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Speaker 1: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past

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Speaker 1: and the press. You believe that someone out of the

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Speaker 1: past can enter and take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 2: We may be true with the past, but the past

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Speaker 2: is not true with us. Welcome to the Next Picture Show,

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Speaker 2: a movie of the Week podcast devoted to a classic film

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Speaker 2: and how it shaped our thoughts on a recent release.

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Speaker 2: I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson. So there are three rules for

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Speaker 2: taking care of the maguai. One don't expose them to

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Speaker 2: bright light. Two, don't get them wet, and three don't

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Speaker 2: feed them after midnight. I have no issues with rules

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Speaker 2: one or two, but rule three makes no sense. Isn't

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Speaker 2: it always after midnight and always before midnight? Two? For

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Speaker 2: that matter, isn't it turning midnight somewhere in the world

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Speaker 2: at the top of every hour?

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Speaker 3: Neil, Neil, Please, no one wants to hear this from you.

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Speaker 3: Don't you have some astrophysics to do? The stars are

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Speaker 3: not going to count themselves.

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Speaker 2: Fine, but you'll have me back for gravity.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: I have a lot to say about that.

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Speaker 3: Movie, No, Neil, stay in your lane. Hey, look, Scott's here.

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Speaker 2: Hey, what's up guys?

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Speaker 3: Hi?

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Speaker 2: Are we ready?

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Speaker 3: To record.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the script's ready, here we go. Segment one introduction

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Speaker 2: music intro Scott Colon, Welcome to the Next Picture Show,

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Speaker 2: a Movie the Week podcast devoted to a classic film

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Speaker 2: and how it shaped our thoughts on a recent release.

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Speaker 2: I'm Scott Tobias here.

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Speaker 3: With Genevieve Kowski.

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Speaker 2: Keith the Pens here on The Next Picture Show. We

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Speaker 2: believe that no film exists in a vacuum, and that

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Speaker 2: all culture is more interesting in context. So every other

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Speaker 2: week we get together to talk over a classic film

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Speaker 2: and consider how it relates to a current movie. This week,

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Speaker 2: we've got two Hollywood sequels that know their sequels and

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Speaker 2: set about deconstructing themselves as they make references to other

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Speaker 2: movies and try to move their own stories forward. Genevieve,

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Speaker 2: what do we got?

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Speaker 3: When the first Deadpool came out two years ago? It

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Speaker 3: offered an a Reverend counterpoint to the rest of the

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Speaker 3: Marvel line. While Marvel and Disney were off carefully managing

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Speaker 3: the Marvel cinematic universe, Deadpool was like the kid lobbying

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Speaker 3: spitballs from the back of the room. It was violent,

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Speaker 3: it was profane, and most of all, it was conscious

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Speaker 3: about how superhero movies were the new Deadpool two offers

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Speaker 3: more of the same, with Ryan Reynolds cracking wives in

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Speaker 3: a sequel that's full of brash style and comic self awareness,

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Speaker 3: the fuselot of references and meta moments, and Deadpool two

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Speaker 3: calls to mind another irreverence sequel, Joe Dante's Gremlins two

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Speaker 3: the new batch. After Dante and producer Steven Spielberg turned

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Speaker 3: the original nineteen eighty four Gremlins into a devilish, hule

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Speaker 3: tied hit, Warner Brothers gave Dante carte blanche to do

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Speaker 3: what he wanted with a follow up, and he took

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Speaker 3: full advantage on the first episode.

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Speaker 2: This week, we'll look at Gremlins two and all the

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Speaker 2: looney Tunes comedy and gizmo torture that happens when you

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Speaker 2: hand the keys of the kingdom over to a mischief

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Speaker 2: maker like Joe Dante. Then later in the week we'll

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Speaker 2: bring in Deadpool two, which doesn't depart nearly as much

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Speaker 2: from the original film as Gremlins two, but continues to

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Speaker 2: connect with audiences as Marvel's residence smart Alec. But hear

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Speaker 2: me out now, next Bisher show listeners, there are millions

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Speaker 2: of rats in Chicago, and everybody hates them. But if

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Speaker 2: one of them could power a podcast?

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Speaker 1: Hm, Remember the last time we told you not to

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Speaker 1: feed them after midnight? We told you to keep them

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Speaker 1: away from the light, and the most important warning of all,

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Speaker 1: we told you to never ever get them wet. You

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Speaker 1: didn't listen.

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Speaker 5: Their mutine?

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Speaker 1: Wow, where is the building on fire? No?

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Speaker 5: No, that's a false alarm. Are you trying to panic

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Speaker 5: to your city?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely not, so the massors are real.

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Speaker 5: I didn't say that.

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Speaker 1: Remlins too, the new batch? Now? Was that civil? No,

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Speaker 1: clearly not fun, but in no sense civilogs.

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Speaker 2: When Joe Dante was originally asked to make a sequel

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Speaker 2: to Gremlins, he recalls turning down the offer because the

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Speaker 2: original film was so difficult for him to make. When

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Speaker 2: the studio tried and failed to produce a seaquel on

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Speaker 2: their own, they came back to Dante with an offer.

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Speaker 2: Dante recalls quote, they said to me, if you give

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Speaker 2: us a couple of cans of films with Gremlins in

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Speaker 2: them next summer, you can do whatever you want. And

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Speaker 2: they gave me three times the money we had to

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Speaker 2: make the first one. So I made Grimlins two, which

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Speaker 2: was essentially about how there didn't need to be a

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Speaker 2: sequel to Grimlins end quote. The madness of Gremlin's two,

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Speaker 2: The new Batch is the stuff of Colt Legend. Key

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Speaker 2: and Peel did a great sketch about the pitch meeting

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Speaker 2: for the film, which involved a sprightly Hollywood sequel doctor

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Speaker 2: named Star Magic Jackson Junior going around the table and

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Speaker 2: accepting every crazy idea the writers had for it. A

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Speaker 2: brainy gremlin that sings new York, New York, a spider gremlin,

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Speaker 2: a googly eyed Grimlin, an electricity gremlin, Hulk Hogan breaking

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Speaker 2: the fourth wall all in the picture. And that's just

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Speaker 2: a start. But Grimlin's Two shouldn't be understood as merely

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Speaker 2: a throwaway lark or a prank on the studio that

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Speaker 2: financed it. Dante believes that it's the film he'll be

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Speaker 2: remembered by, an unrestrained and generously bankrolled expression of his sensibility.

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Speaker 2: As a graduate of the Roger Corman school of filmmaking,

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Speaker 2: Dante essentially does Corman on a larger scale. Corman would

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Speaker 2: give his directors a free hand so long as they

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Speaker 2: included certain requisite elements for his movies to turn a profit. Here,

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Speaker 2: Dante gave the studio all the Gremlins it required and

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Speaker 2: then some, and then allowed his imagination to run wild.

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Speaker 2: One key to understanding Gremlins two is knowing that Dante

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Speaker 2: hated Gizmo, the adorable little magway that sets both films

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Speaker 2: in motion. Gizmo is a very popular merchandising item after

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Speaker 2: Gremlins came out, but it was only on Steven Spielberg's

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Speaker 2: insistence that he'd stay in the movie. Originally, Gizmo was

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Speaker 2: going to turn into the mohawked ring leader of the Gremlins.

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Speaker 2: In Gremlins two, Gizmo was tortured virtually NonStop. He shoved

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Speaker 2: into a vent, He's jammed faced first into the printing

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Speaker 2: window of a copy machine. He's the damsel in distress

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Speaker 2: tied to model railroad tracks. It's only when Gizmo does

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Speaker 2: the gremlin like thing of turning into Rambo that he

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Speaker 2: finally gets back in the film's good graces. Dante identifies

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Speaker 2: with the Gremlins here from the opening title bit, which

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Speaker 2: has nothing at all to do with the movie other

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Speaker 2: than Dante having license to screw around with Looney Tunes characters.

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Speaker 2: Because Warner Brothers was a distributor. Watching Gremlins two is

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Speaker 2: like touring Dante's film Addled Brain. There are pop references

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Speaker 2: to contemporary hits like Aliens in Rambo, but the film's

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Speaker 2: sensibility is tex Avery meets Frank Tashlan meets Jacques Tati

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Speaker 2: and includes nods to the Birds, King Kong, Marathon Man,

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Speaker 2: and The Wizard of Oz, as well as fifty science

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Speaker 2: fiction and all night horror movie marathons. With one backfiring

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Speaker 2: office building as nearly its sole location, the film becomes

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Speaker 2: an antique playground for Dante to crack jokes and make

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Speaker 2: references to Gremlins itself, to other movies, to the fourth

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Speaker 2: Wall and the commercial intent of a Hollywood production like

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Speaker 2: Gremlin's two. Zach Gilligan and Phoebe Kate's are back as

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Speaker 2: Billy and Kate, the small town lovebirds seeking to make

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Speaker 2: it in the big city, and Dante favorite Dick Miller

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Speaker 2: turns up too as Murray Futterman, who helps billiing Kate

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Speaker 2: contain the Gremlins. There's Hulk Hogan and Leonard Maltons themselves.

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Speaker 2: Christopher Lee is a mad scientist named doctor ka Catheter,

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Speaker 2: and Paul Bartel is a theater manager. Plus there's a

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Speaker 2: fantastic turn by John Glover as Daniel Clamp, a real

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Speaker 2: estate and cable TV guru who's a cross between Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump and Ted Turner, the more daft and charming than

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Speaker 2: either of them. But mostly there's jokes, so many jokes.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about how many of them land after the break?

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Speaker 4: Wait? What if one of them eats something at eleven o'clock,

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Speaker 4: but then he gets something stuck in his teeth, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: like a caraway seed, orme, and then.

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Speaker 5: After twelve o'clock it comes out. Now, he didn't eat

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Speaker 5: that after midnight? I did.

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Speaker 4: Rules.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe this.

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Speaker 2: Oh a minute, what about this?

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Speaker 4: What if they're eating in an airplane and they cross

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Speaker 4: the time zone?

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's always midnight somewhere.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: All right, So Gremlins two, let me let's start establish

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Speaker 2: a baseline here. What first of all, is your what

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Speaker 2: is your experience with the Gremlins movies? And then how

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Speaker 2: did Gremlins hold up for you after that? Those are

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Speaker 2: the two questions I have for you.

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Speaker 4: I think I saw the original Gremlins four times in

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Speaker 4: the theater, and I think I had Yeah, I know,

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Speaker 4: I had the soundtrack album and listen to it quite

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Speaker 4: a bit. And I only saw Gremlins two once in

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Speaker 4: the theater, but I enjoyed it immensely, and I enjoyed

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Speaker 4: it immensely this time, as I'm sure everyone else did

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Speaker 4: as well.

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Speaker 5: Keep setting yourself up for disappointment there. I saw the

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Speaker 5: first Kremlins in the theater as a timid early teenager

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Speaker 5: who like literally had to leave during the first sequence

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Speaker 5: where the Gremlin is loose in the in the lab

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Speaker 5: with the needles. I was so wigged out by that,

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Speaker 5: like I had to go take a breather. I used

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Speaker 5: to not be able to deal with horror movies at all,

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Speaker 5: and it was honestly working for the av Club and

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Speaker 5: kind of having to see horror movies on a regular

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Speaker 5: basis that slowly brought me out of that.

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Speaker 2: But like so jaded, I am.

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Speaker 5: Actually fairly jaded, and I blame that on the evy clib.

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Speaker 4: Toop Worth the fourth Human Centipede.

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Speaker 5: I've managed to get away without it seeing any of

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Speaker 5: those movies if you tell me that one of them

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Speaker 5: is a hilarious meta comedy full of human centipedes running

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Speaker 5: around being goofy. First of all, I won't believe it.

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Speaker 4: They actually do get meta the first two, and they

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Speaker 4: do get metabout why why.

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Speaker 5: Didn't we pay it to you? And Human Centipede too.

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Speaker 3: Deadpool two does reference Human Centipede movies.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god. My point is I had the respect

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Speaker 5: for it that like a good gun owner has for

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Speaker 5: a gun. It's like, wow, that's that's really dangerous. But

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Speaker 5: I'm really kind of impressed with it too, so it

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Speaker 5: really stuck with me. It stuck with me, the the

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Speaker 5: weird tonal shifts and like the emotion that goes into it.

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Speaker 5: Even though it's like at times it's a really goofy comedy,

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Speaker 5: at times it's a pretty intense horror movie, at least

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Speaker 5: for the young audience that wasn't prepared for it. And

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Speaker 5: of course, at the time I followed the news about

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Speaker 5: how I mean, it basically gave us the rating system

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Speaker 5: more or less as we have it today, minus the

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Speaker 5: the specific breakouts for you know, teasing nudity, direct nudity,

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Speaker 5: like extreme super violence, like whatever. That wasn't a part

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Speaker 5: of it. But the idea that people could go into

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Speaker 5: a theater not knowing what they were getting I was

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Speaker 5: apparently a big deal. Back then, and you know, Gremlins

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Speaker 5: messed with people's minds so much that they had to

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Speaker 5: change the system.

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Speaker 4: The PG rating covered a lot of ground that perhaps

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Speaker 4: did not account for some things that went on. Gremlins

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Speaker 4: and Indiana Jones Typlo Doom.

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Speaker 5: Gremlins two I saw in college and I couldn't understand

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Speaker 5: why anybody was doing this to me. And I'm right

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Speaker 5: back there today, but we'll get into that.

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Speaker 2: I thought for sure you'd see it again and love it.

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Speaker 3: What about just because it's so obviously great?

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Speaker 2: But God, but what about you?

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Speaker 3: Genevieve Well, I saw the first Gremlins when I was

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Speaker 3: way too young to see it on VHS, in one

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Speaker 3: of those scenarios with a bunch of like family friend kids,

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Speaker 3: all shoved into the basement and put in front of

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Speaker 3: a movie. And I was the youngest of the group,

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Speaker 3: you know, And I think I was probably like four

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Speaker 3: or five watching or being put in a position to

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Speaker 3: watch Gremlins for the first time. I don't think I

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Speaker 3: stuck around for it. I have very vague memories of

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Speaker 3: just being like very upset and not liking Gremlins, and

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Speaker 3: I never really felt a need to return to it

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Speaker 3: because of that early scarring experience. But I actually did

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Speaker 3: revisit the original Gremlins before watching Gremlins Too, which I

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Speaker 3: had never seen before, because of that early experience with

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Speaker 3: the first Gremlins, I really did. It really doesn't matter,

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Speaker 3: It doesn't it doesn't, but you know, I wanted, I

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Speaker 3: want to do my homework. My boyfriend had never seen it.

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Speaker 3: It was like, you knows, we'll watch Gremlins, and like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: Gremlins is good. I didn't really find it scary at

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Speaker 3: this point in my life, but I absolutely understand why

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Speaker 3: it would have terrified me as a child. So going

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Speaker 3: into Gremlins Too, I was kind of prepared for all

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Speaker 3: the because of like the background discussion we had of

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Speaker 3: making this choice, and like I knew that Tasha is

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Speaker 3: not a fan of the film, and Scott and Keith

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Speaker 3: are very strong fans of the film, and I was

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Speaker 3: just like very curious to see where I would fall

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Speaker 3: and sitish. I dragged this out a little a little more.

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Speaker 5: I mean, we're all we're all stux Yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, I mean I won't go so far as to

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Speaker 3: say like it's great. I fully like respect, like how

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Speaker 3: anarcic and throwing everything at the wall. It is and

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Speaker 3: like a lot of it. I really did enjoy and

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Speaker 3: I laughed a lot at it. So I think I'm

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Speaker 3: like firmly in the middle ground, maybe leaning toward Scott

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Speaker 3: and Keith's opinions. I'm sorry, Tasha, I feel like I've

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Speaker 3: I've disappointed you. I'm not hating Gremlins to move, but

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Speaker 3: I just have so much love in my heart. I

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Speaker 3: think it was a spider gremlin that really made me

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Speaker 3: love it.

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Speaker 5: Okay, Okay, wait what nothing?

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Speaker 3: You're the most see that that was sarcasm. Okay, that

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Speaker 3: was a joke of the sort that you might see

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Speaker 3: in Gremlins too.

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Speaker 5: A joke of the story I might see in Gremlins

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Speaker 5: two would be Christopher Lee walking around with a giant pod.

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Speaker 5: And I'm assuming that you came out of that jolt

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Speaker 5: pod and you're a pod person, because you are trying

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Speaker 5: to tell me, hey, that this is a good movie,

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Speaker 5: and I think that spiders are good.

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Speaker 3: I will say it's I found it an enjoyable movie.

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Speaker 3: Like I think, good is like a much more subjective thing,

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Speaker 3: depending on like what you expect out of this movie,

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Speaker 3: what what you want out of it, and I guess

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Speaker 3: how you feel about Dante's approach to filmmaking in general.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know. I'm not mad at Gremlins too.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, but now I'm afraid I'm disappointed Scott by

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Speaker 3: not loving enough. Yeah, I mean, I think it's.

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Speaker 5: Scott I mean to be to be fair. In the

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Speaker 5: in the conversations we were having about this, Scott repeatedly

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Speaker 5: and vehemently said, this is Dante's best movie.

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Speaker 2: I do. I think it's his best film. I think

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Speaker 2: it's one of the best films of that decade. I

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Speaker 2: think it's truly an absolute comic masterpiece.

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Speaker 5: I think you're on all the drugs, and I would

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Speaker 5: like to know what drugs just so.

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Speaker 2: I think it's so conceptually smart. Dante has found, as

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Speaker 2: they said in the intro, this playground for him to

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Speaker 2: run wild with things that obsess him and make him

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Speaker 2: laugh and then he and the film is just so

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Speaker 2: packed just with jokes. I mean, there's jokes everywhere, but

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Speaker 2: also with just such specific quirky Dante things. You know,

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Speaker 2: things like this Canadian restaurant where mounties, uh serve, they

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Speaker 2: clean the fish right to your table, and stuff like,

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Speaker 2: you know, all the things that are said by the

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Speaker 2: automated building. By the automated building, you're so funny, just

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Speaker 2: like mister welcome to the men's room. Hey hel, I

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Speaker 2: sure hope you wash those hands. All that stuff is

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Speaker 2: so smart. And then it's runs amuck with Grumlin's causing

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Speaker 2: all sorts of trouble. So it's got that going forward,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's like, as I said in the intro,

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Speaker 2: it's a mix of tex Avery. Of course, you've got

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Speaker 2: all the Lenitian's references in the film. But I think

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Speaker 2: I should draw the other comparison, which is that I made,

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Speaker 2: or one of the other comparisons I made in the intro,

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Speaker 2: which is to Jacques Tati JAQUEATI did a film called

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Speaker 2: mon Uncla that is about his character's relationship to this

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Speaker 2: fully automated house and all the things that just completely

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Speaker 2: go wrong as he tries to sort of navigate in

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Speaker 2: this environment. And so for him to kind of include

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Speaker 2: that element in here as well, on top of the

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Speaker 2: gremlins and have them sort of interact in a thematically

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Speaker 2: meaningful way and I think a comedically productive way. I

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Speaker 2: don't know. I just think this film is a delight.

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Speaker 4: I we should do a quick tip of the hat

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Speaker 4: to Charlie Hass who's the writer, was Dante's partner on

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Speaker 4: this and Mattinee, which is okay, maybe my vote for

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Speaker 4: the best Joe Dante movie. Which is sort of like

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Speaker 4: all his obsessions packed into a more more more conventional narrative.

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Speaker 4: Not conventional narrative, maybe more heartfelt.

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Speaker 2: And it's the Cuban missile crisis. You enjoy anything that

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Speaker 2: involves the Maybe maybe that it's the political aspects of

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Speaker 2: the film.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is that unconventional of a narrative. Or is

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Speaker 3: it a pretty conventional narrative just with a lot of

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Speaker 3: surprising stuff thrown up?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well either conventional in the sense said it's, you know,

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Speaker 4: a super skyscraper overrun by tiny creatures. I guess, I

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Speaker 4: guess that's conventional, but.

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Speaker 5: Uh, it's kind of a towering infernojerative. It's just gremlins

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Speaker 5: instead of fire true, fair enough.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they even have a hose right to take care

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Speaker 2: of the gremlins. And then I like the plan. You

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Speaker 2: got the fire hose and then you have the electricity

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Speaker 2: grimlin in it allcity.

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Speaker 3: If I had to guess, I would I would guess

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Speaker 3: a large part of Tasha's objection. So this film comes

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Speaker 3: down to the electricity grin.

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Speaker 5: I mean, like just to be a little Neil de

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Speaker 5: Grass tights in for a second electricity. Where did he

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Speaker 5: go by the way we taste him out? Like we

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Speaker 5: we have four chairs here in Sweet Emotion Studios.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's only a certain level of pedantry. Well,

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Speaker 2: we will, uh, we will be able to stand here

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Speaker 2: at Sweet Emotion Studios. Like Keith telling me as I

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Speaker 2: was doing my introduction that Grimlins wasn't a yule Tide

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Speaker 2: hit in the sense that it came out during the

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Speaker 2: summer Christmas.

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Speaker 5: It's a Christmas story exactly exactly.

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Speaker 2: But I can see where I could see where the

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Speaker 2: wording would make some people itch.

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Speaker 5: So back to my pedantry, DNA does not cannot be

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Speaker 5: drawn from electricity and drinking electricity. DNA will not turn

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Speaker 5: you into an electricity monster.

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Speaker 4: I don't like this movie anymore.

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Speaker 5: That's that's sort of how I figured everybody the ticket.

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Speaker 5: I figured that you guys have had maybe overlooked that

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Speaker 5: facet of it. Okay, So like leaving aside every dumb

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Speaker 5: plot point like that, and there's so many of them.

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Speaker 5: There's so many of them to me, this movie is

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Speaker 5: it's shapeless and it's baggy, it draws out, it's its

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Speaker 5: beats too long, it's repetitive, like the the whole torturing

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Speaker 5: Gizmo thing. Just I don't enjoy it, but joke. The

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Speaker 5: individual segments of it are just like, Okay, now it's

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Speaker 5: a Now it's this thing. Now it's that thing. Now

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Speaker 5: it's the other thing. Just it over and over and over.

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Speaker 5: The whole business with the gremlins drinking stuff. It's like,

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Speaker 5: and now yet another gremlin is gonna drink yet another

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Speaker 5: bottle of DNA and turn into yet another weirdo thing.

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Speaker 5: It just it seems so pointlessly repetitive to me and

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Speaker 5: like a little crazy.

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Speaker 3: It's like Scott is Gizmo and you're torturing with your words.

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Speaker 5: No, no, he's torturing me. I'm tied to the train

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Speaker 5: tracks here and he's going great talking.

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Speaker 4: You can't be talking to me about a movie that

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Speaker 4: breaks down halfway through the Shadow puppet show. That is

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Speaker 4: an interrupted bay Hult Cogan hulking out in the middle

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Speaker 4: of the theater.

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Speaker 5: I enjoyed that sequence by Paul Bartel. What I enjoy

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Speaker 5: even more is the fact that for the VHS, they

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Speaker 5: know completely different for the VHS tape reels break.

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Speaker 4: Did you did you guys watch that too?

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Speaker 3: I didn't see that. I read about it.

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Speaker 4: It's on the Blu ray and it's like the tracking,

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Speaker 4: like a tracking program. And I swear the first time

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Speaker 4: I watch this movie on VHS, I felt the fell

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Speaker 4: for it. I've forgotten what was on the theater and.

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Speaker 2: I got to enjoy that that effect.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I watched it on streaming and I feel like

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Speaker 3: we need a streaming version of it where you get

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Speaker 3: like a buffery.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it did occur to me to wonder if he'd

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Speaker 5: ever done any more updates, because you know, that's that

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Speaker 5: is dedication.

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Speaker 4: I think they were done giving money to Joe don

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Speaker 4: for this movie.

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Speaker 2: That would be really fun, if they please, please Joe

399
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Speaker 2: someone here there's another grand shoot this again.

400
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Speaker 5: But so many other characters are cardboardy and boring.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I just but you don't think the film

402
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Speaker 3: is like kind of poking fun at that fact?

403
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Speaker 5: Sure?

404
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Speaker 2: I mean you really just have The only character that really,

405
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Speaker 2: I mean resonates is John Glover, which is fine, right,

406
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Speaker 2: I mean, he's terrific.

407
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Speaker 5: It is really weird that he's the only character that resonates.

408
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Speaker 2: But it's fine. I mean, and you like the other ones,

409
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Speaker 2: the other ones that the other people are likable, and

410
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Speaker 2: they try trying for a Billy and Kate, and you

411
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Speaker 2: don't like Murray, you don't like you don't like billion

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Speaker 2: k okay, So what is Dick Millard.

413
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Speaker 5: Billion King don't come across to me as liking each other,

414
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Speaker 5: Like are they supposed to be a couple that we

415
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Speaker 5: care about and root for.

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Speaker 3: The big city trying to make it they want to

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Speaker 3: get I think.

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Speaker 5: About those performances like, I don't see any like affection

419
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Speaker 5: in them at all.

420
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Speaker 4: There the affectionate when there's weird grim around a team.

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Speaker 2: They do a good job of trying to.

422
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Speaker 5: All the time. You've seen our political system lately, and

423
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Speaker 5: yet I.

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Speaker 4: Still love topical typical.

425
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 2: So the Archery Channel did nothing for you. I'll be

426
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Speaker 2: walking out of the Archery Channel and just snapping an

427
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Speaker 2: arrow and a half an anger that didn't do it.

428
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Speaker 2: The microwave with the March Show that didn't that didn't

429
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Speaker 2: win a winner.

430
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Speaker 5: Microwave of March Show is yet another thing that for

431
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Speaker 5: me just it's a it's an interesting joke that goes

432
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,879
Speaker 5: on too long to me, the whole this whole movie

433
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Speaker 5: just feels like throwing jokes at a wall to see

434
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Speaker 5: what hits. And it's my problem with that is I've

435
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Speaker 5: seen it done better. Like so much of this humor

436
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:48,199
Speaker 5: is like the very very specific kind of combination of

437
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,199
Speaker 5: weirdo and arca humor that that Zazz did. Like this

438
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 5: movie feels to me like airplane, like the chocolate moose

439
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,159
Speaker 5: being pushed out? Would you make? Can I cut you?

440
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,199
Speaker 5: An antler? Like that is a pure airplane gas But

441
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 5: I don't know.

442
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,919
Speaker 2: Whether it's not an airplane necessarily an airplane gag to

443
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:08,159
Speaker 2: have an entire Canadian themed restaurant that leads to that gag.

444
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,920
Speaker 2: And what about pulling the fire alarm and the fire

445
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 2: the untamed element to the age old drum of self preservation.

446
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 2: So it's it's just I don't the thing is just

447
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 2: loaded with jokes, And I think maybe that's the thing.

448
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: You just you find that you either find the jokes

449
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 2: funny or you don't.

450
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 5: By here's the thing. I do find a lot of

451
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 5: these jokes funny. That doesn't make it like a good

452
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 5: narrative to me, or an interesting narrative or convincing narrative.

453
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,640
Speaker 5: It doesn't make the characters anything other than plastic. And

454
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 5: so much of this movie, like all the conversations we

455
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 5: had about Ready Player one, just sort of regurgitating references

456
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,439
Speaker 5: and tropes without commenting on them. There's so much that

457
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 5: happens in this movie that's just like a gremlin is melting,

458
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,919
Speaker 5: Let's do the Wizard of Oz thing, a magua is angry,

459
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 5: Let's do a Rambo thing. So like they feel so

460
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 5: like there's no there's no context, there's no way that

461
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 5: they're making these references more interest. What is witty all

462
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,479
Speaker 5: about the Wizard of Oz joke that is different from

463
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 5: the way references are just presented specific.

464
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 4: Hanging I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw out and

465
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 4: answer that question. There's a gremlin involved, are funny, glins

466
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,360
Speaker 4: are inherently funny, and seeing gremlins peoples.

467
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, well I want to like back away from

468
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 3: the contentiousness. Sure, and I'm going to like attempt to

469
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 3: find some middle ground and I am preparing just to

470
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 3: be shot down all over again. But speaking of the Gremlins,

471
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 3: Tasha as someone who likes practical effects and puppetry, like,

472
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 3: how do you feel about like the evolution of the

473
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 3: Gremlins as creatures in this film.

474
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 4: It occurred to me that between this and Dark Crystal,

475
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 4: we do a lot of puppet movies.

476
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 5: On the you know, the movement of of the Gremlins specifically,

477
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 5: like I find a little stiff and predictable, especially when

478
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 5: they're just hung up everywhere. The creation of them, like

479
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 5: the the way they're pain did, like the way they're

480
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 5: all different, the colors of them, the textures of them

481
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 5: is amazing. And like watching Gizmo in particular, like for

482
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 5: the time, he is a really impressive special effect, Like

483
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 5: he is a really convincing little puppet creature that I

484
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 5: feel for like even in kind of process shots that

485
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 5: like processed shots over the time were not necessarily great,

486
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 5: but when he's doing his little dancing thing out of nowhere,

487
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 5: like I was pretty convinced.

488
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 3: By Yeah, seeing Gizmo's legs and this reminded me of

489
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 3: seeing Kermit's legs and Muppet Movie for the first time,

490
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 3: You're like, what are the how is that happening? But yeah,

491
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 3: with all apologies to Dante, I really like GisMo in

492
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 3: both in both movies. I mean, I'm sorry, I'm supposed

493
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 3: to like him, right.

494
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 5: I think the fact that he hates Gizmo may kind

495
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 5: of speak to one of the things I don't like

496
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 5: about this movie. Is one of the things that I

497
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 5: think is so interesting about the first Gremlins movie is

498
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 5: there's like that wacky, antartic, extensive humor, but there's also

499
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 5: a sincerity to it. When Phoebe Kate's tells that horrible

500
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 5: story about her dad, which is I'm mercilessly lampooned here.

501
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 5: It is, it's a ridiculous, over the top moment, but

502
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 5: she puts feeling into it, and the film pauses and

503
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 5: gives that moment emotional space, like it believes in that moment,

504
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 5: even though it is, if you think about it, a

505
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 5: ridiculous moment, and here apparently Dante is thinking about it

506
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 5: and proclaiming it to be a ridiculous moment. This movie

507
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 5: makes fun of the Gremlins rules in a way that

508
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 5: it says to me that all of the things that

509
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 5: were interesting or that people connected to or that were

510
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,479
Speaker 5: unique in the first movie, Dante seems to think are

511
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 5: hot garbage, And to me, that's just it. It's a

512
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 5: level of sneering insincerity that I'm really surprised to see

513
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 5: you embrace.

514
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 2: Okay, well, let me address a couple of points. I'll

515
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: address that point and a bit. The first thing I

516
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 2: wanted to say, I think one observation I guess it

517
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: would make is I think you're imposing a expectation of

518
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 2: how Gremlin's two is supposed to work that really doesn't

519
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: apply to talk about it. It's narrative weaknesses, for example,

520
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 2: or it's cardboard characters. I don't really think those are

521
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 2: concerns that Dante really has in making this movie. I

522
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 2: think his idea is just to have a conceit that

523
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 2: is going to allow him to wreak havoc, and so

524
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: all of these other elements are not as important as

525
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 2: they were in the first Gremlins movie as far as

526
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 2: like just tearing away at the canvas, which is what

527
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 2: I guess what he's doing here. I mean, I think

528
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 2: this is just kind of a working out of those feelings.

529
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 2: I mean, he doesn't Dante is, I think came to

530
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 2: Gremlins a little bit uncomfortable with his role as being

531
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 2: a commercial filmmaker, and in fact resisted making Gremlins two

532
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 2: for that reason. I think he found a lot to

533
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 2: dislike about making a movie in a studio, and I

534
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: think there are certain compulsory elements in Gremlins that perhaps

535
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 2: he didn't cotton to all of that much. Maybe he

536
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 2: actually did want He almost certainly wanted Gizmo to become

537
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: the Mohawk Gremlin be done with it. So things like that,

538
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: I'm sure he was looking to kind of, you know,

539
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: with given the freedom that he had here, get a

540
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: chance to engage in a little bit of playful critique,

541
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 2: self critique, which I think the movie does and does well,

542
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 2: I mean so, and then he can also critique this

543
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 2: Neil deGrasse tyson esque pedantry by by having characters talk

544
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: about the whole feed them after the night rule. I

545
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: think that's all perfectly clever. Or you know, at the

546
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 2: end of the film talking about you know, dolls with

547
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,479
Speaker 2: suction cups staring off out of car windows, I mean,

548
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 2: you know, his that expresses a certain amount of discomfort

549
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 2: with contributing to, you know, films as commercial products and

550
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: merchandising that sort of thing. And so I think all

551
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: this is playful and not necessarily hostile to the original

552
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 2: film maybe, or maybe it is, I don't know. I

553
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: think it. I think both films work in very different ways,

554
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 2: and they work on their own terms. But I think

555
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 2: it's a mistake if you try to apply the terms

556
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 2: on which Gremlins was operating to how Gremlin's Two is operating,

557
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 2: which I because I think Gremlin's Two is just a

558
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 2: completely different animal.

559
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 4: It's a new batch.

560
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm hosting this show, I should be asking

561
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 2: you questions.

562
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 5: I'm either if you have thoughts on that.

563
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 3: On that statement, I think it's interesting that, like this

564
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 3: defense is coming from Scott anti extratextual information to bias,

565
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 3: because like, I think the element of Dante not wanting

566
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 3: to do a sequel and this being his response to

567
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 3: being compelled to do one anyway, like makes it work

568
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 3: in a way that if this were a sincere venture

569
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 3: on his part, and like this is like the direction

570
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 3: that he really wanted to take the Gremlins franchise in,

571
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 3: it would not have worked. So I think, just in

572
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 3: terms of sort of the sincerity question, this is one

573
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 3: where authorial intent, I guess is crucial to how you

574
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: feel about that. And personally, like I respect Dante's impulse

575
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 3: in this situation, like Gremlins is not a movie that

576
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 3: needed a sequel, and I think the fact that this

577
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 3: is how he chose to address the demand for a

578
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 3: sequel is admirable and makes the movie admirable. By extension,

579
00:27:58,720 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 3: I think.

580
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 4: In some movies the extra text becomes the text, and

581
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 4: this is kind of like what if I made my

582
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,239
Speaker 4: own Mad magazine parody of a Gremlins movie? And on

583
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 4: that I think it's just it's just so much fun

584
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 4: all the way through, all the way through.

585
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 5: Okay, Okay, do you think it's a funny movie, But

586
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 5: do you think it's a good movie?

587
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 4: Yeah? Sure, those things yeah, no, I mean, I'm not

588
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 4: sure they're necesarily interchangeable in that sense, But I think

589
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 4: I think you have a funny movie that's not necessarily

590
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 4: that great see part two of this episode. But in

591
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 4: this case, I think, you know, it sees through this

592
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 4: idea all the way from beginning to end and realizes

593
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 4: it really thoroughly.

594
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 5: I think one thing that that just bothers me about

595
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 5: Gremlins two is the parts that I like. I see

596
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 5: a huge gap between the jokes, the performances that are fun,

597
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 5: the fourth wall breaking that's so like daring and unexpected,

598
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 5: and so much of the other stuff you know, for me,

599
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 5: there's just there's a huge gap there that is sort

600
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 5: of one of the hallmarks of kind of a bad

601
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 5: movie is that it so much of it doesn't it

602
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 5: hit the heights of its best stuff.

603
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 2: So it's more uneven than bad then, right.

604
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 5: I mean, uneven is away.

605
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 3: From trying to like, Yeah, I guess it's like you're

606
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 3: trying to juno me into liking this. It's not gonna

607
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 3: I guess, Like how bad do the bad elements have

608
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 3: to be for the whole movie to be bad? You know,

609
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 3: like like for me, like, uh, just bad, but like

610
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 3: for me, like I agree that there's like a lot

611
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 3: of jokes that are low hanging fruit that don't really land,

612
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 3: that aren't really jokes that are just like see what

613
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: I did, their references they just kind of like melt

614
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 3: into the fabric of the film for me, like they

615
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 3: don't necessarily strike me as bum notes. So I come

616
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: away with it remembering the high notes of that it

617
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 3: hits of like the jokes that I do like, and

618
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 3: not particularly dwelling or even remembering those bum notes. I guess.

619
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think that they're you know, having

620
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: the wisdom of oz reference or having Billy strapped to

621
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: a dentist's chair and him saying, is it's safe. I

622
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 2: mean that is definitely going for the obvious reference. But

623
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 2: then you also have this John Glover character who has

624
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 2: prepared a special tape just for the apocalypse. It's you know,

625
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: which ends with that we hope you have enjoyed life.

626
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: I mean, just like, this is such a weird thing

627
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: to include, and it's soosyncratic and just that you know,

628
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 2: that amazing fourth wall break that's so well conceptualized. But

629
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: then within it there's so many surprises. It's so much

630
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 2: fun of having like the shadow puppets and one of

631
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 2: them being Abraham Lincoln and in the Hulkster doing his thing.

632
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 2: I just think it's same unexpected and spontaneous and inspired.

633
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: I mean I think that you know, you're just gonna

634
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 2: have to let a couple of things go, which is,

635
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 2: by the way, the case of every single other spoof

636
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: ever made. I mean, the Airplane has its duds too,

637
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 2: and I think it's a great movie.

638
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,959
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the same. The let's make some references impulse. Uh,

639
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 4: you know, you get some low hanging fruits, as we said,

640
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 4: but also you get a full on Buzby Berkeley styled

641
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 4: musical number at the end.

642
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 3: Wha ha hate.

643
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 5: I'm shaking my head because it's just it's such a

644
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 5: WTF moment. I don't even know where to put it.

645
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 4: That whole sequence was so many gremlins in the lobby

646
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 4: at ones, doing so many things. You feel like you're

647
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 4: kind of losing your mind looking at it. It's like

648
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 4: it's like you're Joe Dante's channeling hieronomous Bosh or something.

649
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 5: I mean, it does. It does feel a little bit

650
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 5: like like a psychopathic version of Jim Henson. Sure, you know,

651
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 5: because he also used to fill his sets with that

652
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 5: kind of density, and you know, with all of these

653
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 5: characters going crazy, and it like it feels like that,

654
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 5: except you know, more dangerous.

655
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 2: But I mean, the fact that you referred to the

656
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: musical number with you know, Gershwin and the whole thing

657
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 2: as sort of a WTF moment, I think again kind

658
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: of gets to my point about bringing certain narrative expectations

659
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: to this film that that it has no intent on delivering, right.

660
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: I mean, of course, it's what I mean, this whole

661
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 2: movie is a WTF moment. It's anarchy, it's fun, it's like,

662
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 2: you know, it's okay to It's created this environment in

663
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: which spontaneous, crazy, quirky things can happen, and that's all

664
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 2: you need. If you don't, you don't have to impose

665
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: this other stuff on it.

666
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that you're you're taking some of these

667
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 5: objections as though I walked into Gremlins two with a

668
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 5: like a clipboard and a checklist saying, if this movie

669
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 5: does not hit all of these notes, I will shut

670
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 5: I shall be unsatisfied. And it's not like that. I'm

671
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 5: trying to figure out how to put into words some

672
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 5: of my emotional reactions to this movie, which were kind

673
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 5: of boredom for a lot of it. But you know,

674
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 5: it's not a matter of expectations. I as strongly as

675
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 5: you feel that extra textuals shouldn't matter, I feel like

676
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 5: you should not ever walk into a movie with expectations

677
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 5: that you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. I think

678
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 5: that's why I have such a lifelong fascination with book

679
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 5: to film adaptations, because it's so hard to go into

680
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 5: those with no expectations if you've read the book. So

681
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,239
Speaker 5: I didn't walk into this saying this has to be

682
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 5: like Gremlins. You should never do that with a sequel.

683
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,479
Speaker 5: Too many people do that with a sequel, including the

684
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:54,239
Speaker 5: studio which apparently anything with Gremlins and I was going

685
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 5: to make original Gremlins money. Now I'm just trying to

686
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,719
Speaker 5: express how I felt about this movie watch this movie,

687
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 5: not how I felt about what this movie was supposed

688
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 5: to be doing, which is only a list of things

689
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 5: in my head.

690
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 3: Tasha, I would just like to say, for the record,

691
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 3: I'm not mad at you for not liking Gremlins too.

692
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 3: I think you are entitled to your opion.

693
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 5: I mean, if I'm not bad at Scott or liking

694
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 5: I'm just I literally am baffled, Like, yeah, seriously, because.

695
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 3: After all of our discussion, I've been talking about what

696
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 3: we respond to in it, Like, did do you understand

697
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 3: our response to the film?

698
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 5: Not entirely like I would understand a total stranger saying

699
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 5: all of these things to me. But I'm just I'm

700
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 5: so used to Scott being a proponent of quiet, thoughtful,

701
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 5: masterclass cinema of deeply felt emotional moments and incredibly like

702
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 5: impeccably crafted visuals of people who think very sincerely about

703
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 5: where to put the camera and how to feel an emotion,

704
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 5: and this for me is just it's such a like

705
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 5: a wackety you throw crap at the wall and see

706
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 5: what sticks movie. It's hard for me to understand that. Like,

707
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 5: I don't feel that way about Keith because Keith Keith,

708
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 5: I'm low brow. Keith's tastes have always been so broad,

709
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 5: Like you're capable of finding things to appreciate in movies

710
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 5: on so many different spectrums. Like I've always found that

711
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 5: really admirable. I don't know, like Scott, I'm mister fun.

712
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 5: Scott loves his torture, porn, like this comedy.

713
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: I like all sorts of different things, including and I

714
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: think there's a there's craft here, and there's intent and

715
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: artistry and you know this isn't just you know there

716
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: is because it's a spoof. There's there's a lot of

717
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 2: throwing of the crap of the wall, but it's it's

718
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 2: interesting crap.

719
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 4: Tasha, any thinking about this movie, have you taken an

720
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 4: account that there's a sexy lady gremlin?

721
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I will say I do not like

722
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 3: the sexy lady gremlin. I'm right there with you. I'm

723
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 3: clutching your head about the sexy lady.

724
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,439
Speaker 2: But can we talk about can we talk about what

725
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 2: our favorite gremlins are? Go around the table.

726
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 4: So I like the really dumb one, the Google eyed one, No,

727
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 4: there's a Google eye one, but there's like the kind

728
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 4: of like yokol one but.

729
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 3: With the teeth, with a bunch of yeah yeah.

730
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 4: But I also like the guy who's always with him,

731
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 4: like just a really mean, surly looking gremlin. That's that's

732
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 4: a favorite.

733
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 2: It's a good pairing. Genevie, do you have any favorite gremlins?

734
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 3: Well, I joked about the spider GREANMLA because those of

735
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 3: you who have listened to this podcast for a long

736
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 3: time though that I have a huge aversion to spiders

737
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 3: and just the sight of them. So I was prepared

738
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 3: for the spider gremlin going into this, and it was

739
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 3: not nearly as horrifying as I had prepared myself for.

740
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 3: But I don't know, let's see my favorite gremlin. I

741
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 3: can't say necessarily he's my favorite gremlin in terms of

742
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 3: like his gremlinness, but in terms of the gag that

743
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 3: he facilitates. I really like the bat gremlin and the

744
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 3: payoff with the concrete and the turning into the gargoyle.

745
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 2: That's a good one. Yeah, Tasha, Is that all right?

746
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 5: Am I insane? Or is that like an extended reference

747
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 5: to Larry Cohen's Q like visually speaking?

748
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, it looks like I mean, just just seen

749
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 4: that stop motion gremlin flying to the air.

750
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 2: It looks a lot like Yeah, that's an interesting point.

751
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I just I couldn't tell whether it was

752
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 5: just because.

753
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 3: Now there's a low hanging fruit reference for you.

754
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 2: I guess it would have been at the time, though

755
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 2: this wasn't that far off from about ten years.

756
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was okable all the.

757
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 2: Time, all the way back in ninety eight, eighty two,

758
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 2: eighty two. Okay, wow, you know that.

759
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 5: No, I've got in front of me. We're all sitting here.

760
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 2: As is Tash. You didn't have all of Larry Cohen's

761
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 2: filmography in your.

762
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 5: Head, you know, the long list of gremlins in this

763
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 5: movie has just completely pushed it out.

764
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: Super impressed. If if that was, if you just had

765
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 2: instant recall on on when he was made.

766
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 5: Apparently I should have lied and said that I did,

767
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 5: because I've got like a lot of ground to make

768
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 5: up in terms of you respecting me after this podcast.

769
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 3: Oh no, of course, always found to what your favorite

770
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 3: gremlin is. This is respect.

771
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 2: Maybe this is where we'll come together, Tasha, I don't

772
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 2: even understand why there's a question.

773
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 5: Tony Randall is the brain.

774
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 3: Oh, of course he is.

775
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 5: Brainy gremlin is the voice of this movie, like he is.

776
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 5: He is the voice explaining, like why the anarchy, like

777
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 5: what is going through all of these things? Had they're

778
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 5: they're just there are a bunch of like little well

779
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 5: they're literally gremlins, like I keep coming back to. These

780
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 5: are meant to be evocative of the things that messed up,

781
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 5: like airplanes in World War Two, Like this is meant

782
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,479
Speaker 5: to be evocative of just the idea that things break

783
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 5: down and there's chaos in the center, can't hold. This

784
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 5: is them personified, but he is a version of them

785
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 5: that expresses that like in intellectual terms, and it's endlessly

786
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 5: hilarious to me.

787
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

788
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 4: Also, that accent, it's like like an American trying to

789
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 4: do a bad English accent.

790
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 5: It is such a weird accent.

791
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 2: Now is that civilized? No fun but in no sense civilized? Yeah,

792
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 2: you're you're you're correct, Hasha. We will come together together.

793
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 5: That Brainy got'm right about something?

794
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 2: Well, I mean when he's on that panel show in

795
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 2: his preferessorial style and he's he's name checking all the

796
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 2: things that comprise civilization, the Geneva Convention, Susan Sontag dy

797
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 2: net sets convenient credit even when you've been turned down

798
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: in the past. I mean, that is just that is

799
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 2: a great list of what makes a civilization a civilization.

800
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 5: I mean it's both a hilarious description of civilization and

801
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 5: a hilariously wrongheaded idea of what the gremlins want. Like

802
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 5: it really seems like what the gremlins want is to

803
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 5: destroy and the idea that what the gremlins secretly want

804
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 5: is Susan's Sontag. It's just hilarious on.

805
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 3: The fact of it. But it isn't that like intercut

806
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 3: with like visuals of other gremlins like.

807
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 5: Just restroying everything.

808
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think it's it's like very intentionally like

809
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 3: you're supposed to think, like that's clearly not what the

810
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 3: gremlins want.

811
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 5: It means in his own way, like he's also being anarchic.

812
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 5: He's he is spouting nonsense for the like the cable

813
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 5: TV crowd. Basically he is being a talking head pundit

814
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 5: who has no idea what he's talking about, but is

815
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 5: saying it with the utmost authority, And I think that's

816
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 5: a deliberate.

817
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 2: Fun but in no sense civilized. Tasha is a good

818
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 2: job on your favorite gremlin, But who's our favorite non gremlin?

819
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I'm gonna cheat on this because you've

820
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,720
Speaker 5: already expressed your opinion of John Glover in this movie.

821
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: He is just.

822
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 5: Such a weird delight, Like he makes no narrative sense,

823
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 5: like he's meant to be this incredibly powerful mogul with

824
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 5: all of this vision and he's like a complete dim win.

825
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 5: But he embodies the sincerity that I think is missing

826
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 5: from this movie, like that Apocalypse tape that you mentioned,

827
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 5: the fact that he created that, the degree to which

828
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 5: he embraces like just everything he sees, Oh my gosh,

829
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 5: this art, it's perfect. I want to make a town

830
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 5: exactly like that. Oh my gosh, Like everything he sees

831
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 5: he loves. But he's incredibly dumb and easily led and

832
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 5: easily manipulated, and it's never not fun. Like the character

833
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 5: is utterly sincere and believes in everything that he's saying

834
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 5: in a way practically none of the rest of the

835
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 5: film does. That is my final answer. But I'm also

836
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 5: gonna just like throw out a line there for Don

837
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 5: and Dan Stanton as Martin and Lewis, the presumably cloned

838
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 5: scientists who were just it's just it's a visual gag

839
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 5: that just keeps on giving throughout the entire film.

840
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're really good.

841
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 4: I found myself thinking I'd be much more okay with

842
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 4: Daniel Klamp being president than the man who partially inspired him.

843
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 4: I do enjoy hits, his fake art of the deal

844
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 4: book cover, What's what's his what's his autobiography called I

845
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 4: Took Manhattan? I believe? Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I'm enjoyed.

846
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 4: I always enjoy that guy, Dick Miller, when when he's

847
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 4: in a movie and he's a lot of funnier. It's

848
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 4: fun to see him get a little bit more to

849
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 4: do than just just one scene or so, and he

850
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 4: seems to be enjoying it as well. If anyone's having

851
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 4: fun in this movie, it's Dick Miller.

852
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I mean, both of my choices have already

853
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 3: been spoken for, so I will just I will say

854
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 3: that like I enjoy's validation or vindication of what he

855
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 3: has been feeling and what he has been traumatized by

856
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 3: and like being able to stare it face to face

857
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 3: and to take it down. Like I think like that

858
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 3: in terms of this being a sequel and in terms

859
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 3: of there being some like narrative and character connection between

860
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 3: the two films, I think you get that most in

861
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 3: Murray more so than in Billy and Kate. It's a

862
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 3: redemptive arc, yes, exactly.

863
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'd like to give a shout out to

864
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: Robert Prosky is Grandpa Fred, who is the host of

865
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: a horror movie marathon show that is being pushed further

866
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 2: and further into the night. But he has some broadcasting

867
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 2: chops that he gets to use once the Grandma's take

868
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 2: over the building. So I enjoyed that character and just

869
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 2: got me thinking, now, all of these characters that we

870
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 2: did enjoy, you know, with Christopher Lee and Robert Prosky

871
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 2: and Robert Riccardo and John Glover.

872
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 4: Key Luke Allan Morris as Marlar Bloodstone as well, I

873
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 4: thought that was really un performance.

874
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I mean just like it seems fitting for

875
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 2: a film that is really such so much of a

876
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 2: doodle of a film that the marginal characters would be

877
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 2: the ones that would be more colorful and exciting to

878
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: us than the main characters. I mean, this is so

879
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 2: much a movie about little incidental, silly moments rather than

880
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: some driving, you know, narrative forcer, so which you end

881
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 2: ended up having maybe the lead characters who are not

882
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 2: that compelling to us, but a whole lot of people

883
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 2: on the side who are kind of a delight to see.

884
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 5: I mean, it's very much got an animaniacs feel to it.

885
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 5: It's it's very clearly something that's sort of evoking that

886
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 5: idea of taking place on the Warner back lot and

887
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 5: evoking all of these Warner properties. And one of the

888
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 5: gremlins gets a Warner Brothers you know shield painted onto

889
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 5: his chest or tattooed I guess on with chest and

890
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 5: then like all of these references, Like it's it's evoking

891
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 5: that kind of particular brand of insider biz nonsense. And

892
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 5: part of that is having a huge collection of character

893
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 5: actors who you know that that feel of their just

894
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 5: hanging around the lot. So of course, like all your

895
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 5: old favorites are here hanging out.

896
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 3: To get meta, because what an appropriate episode to get meta.

897
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 3: When I arrived here at Swede Emulsion Studios, Scott's young

898
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 3: daughter was watching animaniacs, and I said, oh, my favorite.

899
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 3: So maybe that right there is sort of the key

900
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 3: to why I like to gremlins do so much.

901
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 2: That's right. Well with that Here at swede Emultion Studios,

902
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: we're going to take a break and we'll be back

903
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 2: with feedback. Now it's time for feedback, when our listeners

904
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 2: weigh in with their responses on recent episodes and anything

905
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: else in the world of film. We have a couple

906
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 2: of thoughts on our X two Infinity War pairing that

907
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 2: we'd like to share with you. Tasha, want to start us.

908
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,720
Speaker 5: Off, sure. This one is from a listener, Ben, He writes,

909
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 5: your recent episode on X two got me thinking about

910
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 5: the mutant metaphor and how it's changed since the X

911
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 5: Men were first created in nineteen sixty three. As you noted,

912
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 5: parallels are often drawn between the mutant's struggle and the

913
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 5: civil rights movement, and more recently, we've seen the metaphor

914
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 5: extend beyond race to other forms of difference like sexuality

915
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 5: and immigration status. However, while the X Men themselves have

916
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 5: typically had some degree of diversity since the debut of Storm,

917
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 5: Thunderbird and Sunfire in Giant Size X Men Number one,

918
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 5: the teams in the comics in the film still largely

919
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 5: focus upon your standard white, cis gender and straight action

920
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 5: figure types. The result is stories that try to evoke

921
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 5: difference as a social issue, yet still shy away from

922
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 5: difference in their own casts. That approach may have been

923
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 5: a necessary evil in the sixties, when a comic about

924
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 5: godlike African Americans could start riots, but the X Men's

925
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 5: mostly vanilla casts seem less defensible to me. As representation

926
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 5: has become more of a concern in entertainment, Why shouldn't

927
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 5: the X Men be as diverse as the Fast and

928
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,399
Speaker 5: the Furious, especially when the X Men are ostensibly about

929
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 5: protecting diversity from those who fear and hate it. Perhaps

930
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 5: such a shift has already begun with Deadpool two, which

931
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 5: features more varied team than any other X Men film

932
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 5: so far. If the dead Pool See Equal is as

933
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 5: successful as expected, then I hope the popularity of its

934
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 5: characters inspires Fox to make boulder casting choices in the

935
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 5: mainstream X Men films as well. In the year of

936
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 5: twenty eighteen, putting fancy sunglasses on James Marsden and having

937
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 5: them talk about how hard it is to be different

938
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 5: just doesn't cut it anymore.

939
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting that Ben notes that about Deadpool

940
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 3: two here, because this letter came to us before Deadpool

941
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 3: two came out. But Deadpool two does include a joke

942
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 3: about the X Men as an outdated metaphor for now

943
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 3: the metaphor for racism in the sixties. Yeah, so that's

944
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 3: kind of speaking directly to this.

945
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 4: Is impossible that Deadpool wrote.

946
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 3: That would be so Deadpool?

947
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 2: Do we really? Is there really any need for criticism

948
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,359
Speaker 2: at all now that Deadpool and Deadpool two exist? But

949
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 2: this is all a good point. And can we do

950
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 2: better than James Marsden with this fancy sunglasses? I think

951
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 2: we can.

952
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 5: I think it can do better than Cyclops in general.

953
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 5: Cyclops is just such a nothing character.

954
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 4: I've kind of really liked the Cyclops over the years.

955
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 4: I mean, Alex Popadamus has a really good essay in

956
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 4: Grantland twenty fourteen called difficult x Men of defensive Cyclops.

957
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 4: It's very much worth digging up. I've been called in

958
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 4: our household the Cyclops of the Keen Flips household as

959
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,720
Speaker 4: a sort of the you know, easily annoyed rules enforcer

960
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 4: of the house. I saw, you know, it's the immediate

961
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 4: identification has grown over the years too.

962
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 5: Wait, which X men are the other members of your household?

963
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 4: We got that far?

964
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 5: Actually, I'm not sure you can have a Cyclops by

965
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 5: himself that characters defined by his interactions with other people.

966
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 4: Yeah. And also just a near ely side note, I

967
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 4: through the comic book Legal Defense Fund, I ordered a

968
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 4: copy of an X Men grand designed by Ed Piscore,

969
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 4: which is this really cool comic, but he was doing

970
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 4: a limited number for this charity of sketches in the

971
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 4: middle and the opening, you know of the book, and

972
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 4: you don't get to choose. But my man and Cyclops

973
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 4: showed up in my copy. I was very happy.

974
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 5: I think this letter is a really good point, and

975
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 5: I think it's sort of an unfortunate outgrowth of how

976
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 5: much of the current film comics landscape comes out of

977
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 5: career characters that were created somewhere between the forties and

978
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 5: the sixties. There's so much stuff that like watching the

979
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 5: MCU Navigate, having characters with names like Proximate Midnight, or

980
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 5: just having like some of the things that came out

981
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 5: of the specific eras of comics when these characters were invented.

982
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 5: It's like, if you want to keep the fans. If

983
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 5: you want to respect your legacy, you have to keep

984
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 5: all of these elements. But at the same time, some

985
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 5: of these elements just look really really goofy today, and

986
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 5: some of them look kind of problematic. So, like, I

987
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 5: am still waiting for an X Men film to focus

988
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,720
Speaker 5: as much on Storm as like that character is worth,

989
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 5: given how many interesting changes have she's gone through, how

990
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 5: many really cool narratives have been built around her. I

991
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 5: do think that it would be nice to have an

992
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 5: X Men that was a little less like bland and

993
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 5: white and not in a first class kind of way

994
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 5: where the person of color is there so you can

995
00:47:58,800 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 5: die first in a stupid way.

996
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's fair, and I think I think

997
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 4: the comics have probably done a better job of first

998
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 4: find the lineup over the years than the films have.

999
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 4: But hopefully they'll catch up.

1000
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 5: Well, I mean they're in the process of catching up.

1001
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 5: There's a miss Marvel movie in planning in the Miles Morales,

1002
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 5: the first Miles Morales Spider Man movie into the Spider

1003
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 5: Verses coming out later this year.

1004
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 4: I mean X Men specifically, you know which is which

1005
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 4: still has a little ways to go.

1006
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 2: There's a lot of them though, there's a lot of mutants, right,

1007
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, But I think it's a good It's

1008
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 2: a good point and a good letter. The next one

1009
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 2: is an interesting question we got on Infinity War from

1010
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 2: Twitter a user named at gmuki. He writes, loved your

1011
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 2: Infinity War discussion. I was especially impressed by Scott's trendent insights.

1012
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, that part wasn't there. What do you

1013
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 2: think of the shift of the Marvel story template from

1014
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 2: quote here with father issues to quote hero who is

1015
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 2: a troubled father figure? Are the films aging with the

1016
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 2: target demographic?

1017
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 4: So who's you're referring to here? Is the hero who

1018
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 4: has a troubled father fi?

1019
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 5: I mean, there's been a lot said that Thanos is

1020
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 5: the true hero of Infinity War. He's unquestionably a troubled

1021
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 5: father figure. But you could also really point to Tony Stark.

1022
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,720
Speaker 4: Tony with Peter these days, it's kind of a trouble

1023
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 4: father figure.

1024
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 3: And and uh and and I mean Thor. The last

1025
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 3: Thor movie was a daddy issues movie to an extent,

1026
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 3: and The Guardians too was a daddy issues movie. And

1027
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 3: you know, like it's it's definitely something they've been trending

1028
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,839
Speaker 3: toward in their in their recent films. Uh, I'm not

1029
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 3: so sure about part of the question about is it

1030
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 3: aging with a target demographic, because like, I'm not sure

1031
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 3: what the target demographic is in this hypothetical.

1032
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, the target is the thought that maybe the

1033
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 2: people who started watching with Iron Man and it's it's

1034
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 2: it's so long and they've grown up a little bit

1035
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 2: or but but you're right, the target demographic is everyone.

1036
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 5: So does I mean, I feel like that's less a

1037
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 5: question of who the movies are aimed for and more

1038
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 5: a question of who the movies are being written by.

1039
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 5: I think it's us that the demographic is aging, and

1040
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 5: more that the creators are themselves, as so many creators

1041
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 5: are kind of putting themselves into their work. And you know,

1042
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 5: if you've been in this industry for decades, you're probably

1043
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 5: not a troubled teen trying to come to terms with

1044
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 5: a dad so much as you know, you're looking at

1045
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 5: some of these older issues they're going to bleed in.

1046
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 4: So it's going to be like those later Shrek films.

1047
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,399
Speaker 4: So it's like Shrek feeling like put down at work

1048
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:28,919
Speaker 4: or whatever, and where he's obsolete or the Ice Age

1049
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:30,399
Speaker 4: films or I think are kind of the same thing.

1050
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was going to bring that up. Of all of.

1051
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:33,879
Speaker 2: The critic.

1052
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 4: Well ogres, you know, they're they're very top heavy, and

1053
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 4: it just kind of weighs down after a while.

1054
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 3: A lot of core strength.

1055
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, of all the criticism that that, like I've edited

1056
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 5: over the years that have sort of sunk into my psyche,

1057
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 5: like Noel Murray's take on how the Ice Age film. Yes,

1058
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 5: basically you're right, written by a bunch of forty year

1059
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 5: old men, like writing movies for seven year olds about

1060
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 5: not as cool as it used to be when I

1061
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 5: was a teenager. It's just always really stuck with me.

1062
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 5: But yeah, it is that question of, like you, people

1063
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 5: write what they know.

1064
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:11,879
Speaker 2: So I haven't been up on I have been really

1065
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 2: been keeping up with the Infinity War discussion broadly speaking,

1066
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 2: What is this about Thanos being the hero of the

1067
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 2: thing that that more the protagonist, protagonist, more story than

1068
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 2: anybody else's sure?

1069
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, none in the sense it's.

1070
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: Not okay because I've seen that argue I don't like.

1071
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 2: I don't like that argument very much. The Empire being right, I.

1072
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 5: Think, No, No, just in terms of story arc like

1073
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 5: you know, he has a plan and a whole bunch

1074
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 5: of people stand in his way, and he heroically triumphs

1075
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 5: the end happily ever after. Like that is. That is

1076
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 5: the way the film is structured, and people are interested

1077
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 5: in that, whether they approve.

1078
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 3: Of it or not.

1079
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 2: Okay, got it. Well, now that that's now that we've

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Speaker 2: cleared all that up for me. That wraps our feedback

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Speaker 2: for this episode. We always appreciate when our listeners share

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Speaker 2: their thoughts, their recommendations, and anything else film related to

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Speaker 2: reach us. You can leave a short voicemail at seven

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Speaker 2: to seven three two three four nine seven three zero,

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Speaker 2: or email us at comments at Nextpictureshow dot net. We

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Speaker 2: may feature your response on a future episode or post

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00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 2: it on Facebook for discussion. That's it for this episode

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Speaker 2: of the Next Picture Show and part two we'll bring

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Speaker 2: in Deadpool two starring one man all purpose Gremlin, Ryan Reynolds.

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Speaker 2: Look for that later this week, or better yet, subscribe

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Speaker 2: to the Next Picture Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or

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00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 2: your podcatcher of choice. Find us at Next Picture Show

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Speaker 2: dot net, follow us at Facebook dot com slash Next

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Speaker 2: Picture Show, and follow us on Twitter at Next Picture

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Speaker 2: Pod so you'll always know when a new episode drops.

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Speaker 2: Until then, the elevator doors are open. Please leave.