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Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio Together Everything So don't don't do well. Hello, and

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the Worst Year Ever, the podcast where

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Speaker 1: we talk about the worst year ever. The one is

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Speaker 1: good year, still very bad. They didn't fix it? All right? Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna call our mechanic and have him jiggle the

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Speaker 1: handle of the year. Let's just pull out the engine

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Speaker 1: and blow on it a little bit and see if

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Speaker 1: that helps you. Try it. We'll try a few things.

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Speaker 1: I'm Katie. Sorry, I I'm Cody Johnston. I'm also Cody Johnston.

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Speaker 1: That's true. It might be got a conflicting facts here. UM.

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Speaker 1: Today we have an interview for you guys, UH with

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Speaker 1: Billy Jensen, the investigative journalist crime solver guy. You might

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Speaker 1: have first become aware of him, UM as he he

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Speaker 1: helped finish Michelle McNamara's book I'll Be Gone in the Dark,

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Speaker 1: which was all about the Golden State killer, UM and

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Speaker 1: brought that to national attention. UM. And he has done

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Speaker 1: quite a lot of his own work and solved a

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Speaker 1: bunch of crimes. And uh, we connected over the Robert

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Speaker 1: Fuller case. UM, and we'll get into that case in

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Speaker 1: our conversation. But we're really grateful that he took the

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Speaker 1: time to speak with us because he he has a

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Speaker 1: very unique perspective about working with the police and what

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Speaker 1: defunding the police means. Um, uh from perspective that I've

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Speaker 1: heard talked about, which which I appreciated. Yeah, I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to uh play the interview that we have finished already.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it. Let's do this. Let's go back in

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Speaker 1: time to the interview that we just minutes ago. How

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Speaker 1: do we have to do to go back in time?

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Speaker 1: Some sort of some sort of sound. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: let our listeners know that we're we've returned to the

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Speaker 1: past in order to conduct an interview. Just do it

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Speaker 1: and get it over with. Did you do it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Do you not hear it? I was definitely doing it, alright.

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Speaker 1: I was doing something that wasn't as wet as the

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Speaker 1: time machine noises normal. We are there, we go, there

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Speaker 1: we go. That's the time machine. I had to tickle

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Speaker 1: the handle to get to work on that note. Here's

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Speaker 1: Billy Jensen, a real professional. Hi Billy, thanks for joining

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Speaker 1: us today. Um, why don't we get started by, you know,

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Speaker 1: having you introduce yourself a little bit and tell us

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Speaker 1: about the work that you do, so listeners know why

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Speaker 1: they should respect everything that you say. Understood. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a crime investigative journalist. I've been doing

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Speaker 1: it for two decades now, and um, I would focus

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Speaker 1: exclusively on unsolved murders. And the problem with unsolved murders is, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you try to solve them, but you usually never do,

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Speaker 1: so you're writing stories at no endings. I got I

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Speaker 1: got fed up after a while, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: my day job turned into from a newspaper editor to

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Speaker 1: being sort of like the digital guy at newspaper companies,

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Speaker 1: where I would be the one that would know how

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Speaker 1: to bring in viewers to the websites. And I was

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Speaker 1: watching a video of a man being attacked on the

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Speaker 1: street in Chicago and he gets punched out, is lying

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Speaker 1: on the side while on the on the crosswalk, and

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Speaker 1: then a cab rolls over his chest and kills And

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Speaker 1: I said, there was really great video, great in terms

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Speaker 1: of being able to identify who the perpetrator was. But

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Speaker 1: some two months after I had watched that, they still

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Speaker 1: hadn't hadn't done it. And I said, why haven't they

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Speaker 1: done it? And had something clicked and just said, because

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Speaker 1: nobody's nobody's watching the news anymore, nobody's um watching reading

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Speaker 1: newspapers anymore. So I took it upon myself to try

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Speaker 1: and catch him, and I did. I did. I was

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Speaker 1: able to get him, so, uh, you know, using social

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Speaker 1: media and using a variety of different techniques and ah,

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Speaker 1: you know, that sort of set me on another kind

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Speaker 1: of path, And that was three years ago. And that

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Speaker 1: set me on another kind of path of kind of

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Speaker 1: trying to that was four years ago, actually of trying

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Speaker 1: to um work any kind of like skills that I

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Speaker 1: might have in investigating and social media to help solve

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Speaker 1: murders and find missing persons and find find fugitives. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I was looking at your website a little bit.

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Speaker 1: You've solved a lot of cases, Yeah, solved or help solved. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there's definitely you know, I can it's a

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Speaker 1: needle in the haystack when you're looking for a person

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Speaker 1: and you just have a blurry image on a video

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Speaker 1: and it's a needle in a haystack, and then I've

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Speaker 1: got to go and and find that needle. But I

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Speaker 1: do know then that you know, they've got obviously build

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Speaker 1: up enough for the for a case on that person.

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Speaker 1: But but yeah, no, it's been about ten so far

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Speaker 1: and one missing person and one murder fugitive. So wow.

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Speaker 1: So Billy and I connected over the Robert Fuller case.

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Speaker 1: For those of you who don't know, Robert Fuller was

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Speaker 1: a twenty four year old black man who was found

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Speaker 1: hanging from a tree across from Palmdale City Hall on

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Speaker 1: June tenth. I believe UM police in the area immediately

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Speaker 1: called it a suicide to the press before conducting any

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Speaker 1: kind of an investigation, which at best is a wildly

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Speaker 1: negligent thing to do at any point, but especially during

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Speaker 1: our current political climate. UM. Many of our listeners know

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Speaker 1: that I've been following this case really closely and been

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Speaker 1: looking for ways to use this platform to amplify the story,

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Speaker 1: and and Billy has been digging in and doing his

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Speaker 1: own investigative work. And UM, I was hoping that you

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Speaker 1: could talk to us a little bit about what you

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Speaker 1: have been doing, anything that you've been learning updates on

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Speaker 1: the case. Yeah, so it's like you said, it happened

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Speaker 1: on Wednesday. UM, nobody outside of don't nobody even in

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Speaker 1: Palm Down, New But UM on Friday. That I believe

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Speaker 1: is when I think Kim Kardashian tweeted out at it

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Speaker 1: and a bunch of other people just saying, what the

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Speaker 1: hell his teacher um direct message me on Instagram and

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Speaker 1: said I was his teacher. He was a great kid.

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Speaker 1: Can you please look into this. I turned on the

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Speaker 1: news and wanted to find out what was going on,

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Speaker 1: and turned on the news. That's an old expression. I

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Speaker 1: went on the Internet, and I went to the newspaper

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Speaker 1: Carrier and the evening edition was out, so and I

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Speaker 1: heard them say there were no cameras in the area.

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Speaker 1: And as soon as I heard that, I wanted to

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Speaker 1: call bullshit. So I went to I went to Google

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Speaker 1: Maps and said, where the hell is Palmdale. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's It's an hour and a half away during during

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Speaker 1: rush hour, at least from Los Angeles. So I drove

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Speaker 1: up and the press conference had just ended where they

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Speaker 1: had said that, and they had said it earlier as well.

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Speaker 1: There were maybe like ten twenty people in the park.

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Speaker 1: So this was a park where he was found. It

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Speaker 1: was like a city hall park. So I walked past

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Speaker 1: the tree where he was found, where the a memorial

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Speaker 1: was starting to take shape. And then I within five

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Speaker 1: minutes saw one camera the Whispering Palms apartment building, and

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Speaker 1: then I saw another camera on Whispering Palms. Then I

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Speaker 1: walked around to another place I saw a ring camera.

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Speaker 1: Then I saw, um what was probably our best bet,

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Speaker 1: which was a camera on a in the window, but

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Speaker 1: it was facing directly towards the tree fifty yards away

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Speaker 1: at um at a at a digital U a studio,

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Speaker 1: a photography studio so called Oho eight, And I thought,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, you know what, They're gonna have the

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Speaker 1: best bet because if it's a photographer who probably knows cameras,

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Speaker 1: and the camera looked good. So I just took pictures

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Speaker 1: of those and did a video and just said, you're

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Speaker 1: you're lying to us. Uh, you know, this is not

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Speaker 1: a matter of um me knowing what happened or anything.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying that you are lying to us. And

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Speaker 1: as we kept going, it's just looking at it from

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Speaker 1: a public relations perspective. Even if you're a town and

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Speaker 1: a black man is found hanging in for of city

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Speaker 1: hall during the biggest civil revolution in our lifetimes, why

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Speaker 1: would you even try to to quote unquote bay the

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Speaker 1: story which they did there was nothing about it on

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Speaker 1: social media. They were looking for two days after he

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Speaker 1: was found. They were looking for a owner of a

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Speaker 1: dog on their social media and they also sharing pictures

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Speaker 1: of snacks that they have. Yeah, and and there was

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Speaker 1: nothing about it. Also, I'm not going to give the

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Speaker 1: Antelope Valley UH News a pass because they ran with

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Speaker 1: the story that it was allegedly a suicide too and

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Speaker 1: didn't even question it. You know, it's one thing to

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Speaker 1: call allegedly in there, but no you question that. And

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Speaker 1: they nobody was doing the right thing. And I wanted

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Speaker 1: to really just sort of amplify. And when I was

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Speaker 1: up there, I started taking and people were asking me

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Speaker 1: what I was doing. And as the crowd started getting

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Speaker 1: bigger and bigger, and then of people started. There was

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Speaker 1: a woman with a with her her daughter, and she

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Speaker 1: was going around taking pictures and then we would share

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Speaker 1: them with each other and so and it wasn't as

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Speaker 1: those It was also the areas leading up, the roads

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Speaker 1: leading up to it. And my biggest thing was about

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Speaker 1: the police department them lying literally lying. Um that's what

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Speaker 1: Brian Shaefer said that there were no cameras. So then

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Speaker 1: that night, you know, I was I had tweeted all this,

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Speaker 1: all these things out. The mayor of Palm Dale writes me, No,

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Speaker 1: they said there were no cameras in the park, not

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Speaker 1: around the park, and I said no, and I sent

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Speaker 1: him the the video of him saying in the area.

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Speaker 1: And then he I think he must have realized that

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Speaker 1: he had screwed up. And then he deleted his account.

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Speaker 1: And then I was like, where'd you go? And then

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Speaker 1: I wake up the next morning and he sent me

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Speaker 1: a letter. He's replied to me with a letter of

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Speaker 1: them sending a letter to the Attorney General asking for

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Speaker 1: outside assistance and an independent investigation, throwing the sheriff's department

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Speaker 1: under the bus. So he he chose a side. Then,

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Speaker 1: you know, he decided, I gotta be on the right

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Speaker 1: side of this. I can't be with the police. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna be with you know, trying to call

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Speaker 1: with an independent investigation. I mean, good on him, But

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Speaker 1: then I asked him, I said, why are you just

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Speaker 1: replying this to me? Why is this not up on

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Speaker 1: your main feed? And he replied that he doesn't really

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Speaker 1: know Twitter that well, but who really does? Yeah, exactly

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Speaker 1: at old Chestnut. So you went around and you talked

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Speaker 1: to some of the businesses yourself correct. Yeah. So I

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Speaker 1: went back up on Friday, a week from when I

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Speaker 1: had gone up and uh the first time, and I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to canvass all the businesses to see because

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Speaker 1: nobody was answering the phone. Uh, So I wanted to

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Speaker 1: call and see, you know, personally call and see, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, have the police gone there. I talked to

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Speaker 1: seven businesses. Only two of them said the police had

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Speaker 1: come there. Um. One was the State Farm Agency who

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Speaker 1: was a former cop who said that they asked him

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Speaker 1: and his cameras had been broken. The other was a

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Speaker 1: auto body type place that was really kind of far away,

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Speaker 1: and they said yes immediately, like just like yo, yeah

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Speaker 1: they were here. Yeah like that. Every place else the

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Speaker 1: oho a place um which I'll get to in a second,

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Speaker 1: because that was our best chance. But there was like

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Speaker 1: a Mama's Fished place, a seat Mamba sea Food I

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Speaker 1: think it was called, which is right on the closest intersection.

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Speaker 1: There's a pawn shop next to that. No, they hadn't

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Speaker 1: been asked. Still haven't heard from Whispering Palms, you know,

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Speaker 1: asked a bunch of other places, and you know when

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Speaker 1: somebody goes, say when a person goes missing, or like

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Speaker 1: during the hanogram investigation in Charlottesville, when um, she went missing,

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Speaker 1: uh and then wound up she wound up being murdered.

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Speaker 1: You go to every business that even isn't even around

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Speaker 1: um where she was last seen. You go to like

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Speaker 1: you know, you do like a block search and a

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Speaker 1: grid search, and then you try to find anything that

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Speaker 1: might be So what you'd be looking for is is

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Speaker 1: Robert Fuller walking alone? Is Robert Fuller walking alone with

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Speaker 1: a bag or a rope or something? Is somebody following him? Then? Um,

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Speaker 1: is he encountering people? So so you get a sense

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Speaker 1: of of what might have been happening. And they did

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Speaker 1: none of this. And unfortunately, the best shot that we

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Speaker 1: would have had is the oh show a UM Digital

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Speaker 1: photography studio. They were not asked, and they also wiped

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Speaker 1: their footage, they told me within twenty four hours. So

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Speaker 1: and that's just a matter of probably because they have

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Speaker 1: a good it's probably because they have a good camera, UM,

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Speaker 1: and it eats up a lot of hard drive space,

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Speaker 1: you know, so it's not there. It's not their fault

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Speaker 1: because they weren't Nobody even knew they didn't even know,

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Speaker 1: you know that was something was going on, and that

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Speaker 1: is the police department's fault. And uh, I can't. I

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Speaker 1: can't sit there and say I have no idea what

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Speaker 1: happened with Robert Fuller, whether whether you know he was

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Speaker 1: murdered or whether he decided to take his own life.

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Speaker 1: But I do know that the police department did a

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Speaker 1: really piss poor job of investigating, did a really piss

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Speaker 1: poor job of of messaging, and then lied about it.

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Speaker 1: They could they could have said, you know, they could

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Speaker 1: have the amount of overtime they've probably had to pay

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Speaker 1: their officers now for all the protests. This could have

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Speaker 1: been five hours of work collecting this footage and putting

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Speaker 1: it out there and saying, yes, we have footage of

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Speaker 1: him walking by himself. People would still question it because

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Speaker 1: it might have been five minutes before or something like that.

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Speaker 1: But they still could have had that and they didn't

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Speaker 1: do it. And it's just it's it's just at best,

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Speaker 1: it's it's horrible police work. Let's just put to you

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Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, like horrible, horrible, horrible police work. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And I think important to note when discussing this case

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Speaker 1: the situation is the fact that Palmdale, Lancaster area. UM

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Speaker 1: absolutely does have a history of white supremacy, of the

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Speaker 1: history of white supremacy the sheriff's department. There was literally

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Speaker 1: a neo Nazi gang and not very far away in

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Speaker 1: Lynn Lynnwood, UM that was made up of nothing but

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Speaker 1: sherriff's deputies together. Everything you say, best case scenario, this

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Speaker 1: is terrible. Worst case scenario. It's something more sinister. But

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Speaker 1: at the very least you would think, during this specific

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Speaker 1: point in time it's cultural revolution, you would do your

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Speaker 1: due diligence and cover the very basic steps that need

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Speaker 1: to be covered. UM. Another thing they didn't even do.

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Speaker 1: Sorry to cut you off, well, please tell us all

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Speaker 1: the things. Malcolm Harsh was found hanging UM two weeks prior,

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Speaker 1: ten days prior in Rosemond, a little bit aways, you know,

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Speaker 1: sixty miles away, fifty miles away. They didn't even call

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Speaker 1: that agency uh TO to share notes or whatever. And

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Speaker 1: that's the thing that I constantly I am you know.

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Speaker 1: And it turns out that there was video of that

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Speaker 1: and the family had seen it and they they have

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Speaker 1: agreed that it was UM, it was death by suicide.

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Speaker 1: But you know, that's something that I am constantly harping

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Speaker 1: on police departments is because they never ever talked to

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Speaker 1: each other. We have seventeen thousand different law enforcement agencies,

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Speaker 1: and you know, our ability to solve crimes is based

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Speaker 1: on this idea that nobody has cars or trains or

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Speaker 1: planes or anything, and people just you know, ride horses.

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Speaker 1: That's entirely how we think about how we solve crimes

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Speaker 1: in America, and we're not you know, like when we

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Speaker 1: start talking about the ideas of of defunding the police,

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Speaker 1: I want to defund the police because not only to

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Speaker 1: um to try to dismantle the systemic racism and everything.

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Speaker 1: The thing that I've been asking for for so long

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Speaker 1: is better investigative skills and better investigative uses. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we're not crushing it when it comes to solving crimes.

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Speaker 1: We sell homicides, less than one percent of sexual assaults

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Speaker 1: lead to a felony conviction. You know, we can do

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Speaker 1: a hell of a lot. So anybody that might like

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Speaker 1: true crime and is wondering way to fund the police

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Speaker 1: who's going to catch the murderers? We can do a

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Speaker 1: hell of a lot better. Yeah, yeah, I definitely wanted

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Speaker 1: to touch on that because you you work closely with

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Speaker 1: police departments or detectives. I would assume in the course

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Speaker 1: of your work, and you're right, a very a small

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Speaker 1: percentage or not enough crimes get solved. And when people

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Speaker 1: talk about pushback against defunding the police or police abolishment,

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Speaker 1: they say like, oh, well, what about the bad guys,

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Speaker 1: what about the serious crimes. You're right, we're not We're

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Speaker 1: not too doing too great as is, and there needs

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Speaker 1: to be some significant reform. Yeah, yeah, yeah, take away

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Speaker 1: all of the the minutia, uh that ruins people's lives,

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Speaker 1: like the drug possession, arrests and and convictions. All of

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Speaker 1: this time that we're spending on these small crimes, that

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Speaker 1: takes up of what the police are doing. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: everything from you know, being a crossing guard or doing

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Speaker 1: traffic or or watching out when they're there's so many things,

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Speaker 1: you know, finding lost dogs, all this, all these things

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Speaker 1: that people don't understand because you know what, you don't

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Speaker 1: see it on TV. You know, if cops was real,

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Speaker 1: it would be boring as hell because guys would be

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Speaker 1: you know, changing tires on highway for they would be

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Speaker 1: doing so many things that changing tires by the ways

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Speaker 1: of training day reference but that they have, but they

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Speaker 1: they would do so many things that are not like

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Speaker 1: you're wondering why why does a copan need to do this?

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Speaker 1: And that's what defending the police comes down to. What

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Speaker 1: I also want to do is use this as an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to say, hey, we could know because I work

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Speaker 1: with a lot of police here, but I also work

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Speaker 1: a lot of families, and the families when they hear

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Speaker 1: of victims, and when the families here defund the police,

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Speaker 1: they they they go nuts because a lot of the

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Speaker 1: families they're they're looking if they want more resources. And

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Speaker 1: what I try to explain them is that this needs

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Speaker 1: to change because it's not been working. Now. I mean

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Speaker 1: that there's a reason why your loved one, Um, the

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Speaker 1: case is still open, and it's because the resources are

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Speaker 1: not being allocated in a in a in a way

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Speaker 1: because you might hear three billion dollar budget for the

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Speaker 1: l A. L A Police Department, but you know how

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Speaker 1: much of that is really really going to solving serious

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Speaker 1: crimes and it's not that much, right, Um, there's another

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Speaker 1: aspect to this story that happened. UM. I think it

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Speaker 1: was about less than a week after Robert Fuller was found,

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Speaker 1: his brother Terron damal Boone, his half brother was killed

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Speaker 1: by the L A P. D Uh in a shootout

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Speaker 1: of some sort or as as it's been described. I

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Speaker 1: have not seen very much information on this. There has

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Speaker 1: seems to be the story seems confusing. You look at

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Speaker 1: social media, you look at different reporting on it. There

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Speaker 1: was a vague reference to him investigating his brother's death

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Speaker 1: on his own. There is also talk about him kidnapping

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Speaker 1: somebody and holding her hostage. Um. The police say that

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Speaker 1: he got out of his car and fired at them,

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Speaker 1: but from what I believe, he was found in the

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Speaker 1: car and was killed through the window of the car. UM.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying any of this for fact because I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm confused by it. Also, they seem to be lying

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Speaker 1: about a lot of stuff, so maybe it's hard to

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Speaker 1: like that makes it difficult to trust them. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just curious if you have any information

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Speaker 1: on that or any thoughts or insights to to share.

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Speaker 1: The story that has been released by the police, which

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Speaker 1: you know the news has reported, is that he had

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Speaker 1: apparently Um had kidnapped his girlfriend for six days. This

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Speaker 1: is again, this is what the police are saying, and

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Speaker 1: there was also maybe like a domestic violence charge against

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Speaker 1: him as well. They they she was able to escape.

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Speaker 1: She went to the police, They got a warrant, They

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Speaker 1: followed him. This is l A Sheriff's They followed him

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Speaker 1: into Kerrent County and then um, they surrounded him. Now

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Speaker 1: I have no idea what is going on with this case,

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Speaker 1: but I will say this man's brother had just been

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Speaker 1: found hanging in a park. The police weren't doing anything.

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Speaker 1: Then he gets surrounded by three apparently plainclothes cops in

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Speaker 1: an unmarked cars with guns drawn, and he gets out

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Speaker 1: and starts shooting. That's what That's what they're telling us.

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Speaker 1: That's what they're telling us. Cops do not have their

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Speaker 1: body cams on the woman was There was a woman

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Speaker 1: in the car with him that also got shot. Um,

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Speaker 1: and a child in the car. Okay, if you're going

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Speaker 1: to be shooting at a guy in a car, sometimes

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Speaker 1: you're gonna hit a kid and another lady. That's gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: If you're firing wildly at a car, Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 1: risk you just gotta take. I guess if you're going

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Speaker 1: to shoot at a car with a person in it.

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Speaker 1: But it was who was the woman then it was not.

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Speaker 1: It was somebody else. Yeah, it was not. I've heard

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Speaker 1: that it might have been an ex girlfriend. I don't know. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's all very uh confusing and strange. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but I

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Speaker 1: think it's also really important to note that this is

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Speaker 1: this is odd and within a week of each other,

384
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Speaker 1: this this huge response to his his half brother, and

385
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 1: again the body cams not being on. Um, there's ring

386
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: footage that has been circulating online about it that does

387
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: not sound like he got out of his car and

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Speaker 1: fired at them. But who are we to know. I

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00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: don't know for a fact, um, just sharing the stuff

390
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: that I've been reading about. Yeah, it's definitely something that again,

391
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: it's something that they want to They tried to get

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00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 1: ahead of that one, you know, by saying, and what's

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00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 1: what's the one way you're going And it very well

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00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: might be true. But the one way that you're going

395
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: to get the public against somebody is by putting a

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Speaker 1: domestic violence charge against them, you know. So, um, again,

397
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Speaker 1: very well might be true. I'm not sure. I have

398
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 1: no idea, but they were very quick to put that

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00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: story out there and say this is the reason why

400
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Speaker 1: we were looking for him. So that definitely tamped um

401
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 1: any kind of activism that you might have seen on

402
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: social media about that, um, you know, but it's still

403
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: it's a very there's a lot of like too many

404
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,959
Speaker 1: strange coincidences, especially considering like what I said, all right,

405
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Speaker 1: I'm sucking, I'm going up there. A lot of people

406
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: started DM me me saying, like, tell me about Antelope

407
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: Valley and the the history of racism up there. You know,

408
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: they had blocked um um people of color from Section

409
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Speaker 1: eight housing, I believe, and I think the police were

410
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: complicit in that at one point. So there's there are

411
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: stories about that. And you know, when we met in

412
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: person for the first time, we were up for the

413
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: we went up to March for Juneteenth slash Robert Fuller.

414
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Speaker 1: They were going to do it in Palmdale, but then

415
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: they moved it to Lancaster so everybody would be in Lancaster.

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Speaker 1: And then there was a rumor that the clan was

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Speaker 1: going to show up in Lancaster, and that was you know,

418
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: what did you think of that? Because you know, I

419
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: was watching from towards the back once we got to

420
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Speaker 1: the park, and I noticed some things that were interesting.

421
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Speaker 1: What did you What did you see when you were there? Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that. I was pretty immersed in watching

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Speaker 1: the speakers when I was there. I will say that

424
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: the time the day before I was up there as well,

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Speaker 1: and I can a test firmly that there were some

426
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: very unsettling people lingering around in big white trucks, uh,

427
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: with the engines running. Uh, you know, big white men

428
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: threatening lee flashing the lights every so often. You can

429
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: attest to that. Um. And then towards the end of

430
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: the gathering on June teeth, Uh, there was a big

431
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: tone shift. Uh. You know, things started to be agitated

432
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: and they ended the rally early. Um. But I I

433
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 1: didn't observe much there. I know that you and a

434
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: couple of people were documenting cars that were driving through.

435
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: Yeah you know. So yeah, like you said, there are

436
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: a couple of scuffles because people listen, People were on edge.

437
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: You know, people are thinking. You know, and when I

438
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 1: say clan, I'm not saying that. I don't think there

439
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 1: was going to be you know, it was more white supremacists.

440
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: It's more sort of white supremacist biker gang types, I think,

441
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: is what we're thinking. Um, but there was the clan

442
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: was mentioned. So you know what what happened was is

443
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: that the Clams supposed to show there at seven. I

444
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: think we we started at five, the Clams supposed to

445
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 1: show it seven. So I I UM kicked back um

446
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: with an organizer from l A and we were just

447
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: watching everything, and like we sort of started seeing like

448
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: a couple of you know, people started showing up that

449
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: we're kind of like on the outskirts, just like looking

450
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: around and we're talking about these are people that part

451
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: of the BLM movement or black men. UM, just wanting

452
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: to see I want to make sure like everything was

453
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: gonna be okay. Right around seven o'clock. The one thing

454
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: that I noticed is is that so from five o'clock

455
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: to seven, of all the cars that passed, there were

456
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: maybe two people, two white guys in the cars. And

457
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 1: the way that the park is situated is that it's

458
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: almost like a dead end. There's no real there's no

459
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: reason to pass by it. It's not even a shortcut.

460
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: It's slow out of the way, not even a shortcut. Yeah.

461
00:27:54,640 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: Once seven o'clock hit, the cars became increasing ea white,

462
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: and it was it went from maybe you know, five

463
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: pcent white to white, there was something there and whether

464
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: they were just going to check it out, huh we

465
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: heard this was going on or whatever, or who knows,

466
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: a lot of trucks, a lot of you know, groups

467
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: of guys in there, whatever, UM that might have just

468
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 1: been wondering what was going on, or they might have

469
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: been trying to post up and see if there was

470
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 1: a bunch of other people there and then they would

471
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: get out and do something. And then they would you

472
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: would see them, and some of them actually drove through

473
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: and apparently I was trying to see if there was

474
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: a way out, but they drove through. Then they drove

475
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: back around, and we would see that. We would see

476
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: people like drive through and drive back around and nobody

477
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: was really even noticing them. So me and this one

478
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: organizer n see, we started taking pictures just in case,

479
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: you know, because the threat was that they would not

480
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: do a rally, but then maybe they would you know,

481
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: do something to anybody that was walking back by themselves,

482
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: because we to all walk back to our cars because

483
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: we we parked the cars and the target parking a lot.

484
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: That's where it started. And Um and the organizers guy

485
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: named love Um who's a fantastic speaker by the trying

486
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: to get him on here and yeah, now he's great

487
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: and um, I think he just did an interview I

488
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: think with a yeah so and he um. And he's

489
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: got a connection to he's got an amazing story as well.

490
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: So uh, you know, we walked with him all the

491
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: way down the towards to the parks, so we had

492
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: to go back. Everybody had to go back and get

493
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: their cars. So everybody was walking back in groups of

494
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: twos or threes. Yeah, keeping ring. I I really admired

495
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,719
Speaker 1: what he how he is organizing there, and that's one

496
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: of the things that he talked about, like we don't

497
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: know if they're going to show up, but from now on,

498
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: we want a system of accountability. You don't walk by yourself,

499
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: you know. And that's the other thing that I've heard

500
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: so much at these rallies that I've been going to

501
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: over there. You know, Palm Dale, Lancaster, this is a

502
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: sundown city. If you are of color, you are not

503
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: out after sundown, especially not right now. Yeah, nothing I

504
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: noticed with the with the march is the first march

505
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: I've been to, in the first march that I've seen

506
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: where the police were in front of the march. The

507
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: police weren't doing anything to stop traffic. They were behind

508
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: the march, which I found very interesting. UM. I don't

509
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: know if that means if it's just bad but police

510
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: or something, but you would think because there were cars

511
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: that were coming straight at us, and there were cars

512
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: that were trying to make turns of everything, and there

513
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: was nobody stopping them. And then they the organizers had

514
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: to actually go out and then um and kind of

515
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: direct traffic, which didn't make sense when I was looking

516
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: up for the cars, and then I see the bird

517
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: up in the sky, and then I looked behind us,

518
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: and then there were six cop cars. Yeah, that's weird

519
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: to me in a way, like incompetence. Before probably as

520
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: I was walking up to that, people were gathering on

521
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: the corner by the target. UM, I would see every

522
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: minute a cop car would blare blaze, come speeding up

523
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: with their sirens blaring, and then slow down right in

524
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: front of the protesters and then speed up and drive away.

525
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: That happened about four or five times, UM. And then

526
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: we started marching, and then all of a sudden, there was,

527
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: like you said, six cars right behind, like trailing in

528
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: a weird way, and you know, the helicopter above circling

529
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: pretty low. It felt a little ominous. And then when

530
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: you got to the park. But at the same time,

531
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: when we got to the park, I noted that there

532
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: was a ton of cops tucked away. They were not

533
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: they were not harassing the actual rally in the park. No,

534
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: the cops were probably I would say, accorded to a

535
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: half mile away. They were kind of stationed up, stationed there,

536
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: not in any place there would be able to stop

537
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: anything if any if like the climate Big showed us there.

538
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: But maybe they're watching the entrance to the park. I mean,

539
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: I don't that was that was a strategy that they had. Um,

540
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: I'm not going to begrudge them because it's better than

541
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: than than having riot gear out there, you know. So uh,

542
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: you know, there was there were a couple of skirmishes

543
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: during the rally and um, but it seemed like the

544
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: organizers of the rally were able to diffuse them. And

545
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: as much as there might have been, you know, a

546
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: couple of skirmishes about people like trying to you know,

547
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: like what are you doing here or something like that,

548
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: there were ten times as many people just trying to say,

549
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: this is not what we're here for. We're here for

550
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: to get justice and this and that we can't be

551
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: we can't be fighting like this, which was really beautiful. Um,

552
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: and I do understand why emotions are running high and

553
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: why that's an environment for things to escalate pretty easily

554
00:32:54,680 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: together everything. Do you have any information on, uh, where

555
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: the investigation stands right now what they are? No, I've

556
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: got Now they're still saying, they're still not saying anything,

557
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: and uh, you would like to They tried lying, so

558
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: I guess they have to try not saying anything now. Yeah,

559
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: you'd like to think that, you know. I think what

560
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: has happened right now is that Palmdale Sheriffs, which is

561
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: part of the l A Sheriffs, they're they're directing everything

562
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: towards l A Sheriff headquarters, you know, so uh, and

563
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: then ell A Sheriff Headquarters is just saying no comment.

564
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: It's incredibly frustrating. I mean, there's any number of things

565
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: that could be done. We don't know what the actual

566
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: autopsy is saying. We don't know if there are forensics

567
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: from the rope um, from his clothing anything like that,

568
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: And I don't know what the normal time frame for

569
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: information like that is. But yeah, I mean it's and

570
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: whether they'll be using an m BacT for the rope,

571
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: which is kind of like a m BAC is a

572
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, it's like a DNA vacuum,

573
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: you know. And it can it can kind of when

574
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: you're dealing with fabrics and things that can kind of

575
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: suck that up and then and then collect it in

576
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,760
Speaker 1: a way that you wouldn't be able to do um

577
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: if you you know, you could do it with just

578
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: getting a strand of hair or a fiber. But they're

579
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: able to um extract d NA more like skin cells

580
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: and things like that. But I don't know if they're

581
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: using one of those, I doubt it. But yeah, and

582
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: then and then the you know, and then there's also

583
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: a matter of you know, you can find DNA in

584
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: there that has nothing to do with crying. It could

585
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: have been somebody from the factory that made it, you know,

586
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: it could have been somebody from the store who sold it.

587
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: So but it's a tool. It is a still a

588
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: tool that needs to be used, and that's where the

589
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: manpower and and woman power needs to be made in

590
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: in these investigations and not through all of this other

591
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: stuff that they're doing. It's hard to feel like they're

592
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 1: not taking this very seriously. Um, hard not to feel

593
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: that way, Yes, I said that, right. Uh, it's just

594
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 1: I mean it leaves me feeling so angry and powerless

595
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: in a bit away that like, what what do we do?

596
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: How do we you know, how do we how do

597
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: we change this? How do we take them get them

598
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: to at least take accountability. I mean, regardless, say Robert

599
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: Fuller did commit suicide, I don't believe that at this

600
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: point in time, but say that he did, like we've mentioned,

601
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: regardless of that, this is gross, gross incompetence and how

602
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: they're handling and the situation. And people should lose their

603
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: jobs over this. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. I don't know how

604
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: to make that happen, you know, Yeah, no, And the

605
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: problem is it's incredibly hard to make it happen. We

606
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: can't even get guys to lose their jobs after they

607
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: literally kill somebody, uh you know that work for a

608
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: police department, And only one out of three Brianna Taylor

609
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 1: shooters has fired. So it's you know, the the issues

610
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: that are going on right now are going to have

611
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: to deal with It's one thing to say defund the police.

612
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: It's another thing to actually take on the unions, take

613
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: on the union contracts. The money that's going that that

614
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 1: we see, the money is going towards salaries obviously, which

615
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,919
Speaker 1: is fine, going to pensions, you know, which is which

616
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: is a huge part of it, and overtime and that

617
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: overtime game that they all play. You know. The pension

618
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: situation is very much similar to what happened with the

619
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: US auto industry. You know, you're just you're writing a

620
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: check that you don't have that someone is not going

621
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: to cash for twenty years. It's not your administration. So

622
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: you accept this deal. Imagine every person that you ever

623
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: worked with at every job you've been at, Imagine them

624
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: getting of that salary, you know, and that's for the

625
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: rest of the lives. You know. That's where all this

626
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: money is going towards. That's what we mean by, you know,

627
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: defunding the police. I'm not saying take away all their pension,

628
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: but I'm saying that that there needs to be something better,

629
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: because if we're spending over of the police of the

630
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: entire city budget on on policing, uh, there needs to

631
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: be something better than than what's going on right now

632
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: from an investigative standpoint, and we're not seeing and I'm

633
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: we're seeing gross incompetence right there on a I mean

634
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: just imagine this is like the one case that we

635
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: were looking at. What else is going on? I mean, yeah,

636
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: that's the really frustrating thing listening to all of this

637
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: and just like every step of the way either a

638
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: lie or a complete like funk up. And then just

639
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: like this is one thing in one place that people

640
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: are actually paying attention to for you know, various reasons. Uh,

641
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: it has been brought to like people's attention, but like

642
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 1: where where are the other once and what's being done there? Yeah,

643
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about that a lot, a lot lately.

644
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 1: I mean, Brianna Taylor, all of it, go ahead, Billy,

645
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: you know, And part of me is just you know,

646
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: it's we've gotten to a point where we've gotten where

647
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: we've recognized the the the issue that black people have

648
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: been have been screaming about for years and years and years,

649
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: and we've finally as a society woken up to it.

650
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: I think I think we've actually gotten there. We just

651
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: have to keep up the momentum of what happens Um,

652
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: the the the black people and the relationship with the police.

653
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 1: Even though we heard about it, we sang along songs

654
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: about it, you know, but we we didn't get it. Um.

655
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: But we are not equipped now from a from a

656
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: media standpoint to cover the local stories because local newspapers

657
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: have been decimated. And so I'm not saying that they

658
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: were doing it eight before, because they weren't, but this

659
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: would have been a time to where that could have

660
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: that could have intersected. And uh, you know, that is

661
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: one of the things that it comes on a on

662
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: a local level. Yeah, we've got we've got so many

663
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: people covering Trump and covering national things, but it's the

664
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: local news things that are that are suffering. And it's

665
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: these kinds of stories that are that are probably happening

666
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 1: a lot across America that are not going to be told.

667
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: So that's interesting. You're right. I mean, it's hard to

668
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: rely on local news right now for variety of reasons. Decimated.

669
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 1: Was also a lot of conservatives that own local news organizations. Um,

670
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: there's there's a slant in the reporting. Um. And uh,

671
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: Cody and I had a guest on our other show

672
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: recently and we talked a lot about this about how

673
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: the twenty four hour news cycle isn't as effective as

674
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: at once. What because was because we have social media,

675
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: we have our phones, we can become citizen journalists. Uh,

676
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 1: we can amplify stories if we're paying attention and doing

677
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: it right, So we we do have that out. No, No,

678
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 1: it's actually almost worse sometimes if people care too much

679
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: like that. There's been so many stories going around that

680
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: I don't even want to give the details super details on,

681
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: but like it will start spreading and people will start

682
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: and they'll be like they're such and such this person

683
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: was abducted. You know, this crime was committed up here,

684
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: Like you need to spread the information this person was abducted,

685
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: and like here's the vehicle and it's like you trace

686
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: it back and there's no there's no photo evidence, there's

687
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: no missing person's report, there's nothing but people on Twitter

688
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 1: like not just sharing things, but like shaming each other

689
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: for not sharing it so that it gets shared more.

690
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: And then it's like, what what is what is this

691
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: based on? Whereas like do we have even have evidence

692
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: of a victim? Um? And that's that's part of what

693
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,919
Speaker 1: scares me with all of these cases, is that UM

694
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: like Robert Fuller, something something we need to figure out,

695
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: like the truth here there's a real a man is dead,

696
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: possibly two and and we don't really know exactly, like

697
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: we don't know what happened, and we need to figure

698
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,280
Speaker 1: it out. But there is such um in part because

699
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: of all of these people being allowed to kind of

700
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: grab onto whatever story is happening in this uprising are

701
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: interesting to them. Well there's this so much chaff. Yeah,

702
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: well we do. We do definitely know that two people

703
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: are dead. We just don't know. Yeah, but uh, you know,

704
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: that's one of the things when we see this And

705
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: what's one of the talk about this in my book

706
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: and I talked about this on on Murder Squad all

707
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: the time, is that you have to follow the rules

708
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: and um, there's an escalation part to the rules. And

709
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 1: the first rule is don't name names in public. We

710
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: saw this with the Boston bombing. When they put out

711
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: the pictures of the two bombers. Everybody, not everybody on readit,

712
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: but people on read it looked at this this kid

713
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: who had gone missing from Brown University named sa Neil Trap.

714
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: He looked a lot like the second bomber that the

715
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: kid the younger guy, and they started talking about, hey,

716
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 1: that could this be the guy? Could this be the guy?

717
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, it turns out he had he

718
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: had he had died. He might have died by suicide.

719
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: We don't know, but uh, you know, they were dragging

720
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: this kid through the mud and he had nothing to

721
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: do with it. We saw it again recently, remember that

722
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: that video of the douchebag on the bicycle that was

723
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 1: tearing down the posters, the BLM posters that the little

724
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: kids were then kind of like assaulting the little kids too,

725
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: I think he was. And so they had an image

726
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: of this guy, they put it up on social and

727
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: then people start posting addresses and and and pictures and

728
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 1: social media profiles of the wrong people. And these people

729
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: have to go and say this isn't me. Wait a minute,

730
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: you know. The what we always say is that, you know,

731
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: send us the information, or send the police the information. Definitely,

732
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 1: if the police don't do anything within a certain amount

733
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: of time, then you go to the press. Um. You know,

734
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: but now that that window of time for me is

735
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,919
Speaker 1: shrinking because I used to when I in my investigations,

736
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: I used to give them like all right, I'll give

737
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: them you know, a little bit of space for them

738
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: to do their thing. And you know, some a lot

739
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: of times, you know, most of the time, if I

740
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: see a good piece of of footage of a suspect,

741
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: I just put it in a folder and say, I'm

742
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: gonna check back this on a week and then I'll

743
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: do a Google search and they would have already caught

744
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: the guy. But um, that's gonna start shrinking and shrinking

745
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: now because we have no trust in the police department

746
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: as evidence of um, you know what happened in Palmdale,

747
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: and I think that you know, and I would not

748
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: as far as like my level of trust in the

749
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: police department. It was always on a case by case basis.

750
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: I could tell pretty quickly whether somebody was A wanted

751
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: to work with me, b was was pretty incompetent and

752
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: they don't know what they're doing, or she was like

753
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: willing to be like, yeah, let's let's let's work on

754
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: this together because we're completely lost on this case. And

755
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: and we'll try anything. And you know, now it's a

756
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: it's it's coming to the forefront. It's it's a it's

757
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:15,879
Speaker 1: a little liberating to be able to say it because

758
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: I wasn't you know. I didn't say it before. Um,

759
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: I was not covering things that we're dealing with systemic

760
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:26,720
Speaker 1: racism that I thought, but I really was right, right,

761
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 1: Oh man, you guys have more questions I wanted to.

762
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: I just want to hear others, like stories of things

763
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: that you've solved, but that as much time as you are,

764
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 1: if there's something a good story, yeah, I mean, I

765
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: think it's it's fascinating to hear you talk about this work.

766
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: I think, you know, you know this, maybe you're kind

767
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: of a favorite among people that are true crime junkies

768
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: and and citizens lose want to you know, put together

769
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: and piece together stories, and so it is fascinating to

770
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 1: hear you talk about this and in your process and

771
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 1: if there's any other stories you want to share, because

772
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: I think that this resonates for a lot of people,

773
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 1: or even anything that like upon reflections, uh, with what's

774
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: happening now, you like you view it in a different context.

775
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: You know, absolutely, I think that because of what's happening now,

776
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 1: we're being what we're we're doing now is we're actually

777
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: capturing the events on camera because everybody has the camera.

778
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: Everyone's going a TV studio in their in their pockets,

779
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: so people know instinctively to go to the camera if

780
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: they're if they're around seeing it. Now, a lot of

781
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: crimes happen when there's nobody around with the camera, but

782
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: we're doing that. The thing is we do that, we

783
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: put it up there. Then there's the you know, there's

784
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: a news cycle in social media that's even faster than

785
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: the news cycle in national media and mainstream media. So

786
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 1: you might be able to um catch somebody doing something

787
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: bad on camera, whether it's a police officer or somebody else.

788
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 1: It's that follow up and that's the thing that we

789
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: that we need the news media to do, is the

790
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: follow up and do the follow up work. And it's hard,

791
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: you know, it's and it's it's a matter of of

792
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 1: you know, the reason why this happened. We've seen the

793
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: police murder black men on video before. The reason why

794
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: it happened is because we've never seen it, um happen

795
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 1: over such a long period of time, over the eight

796
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: minutes and forty six seconds, and be so visceral, and

797
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 1: also have no distractions because of the pandemic. And everybody

798
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 1: finally was able to get slapped in the face with

799
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: this I would also say we immediately knew about it,

800
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: m made immediately made national headlines, whereas Brianna t learned

801
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: that wasn't a household name. The the urgency of her situation,

802
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: the the immediacy, the rage of the community has abetted

803
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: by the time everybody else caught up. But yes, please continue. Well,

804
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: it's it's also because that was video, because there were

805
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: somebody there taking it and then they can post it.

806
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: So that's that's the key. But then it's just you know,

807
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: going that and then it's just the follow up, and

808
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: the follow up is the outrage and and yes, the

809
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: most important thing is getting it on video. Unfortunately that's

810
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: what we have to do. But and there you get

811
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: the outrage and then you can get the swell of

812
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: support potentially. But it's the follow up. And it's the

813
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: follow up that we need um our journalists to be doing,

814
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 1: is to follow up that we need the police departments

815
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: to be doing, and um and battling these unions because

816
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: you know, these police chiefs, a lot of them, I'm

817
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: not giving them excuses, but their hands are tied with

818
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 1: the police union and the contracts that they that they

819
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 1: signed with the police union, and those police unions will

820
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: take take, take as much as they can get, and uh,

821
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,760
Speaker 1: you know it's just like you know, the police union,

822
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: they give it this way. You know, people were you know,

823
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: the big story from yesterday, the FBI investigated the news

824
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: that was found in Bubba Wallis's garage. They said it

825
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: was it was a pull for a garage door. Fine,

826
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: it did look like a noose, all right. A week

827
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 1: prior to weeks prior, the New York City Police Detectives

828
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: Union tweeted out that three officers were deliberately poisoned by

829
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 1: a shake shack. So there's a there's a difference there.

830
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: One said there was a noose found hanging and these

831
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 1: were gear heads. Another were I don't know, detectives. And

832
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: they went out and said deliberately poisoned and then they

833
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 1: had to backtrack and also they deleted that tweety you know. So, uh,

834
00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:00,879
Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of things going

835
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 1: on with those police unions that um, that is that's

836
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: going to be the struggle right now when it comes

837
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: to all of this, all of these things with the police.

838
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: But um, you know, for people that want to do

839
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 1: you know, the biggest thing is taking the taking the

840
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: photos when you're seeing something wrong, absolutely, and then it's um,

841
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: you know, doing that, doing that follow up work, sending

842
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,240
Speaker 1: it to the right people doing the doing the investigations yourself.

843
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 1: We're getting we're distributing the news on a lot of

844
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 1: different places, but there's not like, you know, how many

845
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: people are gonna do a FOI request, you know how

846
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: many people are going to be doing this or that,

847
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: you know, and it's just that's Yeah, that's where it

848
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: comes down to when it comes from citizen journalism and

849
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 1: listen because thinks they shouldn't freaking have to another job,

850
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: but it's turning into our jobs now. We've made it

851
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 1: our jobs, you know, because of uh, we can't trust

852
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 1: you know that we've either decimated the media and quite frankly,

853
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: we couldn't trust the media because they weren't covering these

854
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: cases the way that they should have. Yeah, it's interesting.

855
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: I I believe I shared this with you last week

856
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: at the at the Juneteenth rally. But earlier last week

857
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: I was talking about this with the guys here, Robert

858
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,839
Speaker 1: and Cody and Sophie, and I was talking about how

859
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,919
Speaker 1: you said that there was all these these cameras after

860
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: the police had said, oh, you know, there weren't any,

861
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: and I think it was Cody that was like, you

862
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,720
Speaker 1: should go talk to them to make sure the police

863
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: approached them. And I was like, it's been five days.

864
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: I'm sure they have at this point. I'm sure they have.

865
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: And they hadn't. They fucking hadn't. Yeah, even the even

866
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:41,919
Speaker 1: the the cop said it was three or four days ago,

867
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: which meant that was Friday. I had got up and

868
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: showed the cameras on the Friday previous, so he had

869
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: been talked to maybe Monday or Tuesday. It's not a

870
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: huge place. It won't take that long to get there, right,

871
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: doing the bare minimum after so long, it's and if

872
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 1: you hadn't done that, they wouldn't have done that. Yeah,

873
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's like knowing that kind of information, like

874
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: how valuable that information is and having that sort of

875
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: sense like you literally just heard him say that and

876
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 1: you're like, well, what doesn't sound right and you wouldn't

877
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: looked right, Like just having that having that extra, that

878
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: extra sense to ping your mind when you're like, wait,

879
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 1: doesn't I don't trust that? And actually I will say too.

880
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: It's just it did boggle my mind that the city

881
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: Hall did not have cameras, you know, so what and

882
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: the library and the and the fire department, I mean, yeah,

883
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: is surrounded by all of their city hubs. Um. Yeah,

884
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: it's it's in line of vision from all of the Yeah,

885
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: the city Hall, the fire department, the Cultural Center, the

886
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 1: Sheriff's department is just down the street. It's wild. It's wild. Um,

887
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, I share that as we talk about also, yes,

888
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: we have our our cameras in our our pockets. We

889
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: can document things we can and be responsible with that

890
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,359
Speaker 1: and take it to the right places. But yeah, if

891
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: something pops into your head like maybe this should be

892
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: looked into, you should talk to somebody. Don't just assume

893
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: that the cops have done it, you know, if there's

894
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: even Yeah, and if it's just one question, like I

895
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 1: could think of a question that a person could be

896
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: asked and if you can make that phone call, um,

897
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: just so you have that information to counteract a lot

898
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: you might hear later on. Yeah. Yeah, And it's a

899
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: matter of you know, when you hold police accountable for this,

900
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: you know it's gonna be you know, and I knew

901
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 1: this that it was going to make what I do

902
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 1: a hell of a lot harder. And I was definitely

903
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 1: tentative to do it because of the families, the victims

904
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 1: of the families that I work with, and this could

905
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: hurt me helping their cases. But I had to. I

906
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 1: had to just say, I can't, I can't sit still

907
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: for this, you mean putting your relationship with Yeah. Yeah,

908
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: if anybody now googles me and so, you know, and

909
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: and looks at my social media, they're going to see

910
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: that that I was taking. I was publicly you know,

911
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: taking this, uh, this department and their detectives to task.

912
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 1: And you know, while I would do that privately and

913
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 1: I would yell at detectives and stuff over the phone

914
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,760
Speaker 1: and things, but I would never do it publicly because

915
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 1: I wanted to because for the victims families, I wanted

916
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: to maintain those those you know relationships. But uh, you know,

917
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: I just couldn't sit there and you know, while being

918
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 1: lied to and uh and this was just a small,

919
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 1: you know, tip of the iceberg. I mean, yeah, at

920
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: some point we have to like take a stand and

921
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: call it what it is, what we're seeing it as anyway,

922
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 1: And UM, I really appreciate that you did, because we

923
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: had this this conversation. Um, yeah, and maybe, yeah, maybe

924
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 1: something will come with this, but well, I'm certainly going

925
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 1: to continue to show up and pay attention to this,

926
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 1: do what I can, um, and I hope our listeners

927
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 1: do as well, and also pay attention to the stories

928
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: that are happening in your town because they are happening. Yeah,

929
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: the local stuff doesn't get that the attention um it

930
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 1: needs until until it does. Um. Sometimes it bubbles up

931
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:18,919
Speaker 1: at the top, but no, and the people who um, yeah,

932
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: it's sustained attention is the only thing that actually brings

933
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 1: any of this to a positive resolution. Like if you're

934
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 1: wondering why things don't like like why a lot of

935
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: these you know, murders don't end in any sort of justice,

936
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 1: Like why nothing's ever solved, Some of that has to

937
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: do with the fact that people lose interest and move

938
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: on and it burns out. And yeah, like we were

939
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: talking about, like when are the when is somebody should

940
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 1: get fired if anything, uh, for the incompetent way they've

941
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: dealt with this case. Yeah, and that one that will

942
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,800
Speaker 1: happen if protest after protests keeps happening and keeps happening

943
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: and they keep demanding fire somebody. You fuck this up, Um,

944
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: and that's how it happens. Yeah, Billy, Uh, do you

945
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 1: wanna tell our listeners where they can find you a

946
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,280
Speaker 1: line plug any projects stuff like that? Sure? Yeah, so,

947
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 1: Uh you can find me at Billy Jensen on both

948
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram. I'm on two podcasts, one called Jensen

949
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: and Holds the Murder Squad with UH with Golden State

950
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 1: killer investigator Paul Holes, and we we do a lot

951
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:26,919
Speaker 1: of the things that we're talking about here. We're trying

952
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 1: to solve cold cases using the public's help. So if

953
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: you're interest to check that out. I'm also on a

954
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: podcast called The First Degree, which are more adjudicated cases

955
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 1: being told from somebody who's one degree away from the

956
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:42,879
Speaker 1: perpetrator or the victim. Um. I'll be on the I'll

957
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: Be Gone in the Dark UH docuseries which starts on June.

958
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: The book that Michelle McNamara, my friend who was writing

959
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: and then she passed away in the middle of it,

960
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 1: and me and her researcher, Paul Haynes helped finish it

961
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: so and then which led to helping solve that case.

962
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: I think it led to promoting or promoting awareness, Promoting

963
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 1: awareness leading to more more resources leading towards the solve. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep,

964
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: and then just you know, just keep on plugging away.

965
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:19,280
Speaker 1: My book Chased Darkness with Me just came out on paperback.

966
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,919
Speaker 1: There's a new chapter about the Allenstown for the Bear

967
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 1: Brooke case, and um, a lot of a lot of

968
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:27,359
Speaker 1: things in there if you want to do any kind

969
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: of citizen detective work. A lot of tips and how

970
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: to guys too. Awesome, that's fascinating. Thank you so much

971
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 1: for taking the time to chat with us. This has

972
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: been awesome. All right, Well, thank you so much for

973
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: having me. And that's it. That does it for us today.

974
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: Thanks again, Billy for joining us today. That was a

975
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: fascinating conversation. I liked it because of how it went. Yeah,

976
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 1: that's good. True. You guys can check us out online

977
00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: at worst your pod on Instagram and Twitter. Uh yeah,

978
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 1: follow Billie. He gave you all of that information, so

979
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,840
Speaker 1: I'm not going to repeat it. Yeah, we just talked

980
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah you know what, bye, I hope. Yeah.

981
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: Do you want to plug your own plugs? Plugs? No? Okay?

982
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: You can follow Robert and I write okay on Twitter.

983
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 1: You can follow Katie and Cody on Twitter and Instagram

984
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: because they're adults. Katie is at Katie Stole and h

985
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: Cody is at Dr Mr Cody. We have a t

986
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: public store. That's true. Also keep wearing your face and

987
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: washing your hands, but also by everything everything I tried.

988
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: Worst Year Ever is a production of I heart Radio.

989
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i

990
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, a podcasts or wherever you listen to

991
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.