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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm tracybe Wilson, and today we're

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Speaker 1: actually getting something a little different. We have an interview,

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Speaker 1: but it is with an old friend of mine who

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Speaker 1: I'm lucky enough to know because he knows a great

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Speaker 1: deal about historical men's wear. His name is Jason Merrill,

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Speaker 1: and Jason is one of those people who look intapper

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Speaker 1: just about any time you see him. He is never

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Speaker 1: ever sloppy, and he knows a lot, specifically about gentleman's accessories. Well,

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Speaker 1: and I'm also really excited. This is a yet another

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Speaker 1: thing that you have recorded and I have not heard yet.

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Speaker 1: So I'm extremely excited because so many of our fashion

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Speaker 1: episodes are about women's fashion, so it is great we're

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Speaker 1: gonna have a men's one. And since we are coming

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Speaker 1: up on holloween, when you know people might want to

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Speaker 1: go with the historical look for their costume, and then

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Speaker 1: it's the holiday season where maybe you might want to

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Speaker 1: upgrade your look with a little bit of a historical player.

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Speaker 1: Perfect time to discuss how all that goes together. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this is really just a chat. It's an interview,

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Speaker 1: but it stays very casual. You'll discover early on that

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Speaker 1: Jason I have known each other a very long time,

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Speaker 1: and it is really full of fascinating little tips and tidbits.

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Speaker 1: So you're going to get a lot of interesting knowledge

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Speaker 1: that you may not have expected been this first section.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk a little bit about Jason's backstory and

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Speaker 1: how he got into historical clothing, and they're also some

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Speaker 1: little trivia bits in there, including where ties come from, uh,

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Speaker 1: and how military clothing influenced men's fashion. So let's hit it.

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Speaker 1: So now we have a delightful treat and that we

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Speaker 1: have a special guest and in studio no less UH

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Speaker 1: and it is a good friend of mine, Jason Merrill. Welcome, Jason,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. I'm glad to be here. I

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Speaker 1: had a revelation recently that I have known you almost

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Speaker 1: twenty years. Yes, Jason, just to give you a brief story,

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Speaker 1: it was my husband's roommate when my husband and I met,

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Speaker 1: So Jason, I have known each other for a very

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Speaker 1: long time, and it doesn't seem like it. It seems

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Speaker 1: like I just met you recently because we see so

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Speaker 1: little of each other sadly normally once a year at

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Speaker 1: Dragon Con. If you taped together all of our interactions,

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Speaker 1: it might equally year. I don't know if you remember this,

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Speaker 1: but we were moving. I was moving out the same

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Speaker 1: day you were moving in. It was literally passing in

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Speaker 1: the door with boxes. I do remember. It was me

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Speaker 1: and my crazy heard of people. But we have Jason

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Speaker 1: here today not to talk about moving or our history,

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Speaker 1: but instead to talk about something else from history, which

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Speaker 1: is gentlemen's accessories. And he's really kind of a pro

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Speaker 1: because he lives the gentleman's accessory historical lifestyle. I do

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Speaker 1: my best. I tried, I think you do well. So first,

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Speaker 1: will you just tell us a little bit about sort

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Speaker 1: of when you got interested in this and specifically when

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Speaker 1: you got really interested in gentlemen's accessories. Some of it

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Speaker 1: goes back to this was ninety eight when my wife

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Speaker 1: Julie and I we were getting married and she was

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Speaker 1: having a dress made and I already owned a tuxedo.

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Speaker 1: I was not going to wear something I already owned

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Speaker 1: to my wedding. I wanted something fancier, and we both

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Speaker 1: thought that Victorian style was a little more formal than formal,

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Speaker 1: so I had a a waistcoat made so I could

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Speaker 1: wear a pocket watch, a little double breasted waistcoat, and

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Speaker 1: a calf link velvet rock coat. And as part of that,

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Speaker 1: the seamstress made several waistcoats as samples, and I really

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Speaker 1: liked wearing those waistcoats around due to the reaction that

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Speaker 1: they got, so I've been I was kind of wearing

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Speaker 1: steampunkish type stuff long before that actually became affing. And

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Speaker 1: then from there, I had some friends that threw a

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Speaker 1: lolita convention a couple of years ago called Frill, and

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Speaker 1: they need to do some gentlemen's programming, and I offered

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Speaker 1: to come in and talk about accessories and how to

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Speaker 1: tie ascots and botas and things like that. And in

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Speaker 1: my search for samples, I had been buying lots of

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Speaker 1: things off the day so I could get a wide

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Speaker 1: variety of items, and I ended up doing a table

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Speaker 1: at the convention because their boyfriends and husbands and what

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Speaker 1: have you had nothing to you know, it was all

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Speaker 1: freely dresses and all of that stuff. So I figured out,

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Speaker 1: let me give them at least a little oasis in

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Speaker 1: the middle of everything else, And so from there, I've

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Speaker 1: been looking into you know, I've I've started a little

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Speaker 1: sideline where I sell such things. I am a purveyor

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Speaker 1: of of gentlemen's furnishings. So do you have a favorite

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Speaker 1: era in men's fashion Historically? Um, it kind of slides,

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Speaker 1: But I do like the Victorian and the Edwardian because

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Speaker 1: that really is a much more formal, more elegant era,

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Speaker 1: shall we say, But the just the gentleman stuff through

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Speaker 1: the twenties and thirties and back when men actually wore

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Speaker 1: hats and I look horrible in hats. I just I've

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Speaker 1: not found a style that actually works for me. That

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Speaker 1: is sort of when men's fashion kind of got an upgrade. Yes,

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Speaker 1: in terms of like there prior to that, it was

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Speaker 1: largely the military stuff where men really got fancy outfits.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's primarily what has driven your uh, I guess,

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Speaker 1: uh casual, not casual, but your your non military gentleman's

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Speaker 1: where the public life takes its cue from the military life.

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Speaker 1: And that was back um in the Napoleon era. Women

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Speaker 1: really liked the look of those soldiers. That's a dashing figure,

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Speaker 1: that's a really nice, like very appealing silhouette. And the

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Speaker 1: guys that were not in the military started taking their

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Speaker 1: cues from that. They would wear the tighter trousers and

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Speaker 1: they would wear the the what we call a tie

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Speaker 1: actually came out of the Croatian military and their cravat,

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Speaker 1: and that became a very popular public thing. Nice because

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Speaker 1: they're eating correct of military and you still want the women, Yes,

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Speaker 1: you have to emulate the style that they're into. Uh,

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Speaker 1: what do you think is the best starter piece for

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Speaker 1: someone who wants to kind of borrow from historical gentleman's

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Speaker 1: fashion and add a little historical flare in their ensembles

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Speaker 1: day to day. I guess there's there's two answers here.

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Speaker 1: One for a lot of guys, it would be start

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Speaker 1: wearing button down shirts. Take that first step and actually

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Speaker 1: start dressing a little nicer. But once you're once you've

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Speaker 1: gotten comfortable to those sorts of things, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think a pocket watches is a great you know, now,

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Speaker 1: admittedly you have to be wearing like a waistcoat or

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Speaker 1: something like that, but your jeans have a watch pocket

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Speaker 1: in them, and there are the ribbon fobs that are

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Speaker 1: specifically meant for that type of thing, that that short pocket.

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Speaker 1: They're either at the waist or in the I have

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Speaker 1: a suit that has a watch pocket built into the

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Speaker 1: waistband of the pants. Yeah, I've made trousers for my beloved.

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Speaker 1: That are the things that are historical trousers. And when

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Speaker 1: you you'll look at old pictures and you'll see that

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Speaker 1: little ribbon coming from underneath the waistcoat, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't understand what that is. I think that's

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Speaker 1: the case of a lot of historical stuff. You're like,

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Speaker 1: I have no idea what's going on there. But then

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Speaker 1: when you actually take a peek, you realize, oh, this

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Speaker 1: has a great utility. One very simple thing. For example,

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Speaker 1: if you're used to wearing suits all day but you

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Speaker 1: want to take it to the next level, a little

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Speaker 1: color bar holds the points of your collar together. Now,

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Speaker 1: with a bow tie, it's almost completely hidden, but with

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Speaker 1: a straight tie you see the edges of it peek out.

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Speaker 1: But what it does is it holds you're not up higher,

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Speaker 1: it holds it all up and straight and a really

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Speaker 1: nice It's not that it really droops otherwise, but it

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Speaker 1: really does. It helps the tie pop. But that little

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Speaker 1: glint of metal on both sides, and the fact that

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Speaker 1: it's a tighter, sharper appearance. Yeah, it keeps your collar

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Speaker 1: position so crisp that you kind of can't help but

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Speaker 1: look one, it makes you look like you have great

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Speaker 1: posture even if you don't. And too, you just look

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Speaker 1: a little more put together. I have to admit when

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Speaker 1: when I put on my suit or even like a waistcoat,

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Speaker 1: it's like putting on armor, you know, and you do

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Speaker 1: want to present your best appearance. You want to you'll

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Speaker 1: straighten up and you'll you know it just it just

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Speaker 1: helps present that united front. See that's why I like

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Speaker 1: wearing historical corsets. You can actually be slumping, but no

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Speaker 1: one can tell. It's all fixed and held in play

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Speaker 1: with a well fitted waistcoat on One things that drives

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Speaker 1: me absolutely nuts as seeing gentleman wearing a waistcoat that

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Speaker 1: is too small. It's pulling very awkwardly across the front.

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Speaker 1: But you also have shirt blousing out from underneath, and

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Speaker 1: it's supposed to be this smooth silhouette. Don't do that.

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Speaker 1: Just make sure your shirts tucked in and your waistcoat

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Speaker 1: actually covers your waist. The whole point of the waistcoat

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Speaker 1: was to hide your waist, so you shouldn't see your

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Speaker 1: belt buckle. You shouldn't see the edge of your shirt

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Speaker 1: poking out on this side. That's just completely opposite from

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Speaker 1: the purpose of the waistcoat in the first place. Well,

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Speaker 1: you've kind of jumped the line on one of my question,

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Speaker 1: but you also gave me an idea on another question

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Speaker 1: that I'm gonna ask you later. So my next question

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Speaker 1: is going to be And since we've already covered the

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Speaker 1: shirts sticking out from under the waistcoat, you can go

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Speaker 1: to something else if you want, which is are there

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Speaker 1: any major pitfalls that newcomers to historical men's where really

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Speaker 1: need to be careful about that They may not naturally

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Speaker 1: think of, Um will fit fits very important anyway, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of people just don't understand. You know, the

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Speaker 1: reason why your Hollywood stars look absolutely fantastic and just

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Speaker 1: a T shirt and jeans is that it's been tailored

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Speaker 1: to them. They have shoppers who know their measurements, and

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Speaker 1: they know that if they buy something, for example, if

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Speaker 1: they buy a shirt that fits in the shoulders, you know,

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Speaker 1: across the back, everything else can be taken in and

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Speaker 1: tucked and tailored. What have you? So, knowing your measurements

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Speaker 1: and knowing what what does fit and what you can

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Speaker 1: get altered means when you start to wear uh, historical

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Speaker 1: stuff like the waistcoat, you'll know the proper length. You'll

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Speaker 1: know to get something that's not too big so you're

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Speaker 1: swimming in it, and not too small that it looks

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Speaker 1: like you're about to bust out any moment. Well, and

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Speaker 1: this gets into that area, and it happens in both

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Speaker 1: men's where and women's where where. Um, there's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of vanity shrinkage in your measurements, yes, and some

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Speaker 1: of it is aspirational. Someone will say, oh, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: drop five pounds and then this will fit perfect. But

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Speaker 1: if it takes longer than you think, or if your

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Speaker 1: life gets busy and you can't maintain whatever you're eating

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Speaker 1: and exercise regiment is you've basically, particularly in historical garments,

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Speaker 1: which are usually a little bit pricier if you want

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Speaker 1: to get quality, you have basically spent money on a

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Speaker 1: thing that makes you look like an unhappy sausage. But

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Speaker 1: as an example, I have a vented suit ipot and

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Speaker 1: I got it via eBay u k so it had

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Speaker 1: been custom tailored for someone in the sixties. It happens

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Speaker 1: to fit me perfectly because I've got really weird measurements

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Speaker 1: and they had really weird measurements, and that's how I

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Speaker 1: got it by auction, because nobody else did on it.

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Speaker 1: It wouldn't fit them. But the when you're having something

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Speaker 1: like that made you take into account that you're going

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Speaker 1: to drift sizes. So the pants have built in suspenders.

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Speaker 1: They're just you know, elastic and adjustable, but they also

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Speaker 1: have the side adjusters so if your waist slides up

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Speaker 1: a bit or slides down a bit, and have those

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Speaker 1: side adjusters. And when you're buying things like oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: jeans or a suit these days, it's pretty much that

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Speaker 1: size and that's it. But if you if you are

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Speaker 1: careful and you know what to look for, you can

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Speaker 1: find them with the side tabs and things like that.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I had never noticed until

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Speaker 1: recently was, and this is just an odd sideline thing,

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Speaker 1: but James Bond doctor now he always had his Sean

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Speaker 1: Connery had his suits made by a guy named Anthony Sinclair,

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Speaker 1: and he had the pants done with the side tabs,

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Speaker 1: so he was never wearing bracers or or a belt,

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Speaker 1: but he would button his shoulder holster to the unused

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Speaker 1: button his pants where these side adjusters were, and I

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Speaker 1: had always seen them, you know, I remember him buttoning,

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Speaker 1: you know, unbuttoning his shoulder holster and taking it off,

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Speaker 1: and I was wondering what that button was. And then

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Speaker 1: later on, you know, I was reading about his suits

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Speaker 1: and it's like, of course, that makes perfect sense, but

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Speaker 1: I had never you know, as a kid seeing it,

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Speaker 1: you have no idea. I also just love that there's

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Speaker 1: a place to read about his suits. There's an entire

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Speaker 1: website devoted to the suits of James Bond. Of course

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Speaker 1: there is, and it is a brilliant source, not just

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Speaker 1: for you know, what he's wearing, but the history behind

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Speaker 1: the various tough styles and you know why he was

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Speaker 1: wearing this particular type of tuxedo, jacket or ensemble at

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Speaker 1: a particular point in time. If you had a magic

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Speaker 1: wand and you could choose one historical fashion or growing practice,

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Speaker 1: and this could be men or women that could be

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Speaker 1: brought back into the modern era, what would you pick. Um,

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Speaker 1: That's actually kind of hard because a lot of what

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Speaker 1: used to be done is still being done. It's just

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Speaker 1: not his widespread you know, I think every gentleman or

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Speaker 1: want to be gentleman, should go and have a straight

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Speaker 1: razor shave. Oh yeah, Actually, go for the whole package.

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Speaker 1: Find a find a salon that you know, get a trim,

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Speaker 1: but get a straight razor shave, the full deal with

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Speaker 1: the hot towels, but get a manicure at the same time. Pamper,

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Speaker 1: pamper yourself. I mean women do it all the time.

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Speaker 1: Guys we need to do the same thing. And I

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Speaker 1: can't tell you how relaxing it is to have that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the hot towels on your face and just

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Speaker 1: nice and calm and having a professional shave like that.

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Speaker 1: It all. It helps you realize what you can be

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Speaker 1: doing at home. I mean when you're when you're a

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Speaker 1: guy who shaves, it's something you're gonna do every single day,

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Speaker 1: so you might as well make it something that's enjoyable.

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Speaker 1: Turn it into a bit of a ritual. And while

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Speaker 1: you don't have to do, say the hot towel yourself,

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Speaker 1: you can pay attention as they're doing their routine and

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Speaker 1: you can go, Okay, well they use this pre shave oil.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I can try that, and I shave with a

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Speaker 1: double edge safety razor at home. But I do the

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Speaker 1: appreciave oil. I have a brush. I like, um, experimenting

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Speaker 1: with different types of shaving creams and preparations and what

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Speaker 1: have you. But there's something really comforting about a really

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Speaker 1: really hot brush and lather going on. And it's just

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Speaker 1: particularly it's something where you really like the scent of

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Speaker 1: the shaving cream. Yeah, that's to help start your day.

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Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, this is nice. I've never thought about that,

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Speaker 1: but it makes sense. You know. It is a great

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Speaker 1: ritual and it's uh and and I'm with you. I

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Speaker 1: think everybody should get equal pampering opportunities. Yeah, uh so

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Speaker 1: I love it get a nice straight razor shaved gents.

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Speaker 1: So here's an interesting thing. Um, you kind of alluded

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Speaker 1: to this when you mentioned that there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of greaming habits that we've retained over the years. And

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Speaker 1: we know men's wear similarly has not gone through the

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Speaker 1: same wide swings in terms of trends that women's has.

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Speaker 1: We know, at no point did you attach cages to

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Speaker 1: your behind to look huge in the posterior. Uh, don't

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Speaker 1: do it, but we we shoved ourselves into pants that

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Speaker 1: were far too tight. We still do that, do you

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Speaker 1: ever feel like you wish that men's wear had had

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Speaker 1: a little more variety, Like do you ever feel like

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Speaker 1: you got shafted in terms of your options in historical clothing?

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Speaker 1: Not really. I mean it's yeah, you could think that, well,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's a it's a hard thing to say

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Speaker 1: because there have been attempts at it and they've just

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Speaker 1: never stuck around because there's nothing like that classic suit. Yeaw,

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Speaker 1: they shifted over time, you know, obviously there um. I

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Speaker 1: guess one of one of the best examples of casual

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Speaker 1: slash sporting items shifting into businesswear is the button down collar.

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Speaker 1: Brooks Brothers brought that over in the eighteen hundreds because

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Speaker 1: they saw polo players doing that in England and they

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Speaker 1: would sew buttons onto their shirts to keep their collars

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Speaker 1: from flapping into their face while they are playing polo.

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Speaker 1: So basically that's sportswear. But now it's considered such fancy pants,

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Speaker 1: unicorn clothing option. Correct. Brooks Brothers has made that into

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00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,199
Speaker 1: a fancy option, And I have to admit, I see,

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Speaker 1: you know, publicity photos of C. E O S and

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Speaker 1: they're wearing button down shirts and I'm just like shaking

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Speaker 1: my head. You can do. What they need is a

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Speaker 1: little collar bar correct a problem. You know. Now that

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00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,960
Speaker 1: I've got the collar bars, I've also realized the last

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Speaker 1: couple of French cup shirts that I've bought have very

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Speaker 1: widespread dollars spread color. You can use it because the

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00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,480
Speaker 1: collar is meant to be spread. But that means you've

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00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,199
Speaker 1: got more options for the knots on your ties. You

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00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,679
Speaker 1: can make it, you know, you can make them a

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Speaker 1: look thicker. You need to balance your length of collar

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Speaker 1: with your tie. Kno, you need to balance the length

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Speaker 1: of your tie with the lapel on your jack. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to know massive seventies tie with a

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Speaker 1: thin sixties collar, which kind of makes me chuckle. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you a side story about I was

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00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 1: working on a video shoot completely unrelated to work, as

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00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 1: a favor for somebody, and one of our characters had

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Speaker 1: to have his tie, just a regular tie tied, and

320
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 1: he not will do There was only one person on

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Speaker 1: the entire cast and crew that could tie a tie.

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Speaker 1: I can do them, but it's real floppy, gloppy. It's

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Speaker 1: not really good for film. So we had to call

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Speaker 1: in the pro and I have tied this poor boys tie.

325
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:02,520
Speaker 1: I um, I was going to an event. Uh it

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Speaker 1: was for for an anime convention. Was throwing a semi formal.

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Speaker 1: So I was walking up to the event and someone

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Speaker 1: came running up to me and said, can you tie

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Speaker 1: a bow tie? And I'm like did you point? And

330
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 1: I was wearing it and I was like, yes, yes

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Speaker 1: I can. And they brought their friend over and I

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Speaker 1: showed them how to tie the tie. And I ran

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Speaker 1: into them later at a completely different convention and they

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00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:32,160
Speaker 1: were like, bow tie guy, thank you so much. See

335
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 1: not difficult skills, but it took me forever to learn

336
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 1: how to tie a bow tie. And I was doing

337
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,120
Speaker 1: things a little backwards, and I watched all the videos

338
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 1: and I just I couldn't figure it out. But then

339
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 1: I ran across a vintage diagram on how to tie

340
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 1: an ascot. This is the version of an ascot where

341
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 1: you've got the not in front and you cross you know,

342
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 1: you pull it through and you crossed the peace is

343
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,920
Speaker 1: and you do a tie tack or a and ask

344
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 1: got penned to hold it all in place and a.

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00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 1: The way the diagram was done, one side of the

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00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 1: tie was white and the other was black, and it

347
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 1: was looking at that, going oh, well, here's where I've

348
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,439
Speaker 1: been doing it wrong. And then I realized my I

349
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: bought a basically a casual bow tie because I've been

350
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 1: trying with a black silk black tie, I mean, and

351
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 1: that's official black tie. And I tried the casual one

352
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,680
Speaker 1: and I got it immediately, and I'm like, what's going

353
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 1: on here? And I tried a couple of times and

354
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: I kept getting it. I swapped over to the black

355
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: tie and it was smaller, about a half an inch,

356
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,360
Speaker 1: so that tolerances were much less and I can tie it,

357
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: but I have to be a little more careful. And

358
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: I realized that I was poke trying to poke, you know,

359
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 1: one piece through the other the wrong direction, and that's

360
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,679
Speaker 1: why I kept just coming apart on it. You just

361
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: needed a starter tie, like you're training wheels tie. And

362
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: I keep meaning to have a friend make me one

363
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 1: that's like that. I want to have an ascot made

364
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: that has one side white and the other side black,

365
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 1: and the same with a bow tie, and the same

366
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: with a long tie, so I can show people that

367
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 1: the panel you need to do it cons is try

368
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: tying well. I do um uh. A basic gentleman's Successories panel,

369
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 1: and then I talked. I talked about how to tie

370
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: ties and ascots and what the differences are, and how

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00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 1: to do your ascot pin you know, because it's it's

372
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: not as simple as just sticking it through. You have

373
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,439
Speaker 1: to go through the front layer. You have to go

374
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: through the inner layer. You have to go through your

375
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 1: shirt back out, through the shirt, back out through the

376
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: inner layer right and then pin it correct. A lot

377
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: of people either just do it through the tie itself

378
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: and therefore it still kind of flaps around, or they'll

379
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: do with you and they'll poke it right out the front,

380
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: so you see the the pin cap or end cap

381
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: on the outside of everything. And really you want just

382
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: the the decorative bit showing and not the not the

383
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 1: utility underpinning. Nice Um, I'll diverge a minute so quickly.

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Speaker 1: The difference between a cravat and a tie and an ascot.

385
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 1: The basically, and this happens with just about everything, is

386
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: the terms become generic over time from people either not

387
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: using them correctly or just misunderstanding. But basically, the Coroatian

388
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: original is what gave us the term cravat, which now

389
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: means just about any type of necktie. Your ascot is

390
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: a particular style of necktie where it's got two blades.

391
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 1: For example, your standard long tie has a wider end

392
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: and a thinner end that goes behind, and ascot has

393
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: to blade aids of the same size with either just

394
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: a thin piece of cloth in the middle that goes

395
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: behind your neck, or it's all the same width kind

396
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: that thin piece just has been um gathered and stitched,

397
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: or I've seen them sometimes pleaded down. Pleat was the

398
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 1: word I was looking for. So that's it's pleaded, and

399
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: that's what goes behind your neck. And then with the

400
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: just like with your long tie, there are many different

401
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: knots and ways to tie it. With the ascot. You

402
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: can tie it like a bow tie, and then you

403
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: pull the ends on through and that gives you the

404
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: pieces that you can pin and down in front. You

405
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: can leave it like a big bow if you wish,

406
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: which I think there's an iteration of the joker that

407
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: did that correct? Correct? Then there is the you can

408
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: tie an ascot like a regular long tie with basically

409
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: the windsor where you just flip the end over and

410
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: and flipping through. Yeah, so it gives you it looks

411
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: like a standard neck tie. Not. It's just you really

412
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: should be wearing a waistcoat with that, because it's only

413
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: about this. You know, it comes down mid chest right

414
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: there at your sternament. It looks kind of silly if

415
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: you're not wearing anything over right. Well, but you can

416
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 1: also tie it like a neckerchief or just like well, yeah,

417
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: just loop it inside your collar. Yeah. When you mentioned

418
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: waistcoat right after talking about how words have gotten a

419
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: little dicey and fuzzy, I'll tell you a brief story

420
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: of I was making a costume for a gentleman. It

421
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: was Victorian version of a comic book figure that he

422
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: wanted to do a custom and we had been talking

423
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: all this time, and there were things he was saying

424
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: that wasn't They just weren't making sense to me. And

425
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: then I realized he didn't know that waistcoat did not

426
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: mean your coat. That it was more like the best piece.

427
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: So those best and waistcoat are kind of interchangeable, and

428
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: you have to make sure people you know, you're on

429
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: the same page. It's like, okay, when you mean this,

430
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: you are talking about this, yes, so um this one.

431
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: I know your answer because you talked about it briefly. Beforehand.

432
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: But what, in your opinion, is the most uncomfortable historical

433
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: men's garment the the collar in in the old style detachable,

434
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: very stiff collar. Those things are crazy stiff, like you

435
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 1: can almost use them as a tire. The invention of

436
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: the soft collar is one of the greatest you know

437
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: that should be celebrated from the rooftops. And for for

438
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: our wedding, I did have a detachable collar shirt and

439
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: by the end of the day it had cut me

440
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: at the back and sides because I just wasn't used

441
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: to wearing and wearing them for long periods of time.

442
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: It's really uncomfortable. Now. The the other one that goes

443
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: along with that would be suck garters. Oh oh, do

444
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: you get dig into this in It removes hair, particularly

445
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: over time, it'll just wear a thin spot because once

446
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: again you're not used to doing it. H And I

447
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: still can't decide whether sock garters are the perfect application

448
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: of scientific principle to a fashion need or just out

449
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: and out comedy or of torture. Well, yeah, they are

450
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: tortured well, but a lot of fashion is torture devices

451
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: one way or the other. Your collars your tight course,

452
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,959
Speaker 1: it's your well, a good course, it shouldn't hurt, and

453
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 1: that's the prosperitizer. Of course. I think one of the

454
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:50,719
Speaker 1: reasons why people are resistant to wearing fancier clothes is

455
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: whatever experience they have had with them in the past

456
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: has been uncomfortable. Yes, they would get nice shoes to

457
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: wear to church every week, but that would be the

458
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 1: only time they would wear them. So for two hours

459
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: on a Sunday, you're cramming your feet into these things

460
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: that may not have fit perfectly, but you're not wearing

461
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: them enough to wear them in, or you're you know,

462
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: having to wear a shirt and a tie in your

463
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: shirt collar may not be the proper width, so it's

464
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: a little too tight, and then you add a tie

465
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: on top of that. But if you're if your clothing fits,

466
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: it's comfortable. That's why fit is so important. Yeah, that,

467
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: and that comes up a lot, particularly in historical garments,

468
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: I think, much less so than modern clothing, where fit

469
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: is super important, but we have a lot more nits

470
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: in the mix. We have a lot more stretch and

471
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: ease baked into patterns, Whereas when you wear a fitted

472
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: historical garment like the arm's eye, that circle that makes up.

473
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: You know, the armhole where your arm in your sleeve meats. Uh,

474
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,479
Speaker 1: if that is like tight on like a victorian garment

475
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: or um, like an eighteenth century gown or something. If

476
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: it's off just a little, raising your arms is almost impossible.

477
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: But if it's in the right place, you have pretty

478
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: smooth range of movement. Yeah, it's but it's also when

479
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: you're doing the historical clothing. For the most part, it's

480
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: being custom made for you and you can make sure

481
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: things fit appropriately. Where when you're dealing with vintage clothes,

482
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: you really need to know your fit going in first,

483
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: you need to know your sizes. Um. So, now that

484
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: we've talked about the uncomfortable stuff, what is the most

485
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: comfortable item of men's wear that is no longer worn

486
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: in your opinion? Uh? Well, honestly, the ascot. When you're

487
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: a nice silk ascot tucked into your shirt, I mean,

488
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: it's a much more casual look than a full tie,

489
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: and it's so very comfortable. People just don't you know

490
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: there's a reason why you well, they are still worn today.

491
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: I mean that's none of the of stuff is truly

492
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: completely just flat out disappeared, but ascots are they're really comfortable. Um,

493
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: So I'm going backwards a little bit because of the

494
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: question you made me think of when you talked about

495
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: the shirts poking out from ant of the waistcoats. What

496
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,959
Speaker 1: is your thought on the mix of kind of modern

497
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: and historical, Like, does it make you crazy to see

498
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: someone in a T shirt and a really nice waistcoat

499
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: or are you down with kind of mixing up the

500
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: air is a little bit he's making a face, So

501
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: I think I know the I used to when I

502
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: was in college. I would wear T shirts, you know,

503
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: like a playing white T shirt and a waistcoat and

504
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: things like that. I think it has its place, but

505
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be trying to make that more than what

506
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: it is. That's all a casual look. At the moment,

507
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: I'm wearing what I tend to wear normally to work,

508
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: which is a waistcoat, a bow tie, you know, a

509
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: nice white dress shirt, and uh, nice dress shoes, polishable

510
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: you know, black leather shoes. But I'm also wearing dark

511
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: colored jeans. And it's basically I think the the overall

512
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: rule is that you can add one less formal item

513
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: to an ensemble more than one, then it is very

514
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: much casual, and it depends on where you're going to

515
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: be wearing this. If you're going out for an evening

516
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: with friends, that works, you know, a nice a nice

517
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: blazer over a solid color T shirt. That's a good look,

518
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, particularly if it's maybe a the T shirt

519
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: has like a higher collar, the mock turtleneck type of thing.

520
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: But that doesn't work in a situation where you really

521
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: should be wearing a top. It's just it's it's to me,

522
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: it's situational. I don't mind the mixing, but it depends

523
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: on how far you're trying to take it right. It's

524
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: not appropriate for all venues. Correct correct and dressing well

525
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: is a sign of respect for both the people you're

526
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: going to be meeting and interacting with, but you also

527
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: need to respect the event itself. And and this is

528
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: something I run across because I run a black tie

529
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: invited formal event for Anime Weekend Atlanta. It's still a

530
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: formal event even though it's at an anime con. We

531
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: ask you can wear a costume, but it needs to

532
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: be what that character would wear to a formal event.

533
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: Not just because you like this character and you want

534
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: to wear what they wear, but you need to think

535
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: about the tone of the overall event, and it's a

536
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: sign of respect for the event itself, but for everybody

537
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: else at the event who has gone to the trouble

538
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: to find a tuxedo or to make a ball gown

539
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: in their character's call. I like to think of it

540
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: as kind of it's it's formal stealth cosplay. You take

541
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: the colors of your character and you echo them in

542
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: the clothing you would wear to that event, just like

543
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: the I guess the Disney Bound where you go to

544
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: the park and say you're you're not actually in a

545
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: Peter Pan costume, but everything you're wearing is the proper

546
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: colors to match what Peter Pan would wear or aerial

547
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: or you know. And I've seen some fantastic examples of that,

548
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: both for casual clothes for wandering the parts, but also

549
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: at our formal events, where people find the right you know,

550
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: for example, it will be a black tuxedo, but they

551
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: ll ad the proper color waistcoat and tie and accessories

552
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: to match their character's colors. I love it, and that

553
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: to me, it's it. When it's done right, you're able

554
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: to exercise your creativity and beyond just oh, I want

555
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: to be X, but it's what do I have to

556
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: do to be X in this situation where I am

557
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: properly attired and I am respectful of both the event

558
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: and everyone else that's there. I love it. Um. I

559
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: have a question that one of my friends wanted me

560
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 1: to ask, just because I said, do you any questions

561
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: you would ask somebody who's an expert in historical men's way? Okay?

562
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: And he said, what is the actual function of a

563
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: monocle other than stereotypical shorthand for fancy? Well, I mean

564
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: it's it's I wear. I mean it's it's eyeglasses for

565
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: you know, if you have, say myopia in one eye,

566
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: you get your prescription for that. I but a lot

567
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 1: of times it's purely for magnification purposes and you don't

568
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: wear it. The wearing it all the time is shorthand

569
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,479
Speaker 1: for fancy, but you don't wear them all the time.

570
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: But I think it's it's shorthand for cartoon fans. Yes. Yes,

571
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: if you've ever tried to wear a monocle for any

572
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: period of time, you understand that that doesn't work. It's uncomfortable.

573
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: They just pop out. Not for driving, not a corrective

574
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: lens for driving. Now I have one, but it is

575
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: it is a just a magnifier, but it's nice to

576
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,919
Speaker 1: have that, you know, on a loop around your neck

577
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: and then when you need it, you just pull it

578
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: out and it's there. Well. I always wonder too, if

579
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: it's someone like me who has equally mediocre vision in

580
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: both eyes. But I often don't wear corrective lenses because

581
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: I like the world fuzzy. But there are times when

582
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: I need a little bit of magnification or you know, clarity,

583
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: like if I'm looking at something on that during a presentation,

584
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: then I could use a monocle. Yes, yes, you could.

585
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: Or I have a pair of pincenay Yeah. And when

586
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: I got them, I thought that they were just somebody's

587
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: really weird prescription, and I took them to my eye

588
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: doctor with the express purpose of asking, could I get

589
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: my prescription in these? And I could you know, clean

590
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: up and they're missing the court pieces that go over

591
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: the next But she looked at him and said, no,

592
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: these are both three times magnifiers. This was not someone's

593
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: every day where. This was probably a jeweler or a watchmaker,

594
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: someone who needed that type of magnification. So I've left

595
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: them as is, and they're wonderfully. If I need to

596
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: read something and I've got my at some point I

597
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: will need reading glasses, so I've got a little bit

598
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: like I am exactly so, and that's what I'm wearing,

599
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: my contacts or glasses. But I can whip out the

600
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: pin snah and read the incredibly tiny fine print. You know,

601
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: you're trying to see who manufactured something, and you can

602
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: just pop those out and they're perfect. Those little identifying

603
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: numbers on Apple products seem like they're shrinking every year. Um.

604
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: Another question I got from that same friend, my friend Brian,

605
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: was why did the wrist watch became fashionable over the

606
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: pocket watch World War One? There you go, We're done.

607
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: When you were in the trenches fighting the First World War,

608
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: it was much easier to take your pocket watch and

609
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 1: strap it to your wrist so you could quickly see

610
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: what time it was rather than fumbling through your pockets.

611
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: And because the soldiers. Once again, the soldiers did it,

612
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: and private individuals saw that and said I want to

613
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: do the same thing. But it was it was the

614
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 1: fact that it was a necessity during the First World

615
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: War for people to do that because the only watches

616
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: you had where the pocket watches? Now, um, they shifted

617
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: to you know, they started making more and more wrist watches,

618
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: and pocket watches became less popular. But there's still I

619
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: mean I'm wearing one now. There's still out there and

620
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: available and popular, and I like them. I am admittedly

621
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: kind of breaking a rule because I'm wearing both a

622
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: pocket watch and a wristwatch. How many? Well, right, but

623
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: it's I guess it's It's also one of those fashion

624
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: rules is you, you know, only where one time piece,

625
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: only wear one, just like you would only wear one

626
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: set of glasses, you would only wear one tie, bar

627
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: you only wear one tie. There's a certain point of

628
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: going overboard. Now you can be the bow tie and

629
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: the multiple clock skuy right, Well, I have to admit

630
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 1: there have been times when I've been wearing stuff and

631
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 1: wanted to demonstrate the different methods of wearing a bow tie.

632
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: I mean not a bow tie but a pocket watch,

633
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: because I have a single Albert chain on now, which

634
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 1: it has a T bar on one end that it's

635
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,399
Speaker 1: in your buttonhole. It's got the long chain that leads

636
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: to the pocket watch that's in a pocket, and then

637
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: there's a drop on it. Or a fob, and in

638
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: this case it's a it's a vintage watch key that

639
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: would have been used to wind your watch. Gotcha, this

640
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: watch doesn't require one. But I've I've found several examples

641
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: of these. But you can wear it in your upper pocket,

642
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: you can wear it in your the side pockets on

643
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: the waistcoat. But then there's so many different types of chains.

644
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: You've got a double Albert where you've got too long

645
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: chains where you would attach like a pocket knife or

646
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: some of the item on the other side, and you

647
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: would still have the t bar in the middle. There

648
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: are long chains that you would just thread through your button.

649
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: There are the ribbon fobs that you could wear in

650
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: either the waist level pocket, or you could, uh, for example,

651
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: run the tea through your bootineer and wear the watch

652
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: in your jacket pocket. Oh, I don't think I've ever

653
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 1: seen that before. I'm sure I haven't. I bet I

654
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: haven't noticed. In Go Mas Adams he would wear I

655
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: feel like a fool. Well, I never I never realized that.

656
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: But there's at least one example where he and Mortisha

657
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: are dancing and he is dancing so exuberantly that his

658
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: pocket watch flips out of his jacket pocket and is

659
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: just dangling there. But I've always wondered what that little

660
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: chain was. And then I saw him dancing, But oh,

661
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: that's where he wears his watch. And then I keep

662
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: running across these watch chains. And if all you knew

663
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: of wearing in your pocket, you've realized that's far too short.

664
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make sense because it wouldn't go from

665
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: the button into the pocket with enough depth for the

666
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: watch to sit there. Now it's fear to wear in

667
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: your jacket, your boot. Okay, now it's the bonus round.

668
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: What other yummy and delightful little factoids do you want

669
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: to share? I've already run across a few of them,

670
00:40:55,080 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: like the uh button down collars, and the the width

671
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: of the tie and the width of your lapel. When

672
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: when I've been looking through that that big box of ties,

673
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to tell the era a tie has

674
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: come from. But what you can not buy, you can

675
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: tell not by the width of the time, because that

676
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: almost remains kind of standard. There will always be really

677
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: wide ones, there will always be really skinny one. You

678
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: can tell by the length of the time. Oh yeah,

679
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: the forties, we're much shorter ties and then they got

680
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: longer as time went on. But even then that's still

681
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 1: an inexact. You know, manufacturers put dates on things. Please

682
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 1: you don't think it's important, but years from now someone

683
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: will be running across your items and want to know

684
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,839
Speaker 1: when it was manufactured. Yeah, well then you also they'll

685
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: get into the thing where a lot of things are manufactured.

686
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 1: They are either made by like, you know, one person

687
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 1: doing a one off or I know I run into

688
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: a lot of those when I shop vintage, Like I

689
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: can tell like, oh, somebody made this, you know, it's

690
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: really hard to age. Usually I end up having to

691
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: try to guess based on the textile that was used.

692
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: Like I can say, oh, this is you know, a

693
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: slubby silk that was popular in the late sixties. You know.

694
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: But but even that it's a guest because a lot

695
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: of times, especially in modern era, people would like to

696
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: reproduce those old popular textiles. That's an important point though.

697
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: Knowing when certain materials were used as the primary material

698
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: for a certain items does help date because you know,

699
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: at least you know, rayon was invented, you know, in

700
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: the forties, so it's not going to be something from

701
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: the twenties or thirties because this wasn't around or actually,

702
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: well right on is probably invented earlier than that, but

703
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. I I associated start with forties fifties,

704
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: but I have no basis for that. That's my brain

705
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: shuffling stuff around, So don't take any of that is Um,

706
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: do you ever go bananas? Like when people are mixing

707
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: matchy with their eras, even if it's all historical, does

708
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: it bug you? I mean, let's say, outside of they're

709
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 1: not trying to represent oh I'm Victorian, and they clearly

710
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: have on something that's out of time, but just in general,

711
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: if their style is get old and they mixed too

712
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,399
Speaker 1: many periods, does it make you cuckoo a little bit?

713
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: I mean, well, for example, and this is mainly not

714
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: knowing what they really are or how to wear them right,

715
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: but seeing people wear really thick neck ties as if

716
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: they are ascots just looks odd. I don't know if

717
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: I've ever seen that, but now I'm gonna keep an

718
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: eye out. And the other thing is, um, I have

719
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: seen people where it's I've heard it referred to as

720
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: different things, but I know it as a stock that's

721
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: your neckcloth. That's just really, really really really long, and

722
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: you wrap it around your neck a couple of times,

723
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: and if you only wrap it, say twice, you get

724
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: a really big bow. If you wrap it three times,

725
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 1: you get a smaller bow. There are many different things

726
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 1: you can do with it, but what you shouldn't do

727
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: is just wrap it around once and loop it over

728
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: like it's an ascot to tuck into your collar, because

729
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: then you have a piece that goes down to about

730
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: your knees that you're having the stuff inside your shirt.

731
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: Because I had to help somebody with that because they

732
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: thought it was just an ascot. But it just seemed

733
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: wrong to them too, because it was too long. And

734
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: it's like, well, that's because it is. You're supposed to

735
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: wear it this particular way, but they didn't want to

736
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: loop it around there, you know, they didn't like things

737
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: on their neck like that. Right, Well, here's something you

738
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 1: can do to wear it and not be is sight

739
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: with it. But it's also not you know, you're not

740
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: having to stuff it down and wrap it around your waist.

741
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: That's like maybe the big piece of wisdom, right, like,

742
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: let logic be your guide. If it seems really funky,

743
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: you're probably doing it wrong. Yes, And then take take

744
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 1: that step back and maybe try and do a little

745
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: bit of research and take luck. I mean, but but

746
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: a lot of big problem is people selling things mislabeled

747
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: because they don't understand what they are. I can't tell

748
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: you how many cuff links I have run across and

749
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: those are air quotes with my fingers that are actually

750
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: shirt studs because they have there's a there's a certain

751
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: style of shirt stud that has a long piece behind

752
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: the stud that's got a little spring loaded bit. Those

753
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: are studs to hold your shirt together or your waistcoat together.

754
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: They are not cuff links. They don't work as cufflings.

755
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 1: If you even try them once as cuff links, you

756
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: will understand, oh, this must be something else flapping. And

757
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 1: yet you will find them all over eBay and Etsy

758
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: and other know in antique stores labeled as cut lengths

759
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 1: actually studs. That's one of the things that even got

760
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: me into buying things as examples, because when I was

761
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,760
Speaker 1: trying to find items for myself, I kept finding things

762
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: mislabeled and misidentified, like a a very long stock slash

763
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:38,399
Speaker 1: neckcloth sold as an ascot. Well, mascots are one thing.

764
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: They're the double bladed a stock has no blades. It's

765
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: just one really long piece of cloth. It doesn't been

766
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: around forever exactly. I mean, if you look at colonial ware,

767
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: if you look at European Rococo era, they're just they're

768
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: floating about like and they really look great, but you

769
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: have to learn and how to wear them. And time.

770
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: I finally bought myself one. It's kind of a lavender

771
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: slight purple, just so I could learn how to play

772
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: with it. And it's you know, you can do all

773
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 1: manner of those. You can still do a standard. You know,

774
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: you can loop it around your neck a couple of times,

775
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: but you can do any kind of not once you've

776
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 1: done that, and they're just there. They are, I guess

777
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 1: more regency era, but they definitely add a certain amount

778
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: of class or whatever you're wearing. I love it. I

779
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: love it. Jason. Thank you so much for sharing all

780
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: of your vast knowledge with us. And I know that's

781
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: not actually all of it. There's tons more. Well, this

782
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: was fun. I'm glad to have the chance. Where can

783
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: people find you? Well? Uh, I run a company called

784
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: Blackbird Finery and where blackbird Finery dot com and I'm

785
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: on et scene, Facebook, my sideline is Blackbird Finery, and

786
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: I occasionally do shows here in town, like the Speakeasy,

787
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,720
Speaker 1: elector Swing or steampunk events. And I will be uh

788
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,240
Speaker 1: joining with some other folks to vend at the Sunday

789
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 1: in the Park at Oakland Cemetery in October. Oh, it's

790
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,280
Speaker 1: just spectacular. I'm missing it this year. I keep always

791
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: getting scheduled out of town. When it happened, I've never been.

792
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: Oh it's my friend's approached me to. We're going to

793
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: get a couple of tents and so I'll have the

794
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: gentleman's accessories. I have a friend who sells shaving gear,

795
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 1: and so he and I are going to share a tent.

796
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: And then there's some other both women's jewelry and handmade

797
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: soaps and candles and things like that. I love it,

798
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: and I was super bummed I was missing it. I

799
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 1: was already bummed, but uh, you know, duty calls in

800
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:42,919
Speaker 1: any case. Jason, thank you so much. What a treat

801
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: for us to get to hang out with somebody who's

802
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 1: a pro on this stuff. Well, thank you very much.

803
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: I love it. Uh, and we're mat will bid you

804
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: with you there. He had it. If you have thought

805
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: about venturing into ventage dressing. Maybe this we'll give you

806
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: some ideas and inspiration. And if you've been dabbling in

807
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: historical clothing, we hope this has given you some new ideas. Holly,

808
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 1: do you also have listener mail to top all this off?

809
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: I do, indeed, And I also want to mention to

810
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 1: our listeners in the show notes that fabulous James Bond

811
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: website really talked about his suits in detail, uh and

812
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: serious detail about like the tailoring and who did it.

813
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: That is going to be in our show notes, So

814
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: never fear. My listener mail is from our listener Nada,

815
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: and she says, Hi, Tracy and Holly, I have been

816
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: a listener to your podcast since the past year and

817
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: I absolutely love it, but this episode was particularly exciting

818
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 1: to hear she's referring to the Pastry War. She says.

819
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: The reason behind that is that I'm Mexican and I

820
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: also live in Vera, Cruz. I enjoyed a lot listening

821
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 1: to this again since I studied the Pastry War in

822
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: high school and I haven't revisited that bit of history

823
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: again until now. And I actually didn't know all that

824
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 1: you mentioned about Santa Anna's leg Also hearing my hometown

825
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: mentioned in your podcast was amusing and kind of a

826
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: real since you rarely you're a very Vera Cruz outside

827
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,479
Speaker 1: of Mexico's news, I actually visit San Juanda Lua, which

828
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,879
Speaker 1: I always worried that I'm pronouncing terribly. That's my note,

829
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 1: fairly often since it is now a museum and one

830
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: of the tourist highlights of Vera Cruz, So every time

831
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 1: someone comes to visit me, I take them there. Uh.

832
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,760
Speaker 1: Speaking of San Juanda Alua, it would be pretty awesome

833
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: if you did a podcast of the place sometime along

834
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: with this episode. It has a lot of stories to offer.

835
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, it was first a fourth but later

836
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: it became a prison, and let me tell you, being

837
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 1: a prisoner and there must have been the worst thing

838
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: that could happen to you. When you visit now, the

839
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: tourist guide will explain to you how the prison was

840
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: divided between different levels heaven, purgatory, and hell, and each

841
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: of them was awful in its own way. The walls

842
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 1: are very thick and the cells only have a few

843
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: very tiny windows, so if you so, you didn't get

844
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 1: a lot of fresh air in there. To make it worse.

845
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: Vera Cruz has a very hot and humid tropical weather,

846
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: and this was practically at the sea, so the prison

847
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 1: cells were always full of salty water and human waste

848
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 1: from the prisoners. It was a disgusting place full of disease,

849
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: and if you add to that the tortures of the

850
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: print that the prisoners had to endure, well it is

851
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: no surprise that people didn't last very long there. It

852
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: was one of the most feared places to end up in.

853
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: It was said that no one could escape. It was

854
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: well guarded, and on top of that, there were sharks around,

855
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: so your chances of getting out in one piece we're

856
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 1: pretty much non existent. There is one urban legend, though,

857
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 1: about one man who managed to get out of San

858
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: Juanda Lua not once, but twice. His nickname was chuco

859
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: Al Roto. Again, I hope I'm saying that correctly, and

860
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: he's remembered as some sort of a Mexican Robin Hood.

861
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 1: Although we know that he definitely existed, details of how

862
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: his life ended are actually unclear, and that's why he's

863
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,919
Speaker 1: such a popular figure. Anyway, I just wanted to share

864
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: all this with you just to show how very excited

865
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 1: I was with this episode. If you didn't know this

866
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: little bit of history that I shared. I hope you

867
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: find it interesting and maybe it encourages you to put

868
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: it on the Maybe we'll do an episode on this

869
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: someday list. And if you did know, I'm sorry for

870
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 1: the long email. I did not know. I had never

871
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: heard that story before, and it does sound really fascinating,

872
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 1: so I do kind of want to look into it. Um.

873
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: Thank you Naa for like a local take on something

874
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: that we talked about in the episode. We don't always

875
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: get those, particularly when they are outside of the US,

876
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 1: so that's some cool insight into sort of that that

877
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: prison and then Fortress's place in the bigger story of

878
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: Mexican history. If you would like to write to us,

879
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: you can absolutely do that, and you should. You can

880
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: do that at History Podcast at house to works dot com.

881
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: You can connect to this on Facebook at Facebook dot

882
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 1: com slash mist in history, on Twitter at misst Industry,

883
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: at pinterest dot com, slash mist in History at misston

884
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: history dot tumbler dot com, and on Instagram at misst

885
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: in history. If you would like to visit our parent company,

886
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: you can do that. That is how stuff works dot com.

887
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: You can research almost anything you can think of there.

888
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 1: If you would like to visit us at our little

889
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 1: corner of the worldwide Web, that is, at Miston history

890
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: dot com, you will find show notes and uh an

891
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: archive of every episode that has ever happened, and the

892
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: occasional other goody, so we encourage you come visit us

893
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: at Miston history dot com and a house to works

894
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 1: dot com for more on miss thousands of other topics.

895
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com. M m mmmmm