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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. All Right, one of

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Speaker 1: the big big stories on the Bloomberg terminal today, Amazon

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Speaker 1: discloses a steak in e v maker Rivian. Ed Ludlow

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Speaker 1: joins us from uh San Francisco. Ed, big story here,

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Speaker 1: big names. What's Amazon doing? Yeah, it's interesting because we've

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Speaker 1: reported the influence that Amazon had over this company already.

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Speaker 1: You know, just for the audience. This is a company

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Speaker 1: that's made very few vehicles on talking tens of units

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Speaker 1: of battery electric pickups, but is really closely followed because

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Speaker 1: Amazon is also a customer of Rivian. They've ordered a

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand delivery vans. You know, we we've known that

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Speaker 1: they've made private investments along the way in this company.

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Speaker 1: But stake in a company that's about I P O

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Speaker 1: is is important right as part of market functioning. UM.

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Speaker 1: But it's just you know it frankly adds evidence to

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Speaker 1: the piece we put out last month that this is

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Speaker 1: a company under immense pressure because it's biggest customer is

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Speaker 1: also one of its biggest shareholders, and it's kind of

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Speaker 1: pulling the strings of what Rivian is trying to do.

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Speaker 1: Why would Amazon not just out right by this company.

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Speaker 1: It's a great question because Amazon has taken that approach

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Speaker 1: in the past. If you think about its efforts in

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Speaker 1: autonomous driving, it bought Zooks. Now, the context there was

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Speaker 1: that Zooks was struggling, it was desperate to raise money, um,

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Speaker 1: and you know it was basically shopping itself around. UM.

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Speaker 1: So it has taken that approach in the past. But

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Speaker 1: you know, Rivian is run by this guy R. J. Scaringe,

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Speaker 1: a PhD holder from m I T. He has big

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Speaker 1: dreams and visions for electric vehicles. You know, they are

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Speaker 1: already making their own vehicles for consumers right a battery

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Speaker 1: electric pick up. They're already coming off the assembly and

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Speaker 1: limited deliveries. And you know, this is a story about

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Speaker 1: a founder and a guy who's built a company really quickly.

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Speaker 1: But in order to get to this stage, he's had

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Speaker 1: to make compromises, and the Amazon stake of seems to

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Speaker 1: be the biggest compromise of all. Do we know, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting here. Amazon's invested more than one point three

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Speaker 1: billion dollars in this automaker. They have about a hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty million shares of preferred stock, but the voting

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Speaker 1: do we know what their voting power is here? Because

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Speaker 1: it just feels like, as you suggested in your reporting,

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Speaker 1: that they're really in control here. This is what's kind

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Speaker 1: of fun about the story that when Rivian filed its

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Speaker 1: S one, remember the S one's in right and it's public,

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Speaker 1: they said Ford has a stake of more than five

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Speaker 1: percent in Rivian. They said t ro Price has a

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Speaker 1: stake of more than five percent in Rivian. You know,

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Speaker 1: these big names or x UM. Other investors include Fidelity,

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Speaker 1: black Rock. But the Amazon stake was redacted very high up,

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Speaker 1: you know, And so now we know that the ownership

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Speaker 1: interest is um you know, and you'd assume that the

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Speaker 1: voting rights are proportionate based on the volume of preferred

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Speaker 1: stock that's been issued. Amazon has about a hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty million shares of preferred stock. So well, I don't

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Speaker 1: have to tell you this because you have the privilege

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Speaker 1: of covering them all for us here at Bloomberg. But

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of players in the e V space.

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Speaker 1: It's a market that's getting very, very crowded, and and

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Speaker 1: there's kind of this narrative out there that they're not

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Speaker 1: all going to make it. Does an investment from Amazon

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Speaker 1: make Rivian one of the ones that's going to have

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Speaker 1: that sticking power? Yeah, I mean according to sources, as

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Speaker 1: we've reported, you know, the valuation of eighty billion dollars

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Speaker 1: that Rivian is seeking in its i p O is

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Speaker 1: based largely on the fact that Amazon is an investor

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Speaker 1: and a customer. You know, you saw the influence of

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Speaker 1: the hurt steal with Tesla this past week. For example,

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Speaker 1: the infancy of EVS was about selling to consumers gaining

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Speaker 1: traction EVY adoption. But now you're seeing corporates come in

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Speaker 1: and decide about their policy with regards to carbon reduction,

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Speaker 1: and you can see the power of a big corporate

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Speaker 1: placing a mass order. So Rivian kind of hit that

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Speaker 1: sweet spot, right. It has three products to consumer ones

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Speaker 1: and then the Amazon Van. The Amazon van gives it

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Speaker 1: guaranteed revenue. It's a contract for a hundred thousand vans.

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Speaker 1: We know that, we know what the deadline is and

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Speaker 1: they're on track to meet it. And as we reported,

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Speaker 1: according to sources, there's some great perks in the deal,

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Speaker 1: like they get recurring software revenues. Amazon pays them basically

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Speaker 1: for over the air updates for the duration of the contract.

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Speaker 1: It's a great thing to have. But as we've also reported,

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Speaker 1: Rivian have had to make some sacrifices and put those

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Speaker 1: consumer products on the back burner because if Jeff Bezos

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Speaker 1: is one of your biggest shareholders, right and he is

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Speaker 1: expectations because he tweeted after we published the story saying,

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Speaker 1: Hey r J, where's my vans? Um? You know, you

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Speaker 1: can imagine the pressure on that company's management team to deliver.

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Speaker 1: Just lastly, and what do we know about the product

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Speaker 1: that the van itself? Yeah, so the van can do

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Speaker 1: up to a hundred and fifty miles in a single charge.

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Speaker 1: It's very much a product for last mile delivery. Amazon

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Speaker 1: already buys delivery and right from Mercedes, from Ram, from

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Speaker 1: Ford um it's going to be a direct competitor to

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Speaker 1: Ford's e transit van, which is interesting given Forward is

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Speaker 1: an investor in rivian Um and you know it's it's

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Speaker 1: I'm hearing it's having some supply chain issues because it's

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Speaker 1: a bulky products. You need a lot of metal, you

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Speaker 1: need a lot of semiconductors. But you know, it's a

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Speaker 1: simple design and it shares common battery and motor architecture

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Speaker 1: with the consumer products. That's how Rivian's been able to

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Speaker 1: put it off. That's kind of the key. The underlying

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Speaker 1: technology is the same across all three products. Alright, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for bringing this story here. In this

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Speaker 1: reporting again, Amazon discloses steak and EV maker Rivian, So

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Speaker 1: a big, big validation I guess, if you will, of

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Speaker 1: the company's technology. Edlar Low, technology reporter for US at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. He is based in San Francisco. All Right,

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Speaker 1: everybody's got their strategies for managing this market. Again. Equity

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Speaker 1: markets at or near all time highs. Interest rates uh,

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Speaker 1: very much muted, but the tenure at one point five

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Speaker 1: seven percent. Our next guest focuses on the three bees.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna get the latest on that. John Augustine, chief

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Speaker 1: investment officer for Huntington Private Bank Joints, is on the

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Speaker 1: home on the phone from Columbus, Ohio, where the Penn

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Speaker 1: State Knitney Lions are coming in this weekend to fight

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Speaker 1: the Ohio State University. John, thanks so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Talk to us about the three bees. How are they

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Speaker 1: kind of guiding your investment outlook? Sir Paul, good morning,

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Speaker 1: and it is gonna be a good game in Columbus

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Speaker 1: this weekend. So the three be so number one, we

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Speaker 1: want to be bond light. Real yields are still too

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Speaker 1: negative for us in the bond world. We don't see recession,

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Speaker 1: so to us, the sixty portfolio should be more of

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Speaker 1: a se So that's number one. Number two with respect

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Speaker 1: to the stock market, we've been here at a lot

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Speaker 1: of rotate the value this summer and early now into

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Speaker 1: the fall. But our our equity team has stayed with growth.

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Speaker 1: They've barbelled between growth and value, and that's worked for us,

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Speaker 1: that's worked for our customers. They've got good returns here

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Speaker 1: in October. So that's the second be barbell and stocks.

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Speaker 1: The third be is just broadened. And what would mean

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Speaker 1: by broaden is include some commodities, include some real estate

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Speaker 1: with your stocks and bonds. So make sure you're broad

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Speaker 1: in your conducts next year. Is going to be more

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Speaker 1: of an interest rate driven year, which could bring up volatility.

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Speaker 1: So we just want to make sure we're broad and

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Speaker 1: our conduct for our clients. So those are three bees.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's talk about a few of your

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Speaker 1: specific holdings, because I see within your top equity holdings

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Speaker 1: for a few of your strategies are Apple and Amazon,

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Speaker 1: and those two companies you know didn't do so well

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Speaker 1: when they reported after the bell yesterday. Are you a

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Speaker 1: buyer of the dip here? Not yet, we have to

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Speaker 1: see how it forms. So they're both that a little

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Speaker 1: over three percent today. Now. One interesting thing though for

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Speaker 1: our for our equity team, what we put on them

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Speaker 1: is a five percent limit on positions. The reason we

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Speaker 1: do that is a lot of our institutional customers have

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Speaker 1: a five percent limit or feeling on individual positions, so

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Speaker 1: that in many cases makes us fang light portfolios. So

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Speaker 1: as an example, Amazon's a little bit about six percent.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me, Microsoft and Apple reach six percent of the

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Speaker 1: S and P five, so that puts us at one

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Speaker 1: good point there, but Microsoft having a better month. So

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Speaker 1: we are in all those stocks you have to be,

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Speaker 1: but we do limit positions. So it's interesting you're just

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Speaker 1: love to get your thoughts here. Were more than halfway

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Speaker 1: through earnings, uh this cycle? What's your takeaway? Forward estimates

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Speaker 1: are not going down? So so current quarters up? You know,

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Speaker 1: the coming into the quarter it was plus percent estimate.

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Speaker 1: Actual today looks like plus thirty six with a little

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Speaker 1: over half reporting after the company in the SMP five.

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Speaker 1: What surprises us, though, Paul, is we haven't seen forward

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Speaker 1: estimates go down as much as current quarter estimates are

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Speaker 1: going up. That's unusual to us. That's a healthy sign.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's talk about the signs we're getting

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Speaker 1: from the bond market. I know you said seventy and

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Speaker 1: more appropriate portfolio allocation. But when you think about prior

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Speaker 1: to today, as of yesterday's close, an equity market and

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Speaker 1: an all time high, and you had a yield curve

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Speaker 1: that is telling you that there's some serious fear out

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Speaker 1: there about economic growth. How do you kind of square

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Speaker 1: those things? Well, what's really interesting to us, Keyley, is

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Speaker 1: the two year and ten year moves over the past,

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Speaker 1: you know, just so far this month in Europe in

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Speaker 1: the US, because they're completely opposite. In the US, it's

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Speaker 1: the two year that's moving up. That signals to US

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Speaker 1: a more hawkish fe it in Europe. It's the ten

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Speaker 1: uere that's moving up. That sink signals to us our

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Speaker 1: fixed income team a more lenient ECB that wants growth

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Speaker 1: and it's not going to inhibit. So there's a big

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Speaker 1: difference between two and ten years yields US Europe, and

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Speaker 1: the Fed is going to have to thread that needle

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Speaker 1: next week. They don't want an inverted yield curve. They've

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Speaker 1: already kind of done it thirties to twenty. We don't

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Speaker 1: think they're gonna want to invert the yeld curve anymore.

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Speaker 1: So they've got to thread that needle on tapering and

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Speaker 1: potential rate increases at their statement press conference next Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: John what's the give us a name or two that

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Speaker 1: you've recently edited to your profoilio and why Well, the

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Speaker 1: equity team has come into again under the Barbell theme.

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Speaker 1: So what they're looking at more now is coming in,

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Speaker 1: for instance, UM with a Parker Hannason, but the bringing

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Speaker 1: in Johnson and Johnson, so cyclical name, growth name coming

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Speaker 1: in with Caterpillar, but then bringing in Crown Castle into

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Speaker 1: some of the portfolios which we own and all three

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Speaker 1: of our equity portfolios, so they're coming in with a

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Speaker 1: barbell aspect. Usually they'll bring in a cyclical and they'll

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Speaker 1: bring in a growth at the same time, and we

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Speaker 1: like that approach. It's worked for us this year. Hey, John,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. We always love getting

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Speaker 1: your thoughts and some of the names that you and

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Speaker 1: your teams are looking at. Crown Castle, it's a great name.

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Speaker 1: I did a lot of work with that company back

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Speaker 1: in the day in the wireless space. John Augustine, Chief

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Speaker 1: Investment Officer, Huntington Private Bank, joining us on the phone

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Speaker 1: from Columbus, Ohio, home of the Ohio State University, which

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Speaker 1: we're welcoming in my pen lines. I know I'm putting

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Speaker 1: that out to Matt, so it should be fun. I

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Speaker 1: want to bring on Brenda O'Connor, Senior vice president, Financial

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Speaker 1: advisor for UBS International. Brenda, thanks so much for joining

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Speaker 1: us here. You know, we love to to speak to

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Speaker 1: you and just get a sense of you know, what

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Speaker 1: your clients, what your individual clients are asking you. Today.

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Speaker 1: We've got markets you know, making backar nearar all time highs.

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Speaker 1: We've had very strong third quarter earnings. What are you

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Speaker 1: hearing the most from your clients? Well, thank you for

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Speaker 1: having me right. You know, nervous, There risk some nervousness

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Speaker 1: about Q three earnings because investors just weren't sure how

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Speaker 1: bad the damage was going to be from three things

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Speaker 1: really delta, supply chain issues and increasing input costs. And

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Speaker 1: here we are well into Q three earnings, two percent

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Speaker 1: of companies have exceeded expectations and markets are up twenty

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Speaker 1: three percent year to date. So when I'm looking at

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Speaker 1: my client portfolios, I can't help but think we're up

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Speaker 1: eight percent last year, We're up a dred percent from

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Speaker 1: the March lows. Maybe it's time to de risk a

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Speaker 1: little bit, and we're looking to private assets to do that.

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Speaker 1: That being said, we are so positive on equities. We

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Speaker 1: think the SMP will be at around for eight hundred

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Speaker 1: by next June and five thousands by the end of

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Speaker 1: next December. Well, I feel like we've been having this conversation,

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Speaker 1: and granted we have had this conversation many, many, many

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Speaker 1: many times, but the death of the sixty forty portfolio

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Speaker 1: and whether that's a strategy that still works. When you

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Speaker 1: say you're looking to de risk a little bit, how

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Speaker 1: do you think about kind of that ratio in your

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Speaker 1: portfolio allocation. Right, So, right now, we really really like

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Speaker 1: private real estate. It is a great inflation heads and

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Speaker 1: we can talk about that more a bit later. It's

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Speaker 1: a diverse fire to equities, and it's also great source

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Speaker 1: of income and giving given more fixed income, Marcus that

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Speaker 1: that's super important. We're also not too concerned about these

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Speaker 1: lofty valuations or the prospect of a housing bubble. Think

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Speaker 1: of this. In the US, there's a five point five

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Speaker 1: million deficit of housing units because construction has dragged for

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Speaker 1: the last two decades. It's going to take another ten

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Speaker 1: years to make this up, which is great for the sector.

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Speaker 1: And as vacancy rates are under five percent, which they

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Speaker 1: are now, that's great for landlord pricing powers. We really

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Speaker 1: like allocating to real estate, private real estate, given where

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Speaker 1: markets are right now. So Brannan, you're in South Florida,

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Speaker 1: and I love to get a sense of kind of

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Speaker 1: what's that market like down there? Is it is robust

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Speaker 1: is people make it out to be. We've got obviously

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks here in the New York metro area,

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Speaker 1: you know, making their migration down there in this time,

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Speaker 1: not temporary, not seasonal, bit more permanent, right And you

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Speaker 1: can see that everywhere in terms of real estate prices,

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Speaker 1: you can you can see that in terms of the

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Speaker 1: influx of New Yorkers and finance professionals, tech professionals. In

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Speaker 1: terms of an investment perspective, I've also noticed that the

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Speaker 1: appetite for international is somewhat different than we see in

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Speaker 1: other parts of the country. So, for example, we're really

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Speaker 1: looking to China right now. We downgraded China over the

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Speaker 1: summer on the back of the regulatory crackdown and education

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Speaker 1: and gaming. Chinese equities are down year to day, But

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Speaker 1: we do think some of this is priced in. We

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Speaker 1: also think some of the fysical titany this person investors

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Speaker 1: tend to be under allocated to this region. So we

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Speaker 1: think there are opportunities in terms of green tech and

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Speaker 1: consumer durable, but in investment preferences for international seems to

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Speaker 1: be a little bit different in self Florida, given the

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Speaker 1: international dynamic of this market. While we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: migration to Florida, one of the reasons it's so attractive

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Speaker 1: is because of taxes. Frankly, especially compared to you know,

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Speaker 1: the New York tri state area where Paul and I

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Speaker 1: find ourselves. While we're talking about taxes. Given the quote

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Speaker 1: unquote framework that we've gotten in terms of what the

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Speaker 1: tax package is going to look like on capital Hill,

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Speaker 1: how does that affect your clients and what you're telling

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Speaker 1: them to do. Right, It doesn't change too much because

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Speaker 1: our expectations for for next year already factor in, uh,

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Speaker 1: some some tax cuts. So let me talk about this

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Speaker 1: in the context of something like in growth UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: Q three obviously came in at much lower than we

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Speaker 1: saw in in Q two, at six point seven first

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Speaker 1: lower than the consensus. There wasn't anything too surprising here,

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Speaker 1: given that the this was the first quarter with no

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Speaker 1: government stimulus, uh, none of the headwinds that we saw

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Speaker 1: earlier like delta or supply bottlenecks. We do expect Q

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Speaker 1: four to be much stronger. People are traveling again, hotel

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Speaker 1: occupancies above sixty five, open table reservation numbers have recovered

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Speaker 1: from their severe August September dip, and we do think

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Speaker 1: that UM GDP is going to be about five point

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Speaker 1: three percent for two. So all our expectations both on

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Speaker 1: on GDP inflation UM outlook do factor in, uh some

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Speaker 1: of those those tax sites that we're expecting to see.

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Speaker 1: So Brenda, in terms of equities, um, you know, for

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Speaker 1: those of your clients that have the courage to be

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Speaker 1: in the stock market where the sectors that you're suggesting

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Speaker 1: they focus on. When we're talking to our clients, it

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Speaker 1: is all about continuing to follow this positive earning story.

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Speaker 1: We do not think that the reflection trade is quite

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Speaker 1: over yet. We still energy and financials. Think about financials alone,

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Speaker 1: we've seen a record here in m and A for

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Speaker 1: the investment bank banks. Loan moss reserve continue to be

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Speaker 1: released and net interest margins will only start to look better.

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Speaker 1: Is that ten uere inches towards one point eight and higher.

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Speaker 1: The financials that have reported this quarter, by the way,

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Speaker 1: have been expectations by a margin of so financials is

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Speaker 1: scenario that we're definitely looking at right and we definitely

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Speaker 1: saw some positive beats when it comes to the energy

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Speaker 1: complex to day with Exxon and Chevron and those buy backs.

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Speaker 1: Man and Goldman sass talking about that, Paul and how

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Speaker 1: by backs could be even eight percent above the levels

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Speaker 1: they are this year. There's a lot of cash out there.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of cash out there. Hey, Brenda, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. We always appreciate getting

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Speaker 1: your perspective. Brenda O'Connor, Senior vice president, financial visor for

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Speaker 1: UBS International, based in the Greater Miami, Florida area. Lots

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Speaker 1: of news coming out of Silicon Valley this week. We've

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Speaker 1: got earnings and uh fast name had earnings from Amazon

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Speaker 1: and Apple, and then also Facebook making a big, big

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Speaker 1: investment in what it calls the metaverse, and in fact

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Speaker 1: big enough that they are changing the name of the

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Speaker 1: company from Facebook two Meta Technologies, Inc. I believe. Mark Berg,

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Speaker 1: and technology reporter for Bloomberg News, joins us on the

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Speaker 1: phone from San Francisco. Mark, What is meta? What is

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Speaker 1: the metaverse? What is Facebook doing here? Actually? I think

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Speaker 1: it's meta platforms. What's kind of confusing is they're what

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Speaker 1: they're not doing is they're not doing what what Alphabet

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Speaker 1: Dead or Google did six years ago, which is sort

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Speaker 1: of form a new parent company that that have houses

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Speaker 1: a bunch of different companies. They're sort of renaming themselves

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Speaker 1: but keeping the brand. And part of the idea to

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Speaker 1: here is that Mark Zuckerberg, the CEO, as just sort

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Speaker 1: of betting on Facebook's future being in augmented reality and

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Speaker 1: what he calls the metaverse, which is sort of this

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Speaker 1: a vague idea from science fiction that we will be

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Speaker 1: able to like engage with with each other in mental reality,

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Speaker 1: spaces and virtual reality using some sort of all to

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Speaker 1: find headgear. At this point it is an oculous device.

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Speaker 1: But during the presentation, Sorry, Zuckerberg also showed off service

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Speaker 1: smart watch and talked about glasses as well. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: one thing to decide your company's future, you know, looks

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Speaker 1: like that, and you're going to push more into the

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Speaker 1: meta metaverse in this augmented reality. You can still do

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Speaker 1: that without rebranding entirely and without changing the name of

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Speaker 1: your company, Which makes me wonder how much of this

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Speaker 1: is actually because Facebook found itself in very hot water politically.

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Speaker 1: There's been a lot of negative news flow over the

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Speaker 1: last several months. Really is this also kind of pr related?

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Speaker 1: We saw a lot of people came out with the

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Speaker 1: comparison to Philip Morris from two thousan three a belief

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Speaker 1: when they re branded, and certainly Facebook has been called

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Speaker 1: by critics the new tobacco um. You know, they addressed

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Speaker 1: us very briefly guest during the presentation, there was sort

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Speaker 1: of a Interestingly enough, they had Nick Clegg, who was

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Speaker 1: the BP of Government Affairs speak and talk about how

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Speaker 1: they're when they're approaching the metaverse there going to bake

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Speaker 1: it a lot of the privacy and data controls that

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Speaker 1: arguably have not been part of Facebook from the onset.

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Speaker 1: Well and Paul I couldn't help but notice what represented

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Speaker 1: Alexandria Cossio curt Has tweeted after this and she talked

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Speaker 1: about the rebrand and she said meta as in, we

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Speaker 1: are a cancer to democracy, metastasizing into global surveillance and

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Speaker 1: propaganda machine for boosting authoritarian regimes and destroying civil society

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Speaker 1: for profits. So clearly the progressives are not that impressed,

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Speaker 1: not that impressed. And Mark, I mean ten billion dollars

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Speaker 1: next year, that's kind of a big number, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know it's for Facebook and they can afford in everything.

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Speaker 1: Is the sense that this is something that they're going

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Speaker 1: to throw real money behind over the next ten years.

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Speaker 1: I think. So if you look at the strategically, you know,

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Speaker 1: a key thing to focus on here is that Facebook

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Speaker 1: U has been sort of boxed out by Apple and

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Speaker 1: Google for it's an entire existence at least on the

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Speaker 1: mobile phone in the past decade. Right, So Facebook doesn't

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Speaker 1: own the operating system, which is this big existential concern

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Speaker 1: for them. You've heard them talk a lot about Apples fees.

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Speaker 1: They've really been challenged by Apple's ad tracking changes. And

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Speaker 1: this is the way for Facebook to sort of cleverly

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Speaker 1: and I think strategically get ahead and say the next

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Speaker 1: computing platform, we not only are going to be there,

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Speaker 1: but we're going to be defining company investing the most

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Speaker 1: and and um clearly like Apple has been investing a

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Speaker 1: lot in augmented reality, Google has a certain extent. Ten

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Speaker 1: billions seems like a lot on paper. I saw something

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Speaker 1: someone to say, like, you know, Netflix invest maybe twice

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Speaker 1: the amount in it's media right now. And this is

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Speaker 1: a both a I think investment in media, but also

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Speaker 1: in hardware, silicon and alto sort of technology that hasn't

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Speaker 1: been betted yet. Well that's a great point that I

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Speaker 1: understand the concept and the idea and they and kind

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Speaker 1: of you know the goal behind it, and yet it

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Speaker 1: still feels very esoteric and nebulous in a way. How

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Speaker 1: refined is this idea. I don't know for a fact

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Speaker 1: of how much the presentation yesterday was legitimate technology and

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Speaker 1: how much of it was Um, stimulation. It seems like

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Speaker 1: a fair amount of it was was stimulated, and they

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Speaker 1: talked about this is something that we're hoping the next

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Speaker 1: five or ten years. Um. You know, we saw any

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Speaker 1: helpless note to say, this is not the iPhone moment.

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Speaker 1: There's no actual device, there's no actual kind of this

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Speaker 1: is uh an imagine well, which which to um, you

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Speaker 1: know Facebook defense. This is something that Google has been

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Speaker 1: doing too, where they talk about, here are these projects

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Speaker 1: that we're working on and then give a demo of

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Speaker 1: a thing that doesn't actually work. Mark internally, How concerned

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Speaker 1: is the company, the board, senior executives about the backlash

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Speaker 1: from Washington and regulators and just the public in general. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we had Emily Chang had senior executive on yesterday.

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Speaker 1: We answered this, I thought in a really telling way. Um,

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Speaker 1: it didn't seem that concerned. I think that they are.

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Speaker 1: They don't see advertisers leaving as far as they know. Um,

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Speaker 1: they don't seem as concerned about it about a breakup. Um,

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Speaker 1: clearly this has been you know, they are they're kind

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Speaker 1: of their positions so far at least both sort of

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Speaker 1: on on the PR side. And then I could say

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Speaker 1: politically has been the fight back a little bit and

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Speaker 1: the pushback on this and to make this a broader

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Speaker 1: issue around not just Facebook but with social media and

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Speaker 1: and to that point, you know, the lawmakers right now

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Speaker 1: are not writing laws about Facebook. They're writing laws about

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Speaker 1: the laws that will effect TikTok, YouTube, Twitter, the rest

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Speaker 1: of the like as supported digital platforms. Hey, Mark, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us giving us that update. Here.

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Speaker 1: Mark Bergen, technology reporter for Bloomberg News, joining us on

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Speaker 1: the phone from San Francisco. Thanks for listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews

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Speaker 1: of Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm

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Speaker 1: Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three.

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Speaker 1: Pet On false Sweeney I'm on Twitter at p T Sweeney.

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Speaker 1: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.