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Speaker 1: This is the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast

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Speaker 1: with i R Radio. This is another Almost Famous special episode. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: there's been a lot that's gone on in Bachelor Nation

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Speaker 1: over the last week. Uh. We do break down this

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Speaker 1: show on this podcast, and so it's important for us

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Speaker 1: to talk about it. Uh. Today we're bringing in somebody.

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Speaker 1: Uh who Uh I know, Ashley, you've been a fan

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Speaker 1: of for a while. His wife is a fan of

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Speaker 1: the show. It's Megan Good And Uh and how did

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Speaker 1: you come across uh, Davon or do you want to

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Speaker 1: tell him in person? I? Okay, Well, Uh, Davon Franklin

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Speaker 1: is gonna be our guest today. Uh. If you don't

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Speaker 1: know of Devon he, I mean his resume is incredible.

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Speaker 1: He's an award winning producer, New York Times best selling author,

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Speaker 1: which I know how hard that is to become, and

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Speaker 1: it's not easy. I am not one of those yet. Um,

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Speaker 1: and a renowned motivational speaker. Uh. He has made this

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Speaker 1: commitment and in his words and his bio, he says

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Speaker 1: he's made a commitment to inspire people around the world

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Speaker 1: through entertainment. Uh. He is definitely a force in media. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He is an inspiration to many. Uh. I'm really pumped

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Speaker 1: to talk to the day because he's one of those

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Speaker 1: people uh again that like I never thought I would

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Speaker 1: have the opportunity to talk to uh. And if you

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Speaker 1: sit down with a in a room with him, I

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Speaker 1: just imagine the wisdom, insight, uh, the things that he

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Speaker 1: could share with anybody. I'm sure people pay a lot

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Speaker 1: of money to hear him speak, and we're lucky enough,

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Speaker 1: um to have him on the podcast today to speak

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Speaker 1: on this topic and to educate us all, to share

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Speaker 1: with us all his thoughts. UH. Now before we get going, UH,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously after the interview with Rachel Lindsay, Chris

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Speaker 1: Harrison UH has now came out with a few apologies.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna read a paraphrase version here for everybody, just

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Speaker 1: because there are long um, but we've come down with

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Speaker 1: the meat of what's going on. I'm gonna read those

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Speaker 1: to you now. This is from Chris Harrison to my

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Speaker 1: Bachelor Nation family. I will always own a mistake when

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Speaker 1: I make one, so I'm here to extend a sincere apology.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday I took a stand on topics which I should

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Speaker 1: not have, which I should have been better informed what

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Speaker 1: I now realized I have done in is cause harm

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Speaker 1: by wrongly speaking in a manner that perpetuates racism, and

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Speaker 1: for that I am deeply sorry. I promised to do

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Speaker 1: better then. Uh, just a few days later, maybe a day,

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Speaker 1: I don't know the exact timeline. Uh. Chris came out

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Speaker 1: with the second apology. Uh. This one is a little longer,

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Speaker 1: so bear with me, uh, he says, and I quote.

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Speaker 1: I've spent the last few days listening to the pain

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Speaker 1: my words have caused, and I'm deeply remorseful. My ignorance

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Speaker 1: did damage to my friends, colleagues, and strangers alike. I

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Speaker 1: have no one to blame but myself for what I

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Speaker 1: said and the way I spoke. I set standards for

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Speaker 1: myself and have not met them. I feel that with

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Speaker 1: every fiber of my being now. I feel that with

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Speaker 1: every fiber of my being now. Just as I taught

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Speaker 1: my children to stand up and own their actions, I

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Speaker 1: will do the same. By excusing historical racism, I defended it.

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Speaker 1: I invoked the oh crap. Oh. I invoked the term

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Speaker 1: woke police, which is unacceptable. I am ashamed over how

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Speaker 1: uninformed I was. I was so wrong to the black

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Speaker 1: community to the b I p o C. Community. I

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Speaker 1: am so sorry my words were harmful. I am listening,

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Speaker 1: and I truly apologize for my ignorance and any pain

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Speaker 1: it caused you. I want to give my heartfelt thanks

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Speaker 1: to the people from these communities who have had enlightening

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Speaker 1: conversations with over the past few days, and I am

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Speaker 1: so grateful to those who have reached out to help

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Speaker 1: me on my path to anti racism. This historic season

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Speaker 1: of The Bachelor should not be marred or overshadowed by

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Speaker 1: the mistake or diminished by my actions. To that end,

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Speaker 1: I have consulted with Warner Brothers and ABC and will

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Speaker 1: be stepping aside for a period of time and will

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Speaker 1: not join the after the final Rows special. I'm dedicated

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Speaker 1: to getting educated on more profound and productive level than

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Speaker 1: ever before. I want to ensure our cast and crew members,

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Speaker 1: to my family, colleagues, and our fans, this is not

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Speaker 1: just a moment, but a commitment to much greater understanding

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Speaker 1: that I will actively make every day. From here. I

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Speaker 1: can only try to evolve and be a better man,

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Speaker 1: and I humble myself before all of you. I hope

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Speaker 1: I will again live up to the expectations you all

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Speaker 1: rightfully have for me and the expectations I have for myself.

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Speaker 1: So following UH, you know, we just read Chris Harrison's

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Speaker 1: apology and and I want to pause here and say

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Speaker 1: that we're having this conversation today, UH, based on the

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Speaker 1: interview that Rachel Lindsay held with Chris Harrison on Extra.

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Speaker 1: Extra is a show that Rachel Lindsay hosts. Now, Rachel

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Speaker 1: Lindsay has continued to use her platform to be bold, UH,

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Speaker 1: to be outspoken, and to continue these conversations that we've

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Speaker 1: needed to have and that we have continued to have

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Speaker 1: UH for a long time. Now. You know, people wiser

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Speaker 1: than me have used the phrase we need to meet

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Speaker 1: the moment, and we do. We also need to follow

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Speaker 1: this moment, UH, to continue to educate, to continue to listen,

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Speaker 1: and to continue to get better from here and now.

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Speaker 1: But we're here today discussing this because of the work

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Speaker 1: that Rachel Lindsay did on Extra in her interview with

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Speaker 1: Chris Harrison. I think it's important that we're having this

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Speaker 1: conversation now after I've had the past few days to reflect.

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Speaker 1: Jared and I have talked about race in this franchise

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Speaker 1: and gone through so many emotions the past couple of days.

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Speaker 1: We listened to the interview with Chris and Rachel multiple times,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we were extremely disappointed. We put out

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Speaker 1: a statement on Friday, which are words that I still

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Speaker 1: stand by. We spent the entire weekend just talking about everything.

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Speaker 1: We listened to Rachel's podcast I'm Higher Learning. We read

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Speaker 1: Charlene's article, which I strongly suggest you guys read It's

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Speaker 1: at all the Pretty pandas dot com. I agree with

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Speaker 1: so much that she says in there, and she's so

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Speaker 1: amazingly articulate. Every time something like this comes up, um

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Speaker 1: and it's just just, you know, it's disappointing, it's um difficult.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk all about it with Devon and

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Speaker 1: get into the interview itself, race issues within the franchise,

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Speaker 1: and the future of both the franchise and Chris all

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Speaker 1: of it. So, coming off of this apology, obviously the

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Speaker 1: dynamic within the Bachelor World and Bachelor Nation has changed.

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Speaker 1: We're here to talk about it today. Uh, We're here

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Speaker 1: to speak on it. And Ashley, I know you're a

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Speaker 1: fan of Devon, so you want to bring him in. Alright, guys,

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Speaker 1: we have um in my opinion, somebody who is perfect

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Speaker 1: for navigating us through this issue. His name is Davon

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Speaker 1: for Glenn, I'm a fan. I read his book The

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Speaker 1: Weight and it was very inspiring. I actually found it

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Speaker 1: on Tanya Rad's desk at the I Heart Station and

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Speaker 1: I go, what's this about. She tell me how it

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Speaker 1: was just about well it's a little unrelated right now,

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Speaker 1: but just romance and how it's worth the weights when

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Speaker 1: it comes into that department. And Devon, just a little

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Speaker 1: a little background. About six months after I read your book,

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Speaker 1: I was engaged, and I was and I was single

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Speaker 1: when I read it. Yeah. Yeah, But but for our audience,

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Speaker 1: you know, thank you. We are talking to him today

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Speaker 1: about you know, um, this whole Chris Harrison conversation and

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Speaker 1: um mistakes that we and others have made in the past.

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Speaker 1: And Devon, in my opinion, is perfect for this because

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Speaker 1: he's he's just a multi he's like really a mogul

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Speaker 1: when it comes to media. He's an award winning producer,

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Speaker 1: he's a New York Times bestseller, he's a renowned motivational speaker. Um,

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Speaker 1: he's made a commitment to inspire people around the world

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Speaker 1: through entertainment, and I can go through his his list

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Speaker 1: of his resume right now, and it's very impressive. He's

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Speaker 1: grossed over one point seven million at the box office

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Speaker 1: UM through some of his movies like The Star and

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Speaker 1: Miracles from Heaven UM and just a little fun note.

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Speaker 1: He's also married to Megan Good, who was one of

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Speaker 1: the prettiest actresses out there. So thanks for coming on, Devon. Oh,

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Speaker 1: no problem, no problems to be here. Great to be

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Speaker 1: with you both. Hey, Dvan, I didn't realize this, but

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Speaker 1: now it's hitting me. I just came out my very

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Speaker 1: first book, UM about two weeks ago, and I have

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Speaker 1: a chapter in there about Tanya rad and she speaks

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Speaker 1: in that chapter the whole chapters on singleness, but she

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Speaker 1: speaks in that chapter about a book that she read

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Speaker 1: that inspired her, made her feel less alone and more loved.

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Speaker 1: And now I'm putting two to two together. That was

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Speaker 1: your book and I wrote about it without knowing whose

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Speaker 1: book was. So hey, that's pretty good stuff right there.

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Speaker 1: That's crazy, that's crazy. It's amazing. Yeah, she's incredible, and

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Speaker 1: that's my sister, and it's amazing just to see, you know,

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Speaker 1: the impact of the way and just you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: look we wrote it from our experience, and it's blessing

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Speaker 1: that it's touched so many people, especially her and you all.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's an honor to be with you the show.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's probably where, I mean, where would

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Speaker 1: be best to start here. So you do a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff, and I think that you know, you're you're all,

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Speaker 1: You're all of the place. What you what you've touched

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Speaker 1: has been successful, You've tasted success, You've I'm sure within

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Speaker 1: that you've tasted some things that haven't been successful. Uh,

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Speaker 1: maybe to give a perspective of where you come from

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Speaker 1: when you in turn and into these things. Why do

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Speaker 1: you do what you do? Yeah, you know a great question.

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Speaker 1: You know why I do what I do is, you know,

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Speaker 1: goes back to the beginning. Um, the middle child of

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Speaker 1: three boys, and when I was nine years old. My

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Speaker 1: father up until that point, you know, until me being nine,

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Speaker 1: he was an alcoholic and he was in now in

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Speaker 1: the house pretty much throughout my whole life. And then

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Speaker 1: when I was nine he died of a heart attack

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Speaker 1: when he was thirty six, and so he left Um. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he left me and my brothers, who raised by my

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Speaker 1: mother and by my grandmother and my grandmother sisters, and

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Speaker 1: so that period of time was very difficult and what

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Speaker 1: really got me through because we didn't have money for

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Speaker 1: you know, for therapy. I mean, you know, we were

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Speaker 1: on welfare. I mean, it was a very difficult moment

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Speaker 1: of time, and it was watching entertainment and going to

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Speaker 1: church that really helped me get through. And movies like

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Speaker 1: Back to the Future and Rocky and the Colored Purple

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Speaker 1: and uh TV shows like a Different World. I mean,

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Speaker 1: those shows just blew my mind and really helped me

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Speaker 1: navigate this period of time. And so I figured, you know,

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Speaker 1: if I can use the combination of what I learned

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Speaker 1: in church, when I'm learning in church and entertainment to

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Speaker 1: help improve people's lives, that was really the why, because

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Speaker 1: I know what it's like to by yourself. I know

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Speaker 1: what it's like to go through tragic moments. I know

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Speaker 1: what it's like to feel like you're all alone. And

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Speaker 1: I really feel like people come to entertainment as to

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Speaker 1: escape their reality, and so what better way to help

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Speaker 1: them in reality than to give them something during that

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Speaker 1: escape worthwhile. So that's really why I do what I do.

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Speaker 1: So you, I believe are a Bachelor fan or you're

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Speaker 1: at least familiar enough with the franchise for this conversation.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, Megan is she's been a she's been

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Speaker 1: a member of Bachelor Nation longer than me. She got

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Speaker 1: me watching. Yeah, that's so exciting. And hear yeah, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I started watching. Um, it had to be

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Speaker 1: at least three or four seasons ago, and so yeah,

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Speaker 1: now I'm just totally hooked. So we just go from Bachelor, Bachelorette,

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Speaker 1: Bachelor in Paradise, the whole is all year, you know,

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Speaker 1: So I've been watching. I watched the whole Bachelorette with

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Speaker 1: Claire and then um uh tysia excuse me, um, and

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Speaker 1: then obviously watching with Matt James every week and and

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Speaker 1: all of it. So yeah, I'm pretty up to speed

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Speaker 1: with what's going on. And I'm waiting week to week

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Speaker 1: to see the news. So I'm very, very familiar with

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Speaker 1: the situation, the circumstances and all that has been going on. Okay,

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Speaker 1: do you have any initial thoughts before we get into

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Speaker 1: specific questions? UM, I got a lot of thoughts. So

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you just get into the questions so

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Speaker 1: that when we can just hear everything you want to

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Speaker 1: you wantakay. I got a lot of thoughts. Alright, well

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Speaker 1: you uh, you came on a day because you are

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Speaker 1: familiar with the situation. Obviously, just if anybody's out there

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Speaker 1: listening who doesn't know what's going on, I mean, um,

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Speaker 1: this last week early on Rachel Lindsay, who hosts for Extra,

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Speaker 1: did interview with Chris Harrison. Uh. Conversations came up about

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Speaker 1: a contestant on the show. Her name is Rachel Um.

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Speaker 1: There are some pictures that were shown of her at

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Speaker 1: an Antebellum themed party. Rachel asked Chris for his response.

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Speaker 1: Uh and uh, and I don't even know it's unless

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Speaker 1: we play the interview. I can't even really summarize his response,

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Speaker 1: but the in short, the response gained a lot of attention.

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Speaker 1: Uh and uh. The attention wasn't necessarily positive for Chris.

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Speaker 1: And at this point in time, Chris is announced that

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Speaker 1: he is stepping away temporarily at this point um from

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Speaker 1: the show. And so if you haven't seen the interview,

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Speaker 1: I just pause this. You know, this conversation here, go

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Speaker 1: watch that. It's going to give you more perspective into

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Speaker 1: what we talk about and how we break down and

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Speaker 1: and try to figure out what's going on with everything

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Speaker 1: with de Von Devon to dig in here. Um, you

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Speaker 1: know I'm coming into this today and I've prayed through this.

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Speaker 1: I told Ashley Naming, I was gonna take an hour

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Speaker 1: before this conversation and pray through it. It always, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, helps at some level, UM, get perspective. I

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Speaker 1: think there's one thing. I was just talking to my

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Speaker 1: fiance up stairs before I came down. I said, I

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Speaker 1: kind of want to start this by by telling you,

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Speaker 1: um that it's it's felt heavy. I think for everybody. Uh,

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Speaker 1: since that interview Rachel has has has felt heavy. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure Chris, uh, you know, feels heavy. I was able

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Speaker 1: to speak with him for for a while last night

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Speaker 1: before this interview. Um, it feels really heavy. And so

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Speaker 1: I want to start by saying, when you're in the

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Speaker 1: midst of a heaviness, right. I was reading uh Morgan

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Speaker 1: Harper Nichols this morning, who I'm having on my show

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Speaker 1: tomorrow night, um, and she talks about when you're in

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Speaker 1: a season of heaviness, like it's hard to see the

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Speaker 1: joy beyond it. It's hard to see any any light

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Speaker 1: beyond anything good coming from it. So when we're in

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Speaker 1: seasons of heaviness, like a lot of people are feeling

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Speaker 1: in this situation others, what do you always recommend doing? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Don't resist it? Mhm. You know. Um, so often where

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Speaker 1: we want to feel good, and there's nothing wrong with

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Speaker 1: that that we all wanted, But when these moments happen,

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Speaker 1: they're happening for a reason. If we look at life

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Speaker 1: as a mirror, sometimes some things get reflected that we

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Speaker 1: wish we didn't see, but they're there, and when we

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Speaker 1: try to push and just get to the good time,

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Speaker 1: we may miss the power and the purpose of the pain.

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Speaker 1: So in this heaviness, and rightfully so, Uh, I would

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Speaker 1: encourage anyone just not to not to rush through it,

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Speaker 1: to evaluate it, to understand this too will pass. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is a season. It's not gonna be this way forever.

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Speaker 1: But what do I need to know in this season?

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Speaker 1: And and how can the heaviness actually be a helper

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Speaker 1: to me? Um? Because sometimes when we have that heaviness,

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Speaker 1: that emotional weight, that's sometimes when we get our greatest revelations,

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Speaker 1: when we get our greatest breakthroughs, when we get to

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Speaker 1: begin to see, Okay, this is where I'm supposed to

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Speaker 1: go this when I'm supposed to do, I realize, oh,

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Speaker 1: there's some things about me I want to change. Seasons

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Speaker 1: of heaviness can come with some of the greatest help

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Speaker 1: we get. So I would just encourage anyone not to

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Speaker 1: encourage yourself, especially don't don't rush through it. Sift through it,

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Speaker 1: see what's there for you, and know that eventually it

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Speaker 1: will pass. You bring up something about like sitting through

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Speaker 1: it um and like really reflecting, and I know that

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Speaker 1: that's something that Ben and I feel is very important

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Speaker 1: in moments like this. We are um, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say pressured, but like really encouraged to speak out

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Speaker 1: immediately and like to react more than to reflect in

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Speaker 1: moments like this. How do you feel about that culture

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Speaker 1: that we're living in where things need to seem to

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Speaker 1: be immediate? Mm hm. So, so it's there's a there's

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Speaker 1: a nuance, and it really depends on the circumstances situation.

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Speaker 1: So if you have nothing to do with the situation, right,

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Speaker 1: then I do think, all right, let me take a

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Speaker 1: minute evaluate what's going on, and then I'll speak when

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Speaker 1: I feel like I feel strong enough to speak. If

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Speaker 1: there's no real other reason why I should be speaking

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Speaker 1: if I'm not the person that's a part of it.

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Speaker 1: In this situation, you know, I know we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: into it. Um. You know, there there is one party

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Speaker 1: that I argue did not speak up soon enough, because

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Speaker 1: in speaking up sooner, some of what we all now

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Speaker 1: our experiencing could have been mitigated. And and because there

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Speaker 1: wasn't a voice, you know, there's there's this scripture, there's

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Speaker 1: this not a scripture is actually saying that this nature

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Speaker 1: abhors a vacuum. So wherever there's a vacuum, nature wants

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Speaker 1: to fill it as it relates to the allegations and

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Speaker 1: and what was what we've been you know what has

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Speaker 1: just recently happened. There was a vacuum because nobody was

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Speaker 1: addressing it and the party privit, who party who was

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Speaker 1: about didn't say anything for for you know, six weeks.

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Speaker 1: So what happens is in that vacuum we find the

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Speaker 1: Chris Harrison situation. Right. So so in this in this scenario,

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Speaker 1: I do think that you have to evaluate where you

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Speaker 1: are in the situation that's being asked to be spoken about,

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Speaker 1: and if you are one of the parties that actually

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Speaker 1: can add light and add clarity to to give emphasis

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Speaker 1: to what really did or didn't happen. I think that

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Speaker 1: that probably makes that that emphasis and that that communication

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Speaker 1: mob priority. Whereas if you are just a bystander, you're

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Speaker 1: just hey commenting, then sometimes it's better to reserve judgment

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Speaker 1: before you know all the facts, and then once you

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Speaker 1: know the facts and how you feel about those facts.

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Speaker 1: Been speaking from an educated point of view is always,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, the best place to speak. So to

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Speaker 1: give clarity what we're talking about is, I mean Rachel

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Speaker 1: kirk Canal. I think that's how you say her last name. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's close enough, and I think it's like, uh, Rachel

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Speaker 1: k let's say that uma Rachel. Uh. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of Rachel's in here, so you need to be clear.

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Speaker 1: Rachel Kah had some allegations out against her for I

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Speaker 1: think it was six weeks, right, These these things were swirling.

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Speaker 1: She knew of them. It wasn't kind of in and

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Speaker 1: it wasn't lost upon her. I know she knew of her,

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Speaker 1: and nothing was said right, nothing was said, and so

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Speaker 1: Chris Harrison ended up needing or being questioned and asked

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Speaker 1: to speak up on her part um. So if we

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Speaker 1: go back to the beginning. Though, if I'm hearing it right,

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Speaker 1: you're what you're saying is Rachel should have Rachel k

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Speaker 1: should have said something. She should have responded to this

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Speaker 1: if she, if she could have, sure. So So I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say two things. I'm gonna address Rachel Kay in

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Speaker 1: a minute. You all know much more about the ins

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Speaker 1: and outs of the Bachelor world in production than I do. Um.

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Speaker 1: One of the many hats that I wear is I'm

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Speaker 1: a producer, so I produced you know, many films, and

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Speaker 1: before I was a producer, I was an executive for

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Speaker 1: Sony Pictures Entertainment, and I've done you know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of movies. So I'm very familiar with production. In my experience,

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Speaker 1: and in my opinion that the Bachelor team, whoever that is,

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Speaker 1: if that's ABC or the Bachelor producers, should have been

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Speaker 1: the first ones to say they're smoke here, we need

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Speaker 1: to deal with this. And she's a contestant on a

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Speaker 1: show and she's in a big machine. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to excuse her. I have some points later which we'll

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Speaker 1: get to, but like when when it all started to

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Speaker 1: smoke to me, the show should have said, wait, we've

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Speaker 1: got to address this now. And put this to bed

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Speaker 1: instead of hoping, seemingly hoping that it would just kind

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Speaker 1: of go away and the chatter online would die. Because

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Speaker 1: what that did was if she if she was not

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Speaker 1: approached by the show and to say, hey, this is

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Speaker 1: a problem, you need to address it, then if she

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Speaker 1: was left to her own devices, I can imagine the

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Speaker 1: fear that she may have had needing to address something

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Speaker 1: that when she ultimately made her statement that she was

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Speaker 1: completely ashamed of and mortified but still had to own

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Speaker 1: up too. But owning up to that those type of

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Speaker 1: things does take courage and it also takes support. Right,

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Speaker 1: So yes, I do think that Rachel should have spoken

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Speaker 1: up way sooner. But I also wonder where was ABC

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Speaker 1: and the Bachelor team in this process and how how

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Speaker 1: effective were they initially when they saw this and trying

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Speaker 1: to to, you know, bring this to to ahead quickly.

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Speaker 1: It's it's an interesting statement and I want to dig

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Speaker 1: into that for a second because it's something that hasn't

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Speaker 1: gotten talked about enough from your I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a producer. I've never produced a show. I've been on

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Speaker 1: a reality television show. I would never claim that my

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Speaker 1: experience or my knowledge of production is vast, so you

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Speaker 1: have been behind the scenes. If there anything inside of you, UM,

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Speaker 1: that could all explain why ABC has a contestant on

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Speaker 1: their show. And there's people hurt by the things that

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Speaker 1: they're hearing, right the black community, the people of color

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Speaker 1: are being hurt by the things that are they're hearing

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Speaker 1: and seeing from what has gone on in the past.

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Speaker 1: ABC knows of this, yet nothing is said for weeks

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Speaker 1: and so people not only is Rachel k hurting and

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Speaker 1: probably feeling I'm imagining based on her statement now really ashamed,

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Speaker 1: really her really confused. Yet the people that you know,

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Speaker 1: she's that have brought out the allegations of her and

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Speaker 1: ABC sitting there saying nothing. Why would that be? You know,

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Speaker 1: you know, listen, UM, it's very hard without being in

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Speaker 1: those rooms just to to speak accurately on on what

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Speaker 1: is or what isn't. UM. You know, my my opinion

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Speaker 1: and my assessment of the situation may have been they

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Speaker 1: probably talked about it. They probably felt like, you know, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's just let's just see how this all kind of

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Speaker 1: plays itself out, you know, let's monitor the chatter. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then it was a situation because Matt James even um,

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Speaker 1: I think did an interview where the question was brought

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Speaker 1: up and he kind of had to you know, he

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Speaker 1: he kind of had it. He was put in a situation,

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Speaker 1: which I think was unfair to put him in that

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Speaker 1: situation to defend something that he really has nothing about.

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Speaker 1: He didn't know anything about the background of these women

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Speaker 1: before getting on the show. He just went on the

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Speaker 1: show and let his heart be his guide and then

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Speaker 1: all this stuff, that stuff started happening. So I would

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Speaker 1: believe that in a situation like this, the network may

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Speaker 1: have felt like, you know what, maybe we can just

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Speaker 1: ride this out, Maybe we don't need to actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: deal with it, because maybe if we deal with it,

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Speaker 1: maybe it'll make it bigger. That made that would be

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Speaker 1: my thought. Again, without being in those rooms. It's really

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Speaker 1: hard to say, because I do think I do think

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Speaker 1: that when you look at and and you know, this

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Speaker 1: is probably getting a little ahead of where we want

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Speaker 1: to be. But I'll say this now, since we're talking

427
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: about the network. This the Bachelor franchise, and I don't

428
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: have to tell you all because you all are a

429
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: part of it, has had a has had a really

430
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: um uncomfortable dance with race from the beginning, And and

431
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: because in my experience with watching the show and just

432
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: what I've known about, you know, the franchise for for years,

433
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: even before I was watching it, that that that disc

434
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: that uncomfort you know, it doesn't go away. And just

435
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: by saying, oh, we've chosen the first black male bachelor,

436
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: you know, the black black bachelor, then okay, we're doing

437
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: It's like no, there's so much that goes on with that.

438
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: And I do think that this situation, it's just a

439
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: symptom of the larger problem that the franchise has not

440
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 1: yet taken the time to really deal with effectively, you know.

441
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: And so when this happens, it's like, oh, wow, we

442
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: can't believe this happened, But it's like, how can we

443
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: not know this wasn't gonna happen? What Rachel k has

444
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: now admitted that she was a part of those things,

445
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: um are hurtful. And we're in a time now where

446
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: years ago it could have just gone away, but now

447
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 1: you know, race and culture and and and and who

448
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 1: we are. It should have always been this way, but

449
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: even now you can't just those things don't get a

450
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 1: blind eye. So I think that because in my experience

451
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: in my opinion, the franchise has turned a blind eye

452
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: too many times that this is a symptom of a

453
00:24:55,359 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: problem that still needs significant UM care. It needs significant

454
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: an instruction on really how to reconcile. You know, this

455
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: franchise that is beloved around the world as it relates

456
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 1: to race, specifically in this country. There's so much in

457
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: that moment that you just said there that I want

458
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: to address UM. But I'll go like with with parts

459
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: right now. Okay. So I actually I reached out to

460
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: some of the women of color from this season and

461
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: one of the women said that they feel like this

462
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: season has been um one step forward, two steps back,

463
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: And I asked her, I go, so, other than this

464
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,239
Speaker 1: extra interview, what have you guys felt has been a

465
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: step back? And she sent me, if you go to

466
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: Bachelor data on Instagram, they do graphs of screen time

467
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: and stuff. We actually had the creator of this account

468
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 1: on and it shows that even though there are more

469
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: women of color than ever on the season, they're still

470
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: getting less screen time. And she also said, is that um,

471
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 1: their love stories were barely featured. She said that they

472
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: chose to feature white women and petty drama instead when

473
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: they didn't have to. She said, we had an amazing

474
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: cast of women of color, and the audience didn't get

475
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: to know them. So I would say that that's one

476
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: of the root issues here in the franchise. Wow. Wow,

477
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: well you're you're hitting the nail on the head. I mean,

478
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: you know again, I'm watching the show and I'm just wondering.

479
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: You know, no, no disrespect to Victorian, and I understand,

480
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: you know, all the you know values she brought. But

481
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: I'm like, yo, okay, we get it right, and we

482
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: get it, we understand it. The queen has spoken, But

483
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: now you are really you know after you know, I

484
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: think the episode or two before she finally was eliminated, Like,

485
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: you're given all this energy and drama to this at

486
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: the expense of these other women that really deserved time.

487
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: So there's an intro statistic. I wasn't aware of it,

488
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 1: but it doesn't surprise. It's uh, you know, it's it's funny.

489
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: The whole time I was able to be on set

490
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: this year. Um, and there's this girl named Maggie who's

491
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: an incredible story. Uh. And the whole time I was

492
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: always hinting on this podcast because I did get the meter.

493
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: I was like I cannot wait for her story to

494
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: be shared, Like I cannot wait for her victories in

495
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: life and her journey in life and her story to

496
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: be shared. It was never shared. Uh, and and I felt,

497
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: you know, and and now it's kind of like every

498
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: you know, um, everything should be uncovered at this point.

499
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: The frustration I think that we were all experiencing, in

500
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: those of us who knew the girls behind the scenes,

501
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: a little bit we're saying was these stories aren't being shared.

502
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: It's frustrating. We need to share them because there's some

503
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: incredible people here and instead, like you said, hey, we're

504
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 1: not this is not a podcast about Victoria or the drama,

505
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: but it is getting overshadowed. Their stories are being overshadowed.

506
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,719
Speaker 1: Their stories are being covered up. This season didn't need

507
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: to go this way. And I think that's just a critique. Um.

508
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: That was you know, un solicited on my part. Hey,

509
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: this season had a lot of potential. It felt very

510
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: far short, and I think I'm hoping now, uh, ABC

511
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: sees that, like I'm hoping that they see that, hey,

512
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: they just missed the mark here. They had a great

513
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: opportunity and it did fall short. Well, speaking of fallen short,

514
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: you know, we are here to discuss um, Chris and

515
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: Rachel Lindsay's interview. Uh, and to start it. Uh, you've

516
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: watched it, correct, I did? Okay? Where did Chris go wrong?

517
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 1: Loaded questions? Sorry, it's okay, It's okay. Listen. I don't

518
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: know Chris Harrison personally from everything I can to help

519
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: from watching the show. You know, he seems to be

520
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: a very good dude, very upstanding. Like you know, I

521
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: have great respect for him, even for someone I have

522
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: not met. Here's where he went wrong? You know. One

523
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: of the other things that I have I do. You know,

524
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: I've been I've been you know, in entertainment since I

525
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: was eighteen years old, so you know, I've had to

526
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: navigate entertainment, you know, as as a black man from

527
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: the beginning and most recently out of services as governor

528
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: for the Academy of Motion Pictures, Arts and Sciences, and

529
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: have done a lot of work around diversity. Here is

530
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: one of the biggest fatal flaws, I believe of the

531
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison interview. We are at a time where you

532
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: we have to and this is this is going to

533
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: be this is a hard thing to do. But BEFO,

534
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: when before you speak on race, especially if you're white,

535
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: you you first have to ask yourself, well, what what

536
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: is my unconscious bias here? And letting me be be

537
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: very careful of not going on and talking about something

538
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: that I hadn't really thought about how the other side feels. First,

539
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: there was there were a number of things I think

540
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: Chris could have done better. Um, you know, the first

541
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: thing is limited to what he knew. I think the

542
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: commentary about the woke police and the commentary about you know,

543
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: oh well when she did that three years ago, you know,

544
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: it was more like those are those those comments were

545
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, Chris, you're you were Chris. We

546
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: were with you when you said you can only speak

547
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: from where you can what you know. But then when

548
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: you started to do that, what happened is he took

549
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: black people's pain and how we feel about how you know,

550
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: white people have trivialized our pain. You know, when you

551
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: look at those Antebellum parties, it's just a trivialization of

552
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: black pain. It's making fun of it. Hey, we're gonna

553
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: make fun of what you all actually had to go

554
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: through for our party, right like, and that's painful, and

555
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: it was never in fashion, then it's not in fashion

556
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: now and and and so I think that to speak

557
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: in a way that was so pallas because of his

558
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: unconscious bias. He did not have an intent to hurt.

559
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: I don't believe. I do not believe that Chris Harrison

560
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: had malice in his heart. Yet this is one of

561
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: the challenges that we face when we deal with where

562
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: we are today, and when we talk about white people

563
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, race. One of the things I

564
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: consistently but up against is especially when someone you know

565
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: is used white identifies as liberal. Sometimes they're one of

566
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: there's some of the most difficult people to to help

567
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: see this issue because they kind of come from and say,

568
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: oh no, I'm not like those people. I'm not racist,

569
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not prejudiced. I'm for everybody. But as

570
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: a man, right, I can do my best to be

571
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: sensitive to women's issues, but I also have to learn

572
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: to listen because I'm not a woman, and there are

573
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: some things that women go through that I don't have

574
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: any business speaking on. I just have to listen. And

575
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: I think too often when it comes to race, to

576
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: me and my experienced white men especially feel too comfortable saying,

577
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: oh no, if this is why we're passes, we're good

578
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: you you when you when we are the ones from

579
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: those people of color who have experienced the pain, you

580
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: can't tell us it's time to heal. That healing takes

581
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: place when it takes place. So I think Chris went

582
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: went wrong in my opinion when he really contextualized this

583
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: whole thing as the wote police and Rachel's is an

584
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: adult not holding her accountable. Meaning listen, if he knew

585
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,959
Speaker 1: what he knew to say, listen, I know what I know.

586
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: She needs to speak for herself and my my hope

587
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: as once he speaks for herself, it will add clarity

588
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: to her actions. We as the Bachelor you know nation

589
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: Bachelor team, we are for everybody. We understand the sensitivity

590
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: out there. We know people are hurting by this and

591
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: we are getting to the bottom of it, and you

592
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: we're making a statement soon soon. If then it ended there,

593
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: it would have addressed what was going on. It would

594
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: have taken leadership. It would have showed which side the

595
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: production and the team was really on. But I think

596
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: when he started to veer into his own point of

597
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: view about the Wow police and about oh, you know,

598
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: disforgive ors you know, it's like she's fine, it's like no, no, no,

599
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: no no. That's when it goes too far. And as

600
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: somebody who is a fan of Chris Harrison, I say

601
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: all of these things in love because if you know,

602
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: if we can't teach each other in moments like this,

603
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: if we can't have civil conversations, then we can never

604
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: make progress. So I don't say any of these things

605
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: to disparage him, but I say these things to say, hey,

606
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: here's really where it went wrong. So do you feel

607
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: like people who have said things like Kristen this interview

608
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: or gone to parties like Rachel has are they racist

609
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: or are they ignorant in your opinion? Well, um, listen,

610
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: I am not going to make a judgment about who

611
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: someone is. Uh. In a lot of ignorance, there are

612
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: a lot of racist things done. So I would go

613
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: as far as to say someone going to an Antebellum

614
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: party uh, in their ignorance, is committing and participating in

615
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: a racist event. And given the time that we are in,

616
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: it's really hard for me to believe that someone who

617
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: is an adult is not aware of the history of

618
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: the Antebellum and the history of these parties and the

619
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: understanding that they are derogatory in nature, that does not

620
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: make them. This is me speaking because other black people

621
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: and other folks may feel totally different. I don't deem

622
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: that person a racist because I don't know that person

623
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: and I and I resist the temptation to judge anyone

624
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: in their character until I don't know them, so I

625
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: can talk about the action. It's a racist action. It's

626
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: a racist event. And sometimes at ignorance definitely leads us.

627
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: It leads, you know, in those situations to participate in

628
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: things that otherwise they shouldn't have participated in. So again,

629
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: I don't know Rachel Kay at all, so I am

630
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: definitely not calling her racist by any stretch of the imagination. However,

631
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: in her ignorance, she absolutely participated in a racist event.

632
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: So for you personally, um, because you can speak on

633
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: this and actually I cannot. But you see this event, right,

634
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 1: and uh, and I I was unfamiliar with this these

635
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: kind of events until recently. Uh, they became a more

636
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 1: apparent to me that it is. Uh. And I think

637
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: Chris really didn't hit this well, but I think he

638
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: was trying to was like, these these are not an

639
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: uncommon party and and at Southern universities. These are not

640
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: things like I should have known that these parties existed. Uh,

641
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: And I think universities are now stepping in and stopping them.

642
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: But these have been going on for a long time

643
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: and they're and they're not okay. Um. But a lot

644
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: of people participated in them, maybe not knowing the significance

645
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: or the meaning to them. So now we have the

646
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: Rachel k scenario, we have these pictures coming out. She's

647
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: not responded well. Now that we've brought up Rachel's apology,

648
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: I do want to read um what we think is

649
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: some of the most important bullet points, not the entire apology.

650
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: If you do want to read her entire apology, you

651
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: can see it on her Instagram. She says, I was ignorant,

652
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: but my ignorance was racist. I am sorry to the

653
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: communities and individuals and my actions harmed and offended. I'm

654
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: ashamed about my lack of education, but it is no

655
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: one's responsibility to educate me. She says she will continue

656
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: to learn how to be anti racist, and that it

657
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: is important to speak up in the moment and not

658
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: after you're called out. I deserve to be held accountable.

659
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: She says for her actions, I will never grow unless

660
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: I recognize eyes what I have done is wrong. I

661
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: don't think one apology means that I deserve your forgiveness,

662
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: but rather I hope that I can earn your forgiveness

663
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: through my future actions. What is the appropriate response back

664
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: to her, as she's I'm imagining and we're putting words

665
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 1: in her mouth. But just from her statement that we read,

666
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure she was scared hurting learning a ton um uh, confused?

667
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know all those things that you imagine

668
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: that you get when when chaos is around you and

669
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: you're like learning a bunch at one time and everything

670
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: the world's kind of falling down around you. What then,

671
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: is the response to her, as she admits, or at

672
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: least as far as we know, have said, Hey, I'm

673
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: taking this opportunity to learn and understand just how painful

674
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: the decisions I made in my past are. And where

675
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: do we go with with her in mind? And so

676
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: when you say, what is the response? I tell me

677
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: for the response from who you know? Like what if

678
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 1: you say, what is the response? Like you know, how

679
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,919
Speaker 1: how should the comment be handled? Like? Give me some more? Yeah?

680
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: So I mean I think when I say that, I'm

681
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: meaning right now, it's loud. On social media especially, it's

682
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: very loud, and I would imagine that's coming from people

683
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: of all different races. Um. But I think when it

684
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: comes to uh, people of color, you you can speak

685
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: to the response to appropriate. There's a response maybe you

686
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: want to see or that you feel would be most

687
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: healthful and helpful. That would be I think the right.

688
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: But see here's but here's the truth again. How much

689
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: background checks that you've got to go through before you

690
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: get on the show. Yeah plenty. Yeah, Okay, okay, okay.

691
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 1: So so if she if she again, let's just spoke

692
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: to this for a minute, if she saw, Oh, Matt James,

693
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna he looks great. I want to you know,

694
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: he could be my husband. I'm gonna I'm gonna go

695
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 1: and apply for the Bachelor. I'm gonna go through the process.

696
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: They're gonna go through my whole background. They're gonna come,

697
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: they come back to me and say, you are clear,

698
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: we welcome to the show. We want to have you.

699
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: So she's like, great, you know what whatever she whatever

700
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: men she may have made personally for those things, we

701
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: don't know, right because the show wasn't really asking that

702
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: she went through the process. So here's the here's the

703
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: crazy part. So if she went through the background check,

704
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: and she went through everything, and then now as a

705
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: part of the show, these things come out, let's just

706
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: pause for a minute. Again. This is why I go

707
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: back to when we talk about the Chris Harrison and

708
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: we talk about the show. There has to be a

709
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: greater sensitivity to these things when these things are checked out.

710
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: Because if I'm Rachel, like I think your response to

711
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: Rachel is thank you, you know, glad for your sensitivity

712
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: and and and for me, it's like she just has

713
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: to continue with the show, letting that decide at the

714
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: end of the day if he if she is the

715
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 1: right bit for him or not, and if he feels

716
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: good about her her apology or not. But where the

717
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: show failed was let it get this are Why was

718
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: this not caught in the background check? And if it

719
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: was caught, why was a blind I turned That's where

720
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: it starts, because if you for her, I'm just again

721
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: I'm not excusing her actions. She needs to be held accountable.

722
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: I'm so I thought her statement felt very heartfelt. And

723
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: here's what I know. She will continue to do this

724
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: work for the rest of her life. And she seems

725
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: very serious about that. And when I say do this work,

726
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: meaning like, okay, you know what, I'm not going to

727
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: be the person that contributes to racist activity. I do

728
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: want to be the person that is positive and that

729
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: does bring people together and that learns and listens. She

730
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: seemingly from that statement, seems like that's who she wants

731
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: to be. And no matter what, now that this show

732
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: is going to live with her for the rest of

733
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: her life, She's gonna be forced to deal with race,

734
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 1: no matter if she likes it or not, to some degree,

735
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: for the rest of her life. So that's what's gonna

736
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: happen with her. But why did it get here? The

737
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: fact that God here is not her fault. That's the

738
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: art that I think we have to look at and

739
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: what I would I think when we talk about what's

740
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: happening online, it's very easy again to tear somebody down,

741
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 1: you know, it's easy to tear her down. It's easy

742
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: to tear Chris down. I understand that. But neither of

743
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: them operate in a vacuum. And so when we talk

744
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 1: about what's happening inside of this universe called the Bachelor,

745
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,919
Speaker 1: there's a larger thing that needs to be addressed on

746
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: how do we deal with these issues once and for all?

747
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,479
Speaker 1: And again, I don't know anybody involved with the show.

748
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: I had a couple of meetings with Rob Mills, you know,

749
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: just on the general you know, two years ago. He's

750
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: cool dude. I think he's a great guy. Again, I

751
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 1: don't know him personally. We you know, we had a

752
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: we had a great meeting. So I don't really know

753
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: how it all works, as my point, but these are

754
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: the things that need to be talked about. So the

755
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: response to me to Rachel is thank you for your statement,

756
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: and let's see how you fare on the rest of

757
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: the show. The response to me to the Bachelor operation

758
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 1: is hold up, something has got to be done. You

759
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: cannot take this and sweep this under the rug. What

760
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 1: is going on? Why does there seem to be an insensitivity?

761
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: Why do you know even with Matt James, when Matt

762
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: James is telling again this is just my two sense.

763
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 1: I don't even know who listens how, you don't know

764
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: if I'm been getting trouble in it is what I'm saying.

765
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: What you guys caught me here to say, which is

766
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: even when when Matt James sits down with Chris at

767
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: the beginning of the season and he's talking about how

768
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: difficult it is, you know, to be a as a

769
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: black man. Why couldn't the back to get somebody black

770
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,919
Speaker 1: to they say, Yo, Bro, let's okay, Bro, You're gonna

771
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: be all right. It's not the same, And so I

772
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: don't disparage Chris, but it's like that moment, I'm like, Yo,

773
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: there's there's some there's a disconnect. You can't just put

774
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: somebody of color in the situation and plug in play

775
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: and think it's just gonna be the same situation. It's not.

776
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that there's different rules, but there's a

777
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 1: different nuance that in terms of how things are experienced

778
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: and how people feel right, and I just feel like

779
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: the show doesn't consistently deal with that. So the response

780
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: to Rachel is, thank you for your statement. Let's see

781
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: where the season ends up. It's ultimately up to Matt

782
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: and it's his choice to make. The response to the

783
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:21,720
Speaker 1: show is we gotta have a conversation as a fan,

784
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: as somebody who's watched Rachel have one of the stronger

785
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: connections this season, and now that she's acknowledged her past mistakes,

786
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: and I like, you feel like it was it was

787
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: it was a good apology, you know, I felt like

788
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: she had true remorse and awareness. Um. And I really

789
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: do think that she wants to change for the better.

790
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: But now I'm conflicted as far as like, as a fan,

791
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: do I root for this coupling? Can you help me

792
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: work there? This failing? I have listen, listen, listen again.

793
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: It's so hard without really getting in depth for her story.

794
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: You know, like she knew Matt. I mean, I mean

795
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: she went on the show. I mean you know she again,

796
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: I don't know or she doesn't seem to be chased

797
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 1: a cloud, you know, cloud chaser or something like that,

798
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: Like she seems to be genuinely interested. I agree with you.

799
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: You know, her date, the whole Cinderella date was like amazing.

800
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: Their connection seemed incredible. She doesn't seem like she's playing

801
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: for the cameras. In my opinion, she seems very genuine

802
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: about the whole thing. So, you know, I think that

803
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: as a fan. Um, I think the prayer is from

804
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,399
Speaker 1: Matt's heart, you know that that Matt. Maybe we want

805
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 1: Matt to make the right decision. It seems based upon

806
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: Matt having the interview he did that I'm assuming he's

807
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: been brought up to speed or again, I don't know

808
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 1: in terms of how production works and what we see

809
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: and how many more episodes, I don't know all that.

810
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: But I would just still root for for love to win.

811
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: I mean, let's not let this moment make a cynical

812
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 1: about love. Love works, love wins, and love will find

813
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: a way even in a situation like this. And I

814
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: do believe that if if Rachel and Matt are meant

815
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: to be to get of it, then love is going

816
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: to see them through this. And and so I do

817
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: think that if if that is, if you you know

818
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: your your couple, root form, root form, and love, you know,

819
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 1: pray that there that that is that a is hard,

820
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,439
Speaker 1: is open, and her heart is open, and that maybe

821
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: this is the thing, this experience is what she needed

822
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: to then become the spokesperson to other white men and

823
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: women on hey, we can't do this, this is not

824
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: how we go about this. And maybe there's a major

825
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: blessing that's gonna come out of all of this. But

826
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: in terms of rooting, I would still root for them.

827
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: I still would, you know, pray for them and let's

828
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: see if the problem where the process takes uh you know,

829
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: where love takes us at the end of the day,

830
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: vandi a few minutes to stick with us. I think

831
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: this conversation is one that you know, there's a few

832
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: things that you said that I really want to get

833
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,919
Speaker 1: your I've got as much time as you need. Uh, well,

834
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: thank you for that. Uh you you said the word accountability.

835
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: Accountability has been uh but obviously thrown around a lot.

836
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 1: I think it was used when you know, Chris announced

837
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,439
Speaker 1: that he is stepping away from the show. He's gonna

838
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: be held accountable. I think, uh, you know, as I

839
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 1: looked online, a lot of the words that were being

840
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 1: used to Rachel and to Chris where we need to

841
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: hold them accountable. Uh. I would love to get your

842
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: idea of healthy helpful maybe would be the better uh

843
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: or to use in front of that accountability, like how

844
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: do we um if we're sitting there and Rachel really

845
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: does say I want to be a spokesperson. I want

846
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: to teach people my lessons learned and speak out of that.

847
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: And maybe you know I talked to Chris last night.

848
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: I know he is in the process right now. Of

849
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: consuming a lot, learning a lot. He's very humbled, I

850
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: mean like humbled and not like, oh I'm such a

851
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: humble man. Like he's just like feeling the weight of this, right,

852
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: and he's very open to like hearing from from really

853
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 1: uh knowledgeable sources on how to get better. Uh. So,

854
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 1: with those things in mind, if that's where we're coming from,

855
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: how do we give helpful accountability? Right? Okay? Good? So?

856
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: So I think that helpful accountability is different for for

857
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: Chris and for racial So let's deal with Chris first.

858
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: So I think with with Chris, it really goes back to,

859
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: you know, that accountability, which is really helpful is to

860
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 1: hold them, hold them accountable being honest, like, bro, we

861
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: love you and you missed it. We love you and

862
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 1: you heard us, and and here's why you heard us.

863
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: You know, when I go back and I think about

864
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 1: that interview, um, I think all of us have have

865
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:38,280
Speaker 1: strong feelings about about cancel culture, right, and how cancel

866
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: culture just moves so quickly, and I think we all

867
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: feel like, wait, wait a minute, hold on, I think,

868
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: but but the problem was looking at things through a

869
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: white lens prevented him to see that it wasn't just

870
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: about cancel culture. It was like, oh no, there's a

871
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: really serious issue of racism and prejudice that goes really deep.

872
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: So let me not a how that that my lens

873
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: of you know, of of unconscious bias to not allow

874
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: me to see what's really going on. So one of

875
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: the keys to healthy accountability is unconscious bias training. Can

876
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: you elaborate on that a little bit? Yes, So they're

877
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: there there. You know, when you go through unconscious bias training,

878
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: it's a real process. You know, that is many times

879
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: it's it's hours long where you sit with the professional

880
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: and you they walk you through, you know, scenarios and situations.

881
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: You know, where you understand you begin to learn like,

882
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: oh god it I didn't know when I said that

883
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: that was actually presidented you know, Oh I didn't realize

884
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,399
Speaker 1: that was an area of sensitivity. Oh my goodness, Wow,

885
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: I didn't know that I had a blind spot. So

886
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: unconscious biased training I think is critical, UM, in this

887
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 1: in this day and age for anyone endeavoring to navigate

888
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: race racial issues successfully. And so I think healthy and

889
00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: helpful accountability for Chris Harrison would be absolutely in aging

890
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: and unconscious biased training. UM. And and you know if

891
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: I if I was a part of the process or

892
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 1: we could recommend to them, I said, yeah, he should

893
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 1: put his process should not just be something that he

894
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 1: generates like it should be Yeah, he's gonna do his work,

895
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: but there should also be some professional work that is

896
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: put in place to really help ensure that this type

897
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: of thing never happens again. So that's part of it.

898
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: The other part of it is, you know, Chris is

899
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 1: like family, right, so when when we're family, we can

900
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: be honest with each other. We could say, hey, this

901
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 1: didn't feel good. You know, it doesn't mean we don't

902
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 1: love him any any less. It's just like you know, again,

903
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: I don't love him any less. I know there's people,

904
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: you know, saying all these other things I'm saying as

905
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: a fan of the Aastornation, I support Chris Harrison. I

906
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: love Chris Harrison from what I know. But I also know, like, bro,

907
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: there's a real big opportunity for you to learn and

908
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: come through this much stronger, much better than the way

909
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: you went in and then and the thing to not

910
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: do a in it just just be dismissive and callous

911
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 1: about people's pain and situations that you are not well

912
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,919
Speaker 1: versed on. And here's the other thing. Rachel's a grown woman.

913
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 1: You don't have to speak for her. You don't have

914
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: And this is where we as men get in trouble.

915
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 1: We think we've gotta be speaking for everybody. Know, let

916
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: people speak to himselves. He didn't need to be. And

917
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,439
Speaker 1: I think that's where one of these where he went wrong.

918
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: He started speaking for her. He didn't need to speak

919
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 1: for her. Let her speak for him, let her speak

920
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: for herself. Unlet's see what's gonna happen in terms of

921
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: healthy accountability for Rachel. It's a tougher assessment because unlike

922
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison, Rachel, I mean, unlike you know, unlike Chris Harrison,

923
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: Rachel has not gone on camera, She has not been

924
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: asked questions. We don't really know, you know, her feeling

925
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 1: and what led her here. Clearly those things happened years ago.

926
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,240
Speaker 1: Clearly she knew the blacker the bachelor was gonna be black,

927
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: and clearly she went ahead and and and and you know,

928
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 1: applied anyway, and clearly seems to be falling in love

929
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 1: with the black man. So you know, without hearing from

930
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: her her opinion on all of that, it's really hard

931
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: to make an assessment on what that healthy accountability will be.

932
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: Do I believe that everyone should get a chance to

933
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: make amends for their past. Do I think you should

934
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: always hold up a mirror to someone's past. Um? Not

935
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,399
Speaker 1: in all situations, but in this situation with Rachel, it's

936
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: really hard to know what accountability is gonna look like

937
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: without hearing more from her. What about accountability when it

938
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: comes to Chris? There's so many people calling for his jobs,

939
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,720
Speaker 1: saying that in order to take full accountability, he needs

940
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: to permanently step down. How do you feel about that? Yeah,

941
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: and I listen, I may again, I'm not sure you

942
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: know what the majority of minority is. Um. In terms

943
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 1: of social sentiment, I'm listening to the loud social media right.

944
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: You know I am not in favor of that. You know,

945
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: I think that, come on, think that Chris Harrison has

946
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: put his heart and soul into this franchise. Uh. You know,

947
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: I think that these moments are moments when you know

948
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: you make a mistake, uh, and hopefully you learn from

949
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: it and and then you become better for it. And

950
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: not only do you become better, but the franchise becomes better. Uh.

951
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 1: So I my hope and prayer is that this is

952
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,439
Speaker 1: a massive teaching moment um. But I do not share

953
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: the sentiment that because of what he said and how

954
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: he said it, that that should be um that he

955
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: is fired now again. I know, you know, some people

956
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: feel differently about that, and I get that, but I

957
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 1: think that there's too much potential good that can come

958
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: from this for Chris, for the Bachelor, for the network,

959
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: and for all of the millions of fans. To me,

960
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: there's too much potential good to to allow him to

961
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: be fired over this. I would much rather this be

962
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 1: a teaching moment where he really understands the error of

963
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 1: his ways, he makes the men ends, and he does

964
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: his work from now until and as a result, everyone

965
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 1: else in the franchise, the franchise becomes different. You know,

966
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 1: in moments like this, sometimes are the very best teachers,

967
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,959
Speaker 1: because otherwise the franchise may have just kept rolling, rolling, rolling,

968
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 1: still doing the stuff that isn't really for all people.

969
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 1: But the potential good that can come out of this

970
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 1: is much greater to me than letting him lose his

971
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: job over As a friend of Chris's, I love your

972
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 1: take on that. That is my hope for the franchise

973
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 1: as well, but we can't. Okay. So with all that

974
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: being said, and even though yeah, you know, and I

975
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: don't think it's a secret. Like Chris is a friend

976
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: of mine, Like I talked to him last night, right,

977
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: I want to be there through it. I don't think

978
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: what he said and how he said it was good.

979
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: I think it was harmful. Um, I told him that

980
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: he knows that that's how we feel it, so he

981
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: now knows that's how a lot of people feel. But

982
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: with that being now in mind and what you just

983
00:53:54,400 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: said also, um, how do we still then? Okay? And

984
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: this is gonna be phrase weird? My my questions. I

985
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:05,919
Speaker 1: in my life, I've I've learned a lot from pain,

986
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: and I've learned a lot from failure, and I've learned

987
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: a lot from messing up. I haven't learned that much

988
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: through times of success. It's just maybe an error in

989
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: my ways. Usually in success, I just celebrate and I

990
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 1: just keep rolling right. Well, the show is now hitting

991
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: a point where it feels like there's a lot of

992
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 1: pain and there is some massive apparent failures. So as

993
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: fans of the show, how do we sit back and

994
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: still celebrate? Now? This maybe the slower progress. Actually the

995
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: quicker progression, then maybe it would have been if they

996
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: just would have kept rolling with it. How do we

997
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 1: recognize it, celebrate it, get behind it, help could help

998
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: push it forward, help keep pushing Chris Ford, because right

999
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 1: now it feels like and again I said, like the

1000
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: world of the Bachelor is falling down, like it feels

1001
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: very quick that the show could just be gone next year,

1002
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: which I do believe, and I'm not the one to

1003
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: say it, but like it would be a mistake because

1004
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: I do think there's a lot of learning that can

1005
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:05,439
Speaker 1: be done, um from the millions that watched the show.

1006
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: So how do we how do we walk in that balance?

1007
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 1: I guess you you've gotta walk in in the balance

1008
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 1: through um let me let me separate it, right, because

1009
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: there's a there's the fan, how do we walk in

1010
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: the balance, and then there's the production in the show

1011
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 1: and the network and how do they walk in the balance?

1012
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 1: What we ultimately can will receive has so much to

1013
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: do with what they do or don't do. So I

1014
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: would say to anyone who's in bassind nation, first and foremost,

1015
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 1: you have these you know, um uh contestants on this

1016
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: show right now, who literally are bearing their heart and

1017
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:57,760
Speaker 1: soul to the world looking for love. So so still

1018
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,919
Speaker 1: route that love is going to find a way with

1019
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: those who are on the show right now. So let's

1020
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 1: just make sure we're not throwing the baby out of

1021
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,720
Speaker 1: the bath water. Let's let's say, Okay, the show is happening.

1022
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: They're they're just in it, right, They're innocent bystandards. All

1023
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: this is happening around them. Listen, we gotta hope they

1024
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: find left. Let's put that to the side. As fans,

1025
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 1: I think we have both hopes. We can hope that

1026
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: the show endures, and we hope that the show gets better,

1027
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 1: and we hope that that that that Chris and the

1028
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 1: network do their work in order to fix this show

1029
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,240
Speaker 1: so that we all can get behind it and stay

1030
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 1: behind it with a clear conscience. But as fans, I

1031
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,800
Speaker 1: think the most powerful thing we have is our voice,

1032
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: and so what you're hearing are a lot of voices

1033
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: that need to be listened to. It doesn't mean that, oh,

1034
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: the voices that are calling for Chriss, you know, firing

1035
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:51,800
Speaker 1: that Okay, wow, we have such a sentiment we're just

1036
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 1: gonna go by what they say. No, I think what's

1037
00:56:54,880 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: the undercurrent is a lot of frustration built up over years.

1038
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: So it's all this frustration that's now now there's a

1039
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 1: because guess what, the Bachelor as a as an entity,

1040
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 1: as a morphous outside of Chris Harrison. So the moment

1041
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 1: that Chris does this, first of all, he's always been

1042
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: the face of the Bachelor, but now he becomes the

1043
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: face of the antagonism because oh wow, now we have

1044
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: someone to direct our anger to. But really we're angry

1045
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: that we don't always feel seen and heard by this

1046
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: show that we love so much. So where do we go?

1047
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: I think we go to a place of letting cooler

1048
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: heads prevail. I think the network the show has to

1049
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: do their work and they have to earn the respect

1050
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: of those fans that are really upset right now, and

1051
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 1: they should not just turned a blind eye and say, oh,

1052
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: that's a there's a friends group of people, know, so

1053
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 1: you know what, there's a lot of people upset about

1054
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: there out there. But what the wrong move is to

1055
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: me is to fire Chris and then say, okay, we

1056
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: let Chris go. You know now we fixed our problem.

1057
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 1: No you haven't, because any other hopes that's going to

1058
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: come into the same system is going to be subject

1059
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: to the same system. I think that for Bachelor Nation,

1060
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: this is a moment of powerful reckoning if everyone chooses

1061
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 1: to see it that way. But so much of this

1062
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: responsibility falls on the shoulders of the network and the

1063
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: producers of the show to to really look at this

1064
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 1: as a teachable moment and learn the lesson and do

1065
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: the best they can to make the show better because

1066
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 1: of it. As you speak, it's um, it's just like

1067
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 1: it's it's reminding me of over the last few years. Right,

1068
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: my fiance grew up in the South. Um. She talked

1069
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: about it on her Instagram, but you know, there's a

1070
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: lot of traditions in the South that you know. I

1071
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 1: think she went to Old Miss up until a couple

1072
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: of years ago. Dixie was still their fight song, right

1073
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: like her one of her best friends from college. I

1074
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: was with her this weekend and she's black and she

1075
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: was talking to us. She's like, can you believe that

1076
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: I went out there with pom poms and cheered to

1077
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: the song Dixie for years, four years of my college experience,

1078
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: and that was so let's look at the old Miss,

1079
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 1: you know, in the comparison of like Old Miss Ish

1080
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: the Bachelor world, and like, so it's always interesting actually

1081
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: talk about lot how these scenarios within the Bachelor can

1082
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 1: transcend into our regular life, Like we can take examples

1083
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 1: that are happening on the show and move them into

1084
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: our experiences off this show. And I'm listening to what

1085
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 1: you're saying right now, and what I'm I'm what I'm

1086
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: hearing is and what I'm feeling is this, Like, now

1087
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: it's time for me to do better, It's time for

1088
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: Ashley to do better, It's time for all of us

1089
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 1: to do better. And say, this is a teachable moment

1090
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: for us all to not just push it on the

1091
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 1: rug and say, Okay, I'm gonna delete this picture because hey,

1092
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: in college, you know, uh, in college I dressed up

1093
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: as something. No, this is a moment to say, I'm

1094
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna own this, understand the pain that was

1095
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: caused in this, learn from it, grow from it, and

1096
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 1: now become an advocate because at least the people I

1097
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: want to associate with my life and are people that

1098
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: don't want to cause more pain to this world is

1099
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: already enough. We want to be people that try to

1100
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: help and not hurt. And so now it's like, Okay,

1101
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: these things hurt, these things are painful, and tell me

1102
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong here. But I'm just trying to, like

1103
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: here what you're saying, so that I'm taking this out

1104
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: into the world and for the fans of the show

1105
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 1: can take this out in the world and say, now

1106
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: it's time for us. All that we've we've we've seen

1107
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: the example of it, it's now time for us to

1108
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 1: get better. It's it's been time for us to get better.

1109
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 1: Maybe we've tried to get better, but like this is

1110
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 1: another reminder of continuing to do the work so less

1111
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: pain has caused. Yeah, no, Ben, I think what you're

1112
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 1: saying is is true, and I think that um it

1113
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: is commendable because you're You're absolutely right, Like it's about

1114
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: doing that work. It's about saying, okay, yeah, how can

1115
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 1: I you know, as a white man or a white woman,

1116
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 1: how can I take this and say, Okay, you know,

1117
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,439
Speaker 1: what can I learn from it? How can I become better?

1118
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: Maybe there's something I didn't know, but there's something I've

1119
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 1: done in my path. Maybe are things I've said, Maybe

1120
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 1: there's people I've associated with that instead of being ashamed

1121
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: only about those things, saying all right, you know what,

1122
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: I want to be a part of the change that

1123
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: I want to see in this world. So I'm going

1124
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 1: to contribute to that. And I do think that in Bachelor,

1125
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: you know nation, it's similar to our nation, you know,

1126
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 1: where some you know, some some people are so upset

1127
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 1: that this is even a conversation. Some people are just mad,

1128
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: you know that, Oh, this is just you know, we

1129
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: should just you know, ignore that. And and we gotta say,

1130
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: Chris and all these different things. Here's the reality in

1131
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: any family, you know, you gotta love everybody, and you've

1132
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: got to hear everybody's point of view. And I think

1133
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 1: that in a moment like this when you talk about

1134
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, both you and Ashley you know, have been

1135
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: a big part of this this franchise and still continue

1136
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: to be and so many others. I do think that it's, uh,

1137
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,439
Speaker 1: it's a moment of reckoning. You know, it's a moment

1138
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: of reckoning. Um. But I want to be I want

1139
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: to be I want to be very um clear about something.

1140
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 1: It's not a moment of guilt. And here's what I

1141
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: mean by that. As a white person, you can feel

1142
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 1: badly about things you've said or done, as as a

1143
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: black person. I don't want your guilt about those things. No,

1144
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: what is meeting? No? No No, no, Just tell what you're

1145
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 1: gonna do about it. Acknowledge it, say hey, I'm not

1146
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 1: gonna run from it, not sweeping on the rug. I

1147
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: did it. Here's what I'm doing about it. Cool. So

1148
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: I think that in this moment, you know, it's like

1149
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 1: this idea, you know that that that Oh my goodness.

1150
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: You know if I'm white, you know, can I talk

1151
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: about race and I'm not talking about race? Of course

1152
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: you can talk about race. What if you don't know

1153
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 1: what to say, that's okay. It's better to say I

1154
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 1: don't know exactly what to say here, but here's what

1155
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 1: I'm trying to are. It's better to say something that

1156
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 1: to say nothing. And it's better to engage in uncomfortable

1157
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 1: conversations around race and get to a comfortable place than

1158
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: to never have it at all. So that is a

1159
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: perfect transition into counter into cancel culture, because we need

1160
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 1: to talk more, you know, UM, in order to get better, UM,

1161
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: in order to educate ourselves. We need to have these conversations.

1162
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 1: But I think what's so scary for us is that

1163
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 1: it seems like we live in such a heated, devisive

1164
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: world where if you make a mistake and it's not

1165
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: out of malice, it's out of true ignorance, or you

1166
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:32,439
Speaker 1: just simply didn't word something right like, you're at risk

1167
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 1: of getting canceled. And I just think that cancel culture

1168
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 1: and progress in this are just at each other, like

1169
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: they just butt heads so much. What do we do

1170
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: about it? Yeah? You know this is this is very

1171
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 1: very true. Um, you know, there is this the cancel

1172
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: culture that's ready, like literally ready to go to work

1173
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:55,440
Speaker 1: if there's anything out of line that anyone says at

1174
01:03:55,480 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 1: any time, depending on what your situation is. I think

1175
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 1: that because of that, when it comes to race and

1176
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 1: talking about race again, I go back to what we

1177
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 1: talked about Chris Harrison already understanding the power of cancel

1178
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 1: cross culture either doing one of two things, saying I

1179
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: need to get go, I need to go get educated

1180
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 1: on these issues before I speak, or saying you know what,

1181
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 1: I don't know enough yet, you know and and and

1182
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 1: and then also framing into a question, you know, what

1183
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 1: would be the right response for a white woman in

1184
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 1: this situation? What would be the right response for a

1185
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: white man? What is okay to say and not okay

1186
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 1: to say, Like framing it into a question that then

1187
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 1: you get feedback on helps prepare you to know what

1188
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: to say. It is, it is okay to say I

1189
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 1: actually don't know what to say. I'm not entirely sure,

1190
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 1: but I do want to say something. You know, so

1191
01:04:57,720 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: here's my heart. How do I say it will be

1192
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 1: the best way to do to it. That's how I

1193
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 1: think how you would do it, so that that way

1194
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: you are engaging in the culture, You're letting the culture

1195
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 1: know your heart. Hey, I'm not here to harm. I'm

1196
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: not here to to provoke the same pain, but I

1197
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 1: need some instruction, you know, and there and listen, there's

1198
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 1: so much out there. I mean, there's there's so many books,

1199
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: there's so much knowledge you know, around race and race relations,

1200
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 1: especially in excuse me, um, that that if you really

1201
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 1: anyone who really wants to know more about these issues

1202
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 1: can get me come up to speed very quickly on

1203
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 1: what is and what isn't. But when it comes to

1204
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 1: cancel culture, especially when it comes to social media, I

1205
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 1: would absolutely advise caution, you know, um, don't go out

1206
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 1: there and speak about something that you are not educated

1207
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 1: on and that you have not checked with, you know,

1208
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 1: especially if you're talking about race. You know, please check

1209
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 1: with some of your friends of color to say, hey,

1210
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about this is what I want to say.

1211
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 1: Let them poke some whole was in it before you

1212
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 1: publicly say it. The it's obvious talking to your day

1213
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 1: and I was doing a little prep for this. But

1214
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 1: you have a very high value value on humans. I

1215
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 1: can tell you you you really um, people really matter

1216
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:26,400
Speaker 1: to you? Absolutely well? Why because man, But but for

1217
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: the grace of God there go why man? We're all

1218
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 1: God's children, period, And the Bible says love your neighbor

1219
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 1: as yourself. I do not get an excuse not to

1220
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 1: love somebody even if I can't stand their actions. And

1221
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 1: also judge not less you be judged. We all come

1222
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: short of the glory of God. We all are in

1223
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 1: need of redemption. I don't say those words to pacify

1224
01:06:56,680 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 1: someone who's done things that need accountability. I'm not ain't that.

1225
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 1: But I also in in terms of this whole cancel culture,

1226
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 1: I don't want to participate in that. I'm not into

1227
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: canceling people because people matter. You know. We talked about

1228
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 1: Rachel again. I don't know where she needs to be

1229
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 1: held to count on all that. But again, knowing what

1230
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:21,680
Speaker 1: it's like when you're dealing with Hollywood and and you

1231
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 1: know the spotlight for the first time in your life.

1232
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 1: This is the most terrifying thing that she's probably ever

1233
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 1: gone through in her life. That doesn't make it right

1234
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 1: what she did. But I'm just saying, like we're just

1235
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 1: gonna all of a sudden just crucify her and then say,

1236
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 1: all right, her body is laying by the side of

1237
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: the road, and all right, we canna keep on moving.

1238
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,160
Speaker 1: I can't participate in that. That's not who I am.

1239
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 1: That's not what I want to be about. I'm like, yo,

1240
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 1: let's talk about it. What you did was wrong. I

1241
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 1: think you know, here's where you went wrong. Let's see

1242
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 1: how we can fix it. You know. Let's like I'm

1243
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 1: more about that because we all need it, man, we

1244
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 1: all need it. We all need it. There are times

1245
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: and situations where we all need redemption. We all have

1246
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 1: made mistakes that we are completely terrified about, that we

1247
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 1: were remorseful of, and we need a shot to get

1248
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: it right. And I just believe in that. I believe

1249
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 1: in that deeply. Now. I believe that we should give

1250
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:15,000
Speaker 1: people a shot to get it right. Um, And my

1251
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:16,840
Speaker 1: hope is that if they get that shot, but they

1252
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:19,760
Speaker 1: would do something positive with another thing. I want to

1253
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 1: say real quickly, Venu, It's just something earlier in your

1254
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 1: question I wanted to address when we're talking about pain

1255
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: and accountability and you know Chris uh and if and

1256
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 1: it kind of the implication was like, well, if he

1257
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 1: doesn't lose his job, is he gonna be really experiencing

1258
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:34,320
Speaker 1: the pain from the whole experience from what from what

1259
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 1: I can glean, this is the most painful experience he's

1260
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 1: probably ever been the professionally, because he seems to be

1261
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:48,560
Speaker 1: someone who completely uh cares and wants that to be experienced,

1262
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 1: and on the show in a moment like this where

1263
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 1: he said something which you know was was has been

1264
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: taken the way that it's taken, and also him realized thinking,

1265
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 1: oh man, I I misspoken. I shouldn't have said those things.

1266
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:07,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's experiencing devastating pain at this moment. So

1267
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 1: I don't think that the barometer for the pain he

1268
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 1: should experience is losing his job. I think that he's

1269
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: already going through the pain. And my hope is that

1270
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 1: again with this pain will produce something positive for himself

1271
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 1: with the show, but the network and most importantly the fans,

1272
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:24,640
Speaker 1: because this show, you all know, this show man, this

1273
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: franchise represents hope to people. It reminds people that, you know,

1274
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: love can work and love will win. And so if

1275
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 1: we as the Bachelor nation don't don't practice that love,

1276
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 1: we then we really really aren't part of the nation. Right.

1277
01:09:38,280 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 1: It's like, now we've got to be a part of

1278
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 1: like loving people back to where we want them to be,

1279
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 1: even if it's painful. Ben, did you get a little

1280
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 1: emotional there, because I certainly did. I was like, I

1281
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 1: have a lump in my throat. You're a beautiful person, divine,

1282
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:56,840
Speaker 1: thank you for just everything. I have no response to

1283
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:01,280
Speaker 1: you because like what you say is just and heavenly

1284
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, and it's not and and and it's

1285
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 1: not just you know because it's good. Right. Uh, it's

1286
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 1: not just because it sounds nice. It's not just because

1287
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:12,680
Speaker 1: you know and and no secret to this is like

1288
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 1: we said many times here, three times I think I've

1289
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,160
Speaker 1: said it's like Chris is a friend and he's he's family,

1290
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 1: he's been I mean, this show has been really good

1291
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,919
Speaker 1: to us and it's been good to many people. Um,

1292
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 1: I would never be talking to you today. Uh if

1293
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't for this show. And and I and I

1294
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 1: need to recognize that. Um and so it's a shocking moment.

1295
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 1: It's it's a weird moment. Uh, as as a friend,

1296
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:38,760
Speaker 1: we need to say, Chris, I'm not okay with this, UM,

1297
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 1: but I'm learning too along the way. Like there's things

1298
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 1: you said in there, but like I didn't pick up

1299
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 1: on right away, I hear the response. We all need

1300
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 1: to get better from it. We all need to learn

1301
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 1: from it. Um. Davon, thank you for coming on here,

1302
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 1: thank you for for taking the time. Uh. It means

1303
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:55,559
Speaker 1: a ton to us. I think it means it will

1304
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 1: mean a ton to the listeners out there. UM. And

1305
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 1: and you said some I just wanna sticks with me

1306
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:05,600
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna take here. Uh what is that.

1307
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 1: There's a lot of work to be done, um, but

1308
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:12,400
Speaker 1: we can't give up hope. We can't and um and

1309
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 1: so I'm just that's that's my that's my big note

1310
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 1: coming out of this is there's a lot of work

1311
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:18,560
Speaker 1: to be done, a lot of conversations we have, but

1312
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 1: we can't give up hope and and thank you for

1313
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 1: for for reminding me of that and sharing that with us. Um,

1314
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:28,719
Speaker 1: it's a big deal for us, my pleasure. Thank you

1315
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 1: for having me and uh, you know we gotta keep

1316
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 1: over live. You know, we got oh, we got nothing.

1317
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, I know we can get through this. Uh.

1318
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 1: It's painful, a lot of work to do, but it's

1319
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:43,599
Speaker 1: totally there to do if the powers that be choose

1320
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:46,839
Speaker 1: to do it. Listening to you today is truly enriching

1321
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,679
Speaker 1: my life. So thank you very much. Oh Ashley, thank

1322
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 1: you so much. Thank you. Well, we can't in this

1323
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:59,639
Speaker 1: podcast classically, we can't in this podcast in any way

1324
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 1: that we don't usually in this podcast, the Von Uh,

1325
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: if you can just follow our lead. Uh, if you

1326
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 1: don't get it right, Uh, it's okay. But hey, this

1327
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 1: has been a podcast with Von Franklin covering the situation

1328
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 1: that happened last week. Uh and the comments made by

1329
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison in the interview with Rachel Lindsay. Uh, we

1330
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:20,080
Speaker 1: hope this podcast is helpful. We hope you listen. We'll

1331
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:23,760
Speaker 1: be back to break down um the episode. Uh, you know,

1332
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:26,639
Speaker 1: because that's kind of what this podcast is. Uh. Without

1333
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:30,680
Speaker 1: neglecting and negating the importance of what's happening now and

1334
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 1: not pushing it aside, but consistently reminding us um that

1335
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 1: this work to be done, this hope to be had.

1336
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 1: In the words of Devon Franklin, what with that, I've

1337
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:46,559
Speaker 1: been Been, I've been Ashley. Follow the Benn and Ashley

1338
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 1: I Almost Famous podcast on iHeart Radio or subscribe wherever

1339
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:51,600
Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts.