WEBVTT - Derek Jeter on Investing in Greatness

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. All right, let me

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<v Speaker 1>throw out one metric. I guess I kind of got

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<v Speaker 1>to do this. The global sportswear market size valued at

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<v Speaker 1>nearly four hundred and thirteen billion dollars in twenty twenty two,

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<v Speaker 1>estimated to reach nearly seven hundred forty nine billion by

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<v Speaker 1>twenty thirty one. And listen, there's a lot of players

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<v Speaker 1>in it and looking to take a share of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Is a partnership. Our next two guests, both with brands

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<v Speaker 1>that are very well known now with a combined brand

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<v Speaker 1>known as Greatness Wins.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's get to the interview with more joining us

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<v Speaker 2>here in the studio. The founder of Vuntucket, who came

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<v Speaker 2>up with the idea for his casual shirts while working

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<v Speaker 2>at GE Healthcare. Chris Ricobono back with us, Also with

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<v Speaker 2>US Hall of Fame shortstop and five time World Series

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<v Speaker 2>champion with the New York Yankees. Also an e commerce

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<v Speaker 2>investor to Derek Jeter, both here in the Bloomberg BusinessWeek studio. Okay, guys,

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<v Speaker 2>first up, we want to know how you guys got together.

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<v Speaker 2>How did this come together? Who called who? Who had

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<v Speaker 2>the idea for who to get involved. How did it

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<v Speaker 2>come ab out?

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<v Speaker 3>That's a good question, and you start, we'll see where

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<v Speaker 3>version comes out.

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<v Speaker 4>I was going to say Derek reached out to me,

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<v Speaker 4>but that's not how it worked. So I over the pandemic.

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<v Speaker 4>I was looking to solve another problem in the fashion industry,

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<v Speaker 4>and I thought about athletic apparel and it didn't exist

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<v Speaker 4>for me. Something that had a great fit but also

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<v Speaker 4>had performance first in mind. So I came up with

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<v Speaker 4>this concept in this idea, but now I wanted a

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<v Speaker 4>few athletes behind me. And at the time, I think

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<v Speaker 4>Derek might have still had a contract with Nike or

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<v Speaker 4>it was winding down, and I didn't think that I

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<v Speaker 4>could get to him or that he'd be interested. But

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<v Speaker 4>after a year of bothering him and his agents, he

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<v Speaker 4>actually called me and said, Chris, I'm just not that

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<v Speaker 4>interested and excited in this. But I said, he can't

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<v Speaker 4>get off say he can't get off the phone, Derek,

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<v Speaker 4>how can I get you excited? So we talked for

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<v Speaker 4>a while after that, and we kind of came together

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<v Speaker 4>with both of our visions. You know, I'm apparel guy.

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<v Speaker 4>That's the way I think about it. Derek's was a

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<v Speaker 4>successful entrepreneur but also very successful, as you know, a

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<v Speaker 4>Nike guy, So I knew that he had a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of insight that I didn't have, and he shared it

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<v Speaker 4>with me, and we launched a brand about a year

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<v Speaker 4>and a half ago and we're having great success.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, you weren't excited and then you became excited. How

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<v Speaker 1>that happened? How did you make that turn?

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<v Speaker 4>Well?

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<v Speaker 3>I think you know, first and foremost getting to know Chris,

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<v Speaker 3>we talked about the idea. I've had relationships with athletic

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<v Speaker 3>brands throughout my career and great relationships and I still

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<v Speaker 3>do today. And you know, when I was first speaking

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<v Speaker 3>to Chris, I was like, well, first of all, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>this is a crowded space. It's not as easy to

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<v Speaker 3>attack this space, and it's going to take some time

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<v Speaker 3>and it's going to take a lot of energy. And

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<v Speaker 3>I wouldn't say I wasn't excited, but I when I

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<v Speaker 3>do something, I'm all in and if I'm not all in,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm just not going to do it. And at that

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<v Speaker 3>point when we were having the discussion, I said, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think now is the time. And then we

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<v Speaker 3>actually got together, we had a chance to look and

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<v Speaker 3>feel and touch the product, and that started getting me

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<v Speaker 3>very very excited about it. So I guess that's the

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<v Speaker 3>best way to put it in our short period of time.

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<v Speaker 2>You do, though, Derek, probably get a lot of investment pitches,

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<v Speaker 2>not just in the apparel world, but yeah, no question,

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<v Speaker 2>from lots of different entrepreneurs who want your involvement. What

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<v Speaker 2>was it specifically about this one with Chris with Untucket

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<v Speaker 2>that really caught your eye?

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's you got to get to know the

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<v Speaker 3>people any business that you're in the same thing, when

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<v Speaker 3>you're on a team on the field, you have to

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<v Speaker 3>have the right people on the side.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I was going to say that, but you didn't give

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<v Speaker 3>me enough time to say. And you know, I just

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<v Speaker 3>found Chris to be very very passionate about it. You

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<v Speaker 3>can't fake passion. You either are you aren't. And you know,

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<v Speaker 3>even when I told him that I wasn't interested, he

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<v Speaker 3>kept calling and we kept having the conversation, and I

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<v Speaker 3>knew when you're if you're going to be successful, you

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<v Speaker 3>need those types of people on your side.

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<v Speaker 1>I always think about that. I remember talking to a

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<v Speaker 1>top m and a banker and he's like, the only

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<v Speaker 1>way you get deals done. Is this CEOs have to

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<v Speaker 1>like each other and that's how you get things come

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<v Speaker 1>to the table. Would you say no to a great

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<v Speaker 1>deal because you didn't like somebody.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh, without a doubt. I mean you end up working

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<v Speaker 4>a lot. It's funny when Derek said that he wanted

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<v Speaker 4>to be more involved and he when he goes all in,

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<v Speaker 4>I was thinking he was just doing that as an

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<v Speaker 4>equity play to get some more equity. Yea, that he

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<v Speaker 4>actually want it to be. And Derek's liked. I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>he wants to talk about everything, every decision, and you

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<v Speaker 4>want somebody who's I want something that yes, because I

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<v Speaker 4>don't know everything and I definitely don't know everything in

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<v Speaker 4>the athletic apparel space. So it's been a this.

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<v Speaker 3>Is recorded, right, I'm gonna play that. We're gonna play

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<v Speaker 3>that back.

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<v Speaker 1>You can do that, you can you can loop it, yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Well the same thing for you. I mean, Derek, when

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<v Speaker 1>you get involved in something, how you know? We asked

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<v Speaker 1>about what made this interesting, but in general, how involved

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<v Speaker 1>do you want to be? I mean how much do

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<v Speaker 1>you have to love the brand that you hook up with?

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<v Speaker 3>You have to be involved? I mean, otherwise you're just

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<v Speaker 3>given your money and you're hoping someone else runs with

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<v Speaker 3>it and makes you more. But when you're passionate about something,

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<v Speaker 3>when you put in the time, you put in the effort.

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<v Speaker 3>I think the best thing to say about us is

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<v Speaker 3>we disagree probably more than we agree, and I think

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<v Speaker 3>that's a good thing. I mean, you don't want people

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<v Speaker 3>that always think the same as you, Otherwise you're never

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<v Speaker 3>going to make improvements. You're never going to make progress.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it hard to say no to?

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<v Speaker 2>Derek? Though?

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<v Speaker 1>We just talked with the leadership we are author of

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<v Speaker 1>a leadership book, talked about CEOs who once they get

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<v Speaker 1>to the top, they surround themselves with people who are

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<v Speaker 1>not say who don't say no.

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<v Speaker 4>Listen, I rolled the dice right from the beginning, and

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<v Speaker 4>we went after each other a little bit. But like

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<v Speaker 4>you said, it, uh, it's the best way to go

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<v Speaker 4>about it. Like you want to leave at the end

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<v Speaker 4>of the day and have people go against your views,

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<v Speaker 4>because if they're agreeing with you, you're not going to

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<v Speaker 4>always do the right thing. So I thought that was

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<v Speaker 4>a great I wondered if he was one to because sorry,

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<v Speaker 4>if he was going to want to continue a relationship

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<v Speaker 4>a few times, but it really came together and now

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<v Speaker 4>now we're on the same page and things are going

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<v Speaker 4>really well for us.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I do wonder when does it get a little tricky,

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<v Speaker 1>Like any partnership, whether it's a marriage, whether it's working relationships,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's business relationships, there's always tough times. What are

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<v Speaker 1>some of those you're looking at me?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I was about to say, just keep going. You

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<v Speaker 3>want to you answer that question?

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<v Speaker 1>No, But I really do feel like a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of debate or a little bit of arguing, like gets

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<v Speaker 1>you to a better place.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it does. You have to have a difference

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<v Speaker 3>of opinion, like I said, I do like you tim Otherwise,

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<v Speaker 3>like I said, you're not going to make any any

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<v Speaker 3>progress moving forward. And we probably we disagree more than

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<v Speaker 3>we agree, but we do it respectfully. And you know,

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<v Speaker 3>there are some things that I know he's an expert.

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<v Speaker 3>It's impossible to be an expert everything, right. It surrounds

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<v Speaker 3>your people that are much more intelligent in different fields.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, Chris obviously has a lot of experience

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<v Speaker 3>in the retail space, especially, I have experience when it

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<v Speaker 3>comes to athletic brands. So it's okay for us to disagree.

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<v Speaker 2>So Chris, let's go there because this is a really

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<v Speaker 2>crowded space. You mentioned Nike, but I mean if you

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<v Speaker 2>think about up starts like Viory Rohan, then there are

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<v Speaker 2>the big players like Nike, Adidas and the like. How

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<v Speaker 2>do you carve out a place for you specifically?

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<v Speaker 4>So my it's funny. Just like with on Tucket, I

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<v Speaker 4>really needed this product and you might ask why. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>there's plenty of athletic brands and athlesire brands. For me,

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<v Speaker 4>the athletic brands that existed, the quality wasn't there, the

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<v Speaker 4>consistency of fit wasn't there. They were designed for performance,

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<v Speaker 4>but they didn't have that modern fit. The athleisure brands

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<v Speaker 4>have an incredible fit, very high quality fabrics, but not

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<v Speaker 4>designed with performance first in mind. So I wanted a

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<v Speaker 4>really high end athletic brand that had a great fit

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<v Speaker 4>but also was meant to work out and would withstand

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<v Speaker 4>being washed, not pilling. Something that all athletes, not just

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<v Speaker 4>professional athletes, could use all the time. And it's not inexpensive,

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<v Speaker 4>so you want it to last for a long time.

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<v Speaker 4>And I think that that's where we are differentiate from

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<v Speaker 4>these other brands. We're not athleisure, we're not athletic. We're

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<v Speaker 4>kind of a blend of both, if that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got yoga pants on that are pilling a little bit,

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<v Speaker 1>so I totally get you. What's the kind of what's

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<v Speaker 1>the growth trajectory? Tell me what we can tell we're Bloomberg.

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<v Speaker 1>We love numbers, you know that. What's the growth on this?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, we need you to go buy some pants.

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<v Speaker 1>We just said, so get right on it to help

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<v Speaker 1>us out.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think for us, I'll let Chris follow up

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<v Speaker 3>on it. I think what we want to show as

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<v Speaker 3>a brand, this is only our second year. We want

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<v Speaker 3>to show progress. You know sometimes when you when when

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<v Speaker 3>you're building a company, a startup company, you want success

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<v Speaker 3>right away to understand you're you're a startup company for

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<v Speaker 3>I think they say ten years. I mean it's a

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<v Speaker 3>long long time. So we want to show some steady progression.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll let Chris get in a number.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, ten years before you really feel like it's there.

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<v Speaker 3>No ends on how much you buy, okay, No, I mean.

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<v Speaker 4>So much competition. You want to just stay relevant. You

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<v Speaker 4>want to make a great product. That's the first thing.

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<v Speaker 4>You got to make a great product. You need your

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<v Speaker 4>repeats to be there, which they are for us. The

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<v Speaker 4>other thing that's really exciting with us is not just

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<v Speaker 4>you have the e comm then eventually stores, which is

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<v Speaker 4>what I did with on Tucket. We have a great

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<v Speaker 4>wholesale business we're building at Greatness Wins. We have a

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<v Speaker 4>golf business. We'll be in eighty clubs. We were in

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<v Speaker 4>eighty clubs this spring. We have a bookstore business. Derek

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<v Speaker 4>just wore a Michigan sweatshirt on his Honorey Captain in

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<v Speaker 4>Michigan this weekend. We have a new dance relationship with

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<v Speaker 4>Misty Copeland, who's our women this.

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<v Speaker 1>Same foundary women who do a little bit of shopping.

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<v Speaker 4>So we have something that will be announcing soon. That's exciting.

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<v Speaker 4>So I'm very happy with th earlier are. People love

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<v Speaker 4>the product, they love the quality, and we're just getting going,

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<v Speaker 4>but very excited for the future.

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<v Speaker 1>All Right, We're going to just shift a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>because I am curious, Derek, are you looking for any

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<v Speaker 1>other investments, you know, in sports beyond baseball or maybe

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<v Speaker 1>an MLB team or anything.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I've been down that path. No, take a break

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<v Speaker 3>from that. I spend a lot of time with my

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<v Speaker 3>four kids who are seven and under. So it's a

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<v Speaker 3>full time job, especially when you're talking about Major League

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<v Speaker 3>Baseball ownership. So at this particular point, I think I

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<v Speaker 3>have my hands full.

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<v Speaker 1>So no other Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, when you say take a break, are you ruling

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<v Speaker 2>it out for the future or do you want to

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<v Speaker 2>get back?

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<v Speaker 3>And I learned a long time ago never say never. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>because you never know. I as just said it three

0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:22.960
<v Speaker 3>times in a row. But you don't know where the

0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.280
<v Speaker 3>future is going to lead you. But at this particular

0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:25.880
<v Speaker 3>point now.

0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:27.839
<v Speaker 1>I do also wonder the two of you, like when

0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:33.200
<v Speaker 1>you think about either ath leisure or athletic appareled you know,

0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:35.400
<v Speaker 1>companies that you look at that you admire or leaders

0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:37.439
<v Speaker 1>you admire. Let me ask you, Chris first, like, is

0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.120
<v Speaker 1>there somebody that you look at and say that's who

0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:41.520
<v Speaker 1>I kind of get some cues from.

0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.800
<v Speaker 4>Or I mean we always talk about Nike and the

0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.560
<v Speaker 4>Jordan brand. Those are the greatest, you know, probably the

0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:50.920
<v Speaker 4>greatest brand maybe ever, so well, you know you want

0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:52.760
<v Speaker 4>to be them, but if you're half half of what

0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.280
<v Speaker 4>they become, you're very successful. And I think the ath

0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:57.800
<v Speaker 4>leisure brands are great too. I mean I won't name

0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:02.040
<v Speaker 4>them because you know, but I think there's a lot

0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:06.000
<v Speaker 4>of great brands these days, so we're just trying to differentiate,

0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.160
<v Speaker 4>give a reason, you know, why you might need our

0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.120
<v Speaker 4>product versus those products, and hopefully it works.

0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Leader you look at your smiling.

0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:17.040
<v Speaker 3>No, there's a lot, you know, it's one that comes

0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.920
<v Speaker 3>to mind, he said, Jordan Brand. You know, MJ's been

0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:21.960
<v Speaker 3>like a big brother than me. And I think, you know,

0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.240
<v Speaker 3>I have young kids now, and you want them to

0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.600
<v Speaker 3>choose their career path and find someone that they can

0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:28.880
<v Speaker 3>look up to. You want them to see someone who's

0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.640
<v Speaker 3>been successful. And you know, you talk about Michael and

0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:34.360
<v Speaker 3>what he was able to accomplish on the basketball court,

0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.320
<v Speaker 3>but I think you look at athletes post playing career.

0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.600
<v Speaker 3>He's up there at the top what he's been able

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<v Speaker 3>to accomplish from a business standpoint. So he's someone that

0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:44.400
<v Speaker 3>I look to and go to for advice.

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<v Speaker 1>All Right, you're going to go there, you go world. Seriously,

0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:49.520
<v Speaker 1>I know I have to do this. I have to

0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.120
<v Speaker 1>do this, all right, So you're going.

0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.160
<v Speaker 3>To be in the booth, right I am, Yes? Yeah?

0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.640
<v Speaker 1>Who do you can you think about who might be there?

0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:57.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, it depends, you know. I'm not trying

0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.480
<v Speaker 3>to skirt the question. I'm really not, But a lot

0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.200
<v Speaker 3>of it is matchups. We'll know in a couple of weeks,

0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.400
<v Speaker 3>because you know, some teams I know during my careers

0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:07.480
<v Speaker 3>to play Anaheim Angels all the time. We just couldn't

0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.079
<v Speaker 3>beat them, and you know, finally we broke through and

0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:11.559
<v Speaker 3>we were able to win in two thousand and nine.

0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:13.800
<v Speaker 3>But it all comes down to matchups. So there's some

0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:14.600
<v Speaker 3>good teams out there.

0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:16.679
<v Speaker 1>Chris, you talk baseball, and I'm curious what you might

0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:18.360
<v Speaker 1>think for the World Series.

0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:20.040
<v Speaker 3>This knows nothing about basic.

0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.760
<v Speaker 4>You know baseball. I mean, I don't did a deal

0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.440
<v Speaker 4>with I don't bother Derek with it, but I'm a

0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:32.439
<v Speaker 4>Yankees fan. We'll see it's they don't seem to be

0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.240
<v Speaker 4>able to perform in the playoffs for the last what

0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:36.600
<v Speaker 4>is it fifteen years now.

0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:41.360
<v Speaker 3>We'll discuss it on.

0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Hey, listen, guys, got about forty seconds left here really quickly.

0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:48.720
<v Speaker 1>In I don't know, a year from now, what's the

0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:50.160
<v Speaker 1>conversation around your company.

0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:52.400
<v Speaker 4>I think we'll start to look at stores. I mean,

0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.079
<v Speaker 4>I love stores. Not many people do in retail. We

0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:57.040
<v Speaker 4>have niney of them on Tucket and we're opening more.

0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:59.440
<v Speaker 4>I think it's really important for the male shoppers. So

0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:01.960
<v Speaker 4>I think we'll at that and we'll look at continued

0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.959
<v Speaker 4>growth in these different areas that we discuss, bookstores, golf,

0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:06.520
<v Speaker 4>e commerce. So it's very exciting.

0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:08.680
<v Speaker 1>Same thing for you, Derek in terms of greatness, wins

0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:09.640
<v Speaker 1>and a year from now, what are we going to

0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:10.160
<v Speaker 1>be talking about.

0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.040
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I think it's all awareness. You want people to

0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:13.720
<v Speaker 3>be aware. You want to walk around the streets and

0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.000
<v Speaker 3>see people wearing it. And I'm very confident in the

0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.599
<v Speaker 3>fact that someone buys our product and they wear it,

0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:20.200
<v Speaker 3>they'll be happy with it and they return.

0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.959
<v Speaker 1>As a customer and no pilling. You promise, Well, you

0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:29.079
<v Speaker 1>got to tell me. I got Derek, Derek Jeter, of course,

0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.400
<v Speaker 1>Chris Ricobono, you guys got me. FLLL mixed