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Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us here on the fastest show
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Speaker 2: News Live. That's where all the cool kids are. I'm
Speaker 2: told that's where the growth and the engagement is. So
Speaker 2: get on YouTube and find us there. As we prepare
Speaker 2: to welcome our global television audience to the conversation, we
Speaker 2: have news on the doge. This is a pretty big number,
Speaker 2: or if you heard me mention this a little while ago,
Speaker 2: remember there was a big buyout offer that went to
Speaker 2: every federal worker across the country, now accepted by more
Speaker 2: than twenty thousand federal workers. They're not all here, they're
Speaker 2: spread around the country. That's about one percent of the
Speaker 2: federal workforce. If it sounds like a big number. And
Speaker 2: the last time he was here, we talked about the
Speaker 2: idea of the doge the concept with now the former
Speaker 2: governor of New Hampshire, Republican Chris Sanunu. He was with
Speaker 2: us in the closing days of his administration, having written
Speaker 2: an important op ed that we talked about before Elon
Speaker 2: musk Ever got to Washington. Now we're all here and
Speaker 2: he's with us, back at the table. I still call
Speaker 2: you governor, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, look, why won't I be here?
Speaker 4: This is apparently where all the cool kids hang out.
Speaker 4: As you said, they heard that this is this is
Speaker 4: the place to be.
Speaker 2: You couldn't wait to come back. I love you. Are
Speaker 2: you going to be in Washington a lot? I thought
Speaker 2: your whole point was staying away from Washington.
Speaker 4: No, I'm the I'm Washington's evil cynic. I come down
Speaker 4: and remind Washington why they should do more work and
Speaker 4: get more stuff done.
Speaker 3: They all go crazy.
Speaker 2: Well, so it's not just the doge, it's the coache.
Speaker 2: You call it that in New Hampshire, right.
Speaker 3: There is what's commission a new governor.
Speaker 4: Governor as has created a localized version of it, which good.
Speaker 5: Look.
Speaker 4: Efficiency is one of the rarest efficiency in government, like
Speaker 4: those are like oil and water typically, so when you
Speaker 4: can force them together.
Speaker 3: What happens.
Speaker 4: What you save money, you create, you create opportunities for
Speaker 4: better connection with what's happening out there with your departments.
Speaker 3: It's hard. I mean, the thing drives me crazy lately.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you've been seeing it on some
Speaker 4: of these news reports about DOGE. Well, can you believe
Speaker 4: they're going to cut money here and cut money there? Yeah,
Speaker 4: we're like thirty plus trillion in debt. That's real money.
Speaker 4: And by the way, the government doesn't owe that money.
Speaker 4: You do, and I do, and everyone listening here does.
Speaker 4: So that's real money. It has to be paid. That
Speaker 4: you got to start somewhere. It's not going to come
Speaker 4: without a little bit of pain, financial pain. It's not
Speaker 4: going to be an easy process. But if you plan ahead,
Speaker 4: you can make that off ramp as smooth as possible
Speaker 4: for the citizens of the country.
Speaker 2: Well, because you know, people are upset not about so
Speaker 2: much the idea of cutting spending, and someone's always going
Speaker 2: to be upset if you're cutting a program or whatever
Speaker 2: it is that they're interested in. But they seem to
Speaker 2: see Elon Musk run wild. You know, they had a
Speaker 2: couple of security guards fired at USA. They got into
Speaker 2: great error of secure areas of the building. Shut it down.
Speaker 2: He's got the keys to the treasury payment system now,
Speaker 2: which means he has all of our personal information, and
Speaker 2: he's like a quasi government official. Does that make you uncomfortable?
Speaker 4: It should, yes, As the guy from the Livery or
Speaker 4: Die state, yes, it always makes me a bit uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: But look in when you have a financial crisis of
Speaker 4: this level, and believe me, guys, this country does have
Speaker 4: a real financial, long term financial crisis. I'd rather have
Speaker 4: them go a little more aggressive than not do much
Speaker 4: at all, because we've had twenty years of not doing
Speaker 4: much at all. Right, So if he goes a little
Speaker 4: more aggressive and then they have to back off a
Speaker 4: few things. Oh wait, you know we got rid of
Speaker 4: this position in that department. We should roll that in.
Speaker 4: We should find a way to re establish it. Fine,
Speaker 4: but then the onus is on the government to justify
Speaker 4: why they need to re establish it. And if they
Speaker 4: can do that, it works. So it's gonna be bumpy.
Speaker 4: They're going very very fast, which by the way, is
Speaker 4: another good thing. Typically government doesn't move fast in anything.
Speaker 4: They're acknowledging that this is very serious stuff. They want
Speaker 4: to move quickly. I think it gives everyone a lot
Speaker 4: of time repidation that Elon's at the head of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 4: I like the fact that the guy isn't completely with government,
Speaker 4: so he's not an insider in the Beltway type guy.
Speaker 4: He's so wealthy, I just don't believe he has any
Speaker 4: financial interest in this. People will disagree with me on
Speaker 4: that all day. But the guys were four hundred billion.
Speaker 4: What's he gonna do make another couple of billion?
Speaker 3: That's not his mission.
Speaker 4: He's a big picture, big project type guy, and he's
Speaker 4: willing to take it on. Is he going to do
Speaker 4: everything perfectly? Heck no, He's going to make a lot
Speaker 4: of mistakes. But they've probably already had a few bumps already.
Speaker 4: But a few bumps is okay. If at the end
Speaker 4: of the day, we're finding a pathway to cut saving money,
Speaker 4: you know, allowing the economy to be fruitful and not
Speaker 4: just lean on a giant bureaucracy out of Washington that
Speaker 4: doesn't really know or care about what's happening in the
Speaker 4: rest of the country.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, some would say, okay, great, but we've
Speaker 2: got to do it right. Bring him up and have
Speaker 2: him confirmed by the Senate. Let's do a background check.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I wouldn't mind that much. I don't know
Speaker 4: how long. I mean, this is an eighteen month gig.
Speaker 4: If they want to go through a confirmation process, that
Speaker 4: I would have been fine with that. I think he
Speaker 4: would have gotten through just fine. You know, it seems
Speaker 4: like even some of the other more controversial confirmation picks,
Speaker 4: they're actually doing better than I thought.
Speaker 3: Right, Susan Collins is now on.
Speaker 2: Board with kelse I look like the clean RFK Junior
Speaker 2: Ye Committee board. Absolutely, So it's just a matter of
Speaker 2: getting this to the floor. At this point, I mentioned
Speaker 2: the coache what is it the.
Speaker 3: Commit mission, not the department or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: Don't these in concepts sort of make the argument that
Speaker 2: our system of government is broken, that you can't trust lawmakers,
Speaker 2: that you have to have an outside entity to make
Speaker 2: it work.
Speaker 4: Right, I don't think it's broken, and I don't think
Speaker 4: it's a lack of trust in terms of what their
Speaker 4: motives are. I do think at least at the state level.
Speaker 4: Why I like this coach concept. At the different state levels,
Speaker 4: there's much more accountability to what you're doing that in
Speaker 4: that case of New Hampshire.
Speaker 3: They're doing a commission, which I like.
Speaker 4: It's short term, led by business leaders holding a lot
Speaker 4: of accountability within the departments at a time when again,
Speaker 4: we have very little debt in New Hampshire, we have
Speaker 4: no taxes in New Hampshire. We're very fiscally sound in
Speaker 4: New Hampshire. But I think they're planning for what is
Speaker 4: likely going to be.
Speaker 3: A couple of years.
Speaker 4: It's not gonna be a recession, but it's definitely gonna
Speaker 4: be a bit of a flattening of the exponential growth
Speaker 4: we've seen in twenty twenty one, twenty two. I'm sorry
Speaker 4: twenty one, twenty two, twenty three with inflation. I don't
Speaker 4: think inflation is really going away. I think a lot
Speaker 4: of if you look at what Chairman Powell is as
Speaker 4: indicated on that and what the Fed looks like they're
Speaker 4: going to do. So they're just saying, let's, at least
Speaker 4: at the local level, we have to be smart, plan ahead,
Speaker 4: make some tough cuts today to have opportunity tomorrow. Washington
Speaker 4: doesn't think like that, which is why they have such
Speaker 4: massive debt and the rest of the States don't.
Speaker 2: Interesting Donald Trump making good on threats of tariffs this week. Interesting,
Speaker 2: none of them are in effect other than China, because
Speaker 2: he pulled back on both Mexico and Canada following these
Speaker 2: eleventh hour calls. People talk about border states. You ran
Speaker 2: one northern border, Yeah, talk to me about the urgency
Speaker 2: to shut down our northern border when it comes to
Speaker 2: things like fentanyl. We understand it was forty three pounds
Speaker 2: across the border as opposed to twenty one thousand for
Speaker 2: the Mexican border. Do we need ten troops? Did you
Speaker 2: have that many illegals?
Speaker 6: So?
Speaker 4: New Hampshire's part of what they called the Swanton sector.
Speaker 4: I don't want to get to wonky for your crowd,
Speaker 4: but it's basically Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont into eastern New York.
Speaker 4: We were the only state up there that really put
Speaker 4: our own dollars because we couldn't get federal help from
Speaker 4: the National Department of Homeland Security. They refuse to give
Speaker 4: us what they call a delegation agreement, which basically says, hey,
Speaker 4: we're going to empower your team to do what we
Speaker 4: can't do. And they had taken our border patrol agents
Speaker 4: from the northern border and sent them to the southern border.
Speaker 4: Because the crisis was so big there, which exacerbated the problem.
Speaker 4: Now I created a law enforcement initiative put a couple
Speaker 4: million bucks up there, which basically coordinated all of our
Speaker 4: law enforcement on our side with the Canadians on their side.
Speaker 3: Very successful. The surrounding states.
Speaker 4: Didn't do it, so it wasn't we didn't see Once
Speaker 4: we did that, we didn't see almost any cross.
Speaker 2: Because they were going to Vermont.
Speaker 4: Quickly, the word got out in Quebec, do not go
Speaker 4: to New Hampshire. They take this stuff seriously. They would
Speaker 4: go to Vermont, New York and especially Buffalo. They come
Speaker 4: through what they call the Buffalo Sector trying to get
Speaker 4: to New York. Now, is the issue of fentanyl real,
Speaker 4: Absolutely it is. I mean we were at the tip
Speaker 4: of the spear for the fentanyl crisis.
Speaker 3: The border crossings are very real.
Speaker 4: The combined number of board and crossings over the last
Speaker 4: three years on the northern border, just in the last
Speaker 4: year we're ten times that of all the previous years
Speaker 4: added up. So it's not the southern border, but it
Speaker 4: is growing exponentially. There's a few different pieces that probably
Speaker 4: didn't get covered. Canada has agreements with certain countries that
Speaker 4: allowed them to basically fly in visa free and those
Speaker 4: folks would get off the plane in Montreal and Toronto
Speaker 4: and walk right over the border. That's what Trump is
Speaker 4: really trying to seal up the coordination with law enforcement,
Speaker 4: and it's having an effect.
Speaker 3: It's effective.
Speaker 4: Now it's going to hurt, right, It's going to hurt
Speaker 4: certain businesses across the country, especially in New Hampshire.
Speaker 3: There's no question, but I believe Trump tariffs are the security.
Speaker 3: The terrafs know the security's gray.
Speaker 4: The terrafts are going to be I think they're doing
Speaker 4: them fast, hard and early because they know it's going
Speaker 4: to be a bandy that has to get ripped off
Speaker 4: to find that resolution. And if they have to take
Speaker 4: some pain for a couple months to get to where
Speaker 4: they want to get long term, obviously it's smarter to
Speaker 4: do that earlier than.
Speaker 2: Think about lumber, your home builders, your farmers, what.
Speaker 4: Are they softwood? Maple syrup. We have the best maple
Speaker 4: syrup in the world. I'd just like to brag about
Speaker 4: that a little bit. Sorry, Vermont takes second place, but
Speaker 4: you know, a lot of the equipment to make our
Speaker 4: maple syrup, which is a huge industry for US all
Speaker 4: comes from Canada, right, So there's a lot of things
Speaker 4: that cross it. There are products that will cross the
Speaker 4: US Canadian border six times before it actually gets complete
Speaker 4: to vehicles, vehicles, trucks, So you're people.
Speaker 2: Pounding this tariff into triple digits. At that point, it.
Speaker 3: Can be a real problem.
Speaker 4: But I do believe if it gets us to a
Speaker 4: better sense of border security, a better partnership with our
Speaker 4: ally Canada and ultimately with Mexico, all the better.
Speaker 3: You have to do it fast and hard.
Speaker 4: We've had no management of this for four years, so
Speaker 4: he's going fast and hard to kind of make up
Speaker 4: a little bit for what just hasn't been done.
Speaker 2: You go with Grade B. Somebody told me recently Grade
Speaker 2: B tastes better than Grade A seriuce to England, and
Speaker 2: I never heard that before.
Speaker 4: It's a little lighter, great a maple, sir, I didn't
Speaker 4: think we're gonna get into that great a MAPLESRP is
Speaker 4: a little darker. I think it's a little later on
Speaker 4: in the season, but Grade B I like it lighter.
Speaker 4: It's a forty to one. If you tap forty gallons
Speaker 4: of SAP, you get about one gallon of serp.
Speaker 3: I'm more of a twenty to one guy. I like
Speaker 3: it a little lighter, but that's.
Speaker 2: A different See. This is the kind of stuff things
Speaker 2: you learn on Blue They're out of office, all right,
Speaker 2: So just one more for you here. You look south
Speaker 2: of the border to Boston, Michelle Wou.
Speaker 3: I love when we say New Hampshire.
Speaker 2: When we say south of the l we're talking border
Speaker 2: states here, Michelle Wou, the darling of Massachusetts or Boston.
Speaker 2: Liberals incomes Joshua Craft, another Democrat, but maybe one Chris
Speaker 2: Sanunu would be more comfortable with running the city above.
Speaker 4: So I'm going to be super polite and political and
Speaker 4: say when it comes to Michelle Wu, I think the
Speaker 4: term is lunatic. Okay, yeah, I think she's the most
Speaker 4: anti business, pro government, big spender, big taxer that you've
Speaker 4: ever seen, to the point where it has been out
Speaker 4: so many businesses out of Boston.
Speaker 3: New Hampshire's flourishing.
Speaker 4: They're all coming to the tax free suburb of Boston,
Speaker 4: which is called New Hampshire, right, And I want Boston
Speaker 4: to be strong. I want Boston to be it's an
Speaker 4: economic driver for all of New England.
Speaker 3: And what she.
Speaker 4: Along with more heal you have really done is just
Speaker 4: a travesty. If whether if Joshua Craft can come in
Speaker 4: and is willing to put himself on the line, and look,
Speaker 4: I've been in politics.
Speaker 3: It stinks.
Speaker 4: It's very is a lot of exposure. It's tough on
Speaker 4: your family go through all this scrutiny.
Speaker 3: He does.
Speaker 4: He doesn't need the money, he doesn't need to do it,
Speaker 4: but he loves his state and God bless it.
Speaker 3: I'd be behind him one hundred ten percent. There you go.
Speaker 3: I hope you're listening in New England as a whole.
Speaker 6: And he made the.
Speaker 2: Announcement in Dorchester this morning. I guess we're off for
Speaker 2: the races here.
Speaker 3: I'm behind him one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: All right, Grade B, don't forget that. I hope you're
Speaker 2: going to come back often to the extent that you
Speaker 2: can hold your nose and come to Washington.
Speaker 3: I love it. If in this room we're doing okay,
Speaker 3: very well.
Speaker 2: The far Republican governor of New Hampshire a lot to
Speaker 2: talk about. As always with Chris Sanunu on the fastest
Speaker 2: show in politics.
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Speaker 7: We want to go now to Capitol Hill, where a
Speaker 7: lot of these conversations are ongoing, and pleased to stay
Speaker 7: joining us on Balance of Power here on Bloomberg TV
Speaker 7: and Radio's Republican Senator Bill Haggerty of Tennessee. Senator, welcome back,
Speaker 7: and there's obviously much we'd like to discuss with you,
Speaker 7: including your new stable coin legislation. But if we could
Speaker 7: first begin with tariffs, as that has dominated the news
Speaker 7: cycle in the last several days, how are you viewing
Speaker 7: what President Trump is actually using these levees for. If
Speaker 7: it was just to extract concessions from Canada and Mexico,
Speaker 7: or if this is really about raising revenue to pay
Speaker 7: for tax cuts.
Speaker 6: Well the answer is both. But President Trump was very
Speaker 6: clear when he imposed the rev when he imposed the
Speaker 6: tariffs on Canada and Mexico, that they needed to do
Speaker 6: something dramatic to stop the flow of illegal migrants coming
Speaker 6: into our country, the flow of fentanyl coming into our country.
Speaker 6: The human trafficking that has been the primary and overarching concern,
Speaker 6: and I've made it clear to that people reached out
Speaker 6: to me from both nations that it's clear there's something
Speaker 6: they can do about it. They need to step up,
Speaker 6: and frankly they have. President Trump was clear about what
Speaker 6: he wanted to see happen, and the Mexican government and
Speaker 6: the Canadian government, they're both stepping up to stop the
Speaker 6: flow of fentanyl, to address issues at they're border, to
Speaker 6: maintain border security on their side, and to be better partners.
Speaker 6: That's what he's trying to accomplish, and I think that's
Speaker 6: what he's achieved.
Speaker 2: Well, you're, of course a former diplomat senator, as you
Speaker 2: represented the United States as our ambassador to Canada. So
Speaker 2: it gives you to Japan, forgive me. We've been talking
Speaker 2: about a lot of Canada a lot here in that
Speaker 2: period of time. Now, that gave you a unique view
Speaker 2: on these issues that maybe not all lawmakers have. Are
Speaker 2: tariffs or threats of tariffs, the new form of diplomacy
Speaker 2: in this administration.
Speaker 6: Well, Joe, this is an important piece of context. We've
Speaker 6: talked about it before, but the United States has basically
Speaker 6: the lowest trade weighted tariffs in the world. Access to
Speaker 6: our markets has been extraordinarily easy. There's a historic reason
Speaker 6: for this. For countries like Japan, countries in europehose economies
Speaker 6: were devastated after World War Two, we aggressively made our
Speaker 6: economy open to them so they wouldn't turn toward communism
Speaker 6: and socialism. But we should have time limited that, we
Speaker 6: should have put some sort of GDP per capital limit
Speaker 6: on it, because what we have now are extremely unfair
Speaker 6: and non reciprocal trade terms with many of our trading partners.
Speaker 6: President Trump has been clear he's just trying to bring
Speaker 6: a reciprocity to bear, trying to get us to the
Speaker 6: table with an even deal. A lot of these countries
Speaker 6: that don't want to address this do so because they
Speaker 6: have a better deal now than we do. We're going
Speaker 6: to fix that. President Trump has been clear about it,
Speaker 6: and I'm very pleased to see him take decisive action
Speaker 6: in that regard.
Speaker 7: Well, Senator, if we could leave the diplomatic hat on
Speaker 7: for a moment longer, I do wonder what you make
Speaker 7: of the efforts, or at least on the part of
Speaker 7: Elon Musk, And he says he is the President's buy
Speaker 7: in to dismantle USAID. What does that do to US
Speaker 7: soft power?
Speaker 6: Well, you've got a lot of significant problems at USAI
Speaker 6: D some of the things that have come to bear,
Speaker 6: some of the things that have come to light in
Speaker 6: terms of US taxpayer dollars going to DEI initiatives, transgender
Speaker 6: surgeries in Guatemala, things of this nature. I think the
Speaker 6: American public is shocked, and the fact that we're basically
Speaker 6: taking a pause, taking a very hard look and looking
Speaker 6: at agencies like this that have basically gotten out of control.
Speaker 6: I think the time has come. The American public are
Speaker 6: ready for it. That doesn't mean that we will not
Speaker 6: have aid programs going forward, but you've got Secretary of
Speaker 6: State Marco Rubio taking charge here. He's going to make
Speaker 6: certain that those those AID programs go to advancing US
Speaker 6: interest and not some of these wild eyed exploits that
Speaker 6: the previous administration and administrations prior to that have been
Speaker 6: on the USAID. Again, basically out of control organization. I'm
Speaker 6: glad to see it rained in.
Speaker 2: Well, we've seen some pretty interesting exploits on behalf of
Speaker 2: DOGE and by Elon Musk. It's not just usaid. Of course,
Speaker 2: it's accessing the payment system inside the US Treasury Department. Senator,
Speaker 2: and we understand that Musk is now a special government employee,
Speaker 2: something that emerged in just the last couple of days
Speaker 2: with the Education Department. Now the next target as a
Speaker 2: senator providing advice and consent. Would you like Elon Musk
Speaker 2: to come up to Capitol Hill to endure a confirmation
Speaker 2: hearing since this apparently is a government job.
Speaker 6: Well, the special Government employee classification is about one hundred
Speaker 6: and thirty days. That allows people to come in from
Speaker 6: the outside, often people that are very capable, as is
Speaker 6: Elon Musk, to come in and provide special advice to
Speaker 6: the president. It's a tool that has been used in
Speaker 6: administration's Republican and Democrat. I'm glad to see this sort
Speaker 6: of expertise deployed. Elon Musk obviously knows how to come
Speaker 6: in and streamline operations and make things work more efficiently.
Speaker 6: Look what he did at Twitter, so I'm very pleased
Speaker 6: to see him step in and do this. This doesn't
Speaker 6: require confirmation, it's not that type of position, but he
Speaker 6: is offering his advice and President Trump has been clear
Speaker 6: where he wants to accept the advice. Where he feels
Speaker 6: Elon musk efforts are warranted, he's going to deploy him there.
Speaker 6: I've talked with Elon about what he's doing. I think
Speaker 6: he's got some very creative ideas about bringing much needed
Speaker 6: deficiency and actually getting far higher return on investment for
Speaker 6: the taxpayer dollar.
Speaker 7: But is there a rule for Congress to place or
Speaker 7: to ensure that whatever access he's granted at Treasury, whether
Speaker 7: it's to the payment system specifically or in other cases,
Speaker 7: that it isn't going to interfere with the Treasury's usual
Speaker 7: business of paying bondholders and conducting auctions.
Speaker 6: Well, we certainly have oversight responsibility, Kaylee, we intend to
Speaker 6: fully exercise that. That's not what I've talked with Elon
Speaker 6: about doing. He's looking for efficiencies, ways to do things better,
Speaker 6: to stop doing things that aren't advancing US interest, and
Speaker 6: to do things that double down on things that are
Speaker 6: going to become more and more productive for US taxpayers
Speaker 6: and advance the American cause. It's not unusual at all
Speaker 6: to take a pause to take a hard look in
Speaker 6: survey what's happening inside these agencies. I'm glad that he's
Speaker 6: doing it. I think there's a lot of pear clutching
Speaker 6: going on right now and a lot of expectation that
Speaker 6: something terrible is going to happen. Know in fact, what
Speaker 6: I think is we're going to see is a new
Speaker 6: wave of assistancy come from all of this, and I'm
Speaker 6: looking forward to it.
Speaker 2: Well, just wait for the pear clutching to start. When
Speaker 2: you start debating taxes and reconciliation, Senator, I have to
Speaker 2: ask you about where all this stands, because these were
Speaker 2: supposed to come as a package. Right you'd extend the
Speaker 2: Trump tax cuts, maybe get some of the other things
Speaker 2: that Donald Trump had promised on the campaign trail, and
Speaker 2: offset those with revenue from tariffs that had been promised
Speaker 2: during the campaign as well. We talked to Scott Besson
Speaker 2: about that at length before he was tapped to be
Speaker 2: the Treasury Secretary. With tariffs put aside here, you still
Speaker 2: have to have a debate over taxes, and as the
Speaker 2: House drags its feet on this, I wonder if the
Speaker 2: Senate and your new leader in John Thune, might help
Speaker 2: to lead the way what's about to happen.
Speaker 6: Well, Joe I met with John Thune last night. A
Speaker 6: group of US did. We're continuing to advance the ball
Speaker 6: on this very subject. Again, we know the American public
Speaker 6: expects us to address the tax package and where we're
Speaker 6: going to do that. We have a number of other
Speaker 6: issues that were to address at the same time. How
Speaker 6: we do it from a process standpoint, I'm much less
Speaker 6: concerned about. I think the concern is that we get
Speaker 6: it done quickly, that we get it done efficiently, and
Speaker 6: I'm optimistic that we will get it done despite the
Speaker 6: procedural back and forth between the House and the Senate.
Speaker 6: We're going to get it done and we're very focused
Speaker 6: on it.
Speaker 7: Senator, I'd like to talk about something else you're looking
Speaker 7: to get done in the Senate, and that's new stable
Speaker 7: coin legislation you've introduced alongside Senator's Lummus and jilibrand, calling
Speaker 7: it the Genius Act. And I do wonder about the
Speaker 7: timeline here. Is it your intent that this legislation be
Speaker 7: pushed through before broader market structure legislation, for example, that
Speaker 7: maybe wor could sway through both the Banking and agg
Speaker 7: oriented committees in both chambers.
Speaker 6: Sure, and Kaylee, I'll add Senator Tim Scott that chair
Speaker 6: of the Banking Committee is on this legislation with us.
Speaker 6: We're very excited about it. This is the first step,
Speaker 6: and we're going to do this first before we get
Speaker 6: to broader market structure. But it's going to enable us
Speaker 6: to take a very positive step in the direction of
Speaker 6: ensuring that the United States is a positive environment for
Speaker 6: cryptoc ency technology. Stable Coins is one of these issues
Speaker 6: that I think the United States can be a leader on.
Speaker 6: It's time for us to do so. Look, they're roughly
Speaker 6: twenty eight trillion dollars worth of stable coin transaction is
Speaker 6: taking place right now across the world. We need to
Speaker 6: be a leader here in America. This legislation allows us
Speaker 6: to do that, and I'm extraordinarily optimistic that we're taking
Speaker 6: that lead. It's going to open the door for many
Speaker 6: other positive things in the industry, and I'm so excited
Speaker 6: to have my colleagues on both sides of the aisle
Speaker 6: join me here. This is going to be an important
Speaker 6: first step to opening up the market here in America.
Speaker 2: Senator President Trump is hosting Israeli Prime Minister Benjaminett Yahoo today,
Speaker 2: the first world leader to visit the new presidents in
Speaker 2: this second term. They're going to be holding a news
Speaker 2: conference a little bit later on that we will carry
Speaker 2: if you could put your diplomatic hat back on and
Speaker 2: explore what these two are going to be talking about
Speaker 2: when it comes number one, to a phase two and
Speaker 2: a cease fire. But maybe more importantly, this report by
Speaker 2: the New York Times today that Iran is developing plans
Speaker 2: for a faster cruider weapon based on intelligence here in
Speaker 2: the United States. There are some who suggest this is
Speaker 2: the time now to preemptively strike Iran while it's on
Speaker 2: its heels. Are you one of them?
Speaker 6: Well, Joe, the last thing I'm going to do is
Speaker 6: get ahead of the President and Prime Minister Netanya, who
Speaker 6: on this very important strategic discussion. But I'll say this,
Speaker 6: these two gentlemen are not afraid to point to the
Speaker 6: real cause of all this disruption in the Middle East,
Speaker 6: and that is Iran. They're proxies the Huthis Hamas Hesbola.
Speaker 6: They've been behind all of this disruption. But this is
Speaker 6: Iranian funding, Iranian technology behind all of it. So I
Speaker 6: think the New York Times is right to look at
Speaker 6: the cause here. It finally you will see I think
Speaker 6: both gentlemen today who are meeting talking about Iran as
Speaker 6: the proximate cause for this terrorism, and what we've seen
Speaker 6: is Iran significantly weakened by the actions of the Israeli government.
Speaker 6: What they've done in southern Lebanon, taking Hesbela down, what's
Speaker 6: happened in Syria, I think is significantly exposed and weakened Iran.
Speaker 6: They are not nation that they'd like us to believe
Speaker 6: they are. And I think you'll see a strong and
Speaker 6: united American in Israeli front standing up to iron. But
Speaker 6: I won't go beyond the specifics at that point.
Speaker 2: It's good to have you back, Senator. We'll of course
Speaker 2: be listening when the bilateral news conference begins after five pm.
Speaker 2: Bill Haggerty, the Republican Senator from Tennessee, Kaylee, we covered
Speaker 2: a lot of ground there. We're going to cover a
Speaker 2: lot of ground as well, coming up with our political panel.
Speaker 7: That's right. Lisa Camussa Miller and Jeanie Shanzano will be
Speaker 7: with us as we talk about what's developing in the
Speaker 7: Senate today. Looks like RFK Junior and Tulsea Gabbard may
Speaker 7: be getting confirmed to Trump's cabinet after all, though the
Speaker 7: Gabbard vote hasn't happened yet. We'll look ahead to it
Speaker 7: here on Balance of Power on Bloomberg TV and radio.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
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Speaker 7: Politics and it's often intercept as we're seeing take place
Speaker 7: in vaccine stocks today, after the news that RFK Jor
Speaker 7: got through the Senate Finance Committee as he heads for
Speaker 7: confirmation to be Health and Human Services Secretary. The committee
Speaker 7: voting to advance his nomination to the Senate floor on
Speaker 7: a party line vote, fourteen Republicans said yes, thirteen Democrats
Speaker 7: voted against him, and interestingly, the one Republican we were
Speaker 7: all watching, a medical doctor, Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana,
Speaker 7: ultimately decided to support RFK Junior. And here was his
Speaker 7: explanation for that on the Senate floor.
Speaker 8: It's been a long, intense process, but I've assessed it
Speaker 8: as I would assess a patient as a physician. Ultimately,
Speaker 8: restoring trust in our public health institution is too important,
Speaker 8: and I think mister Kennedy can help get that done.
Speaker 2: Before we start our conversation with our political panel today,
Speaker 2: Jenny Shan say No Bloomberg Politics contributor and Democratic analyst,
Speaker 2: political science professor at Iona University, alongside Lisa Camuso Miller,
Speaker 2: Republican strategistic former r NC communications director. It's great to
Speaker 2: have you both here. You consider, Lisa, what was at
Speaker 2: stake and what Bill Cassidy, a medical doctor, had to
Speaker 2: say about his concerns surrounding RFK Junior his stand on
Speaker 2: any number of issues, beginning with vaccines. You see the
Speaker 2: tweet from Clay Higgins, vote your conscience, Senator or don't
Speaker 2: either way we're watching. Was this the system working or
Speaker 2: just a classic case of a pressure campaign in Washington?
Speaker 9: Yeah, it feels like a pressure campaign, Joe. I mean,
Speaker 9: there's no doubt about that. This is exactly how this
Speaker 9: was going to happen. And also too, you know, there
Speaker 9: are members who are emboldened, right they feel as if
Speaker 9: they can behave this way, they can lodge these kinds
Speaker 9: of threats to one another. It's what's causing a lot
Speaker 9: of dissatisfaction inside the Congress. And so my hope is
Speaker 9: that that's sort of an outlier and that there's a
Speaker 9: more productive conversation that's happening inside the Senate. It certainly
Speaker 9: feels that way based on the comments from the Senator
Speaker 9: as it relates to how he made his decision. Ultimately,
Speaker 9: and this is a nominee that was the recommendation from
Speaker 9: the President. I think a lot of the Senate members
Speaker 9: have decided that it's in their very best interest to
Speaker 9: allow these nominees play out and to make those decisions
Speaker 9: now that they have all the information at hand, and
Speaker 9: we're going to proceed and see how this all goes.
Speaker 7: Well, indeed we will. Jeanie, are you surprised at all
Speaker 7: here that everyone fell in line behind RFK Junior at
Speaker 7: least to this point, knowing we still have to do
Speaker 7: the full vote on the Senate floor and there is
Speaker 7: still some room for dissent there. But is this how
Speaker 7: you saw this going?
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, statistically, they all get through once they
Speaker 10: go through this, you know, the hearings. But let's just
Speaker 10: go back to cas for a minute. He said that
Speaker 10: he was concerned that URFK Junior in the hearing could
Speaker 10: not reflect these science that everybody agrees, which says there
Speaker 10: is absolutely no connection between vaccines and autism that has
Speaker 10: been long debunked. Everybody knows it except RFK Junior. Unwilling
Speaker 10: to say that. Cassidy now says it's okay because he
Speaker 10: got a confirmation from URFK Junior. He's not going to
Speaker 10: change the CDC website, not going to change any of
Speaker 10: the language. Literally two hours ago on Truth Social Donald
Speaker 10: Trump says this twenty years ago, autism and children is
Speaker 10: one in ten thousand. Now it's one in thirty four. Wow,
Speaker 10: something's really wrong. We need Bobby, thank you. How is
Speaker 10: Cassidy planning to control the president who is going out
Speaker 10: and saying things that have been absolutely debunked about the science.
Speaker 10: And that's where Cassidy's claim falls apart. Yeah, he's a
Speaker 10: victim of a pressure campaign. He looks like he's going
Speaker 10: to vote for this on the floor. But what he
Speaker 10: has done as a medical doctor is ensured that a
Speaker 10: longtime vaccine skeptic who won't go in the cotton floor
Speaker 10: and say that this is debunked science, is now going
Speaker 10: to be CDC Director, Health and Human Services Secretary under
Speaker 10: a president two hours ago said it's questionable if vaccines
Speaker 10: cause autism.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is the President has since started truthing about
Speaker 2: the passing of Tiger Wood's mother, Genie. But Lisa, just
Speaker 2: if you could weigh in on that most recent post.
Speaker 2: Twenty years ago, the President wrote Autism and Children was
Speaker 2: one in ten thousand. Now it is one in thirty four. Wow,
Speaker 2: exclamation points. Something's really wrong. We need Bobby, thank you,
Speaker 2: And he did write it. It's signed DJT. What does
Speaker 2: that tell us about the future of vaccine program, particularly
Speaker 2: for kids in America.
Speaker 6: It would be.
Speaker 9: Foolish for any of us to not reflect back on
Speaker 9: the way that the President addressed scenes during the COVID
Speaker 9: pandemic to believe that he would have any healthy understanding
Speaker 9: of how important they are in terms of health development
Speaker 9: in the country.
Speaker 10: It's just feeding.
Speaker 9: Into this overall sense of everything is broken, everything needs
Speaker 9: to be reconsidered, and it's all part of the brand
Speaker 9: that we're seeing coming out of the new administration. And
Speaker 9: so to think we're going back to another way of
Speaker 9: thinking is wrongheaded. Look, I don't like it either, and
Speaker 9: I feel Genie's unhappiness is palpable, and I'm with her.
Speaker 9: This is really super uncomfortable and worrisome. But it's foolish
Speaker 9: for us to sit here and think that this is
Speaker 9: not the way that things are going to go over
Speaker 9: the course of the next four years. They've showed us
Speaker 9: their hand, they showed us who they are, and it's
Speaker 9: time for us to believe them because they're showing us
Speaker 9: the way.
Speaker 7: Well, so let's turn to Tolsty Gabbard then, because we
Speaker 7: haven't yet seen Republicans show up to vote for her,
Speaker 7: they'll have the chance to do so within the hour
Speaker 7: in the Intelligence Committee, where she couldn't afford to lose
Speaker 7: a single Republican. Lisa, and it kind of seems right
Speaker 7: now that she won't after Senator's Todd Young, Susan Collins,
Speaker 7: James Lankford all indicated that they will be supporting her
Speaker 7: nomination for Director of National Intelligence. Joe and I have
Speaker 7: been hearing for weeks that Tulci Gabbard was the most
Speaker 7: endangered of all of Trump's nominees, that potentially does a
Speaker 7: dozen or more Republicans could ultimately vote against her. Does
Speaker 7: this one surprise you, Lisa.
Speaker 9: No, it doesn't, Kaylee. And you know why it doesn't
Speaker 9: surprise me, because the Democrats were happy to see her go,
Speaker 9: and so Republicans are happy to open their arms and
Speaker 9: bring her into the fold. Yes, she is a risk, absolutely,
Speaker 9: but I think the fact that the Democratic Party is
Speaker 9: not standing behind her or saying that she was one
Speaker 9: of theirs, it's all sort of part of this culture
Speaker 9: of whatever was wrong is now right, and it's just
Speaker 9: this sort of fundamental will accept it and will take
Speaker 9: it. It's worrisome though, to people who know the way that
Speaker 9: the process has been conducted over the course of time,
Speaker 9: We've had incredible leaders in these places, especially in the
Speaker 9: intelligence space where Tulsea Gabbert is about to go. It's
Speaker 9: frightening to a lot of people because they know that
Speaker 9: she's not the right candidate for the job. But the
Speaker 9: president was just elected with a strong majority from a
Speaker 9: lot of states that said that they were in favor
Speaker 9: of change, and that's precisely what he is delivering to us.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know your thoughts on this, Genie. Lisa
Speaker 2: saw them all being confirmed, and we still need to
Speaker 2: have House floor I should say, floor votes in the
Speaker 2: Senate on these nominees before it's official. But it does
Speaker 2: appear like the votes are counted. Should we have assumed
Speaker 2: that was the case because of the pressure campaign that
Speaker 2: was coming this, as we keep hearing, is Donald Trump's Congress.
Speaker 10: Yeah, we should have assumed it was the case, because
Speaker 10: that's what history tells us. History tells us you get
Speaker 10: to the floor in terms of getting to committee, and
Speaker 10: you get to your hearing, and you will likely be confirmed.
Speaker 10: I mean, that is what everybody knows. That is what
Speaker 10: history tells us. There's only a few people in the
Speaker 10: modern era who have gotten to the stage of the
Speaker 10: hearings and not gotten confirmed. So that's what we know
Speaker 10: is the reality. And of course the pressure, the pressure
Speaker 10: campaign rather as you mentioned, Joe, that makes it all
Speaker 10: that much more of a likelihood. But again, this would
Speaker 10: never surprise anybody who's watched these hearings. I think the
Speaker 10: surprising thing about watching these hearings is the fact that
Speaker 10: you're seeing on both sides of the aisle which some
Speaker 10: of these people have been nominated, there is concern about
Speaker 10: their competence. There is concern about their ability to do
Speaker 10: the job, and that is what is concerning so RFK Junior.
Speaker 10: He was unable to answer basic questions about the difference
Speaker 10: between Medicare and Medicaid, two entitlement programs that are funded
Speaker 10: out of an agency. He will run, which is the
Speaker 10: largest agency monetarily, even a bigger budget than Defense, and
Speaker 10: yet he couldn't answer basic questions. And again these were
Speaker 10: coming from both sides of the aisle. So I don't
Speaker 10: think it's a big stretch to say they're going to
Speaker 10: get confirmed. It is a big shock to listen to
Speaker 10: people who don't seem to have the knowledge and the
Speaker 10: competence to do these positions. That is concerning to many
Speaker 10: of us, and again on both sides of the isle.
Speaker 10: But it's not going to move people like Cassidy or
Speaker 10: Collins because they are up in twenty six and they
Speaker 10: know the score, which is a primary challenge awaits and
Speaker 10: they are responding to that.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 7: So, Genie, to your point, it's one thing to get
Speaker 7: the job, it's another to keep it. We obviously saw
Speaker 7: a great deal of turnover, including at the cabinet level,
Speaker 7: in the first Trump administration. How hard is it going
Speaker 7: to be for RFK, Junior, Tolci, Gabbard, or frankly, anyone
Speaker 7: who gets confirmed to stay in line with the president.
Speaker 7: To what extent do they actually have freedom to pursue
Speaker 7: their own agendas?
Speaker 10: Yeah, I don't think they have much freedom. I think
Speaker 10: We're already seeing that. I mean, we saw when the
Speaker 10: President came out and talked about the horrific crash and
Speaker 10: the Potomac, about the nominees who came forward who had
Speaker 10: to talk about Dei first and praise him before they
Speaker 10: talked about the body still being pulled out of the river.
Speaker 10: I think that continues, and even more so than that,
Speaker 10: would anybody with sense want to serve in this administration
Speaker 10: knowing that Mark Millie Bolton and others who went against
Speaker 10: the president then had their security pulled even though they
Speaker 10: are facing death threats at the moment from Iran. So
Speaker 10: this is very very tricky business for these nominees, and
Speaker 10: I think we will see turnover. That's not unusual, but
Speaker 10: these people face turnover and little protection from the president
Speaker 10: or the federal government once that happens. That's a scary proposition,
Speaker 10: all right.
Speaker 7: Jeanie Shanzeno and Lisa Camuso Miller our political panel on
Speaker 7: this Tuesday, Thank you both so much for joining us
Speaker 7: here on balance of Power. And we still have more
Speaker 7: ahead as we shift our focus from domestic politics to
Speaker 7: geopolitics with the expected visit just hours from now of
Speaker 7: the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyaho at the White House.
Speaker 7: He scheduled to get there around four pm Eastern time,
Speaker 7: with a lot on the agenda, of course, the first
Speaker 7: foreign leader to visit Trump at the White House so
Speaker 7: far this term.
Speaker 2: That's right. It's considered a pretty major honor in Benjamin
Speaker 2: nettya who has reminded us of that. We'll be seeing
Speaker 2: the two of them a few hours from now, just
Speaker 2: after five pm. A bilateral news conference from the White
Speaker 2: House has been scheduled. We'll bring it to you live
Speaker 2: here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. One of many things
Speaker 2: happening inside the Beltwagh today. You mentioned as well the
Speaker 2: looming vote for Tulsea Gabbarding Committee that will also happen
Speaker 2: before we get back together on the late edition of
Speaker 2: Balance of Power, A Garshamali is coming in next as
Speaker 2: we try to figure the progress that could be made
Speaker 2: at the White House.
Speaker 1: Today, you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcasts.
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Speaker 2: We are live from Washington, where we're standing by for
Speaker 2: an important news conference, a schedule to start a few
Speaker 2: hours from now. Whether it's on time, we'll find out
Speaker 2: together as President Trump and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyah, who
Speaker 2: prepared to hold a bilateral news conference on what is
Speaker 2: the first visit of a foreign leader to this new administration.
Speaker 2: Netan Yahoo with much on the line here, of course,
Speaker 2: in phase one of a cease fire with Hamas in Gaza,
Speaker 2: spoke to reporters on his way to the US.
Speaker 5: Let's listen, I'm leaving for a very important meeting with
Speaker 5: President Trump in Washington. The fact that this would be
Speaker 5: President Trump's first meeting with a foreign leader since his
Speaker 5: inauguration is telling. I think it's a testimony to the
Speaker 5: strength of the Israeli American alliance. It's also a testimonial
Speaker 5: to the strength of our personal friendship. That friendship and
Speaker 5: that cooperation is already the important results for Israel in
Speaker 5: the Middle.
Speaker 7: East, but ken this meeting this afternoon yield even further
Speaker 7: results as we look toward the potential of a phase
Speaker 7: two of the ceasefire agreement. Joining US now to get
Speaker 7: into this here in our Washington, d C studio, I'm
Speaker 7: pleased to say, Sagar Shamali, she was former director for
Speaker 7: Syria and Lebanon at the National Security Council, now founder
Speaker 7: and CEO of Greenwich Media Strategies, welcome back to Bloomberg
Speaker 7: TV and Radio. Lovely to see you here in d C.
Speaker 7: When we consider that Phase one does still seem to
Speaker 7: be intact as we speak, as Neatnyahoo visits Washington, knowing
Speaker 7: that the clock is ticking for this to expire, do
Speaker 7: you see us getting into Phase two at the end
Speaker 7: of this forty two day period.
Speaker 11: Well, I'm not so sure about Phase two because there
Speaker 11: are a few reasons why it's going to be difficult,
Speaker 11: and part of it is that the requirements of Phase
Speaker 11: two are that Hamas must release all remaining hostages in
Speaker 11: exchange for the IDF completely withdrawing from Gaza, and a
Speaker 11: declaration of a permanent end to the war. And that
Speaker 11: is a major step to make, especially when you've got
Speaker 11: Nitayahu and his cabinet who very clearly said that they
Speaker 11: want to resume more after Phase one. But the timing
Speaker 11: here is interesting because this week is when the negotiations
Speaker 11: for Phase two are supposed to begin, and those negotiations
Speaker 11: are still valid and still important even if Phase two
Speaker 11: is unlikely, because if it doesn't go into phase two,
Speaker 11: that doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't potential other deals
Speaker 11: that could happen. The Trump administration has made it very
Speaker 11: clear that they want to reach an end of the war,
Speaker 11: and they want to achieve it in this broader deal
Speaker 11: that includes Saudi Arabia, the UAE. I've been in Washington,
Speaker 11: DC now for a few days, and all I hear
Speaker 11: about from the administration is a prioritization of the Abraham
Speaker 11: Accords and how this could feature into it. So there
Speaker 11: is still something there there to discuss, even if Phase
Speaker 11: two of the original Seies Fire deal might not be reached.
Speaker 2: King of Jordan said to visit the White House next week.
Speaker 2: Does that help to connect the dots?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 11: Talking about there's no it's not a coincidence that Trump's first,
Speaker 11: very first phone call was to MBS, his very first
Speaker 11: official it is with Netta Yahu he is. And now
Speaker 11: you've got Jordan being followed by this. You've got an
Speaker 11: effort to reset these relationships, all of these relationships to
Speaker 11: prioritize the Abraham Accords, in which they want to include
Speaker 11: as many countries as possible, and also, by the way,
Speaker 11: to remind all of those leaders in the Middle East
Speaker 11: in particular and probably around the world to rely on
Speaker 11: the United States as an ally and partner and not
Speaker 11: to hedge with China most importantly.
Speaker 7: Well, so when we consider other Arab countries here, it
Speaker 7: does seem the administration also has asks potentially of these countries.
Speaker 7: We just heard from Steve Whitcoff, Trump's envoy to the
Speaker 7: Middle East, who was speaking to reporters at the White House,
Speaker 7: saying that the US wants Arab nations to take in
Speaker 7: Palestinians from Gaza. The President himself has exploded this as well.
Speaker 7: Are any Arab nations going to agree to that? Jordan
Speaker 7: included Egypt another example.
Speaker 11: Okay, so this one is a very fascinating one to
Speaker 11: me because I will tell you, throughout the war, since
Speaker 11: October seven, I have always been a proponent of Egypt
Speaker 11: and Jordan taking Gazen refugees as refugees. By the way,
Speaker 11: and I find it, to quote Queen Rania, but to
Speaker 11: turn it back on them morally reprehensible that they didn't
Speaker 11: because what they ended up doing was trapping them in
Speaker 11: a situation where they knew Israel's response a response to
Speaker 11: the Hamas terrorist attack, they knew how it would go,
Speaker 11: and they deliberately kept them in there. And there are
Speaker 11: many reasons that we could go into separately. They're concerned
Speaker 11: about whether those refugees will remain permanent. You've had many
Speaker 11: problems in our in history with Palestinian refugees in Jordan, Kuwait,
Speaker 11: and Lebanon, creating violence, pursuing civil wars. So I understand
Speaker 11: that that goal. But these are two countries that take
Speaker 11: usaid and a lot of usaid, and that's not a
Speaker 11: point of leverage that the Biden administration was comfortable up
Speaker 11: pulling over their heads and twisting their arms and saying,
Speaker 11: you take all this aid. You need to take these
Speaker 11: refugees not permanently. You need to house them as this
Speaker 11: situation happens and unfolds. And that's from what I understand
Speaker 11: over and over again from the administration. While I understand
Speaker 11: the language could come off concerning their goal is to
Speaker 11: have that be not permanent, to have them move because
Speaker 11: Gaza's uninhabitable.
Speaker 2: I want to hear about the relationship between these two.
Speaker 2: A lot has been written between Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyaho,
Speaker 2: knowing they didn't talk for about four years. There was
Speaker 2: incredible bad blood between the two of them for the
Speaker 2: bulk of the Biden administration. You remember how bitter Donald
Speaker 2: Trump was about the fact that net Yahoo called Joe
Speaker 2: Biden to congratulate him for winning before the whole stop
Speaker 2: the steel movement had come to an end. He actually
Speaker 2: criticized net Yahoo after October seventh. They need each other, Now,
Speaker 2: what is their relationship like?
Speaker 11: That's right, It's a very interesting relationship because it's not
Speaker 11: necessarily that they're best buds. But during the first Trump administration,
Speaker 11: we know the extent to which Trump prioritizes the alliance
Speaker 11: with Israel and is very pro Israel, and we've seen
Speaker 11: that play out in many ways, recognizing the annexation of
Speaker 11: the Goal on Heights, moving the embassy to Jerusalem very
Speaker 11: quickly now since he's come to office about it during
Speaker 11: the campaign anyway, but one of the first steps he
Speaker 11: took was to halt this or unhalt I guess the
Speaker 11: halt in two thousand pound bombs to Israel that Biden
Speaker 11: had had halted. So we can see where his goals
Speaker 11: are and his priorities are. And that's but that said,
Speaker 11: their relationship is a little tenuous. But at the same time,
Speaker 11: Netta Yahoo doesn't want to say no to Trump, and
Speaker 11: I don't expect him to. And this is why this
Speaker 11: trip is going to be so fascinating, because you're coming
Speaker 11: at a point right now where they're going to be
Speaker 11: talking about the Phase two or what comes after the
Speaker 11: next the first of Phase one at least. And Trump
Speaker 11: has this goal and Antenyah, who has a different goal,
Speaker 11: and and Trump is a deal maker, and he's going
Speaker 11: to try and find a way to say I want
Speaker 11: an end to this war, and I want to achieve
Speaker 11: US national security objectives in this region, and you're going
Speaker 11: to have to work with me on it. Whether that
Speaker 11: might result in a new election in Israel because of
Speaker 11: these moves is Netanyahu's problem.
Speaker 7: Well, so it's you're saying Trump with the leverage here,
Speaker 7: not Menyah.
Speaker 11: Trump is the one who has the leverage, and I
Speaker 11: really I would expect to see this not just with Israel,
Speaker 11: but with pursuing peace with a number of countries, particularly
Speaker 11: one of the ones I'm very hopeful for. And I
Speaker 11: hope they prioritize is peace with Lebanon. Now is the
Speaker 11: only time to pursue that kind of deal given the
Speaker 11: situation there domestically, and would really serve you a sacial
Speaker 11: security interest because that's Israel's neighbor. So they're going to
Speaker 11: be looking at this from a real holistic approach.
Speaker 2: All this against the backdrop of this report today in
Speaker 2: The New York Times that a secret team of scientists
Speaker 2: in Iran is exploring a faster, if cruder approach to
Speaker 2: developing an atomic weapon. What sense of urgency does this
Speaker 2: put underneath these talks? And are we going to start
Speaker 2: hearing more about and we've already heard it on this program,
Speaker 2: a potential preemptive strike against Iran?
Speaker 11: Well, so this issue Iran will definitely feature prominently in
Speaker 11: these talks. The administration is not They've not come out
Speaker 11: completely yet because they're still figuring it out on exactly
Speaker 11: the policy they would pursue regarding military engagement or or
Speaker 11: bombing Iran's nuclear program, And so they haven't come out
Speaker 11: yet with where they stand on that. I wouldn't believe
Speaker 11: that the administration would hold back if they thought that
Speaker 11: that was the right move. But also by the way,
Speaker 11: that unpredictability that those not being black and white about
Speaker 11: it serves the interests of the Trump administration because they
Speaker 11: want Iran to feel afraid of how the administration might
Speaker 11: might react, might advise Israel, and so they play that
Speaker 11: to their favor as well. But I absolutely believe that
Speaker 11: this is going to be future prominently. They are already
Speaker 11: prioritizing it, but they haven't come out very clearly yet
Speaker 11: with the exact policy toward Iran other than that they
Speaker 11: intend to renew the maximum pressure.
Speaker 2: Get another warning from Trump in this news or today
Speaker 2: when all hell will breaks. Like you said about the
Speaker 2: ceasefire and the hostages, this is the next warning.
Speaker 6: That's yes.
Speaker 11: And we have to remember right now is Trump walked
Speaker 11: into a very unique time with geopolitical dynamics in the region,
Speaker 11: with this axis of resistance on its heels, Iran on
Speaker 11: the defense, Hasbola decapitated, Hamas decimated, and US it has fallen.
Speaker 11: And that's something that the Trump administration is going to
Speaker 11: take to its advantage. And I don't expect Iran to
Speaker 11: be able to go very far with that.
Speaker 7: Because you allude to Bosher Ala Sad, I do want
Speaker 7: to ask you about Tulca Gabbard, who of course faced
Speaker 7: a lot of questions in her confirmation hearing last week
Speaker 7: about her visit to see him in twenty seventeen, in
Speaker 7: addition to a number of other difficult questions she was asked.
Speaker 7: And for all of that, it does seem that just
Speaker 7: moments from now, really in the two pm hour, she
Speaker 7: will be passed through the Intel Committee heading to her
Speaker 7: full confirmation vote on the Senate floor. What is your
Speaker 7: thought on that?
Speaker 11: It looks like that, And I want to be clear,
Speaker 11: because I'm very concerned about her in this position. I
Speaker 11: don't feel like that about every cabinet minister at all,
Speaker 11: cabinet ministers, excuse me, every cabinet secretary or principle in
Speaker 11: Trump's cabinet at all. I am particularly concerned about her
Speaker 11: because I believe that over the year she has reflected
Speaker 11: very poor judgment and instinct, and particularly when it comes
Speaker 11: to foreign policy, when it comes to believe the analyzes
Speaker 11: and assessments of our intelligence community.
Speaker 3: So I don't.
Speaker 11: I'm concerned about it, But I also don't feel as
Speaker 11: though I feel as though that train is moving, and
Speaker 11: it doesn't seem as though anybody it seems that though
Speaker 11: there are concerns, but yet she's still going to be
Speaker 11: confirmed in this position. And the concern with that is
Speaker 11: that this is the person who briefs the president daily
Speaker 11: at the Presidential Daily Briefing, and if she's receiving an
Speaker 11: assessment from the intelligence community on anything, it could be
Speaker 11: Iran or Russia or China or anything, and she reads
Speaker 11: it a different way and she tells President Trump, well,
Speaker 11: I don't think that this is a threat, or I
Speaker 11: think that that that you know, Putin's actually not so bad,
Speaker 11: or us it is actually is is it? Well, us,
Speaker 11: it's gone now. But well, whomever it could be, it
Speaker 11: could be anybody, given that that judgment she has reflected
Speaker 11: in the past, she just to me hasn't proven herself
Speaker 11: for this kind of role.
Speaker 2: Well, we should remind our listeners and viewers that Syria
Speaker 2: was a prominent part of your portfolio when you were
Speaker 2: working in.
Speaker 6: The White House.
Speaker 2: That must inform your opinion on her in a se fashion.
Speaker 2: Though her her dalliances with al Asade mean.
Speaker 11: What, yes, it's it's and that is absolutely entirely what
Speaker 11: I meant I talked about I handled Syria for two
Speaker 11: years during the Syria crisis, and it was not hard
Speaker 11: for someone even just on the outside to know what
Speaker 11: was happening and to know what USAID was doing. But
Speaker 11: she went after the assessment of his use of chemical weapons.
Speaker 11: She had access to that information, being in Congress, she
Speaker 11: was briefed on it, and still chose to go and
Speaker 11: still chose to say that he wasn't in enemy of
Speaker 11: the United States. She questioned whether he used chemical weapons
Speaker 11: against his people. And I will tell you, by the way,
Speaker 11: the bar for the US government to make that assessment
Speaker 11: was very high, and it was not something they did lightly.
Speaker 11: It took a long time, and she still questioned it.
Speaker 11: And that again, I just don't see why she will.
Speaker 11: I believe that that lack of judgment and instinct will
Speaker 11: apply to anything she works on any portfolio over the world.
Speaker 7: Well, I guess we'll see how this goes in the
Speaker 7: Intelligence Committee later on today and ultimately the four full
Speaker 7: Senate floor. Before we let you go, oh Gar, we
Speaker 7: just have a few minutes left here. But I also
Speaker 7: do wonder what your reflection is on what's happening with USAID.
Speaker 7: The push by Elon Musk, and he says he has
Speaker 7: Donald Trump's buy in to dismantle this entirety, entirely the
Speaker 7: State Department getting control. How much foreign aid is realistically
Speaker 7: going to be left after this review, do you anticipate, Well, so, from.
Speaker 11: What I understand, emergency aid so meaning food, medicine, medical
Speaker 11: equipment that is going through and that's going to continue,
Speaker 11: and that's pretty standard for the US government anyway.
Speaker 3: It's the same with sanctions.
Speaker 11: Sanctions don't shouldn't then don't impact humanitarian aid for food
Speaker 11: and medicine and medical equipment. It's the aid that they're
Speaker 11: looking at for civil society, for democracy, and they're reviewing
Speaker 11: all of it, so some of it will come back,
Speaker 11: but I would be I don't want to sound naive
Speaker 11: in saying that all of it is going to come back.
Speaker 11: Of course, there's always fat to trim when it comes
Speaker 11: to US foreign aid reviews are a good thing. But
Speaker 11: it's been case for sure, and I've spoken to many
Speaker 11: friends in the government who are who are obviously they're concerned,
Speaker 11: and a lot of it has to do with the unknown,
Speaker 11: and that is going to have a direct impact.
Speaker 4: For sure.
Speaker 11: You're going to see non NGOs and nonprofits all over
Speaker 11: the world lose funding that they had been that they
Speaker 11: had come to rely on funding that does feed into
Speaker 11: US national security interests. But that doesn't mean that Trump
Speaker 11: administration doesn't want the same interests. It's that many of
Speaker 11: them are going about it through a different approach, with
Speaker 11: more a tougher approach, often using sticks and commercial and
Speaker 11: financial tools as leverage.
Speaker 2: Elon Musk calls USAID a criminal organization. We'll be following
Speaker 2: this story very closely. What a pleasure as always to
Speaker 2: have Hagar Shamali with us in studio. Hagarth, thank you
Speaker 2: so much. Enjoy your time back in Washington for a moment.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make
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