WEBVTT - Catacombs of Rome

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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<v Speaker 1>of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly

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<v Speaker 1>Frye and I'm Crazy V Wilson. It's time for some

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<v Speaker 1>catacombs talk. Yeah, listen. This is a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>wish fulfillment for me because I have not been to

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<v Speaker 1>the catacombs in Rome, but I sure want to. It

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<v Speaker 1>just has not ever happened when I've been there. Now

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<v Speaker 1>it's a good excuse to go back. It's on my

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<v Speaker 1>list for any future visits. But the story of the

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<v Speaker 1>Roman Catacombs is one that's always been really interesting to

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<v Speaker 1>me because it is so very different from the story

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<v Speaker 1>we've told on the show before about the catacombs of Paris.

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<v Speaker 1>Romes are much older, they were created for very different reasons.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're going to talk about them today. I want

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<v Speaker 1>to give you a heads up if you are a

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<v Speaker 1>person that knows about them and loves them. We're not

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<v Speaker 1>getting into the art. There's a lot of cool art

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<v Speaker 1>in the Roman Catacombs that could be its own whole

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<v Speaker 1>party train, and I would love for it to be.

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<v Speaker 1>But today we're really talking about like more of the

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<v Speaker 1>mechanics of how these came to be, why they came

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<v Speaker 1>to be, et cetera. We're going to talk about the

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<v Speaker 1>circumstances that led to their creation, their rediscovery after centuries

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<v Speaker 1>of abandonment, and their status today. A description of the

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<v Speaker 1>Roman Catacombs, published in eighteen fifty seven opens this way quote.

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<v Speaker 1>The Roman Catacombs may be briefly described as labyrinths of

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<v Speaker 1>subterranean galleries, crossing one another in every direction, and here

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<v Speaker 1>and there opening into chambers more or less lofty and spacious,

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<v Speaker 1>the whole hewn with the most exacting regularity out of

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<v Speaker 1>the living rock, whose entire walls present a series of

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<v Speaker 1>narrow shelves, one above the other, evidently excavated for the

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<v Speaker 1>purpose of receiving the bodies of the dead, and afterward

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<v Speaker 1>closed with facings of tile or marble, on which there

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<v Speaker 1>were often inscribed the names of the persons buried within.

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<v Speaker 1>So from that passage already some key differences between the

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<v Speaker 1>catacombs of Rome and those of Paris, which we've talked

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<v Speaker 1>about on the show. Before we reared that episode, I

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<v Speaker 1>think in October of twenty twenty three, the Parisian Catacombs

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<v Speaker 1>were a solution to a public health crisis that was

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<v Speaker 1>caused by the city's cemeteries being woefully overfilled was causing

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<v Speaker 1>a number of problems. So the dead were moved into

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<v Speaker 1>limestone quarries under the outskirts of the city, turning those

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<v Speaker 1>quarries into catacombs. This happened in the eighteenth century, but

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<v Speaker 1>Rome was creating catacombs well before that, all the way

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<v Speaker 1>back to the first century.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that writing that.

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<v Speaker 1>Tracy just mentioned is uh, it's from the nineteenth century,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's like during a time when people were getting

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<v Speaker 1>really excited about the Roman catacombs. Again, the person that

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<v Speaker 1>wrote that would end up working with one of the

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<v Speaker 1>people that we are going to talk about late in

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<v Speaker 1>the episode. So the catacombs are believed to have been

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<v Speaker 1>created in the first or second century as a way

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<v Speaker 1>for people to bury their dead according to a custom

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<v Speaker 1>that was not allowed within the city of Rome. Rome

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<v Speaker 1>at this time was pagan. The standard practice was to

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<v Speaker 1>cremate the dead. We'll talk a little bit about shifting

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<v Speaker 1>trends in how the dead were treated, but cremation was

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<v Speaker 1>not a practice that was part of Jewish and Christian traditions.

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<v Speaker 1>Burial of the dead in the city of Rome was

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<v Speaker 1>forbidden by law at the time we'll talk more about

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<v Speaker 1>that law. This is the very simple version to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of get us into the intro. But to really look

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<v Speaker 1>at the context of the Catacombs, we have to talk

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit about Jewish and Christian religion in Rome

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<v Speaker 1>and how people who identified as Jewish or Christian were

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<v Speaker 1>treated and how they lived alongside other Romans. So the

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<v Speaker 1>early centuries of Rome's Jewish population, which of course that

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<v Speaker 1>goes back to before the development of Christianity, those early

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<v Speaker 1>centuries are complicated. They feature cycles of conflict and relative peace.

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<v Speaker 1>There are accounts of Jewish people living in Rome as

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<v Speaker 1>far back as the second century BCE. Rome expelled its

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<v Speaker 1>Jewish population on several occasions, including in one thirty nine

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<v Speaker 1>BCE amid accusations that they were attempting to convert Romans,

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<v Speaker 1>then again in nineteen CE for an assortment of accusations

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<v Speaker 1>ranging from fraud to disorderly conduct, and then in the

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<v Speaker 1>year forty nine when Claudius banished the Jewish population. That

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<v Speaker 1>last one is described in the works of Suetonius as

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<v Speaker 1>Claudius expelling them quote as the Jews were making constant

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<v Speaker 1>disturbances at the instigation of Christus whether or not Christus

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<v Speaker 1>was Gaesus Christ does a matter that biblical scholars continue

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<v Speaker 1>to examine, and that's way outside the scope of this episode.

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<v Speaker 1>But after each of these expulsions, there was always a

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<v Speaker 1>reversal of the policy, and often that was quite soon

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<v Speaker 1>after it had been issued. During the reigns of Julius

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<v Speaker 1>Caesar and Augustus, so in the time from the middle

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<v Speaker 1>of the first century BCE to the early first century CE,

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<v Speaker 1>there was legislation put in place that protected the practice

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<v Speaker 1>of the Jewish religion. So this was a period of

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<v Speaker 1>just constantly shifting sands of at least somewhat acceptance and

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<v Speaker 1>expulsion for Rome's Jewish population. Another text that gives us

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<v Speaker 1>insight into the Jewish population of Rome in the first

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<v Speaker 1>century is the account of Josephus, who was born in

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<v Speaker 1>Jerusalem in thirty six or thirty seven CE and wrote

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<v Speaker 1>autobiographical accounts of his life, which include the story of

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<v Speaker 1>the Jewish revolt against Roman occupation of Judea in the

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<v Speaker 1>year sixty six. That revolt is often referred to as

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<v Speaker 1>the Great Revolt and also the First Jewish Roman War,

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<v Speaker 1>and Josephus was a general in the revolt.

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<v Speaker 2>This is also a.

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<v Speaker 1>Massive historical moment with a lot of context that were

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<v Speaker 1>not diving into here. But the germane aspect is that

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<v Speaker 1>though there were early victories for the Jewish side, eventually

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<v Speaker 1>they were defeated. Josephus describes the Romans destroying the Temple

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<v Speaker 1>in Jerusalem in the year seventy and that this war

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<v Speaker 1>displaced many Jews, including a large number that were captured

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<v Speaker 1>and enslaved. So the important thing to note here is

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<v Speaker 1>that at that point there were both free and enslaved

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<v Speaker 1>Jewish people living in Rome. Christianity began in Judea in

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<v Speaker 1>the first century and then quickly spread throughout the Roman Empire,

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<v Speaker 1>reaching Rome by the middle of the first century, although

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<v Speaker 1>in small numbers, and it was viewed with deep suspicion

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<v Speaker 1>by the existing Roman population, which remained polytheistic at time.

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<v Speaker 1>Rome's Jewish residents had gained kind of a grudging tolerance

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<v Speaker 1>by the Romans because the Jewish religion was considered to

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<v Speaker 1>be ancient, but Christianity was really an upstart, and its

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<v Speaker 1>followers were considered to be very aggressive in their desire

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<v Speaker 1>to convert other people, which Rome's eye is a big problem.

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<v Speaker 1>The Great Fire of Rome which started on July eighteenth

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<v Speaker 1>of the year sixty nine and lasted for six days,

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<v Speaker 1>was blamed on Christians. By the end of the first century,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a crime to be Christian in Rome, and

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<v Speaker 1>that crime was punishable by death. Over the following centuries, Christians,

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<v Speaker 1>as the Jews before them, faced this roller coaster of

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<v Speaker 1>persecution and kind of a fragile acceptance in the city.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up, we're going to circle back to how all

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<v Speaker 1>of this resulted in Catacomb's being created to bury the dead.

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<v Speaker 1>But first we are going to take a quick sponsor break.

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<v Speaker 1>Both Jewish and Christian practices regarding burials specified that the

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<v Speaker 1>body was to be kept intact, but as we mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>this was in conflict with Roman law, at least in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of anything that could be done within the city.

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<v Speaker 1>That law was part of what were known as the

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<v Speaker 1>Twelve Tables. These are regarded as the beginning of Rome's

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<v Speaker 1>legal system, and the Twelve Tables were composed by a

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<v Speaker 1>commission of ten men in four fifty one and four

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<v Speaker 1>fifty BCE. Once they were ratified, they were engraved onto

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<v Speaker 1>twelve bronze tables and displayed in the forum. Those bronzes

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<v Speaker 1>are unfortunately lost to time, and we don't have all

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<v Speaker 1>of the text of the Twelve Tables today. What we

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<v Speaker 1>have our fragments that were found in written references to them,

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<v Speaker 1>so instances where they were quoted while someone was often

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<v Speaker 1>discussing something else. What we know of the laws regarding

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<v Speaker 1>burials include the edict that states quote a dead person

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<v Speaker 1>shall not be buried or burned in the city. Additionally,

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<v Speaker 1>there are some other rules about limiting the degree of

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<v Speaker 1>public mourning, not having more than one funeral for a

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<v Speaker 1>given person, not wasting resources by burying gold, spices, incense, etc.

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<v Speaker 1>With remains, and where funeral pyres and burning mounds could

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<v Speaker 1>be erected in relation to other buildings. So for religions

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<v Speaker 1>that called for the burial of an intact body, this

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<v Speaker 1>meant that that burial was going to have to happen

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<v Speaker 1>outside the city, which is how the catacombs came to be.

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<v Speaker 1>Jewish residents of the city are believed to have been

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<v Speaker 1>the first to use catacombs to lay their dead to rest.

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<v Speaker 1>An important aspect of Rome's catacombs is how important they

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<v Speaker 1>are to Jewish history. According to Leonard Victor Rutger's writing

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<v Speaker 1>and Proceedings of the World Congress of Jewish Studies in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty nine quote. The Jewish catacombs of Ancient Rome

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<v Speaker 1>form the largest coherent body of archaeological material from late

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<v Speaker 1>Antiquity pertaining to Jewish life outside Israel. Though there had

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<v Speaker 1>been written information about the Jewish community of ancient Rome,

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<v Speaker 1>the catacombs offer a unique opportunity to compare physical evidence

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<v Speaker 1>with those accounts to gain a clearer picture of that

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<v Speaker 1>community and its rituals. One thing that Rutger's points out

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<v Speaker 1>in this writing is that there's no way to know

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<v Speaker 1>if there were any quote Jewish Christians i e. Jews

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<v Speaker 1>that accepted Jesus Christ as the Son of God and

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<v Speaker 1>raised from the dead and at the same time continued

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<v Speaker 1>to observe mosaic law buried in the Jewish catacombs. Identifying

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<v Speaker 1>which catacombs had been used for Jewish burial was done

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<v Speaker 1>based on the funerary inscriptions on the tombs there, which

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<v Speaker 1>had Greek and Latin writing, in combination with the identification

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<v Speaker 1>of Jewish motifs in the surrounding wall art and sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>small motifs that were carved into those stones that close

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<v Speaker 1>the catacombs. Those catacombs were also identified by just the

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<v Speaker 1>lack of Christian or Pagan symbology within them. But this

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<v Speaker 1>also gives an incomplete picture because there are catacomb sites

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<v Speaker 1>in the area around Rome that are unreachable or that

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<v Speaker 1>have been destroyed or have carved in, so the written

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<v Speaker 1>record and the archaeological record don't entirely match up. The

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<v Speaker 1>written record establishes a Jewish community in Rome as early

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<v Speaker 1>as the first century BCE, or perhaps even earlier, so

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<v Speaker 1>it has long been assumed that the Jewish catacombs were

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<v Speaker 1>in use sometimes shortly thereafter, but the archaeological record only

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<v Speaker 1>has evidence of them that begins in the early third century.

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<v Speaker 1>The Rutger's paper analyzes things like brickwork, painting styles, bricks, stamps,

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<v Speaker 1>et cetera to be able to conclude with confidence that

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<v Speaker 1>Jewish catacombs weren't actively used for sure in the third

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<v Speaker 1>to fifth centuries, but that the beginning and end of

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<v Speaker 1>their use cannot be conclusively identified on the time line.

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<v Speaker 1>He also makes the case that the practice of burial

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<v Speaker 1>being adopted instead of cremation was probably taking place simultaneously

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<v Speaker 1>among the Jewish population, Christians, and even some Pagans. We

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<v Speaker 1>do know that Christians also adopted the use of catacombs.

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<v Speaker 1>This started, according to the Vatican, under the direction of

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<v Speaker 1>Pope Zafarin, who was pope from one ninety nine to

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<v Speaker 1>two seventeen. He wanted to have an underground cemetery prepared

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<v Speaker 1>so that pontiffs could be laid to rest there.

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<v Speaker 2>The process of.

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<v Speaker 1>Burials there was a lot like what we described in

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<v Speaker 1>the opening passage that we read earlier. So bodies were

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<v Speaker 1>wrapped in cloth and then put into the hollowed out

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<v Speaker 1>shelves of rock, and then a stone was placed in

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<v Speaker 1>the front of that hollow to close it, with the

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<v Speaker 1>name of the person interred there, and often a symbol

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<v Speaker 1>of the Christian religion. Also, to be clear, there were

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<v Speaker 1>still tombs for the dead created for Rome's pagan population,

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<v Speaker 1>both for cremated and non cremated bodies. Cremation had become

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<v Speaker 1>the most popular method of handling corpses in the fifth

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<v Speaker 1>century BCE, but there were still people practicing full body

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<v Speaker 1>burials throughout the time periods that were talking about. They

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<v Speaker 1>still had to be interred outside the city, but families

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<v Speaker 1>of wealth and even a lot of the middle class

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<v Speaker 1>had private mausoleums built on land outside the walls of Rome.

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<v Speaker 1>That land was extremely expensive, so there were also shared

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<v Speaker 1>burial spaces that families with less money could buy into

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<v Speaker 1>to inter their dead, both intact and cremated, without having

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<v Speaker 1>to own land and build a private mausoleum. Jewish and

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<v Speaker 1>Christian communities, though needed to bury all of their dead

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<v Speaker 1>because of their religious beliefs, there was no option to

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<v Speaker 1>switch to cremation to try to mitigate overcrowding and lack

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<v Speaker 1>of land resources in a growing metropolis. Mausoleums were simply

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<v Speaker 1>not realistic, which is why large shared underground spaces were create,

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<v Speaker 1>And this was also not a new idea in the region.

0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:07.719
<v Speaker 1>The Etruscan civilization, which flourished from the eighth to the

0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:13.360
<v Speaker 1>third century BCE, had elaborate underground facilities. There are no

0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:17.959
<v Speaker 1>Etruscan underground burial sites in or immediately adjacent to Rome,

0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:19.840
<v Speaker 1>at least not that anybody has found.

0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.720
<v Speaker 2>But two of these, the Bandit.

0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:28.720
<v Speaker 1>Tacha Necropolis and Cervettori and Mantarazzi Necropolis in Tarquinia, are

0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.400
<v Speaker 1>both less than an hour's drive away today.

0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.520
<v Speaker 1>One thing that I found while looking at a lot

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:39.800
<v Speaker 1>of scholarship about this is that there are even some

0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:44.000
<v Speaker 1>papers and some examinations that kind of make the leap

0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:48.520
<v Speaker 1>to thinking that possibly the Jewish population made use of

0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:55.000
<v Speaker 1>existing catacombs that had been Etruscan in origin, but we

0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:56.920
<v Speaker 1>don't really have a good way to know that, at

0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:01.160
<v Speaker 1>least not yet. Jewish and Christian bear as well as

0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:05.480
<v Speaker 1>some pagan ones, continued in the catacombs exclusively into the

0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.400
<v Speaker 1>early fourth century. At the beginning of the fourth century,

0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:13.400
<v Speaker 1>in the year three oh three, Emperor Diocletian initiated an

0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:18.520
<v Speaker 1>intense persecution of Christians. This is always described as the

0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:22.600
<v Speaker 1>worst persecution of all of them in Rome and resulted

0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.760
<v Speaker 1>in the torture and deaths of a lot of people.

0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.680
<v Speaker 1>This went on for eight years, during which, despite that danger,

0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:34.520
<v Speaker 1>the numbers of Christians in the city continued to rise. Finally,

0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.960
<v Speaker 1>in three eleven, Emperor Galerius, who had ascended to the

0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.760
<v Speaker 1>role of emperor in three oh five and who was

0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:45.440
<v Speaker 1>by the way deeply against Christianity, surprisingly issued an edict

0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.840
<v Speaker 1>of tolerance that was the Edict of Certica to end

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.920
<v Speaker 1>that long persecution. By the time Galerius was emperor, he

0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.640
<v Speaker 1>was one of two under a system established by Diocletian

0:15:56.760 --> 0:16:00.040
<v Speaker 1>in two ninety three known as the tetrarchy. The the

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.120
<v Speaker 1>Roman Empire was jointly ruled by two emperors, one to

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.840
<v Speaker 1>manage the East and one to manage the West, and

0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.120
<v Speaker 1>each of them had their own designated successors who worked

0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:14.240
<v Speaker 1>under them. This was intended to create stability for the empire,

0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:19.880
<v Speaker 1>but unsurprisingly there were often problems. The time of Constantine

0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.640
<v Speaker 1>the First, who ruled the west starting in July of

0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.960
<v Speaker 1>three oh six, and Licinius, who became an emperor in

0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.040
<v Speaker 1>November three oh eight, was one in which there was

0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.360
<v Speaker 1>a lot of conflict between the two emperors. So much

0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:36.160
<v Speaker 1>conflict there are just reams and reams of papers written

0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.360
<v Speaker 1>about this conflict. But one thing that they did agree

0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.200
<v Speaker 1>on was the Edict of Milan in three thirteen. This

0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.360
<v Speaker 1>was an alliance in which they agreed to grant freedom

0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:50.240
<v Speaker 1>of religion to everyone, but they specifically called out Christians.

0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.400
<v Speaker 1>A translation of the first section of this edict reads quote,

0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:58.720
<v Speaker 1>when I Constantine Augustus as well as I Licinius Augustus,

0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:03.920
<v Speaker 1>had fortunately met near Mediolanum, Milan, and we're considering everything

0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.240
<v Speaker 1>that pertained to the public welfare and security. We thought that,

0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:09.560
<v Speaker 1>among other things which we saw would be for the

0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.199
<v Speaker 1>good of many. Those regulations pertaining to the reverence of

0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:17.119
<v Speaker 1>the divinity ought certainly to be made first, so that

0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.120
<v Speaker 1>we might grant to the Christians and to all others

0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:25.280
<v Speaker 1>full authority to observe that religion which each preferred, whence

0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.280
<v Speaker 1>any divinity whatsoever in the seat of the heavens may

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.720
<v Speaker 1>be propitious and kindly disposed to us and all who

0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.240
<v Speaker 1>are placed under our rule. And thus, by this wholesome

0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:38.760
<v Speaker 1>council and most upright provision, we thought to arrange that

0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:42.480
<v Speaker 1>no one whatsoever should be denied the opportunity to give

0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:45.480
<v Speaker 1>his heart to the observance of the Christian religion, or

0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.480
<v Speaker 1>of that religion which he should think best for himself,

0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:52.000
<v Speaker 1>so that the Supreme Deity to whose worship we freely

0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.360
<v Speaker 1>yield our hearts, may show in all things his usual

0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:59.720
<v Speaker 1>favor and benevolence. Therefore, your worship should know that it

0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.879
<v Speaker 1>has pleased us to remove all conditions whatsoever which were

0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:08.400
<v Speaker 1>in the rescripts formerly given to you officially concerning the Christians,

0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.359
<v Speaker 1>And now any one of these who wishes to observe

0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:15.879
<v Speaker 1>the Christian religion may do so freely and openly, without

0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.840
<v Speaker 1>any disturbance or molestation. We thought it fit to commend

0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.440
<v Speaker 1>these things most fully to your care, that you may

0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.359
<v Speaker 1>know that we have given to those Christians free and

0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:29.720
<v Speaker 1>unrestricted opportunity of religious worship. When you see that this

0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.640
<v Speaker 1>has been granted to them by us, your worship, will

0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:36.080
<v Speaker 1>know that we have also conceded to other religions the

0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.040
<v Speaker 1>right of open and free observance of their worship, for

0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.760
<v Speaker 1>the sake of the peace of our times, that each

0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.920
<v Speaker 1>one may have the free opportunity to worship as he pleases.

0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:48.240
<v Speaker 1>This regulation is made that we may not seem to

0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:52.440
<v Speaker 1>detract aught from any dignity or any religion. I kind

0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.280
<v Speaker 1>of love that there's a little bit of a bet

0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:56.680
<v Speaker 1>hedge in there of like whatever God is the one,

0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:01.120
<v Speaker 1>be cool or cool with whoever you, whoever follows you.

0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.520
<v Speaker 1>This edict also called for the return of all goods

0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.480
<v Speaker 1>and wealth that had been seized to be given back

0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:12.160
<v Speaker 1>to the Christians. So from that point on, Christians were

0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:16.040
<v Speaker 1>able to establish churches and cemeteries, meaning they could conduct

0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.960
<v Speaker 1>their burial rituals in the city proper. But even though

0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.320
<v Speaker 1>burial was allowed in the city and a large number

0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:26.760
<v Speaker 1>of churches were built and included cemeteries or even places

0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.199
<v Speaker 1>within the buildings for the dead. The catacombs did not

0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:33.520
<v Speaker 1>instantly fall out of use. They were actively part of

0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:37.160
<v Speaker 1>Christian burials for more than one hundred more years, even

0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.920
<v Speaker 1>after Christianity was declared the official religion of the Roman

0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Empire by Emperor Theodosius with the Edict of Thessalonica in

0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:49.119
<v Speaker 1>three point eighty. Over the next several centuries, as burials

0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:53.280
<v Speaker 1>in the catacombs became less frequent, a different activity was

0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:56.480
<v Speaker 1>on the rise in them, and that was looting. There

0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:00.560
<v Speaker 1>were also religious services performed there on occasion, but looting

0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:05.359
<v Speaker 1>became a real problem. Reading different accounts of the Catacomb's history,

0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:08.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot of different groups have been blamed for that looting.

0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Mostly it was holy relics that were being taken from

0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.800
<v Speaker 1>burial sites. In reality, it was probably a lot of

0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:19.160
<v Speaker 1>different people over time. There's no one perpetrator. It's sometimes

0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.520
<v Speaker 1>said to have started with Christians removing relics since they

0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:25.960
<v Speaker 1>no longer had to literally keep their sacred items underground,

0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.600
<v Speaker 1>and other accounts point fingers at the various groups who

0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:33.320
<v Speaker 1>have invaded Rome since the fourth century, including the Visigoths,

0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:37.840
<v Speaker 1>the Vandals, the Byzantines, and the Lombards. This eventually led

0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.240
<v Speaker 1>the Vaticans to initiate a move of the relics from

0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.080
<v Speaker 1>the catacombs to churches around the city where they could

0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:48.960
<v Speaker 1>be carefully watched and safeguarded. With the removal of the relics,

0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.400
<v Speaker 1>the church also removed the reason that people had still

0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.440
<v Speaker 1>been visiting the catacombs, and over time they were more

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:59.800
<v Speaker 1>or less abandoned and forgotten. Additionally, while they were out

0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.720
<v Speaker 1>the city's original walls, as the city grew and expanded

0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:08.200
<v Speaker 1>past those old boundaries, new neighborhoods were built on top

0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.000
<v Speaker 1>of the catacolums, and people just sort of lost track

0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:14.840
<v Speaker 1>of where they were until they were rediscovered by a

0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:18.000
<v Speaker 1>man named Antonio Bosio. And we'll talk about him after

0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.120
<v Speaker 1>we hear from the sponsors that keeps stuff you missed

0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:33.360
<v Speaker 1>in history class going. Antonio Bosio was born in fifteen

0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:37.199
<v Speaker 1>seventy five or fifteen seventy six in Malta. He is

0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.919
<v Speaker 1>recorded by historian Bartolomeo dal Pozzo as having been the

0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:45.119
<v Speaker 1>child of Baligionotto, a knight of the Order of Saint John,

0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:49.439
<v Speaker 1>who had taken a vow of chastity that would have

0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:52.600
<v Speaker 1>made his existence a little bit problematic, and that was

0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:55.680
<v Speaker 1>compounded by the fact that his mother was either a

0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:59.320
<v Speaker 1>servant or an enslaved woman. The way it's written in

0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:03.600
<v Speaker 1>the old record, it's unclear what they mean when they

0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:08.720
<v Speaker 1>refer to her. When Antonio was twelve, he was adopted

0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.320
<v Speaker 1>and he was raised by his uncle, Jacomo Bosio, who

0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:16.000
<v Speaker 1>lived in Rome, and over time any mentions of Antonio's

0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:19.240
<v Speaker 1>parentage seemed to have been left out of his life story,

0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:25.120
<v Speaker 1>so his uncle Jacomo became essentially his parent. Antonio Bosio

0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:27.840
<v Speaker 1>was apparently a bit wild in his youth, but as

0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:31.359
<v Speaker 1>he matured he became a serious scholar. He got a

0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.639
<v Speaker 1>law degree and practiced for several years, but he was

0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:38.439
<v Speaker 1>also a history buff and was specifically fascinated with early

0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:43.160
<v Speaker 1>Christian history, so he started exploring any places that held

0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:47.360
<v Speaker 1>traces of the religion's earliest days, and that led him

0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:51.040
<v Speaker 1>to the underground cemeteries of the city. He explored them

0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:55.320
<v Speaker 1>in a very meticulous and careful manner, cataloging as much

0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:58.000
<v Speaker 1>as he could about everything that he saw there. He

0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.040
<v Speaker 1>started working on a book detailing the catacombs that he

0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:04.560
<v Speaker 1>had explored, but he died on September sixth, sixteen twenty

0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:06.679
<v Speaker 1>nine before it was ready to go to print.

0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.000
<v Speaker 2>It was basically complete, but it needed editing.

0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:14.200
<v Speaker 1>Bozio willed everything that he had to the Order of Malta,

0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:16.440
<v Speaker 1>and the grand Master of the Order at the time,

0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:19.879
<v Speaker 1>Antoine de Paul, was convinced that the manuscript should go

0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:24.960
<v Speaker 1>to press. Roma Sotrana Underground Rome was published in the

0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:28.439
<v Speaker 1>sixteen thirties and it is often cited with creating the

0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:34.479
<v Speaker 1>bedrock methodology and ideology of modern archaeology. His interpretations of

0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.760
<v Speaker 1>what he had seen and explored were incorrect in some instances.

0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:41.240
<v Speaker 1>He thought the catacombs had been hiding places where Christians

0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:44.439
<v Speaker 1>hold up during times of persecution, was not what they

0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:48.480
<v Speaker 1>were used for, but he captivated readers with his descriptions

0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:52.320
<v Speaker 1>of these underground cities. He had also commissioned artists to

0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:55.119
<v Speaker 1>create imagery of many of the things he had described

0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:57.480
<v Speaker 1>to be included in the book, and he had studied

0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:01.800
<v Speaker 1>early Christianity and was able to historical contextualize a lot

0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:05.080
<v Speaker 1>of the areas that he explored. This writing was also

0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:07.960
<v Speaker 1>a boon to the Catholic Church and the decades after

0:24:08.080 --> 0:24:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Martin Luther's kickoff of the Protestant Reformation in fifteen seventeen,

0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:15.960
<v Speaker 1>support for the papacy had fallen off very steeply, but

0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:21.240
<v Speaker 1>Bozzio's writings about martyrs laid to rest in subterranean Roman

0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:26.400
<v Speaker 1>cities sparked a new interest in Catholicism and in religious

0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:30.320
<v Speaker 1>relics that might also be there. Some of these, including

0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:33.960
<v Speaker 1>skeletons of martyrs, many of them clad in armor, became

0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:37.760
<v Speaker 1>important symbols of the Catholic Church's fight against the Protestants.

0:24:38.480 --> 0:24:42.119
<v Speaker 1>A lot of these, so called corfy santi or catacomb saints,

0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:44.840
<v Speaker 1>were sent to Catholic churches around Europe to try to

0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:48.840
<v Speaker 1>bolster interest in and devotion to the Church. I know

0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:51.320
<v Speaker 1>he said earlier that the relics were taken out of

0:24:51.320 --> 0:24:55.640
<v Speaker 1>the catacombs by the church, but they did not purge everything,

0:24:55.680 --> 0:25:00.159
<v Speaker 1>because at that point some catacombs were completely lost. If

0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:03.680
<v Speaker 1>you're wondering how he even found these or knew about them,

0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:07.600
<v Speaker 1>in truth, Antonio Bosio was not the first person to

0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:10.280
<v Speaker 1>have come upon the catacombs after they had been abandoned.

0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:14.560
<v Speaker 1>According to another book, which is also titled Romo Sotarana,

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:17.560
<v Speaker 1>which was published in eighteen sixty nine based on the

0:25:17.560 --> 0:25:21.560
<v Speaker 1>work of Giovanni Battista d Rossi, laborers digging in a

0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:24.840
<v Speaker 1>vineyard had found a subterranean cemetery at the end of

0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:28.560
<v Speaker 1>fifteen seventy eight, when Antonio Bosio was just a toddler.

0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:33.840
<v Speaker 1>The discovery quote at once attracted universal attention, and persons

0:25:33.880 --> 0:25:37.080
<v Speaker 1>of all classes flocked to see it. More than a

0:25:37.080 --> 0:25:39.720
<v Speaker 1>century before that, a vineyard on the other side of

0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:43.919
<v Speaker 1>the city had yielded a similar discovery. But apparently the

0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:47.359
<v Speaker 1>scholars of the day, according to this book quote, never

0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:51.280
<v Speaker 1>have felt sufficient interest to excite them, to investigate their history,

0:25:51.880 --> 0:25:56.199
<v Speaker 1>or to publish anything at all about them. Derosi is

0:25:56.280 --> 0:25:59.919
<v Speaker 1>the next person who represented another huge step forward in

0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:03.840
<v Speaker 1>terms of our understanding of the Roman Catacombs. While public

0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:07.240
<v Speaker 1>fascination with the catacombs had been sparked with the publication

0:26:07.359 --> 0:26:11.320
<v Speaker 1>of Bosio's work, that interest kind of faded off outside

0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:14.520
<v Speaker 1>of religious and academic circles. It took a couple more

0:26:14.560 --> 0:26:20.000
<v Speaker 1>centuries for another dedicated archaeologist to expand that work. Giovanni

0:26:20.000 --> 0:26:23.560
<v Speaker 1>Battista de Rossi was born in Rome on February twenty third,

0:26:23.600 --> 0:26:28.440
<v Speaker 1>eighteen twenty two. His father was military officer Camilla Luigi

0:26:28.480 --> 0:26:32.920
<v Speaker 1>de Rossi, and his mother was Marianna Marqueza Brutti. Giovanni

0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:36.080
<v Speaker 1>was raised Catholic and went to a Jesuit school before

0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:39.359
<v Speaker 1>moving on to study law at Sapienza University of Rome.

0:26:40.160 --> 0:26:42.679
<v Speaker 1>But from the time he was a child, do Rosi,

0:26:43.000 --> 0:26:47.400
<v Speaker 1>like Bosio, had been fascinated with antiquity. He actually read

0:26:47.480 --> 0:26:50.160
<v Speaker 1>Bosio's book for the first time when he was eleven.

0:26:50.320 --> 0:26:52.760
<v Speaker 1>He had gotten it as a birthday gift from his father,

0:26:53.359 --> 0:26:55.679
<v Speaker 1>and when he was still a teenager, he managed to

0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:58.720
<v Speaker 1>convince a priest to go into the catacombs with him.

0:26:59.119 --> 0:27:02.199
<v Speaker 1>This was apparently considered to be somewhat dangerous because they

0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:06.000
<v Speaker 1>had not really been maintained, and that priest, Jesuit father

0:27:06.080 --> 0:27:10.960
<v Speaker 1>Joseppe Marki, became a long term collaborator with Derosi. After

0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:14.480
<v Speaker 1>completing school, Derosie got a job at the Vatican Library

0:27:14.560 --> 0:27:17.399
<v Speaker 1>as a scriptor. That was a job that encompassed a

0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:21.320
<v Speaker 1>lot of library tasks, including cataloging, and he worked there

0:27:21.440 --> 0:27:23.720
<v Speaker 1>as his primary job for the rest of his life.

0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:26.399
<v Speaker 1>But in his off hours he followed his passion for

0:27:26.520 --> 0:27:30.399
<v Speaker 1>Christian archaeology, something that made good use of his occupation

0:27:30.600 --> 0:27:33.199
<v Speaker 1>since he had access to a wealth of rare and

0:27:33.240 --> 0:27:39.159
<v Speaker 1>important manuscripts. Derosi became incredibly knowledgeable about the Catacombs as

0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:42.560
<v Speaker 1>well as other important Christian religious sites, and he was

0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:46.280
<v Speaker 1>able to develop a network of associates who shared his passion.

0:27:47.080 --> 0:27:49.920
<v Speaker 1>He traveled around Europe as well as throughout Italy in

0:27:50.000 --> 0:27:53.359
<v Speaker 1>his quest to learn all that he could about religious antiquities,

0:27:53.760 --> 0:27:57.240
<v Speaker 1>and through his friends he often received rare materials from

0:27:57.280 --> 0:28:01.119
<v Speaker 1>around the world to study. His repute earned him a

0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:04.000
<v Speaker 1>great deal of admiration in the Vatican, and he is

0:28:04.000 --> 0:28:06.760
<v Speaker 1>said to have been very well liked by Pope's Pious

0:28:06.800 --> 0:28:10.280
<v Speaker 1>the ninth and Leo the thirteenth, and he explored the

0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:15.120
<v Speaker 1>Catacombs at great length, including discovering the Catacombs of Callixtus,

0:28:15.600 --> 0:28:19.080
<v Speaker 1>that's the catacomb that was created by Pope Zephyrenius to

0:28:19.119 --> 0:28:22.840
<v Speaker 1>be a resting place for pontiffs. He often went on

0:28:23.000 --> 0:28:26.560
<v Speaker 1>his expeditions in underground Rome with his brother Michel Stefano

0:28:26.600 --> 0:28:29.880
<v Speaker 1>by his side. Michelle was a scholar in his own right,

0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:33.760
<v Speaker 1>but his work focused on natural science. He wrote papers

0:28:33.760 --> 0:28:36.280
<v Speaker 1>that analyzed the Catacombs from the point of view of

0:28:36.320 --> 0:28:42.120
<v Speaker 1>a geologist, examining the earth that was excavated to create them. Derosi,

0:28:42.280 --> 0:28:47.400
<v Speaker 1>like Bosio, sought to contextualize Christian archaeological finds by studying

0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:51.640
<v Speaker 1>the literature of the times they came from. But unlike Bosio,

0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:55.000
<v Speaker 1>he had access to almost anything he could have wished

0:28:55.040 --> 0:28:58.680
<v Speaker 1>for in studying that context. Remember he's sitting in the

0:28:58.720 --> 0:29:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Vatican library all day every day. He wrote a lot

0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:06.360
<v Speaker 1>about the early history of the religion, how its hierarchy developed,

0:29:06.600 --> 0:29:10.040
<v Speaker 1>how theological writing had developed and evolved over time, and

0:29:10.120 --> 0:29:11.760
<v Speaker 1>an array of other topics.

0:29:12.400 --> 0:29:13.840
<v Speaker 2>The book that we quoted.

0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:17.280
<v Speaker 1>From earlier was an English translation which fellow academics from

0:29:17.280 --> 0:29:21.560
<v Speaker 1>his circle compiled from his work with his permission. While

0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:24.840
<v Speaker 1>he was still alive, at the age of seventy, he

0:29:24.920 --> 0:29:27.360
<v Speaker 1>had a stroke and he never fully recovered from it.

0:29:27.960 --> 0:29:31.880
<v Speaker 1>He died on September twentieth, eighteen ninety four, at Castel Gandolfo,

0:29:31.960 --> 0:29:34.640
<v Speaker 1>which is a town south of Rome, in an apartment

0:29:34.720 --> 0:29:37.640
<v Speaker 1>that was provided to him by Pope Leo the thirteenth

0:29:37.680 --> 0:29:41.640
<v Speaker 1>in the papal palace there. Outside of his writing, because

0:29:41.680 --> 0:29:44.160
<v Speaker 1>of de Rosie's good standing with the Vatican, he was

0:29:44.200 --> 0:29:47.640
<v Speaker 1>able to catalyze the creation of a new division within

0:29:47.680 --> 0:29:51.360
<v Speaker 1>the Catholic Church that would carry on his work. When

0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:54.160
<v Speaker 1>Pius the ninth was on the Holy See. Derosi made

0:29:54.160 --> 0:29:56.120
<v Speaker 1>the case to the Pope that it would be in

0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:59.440
<v Speaker 1>the best interest of the Vatican to ensure that important

0:29:59.520 --> 0:30:03.440
<v Speaker 1>archaeolie logical finds could be studied and protected, and in

0:30:03.480 --> 0:30:07.280
<v Speaker 1>eighteen fifty two the Commission for Sacred Archaeology was formed.

0:30:07.840 --> 0:30:10.360
<v Speaker 1>It still operates today and it's in charge of the

0:30:10.400 --> 0:30:14.040
<v Speaker 1>maintenance and preservation of the Christian Catacombs of Rome, and

0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:17.440
<v Speaker 1>it keeps an eye on quote cemeteries and ancient Christian

0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:20.720
<v Speaker 1>buildings of Rome and its suburbs, for the systematic and

0:30:20.800 --> 0:30:24.640
<v Speaker 1>scientific excavation and exploration of the same cemeteries, and for

0:30:24.720 --> 0:30:27.760
<v Speaker 1>the preservation and upkeep of what was found or brought

0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:32.080
<v Speaker 1>to light again by the excavations. But even as de

0:30:32.240 --> 0:30:35.320
<v Speaker 1>Rosi's work on the Catacombs was becoming more widely known,

0:30:35.880 --> 0:30:38.920
<v Speaker 1>it seemed like the way the information was disseminated in

0:30:38.960 --> 0:30:42.560
<v Speaker 1>circles outside of religious scholarship could be a little odd,

0:30:42.680 --> 0:30:46.080
<v Speaker 1>and it was often romanticized. In the first half of

0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:49.719
<v Speaker 1>eighteen eighty eight, the London periodical The Architect, a weekly

0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:53.680
<v Speaker 1>illustrated journal of art, civil engineering, and building, ran a

0:30:53.720 --> 0:30:56.800
<v Speaker 1>write up describing a recent lecture given by a professor

0:30:56.880 --> 0:31:00.520
<v Speaker 1>Stokes of Dublin. I could not figure out more information

0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:03.800
<v Speaker 1>on who Professor Stokes was. The Stokes that I could

0:31:03.840 --> 0:31:07.600
<v Speaker 1>find that was around the same time was in a

0:31:07.600 --> 0:31:10.000
<v Speaker 1>different field and a little too late, so I never

0:31:10.080 --> 0:31:16.480
<v Speaker 1>identified him. But according to the architect, regarding the Roman catacombs,

0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:20.200
<v Speaker 1>Stokes had discussed quote, his own idea before he studied

0:31:20.200 --> 0:31:22.640
<v Speaker 1>the subject was that the city of Rome was built

0:31:22.720 --> 0:31:25.920
<v Speaker 1>over them, that the catacombs had furnished the building material

0:31:26.000 --> 0:31:29.000
<v Speaker 1>for the city thus erected, and that their early Christians,

0:31:29.040 --> 0:31:33.320
<v Speaker 1>having discovered those excavations under their houses, made secret entrances

0:31:33.360 --> 0:31:36.200
<v Speaker 1>into them, so that when any danger threatened them, or

0:31:36.240 --> 0:31:39.400
<v Speaker 1>when they desired to worship in secret, they just retired

0:31:39.440 --> 0:31:43.720
<v Speaker 1>into those vast and gloomy recesses. That was obviously wrong,

0:31:44.280 --> 0:31:47.240
<v Speaker 1>but Stokes's lecture went on to say that quote. The

0:31:47.280 --> 0:31:50.640
<v Speaker 1>catacombs of Rome, however, were of a quite different character,

0:31:51.160 --> 0:31:54.840
<v Speaker 1>and he shared how he had discovered they were created

0:31:54.920 --> 0:31:57.640
<v Speaker 1>outside of the city and in some cases in the

0:31:57.720 --> 0:32:01.280
<v Speaker 1>hills surrounding the city. Stokes had learned that they were

0:32:01.280 --> 0:32:04.600
<v Speaker 1>not places of worship as Christians had those before the

0:32:04.600 --> 0:32:08.320
<v Speaker 1>catacombs were created, although there were sometimes services held there

0:32:08.360 --> 0:32:11.880
<v Speaker 1>as we've mentioned this whole write up is kind of quaint,

0:32:11.960 --> 0:32:14.440
<v Speaker 1>and it seems a little bit behind the times, sharing

0:32:14.520 --> 0:32:16.880
<v Speaker 1>things that had been known for quite a while as

0:32:16.920 --> 0:32:19.720
<v Speaker 1>though they were sort of mind blowing and utterly new.

0:32:20.640 --> 0:32:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Thirty years before that lecture, in eighteen fifty eight, The

0:32:24.560 --> 0:32:28.480
<v Speaker 1>Atlantic ran an article simply titled the Catacombs of Rome,

0:32:28.880 --> 0:32:33.600
<v Speaker 1>which opened with Roma Saturnia, the underground Rome of the Dead,

0:32:33.920 --> 0:32:37.480
<v Speaker 1>the buried city of graves. Sacred is the dust of

0:32:37.520 --> 0:32:41.520
<v Speaker 1>its narrow streets. Blessed were those who, having died for

0:32:41.600 --> 0:32:45.160
<v Speaker 1>their faith, were laid to rest in its chambers. Full

0:32:45.360 --> 0:32:48.440
<v Speaker 1>as the upper city is of great and precious memories,

0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:52.160
<v Speaker 1>it possesses none greater and more precious than those which

0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:57.200
<v Speaker 1>belonged to the city underground. Republican Rome had no greater

0:32:57.360 --> 0:33:01.880
<v Speaker 1>heroes than Christian Rome. This article name checks de Rossi

0:33:02.000 --> 0:33:05.080
<v Speaker 1>and Marchie and the creation of the Commission of Sacred Archaeology,

0:33:05.160 --> 0:33:08.640
<v Speaker 1>and it's also very much a combination of Romantic fascination

0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:12.840
<v Speaker 1>and pro Christian ideology, and has some jumps in logic

0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:17.400
<v Speaker 1>that convey inaccurate information, such as this explanation for the

0:33:17.440 --> 0:33:22.320
<v Speaker 1>catacomb's creation quote. The Christians would naturally desire to separate

0:33:22.360 --> 0:33:26.120
<v Speaker 1>themselves in burial from the heathen and to avoid everything

0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:30.400
<v Speaker 1>having the semblance of pagan rites yick. Even though they

0:33:30.480 --> 0:33:33.640
<v Speaker 1>have learned about the works of people who have studied

0:33:33.640 --> 0:33:36.080
<v Speaker 1>and explained them, they just make up this thing of

0:33:36.120 --> 0:33:39.800
<v Speaker 1>like Christians thought burying their dead next to pagans was icky,

0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:42.040
<v Speaker 1>and it's like, well, that's not really why these happened,

0:33:42.040 --> 0:33:47.040
<v Speaker 1>but okay. Today there are five catacombs that are currently

0:33:47.080 --> 0:33:50.960
<v Speaker 1>open to the public. The Catacombs of San Sebastiano is

0:33:51.040 --> 0:33:53.920
<v Speaker 1>named for a soldier who converted to Christianity and became

0:33:53.960 --> 0:33:58.479
<v Speaker 1>a martyr. This particular catacomb stretches about twelve kilometers it's

0:33:58.560 --> 0:34:01.560
<v Speaker 1>roughly seven and a half miles, so it's enormous, but

0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:02.760
<v Speaker 1>it's not nearly as big.

0:34:02.640 --> 0:34:03.520
<v Speaker 2>As some others.

0:34:03.800 --> 0:34:06.560
<v Speaker 1>This is one of the most popular catacombs with tourists,

0:34:06.600 --> 0:34:08.960
<v Speaker 1>though it's really been set up to be easily accessible.

0:34:10.040 --> 0:34:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Many Christian martyrs are buried in the catacombs of San Calisto,

0:34:14.480 --> 0:34:18.360
<v Speaker 1>that's even larger than San Sebastiano, at a massive twenty

0:34:18.480 --> 0:34:22.520
<v Speaker 1>kilometers or twelve point four miles. It is where sixteen

0:34:22.680 --> 0:34:25.560
<v Speaker 1>popes are laid to rest. Which makes it another popular

0:34:25.600 --> 0:34:30.280
<v Speaker 1>place for visitors. The next catacomb is perhaps more important

0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:33.440
<v Speaker 1>for its artwork that it contains, rather than the people

0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:36.840
<v Speaker 1>lead to rest there. The catacombs of Priscilla are filled

0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:40.719
<v Speaker 1>with frescoes, including one that is believed to contain the

0:34:40.760 --> 0:34:45.360
<v Speaker 1>first representation of the Virgin Mary. The catacombs of Domatila

0:34:45.440 --> 0:34:49.600
<v Speaker 1>run for seventeen kilometers that include an underground basilica, and

0:34:49.760 --> 0:34:53.200
<v Speaker 1>the catacombs of Santa Agnesa are named for the martyr

0:34:53.719 --> 0:34:57.160
<v Speaker 1>Saint Agnes who is buried there. This one has no

0:34:57.320 --> 0:35:01.200
<v Speaker 1>art of significance, but contains a number of significant engravings.

0:35:01.880 --> 0:35:05.160
<v Speaker 1>Of the six Jewish catacombs that are known to have

0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:08.200
<v Speaker 1>existed in the area around Rome, there could be more.

0:35:08.280 --> 0:35:11.520
<v Speaker 1>That's how many we noah For sure. Only two of

0:35:11.520 --> 0:35:17.080
<v Speaker 1>them remain though, Villa Randanani and Villa Torlonia. In addition

0:35:17.160 --> 0:35:19.319
<v Speaker 1>to the ones we've named here, there are more than

0:35:19.400 --> 0:35:23.520
<v Speaker 1>fifty additional known catacombs that are not open to visitors.

0:35:24.360 --> 0:35:26.960
<v Speaker 1>We don't really know the extent of the Roman catacombs,

0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:29.240
<v Speaker 1>and this is in part because of issues we've mentioned

0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:33.640
<v Speaker 1>earlier in the episode regarding things like Caven's. There was

0:35:33.680 --> 0:35:37.040
<v Speaker 1>a quote I found while I was researching this, which

0:35:37.080 --> 0:35:41.960
<v Speaker 1>was by a scholar named Estelle Shoat Bruttmann, who started

0:35:42.000 --> 0:35:45.719
<v Speaker 1>this entire field of archaeological research, particularly into some of

0:35:45.719 --> 0:35:49.680
<v Speaker 1>the Jewish catacombs. But in her writings she had included

0:35:49.680 --> 0:35:53.600
<v Speaker 1>this one thing that felt almost relieving as I was

0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:56.799
<v Speaker 1>researching this, because like you're putting together a puzzle where

0:35:56.840 --> 0:35:58.880
<v Speaker 1>we don't have all the pieces, and the pieces we

0:35:58.920 --> 0:36:02.040
<v Speaker 1>do have I don't always match up exactly right. But

0:36:02.120 --> 0:36:03.280
<v Speaker 1>I read this and felt better.

0:36:03.560 --> 0:36:05.040
<v Speaker 2>It's said, not all.

0:36:04.920 --> 0:36:08.040
<v Speaker 1>The pieces of evidence for Christian and Jewish burials in

0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:12.120
<v Speaker 1>this setting can fit into a seamless hole. So she,

0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:15.080
<v Speaker 1>like other scholars, has been grappling with these problems for

0:36:15.120 --> 0:36:19.279
<v Speaker 1>a long time. But that is our brief overview of

0:36:19.280 --> 0:36:22.160
<v Speaker 1>my wish list place to go, which is.

0:36:22.000 --> 0:36:27.160
<v Speaker 2>The catecopes over Do you also have some listener mail?

0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:30.000
<v Speaker 1>I do. It is about a different place that I

0:36:30.040 --> 0:36:33.680
<v Speaker 1>have been. This is from our listener, Aaron, who writes, Hello,

0:36:33.760 --> 0:36:36.680
<v Speaker 1>Tracy and Holly. My son just wrapped up his ap

0:36:36.920 --> 0:36:40.440
<v Speaker 1>dual enrollment humanities class at a Virginia Governor's School for

0:36:40.600 --> 0:36:43.920
<v Speaker 1>GT students. As a part of this class, students had

0:36:43.920 --> 0:36:47.920
<v Speaker 1>to conduct authentic, original research about a non Western culture

0:36:48.000 --> 0:36:50.880
<v Speaker 1>to which they do not belong. They spent the entire

0:36:50.920 --> 0:36:54.520
<v Speaker 1>school year delving deep into their chosen research topic, reviewing

0:36:54.560 --> 0:37:00.440
<v Speaker 1>existing literature, scholarly articles, primary sources, etc. I wish we

0:37:00.440 --> 0:37:02.400
<v Speaker 1>had done something like this when I was in high school.

0:37:03.160 --> 0:37:05.840
<v Speaker 1>After writing their final paper, they presented their findings to

0:37:05.880 --> 0:37:08.759
<v Speaker 1>the entire school. My ears perked up when I heard

0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:12.200
<v Speaker 1>your episode on Emperor Meiji and the Meiji Shrine because

0:37:12.239 --> 0:37:15.000
<v Speaker 1>my son's research was about the role of Shinto religious

0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:18.040
<v Speaker 1>practices in the political transition at the end of the

0:37:18.080 --> 0:37:21.480
<v Speaker 1>Tokugawa Shogunate. I'm the editor in chief for most of

0:37:21.520 --> 0:37:23.600
<v Speaker 1>his school papers, so I had the pleasure of reading

0:37:23.640 --> 0:37:28.120
<v Speaker 1>this incredibly in depth academic paper, despite having a master's

0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:31.120
<v Speaker 1>degree in education with very little background knowledge about this

0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:34.560
<v Speaker 1>part of Japanese history. Myself, I was feeling more than

0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:37.279
<v Speaker 1>a little lost. At least I could help him edit

0:37:37.400 --> 0:37:40.360
<v Speaker 1>for grammar and clarity. I was thrilled to listen to

0:37:40.400 --> 0:37:43.480
<v Speaker 1>your episode to get a broader picture and more historical

0:37:43.560 --> 0:37:46.479
<v Speaker 1>context for this topic, which put my son's research into

0:37:46.480 --> 0:37:49.280
<v Speaker 1>perspective for me. I played a portion of the episode

0:37:49.280 --> 0:37:50.799
<v Speaker 1>for him, and when we got to the part in

0:37:50.840 --> 0:37:54.279
<v Speaker 1>which you explained Kami, my son exclaimed that sounded like

0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:57.320
<v Speaker 1>they nearly quoted my paper. I couldn't help but agree,

0:37:57.360 --> 0:37:59.200
<v Speaker 1>as that is exactly why I played that part of

0:37:59.200 --> 0:38:01.640
<v Speaker 1>the podcast for him. Thank you for the years of

0:38:01.719 --> 0:38:06.279
<v Speaker 1>highest quality infotainment. I have a PhD in SYMHC. And

0:38:06.320 --> 0:38:09.320
<v Speaker 1>you have kept me company through household chores, long drives,

0:38:09.600 --> 0:38:12.120
<v Speaker 1>and many many hours of sewing, both for pleasure and

0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:15.360
<v Speaker 1>my second job. Attached is a bit of pet tax

0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:18.640
<v Speaker 1>our pedigree Bengal cat raven Paw, who like her Raven

0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:23.760
<v Speaker 1>Claw namesake, is incredibly clever. She knows many tricks including sit, come,

0:38:23.840 --> 0:38:26.759
<v Speaker 1>give hugs, and give kisses, and she uses the pet

0:38:26.800 --> 0:38:29.560
<v Speaker 1>talking buttons to request to play with her various toys.

0:38:29.960 --> 0:38:33.560
<v Speaker 1>She's also super talkative, meowing in conversational turns with you,

0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:36.319
<v Speaker 1>to the point that our family accidentally mews at each

0:38:36.360 --> 0:38:38.600
<v Speaker 1>other because we are so used to mewing with the cat.

0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:41.680
<v Speaker 1>My eleven year old has inadvertently mewed at me as

0:38:41.719 --> 0:38:44.080
<v Speaker 1>a greeting more times than I can count. Thank you

0:38:44.160 --> 0:38:46.680
<v Speaker 1>again for all you do Erin. I love all of this.

0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:50.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm so glad that that offered up like a supplement

0:38:51.000 --> 0:38:53.359
<v Speaker 1>to the work that you had been reading of your

0:38:53.360 --> 0:38:56.120
<v Speaker 1>sons and kind of you know, helped add a bit

0:38:56.160 --> 0:38:59.320
<v Speaker 1>of context. I also love this meowing thing because my

0:38:59.400 --> 0:39:01.160
<v Speaker 1>husband and I will spen entire days where I think

0:39:01.160 --> 0:39:04.120
<v Speaker 1>all we do is reality because we too have had

0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:04.960
<v Speaker 1>miaowi kiddies.

0:39:05.239 --> 0:39:08.760
<v Speaker 2>We sing songs in meow. Meow is just a greeting

0:39:08.760 --> 0:39:11.040
<v Speaker 2>at our house. Yeah.

0:39:12.000 --> 0:39:14.799
<v Speaker 1>I have two cats that whoever owned them before I

0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:19.440
<v Speaker 1>owned them taught them kisses. Yeah, they probably tried to

0:39:19.480 --> 0:39:21.960
<v Speaker 1>teach Marva, but she just flipped them the bird because

0:39:21.960 --> 0:39:23.319
<v Speaker 1>she didn't do what you want her to do.

0:39:23.440 --> 0:39:25.520
<v Speaker 2>She does what Marva wants to do. But it's pretty

0:39:25.520 --> 0:39:26.160
<v Speaker 2>good when you go.

0:39:26.200 --> 0:39:28.400
<v Speaker 1>Kisses and they put their little face on yours is

0:39:28.400 --> 0:39:34.200
<v Speaker 1>and sweeteness. So your kiddy is absolutely gorgeous and probably

0:39:34.239 --> 0:39:38.719
<v Speaker 1>smarter than the rest of us put together. So beautiful.

0:39:38.840 --> 0:39:41.239
<v Speaker 1>Oh that little face too much, too much in the

0:39:41.280 --> 0:39:43.719
<v Speaker 1>best way. Thank you so much for writing to us

0:39:43.760 --> 0:39:47.799
<v Speaker 1>and sharing that story and I it just delighted me

0:39:47.840 --> 0:39:50.480
<v Speaker 1>to no end. And now I'm going to think about

0:39:50.480 --> 0:39:53.560
<v Speaker 1>your cat for probably more than is reasonable. If you

0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:55.360
<v Speaker 1>would like to write to us, you can do so

0:39:56.080 --> 0:40:00.600
<v Speaker 1>at History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. You can also

0:40:01.200 --> 0:40:05.040
<v Speaker 1>read all the show notes on mistinhistory dot com. Each

0:40:05.080 --> 0:40:08.839
<v Speaker 1>episode has our list of research items that we use,

0:40:08.920 --> 0:40:10.719
<v Speaker 1>so if you want to reference any of those, there

0:40:10.760 --> 0:40:14.040
<v Speaker 1>they are. You can also subscribe to the podcast on

0:40:14.080 --> 0:40:19.239
<v Speaker 1>the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen to your favorite shows.

0:40:23.080 --> 0:40:26.200
<v Speaker 1>Stuffy mist in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio.

0:40:26.520 --> 0:40:31.120
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0:40:31.280 --> 0:40:33.280
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