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Speaker 1: Previously unridiculous history. I'm kidding. I just always love when

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Speaker 1: those voices come in at the beginning of something like

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Speaker 1: I lost. I was going to just chime in and

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Speaker 1: be like, what happened? I want to know I was

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Speaker 1: there and I don't even remember. Right by the way,

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Speaker 1: you're Noal, I'm Ben. We are joined with our guest

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Speaker 1: super producer Paul Decant, who has an awesome sound cue.

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Speaker 1: I love that. I love it that thing, whatever that is.

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Speaker 1: He'll get to pick out his own sound effect because

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Speaker 1: he's actually filling in for its super producer Casey Pegram

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Speaker 1: here in the spirit where the sound effect goes Paul

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Speaker 1: um and so, yeah, Paul could potentially pick out his

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Speaker 1: own sound effect. That's true, and I thought you did

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Speaker 1: on a previous episode, Paul, But we can't wait to

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Speaker 1: hear it. Wait a minute, We've we've been informed that

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Speaker 1: Paul has had a sound effect all along. Now we

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Speaker 1: knew what it sounded like. It's sort of a mission control,

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Speaker 1: you know, bleeps and bloops kind of sound effect. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very spacey. I'm just bummed that Paul isn't gonna

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Speaker 1: pick out his own sound effects. Clearly, Casey picked that

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Speaker 1: out for him. Yeah, Paul, if you want to pick

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Speaker 1: your own sound effect, you completely have agency. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: having you know, I think he should. You know, I

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Speaker 1: think we should chuck case he's not around, screw him,

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Speaker 1: you know, just chuck it out. How dare you who?

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Speaker 1: I have feelings Casey abandoned us for France. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: Casey is living his other life and we'll return across

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Speaker 1: the pond. It's his best life. Also, he is going

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Speaker 1: to be back, so we need to be careful what

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Speaker 1: we say about it. I don't want to angry Casey.

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Speaker 1: He's not gonna hear these. He doesn't even edit him.

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Speaker 1: He's like, I don't think he listens to the show.

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Speaker 1: Might he might go back and just to see if

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Speaker 1: we talk any trash? Hey, Casey, thanks for doing and

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Speaker 1: uh and if if he hasn't listened, Fellow ridiculous historians,

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Speaker 1: do not snitch on us. We're being very serious. But

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Speaker 1: in our continuing streak of telling uh spooky or tales,

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Speaker 1: as we get closer and closer to Halloween, nol, you

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Speaker 1: and I have touched on some gruesome practices such as cannibalism,

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Speaker 1: and we've touched on legends of monsters, but today we're

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Speaker 1: looking at real life monsters. Yeah, I mean, says you, Okay, alright, yes,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about serial killers. And it is true that

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Speaker 1: in the US often serial killers are given this kind

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Speaker 1: of infamy. They're almost like there's something that's occasionally celebrated

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Speaker 1: about them, which is terrible. Yeah, especially and like you

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Speaker 1: know in our industry, the podcast world, where it's like

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Speaker 1: we're just up to our ears and true crime stories. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I'm actually working on a true crime story right now.

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Speaker 1: That is a little different. It's not so much celebrating

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Speaker 1: the idea of the serial killer. It's a little bit

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Speaker 1: more of looking at what it means to be human,

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Speaker 1: what it means to have these impulses, or to what

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Speaker 1: the obsession with serial killers actually means to us as

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Speaker 1: a culture, Like why is it so fascinating? My theory is, uh,

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Speaker 1: that it makes us feel better about ourselves. It makes

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Speaker 1: us really, well, I'm not I'm at least I'm not

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Speaker 1: that crazy. At least I've never actually murdered multiple people

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Speaker 1: and one of these yeah right, I'm not that bad. Uh.

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Speaker 1: One of the factors in this almost deification at times

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Speaker 1: is certainly the question that people end up asking themselves,

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Speaker 1: would I be someone capable of this? Have? Could I

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Speaker 1: understand that mentality? And it's it's a deep and dark question.

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Speaker 1: But luckily we're not We're not going too far into

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Speaker 1: the psychology of that that kind of process on today's show.

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Speaker 1: All the we do want to hear what you think

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Speaker 1: about it. Feel free to write in We're ridiculous houstuf

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Speaker 1: works dot com today. Instead, we're delving into a question

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Speaker 1: that has personally, just speak for myself here, personally haunted

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Speaker 1: me for a while, and that is this who was

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Speaker 1: the world's first serial killer? Yeah? I actually googled this,

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Speaker 1: ben um like you do when you're when you're trying

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Speaker 1: to find things out. That's what we've been reduced to

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Speaker 1: is professional googlers. You know, I don't even know how

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Speaker 1: to use a card catalog. I go to the library,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I lived next door to a library.

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Speaker 1: You go there, Yeah, I go there, you go in there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love libraries. You like libraries to I'm kidding, I

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Speaker 1: know how to use the card catalog. Point being, I

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Speaker 1: googled first serial killer like I'm doing right now, in

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Speaker 1: a name that commonly pops up as a guy named

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Speaker 1: Herman Webster mudget Um known as H. H. Holmes, and

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Speaker 1: he is considered on paper at least to be the

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Speaker 1: first American serial killer. Right, But the story we have

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Speaker 1: today is not about your mudget It's about a lady

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Speaker 1: serial killer. Yes, And the notion of the serial killer

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Speaker 1: name um is divisive, and I think there's an issue

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Speaker 1: with maybe calling this person this person was more of

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Speaker 1: an assassin, really, yes, more of a poisoner. I do

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Speaker 1: want to stuff though, because you mentioned H. S. Holmes.

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Speaker 1: There's an amazing book if you haven't read it yet,

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Speaker 1: The Devil in the White City by Eric Larson. White

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Speaker 1: City being Chicago. Yeah. H. H. Holmes built a murder house. Gruesome,

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Speaker 1: grim and gory stuff. But you're right, no, that's there's

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Speaker 1: a question about what makes someone a serial killer. And

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Speaker 1: we've looked into this and previous episodes on other shows.

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Speaker 1: This person, Locusta of gall was a poisoner. She wasn't

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Speaker 1: out there, you know, sneaking up behind people and cutting

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Speaker 1: their throats. But one could argue because of the benefits

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Speaker 1: that she enjoyed with the protections that we're going to

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Speaker 1: get into of that she experience, ants that she may

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Speaker 1: well have fallen into a pattern where she just kind

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Speaker 1: of did it for lulls. Yeah, yeah, definitely not a

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Speaker 1: mentally healthy person. So this this occurs in the first

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Speaker 1: century a d. We don't know a ton of stuff.

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Speaker 1: We don't know very much at all about Locusta's early

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Speaker 1: life other than that she was from Gaul, because that's

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Speaker 1: what people called her. Locusta from Gaul. Maybe there were

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Speaker 1: a ton of other Locustas and there was like Locusta

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Speaker 1: from Rome, Lacousta from Gaul. Maybe maybe that's how they differentiate.

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Speaker 1: But Gall itself was where northern Italy and the Alps are,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's got three geographical regions around the time

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Speaker 1: this happened. What I'm saying is it's a big place.

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Speaker 1: It's France now, right, France, and then uh, northern Italy.

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Speaker 1: So we bring this point up to say that knowing

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Speaker 1: just that she is from Gaul all doesn't really help us, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: what we do sort of know about her though, is

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Speaker 1: that she grew up uh living off the land as

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Speaker 1: it were, or at least in terms of like some

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Speaker 1: of the the species of plants that were available in

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Speaker 1: that region. Um. She was an active forager and kind

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Speaker 1: of got herself real familiar with some of the uses

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Speaker 1: of some of these herbs and flowers and various things

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Speaker 1: that could be used for good or for ill. There

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Speaker 1: we go in like that traumatic note, yes so or

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Speaker 1: for ill or for yeah? Yeah yeah good, Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: got it. So this person living off the land has

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Speaker 1: a encyclopedic knowledge of the different plants that grow in

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Speaker 1: the area and the different medicinal or nefarious uses of

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Speaker 1: these plants. People recognize talents, and there was an empress

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Speaker 1: named Agrippina the younger who noticed that Lucusta had as

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Speaker 1: leave nice would say a certain set of skills, and

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Speaker 1: Acousta at this point was already pretty notorious. Yeah, how

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Speaker 1: did her reputation precede her? That it made it up

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Speaker 1: to such high levels of government and like influencers or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Ben Well, they stopped calling her Locusta from Gaul and

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Speaker 1: started calling her Locusta the Poisoner. That became her new name.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't she also Locusta the Sorcerer at some point? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's a woman of many names. Um crazy. So she

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Speaker 1: was already kind of like doing little hits early on

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Speaker 1: and even getting arrested. I believe she was she was

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Speaker 1: imprisoned when Agrippina approached her in a D fifty four

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Speaker 1: and Agrippina had a particular job for her. She said, Locusta,

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Speaker 1: I want you to poison my husband Claudius. Oh real quick.

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Speaker 1: There's an amazing name given to her profession that combines

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Speaker 1: her like, you know, knowledge and know how with herbs

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Speaker 1: and their uses, with this idea of being an assassin

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Speaker 1: necro entrepreneur. Oh yeah, and this was coined, maybe not coined,

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Speaker 1: but used in this particular situation by Dr Catherine Ramsland,

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Speaker 1: who is a PhD in psychology. Yeah, there's First off,

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Speaker 1: that's that's my favorite phrase we've learned recently. And people

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Speaker 1: did in a way respect this person's abilities. There were

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Speaker 1: multiple poisoners in the area in ancient Rome at the time,

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Speaker 1: but Locusto was by far one of the most well

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Speaker 1: known and notorious. We're also going to get into why,

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Speaker 1: because it wasn't just that she You know, anyone can

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Speaker 1: slip somebody some poison or just like make poison or

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Speaker 1: find it used to buy it, right, um, But she

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Speaker 1: was very widely and clever and crafty. And then we'll

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Speaker 1: get into the next story involving her employee under Agrippina,

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Speaker 1: that becomes infinitely clear. There's an excellent paper I found

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Speaker 1: called Poisons, Poisoning and the Drug Trade in Ancient Rome

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Speaker 1: by L. Sillier's and FP. Retief at the University of

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Speaker 1: the Free State, and in this they give us some

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Speaker 1: more details about exactly how Locusta came to be in

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Speaker 1: the employee of Agrippina. So she had been convicted of

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Speaker 1: multiple crimes during the reign of Cloudius. She was a

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Speaker 1: known repeat defender. She was bad medicine, which I guess

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Speaker 1: works on a couple of levels. But let's keep going. Agrippina,

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Speaker 1: you see, was the second wife of Cloudius, and she

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Speaker 1: had a son named Nero, who I am sure is

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Speaker 1: familiar to a lot of ridiculous historians. Yeah. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was the name of that app he used to used

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Speaker 1: to burn CDs back in the early two thousands. Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: deep cut Nero. Yeah, it's because But but the reason

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Speaker 1: it was named that is because Nero was a bit

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Speaker 1: of a pyromaniac and he was known for burning Rome

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Speaker 1: to the ground to some degree while playing a fiddle.

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Speaker 1: There's another story that we're gonna get to that allegedly happened. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it's fun to talk about, you know, legend and

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Speaker 1: myth can sometimes you more interesting than the truth? Yeah, yes, agreed.

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Speaker 1: So as we were saying, Agrippino wants her son Nero

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Speaker 1: to be the new ruler, and she has like a

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Speaker 1: lot yeah, like yes, a life or death sort of desire,

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Speaker 1: and she asked Locusta to poison Uh, let's see, I

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Speaker 1: was saying, cloud Us, let's see Claudius. That sounds good,

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Speaker 1: and she did it with uh. It was almost like

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Speaker 1: a heist because, as you can imagine, this guy has

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Speaker 1: a lot of security tasters. Even he's got a food

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Speaker 1: taster named Holitus. So how what does she do? How

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Speaker 1: does she get past this? Do you think that's where

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Speaker 1: how atosis comes from? We can only hope. I want

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Speaker 1: I was wondering the same thing. Yes, so she like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, how did how did she exactly circumvent talitis?

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Speaker 1: It was a little weird, like she did she bribe

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Speaker 1: him to kind of get out of the way. Is

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Speaker 1: that what happen? So the way she gets past this

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Speaker 1: is through the use of poison mushrooms, which originally are

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Speaker 1: given to the emperor by his food taster. But that

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Speaker 1: doesn't quite work. Right, I don't think so. Yeah. So, um,

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Speaker 1: I I read that that she um, Agrippina bribed this

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Speaker 1: food taster to kind of get him out of the picture,

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Speaker 1: and then um gave the mushrooms to her husband herself,

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Speaker 1: because apparently he was like a huge mushroom fan. He

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Speaker 1: really really liked the shrooms. I can relate to that.

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Speaker 1: And some people, some people will say that or some

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Speaker 1: sources at least will report that the closest aid the

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Speaker 1: food taster was sick, and then others will say know

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Speaker 1: Ain dribed him tom linger. Either way, he wasn't around,

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Speaker 1: and the mushrooms went directly into the hands of Claudius,

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Speaker 1: who was apparently a lethal drunk um and he did

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Speaker 1: not kill him, but it made him convolves violently and

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Speaker 1: have really bad tummy troubles, right, And so they wanted

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Speaker 1: to induce vomiting, right, that's right. So um, one source

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Speaker 1: that I read has Agrippina herself feigning concern for her,

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Speaker 1: you know, convulsing husband and and daintily sticking this poison

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Speaker 1: feather down his throat, because that was a thing they

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Speaker 1: would use a feather to to induce vomiting and stick

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Speaker 1: it down your throat and tickle your your gullet or

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Speaker 1: whatever and then make you puke up the bad stuff.

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Speaker 1: But instead this feather was laced with an even deadlier poison.

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Speaker 1: Oh you know what, let me step back just a

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Speaker 1: second to clarify here. I think I've got the turn

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Speaker 1: of events correct. So the day before the poison, Locusta

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Speaker 1: poisons the bodyguard, and the bodyguard has to call out sick,

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Speaker 1: and then Agrippina bribes the food taster, so they removed

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Speaker 1: two people from the She's thinking several steps ahead of

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Speaker 1: even us four D track podcasters. So dies because the

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Speaker 1: feather has been poisoned. It's soaked in strychnine. Right, And

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, immediately after the death of this emperor,

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Speaker 1: Nero ascends to the throne and they recognize that Locusta

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Speaker 1: she has a lot of potential, especially if you are

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Speaker 1: a power hungry emperor. Right. And there's an interesting pattern

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Speaker 1: that transpires here, because we mentioned she had been arrested

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Speaker 1: more than once, multiple times. Twice she was arrested for murder,

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Speaker 1: but each time she was arrested, a Roman senator bailed

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Speaker 1: her out. People speculate it was kind of a way

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Speaker 1: of buying a future kill. Absolutely, she had friends in

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Speaker 1: high places, no question about it. Um. But the thing

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Speaker 1: that's messed up here is that Agrippina, who obviously it

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Speaker 1: was trying to set these events in motion and get

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Speaker 1: her boy Nero in the throne. She immediately threw Lacusta

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Speaker 1: under the bus. Immediately, she immediately said she poisoned my husband.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if that was like a strategic mootally that's

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Speaker 1: what they call getting in front of getting ahead of it.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, but I wonder if it was really like

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Speaker 1: Locusta was in on it, maybe where it's like, all right,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna take the fall for this because I'm already

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Speaker 1: a known poisoner, or if she just was caught completely unaware,

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Speaker 1: whatever the case might be. Um Nero, who is now

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Speaker 1: a power hungry looney tune on his own, um, because

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Speaker 1: Agrippina has really been jockeying for this stuff and trying

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Speaker 1: to manipulate events, and now she's got what she wanted

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Speaker 1: more or less. But Nero, it doesn't seem like he's

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Speaker 1: acquiescing to his his mother anymore. He's kind of got

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Speaker 1: his own acts to grind in the form of another

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Speaker 1: potential heir to the throne, a fourteen year old who

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Speaker 1: Claudius had given that's sired under a previous marriage, named

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Speaker 1: Britannicus right right, and Locusta is in a terrible spot

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Speaker 1: because the death sentence she receives is death by bloodgeoning.

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Speaker 1: And by the time Nero reaches out to her, she's

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Speaker 1: been in jail for several months. Here's the deal, he

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Speaker 1: cracks in about or so he frees Lacusta, the poisoner

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Speaker 1: at this point from prison. He gives her a bunch

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Speaker 1: of money, he gives her some land, and he says

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Speaker 1: he's gonna make her an aristocrat, publicly absolved of all

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Speaker 1: crimes she has committed or will ever commit. And all

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Speaker 1: she has to do is poison this fourteen year old.

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Speaker 1: Britannicus is fourteen years old. All she has to do

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Speaker 1: is poison this child. And reputedly allegedly, Acousta had one question.

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Speaker 1: She said, do you want it to be fast or

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Speaker 1: do you want it to be extended and painful? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing monstrous about like at all. That's her concern

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Speaker 1: about poison your fourteen year old fast or protracted and painful?

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Speaker 1: Just like, look, I work for you now, Nero. So

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Speaker 1: the story. Know, some of the details may differ here, NOL,

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Speaker 1: but here's here's what I heard. I heard that Nero

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Speaker 1: invited this fourteen year old Britannicus, which again I like

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Speaker 1: the name, to a huge party one of the palaces,

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Speaker 1: and they were passing around wine. Fourteen year olds drank

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Speaker 1: wine at that time, and uh, Britannicus takes his sip

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Speaker 1: from his wine goblet and then starts a convulsive Is

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Speaker 1: this the one though? Where like he had complained the

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Speaker 1: wine was this is good? Oh yeah, this is the one.

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Speaker 1: So apparently, back in those days, they would dilute wine

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Speaker 1: with hot water, so you'd be drinking hot wine. Um,

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Speaker 1: that does not sound very refreshing with dinner. That was

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Speaker 1: common and I was not aware of this at all.

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Speaker 1: And apparently Britannicus found his hot wine to be too hot,

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Speaker 1: so he wanted somebody to cool it on down for him.

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Speaker 1: And the tasters tasted his hot wine, they did not

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Speaker 1: taste the cold water that was added to it to

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Speaker 1: make it less hot. And that's of course where the

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Speaker 1: poison came into play again. Very very's, very very sharp,

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Speaker 1: very smart. Hot wine is just such a weird phrase.

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Speaker 1: Would would you guys like that on a T shirt.

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Speaker 1: Mulled wine because you had some herbs. It's the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Hot wine. Sounds like the wine has gone bad. Here's

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Speaker 1: another interesting aspect of this story. Apparently britannic Is might

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Speaker 1: have had epilepsy, so Nero was able to say, no, no,

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Speaker 1: don't mess with him, he's having an epileptic fit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And apparently, like dinner went on as usual, with the

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Speaker 1: guests just kind of like awkwardly looking at this convulsive

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Speaker 1: fourteen year old in the corner of the room and

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Speaker 1: not wanting to offend the psychotic emperor. Just when about

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Speaker 1: their business, drinking their hot wine, drinking their hot wine.

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Speaker 1: And it is a success. So instead of accusing Acousta

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Speaker 1: of murdering Britannicus the way Agrippina did, Nero says, you know,

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Speaker 1: all right, done deal, here's your here's your land, here's

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Speaker 1: your house, and measures treasures, pardons for all of the

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Speaker 1: previous poison things that she'd been accused of or convicted

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Speaker 1: of or what have you, clearing her name, impunity, indemnity,

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Speaker 1: and little cherry on top here uh an official title

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Speaker 1: Imperial Poisoner. Nero even sets up a poisoning school. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, and she was the head. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: That's so brazen though, It's like I wouldn't think that's

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Speaker 1: something you would. Maybe it is. Maybe it's sort of like, hey,

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Speaker 1: look at me, I got my own poison or no

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Speaker 1: mess with me kind of thing. I guess. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like how much of it is a propaganda thing? But

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Speaker 1: check this out. For the next four teen years, she

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Speaker 1: is performing assassinations and poison poison what what would you

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Speaker 1: call poison operations poison projects. Yeah, she's doing that and

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Speaker 1: she has immunity from the law. She's above the law.

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Speaker 1: And she did she she did train women in the

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Speaker 1: art of poisoning at her school. We talked about this

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Speaker 1: in the episode we did on like a brief History

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Speaker 1: of poisoning or arsenic. I believe it's very gendered. It's

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Speaker 1: very gendered, and almost unfairly so. It became like a

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Speaker 1: stereotype that was a little bit like like the idea

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Speaker 1: of that being like a woman's weapon or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think a little bit misogynistic. It's incredibly misogynistic. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So she used over time a ton of different things, hemlock, belladonna, nightshade, arsenic. Uh,

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Speaker 1: what's what's this stuff you used to treat malaria queenin Yeah, uh,

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Speaker 1: cyanide opium. Cyanide is a speculative thing. But the other

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Speaker 1: stuff we know pretty much for sure. And she practiced

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Speaker 1: the scientific method. She would keep track of what worked

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Speaker 1: and how, which is why she asked questions like do

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Speaker 1: you want a painful slow death? Do you want something fast? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean I've almost seem seen her described as something

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Speaker 1: of a researcher, like, you know, practicing that scientific method,

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Speaker 1: trial and error, seeing what would have the effects that

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Speaker 1: she wanted and what would be the best substance to

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Speaker 1: use for particular situation. I'm sure she had tons of

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Speaker 1: notes and data on this stuff. Would be fascinating to

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Speaker 1: get ahold of. Absolutely. Yeah, So we have to wonder

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Speaker 1: is that stuff lost the history? Is its still around somewhere?

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Speaker 1: Would would you want to read it? If it is?

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Speaker 1: We can say that although life went pretty well for

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Speaker 1: this arch villain for a while, it did not end

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Speaker 1: well for her. See, Nero always carried this is so cornel.

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Speaker 1: Nero always carried a suicide poison kit that Locusta had

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Speaker 1: made for him, and when he was sentenced to death

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Speaker 1: in and trying to escape his assassins, he forgot his

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Speaker 1: suicide poison kit, so he killed himself with a knife,

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Speaker 1: and the protection that Locusta had enjoyed for so long

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Speaker 1: was gone. Yeah, and uh, with that her her prospects

357
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 1: were looking so good because she was very much tied

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Speaker 1: to this notion of Nero, very similar to Caligula we

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Speaker 1: talked about in the episode we did with Chris Rostiotes

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Speaker 1: about non human candidates. Where Caligula the other insane I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there was more than one, but the another

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Speaker 1: insane Roman emperor of note nominated his horse to be

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Speaker 1: a console um when he died, a lot of his

364
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Speaker 1: crazy stuff and the people, his hangers on, you know,

365
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Speaker 1: did not look too good and did not have the

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Speaker 1: protection they needed to continue living the lives that they

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Speaker 1: were living, such as the case with Lacusta, because the

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Speaker 1: people saw Nero as a dangerous force, as a most monster,

369
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Speaker 1: a completely narcissistic, self involved megalomaniac who didn't care anything

370
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Speaker 1: about the common people and only wanted to like, you know,

371
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Speaker 1: feed his lavish lifestyle and again actually burned part of Rome.

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Speaker 1: Do you know the story about that, I'm not. Well,

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Speaker 1: here's here's how the story started. There um the Great

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Speaker 1: Fire of Rome, which is what that refers to. That

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Speaker 1: that myth of him playing a violin while the city burned,

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Speaker 1: it comes from two people, Setonius and Cassius Dio, who

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Speaker 1: alleged that Nero didn't didn't play a fiddle, but that

378
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Speaker 1: he sang a song called the Sack of Ilium dressed

379
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Speaker 1: in stage like theater costumes while the city burned, And

380
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: the idea of him playing a fiddle itself is propaganda.

381
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: It's meant to help criticize Nero's earlier attempts to rewrite

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Speaker 1: the Augustine models of governance and rulership. So it's kind

383
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: of like Napoleon not really being short, that's right. And

384
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Speaker 1: then the Great Fire they were blaming. It's not even

385
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: hunters and confirmed, but many historians do blame, or at

386
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: least one in particular, a guy named Tacitus blamed Nero

387
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Speaker 1: for starting a fire in order to circumvent the Roman

388
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Speaker 1: sentence and to create like a hubbub so that he

389
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Speaker 1: could you know, usurt power and do whatever you want

390
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: and being a total class act. Tacitus, like you said

391
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Speaker 1: that Nero accused Christians of starting the fire to take

392
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Speaker 1: the heat off them, sort of like a like mother

393
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Speaker 1: like son kind of thing, sort of a we didn't

394
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: start the fire, it was always burning since the world

395
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: was turning. Yeah. Absolutely. Now the death of Locusta also,

396
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Speaker 1: I want to I want to correct. I think we

397
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: said for the death of Nero. That's that's not quite correct.

398
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 1: It was in the late sixties A d Locusta. When

399
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: get to her death, we run full on, phase first

400
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: into the realm of legend we have. We've got two

401
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: stories for you of a tall tale, A bit of

402
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 1: a it's a long tail, for sure. It's a short

403
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 1: story with a long tail along neck really a long

404
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: neck really. So the first one, one of the more

405
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 1: commonly accepted, the more mundane stories, is that uh Locusta

406
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Speaker 1: had tried to escape or lay low and continue getting

407
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: away with her murderous career, but the emperor who came

408
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: after Nero, Emperor Galba uh was was not having it,

409
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Speaker 1: and Locusta was chained up and dragged through the street

410
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Speaker 1: and then just executed. But there's another legend. Yeah, it's

411
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Speaker 1: a totally bonkers legend. It can't be true. I don't know,

412
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how you would even trainage your aff

413
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: to do this, right, But I did hear um and

414
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: this is a little gross, guys. Um, this is very gross. Yeah, supposedly,

415
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: you know, according to this particular version of her demise,

416
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Speaker 1: Acusta was smeared with vaginal secretions from a giraffe, a

417
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: female giraffe, and then um and then died as a

418
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Speaker 1: result of the activity, the ensuing activity from a male

419
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Speaker 1: giraffe who was trained to do this thing. So the

420
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Speaker 1: good news is that is we can say with a

421
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: high degree of certainty that that that probably didn't just logistically, man,

422
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't see happen, but it's definitely it's

423
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 1: in the record. It's it's a it's it's a it's

424
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: a legend for sure, and then torn apart by wild

425
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: animal and I can't forget that that that's that's huge.

426
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: But that's part of the whole thing. So we looked

427
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: into this where this claim would originate, and this kind

428
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 1: of stuff like its surfaces in the Encyclopedia of Serial

429
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: Killers by guy named Michael Newton, at least in the

430
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: first version. But there's no precise date of death, there's

431
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: no precise location, there's there's not really in confirmation that

432
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 1: has happened. And when we talk about stories of people

433
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: living in this time, especially people who had a lot

434
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: of enemies, there's a ton of propaganda. There are a

435
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: ton of made up things that were meant to ridicule,

436
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: mock or vilify a particular person right or event, or

437
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: government or institution. And the moral of the story is

438
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: I guess that eventually justice did catch up with Locusta.

439
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 1: Is she history's first documented serial killer? Well, it depends

440
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: on how you define it, because they the term serial

441
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 1: killer didn't exist at the time. And then you know,

442
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: if she's doing this as a job, she's essentially doing

443
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: hits on people. Does that make all mafia or yakuza assassins?

444
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: Does that make them serial killers? Are they just people

445
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: doing a job for monetary game? That's the thing. And

446
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: we also don't know because of how uh free to

447
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: go about her Mary poisoning way she was if she

448
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 1: didn't kind of get off on her a little bit,

449
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: um get get some jollies from it, right, because the

450
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: definition of a serial killer that we used today largely

451
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: um implies some kind of abnormal release I guess that

452
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: you get from doing it, or some kind of like

453
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: you're compelled to do it, certainly, not just a functional

454
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: day job kind of situation, right, yeah, absolutely, And I

455
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: don't know. It's it's comforting to me that eventually justice

456
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: was served, but it is terrifying to think that someone

457
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: could be acting with impunity, literally above the law and

458
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: have it been known thing. I'm sure there are different

459
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: operators for different countries intelligence agencies who do stuff like this,

460
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: who are you know, legally required at times to take lives?

461
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: But this to be so blatant is surprising. And if

462
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: if even even some of this stuff is true, this

463
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: person was a monster, a real monster in the fourteen

464
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: year old boy poisoning where nobody would help him as

465
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: he kicked and screamed and convulsed on the floor during

466
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: a dinner party. Horrific. That's pretty horrific. So that that

467
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: is the story of Locusta. And and one thing that

468
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:42,239
Speaker 1: we are running into with our Halloweenie or Halloween Ish

469
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: episodes is, uh, is this strange thing at the end

470
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: where we get to we get to the conclusion of

471
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: a tale and it's a real downer. We went through

472
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: something dark and grim. We've got to bring the mood

473
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: up Noel, there's only one way to do it, and

474
00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: I think you know what it is. Boy do I? Ever?

475
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: It's listener Mail Ben, and our first mail comes from

476
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: a Umi who writes, Hello, Historians. I'm listening to your

477
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: episode A Dead Pope goes to court and you were

478
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: wondering about mock accents and other English speaking places. Now

479
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm Americans, so I don't know firsthand, but much like

480
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: with other foreign languages, a lot of English textbooks explore

481
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: and show examples of English and different accents, up to

482
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: and including foreign accents. I have one textbook that I

483
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: use with high level English as foreign language speakers. That

484
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: that's from the UK, and the listening features conversations and monologues.

485
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: They want to showcase many accents. However, for me, it's

486
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: incredibly obvious that all the voices are being done by

487
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: English people who are putting on accents, and they do

488
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: include that Italian accent with a character actually named a

489
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: Mario uh, and over the top Spanish accent for a

490
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: character asking a friend if he would like more PAA.

491
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: I know it's something Americans do professionally too, so we're

492
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: no better. But I thought you might like to know

493
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: about that cheers, Umi, that's all. That's great. Thank you

494
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: for thank you for writing in. You've written in a

495
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: couple of times. We always love to hear from you.

496
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: And we want to be very clear here that whenever

497
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: we're doing of course it should go without saying, but

498
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: let's say it, whenever we are doing uh funny voices

499
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: or accents, we're we're absolutely not trying to be derogatory

500
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: at all. We just we sometimes think we're funny. We're

501
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: not even we're not even really uh so much making

502
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: fun of Richard Nixon as we are enjoying doing that

503
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: voice making fun of ourselves. Because if you can't do that,

504
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: then you know, what good are you? Exactly if you

505
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: can't laugh at yourself. Uh, here's a speaking of however,

506
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: there's a good segue speaking speaking of uh being derogatory

507
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: or using pejorative language. We'd like to read a short

508
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: and sweet letter from Aaron m. Aaron, you write in

509
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: and gave us and you give us some nicknames here

510
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: you say Vito, Ben and null Sapien. I think you

511
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: all should do a segment on ridiculous historical insults. I

512
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: thought you'd find the link but comical and entertaining. This

513
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: is from Aaron in Chicago, and there are some great

514
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: insults in this in this sourci sentence from Oxford. I

515
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: don't know if you have pulled this up or got

516
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: a chance to look at it. But there's a flibberty

517
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: gibbet flippity gibbet. Is it jibby because it's in uh,

518
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: it's in a song from the Sound of Music, um

519
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: called nobody has a problem, like Marie, how do you

520
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: solve a problem? Like? It's like a flippity gibbet, a

521
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: with of the wisp, A clown, yeah, a chattering or

522
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: gossiping person. And then there's a foozle. Now that's one.

523
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: I don't know what I love. It sounds like it

524
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: sounds like something from like a Dr SEUs book. Someone

525
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: who's behind the times, a foozl, a foozel. There's celebbrity gullion,

526
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: a slobbery or dirty fellow, okay, kind of soiled or stained.

527
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: There's this one sounds dirty. It's not a curse word,

528
00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: but just sounds dirty. Shot clog, like a shot clog

529
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: is someone who's unwelcome in a social situation but tolerated

530
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: because he's paying the bill for everyone. He's a shot clog,

531
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: and I don't want to spoil the surprise with more. Uh,

532
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: Suffice to say, Aaron, thank you so much for sending

533
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: us some of these cool, archaic, ridiculous historical insults. Do

534
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: did you hear anything that particularly called to you? No?

535
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: Not on that email. I actually haven't seen it. I okay,

536
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: I need to dig it up now because I am intrigued. Well,

537
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: thank you to Aaron and a Umi, and thank you

538
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: to everyone for joining us on this strange journey. Huge

539
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: shout out to our guests, super producer Paul Deckett, and

540
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: even though he's abandoned us, he's still give a shout

541
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: out to Casey and Absentia, and also to Alex Williams

542
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: who composed our theme. And thanks to our research associates

543
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: Eve's Jeff Cote and Christopher hassi Urs and you know,

544
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: thanks to you, Ben, and thanks to you Nol. I

545
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: was looking at you. Thanks to both of us for

546
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: not poisoning people for a living. I think podcasting, while

547
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: not the most noble of professions, is better than being

548
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: a poisoner, right, how dare you? It's as no, it's

549
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: as noble as it gets. It's better than poisoning people,

550
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: We're getting people through their shifts, man. Yeah, that's the ticket,

551
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: or night shifts, for their day shifts or you know

552
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: whatever shift, their shifting shifts. Indeed,