1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:05,279 Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. 2 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 2: During all of this, I called one of my police 3 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 2: sources and I was like, what's going on here? And 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 2: he said, Nate, picture the craziest story you've ever covered, 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: times one hundred and that's all I can say. He 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: couldn't tell me more, and I think he proved to 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 2: be right. 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. I'm also the host of the historical 10 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: true crime podcast tenfold War Wicked On Exactly Right. I've 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: traveled around the world interviewing people for the show. I've 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: interviewed some people in person and some from my home 13 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: studio over zoom, and they are all excellent writers. They've 14 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: had so many great true crime stories, and now we 15 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: want to tell you those stories with details that have 16 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: never been published. Tenfold More Wicked presents. Wicked Words is 17 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: about the choices that writers make, good and bad. It's 18 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: a deep dive into the stories behind the stories. This 19 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: is a special edition of Wicked Words because we taped 20 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: it live earlier this year at Crime Con and Las Vegas. 21 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 3: A quick disclaimer. 22 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: We recorded this in a large hall, so you might 23 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: hear some unrelated audience noise in the background. Journalist Nate 24 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: Eaton moved to Idaho from Virginia to relax with his family. 25 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: Little did he know that he would be drawn into 26 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: one of the biggest true crime cases in decades, the 27 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: investigation into Laurie Vallo da Bell and her husband. Nate 28 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,919 Speaker 1: has the inside details on the trial and the plight 29 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: of both families. 30 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 3: Hey, Hal, I'm so happy to be here. 31 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: So this is a live taping for Wicked Words, and 32 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 1: I'm really excited. 33 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 3: Thank you. Yes, I'm excited, and I am excited. 34 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: For one, I love being in Vegas and I love 35 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: seeing people in person. But number two, I am used 36 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: to doing this show in my bathroom closet with a 37 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: curtain behind me that covers up all my blue jeans 38 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: and I'm always in sweats, so this is a new experience. 39 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: I'm really excited and I'm really excited about this story. 40 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: So we're going to cover with Nate today the Lori 41 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: Valo da Bell story, which I know many of you know, 42 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: and I know Nate enough about this story to ask 43 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: incorrect questions, probably because I think I do know stuff 44 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:38,839 Speaker 1: about it, so you need to correct me, and I'm 45 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: really excited to talk about it, though. 46 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 2: Well, there are so many aspects to this case. We're 47 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 2: going on three years now, multiple states, multiple family members, 48 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 2: multiple alleged crimes, So I can understand if your facts 49 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: might be a little not off. But you know, there's 50 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: a lot of information here. 51 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: He's covered this case from the very beginning, and you're right, 52 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: it's so complicated that when he pointed me to the website, 53 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: there's a whole who's who, characters list, there's a timeline list. 54 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: It is a lot to untangle. So you know, let's 55 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: just start from the beginning. 56 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 3: I like this story. 57 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: The first thing Nate said to me when we met 58 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: was I said, how did you get involved with this case? 59 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: And he said, well, I was in the hustle and 60 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: bustle of Richmond, Virginia, and I decided to move to 61 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: Idaho to you know, take a little bit of a 62 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: step back and relax a little bit, and then he 63 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: gets dropped into the biggest true crime case in a 64 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: very long time. 65 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 3: So how did this even start for you? 66 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was a local television news reporter in Richmond, 67 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: Virginia and we were starting our young family, my wife 68 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: and I. I was the eleven o'clock news reporter, the 69 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: lead reporter, so I was doing a lot of crime stories, 70 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: a lot of shootings, and I did want to kind 71 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: of a slow pace and get away from television, So 72 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: we moved to Idaho launched East Idaho News dot com, 73 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: a local news website. A lot of times we might 74 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: cover cows that are in the road or things like that. 75 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 2: And one day in December of twenty nineteen, we get 76 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: a news release from the Rexburg Police Department and it's 77 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: two pages long, which is very unusual for a news 78 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 2: release from a police department. Normally it's a couple of paragraphs. 79 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 2: And they were saying how there were two missing children, 80 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: Jj and Tylee, and that their parents were not cooperating 81 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 2: with authorities, and they did not say the location of 82 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 2: the parents, which was interesting. Well, we immediately start reaching 83 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 2: out to people in the community saying, does anybody know Jj, 84 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 2: does anybody know Tyley? Does anybody know this family? And 85 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: no one did, which was unusual because a lot of 86 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: times if a kid goes missing, people rally around and 87 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 2: they want to do things. This was a few days 88 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: before Christmas. The news release came in on a Friday. 89 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 2: On Saturday, the police sent another news release with photos 90 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 2: of Lori Valo and Chad Dabell, and they said, these 91 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: are the parents of these missing children. They are not 92 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: in Idaho, they are not cooper with authorities. Looking back, now, 93 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 2: this all seemed to be strategic on their end, but 94 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: at the time, as a reporter, we're like, why are 95 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: they doing things this way? Well, in between that twenty 96 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 2: four hour period of when the kid's release came out 97 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: and the parents' release came out, we had done some 98 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: research and learned that Chad Dabell's wife had died in 99 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: her sleep months earlier, and that Lori Valo's husband had 100 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 2: been shot and killed in Arizona months earlier by her brother, 101 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 2: Alex Cox, and he had died a week before the 102 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 2: news releases came out. So you've got three dead people there, 103 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 2: you've got two missing kids, and you've got two parents 104 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: who were refusing to cooperate with police. And during all 105 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 2: of this, I called one of my police sources and 106 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 2: I was like, what's going on here? And he said, Nate, 107 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: picture the craziest story you've ever covered times one hundred, 108 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 2: and that's all I can say he couldn't tell me more, 109 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 2: and I think he proved to be right. 110 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: Do you think from the very beginning that the Rexburg 111 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: Police Department was prepared for this, Were they equipped to 112 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: handle a. 113 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 3: Case like this? 114 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 2: Well, it's obviously, I would imagine the biggest case they've 115 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: ever handled. And I think when the initial call came 116 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 2: in months before this release, it came in as a 117 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 2: missing kid case, a welfare check. The grandparents of JJ 118 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: called and said, we're worried about our grandson. Can you 119 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: go check on him? Now, police get calls like this regularly, 120 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: and the majority of the times everything's okay, and they 121 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 2: went over to the home to check on JJ, and 122 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 2: that's when things started. You know. Laurie said that he 123 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: was with a friend down in Arizona and they were 124 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: in a movie while they contacted the friend and the 125 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: friend said, no, he's not with me. So I think 126 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: at that point they realized this is big. Every detective 127 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: shifted to this, and then they started to involve law 128 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: enforcement from Arizona. The FBI came in to assist, the 129 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 2: Fremont County sheriff came in to assist. So I don't 130 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 2: know if anyone could really be prepared for it. Honestly, 131 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: as a newsroom, I don't know if we were, because 132 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: this is this is such a huge thing. 133 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: Huge story, huge cast of characters. Yeah, lot's happening. So 134 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: let's go back and just get context for all of this. 135 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: So who do we start with? Is it Laurie or 136 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: is it Chad? Because there's a lot of backstory for 137 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: both of them. 138 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 2: Good question. Laurie Valo is beautiful, blonde, has the type 139 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 2: of personality that all of her friends say she just 140 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: sucks you in. You meet her and she just brings 141 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 2: you in. Well, she was married four times before Chad, 142 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: got married young as a high schooler, got married again, 143 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: married her thirst husband, he died of a hard issue 144 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: after they had separated, and then you've got her fourth husband, Charles, 145 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: who shot. I talked with one of the nannies that 146 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 2: worked for Lorie years ago in Hawaii, and she said, 147 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: at that point, Laurie read a book about the End 148 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: of Times and she was fascinated by it. That's all 149 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 2: she wanted to talk about. So I think she became 150 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 2: obsessed with these End of Time's teachings, found these groups 151 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: that would talk about Prepper Days and preparing for Christ's 152 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 2: second coming, and Chad was writing these type of books 153 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: and working with these type of authors. So Chad's writing 154 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 2: these books, Laurie finds these books. They then meet at 155 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 2: a prepper convention, and Laurie is fascinated because she's meeting 156 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: this author, and Chad sees this beautiful woman who likes him, 157 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: who's many say a bit narcissistic. So you start telling 158 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: someone with a personality that they're a goddess, that they 159 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 2: were married in a previous life, which is what he 160 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 2: was doing, that they helped create worlds, and that they 161 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: would usher in the second coming of Jesus. Christ and 162 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 2: her friends describe it as a It's like a match 163 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: and gasoline. One of them is a gasoline, one of 164 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 2: them is a match, and together an explosion. 165 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: Did you get the impression that Chad actually believed all 166 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: this or was this a manipulation tactic to get this 167 00:08:58,160 --> 00:08:58,719 Speaker 1: woman in bed? 168 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 2: Ad has written several books, and I wouldn't call it 169 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 2: New York Times bestsellers. Pretty average writing. You could say, 170 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 2: someone said it's like third grade writing. But he was 171 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 2: working with another author who wrote a book about a 172 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 2: near death experience, and that book sold a lot of copies, 173 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 2: and then Chad I think maybe realized her books did 174 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 2: so well. He came out and said he had a 175 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 2: near death experience and wrote a book about it. His 176 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 2: family members tell me they had never heard about this 177 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 2: near death experience until this book came out, So I 178 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 2: think that he may have seen the success of her 179 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 2: and then maybe adopted it to his story and then 180 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 2: started to gather these type of beliefs. I don't know 181 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 2: if he truly believes it. I think that, I mean, 182 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 2: maybe he did because he was teaching this before he 183 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 2: met her. Yeah, but maybe when he met her he 184 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 2: realized that she was attracted to this type of teaching, 185 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 2: so it escalated. That's a great question. 186 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: Do we have an idea of what Laurie and Charles's 187 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: marriage was and what kind of mom she was before 188 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: Chad is introduced into the scene. 189 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: From all family members, Charles loved Laurie. I mean he 190 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 2: went and filed for divorce when she started to kind 191 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 2: of go off the deep end, and then tried his 192 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 2: hardest to save their marriage, and by all accounts, she 193 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 2: was a good mother before all of this. They adopted 194 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: JJ and he had special needs. He's on the autism spectrum. 195 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 2: But they adopted him, and everyone says she was a 196 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: loving mother. There's photos of them, you know, doing all 197 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 2: sorts of stuff together. But when she started to get 198 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: involved with these religious beliefs and then really got involved 199 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 2: with Chad Dabell, and Chad's telling her that Charles is 200 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: possessed by a zombie and the only way to get 201 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: rid of his zombie is to pray the zombie out 202 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 2: of you or kill them. She obviously went for these teachings, 203 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 2: but Charles was madly in love with her. Charles had 204 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 2: a good job, he made good money, he took care 205 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 2: of her. Obviously, Laurie didn't, you know, deprecate that. 206 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: So one of the things I think is interesting if 207 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 1: I'm looking at the two families separated, is Laurie's family 208 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: is more interesting the brother relationship. What's your take on 209 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: Alex Cox And I've read some pretty interesting things about 210 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: their relationship he and Laurie. 211 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of stuff has come out about that, 212 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 2: that they were very close, that Alex would do anything 213 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 2: for Laurie, And I think is the case unfolds as 214 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: it already has to a point, it may appear that 215 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 2: Alex did a lot of these type of these crimes, 216 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 2: these serious crimes. But they did everything together, and Alex 217 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: was involved in their little religious group and believed in 218 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 2: these teachings. And of course they told Alex, you are 219 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: on the Lord's errand you are doing what the Lord 220 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 2: wants you to do, and he went with it. I 221 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 2: know that publicly, in the beginning, Laurie's mother and sister 222 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 2: defended her on national television. I know that those feelings 223 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: have changed a bit. I've been in touch with several 224 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 2: family member verse who have not come out publicly and 225 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 2: have not done interviews, but I think when the timing 226 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 2: is right, they will. And this has just crushed them, 227 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 2: this whole thing. They truly believed that JJ and Tyley 228 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: were alive and that Lourie was caught up with this 229 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 2: new husband. And I think there were a lot of 230 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: people believe that JJ and Tyler were alive. They never 231 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 2: imagined they would have been tortured and buried in Chad 232 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: Davell's backyard. 233 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: Well, and let's start with the chronology. So Charles's first 234 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: RD is this the first death that happens? 235 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 2: Charles is first. It was July of twenty nineteen. Charles 236 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 2: was going over to the house where JJ was and 237 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: he went in the house and Alex Cox shot and 238 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 2: killed him. Alex Cox told investigators at the time that 239 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 2: it was in self defense that Charles tried to come 240 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 2: at him with a bat and alex had to shoot him. 241 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 2: That case was never publicly addressed, I guess you could 242 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 2: say for months. That was in July, and then in October, 243 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 2: Tammy Dabell dies in her sleep, forty nine years old, 244 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 2: in good health. She passes away and she was buried 245 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 2: three days later. No autopsy was performed. Chad insisted that 246 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 2: an autopsy not be done. In Idaho, it's up to 247 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 2: the corner if an autopsy is done. The coroner had 248 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 2: just been elected. It's a huge county. Autopsies cost money, 249 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 2: I believe at the time, and the budget for that 250 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 2: county they budgeted two autopsies a year. So I think 251 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,719 Speaker 2: that the coroner showed up said okay, nothing suspicious here. 252 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 2: Tammy gets buried. Around that time is when actually before 253 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 2: several weeks before we know now, the children were killed 254 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 2: and buried in Tammy's backyard. So she was alive with 255 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 2: those kids in those backyard for several weeks, but no 256 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 2: one knew it, apparently not knowing no. So that with 257 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 2: July Charles dies. October Tammy dies. Two or three weeks later, 258 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: Chad and Laurie get married in Hawaii by themselves, no 259 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 2: family members except a photographer and a Yuka, Lele and Lays. 260 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,719 Speaker 2: And then December, well, two or three weeks later, the 261 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 2: grandparents in Louisiana, Larry and k Woodcock, are like, we 262 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 2: haven't had any contact. Police need to investigate. And then 263 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 2: December is when the news comes out that these kids 264 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: are missing. But by the way, a week before, Alex 265 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 2: Cox suddenly dies in Arizona. 266 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: So between September when the kids go missing and December 267 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: when the Woodcocks come and sound the alarms, we haven't 268 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: talked to them. No one else noticed that these kids 269 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: were going. No teachers, no neighbors, no friends, or were 270 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: they isolated. 271 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 2: Well, they were kind of isolated because of a move. 272 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 2: Laurie took the kids and moved to Idaho from Arizona. 273 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 2: That's why nobody in Rexburg knew who these kids were. 274 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: They moved into a town home and a week or 275 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 2: so later, Tyler died. Tyler was killed, and then they 276 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 2: did enroll Jajy in school in Idaho, but it was 277 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: only for a few days when Laurie went back to 278 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 2: the school and said, we're going to withdraw him, We're 279 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 2: going to homeschool him, and then he was killed. So 280 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 2: it was kind of like the family in Arizona wasn't 281 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 2: really keeping in touch with them, or if they were, 282 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: they weren't getting answers. Laurie kind of cut off communication 283 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 2: with everybody. Her niece Melanie, did move up to Idaho 284 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 2: in the same apartment complex where Laurie was staying, but 285 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 2: she says she never thought to ask about where JJ 286 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 2: or Tylie were And Laurie told everyone that Tylee was 287 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 2: enrolled at the university in Rexburg, which would have been 288 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 2: plausible she had received her ged she was seventeen, she 289 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 2: could have started classes at BYU Idaho. But no, as 290 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 2: far as we know, had those grandparents not said anything, 291 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 2: I don't know how long it would have been before 292 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: there would have been some questions about where are these kids. 293 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the actual deaths. So Alex hawks, 294 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: what do we think happens? Is he ambush Charles? 295 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, you could call it that. Charles showed up at 296 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 2: the house. It was early, early on a weekday and 297 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: he went in the house. Alex told please that Charles 298 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 2: came out at him with a baseball bat and missed, 299 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: and he had to or hit him in the head 300 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: and he had to shoot him. Well, Charles played baseball 301 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 2: in college. He was a great baseball player, and he 302 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 2: was a big guy. He was muscling. 303 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 3: He's not going to miss. 304 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, if he's going to swing and miss, he's going 305 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 2: to take you out. He's not going to give you 306 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 2: a little blood on the back of your head. So 307 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 2: Alex said he then had to shoot him. Well, police 308 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 2: later said, not only did he shoot him once, but 309 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 2: when Charles was on the ground, he shot him again. 310 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 2: So if there was any sort of self defense, why 311 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 2: would you need to shoot twice. Laurie then leaves with JJ, 312 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 2: who was in the house. They go to Burger King. 313 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 2: They stop and get a pair of flip flops, and 314 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 2: then she takes JJ to school, returns back and says, oh, yeah, 315 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 2: it was self defense. You might have seen the video 316 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 2: out there. She's got the long curly hair and she's 317 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: kind of laughing with the police. Officers were new here. 318 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 2: He came after my brother. She's taken down to the 319 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 2: police station, she's interviewed and released. The investigation did remain open. 320 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: A lot of people are like, well, why didn't police 321 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 2: do anything right then arrest Alex right? Then, well, they 322 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 2: were still doing their investigation. Maybe they could have acted quicker. 323 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 2: I'm not sure. It makes you wonder. So yeah, yeah, 324 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 2: that's what happened when Charles showed up. That's how he 325 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 2: was killed. 326 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: But I also remember, and I'm sure you guys if 327 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: you've called this story, I remember the footage, the body 328 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: cam footage of Charles coming out and talking to the 329 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: police and saying, my wife is threatening me. She thinks 330 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: I'm a zombie. She thinks I'm possessed. I'm afraid of her. 331 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: So I'm just so confused between the shooting twice and 332 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: that threat, which obviously is in the police record. I 333 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: wonder why there was no big red flag with the police. 334 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is hard to watch that video with Charles 335 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: that was done months earlier when he filed for divorce. 336 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 2: He put in the divorce papers my wife thinks I'm 337 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 2: a zombie and that a man named Ned Schneider has 338 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 2: inhibited my body, and she's talking about God coming and 339 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 2: her ushering in Jesus christ and he asked for a 340 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 2: psych eval on her, and at one point a psychological 341 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 2: evaluation was done on her, but she was released and 342 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 2: you can watch the videos of those interviews with her, 343 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 2: and she seems normal. She talks to the police and 344 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 2: they can't really hold you against your will. But yeah, 345 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 2: he had gone for help multiple times, and it is 346 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: heartbreaking to watch those videos. At one point, he got 347 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 2: home from a business trip and his car was gone 348 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 2: from the airport. She had taken it. He had to 349 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 2: track her down at a hotel and there's footage from 350 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 2: the officer's body cams where he's like, she's crazy, she's 351 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 2: lost it. Something needs to be done. And he even 352 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 2: went to his sister and said, I have a million 353 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 2: dollar life insurance policy. I'm worried something's going to happen. 354 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 2: I'm changing the beneficiary to you. It will no longer 355 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: go to Lori. He didn't tell Laurie that it happened, 356 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 2: and then sure enough, when he died, Laurie calls the 357 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 2: insurance company and says, where's the money. Well, she wasn't 358 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 2: the beneficiary. 359 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: See that would have been interesting to me. If she 360 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 1: had known that, would he have died at all? Because 361 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: it's trying to untangle her motive of whether or not 362 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: she was in her right mind when all of this happened. 363 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 3: I mean, what do you think. 364 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 2: You mean if she had known she wasn't going to 365 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 2: get the money, right, Well, it was the moment because 366 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 2: I don't know how much money they got from JJ 367 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 2: and Tylee's death. It seemed to be that whatever was 368 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: stopping them from being together needed to be done away 369 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 2: with in a way. But Tammy Chad's wife. Weeks before 370 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 2: she died, Chad up the life insurance policy on her, 371 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 2: so that was a financial situation. And then when he 372 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 2: showed up at the school, she was the school librarian. 373 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 2: Everybody loved her. She was kind of the sole breadwinner 374 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 2: as well. I mean, Chad wrote his books, but she 375 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: was the one that worked for benefits. And he showed 376 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 2: up at the school to collect belongings. There were a 377 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 2: bunch of cards that the students had made for her 378 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 2: for the family of we miss you, you know, our condolences. 379 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 2: He didn't want them. 380 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: So do we have an idea of what his relationship 381 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: with Tammy was like? 382 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 3: Positive marriage? 383 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 2: There were no indications that there were any problems. This 384 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 2: is all according to family members mainly on her side, 385 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 2: who says they were a typical couple children that were growing. 386 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 2: They were starting to enter the grandparents phase of life. 387 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: They lived in Utah for several years and Chad came 388 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 2: to Tammy one day before all of this and said, 389 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 2: I've been told by the Lord that we need to 390 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 2: move to Idaho. Tammy did not want to go. They 391 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 2: were born and raised in this town of Springville, Utah. 392 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 2: She did not want to go when they went house 393 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 2: hunting in Idaho. Why leave everything? And it's not like 394 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 2: he was leaving for a job. He didn't have anything 395 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 2: in Idaho to move to. He just felt that he 396 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 2: needed to go. So they found this home around the 397 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 2: corner from his brother. This family said please anywhere but here. 398 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 2: You know, this is our area. So Chat and Tammy 399 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 2: move up there and settle in, and Tammy gets this job, 400 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 2: and I think after a few years she got used 401 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 2: to living in Idaho. But she kind of did what 402 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 2: her husband asked. And they never filed for divorce. They 403 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 2: never sought marriage counseling as far as we know or anything. 404 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 2: I think they were just a normal, typical couple. 405 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 3: So obviously she doesn't know about the affair. 406 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 2: That we know of, and maybe if she did, her 407 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 2: family tells me that she never mentioned anything to them 408 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 2: about I think Chad's cheating. But looking back now, there 409 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 2: were visits they had together as an extended family where 410 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 2: they know for a fact now that Chad was having 411 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 2: that affair, and he was sending some of these text 412 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 2: messages that have been released from these family reunions to 413 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 2: Laurie on a private phone. So that was happening. And 414 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 2: you know, one interesting thing is a week before, well 415 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 2: ten days before Tammy died. They live in a very 416 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 2: rural part. I mean, they live in farmland. You could say, 417 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 2: she gets out of her car one night, it's October, 418 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 2: it's dark, and she says there's a masked man in 419 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 2: her driveway who was shooting at her with what she 420 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 2: thought was a paintball gun and she yelled and the 421 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 2: man took off. Well it makes you wonder now if 422 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 2: that was Alex Cox with a real gun that misfired 423 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 2: or something. Yeah, And I think the trial comes along, 424 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 2: we'll find more of that. It may not have been 425 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 2: a paintball gun, and there may have been an attempt 426 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 2: on her life that night. 427 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: Maybe a silencer. I mean, I don't know what would 428 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: make that. It'll be interesting to hear it unfold. So 429 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 1: if we go back in the timeline, Charles Valo is 430 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: dead July, and then we know that Tammy dies in 431 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: October of natural causes, and in around September, JJ and 432 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: Tylee die. What happens between July when Charles is dead 433 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: and September ish when JJ and Tylee die. What escalates 434 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: for her to turn so quickly on the kids. 435 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 2: Well after Charles dies, Chad is telling Laurie that. And 436 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 2: this is all according to court documents that have been 437 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 2: released and family member witnesses, things like that Chad is 438 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 2: telling Laurie originally that his wife's going to die and 439 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 2: he's going to end up in Arizona with her. And 440 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 2: then the story changes to you need to move to 441 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 2: Idaho to be near me, and don't worry. I know 442 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 2: I'm married, but Tammy is going to die. The Lord 443 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 2: has told me that Tammy will die. So Laurie is 444 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 2: kind of waiting to see when Tammy's going to die 445 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 2: and it's not happening. And finally Chad tells her, you 446 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 2: need to move up here. Just trust it. You need 447 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 2: to move up here and so Laurie packs up everything 448 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 2: and moves to Idaho. Interesting side note, Laurie hates the cold. 449 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 2: From what everybody tells me. She loved Arizona, she loved Hawaii. 450 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 2: You see a lot of photos of her before she's 451 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 2: in jail, she's in crop top. She loves the heat. Rexburg, 452 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 2: Idaho is not the hottest place in the world. It 453 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 2: is very cold, the winters are long. It's not a 454 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 2: place for her, so it's not like she wanted to 455 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 2: move there for fun. So between that time she's getting 456 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 2: ready for the move, she moves up to Idaho. I 457 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 2: believe it was the last week of August. Enrolls JJ 458 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 2: in school. Tyler dies first. JJ dies a few weeks later. 459 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 2: And then one day I get a call from the 460 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 2: owner of a storage unit facility and he says, Lorie 461 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 2: Valo came in here weeks before and got a unit, 462 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 2: and she hasn't paid the bill. Do you want to 463 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 2: see what's in the unit? And she had signed the 464 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 2: contract LORII Ryan, which was another interesting thing because that 465 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 2: was the name of her third husband. So I don't 466 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 2: know if she was trying to divert away her real name. 467 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but we went in there and in 468 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 2: that storage unit, it's JJ scooter, it's photos, it's all 469 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 2: these personal belongings that you wondered why she would have 470 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 2: abandoned it. So they got this unit. During all that 471 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 2: time they're storing stuff. Tammy then dies, They go to 472 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 2: Hawaii and get married. 473 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,719 Speaker 3: What is the sequence of events? How does this happen? 474 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: And do the kids complain at all about zombies beforehand? 475 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: Because I had read that Tyleie had had a sense 476 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: that something was going on. 477 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, JJ was on the autism spectrum and has 478 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 2: some special needs. So as far as him complaining, I 479 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 2: don't know if he how aware he was, But Tylie 480 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 2: was aware. And people have told me that Tylie and 481 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 2: Laurie did not have the best relationship because was always 482 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 2: on her phone, one of her many phones. She had 483 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 2: four or five phones. One was dedicated just to Chad 484 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 2: and she heard all this zombie talk and dark and 485 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 2: light and all that. And one day, according to a friend, 486 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 2: Laurie had said that Tylie was a zombie and Tylie 487 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 2: said something like, oh no, not me, Mom, not me. 488 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 2: So I don't know if Tyler was aware. Tylie was 489 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,239 Speaker 2: fiercely protective of JJ, she kind of acted like his 490 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 2: mom during all of this, loved JJ. And what we 491 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 2: still don't know to this day is their actual cause 492 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 2: of deaths how they died. We know how their bodies 493 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 2: were found in a horrific manner. We may never know 494 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 2: in Tylie's case, because her body was dismembered and then 495 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 2: burned severely, and the police were literally going through dirt, 496 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 2: sifting through it looking for parts of her body, not 497 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 2: to get too graphic, to try to confirm her identity. 498 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,239 Speaker 2: So Tylie probably had an awareness. I don't know if 499 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 2: she thought she was going to die, and I don't 500 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 2: know all of the beliefs that she believed the wrong 501 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 2: with her mother, but she may have known that she wasn't, 502 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 2: you know, in her mom's good graces. The other thing 503 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 2: is she's seventeen, and a lot of teenagers argue with 504 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 2: their moms, so maybe it was just one of those 505 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 2: teenage phase things that they looked at. 506 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: And Alex Cox is still alive at this point, right 507 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: is he involved with this? 508 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 2: Alex Cox's phone kings at Chad da Bell's home his 509 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 2: yard the day that they believed the bodies were buried, 510 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 2: So yes, he's very much alive. He's very much involved. 511 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 2: He's with them daily. He moved to Idaho from Rexburg 512 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 2: and got a townhouse in the same facility, So yeah, 513 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 2: he's with them this this whole time he's with Laurie, 514 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 2: meets Chad, and then he gets married to a woman 515 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 2: in Las Vegas around Thanksgiving time and he dies three 516 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 2: weeks later. 517 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 3: But not suspicious? Is that right? 518 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 2: By all accounts from authorities, it was natural causes. But 519 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 2: in police recordings that his new wife said the day 520 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 2: before he died, he said, if anything happens to me, 521 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 2: I've got a I believe it was a safe in 522 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 2: the closet that's got money and a gun, so you 523 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 2: know it's there. So it may be the only coincidental 524 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 2: thing in all of this, or we may never know. 525 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: So they go missing and Tammy dies of natural causes 526 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 1: in October and December is when the alarms are sounded, 527 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 1: and this is when they start searching for the couple. 528 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 3: Is that right? 529 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 2: Yeah? I guess you could say that there weren't like 530 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 2: official search parties that were out and looking back now, 531 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 2: police were well aware that they were in Hawaii. They 532 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 2: just didn't want to publicly announce that because then Chad 533 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 2: and Laurie could have taken off. They had eyes on 534 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 2: him in Hawaii. We got a tip one day in 535 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 2: our newsroom right after Christmas from an anonymous person I 536 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 2: still don't know who they are to this day. If 537 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 2: you're here, thank you that said here's where Chad and 538 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 2: Laurie are with a GPS coordinate to your newsroom wow 539 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 2: on Facebook. So we figured they were in Hawaii. I 540 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: went to the police and said, we're going to go 541 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 2: to Hawaii and try to find them. 542 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 3: Wow. 543 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 2: The police said, can you police hold off a little, 544 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 2: because again we don't want to spoop them. If you 545 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 2: hold off, we can kind of give you a heads 546 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 2: up on when the timing is right. So we did, 547 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 2: and I believe it was two or three weeks later. 548 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 2: I get a call one day, it was on a Thursday, 549 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 2: that said you might want to buy a plane ticket 550 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 2: for Hawaii, And I said when, and they said tomorrow, 551 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 2: and don't tell anybody. And so he was an intern 552 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 2: with us at the time. My colleague and I got 553 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: a plane the next day. I did tell my wife, 554 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 2: but I didn't tell other people in our newsroom, and 555 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 2: we didn't know what was going to happen. We had 556 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 2: no clue. They just said get there. We got there, 557 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 2: We landed. The next day, I touched base with a 558 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 2: police contact and he said, nothing's going to happen today. 559 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 2: So just kind of lay low on the island. Nothing's 560 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 2: going to happen. And so a couple hours later I 561 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 2: get another call and that says we're going to have 562 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 2: to speed things up here, and I said, oh, it 563 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 2: was something going on. He goes, something's right now, and 564 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 2: at that moment, a police car. We have it on video. 565 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 2: We've actually never released a video, but I'm on the phone. 566 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,719 Speaker 2: A police car is following a black SUV. That was theirs. 567 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 2: They were right in front of us. So I didn't 568 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 2: know that though, and I said, I told her a driver, 569 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 2: I might just follow them whoever that is, and if 570 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 2: it's not then we'll leave. And sure enough it was them. Wow. 571 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 2: So we beat some of the detectives there and we 572 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 2: get out of the car and for the first time 573 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 2: I'm seeing Lori Valo twenty feet in front of me 574 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 2: and Chad Daybell and they looked so different. They looked 575 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 2: Chad had lost weight, his hair was done, he was 576 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 2: in shorts and a T shirt, Lurie was wearing an 577 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 2: outfit like she'd been to a yoga class or been 578 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 2: on the beach. 579 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 3: Sure in vacation. 580 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 2: They were vacationing. They were enjoying their Sunday afternoon and 581 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 2: appeared to have no worries other than Louri looked pretty mad. 582 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 2: She looked pretty upset that she had been stopped. 583 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 3: So they cover what happens. 584 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 2: We didn't know at that point. Again, we were there 585 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 2: getting video, wondering what's going on, and so we hung 586 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 2: out and finally an officer came over and said, we're 587 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 2: not going to arrest them. We are going to seize 588 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 2: the car. We have a search warrant on the car, 589 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 2: and we have a search warrant on their town home, 590 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 2: which was about ten miles north. And I said, okay, 591 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 2: So he goes, so when we're done, you can do 592 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 2: whatever you want. I said, so wait, they're not going 593 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 2: to have a car and he said no, And I said, 594 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 2: and I can go talk to them. They won't have 595 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 2: anywhere to go. This is perfect, I mean, where are 596 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 2: they going to go? What I was hoping is they'd say, sure, 597 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 2: we'll sit down and talk with you. And so one 598 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 2: of the detectives said, when we're done, I'm going to 599 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 2: give you a sign like this, and for those listening, 600 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 2: it was kind of like we're cutting loose sign. And 601 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 2: he was across the way from me. So we're sitting 602 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 2: there where our cameras rolling. I see the sign. I 603 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 2: tell my photographer. I'm like, let's go. And that's when 604 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 2: we approached Laurie and Chad and they were looking at 605 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 2: some paperwork and I introduced who I was, and I 606 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 2: think for the next three and a half minutes, they 607 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 2: rapidly walked as I asked them question after question after question, 608 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 2: and they responded to one. She responded to one. I said, 609 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 2: people around the world are praying for you. They're praying 610 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 2: for your kids, and she said, that's great. 611 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 3: I saw that in forty eight hours. I just watched 612 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 3: it a couple of days ago, and I was like, 613 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 3: that's Nate. 614 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 2: I know that guy. 615 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 3: So let's back up a second. 616 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: Just because I'm a journalist interested in your reaction, you 617 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: had to have taken a second to say, why don't 618 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: I go ahead and jump on this, because instead of 619 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,959 Speaker 1: listening to the police and waiting, because you were taking 620 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: a risk that this source had pinged. God knows how 621 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: many other people on Facebook giving them the same coordinate, 622 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: So you could have been scooped really easily. 623 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 3: Why did you wait. 624 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 2: Well, one, because we weren't sure if the tip was legit. Okay, 625 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 2: we could have flown to Hawaii and nothing could have happened, 626 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 2: So there was the expense. We also didn't want to 627 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 2: burn the police department because we knew this was going 628 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 2: to be a big story. We didn't want to mess 629 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 2: up the investigation either. We would hate to go and 630 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 2: confront them and then all of a sudden, Chad Laurier 631 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 2: in Mexico. So we wanted to maintain the working relationship 632 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 2: we did have. We were working with Dayline at the time. 633 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,239 Speaker 2: We've been with them this whole time and they've been 634 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 2: great to work with. They did send up producer to 635 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 2: Hawaii undercover to keep an eye on it, wow, So 636 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 2: we did have someone on the ground that was able 637 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 2: to give us updates, like just in case something happened, 638 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 2: so we weren't completely in the dark. And again we 639 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 2: didn't know if they were going to arrest them or 640 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 2: anything like that. So what I later found out is 641 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 2: they had planned to go to their home the next 642 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 2: morning and serve a search warrant, like at six in 643 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,239 Speaker 2: the morning when it would have been dark, and what 644 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 2: we probably would have got for that video is a 645 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 2: knock on the door, a warrant, and a slam. So 646 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 2: the day before, Chad and Laurie were on the move 647 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 2: from their house in this car and they were pulled 648 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 2: over right by the airport, and there were some that 649 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 2: were concerned they were going to catch a flight because 650 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 2: they withdrawn a bunch of money, which if you saw 651 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 2: in the video, she had a bag of money that 652 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 2: I asked her about. So that I think the police 653 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 2: were like, we got to serve this now in case 654 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 2: they leave town. So it worked out good for us. 655 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 2: I mean, the timing was lined up beautifully, and like 656 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 2: I said, I was really hoping they'd sit down and 657 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 2: talk with me. You don't want to ever ambush anybody, 658 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 2: but if that's what it takes to get answers, and 659 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 2: then Kate, it blew up. I went to bed and 660 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 2: I woke up. I think there were like three hundred 661 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 2: and ninety emails. Every news agency in the world had 662 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 2: called and they were all coming to Hawaii. And then 663 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 2: I'm trying to think, how do we stay on top 664 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 2: of the story. Yeah, And here's an interesting thing. I 665 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 2: don't know if I if I've shared this publicly, but 666 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 2: the day we were set to leave Hawaii, two or 667 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 2: three days later, we're packing, somebody in Hawaii called our 668 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 2: newsroom in Idaho and said, Chad and Laurie just checked 669 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 2: into the Marriotte and they had plane tickets sticking out 670 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,719 Speaker 2: of their bags and we saw an M on the ticket. 671 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 3: Who are these people who are calling this great? 672 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 2: This guy worked at the resort. 673 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 3: Oh wow. 674 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 2: So I'm headed to the airport wondering if we should 675 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 2: rebook our flight to go stack out this hotel, wondering 676 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,719 Speaker 2: where are they going on their plane ticket that starts 677 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 2: with an M Mexico Maui. We end up telling our 678 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 2: Dateline colleagues to go to the hotel. We get on 679 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 2: the plane. I don't know if you've seen the date Line. 680 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 2: The next they staked out that every entrance to that 681 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 2: hotel for the next twelve hours, and Chad and Laurie 682 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 2: left to go to the beach and Dateline was there. 683 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 2: And they've shown that video of them in their swimsuits. 684 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: So it turns out they were tickets to Maui and 685 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 2: a few days later they from Kawai to Maui, they 686 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 2: visited a bank, and then they flew back to Kawai. 687 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,280 Speaker 2: And people in Maui and Kawai are the nicest people 688 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 2: in the world. Because I had people sending me photos 689 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 2: of their every move on the plane, drinking a sprite 690 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,760 Speaker 2: at the airport. There was a woman in the rental 691 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 2: car facility named Ursula who called me and did an 692 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 2: interview with me, and she said she went up to 693 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 2: Laurie and said, why don't you tell people where your 694 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 2: kids are? And Laurie wouldn't say anything. They were hanging 695 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 2: signs on the island saying where are the children? Wow. 696 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 2: I mean it took off, and it was citizen journalists, 697 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 2: citizen people that really helped advance the story so that 698 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 2: we could post updates. 699 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: You know, I'm often asked about that in interviews, whether 700 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: citizen journalists and the armchair salutes, you know, every moniker 701 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: you can think of of people who are not professionally 702 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: trained to do this, whether they're helpful or hurtful, And 703 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: of course the answer is both, And it sounds like 704 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: in this case they were. 705 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 2: Very helpful, yes, But we also got a lot of 706 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 2: people who were passionate, have their theories that were clogging 707 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 2: up our phone lines. 708 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 3: It's guided maybeah. 709 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 2: I know their intentions are good, very good, especially when 710 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 2: the kids were missing. They had ideas about where the 711 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 2: kids were, and I would forward them all to the 712 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 2: police anonymously. I'd say, we got this tip, I want 713 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 2: to check it out. So yes, I would say. Overall though, 714 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 2: very helpful and people that care, people that cared about 715 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 2: these kids. I can't tell you how many came up 716 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 2: to me and were thanking me for going to Hawaii. 717 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 2: I was just doing my job. I mean, I obviously 718 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 2: care about them too, but people that were really invested 719 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 2: in the story. 720 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: How long after when they were brought back do they 721 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: find the children in their bodies? 722 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 2: Lauri and Chad came back in March of twenty twenty. 723 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 2: The bodies were found in June in June June, so 724 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 2: March April four months. 725 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 3: So they were holding them on. 726 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 2: What Laurie was arrested on. Well, they went that day 727 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 2: in Hawaii. They gave her an order that she had 728 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 2: to produce the kids within five days in Idaho, and 729 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 2: she didn't do that, so they were able to get 730 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,879 Speaker 2: her on that and extradite her back Chad. They never 731 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,879 Speaker 2: arrested Chad just came back on his own, moved into 732 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 2: his house and called Laurie daily. And then the police 733 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,240 Speaker 2: finally got some data back from the FBI that pinged 734 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 2: Alex's phone there at the house, and they got text 735 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,399 Speaker 2: messages of Chad and Laurie talking about a pet cemetery 736 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 2: at his house. The police went to Tammy da Bell's 737 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 2: family and said, are you guys aware of a pet cemetery? 738 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 2: And sure enough they said, yeah, it's in this location 739 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 2: in the backyard, and that's right where they found the bodies. 740 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: So, is it at this point too late to exhume 741 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 1: Tammy's body if this natural causes thing? 742 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 2: Is no. They assumed her body three months after she died. 743 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 2: It was December, the same day Alex Cox died or 744 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,280 Speaker 2: the day before. Right there around that time they assumed 745 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:43,879 Speaker 2: her body. They did a test, they put her back 746 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:44,839 Speaker 2: in the ground the same day. 747 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,720 Speaker 3: Nothing. They couldn't find anything. 748 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 2: They have not publicly released the autopsy results, but sources 749 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 2: have told me she died from apphyxiation, and her kids 750 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 2: have gone on national television and said they have been 751 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 2: told that by detectives. 752 00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: So what is the thought here, what are we up 753 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: to now? I feel like it changes every single day. 754 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 2: It changes does The latest is that Laurie was found 755 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 2: incompetent for trial. She went to a state hospital for 756 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,280 Speaker 2: ten months. She was restored to competency. She appeared in court. 757 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 2: She did not enter a police so the court entered 758 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 2: one on her behalf of not guilty. Her trial is 759 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 2: set for October. Chad's trial is set for January. The 760 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 2: trials right now are still conjoined, so the judge'll either 761 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 2: need to separate them or they'll have to change some timing. 762 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 2: But within a year finally there should be some sort 763 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 2: of trial. 764 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 3: Is Idaho a death penalty state? 765 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 2: They are seeking the death penalty on Chad day Bell 766 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,800 Speaker 2: prosecutors have sixty days from the date she was arraigned 767 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 2: to announce if they will seek it on her. I 768 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 2: imagine they will simply because they can take it off 769 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 2: the table later for negotiating, but they can't put it 770 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 2: back on. 771 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: And are we not getting any information out of Chad 772 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: or Laurie at this point? 773 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:53,879 Speaker 3: Are they not talking to anyone ever? 774 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 2: They're talking to their attorneys, and Laurie is still madly 775 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,439 Speaker 2: in love with Chad. Wants the trial to be held 776 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:09,320 Speaker 2: together so that they can hold hand in the courtroom. 777 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 1: On the next episode of Wicked, Words Stephen Davis on 778 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,360 Speaker 1: a hostage crisis and PTSD. 779 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 4: Why they were landed. You is being hidden and the 780 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 4: actual suffering is being hidden. And some of them had 781 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 4: ridiculous experiences whereby they'd be at dinner party, You're talking 782 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 4: to friends and that's say, oh, you were one of 783 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 4: the human shields. Ah, yeah, nothing much happened to you, 784 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 4: did it. Imagine that, you know, you don't even get 785 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 4: your trauma recognized. 786 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: My new book, All That Is Wicked is available for 787 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,760 Speaker 1: pre order now, including the audiobook. All That Is Wicked 788 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: is based on our first season of tenfold War Wicked. 789 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: You might think you know the whole story of killer 790 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,919 Speaker 1: Edward Rulof's crimes, but there's so much more. My book 791 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: American Sherlock is also available. This has been an exactly 792 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: right tenfold more media production. The producer is Alexismirosi, Our 793 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 1: mixer is Ryo Baum, Our sound designer is Andrew Epen. 794 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: Curtis Heath is. Our composer Nick Toga did the artwork. 795 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: Ilsabrink designed the website. The Executive producers are Georgia Hartstark, 796 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: Karen Kilgarriff, and Danielle Kramer. Follow Wicked Words on Instagram 797 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,839 Speaker 1: and Facebook at tenfold more wicked and on Twitter at 798 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: tenfold more and If you know of a historical crime 799 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: that could use some attention, especially if it happened in 800 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: your family, email us at info at tenfoldmore wicked dot com. 801 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: We'll also take your suggestions for true crime authors for 802 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: Wicked Words