WEBVTT - Bill Gates' Source Code 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.560 Hi everyone. I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question. 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.560 Hi everyone, So happy to be here with mister Gates 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.519 and all of you. Very exciting. He's made the rounds already. 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.040 He's pretty much been everywhere, so we're very excited that 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.520 we have sort of a private ish audience with him. 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:42.440 And as you know, he is autographed a copy of 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:46.000 his memoir for everybody here, so you guys will have 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.839 fun reading it and talking about it on your various platforms. 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:54.120 You book influencers. You I know myself about writing a memoir. 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:57.440 How what an intense experience it is looking back on 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:00.720 your childhood, looking back on everything that is influenced you 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.440 as you grew And this is really about the first 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:07.920 part of Bill's life. So I'm really excited Bill. I 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:12.919 really enjoyed reading it, and it's the first of three volumes. 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.080 Holy cal you have a lot to say, don't you. 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:20.960 Yeah, first we were thinking I'll just write one, but 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:25.840 then I wasn't covering things in a good way, so 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:27.840 that really just didn't come together. And so it was 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:32.399 eighteen months ago I thought maybe I'll just do my 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.440 first twenty five years where I can really focus on 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:39.880 my parents and the great luck I had with friends 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:40.800 and when I was born. 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.720 So it starts really with your childhood growing up in 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.920 Seattle and goes all the way to your decision to 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:51.360 leave Harvard to commit yourself full time to building Microsoft 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:55.240 into one of the country's most consequential companies. I'm curious, 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:58.760 what did you learn going back in time? What did 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:02.240 you learn about yourself that you really didn't appreciate before. 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:08.800 Well, I don't look back much because the future, you know, 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:12.280 has lots of innovation and things that I'm kind of 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:17.720 rushing and working hard to try and achieve nowadays, mostly 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.480 through my foundation work. And so it was only as 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:26.040 I was about to turn seventy later this year that 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.080 I thought, no, it would be great to look back. 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:34.280 And you know, I always thought of my parents is 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.359 kind of amazing, each in kind of a different way. 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.360 But that really grew for me as I went through 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:46.960 this and talked to my sisters, made sure they had 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:50.799 the same views about things. And there are various points 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:54.960 where my parents really made great decisions about sending me 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.680 to a therapist or a private school, or give me 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.480 an immense amount of freedom and more than I'd say 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:03.840 any kid gets today. 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.239 I loved reading about your family tree, but I got 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.560 especially a big kick out of your gammy what you 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.040 called her your maternal grandmother, and she was kind of 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.760 a card shark and a family that was apparently obsessed 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:20.160 with card games. What kind of life lessons did you learn? 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:23.720 I love the fact when you beat her finally, there 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.840 wasn't a big celebration. I would have been such so obnoxious. 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.720 I would have been jumping around and dancing and you know, 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.840 making her feel really bad, But you kind of said 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.080 it just sort of went by, but you were still 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:39.320 very proud of that moment, right, Yeah. 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.640 I mean she won a high percentage of the time, 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.080 but she didn't really explain what her state machine was 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:50.800 that you know, as cards go by in coachcard Rumney 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.840 or gin or Bridge being the most complicated, but even 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:59.680 hearts there's quite a bit of strategy. And so it 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:01.800 took a number of years when I went from being, 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:06.320 you know, mostly loser to mostly a winner. And I 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:10.160 think she was a little chagrined that I caught on 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:12.360 because she never really explained her secret. 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.680 But weren't they that she really I mean, she really 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:20.719 understood her opponent's hands. What was her secret? Because I 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.000 love that you wrote. Card Plane taught me that no 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:27.479 matter how complex or mysterious something seems, you often can 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.799 figure it out. The world can be understood. 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:37.160 Well in some of these games simply having an exact 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.560 memory for what cards have gone by and you know 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:47.440 what they've picked up. I actually wrote down mathematically optimal 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:49.200 strategy for a number of. 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:50.039 These things you did. 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:56.520 And you know people weren't that interested in it, but 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.960 the fact that if you thought hard enough they were 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:06.160 is the best play. And that it's the subtlety of it. 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.039 And so the person who's really spent the time, you 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.200 know when you walk into the game you have an 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:14.159 incredible edge. 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.800 Your dad, Bill Junior, was a lawyer. Your mom, Mary, 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:21.919 served on the boards of several corporations and nonprofit organizations. 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.280 You were the middle kid. You had an older sister 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.640 and a younger sister coincidentally the same as your kids, right, 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.640 But looking back on your childhood, what quality do you 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:32.839 think you got from each of your parents? 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:39.160 Well, my dad was mostly just setting an amazing example. 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.160 He was always calm, he always knew the answer, He 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:47.840 never acted out of emotion. The world was a predictable 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:52.560 place that you could always think things through my mom. 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.840 I spent way more time with because my dad would 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:57.800 go off to work in the morning, and you know, 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.479 when he came back, we'd have dinner and talk about 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.240 mostly what he was working on. But you know, all 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:07.280 day long, my mom's saying, you know, get up here, 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:09.880 get dressed, keep your elbows off. 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.320 She was kind of a tiger mom, wasn't she a. 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.839 Little bit uh? You know, she did it kind of 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.839 in an implicit way where when she'd speak about other parents, 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.520 she'd say, oh, they must be so disappointed, you know, 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:28.839 their son didn't go to college or that, you know, 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:33.640 he never learned his table manners. And I said to 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:35.320 my mom, you know, you you told me to go 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.760 to Harvard, and she said, I know, I never said that, 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.479 But then I explained, no, you really did say it. 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:44.240 You didn't have to in this indirect way of you know, 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:49.600 what what your values were. So that was an intense relationship. 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.440 You know. I I confused her a bit because I would, 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.560 you know, stay in my room and read a lot. 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:00.880 And there were period of years where I was a 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.559 bit rebellious and not really thinking. 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.080 You write a lot about the tension between the two 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:10.720 of you. You say I could go days without speaking, 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:14.240 emerging from my room only for meals in school. Call 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.880 me to dinner, I ignored. You tell me to pick 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:21.680 up my clothes. Nope, clear the table. Nothing built, no offense. 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:23.440 But you sound like you were a real asshole. 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:29.480 There were there were about two years where a lot 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:30.320 of I thought. 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.960 He would crack a smile at least at that. It's 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.920 just like, I. 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:42.160 Don't think I did any permanent damage. But eventually they 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:47.920 sent me to a therapist and he, you know, really 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.760 got my trust and gave me a bunch of books 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.120 to read, and you know, just kind of explained that 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:59.200 putting my energy against uh my parents, mostly my mom, 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:00.840 you know, that was kind of a waste of my 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.000 time and that there wasn't any you know, grand victory 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:07.360 to be had there because they were on my side, 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:15.040 and that really was super helpful, and so I gave 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.760 up all that you know, non compliance. 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.880 See also doctor Cressy was his name. He could get 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:25.800 your parents some good advice and that was basically a 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:28.680 little to their dismay. You know, you talk about in 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:33.120 the book to give you more freedom, right to kind 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:38.359 of let you be yourself, and you found that freedom 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.199 through hikes with a group of how shall I say it, 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:46.720 fellow nerds, and I was amazed that you got through one. 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:51.160 I loved reading about this one miserably cold hike that 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:53.200 you know, you guys were up to your knees or 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.880 maybe even higher in snow. It was just horrible conditions 0:08:56.960 --> 0:09:00.920 and you got through it by writing code in your 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:05.160 head for hours. Tell us about that and how kind 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.680 of you had this alternative reality in a way that 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:11.559 helped you cope. 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.280 Yeah, the Pasitting Northwest where I grew up, there were 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:20.160 a lot of great hikes, and through Boy Scouts, I 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.360 got in with the group where we took a lot 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.960 of hikes. I wasn't hiking so much that I love, 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.959 but just having this different group of friends and kind 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:31.320 of challenging ourselves all. 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:35.000 Took on different roles, Like you were the fire builder, right. 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:40.719 Right. I wasn't a great hiker. And in fact, the 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:44.199 day where I did this software work, they had all 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:46.640 out voted me to take the long route because they 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:50.080 thought it was more scenic or something. And we carried 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:53.240 these very heavy packs and I was pretty scrawny, so 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.080 you know, in order to just not dwell on the 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.520 rain or the switchbacks. You know, I started thinking through 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:06.040 a very complex piece of what's called the Basic Interpreter 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:11.040 that almost three years later, I drawn that knowledge for 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:15.400 Microsoft's Area first product. But the idea of really good software, 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:20.640 it's kind of elegant, how small and fast it can be. 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.440 So I really put my mind to that, and you know, 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:28.160 spent about five hours really making it one of the 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.440 best piece of software I ever wrote. 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.040 And that took your mind off the miserable condition. 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:37.719 Yeah, then I didn't notice all those switchbacks that we 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:39.000 were going up and down. 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.480 You know. You also write that if you were growing 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:45.640 up today, you'd likely be diagnosed as autistic, and I 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.520 thought it was interesting that you said you often rocked 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.120 when you were sort of concentrating, and it's something you 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:54.120 still do today when you're deep in thought or focused 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:58.440 on something. When did you realize that this might be 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:02.200 the case, that you might beyond the spectrum in some way. 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.320 Well, when I was growing up, that term just didn't exist. 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:11.040 I mean, autism was a pretty narrow definition in terms 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:19.000 of not ever developing full social skills. And it wasn't 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.000 until I was an adult in a Q and A 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.040 session and somebody said that, you know, maybe I was 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.520 rocking at the time, and I thought, well, that's interesting. 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.480 You know, I don't want to say no, because you know, 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.200 what am I doing saying that I'm better or that 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.640 would be awful or and then you know, some of 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:42.720 the things do fit my social skills. We were slow 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:48.600 to develop that ability to concentrate for you know, hours 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:51.240 on end, you know, read more books than the other kids, 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.160 you know, which ended up being a strength that's very 0:11:55.280 --> 0:12:00.040 characteristic of that type of mind. So you know, it 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:05.160 wasn't like some deficit for me, even though some things 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:08.559 I had to work hard to to get decent. 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.320 And the fact you acknowledge that you're you talk about 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:16.360 your neurodiversity and you say it was also a superpower, right, 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:20.640 I mean talk about that some of these qualities that 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.200 might be seen as you know, as I said, on 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:28.720 the spectrum or differently abled or whatever, actually work to 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:30.800 your advantage. 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.200 Yeah. Well, that term nerd, you know, you never know 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:36.920 that it's being used as a positive or a negative. 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:39.400 When I was growing up, it was kind of a 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.200 negative about you know, young boys like me who would 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:48.360 uh just go off and obsess about programming or any 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:52.120 kind of technical thing, and that you know we were boring, 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.360 uh and not important, you know, then eventually became oh 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:57.400 you're a nerd. Wow. 0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:59.880 I think it's a compliment. I think it means like 0:12:59.880 --> 0:13:04.320 a brainiac, but probably not not a player. You know 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:04.840 what I'm saying. 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:09.120 Okay, well that's I'm ready. 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:10.920 You'll accept that. 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:19.800 Definitely. It's definitely specializing and wanting to read a lot 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:24.680 about something, which in my case included learning how to 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:28.559 write software. At a time where computers were very expensive 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.199 and it was very rare for people to have time 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.520 on them. Through a series of experiences, each of which 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:38.320 kind of built on the last, I got feedback about, Okay, 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:43.040 here's how you write even better software. So even by 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.479 the time I graduate from high school, I've had thousands 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:51.200 of hours and with my intense focus, you know, I 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:57.440 knew a lot about software and simultaneously the magic of 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:03.120 these chips microprocessors making computing go from being very expensive 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:07.679 almost free. Uh. You know, with the help of Paul Allen, 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:11.520 we can see, Hey, the software stuff is going to 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:16.600 be the key ingredient. He wanted to do a company. 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.760 We actually did the hardware, but I insisted we just 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.960 do the software, and that you know, we were in 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.760 the right place at the right time, and and you 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:30.880 know built because of that. Other people just didn't didn't 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:31.680 see what we saw. 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.320 If you want to get smarter every morning with a 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:43.640 breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:47.040 wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:59.720 Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. Before 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:05.200 you to Harvard, you had a defining moment in your life. 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.240 You say, unlike a lot of successful people, you had 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:12.160 a relatively easy childhood. I mean taking out the part 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:14.720 of giving your mom a hard time. But you know, 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.080 you suffered the loss of your very, very good friend, 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.080 and you write about it quite movingly. Kent Evans. He 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.040 was killed in a mountain climbing accident when the two 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.200 of you were sixteen years old, and I'm curious if 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.840 you could talk about the impact that had and how 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:33.560 it changed your perspective. 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:39.600 Yeah. So when the computer arrives at this school, Lakeside School, 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.120 there's four of us, My best friend Ken Toy talk 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.720 to every night, and these too older boys, one of 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.960 whom was Paul, who we stayed there even after it 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:55.880 wasn't exciting anymore. We were just really obsessed. 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.080 You would say, out to your house to go to 0:15:58.120 --> 0:15:58.880 the computer lab. 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:04.080 Yeah nights, yeah, yeah. And so Kent, you know, was 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.600 very outward looking. You know, he had looked up what 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:13.560 did generals make, what did ambassadors make? What did professors make? Uh? 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:17.280 You know, he got me reading Fortune magazine, you know, 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.400 and so he had this sense of, Okay, what we 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:21.760 need to think now on what we're going to be 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:27.320 doing later. And that was a revelation to me. And 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:29.240 I'd been a bit of a goof off and he 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:35.240 encouraged me not to be so lackadaisical because he was 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:39.680 very diligent in everything he did. You know. So we 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:43.240 were thinking, okay, we're gonna go out there and solve 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.920 big problems together. And he signed up for a mountain 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:51.440 climbing class in our junior of high school. Uh. He 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.520 was less coordinated than I was, so nobody expected that, 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.920 but his parents kind of went along because Kent had 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:04.359 strong views about things, and you know, he we talked 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:08.199 on a Friday night like we always did, and he 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.040 was going to be gone for the weekend. And then 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.960 that Sunday, they head master of the school called me 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.400 and said that not only kn't been injured, but he'd 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:21.919 actually died, which you know, when you're at that age, okay, 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:25.240 grandparents maybe, but you know, people your own age are 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:29.520 kind of invulnerable, and so that was quite a shock. 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.879 You know. The only thing that got me, you know, 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.320 back thinking for was, you know, when I would spend 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:40.919 time with Kent's parents. You know, it was kind of 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:45.280 an irreparable loss for them. They he was amazing to 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:49.439 them and to me, and so you know, I was 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.960 lucky that all those things Kent had taught me, you know, 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.840 I could go back and do. In fact, I that 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.640 summer I had committed to do a very complicated piece 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:04.560 of soft for school scheduling. So I called Paul, who'd 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.200 gone off for a first year of college, and then 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.679 he came back and that's sort of where he and 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:13.679 I spent a lot of time together, and you know, 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:18.640 eventually that led to us founding Microsoft about three years. 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:20.880 In fact, there's a scene in the book where Paul 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.639 Allen bursts into your dorm room at Harvard holding the 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:28.160 January nineteen seventy five issue of Popular Electronics with this 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:32.600 headline project breakthrough world's first mini computer kit to rival 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:36.720 commercial models, And he said to you it's happening without us. 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.080 That was a real kick in the pants for both 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:39.920 of you, wasn't it. 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.080 Yeah, I'd made I'd help Paul get a job back 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:49.240 in Boston. So he was on leaven We were just 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:53.760 brainstorming all the time about this insight, about how magical 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.919 these chips were and what they would do and you know, 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:01.320 different ideas, and just stunned that other people didn't see 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.600 how big this would be. But still thinking through, Okay, 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.760 what was our role in all of it? And so yeah, 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:12.199 when he bought that magazine at Harvard Square and you know, 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:16.320 it's a cold Boston winter, and we said, okay, we 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.160 are going to be in on the ground floor. And 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.600 now it's happening. And so even though I loved my 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:26.280 time at Harvard, you know, that's when I had to 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:28.240 make the plan. Okay, I'm about to. 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.920 Go on unless your mom bummed out that you quit Harvard. 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.720 Well I didn't quit. I mean you go on leave. 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.560 You know, so if your company fails, you know, they 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.560 don't like shun you. Oh you had a failed company, 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.840 or oh you were gone for a year. It would 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:49.280 have been fine. You know, I didn't have you know, 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:54.080 kids to support or anything like that. And you know, 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:59.760 my computer skills were quite valuable, so I didn't think 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.840 of it as risky at all. She might have been 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:07.120 a bit worried about it, because she always wondered if 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:11.600 I was taking the wrong turn that she needed to 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:18.159 advise me on. But you know, we started small, and 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:19.760 then a few years later, at the end of the 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:24.240 book is when I'm nineteen seventy nine, I've decided to 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:28.200 move Microsoft back to Seattle, and you know, we only 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:32.320 have about eighteen people, but we're on our way to 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:34.480 be sort of the software. 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:36.800 And the book ends when you're around twenty three. You 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.320 get into your Porsche. Nice nice ride for a college kid. 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.800 By the way, oh, I was a used nine eleven, 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:46.679 and you headed back to Seattle, as you said, to 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:50.199 build Microsoft. But now fifty years later you've said you're 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:56.840 thinking of quote digital empowerment as an unadulterated good has changed, 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:01.920 And I'm curious back then, Bill, if you ever envisioned 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:08.520 technology being as transformative and as negative a force in 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.840 society in some cases that it's become. 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:20.240 In the early days, it felt like a pure, unadult, 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:25.560 traded good thing that you could type documents and do 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:29.760 spreadsheets and communicate with people all over the world, and 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:32.800 it was just Okay, humans do good things, and now 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:36.919 we're going to do them faster and better. And so 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:43.720 that naivete I keep that literally until social networking comes along. 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.239 In fact, we thought the biggest problem with computers was 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:50.960 that not everybody had access, So we need to make 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.280 them even cheaper and get them into the inner city 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.440 and get them into developing countries. So this digital divide 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:02.280 was something that I worked on, you know, putting computers 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:06.960 in libraries, and Microsoft also did a lot on that. 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:11.480 Only later did the idea that some of these technologies 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:17.040 can actually accentuate human weakness, and you can get people 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:20.400 who believe crazy things that normally would have to kind 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:23.400 of give it up because they can't find each other. 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:26.040 But now, boy, they have found each other. You know, 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:29.280 for crazy idea A, they've got a quorum. For crazy 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.040 idea B, they've got a quorum, and all day long 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:36.679 they're enjoying being off in that you know, sort of 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:43.440 non nonfactual but self reinforcing group. You know. So yes, 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:48.520 it's only maybe ten years ago that that became clear. 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:53.040 So is disinformation the biggest peril? Do you think to 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.920 modern technology or what about sort of I'm sure you've 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:01.280 read Jonathan Height. I just forgot his name. Wait, thank you, 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:05.679 SJO Anxious generation? What most concerned you about technology? And 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:08.000 while we're on the subject, how do you feel about AI? 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:12.919 Is that something you're excited about or more concerned about? 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:19.520 Well, I'm extremely excited about it, but it's a little 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:22.280 bit scary in terms of how we're going to end 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:27.479 up using it. It is way beyond anything that's come before. 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:31.720 You know, the revolution I was part of is about 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:35.800 computing going from being expensive to basically being free. Okay, 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:40.320 what do you do with it? Now? It's about intelligence 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:43.879 going from being scarce and you have to go to 0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:46.960 college and learn all these things because we have a 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:54.840 shortage of engineers or doctors or whatever, and now intelligence 0:23:54.880 --> 0:23:58.040 will be essentially free. We're not there yet. We don't 0:23:58.040 --> 0:24:03.720 have robots. The accuracy of these machines h still kind 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:06.320 of surprise us. That they make mistakes that are very 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:10.399 different than the kind of mistake humans make. So there's refinement, 0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:15.880 but it's happening quite quickly. So when you think about 0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:24.240 today's problems, you know, climate Alzheimer's, HIV, vaccine, AI is 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:28.320 phenomenal in that it will accelerate those advances. You know, 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:33.280 we will have medical advice for people in poor countries, 0:24:33.359 --> 0:24:37.040 will have great advice for farmers about when to plant 0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:41.320 what to plant, better than even rich farmers have today. 0:24:42.000 --> 0:24:46.400 But overall for society as it you know, changes job 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:51.919 markets and hopefully frees up time. Exactly who benefits or 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:55.800 how government adjusts to it, and how you know, people 0:24:55.800 --> 0:25:00.600 with negative intent use these new tools, I'd say it's 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:07.760 a cloudier future. And and so AI brings wonderful advances 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:14.119 and some challenge for humanity. You know. Harari in nexas 0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:19.240 says that we need to put AI aside and learn 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:22.080 how to get along with each other, and then we 0:25:22.119 --> 0:25:25.919 should turn to this wonderful magic box since we'll be 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:29.840 mature enough to use it the right way. You know, 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:34.399 that's not likely to happen. So we've got, you know, 0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:38.000 a need to get everybody involved in thinking through how 0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:39.159 do we want to shape. 0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:41.600 Well, that's a great segue to my next question. I 0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:44.399 thought we could talk about politics because there's nothing really 0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:47.760 going on in that department. What did you think when 0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:49.879 you saw this whole row of tech bros at the 0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:52.800 inauguration front and Center. What did you say to yourself 0:25:52.840 --> 0:25:53.680 when you witness that? 0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:04.280 You know they make their own decisions. 0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:07.080 You must have thought something though when you saw that. 0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:15.000