Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. All right, let me
Speaker 1: throw out one metric. I guess I kind of got
Speaker 1: to do this. The global sportswear market size valued at
Speaker 1: nearly four hundred and thirteen billion dollars in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: estimated to reach nearly seven hundred forty nine billion by
Speaker 1: twenty thirty one. And listen, there's a lot of players
Speaker 1: in it and looking to take a share of it.
Speaker 1: Is a partnership. Our next two guests, both with brands
Speaker 1: that are very well known now with a combined brand
Speaker 1: known as Greatness Wins.
Speaker 2: So let's get to the interview with more joining us
Speaker 2: here in the studio. The founder of Vuntucket, who came
Speaker 2: up with the idea for his casual shirts while working
Speaker 2: at GE Healthcare. Chris Ricobono back with us, Also with
Speaker 2: US Hall of Fame shortstop and five time World Series
Speaker 2: champion with the New York Yankees. Also an e commerce
Speaker 2: investor to Derek Jeter, both here in the Bloomberg BusinessWeek studio. Okay, guys,
Speaker 2: first up, we want to know how you guys got together.
Speaker 2: How did this come together? Who called who? Who had
Speaker 2: the idea for who to get involved. How did it
Speaker 2: come ab out?
Speaker 3: That's a good question, and you start, we'll see where
Speaker 3: version comes out.
Speaker 4: I was going to say Derek reached out to me,
Speaker 4: but that's not how it worked. So I over the pandemic.
Speaker 4: I was looking to solve another problem in the fashion industry,
Speaker 4: and I thought about athletic apparel and it didn't exist
Speaker 4: for me. Something that had a great fit but also
Speaker 4: had performance first in mind. So I came up with
Speaker 4: this concept in this idea, but now I wanted a
Speaker 4: few athletes behind me. And at the time, I think
Speaker 4: Derek might have still had a contract with Nike or
Speaker 4: it was winding down, and I didn't think that I
Speaker 4: could get to him or that he'd be interested. But
Speaker 4: after a year of bothering him and his agents, he
Speaker 4: actually called me and said, Chris, I'm just not that
Speaker 4: interested and excited in this. But I said, he can't
Speaker 4: get off say he can't get off the phone, Derek,
Speaker 4: how can I get you excited? So we talked for
Speaker 4: a while after that, and we kind of came together
Speaker 4: with both of our visions. You know, I'm apparel guy.
Speaker 4: That's the way I think about it. Derek's was a
Speaker 4: successful entrepreneur but also very successful, as you know, a
Speaker 4: Nike guy, So I knew that he had a lot
Speaker 4: of insight that I didn't have, and he shared it
Speaker 4: with me, and we launched a brand about a year
Speaker 4: and a half ago and we're having great success.
Speaker 1: Okay, you weren't excited and then you became excited. How
Speaker 1: that happened? How did you make that turn?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 3: I think you know, first and foremost getting to know Chris,
Speaker 3: we talked about the idea. I've had relationships with athletic
Speaker 3: brands throughout my career and great relationships and I still
Speaker 3: do today. And you know, when I was first speaking
Speaker 3: to Chris, I was like, well, first of all, you know,
Speaker 3: this is a crowded space. It's not as easy to
Speaker 3: attack this space, and it's going to take some time
Speaker 3: and it's going to take a lot of energy. And
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say I wasn't excited, but I when I
Speaker 3: do something, I'm all in and if I'm not all in,
Speaker 3: I'm just not going to do it. And at that
Speaker 3: point when we were having the discussion, I said, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't think now is the time. And then we
Speaker 3: actually got together, we had a chance to look and
Speaker 3: feel and touch the product, and that started getting me
Speaker 3: very very excited about it. So I guess that's the
Speaker 3: best way to put it in our short period of time.
Speaker 2: You do, though, Derek, probably get a lot of investment pitches,
Speaker 2: not just in the apparel world, but yeah, no question,
Speaker 2: from lots of different entrepreneurs who want your involvement. What
Speaker 2: was it specifically about this one with Chris with Untucket
Speaker 2: that really caught your eye?
Speaker 3: I think it's you got to get to know the
Speaker 3: people any business that you're in the same thing, when
Speaker 3: you're on a team on the field, you have to
Speaker 3: have the right people on the side.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was going to say that, but you didn't give
Speaker 3: me enough time to say. And you know, I just
Speaker 3: found Chris to be very very passionate about it. You
Speaker 3: can't fake passion. You either are you aren't. And you know,
Speaker 3: even when I told him that I wasn't interested, he
Speaker 3: kept calling and we kept having the conversation, and I
Speaker 3: knew when you're if you're going to be successful, you
Speaker 3: need those types of people on your side.
Speaker 1: I always think about that. I remember talking to a
Speaker 1: top m and a banker and he's like, the only
Speaker 1: way you get deals done. Is this CEOs have to
Speaker 1: like each other and that's how you get things come
Speaker 1: to the table. Would you say no to a great
Speaker 1: deal because you didn't like somebody.
Speaker 4: Oh, without a doubt. I mean you end up working
Speaker 4: a lot. It's funny when Derek said that he wanted
Speaker 4: to be more involved and he when he goes all in,
Speaker 4: I was thinking he was just doing that as an
Speaker 4: equity play to get some more equity. Yea, that he
Speaker 4: actually want it to be. And Derek's liked. I mean,
Speaker 4: he wants to talk about everything, every decision, and you
Speaker 4: want somebody who's I want something that yes, because I
Speaker 4: don't know everything and I definitely don't know everything in
Speaker 4: the athletic apparel space. So it's been a this.
Speaker 3: Is recorded, right, I'm gonna play that. We're gonna play
Speaker 3: that back.
Speaker 1: You can do that, you can you can loop it, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Well the same thing for you. I mean, Derek, when
Speaker 1: you get involved in something, how you know? We asked
Speaker 1: about what made this interesting, but in general, how involved
Speaker 1: do you want to be? I mean how much do
Speaker 1: you have to love the brand that you hook up with?
Speaker 3: You have to be involved? I mean, otherwise you're just
Speaker 3: given your money and you're hoping someone else runs with
Speaker 3: it and makes you more. But when you're passionate about something,
Speaker 3: when you put in the time, you put in the effort.
Speaker 3: I think the best thing to say about us is
Speaker 3: we disagree probably more than we agree, and I think
Speaker 3: that's a good thing. I mean, you don't want people
Speaker 3: that always think the same as you, Otherwise you're never
Speaker 3: going to make improvements. You're never going to make progress.
Speaker 1: Is it hard to say no to?
Speaker 2: Derek? Though?
Speaker 1: We just talked with the leadership we are author of
Speaker 1: a leadership book, talked about CEOs who once they get
Speaker 1: to the top, they surround themselves with people who are
Speaker 1: not say who don't say no.
Speaker 4: Listen, I rolled the dice right from the beginning, and
Speaker 4: we went after each other a little bit. But like
Speaker 4: you said, it, uh, it's the best way to go
Speaker 4: about it. Like you want to leave at the end
Speaker 4: of the day and have people go against your views,
Speaker 4: because if they're agreeing with you, you're not going to
Speaker 4: always do the right thing. So I thought that was
Speaker 4: a great I wondered if he was one to because sorry,
Speaker 4: if he was going to want to continue a relationship
Speaker 4: a few times, but it really came together and now
Speaker 4: now we're on the same page and things are going
Speaker 4: really well for us.
Speaker 1: Well, I do wonder when does it get a little tricky,
Speaker 1: Like any partnership, whether it's a marriage, whether it's working relationships,
Speaker 1: whether it's business relationships, there's always tough times. What are
Speaker 1: some of those you're looking at me?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was about to say, just keep going. You
Speaker 3: want to you answer that question?
Speaker 1: No, But I really do feel like a little bit
Speaker 1: of debate or a little bit of arguing, like gets
Speaker 1: you to a better place.
Speaker 3: I think it does. You have to have a difference
Speaker 3: of opinion, like I said, I do like you tim Otherwise,
Speaker 3: like I said, you're not going to make any any
Speaker 3: progress moving forward. And we probably we disagree more than
Speaker 3: we agree, but we do it respectfully. And you know,
Speaker 3: there are some things that I know he's an expert.
Speaker 3: It's impossible to be an expert everything, right. It surrounds
Speaker 3: your people that are much more intelligent in different fields.
Speaker 3: And you know, Chris obviously has a lot of experience
Speaker 3: in the retail space, especially, I have experience when it
Speaker 3: comes to athletic brands. So it's okay for us to disagree.
Speaker 2: So Chris, let's go there because this is a really
Speaker 2: crowded space. You mentioned Nike, but I mean if you
Speaker 2: think about up starts like Viory Rohan, then there are
Speaker 2: the big players like Nike, Adidas and the like. How
Speaker 2: do you carve out a place for you specifically?
Speaker 4: So my it's funny. Just like with on Tucket, I
Speaker 4: really needed this product and you might ask why. You know,
Speaker 4: there's plenty of athletic brands and athlesire brands. For me,
Speaker 4: the athletic brands that existed, the quality wasn't there, the
Speaker 4: consistency of fit wasn't there. They were designed for performance,
Speaker 4: but they didn't have that modern fit. The athleisure brands
Speaker 4: have an incredible fit, very high quality fabrics, but not
Speaker 4: designed with performance first in mind. So I wanted a
Speaker 4: really high end athletic brand that had a great fit
Speaker 4: but also was meant to work out and would withstand
Speaker 4: being washed, not pilling. Something that all athletes, not just
Speaker 4: professional athletes, could use all the time. And it's not inexpensive,
Speaker 4: so you want it to last for a long time.
Speaker 4: And I think that that's where we are differentiate from
Speaker 4: these other brands. We're not athleisure, we're not athletic. We're
Speaker 4: kind of a blend of both, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: I've got yoga pants on that are pilling a little bit,
Speaker 1: so I totally get you. What's the kind of what's
Speaker 1: the growth trajectory? Tell me what we can tell we're Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: We love numbers, you know that. What's the growth on this?
Speaker 3: Well, we need you to go buy some pants.
Speaker 1: We just said, so get right on it to help
Speaker 1: us out.
Speaker 3: But I think for us, I'll let Chris follow up
Speaker 3: on it. I think what we want to show as
Speaker 3: a brand, this is only our second year. We want
Speaker 3: to show progress. You know sometimes when you when when
Speaker 3: you're building a company, a startup company, you want success
Speaker 3: right away to understand you're you're a startup company for
Speaker 3: I think they say ten years. I mean it's a
Speaker 3: long long time. So we want to show some steady progression.
Speaker 3: I'll let Chris get in a number.
Speaker 1: Yeah, ten years before you really feel like it's there.
Speaker 3: No ends on how much you buy, okay, No, I mean.
Speaker 4: So much competition. You want to just stay relevant. You
Speaker 4: want to make a great product. That's the first thing.
Speaker 4: You got to make a great product. You need your
Speaker 4: repeats to be there, which they are for us. The
Speaker 4: other thing that's really exciting with us is not just
Speaker 4: you have the e comm then eventually stores, which is
Speaker 4: what I did with on Tucket. We have a great
Speaker 4: wholesale business we're building at Greatness Wins. We have a
Speaker 4: golf business. We'll be in eighty clubs. We were in
Speaker 4: eighty clubs this spring. We have a bookstore business. Derek
Speaker 4: just wore a Michigan sweatshirt on his Honorey Captain in
Speaker 4: Michigan this weekend. We have a new dance relationship with
Speaker 4: Misty Copeland, who's our women this.
Speaker 1: Same foundary women who do a little bit of shopping.
Speaker 4: So we have something that will be announcing soon. That's exciting.
Speaker 4: So I'm very happy with th earlier are. People love
Speaker 4: the product, they love the quality, and we're just getting going,
Speaker 4: but very excited for the future.
Speaker 1: All Right, We're going to just shift a little bit
Speaker 1: because I am curious, Derek, are you looking for any
Speaker 1: other investments, you know, in sports beyond baseball or maybe
Speaker 1: an MLB team or anything.
Speaker 3: No, I've been down that path. No, take a break
Speaker 3: from that. I spend a lot of time with my
Speaker 3: four kids who are seven and under. So it's a
Speaker 3: full time job, especially when you're talking about Major League
Speaker 3: Baseball ownership. So at this particular point, I think I
Speaker 3: have my hands full.
Speaker 1: So no other Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, when you say take a break, are you ruling
Speaker 2: it out for the future or do you want to
Speaker 2: get back?
Speaker 3: And I learned a long time ago never say never. Yeah,
Speaker 3: because you never know. I as just said it three
Speaker 3: times in a row. But you don't know where the
Speaker 3: future is going to lead you. But at this particular
Speaker 3: point now.
Speaker 1: I do also wonder the two of you, like when
Speaker 1: you think about either ath leisure or athletic appareled you know,
Speaker 1: companies that you look at that you admire or leaders
Speaker 1: you admire. Let me ask you, Chris first, like, is
Speaker 1: there somebody that you look at and say that's who
Speaker 1: I kind of get some cues from.
Speaker 4: Or I mean we always talk about Nike and the
Speaker 4: Jordan brand. Those are the greatest, you know, probably the
Speaker 4: greatest brand maybe ever, so well, you know you want
Speaker 4: to be them, but if you're half half of what
Speaker 4: they become, you're very successful. And I think the ath
Speaker 4: leisure brands are great too. I mean I won't name
Speaker 4: them because you know, but I think there's a lot
Speaker 4: of great brands these days, so we're just trying to differentiate,
Speaker 4: give a reason, you know, why you might need our
Speaker 4: product versus those products, and hopefully it works.
Speaker 1: Leader you look at your smiling.
Speaker 3: No, there's a lot, you know, it's one that comes
Speaker 3: to mind, he said, Jordan Brand. You know, MJ's been
Speaker 3: like a big brother than me. And I think, you know,
Speaker 3: I have young kids now, and you want them to
Speaker 3: choose their career path and find someone that they can
Speaker 3: look up to. You want them to see someone who's
Speaker 3: been successful. And you know, you talk about Michael and
Speaker 3: what he was able to accomplish on the basketball court,
Speaker 3: but I think you look at athletes post playing career.
Speaker 3: He's up there at the top what he's been able
Speaker 3: to accomplish from a business standpoint. So he's someone that
Speaker 3: I look to and go to for advice.
Speaker 1: All Right, you're going to go there, you go world. Seriously,
Speaker 1: I know I have to do this. I have to
Speaker 1: do this, all right, So you're going.
Speaker 3: To be in the booth, right I am, Yes? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Who do you can you think about who might be there?
Speaker 3: I don't know, it depends, you know. I'm not trying
Speaker 3: to skirt the question. I'm really not, But a lot
Speaker 3: of it is matchups. We'll know in a couple of weeks,
Speaker 3: because you know, some teams I know during my careers
Speaker 3: to play Anaheim Angels all the time. We just couldn't
Speaker 3: beat them, and you know, finally we broke through and
Speaker 3: we were able to win in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3: But it all comes down to matchups. So there's some
Speaker 3: good teams out there.
Speaker 1: Chris, you talk baseball, and I'm curious what you might
Speaker 1: think for the World Series.
Speaker 3: This knows nothing about basic.
Speaker 4: You know baseball. I mean, I don't did a deal
Speaker 4: with I don't bother Derek with it, but I'm a
Speaker 4: Yankees fan. We'll see it's they don't seem to be
Speaker 4: able to perform in the playoffs for the last what
Speaker 4: is it fifteen years now.
Speaker 3: We'll discuss it on.
Speaker 1: Hey, listen, guys, got about forty seconds left here really quickly.
Speaker 1: In I don't know, a year from now, what's the
Speaker 1: conversation around your company.
Speaker 4: I think we'll start to look at stores. I mean,
Speaker 4: I love stores. Not many people do in retail. We
Speaker 4: have niney of them on Tucket and we're opening more.
Speaker 4: I think it's really important for the male shoppers. So
Speaker 4: I think we'll at that and we'll look at continued
Speaker 4: growth in these different areas that we discuss, bookstores, golf,
Speaker 4: e commerce. So it's very exciting.
Speaker 1: Same thing for you, Derek in terms of greatness, wins
Speaker 1: and a year from now, what are we going to
Speaker 1: be talking about.
Speaker 3: Oh, I think it's all awareness. You want people to
Speaker 3: be aware. You want to walk around the streets and
Speaker 3: see people wearing it. And I'm very confident in the
Speaker 3: fact that someone buys our product and they wear it,
Speaker 3: they'll be happy with it and they return.
Speaker 1: As a customer and no pilling. You promise, Well, you
Speaker 1: got to tell me. I got Derek, Derek Jeter, of course,
Speaker 1: Chris Ricobono, you guys got me. FLLL mixed