WEBVTT - Man with the Plan 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.960 You know, you don't really expect the suspected murderer to 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:06.040 call you back and confess. I mean, that's just not 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:11.160 what happens. My name is Kevin Sullivan. I'm a senior 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.920 correspondent for the Washington Post. I've been at the Post 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:17.439 for twenty eight years, and in three I covered the 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:22.759 murders that Lawrence Horn was involved with. On March three 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:26.200 of that year, Millie Horn, her eight year old son Trevor, 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:30.880 and his nurse, Janice Saunders were murdered. Back then, Sullivan 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.839 was a general assignment reporter in the Montgomery County Maryland Bureau. 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:37.479 Montgomery County is not the kind of place where we 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.400 have a lot of triple murders. It's a sort of affluent, 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.240 relatively peaceful kind of place, so this was a big 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:47.880 deal for us. Sullivan was assigned to track down Millie's ex, Lawrence, 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:50.839 who was living out in Los Angeles. I ended up 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:53.120 finding a phone number and I called the number and 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:55.360 I heard, you know, this is Lawrence Rren. Please leave 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:59.120 me a message. And a few hours later my phone rang. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:01.920 He said, yeah, this is Laurence. Sorry, and you were 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:06.959 trying to reach me, And I said, I'm just calling 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.839 about what happened, and I wondered if you had anything 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:11.680 to say about it, and said, well, what happened? What 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.200 are you talking about? And I said, you haven't heard 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:18.120 from the Montgomery County Police and he said, no, I 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:19.960 have one message on my machine. It was from you. 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:23.119 What are you talking about? What happened? So I said, 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.640 Mr Horne, I'm sorry to be the one to tell 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:32.200 you this, but there's been a murder here and your wife, 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:38.880 Millie and your son Trevor had been killed. And there 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:41.520 was silence on the other end of the phone for 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:43.800 a couple of seconds, and then I heard him say 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:55.040 Millie Trevor and he started crying. There are lots of 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:58.480 other details about this, and i've've completely forgotten, but that 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:06.360 I will always remember. A few weeks after they spoke 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:08.720 on the phone, Sullivan flew out to l A to 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.760 see if he could interview Lawrence in person. He came 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:13.760 to the door and I said, Mr Horn, and he 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.320 said yeah, and I said, I'm Kevin Sullivan from the 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:18.680 Washington Post. We've been we've been talking on the phone. 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:21.519 And he looked at me and he said, how did 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:25.200 you find me? The most remarkable thing was that he 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:27.800 opened the door and let me in. I was fully 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.480 prepared for him to say, I really can't talk about this. 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:33.120 I have nothing to say, and close the door in 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:37.040 my face. In his article, he described Lawrence's quote dark 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:41.400 and cramped one bedroom apartment off grungy Hollywood Boulevard. Well, 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.440 I remember walking down the hallway thinking this is kind 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.440 of a creepy place. And and when he came to 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:51.640 the door, he himself was kind of a mess. He 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:56.160 was very heavy, he was wearing an old sweatsuit. He 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.240 looked kind of schlobby. He had a baseball cap on, 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:01.800 and he had the like tight little brat tail kind 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.119 of braids, you know, sticking down from the back of 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.880 the cap. But he just seemed sort of worn down 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:11.160 by life. He didn't look like the kind of high flying, 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.800 you know, motown record executive that he kind of portrayed 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:20.000 himself as. On the phone, Lawrence spent the next several 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:23.760 hours telling him his whole life story, as afternoon turned 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.720 into evening and the apartment grew dark around them, and 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.160 he was adamant about his innocence. I mean, he portrayed 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:32.880 himself as very close to Berry Gordy, you know. He 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.200 told me that he taught Stevie Wonder how to sign 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.839 his name. He was making the case to me that 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.120 somebody like him could never have done this. He was 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:45.240 a great guide, had this great career. He said something like, 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:47.640 if I had done this, how could I go on 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.280 living with with something like that on my conscience? It 0:03:50.320 --> 0:04:07.839 would mean that I'm a monster. I'm Jasmine Morris from 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:11.920 My Heart Radio and hit Home Media. This is hit Man. 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.200 I've been looking into this book, Hitman, a technical manual 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.320 for independent contractors, for years, and I've been talking to 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:31.040 Tiffany Horn for almost as long. And after talking to Tiffany, 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:33.320 I got a pretty clear picture of who her dad was. 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.080 But the thing that's kind of hard to fathom is 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.279 actually how big of a deal he was in Motown 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.359 back in the day. He was partly responsible for some 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.720 of the most important songs that are important to so 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.400 many people. So I wanted to talk to those who 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:49.560 were there while he was helping to make these things. 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.960 Lawrence Horn is the person that made everything happen for me. 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.320 That's music producer Tony bon Jovi, and I have to 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.000 ask any relation to s Jon bon Jovi is my 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.600 second cousin and I produced the records that got him 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.800 signed and made the hits for him. In the early sixties, 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.200 as a teenager in New Jersey, Tony had been teaching 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.960 himself to be a recording engineer. He thought he'd figured 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.279 out some of the tricks to the Motown sound and 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.000 he wanted to meet with someone from the label. Motown 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.240 instructed me to go to New York where Lawrence Horn was. 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.280 He said, you have a tape to play for me, 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.000 and I said, yes, I do, and I played him 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:27.920 what I had done to some of the recordings and 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.320 he was impressed. And that's when he said to me, 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.360 would you like to come to Detroit to Motown. Yeah, 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:36.000 it's like asking a ten year old he wants to 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:40.760 go to Disneyland. So at seventeen, Tony found himself rubbing 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:44.599 elbows with Motown's biggest stars, all at the direction of 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.279 Lawrence Horn. You know, here's Smoky Rominson had the Miracles 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.120 and all those hit records that I'm sitting there next 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.960 to him. I'm in high school and I'm sitting next 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.800 to him or Stevie Wonder. Lawrence made me feel comfortable. 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:58.400 You're no, don't worry when you go in there. Don't 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:02.960 feel that they're in inmidating you. You're just like them. 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:06.160 Tony worked for Motown until the early seventies and then 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:08.560 he went on to a successful music producing career of 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.320 his own, but he kept in touch with Lawrence. As 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:13.920 professional as my relationship was with him, it was very 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.279 personal as well, because he nurtured that because I was 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.360 a kid, and he would say, yeah, you learned a 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:20.880 lot out in Detroit, didn't you. I said, yeah, I did, 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:26.919 all because of you. Lawrence Thomas Horne was born in 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:31.200 Detroit on April eighteenth, n His mother owned a modeling 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:34.800 school and agency, and his father was a baker. Even 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.120 as a kid, he was good with electronics and he 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.800 attended Cast Technical High School, a magnet school in Detroit. 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:44.880 Here's Lawrence's daughter, Tiffany. I mean he was friends with 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:46.960 Diana Ross when they were in high school. You know 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.520 their legendary. It's like you look back now sometimes I 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:52.680 can't even believe he was part of that, but he was. 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:55.960 And to better understand Lawrence who he was and who 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.200 he became, we've got to first talk about how Motown 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.320 became what it is. It's part of the legend of Detroit, 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.760 A young songwriter named Barry Gordy was working his day 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:11.160 job on the assembly line of the Lincoln Mercury car 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.960 plan but he had an idea. What if he applied 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:18.480 that same production model to cultivate musicians and make hit records. Well. 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.880 In nineteen fifty nine, with eight dollars borrowed from his family, 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.080 he launched his own record label. He bought an old 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.040 house on West Grand Boulevard and a fixed a sign 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:31.720 to the front that read Hitsville, USA, a move that 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:36.040 could be read as arrogant or prophetic, maybe both. By 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.640 nineteen sixty one, Motown scored its first number one hit 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:43.440 with the marvel Atts Please, Mr Postman, I am Juanna 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:48.960 are Royster. I am from Detroit, Michigan, and at one 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:53.160 time I worked at Motown. Wanna was there at the beginning, 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:56.520 sitting at the front desk as a receptionist. The essence 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:02.760 of Monttown then and now is a out loves and family. 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.760 Whether you were family or not, it made no difference. 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:10.760 We were all family. Gordy fostered talent like Marvin Gay, 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.880 the Temptations, Mary Wells, Stevie Wonder, so many artists that 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:19.120 are considered legendary today. When I was in eighth grade, 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:24.520 I joined a group called the Primets. Eventually we auditioned 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:27.520 for Mr Barry Gordy. That's Mary Wilson, one of the 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:31.720 original Supremes. Within a few years, Barry Gordy's Motown had 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.600 become one of the most successful black owned businesses in 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.600 the US, all during a time when segregation was still 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.880 common practice and a growing civil rights movement was gaining momentum. 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.760 He didn't find us, We found him, and which continued 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.520 to go there until he finally relinquished the idea that 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:53.800 we weren't good enough and signed us. In fact, that's 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.800 how most of the artists came to Motown. They heard 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:01.480 about this place where young people, especially black people because 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.640 it was in the black neighborhood, would go then get side. 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:07.760 At two years old and just out of the Navy, 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:11.240 Lawrence Horn had served on board an aircraft carrier where 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:13.840 he hosted his own radio show under the DJ name 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:18.280 LT The Tall Cool One, Your Man with the Plan, 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:25.319 his plan get a job with Barry Gordy. Want to 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.280 recognized him when he showed up at Motown for an interview. 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:33.000 When I became a student at cast Technical High School, 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:40.040 I remembered Lawrence being six six and just being shocked 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:46.400 that you know, this tall, slender, very handsome guy was 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:50.600 walking down the hall. Are you kidding me? Lawrence also 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.160 made a good impression on Motown's Boss. Well, he got 0:09:54.200 --> 0:10:00.480 a position as a recording artist, I said, artist. I sorry, 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:04.240 he was a recording engineer. I mean he was an 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:06.880 artist in a way. And while you might not recognize 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.199 Lawrence's name, you definitely know his work. If you look 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.559 at some of those old Motown records, there's actually little 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:14.760 codes on them. This was common back in the day. 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.280 You can find them on any vinyl record, but you'll 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:19.680 see letters, and if you see an L on any 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:23.599 Motown record, that stands for Lawrence. The other thing that 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.320 Barry Gordy put on those labels was the phrase the 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:30.760 sound of Young America, which Motown definitely was Any Holland 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:35.080 one third of the Holland ten and that's about it. 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.760 Hdh wrote, arranged, and produced so many of the songs 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.000 that helped to find the Motown sound in the sixties, 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.080 like Baby Love, You Keep Me Hanging On, and Stop 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:46.640 in the Name of Love. Any said he once heard 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:53.600 it described as Oreo music. Black on the outside went 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:57.079 on the inside like the Oriole Cookie because the chords 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:01.040 that we were used were really pop chords, but we 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.320 just had an R and B feeling because of the 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.760 way we were brought up. Here's Mary Wilson again. What 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.800 was the Motown sound? Can you describe it? You know 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.000 what it has to do with a lot of different 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:15.800 elements and and yes, everyone has trying to say what 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.439 it is. It's like love. Can you tell what love is? Now? 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:22.360 I guess you can't. Obviously Mr Gordy was the person 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.320 on top, but it was all of the workers under 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.880 him who made the music what it is. I actually 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.319 met Lawrence Horn in the studio a as he ran 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.160 the sessions, and you know he was at in the 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.600 pioneer days when they were still kind of creating the 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:44.120 motown sound. In his autobiography To Be Loved, Barry Gordy wrote, quote, 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.600 engineers are often some of the most important, yet overlooked 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.120 factors in a record success. From those early days when 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.800 Lawrence Horn had to handle most of the recording and mixing, 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.880 We've been fortunate to build one of the best engineering 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.480 teams in the business, and Lawrence was the master of 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.760 the control room as chief recording engineer. He handled all 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.440 the recording and technical equipment. I think I would even 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.600 ask him, you know, why were you never a singer 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.800 or a musician, And he would say he liked the 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.400 behind the scenes and that was what he was good at. 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:22.880 For him, that was nirvana. He absolutely loved recording, you 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.360 know what I mean. His face would light up and 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:29.920 when things did not work right, it bothered him because 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:34.960 he was one who wanted everything to be just right. 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.840 He was also known for being quirky and technical. His 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:43.079 personality was extremely off. I mean, he was more of 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:50.680 an intellectual. For an example, you know this character that 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:55.320 Spark from Star Trek, that was really his idle. That's 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.040 the first time I've ever said, you know, he was 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.360 the one from this other plan and he himnd is 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:07.040 that's way over the earth things. Here's Adam White, a 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.960 music journalist who co authored a book on Motown. He 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.720 actually gets his first credit on a couple of Moton 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:17.600 albums in sixty three for editing and engineering two albums 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:21.560 that Motown put out by Dr Martin Luther King. His 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:25.520 famous speeches the Great March on Washington and the Great 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.880 March to Freedom in Detroit in June sixty three, I 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:33.360 have a dreen this afternoon one day right here in Detroit. 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:38.760 For an engineer to actually be named on a Moton 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.480 album sleeve back then, believe me, was pretty unusual. And 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.199 you know the number one hit My Girl by the Temptations, 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:50.000 Lawrence engineered that. I understand he worked on Stop in 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.240 the Name of Love, and I know he worked with 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:58.160 the song Shotgun Shotgun. That's the hit single Shotgun by 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.200 Junior Walker in the All Stars. Gordy shared a producer 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:03.800 credit with Lawrence on the song, which he rarely did. 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.800 The song Shotgun actually starts with the sound of a 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.760 shotgun blast. And while this is a wildly popular song, 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.120 you know it if you heard it, it's really hard 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:17.160 to hear the same once you know this story. Of course, 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.720 I'm thinking about this in the context of this show 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:21.880 with a lot of hindsight, and I want to play 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:23.680 you this song and a lot of the others that 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:27.760 Lawrence helped create, But after months of asking, the publisher 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.480 wouldn't give us the rights to use them here. I mean, 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.320 I can't speculate why, but it does remind me of 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:35.560 that first phone call I made to Palette and Press 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.040 about the book hit Man, the one that was clearly unwanted. 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.080 Knowing where the rest of the story goes, it's not 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:49.400 a huge surprise. I want to jump ahead to the 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.920 early days of the investigation, which went on for a 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:57.040 really long time and became incredibly frustrating and intense, because 0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.800 I want to talk about something else that Lawrence recorded. 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.400 But first you have to remember, whoever had killed Millie 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.520 Trevor in Janice left no evidence behind that could identify him, 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.360 and investigators were a long way from discovering the truth 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:15.120 behind this triple murder. On March twelfth, a little over 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.040 a week later, investigators got a warrant and executed a 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.360 search on Lawrence's Los Angeles apartment, where he lived with 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.560 his girlfriend at the time. The police gathered lots of 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:30.040 cassette tapes. Prosecutor Bob Dean, they looked at records that 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.880 he kept back on that day. He was a computer 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.440 specialist for the early nineteen nineties. He was very advanced 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:41.960 in his computer assessories and equipment. Lawrence recorded more than music, 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.600 He recorded everything. Really, he was just ahead of his time, 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.480 regularly documenting everyday moments in a way that is now 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:52.120 so commonplace. He taped phone conversations. He had a cam 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:54.800 quarter that he'd used to record trips around town with 0:15:54.880 --> 0:16:06.200 his daughters. This is the audio from some of those tapes. Okay, 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:12.120 detectives found hours and hours of footage like this in 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:16.120 Lawrence's apartment, but one tape in particular stood out to 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:20.600 prosecutor Bob Dean. Can you describe it? Do you remember? 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.600 He had set up the camera in his TV room 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:31.040 videoed himself watching TV time stamped the night of the murder. 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.560 In this video, Lawrence is filming his TV that's tuned 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.880 to a rolling channel guide, clearly displaying the time and date. 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:44.880 It reads eleven o three pm March second Pacific Standard time, 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:50.040 showing he was definitely miles away when Millie, Trevor, and 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.920 Janice were killed and he wanted to prove it. Here's 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:58.040 John Marshall, a lawyer and close family friend. So you think, well, 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.240 that was pretty clever, until you think, why would you 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:15.919 do that? We'll be right back. It's actually kind of 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:20.640 an adorable, meat cute scenario. That's Lawrence and Millie's daughter, Tiffany. 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:26.200 They basically had like a whirlwind romance. It was pretty 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:30.680 quick as the sixties come to a close. Motown undergoes 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.240 some major changes. Barry Gordon decides to relocate Motown to 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.200 Los Angeles to be closer to the film and TV industry. 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.679 The hit making team of Holland Dozer Holland leave the label, 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.600 also move out west and take Lawrence with them. In 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.920 two on an American Airlines flight from Detroit to l A, 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.600 a young flight attendant named Millie Marie catches his eye. 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.879 Here's Millie's sister, Maryland Farmer. Millie told me that she 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.680 had met this man and she was really dazzled by 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.679 the fact that he was recording people like Diana Ross 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:09.280 and the Supremes and Stevie Wonder. She was excited about that, 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:14.159 but wow, she'd met someone who was big time. Millie 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.840 was born in ninety in a small town called round Oh, 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:21.360 near the city of Walterboro, South Carolina. Our parents were 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:24.280 sharecroppers and we were poor, you know, but I don't 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.040 ever remember being hungry, and my dad was adamant that 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.480 we had to take care of each other. Millie wanted 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:33.080 to get out and see the world, and as a 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.280 young woman, she figured there was one way she could 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:39.040 accomplish that goal and get paid for it. Here's Tiffany. 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.200 She would read these penny romances my aunt's tell me, 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.920 and many times the star was a flight attendant, she'd 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.440 be up all night under the covers with a flashlight 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.640 reading them. Like she was obsessed with these books. I mean, 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.600 she was living her dream life. To get hired as 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.639 a flight attendant during the nineteen fifties and sixties, a 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.400 woman had to meet very strict requirements. It buried by airline, 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.320 but in general, you had to be female, unmarried, and 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.040 under thirty. You had to weigh less than one thirty 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.800 five pounds and be no taller than five ft eight. 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:13.600 On top of that, airlines just weren't hiring many black women. 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:17.320 I know she applied to one and she was rejected 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.280 because of her knees. They said that her knees were 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:26.360 too big. Can you believe that Lawrence had definitely met 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.679 his match? A woman is driven and willful as he was. 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.000 They were larger than live personalities. And it's funny because 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.000 when they got together it was even more charismas so 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:39.160 on their own they were their own big personalities. They'd 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.040 walk into a room and you have this beautiful black 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:45.240 woman with green eyes and blonde hair and this tall 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.360 guy with curly hair and eyes are on them immediately. 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.280 They were both magnetic. Tiffany showed me a photo of 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.000 them together from around this time. Millie is sitting on 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:58.280 Lawrence's lap with his arm around her waist. Their style 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:02.320 is peak nine seventies, brown leather, high waisted pants. They're 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.280 both beaming. My dad, he knew what he wanted, and 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:08.440 he pursued her, and he bought her jewelry and took 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:10.800 her on trips to Vegas, and they ended up getting 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.480 married on one of those trips in secret. That was 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:19.119 August three, just a year after they met. He was 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.600 thirty three, she was twenty four. If they wanted to 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.400 do something, they did it. And I think that's probably 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:27.440 one of the things that attracted them to each other. 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:31.359 Whether it was considered a luxury thing or something where 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.280 maybe a lot of black people didn't have access to 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:38.280 at that time, I would say, honestly, like my parents 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.720 were never afraid. Tiffany was born about a year after 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.479 Million Lawrence were married. Even she remembers being swept up 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.359 in her parents aura. I can remember being in the 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:51.199 car on a ski trip and just being in the 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.480 back seat and just wishing that was my life all 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.840 the time, that they could get along and that it 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:59.080 was the three of us and we were together all 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.520 the time. This was before or my brother and sister 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:05.359 were born, but something was always a little off between 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:09.200 her parents. Tiffany told me this story about how Lawrence 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:11.680 and Millie were on one of their trips, this time 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:15.720 in Mexico. Millie couldn't swim, but one day at the beach, 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.000 Lawrence helped her out onto a raft anchored just offshore, 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:22.280 and then he just left her there. He just swam away, 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.440 and so she sat there crying until a stranger came 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.280 to help her back, and he was gone. He just disappeared. 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:31.639 That jumps out at me as like unusually cruel that 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:38.520 he did to her. Well, why don't you tell me 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:43.840 about your relationship? Describe that is towards the end of 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:57.440 the match, it was unique, unpredictable, A fast, me stormy. 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:02.200 That's Lawrence Horne's voice. This recording is from a deposition 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:04.480 he gave for a civil case. We'll get into later 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:07.160 in this story, but I wanted you to hear him 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.160 describe his relationship with Milly in his own words. Did 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:17.040 it change over that three Yes? And could you tell 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:21.200 us what the nature of the change was. It was 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:24.879 a series of events. I recall it as being just 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:33.479 constantly one negative on top of another. Trevor, the twins 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:38.280 were born in four They were premature. Millie had a 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:43.320 problem with the birth that created a problem. Because Tiffany 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:49.280 and I weren't here, it just got worse. When you 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:51.919 hear Lawrence describe the marriage, it sounds a lot like 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:58.240 the way Tiffany talks about it. Big personalities, huge emotional swings, breakups, reconciliations. 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:02.520 But there's something darker. Here's what he told Kevin Sullivan, 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:06.320 the Washington Post reporter after the murders. He talked at 0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:10.520 length about Millie, and he really threw her under the bus. 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:14.800 He said that she was volatile and emotional and unpredictable 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:20.479 and violent with him sometimes. And and I said, well, really, 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:24.480 everybody else seems to say that she's this wonderful person 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.159 and and he said, well, I mean I think I 0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:29.080 saw a side of her that nobody else did. And 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:30.600 he and he really kind of went on and on, 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:33.800 and at one point, I remember he even suggested maybe 0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:36.760 she had done it. And I said, oh, come on, 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:39.000 I don't think a mother could arrange something like this, 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:41.040 And he said, yeah, no, I guess that's crazy. But 0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:44.440 you know, my life with her was so so topsy turvy. 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:53.959 Back to the late nineties seventies, Lawrence and Millie are separated. 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:56.560 Millie and Tiffany moved to Maryland to be close to 0:23:56.600 --> 0:24:00.119 her family, and Lawrence stayed in l A. But they 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:03.800 kept going round and round for another five years. In 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:07.440 in nine three, the same year Paladin put out hit Man, 0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:12.639 a technical manual for independent contractors, they reconciled again. He 0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:16.120 never really would let her go. I mean she would 0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:18.919 date and he would pop back up. I think she 0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:22.000 had filed for divorce, but she wasn't divorced. She was 0:24:22.040 --> 0:24:24.480 even engaged at one point, but he was able to 0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:27.119 get her to break it off. He had such a 0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:30.120 power over my mom because she truly loved him, and 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:33.240 you know that's how she ended up being pregnant again 0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:37.080 with my brother and sister. I was shocked. I thought 0:24:37.119 --> 0:24:39.800 the marriage was over. You know, I knew something was 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:42.119 going on. I would hear her whispering on the phone. 0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:45.399 I'm thinking, what is going on? So I'm like listening 0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:47.399 at the door, like ear to the door trying to 0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:53.240