1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 4 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: name is no the hout, my name is Ben. You 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: or you? This is stuff they don't want you to know. Uh. 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: Did you guys ever see the video or the film? 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: Saw any of that franchise? I did the first one. 9 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: I'm aware of it. I never I never saw it. Huh, 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: but I didn't. You didn't see saw? I didn't see saw. No, 11 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: I did not. I have not yet. Um. But the 12 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: antagonist in there is, if I recall correctly, he's always saying, 13 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: let's play a game, or would you like to play 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: a game or something like that. Is that correct? Well, 15 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: people have taken his idea and just ran with it. 16 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: Aside from the torture party. They liked everything but the torture. 17 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: And we'll start today's podcast with a basic concept, a 18 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: pretty neat one that all three of us here in 19 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: the podcast studio and you um out in whatever your 20 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: neck of the global woods is have probably encountered. And 21 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: that is gamification. This is a fun idea. I happen 22 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: to personally like it for certain things. This is when 23 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: you're making some activity. Let's say you're at the gym 24 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: and you're running or just running somewhere. Uh, and you've 25 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: got something in your arm that's tracking the your arm movements. 26 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: Here your steps. That's gamifying if you you know, I'm 27 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: trying to get a certain number of steps in a day, 28 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: or it's gonna give me some kind of reward if 29 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: I achieve that number, right, and it could be something 30 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: as um you know, as immaterial as just points are 31 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: on a pen all machines contests. Yeah, then you had 32 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: a high score, you know, or as you can app 33 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: to quit smoking. Now they might be financial to sites 34 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: will not to imagine if you taking to the next 35 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: level and then do a thing like zombie zombies run, 36 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: there's that app that takes the that step counting thing 37 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: and trying to keep up the pace and introduces zombies 38 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: into the equation where you're you know, running away from 39 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: virtual zombies. So that's I mean, you can take it 40 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: as far as you want to go. Let's not forget 41 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: how you know, Nantic sort of tricked a bunch of 42 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: nerds into you know, gamifying their exercise unbeknownst to them 43 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: with the Pokemon. You know, it's just those Pokemon. You're 44 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: gonna get some steps, then you gotta at those eggs, right, 45 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 1: gamifying your GPS. So, according to the University of Pennsylvania, 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: and here's a pretty good basic definition here, gamification is 47 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: the application of game elements and digital game design techniques 48 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: to non game problems, like we said, you know, exercise, 49 00:02:55,320 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: self improvement, financial management. There's pretty spelling data that gamification 50 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: ups individual engagement by which we mean like sustained participation 51 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: in several different areas. To sum it all up and 52 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: and our our pal and erstwhile guest host Jonathan Strickland 53 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: as as a pretty good episode about this on Tech Stuff, 54 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: which we recommend uh. To sum it up, gamification is 55 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: messing with your brain. It's it's affecting your reward centers. 56 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: Our brains don't necessarily differentiate between a useful reward and 57 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: the feeling of being rewarded, achievement unlocked exactly, achievement unlocked. 58 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: And so this provides several things. There's an emotional relevance 59 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: to learning, because it turns out our brains are better 60 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: remembering stories we remember things if we have if we 61 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: feel like they matter emotionally, if we can fit it 62 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: into kind of a narrative, then there's a sort of 63 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: a beginning, middle, and end. That end being your goal. 64 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: It's just much easier to uh, sort of internalize and 65 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: sort of become a character in the story, so to speak. Yeah, 66 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: and when you are able to kind of cram yourself 67 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: into this narrative and earn those achievements, get to that endpoint, 68 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: what it does is it triggers dopamine receptors and it 69 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: creates this reward system with positive associations with learning. So 70 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of a win win, right. Yeah, it feel 71 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: good and good things happen for you. Yeah, and that's 72 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: not the only chemical that will be involved. There only 73 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: all these other feel good chemicals, two very important ones 74 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 1: being you know, serotonin of course, and so endorphins. Well, 75 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: this is you know, this is why I have to 76 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: level up. I always have to level up, no matter 77 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: what time it is, it doesn't matter if it's three 78 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: in the morning. Got to get that next level because 79 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: it's important. And you probably of the three of us 80 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: have the most experience, probably the best gamer that well, 81 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: I don't want to offend do not best? Are you 82 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: what one might describe as a level grinder? Oh? I 83 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: am such a grinder for levels, for any kind of upgrades. 84 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 1: You know, if I've got a character, got to upgrade 85 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: it to the max. And there's been a lot of 86 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: research put into gamification of these of these various different aspects. 87 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: You know, how how do we make it um? How 88 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: do we make people feel like they are having fun 89 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: when they are accomplishing either something that benefits them or 90 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: benefits us, whoever they might be in this case. And 91 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: now for something completely different, well kind of China, So 92 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: China has uh. Let's talk about the relationship between the 93 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: government and the people. One of the biggest concerns historically 94 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: for any state level actor, which could be anything from 95 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, Normandy back in the day to UH to 96 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: ancient commit civilization right UM to Mesoamerican civilizations. One of 97 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: the primary challenges or things that the state infrastructure needs 98 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: to address is how to maintain stability. And stability ultimately 99 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: means the security, safety, and acquiescence of the people to 100 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: being governed. The relationship between the government and the people 101 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: in the country of China has had um. It's definitely 102 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: ups and downs, and it's no secret that the ruling 103 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: party of China works assiduously to maintain stability across a 104 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: very diverse population. China has a lot of the ingredients 105 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: that historically speaking, have been signs of a brewing revolution, 106 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: and we can walk through a few of them right now. Yeah, 107 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: not to mention that it is a massive population, it's 108 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: it's also a population of young, unmarried males largely, and 109 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: this is due to the gender ratio skew that we've seen, 110 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: because of the cultural practices, the one child policy, of 111 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: growing cynicism over corruption in the government, because more and 112 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: more people, as the Internet has come around, are finding 113 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: out about it. And you could say that about most countries. 114 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's accelerating inequality. Again, sounds familiar to a U. S. 115 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: Citizen sitting here in this podcast studio. Not to mention 116 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: all the different regions that are basically at odds with 117 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: one another, Tibet, Western provinces, the persecution of various ethnic minorities. 118 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: It is a hotbed of negativity in that country a 119 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: lot of times. Because yeah, it's definitely a hot bed 120 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: of tension. And just to put this in global perspective. 121 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: The estimated population of China and was one point three 122 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: nine billion. Yeah, that's uh, that's almost of the world's population, 123 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: So twenty of the world's peep will live here. Huge 124 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: divides too, between the people that live in the urban 125 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: areas and then work in various they're obviously financial type jobs, 126 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: also factory type jobs. With them, there are more rural 127 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: agrarian workers that live way way outside the city where 128 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: they just do not have access to the same infrastructure 129 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: as folks living in the city do. Right, And so 130 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: China's approach to this situation, to maintaining stability is multidimensional, 131 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: and that means they maintain a few things that we 132 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: were all familiar with, like police, Yeah, jail's prisons. You 133 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: gotta have a place to put the people who do 134 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: the wrong things. They also have paid informants who who 135 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: go around to get information about other people who do 136 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: bad things, which isn't surprising considering what a stronghold the 137 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: government has on pretty much any form of outside information. 138 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: And they have their you know, state sponsored news agency, 139 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: not in the same as the BBC, but much more 140 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: of a comes directly from the government, you know, always 141 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: entirely accurate, let's say, right, and compensation for deaths attracting 142 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: these dissident groups, and a dissident being, like as an 143 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: old pointed out, can be widely defined, uh, informal security 144 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: forces or goons. This is constantly occurring, and the government 145 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: pours a lot of scratch into this. Uh. Just in 146 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: two thousand and eleven, for instance, the expense on national 147 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: defense was six hundred and one point one five six 148 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: billion one or, for people who want a dollar for perspective, 149 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: ninety point six billion US dollars. That's the claimed number. 150 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: And I think that sounds kind of inflationary. But in contrast, 151 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: the expense on stability maintenance is six hundred and twenty 152 00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: four point four to one billion, which means that this 153 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 1: government is spending more on in at least two thousand eleven, 154 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: spending more on internal stability than on external stuff force projection. 155 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: And this is all I know. It sounds billifying, but 156 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: almost every country has some sort of thing like this. 157 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: You know, countries happily jails paid informants. This is this 158 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: is just constantly happening. And it's not all um negative 159 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: or fear of consequence type stuff too. There are positive 160 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: things carrots rather than sticks. Well, yeah, you can rally 161 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: your entire population, well most of your population against some 162 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: shared threat that we all see existentially or for real, 163 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: let's see an historically antagonistic country one nearby like Japan 164 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: that China is in conflict with a lot of the time. Um, 165 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: they can also uh provide propaganda to rally the population 166 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: for China's historic regional importance globe ascendency. So the enforcing 167 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: the idea like we are all one entity, We're all 168 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: part of this one collective thing. There's no need for 169 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: us to try to break that or dissent or go 170 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: into factions. And perhaps one of the final carrots rather 171 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: than sticks is the the assurance of widespread economic improvement, 172 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: continual economic growth. Essentially the argument this government is worth 173 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 1: keeping around, you know, even if I'm not particularly happy 174 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: about one thing or another, because it is good for 175 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: me financially. But in addition to consistently using these long 176 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: established methods, which are again common throughout the world, China 177 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: is not the bad guy here. China has embraced cutting 178 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: edge technologies. Yeah, they're they're using vast internal surveillance online, 179 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: like looking at all of the Internet activity in the 180 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: country that they can possibly see looking at or listening 181 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: to telephone calls using the metadata a lot of the 182 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: same things that again we do in the US, just 183 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: because that's my personal frame of reference. Um. They're also 184 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: restricting access to information via this thing called the Great Firewall. 185 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: It's referred to as the Great Firewall. It's the restriction 186 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: of of Google search terms. Right, anything that you search online, 187 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: you're not going to find certain things. Tenament Square massacre 188 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: comes into. Well, there's there's another thing that's interesting. As 189 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: a side note. One of my old professors I used 190 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: to love talking about this where I think we've mentioned 191 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: the Great Firewall in this show before, but every so often, 192 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: if you're using the Internet without a proxy or something 193 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: in the country, then the Internet police will pop up, 194 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: not that you're doing anything wrong, just remind you that 195 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: they're here for your safety, you know, so that you 196 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: just hit a malicious website. And I think it was 197 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: always interesting to my professor was that their eyes were blue. 198 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: Oh why he brought that up? Because it is like 199 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: a fun little animated avatar like Clippy. It kind of is. 200 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's animated. It might be now 201 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: at this point but as Steve Jobs like to say, 202 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: there's one more thing. But first a word from responsible 203 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: Year's where it gets crazy. Enter sesame credit. So the 204 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: Chinese government has decided to take all of these things 205 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: into account, how how important internal stability is within their country, 206 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: and they've partnered with private industry to gamify essentially obedience 207 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: among its citizens for for the state. So this could 208 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: be possibly a very dangerous enterprise. It's it's a social 209 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: credit system, um, I guess, kind of like a credit score, 210 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: but critics are already alleging that it's affiliated more so 211 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: with obedience than with pocketbooks. It's called sesame credit. Yeah. 212 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: It's being constructed for the Chinese government by an outfit 213 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: called ant Financial Services Group, which is associated with Ali Baba. 214 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: And if you haven't heard of Ali Baba, you almost certainly, um, 215 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: you almost certainly will soon. It is the world's largest 216 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: retailer as of April of It's very much like Amazon 217 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: to me in the way I've fewed it. Yeah, and 218 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: anti financial. This is a bit dry, but this is 219 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: very important for you to know, especially if you plan 220 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: on living in this country in the next few years. 221 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: And financial operates what's called the alie pay payment platform. 222 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: So ali Pay is a third party platform and it 223 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: doesn't charge transaction fees. It's partnered master Card, Visa, all 224 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: all the big hitters financially in Alipa handled almost half 225 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: of the online traffic online payment market of China. That's 226 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: half of of the world's population, right, at least the 227 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: Internet active right. And so this means that Sesame Credit 228 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: is able to pull data from these online purchases or transactions. 229 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: It can go to Aunt Financial and then it can 230 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: go into Sesame Credit. They can the the concerns here 231 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: are pretty much already apparent, but we do have you know, 232 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: we do have word from the official spokespersons or spoke 233 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: people for for Sesame Credit who say, essentially what this 234 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: does is only associated with that that it will not 235 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: pull from social media platforms, and we have a quote 236 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: about that too. So, according to spokesperson Miran a Check, 237 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: Sesame Credit tracks quote, financial and consumption activities of users, 238 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: but materials published on social media platforms do not affect 239 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: our users personal Sesame Credit score. So essentially we'll we'll 240 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: see every we'll see every time that Ben buys the 241 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: next um I don't know, gallon of blood or whatever. 242 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: But but we won't track how many pictures he posts 243 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: of him with track. Right. The thing is, opponents remain 244 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: skeptical of this claim. And here's why it's dangerous. Do 245 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: you guys want to do a hypothetical thing. Oh, that's 246 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: my favorite thing to do. They scare me. Well, yeah, 247 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: because you're the example of this one. Okay, let's say 248 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: let's say that you are. Let's let's give him a 249 00:16:55,040 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: different name. Can I be dron If it please you it, well, 250 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: please green lighting it. Then I say you are Drogan officially. 251 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 1: So Drogen is a pretty stand up citizen. Right, you're 252 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: not politically involved. I mean you could describe yourself pretty easily. Yeah, 253 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: I'm not really politically involved. You guys know that I 254 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: don't like to stick my nose in those kind of 255 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: places because I feel like it's not my place. Um. 256 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: I just you know, I'll go out to eat, grab 257 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: a drink with friends, but not you know, not too 258 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: often because I like to save money. Um, I don't know. 259 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: I buy all the things that I that I do 260 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: for my hobbies, like I like to I'm a skater. 261 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: You guys know that I love to skate. I like 262 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: to run and hike. So I buy little things like that. 263 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: I've had a solid job for a while. I'm married, 264 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: I've got a kid on the way. You know, Um, 265 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: you should see you should see my ali bab account. 266 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: I've got so much baby stuff on there. Uh, it's 267 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: pretty insane. I'm a little worried about that. But but 268 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: it's good. I'm a good citizen, right. But let's say, 269 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: says to me. Credit does take social media in the account. 270 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: If that's the case, then when Drogan posts a link 271 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: to a censored news site, it could affect his sesame 272 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: credit score. Furthermore, you needed more dangerously. It may not 273 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: matter how good Dan is depending on the people he's 274 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: friends with and social media, But the activities of your 275 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: friends on social media can have an impact on your 276 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: score as well. So, um, your score can actually dip 277 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: below a certain threshold. And when that happens, your life 278 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: can get significantly more difficult. What do you mean, Maybe 279 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: the Internet slows down and get throttled a little bit. 280 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: Uh might be tougher to get alone, it might be 281 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: harder to start a small business that you wanted to do. 282 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: That's gonna be a problem. And then your application to 283 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: various government agencies might get denied really so, so going 284 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: through bureaucracy gets more difficult, which way, as we know, 285 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: I mean, in a country of that size, is already 286 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 1: probably not an easy task. So things like moving, applying 287 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: for travel visas, so on. You know, that means that 288 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: there is a system that relies on social pressure, um 289 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: but is introducing these incentives to the public to self 290 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: monitor as people want to take advantage of having this 291 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: good sesame credit score and then avoid the consequences of 292 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: having a crappy one. So maybe, um, maybe Drogen drog 293 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 1: In takes a hit to his sesame credit score and 294 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: his wife comes in and says, what happened because she 295 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: can see my sessame sesame credit score, I can see hers. 296 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: Maybe we have a joint credit score sesame credit score knows, 297 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: but it is for sure that your activity with the 298 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: person you probably spend the most time with would meet 299 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: noted and affect it. And speak of notes, it is 300 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: important to note that at this point Sesame credit has 301 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: not um not rolled out any penalties for low score, 302 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: and official sources state it will not include penalties for 303 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: low score. And right at this point, let's let's just 304 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: stop and like, what what do you guys think of this? 305 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: This this idea of UM, this idea of of a 306 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: state rate rated agency. It feels like something out of 307 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: like NUR to me, you know, it really feels like 308 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that on the surface might feel fun. 309 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: But the deeper you get into it, the more you 310 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: realize that you're kind of being duped into allowing the 311 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: government to have even more control over your life than 312 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: they already do. So what if, for instance, what if, 313 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: for instance, Drogan wants to start a small business and 314 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: he knows that if he gets his number up to 315 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: a certain threshold, he will be able to get alone 316 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: much easier, much more easily. So he reports one of 317 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: his neighbors for something thing which may be true maybe not, 318 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: and then that participation makes him more of a model citizen, 319 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: more of a trustworthy citizen, and then boom, his score 320 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: goes up with with the possibility is there. The spokespeople 321 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: for Sesame Credit have said explicitly that they're not checking 322 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 1: social media and that this is an opt in system, 323 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: but it is possible to incentivize essentially UM a place 324 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: where people, instead of reacting out of fear, are reacting 325 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 1: because they see themselves bettering themselves. They see it as 326 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: bettering themselves. I know this might sound sort of paranoid 327 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: on our parts, and this this thing, this news has 328 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: been around for a few years. But there's one other 329 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 1: there's one other fact that really gives some sand to 330 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: our concerns here, and we'll get to it right after 331 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor and we're back. Here is 332 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: the troubling fact about sesame credit that gives a little 333 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: more credence, I think to the speculation around the world 334 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: about it. It's opt in for now, at least until 335 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: when it becomes mandatory for every citizen of the country. Yeah, 336 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: so I'm trying to imagine it happening in the United States. Um, 337 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: the let's say the federal government creates their version of 338 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: sesame credit. It's called okay, okay, no, no, But I'm 339 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: being serious, sure something something as well, something more transparent, 340 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 1: because there's there are also pretty compelling arguments that the 341 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: alphabet agencies take credit score and social connections on face 342 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: spooke into account. You know, they do a full linked 343 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: in on that sucker, and and and I'm trying to 344 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: imagine opting into something like that and going, Yes, I 345 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: want to see how good of a citizen I am, 346 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: and I want to be a better citizen and do 347 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: all the right things for that. I feel like this country. 348 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: This is huge generalization, but I feel like the individuals 349 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 1: in this country believe in individualism so much that that 350 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: may not be attractive. I don't know, and that's complete 351 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: speculation and from my own personal view. But on the 352 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: flip side of that, though not too generally over generalized, 353 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: but it does feel like that the culture in China 354 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: has much more of a focus on collectivism versus individualism. 355 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: So I could see how something like this would take 356 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: off without having to be mandatory. Yeah, and there's also 357 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: one party, right, So in the US, as the federal 358 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: government changes hands from one party to the net to 359 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: the next, how does that change from I like these 360 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: say changes hands. Yeah, that's the same hand going into 361 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 1: a different puppet. Right, But that's a that's a good point. Um, 362 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, these things happen by degree. Right. Facebook didn't 363 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: come out and say, let us do these horrific things 364 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: to you or to your concept of privacy. They just said, hey, 365 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: you can you can hang out with your friends from 366 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: college online, create artificial scarcity, artificial um sense of exclusivity. 367 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: So they're very they're very smart things happening here because one, 368 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: it's opt in, which means the original group will be 369 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: self selecting people who want to and want to have 370 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: assessament credit score, want it to be high. I want 371 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: people to know about it, and perhaps me even compete 372 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: to achieve a better score. And then if those people 373 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: are seeing, you know, doing quote unquote better in life 374 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: and society, then having a credit score assessment credit score 375 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: will you know, probably become are desirable. And who's to 376 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: say that the government doesn't take one of these cases 377 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: and turn it into like a poster kind of short 378 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: ration where they're like, hey, look at this family here. 379 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: They went full bore on the sesame credit you know 380 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: model they got yeah, and now they're thriving. Don't you 381 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: want to be like this family? I mean, I just 382 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. And how will it affect how it 383 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: will affect younger people who are in the dating phase 384 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: of life, looking for a looking for some kind of spouse, 385 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: whether that's you know, a husband or a wife. And 386 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: then they also said they also said, according to a 387 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: BBC article, that the company does not hide that it 388 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: judges the types of products shoppers by online. So someone 389 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: who plays video games for ten hours a day would 390 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: be considered idle. Someone who frequently buys diapers would be 391 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: considered probably a parent who was on balance more likely 392 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: to have a sense of responsibility That comes from li 393 00:25:53,119 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: Ying Yong Sesamese, direct technology director. Yeah, and this this 394 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 1: idea that it's so much more granular with those though, 395 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, I mean, like these 396 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: categories that we're talking about now are very broad. But 397 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: as we know, with the way even our data is used, 398 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: um and mind. Oh yeah, I think of the possibilities 399 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: of all of the specifics you can find out about 400 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: somebody with unfettered access to their feed that they're streamed 401 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 1: everything that they're putting online. Yeah, which diapers did they 402 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: buy and at what time exactly. Privacy is not endangered. 403 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: Privacy is extinct already for the vast um the vast 404 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: majority of people who live in developing or develops nations. Privacy, 405 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: I submit you as one of the new currencies of 406 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: the very well to do right. The people you don't 407 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,719 Speaker 1: see in pictures, the people who are in name and 408 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: who's who so and so, and very soon water will 409 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: be one of those things. I hope not. I hope 410 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: water will be on all the time. You know, we're 411 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: is it sustainable? That's a good question to mean before 412 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: a different day. It makes me think of what's going 413 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: on now with the water and Rio de Janeiro secrept 414 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,360 Speaker 1: for the Olympics, right, and watch out for dead bodies floating. 415 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: So this, this brings us to something else, like the technology. 416 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: Technology is inherently disruptive, right, there's this whole um. If 417 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: there was a pantheon for the circle of society, then 418 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: technology would receiva the destroyer because it fundamentally changes roles 419 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: of people, institutions, and fundamentally changes timelines. In this case, 420 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: we're seeing technology change the role of monitoring. If it's 421 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 1: full potential, again they say Sesame Credit says that it's 422 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: just to do this will be mandatory later, but it's 423 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: full potential is crystal clear. It's paving the way for 424 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: the people of a country to become the police of 425 00:27:54,960 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 1: a country. Yeah. Yeah, it could subvert the old paradigm 426 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: of state stability through fear of consequence, to a new 427 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: paradigm of desire for reward. And you know that the 428 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: other thing is like, is that necessarily bad if people 429 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: are there just to follow laws? Right, if people have 430 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: social pressure, that's saying hey, don't um you know, hey, 431 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: hey stop hey, Druggon's brother in law, stop stealing all 432 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: those fiats, Right, you're messing up my sesame credit score. 433 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 1: And I'd really like who knows my kid to get 434 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: into a good school? Like when when other when we 435 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: hold other people hostage for things, or other people hold 436 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: us hostage for things, that becomes a powerful and uh 437 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: probably more cost effective means of controlling people. It's it. 438 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: I think the concern is that it's bad if there's 439 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: a it's bad if there's a bad government. Right that 440 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,719 Speaker 1: says it says we're in turning everybody of you know, 441 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: Korean descent, or we're we're in turning everybody in Tibet, 442 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: which probably would never ever happen, yeah, or just you know, 443 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: allowing any kind of abuses, just outright allowing any kind 444 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: of abuse in any country that would allow that that 445 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: had this kind of system on, it would be dangerous. 446 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: It reminds me of a David Egger's book called The 447 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: Circle that I've mentioned before. Um, there is a version 448 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: of the Internet that exists in this novel, where you 449 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: can no longer be anonymous on the Internet anymore, and 450 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,479 Speaker 1: that in and of itself creates this democratization of the 451 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: Internet where you know, if you're not willing to stand 452 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: behind your trolling and you know, have your name and 453 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: I D number visible to everyone, then you're not gonna 454 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: do it, right. So it eliminates a lot of the 455 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: negative aspects of the Internet. But it also like you 456 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: are tied to this account for life, you know, and 457 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: I could just see an escalation of this being like 458 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: this is your social currency, this is your identification. Everything, 459 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: your record, your permanent record, a thing that happens in 460 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: your life is stored in this account, and it's all 461 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: kind of tied to information technology. So it follows you 462 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: around and you can never escape it short of like wiping, 463 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: you know, doing like a Mr. Robot style hack, you know, 464 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: and just totally annihilating the record. It's a digital shadow 465 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: and it follows you. Yeah, when you combine that technology 466 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: with surveillance technology, you get something that's extremely close to 467 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: a digital version of version of our concept of God 468 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: that knows everything you've done, or Santa Claus maybe he 469 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: knows everything that you're doing when you're naughty and when 470 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: you're nice, see you when you're sleeping. It's a creed. Yeah, 471 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: I mean really that's I mean that these are these 472 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: are excellent points. They call it god view with Uber. 473 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: You know, they have like a view where they can 474 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: see everybody that's on the grid and Uber they call 475 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: at god view. And that's like a that's a tech 476 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: term for any kind of platform that has users where 477 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: you can view everyone where they are geo raphidally at 478 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: any time. Take a thing like this where not only 479 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: maybe Spotify has a gazillion users or whatever, but this 480 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: is literally everyone. So there could also be let's we 481 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: talked about some of the cons. I wanted to talk 482 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: about some pros, just to give at least a fair 483 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: things so it's not a complete condemnation. One of the pros, 484 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: for instance, could be the ability to see a problem 485 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: brewing before it does. And I don't mean necessarily like 486 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: a dissent, but to see the thing it's doing is 487 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: it's it's giving a wider view, it's giving that Uber 488 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: god mode, right, but is it explaining why something happens 489 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: if people are maybe there are people who are purchasing 490 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: less of some at some frequency, right, and they're concentrated 491 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: in this one region in this area. Well, maybe they're 492 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: purchasing less stuff overall and that drops their SESAME credit score. 493 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: But the reason they're doing that is because the factory 494 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: in the area that everybody worked at closed or is 495 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: closing and has been laying off workers. And this is 496 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: something maybe that the larger scale government would not have 497 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: been aware of in enough time to help, right, Or 498 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: maybe there's a maybe there's something that changes with disaster. 499 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: The thing is, the world is so dynamic and it's 500 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: difficult to imagine a system nimble enough to accurately represent 501 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: that without you know, breaking millions of eggs to make 502 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: an omelet. That maybe an abomination. And the issue with this, 503 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: in my mind is that we must always be cautious 504 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: of hard cells. This is entirely my opinion. But usually 505 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: when someone has an act now thing and say here, 506 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: do this, you have twenty four hours, you do this, 507 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: you have familiar three minutes. And again, one worrying thing 508 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: about this is that it is a hard sell. It 509 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: is inevitable. Currently it is an opt in, but it 510 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: is mandatory within the near very near future. To two 511 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: thousand twenty may sound or like a long way away 512 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: or look like that on paper, but it's I mean, 513 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: much much faster than you might feel. I could have 514 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: sworn the stock market just crashed a little while ago, 515 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: but that was almost ten years ago. As William Faulkner said, 516 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: the past isn't even over right, I'm paraphrasing, But with 517 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: this it may be inevitable. Another question, you know, is 518 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: the US already doing this? Is the European Union already 519 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: doing something like this but much less transparent? And if so, 520 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: should we applaud a country that is at least putting 521 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: out of beta. Yeah, having a modicum of transparency? And 522 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: what does this What does this lead to in the future? 523 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: Does this mean that will be the end of what 524 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: exists is free speech in this country? Does this mean 525 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: that free speech in the country in which we reside 526 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: is already you know, monitored? Of course, granted, free speech 527 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 1: never was meant to mean speech without consequence, and we've 528 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 1: always been monitoreds since we've been able to communicate online. Yeah, 529 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: that's that's true as well. So we would like to 530 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on this. What what do you think 531 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 1: is this is this actually going to happen is Sesame credit. 532 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: What is Sesame credits credit score here? Is it trustworthy 533 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: enough that it will not for ideological or dare we 534 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: say moral reasons begin to also vacuum in social media data? 535 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,760 Speaker 1: Will it be will it be just a motivating factor 536 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: for people to work out more and like gamify the 537 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: way that smaller, smaller scale apps have done. Where is 538 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: it something different? Is it when it becomes mandatory? In? 539 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: What will it? My question is what will it be in? 540 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:11,320 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? What will it be in? 541 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: You know? I just thought about ben before we get 542 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: to how to send your questions for that stuff? Is 543 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: that it doesn't even really matter if Sesame Credit itself 544 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: is tracking all that stuff and putting it together, because 545 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: some third party can just take the data which exists, 546 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: especially if they're you know, Sesame Credits selling it like 547 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: many other social media companies do, selling that data they 548 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: collect to third parties. You can just combine it all 549 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,720 Speaker 1: and then have another company that's essentially like a social 550 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: blade or something that's just collating all the data. Ultimately, 551 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 1: it may not matter if somewhat even if they say okay, mandatory. 552 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: That's kind of crazy. We understand how that would make 553 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 1: us seem disingenuous or less trustworthy than we actually are. 554 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: It will always be opt in right, the same way 555 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: that face Book is. But there's a problem of saturation 556 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: that occurs because if you have never signed up for 557 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: Facebook and all of your friends have and they have 558 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: sent you an email, right, then Facebook knows there's someone 559 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: who has your email address. They may not know as 560 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 1: much about you as they want to, but they probably 561 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: already know more than you wish. You may have heard 562 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: stories before people who found that there was a dummy 563 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: Facebook account a digital parking space waiting for them and 564 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,879 Speaker 1: they never logged in. This could be the same kind 565 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: of problem after a certain threshold, if there are enough 566 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: people that are in this kind of situation, then there 567 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: will be connections that are unintentional. Right, And that is 568 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: not a conspiracy theory. That is a real thing that 569 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,280 Speaker 1: can happen with any sort of social network, right, especially 570 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 1: if the people in the social network interact in person, 571 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: go places with their cell phones, right, picks in different 572 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: places while you were at the party with three different 573 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 1: friends who are unconnected somehow, but they all end up, 574 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: you know, play Pokemon Go or whatever the equivalent of 575 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: a GPS game is with facial recognition as part of 576 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: the thing. You know, then this this is all happening live. 577 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,720 Speaker 1: This is a live fire, This is this is uh 578 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,839 Speaker 1: you guys know him hesitant to cover ongoing events. This 579 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: is just an upcoming thing. So there's a huge disclaimer 580 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,879 Speaker 1: like it may not who knows it may it may 581 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: not happen. It may just just collapse on itself and 582 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 1: become vapor wearer. I think it's interesting that you refer 583 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: to it as a beta test, because I mean, that's 584 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 1: exactly what it is. But it's a very unusual beta 585 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: test for sure. So what do you think, folks? Do 586 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: you think this is on balance a good thing a 587 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 1: bad thing? As one of our coworkers, as Scott Benjamin Is, 588 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: want to say, are you for it or again it 589 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,919 Speaker 1: he does it and uh we we'd like to hear 590 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: your opinion and why and if you if you feel 591 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 1: like sesame credit has been vilified because of the potential 592 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 1: for misuse. Uh we, we'd like to hear a good 593 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,879 Speaker 1: defense of this. You know it would it would make 594 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: not just us, but many of our listeners and many 595 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: of the other folks around the world ecstatic to know 596 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,280 Speaker 1: that this was all alarmism and panic. We're not saying 597 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: it's happening now, we're saying that it's possible, and we 598 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: may well be being a little bit alarmist and panicky 599 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: to be fair. Also, I don't know, I mean, I 600 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 1: just this is the kind of thing that's sort of 601 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,759 Speaker 1: like catnip, you know, for getting the brain kind of 602 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: twirling around, like what is the worst case scenario, What 603 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: is the most nefarious way this potentially well meaning program 604 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: could just spiral out of control into the depths of 605 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: black mirror Farenheit fifty one territory. It is that kind 606 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,839 Speaker 1: of thing to me, But doesn't necessarily mean it has 607 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: to go there, right, Yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean it 608 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:08,319 Speaker 1: has to go there. I mean they're like if I was, 609 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 1: I was gonna say the worst analogies, like just because 610 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: a car hits a poll and burst into flame doesn't 611 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 1: mean that people are going to be injured if they're 612 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: in it. It means they probably will be and chances 613 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: are they're going to be incinerated. You know, that's a 614 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 1: very that's a very unfair comparison for me to make. 615 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: I'm not implyined that this is a car accident, but 616 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,240 Speaker 1: it is interesting. It does show, you know, it shows 617 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:36,720 Speaker 1: this increasingly um increasingly profound role the technology is playing here. Uh, 618 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:38,839 Speaker 1: so we would like to hear from you. Let us 619 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 1: know what you think. You can find us on Facebook 620 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 1: and Twitter because we do have a Facebook page and 621 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: it probably knows way too much about what kind of 622 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,319 Speaker 1: pizza the three of us like. You can find us 623 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: there we are conspiracy stuff, and also find us on 624 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: uh Instagram where we are conspiracy Stuff show where you 625 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 1: can see my brand new Space Camp T shirt sent 626 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,320 Speaker 1: to us by listener Paula H. Because she took pity 627 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: on me because I had never been to Space Camp. 628 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: It had been a dream of mine ever since I 629 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: was a little Nickelodeon loving child watching Double Dare and 630 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: seeing that as the grand prize, the end all be 631 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,359 Speaker 1: all of my childhood dreams dashed while she put them 632 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 1: back together, picked up the pieces, healed my child like soul. 633 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: And thank you appreciate that, gene. That was a genuine 634 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: joy and uh appreciation that you saw there on this 635 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: this bearded face. So thank you, Paula H. Yeah, they 636 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: and you know what the NAT and I owe you 637 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: a thank you for that as well, because, uh Knowl's 638 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: enthusiasm was palpable everybody's day. I was out, I was 639 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: out of the office somewhere and you texted me, and 640 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: so I just like immediately poohed back into that circle 641 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: to see the shirt. That again, listeners are the most 642 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,359 Speaker 1: important part of our show, and every time we say that, 643 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: we like to demonstrate that with a little thing we 644 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: call shot at Corners. Our first shoutout today goes to 645 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: Jonathan West, who wrote to us on Twitter. He let 646 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: us know about the Panama Papers movie that's coming to Netflix. 647 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 1: I'm excited about that. That was a great episode in 648 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 1: my opinion. Guys don't mean to tute our own horn, 649 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,479 Speaker 1: but I enjoyed that episode because give a little horn too. Well. 650 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,799 Speaker 1: It gave a real window into a world that we 651 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,240 Speaker 1: kind of knew was there. We did know what was happening, 652 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: but we got to see the details. Um, let's see 653 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,840 Speaker 1: it's it's written by It's a book that was written 654 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: by investigative journalist Frederick ober Meyer and Bastion ober Meyer. 655 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,759 Speaker 1: Interesting similar last names there, um, but yeah, thank you 656 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: Jonathan West. We're definitely going to be checking that out 657 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,879 Speaker 1: next We have went from rick Comstock via Facebook. Are 658 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: manufacturers paint robots? Um quote? My robots have no AI, 659 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,360 Speaker 1: which I believe is a good thing. But they can see. 660 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: They can see colors, and they can see when something 661 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: is near to them and how close someone is to them. 662 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: I find my job extremely interesting watching the advancements that 663 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: happened at my company. But I'm also glad they are 664 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: taught by a teach pendent. A teach pendent, I don't 665 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: know this term, and also that they are creating a 666 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 1: lot of jobs in the field. Uh, teach pendents are 667 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: really interesting. I had to look them up. It's how 668 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: you teach a robot to do things right. So inputs, 669 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,359 Speaker 1: you give robots certain inputs kind of if ends, those 670 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:40,319 Speaker 1: kind of things, and it learns by what you what 671 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 1: you tell it. That's what's Yeah, it's not learning. Is 672 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: that how they teach those robots on the radio how 673 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,839 Speaker 1: to wrap? Yep, you are so proud of that joke 674 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: makes me happy, But I probably got that wrong about 675 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,719 Speaker 1: teach pendance right to us, teach us about teach pendants. Yes, 676 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: and our next shout out comes from KLi Lipkey, who says, 677 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,839 Speaker 1: I just found your podcast while on a four hour 678 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: road trip. Now I listen at work. I've been really 679 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: disappointed that you don't have an episode on Benghazi. Would 680 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 1: love to hear one on that would be the part 681 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 1: of the attack on the US uh US and facilities 682 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: there the embassy. Yeah, I don't know that that could 683 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: be a rough one, but we can at least look 684 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:30,479 Speaker 1: into it see if there's something worth our time. Sure, 685 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: what do you know about it? What did Hilldog know 686 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,800 Speaker 1: about it? What did yes? The okay, yes, the allegations 687 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 1: of the emails right that we're released by wicked leaks 688 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:46,840 Speaker 1: regarding uh, the Hillary Clinton's campaign or Hillary Clinton's activities 689 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 1: while serving as Secretary of State under the Obama administration. Yeah, 690 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 1: response times too when everything was going down. There's a 691 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,560 Speaker 1: lot of stuff there. It's been this whole thing seems 692 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: have been taken up by the right so of the U. S. 693 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 1: Government as like an attack. So, I don't know, it 694 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,600 Speaker 1: might be a little too sensitive, right yet. You know, 695 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,959 Speaker 1: I have not been as educated on that one as 696 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: I should be. So I'll look into that and learn more, 697 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: and uh, who knows what we'll find if we dig 698 00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: deep enough. Thank you so much for writing CALLI that 699 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:28,839 Speaker 1: concludes ours, But that does not conclude this stuff they 700 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. I mean in this episode. Yes, 701 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,759 Speaker 1: this is clearly the end of the episode. You can 702 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,799 Speaker 1: check out you can check out some other stuff we've 703 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,320 Speaker 1: done about international relations, about um disruptive rules of technology 704 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,840 Speaker 1: by visiting our website. Stuff they don't want you to 705 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: know dot com. But wait, you might be saying, no, Ben, 706 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,560 Speaker 1: I've got something that that I want to write two 707 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,760 Speaker 1: guys with in detail. It's really good idea my fellow 708 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: listeners would like to hear. Or it's a really good 709 00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:00,319 Speaker 1: point about sesame credit, or I've got some it's a 710 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: really good recipe for sesame chicken. Yeah, maybe it's a 711 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: really good um. Maybe it's a really good haiku about sesame, 712 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,920 Speaker 1: or or like a limerick. Or maybe it's just your 713 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: Facebook logging information. No, please don't do that. So where 714 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 1: should they send this? They should send this to conspiracy 715 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works dot com