1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Frye and I'm Crazy V Wilson. It's time for some 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: catacombs talk. Yeah, listen. This is a little bit of 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,159 Speaker 1: wish fulfillment for me because I have not been to 6 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: the catacombs in Rome, but I sure want to. It 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: just has not ever happened when I've been there. Now 8 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: it's a good excuse to go back. It's on my 9 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: list for any future visits. But the story of the 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: Roman Catacombs is one that's always been really interesting to 11 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: me because it is so very different from the story 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: we've told on the show before about the catacombs of Paris. 13 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: Romes are much older, they were created for very different reasons. 14 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about them today. I want 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: to give you a heads up if you are a 16 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,319 Speaker 1: person that knows about them and loves them. We're not 17 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: getting into the art. There's a lot of cool art 18 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: in the Roman Catacombs that could be its own whole 19 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: party train, and I would love for it to be. 20 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: But today we're really talking about like more of the 21 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: mechanics of how these came to be, why they came 22 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: to be, et cetera. We're going to talk about the 23 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: circumstances that led to their creation, their rediscovery after centuries 24 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: of abandonment, and their status today. A description of the 25 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: Roman Catacombs, published in eighteen fifty seven opens this way quote. 26 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: The Roman Catacombs may be briefly described as labyrinths of 27 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: subterranean galleries, crossing one another in every direction, and here 28 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: and there opening into chambers more or less lofty and spacious, 29 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: the whole hewn with the most exacting regularity out of 30 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: the living rock, whose entire walls present a series of 31 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: narrow shelves, one above the other, evidently excavated for the 32 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: purpose of receiving the bodies of the dead, and afterward 33 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: closed with facings of tile or marble, on which there 34 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: were often inscribed the names of the persons buried within. 35 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: So from that passage already some key differences between the 36 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: catacombs of Rome and those of Paris, which we've talked 37 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: about on the show. Before we reared that episode, I 38 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: think in October of twenty twenty three, the Parisian Catacombs 39 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: were a solution to a public health crisis that was 40 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: caused by the city's cemeteries being woefully overfilled was causing 41 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: a number of problems. So the dead were moved into 42 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: limestone quarries under the outskirts of the city, turning those 43 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: quarries into catacombs. This happened in the eighteenth century, but 44 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: Rome was creating catacombs well before that, all the way 45 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: back to the first century. 46 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, that writing that. 47 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: Tracy just mentioned is uh, it's from the nineteenth century, 48 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: and it's like during a time when people were getting 49 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: really excited about the Roman catacombs. Again, the person that 50 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: wrote that would end up working with one of the 51 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: people that we are going to talk about late in 52 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: the episode. So the catacombs are believed to have been 53 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: created in the first or second century as a way 54 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: for people to bury their dead according to a custom 55 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: that was not allowed within the city of Rome. Rome 56 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: at this time was pagan. The standard practice was to 57 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: cremate the dead. We'll talk a little bit about shifting 58 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: trends in how the dead were treated, but cremation was 59 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: not a practice that was part of Jewish and Christian traditions. 60 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: Burial of the dead in the city of Rome was 61 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: forbidden by law at the time we'll talk more about 62 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: that law. This is the very simple version to kind 63 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: of get us into the intro. But to really look 64 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: at the context of the Catacombs, we have to talk 65 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: a little bit about Jewish and Christian religion in Rome 66 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,119 Speaker 1: and how people who identified as Jewish or Christian were 67 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: treated and how they lived alongside other Romans. So the 68 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: early centuries of Rome's Jewish population, which of course that 69 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: goes back to before the development of Christianity, those early 70 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: centuries are complicated. They feature cycles of conflict and relative peace. 71 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: There are accounts of Jewish people living in Rome as 72 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: far back as the second century BCE. Rome expelled its 73 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: Jewish population on several occasions, including in one thirty nine 74 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: BCE amid accusations that they were attempting to convert Romans, 75 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: then again in nineteen CE for an assortment of accusations 76 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: ranging from fraud to disorderly conduct, and then in the 77 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: year forty nine when Claudius banished the Jewish population. That 78 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: last one is described in the works of Suetonius as 79 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: Claudius expelling them quote as the Jews were making constant 80 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: disturbances at the instigation of Christus whether or not Christus 81 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: was Gaesus Christ does a matter that biblical scholars continue 82 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: to examine, and that's way outside the scope of this episode. 83 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: But after each of these expulsions, there was always a 84 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: reversal of the policy, and often that was quite soon 85 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: after it had been issued. During the reigns of Julius 86 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: Caesar and Augustus, so in the time from the middle 87 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: of the first century BCE to the early first century CE, 88 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: there was legislation put in place that protected the practice 89 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: of the Jewish religion. So this was a period of 90 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: just constantly shifting sands of at least somewhat acceptance and 91 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: expulsion for Rome's Jewish population. Another text that gives us 92 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: insight into the Jewish population of Rome in the first 93 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: century is the account of Josephus, who was born in 94 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: Jerusalem in thirty six or thirty seven CE and wrote 95 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: autobiographical accounts of his life, which include the story of 96 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: the Jewish revolt against Roman occupation of Judea in the 97 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: year sixty six. That revolt is often referred to as 98 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: the Great Revolt and also the First Jewish Roman War, 99 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: and Josephus was a general in the revolt. 100 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 2: This is also a. 101 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: Massive historical moment with a lot of context that were 102 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: not diving into here. But the germane aspect is that 103 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: though there were early victories for the Jewish side, eventually 104 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: they were defeated. Josephus describes the Romans destroying the Temple 105 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: in Jerusalem in the year seventy and that this war 106 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 1: displaced many Jews, including a large number that were captured 107 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: and enslaved. So the important thing to note here is 108 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: that at that point there were both free and enslaved 109 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: Jewish people living in Rome. Christianity began in Judea in 110 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: the first century and then quickly spread throughout the Roman Empire, 111 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: reaching Rome by the middle of the first century, although 112 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: in small numbers, and it was viewed with deep suspicion 113 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: by the existing Roman population, which remained polytheistic at time. 114 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: Rome's Jewish residents had gained kind of a grudging tolerance 115 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: by the Romans because the Jewish religion was considered to 116 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: be ancient, but Christianity was really an upstart, and its 117 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: followers were considered to be very aggressive in their desire 118 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: to convert other people, which Rome's eye is a big problem. 119 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: The Great Fire of Rome which started on July eighteenth 120 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: of the year sixty nine and lasted for six days, 121 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: was blamed on Christians. By the end of the first century, 122 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: it was a crime to be Christian in Rome, and 123 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: that crime was punishable by death. Over the following centuries, Christians, 124 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: as the Jews before them, faced this roller coaster of 125 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: persecution and kind of a fragile acceptance in the city. 126 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: Coming up, we're going to circle back to how all 127 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: of this resulted in Catacomb's being created to bury the dead. 128 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: But first we are going to take a quick sponsor break. 129 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: Both Jewish and Christian practices regarding burials specified that the 130 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: body was to be kept intact, but as we mentioned, 131 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: this was in conflict with Roman law, at least in 132 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: terms of anything that could be done within the city. 133 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: That law was part of what were known as the 134 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: Twelve Tables. These are regarded as the beginning of Rome's 135 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: legal system, and the Twelve Tables were composed by a 136 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: commission of ten men in four fifty one and four 137 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 1: fifty BCE. Once they were ratified, they were engraved onto 138 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: twelve bronze tables and displayed in the forum. Those bronzes 139 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: are unfortunately lost to time, and we don't have all 140 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: of the text of the Twelve Tables today. What we 141 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: have our fragments that were found in written references to them, 142 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 1: so instances where they were quoted while someone was often 143 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: discussing something else. What we know of the laws regarding 144 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: burials include the edict that states quote a dead person 145 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,359 Speaker 1: shall not be buried or burned in the city. Additionally, 146 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: there are some other rules about limiting the degree of 147 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: public mourning, not having more than one funeral for a 148 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: given person, not wasting resources by burying gold, spices, incense, etc. 149 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: With remains, and where funeral pyres and burning mounds could 150 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: be erected in relation to other buildings. So for religions 151 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: that called for the burial of an intact body, this 152 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: meant that that burial was going to have to happen 153 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: outside the city, which is how the catacombs came to be. 154 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: Jewish residents of the city are believed to have been 155 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: the first to use catacombs to lay their dead to rest. 156 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: An important aspect of Rome's catacombs is how important they 157 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: are to Jewish history. According to Leonard Victor Rutger's writing 158 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: and Proceedings of the World Congress of Jewish Studies in 159 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine quote. The Jewish catacombs of Ancient Rome 160 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: form the largest coherent body of archaeological material from late 161 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: Antiquity pertaining to Jewish life outside Israel. Though there had 162 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: been written information about the Jewish community of ancient Rome, 163 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: the catacombs offer a unique opportunity to compare physical evidence 164 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: with those accounts to gain a clearer picture of that 165 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 1: community and its rituals. One thing that Rutger's points out 166 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: in this writing is that there's no way to know 167 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: if there were any quote Jewish Christians i e. Jews 168 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: that accepted Jesus Christ as the Son of God and 169 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: raised from the dead and at the same time continued 170 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: to observe mosaic law buried in the Jewish catacombs. Identifying 171 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: which catacombs had been used for Jewish burial was done 172 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: based on the funerary inscriptions on the tombs there, which 173 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: had Greek and Latin writing, in combination with the identification 174 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: of Jewish motifs in the surrounding wall art and sometimes 175 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: small motifs that were carved into those stones that close 176 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: the catacombs. Those catacombs were also identified by just the 177 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: lack of Christian or Pagan symbology within them. But this 178 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: also gives an incomplete picture because there are catacomb sites 179 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: in the area around Rome that are unreachable or that 180 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: have been destroyed or have carved in, so the written 181 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: record and the archaeological record don't entirely match up. The 182 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: written record establishes a Jewish community in Rome as early 183 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: as the first century BCE, or perhaps even earlier, so 184 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 1: it has long been assumed that the Jewish catacombs were 185 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 1: in use sometimes shortly thereafter, but the archaeological record only 186 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: has evidence of them that begins in the early third century. 187 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: The Rutger's paper analyzes things like brickwork, painting styles, bricks, stamps, 188 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: et cetera to be able to conclude with confidence that 189 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: Jewish catacombs weren't actively used for sure in the third 190 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: to fifth centuries, but that the beginning and end of 191 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: their use cannot be conclusively identified on the time line. 192 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: He also makes the case that the practice of burial 193 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: being adopted instead of cremation was probably taking place simultaneously 194 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: among the Jewish population, Christians, and even some Pagans. We 195 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: do know that Christians also adopted the use of catacombs. 196 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: This started, according to the Vatican, under the direction of 197 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: Pope Zafarin, who was pope from one ninety nine to 198 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: two seventeen. He wanted to have an underground cemetery prepared 199 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: so that pontiffs could be laid to rest there. 200 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 2: The process of. 201 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: Burials there was a lot like what we described in 202 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: the opening passage that we read earlier. So bodies were 203 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: wrapped in cloth and then put into the hollowed out 204 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: shelves of rock, and then a stone was placed in 205 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: the front of that hollow to close it, with the 206 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: name of the person interred there, and often a symbol 207 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: of the Christian religion. Also, to be clear, there were 208 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: still tombs for the dead created for Rome's pagan population, 209 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: both for cremated and non cremated bodies. Cremation had become 210 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: the most popular method of handling corpses in the fifth 211 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: century BCE, but there were still people practicing full body 212 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: burials throughout the time periods that were talking about. They 213 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: still had to be interred outside the city, but families 214 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: of wealth and even a lot of the middle class 215 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: had private mausoleums built on land outside the walls of Rome. 216 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: That land was extremely expensive, so there were also shared 217 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: burial spaces that families with less money could buy into 218 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: to inter their dead, both intact and cremated, without having 219 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: to own land and build a private mausoleum. Jewish and 220 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 1: Christian communities, though needed to bury all of their dead 221 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: because of their religious beliefs, there was no option to 222 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: switch to cremation to try to mitigate overcrowding and lack 223 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: of land resources in a growing metropolis. Mausoleums were simply 224 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: not realistic, which is why large shared underground spaces were create, 225 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: And this was also not a new idea in the region. 226 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,719 Speaker 1: The Etruscan civilization, which flourished from the eighth to the 227 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: third century BCE, had elaborate underground facilities. There are no 228 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 1: Etruscan underground burial sites in or immediately adjacent to Rome, 229 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: at least not that anybody has found. 230 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 2: But two of these, the Bandit. 231 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: Tacha Necropolis and Cervettori and Mantarazzi Necropolis in Tarquinia, are 232 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: both less than an hour's drive away today. 233 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 234 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: One thing that I found while looking at a lot 235 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: of scholarship about this is that there are even some 236 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: papers and some examinations that kind of make the leap 237 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: to thinking that possibly the Jewish population made use of 238 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: existing catacombs that had been Etruscan in origin, but we 239 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: don't really have a good way to know that, at 240 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: least not yet. Jewish and Christian bear as well as 241 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: some pagan ones, continued in the catacombs exclusively into the 242 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: early fourth century. At the beginning of the fourth century, 243 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: in the year three oh three, Emperor Diocletian initiated an 244 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: intense persecution of Christians. This is always described as the 245 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: worst persecution of all of them in Rome and resulted 246 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: in the torture and deaths of a lot of people. 247 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: This went on for eight years, during which, despite that danger, 248 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: the numbers of Christians in the city continued to rise. Finally, 249 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: in three eleven, Emperor Galerius, who had ascended to the 250 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: role of emperor in three oh five and who was 251 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: by the way deeply against Christianity, surprisingly issued an edict 252 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: of tolerance that was the Edict of Certica to end 253 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: that long persecution. By the time Galerius was emperor, he 254 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: was one of two under a system established by Diocletian 255 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: in two ninety three known as the tetrarchy. The the 256 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: Roman Empire was jointly ruled by two emperors, one to 257 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: manage the East and one to manage the West, and 258 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: each of them had their own designated successors who worked 259 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: under them. This was intended to create stability for the empire, 260 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: but unsurprisingly there were often problems. The time of Constantine 261 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: the First, who ruled the west starting in July of 262 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: three oh six, and Licinius, who became an emperor in 263 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: November three oh eight, was one in which there was 264 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: a lot of conflict between the two emperors. So much 265 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: conflict there are just reams and reams of papers written 266 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: about this conflict. But one thing that they did agree 267 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: on was the Edict of Milan in three thirteen. This 268 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: was an alliance in which they agreed to grant freedom 269 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: of religion to everyone, but they specifically called out Christians. 270 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: A translation of the first section of this edict reads quote, 271 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: when I Constantine Augustus as well as I Licinius Augustus, 272 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: had fortunately met near Mediolanum, Milan, and we're considering everything 273 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: that pertained to the public welfare and security. We thought that, 274 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: among other things which we saw would be for the 275 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 1: good of many. Those regulations pertaining to the reverence of 276 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: the divinity ought certainly to be made first, so that 277 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: we might grant to the Christians and to all others 278 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: full authority to observe that religion which each preferred, whence 279 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: any divinity whatsoever in the seat of the heavens may 280 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: be propitious and kindly disposed to us and all who 281 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: are placed under our rule. And thus, by this wholesome 282 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: council and most upright provision, we thought to arrange that 283 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: no one whatsoever should be denied the opportunity to give 284 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: his heart to the observance of the Christian religion, or 285 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: of that religion which he should think best for himself, 286 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: so that the Supreme Deity to whose worship we freely 287 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 1: yield our hearts, may show in all things his usual 288 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: favor and benevolence. Therefore, your worship should know that it 289 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: has pleased us to remove all conditions whatsoever which were 290 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: in the rescripts formerly given to you officially concerning the Christians, 291 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: And now any one of these who wishes to observe 292 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: the Christian religion may do so freely and openly, without 293 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: any disturbance or molestation. We thought it fit to commend 294 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: these things most fully to your care, that you may 295 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: know that we have given to those Christians free and 296 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: unrestricted opportunity of religious worship. When you see that this 297 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: has been granted to them by us, your worship, will 298 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: know that we have also conceded to other religions the 299 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: right of open and free observance of their worship, for 300 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: the sake of the peace of our times, that each 301 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: one may have the free opportunity to worship as he pleases. 302 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: This regulation is made that we may not seem to 303 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: detract aught from any dignity or any religion. I kind 304 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: of love that there's a little bit of a bet 305 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: hedge in there of like whatever God is the one, 306 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: be cool or cool with whoever you, whoever follows you. 307 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: This edict also called for the return of all goods 308 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: and wealth that had been seized to be given back 309 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: to the Christians. So from that point on, Christians were 310 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: able to establish churches and cemeteries, meaning they could conduct 311 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: their burial rituals in the city proper. But even though 312 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: burial was allowed in the city and a large number 313 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: of churches were built and included cemeteries or even places 314 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 1: within the buildings for the dead. The catacombs did not 315 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: instantly fall out of use. They were actively part of 316 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: Christian burials for more than one hundred more years, even 317 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: after Christianity was declared the official religion of the Roman 318 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: Empire by Emperor Theodosius with the Edict of Thessalonica in 319 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: three point eighty. Over the next several centuries, as burials 320 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: in the catacombs became less frequent, a different activity was 321 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: on the rise in them, and that was looting. There 322 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: were also religious services performed there on occasion, but looting 323 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: became a real problem. Reading different accounts of the Catacomb's history, 324 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 1: a lot of different groups have been blamed for that looting. 325 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: Mostly it was holy relics that were being taken from 326 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: burial sites. In reality, it was probably a lot of 327 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 1: different people over time. There's no one perpetrator. It's sometimes 328 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: said to have started with Christians removing relics since they 329 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: no longer had to literally keep their sacred items underground, 330 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: and other accounts point fingers at the various groups who 331 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: have invaded Rome since the fourth century, including the Visigoths, 332 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: the Vandals, the Byzantines, and the Lombards. This eventually led 333 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: the Vaticans to initiate a move of the relics from 334 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: the catacombs to churches around the city where they could 335 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: be carefully watched and safeguarded. With the removal of the relics, 336 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: the church also removed the reason that people had still 337 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: been visiting the catacombs, and over time they were more 338 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: or less abandoned and forgotten. Additionally, while they were out 339 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: the city's original walls, as the city grew and expanded 340 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: past those old boundaries, new neighborhoods were built on top 341 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: of the catacolums, and people just sort of lost track 342 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: of where they were until they were rediscovered by a 343 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: man named Antonio Bosio. And we'll talk about him after 344 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: we hear from the sponsors that keeps stuff you missed 345 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 1: in history class going. Antonio Bosio was born in fifteen 346 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 1: seventy five or fifteen seventy six in Malta. He is 347 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: recorded by historian Bartolomeo dal Pozzo as having been the 348 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: child of Baligionotto, a knight of the Order of Saint John, 349 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: who had taken a vow of chastity that would have 350 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: made his existence a little bit problematic, and that was 351 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: compounded by the fact that his mother was either a 352 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: servant or an enslaved woman. The way it's written in 353 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: the old record, it's unclear what they mean when they 354 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: refer to her. When Antonio was twelve, he was adopted 355 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: and he was raised by his uncle, Jacomo Bosio, who 356 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: lived in Rome, and over time any mentions of Antonio's 357 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: parentage seemed to have been left out of his life story, 358 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: so his uncle Jacomo became essentially his parent. Antonio Bosio 359 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: was apparently a bit wild in his youth, but as 360 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: he matured he became a serious scholar. He got a 361 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: law degree and practiced for several years, but he was 362 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: also a history buff and was specifically fascinated with early 363 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: Christian history, so he started exploring any places that held 364 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,360 Speaker 1: traces of the religion's earliest days, and that led him 365 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: to the underground cemeteries of the city. He explored them 366 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: in a very meticulous and careful manner, cataloging as much 367 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: as he could about everything that he saw there. He 368 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: started working on a book detailing the catacombs that he 369 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: had explored, but he died on September sixth, sixteen twenty 370 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: nine before it was ready to go to print. 371 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: It was basically complete, but it needed editing. 372 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: Bozio willed everything that he had to the Order of Malta, 373 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: and the grand Master of the Order at the time, 374 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: Antoine de Paul, was convinced that the manuscript should go 375 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: to press. Roma Sotrana Underground Rome was published in the 376 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: sixteen thirties and it is often cited with creating the 377 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:34,479 Speaker 1: bedrock methodology and ideology of modern archaeology. His interpretations of 378 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: what he had seen and explored were incorrect in some instances. 379 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: He thought the catacombs had been hiding places where Christians 380 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: hold up during times of persecution, was not what they 381 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: were used for, but he captivated readers with his descriptions 382 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: of these underground cities. He had also commissioned artists to 383 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: create imagery of many of the things he had described 384 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: to be included in the book, and he had studied 385 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: early Christianity and was able to historical contextualize a lot 386 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: of the areas that he explored. This writing was also 387 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: a boon to the Catholic Church and the decades after 388 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: Martin Luther's kickoff of the Protestant Reformation in fifteen seventeen, 389 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: support for the papacy had fallen off very steeply, but 390 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: Bozzio's writings about martyrs laid to rest in subterranean Roman 391 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: cities sparked a new interest in Catholicism and in religious 392 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: relics that might also be there. Some of these, including 393 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: skeletons of martyrs, many of them clad in armor, became 394 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: important symbols of the Catholic Church's fight against the Protestants. 395 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: A lot of these, so called corfy santi or catacomb saints, 396 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: were sent to Catholic churches around Europe to try to 397 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: bolster interest in and devotion to the Church. I know 398 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: he said earlier that the relics were taken out of 399 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 1: the catacombs by the church, but they did not purge everything, 400 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: because at that point some catacombs were completely lost. If 401 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: you're wondering how he even found these or knew about them, 402 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: in truth, Antonio Bosio was not the first person to 403 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: have come upon the catacombs after they had been abandoned. 404 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: According to another book, which is also titled Romo Sotarana, 405 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: which was published in eighteen sixty nine based on the 406 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: work of Giovanni Battista d Rossi, laborers digging in a 407 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: vineyard had found a subterranean cemetery at the end of 408 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: fifteen seventy eight, when Antonio Bosio was just a toddler. 409 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: The discovery quote at once attracted universal attention, and persons 410 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: of all classes flocked to see it. More than a 411 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: century before that, a vineyard on the other side of 412 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: the city had yielded a similar discovery. But apparently the 413 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: scholars of the day, according to this book quote, never 414 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: have felt sufficient interest to excite them, to investigate their history, 415 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 1: or to publish anything at all about them. Derosi is 416 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: the next person who represented another huge step forward in 417 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: terms of our understanding of the Roman Catacombs. While public 418 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: fascination with the catacombs had been sparked with the publication 419 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: of Bosio's work, that interest kind of faded off outside 420 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: of religious and academic circles. It took a couple more 421 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: centuries for another dedicated archaeologist to expand that work. Giovanni 422 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: Battista de Rossi was born in Rome on February twenty third, 423 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: eighteen twenty two. His father was military officer Camilla Luigi 424 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: de Rossi, and his mother was Marianna Marqueza Brutti. Giovanni 425 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: was raised Catholic and went to a Jesuit school before 426 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: moving on to study law at Sapienza University of Rome. 427 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: But from the time he was a child, do Rosi, 428 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 1: like Bosio, had been fascinated with antiquity. He actually read 429 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: Bosio's book for the first time when he was eleven. 430 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: He had gotten it as a birthday gift from his father, 431 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: and when he was still a teenager, he managed to 432 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: convince a priest to go into the catacombs with him. 433 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: This was apparently considered to be somewhat dangerous because they 434 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: had not really been maintained, and that priest, Jesuit father 435 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: Joseppe Marki, became a long term collaborator with Derosi. After 436 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: completing school, Derosie got a job at the Vatican Library 437 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: as a scriptor. That was a job that encompassed a 438 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: lot of library tasks, including cataloging, and he worked there 439 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: as his primary job for the rest of his life. 440 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: But in his off hours he followed his passion for 441 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: Christian archaeology, something that made good use of his occupation 442 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: since he had access to a wealth of rare and 443 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: important manuscripts. Derosi became incredibly knowledgeable about the Catacombs as 444 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: well as other important Christian religious sites, and he was 445 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: able to develop a network of associates who shared his passion. 446 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: He traveled around Europe as well as throughout Italy in 447 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: his quest to learn all that he could about religious antiquities, 448 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: and through his friends he often received rare materials from 449 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: around the world to study. His repute earned him a 450 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: great deal of admiration in the Vatican, and he is 451 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: said to have been very well liked by Pope's Pious 452 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: the ninth and Leo the thirteenth, and he explored the 453 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: Catacombs at great length, including discovering the Catacombs of Callixtus, 454 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: that's the catacomb that was created by Pope Zephyrenius to 455 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: be a resting place for pontiffs. He often went on 456 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: his expeditions in underground Rome with his brother Michel Stefano 457 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 1: by his side. Michelle was a scholar in his own right, 458 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: but his work focused on natural science. He wrote papers 459 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: that analyzed the Catacombs from the point of view of 460 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: a geologist, examining the earth that was excavated to create them. Derosi, 461 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: like Bosio, sought to contextualize Christian archaeological finds by studying 462 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: the literature of the times they came from. But unlike Bosio, 463 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: he had access to almost anything he could have wished 464 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: for in studying that context. Remember he's sitting in the 465 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: Vatican library all day every day. He wrote a lot 466 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: about the early history of the religion, how its hierarchy developed, 467 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: how theological writing had developed and evolved over time, and 468 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: an array of other topics. 469 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 2: The book that we quoted. 470 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: From earlier was an English translation which fellow academics from 471 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: his circle compiled from his work with his permission. While 472 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: he was still alive, at the age of seventy, he 473 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: had a stroke and he never fully recovered from it. 474 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: He died on September twentieth, eighteen ninety four, at Castel Gandolfo, 475 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: which is a town south of Rome, in an apartment 476 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: that was provided to him by Pope Leo the thirteenth 477 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: in the papal palace there. Outside of his writing, because 478 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: of de Rosie's good standing with the Vatican, he was 479 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: able to catalyze the creation of a new division within 480 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church that would carry on his work. When 481 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: Pius the ninth was on the Holy See. Derosi made 482 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: the case to the Pope that it would be in 483 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: the best interest of the Vatican to ensure that important 484 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: archaeolie logical finds could be studied and protected, and in 485 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty two the Commission for Sacred Archaeology was formed. 486 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: It still operates today and it's in charge of the 487 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: maintenance and preservation of the Christian Catacombs of Rome, and 488 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: it keeps an eye on quote cemeteries and ancient Christian 489 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: buildings of Rome and its suburbs, for the systematic and 490 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: scientific excavation and exploration of the same cemeteries, and for 491 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: the preservation and upkeep of what was found or brought 492 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: to light again by the excavations. But even as de 493 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: Rosi's work on the Catacombs was becoming more widely known, 494 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: it seemed like the way the information was disseminated in 495 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: circles outside of religious scholarship could be a little odd, 496 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: and it was often romanticized. In the first half of 497 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,719 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty eight, the London periodical The Architect, a weekly 498 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: illustrated journal of art, civil engineering, and building, ran a 499 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: write up describing a recent lecture given by a professor 500 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: Stokes of Dublin. I could not figure out more information 501 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: on who Professor Stokes was. The Stokes that I could 502 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: find that was around the same time was in a 503 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: different field and a little too late, so I never 504 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: identified him. But according to the architect, regarding the Roman catacombs, 505 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: Stokes had discussed quote, his own idea before he studied 506 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: the subject was that the city of Rome was built 507 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: over them, that the catacombs had furnished the building material 508 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: for the city thus erected, and that their early Christians, 509 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: having discovered those excavations under their houses, made secret entrances 510 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: into them, so that when any danger threatened them, or 511 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: when they desired to worship in secret, they just retired 512 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: into those vast and gloomy recesses. That was obviously wrong, 513 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: but Stokes's lecture went on to say that quote. The 514 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: catacombs of Rome, however, were of a quite different character, 515 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: and he shared how he had discovered they were created 516 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: outside of the city and in some cases in the 517 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: hills surrounding the city. Stokes had learned that they were 518 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: not places of worship as Christians had those before the 519 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: catacombs were created, although there were sometimes services held there 520 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: as we've mentioned this whole write up is kind of quaint, 521 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: and it seems a little bit behind the times, sharing 522 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: things that had been known for quite a while as 523 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: though they were sort of mind blowing and utterly new. 524 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: Thirty years before that lecture, in eighteen fifty eight, The 525 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: Atlantic ran an article simply titled the Catacombs of Rome, 526 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: which opened with Roma Saturnia, the underground Rome of the Dead, 527 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: the buried city of graves. Sacred is the dust of 528 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: its narrow streets. Blessed were those who, having died for 529 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: their faith, were laid to rest in its chambers. Full 530 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: as the upper city is of great and precious memories, 531 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: it possesses none greater and more precious than those which 532 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: belonged to the city underground. Republican Rome had no greater 533 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: heroes than Christian Rome. This article name checks de Rossi 534 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: and Marchie and the creation of the Commission of Sacred Archaeology, 535 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: and it's also very much a combination of Romantic fascination 536 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: and pro Christian ideology, and has some jumps in logic 537 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: that convey inaccurate information, such as this explanation for the 538 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: catacomb's creation quote. The Christians would naturally desire to separate 539 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: themselves in burial from the heathen and to avoid everything 540 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: having the semblance of pagan rites yick. Even though they 541 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: have learned about the works of people who have studied 542 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: and explained them, they just make up this thing of 543 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: like Christians thought burying their dead next to pagans was icky, 544 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: and it's like, well, that's not really why these happened, 545 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: but okay. Today there are five catacombs that are currently 546 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: open to the public. The Catacombs of San Sebastiano is 547 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: named for a soldier who converted to Christianity and became 548 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,479 Speaker 1: a martyr. This particular catacomb stretches about twelve kilometers it's 549 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: roughly seven and a half miles, so it's enormous, but 550 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: it's not nearly as big. 551 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 2: As some others. 552 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: This is one of the most popular catacombs with tourists, 553 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: though it's really been set up to be easily accessible. 554 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: Many Christian martyrs are buried in the catacombs of San Calisto, 555 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: that's even larger than San Sebastiano, at a massive twenty 556 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: kilometers or twelve point four miles. It is where sixteen 557 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: popes are laid to rest. Which makes it another popular 558 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:30,280 Speaker 1: place for visitors. The next catacomb is perhaps more important 559 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: for its artwork that it contains, rather than the people 560 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: lead to rest there. The catacombs of Priscilla are filled 561 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: with frescoes, including one that is believed to contain the 562 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: first representation of the Virgin Mary. The catacombs of Domatila 563 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: run for seventeen kilometers that include an underground basilica, and 564 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: the catacombs of Santa Agnesa are named for the martyr 565 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: Saint Agnes who is buried there. This one has no 566 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: art of significance, but contains a number of significant engravings. 567 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: Of the six Jewish catacombs that are known to have 568 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: existed in the area around Rome, there could be more. 569 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: That's how many we noah For sure. Only two of 570 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: them remain though, Villa Randanani and Villa Torlonia. In addition 571 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: to the ones we've named here, there are more than 572 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: fifty additional known catacombs that are not open to visitors. 573 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: We don't really know the extent of the Roman catacombs, 574 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,240 Speaker 1: and this is in part because of issues we've mentioned 575 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: earlier in the episode regarding things like Caven's. There was 576 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: a quote I found while I was researching this, which 577 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: was by a scholar named Estelle Shoat Bruttmann, who started 578 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: this entire field of archaeological research, particularly into some of 579 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: the Jewish catacombs. But in her writings she had included 580 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: this one thing that felt almost relieving as I was 581 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: researching this, because like you're putting together a puzzle where 582 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: we don't have all the pieces, and the pieces we 583 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: do have I don't always match up exactly right. But 584 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,280 Speaker 1: I read this and felt better. 585 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 2: It's said, not all. 586 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: The pieces of evidence for Christian and Jewish burials in 587 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: this setting can fit into a seamless hole. So she, 588 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: like other scholars, has been grappling with these problems for 589 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: a long time. But that is our brief overview of 590 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: my wish list place to go, which is. 591 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 2: The catecopes over Do you also have some listener mail? 592 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: I do. It is about a different place that I 593 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: have been. This is from our listener, Aaron, who writes, Hello, 594 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: Tracy and Holly. My son just wrapped up his ap 595 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: dual enrollment humanities class at a Virginia Governor's School for 596 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: GT students. As a part of this class, students had 597 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,920 Speaker 1: to conduct authentic, original research about a non Western culture 598 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: to which they do not belong. They spent the entire 599 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: school year delving deep into their chosen research topic, reviewing 600 00:36:54,560 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: existing literature, scholarly articles, primary sources, etc. I wish we 601 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: had done something like this when I was in high school. 602 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: After writing their final paper, they presented their findings to 603 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 1: the entire school. My ears perked up when I heard 604 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: your episode on Emperor Meiji and the Meiji Shrine because 605 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: my son's research was about the role of Shinto religious 606 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: practices in the political transition at the end of the 607 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: Tokugawa Shogunate. I'm the editor in chief for most of 608 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: his school papers, so I had the pleasure of reading 609 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: this incredibly in depth academic paper, despite having a master's 610 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: degree in education with very little background knowledge about this 611 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: part of Japanese history. Myself, I was feeling more than 612 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: a little lost. At least I could help him edit 613 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 1: for grammar and clarity. I was thrilled to listen to 614 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: your episode to get a broader picture and more historical 615 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,479 Speaker 1: context for this topic, which put my son's research into 616 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,280 Speaker 1: perspective for me. I played a portion of the episode 617 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: for him, and when we got to the part in 618 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: which you explained Kami, my son exclaimed that sounded like 619 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,320 Speaker 1: they nearly quoted my paper. I couldn't help but agree, 620 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: as that is exactly why I played that part of 621 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: the podcast for him. Thank you for the years of 622 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: highest quality infotainment. I have a PhD in SYMHC. And 623 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,320 Speaker 1: you have kept me company through household chores, long drives, 624 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: and many many hours of sewing, both for pleasure and 625 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: my second job. Attached is a bit of pet tax 626 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: our pedigree Bengal cat raven Paw, who like her Raven 627 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,760 Speaker 1: Claw namesake, is incredibly clever. She knows many tricks including sit, come, 628 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: give hugs, and give kisses, and she uses the pet 629 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: talking buttons to request to play with her various toys. 630 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: She's also super talkative, meowing in conversational turns with you, 631 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,319 Speaker 1: to the point that our family accidentally mews at each 632 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: other because we are so used to mewing with the cat. 633 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: My eleven year old has inadvertently mewed at me as 634 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: a greeting more times than I can count. Thank you 635 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: again for all you do Erin. I love all of this. 636 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 1: I'm so glad that that offered up like a supplement 637 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 1: to the work that you had been reading of your 638 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: sons and kind of you know, helped add a bit 639 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,320 Speaker 1: of context. I also love this meowing thing because my 640 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: husband and I will spen entire days where I think 641 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: all we do is reality because we too have had 642 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: miaowi kiddies. 643 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,760 Speaker 2: We sing songs in meow. Meow is just a greeting 644 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 2: at our house. Yeah. 645 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: I have two cats that whoever owned them before I 646 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 1: owned them taught them kisses. Yeah, they probably tried to 647 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: teach Marva, but she just flipped them the bird because 648 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,319 Speaker 1: she didn't do what you want her to do. 649 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 2: She does what Marva wants to do. But it's pretty 650 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 2: good when you go. 651 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: Kisses and they put their little face on yours is 652 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: and sweeteness. So your kiddy is absolutely gorgeous and probably 653 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 1: smarter than the rest of us put together. So beautiful. 654 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 1: Oh that little face too much, too much in the 655 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: best way. Thank you so much for writing to us 656 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 1: and sharing that story and I it just delighted me 657 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: to no end. And now I'm going to think about 658 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: your cat for probably more than is reasonable. If you 659 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 1: would like to write to us, you can do so 660 00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: at History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. You can also 661 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: read all the show notes on mistinhistory dot com. Each 662 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,839 Speaker 1: episode has our list of research items that we use, 663 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: so if you want to reference any of those, there 664 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: they are. You can also subscribe to the podcast on 665 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen to your favorite shows. 666 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: Stuffy mist in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 667 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 668 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,280 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.