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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Katie Lamber and I'm Sarah Dowdy. And one of

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Speaker 1: our absolute favorite podcasts was What Happened to Cleopatra's Children.

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Speaker 1: We chose it because we really like Cleopatra and Jubatu,

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Speaker 1: and Jubatu because he's our our favorite historical personage, um.

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Speaker 1: But we also chose it because we wanted to learn

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Speaker 1: more about Cleopatra's personal life and that of her children.

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Speaker 1: But consequently we learned a little bit about her struggle

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Speaker 1: against Rome too, and she is not the only woman

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Speaker 1: who stood up to Rome. Another woman who has as

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Speaker 1: our subject for today's podcast, and I'll let really in

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Speaker 1: give her introduction with this quote, how Ozenobia has thou

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Speaker 1: dared to insult Roman emperors? And how indeed so? A

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Speaker 1: little bit about who she was. She was the third

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Speaker 1: century queen of Palmyra, which today as Syria, and she

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Speaker 1: was a warrior queen. She conquered again and again until

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Speaker 1: she came up against Aurelian. She also styled herself like Cleopatra,

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Speaker 1: who she viewed somewhat as a role model, and did

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Speaker 1: a lot of building her own legend in her own time.

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Speaker 1: There are all these stories about her, you know, about

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Speaker 1: her being this gorgeous woman with her dark brown skin

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Speaker 1: and her pearly white teeth. But she was someone who

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Speaker 1: could drink with the boys and also used sex as

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Speaker 1: a weapon within the bounds of her marriage. So of

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Speaker 1: course this kind of woman gets written about. Picaccio and

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Speaker 1: Chaucer right about her. Chaucer mentions her in the Monk's Tale.

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Speaker 1: So a little bit about who she is. Zenobia has

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Speaker 1: two names in Latin, it's septimmy as Zenobia and an

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Speaker 1: Aramaic it's abouts Aby. She was Arab, but she may

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Speaker 1: also have been Aramian, and some have said she was

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Speaker 1: Jewish because she treated the Jews of Alexandria well. But

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Speaker 1: other historians have made a point, like Antonia Fraser, that

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Speaker 1: that says a lot about Jews in history and their

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Speaker 1: persecution if you assume just because someone was nice enough

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Speaker 1: to be people, they must have been part of the group.

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Speaker 1: So Zenobia's mother may have been Egyptian. Her father was

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Speaker 1: definitely a wealthy, educated Arab merchant aristocrat, and we've mentioned

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Speaker 1: Cleopatra a few times now. Zenobia wanted to be like Cleopatra.

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Speaker 1: She's her role model. She says she's descended from her

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Speaker 1: by Juba to of course Um, she probably isn't, but

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Speaker 1: she's still just seizes on this potential ancestor to align

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Speaker 1: herself with and should kind of put herself in that mole.

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Speaker 1: And just as Cleopatra tries to align herself with Isis,

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Speaker 1: the goddess isis Um, Zenobia has this more modern version.

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Speaker 1: So we should talk a little bit more about Palmyra

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Speaker 1: and what this kingdom is that she has. It's also

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Speaker 1: non invites more ancient named Todd Moore at the city

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Speaker 1: and then the third century BC is when it became important,

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Speaker 1: and that's because of the city's location in relation to trade.

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Speaker 1: It's between the Deterranean and the Euphrates on an oasis,

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Speaker 1: so it was linked by caravan routes to Phoenicia and

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Speaker 1: Mysa and Damascus, so it's really linking Mesopotamia to the

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Speaker 1: East here and as far as trade goes, it's a

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Speaker 1: good place to be. Camels, another favorite topic of pot

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Speaker 1: are bringing in silk and jade from China. Spices and

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Speaker 1: ebony are coming in from India, and these wealthy merchant

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Speaker 1: aristocrats who live there are oftentimes patrons of the art

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Speaker 1: as well. In a D one fourteen, Palmyra is technically

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Speaker 1: part of the Roman Empire, but Hadrian gave them a

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Speaker 1: lot of freedom, even let them levy their own municipal taxes,

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Speaker 1: which was a big deal. And Palmyra is valuable to

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Speaker 1: the Roman Empire because it connects them to the east,

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Speaker 1: and also because of their military prowess. The Palmarian archers

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Speaker 1: were considered pretty amazing and the Romans were hoping to

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Speaker 1: use them against the Parthians. So Palmira eventually becomes a colony,

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Speaker 1: so they get an even better deal than they have

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Speaker 1: and again more freedom from Rome. And Rome puts Zenobia's

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Speaker 1: husband on nat Or odin Athis maybe in charge um

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Speaker 1: and they're too busy dealing with the Goths. The Roman

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Speaker 1: emperors are too busy, right, so they want someone else

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Speaker 1: who's watching over the eastern provinces for them while they're

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Speaker 1: fighting battles on their other borders, and Odonais does the

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Speaker 1: empire of service. The Emperor Valerian has been defeated, captured

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Speaker 1: and killed in a gory way by King Support of Persia,

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Speaker 1: and say he was forced to swallow molten gold and

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Speaker 1: it looks like Persia is going to take over these

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Speaker 1: eastern provinces, but odan Athis manages to repel them. However,

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Speaker 1: he is assassinated in two sixty six or two sixty seven,

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Speaker 1: as is his heir from his first marriage. So who

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Speaker 1: killed them? That's our big question here. This guy's at

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Speaker 1: the height of his glory and he's assassinated. There's a

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Speaker 1: good reason to believe it could have been Zenobia because

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Speaker 1: next in line for the throne is her kid, Babalathus Athenodorus.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry if I mispronouncing that, which is entirely likely,

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Speaker 1: and then she would be regent for him. Or it

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Speaker 1: could also have been the Romans, who may not have

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Speaker 1: been happy with this self styled king taking over large

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Speaker 1: parts of their empire and who's getting quite proud of

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Speaker 1: himself too. So Zenobia becomes region and immediately attacks Egypt.

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Speaker 1: Rome is busy again fighting the golfs, and in two

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Speaker 1: sixty nine she's conquered most of Egypt and the next

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Speaker 1: most of Syria, and by two seventies she's into Asia Minor.

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Speaker 1: So Palmyra now goes from Egypt to the Bosphorus, including Syria, Mesopotamia, Palestine,

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Speaker 1: in Northern Arabia, Egypt, and a big part of Asia Minor.

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Speaker 1: She's controlling this huge amount of territory in all of

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Speaker 1: the trade routes that go through it, which is the

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Speaker 1: really crucial thing here. Rome totally depends on Egypt for corn,

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Speaker 1: So if you have Zenobia shedding you out of Egypt,

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Speaker 1: you're you're in a mess of rubble. So this is

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Speaker 1: bad news for Rome, but again they're dealing with other

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Speaker 1: things on other fronts. They don't have the time or

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Speaker 1: the energy to devote to Zenobia until she declares that

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Speaker 1: she is independent from Rome, she's no longer a part

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Speaker 1: of their empire, and in two seventy one she has

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Speaker 1: money made with her and her son's image, which it's

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Speaker 1: basically just a declaration of war. Reminds me again of

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Speaker 1: Cleopatra too, oh exactly. So, the Palm Marines go to

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Speaker 1: the oracles to find out about the future of their empire,

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Speaker 1: and it does not go well, to say the very least.

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Speaker 1: The oracle at Apollo Sarpidonius tells them their inquiries basically

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Speaker 1: an insult, and the oracle at Venus Aphasitas won't even

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Speaker 1: take their offerings. Didn't you say it floats there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a bad, bad omen for the pal Marines.

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Speaker 1: It reminded us of the Specters that when whenever ghosts

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Speaker 1: the Specters happen, it's just bad news. But Realme has

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Speaker 1: a new emperor into seventy, a Relian, and he's tired

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Speaker 1: of Zenobia's shenanigans and marches to Asia Minor. So the

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Speaker 1: pal Marines faith are alien outside of Antioch, and the

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Speaker 1: palm Marines had this awesome line of archers with the

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Speaker 1: cavalry behind it and then the infantry behind that, But

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Speaker 1: the cavalry had a bad habit of getting over zealous

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Speaker 1: and just losing touch with what else was going on,

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Speaker 1: according to Anthony Fraser's Yes, and so they get tricky

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Speaker 1: and they pretend to retreat, hoping that the cavalry will

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Speaker 1: follow them, which they do, and they then have the

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Speaker 1: cavalry and the writers running around in the desert until

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Speaker 1: they get tired, at which point they surround them and

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Speaker 1: kill them all. So Zenobia is obviously in trouble. At

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Speaker 1: this point, she heads to Amis that she has alien

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Speaker 1: in pursuit of her, and each side has about seventy

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Speaker 1: thousand men, which is a truly large number, and they

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Speaker 1: catch up with her and the Romans when they were

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Speaker 1: simply the better army. There are dead men and horses

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Speaker 1: littering the countryside, and Zenobia flees again. She goes back

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Speaker 1: to Palmyra, which is about a hundred miles from where

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Speaker 1: they are. She's probably hoping the distance and the terrain

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Speaker 1: and the heat are going to keep Arelian from getting

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Speaker 1: to her, but he makes it, and then she's stuck.

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Speaker 1: She's in this isolated area. She's got nowhere else to go,

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Speaker 1: and he sets up a blockade, and famine sets in

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Speaker 1: pretty soon, and the two right each other's Enobia and

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Speaker 1: Arlian and Uh. He tells her to surrender and offers

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Speaker 1: her pretty good terms, but she refuses, absolutely and defiantly.

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Speaker 1: She will not surrender to the emperor, and she leaves

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Speaker 1: the city. The snottier interpretation of it is that she

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Speaker 1: was just trying to escape and she was leaving her

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Speaker 1: people to their fate, but some people say she was

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Speaker 1: going to try to get help from Persia against Arielian.

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Speaker 1: Either way, she's caught at their euphrates and she's brought

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Speaker 1: to a mesa. Palmyra falls and now she has to

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Speaker 1: deal with Arillian. So Arelian is not happy that all

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Speaker 1: of this trouble happened over a woman, and he gives

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Speaker 1: all these speeches basically trying to justify fighting a woman, essentially,

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Speaker 1: you know, saying, well, she's a woman, but she really

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Speaker 1: has a lot of the qualities of a man just

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Speaker 1: trying to make himself better, look a little better. But

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Speaker 1: then she goes back with the classic trick of saying, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm just a weak woman, and it was men who

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Speaker 1: tricked me. And you know this was none of my

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Speaker 1: own doing. I didn't even write that defiant letter. It

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Speaker 1: was the scholar instead, poor scholars executed. And she plays

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Speaker 1: her cards well. She's taken as a captive to Rome

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Speaker 1: in this giant parade that Aurelian sets up. In addition

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Speaker 1: to having Zenobia wearing tons of jewels, pounds of them

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Speaker 1: and gold shackles, the triumph also features elephants and giraffes

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Speaker 1: and gladiators and ambassadors captives wearing placards. So I really

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Speaker 1: liked that detail. They've got people all sorts of captives.

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Speaker 1: Arialian scotten even though you know Zenobia's captain number one,

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Speaker 1: but they are signs around their necks saying like Amazon

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Speaker 1: or something, except for Zenobia, who doesn't need them. With

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Speaker 1: the pounds of jewels. It's like an exotic natural history triumph.

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Speaker 1: I really wish I'd been there. But she goes off

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Speaker 1: to live the rest of her life rather quietly. She

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Speaker 1: married a Roman senator and went to live in a

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Speaker 1: villain in the countryside, and that's pretty much the end

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Speaker 1: of what you hear about Zenobia. So this slow denolment

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Speaker 1: of her life contrasts really interestingly to that of Cleopatra,

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Speaker 1: who knows how to go out with a bang or

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Speaker 1: a rather exactly um. But yeah, I find it so

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Speaker 1: interesting that somebody who has modeled her life um so

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Speaker 1: closely on that of Cleopatra is willing to give it

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Speaker 1: up in the end and admit her defeat. I guess

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Speaker 1: another interesting thing about Zenobia versus other warrior queens throughout history,

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Speaker 1: like Boudica, and again I'm going to Anthony of Rager's

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Speaker 1: book Your Queen's is that her military pursuits weren't about

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Speaker 1: righting wrongs or any sort of weren't moral, No, they

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Speaker 1: were completely about ambition, pure burning ambition. And you know,

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Speaker 1: then she ends up in her little villa in the countryside,

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Speaker 1: I guess, accomplishing what she could well, and and that

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Speaker 1: fits into this legend building that we were talking about

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Speaker 1: earlier that surrounds her, this ambition to UM not only

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Speaker 1: conquer territories, but build herself up into this uh consequently

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Speaker 1: mythical personage. She's done such a good job at her

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Speaker 1: own legend building that she seems kind of false almost.

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Speaker 1: She seems like the perfect character for UM, like a

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Speaker 1: made for TV movie or something. It would absolutely go

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Speaker 1: see that. But that brings us to listener mail, and

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Speaker 1: today listener mails a little bit different. We're not going

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Speaker 1: to give you anyone's names, but we had a listener

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Speaker 1: right to us and he said, please ease in caps,

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Speaker 1: no more women's history, and we're sorry to say that

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Speaker 1: that's not going to happen, not at all. I think

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Speaker 1: when a lot of people think of women's history, they

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Speaker 1: think of a Jane Austen novel come to life, people

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Speaker 1: sitting in sitting rooms and talking about manners and things.

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Speaker 1: And we don't want to discount those stories because those

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Speaker 1: stories are important, and we would love to talk about

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Speaker 1: someone like Jane Austen. We do, we would love Jane Austen,

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Speaker 1: but there are also other stories that don't get covered

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Speaker 1: as often and things that you do miss in history,

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Speaker 1: like Zenobia, who I certainly never encountered before today, someone

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Speaker 1: who was working very much in a male sphere. So

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Speaker 1: since we're not willing to discount fifty one percent of history, um,

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Speaker 1: you should send us your favorite women's history topics or

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Speaker 1: any history because we're always open to it. All to

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Speaker 1: history podcasts at how stuff works dot com, and if

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Speaker 1: you like to follow us on Twitter, we're at Missed

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Speaker 1: in History And if you would like to learn more

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Speaker 1: about women in the history, you should check out our

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Speaker 1: website at www dot how stuff works dot com. For

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Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, visit how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com and be sure to check out

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Speaker 1: the Stuff you Missed in History class, blogged on the

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Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com home page