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Speaker 1: I get a text from one of my buddies. He said, hey,

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Speaker 1: he's a veteran. He said, are you watching the news

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Speaker 1: And I said no, He said turn it on, And

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Speaker 1: so I turned on the news, which I never watch.

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Speaker 1: I cannot watch the news. I turned it on and

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Speaker 1: I see Afghan Taliban rolling into Kabul on our gun trucks,

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Speaker 1: in our uniforms, wearing our kid carrying our card beans

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Speaker 1: and terrorizing Afghans on international television, you know. And I'm

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Speaker 1: standing there just trying to make sense of it, and

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Speaker 1: my phone it's blowing up, you know. And then it

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Speaker 1: rings and it's an Aama and I knew something was

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Speaker 1: up because he was calling me voice and he said,

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Speaker 1: you know, sir, it's over. He said, the Taliban are here.

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Speaker 1: They're texting my phone. They're circling the block. I'm hiding

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Speaker 1: in my uncle's house, like Anne Frank. The president has

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Speaker 1: left the country, the generals have taken the money, the

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Speaker 1: commandos have disbanded, you know. And then he just got quiet,

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Speaker 1: and I'm out in my backyard because I didn't want

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Speaker 1: money or you know, anybody to hear it. He's on

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Speaker 1: speaker and he said, you know, I never worried about dying.

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Speaker 1: I just never I never thought I would dialogue God,

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Speaker 1: and I just thought that had to just crush out. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it was the worst possible thing that happened that day,

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Speaker 1: and I just said the only thing I could think

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Speaker 1: of us looks hard, and you're not going to die.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.

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Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,

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Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in

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Speaker 2: inner City Memphis. And somehow that last part led to

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Speaker 2: an oscar for the movie about our team. That film's

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Speaker 2: called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems will never

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Speaker 2: be solved by a bunch of fancy people and nice

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Speaker 2: suits using big words on CNN and Fox, but rather

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Speaker 2: by an army of normal folks, US, just you and

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Speaker 2: me deciding hey, maybe I can help. That's what retired

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Speaker 2: Lieutenant Colonel Scott Man the voice you just heard, has done. This.

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Speaker 2: Green Beret Scott didn't let Nazam die alone, and from

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Speaker 2: Tampa Bay, Florida, he led his own army of normal

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Speaker 2: folks to rescue Nazamb and get this over, seven hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty Afghan allies who were being hunted down by

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Speaker 2: the Taliban and the wake of America's withdrawal from the country.

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Speaker 2: And this is just the beginning of how Scott has

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Speaker 2: served as fellow man both at home and abroad. I

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Speaker 2: genuinely cannot wait for you to meet this man right

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Speaker 2: after these messages from our general sponsors, a Colonel Scott Man.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Memphis, Bill, thanks for having me. Flew up

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Speaker 2: from Tampa. I guess the last night yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Actually, MONI flew up from Tampa. I flew down from

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Speaker 1: New York. I was doing some stuff on the anniversary

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Speaker 1: of the collapse of Afghanistan up on the news in

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Speaker 1: New York. So I flew down from Manhattan.

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Speaker 2: I got it, and let's go ahead and revealed to

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Speaker 2: our audience. She said, MONI came up from Tampa. What's

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Speaker 2: this mony situation? All right?

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Speaker 1: So this is this is my bride of twenty nine years,

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Speaker 1: this veteran's day had a boy who she's She's been

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Speaker 1: with me through thick and thin, raising three boys. But

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Speaker 1: you know, through a very long war as well, a

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Speaker 1: war abroad and a war at home.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and while you were overseas and you're married to Monty.

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Speaker 2: Did you feel like you were defending defending on an

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Speaker 2: enemy on two fronts? Because Moni's beautiful and you're just

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Speaker 2: kind of dumpy, like.

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Speaker 1: Hey, am man, and I just every every time I

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Speaker 1: introduced her to somebody, they just look at me like.

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Speaker 2: Dude, what the hell is what going on? What is go?

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Speaker 1: And I just I don't know. I just hope nobody

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Speaker 1: figures it out.

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Speaker 2: Buddie, this isn't about you, but it's going to be

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Speaker 2: for a minute. You're from Mississippi, where Meridian, Mississippi, and

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Speaker 2: you're an old miss girl, well hottie Toddy anyway, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: why wouldn't you? It's all miss right. Well, welcome to

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Speaker 2: Memphis as well. And I think it's cool when our

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Speaker 2: guests are with their spouse.

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Speaker 1: Uh So we do everything to get We travel everywhere together.

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Speaker 1: I'm a keynote speaker on the for profit side, and

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Speaker 1: everything I do, she's at, she's there, she's got my back.

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Speaker 1: And we promised each other when I got out of

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Speaker 1: the on through that's what we would do. We're empty nesters

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Speaker 1: now and so we're living into it.

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Speaker 2: I love it, and Lisa and I are the same

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Speaker 2: way in fact, I was just in Phoenix for a

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Speaker 2: speech and she was there, and she's always there.

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Speaker 1: She's yeah, she's my Yeah, she's my person. Yeah, mine too, man.

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Speaker 1: I Like, I get up on the stage and a

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Speaker 1: minute I start, I really start thinking I shouldn't be here.

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Speaker 1: I'm not the person that should be on the stage.

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Speaker 1: I'm a fraud. If she's the first person I'm locate,

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Speaker 1: and if I find her, I'm good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, before we get into you, one more thing,

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Speaker 2: Alex will tell you what's one of my first lines

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Speaker 2: within the first three minutes of every speech is yeah,

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Speaker 2: at least it's hot. I do. I do some house

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Speaker 2: cleaning items because they do the bio introductions and all that,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, okay, you heard all that. Now let

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Speaker 2: me tell you who I am. First one. My wife

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Speaker 2: Lisa's smoking hot. That's how'll start. And it's because it's true,

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Speaker 2: not to brag, but just you know what, and I'm

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Speaker 2: scared to death. Well, and that's why we have thirty

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Speaker 2: years so it works out well. But you have a

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Speaker 2: big story and there's a lot to unpack here, and uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't know if I'm supposed to identify

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Speaker 2: you as a as a green Bray, as an author,

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Speaker 2: as a playwright, an actor, a storyteller, a leader, or

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Speaker 2: just say, you really are all of those things. So

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Speaker 2: across from me, it's a little bit of a renaissance guy.

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Speaker 2: And I know you probably shudder when I say that,

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Speaker 2: but I do see you that way, and so much

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Speaker 2: of what what you do and what you have done

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Speaker 2: to serve others and what you were doing now ties

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Speaker 2: back to I think a lot about who you were

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Speaker 2: as a as a kid. Yeah, and so tell us

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Speaker 2: about tell us about Scott. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, the renaissance man thing doesn't hit as

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Speaker 1: hard as it used to. I mean, I do think

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Speaker 1: myself more, as you know, I think of myself as

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Speaker 1: an artist now, as a creative in it because it

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Speaker 1: keeps me alive. And I've come to terms with that,

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Speaker 1: but I used to not at all. And I was

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Speaker 1: born the son of Rex and Anita Man.

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Speaker 2: I love that said.

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Speaker 1: That's her last name. That's her name, Anita Man. So

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Speaker 1: it's a tough kid growing up, and we moved all

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Speaker 1: over the South. My dad was is a forester in

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Speaker 1: the US forest arst. Mom's a school teacher, and we

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Speaker 1: just lived in little logging towns and little communities all

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Speaker 1: over the southeast southwest. My dad was usually a forest

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Speaker 1: ranger h in fought big wildline fires and so grew

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Speaker 1: up really really simple, you know, in the country. And uh,

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Speaker 1: when I was fourteen, a Green Beret came into the

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Speaker 1: soda shop where I was hanging out. His name was Mark.

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Speaker 1: And the minute I met that guy and he sat

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Speaker 1: down and talked with me.

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Speaker 2: That was it.

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Speaker 1: I knew that's what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 2: What did he say? What's he in uniform? He was?

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Speaker 1: But it was that wasn't I mean that that got

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Speaker 1: everybody's attention, because you know, any time anybody it is,

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Speaker 1: it is it's almost movie like, absolutely. But it was

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Speaker 1: more of the way he carried himself. It was more

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Speaker 1: the way he conducted himself and when he sat down

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Speaker 1: and talked to me, because I man, I was god.

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Speaker 1: I was so scrawny as a kid, I mean I was.

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Speaker 1: I was pretty bullied, I mean, and I struggled big

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Speaker 1: dude when I was younger. I mean, it was bad.

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Speaker 1: And we moved all the time too, which made it worse.

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Speaker 1: And so I was always on the outside looking in

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Speaker 1: of things, and I just tried not to make waves.

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Speaker 1: And this guy, like, you know, he sat down with me.

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Speaker 1: I went up to him, I talked to him and

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Speaker 1: asked him who he was, and he sat down with

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Speaker 1: me and he started explaining to me what Green Berets

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Speaker 1: are and what they do, and how they work with

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Speaker 1: indigenous communities, and how different they are from the Navy,

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Speaker 1: Seals and rangers that they actually they do some of

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Speaker 1: that door kicking stuff, but they build relationships, they build

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Speaker 1: rapport and they'll go into a community with twelve guys

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Speaker 1: and they'll come out with twelve hundred, you know, And

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Speaker 1: that just fascinated.

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Speaker 2: I think that. Okay, so I think ninety five percent

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Speaker 2: I'm making that nu broad, but ninety five percent of

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Speaker 2: the non military people on the face of the planet

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Speaker 2: who owe this enormous debt of gratitude to those of

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Speaker 2: you who served and have served and bloed and died

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Speaker 2: for our freedoms. We get so much of our attitude

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Speaker 2: and appreciation and belief side of the military from movies,

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Speaker 2: in the books. It's true, yeah, it's true, And so

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Speaker 2: we get desensitized, I think, to what a Green Beret

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Speaker 2: is right, to what a seal is right, and to

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Speaker 2: what just your run of the middle average, you know,

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Speaker 2: military guy is also, which is unfortunate because of the service. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: the most popular Green Berey in the American psyche is

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Speaker 2: a fictitional person named John Ramba.

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Speaker 1: John Ramba, absolutely, but that's unfortunate to be it is.

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Speaker 1: It is because it gives this persona that that they're

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Speaker 1: kind of kill them all, that God's sort them ount

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Speaker 1: kind of.

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Speaker 2: Of individuals, and that's military stuff. Yeah, and it's just

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Speaker 2: not true, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean even in the seal communities and the rangers,

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Speaker 1: and you know, they're very surgical.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: That's what I try to tell people is that special

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Speaker 1: operators are very surgical individuals. Even when they apply lethality,

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Speaker 1: it's surgical, you know. Typically and with with green Berets,

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Speaker 1: we're the only unit in the inventory that is really

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Speaker 1: chartered to go into areas and build social capital from

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Speaker 1: the inside out.

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Speaker 2: I say, I don't think anybody knows. Nobody knows that.

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Speaker 2: And I tell that is when I've read that about

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Speaker 2: when I read that about your story and where he

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Speaker 2: told you a kid and what that is not at

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Speaker 2: all what people think a green bereat No, And that's

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Speaker 2: prey is go kick doors, kill people, kick kick out

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Speaker 2: and move on and hoorah and all.

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Speaker 1: That absolutely, And you know, we draw our origins all

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Speaker 1: the way back to World War Two when the Office

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Speaker 1: of Strategic Services UH got volunteers of school teachers and

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Speaker 1: attorneys mostly who volunteered to be on these teams called

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Speaker 1: Jedbird teams, three person teams, and they dropped into Nazi

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Speaker 1: occupied Europe in three person teams and they stayed the

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Speaker 1: entire war. And what they did was they built relationships

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Speaker 1: as teachers and advisors of subversion and sabotage, and they

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Speaker 1: these partisans that were already resisting, They mobilized them, trained them,

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Speaker 1: organized them, equipped them, and then advised them to resist

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Speaker 1: against the Germans. And that became modern day special forces.

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Speaker 1: That's that's so cool to learn.

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Speaker 2: Hey, who's the guy that we're interviewing Alex that wanted

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Speaker 2: to assassinate Hitler? The preacher offer story? Do you know

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Speaker 2: this story? I do know that story. Okay, you refreshed

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Speaker 2: me on a help but hear you and wonder if

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Speaker 2: there was crossover there There could have been.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the OSS was very involved in that kind

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Speaker 1: of work, you know, and we were actually partnered with Canada.

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Speaker 1: Canada actually put members in it. So not only does

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Speaker 1: Special Forces draw its lineage to the OSS, but the

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Speaker 1: CIA as well. In fact, in the fifties, after World

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Speaker 1: War Two, the OSS split. One group became the Intelligence

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Speaker 1: arm of the United States, the Central Intelligence Agency. The

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Speaker 1: other group became Special Forces, and that became and this

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Speaker 1: was in the early nineteen fifties, nineteen fifty two.

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Speaker 2: So green Berets have.

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Speaker 1: Been around a long time. You know, I tell people

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Speaker 1: that were very different than Navy Seals, Army rangers. Those

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Speaker 1: guys have way better hair than we do. They're yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you've got better hats, I'm telling you, man. But

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. What I do a lot of work

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Speaker 1: with young people like you do as well. And I

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Speaker 1: you know, folks that are thinking about going in special ops,

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Speaker 1: and I try to help them figure out which branch

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Speaker 1: is right for them. And what I tell people is

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Speaker 1: a modern day green Beret is a combination between John Wick,

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Speaker 1: Lawrence of Arabia and the Verizon Guy.

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Speaker 2: Why the Verizon Guy, Well, well, so we've already covered

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Speaker 2: John Wick. Right.

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Speaker 1: If you think about John Wick as a character, the

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Speaker 1: dude is lethal. You don't want to mess with him,

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Speaker 1: but he's really reluctant to apply that lethality until he's pushed,

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Speaker 1: and then he applies it and it is very rough,

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Speaker 1: but very surgical. That's why I use him as an avatar.

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Speaker 1: And that's the baseline capability for John and for a

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Speaker 1: Green Beret. Then you have the Lawrence of Arabia.

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Speaker 2: Right. T. E.

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Speaker 1: Lawrence nineteen seventeen British intelligence officer walks into modern day

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Speaker 1: Syria during World War One. He had worked there as

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Speaker 1: a geologist. The British military sent him in. He mobilized

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Speaker 1: an entire tribal nation to overthrow the Ottoman Empire, who

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Speaker 1: was alid with the enemy. And he did it by

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Speaker 1: mobilizing these tribes from the inside out and riding across

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Speaker 1: the Sahara and taking the city of Akaba. And he

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Speaker 1: did all this through interpersonal skills. So Lawrence of Arabia

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Speaker 1: is a big chunk of what we do. And then

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Speaker 1: finally the Verizon guy. This is the ability to make

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Speaker 1: connections that are massive, to build networks. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: what we did with Pineapple Express in Panama. When we

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Speaker 1: invaded Panama, Green Berets actually went to payphones and were

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Speaker 1: calling Panamanian soldiers in their barracks speaking to them in

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Speaker 1: Spanish telling them to come out or they were going

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Speaker 1: to be bombs dropping, and they got these surrenders without

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Speaker 1: a shot fired. They're these amazing connectors. They can build

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Speaker 1: these massive networks over time that are almost almost it's

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Speaker 1: almost impossible to believe how big these networks can get.

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Speaker 1: And green Berets are just naturals at it. They just

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Speaker 1: they're really great at connecting beyond their comfort zone.

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Speaker 2: So did this gentleman back in Arkansas teach you this

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Speaker 2: as a kid?

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Speaker 1: He told me, What he really told me was about

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Speaker 1: how green Berets go into these trust depleted places when

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Speaker 1: nobody else wants to go, and they go in there

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Speaker 1: and they build trust and rapport and they teach those

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Speaker 1: people how to fight.

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Speaker 2: On their own.

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Speaker 1: Trust depleted places sound familiar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. That's Did he use that phrase with

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Speaker 2: you as a kid? Remember, low trust?

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Speaker 1: I think was what he said, But say, yeah, same thing,

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Speaker 1: and just there's there was something about that and the

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Speaker 1: way he talked to me, he was just he was

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Speaker 1: so calm and self spoken. He wasn't trying, there was

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Speaker 1: no bravado. He was extremely intelligent, and I could tell.

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Speaker 1: And I know this sounds crazy, he knew that was

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Speaker 1: what I wanted and he was recruiting me. He knew

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Speaker 1: that's what I wanted to do. He could see it

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Speaker 1: in me, you know, and he took the time to

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Speaker 1: talk to me, not as a fourteen year old kid

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Speaker 1: that was pushed around and ignore. He saw me, you know.

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Speaker 1: And this guy mentored me until I retired. What year

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Speaker 1: was this, nineteen eighty three, So.

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Speaker 2: In eighty three, forty years ago. Yeah, yeah, the idea

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Speaker 2: of a Green Beret was still to build consensus, to

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Speaker 2: build groups, to reach out. Yeah, I am trained. Do

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Speaker 2: you know, Oh my gosh, the Medal of Honor winner,

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Speaker 2: do you know? I do know David.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry. I shouldn't say. It's a common mistake.

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Speaker 2: But he's been a guest. Yeah. An, he's an incredible guy.

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Speaker 1: He is incredible, and he's one of the bravest men

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Speaker 1: I've ever met, but well so one of the just

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Speaker 1: most humble.

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Speaker 2: Oh I know, he's one of the and I think

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Speaker 2: he's the only living Medal of Honor recipient from a

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Speaker 2: rock warm Pretty.

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Speaker 1: Sure that that's right. Yeah, I think that's right. He's incredible.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, the thing I love about him is his humility

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Speaker 2: and everything. But he also will say this, you mess

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Speaker 2: with us, understand, somebody else is going to raise your children,

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Speaker 2: which is a profound thing to say. But when I

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Speaker 2: hear you, what I hear is yep, we're trained. Yes,

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Speaker 2: we're high speed, and if it comes to it will

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Speaker 2: eliminate you. Right. But that is not what we want

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Speaker 2: to do.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: In fact, you want to build relationships.

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Speaker 1: We build those relationships and make no mistake, so that

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Speaker 1: the people who live in these areas at a local

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Speaker 1: level can apply their own levels of coercion to take

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Speaker 1: care of business, you know. And so just to be clear,

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Speaker 1: it's not the Peace Corps, you know, we we we mobilize.

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Speaker 1: In fact, there was a statistic, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it held true all the way through the war.

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Speaker 1: I think it did that more Green Berets were killed

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Speaker 1: in the Global War on Terror than all Special Operations

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Speaker 1: forces combined. And the reason and I don't know if

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Speaker 1: that held through all the way through, but it was

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Speaker 1: at one point that and the reason is because all

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Speaker 1: of the forces go through massive losses, but Green Berets

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Speaker 1: are living out in these communities in and amongst the people.

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Speaker 1: And when you're dealing with insurgents, and when you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with you know, bad actors who mobilize the population, you

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Speaker 1: are getting at the getting at their breadline, you know,

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Speaker 1: and so they come at you with all four feet

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Speaker 1: twenty four.

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Speaker 2: But that's no different than Germany. That's no different than

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Speaker 2: I would assume Vietnam. And now the more modern wars,

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Speaker 2: the same effort of a Green Beret sounds.

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Speaker 1: Some it's a very distinct mission, just like all of

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Speaker 1: the other Special Operations forces. But ours is to again

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Speaker 1: to mobilize large populations by with and through. So go

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Speaker 1: back to Lawrence of Arabia. This dude walks into modern

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Speaker 1: day Syria, and now he wasn't a Green Beret, but

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Speaker 1: he applied the same mission. And he got a group

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Speaker 1: of Badoo tribesmen, nomads who couldn't sit in the same

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Speaker 1: tent together without unsheathing their knives on each other. And

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Speaker 1: he told them a story of what would happen if

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Speaker 1: you liberated Akaba, the crown jewel of the Ottoman Empire.

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Speaker 1: What if you could liberate that from the desert, What

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Speaker 1: a narrative that would be for history? And he mobilized

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Speaker 1: these these nomads, and they did it. They rode across

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Speaker 1: the Sahara Desert. But here's the kicker. Lawrence knew that

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Speaker 1: Akaba was vulnerable from the desert because all the guns

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Speaker 1: pointed to the sea. And he learned that when he

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Speaker 1: was a geologist there. It was his understanding of the

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Speaker 1: local environment. It was his understanding of the local dynamics

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Speaker 1: and his ability to tell a story that hadn't even

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Speaker 1: happened yet to these individuals and build rapport and trust

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Speaker 1: that was so strong. He had authority over none of them,

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Speaker 1: but he could tell a story that was so compelling

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Speaker 1: that these nomads bridged across their tribal rivalries, banded together

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Speaker 1: and rode across the Sahara Desert and liberated occupa. Now

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Speaker 1: you talk about an economy of force for the military,

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Speaker 1: like that's huge. The same way these three person Jedburghs

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Speaker 1: stayed behind enemy lines for years and mobilized partisans to

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Speaker 1: disrupt Hitler.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: So that's what's actually going on. It is relationships and coercion.

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Speaker 1: But it's a depth of trust that's so deep that

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Speaker 1: that farmer will go up on a rooftop besides you

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Speaker 1: and fight at your shoulder with no authority, and he

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Speaker 1: will die fighting alongside you because of the trust that

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Speaker 1: you've built. And that's what people have such a hard

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Speaker 1: time understanding. And that's why I think people couldn't get

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Speaker 1: their head around while we were so devastated Afghanistan collapsed.

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Speaker 1: You know, most people saw people falling off the wheels

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Speaker 1: of airplanes. You know, we saw people that kept us

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Speaker 1: alive and brought us into their homes and shared their

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Speaker 1: families and their meals with us.

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Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our gender sponsors. But first,

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Speaker 2: I hope you'll consider signing up to join the Army

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00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,119
Speaker 2: at normal folks dot us. By signing up, you'll receive

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Speaker 2: a weekly email with short episodes summaries in case you

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Speaker 2: happen to miss an episode, or if you prefer reading

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00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 2: about our incredible guests. We'll be right back at fourteen.

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Speaker 2: You were told this story and you started to understand it,

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Speaker 2: and your life has been a large part of your

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Speaker 2: life has been this story. Yeah, understanding it, the real

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Speaker 2: purpose of a Green Beret, and the unbelievable history you

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Speaker 2: give behind it. In the metaphorical story you tell of

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Speaker 2: Lawrence of Arabia, even though he wasn't a Green Beret.

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Speaker 2: But like you say, the mission is the same. Then

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Speaker 2: it follows that, duh, who better to go into a

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Speaker 2: trust depleted your words, nation like Afghanistan, Yeah, full of

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Speaker 2: a bunch of different tribes that would in your words,

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Speaker 2: unsheathe their knives if they were under the same tent

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Speaker 2: and try to create a coalition or an alliance among

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Speaker 2: trust depleted people who had been decimated by internal strife

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Speaker 2: and Russia back in the eighties and try to create

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Speaker 2: a coalition to combat the talib and Ok. I mean

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Speaker 2: that seems like what the mission of the Green Bereat is.

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Speaker 2: It is very job that needed to be done.

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Speaker 1: And honestly, you know, even in the nineties when I

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Speaker 1: went into Special Forces, this was I worked in South

401
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Speaker 1: America during the drug years, uh, in Columbia, Columbia, the

402
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Speaker 1: Andian Ridge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was forty times sporting, but that was sporty.

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Speaker 1: And then nine to eleven hit, you know, and and

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Speaker 1: and it changed our lives for Moni and me and

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Speaker 1: our boys. You know, my oldest son was three when

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Speaker 1: the towers fell and he's now an infantry captain. To

408
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Speaker 1: give you an idea of how long that war was.

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Speaker 1: But it really changed our lives. I remember one of

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Speaker 1: my commanders said to me, Scotty, you are two phases

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Speaker 1: of your life.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: You were either in Afghanistan or you're getting ready to

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Speaker 1: go back. And that's that's it. That became our life.

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Speaker 1: That's how we raised our boys, that's how money lived

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Speaker 1: her life. You know, you were either there or you

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Speaker 1: were getting ready to go back there. And it went

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Speaker 1: on for years. And I mean, and I had three

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Speaker 1: long deployments there, but I've got buddies, that's got ten,

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Speaker 1: you know, And and it was just a long war

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Speaker 1: of working in these places. But to go back to

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Speaker 1: what you said about that mission, I remember something that

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Speaker 1: you said that that struck me about the Turkey, about

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Speaker 1: like about not being a Turkey, you know, and having

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Speaker 1: a conversation with that guy on the on the team.

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Speaker 1: That's what you do in s f IS is everybody

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Speaker 1: is trying to win over the local population, the conventional

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Speaker 1: army that all the units are trying to win them over.

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Speaker 1: But you you got to if you got to go local,

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Speaker 1: or you got to go home, man Like, that's the

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Speaker 1: only way to build trust and rapport, you know that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's true in America, agree more about that

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Speaker 2: as a broad statement about everything, everything and every Yeah,

434
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 2: and so politics is local, every service is local. Yeah,

435
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 2: fixing communities is local. That's cultural and societal ills are

436
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 2: local and apparently fighting a war on percent.

437
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: And that's what green berets I think do differently than

438
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 1: anybody else's. We live in the communities, We grow our

439
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: beards out, We donned the garb, we speak the language.

440
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 1: We help them solve low tech farming problems. We think

441
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 1: through dispute resolution. We try to figure out how to

442
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: do sun dried tomatoes when it's not working well, like

443
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 1: you know, you really, I mean all those things. You

444
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: try to figure out why farmers are killing earthworms with

445
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: their thumbs in the tilled field. Why would a farmer

446
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: kill an earthworm with his thumbs? Why would they get

447
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: online and kill all these earthworms.

448
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 2: I don't know why they'd kill it with their thumbs,

449
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: but I would soon the earthworm kills their crop. The

450
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,719
Speaker 2: earthworms are great for soil composition.

451
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: But they think that because they grew up in a

452
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: refugee camp during the Soviet occupation and the Civil War,

453
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: and they've never farmed in their life. And the only

454
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: way you would know that is if you lived in

455
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: the community with them and you listen to their stories

456
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 1: about their life versus throwing soccer balls out the window

457
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 1: and saying, I'm from the government, how do you like

458
00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 1: me so far?

459
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 2: So what you're saying is to wage a proper winning

460
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 2: strategy of war in a place like Afghanistan, you have

461
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: to get out of your comfort zone. Yeah, you have

462
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 2: to get out of your vacuum of thought. Yeah, you

463
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 2: can't surround yourself with people who look like you, think

464
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 2: like you, vote like you, believe like you, le worship

465
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: like you, and love like you. You cannot so that

466
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 2: then you were able to understand the very people you

467
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 2: seek to serve exactly. And that is the fundamental tenets

468
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 2: of leadership.

469
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: It is, and the reality was for the first to

470
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: back it up the first ten years of the war

471
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan. When nine to eleven hit, of course, it

472
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: caught the whole country off guard. We can all probably

473
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: remember not only where we were, but what we were

474
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: doing and wearing. My ranger buddy, Cliff Patterson was killed

475
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: in the Pentagon that day, and he was a very

476
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: dear friend and it wrecked me. I remember, MANI was

477
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: the one that told me that he had been killed,

478
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: and this was, you know, a couple of days. I

479
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 1: learned about this after the attack, and I immediately I

480
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: was already pissed, and I went immediately into vengeance mode,

481
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: as did every war fighter. I don't care if you

482
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: were a Green Beret or not. All you thought about

483
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 1: was payback, like it is retribution time. Even President Bush said,

484
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: I think the whole country I think they felt that.

485
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: So military non military, all yeah, But we had open

486
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: hunting season, and it was open season, right. We went

487
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: over there, and I went in a couple of years later.

488
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: But the initial SF guys that went in, they worked

489
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: by with and through with the If you ever saw

490
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 1: the movie twelve Strong, Okay, so that was kind of

491
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: that was the mission of the Horse Soldiers, fifth Special

492
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: Forces Group. But then we kind of settled into this

493
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: this Vietnam style top down counterinsurgency campaign where we we

494
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: I think we really snatched, you know, defeat from the

495
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: jaws of victory.

496
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 2: Well that's weird because everything you just told me was

497
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: bottom up, build relationships with the community up.

498
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: Why did we I think we forgot it? As a

499
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: as you know, and I'm saying this about my own organization.

500
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: We were so focused on walking the enemy down and

501
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: surgical targeting, and in some ways, as a community we

502
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: almost kind of became another direct action unit versus working

503
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: out in these local communities to really address.

504
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 2: Did you feel it? Did you see it as it

505
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: was happening? I did not.

506
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: I was caught up in it.

507
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:22,479
Speaker 2: I was.

508
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: I was I was myopically caught up in retribution payback,

509
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: walking the Taliban down body count. Now we were still

510
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: living in the communities and doing local things, but it

511
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 1: was to get at the enemy.

512
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: It was to kick a door in.

513
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: Snatch a dude out of his house in front of

514
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: his family, run him off to a prison and put

515
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: him in it, put him in that in that detention center,

516
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 1: or kill him in front of his family, you know,

517
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: and and and think about that. In a tribal society

518
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: where you're kicking in doors in the middle of the night,

519
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: You're you're snatching these in front of the You're not

520
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: building relationships, right.

521
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 2: I probably fear and hate you just just b Talibat

522
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: or whoever.

523
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: And a lot of the times, or at least early

524
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,719
Speaker 1: on in the war, you would have a white bearded

525
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: guy come up and say those folks over there are Taliban, okay,

526
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: And it was a guy that you had built rapport with,

527
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: you drink tea with, so you go hit those guys.

528
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: Turns out he has a feud with this dude over water, right,

529
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: and you just took out his third cousin who he

530
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: wanted gone. And that's a bit of an extreme example,

531
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: but there was in my assessment, this is Scottman's assessment.

532
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: The first ten years of the war, we were myopically

533
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: focused on retribution. We were focused on payback, on walking

534
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: the enemy down, and we tried to put a square

535
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 1: peg in a round hole. We did not go local.

536
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 1: We came top down for ten years. And by two

537
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: thousand and eight I was flying home from my second deployment.

538
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: We had killed thousands of Taliban on that rotation, and

539
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: I could not sleep because there were more Taliban in

540
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: the rural areas of the country than when we had started,

541
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: and it was a rural insurgency. So we're looking at

542
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: it's two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, we've

543
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,479
Speaker 1: got more Taliban than when we started. You have a

544
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: new president that's talking about leaving in a couple of years.

545
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: And that was when the Special Forces community decided to

546
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: get back to its roots and start working bottom up.

547
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 2: We'll see that that, man. I mean, I love history

548
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 2: and I'm I'm also loved you know, curt events. Yeah,

549
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: drive Lisa crazy with it. That is not the story

550
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: we were told.

551
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: Nobody told that.

552
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: Story because Kabul women were free and going to school

553
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 2: and we were taking out the Taliban and they had

554
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 2: been quote neutralized. I mean, that's the story we were told.

555
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 2: We were told, right.

556
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: And we were told it by generals and admirals who

557
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: looked congressional leaders in the eye and said, the calip

558
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: the Taliban are fractured. But what you just said is

559
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: there were more Taliban in the rural areas than there

560
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: were before you arrived.

561
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,479
Speaker 2: And our senior leaders knew it. That's not what we

562
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: were told. I know. And and here that's let's call

563
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: it what it is.

564
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And here's a lie. And if you read the

565
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,239
Speaker 1: Afghan papers, it's it's documented like and and it was.

566
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: It was two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine,

567
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: it was clear that we were losing the war. The

568
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: rural insurgency had taken on such a dimension. And here's

569
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: the other thing that people have to know about Afghanistan.

570
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: Afghanistan is what you call a status society, right, So

571
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: it is we all come from status society. These are

572
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: societies that are traditional in nature, where honor and shame

573
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: are because the group is everything. You know, most folks

574
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: are farmers or hunters or gatherers, and so the group

575
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: is how you survive. You have to form groups, clans, tribes,

576
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: and the group dynamics are what govern the country.

577
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 2: Right, honor and.

578
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: Shame, old school justice, old school vengeance. Feud is a

579
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: normal part of everyday life. It has its own way

580
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: of managing justice. But it ain't what you and I

581
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: know is justice in a contract society like America, where

582
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: the individual is at the heart of everything. Micro and

583
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: I talked about this where in this country, individualism is

584
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: that we have a constitution that preserves the individual. In

585
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: Afghanistan is a status society where the group is dependent

586
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: on each other to survive. They don't care anything about

587
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: the individual. That actually runs counter to their survival, to

588
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:08,479
Speaker 1: their narrative.

589
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 2: It is it is the.

590
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: Collective that must ban together and whatever the collective needs

591
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: to survive or do to survive, that's the law. That's

592
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: the way it works. And if you go there's only

593
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: one paved road in Afghanistan. It's ring road. It runs

594
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: around the country. You go a mile off that paved

595
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: road in any direction, you are no longer in a

596
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: society that is rule of law. You are in a

597
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: society that is tribal, you know. And I tell people

598
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: that eighty to ninety percent of that country is honor

599
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: based society. It is bottom up, community based, tribal society.

600
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: And we never understood that.

601
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 2: And we were trying to put a new government. Yeah,

602
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 2: told your.

603
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: Figure up the show that you voted, show that you voted. Right, Yeah,

604
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: I'm from the government. How do you like me so far?

605
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: And they don't. In fact, what happened was we would

606
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: run these we would run we would on these elections,

607
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: and everybody would show their finger that they voted. You know, well,

608
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: the council of elders that runs most of these communities

609
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 1: is how the water gets managed, is how grazing is managed,

610
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: how disputure resolved. It's a council of elders, an egalitarian council.

611
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: It's not individuals, you know, voting. And so the Taliban,

612
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: who had eased their way back into the country after

613
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: they got pushed out because of how we were now

614
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: coming top down. They're out in the communities and they're

615
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: pointing at all these things to the elder saying, you

616
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: see that right there, you see all these individuals voting.

617
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: I wonder how that's going to work for the Djurga council.

618
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: What do you think your tenure is going to be

619
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: on this council of elders? How long is that going

620
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: to last?

621
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 2: You know?

622
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: And so what they basically did, we gave them an

623
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: engine running of a narrative that they just got in

624
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: and drove off in like it was We're basically going

625
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: to change your society, you know, fundamentally, and we never

626
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: even thought about it. We're driving by throwing med supplies

627
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: and soccer balls out the window, thinking that we're changing

628
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: this society from the top down for the better, we're

629
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: creating a democracy. What we actually created were the social

630
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: conditions for the Taliban to come right back in and

631
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: run a bottom up insurgency. So where we started in

632
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: Kabul and got to the gates of the villages at

633
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: the end of the war, they started in the villages

634
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: and ended up at Kabul at the end of.

635
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 2: The war, and the metaphoric irony of that is is

636
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 2: exactly what Lawrence Arabia did same, which is not the

637
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: duty of a Green Beret.

638
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: No, no, but we got back to that.

639
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: I get it. Yeah, So there was a flip hold it, Yeah,

640
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: there was a flip on the way.

641
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: There was a group of Green Berets that were looking

642
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: at what was going on in the country and we said,

643
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: we got to flip this thing. So we started this

644
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: program called Village Stability Operations VSO around twenty ten, and

645
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: it was a complete return to bottom up community based operations.

646
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: And the cool thing was the real mentors for this

647
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: were Vietnam era SF guys No kid Yep who had

648
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: worked with the Montagnards in the highlands of Vietnam. Phenomenal,

649
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: it really was, and they were so helpful in helping

650
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: us think that through because we knew we needed a

651
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: new approach, and the regiment came at that wholeheartedly and

652
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: started with seven villages. And I was fortunate enough to

653
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: be an architect of one of those of that program.

654
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,439
Speaker 1: And we started with seven villages and like seventy five

655
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: farmers and by the time the program was in eighteen

656
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: months into duration, it was gosh, one hundred and thirteen

657
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: villages across the country and something like thirty thousand fighters.

658
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: Okay, phenomenal. Yet it was too late. Is that what

659
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: it is? It was too late. It was too late.

660
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: We started it too late. It was it was there

661
00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,479
Speaker 2: was no way. And the other thing was.

662
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: The political appetite for the war. You know now you're talking.

663
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: This is twenty twelve, twenty thirteen. There's this push to

664
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: turn everything back over to the Afghans and let them

665
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: fight it and mus get out of there. And honestly

666
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: a lot of the Afghan senior leaders in Kabul did

667
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: not like green berets running around their villages advising tribal elders,

668
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: because the way Afghanistan is set up is in Kabul

669
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: you wield your influence out into the rural areas through

670
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: these elders. And we were influencing you were yep. And

671
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: so the leaders in Kabul talked a lot of our

672
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: general officers and admirals into terminating the program, even though

673
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: we had said, look, if we do this, if we

674
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: start this, it's a break it, you buy it kind

675
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: of thing. You start this, you're going to ask these

676
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: people to take massive risks in their lives, and we

677
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: got to stay with them. This could be based on

678
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: what's happened in Colombia with us, with our work there.

679
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: It could be fifty seventy five years of sustained engagement

680
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: of Green Berets in Afghanistan. Like this is all long game.

681
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,919
Speaker 1: Everybody agreed to that, and so that's what we told

682
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: the elders when we went in there.

683
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: It's like, we're with you.

684
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: For the long haul.

685
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 2: We're staying with you for the long term on this.

686
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 2: We're not going anywhere. Start to get my stomach, and.

687
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: So in twenty thirteen, they started pulling us out of

688
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: the villages, and I started getting phone calls from elders

689
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: that I had worked with when i'd be back stateside,

690
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: and you could hear the Taliban tossing their house, you know,

691
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: and you could hear gunshots. And then it finally got

692
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: to the point that every elder except one that I

693
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: personally recruited, was killed.

694
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 2: And that was when I looked at MANI.

695
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: I was a lieutenant colonel, I'd been selected for battalion command,

696
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: and I turned down three commands in a row, and

697
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: I retired. I just couldn't do it anymore. I was like,

698
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, I saw where twenty twenty one was headed

699
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen when we left those villages.

700
00:36:46,800 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 2: Like that, So I'm just going to connect dots and

701
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 2: tell me where my dots are inaccurately connected. Sounds to

702
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 2: me like we went in to kill Teleiban and we

703
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:21,479
Speaker 2: did that. We forgot our mission as traditional American Green

704
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 2: Bereys of building relationships from the ground up, which created

705
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,760
Speaker 2: the atmosphere for the Taliban to be able to creep

706
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: back into the rural areas. We recognized it and we

707
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 2: went back to what the traditional world of a green

708
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 2: bray is and started to build relationships at the bottom

709
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 2: up and made relationships, agreements, friendships, trusted. I don't even

710
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 2: know what the word is, but we we said to

711
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 2: people in these rule areas, here for you for the

712
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:01,439
Speaker 2: long haul. Yeah.

713
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: I will back one thing up is I want to

714
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: be really clear, the Green Berets from the outset, at

715
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: the team level, they were doing the right things. I

716
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: mean a lot of us were focused on what.

717
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 2: I can say, enemy.

718
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 1: It was like senior senior leaders and really as a coalition,

719
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: I think we lost our way. There were a lot

720
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: of Green Berets who were screaming for this. But our

721
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: special Forces regiment was divided. A lot of them wanted

722
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: to walk the enemy down. A lot of them wanted

723
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: to do this by with and through thing. We were

724
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: a house divided, but we got our act together, like

725
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,240
Speaker 1: you said in twenty ten. And and what this program

726
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: looked like, Bill, is what would happen is you would

727
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,800
Speaker 1: go into a community. And at first, I mean these teams,

728
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: like a team would go into a community and there

729
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: was no trust. There was these people were afraid. This

730
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: team might sleep on their trucks outside the village for

731
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: like two weeks trying to get into this village. And

732
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: they would the medics would work with the kids. Uh,

733
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: the team leaders would engage the elders and until finally

734
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: they would let you in for team absolutely and they

735
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: would ask it interesting, are you are you bringing a turkey?

736
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: Right? You know? Why why do you hear coach? Right?

737
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: And that you know what ironic is? In the Q course,

738
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: In the Green Beret Q course, there's an exercise called

739
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: Robin Sage at the end that culminates everything. And it's

740
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: it's the world's largest role playing exercise. It's in five

741
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: counties in North Carolina, everybody that lives in those towns

742
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: are role players as an occupied nation that are in Green.

743
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: You go in as Green bereat teams and you work

744
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: with these gorillas and you help them stand up against

745
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: this fictional army. Wow, it's exactly like what I just

746
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: described trying. You have to try to get into the community,

747
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: build your rapport, build your relationships, and really really relate

748
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: to what's going on.

749
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 2: But doing that, you're making promises you have to right.

750
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 2: And that's the whole thing, and the promises. We're here

751
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 2: for the long how we're gonna have your back if

752
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: you will have the courage and your words to come

753
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: up to your rooftop. You're going to defend you from

754
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: your rooftop. But eventually I want you to come up

755
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 2: and join me.

756
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: That's right, and eventually it happens.

757
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 2: I'm great.

758
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you brought that point up, because invariably

759
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: that's what would happen. You would see a team go

760
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: up to their rooftop and they would fight, and then

761
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: usually a week or two later of watching that happen,

762
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: you'd see one muscle flash on another roof and then

763
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,439
Speaker 1: a few nights later, two more muzzle flashes and then

764
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: eventually the muscle flashes on every roof, and this collective

765
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: defense of a community which they had done for And

766
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: this is the part I was trying to get across.

767
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: These communities had defended themselves like this for hundreds of years.

768
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: They were wired for this. Communities know how to be resilient,

769
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: they know how to do what they do. But the

770
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: real thing that we had lost as a nation was

771
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 1: that the damage in Afghanistan that was so substantial was

772
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: not the damage to the Kabul's infrastructure and to their government.

773
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: It was bad. The communities were decimated from forty years

774
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 1: of NonStop war, the Soviets, the Civil War, the Taliban US.

775
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: Every elder in that community had left years before and

776
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: had never come back. Imagine a community with no elders. Well,

777
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 1: you don't have to. You can see it. You can

778
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: see it in South Memphis sometimes when you drive through.

779
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 1: And that was what struck me when I came home

780
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: from this war, is I looked at these communities, I'm like,

781
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: oh my god, like that churn that was over there, it's.

782
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 2: Here, We're getting there. It's it is this. There's so

783
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 2: much to all of this. But the thing, the thing

784
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 2: that gets me the most as just an American is

785
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: we went over there with our best and our most

786
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 2: courageous you, you and your brothers and sisters, wearing my

787
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: flag on your shoulder, representing us, our democracy, our constitution,

788
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 2: are our way of life, and made promises, yeah, to

789
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 2: build these relationships and what I want people. The one

790
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 2: thing I do know that I've read a lot about

791
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 2: is there's this lack of political and public will to

792
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 2: stay in Afghanistan because of body bags coming back on planes,

793
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,959
Speaker 2: which I certainly understand. What I don't think most people

794
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 2: understand is we were always like, well, eventually they have

795
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 2: to defend themselves. They were defending them and they were

796
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 2: they They gained the temerity and the courage to defend

797
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 2: themselves against the Taliban and then al Qaeda because they

798
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 2: finally believed we would have their back.

799
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: And that was the whole thing. And they counted on that.

800
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: And remember that when we got there, there was no

801
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: military in Afghanistan. The military had been dissolved for years

802
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:56,919
Speaker 1: and trained and we.

803
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 2: Stood it up.

804
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: Now it was a twenty year old military. How many

805
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 1: twenty year olds are you going to give the keys

806
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 1: to a community too? Right here in the United States, right,

807
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: they needed more time, and that's part of capacity building.

808
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: It's not nation building, it's capacity building. And this is

809
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: what I always try to get across the politicians and citizens,

810
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: and they just can't seem to get their head around it.

811
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: We are facing an Islamist, violent extremist enemy in al Qaeda.

812
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: Isis the Taliban. There is no Taliban two point zero.

813
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: That's a farce.

814
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the same.

815
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: They are the same. They're different sides of the same coin.

816
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:39,720
Speaker 1: This Islamist threat has a multi century narrative of eradicating

817
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: our way of life based on an end of day's

818
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: scenario that they believe it is their solemn duty to

819
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,959
Speaker 1: usher in. They are not afraid of us. Just say

820
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: that one more time. If our listeners please hear what

821
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: in you know what? I'm nable to call you Scott

822
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: because in this capacity I want what you hear A

823
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: lieutenant colonel who has spent years in Afghanistan and defending

824
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: this country, say that one more time. It is really important.

825
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: This sinks in. People need to get their arms around

826
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: the uncomfortable truth of what you're saying. Yeah, when you

827
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: look at an enemy, you have to look at will

828
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: and capacity both. China has the capacity to attack America.

829
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: Russia has the capacity to attack attack America. Al Qaeda

830
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: has the capacity to attack America. Does China and Russia

831
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: have the will to unilaterally attack America? No, not right now.

832
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 2: The Islamist but because ultimately China and Russia and and

833
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 2: the people with power and money in those countries that

834
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 2: have the capacity to order an attack on America, they

835
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 2: also believe in self preservation.

836
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, I should have made that clear. Self preservation.

837
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 2: That's what green Bridge. That's it's it's strong right, But

838
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:03,479
Speaker 2: that's true. It's true.

839
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: You know what that is acting their own best entry,

840
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: act in our own absolutely.

841
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: Well, putin y'all may think he's a madman, but what

842
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 2: he is before he is anything, it's.

843
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: A self preservation in case calculating.

844
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 2: That's right, and same thing with the same thing with

845
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 2: all but it is different.

846
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: No, if you look at isis's the isis uh meta narrative?

847
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:24,919
Speaker 2: Right.

848
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: They they want to restore the seventh century caliphate, but

849
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: their ultimate goal is an end of day's scenario. It

850
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: is the apocalypse, it is the return of the profit,

851
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: and it is their solemn duty to usher that in

852
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: to create the conditions by which that final battle happens.

853
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: That is a meritive meta narrative that is in their

854
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: solar plexus. It is conditioned in them, and it is

855
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: a multi century narrative. You can you can chop down

856
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: all their leaders. You're it's like mowing the grass. That

857
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: narrative courses through them the same way our national narratives

858
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: used to course through us. Right, it runs strong in

859
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: their blood and they are relentless in the pursuit of

860
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: that narrative. Hence the will. Right when you look at

861
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:16,439
Speaker 1: Ben Lauden at nineteen hijackers attacking the World Trade Center,

862
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: the Pentagon and their other target, the Capitol, the audacity

863
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: of that attack. He knew what was coming, Right, He

864
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: killed Homage Sean Massoud, the leader of the Northern Alliance,

865
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: two days before nine to eleven, because he knew we

866
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: would go to the Northern Alliance and work with them.

867
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: He had two suicide bombers posing as cameramen that went

868
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,439
Speaker 1: in and interviewed Masud and smoked him on nine to nine.

869
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: Because he knew what we were gonna do, he wasn't

870
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: afraid of it. And that's what I'm trying to get

871
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: across the folks. So you're dealing with an enemy that

872
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: is extremely resilient, extremely good, and extremely driven and they

873
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: will not stop. The only antibody that And you know what,

874
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: if I thought that turning some of these places into

875
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: a parking lot or total war like we saw in

876
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: World War Two would actually do it, I'd probably say

877
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 1: let's go for it, right if that was the only court,

878
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,399
Speaker 1: But it won't. It actually fuels the narrative. The only

879
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: thing that I've seen work in my almost quarter of

880
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: a century doing this is local communities that serve as

881
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: an antibody to violent extremism.

882
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we need to say, as I hear you,

883
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 2: I want I cannot stand generalizations and painting with broad

884
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 2: brush the proverbial they is dangerous. It's dangerous in the

885
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 2: United States, is dangerous everywhere we are talking about the enemy.

886
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 2: The enemy is not an Afghanistan travel leader. No, it's

887
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 2: but people hear what you say. Yeah, And we got

888
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 2: to be so careful because I don't want people to

889
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 2: hear what you say and then they're think, oh, everyone

890
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: in Pakistan, Afghanistan. No, it is the enemy within those

891
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 2: Let's back it up. And if you take the word

892
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 2: that I said. I noticed I did not say Islamic

893
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:04,240
Speaker 2: violent extremist.

894
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: I said Islamist right. And this is the application of

895
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: a virulent strategy, meta narrative that is holistically violent right.

896
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 2: And and it is.

897
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: It is seventh century and natter itach is draconian, and

898
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: it is not representative of the broader uma. It's not

899
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: you know, it is it is. And that's why I

900
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: also was very specific in saying al Qaeda isis the Taliban.

901
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: These are groups that subscribe to a draconian narrative that

902
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,720
Speaker 1: has no place in civil society.

903
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 2: Much like the klu Klux Klan claiming Christianity an we

904
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 2: got to get our arms around as Americans. Obviously, every

905
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 2: Christian is not a klansman. Every every Muslim over there

906
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 2: is not part of these extremist groups. But claiming some

907
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 2: of that within their bounds is a is a smaller

908
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: sub sect of people. They're really dangerous.

909
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 1: That's why I didn't like the term war on terror.

910
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: That's it's like declaring a war on snipers or a

911
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: war on ambushes. You know, like, what does that even mean?

912
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: You know, I mean the enemy in this case are

913
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: is is longest violent extremist groups bent on destruction of

914
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: the West, and it's not going to stop. And so

915
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 1: where I'm trying to go with this is if you're

916
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: going to even just protect yourself at home, the best

917
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: and these guys set up shop in under governed, trust

918
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,240
Speaker 1: depleted places where they can operate.

919
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 2: With as a local population where they are.

920
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so rather than go in and strike these

921
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: places unilaterally, which is so difficult to do over the horizon,

922
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: doesn't work. You end up killing innocent people. And even

923
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: if you have a surgical strike team, I mean, there's

924
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 1: some of that that works, but the real antibody most

925
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: of the community that I've seen that are sanctuaries to

926
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: violent extremists. They don't want us there, but they don't

927
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: want them there either, So equip them. So be an

928
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: advisor and help these people stand out on their equip

929
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:16,240
Speaker 1: them with knowledge. But that is a multi generational, multi

930
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 1: decade But that's exactly the work the Green Preades. We've

931
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 1: been in Columbia fifty years. No one even knows it.

932
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,439
Speaker 2: We've got we still have bases in Europe from World

933
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 2: War Two for the same reasons. Yeah, And that concludes

934
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 2: part one of my conversation with Scott Man and I'm

935
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 2: telling you don't miss part two. It's available now. Together, guys,

936
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 2: we can change this country, but it starts with you.

937
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 2: I'll see in part two.