1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 2: To bring you down to earth a little bit. You 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 2: could argue that the success of Singapore has been based 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 2: around two things, being a bastion of free trade and 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 2: also being somewhere between East and West. And now you 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 2: have protectionism on the rise, and we have that struggle 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 2: between China and America. 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 3: No worries US, it does. 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 4: I think it worries us all. 10 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 2: But when Zijingping and Donald Trump met in South Korea, 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: you called it a temporary truce, and I wonder, you've 12 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 2: just seen this spatch going on between Japan and China 13 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 2: over Taiwan. How precarious does Asia feel at the moment? 14 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: I thought, first of all, going back to the meeting 15 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: between the two leaders, Presidency and President Trump, it was 16 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: a good meeting. 17 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 3: And while it may be. 18 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 1: A temporary truce, a temporary stabilization in the relationship, it's 19 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: much needed and it will provide guard rails for the 20 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: two powers to you know, engage one another. It will 21 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: open up channels of communication. It's not just once off, 22 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: because the two leaders will meet probably four times next year. 23 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: Because President Trump is si he would visit China. Presidency 24 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: will probably visit back, and then there's APEG intention and 25 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: G twenty in Miami. So many opportunities for engagement, and 26 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: it's much needed for stability. The intense competition and rivalry 27 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: it will continue. I'm sure the mutual suspicion and distrust remains, 28 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: but the guard rails will ensure that the rivalry does 29 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:45,479 Speaker 1: not slide into a full decoupling or worse, confrontation and conflict. 30 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: So on that, I'm slightly hopeful after seeing the rapport 31 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: the engagement that they took, the two of them had, 32 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: at least in the near term. 33 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: Do you think China won that particular round? It seemed 34 00:01:58,200 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: that America gave way on most things. 35 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: I'm not here the referee, whether one side one or another. 36 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: All I want is the both to coexist and engage constructively. 37 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: Now on Japan and China, we all want stability in Asia. 38 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that's of course something it's in everyone's interests, 39 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: so we certainly hope that both countries will find ways 40 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:25,839 Speaker 1: to de escalate the current issue. The China Japan relationship 41 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: is important economically, it's important China is Japan's largest trading partner, 42 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: but it's a complex relationship. Partly because of the US 43 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: China strategic competition, so everything that China and Japan has 44 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: is seen through that larger prism. They also have disputes 45 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: in the Sinkapu Islands, and of course it's also because 46 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: of the overhang of the history of the Second World War, 47 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: which still remains between the two countries. We hope the 48 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: two countries will find ways to resolve these very complex 49 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: issues and move forward. Southeast Asia has done that with 50 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: Japan as why as the history is concerned, it has 51 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: taken some time, but with the passage of time, with 52 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: the passing of generations, the feelings are not the same, 53 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: and we have put the history aside and we're moving forward. 54 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: And it's quite striking that survey after survey shows that 55 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 1: Japan is the number one trusted great power in Southeast Asia, 56 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: and so Singapore and all the Southeast Asian countries support 57 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: Japan playing a bigger role in our region, including on 58 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: the security front, because we think that provides for some 59 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: stability in the region. 60 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 2: All the same, do you think poking the dragon in 61 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 2: the way that the Prime Minister did, do you think 62 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: that was advisable? 63 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 3: Well, I'm not her advisor. 64 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: I can't just to judge the wisdom of I can't 65 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: judge the wisdom of whether or not you know what 66 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: she said was wise to do. But it has been 67 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: said it can't be unsaved now, yes, so it is there. 68 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: There will be a difference of views, clearly, and I 69 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: think both sides. I think on the Japanese side they 70 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: are clearly wanting to bring things to stabilize the relationship 71 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: and not cause this to escalate further. And I hope 72 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: China will feel the same way. And while there may 73 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: be differences, you know, the two countries can still get 74 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: along and work together. 75 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: The current atmosphere, what do you think the chances are 76 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 2: of a war over Taiwan. 77 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: We've always said that we don't think this is likely 78 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: to happen in the you know, foreseeable future, at least 79 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: in terms of a unilateral, unprovoked action by China. 80 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 3: You've asked this question. 81 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: Repeatedly to my predecessors, to me, if you've been right 82 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: and our views remain the same, it is an important 83 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 1: issue for China Taiwan. It is the raiders of red lines. 84 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: But I don't see and we don't see it happening 85 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: unless something happens that really crosses China's rate lines in 86 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: terms of, for example, a unilateral move by Taiwan to 87 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: declare independence, because then it becomes two Chinas, not one China. 88 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: I think America's policy here also is very critical, and 89 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: America has always been consistent and very careful of its 90 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: policy that there should not be any unilateral change to 91 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: the status core. And number two that while America defends 92 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: or supports Taiwan's ability to defend itself, it does so 93 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: in accordance to the Taiwan Relations Act and to America's 94 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: One China policy. It's a very carefully crafted statement, and 95 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: up to now, across different administrations, America has broadly speaking, 96 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: maintained a consistent. 97 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 3: Approach with that policy, and if it does so, I. 98 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: Think there will be a good chance of US maintaining 99 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: peace and stability in the Taiwan streets. 100 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: You also talked about a post American order, which sort 101 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: of interested me because it implies that America's moved towards 102 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: isolationism and protection is not just Donald Trump, that even 103 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 2: after he goes back to mor Lago or Heaven or 104 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: maybe he doesn't know the difference, that America no longer 105 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: will be a champion of globalization no longer be a 106 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 2: sort of partner that you can rely on in the 107 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 2: same way as you did. Do you really think that 108 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 2: America has gone We hope not. 109 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: When I said post American order, I was referring to 110 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: the forces that are driving us towards a more multi 111 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: polar world. For the unipolar moment, where America was the 112 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: clear was the leader that helped guide Underwright the global system. 113 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: That moment I think is over, so that all rules 114 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: that are not look no longer apply, but the new 115 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: ones have not been written. But as we transit into 116 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: this new multi polar world, it's not as though every 117 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: pole remains the same. America is still the biggest, most 118 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: powerful country and still maintains America's leadership remains vital, and 119 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: we certainly hope that America will be actively engaged in 120 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: the world. Maybe not now, maybe not with this administration, 121 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: but there will be a time in America can tick 122 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: up its role, be actively engaged, constructive, and continue to 123 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: have good relations with all its key partners. America's role 124 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: is critical for stability and continued prosperity in the world, 125 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: and the world needs America to behave like that To. 126 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: Look at from the outside, America's policy towards China seems 127 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 2: somewhat schizophrenic. On the one hand, there is a very 128 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: strong desire to keep China in check. On the other hands, 129 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: most people would say, you keep a country like China 130 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,239 Speaker 2: in check by bringing all the other allies, all the 131 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 2: people in the region onto the side. And yet, as 132 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: you pointed out, when tariffs happened, you know, Trump has 133 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 2: hit everyone with a variety of things which were would 134 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: not seem like ally like behavior. 135 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: You know, I visit China regularly just to find out 136 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: how things are developing, and all the actions that America 137 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: takes vis a vis China has in a way only 138 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: strengthened their resolve to work even harder, to move faster 139 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: on technology, self sufficiency, and to they're determined to grow. 140 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,839 Speaker 1: So one China commentator tells me there's nothing America can 141 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: do to stop China. Only China can stop China. And 142 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: when I heard that, it reminded me of something I 143 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: heard a long time ago about the US too. There's 144 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: you know, Abraham Lincoln once it if destruction be our lot, 145 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: let us Americans be the author and finisher of it. 146 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 3: And and so it strikes me that. 147 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 2: I think shortly before a civil war, but so it 148 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 2: may be rather bad. 149 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 1: But it strikes me that in this great rivalry, everyone 150 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: is focused on what one country does to another, but 151 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: rarely the fates of these two great powers will be 152 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: determined by their own people. At the end of the day, 153 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: Americans decide Americans future. Chinese people decide Chinese future. That's 154 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: what it comes down to. And it's their actions, their 155 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: agency that determines domestic reforms, that determines the direction that 156 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: these countries will take. 157 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: In terms of Singapore's position in that world. And I 158 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 2: suppose if I was to look at Southeast Asia, I 159 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 2: must have been coming here for three decades or around that. 160 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: When I first came, I think there was a general 161 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: presumption that if things came ahead with China, most of 162 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 2: Southeast Asia would probably stick with the West. You look 163 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: at what's happened over the past year. You know that's 164 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 2: become Southeast Asia, including Singapore, has become home to many 165 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 2: more Chinese companies. As I said, Donald Trump hit the 166 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 2: allies with tariffs. You had o'biden wasn't that kind to 167 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 2: you either. Your first visit, your first visit as Prime 168 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: minister was to Beijing, not to outside Asian was to Beijing, 169 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 2: not Washington. 170 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 4: I mean, is America losing this region. 171 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: If put the request to visit the Washington waiting for 172 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: the dates. But but I wouldn't read too much into 173 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: these sorts of things and whether that's. 174 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: That's indicative, isn't it. You would imagine an American president 175 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 2: would want to see. 176 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: What where, where I go, what countries I visit, and 177 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: I will also when then say that in the past 178 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: it's very clear cut that countries would site with one 179 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: one site the West, and now site with China and 180 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 1: things flip. I think that's too simplistic a portrayer. There 181 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: is no doubt America's actions over the recent period has 182 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: impacted America's standing in Southeast Asia. All the surveys would 183 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,719 Speaker 1: suggest that, and it's very clear cut. But I think 184 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: there's still tremendous goodwill and desire for Arsian countries to 185 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: engage the US. President Trump came for the Asian Summit meeting. 186 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: He presided over the peace accord between Cambodia and Thailand, 187 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: and then he sat down for a meeting with all 188 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: the Asian leaders, patiently listening to each one engaging and 189 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: listening to each one and at the end of all 190 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: the interventions that the America and him personally is committed 191 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: to Asian I think that's well received by Arsian. In 192 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: the previous administration, Gina is here, Secretary Raymondo. We worked 193 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: on INDO, the IPEF Indo Pacific Economic Framework under the 194 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: Biden administration and many South these Asian countries welcome there 195 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: because America is still the largest investor in this part 196 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: of the world in terms of FDI, and all the 197 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: countries look forward to having more linkages with America, more 198 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: engagement with America, more investments from the US. So yes, 199 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: the America standing as sticking the hit, that's no doubt. 200 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: But we hope America can recover from this, and we 201 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: would like to see America recovering from this. 202 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 4: Just on that. 203 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: You've spent quite a lot of time though talking about 204 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 2: a multipolar world, and one way you've tried to I 205 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 2: suppose bring together what might be described as a coalition 206 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 2: of the willing of kind of free trading countries that 207 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 2: would deepen ties and that would sort of get on 208 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 2: with the business of globalization whilst America and China go 209 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: about building walls of different sources, but that particular way, 210 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 2: you know, what can you do with that? In practice 211 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 2: you've accumulated a group of countries, what can you actually do? 212 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 2: It's the sort of is it just about having slightly 213 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 2: better documentation and things? 214 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 4: What is the end of that? 215 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: Let me put it this way, the stable multilateral framework 216 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: that we were all familiar with is unraveling. That framework 217 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 1: was optimized for trade efficiency. In today's world, countries are 218 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: more concerned about security and resilience. So countries everywhere are 219 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: prepared to accept some inefficiency, higher costs in Writturn for 220 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: higher security and resilience. But this is now being done unilaterally, 221 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: country by country taking its own actions, and that's just 222 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: not sustainable. In the worst case, you'll end up with 223 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: something that like what happened after the Smooth Holly terrorists 224 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties. Someone does something, another one retaliates. 225 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: There will be a dynamic where it's just escalating and 226 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: before too long we will end up with devastating consequences. 227 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: On the other hand, we know that the WTO, which 228 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: was meant to solve these problems isn't working. We would 229 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: like to see a new framework in place. It's not 230 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: easy to get that happen now, but ideally a new 231 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: framework that finds ways in which countries can legitimately exercise 232 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: and protect their own national interests, but with restrain, with 233 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: some shared rules, and not on the basis that you 234 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: can unilaterally do things to coerce another country or to 235 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: punish another country, which is somewhat happening now. 236 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 3: So how do we get there? 237 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: And I think it's very hard for all of us 238 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: to imagine ways to get there, but I think we 239 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: should not give up trying. And that's what we would 240 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: like to do, which is work with like minded countries, 241 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: some of the you know, we have a future of 242 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: investment and trade partnership with fifteen or so entries doing this, 243 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: but also working with the WTO, working with regional groupings 244 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: like the CPTPP and the EU, and all of these 245 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: efforts ultimately are not just about tariffs. 246 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 3: They are about setting new norms, new rules. 247 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: Of the road that would allow us to facilitate trade 248 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: and investments and find some way to ensure supply chains 249 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: remain resilient and secure. And in a way we are 250 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: playing the foundations for a new multilateral framework that may 251 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: come later on. 252 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 2: I sign look to saw the future of Investment Trade 253 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 2: Partnership fit P as it's known, and the members include 254 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 2: gloopi Is, Brunei, Costa, Chile and Liechtenstein, Morocco, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, Ruanda, Singapore, Switzerland, 255 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 2: the UA and Uruguay, which is a fantastic kind of 256 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 2: World Cup group to be in. Well, it doesn't feel 257 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 2: like the beginnings of a big trade. 258 00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: Blow, I know, but don't set the small stuff. You 259 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: know how the TPP started and the CPP started P 260 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: four very small countries, four tiny economies came together in 261 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: the P four that became the TPPP and TPP and 262 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: when America decided not to continue, we had the CPTPP. 263 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: So great things can start from small places, including Singapore. 264 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 2: What about what about what about something you've already what 265 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 2: about something you've already got, which is Asian and you 266 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 2: are next year No. Twenty twenty seven, you've become take 267 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 2: over the chairmanship for it, and you look at Asian 268 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 2: as you say, it's been very successful at preventing conflicts. 269 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 4: It's become a kind of grouping. 270 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 2: When when you tried to negotiate with Trump as a 271 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 2: group piece like sort of pushed it aside and made 272 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 2: you negotiate, negotiate one with each other. I wondered, is 273 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: there a way making Asian into something bigger, something deeper. 274 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 2: You know, the moment it's based wholly round consensus. Could 275 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 2: you ever move to something like a majority agreement instead? 276 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 2: I hate to mention the words European Union in a 277 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 2: good light, but if you were to take it a. 278 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 4: Little bit closer to the European. 279 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: Union, we certainly want to integrate faster and bring together 280 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: the Single Market. I mean, there's so much that still 281 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: needs to be done, but we also have to recognize 282 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: that why diversity of Oursian countries at different levels of development, 283 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: and so it's we move as fast as we can. 284 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: I would say that it was not so much that 285 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: the US didn't want to negotiate with Arzian collectively. It's 286 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: just impossible given the diversity in Urson RCM, but not 287 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 1: be able to negotiate a trade deal with America as 288 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: a collective. It had to be country by country. We 289 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: are not quite there yet to negotiate deals like that collectively, 290 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: but Ursian has its advantages and strengths. It's when we 291 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: talk about US centrality for example, It's not as though 292 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: it means Arcion dominates everything, but it means Arcion has 293 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: pooling power as a convener. And precisely because of the 294 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: fracturing of the global economy that we see now at 295 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,239 Speaker 1: the uncertainties, more and more major powers would like to 296 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: do strengthen their links with ARSON. EU's interested in an 297 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: FDA with US, the GCC, We've been talking to them. 298 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: Canada is interested in an FTA with US too. So 299 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: we are discussing these initiatives very seriously and hopefully when 300 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: I mean we'll do this next year when Philippines is 301 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: chaired and when Singapore chairs R in twenty twenty seven, 302 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: we hope we can continue to build on the foundations 303 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: and make progress. 304 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 2: So the way in which asion we grow, we'll probably 305 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 2: be going broader rather than deeper. 306 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 4: You're not going to end up with a. 307 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 3: We have to do both. I think we have to. 308 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: We have to go deeper as well. But it's just 309 00:18:55,359 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: going deeper takes time. It's it's not straightforward, and you know, 310 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: countries will be able to move at different paces, and 311 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: in some instances we may very well say the countries 312 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: that are able to move faster do first. 313 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 3: I wouldn't rule that out. 314 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 2: When we talked about the region, you know, you said 315 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 2: you didn't think there was the war coming on or 316 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 2: anything like that, but there is, there is. Do you 317 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 2: think in the end, country like Singapore will have to 318 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 2: choose between China and America. You've managed to avoid that. 319 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 3: So fa another favorite question. 320 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 2: Yes, it's coming that way. Journalists are notoriously un original. 321 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,719 Speaker 2: But the problems don't change, no choices arguably getting bigger. 322 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: The pressures will always be there. The great powers say, 323 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: we don't want you to choose, but of course each 324 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 1: one wants us to be a closer friend to them, 325 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: and that's always The tension is always there. The pressures 326 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: will always be there. But at the end of the day, 327 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: we don't have to choose. Really, we have to mean 328 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: it's not issue by issue. There will be some instances 329 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: where we look at the issue and we so have 330 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: happens that the particular position we take is the same 331 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: as the US, for example, or as China for example. 332 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,719 Speaker 1: But it's not from the lens of choosing one versus 333 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: the other. It's from the lens of Singapore's national interest, 334 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: and that that will always be the case for US, 335 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: and it's the same not just for Singapore, it's the 336 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: same in Arsian. Arsian countries feel the same way. We 337 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: have been the arena for proxy wars before. It's been 338 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: such a painful experience. We don't want that to happen again. 339 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: And so Arsian will continue to be fiercely independent, not 340 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: so much non aligned, but multiple aligned. You know, engage 341 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: with all the key players. 342 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 2: On that on that subject, you know, war, but there's 343 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 2: a lot of Cold war going on. And there's been 344 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 2: this issue about state sponsored cyber attacks. Yeah, people interfering 345 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 2: the election. Your party complains about that in the election 346 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 2: you won. You've had cyber attacks and you're going to 347 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 2: adjust that, think your foreign interference law further. And I wondered, 348 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 2: are there any particular countries you're worried about? Is it China, Malaysia, 349 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 2: Indonesia or all the above. 350 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: We don't call out our adverse abuses, not who they are. 351 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 4: It's a good way to be around. 352 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 3: Can I ask a bit about not naive? 353 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 2: Can I ask about Singapore as a financial hub. You've 354 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 2: had this on rush of money coming here. You've had 355 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 2: this big push to lure people here. The family offices, 356 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 2: you see many of them here, a lot of wealthy 357 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 2: people coming here. 358 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 4: And you get two issues from that. 359 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 2: And the first one is this issue of inequality, which 360 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 2: I know the Genia coefficient has got better, so that 361 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 2: in income. 362 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 3: Terms, in income terms, income. 363 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 2: Terms getting better, But there is this Every time I 364 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 2: come here, people talk about inequality more. And I wondered, 365 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 2: you've already introduced taxes on luxury cars and properties, but 366 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 2: do you see Singapore moving towards other things a capital 367 00:21:58,240 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 2: gains tax, for instance. 368 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 3: Two separate issues. 369 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: Really, because wealth management, Singapore is a financial center, I 370 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: think we can grow in terms of wealth management. Family 371 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: officers may set up here. They are not Singaporeans. They 372 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, have their officers here. They manage your funds 373 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: out of Singapore. We welcome that it creates jobs for Singaporeans. 374 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: I think that's a good thing and we can explain 375 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: that to Singaporeans. Sometimes it creates frictions, especially when their 376 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: ostentatious shows of our and we have just to remind them. 377 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: You know, Singapore is a different society. We are egalitarian, 378 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: Our norms are different, please understand. And for the most part, 379 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: they do tackling wealth inequality where it comes to our 380 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: people and our population. That's something we continue to work on, 381 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: whether it's income or wealth. 382 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 3: We have a range of policies. 383 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: It's not just about tax alone, because in Singapore we 384 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: have the ability to also provide wealth injections. And the 385 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: major reason why we can do that is housing. Everyone owns, 386 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: almost everyone owns their own home. Majority live in public housing, 387 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: and when you buy a flat from the housing development 388 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: bought in Singapore, you get housing equity. And that's the 389 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: reason why even at the lower end of bottom twenty 390 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: percent of households actually they have significant net wealth net 391 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: asset value because of home ownership. So that's one way 392 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: we can continue to fine tune our policies to provide 393 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: more support and uplift for lower income groups. We also 394 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: have a central provident fund, which is Social Security, which 395 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: is the individual's own retirement NEST eight, which we do 396 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: top ups from time to time. So our tool sets 397 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: are not limited. I know there's a lot of interest 398 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: again Bloomberg's favorite question for me, capital games against tax 399 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: wealth text. A lot of questions about text, but our 400 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: talkits are not limited to tax alt We also have 401 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: wealth transfers. 402 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 2: I'll take that as maybe a lot of just The 403 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 2: other issue about a lot of wealthy people coming here 404 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 2: is that not all of them have been virtuous, if I. 405 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 4: Can put it that way. 406 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 2: You know you had the money laudry, elicit flows, yes, 407 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 2: and you had the accusations about within the US. But 408 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 2: one of the heads of the main Asian crime families 409 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 2: being here. You've dealt with these things. But there is 410 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 2: one of your minister's had a very nice Chinese saying, 411 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 2: when we open the windows, some flies may also enter. 412 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 3: And sometimes we get more than flies. 413 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 2: Yes, but how many flies can Singapore tolerate? And do 414 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 2: you need the biggest flies swatter? 415 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: We do have quite a big fly swatter. I mean, 416 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: it's we take it very seriously. It's not unique to Singapore. 417 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 1: The elicit floors are everywhere. It's all financial centers. 418 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 3: You have to deal with this. 419 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: So to us, it's not so much about what you 420 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: know that there is an incident. There's bound they are 421 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 1: bound to be incidents, and they are bound to be 422 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: suspicious transactions. And then with intelligence, with cooperation across different countries, 423 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: eventually we get to the bottom of it. 424 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 3: The key is what do you do? 425 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: And we are very stringent and we take swift action 426 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: and we will. We are determined to protect our reputation 427 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: because that's what keeps Singapore going a trusted business and 428 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: financial center. 429 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 4: Can I ask you about energy. I've been quite struck 430 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 4: being here for the past day or so. 431 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 2: Is that a lot of people are talking about all 432 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 2: those new data centers. The idea that AI particularly will 433 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: need more energy. You look at Singapore or energy, virtually 434 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 2: all of it comes from energy very successful. But the 435 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 2: idea that somehow in the end Singapore has to kind 436 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 2: of get energy of its own, and there you're really 437 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 2: in a choice about either trying to do something. 438 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,959 Speaker 4: With one of your neighbors, maybe new or whatever. 439 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 2: The other big, very obvious option is nuclear energy. I mean, 440 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 2: is that something which is beging to become a much 441 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 2: bigger part of Singapore's future. 442 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: We don't know yet, but we are certainly studying the 443 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: options seriously. There won't be an easy silver bullet in 444 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: our case because we are small. We are unable to 445 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: scale up renewable energy at the in terms of the 446 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: amounts that we need. Some of the solutions, as you highlighted, 447 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: would include plugging into an icon power grit, which we 448 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: are building taking time, complex, but it's happening, but still 449 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: we would like to have our own source of clean power. 450 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: Hydrogen might come up as one possibility, but it's expensive. 451 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: So you could ship hydrogen and then burn it through 452 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: the turbine. It's got lower emissions than LERG. That's possible, 453 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: But we are also studying the possibility of nuclear power, 454 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: especially when you look at some of the new technologies 455 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: with sas which are safer. We are looking at whether 456 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 1: it might be possible. In our context, we are very 457 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: small seven hundred and fifty square kilometers or less than 458 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 1: three hundred square miles. That's tiny, yes, so we have 459 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: to ticket we have to look at it, consider the 460 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: safety very closely before we decide, and look at the 461 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: technology and how it's either there a kind of. 462 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 4: Time scale on that. 463 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: When do you think it really depends also on how 464 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: the technology evolves. And as of now we've been looking 465 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: at different technologies. You don't really see very many operational SMRs, 466 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: particularly small the SMRs which are grid scale. We're not 467 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: talking about the tiny ones like fifty megawat you know 468 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: that those don't serve our needs, right, We're talking about 469 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: grid scale, commercial scale SMRs, and you don't see a 470 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: lot of them around as of now, and so we 471 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: are studying, looking at you know, we're working with partners 472 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: including America and others Europe, looking at the technology, understanding 473 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: it better, understanding their implications. 474 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 3: And then if we think. 475 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: It's possible, we will have to also convince the public 476 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: that this is indeed a technology that is safe and 477 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: deployable in Singapore. 478 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 3: But we are not there yet. 479 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 1: That's still at the very early stages of building up capabilities. 480 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 2: Many things about you and ask you a personal question 481 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 2: at the end. You know you're you're the first leader 482 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 2: to be born after Singapore declared independence. Yes, it was 483 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 2: only the second leader outside the Lee family, and I wondered. 484 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 3: We only had four in Singapore. 485 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 4: Not many people have had four prime ministers for that long. 486 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,239 Speaker 4: What makes the biggest difference to you? Is it that 487 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 4: generational thing? 488 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 3: Your difference in terms. 489 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 2: Well in terms of the way that you want to 490 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 2: go ahead, that you are you are. 491 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 4: Somebody from a new generation of Singapore. 492 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 2: Does that make a bigger difference to the way you 493 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 2: want to lead Singapore over the next period. 494 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: I suppose me being from a different generation is part 495 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: of it. But in terms of ethos, mindset, values, I 496 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: represent the party and the foundation of values remain the same. 497 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: We are here to build a better Singapore because history 498 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: has never been kind to small states, and we know, 499 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: despite our success these last sixty years, the world is 500 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,959 Speaker 1: a dangerous place. It's become even more dangerous and our mission, 501 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: my mission is to keep Singapore going, not just in 502 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: my term, but to leave behind a better Singapore for 503 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: my successor and for future generations. It's so that remains 504 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: the ethos, the foundational values in which my party represents, 505 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: which I represent. I keep going back to this very 506 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: vivid memory of when I was in Michigan studying. I've 507 00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: told this story before, but not all the guests here 508 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: might might know this. There is a ghost town in 509 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: Michigan and it's called Singapore. Truly, it was founded in. 510 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 2: The eastagram free trade and minimal governments. 511 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 3: I don't know. 512 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: It was founded in the eighteen thirties near Lake Michigan. 513 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: Why Singapore, Perhaps eighteen thirties. Perhaps it took inspiration from 514 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: the fact that in eighteen nineteen there was this exotic 515 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: pot in the Exotic fire is founded by Sir Stampard Raffles, 516 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: and so maybe the name traveled. It took some time 517 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: for things to travel in those days, and perhaps it 518 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: took inspiration from that. But Singapore and Michigan didn't last 519 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: very long. I think about fifty years. It's overwhelmed by 520 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: the sifting sand dunes and now there's only a marker 521 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: that says this is where Singapore Michigan stood. We won 522 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: Singapore in Southeast Asia to us for a very long time. 523 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 3: That's my mission. 524 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 4: Well we all hope you achieved that. 525 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Prime Minister for talking to us, 526 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 2: and thank you very much for hosting us here. 527 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you,