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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 2: that brings you the secret histories and little known fascinating

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Speaker 2: facts and figures behind your favorite TV shows, movies, music,

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Speaker 2: and more. We are your two Jervy Jervy of Jermaine Minutia.

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Speaker 2: I'm Alex Heigel, simple but effective, and I'm Jordan Ron Todd.

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Speaker 2: And as you may have guessed, we are here today

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Speaker 2: talk about one of the load stars of daytime television,

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Speaker 2: nay television period throughout the nineties, the Jerry Springer Show.

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Speaker 2: Springer died in April, and so we thought it'd be

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Speaker 2: fitting to examine his show and the legacy and or

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Speaker 2: crater it left on the base of both mainstream television

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Speaker 2: and American culture period. Jordan final thoughts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think, whether or not we want

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Speaker 1: to admit it to ourselves, we were all Jerry Springer fans.

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Speaker 1: It's a show that appealed to our base level instincts.

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Speaker 1: It's the same part of us that can't resist rubbernecking

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Speaker 1: at a car accident. You know, the phrase train wreck

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Speaker 1: television seems a little too easy, But the Jerry Springer

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Speaker 1: Show made no bones about what it was. It was

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Speaker 1: basically a sanctioned hour where everyone could come together and say,

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Speaker 1: look at the weird people. And then, of course, after

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Speaker 1: all the chairs have been thrown and all the animals

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Speaker 1: have been defiled, you have Jerry come back at the

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Speaker 1: end with a televisual sermon to basically wrap everything up.

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Speaker 1: His final thoughts, who could ever forget take care of yourselves.

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Speaker 2: And each other? Yeah, it's yeah, were you. I wasn't

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Speaker 2: like banned for watching this show, but it was definitely

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Speaker 2: like my parents would have been like, what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I do it is wrong? I mean I

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Speaker 1: do better right? I mean it reminds me of that

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Speaker 1: sketch from David Mitchell and Robert Webb, The Mitchell and Webb.

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Speaker 2: Look, I miss this. I completely miss this reference. But

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to hear you explain it. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of my favorite British sketch shows. And

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Speaker 1: they do a fake preview for a very special TV

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Speaker 1: special called The Boy with an Arse for a Face,

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Speaker 1: and it features a pre oscar Olivia Coleman. But the

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Speaker 1: voiceovers say.

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Speaker 3: Continuing the sensitive freak show series, we'll be telling the

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Speaker 3: uplifting story of one boy's extraordinary bravery, as if that's

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Speaker 3: what you're interested in, rather than the fact that he's

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Speaker 3: got an.

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Speaker 2: Ass for a face.

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Speaker 4: Follow the trials and tribulations of one twelve year old

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Speaker 4: struggle to lead a normal life while also getting to

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Speaker 4: have a good old stare at the freak in a

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Speaker 4: way you can tell yourself is sort of okay, that's

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Speaker 4: the boy with an ass for a face, A story

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Speaker 4: of love and triumph, but.

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Speaker 2: With loads of juicy pictures of a boy with an.

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Speaker 1: Ass for a face.

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Speaker 2: This Sunday on.

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Speaker 1: Five Jerry Sprayer sort of has that whole feel to it.

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Speaker 5: It's trying to position itself sort of in a demonious way,

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Speaker 5: and it's really there's nothing redeeming about it, which obviously

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Speaker 5: made it uncomfortable viewing back then in the nineties and

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Speaker 5: early two thousands, and troubling to discuss now.

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Speaker 1: But you know, when it's nineteen ninety eight and you're

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Speaker 1: homesick from school and the price is right is over,

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Speaker 1: what else are you gonna watch?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, I don't know, dude. I this was

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Speaker 2: fascinating researching this very much, So Yeah, I don't think

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Speaker 2: I like him, Like I really think he's in many

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Speaker 2: ways the ultimate boomer and oh yeah, I can't. I can't. No,

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Speaker 2: I can't say that because they always get really red

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Speaker 2: ass and leave mean comments on iTunes. But like talk

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Speaker 2: about a guy who sold out his ideals for like

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Speaker 2: a paycheck.

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Speaker 1: Yes, started out working on Bobby Kennedy's campaign and wound up.

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Speaker 2: Having Yes. Yeah, they go it's really it's too fine

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Speaker 2: a point on it. But yeah, yeah, Sunrise Sunset. I

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Speaker 2: think that that's actually what American Pie is about. I did.

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Speaker 2: This is one of the most fascinating ones we've ever researched.

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Speaker 2: I'm extremely excited to get into it well, from the

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Speaker 2: horrifying circumstances of Springer's birth to his time in politics

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Speaker 2: before he ascended to the real seat of American power

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Speaker 2: daytime television, to the controversy surrounding his show and the

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Speaker 2: only chance you might have ever had to see Harvey

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Speaker 2: Kaitel play Jerry Springer. Here's everything you didn't know about

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Speaker 2: the Jerry Springer Show. Wow. Gerald Norman Springer was born

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Speaker 2: a day before Valentine's Day in nineteen forty four in

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Speaker 2: the literal actual London underground station of Highgate while was

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Speaker 2: being used as a shelter during the German bombing blitz

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Speaker 2: of London in World War Two. This just makes so

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Speaker 2: so much sense, his psychotic bent towards drama, coupled with

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Speaker 2: his ability to remain eerily placid throughout it all.

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Speaker 1: Of course, he was during the middle of a literal

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Speaker 1: bombing raid, and because I could bring anything back to

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Speaker 1: the Beatles. According to legend, John Lennon was also born

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Speaker 1: during a bombing raid during the blitz.

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Speaker 2: But there's a good chance that that was just a myth.

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Speaker 1: But and with this in mind, what do we think

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Speaker 1: about this actually just being a myth on Jerry's part too,

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Speaker 1: and the beginning of him being completely full of crab.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he's full of crab. I don't think

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Speaker 2: he lied about very much except for you know, we'll

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Speaker 2: get into the thing that he did lie about. But

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Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe that this seems reasonably true. I mean,

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Speaker 2: his parents were his family were German Jews who fled

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Speaker 2: from the Nazis. Some of his family was from Poland.

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Speaker 2: We know at least his both grandmothers died in the

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Speaker 2: concentration camps in Poland and Czechoslovakia. A great uncle did

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Speaker 2: as well, I've heard him say in other interviews that

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Speaker 2: twenty seven members of his family were killed by the

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Speaker 2: Nazis and they were staying in allegedly in East Finchley.

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Speaker 2: That's location, Yeah, exactly, and they got there before the

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Speaker 2: war broke out, great timing. They were staying in a

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Speaker 2: place that was designed for Jewish war refugees. You know, so,

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Speaker 2: I don't know it tracks. I don't think he would.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Don't call this, don't start calling bulls

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Speaker 2: on stuff now, we'll never get through this episode. True,

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Speaker 2: as he explained to the BBC in twenty twelve, during

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Speaker 2: the war, women who were in the ninth Month would

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Speaker 2: often spend the night in subway stations because those were

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Speaker 2: the bomb shelters. After the war they moved to a

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Speaker 2: block of East Finchley called Belvedere Court, designed funnily enough

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Speaker 2: by architect Ernst Freud, the son of psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud.

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Speaker 2: So there's another yo, whoa, yeah, another break in the

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Speaker 2: Springer wall.

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Speaker 1: Don't we talk about another of Freud's ancestors on here,

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Speaker 1: like his nephew or something. Maybe he was a painter,

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Speaker 1: you know what, he's a painter. I don't have that

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Speaker 1: in the roodexs Lucian Freud.

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Speaker 2: I think his name is. Oh, was it the Bob

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Speaker 2: Ross thing? Maybe? Interesting well. Springer added to the BBC

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Speaker 2: that some of his earliest memories of growing up in

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Speaker 2: London were looking out of the window of their flat

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Speaker 2: and watching the buses that passed by, the fifty eight

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Speaker 2: and the one O two uh. And then they immigrated

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Speaker 2: to the States in nineteen forty nine. On the RMS

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Speaker 2: Queen Mary and Jerry has spoken very movingly of his

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Speaker 2: mom going up on taking him up to the top

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Speaker 2: deck of the ship and looking at the Statue of Liberty,

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Speaker 2: and he said, in silence, all the ship's passengers gathered

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Speaker 2: on the top deck of this grand ocean liner as

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Speaker 2: we passed by the Statue of Liberty. My mom told

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Speaker 2: me in later years that while we were shivering in

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Speaker 2: the cold, I had asked her, what are we looking at?

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Speaker 2: What does the statue mean? In German? She replied, eintig

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Speaker 2: a laz one day everything in'tigi.

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Speaker 1: Have we talked about it as a sketch on the

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Speaker 1: Dana Carvey Show with a German saying polite things, saying

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Speaker 1: nice things? Yeah, yeah, it was a pleasure babysitting Kevin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is so weird.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we can't mention large ships of the early

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Speaker 1: twentieth century without me going off on a tangent.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, But.

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Speaker 1: The Queen Mary. This is very interesting to me because

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Speaker 1: my daytime TV sick viewing in the nineties, aside from

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Speaker 1: Jerry Springer and The Price Is Right, was Unsolved Mysteries,

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Speaker 1: and they did a whole episode on the Queen Mary

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Speaker 1: because it is apparently remarkably haunted. I remember there was

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Speaker 1: this one story that is just seered into my brain

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Speaker 1: on Unsolved Mysteries about there was somebody alone in the

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Speaker 1: indoor pool and then they're there by themselves, and then

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Speaker 1: they hear this big splash in the pool, and they

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Speaker 1: hear like the sound of a child, like laughing and giggling.

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Speaker 1: All right, children, ghost children are scarier than.

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Speaker 2: Regular ghosts, like you know, That's how I feel it, anyway.

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Speaker 2: And so they hear this child and they see this

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Speaker 2: like splashing in the water, but there's nobody there. And

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Speaker 2: then they see these little wet footprints emerged from the

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Speaker 2: pool with nobody above them, which is horrifying. Yeah, pretty,

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Speaker 2: I wish you hadn't said that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry. Apparently a child had drowned that pool

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Speaker 1: years earlier.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So immediately after seeing this episode of Unsolved Mysteries, I

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Speaker 1: became obsessed with the Queen Mary, which is now permanently

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Speaker 1: docked in Long Beach, California. That was the ship that

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Speaker 1: they used for the Posigoned Adventure as a location, and

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Speaker 1: so I insisted we go to see the Queen Mary

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Speaker 1: and because you know, it's a hotel.

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Speaker 2: And it scared the hell out of me.

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Speaker 1: Apparently something like fifty five people died on board, and

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Speaker 1: those are just the ones that were like officially noted.

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Speaker 2: There are probably more.

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Speaker 1: In fact, there's probably likely more, because there's been over

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty reports of ghostly appearances and paranormal activity.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's relatively benign, like the smell of cigars and perfume,

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Speaker 1: or the creaking of doors or knocks, or sudden squeals

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Speaker 1: or laughter, the sounds of people talking in an empty room.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they're a little more intense. One of the most

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Speaker 1: common apparitions is a bearded crewman in blue coveralls who

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Speaker 1: supposedly the ghost of a fireman who was by getting

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Speaker 1: crushed underneath a watertight door during a fire drill. It's

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Speaker 1: also supposedly a woman in white who roams the ship

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Speaker 1: picker poison. It's all terrifying. And now the fact that

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Speaker 1: this hotel is closed indefinitely while they're trying to sort

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Speaker 1: out their financial situation. I think the Queen Mary Hotel

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Speaker 1: went bankrupt. It's just a literal ghost ship, abandoned and

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Speaker 1: empty off the coast of Los Angeles. Wow, you're not

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Speaker 1: too far from there. You should check it out.

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Speaker 2: You had me at drowning child. The Springers settled back

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Speaker 2: to The Springers settled in Queens, where his parents, his

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Speaker 2: mom worked in a bank and his dad worked as

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Speaker 2: a street vendor of toys, encouraged their kids to assimilate

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Speaker 2: to American culture by joining activities like baseball and boy Scouts.

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Speaker 2: Jerry's mom bought him a Yogi bearra Yankees jersey, which

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Speaker 2: changed his fortunes at school and jump started his lifelong

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Speaker 2: affection for the team.

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Speaker 1: Apparently, in his early broadcast career, he spoke with a

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Speaker 1: really the Queen's accent that got him, i'll say, affectionately

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Speaker 1: mocked by his colleagues.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean someone talked about him coming to Cleveland

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Speaker 2: with a Boston like, an affected Boston accent, but also

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Speaker 2: like Queen's and the South because he went to New Orleans,

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Speaker 2: so he must have had just a deeply busies Yeah, exactly. So.

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Speaker 2: His folks also pushed Jerry and his older sister Evelyn

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Speaker 2: to stay informed about current events. Springer remembers being fascinated

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Speaker 2: by the civil rights movement and watching the nineteen fifty

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Speaker 2: six Democratic National Convention on television. He was impressed by

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Speaker 2: then Senator John F. Kennedy. Springer graduated from Forest Hills

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Speaker 2: High School, home of the Rhones, in nineteen sixty one,

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Speaker 2: which means that he was there at the same time

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Speaker 2: as both Simon and Garfunkle, which I think is funny.

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Speaker 2: I like to imagine them bullying Paul Simon. I like

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Speaker 2: to imagine he shoved Paul Simon into a locker. Then

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Speaker 2: he headed to New Orleans to attend Tulane, where he

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Speaker 2: majored in political science, and then to Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois,

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Speaker 2: where he earned his juris doctor in nineteen sixty eight.

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Speaker 2: Springer began clerking for a law firm while at school

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Speaker 2: and having met Bobby Kennedy at a dinner party of

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Speaker 2: the year before he signed on for Kennedy's presidential campaign

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Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty eight, basically just in time for Kennedy

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Speaker 2: to be assassinated. Bobby Kennedy was in politics for all

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Speaker 2: the right reasons, Springer told Cincinnati's WVXU in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 2: especially in the final years of his life. He cared

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Speaker 2: about people who were struggling, who were discriminated against, who

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Speaker 2: had no chance to succeed. Whi else being politics unless

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Speaker 2: you want to make life better for people who have nothing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is like some Forrest gum Zelig action

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Speaker 2: going on. I can't believe the number of historical moments

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Speaker 2: that he was directly involved in or affected by, from

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Speaker 2: Bobby Kennedy to the Blitz to one of the last

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Speaker 2: like immigration stories of being on the boat and looking

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Speaker 2: at Statue of Liberty to sign at Garfunkle, like yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is really nuts, and there's more and then yeah.

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Speaker 2: Galvanized by Kennedy's murder, Springer joined the anti war movement

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Speaker 2: again just in the nick of time to be at

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Speaker 2: the infamous Democratic National Convention in Chicago in nineteen sixty eight,

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Speaker 2: which turned into a landmark moment of police brutality.

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Speaker 1: I have a lot to say about this, because I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised if this, more than any other single

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Speaker 1: event in Jerry Springer's life, directly led to the creation

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Speaker 1: of The Jerry Springer Show as we know it. The

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Speaker 1: police beatings in the streets of Chicago were filmed by

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Speaker 1: news crews from essentially every network and beamed into American

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Speaker 1: living rooms, a fact that was not lost on these protesters,

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Speaker 1: who chanted the whole world is watching while being pummeled.

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Speaker 2: By police nightsticks.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, inside the convention, the Democratic Party was openly feuding

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Speaker 1: with one another, as the nomination was split just basically

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Speaker 1: due to the power vacuum left by Bobby Kennedy after

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Speaker 1: his death. So you had unprecedented hostility towards politicians of

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Speaker 1: the same party. You've got Senator Abe Ribakoff of Connecticut

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Speaker 1: openly accusing Chicago Mayor Dick Daly of quote Gestapo style

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Speaker 1: tactics in the streets of Chicago, to which Mayor Dally

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Speaker 1: retaliated by climbing on stage and hurling anti Semitic slurs

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Speaker 1: at the sky. And this was broadcast and then even

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Speaker 1: on Network News. You had commentators Gorvidell and William F.

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Speaker 1: Buckley who were posed as like having a.

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Speaker 2: Debate show, openly fighting with one another, dropping homophobic slurs

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Speaker 2: and calling each other crypto fascist or crypto Nazis. Something

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Speaker 2: fascist or Nazi was said, Yeah, you call me a

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Speaker 2: crypto fascist. When we're timed, I'm going to knock your

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Speaker 2: block off. Yes, exactly, like sock you in the mouth.

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Speaker 2: That something would be said.

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Speaker 1: My point being, the floor of the nineteen sixty eight

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Speaker 1: DNC looked an awful lot like an episode of the

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Speaker 1: Jerry Springer Show. So seeing this chaos firsthand in the

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Speaker 1: street and in the Democratic National Convention and the resulting

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Speaker 1: headlines and furor that resulted as it was broadcast in

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Speaker 1: American homes, I have to imagine this had.

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Speaker 2: A major impact on young Jerry Springer. Sure he must

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Speaker 2: have filed that away, it didn't matter. Whatever lessons this

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Speaker 2: left him were not strong enough to embrace the lore

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Speaker 2: of the horse. If you are a child of Holocaust survivors,

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Speaker 2: it's hard not to be a liberal. Spriner told WVXU,

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Speaker 2: twenty seven members of my family were wiped out. You're

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Speaker 2: learned that you never judge people on what they are,

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Speaker 2: but what they do. The following year, Springer, He's been

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Speaker 2: to every I just read he's been to every single

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Speaker 2: Democratic convention since nineteen sixty eight. That scans. That's incredible.

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Speaker 2: Imagine the Democratic National Convention being like your lollapalooza, like

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Speaker 2: I go every year. Yeah, just reconnect with the same

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Speaker 2: old people. Yeah, talk about the good times. Uh yeah.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen sixty nine, he landed in Cincinnati with the Frost

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Speaker 2: and Jacob's law firm and embarked on a campaign to

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Speaker 2: change the voting age in Ohio from twenty one to eighteen,

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Speaker 2: which was set him on a path that actually led

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Speaker 2: him to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee in favor

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Speaker 2: of ratifying the twenty sixth Amendment, which dropped the voting

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Speaker 2: aged in eighteen across the entire country. I have something

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Speaker 2: to say, go on. Is it about a big vote, No,

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Speaker 2: it's about mister Rogers. Close.

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Speaker 1: I just the similarities I'm starting to notice between Jerry

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Speaker 1: Springer and mister Rogers are kind of strange. How they

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Speaker 1: both kind of like sermonized during their shows, albeit in

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Speaker 1: very different ways. You've got Jerry with his final thoughts

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Speaker 1: and mister Rogers with the totality of his show. But

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Speaker 1: they both had their start in like completely different arenas

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Speaker 1: Fred Rodgers in the seminary and Jerry Springer in politics,

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Speaker 1: and they both testified before the government House authorities to

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Speaker 1: forward their causes, mister Rodgers to try to get PBS

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Speaker 1: off the ground and Jerry Springer to try to expand

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Speaker 1: the voting age. It kind of falls apart after that,

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Speaker 1: but with the whole horse copulation thing.

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Speaker 2: But I don't I don't think Jerry Springer was like

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Speaker 2: a good person though, like I at least not in

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Speaker 2: the years that like quit your show, dude, Like if

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Speaker 2: you really want to like be such a if you

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Speaker 2: really want to go back to politics, that bad. I

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Speaker 2: mean there is something poetic about it, like whether or

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Speaker 2: not he like truly felt so trapped that he never

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Speaker 2: had any opportunity, or if you just liked the easy

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Speaker 2: paycheck like that's and I don't think I don't think

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Speaker 2: either of those readings are especially charitable. But also like, yeah, dude,

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Speaker 2: quit your job, like if your job, if you feel

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Speaker 2: that conflicted and like really want to help people and

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Speaker 2: be like a good liberal or whatever, like quit your

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Speaker 2: job or I don't know, donate a lot more money. Uh,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Well, I'm putting the cart ahead of

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Speaker 2: the horse. You know.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is when you can start comparing him to

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Speaker 1: either Ben Affleck or Billy Joel in that he's somebody

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Speaker 1: yeah making connections here, aspires to something higher, but he's stuck.

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Speaker 1: He's trapped in this middle brow brow let's be honest

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Speaker 1: with ourselves, yeah, realm. And he's just sort of like

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Speaker 1: resigned himself to it, and he talks about but he

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Speaker 1: did have an interesting.

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Speaker 2: Justification for it.

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Speaker 1: I think we get to it later in the episode

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Speaker 1: where he said, you know, my show gives voice to

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Speaker 1: Americans that really don't get much exposure. I mean, again,

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Speaker 1: he's a politician at heart, so I'm sure he's great

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Speaker 1: at justifying whatever the hell he wants. But that's an

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Speaker 1: interesting I mean, it's a cheap defense because it's one

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Speaker 1: where you can't really respond to it.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, I don't know, I don't want

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Speaker 2: to get into this mud slinging, but kind of him anyway,

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Speaker 2: a cart horse. In nineteen seventy, Springer ran for the

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Speaker 2: US House of Representatives and, despite being such a died

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Speaker 2: in the wool liberal. He got forty five percent of

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Speaker 2: the vote against his Republican incumbent opponent. So that's a

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Speaker 2: difficult thing to pull off, especially in Ohio. Three days

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Speaker 2: after announcing his candidacy as an Army reservist, he was

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Speaker 2: called to active duty and sent off to Fort Knox

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Speaker 2: and then just picked up his campaign after he was

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Speaker 2: discharged getting sent into the Army reserves days after racking

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Speaker 2: up that kind of Oh he lost.

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Speaker 1: Never mind, I was gonna say that that almost seems

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Speaker 1: like some kind of Nixonian dirty trick thing where they like,

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Speaker 1: all right, this guy got a little too close to winning,

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Speaker 1: call him up, like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, right, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, also, it's interesting in nineteen seventy in Ohio

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Speaker 1: is when the massacre at Kent State happened. So I

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Speaker 1: wonder if there was just so much dissatisfaction with people

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Speaker 1: perceived as right wing that that would be at why

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Speaker 1: a young Democrat might have performed so well against the

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Speaker 1: Republican incumbent, because that would have been what November nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy and Kent State was May of nineteen seventy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. I mean, they called him like the

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Speaker 2: boy wonder of Ohio politics. That's hilarious. Yeah, I mean was.

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Speaker 2: He then successfully ran for Cincinnati City Council in nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy one when he was just twenty seven, and his

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Speaker 2: first action, Yeah, his first action was to propose a

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Speaker 2: ban on drafting Cincinnati residence into the into Vietnam. Ken

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Speaker 2: mayors like, do that like just violent? I think it

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Speaker 2: might have Yeah, I think it might have been ending.

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Speaker 2: I think it might have been a stunt. But you

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Speaker 2: know whatever, let him, you know, good for him.

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Speaker 1: Are you lying down on the bed with your feet

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Speaker 1: up like the telephone hour scene and bye by Bertie?

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Speaker 2: I am, oh, yeah, yeah. I don't have very many

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Speaker 2: other good places to tape here, So this is this

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Speaker 2: is what we're doing. It'll really be hurting my neck

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Speaker 2: by hour three when you bring up another large boat.

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Speaker 2: Young Jerry was, as Cleveland consultant Patricia Garry told this

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Speaker 2: American Life quote, absolutely the most gifted natural politician I

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Speaker 2: ever saw. Mike Ford, who is a Democratic political strategist

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Speaker 2: at the national level, who worked on the Howard Dean's campaign,

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Speaker 2: which you know, but can't blame Mike Ford for that,

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Speaker 2: baw uh. He met Springer back in the seventies, and

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Speaker 2: he also told This American Life, I worked with Clinton

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Speaker 2: in ninety and ninety two, Tocaucus in eighty eight, nineteen eighty,

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Speaker 2: I worked for Kennedy seventy six, Jimmy Carter. Jerry Springer

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Speaker 2: was the best I've ever seen bar Nune. One major

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Speaker 2: triumphant coup that Springer pulled off that was recollected in

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Speaker 2: This American Life episode was he basically forced a confrontation

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Speaker 2: with another guy on city council and that should have

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Speaker 2: been like a routine procedural vote to get public funds

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Speaker 2: allocated for what would have been what was the Riverfront

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Speaker 2: Arena in Cincinnati, and Jerry didn't think it was right

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Speaker 2: to have public funds pay for it, but he successfully

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Speaker 2: turned the tide of public opinion against the position and

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Speaker 2: against his opponent on city Council. And in fact, the

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Speaker 2: Riverfront Arena was constructed with very few public funds. Just

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Speaker 2: so fascinating. I mean, yeah, that's I agree with him

402
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Speaker 2: on that. Around this time he married a woman named

403
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Speaker 2: Mickey Velton, who worked for the local mega corp Procter

404
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Speaker 2: and Gamble, but his his career and his marriage were

405
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Speaker 2: both derailed in nineteen seventy four, when police rated a

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Speaker 2: northern Kentucky bravl that was disguised as a health club

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Speaker 2: and uncovered in its records a personal check from Jerald

408
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Speaker 2: Springer to a prostitute, massage therapist, whatever for services rendered. Rookie. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's such a punchline. I think so many

410
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Speaker 2: people were. Most of the crux of the scandal was

411
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Speaker 2: not that it was bad for him to have visited

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Speaker 2: a sex worker, but to have paid for it with

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Speaker 2: a personal check. Anyway, Springer confessed to his infidelity and

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Speaker 2: took you know, was very contrite about this in a

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Speaker 2: big televised press conference, and then he resigned.

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Speaker 1: This is just so fascinating to me because literally all

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Speaker 1: of the pieces of Jerry Springer as we know him

418
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Speaker 1: and love him are coming together from televised chaos to

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Speaker 1: elaborate extramarital gotcha's do cheerful pleading on television.

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Speaker 2: I just I can't get over this. Yeah, and this conference.

421
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Speaker 2: People still talk about this as a watershed moment because

422
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Speaker 2: he was at a low point, and he later said

423
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Speaker 2: of it on a newscast that he was doing to

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Speaker 2: be honest, the thought about ending at all crossed my mind,

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Speaker 2: but a more reasonable alternative seemed to be, Hey, how

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Speaker 2: about just leaving town, running away, starting life over someplace else.

427
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Speaker 2: But this conference that he had, he was so well

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Speaker 2: loved in the area, and this moment of candor and

429
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Speaker 2: vulnerability and whatever was so well received that he was

430
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Speaker 2: elected back to City Council, and then the city council

431
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Speaker 2: named him as mayor for a term for one year,

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Speaker 2: and he received the most votes for mayor of anyone

433
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati history at that point. He won by the

434
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: biggest margin. Jerry Springer Cincinnati Mayor, biggest margin in the

435
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 2: town's history at that point. One of his comeback speeches

436
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: nodded to the prostitution controversy. The Cincinnati acquire had dragged

437
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 2: up one that said, a lot of you don't know

438
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 2: anything about me, but I'll tell you one thing you

439
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: do know. My credit is good. Hamilton County Democratic Chairman

440
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 2: Tim Burke, who is at the time Springer's legislative aid,

441
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 2: has a fascinating anecdote about how well this comeback went.

442
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: He said, some of the nuns out at the College

443
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 2: of Mount Saint Joseph started a thing where they were

444
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 2: sending stones and little pebbles to the other members of

445
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 2: Cincinnati City Council to encourage them to reject Springer's resignation,

446
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 2: with the message that he who is without sin should

447
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: cast the first stone.

448
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: This will be the last time that nuns would come

449
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: to the defense of Cherry Springer. I'll do it, I'll, i'll,

450
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: I'll cast the first stone. I didn't give you love

451
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: casting stones? You got any stones to cast? Right now?

452
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 2: Who got cast a stone? At?

453
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: I get you a st I can caste.

454
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: Burke also remembered Springer's flair for the dramatic as a

455
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 2: polic titian. To Cincinnati dot Com, he once wrestled a

456
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 2: bear for charity, spent a night in jail known as

457
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 2: the Workhouse in Camp Washington to learn about the plight

458
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: of the prisoners there, and stole quote a bus and

459
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 2: drove it around the block at a press conference to

460
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 2: commemorate the city taking over bus service.

461
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: Politicians spending a night in jail such an old, tired,

462
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: seventies grand standing trick.

463
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 2: That's like so many of them did that. My favorite

464
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 2: one is in Chicago when the mayor moved into Cabrini

465
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: Green and was like it's safe and then lasted like

466
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 2: two weeks.

467
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: I didn't know that, was it.

468
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 2: Dick Daily, Uh no, Cabrini, Yeah, Mayor Jane Byrne three weeks.

469
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, so she late. She lasted three weeks and

470
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: then dipped out. Though it was often reported that Springer

471
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: and his wife, Mickey Velton separated and eventually divorced in

472
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four, a rep was correcting this when he

473
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 2: died earlier this year, saying that the divorce had ever

474
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: gone through and they were still married. The couple had

475
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: a daughter, Katie, in nineteen seventy six. She was born

476
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: without nasal passages, interesting medical complication. She underwent immediate surgery

477
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,479
Speaker 2: after her birth, and she's I believe, legally blind and

478
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 2: deaf in one ear. And then in two thousand and six,

479
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: Springer donated two hundred and thirty thousand dollars to the

480
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: Park School in Chicago, where she works as an assistant teacher,

481
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: and they constructed a high tech facility called Katie's Corner

482
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 2: for students with disabilities. So that's nice. Springer served just

483
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 2: a year as mayor due to an arrangement with a

484
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 2: local third party group at the time that limited the

485
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: amount of years he could serve during his time in office,

486
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 2: he had a regular commentary So I've no idea what

487
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 2: that means, don't ask me to elaborate. During his time

488
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: in office, he had a regular commentary slot on local

489
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 2: rock station WEBN called the Springer Memorandum, which you starting

490
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: to see the groundwork of his latter day career shift here.

491
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 2: And by nineteen eighty two, he decided to run for

492
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: governor of Ohio, but his opponents dredged up the prostitution scandal,

493
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 2: and despite continuing to address it in his own campaign,

494
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 2: ads with a candor that proved so successful before he

495
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: finished third for the Democratic nomination, putting his political career

496
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 2: in the review. After his political fortune sank, Jerry Springer

497
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: moved to TV. He was still popular enough to draw

498
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: an audience, and he joined the NBC affiliate WLWT, and

499
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,199
Speaker 2: he turned out to be a natural as anchorman and

500
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 2: managing editor for the station's nightly news broadcast, the station

501
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: ascended to the top slot in the market.

502
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: His reports ended with a nightly commentary sort of akin

503
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: to his future show's final thought, and that's where he

504
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 1: coined his famous sign off, take care of yourselves and

505
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: each other, and the show performed great in the ratings

506
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: and eventually earned him a total of seven local Emmys.

507
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 2: The last, It's so funny, the last he would have

508
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: ever come within sniffing distance of an Emmy. I'm alst

509
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: surprised that he didn't win an Emmy for something weird

510
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: on like Jerry Springer Show. Later, I don't know what.

511
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: I think they started opening the show with like zero emmys,

512
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: zero respect, or something like that.

513
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: He later said of his time as a newsman, I

514
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: wasn't even thinking about anchoring at the time. I was

515
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,719
Speaker 1: just thinking, well, I'll get to do commentary, and then

516
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it kind of got a life

517
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: of its own, and I enjoyed it. I always made

518
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: an excuse not to run for office again because I

519
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. And he was sort of known for his stunts.

520
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: I mean, he was known for pulling stunts in office,

521
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: like we just said, spend the night in jail and

522
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 1: wrestling a bear and stealing a bus, and he performed

523
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: similar stunts, well slightly less illegal stunts on WLWT. He

524
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: performed on stage in nineteen eighty five and Broadways Damn Yankees.

525
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: He joined the Cincinnati Reds baseball training camp for a

526
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: report in nineteen eighty eight, and he covered various games

527
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: and which Cincinnati teams figured, including.

528
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: The nineteen eighty nine Super Bowl in.

529
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: Miami, and capitalizing on Jerry Springer's popularity as an anchor

530
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: and commentator, in nineteen ninety he attempted his own public

531
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: affairs show on the network wl WT, and in nineteen

532
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: ninety nine, Multimedia Entertainment bought the show for broadcasts and

533
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: it's four television networks, and for many in the Midwest

534
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: news world, it seemed like Multimedia Entertainment was trying to

535
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: position Jerry as the heir apparent to the jewel of

536
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: their Midwest talk show, stable Phil Donna Hue.

537
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 2: Did you ever watch Phil donnahu much? He wasn't really available.

538
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: I was, yeah, ye, a little before our time, and

539
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: I don't think really aired where I was. Multimedia This

540
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: company launched Donahue in nineteen seventy and continue to expand

541
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: its lineup. They're the folks behind the Sally Jesse Raphael

542
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: Show in nineteen.

543
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 2: Eighty three out of Saint Louis, and also Jerry Springers

544
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety one, which I believe premiered in Cincinnati.

545
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 2: NBC then purchased Jerry's show for its owned and operated stations,

546
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 2: and the next year Springer moved production to NBC's tower

547
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: in Chicago. It's fun to he's such a Midwest guy.

548
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 2: I don't know why. It's just it's so bizarre. He

549
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: was born in London and lived in New York City.

550
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 2: I know from the For the first few years upon

551
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: him his show is on, Springer did serious Donahue like stuff.

552
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 2: I mean, he interviewed disgraced Iran contra Ghoul, Allie North,

553
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 2: the Reverend Jesse Jackson. He discussed issues like homelessness, the

554
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: AIDS crisis, domestic violence, race and equality. He also did

555
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,719
Speaker 2: feature other less or perhaps more distinguished guest stars from

556
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: time to time, like Shockpunk Gigi Allen and Gwar Pride

557
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 2: of Richmond, Virginia Gwar Baby. Even after his show moved

558
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 2: to Chicago for its second season, Springer continued to commute

559
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: home nightly to anchor his old evening news slot with

560
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,479
Speaker 2: his longtime co anchor, Norma Rashid, though after their ratings

561
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 2: fell from first to third, he quit Channel five in

562
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three to do full time daytime TV, which, Yeah,

563
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: you sure love news until you weren't winning at it anymore,

564
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: and then he went to the other thing.

565
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: That's like a five hour drive between Chicago and Cincinnati. Damn,

566
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: I guess he flew, but flying every night, Hugh.

567
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 2: The move may have been a mistake because by April

568
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four, the ratings for his show were so

569
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: bad that Multimedia threatened to cancel him if ratings didn't

570
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: improve by that November, and that led to a major

571
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: overhaul of the creative team. The original executive producer, Terry

572
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 2: Weibel Murphy was replaced by Richard Dominick.

573
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, this creative overhaul, I imagine involved catering to the

574
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: lowest of the lowest common denominators.

575
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: Hey, Richard Dominick is an interesting guy. He began his

576
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: career in theater and comedy and then moved on to

577
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: the tabloids. He wrote for the very famous Weekly World News.

578
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 2: Some of his biggest hits were things like Howdy Doody

579
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: Dummy comes alive and saves drowning man and he is

580
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: currently You can see his an interview about a toaster

581
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 2: possessed by the Devil on YouTube if you so choose.

582
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: He wasn't a stranger to television either. His tabloid work

583
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: earned him a number of appearances on Dave Letterman Show.

584
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 2: By the time he went to Springer, Dominick were called

585
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 2: to A and E that the first responsible iteration of

586
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: Springer's show never really took off. It never was exciting.

587
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: I hate to say it was dull, but it probably was.

588
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: The La Times sniffed into contemporaneous review that Springer's first

589
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: show was oppressively self important and starring as Cincinnati news

590
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 2: anchorman and former mayor talk about coastal elitism. So Jerry

591
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 2: and I took a walk around Chicago, Dominic told the

592
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: Seattle Times in nineteen ninety eight. We said, hey, let's

593
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 2: be outrageous, and at the time I said to producers,

594
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 2: don't bring it to me. If it's not interesting with

595
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,239
Speaker 2: the sound off. That's your approach to porn, isn't it.

596
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 2: He added to eighty years later, we decided we were

597
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 2: going to go after what I like to call the

598
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: Letterman crowd, because there was nobody doing a show for

599
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 2: college kids. But a much more telling quote he gave

600
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: to the BBC when he was asked to defend Springer,

601
00:32:54,080 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: if I could kill someone on television, I would as

602
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: you meditate on that, We'll be right back with more

603
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: too much information after these messages. So by December of

604
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four, the tide had begun to turn. The

605
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: show was featuring topics like my boyfriend turned out to

606
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 2: be a girl and I want my man to stop

607
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 2: watching porn, as well as a show that investigated the

608
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 2: relative merits of large versus small breasts. A nineteen ninety

609
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: five episode featured a young man named Raymond, whose Springer

610
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: was helping to lose his virginity. Springer offered him, I

611
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: guess I put that in quotes. I should put that

612
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: in quotes. I don't know, it's horrifying, offered him five

613
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 2: young women hidden by a screen that he could choose from.

614
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 2: Raymond had a friend named Woody with him, and an

615
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: on screen graphic. Then told viewers wood he doesn't know it,

616
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: but his eighteen year old virgin sister is one of

617
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: the contestants.

618
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 1: There's no way, this is no way.

619
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 2: I know.

620
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: That's not like the first reaction I should have to

621
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: what you just said.

622
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: Well, Springer put the most responsible spin on this change

623
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 2: that he could, or my personal theory is that he

624
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 2: just had nuclear grade justification powers, He wrote in his

625
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight biography Ringmaster, it was time to listen

626
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 2: to the public, to show another side of life rarely

627
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: if ever, seen on television. As he put it at

628
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 2: the end of a twenty fifteen episode, his show focused

629
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 2: on regular folks of no fame, little if any wealth,

630
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: and very little influence. Folks just taking a moment which

631
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: they rarely if ever get to let the world know

632
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 2: something about what they are thinking or feeling or doing.

633
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 2: What a world class bull artist. I'm sorry, Well, what

634
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 2: do you expect.

635
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: It's Jerry Springer And I didn't even know before we

636
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: started this.

637
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 2: I didn't even know he hit a background in politics,

638
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: of course. I mean that's the thing that bothers me,

639
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: is like I don't just don't think he was that

640
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 2: bothered by I mean, you know, he's a complex People

641
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: are complex. People can feel two things that he but

642
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 2: like all this justification and then having the horse fire

643
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 2: and then like all the shit that he had on there,

644
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 2: and like, you know, it wasn't it wasn't sixty minutes.

645
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 2: It wasn't Charlie Rose like the show is mean and

646
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: like and as much as he would like furrow his

647
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: brow and and you know, do some introduction to creative

648
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 2: nonfiction pandering at the end of episode with his little

649
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 2: monologues like the show is mean and it was not

650
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 2: responsible and if I read a lot of interviews with

651
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: him for this, and he just had this say, he's like, oh,

652
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 2: it's chewing gum. And I just don't know that people

653
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: really ever pushed him in being were like shut the shop,

654
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: what's wrong with you? Whatever, whatever, whatever, It doesn't matter.

655
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: In my position as the resident optimist on the show,

656
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 2: there was at least a somewhat laudable aspect to a

657
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 2: very small portion of this. Many of Springer's LGBTQ.

658
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: Guests were actually the very first exposure that mainstream Americans

659
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: had to queer culture. For example, in nineteen ninety five,

660
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: there were two performances by Comedy Central transgender star Jade

661
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: Esteban Estrata, and in twenty fourteen, after finding out the

662
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: trans community was upset by Jerry's use of the of

663
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: a slur, I'm going to say it of a slur

664
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: that he used on the show. He struck it from

665
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: the broadcast, telling TMZ, I didn't know it was offensive

666
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: to them, and I'm not interested in offending people, so

667
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: obviously I'll just change the term. There's no argument there.

668
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's nice. I guess. Someone also tweeted

669
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: when he died that they as a project like as

670
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 2: some kind of I don't know why you embark on

671
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 2: this project. But they were attempting to catalog all of

672
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 2: the homophobic language that appeared on the shows like Chiron's,

673
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: the scrolling text and graphics and introductions, and they gave

674
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 2: up because it was just too much for them. That's

675
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like I have oh yeah, you know,

676
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: he has this justification where he's talking like he's you know,

677
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: Walter Crunkite, which I probably saw saw himself as in

678
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 2: some horrifying real self delusionment. But it was just like

679
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 2: that show. It was it was. It was nasty, yeah,

680
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: you know. The slide towards the new moral lows and

681
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: new rating size, though, was a fast one.

682
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 5: Uh.

683
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,439
Speaker 2: Episodes like Kung Fu Hillbilly and I'm Happy I cut

684
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 2: off my legs. That's so tough because that's like a

685
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: legitimate medical condition. And this woman like went to a

686
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 2: bunch of doctors and was like, please amputate my legs

687
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 2: and they were like no, and she did it herself,

688
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 2: like what what. Nineteen ninety five episodes saw Springer get

689
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 2: into a fraud moment with an outwardly and virulently anti

690
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: Semitic priest, telling him I don't hate you, I feel

691
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: sorry for you. Then the priest got into a Holocaust

692
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 2: denial rant, and Springer told him to shut your face,

693
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 2: and the guy jumped out of his chair. It was

694
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: the most Springer ever got involved in any of the

695
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 2: in any of the shows. He reflected on the challenges

696
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: of filming that episode too People Magazine in twenty nineteen

697
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: said I'm supposed to be able to handle all the

698
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 2: outrageous things, but I put my finger in his face

699
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: and yelled at him. Suddenly he stood up, and he

700
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 2: was a big guy. I was like, oh, this was

701
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: not a good idea. Thankfully security got him on the ground.

702
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 2: There was also a notorious nineteen ninety seven episode called Clanfrontation,

703
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 2: in which Springer moderated a conversation between members of the

704
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 2: Ku Klux Klan and the Jewish Defense League, which devolved

705
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 2: into a brawl. And then another memorable episode featured Lady

706
00:38:54,080 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 2: Ice Queen and Princess a mother daughter Dominatrix duo. Do

707
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 2: I want to know what that was about? I didn't,

708
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't watch very many of these. I

709
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 2: was going to go and pull a bunch of clips

710
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 2: that we could that we could punch in, but descriptions

711
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: alone seemed they paint a picture I didn't. I didn't

712
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 2: feel like staring that far into the ABYSS.

713
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: One KKK themed episode, Presumably A penny in nineteen ninety

714
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 1: four gave the Jerry Springer Show its longtime head of security,

715
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 1: Steve Wilkos, Chicago cop and former marine. He later told

716
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: Media Week the pay was good, and I figured it

717
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: was just a one time gig. But I ended up

718
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: doing another show and another, and before I knew it,

719
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 1: I was hired as the full time director of security.

720
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: So I left my career as a cop to give

721
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: this a shot, and what goes would eventually sub in

722
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: for Jerry while he was on Dancing with the Stars

723
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: and even anchor his.

724
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 2: Own eponymous show in two thousand and seven.

725
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: Imagine it disappointed you would be if you made it

726
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 1: all the way to get on Jerry Springer's show and

727
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: Jerry's not there and you got Steve as the guy

728
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 1: behind the mic.

729
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 2: I'd be bummed. Yeah, yeah, I'd feel cheated, but you know,

730
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 2: people just really wanted to be to be on. Speaking

731
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: of security, quite a number of now prominent professional sports

732
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: figures have appeared on Springer's show as security hockey vets

733
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: like Joe Krvo and Adam Burrish to e C welterweight

734
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 2: champion Shony Carter and two separate UFC heavyweight champs, Andre

735
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: Rolovsky and Boss Rutin. Boss ruton Is has a hilarious

736
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 2: bar fighting Tips instructional DVD where he talks in his

737
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 2: like Dutch inflected English about like you always want to

738
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 2: if you're talking to someone you think you're gonna get

739
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: in a fight in you want to hold your hand

740
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: up to your chin and sort of nod at them

741
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 2: thoughtfully so then you can be in position to deliver

742
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 2: headbut out of nothing. As he says, he's like demonstrating

743
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 2: like punching combos, and he's like, dang, get it, dang,

744
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: get it, dang.

745
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: I'm sort of surprised if you have your hand up

746
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: by jin you're already ready just to deliver a punch.

747
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 2: Though, well he has he has another thing. There's a

748
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 2: great setup for his like, sir, you're telling me this

749
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 2: about my wife. I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to

750
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 2: break your leg. It's great. I encourage everyone to look

751
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 2: it up to go like Boss Rutin's, like street fighting

752
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 2: or something. In nineteen ninety five, Springer spoke to Annabel Chong,

753
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: twenty two year old porn actress who took part in

754
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: the World's Biggest Gang Bang recording two hundred and fifty

755
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 2: one sex acts for a film and world record of

756
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 2: the same name. And then this became a running bit

757
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 2: on the show. They just kept having different porn actresses

758
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 2: on there who were either going to or had just

759
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: break this record. Chong spoke of the experience as an

760
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,959
Speaker 2: empowering reversal gender norms, eventually just equipping to Jerry why

761
00:41:53,000 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 2: not because it was there now a programmer. Though Annabout

762
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 2: Chung's record was broken by Jasmine Saint Clair, who also

763
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 2: went on to Springer to discuss it. I believe her

764
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: number was three hundred. Oh my god, now I'm gonna,

765
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 2: I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop you. It's it's not all

766
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 2: different guys. No I know or I don't know, but

767
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 2: I assume it's multiple sex x with a lower than

768
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: number lower than three hundred guys. Okay, my question, I mean,

769
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 2: how long did that take? Twenty four hours? That's the

770
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 2: conditions of the record.

771
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't recall that being outlined and.

772
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 2: And get it and you're in the mail of the

773
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 2: sent you they didn't write that out for you in

774
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 2: uh more innocuous. There was the nineteen ninety six appearance

775
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 2: of Zach the seventy pound baby Strenger. He was diagnosed

776
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,879
Speaker 2: with something called Simpson Galabi Bemel syndrome, which causes overgrowth,

777
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: and his dad, who was on the show with him

778
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: talking about having to buy adult diapers for his son,

779
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 2: said wouldn't change him for the world. And then Straker

780
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 2: would return to the show as an adult, saying that

781
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,720
Speaker 2: he was happy and now working as a competitive gamer.

782
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: Was he still like huge? You know? I don't know. Oh,

783
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 2: and I'm looking at okay.

784
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: On LADBible dot Com, seventy Pounds Baby reunited with Jerry

785
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: Springer twenty years later. Let's take a look. He's a

786
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: large man. I wouldn't I wouldn't have looking at him.

787
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have guessed that he was seventy pounds as

788
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: a baby.

789
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, probably evens out. You know, that would be

790
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: my that would be my bet less Whimsically, the show

791
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 2: explored the plight of Earl Z in nineteen eighty seven,

792
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: who cut off his own genitals with garden shears because

793
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 2: he was being stalked by man he knew I have

794
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 2: one step ahead of you. I found the ap article

795
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 2: from May eighth of nineteen ninety seven. He initially claimed

796
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 2: that someone else did it, someone broke into his house

797
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 2: and cut his dick off with garden shears. Would you

798
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 2: hate that? Well, there's a truly spectacular quote in this

799
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 2: AP article. Fulton District County Attorney Polly hoy said he

800
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,280
Speaker 2: would only be charged with falsely reporting an incident, adding

801
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 2: it's not against the law to remove your own penis.

802
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 2: Spring Equipped wouldn't have just been easier to change your

803
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 2: phone number.

804
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 1: I mean, stuff like this makes me think that Jerry

805
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: Springer's show is scripted in the same way that like

806
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: Hollywood Square is a scripted all like the quips and one

807
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: minors that the celebrities get are like written well in

808
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: advanced by writers and they have on an index card.

809
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,240
Speaker 2: It just feels very like, I don't know either. Prep

810
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 2: time for this was shockingly low. I mean they were

811
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 2: getting especially for getting five thousand calls a week at

812
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 2: their peak from potential guests. Producer Richard Dominic had a

813
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 2: production staff. Their job is to find the angriest callers.

814
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 2: Each guest is briefed on what the topic is going

815
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 2: to be, and then they're given a list of basically

816
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 2: ten to twenty possible outcomes of what the situation could be, Like,

817
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 2: we're gonna put you in this situation with your horse,

818
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 2: and here's what could maybe happen with your horse. I

819
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,479
Speaker 2: want you to be prepared for this. But that didn't

820
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 2: always pan out.

821
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I've read that viewers would call in this

822
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: number at the end of the show and the producers

823
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: would listen, and if the story sounded real or at

824
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: least very juicy, they would fly these people out the

825
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 1: same day to the studio and put them up at

826
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: a fancy hotel. And they did it that quickly because

827
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: they went to ensure that these people didn't have a

828
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: chance to think things through or change their mind before

829
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: shaping the episode the next day.

830
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that tracks the year nineteen ninety eight eight

831
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: ninety eight. All of these section headers were formatted in

832
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: the Jerry Chant Rhythm the year nineteen ninety eight is

833
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 2: an important moment in Springer history. After initially being told

834
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 2: by Multimedia Entertainment to tone down what was happening, the

835
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 2: show was then bought by Universal, which pushed Springer, Dominic

836
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 2: and the staff to do what they wanted, and things

837
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 2: really got crazy. There was the now banned nineteen ninety

838
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 2: eight episode I Married a Horse, in which Springer interviewed

839
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: three people in what they called interspecies relationships, including a

840
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: Missouri man named Mark, who claimed he'd been on a

841
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 2: forty year crusade to be accepted for his love of

842
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 2: a pony named Pixel. The real kicker to this is that,

843
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 2: over the course of his interview, he reveals that he's

844
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 2: slowly dying from hepatitis that he had contracted from the

845
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 2: love that dares not speak its name. And this is

846
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 2: this episode. Didn't we already do a bit on Niro?

847
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 2: Oh we sure? No, No, that's uh Catherine the Great

848
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,760
Speaker 2: you're thinking of yes near and you're at a horse

849
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 2: thing too? Right? Oh? Did he he nominated his horse

850
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 2: for Roman Council? I think, But that was that was

851
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 2: a mentorship situation that wasn't sexual. Well, He just wanted

852
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 2: the horse to succeed. I really believed in that horse. Yeah. Uh,

853
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 2: that episode was banned in a bunch of markets. You

854
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 2: could get it on the Jerry Springer Too Hot for

855
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 2: TV compilation, which itself was a bestseller. Yeah, you have

856
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,439
Speaker 2: a you have a favorite one here though? Who you add?

857
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 2: You added add a lot idea on this idea? You're excited.

858
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: He talked to me about atypical sexual relationships, and I

859
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: got stuff to say.

860
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 2: What can I say?

861
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: Uh, let's not forget about Erica Eifel, who is an

862
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: American competitive archer who married the Eiffel Tower and commitment

863
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: ceremony in two thousand and seven.

864
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: Have you heard about that? You heard about this? I

865
00:47:54,680 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: can't do it like this, have you no? No? Eric

866
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 2: Eifel became the founder of os Internationale, an organization for

867
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 2: those who developed significant relationships with inanimate objects. This was

868
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,919
Speaker 2: not the first time she developed a non platonic relationship

869
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 2: with an inanimate object. She claimed that her relationship with

870
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 2: her competition bo whom she named Lance, helped her become

871
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 2: a world class archer, and she lost all of her

872
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 2: sponsorships when she admitted this.

873
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: She's quoted US saying, quote, I feel in innate connection

874
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: to objects. It comes perfectly normal to us to connect

875
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: on various levels emotional, spiritual, and also physical. For some,

876
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: this inspired a two thousand and eight documentary called Married

877
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: to the Eiffel Tower, and in a twenty fifteen interview

878
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: with Vice Erica Eifel had.

879
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 2: This to say, of course it was revise.

880
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: I know, I understand that people are going to get

881
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: visuals in their head and they're going to have questions

882
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: about sex. When you see a building in a person,

883
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 1: you have questions, just like when you see a very

884
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: tall person and a very short person together, you wonder

885
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 1: how the mechanics work, But you wouldn't go up to

886
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: those people and ask how do you do it when

887
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: you're so tall and she's so short. The fact that

888
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: people ask us, meaning me and the Eiffel Tower, those

889
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: questions just shows how little they respect us. And in

890
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: one scene in this documentary, which is on YouTube and

891
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 1: is fascinating, Erica is seen straddling one of the iron

892
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: girders of the tower with a look of what has

893
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: been described in print as euphoria on her face. The

894
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: scene then cuts to a shot of Erica pulling her

895
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: stalking back on insinuating that she has just consummated her

896
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 1: relationship with a tower.

897
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: Ah.

898
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: This did not sit well with French authorities, who she

899
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: claimed wanted nothing to do with me. It was a

900
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 1: classic case of starcross lovers and she felt torn away

901
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: from her beloved Eiffel Tower.

902
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 2: She said, I don't even know how to articulate a

903
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 2: heartbreak like that. It just wrecked me. It was the

904
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 2: final blow and I just had to withdraw. So she

905
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 2: retreated into the arms of another lover, although in this

906
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 2: case the arms were bricks and the lover was the

907
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 2: Berlin Wall. I was gonna say, who does she rebound with?

908
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: She rebounded with the Berlin Wall.

909
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 2: Her quote device the Berlin Wall picked me up off

910
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: my feet.

911
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 1: It was an object that was hated for being who

912
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 1: he is in the nineteen eighties. I felt empathy for him.

913
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: He can't help where he was built. They focused their

914
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: hatred on the wall rather than the politics behind it.

915
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: I felt like I was suffering in the same way.

916
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: I went through a lot of rejection when I was

917
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: younger because of my orientation. She enjoyed question mark was

918
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:51,720
Speaker 1: one enjoy I guess. She seemed to enjoy a twenty

919
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 1: year relationship with the Berlin Wall, which inspired a musical

920
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: theater production called Erica's Wall. Not the last time We'll

921
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: talk about an unwork the Dox musical theater production.

922
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 2: In this episode, she has also fallen in love with

923
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 2: fighter jets elements of fencing. I mean, you get the

924
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 2: fighter jets thing. I mean, yeah, I guess.

925
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: And as of twenty fifteen, she was in a relationship

926
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 1: with a crane, the crane that she uses to do

927
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: her job in construction.

928
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 2: There's come on, there's there's ajar, there's har regulations about that.

929
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 2: You got to report closer.

930
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and what is a truly tremendous pool. Quote

931
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: from the Vice story from twenty fifteen, Erica Eifel says,

932
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: people think I can just point out an object and

933
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: decide to love it. They think I can't develop relationships

934
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 1: with people. So I choose objects so I can have control.

935
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: But I have no control over my relationship to the

936
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 1: Eiffel Tower. If this was all about control, I'd love

937
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 1: my toaster, you know. In twenty ten, a clinical sexologist

938
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: named doctor Amy Marsh wrote in the Electronic Journal of

939
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 1: Human Sexuality that while it's often assumed that OS, or

940
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: object sexual I think it's what it's called, is a

941
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: pathology or related to a history of sexual trauma. Doctor

942
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 1: Marsh says there is in fact no data to support

943
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 1: such a claim, and that OS appears to be a genuine,

944
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: though rare, sexual orientation and pervice. Playwright Chloe Mascheter interviewed

945
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 1: eight objectim sexuals is how they identify themselves to write

946
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: a play called object Love, and she interviewed people who'd

947
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: fallen in love with cars, bridges, and my personal favorite,

948
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 1: even the folding armrest of a desk chair. She said,

949
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 1: there's an english woman who's in a relationship with the

950
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: statue of Liberty who also has a human boyfriend, but

951
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: he seems very supportive. I don't recall if any of

952
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: these people ever appeared on Jerry Springer.

953
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 2: But I would not be surprised. I'm really shocked that

954
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 2: you'd never heard of this of object sexuality. No, No,

955
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 2: it's the scale of it that really gets to me.

956
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 2: What's it? How could you do it? No?

957
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 1: Literally, how could you do it? The marquets of it?

958
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 2: Her mind poggling, Well, just like what what like? You know,

959
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:10,280
Speaker 2: obviously we've talked about uh, queen drummer Roger Taylor wanting

960
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 2: to his car. I love my car. Yeah so, but

961
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,919
Speaker 2: would the car be too small for the Eiffel lover?

962
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 2: Good questions? Good question? Ah, is that then sizest of her?

963
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 2: If she's not attracted to cars but instead goes for trains,

964
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 2: would we call her a size queen? I just don't know.

965
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 2: Is a car a short king in this case? Possibly?

966
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:43,240
Speaker 2: I got I What were we talking about again, Cherry Springer?

967
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah right, okay, Well it was hard to argue

968
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: with results, but someone were the results. The results were

969
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,320
Speaker 2: that by nineteen ninety eight, about six point seven million

970
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 2: viewers were watching The Jerry Springer Show every day, with

971
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 2: The Washington Post dubbing Springer the King of the trash Heap.

972
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 2: By nineteen ninety nine, Springer had become the first daytime

973
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 2: TV talk show to beat Oprah in the ratings in

974
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:17,720
Speaker 2: a decade. He toppled a decade long run by Oprah,

975
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 2: but despite that, advertisers were still wary of the show.

976
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 2: This is really interesting statistic. The New York Times reported

977
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 2: that during the time that The Jerry Springer Show was

978
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 2: beating Oprah Winfrey in that number one spot, the cost

979
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 2: of a thirty second advertisement during Springer was less than

980
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 2: a third of the cost of a thirty second spot

981
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 2: during Oprah, so that is just a bargain. And Oprah

982
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 2: admitted in a nineteen ninety nine interview with The Sunday

983
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 2: Times of London that what she was seeing from the

984
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 2: quote vulgarity circus a Springer's show made her consider leaving

985
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 2: her own program altogether. That's power, yeah, to make Oprah

986
00:54:56,200 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 2: question her life choices. Jerry Springer responded in The New

987
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 2: York Post Oprah had The Sunday Times of London. Cherry

988
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,439
Speaker 2: Springer had The New York Post saying that he loved

989
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 2: Oprah Winfrey and that his mom didn't like his own

990
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 2: show either, and he didn't blame either one of them.

991
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: And as producer Richard Dominic said to ABC at one point,

992
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: if you're looking to save the whales, call Oprah.

993
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 2: If you're sleeping with a whale, call us. Here it is.

994
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right

995
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: back with more. Too much information in just a moment.

996
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 2: The authorities quickly took notice of this, and Springer became

997
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 2: an easy explanation figurehead scapegoat for all of society's ills

998
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 2: re television. Bob Iger, then chairman of ABC, dubbed it

999
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 2: an embarrassment to the television industry, and then US Senator

1000
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 2: Joe Lieberman, alongside Education Secretary William Bennett, implored stations to

1001
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 2: stop airing The Jerry Springer Show in a speech at

1002
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 2: the National Association of Broadcasters convention in nineteen ninety eight.

1003
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 2: The brawls that the show frequently devolved into became a

1004
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 2: problem as well. Pressured by Chicago religious groups, the chairman

1005
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 2: and chief executive of Springer's parent company told the La

1006
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 2: Times in May of nineteen ninety eight, we are getting

1007
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 2: out of the fighting business.

1008
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,399
Speaker 1: The show will not be a boxing match. I also

1009
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: love the quote from another studio executive. We don't want

1010
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:30,760
Speaker 1: to take away.

1011
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 2: From the show.

1012
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 1: We just think that Jerry will be able to do

1013
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,919
Speaker 1: it in a different way. It will still be confrontational,

1014
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: It'll still be unpredictable. You will sense the conflict. You

1015
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: will still see yelling and screaming, but we're not going

1016
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: to show anyone getting hit.

1017
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 2: Cue the boo and hissing. Yeah. Ratings plummeted and they

1018
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 2: reversed course in two months. By July that year, the

1019
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 2: fights were back and the show was back in the

1020
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 2: number one slot.

1021
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: My favorite chiron ever was Violets are read, guests are

1022
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 1: black and blue. I mean, I have something to sad this.

1023
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I agree this is all deeply offensive and

1024
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: troubling and problematic and all those things. I think of

1025
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: Jerry Springer as a symptom and not a cause. You

1026
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 1: said earlier that it was used as a scapegoat for

1027
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: all of society's ills. You prefaced it by saying in

1028
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: terms of television. But I think it is more of

1029
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: a reflection of what people are. And I, despite my

1030
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 1: being the optimist on this show, I think maybe this

1031
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: gives away my inherent view of humanity. That's you know,

1032
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: what is the Hobbes?

1033
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 2: Who is it?

1034
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 1: Nasty and brutish Hobbs?

1035
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Thomas hobbson Life is nasty, brutish and shortness. Yeah.

1036
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just a it's just a question of

1037
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 2: like why is this the I don't know, I don't

1038
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 2: know why I'm offended by it. I guess it's just like,

1039
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 2: oh I am too, but I well, I guess just

1040
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 2: like it's it's at this point, you know, having grown

1041
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 2: up with both this and the Internet and like social

1042
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 2: media and like just a couple of weeks ago, Elon

1043
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 2: musk up Twitter to the point where you could see

1044
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 2: animal cruelty videos in your feed without any moderation and

1045
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 2: like you know, getting sent to like like it's all

1046
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 2: a gestalt image of like the nightmare of American life. Right,

1047
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 2: But why did this show have to put it into

1048
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 2: sixth gear? You know, like why did we just have to?

1049
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 2: It was just like it's not that like, oh well,

1050
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 2: just hold up a mirror to societies blah blah blah.

1051
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 2: It beat Oprah. It's like they clawed. They they truly

1052
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 2: you know, they saw their opening and they went for

1053
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 2: it and capitalized on it and they all got rich

1054
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 2: off of it, and like, I don't know, there's just

1055
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 2: such a gross, like atavistic It really is like the worst.

1056
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of the most American stories I think

1057
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: we've talked about on here.

1058
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 2: It's finding out what people their base level desires in

1059
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 2: giving it to them and making a ton of money

1060
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 2: off of it, regardless of any kind of accountability or

1061
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 2: responsibility or outcome. It's interesting, I mean, it's it's horrifying.

1062
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: I mean in a way it's strange that this is

1063
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 1: twenty five years ago because it does feel very current.

1064
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's what I'm saying. I mean, like you

1065
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 2: you know, this this show was like undone by reality

1066
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 2: TV and social media and YouTube and you know, four

1067
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 2: chan and like everything, like you didn't need Springer all

1068
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 2: of a sudden, but like same stuff that brought down

1069
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 2: Jackass in a lot of ways too. It's like suddenly

1070
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 2: you have stupid stuff you can watch on YouTube whenever

1071
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 2: you want. Yeah, but I mean it's just it again.

1072
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 2: I don't know why it like if like on the

1073
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 2: you know there we were on the Road to Hell

1074
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 2: and they put a brick on the gas pedal, you know,

1075
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 2: like there's your pool quote. And I think it's important

1076
00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 2: to kind of not to join the pro clutching vergame

1077
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 2: because you know, I'll get all these Republicans are well

1078
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 2: Jim Leemeran was a Democrat, right, all these but all

1079
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 2: these people were like, you know, oh, we should step in,

1080
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 2: and well it's a horrible thing to have on television.

1081
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 2: It's like, well, let the free market decide. You know,

1082
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 2: the free market did decide, but yeah, man, it's just

1083
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 2: it's just horrifying and it and it is like so

1084
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 2: much of it is just a hideous precursor to like

1085
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 2: the way I mean, like what is Twitter if not

1086
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 2: a Jerry Springer brawl, only less moderated, you know, Oh,

1087
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 2: I mean it's I can't articulate on it. I'm just

1088
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 2: so it's just so, it's like worrying a tooth. And

1089
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 2: I don't get puritanical about this kind of like I

1090
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 2: don't care about em and m I didn't you know,

1091
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 2: Marilyn Manson is a sex predator, but I didn't care

1092
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 2: about his music. I just like, I think it's the

1093
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 2: it's the two it's the two facedness of it that

1094
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 2: bothers me. It's like it's just him like putting up

1095
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 2: his hands and being like, I'm just a guy with

1096
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 2: a show and we were all the same underneath. And

1097
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, you're worth sixty million bucks, like you

1098
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 2: didn't have you never had a real job. You went

1099
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 2: into politics, You've never had a real job, Like you

1100
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 2: contributed nothing to the world, like since at least the

1101
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 2: early seventies, Like, get off your high horse. That's what

1102
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 2: it's the it's the hip hob At least this guy,

1103
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 2: Richard Dominick was like, yeah, I'd kill someone on TV.

1104
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 2: Like that's the kind of clarity that you want from

1105
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 2: the moral purity you want from someone in television. In

1106
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, Chicago City Council even convened to hearing

1107
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: about Springer's show, suggesting that guests could be arrested for

1108
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 2: the acts of violence they committed on air. Alderman ed

1109
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 2: Burke expressed concern that the off duty Chicago police officers

1110
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 2: serving in security guards with the program failed to pursue

1111
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 2: actual legal ramification for the brawls there were, allegedly those

1112
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 2: standards in place. Audiences were not allowed to yell anything

1113
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 2: that might encourage more violence. Male on female violence wasn't allowed,

1114
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 2: and Springer claimed to have always offered women the opportunity

1115
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 2: unity to press charges.

1116
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: One editorial in The New York Times in April nineteen

1117
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 1: ninety eight claimed that, on average, each episode of The

1118
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: Jerry Springer Show had about eighty five to one hundred

1119
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: and thirty bleeps and between five and twelve fights. With

1120
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: numbers like that, it's no surprise that Jerry Springer was

1121
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:20,479
Speaker 1: constantly being asked if the fights were in fact real

1122
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: or if it was staged like wrestling A BBC report

1123
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 1: from nineteen ninety eight concluded that sixteen former guests on

1124
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 1: the show say they were coached on who to hit

1125
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 1: during their appearance, and the same report quoted various publications

1126
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: as featuring the detail that the show had quote a

1127
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 1: fight quota for each program. One former guest on The

1128
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 1: Jerry Springer Show told supposedly told extra, we acted everything.

1129
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: When you have to do this, when you have to punch,

1130
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 1: when you have to push. They wanted us to wrestle

1131
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: and throw each other around. They said, we want four fights.

1132
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety eight, Rolling Stone captured a pre filming

1133
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: moment backstage between producer Melinda Chit and a guest who

1134
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 1: had just told her I will take my damn shoe

1135
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 1: off and put my sock in her mouth, to which

1136
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: Chate responded, that's what you're gonna do. Do it fast

1137
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 1: because security will try and stop you. So you know,

1138
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 1: the point is moving objects, moving objects, or we get

1139
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 1: the attention of the audience, Get up out of your chair,

1140
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 1: move around.

1141
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 2: I'm not telling you to slug anybody. You know that

1142
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 2: for a fact. I don't tell you to slug anybody.

1143
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 2: I just love that This guy was like I will

1144
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 2: put my sock in her mouth for somebody who seems

1145
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 2: to be in the heat of the moment. That's a

1146
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 2: very specific thing they want to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, true.

1147
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 2: This unnamed man then, for some reason in this Rolling

1148
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 2: Stone profile, he brings up a woman that he knew

1149
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 2: who committed suicide, and Chate interrupts him and says, Nope,

1150
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 2: you're not gonna talk about suicide. I don't like suicides

1151
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 2: on my show. We're not going to talk about that period.

1152
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 2: If you bring that up, I'll stop the taping. I'm

1153
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 2: not kidding. So lines drawn as for whether or not

1154
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 2: guests made up or otherwise fake their stories. That was

1155
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 2: a persistent rumor that dogged the show for its entire history.

1156
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 2: It was a vice contributor in twenty fifteen named Harmon

1157
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 2: Leon who tried to test the show's vetting process by

1158
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 2: claiming that he had a meth addicted boyfriend who is

1159
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 2: having too much anonymous sex on Grinder and reporting back

1160
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 2: that when he caught into the show about this, a

1161
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 2: producer asked him to spice up the story by recruiting

1162
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 2: someone to lie and pose is one of these anonymous lovers,

1163
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 2: and then on the phone the producer just started chanting Jerry, Jerry, Jerry,

1164
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 2: which is exactly exactly how I thought that would go.

1165
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 2: Do they get paid people on the show? A producers? No,

1166
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 2: the people on the show, because that adds a whole

1167
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 2: It's just it's just the travel. It's just the travel, Okay,

1168
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 2: all right. I was gonna say, if they actually paid

1169
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 2: these people, then that adds a whole other sad level

1170
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 2: of people being desperate and saying and doing whatever to

1171
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 2: get it. Okay, Yeah, well uh. There was one famous

1172
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 2: case of Springer being fooled though. There was a couple

1173
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 2: of Canadian stand up comics. Ian Sirota is one of

1174
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:58,240
Speaker 2: them who's given an interview about it, and he and

1175
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 2: three buddies responded to request from the show seeking someone

1176
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 2: who had slept with their babysitter. Canadian viewers recognized them,

1177
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 2: the whole thing was outed as a hoax, and then

1178
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 2: Springer sued them each for fifty grand to cover production

1179
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 2: costs and presumably make an example out of them. This

1180
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 2: was settled out of court for ten dollars, which they

1181
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 2: mailed to the show in change.

1182
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 1: Well, ratings are not Barry Diller, who at the time

1183
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 1: was the chief of Studios, USA, company behind Jerry Springer Show,

1184
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: kept needling Jerry about the controversies, and so word began

1185
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 1: to spread that Springer might be looking to exit his deal.

1186
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: By the time his contract was up in the year

1187
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: two thousand, budd he re up with them for oh

1188
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 1: my god, thirty million dollars. Thirty million dollars, and the

1189
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 1: hits just kept on coming. There was a food fetishist

1190
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 1: named spam Man.

1191
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 2: There was a week on spring Watch that clip, No,

1192
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 2: it's bad, I want to talk about it. No, just don't,

1193
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 2: just don't do it. It's it's it's people in a

1194
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 2: children's pool filled with food and the food is on them.

1195
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 2: It's I don't know, Hunger is a real problem in

1196
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 2: this country. Yeah, yes, yes.

1197
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 1: There was a week of Springer Break where shows were

1198
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 1: taped at Jamaica's Hedonism Club, and there was also a

1199
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 1: segment called three Pigs in a Trailer, which featured three obese,

1200
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 1: shirtless men gorging themselves on junk food in as you

1201
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 1: may have guessed, a trailer. By two thousand and two,

1202
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 1: TV guys editors put the Jerry Springer Show a top

1203
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 1: of their list of the fifty worst TV shows.

1204
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 2: Of all time. Wonder Number two was I believe they

1205
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 2: also started using their that and their intros. I don't know.

1206
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 2: Check that out, check that list out? So what else

1207
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 2: we got? All right?

1208
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 1: TV Guys Fifty Word Shows of All Time? Number one

1209
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 1: Jerry Springer, Number two.

1210
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 2: My Mother the car.

1211
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:51,960
Speaker 1: That makes a certain amount of sense. That's the Yeah,

1212
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 1: it's a mid sixties show. The premise features a man

1213
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 1: whose deceased mother is reincarnated as an antique car who

1214
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 1: communicates with them through the car radio.

1215
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 2: Weird gross James L. Brooks wrote it, I think I

1216
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 2: did know that. What's number three XFL Yeah?

1217
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 1: That was just more like people just didn't like it.

1218
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 1: There's the Brady Bunch Variety Hour. No I want number five,

1219
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 1: Hogan's Heroes. People love Hogan's heroes. It's no worse Gilligan's

1220
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 1: Island Well.

1221
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 2: Heroes, may it not? And may did na see a

1222
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 2: lovable goon? Uh? Yeah? Good? Good point? Anything else any

1223
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 2: other interesting takeaways from that?

1224
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:40,400
Speaker 1: The Chevy Chase Show, Baywatch number twenty one. Who wants

1225
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 1: to Marry a Multimillionaire?

1226
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 2: Was that the fake one? Or that was Joe Millionaire? Yeah?

1227
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 2: It was Joe Millionaire.

1228
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 1: Homeboys in outer space. I am not familiar. Right.

1229
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 2: We're ending this and now onto a lighter part of

1230
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 2: the program Death. No, this is sad. Aside for all

1231
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 2: the tut and garden variety industry mudslinging, there were actual

1232
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 2: landmark cases of serial crimes committed in the daytime TV

1233
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 2: talk show sphere that had ramifications for the entire industry.

1234
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 2: The first one is actually not from Springer. It's from

1235
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:17,679
Speaker 2: an episode of The Jenny Jones Show. Years prior March sixth,

1236
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,879
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five, Jenny Jones taped an episode called Revealing

1237
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:27,440
Speaker 2: Same Secret, Same Sex, Secret Crush Whatever, on which Scott Ahmanduray,

1238
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 2: a gay man, confessed to an associate, Jonathan Schmitz, that

1239
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:32,600
Speaker 2: he had a crush on him. Schmids laughed about this

1240
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 2: situation during the taping, but three days later he shot

1241
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 2: and killed Ahmenduri. He's confessed to the killing and was

1242
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 2: found guilty of second gree murder and in nineteen ninety nine,

1243
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 2: the Amanduri family sued The Jenny Jones Show, the production company,

1244
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 2: and Warner Brothers for the show's tactics. A jury awarded

1245
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:52,879
Speaker 2: them twenty nine point three million dollars in a settlement.

1246
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 2: Remember that Jordan.

1247
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 1: Jerry found himself in similar waters in the year two thousand,

1248
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,560
Speaker 1: when a married couple, Ralph and Eleanor Pannett, appeared on

1249
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: an episode of a show called Secret Mistresses confronted with

1250
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: mister Panits's ex wife, Nancy Campbell Panets, in which they

1251
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 1: complained about Missus Campbell Panits's behavior and accused her of

1252
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 1: stalking them. Hours after the show was broadcast, Nancy was

1253
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 1: found dead in a home that the three were fighting over,

1254
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 1: and Florida police soon confirmed that they were treating the

1255
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 1: death as a homicide. In August two thousand, Jerry Springer

1256
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 1: appeared on CNN's Larry King Live to discuss the incident,

1257
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: claiming that it quote had nothing to do with my show,

1258
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 1: and eventually, in May two thousand and two, Panets was

1259
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: convicted of the murder and sentenced to life in prison.

1260
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:40,519
Speaker 1: Shortly after, Nancy's family filed lawsuit against the Jerry Springer Show,

1261
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 1: which was dropped at the top of two thousand and

1262
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 1: three because if I was that a few months prior.

1263
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: A Michigan appeals court throughout the jury awarded twenty nine

1264
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 1: point three million in the Jenny Jones case, saying the

1265
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 1: program had no legal duty to protect the guest who

1266
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:58,000
Speaker 1: had appeared on the show.

1267
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 2: That's ghastly because there's no way that unless that dude

1268
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 2: confessed to his coworker, he wouldn't have gotten murdered. And

1269
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 2: there's he might not have done it had he not

1270
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 2: been on the show. You know, like, I what, oh god,

1271
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 2: what do you think about this? You're a lawyer, it's

1272
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 2: pretty horrendous. Yeah.

1273
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I come on more than I come across

1274
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 1: on this episode as the good cop. In terms of

1275
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 1: Jerry Springer. I'm not defending any of this. I mean

1276
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:34,000
Speaker 1: it's a funny role reversal for the two of us.

1277
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 1: I actually have a lower opinion of humanity than I

1278
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 1: think you do, and you get all up in arms

1279
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 1: about it, and I'm just like, yeah, what do you

1280
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 1: expect people?

1281
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 2: I guess that's yeah, which is which is unusual. This

1282
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 2: wouldn't be the only suit that Springer was brought against

1283
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:49,599
Speaker 2: him over the show. In twenty nineteen, Springer was sued

1284
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 2: by the family of Blake Alvi, who'd appeared in a

1285
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 2: May twenty eighteen episode in which his fiancee told him

1286
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 2: she had been unfaithful. That she was leaving him, and

1287
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 2: that she had sold the engagement ring he had given her.

1288
01:11:01,439 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 2: A few weeks later in June, I'll be shot himself.

1289
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:06,320
Speaker 2: I wasn't able to find out how this case ended.

1290
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:10,760
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know if it's ongoing, but uh, yeah,

1291
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:15,639
Speaker 2: that seems like something that he was responsible for pretty directly. Yeah.

1292
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,680
Speaker 2: In nineteen nine of this thousand year old stare, you're

1293
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 2: just like Yeah. In nineteen ninety nine, a fifteen year

1294
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:25,679
Speaker 2: old boy in Hollywood, Florida, was along with his brother,

1295
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 2: convicted of sexually abusing their eight year old half sister,

1296
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 2: allegedly telling police he watched a Springer episode about incest.

1297
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 2: This presumably was a nineteen ninety eight segment called I'm

1298
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 2: Pregnant by My Brother, focusing on a seventeen year old

1299
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:40,759
Speaker 2: named Heather, who said she was pregnant by her sixteen

1300
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 2: year old younger brother and also in love with her

1301
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 2: elder brother.

1302
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 1: How I forgot how truly grotesque this show was. I

1303
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:51,759
Speaker 1: take that a lot of the things I said earlier.

1304
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:56,080
Speaker 2: I was waiting to see how you'd respond once we

1305
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 2: got into the murder and sexual abuse portion. That was

1306
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:02,559
Speaker 2: the only underage sex case spun from the show. Twenty

1307
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:04,960
Speaker 2: four year old wife and mother, don Marie Eves of Geneva,

1308
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 2: New York, appeared on the show in nineteenninety eight to

1309
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:09,840
Speaker 2: confess that she had an affair with a sixteen year

1310
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:13,240
Speaker 2: old boy, for which she was charged and arrested.

1311
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 1: Do we think that the show was more less or

1312
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 1: equal in harm to Jackass in terms of just like

1313
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 1: the destruction that it left in its thought?

1314
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:31,720
Speaker 2: Oh, man, I don't know. That's that's that's a tough one,

1315
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 2: I think in psychic damage. Jerry did Moore. But man, wow,

1316
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 2: good good question, good thought. Experiment well with his show

1317
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:46,839
Speaker 2: at the top of the televised heap, Springer was attaining

1318
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 2: a new level of celebrity himself. In nineteen ninety seven,

1319
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 2: he began a temporary job on Chicago's WMAQ as a

1320
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 2: news commentator, and the anchor, Carol Marin, who had worked

1321
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 2: at the station for nineteen years, refused to share airtime

1322
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 2: with Springer and quit the show, of which he quipped,

1323
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:06,760
Speaker 2: I am sorry she found it necessary this week to

1324
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:10,600
Speaker 2: use me as the stepping stone to martyrdom. In solidarity

1325
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:13,720
Speaker 2: with Maren's decision, co anchor Ron Meger's departed A few

1326
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:17,599
Speaker 2: weeks later, dozens of people from religious and women's organization

1327
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:21,080
Speaker 2: protested the station's nighttime addition as well, and the heat

1328
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:23,000
Speaker 2: ended up being too much for the station, and they

1329
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 2: dropped the Jerry Springer Show entirely in May of nineteenninety eight,

1330
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 2: and then a Fox affiliate picked it up, and it

1331
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 2: was so expensive for them that to cover the cost

1332
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 2: of acquiring it, they had to broadcast it not once

1333
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 2: but twice a day.

1334
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:41,560
Speaker 1: And Jerry himself started popping up in TV cameos in

1335
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six on shows as wide ranging as Roseanne

1336
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:48,640
Speaker 1: and The X Files. He nauched the Simpson's appearance and

1337
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 1: similarly picked up roles on The Wayman's Brothers, Space Goes

1338
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:55,320
Speaker 1: Coast to Coast, Sabrina The Teenage Witch, and of course,

1339
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:58,479
Speaker 1: he played himself in Austin Powers, The Spy Who Shagged Me.

1340
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:01,639
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety nine, Doctor Evil and his estrange son

1341
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 1: Scott appear on Springer's show My Dad Is Evil at

1342
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:06,799
Speaker 1: Wants to take Over the World.

1343
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 2: I believe was the Chiron Yep, that was a good bit.

1344
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:13,760
Speaker 2: I remembered that. Yeah. In nineteen ninety eight, Springer reached

1345
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 2: probably the height of his own ego, at least when

1346
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 2: he partnered with producer Gary W. Goldstein for Ringmaster, a

1347
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 2: barely veiled starring vehicle in which Springer plays Jerry fairly

1348
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:25,519
Speaker 2: because he did not have the rights to his own name.

1349
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:30,360
Speaker 2: Goldstein had actually been a fairly big named producer at

1350
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:32,639
Speaker 2: the time. He was attached to nineteen ninety's Pretty Woman

1351
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:36,160
Speaker 2: and nineteen ninety twos under Siege. This movie was written

1352
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:38,599
Speaker 2: by a guy named John Bernstein, who has literally only

1353
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:41,880
Speaker 2: other two writing credits on IMDb. It was directed by

1354
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:44,640
Speaker 2: Neil Abramson, who did some music videos before this and

1355
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 2: doesn't seem to have done much else. And none of

1356
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:49,839
Speaker 2: this is a surprise, as the film was critically savaged

1357
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,720
Speaker 2: and didn't even make back half of its budget, But

1358
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 2: it did co star Jamie Presley in an early role,

1359
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 2: and I won Jerry Springer a Razzi for worst news Star.

1360
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:00,120
Speaker 2: I bet you he went to pick it up. You

1361
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 2: think probably nineteen ninety eight was a bad year for

1362
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 2: Jerry personally as well. Let me tell you that I

1363
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:11,080
Speaker 2: went down a bizarre rabbit hole researching this the world

1364
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:18,320
Speaker 2: of porn journalism. I found a guy purporting to be

1365
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:21,760
Speaker 2: one of the more famous porn journalists who interviewed this

1366
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:26,519
Speaker 2: porn star Kendra Jade and her stepmom, Kelly Well. She

1367
01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:31,719
Speaker 2: interviewed Kelly Kelly Jade. These two women, along with another

1368
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 2: porn producer and the UK tabloid News of the World,

1369
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:39,960
Speaker 2: conspired to tape Springer in a hotel room with Jade

1370
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:42,679
Speaker 2: using a hidden camera in the closet.

1371
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 1: They had appeared on the show before.

1372
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:48,400
Speaker 2: I think it was there. This tryst was around the

1373
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:49,800
Speaker 2: third time that they were going to be on the

1374
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:53,240
Speaker 2: show before. In this interview, I found Kelly says that

1375
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:56,519
Speaker 2: on the previous appearance in the show, Kelly's actual mom

1376
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 2: knocked one of her teeth out, and this was actually

1377
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:02,720
Speaker 2: big scandal that was kind of scrubbed because it was

1378
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:05,240
Speaker 2: largely the province of the tabloids at the time, like

1379
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:07,840
Speaker 2: the New York Daily News reported on it. Springer threatened

1380
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:12,240
Speaker 2: to sue them. He retained Marty Singer, who's one of

1381
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:15,760
Speaker 2: the top la like muckraking lawyers, to deal with it,

1382
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:19,040
Speaker 2: and he ultimately settled with this woman and her co

1383
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 2: conspirators for three hundred and fifty thousand dollars, which she

1384
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:25,519
Speaker 2: would then in this interview alleged that the actually in

1385
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:27,720
Speaker 2: a few interviews, alleged that this guy who helped her

1386
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:30,400
Speaker 2: set it up stole from her, so she didn't even

1387
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 2: get anything from it. It was he was supposed to be.

1388
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 2: They supposedly said that they caught it having sex. Her

1389
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:41,680
Speaker 2: stepmom said in this interview that that didn't happen. She

1390
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 2: only gave him a blowjob, So there's that. Springer blamed

1391
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:48,599
Speaker 2: the situation on the viagra that he had been taking,

1392
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 2: saying it turned him into a sex addict, and ironically

1393
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:54,560
Speaker 2: he had been taking it to help patch up his

1394
01:16:54,680 --> 01:17:01,040
Speaker 2: relationship with his wife, which well dry your own conclusions.

1395
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:05,120
Speaker 1: Pressure on Springer continued to mount, and on two thousand

1396
01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:07,799
Speaker 1: and one, efforts by groups like the Parents' Television Council

1397
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 1: and the American Family Association forced some advertisers to decrease

1398
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:15,080
Speaker 1: or stop their sponsorship altogether of his show, while in

1399
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:19,240
Speaker 1: My Beloved UK, the Independent Television Commission banned Jerry Springer

1400
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 1: and other tabloid talk shows from being broadcast during daytime

1401
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 1: hours on school holidays.

1402
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 2: In response to numerous parental complaints.

1403
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:28,519
Speaker 1: One bright spot was that in two thousand and three,

1404
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:31,519
Speaker 1: Jerry Springer the Opera hit the stage Across the Pond,

1405
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 1: sat in Hell and containing extensive profanity, along with at

1406
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 1: one point a troop of tap dancing klu Klux Klan members,

1407
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 1: and ran for six hundred and nine performances in London

1408
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 1: from April two thousand and three to February two thousand

1409
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 1: and five, before touring the UK in two thousand and

1410
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:52,480
Speaker 1: six and going on to win four Laurence Olivier Awards,

1411
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 1: including Best New Musical.

1412
01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:59,720
Speaker 2: The opera, which included an estimated eight thousand obscenities, made

1413
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:02,839
Speaker 2: its North American debut at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas,

1414
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 2: while it's New York City debut at Carnegie Hall.

1415
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:11,360
Speaker 1: Harvey Kaitel starred as Jerry.

1416
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 2: At Carnegie Hall Practice Practice Practice.

1417
01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:20,479
Speaker 1: Jerry himself made it to the West End in two

1418
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:23,160
Speaker 1: thousand and nine, singing and acting in the Cambridge Theater

1419
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:26,599
Speaker 1: production of the musical Chicago in the Billy Flynn role

1420
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:29,920
Speaker 1: played by Richard gear in the movie adaptation, I actually

1421
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:33,920
Speaker 1: saw that. I was studying abroad at the time, Yes,

1422
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:35,559
Speaker 1: in a screenwriting program, and we.

1423
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:37,439
Speaker 2: Went how did you make me get? How did you

1424
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:39,680
Speaker 2: make me get? Like eleven pages in I sort of

1425
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:43,960
Speaker 2: forgot that you saw him live on stage singing tap dance.

1426
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:47,439
Speaker 2: I kind of forgot about it till right now, I

1427
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:48,599
Speaker 2: sot I blocked it out.

1428
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:53,200
Speaker 1: I wonder I felt compelled to like take the good

1429
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 1: cop roll. Yeah, you were like, well, you know, he

1430
01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:59,839
Speaker 1: has a lovely voice. The opera was I don't understand

1431
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:02,719
Speaker 1: how this is possible. The opera was broadcast on BBC

1432
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:06,280
Speaker 1: two in January two thousand and five and sort of

1433
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 1: predictably garnered fifty five thousand complaints and a number of

1434
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:13,400
Speaker 1: protests that various BBC offices. How could they broadcast the

1435
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 1: show that had literally eight thousand obscenities in it. I

1436
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:19,280
Speaker 1: know it's England and like their obscenity laws are a

1437
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 1: little different. But Jesus Springer himself incidentally saw the production

1438
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 1: in Edinburgh in two thousand and two and dubbed it

1439
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:29,599
Speaker 1: quote wonderful, telling the Guardian that he quote didn't object

1440
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: to anything in it and only wished he'd thought of

1441
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 1: it first. That really tells you all you need to

1442
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:41,040
Speaker 1: know about Jeff Springer. Take us all, Figel and Ding.

1443
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:45,680
Speaker 2: The glory days of Jerry Springer's show were coming to

1444
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:49,200
Speaker 2: a close. The Internet continued its expansion, and reality TV

1445
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 2: became the dominant format for on screen garbage delivery to idiots. Sorry,

1446
01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:57,160
Speaker 2: I watched her Inderpump Rules. I don't really have a

1447
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 2: stand on here. Why it's it's the only one that

1448
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:03,840
Speaker 2: got its hooks in me. Really, yeah, I don't know.

1449
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 2: I was watching Lowe was watching a bunch of it

1450
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:08,680
Speaker 2: during the early stage of the pandemic, and I just

1451
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:11,880
Speaker 2: gradually like a you know, your first your first taste

1452
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:15,960
Speaker 2: is free, and then I just gradually started coming back.

1453
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:20,439
Speaker 2: I mean explained, I'm not proud of it. No, No,

1454
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:25,599
Speaker 2: I'm curious because you're somebody who's taste is They're just yeah,

1455
01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:29,200
Speaker 2: they're just it's the It's the only one I've I've

1456
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:33,599
Speaker 2: found that I can stomach, just because they're so transcendently awful.

1457
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:40,720
Speaker 2: It's it's cut. All that the show celebrated is three

1458
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 2: thousandth episode in two thousand and six, a year that

1459
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 2: they apparently also debuted a character named the Reverend Schnoor

1460
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 2: No idea, what you're talking about. I didn't either. I

1461
01:20:51,439 --> 01:20:53,160
Speaker 2: just found it and I had to put it in here.

1462
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:57,559
Speaker 2: This was a drunken womanizer character who was created by

1463
01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:02,479
Speaker 2: the show's promotions director Brian Schnor and this guy had.

1464
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:05,360
Speaker 2: May come as no surprise to you, studied improv at

1465
01:21:05,439 --> 01:21:10,519
Speaker 2: Chicago's Second Second City that two thousand and seven, Reverend

1466
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:15,040
Speaker 2: Schnor Merchandise was out selling the show's popular security Jerry

1467
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:19,599
Speaker 2: Springer Show security t shirts on its website. Just yeah,

1468
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:24,680
Speaker 2: I mean the mythology behind this show, the Lord Dippens Yes.

1469
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:28,559
Speaker 2: Also in two thousand and seven, the real crippling blow

1470
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:31,679
Speaker 2: is that security director Willcos left Jerry Springer to host

1471
01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 2: his own syndicated talk show, also shot at the NBC

1472
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:38,479
Speaker 2: Tower in Chicago and produced by Richard Dominic. Dominic, however,

1473
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:41,280
Speaker 2: would ultimately resign not long after the show's the main

1474
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:45,040
Speaker 2: shows eighteen season began. He launched the reality series Hardcore Pawn,

1475
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 2: about a pawn shop on Detroit's semi famed eight Mile Road.

1476
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:54,320
Speaker 2: In twenty ten. I found a muckraking columnist named Robert

1477
01:21:54,360 --> 01:21:57,280
Speaker 2: Fader from the Chicago Sun Times who was reporting on

1478
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:02,080
Speaker 2: Chicago TV scuttle, but that Dominic was fired because he'd

1479
01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:05,719
Speaker 2: gotten in a physical confrontation with a guest and choked

1480
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:09,040
Speaker 2: this person. How much more of an appropriate departure from

1481
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:10,880
Speaker 2: the show that you hoped create could you get.

1482
01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:14,240
Speaker 1: In addition to his departure. Another crucial inflection point for

1483
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:16,559
Speaker 1: The Jerry Springer Show came in two thousand and nine

1484
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 1: when the taping when the show recorded its last episode

1485
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:23,840
Speaker 1: at wmaqtv's NBC Tower in Chicago, where it had been

1486
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:27,439
Speaker 1: taped since nineteen ninety two. NBC had received tax credits

1487
01:22:27,479 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 1: to move the production to Stamford, Connecticut, most famous to

1488
01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:33,400
Speaker 1: me for being the place that Jim relocates in the

1489
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:37,080
Speaker 1: office along with Mary Povich and Springer's head of security,

1490
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:41,920
Speaker 1: Steve Wilcos's New show plus NBC Sports, Residents of this

1491
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:46,479
Speaker 1: Connecticut town protested Jerry's arrival, as one might expect. Sadly,

1492
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:50,400
Speaker 1: this relocation did not forestall all the show's eventual death.

1493
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:52,559
Speaker 2: About a decade or so later.

1494
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:55,639
Speaker 1: Trades reported that production on The Jerry Springer Show ceased

1495
01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:58,920
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen after ratings had dropped to about one

1496
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:02,000
Speaker 1: point seven million viewers per episode, which is down from

1497
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:04,240
Speaker 1: what I believe something like seven million in episode.

1498
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:07,400
Speaker 2: It's crazy they contextualize that the report that I read

1499
01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:09,960
Speaker 2: where they that was what That's what Rachel Ray was

1500
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:12,479
Speaker 2: getting at the time, though, So it's like it was

1501
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:14,760
Speaker 2: just how how far he had fallen and that they

1502
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:18,680
Speaker 2: couldn't justify paying him that much anymore. But it's not

1503
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:20,840
Speaker 2: like Stamford has a leg to stand on. They're the

1504
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:25,360
Speaker 2: home of the WWE, right, That's right. Like they were

1505
01:23:25,439 --> 01:23:27,800
Speaker 2: just like, oh, that's the line we draw. You know,

1506
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:32,640
Speaker 2: we're fine with the steroid abusing you know, Nightmare Corporation.

1507
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:37,040
Speaker 2: We just don't, like, we're fine with Vince McMahon drawing

1508
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:40,160
Speaker 2: the line between Vince McMahon at Vince McMahon but not

1509
01:23:40,320 --> 01:23:45,120
Speaker 2: Jerry Springer is hilarious hypocrisy. Shame on you, Stanford and.

1510
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:47,599
Speaker 1: The final first run episode of The Jerry Springer Show

1511
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:51,599
Speaker 1: aired on July twenty sixth, twenty eighteen, though Springer spinoff

1512
01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:55,240
Speaker 1: show judge Jerry, as well as security head Steve Wilco

1513
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:59,320
Speaker 1: spinoff both continued on afterwards. I feel like maybe I

1514
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:01,479
Speaker 1: just missed it. Not a big enough deal was made

1515
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:03,800
Speaker 1: that the Jerry Spurner Show was ending. I bet it

1516
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:05,920
Speaker 1: was just a lot of like good riddance pieces.

1517
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean he had started a podcast since

1518
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen that ended last year, but he was like

1519
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:15,280
Speaker 2: he was a big podcast at the time. I mean,

1520
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:19,360
Speaker 2: he was he was diverse guy, he hosted America's Got

1521
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:21,680
Speaker 2: Talent for two seasons. He competed on Dancing with the

1522
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:23,280
Speaker 2: Stars so that he could learn how to dance for

1523
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:27,040
Speaker 2: his daughter's wedding. In his last interview ever, he said

1524
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:29,479
Speaker 2: his happiest moment on television was when she attended a

1525
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:31,920
Speaker 2: taping of Dancing with the Stars, So that's kind of nice.

1526
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:35,920
Speaker 2: And he cut a country record called Doctor Talk. It

1527
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 2: was a big Meral Haggard fan. Apparently. Spryner also hosted

1528
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:42,599
Speaker 2: a liberal leaning radio talk show and mold a two

1529
01:24:42,640 --> 01:24:45,240
Speaker 2: thousand and four run for the Ohio Senate. It's actually

1530
01:24:45,320 --> 01:24:48,120
Speaker 2: kind of sad in that American This American Life podcast

1531
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:49,920
Speaker 2: episode about him. They did a lot of interviews with

1532
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:53,719
Speaker 2: him about the time and essentially what it was. Mike Ford,

1533
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:55,679
Speaker 2: who worked on this campaign with him, told This American

1534
01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:58,439
Speaker 2: Life that it wasn't so much Jerry himself. That all

1535
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 2: the people that they pulled had a with They just

1536
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:04,800
Speaker 2: said that it was the show, Like they all liked

1537
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:06,720
Speaker 2: him in his positions, but they were just like, he

1538
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:08,280
Speaker 2: has to quit the show. The show has to stop,

1539
01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:10,760
Speaker 2: and he couldn't get out of his contract in time

1540
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 2: to mount a campaign, so he dropped out of the

1541
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:17,360
Speaker 2: race in two thousand and three, after spending like a

1542
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:20,600
Speaker 2: year canvassing and doing all the pressing, the flesh and

1543
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:23,439
Speaker 2: all that shit, and he got like CBS News in

1544
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:26,000
Speaker 2: their report they talked about him like actually choking up

1545
01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:29,519
Speaker 2: when he's saying like, essentially, I can't get out of

1546
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:31,920
Speaker 2: my show in time to do this, So clearly that

1547
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 2: aided him, which I say good.

1548
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:38,280
Speaker 1: Springer's defense of his show ranged from the pretty bog

1549
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:42,160
Speaker 1: standard it's just silly minded entertainment, to the somewhat more

1550
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:46,120
Speaker 1: serious arguments that he was exposing mainstream America to representations

1551
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:48,240
Speaker 1: of itself not often seen on the screen.

1552
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:50,840
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, it just seemed like

1553
01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:54,320
Speaker 2: Jerry liked easy money. He was worth about sixty million

1554
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:57,280
Speaker 2: dollars by the time of his death. In fact, This

1555
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:00,840
Speaker 2: American Life's Alex Bloomberg pressed Jerry once before taping, saying,

1556
01:26:01,160 --> 01:26:03,400
Speaker 2: here's a person who's at every stage of their professional

1557
01:26:03,479 --> 01:26:06,000
Speaker 2: career been imbued with a sense of trying to make

1558
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:08,880
Speaker 2: a difference, and then you get to the Cherry Springer Show,

1559
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:12,680
Speaker 2: and Springer answered, well, we certainly made a difference in television.

1560
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:15,320
Speaker 1: I'm not sure people are happy about it. I try

1561
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:17,560
Speaker 1: not to think about it too much. Life is what

1562
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:20,200
Speaker 1: it is. But I just don't spend too much time

1563
01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:20,840
Speaker 1: worrying about that.

1564
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:22,120
Speaker 2: I do my show.

1565
01:26:22,479 --> 01:26:24,680
Speaker 1: I've always said it's a stupid show. I've had a

1566
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:26,639
Speaker 1: wonderful life because of it and all that, but I've

1567
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:28,679
Speaker 1: never for a second thought that it's important.

1568
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:30,599
Speaker 2: It's trivial. It's chewing gum.

1569
01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:33,400
Speaker 1: And I recognize that once you do something that's significant

1570
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:35,200
Speaker 1: in life, all this other stuff is just a way

1571
01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:37,720
Speaker 1: to eat. And He also told the BBC at one

1572
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:40,800
Speaker 1: point that he didn't actually watch his show, which I

1573
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 1: think is very telling. Yeah, just kept cashing the checks.

1574
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:50,400
Speaker 2: As he grew older, though, he seemed to reflect more

1575
01:26:50,439 --> 01:26:52,679
Speaker 2: on the role that he'd played in shaping American culture.

1576
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:55,680
Speaker 2: He gave a widely publicized quote to a podcast in

1577
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,280
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two that had him half joking, I've ruined

1578
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:01,799
Speaker 2: the culture as an As an avowed liberal, he seemed

1579
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:06,640
Speaker 2: to detest Donald Trump, endorsed Hillary in twenty sixteen, and

1580
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:10,080
Speaker 2: took a lot of potshots at Trump was open about

1581
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:12,479
Speaker 2: the fact that the two essentially emerged from the same

1582
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:16,240
Speaker 2: section of the pop culture swamp. This is interesting, though,

1583
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:19,160
Speaker 2: because that remorse seems a little bit at odds with

1584
01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:21,800
Speaker 2: a detail from the Rolling Stone profile I mentioned earlier

1585
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:24,720
Speaker 2: FM nineteen ninety eight, in which Springer ended a pre

1586
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:28,439
Speaker 2: taping meeting with production staff by proclaiming this show is

1587
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:33,240
Speaker 2: good for America. Another revealing anecdote from that profile comes

1588
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:36,280
Speaker 2: from WMAQ anchorman Ron Magers, who is one of the

1589
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:39,599
Speaker 2: ones who quit in protest when his station brought back

1590
01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:44,519
Speaker 2: Springer on the news following his talk show. This guy

1591
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 2: told Rolling Stone Jerry had been taping the show for

1592
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:49,560
Speaker 2: only a couple of months. I passed him in the

1593
01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:52,400
Speaker 2: hall and we shook hands. He leaned forward as if

1594
01:27:52,439 --> 01:27:54,960
Speaker 2: he was sharing a great secret, and he whispered, I

1595
01:27:55,080 --> 01:27:57,720
Speaker 2: know I'm going to hell for this. I was quite

1596
01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:00,880
Speaker 2: taken aback. Apparently Jerry wasn't out of what he was doing.

1597
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:04,479
Speaker 2: Maybe he is now, I don't know. At the start

1598
01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:07,439
Speaker 2: of Jerry's twenty fifth season, he shared a message that

1599
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:10,800
Speaker 2: I would like to highlight. His takeaway from years of

1600
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:13,599
Speaker 2: doing the show was that deep down, we are all alike.

1601
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 2: We all want to be happy. We cry when we're hurt,

1602
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:20,080
Speaker 2: we're angry when we've been mistreated, and to be liked,

1603
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:23,519
Speaker 2: accepted and respected not to mention loved is the greatest

1604
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:26,639
Speaker 2: gift of all. And then he emphasized that he never

1605
01:28:26,720 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 2: thought he was better than any of the people on

1606
01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:31,439
Speaker 2: his show, and he started to choke up when he

1607
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 2: added only luckier or with fewer scruples and a lot

1608
01:28:38,439 --> 01:28:44,200
Speaker 2: fewer horses. Folks, this has been too much information. I'm

1609
01:28:44,240 --> 01:28:48,000
Speaker 2: Alex Heigel and I'm Jordan run Togg. Take care of yourselves.

1610
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:53,439
Speaker 2: Ask each other. Boom, Jerry, Jerry.

1611
01:28:58,439 --> 01:29:00,920
Speaker 1: Too Much Information was a production of iHeartRadio.

1612
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:04,439
Speaker 2: The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtalg.

1613
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:07,439
Speaker 1: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June.

1614
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:10,839
Speaker 2: The show was researched, written and hosted by Jordan Runtalg

1615
01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 2: and Alex Heigel, with original music by Seth Applebaum and

1616
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:15,000
Speaker 2: the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

1617
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:17,400
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

1618
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:20,439
Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the

1619
01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:23,760
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1620
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:24,479
Speaker 1: favorite shows.