I have beautiful friendships, but they're very

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Speaker 1: few of them, because I think there's very few people

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Speaker 1: that you have a lasting connection to. And part of

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Speaker 1: that is because, well, there's not a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who have a connection to themselves. And they don't have

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Speaker 1: a connection to themselves because there's a huge part of

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Speaker 1: this story that they do not want to own, believe, examine,

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Speaker 1: look at. They just rather it die somewhere, just an

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Speaker 1: invisible death. And so then when I'm in the presence

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Speaker 1: of people like that and I really want to lean

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Speaker 1: in and I really want to have hard conversations, I

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Speaker 1: can't have it because they've disconnected. That's one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons why I wanted to write the book, because I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be that. Yes, I don't want anyone

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Speaker 1: to come into my presence in the field they haven't

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Speaker 1: made a connection with me. And I find that there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that have jumped ship in my

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Speaker 1: life and have been fair weather friends that they could

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Speaker 1: connect with me, enjoy and in good times when I'm winning,

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Speaker 1: but when I'm not, it is dead silence. The people

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Speaker 1: who I want in my foxhole, on my team are

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Speaker 1: people who have my back whenever after the break. More

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Speaker 1: with an incomparable Viola Davis on her memoir Finding Me.

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Speaker 1: I'm Glory Adam and you're listening to well read Black Girl. Today,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking to actor and author Biola Davis about her

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Speaker 1: writing ritual, how acting and writing works for her, and

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Speaker 1: what she considers her legacy. You tell so many great

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Speaker 1: stories about acting and attending Juilliard and working with Seana Rons.

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Speaker 1: Some of your most notable characters have had little screen time,

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Speaker 1: but you've had like a huge impact. I'm thinking of Doubt,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking of miss Miller. And in the book you

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Speaker 1: talk about how you wrote the hundred page biography of

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Speaker 1: who this character was. Was this something that you learned

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Speaker 1: at Juilliard or was it something that you just like

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Speaker 1: decided to try to get a fuller understanding of the character.

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Speaker 1: That is the actual process of being an actor. That's

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Speaker 1: how you find a character. You start with the given circumstances.

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Speaker 1: Everything in the script that says something about your character,

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Speaker 1: how she's dressed, what she looks, like and that's the Bible.

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Speaker 1: Those are all your stats, and then you have to

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Speaker 1: fill it in with life, right. I mean, you yourself

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Speaker 1: have your favorite color, what's your favorite book, what's your

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Speaker 1: worst memory? What is the deepest, darkest secret you ever kept?

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Speaker 1: When were you born? What do you live for? What's

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Speaker 1: standing in the way of what you live for? All

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Speaker 1: of those things you have to ask yourself, and then

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Speaker 1: you write a bio so that by the time you

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Speaker 1: are on that set, you're armed with so much information

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Speaker 1: that you have slowly become that character, whoever that character

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Speaker 1: is now. I say it all the time. If someone

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Speaker 1: were to do a bio pick up my life, if

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Speaker 1: they went to my husband and even my daughter, you're

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Speaker 1: still on going to get forty to fifty percent of

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Speaker 1: who I am. Who you are is so vast. There

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Speaker 1: are the stream of consciousness your day to day that

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Speaker 1: you never share, even with the person that you love

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Speaker 1: the most. Maybe a dark thought that comes up, or

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Speaker 1: a happy one or a salacious one. I've lived fifty

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Speaker 1: six years on this earth, then maybe one thing that

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Speaker 1: I've forgotten that someone will remind me of, or something

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Speaker 1: that I remember that I would never share with anyone

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Speaker 1: because I find that maybe you don't need to know

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to forget, but all of those things

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Speaker 1: make you who you are. So you can't write enough,

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Speaker 1: you can't discover enough, you can't unearth enough to create

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Speaker 1: a human being. I feel I'm gonna cry because I'm

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Speaker 1: just like everything you're saying is so on point. It's

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Speaker 1: like what we need in order does it tell our

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Speaker 1: stories in order to heal ourselves? And you described your

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Speaker 1: acting profession as a healing well spring? What do you

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Speaker 1: mean by that? Meaning you have to become a human being.

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Speaker 1: You have to become another human being. So you have

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Speaker 1: to rely on life, what you have observed in life.

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Speaker 1: You gotta be vulnerable, you gotta totally open yourself up.

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Speaker 1: I played a crack addictive woman Ava May in Antoine Fisher.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people say crack addict as if it

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Speaker 1: explains everything. Well, Noah doesn't. She has a name, she

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Speaker 1: has a past, she has desires, she has regrets, she

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Speaker 1: has all of that. And for me filling that up

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Speaker 1: and making you believe that is relying on things within myself,

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Speaker 1: even things that have happened that I've observed in the past.

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Speaker 1: That I have to be vulnerable and allow my emotions

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Speaker 1: and those private emotions to seep through on camera in public.

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Speaker 1: So it is like a therapy session using the character

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Speaker 1: as a conduit to express that, and that is extraordinarily healing.

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Speaker 1: Everything you're saying is just so on time. Right now,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about your feeling that you're going

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Speaker 1: to be bringing into the world The Woman King. I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited for it. Can you talk about that process

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Speaker 1: of bringing this to life? There are no words literally

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Speaker 1: to describe the eight month process of shooting The Woman King,

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Speaker 1: which is about the Agojia tribe in Benin West Africa,

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Speaker 1: which was Dahomey, West Africa. There are no words of

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Speaker 1: looking at, first of all, the scope of the set design,

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Speaker 1: the faces of all the black and brown people on

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Speaker 1: that set, the warriors. There were times when you were

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Speaker 1: moved to tears and there were times that you were

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Speaker 1: moved to complete silence. Is what it was. It is

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Speaker 1: absolutely my legacy to bring up black women and to

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Speaker 1: make them a part of the narrative. We have been

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Speaker 1: so forgotten, left behind, not adored for so long that

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Speaker 1: I found that when I stepped off that stage, when

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Speaker 1: I accepted my oscar, that that was the only thing

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Speaker 1: that made me feel alive. That if I could do

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Speaker 1: what Miss Tyson did, if I could do that for

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Speaker 1: other black women like the Lashawna Lynches, that she La

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Speaker 1: eight Teams, Tussa Mbe dou Adrian Warren, the Jamie Lawson's,

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Speaker 1: any number of them that are in this movie. I

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Speaker 1: cannot tell you you wait until you see it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is the power of a physical manifestation of dreams

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Speaker 1: that people tell you to have faith for. You're supposed

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Speaker 1: to believe it even though you don't see it, and

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Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, I'm gonna believe it, even though I

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Speaker 1: don't see Okay, I believe it. But when you see

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Speaker 1: it and you believe it and you hope for it,

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Speaker 1: then oh my god, that is a powerful elixir. The

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Speaker 1: Woman King is what I'm sharing with others. That is

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Speaker 1: my elixir. That will be my elixir. I would love

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Speaker 1: to even go even further with that because listen, after this,

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Speaker 1: I'm about to go into my group chat because we

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Speaker 1: used to have a how to Get Away with Murder

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Speaker 1: group chat and we can oh, we would go and

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Speaker 1: how many people because I forgot we would have all

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Speaker 1: of our memes and we would talk about what was

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Speaker 1: going on with the latest episode was and there was just,

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Speaker 1: of course the iconic episode when you take off your wig.

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Speaker 1: We're like, yes, that's us right now, like watching like

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Speaker 1: taking off our wig and feeling free. And you're talking

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Speaker 1: about all these moments of just showing up and being

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Speaker 1: who you really are. And I think there's not enough spaces,

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Speaker 1: whether it's in fiction or in film, where black women

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Speaker 1: can just show up as they are and not feel

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Speaker 1: like they have to perform or be number one. They

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Speaker 1: can just be whole, real authentic women without any kind

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Speaker 1: of like adornments exactly exactly, you know. I think that's

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Speaker 1: what I learned when I went to Africa, the piece

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Speaker 1: of just being you can you tell us more about that.

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Speaker 1: I remember being in the Gambia and I was walking

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Speaker 1: down the street or something, and I think I went

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Speaker 1: into a storefront and I thought to myself, every time

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Speaker 1: I walked into a store, I was thinking, Okay, what

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Speaker 1: is the store? Oh my god, the security guard is

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Speaker 1: going to follow me. Let me show them that I'm

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Speaker 1: not here to steal. Blah blah blah blah. That's my

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Speaker 1: inner narrative. All of a sudden, I'm in Africa and

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Speaker 1: all of that is gone. You're just present in a

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Speaker 1: community where everybody looks like you, and that levity, that

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Speaker 1: peace that comes with just being and also the enormity

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Speaker 1: of seeing art as ritual. Because here's the thing. I

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Speaker 1: wrote the book because I had just an existential crisis

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Speaker 1: of meaning after the Brianna Taylor, Ahmad Aubrey, George Floyd,

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Speaker 1: the LGBTQ community, the elections, the COVID of it all.

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Speaker 1: It was just a real crisis of meaning. And when

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Speaker 1: you have a crisis of meaning, what ritual? What tool

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Speaker 1: do you have to find it? In other cultures, they

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Speaker 1: get together and they sing, they have songs, they have

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Speaker 1: the Jim Bay drum, They go out into the bush

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Speaker 1: for months at a time and they learn from their elders.

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Speaker 1: I learned that in Africa, the power of community, the

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Speaker 1: power of connection, the power of connecting that ritual to

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Speaker 1: something in life that gets us from one point to another. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So what became your ritual in this process of writing

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Speaker 1: the book starting in twenty and twenty, did you like

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Speaker 1: go into your room and get into a corner? Yes?

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Speaker 1: How did you find a way to write through this

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Speaker 1: pain and make it into this beautiful book. I got

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Speaker 1: up three o'clock in the morning, which by the way,

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Speaker 1: is hormone reset time. That seems the time that everybody

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Speaker 1: wakes up three in the morning. So I would wake

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Speaker 1: up at three in the morning, and I would come

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Speaker 1: to my movie room because it sound proof, and I

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00:26:48,617 --> 00:26:51,257
Speaker 1: would be in the dark with my computer and I

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Speaker 1: would write for three four hours or more at a time,

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Speaker 1: and I would just write. I wouldn't edit at all yet,

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Speaker 1: I just regurgitate, just write, and i'd write a memory

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Speaker 1: that came to me. And then I would stop and

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Speaker 1: I would breathe, and I get a cup of tea.

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Speaker 1: And then if I thought something again, I would put

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Speaker 1: a little notepad next to my bed with a pen,

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Speaker 1: and I just write down one word that would unlock something.

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Speaker 1: Or I would call my sisters and ask them about

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Speaker 1: a story, because sometimes we remember things wrong. We remember

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Speaker 1: things that fits our needs at the time, whatever that is,

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Speaker 1: And that would be my ritual. Now that the book

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00:27:36,697 --> 00:27:39,297
Speaker 1: is out, what are your sister's thing? Did you allow

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Speaker 1: them to read it or is it gonna be the

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Speaker 1: first time reading them? Most definitely okay, oh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: allowed them to read it. I just feel like truth

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00:27:48,897 --> 00:27:54,977
Speaker 1: is so absolutely cathartic. I really do, and I tried

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Speaker 1: to tell the truth as much as I could, as

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Speaker 1: much as I could remember. But I also think that

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Speaker 1: in the book you see my love for my sisters.

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Speaker 1: I think that you see that I'm honoring them. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that you honor people by filtering out what

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00:28:12,977 --> 00:28:17,177
Speaker 1: you see as the bad parts, because that's an apology,

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Speaker 1: that's not an uplift. Yeah, I see all of who

429
00:28:21,697 --> 00:28:24,537
Speaker 1: they were and all of what happened to me, and

430
00:28:24,657 --> 00:28:28,257
Speaker 1: I celebrate that. I didn't find out until I was

431
00:28:28,377 --> 00:28:32,617
Speaker 1: fifty three that young Viola was a survivor. I thought

432
00:28:32,657 --> 00:28:38,097
Speaker 1: that she was just a pain soaker upper. I didn't

433
00:28:38,137 --> 00:28:42,897
Speaker 1: know that. Literally, for me, my life has become all

434
00:28:42,977 --> 00:28:45,297
Speaker 1: the stages of my life where I went through a

435
00:28:45,457 --> 00:28:49,737
Speaker 1: radical transformation, like I went from one point to another.

436
00:28:50,297 --> 00:28:54,577
Speaker 1: That all of that counts as my relay race. The

437
00:28:54,777 --> 00:28:57,737
Speaker 1: six year old passing the baton to the fourteen year

438
00:28:57,817 --> 00:29:01,417
Speaker 1: old Viola and saying, I ran my leg of the race.

439
00:29:01,657 --> 00:29:04,657
Speaker 1: I was a little shoddy. I said a lot of

440
00:29:04,657 --> 00:29:09,057
Speaker 1: bad words, but listen, I got here, Yea and the

441
00:29:09,097 --> 00:29:12,177
Speaker 1: fourteen year old Viola passing the baton to the twenty

442
00:29:12,177 --> 00:29:14,857
Speaker 1: eight Viola who said, you know what I thought. I

443
00:29:14,897 --> 00:29:18,057
Speaker 1: grew up, I have my degree, I'm at Juilliard. I

444
00:29:18,137 --> 00:29:21,257
Speaker 1: just graduated, but there's some things that I really need

445
00:29:21,257 --> 00:29:24,577
Speaker 1: to work on. So I accept the baton. And then

446
00:29:24,657 --> 00:29:27,017
Speaker 1: that twenty eight year old Viola passed the baton to

447
00:29:27,057 --> 00:29:30,857
Speaker 1: the thirty four year old Viola who met Julius and

448
00:29:30,937 --> 00:29:34,697
Speaker 1: who wanted to accept an intimate relationship in my life

449
00:29:34,897 --> 00:29:36,897
Speaker 1: and I wanted to be able to give to it

450
00:29:37,257 --> 00:29:40,497
Speaker 1: and contribute my one hundred percent. And then that Viola

451
00:29:40,537 --> 00:29:43,297
Speaker 1: passing the baton to the forty something. You're Viola who

452
00:29:43,297 --> 00:29:48,097
Speaker 1: had the hysterectomy who then became a mom at forty five.

453
00:29:48,697 --> 00:29:52,177
Speaker 1: You know, and that's what life becomes. At each stage

454
00:29:52,217 --> 00:29:56,617
Speaker 1: of your life are a reassessment, because there are a

455
00:29:56,737 --> 00:30:01,417
Speaker 1: new set of obstacles with each stage that you face.

456
00:30:02,737 --> 00:30:06,497
Speaker 1: And my book became my ritual, and it also became

457
00:30:06,537 --> 00:30:09,697
Speaker 1: your legacy in such a powerful way. But you know,

458
00:30:10,177 --> 00:30:12,617
Speaker 1: you all so mentioned that part of your legacy is

459
00:30:12,657 --> 00:30:17,097
Speaker 1: forgiving your dad and forgiving who you were a as

460
00:30:17,137 --> 00:30:20,417
Speaker 1: a young person and saying like, okay, I am a survivor.

461
00:30:20,537 --> 00:30:22,697
Speaker 1: I am able to do all these beautiful things and

462
00:30:22,897 --> 00:30:26,497
Speaker 1: keep moving forward in my life. How has that process

463
00:30:26,497 --> 00:30:29,737
Speaker 1: of forgiving helped you become the person you are today?

464
00:30:29,777 --> 00:30:32,777
Speaker 1: How has that process been They say that therapy is

465
00:30:32,817 --> 00:30:35,617
Speaker 1: the point where you learned that your parents did the

466
00:30:35,657 --> 00:30:38,737
Speaker 1: best they could with what they had. So it's giving

467
00:30:38,817 --> 00:30:42,137
Speaker 1: up all hope of a different past. You're not trying

468
00:30:42,137 --> 00:30:45,897
Speaker 1: to change it. You're not trying to become the Brady Bunch.

469
00:30:47,177 --> 00:30:52,137
Speaker 1: My forgiveness was for me, Yeah, was to lighten my load,

470
00:30:53,617 --> 00:30:56,577
Speaker 1: That's what it was. It was a choice I made

471
00:30:56,617 --> 00:31:00,417
Speaker 1: because I really really wanted to love my father and

472
00:31:00,457 --> 00:31:04,297
Speaker 1: I saw more benefits to loving and forgiving him than

473
00:31:04,377 --> 00:31:09,377
Speaker 1: I did with not doing that right. And one of

474
00:31:09,377 --> 00:31:11,817
Speaker 1: the things that I know in life, I know even

475
00:31:11,857 --> 00:31:15,577
Speaker 1: with parenting, it's life doesn't always have to be pretty

476
00:31:15,657 --> 00:31:22,777
Speaker 1: to be right. Hi, I'm Viola Davis and you're listening

477
00:31:22,817 --> 00:31:36,417
Speaker 1: to a well read black girl. It's time for rapid

478
00:31:36,537 --> 00:31:41,217
Speaker 1: by y'all. So you just gotta the first thing that

479
00:31:41,217 --> 00:31:43,577
Speaker 1: comes to mind. I'm not great at this. I'm gonna

480
00:31:43,577 --> 00:31:46,897
Speaker 1: be better. We made it easy. So it's the first

481
00:31:46,897 --> 00:31:50,777
Speaker 1: one is are you an introvert or you are extrovert?

482
00:31:51,137 --> 00:31:57,017
Speaker 1: Introvert absolutely without question, cats or dogs, dogs love dogs.

483
00:31:57,817 --> 00:32:00,457
Speaker 1: Out of all the characters you've played, who would you

484
00:32:00,497 --> 00:32:04,617
Speaker 1: play over again? That's a hard one. I'm gonna say analyst, keating,

485
00:32:06,137 --> 00:32:10,377
Speaker 1: I miss her, O go to cocktail. Oh my god,

486
00:32:10,697 --> 00:32:15,297
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to say sparkling brute wine, champagne. Ah. Yes,

487
00:32:15,417 --> 00:32:19,497
Speaker 1: always a celebration. Yeah. This one's a little bit longer,

488
00:32:19,577 --> 00:32:22,657
Speaker 1: so you'll have some time. You say the memoir that

489
00:32:22,697 --> 00:32:26,257
Speaker 1: you have considered being a teacher. If you had to teach,

490
00:32:26,577 --> 00:32:29,057
Speaker 1: what subject would it be? It would have to be

491
00:32:29,137 --> 00:32:33,137
Speaker 1: English because I was an honor student in English and

492
00:32:33,537 --> 00:32:37,617
Speaker 1: I was going to major in school until I decided

493
00:32:37,657 --> 00:32:41,017
Speaker 1: to be a theater major. I love books, and I

494
00:32:41,097 --> 00:32:44,257
Speaker 1: love words, and I love plays. I love all of it.

495
00:32:44,377 --> 00:32:48,257
Speaker 1: So I would teach that. You've made a billion English teachers.

496
00:32:48,337 --> 00:32:53,257
Speaker 1: So happy to hear that. That was wonderful. Thank you

497
00:32:53,297 --> 00:32:55,817
Speaker 1: so much for coming on the Well Read Black Girl Podcast.

498
00:32:55,937 --> 00:32:59,297
Speaker 1: We are so appreciative and congratulations on your new memoir.

499
00:32:59,897 --> 00:33:05,977
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay, y'all, Like wow,

500
00:33:06,537 --> 00:33:10,657
Speaker 1: I am still buzzing from my conversation with Biola Davis,

501
00:33:10,897 --> 00:33:14,697
Speaker 1: the Viola Davis. I can't believe those words are coming

502
00:33:14,737 --> 00:33:17,737
Speaker 1: out of my mouth to have the opportunity to be

503
00:33:17,857 --> 00:33:22,857
Speaker 1: in conversation with such an icon as a blessing. Her

504
00:33:22,897 --> 00:33:26,937
Speaker 1: memoir is an unfiltered look into her entire life, and

505
00:33:27,057 --> 00:33:31,337
Speaker 1: she gives us courage to examine our own stories. Viola's

506
00:33:31,337 --> 00:33:35,337
Speaker 1: beautiful story is centered on overcoming the obstacles of her life,

507
00:33:35,697 --> 00:33:38,377
Speaker 1: and she wants us to embrace the full pain and

508
00:33:38,577 --> 00:33:43,297
Speaker 1: joy of being alive. Finding Me by Viola Davis is

509
00:33:43,297 --> 00:33:51,537
Speaker 1: out now, so pick up a copy. This is the

510
00:33:51,617 --> 00:33:55,337
Speaker 1: final episode of the season, and I'm just so proud.

511
00:33:55,937 --> 00:33:58,657
Speaker 1: I got to speak with so many of my favorite writers,

512
00:33:59,017 --> 00:34:01,817
Speaker 1: and I hope they became some of your new favorites too.

513
00:34:03,097 --> 00:34:07,177
Speaker 1: This season has been a lesson in endurance. With each interview,

514
00:34:07,217 --> 00:34:10,217
Speaker 1: I discovered a new way to nurture myself, to craft

515
00:34:10,257 --> 00:34:13,337
Speaker 1: the sense or simply how to reach for a story

516
00:34:13,417 --> 00:34:18,057
Speaker 1: that made me feel seen. Sharing these conversations with all

517
00:34:18,097 --> 00:34:21,137
Speaker 1: of you has been one of the most meaningful experience

518
00:34:21,217 --> 00:34:23,977
Speaker 1: I've had since starting the book club, and that says

519
00:34:23,977 --> 00:34:27,937
Speaker 1: a lot. Throughout this season, I've learned that by highlighting

520
00:34:27,937 --> 00:34:31,017
Speaker 1: the stories of women of color, by simply shifting their

521
00:34:31,097 --> 00:34:34,377
Speaker 1: lives from margins to center, we can uplift the narratives

522
00:34:34,417 --> 00:34:38,257
Speaker 1: of all women, no matter your race, your gender, your background,

523
00:34:38,297 --> 00:34:41,977
Speaker 1: our stories are universal. It's been awe inspiring to witness

524
00:34:42,017 --> 00:34:45,577
Speaker 1: our differences and our similarities. It makes me think of

525
00:34:45,577 --> 00:34:49,137
Speaker 1: this Audrey Lord quote and Sister Outsider. It is not

526
00:34:49,257 --> 00:34:54,217
Speaker 1: our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize, except,

527
00:34:54,337 --> 00:34:59,057
Speaker 1: and celebrate those differences. For every community member that has

528
00:34:59,097 --> 00:35:02,897
Speaker 1: reached out on social media and our dms, shouting us

529
00:35:02,897 --> 00:35:06,217
Speaker 1: out in your bookstore and sending episodes to your friends

530
00:35:06,217 --> 00:35:09,857
Speaker 1: and family, I see you and I appreciate you. It

531
00:35:09,897 --> 00:35:11,537
Speaker 1: would mean the world world to me if we can

532
00:35:11,577 --> 00:35:14,977
Speaker 1: continue sharing and downloading all the episodes from the season,

533
00:35:15,537 --> 00:35:17,977
Speaker 1: start from the very first one, which is a very

534
00:35:18,017 --> 00:35:24,857
Speaker 1: special episode for me. Until next time. Thank you for

535
00:35:24,937 --> 00:35:44,017
Speaker 1: listening to Well Read Black Girl. Well Read black Girl

536
00:35:44,177 --> 00:35:47,777
Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. It is written and

537
00:35:47,817 --> 00:35:52,097
Speaker 1: hosted by me Glory Dam and produced by Scher Vincent

538
00:35:52,297 --> 00:35:57,457
Speaker 1: and Brittany Brown. Our associate editor is Keishall Williams. Our

539
00:35:57,497 --> 00:36:02,817
Speaker 1: engineer is Amanda ka Wang, and our showrunner is Sasha Matthias.

540
00:36:02,857 --> 00:36:06,817
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Vicki Merrick and Lisa Dunn. Our executive

541
00:36:06,857 --> 00:36:11,657
Speaker 1: producers are Mia Lobell and Lee taal Molad at Pushkin

542
00:36:11,857 --> 00:36:17,257
Speaker 1: thanks to Heather Fane, Carly Migliori, Jason Gambrau, Julia Barton,

543
00:36:17,977 --> 00:36:23,697
Speaker 1: Jen Goera, John Schnars, and Jacob Wiseberg. You can find

544
00:36:23,737 --> 00:36:26,457
Speaker 1: me on Twitter and Instagram at Well Read black Girl.

545
00:36:26,817 --> 00:36:29,657
Speaker 1: You can find Pushkin and all social media platforms at

546
00:36:29,697 --> 00:36:32,697
Speaker 1: Pushkin Pods, and you can sign up for our newsletter

547
00:36:32,737 --> 00:36:36,857
Speaker 1: at pushkin dot Fm. If you have a question or recommendation,

548
00:36:37,017 --> 00:36:39,537
Speaker 1: or you just want to say hi, email us at

549
00:36:39,657 --> 00:36:44,817
Speaker 1: WRBG at pushkin dot Fm. If you love this show

550
00:36:44,817 --> 00:36:49,017
Speaker 1: and others from Pushkin industry, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.

551
00:36:49,457 --> 00:36:53,257
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content

552
00:36:53,297 --> 00:36:57,377
Speaker 1: and uninterrupted listening for four ninety nine a month. Look

553
00:36:57,417 --> 00:37:01,417
Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you're

554
00:37:01,417 --> 00:37:04,577
Speaker 1: already a subscriber, make sure to check out my exclusive

555
00:37:04,617 --> 00:37:08,297
Speaker 1: Bookmark series. You'll hear our full slate of extended interviews

556
00:37:08,297 --> 00:37:11,977
Speaker 1: with book club members, bookstore owners, more, and you'll hear

557
00:37:12,017 --> 00:37:14,737
Speaker 1: what's on my mind, on my Radar and what's on

558
00:37:14,777 --> 00:37:18,697
Speaker 1: my reading list this season. To find more Pushkin podcasts,

559
00:37:18,857 --> 00:37:23,137
Speaker 1: listen on iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you like

560
00:37:23,337 --> 00:37:23,817
Speaker 1: to listen