WEBVTT - TechStuff Goes to a Better Place 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.200 Get in touch with technology with tech stuff from how 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:13.720 stuff Works dot com ky and welcome to text Stuff. 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:18.120 I'm Jonathan Strickland, and this week we have a guest host, 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:21.080 Ben Bolon of car stuff and Stuff they Don't Want 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:24.520 You to Know and brain stuff and other stuff. Lauren 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.680 is out this week, so Ben has kindly offered to 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:30.600 step in. So thank you very much, Ben. Oh, thank you. 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:34.479 This is uh, this is fantastic, big fan. Uh the 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.520 last time I was here, I used a joke longtime fan, 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.080 first time co host, and uh, we can't use that 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:42.199 one again. Yeah, but I'm doing that thing where you 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:46.000 just say it anyway. Um. Yeah, So thank you so 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:48.760 much for having me on the show, especially because this 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.680 is a topic that you hipped me too. And I think, um, 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:57.920 I think that this presents a fantastic cautionary tale, yes, 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.320 and a fantastic almost hariensic experience on our part. Yeah. Yeah. 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.959 What Ben is referring to is the topic better Place 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.960 a company that This was actually a request that a 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:12.160 listeners and in the listener Russell via email wrote in 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:13.880 and said it would be great if you could do 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.199 a podcast on a better Place electric car project. Following 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:19.520 up on your Tesla podcast. It would be interesting to 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.400 show the other approaches that are being tried around the world. 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:25.600 And before we get into this, I really want to 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.800 give a shout out to Max Chafkin, who wrote an 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:32.560 article for Fast Company. It's a phenomenal, phenomenal piece that 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:38.040 really details the entire life cycle of Better Place, which 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:41.480 it was not long. So, first of all, spoiler alert folks, 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.520 better better Place. Better Place has gone to a better place. Yeah, 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:50.840 it's gone somewhere for sure. And uh, it's it's strange 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:54.240 because I think that's such a fantastic name for a company. 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.680 It made me so sad, particularly considering what the whole 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:01.200 thrust of this company was. As Soul has already mentioned, 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.600 it has to do with electric vehicles. And the article 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:06.120 at Fast Company, by the way, if you ever want 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.560 to look it up, is called a Broken Place, the 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.720 spectacular failure of the startup that was going to change 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.840 the world. And really that is a pretty accurate assessment 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.639 of what went on. It's um, you know, it's unfortunate 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:24.160 because again, the the the premise, the whole purpose of 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.280 this company was a noble one, right, The idea of 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:31.800 creating an infrastructure for electric vehicles because one of the 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:33.880 things we talked about, and and Ben you've talked about 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.040 this a lot on car stuff, is how going to 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:41.680 an alternative fuel source is a huge, huge endeavor. Yeah, 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:47.440 because there's already such a massive conglomeration of sunk cost 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:51.360 in our current fuel sources. You know, the the idea 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:56.960 of uh rebuilding essentially an interstate system and and and 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:01.120 rebuilding every single gas station that we have, and just 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.400 think about how many gas stations you see in twenty 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:07.600 four hours and having having to make just even just 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.799 one gas station every fifty miles into an electric one 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:15.280 is a herculean endeavor. And I just want to put 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.960 in um put in one seed here. The reason you know, 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.120 you've heard this story about why they named this company 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:24.480 a Better Place, right, it's uh yeah, it's apparently it's 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:31.040 based on the founder Shy Augussi. Uh he had a 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:36.360 visit to the World Economic Forum Switzerland, you remember this. Yeah, 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.400 he went to that that forum, which was had a 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:44.600 whole bunch of young entrepreneurs obviously, and he started getting 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:49.080 interested in this idea of alternative fuel Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.960 and uh he there was a question asked by a 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:55.040 guy named Klaus Schwab there who said, how do you 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:59.360 make the world a better place by and uh, this 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.440 guy who would go on to found Better Place decided that, 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.880 you know, this would be my inspiration, right, and and 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:12.280 that led up to the origin of this origin of 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:17.640 this company. In two thousands seven, they publicly launched. Yeah, 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:20.200 and I'm sorry, I guess I'm jumping over because we 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.120 should talk about their grandiose plan, right. Sure, But back 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:25.360 in two thousand five was when he went to this meeting, 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.560 and uh, you know, his his idea of a better 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:31.200 place was to get the world off of oil dependency. 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.400 And uh, one thing we have to point out is 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:39.600 shy Agassy came from Israel, and uh, and obviously if 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:41.920 you want to you have to look at politics as 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.440 part of this. It's not an economics. It's not just 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:48.640 the idea of a green movement, right, which was already 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.320 becoming a huge thing in the mid two thousand's. The 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.000 green technology was one of those kind of rising star 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.479 industries that idea that we should really invest in this 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.880 because it's the next big thing. Anyone who was paying 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.120 attention to tech in the mid two thousands, mid to 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:07.279 late two thousand's, you know that was like a buzzword 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:12.279 of buzzwords. Right. It's kind of faded since then, Not 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:16.640 that people are less interested in developing green technology, it's 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:19.640 just no longer this like for a while it was 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.680 a bandwagon thing, right. Yeah, that's that's a perfect way 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.120 to say it, because for for a number of years, 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.159 for a period of time, this would be something where 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:33.480 every company, every tech company especially had some sort of 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.640 green initiative, right, it was you were just supposed to 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:40.359 have one, you know. Yeah, And so shy Augussy was 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:44.240 really kind of jumping on this this momentum. Uh, and 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.440 he well, we'll be talking a lot about him in 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:51.239 this podcast and about how he kind of had these 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:55.880 grandiose ideas, Like you said, this grandiose plan, this enormous 0:05:56.360 --> 0:06:02.640 kind of showman sort of persona, very P. T. Barnum, 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.480 very Elon Musk in many ways, will be will be 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.360 kind of comparing him and contrasting him with Elon Musk 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.080 as well, because there's another guy who very similar in 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.280 that he went with electric vehicles as his as one 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:21.200 of his big initiatives and is definitely a market marketing genius, 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:26.400 very type a personality, very charismatic, but also can rub 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.640 people the wrong way. You know, he's he's got a 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.120 very specific vision and if you don't fall in line 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.880 with it, there can be lots of friction. Well so 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.560 is shy Agassie. But I guess he perhaps had a 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:45.240 less um strategic approach, a methodical Yeah. So that grandiose 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.960 plan was to be able to come up with a 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:53.720 system and infrastructure that would support a fleet of electric vehicles, 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:58.520 where in ideal situations, you could get an entire country, 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:04.200 in this case Israel, to switch from gasoline powered vehicles 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:08.560 to electric vehicles. Uh. And I mean it was he 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.960 he was starting to make promises before there was any 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:16.560 kind of idea of a company, let alone a business plan, 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.120 Like there wasn't even there wasn't even a thing to 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.480 have a business plan yet, and he was already starting 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:25.280 to make these sort of big promises. Um. He and 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:29.960 another guy uh started to think up, Uh, you know what, 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.520 how could we how can we create a proposal for this? 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:37.480 And that other guy would be Um Andresor, who was 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:41.240 CEO of a company called Bioprocessors, And they wrote a 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:46.480 white paper called Transforming Global Transportation, which became kind of 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:51.360 a rock star white paper at various conferences around the world. Right, like, 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:56.880 of course you've read Transforming Global Transportation, And even people 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:02.280 who used to work for Better Lace are still like, 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:07.160 even after all the the crazy kind of roller coaster 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.800 events that they've gone through, and even uh, even after 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:12.680 the ones who will say, like you, I guess it 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.720 kind of went off the reservation, Uh, they will still 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:21.040 cite this paper as being an inspirational paper. So it's 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.960 not that necessarily the ideas were bad. It's just a 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.040 question whether or not they were actionable and the way 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.239 that the Better Place went about it, right, the application 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.160 of of these ideas, And you know, I'm I'm just 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:39.200 gonna get on one little soapbox here, Jonathan. It's true 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.120 that the state of global transportation and the state of 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.240 global energy supply is ultimately the way it's going now. 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:50.800 It's unsustainable, and sure, it's it's not gonna be a 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:55.080 perpetual motion machine, and it's it can be often politically 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.080 charged for people to say that, but especially as you 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.920 and I were talking about off air earlier, especially in 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:08.080 the case of Israel, neighbor neighbor, too many uh nations 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.679 with which it has at best, and a sense of 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:17.160 animosity right there there's certainly huge amounts of conflict between 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:21.480 Israel and a lot of oil producing nations. So Israel 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:26.040 has some very politically motivated reasons to get off of 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.440 the dependency on oil. The United States is not that 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.720 much different in many ways. If you look back to 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.880 the proposals under the the Bush administration about moving to 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:40.080 a hydrogen based economy, one of the big incentives was 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:45.160 for uh, for for this this national security reason to 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.680 get off of the dependency for oil. And so it's 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:53.640 not just this environmental approach, although that's largely the way 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:58.160 Better Place was positioned because it's it's a feel good 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.760 way of saying, hey, this is an impor and technology 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.960 to invest in, but from a uh, you know, just 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:08.040 a national security standpoint, it also had real importance. So 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:12.160 this is something we have to address because otherwise no 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.760 one would have sunk money into this this venture. And 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:16.760 as it turns out, people sunk a lot of money 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:22.360 into it. Oh yeah, let's see. So the first the 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:27.400 first round, because it was first, they got a hundred 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.839 million from one investor alone, just a hundred million, plus 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:33.839 thirty million of his own particular his own fund, so 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:38.000 a hundred million from his company and thirty million more 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:42.160 from him, and then ultimately they raised another two hundred million. 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.400 So I think you you know, some reports say two 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:49.360 hundred fifty million. Ultimately you're looking around three hundred million 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:54.319 in that initial funding round, and that is a lot 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:59.000 of money, don't know if you realize this. Yeah. So, 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.720 so one of the reasons we can talk about, uh, 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.480 this being a great case study is that if you 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:08.440 look at the dot com era, the dot com bubble burst, 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.040 one of the things that that people bring up over 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.920 and over is how these companies that didn't have any 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:16.560 sort of way of generating revenue, they had no product, 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:21.079 yet we're getting crazy amounts of venture capital early, early, 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.080 early in their phase in their life cycle, and it 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.000 meant that you had people with tons of capital, were 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:33.079 burned through and no real incentive to rain all that 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:38.240 in and take a very methodical and and conservative approach 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:40.600 to building a business plan. Yeah. I think that's a 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:44.480 really good point because in when you first brought up 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:48.520 this idea, this this seems like such a fantastic comparison. Now, 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:52.160 of course it's not exactly apples to apples, but but 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.959 with so much money to to have all of this 0:11:56.200 --> 0:12:02.320 cash and none of the focus required the strategy right. 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.480 If you had a smaller investment, then you would be 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.440 forced to focus on how do you how do you 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:12.679 bring about this idea of creating a an infrastructure that 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.400 will support electric vehicles throughout an entire nation. You know, 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.600 if you have a limited budget, then you have to say, 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.560 all right, we can't do everything, so let's focus on 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.320 what we can do and prioritize what we can do, 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.320 and that way we can really focus, be really really careful, 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.920 and we can build incrementally. When you get this huge investment, 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:34.840 then you think, hey, we can do everything. So let's 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.280 let's do you know, let's have first of all, let's 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:41.000 have crazy amenities. You know, let's let's do that startup 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.000 thing where you have the uh the headquarters office that 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:48.599 has all the bells and whistles. Yeah, yeah, exactly, that 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.640 kind of thing, the the infinity swimming pool that's in 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:55.360 the executive lounge, that kind of musical guests, yes, you 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.959 know who knows, uh, we do. We will talk more 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.160 about that a little bit late or two. Not the 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:04.200 musical guest part, beside the crazy amenities. And it just 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.640 meant that you lacked that focus and that was probably 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:11.080 one of the many reasons because this this is a 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.480 complex issue. It's not like you can point at one 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:17.120 thing and say this is the reason this ultimately failed. 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.520 That's yeah, that's that's an excellent point too, because one 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:25.959 of the one of the valuable things that a dissection 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.320 of this situation does is it helps give us a 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:34.479 behind the curtain look at why so many similar companies 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:39.400 fail or succeed. And and when we look at when 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.080 we look at a lot of these companies, here's the 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.640 thing that gets me. Um. One thing a lot of 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.480 companies have in common with this, whether it's auto or 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:50.160 just pure tech, is that there is very easily a 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.880 cult of personality that forms. Yes, yes, as I mean, 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.400 we see that in over and over again, right uh. 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.240 And it depends on the personality how that cult ends 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.080 up kind of being uh projected, like how how the 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.200 fans fall in line, because you could say that about 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.800 Bill Gates, could certainly say that about Steve Jobs Elon 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.280 Musk very very similar. So you can see this over 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.240 and over. Not every company has like the figurehead that 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:20.200 people identify around. Sometimes it's more around a brand and 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.920 not a person, but you still get this kind of 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.000 cult of personality. It is just depending on whether or 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:29.320 not it it forms around an individual or around just 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:33.040 a brand identity. Now, we haven't really talked about what 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.920 they had planned on doing, and that's largely because they 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:40.440 didn't have a really firm um plan in place until 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.840 after the company itself had formed. Now the company formed 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:47.480 in two thousand seven, and generally speaking, the plan was 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:52.560 to seek out government subsidies and tax incentives to try 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:57.800 and develop a positive environment for electric vehicles, and that 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:02.800 Better Place would partner car manufacturers to develop cars that 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:06.240 would be electric, that would have specific types of battery 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.960 packs that would be compatible with what Better Place would provide, 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:14.160 which would be charging stations and battery swapping stations. So 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.800 the idea would be, if you bought a car that 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.920 was compatible with Better Places stations, you would be able 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.800 to recharge there and get your battery swapped out for 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:29.200 a subscription fee. This, this to me, was fascinating, this 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.080 idea that that Agassi had of how about we create 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.720 a company that's similar to cell phones. Yeah, you buy 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.760 a you buy a package and a service, right, Yeah, 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.400 you get a subsidized car that would be like a 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.520 subsidized cell phone. This would be like the way cell 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.560 phone plans traditionally have been in the United States. It's 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.640 not like that all around the world. You know, there's 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.240 some places in the world where you buy the unsubsidized 0:15:55.320 --> 0:16:01.400 phone full price, but then your monthly service services are 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.480 less than what do we get in the US. In 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.200 the US, you buy a subsidized phone, but then you're 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.560 under contract for you know, usually two years is typical, 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.680 and you get you know, you're paying for that really 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.200 in those those fees month to month as opposed to 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.960 buying it all up front. Well, he was talking about 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.480 doing a similar thing with cars, where your purchase price 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.680 for a car would be lower. He was saying at 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:29.160 the time Agassy that the electric vehicles would be about 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:33.360 half of what you would get for a uh comparable 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.200 gasoline powered car, which had other experts in the field 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:40.120 scratching their heads and say, say, what, how are you 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.680 making this promise? How can you promise to produce an 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:48.080 electric vehicle for that low because we're building electric vehicles 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.040 and it is expensive. Yeah, even if you build them 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.840 like gangbusters. That's the thing that's something that even Ellen 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:58.840 Musk has not reached yet. The economy of scale, right yeah. 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.280 He His for approach was to go with let's build 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:06.479 the sexiest electric vehicle we can, which was the Tesla Roadster. 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.000 And sure enough, there are people who are like, man, 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.719 that thing just looks like it looks like it's fast 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.919 when it's standing still. Yeah, let's have celebrities drive it, 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:19.040 Let's have let's have people, let's influence the influencers. Right, 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:21.240 so we're getting people who are not just celebrities but 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:25.439 also business leaders, particularly since they were catering mainly to 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:29.359 San Francisco, they were getting all the other tech company leaders, 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.320 you know, like Google for example, getting really interested in 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.720 these vehicles. And then they said, what we'll do is 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:39.000 will continue to court the high end market. At first, 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:43.760 We'll use that money to build out an infrastructure, supercharging stations, 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:45.480 things like that. That's what you're starting to see now 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.359 with the super charging stations being built across the United States. 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.320 Even in states where it is not currently legal to 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.960 buy a vehicle, you have to leave the state to 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:56.960 buy it. It's not that it's illegal to drive it. 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.520 It's perfectly legal to drive the vehicles. But because of 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.920 you know, that's an entirely different episode, but because of 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:08.679 issues with car dealerships because Tesla they sell the cars direct, 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:13.840 right direct to the customer, unlike all other auto manufacturers 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:17.600 that go through dealerships. Right, the big three give wholesale 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.359 to a dealership who then sells to the end user. 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.040 With with Tesla, you're right, that is ah, that is 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.720 a different bag of badgers or a box of circuits. 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.960 But um, but it is really important to say because 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.879 I think that's a brilliant comparison. When we look at this, 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:38.119 if we compare better Place and Tesla, one of the 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:41.320 big big differences, right, maybe I would submit to you 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:45.640 the biggest difference is that Tesla said one car, make 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:49.520 it awesome, top of the market, and then baby steps 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.560 and and better Place. Their approach was, let's try and 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:58.919 aim for the moderate car, the basic car market, trying 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:02.920 to hit at your average consumer, right, go for that person, 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:07.280 and then you will end up just just hitting that 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.679 across the entire market, which in this case really was Israel, 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:14.320 like we were saying before, although there were plans, grandiose 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.080 plans again to immediately expand in other markets like Denmark 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.640 in Australia. Those were the three original ones Israel, Denmark, 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:25.480 Australia and with more plans of expanding into the United 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:29.399 States and other countries as well. Now you you also 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.960 had you had also mentioned before. This is good because 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:36.760 when we talk about the cult of personality and the beginning, 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.760 people really on board with better place. And he even 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.840 um he even made an appearance at TED conference. Right 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.560 in two thousand nine, he took the stage at TED conference. 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:51.520 He laid us plan of selling millions of electronic vehicles 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:55.040 in Israel. He supported it with this idea of the infrastructure. 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.320 They wanted to make the charging stations in the battery 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.560 swapping stations. And you know, it was a compel argument, 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.959 the idea of look, we're not saying build an electric 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.760 vehicle with no support. We're saying, let's partner with electrical 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:12.040 vehicles like some manufacturers, uh, and partner with them to 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:16.200 produce vehicles. Will also produce the infrastructure by building out 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.680 these charging stations and battery swapping stations, and then there'll 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:22.720 be no excuse to not swap over. You just tell 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:26.400 the customer, hey, look, it's a cheap vehicle because we're 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.000 subsidizing it. It's lower than your car. Note if you 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:32.320 bought a gas vehicle, yeah, you don't have to you'll 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.680 have a subscription where you'll end up paying a certain 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.040 amount per month, but look, it's going to be lower 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.400 than your gas bill would be like to to pay 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:43.840 for the fuel to fuel your car, right, and you'll 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:45.560 even be able to charge it at home. I mean, 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.639 think about some of the promises were crazy, Like you 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:51.680 could have a basic charging cable installed in your house 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:55.960 for free, or you could pay five bucks and get 0:20:56.000 --> 0:21:01.040 a robot automated charging station you pull. Imagine pulling into 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:05.680 your garage and a robotic arm jets and style plugs 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.280 into your vehicle without you having to do anything else. 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:10.920 And that's just five hundred bucks a five dollar installation 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:15.440 fee to have a fully automated robot arm doing this perfectly. 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:18.560 And this had people excited at ted. I mean they 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.680 got like one of the crazy super long standing ovation. 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:25.479 Whereas you had probably a few people in that audience, 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:27.360 I would imagine a few people who might have had 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:31.640 I don't know, some experience with robotics, let's say experts. Yeah, 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:35.200 people who perhaps worked in the auto industry. Those folks 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:38.480 were probably still sitting in their chairs thinking, hang on, 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:44.640 how can you promise this this free cable installation when 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:48.520 something like that has real cost. I mean, that's incredibly 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:52.560 expensive to put in by itself, let alone a robotic 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:56.080 one that is fully automated. And you know, you that's 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.040 so much research and development to test a system like that, 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.600 To build a system, test it, make sure that it 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:03.919 works properly. You don't want to have, you know, a 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:06.520 robot arm that's just blindly trying to plug in a 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:10.639 cable and scratching up your vehicle. It's trying to charge 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.119 your cat. Yes, exactly right. You know the next thing, 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:15.920 you know, Fluffy's got a couple hundred volts running through her. 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:19.960 That's not that's not good business, right, Well, yeah, absolutely, 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:23.360 And even if we look at it from the angle 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:27.320 of the proprietary nature, which is another sticky thing in 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:30.240 these kind of private public partnerships. Right, you're the idea 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:33.800 of sure, you can buy this vehicle from this manufacturer 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:36.080 and you can charge it at these stations, But if 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:40.240 you buy an electric vehicle from any other manufacturer, it's 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:44.639 not compatible with these charging stations. See that's all right, ben. 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.320 Let me ask you this. Let's say that you, as 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:50.840 a consumer, go to an auto dealership and you're looking 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:53.680 at a line of let's say it's a used car dealership. 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:57.760 Even sound because now you're talking about all sorts of 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:02.040 different auto manufacturers being represented on this one lot, right, 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:03.960 Because otherwise, if you go to a dealership, you're looking 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.320 at like a you know, let's say it's a Toyota dealership, 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:08.800 they're all Toyota vehicles. But if you go to a 0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:12.159 used car dealership, you might see Toyota's, you might see 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:14.840 you know, cars from General Motors, you might see cars 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:17.360 from Forward, you might you know, all of those could 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:21.000 be represented in a big used car lot. If you 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:24.760 buy a gas powered vehicle and then you need to 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:28.760 refuel your vehicle, Um, do you have to worry about 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:32.639 what kind of fueling station you pull into in general? Now, 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:36.240 because any fueling station you go to is going to 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:42.000 have fuel pumps that fit all cars because that's standardized. Right. Yeah, 0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:43.840 So you don't have to worry, Like if you bought 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:46.600 a car from Toyota, or you bought a car from Ford, 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:49.440 or you bought a car from anywhere else that was 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:53.400 a gasoline powered vehicle, then any gas station you pull 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:56.679 into you can be confident the gas pumps are compatible 0:23:56.840 --> 0:24:00.199 with your car. But now, let's say you on an 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:04.320 electric vehicle. Let's say it's a Tesla, for example, And 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:07.240 let's say that there are other cars like Better Place. 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:09.679 Let's say the Better Place also had cars out on 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:13.280 the market. Now you've got a vehicle that has a 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:18.080