WEBVTT - Selects: Slime Mold: 0% Mold, 100% Amazing

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, everybody, it's Josh and for this week's select,

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<v Speaker 1>I've chosen our June of twenty twenty one episode on

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<v Speaker 1>slime Mold. It's actually a powerhouse episode and it's filled

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<v Speaker 1>with maybe more amazing facts than any other episode we've

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<v Speaker 1>ever recorded. It's just like mind blow after mind blow

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<v Speaker 1>after mind blow. So strap on your old timey football

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<v Speaker 1>helmet and prepare for slime Mold. I really think you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to enjoy it.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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<v Speaker 1>Charles W. Chuck, Wayne Bryant, and this is Stuff you

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<v Speaker 1>should Know. No producer edition, that's right, it's just us, buddy,

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to do it. We're going to be just fine.

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<v Speaker 2>Jerry took an early vacation for Memorial Day.

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<v Speaker 1>I know she's always doing stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 2>She knows how to live, and we're stuck with slime

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<v Speaker 2>Mold in her absence.

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<v Speaker 1>I like slime Mold.

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<v Speaker 2>I knew you would love slime Mold.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh yeah, I think it's pretty interesting stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>It's very Josh Clarky.

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<v Speaker 1>It is kind of Josh Clarky so much so that

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<v Speaker 1>as I was researching this, like, I mean, I just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of generally knew about slime mold that it exhibited,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, some weird level of intelligence here there, but

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know much about it. And then as I

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<v Speaker 1>was researching, I was like, I'm kind of into slime

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<v Speaker 1>mold now, Yeah, like all the different kinds of it.

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<v Speaker 1>I like regressed into like, you know, the nerdy eight

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<v Speaker 1>year old I never was.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then you're like, let me clark this over

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<v Speaker 2>to Chuck and see what he thinks. Yes, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>like slimold too. I think it's kind of cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's do it, Okay, Chuck, I'm ready. All right, everybody

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<v Speaker 1>stand back because we are doing it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think you could file this. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not an animal slime mold. I guess we should

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<v Speaker 2>just tell you right away. It's not an animal. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not a fungus, even though you would think it's a

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<v Speaker 2>fungus if you saw it on the forest floor. And

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<v Speaker 2>we'll get to all this stuff, but it feels like

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<v Speaker 2>an animal one of our animal episodes anyway, sort of.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was gonna say the fact that it's not

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<v Speaker 1>an animal or fungus or at the very end, but

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<v Speaker 1>sure we could do it at the beginning, I guess.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, like literally in the last minute they were like,

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<v Speaker 2>I still don't know if this is an animal? Is

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<v Speaker 2>it a dog in disguise?

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<v Speaker 1>You know everything we just told you about. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>an animal, it's not even a fungus. And then we

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<v Speaker 1>just go to listener mail.

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<v Speaker 2>So what is it though, besides super ancient as in

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<v Speaker 2>like maybe one of the very first living things.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's a protest, actually, they figured out, and protest

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<v Speaker 1>seems to be well, it's one of the five main

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<v Speaker 1>Kingdom's animal bacteria, plants, fungi, and then protests and protusts

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<v Speaker 1>are typically single celled organisms like a meba, yeah, or

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<v Speaker 1>protozoans things like that, and they have I couldn't find

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<v Speaker 1>out exactly when they did it, but they fairly recently,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess in the history of biology, fairly recently reclassified

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<v Speaker 1>slime molds from the Kingdom fung guy over to the

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<v Speaker 1>Kingdom protista.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which is interesting because for years they had been

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<v Speaker 2>studied by mycologists who were fun, fun guys. Yeah, And

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<v Speaker 2>they found out later they were like you know what, sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>they should really go over to the protostologists and they said,

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<v Speaker 2>we kind of like these guys, Can we keep studying

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<v Speaker 2>them since we have been? And they said sure, And

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<v Speaker 2>the protostologists were superbist.

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<v Speaker 1>They were, they were. They're still actually not over it.

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<v Speaker 1>They're frequently tpeeing the academic halls of the mycologists whenever

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<v Speaker 1>they get the chance.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's just very bitter battle.

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<v Speaker 1>So that is pretty cute that that the fung guy

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<v Speaker 1>people are still are still studying slime molds even though

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<v Speaker 1>they're not fung guy. But there's you know, some good

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<v Speaker 1>reas is why they were originally considered to be fungi,

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<v Speaker 1>Mostly that they're like these big kind of clumps, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's all sorts of different ways that they take shape

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<v Speaker 1>and form depending on the species. They're different colors, some

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<v Speaker 1>of them form kind of netlike honeycomb structures. Some of

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<v Speaker 1>them look like dog barf. One of the main ones

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<v Speaker 1>we'll talk about today looks a lot like dog barf.

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<v Speaker 2>They look like a fungus though, Like if you were

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<v Speaker 2>walking in the woods and you saw this, nine out

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<v Speaker 2>of ten people would say, well, it's got to be

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<v Speaker 2>some kind of fungus.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, especially because if you're staring at them. You would

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<v Speaker 1>have to stare at them for about five, six ten

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<v Speaker 1>hours to see that they have a huge difference between

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<v Speaker 1>them and fungi, and that they move. They just move

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<v Speaker 1>so slowly it's not apparent to the naked eye. But

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<v Speaker 1>if you film these things with time lapse cameras and

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<v Speaker 1>speed it up, you can see all they very clearly

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<v Speaker 1>move about from place to place. So that's a big

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<v Speaker 1>differentiator between them and fungi. But one of the reasons

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<v Speaker 1>they thought they were like funger, that they were funger

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<v Speaker 1>is because they produce spores to reproduce.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, And I mentioned their ancient origins. They are about

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<v Speaker 2>a billion years old, and like I said, could be

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<v Speaker 2>like as soon as there was stuff, it seems like

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<v Speaker 2>there was slime mold eating basically eating the bacteria that

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<v Speaker 2>breaks down other stuff that dies, and that's what they

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<v Speaker 2>feed on. Bacteria, mold, yeast, basically anything that decomposes dead things,

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<v Speaker 2>slime molds in Gulf. I think it's it's not called photography,

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<v Speaker 2>it's called figotrophy.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, it's not how I was going to say it.

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<v Speaker 1>But are you going to say fego travo trophy? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think you're absolutely right.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know us, it wouldn't be ues if we

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<v Speaker 2>didn't probably both get it wrong, right, But that's when

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<v Speaker 2>you basically surround something and engulf it and just sort

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<v Speaker 2>of like move it into your body just like sort

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<v Speaker 2>of absorb it basically.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which is another difference between slime molds and fungi,

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<v Speaker 1>because fungi actually break the food down and then absorb

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<v Speaker 1>the broken down nutrients. But the fact is, if you

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<v Speaker 1>have things that are decomposing, other things like bacteria, molds, yeast,

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<v Speaker 1>the things that crawl onto or grow on dead people,

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<v Speaker 1>dead trees, all that stuff break them back down into

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<v Speaker 1>their constituents. So the fact that this slime mold feeds

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<v Speaker 1>on other things, it makes it a really important part

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<v Speaker 1>of the food web sure, as part of the nutrient cycle,

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<v Speaker 1>because other things come along and eat the slime molds.

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<v Speaker 1>There's apparently a kind of beetle that has a specialized

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<v Speaker 1>jaw that allows it to slurp up slime molds. I

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<v Speaker 1>think some kinds of insect larva eat them, and then

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<v Speaker 1>so it just kind of keeps going. But they're a

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<v Speaker 1>really important part where you just have these microbes that

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<v Speaker 1>like the beetle couldn't get to that. They're able to

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<v Speaker 1>basically get that energy from you know, the bacteria by

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<v Speaker 1>eating the slime molds.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, And even though other protists can carry disease, slime

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<v Speaker 2>mold is quite human friendly. Actually, you can eat the

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<v Speaker 2>stuff if you want. There's a dish in Mexico, in

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<v Speaker 2>some parts of Mexico called Coca de Luna, which is

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<v Speaker 2>exactly what you think it is. Yeah, poop of the moon,

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<v Speaker 2>moon poop, yep, and they eat the stuff. I even

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<v Speaker 2>looked online to try and get a good recipe, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's not on like the pages of Martha Stewart Living

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<v Speaker 2>like it's you got to dive deep into Reddit and

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<v Speaker 2>stuff like that to get some good recipes.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems like almost almost smacks of urban legend. But

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<v Speaker 1>I'm seeing it in different enough forms yeah that I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's probable that it actually is a thing. The

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<v Speaker 1>thing that scares me is that people say, like in

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<v Speaker 1>some regions of Mexico, it's like, that's not super specific,

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<v Speaker 1>you know.

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<v Speaker 2>True, and we pointed out they weren't animals or plants,

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<v Speaker 2>but we definitely need to point out that slime mold

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<v Speaker 2>is also not mold. No as a protest.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. So one of the really amazing things about

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<v Speaker 1>slime mold is there's a couple of different kinds, as

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<v Speaker 1>we'll talk about in a second, but a whole bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of different kinds of species. One type of slime mold

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<v Speaker 1>can get really big. I mean some of them can

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<v Speaker 1>get up to the size of like a medium or

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<v Speaker 1>pizza large pizza, I guess, depending on whether you're getting

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<v Speaker 1>ripped off by your pizza guy. But like twelve inches

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<v Speaker 1>in diameter. Yeah, that's enormous. Right, So you're like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's pretty cool. It's a big blob of mold. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>put your sockgarters on, because I'm about to blow your

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<v Speaker 1>socks right off your feet. Some of those types of

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<v Speaker 1>slime mold that are as big as a pizza are

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<v Speaker 1>one giant cell.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, this is truly amazing. The plasmodial slime mold,

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<v Speaker 2>which is I guess you could call it one of

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<v Speaker 2>the true slime mold is it has all the stuff

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<v Speaker 2>like as if it were undergoing cellular division, and all

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<v Speaker 2>the different nuclei, like millions of nuclei, organelles, cytoplasm, all

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<v Speaker 2>that stuff, but it's just not it doesn't have cell walls.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not individual little cells. It's just it splits and

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<v Speaker 2>lives inside this giant fortress wall.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. It's almost like if you took all the cells

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<v Speaker 1>that should have made this giant blob up as a

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<v Speaker 1>multi cellular organism and just kind of broke them open

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<v Speaker 1>and dumped all the contents into this blob. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>then through the cell walls away, that's what you would have.

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<v Speaker 2>It's super interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>It is, and it's it's really kind of straightforward if

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<v Speaker 1>you just hear it. But it's also really easy to

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<v Speaker 1>just keep going like wait, why why is it like that?

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<v Speaker 1>And how is it like this? What's going on here?

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<v Speaker 1>Which is one of those things that it just it

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<v Speaker 1>makes slime mold. It's its own thing. And we're still

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<v Speaker 1>learning about this stuff, you know, every day.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I mean it gets there's quite a few

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<v Speaker 2>times in here where we're going to say, and here's

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<v Speaker 2>where it gets even crazier.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right.

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<v Speaker 2>This isn't super crazy. But the other kind of slime mold,

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<v Speaker 2>or the other big broad categories, the cellular slime mold,

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<v Speaker 2>and these are lots of individ vidual, single celled organisms,

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<v Speaker 2>but the kind of knockout fact about them is when

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<v Speaker 2>they're stressed out, if they don't have a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>food around, they can join up together and sort of

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<v Speaker 2>look like one of those plasmodial slime molds, but it's not.

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<v Speaker 2>It's called I guess pseudo plasmodial, yeah, because it's not

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<v Speaker 2>a real one. But it basically says, all right, we're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna all come together to try and find food together,

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<v Speaker 2>and then when they do have food, they can be like,

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<v Speaker 2>all right, we'll just go along our merry way and

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<v Speaker 2>split up.

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<v Speaker 1>Again, yeah, which is pretty nuts. They also will come

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<v Speaker 1>together apparently it makes it harder for predators like those

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<v Speaker 1>specialized beetles to eat them, because those individual slime molds

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<v Speaker 1>can be you know, a millimeter in size or smaller. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so it's pretty easy for a beetle to eat that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's much harder for a beetle to eat something the

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<v Speaker 1>size of like, you know, a quarter. Right, So they

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<v Speaker 1>actually do come together. They come together to move. They

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<v Speaker 1>also come together to reproduce and produce spores. But the

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<v Speaker 1>characteristic of this that what makes it a pseudoplasmodium rather

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<v Speaker 1>than actual true slime mold, is that they retain their

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<v Speaker 1>cell walls, their individual cells. When they come together, they

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<v Speaker 1>just kind of loosely formed together. And a really good

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<v Speaker 1>way of understanding what the cellular slime molds create is

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like a swarm.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a good way to put it, I think.

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<v Speaker 2>Or what's the uh god, that my favorite thing? When

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<v Speaker 2>the birds do that? What's that called?

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<v Speaker 1>Flock of seagulls? Haircut?

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, that's it, boy, you threw me there. So these

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<v Speaker 2>the plasmodium is covered by a layer of slime. And

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<v Speaker 2>you're gonna want to put a pin in this because

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<v Speaker 2>when they do move around, they leave behind a little

0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.560
<v Speaker 2>these little collapse tubules and it looks basically like not

0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:54.360
<v Speaker 2>exactly like a snail trail, but sort of like a

0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.600
<v Speaker 2>layer of slime. And you're gonna want to remember that

0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.280
<v Speaker 2>for later on because these actually kind of serve as

0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:01.640
<v Speaker 2>important little markers.

0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.240
<v Speaker 1>As a matter of fact. Write it down, everybody. We'll

0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:06.120
<v Speaker 1>wait until you get a pen and a piece of paper.

0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Bullover, go inside the CBS closest to you. Yeah, yeah,

0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.560
<v Speaker 2>put on your mask by a pin. Yep, buy a

0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:15.600
<v Speaker 2>piece of paper.

0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:17.680
<v Speaker 1>Pay ten twelve times what you should have paid for

0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.520
<v Speaker 1>that pen. Really, Oh my god.

0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:22.120
<v Speaker 2>Pin markup is big at CBS.

0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.200
<v Speaker 1>I think the general mark up at CVS is fairly high.

0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:27.439
<v Speaker 2>Oh, they're like, we get him in here for the aspirin,

0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.640
<v Speaker 2>then we really juice them with this ballpoint pen.

0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.560
<v Speaker 1>That's right. I hope there's no CVS ads in this episode,

0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:34.400
<v Speaker 1>but we'll find out.

0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.240
<v Speaker 2>What is a what's a good deal at a drug store?

0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:39.600
<v Speaker 1>Is there like a there's zero?

0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:40.839
<v Speaker 2>Are they all mark it up?

0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Everything's marked up because it's like it's like convenience

0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:45.440
<v Speaker 1>kind of thing.

0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:47.600
<v Speaker 2>You sound like a lot of sound like a grandfather.

0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:48.839
<v Speaker 2>It's all marked up.

0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.720
<v Speaker 1>Right Back in my day, you just go to a

0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:53.640
<v Speaker 1>regular grocery store and buy your pens.

0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, you buy from the pin factory, straight from the

0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.200
<v Speaker 2>man who made it. It's right, you know, when I

0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.680
<v Speaker 2>was little, you would for a short time. I'm not

0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:04.640
<v Speaker 2>sure why we did this, because it's not like we

0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:06.240
<v Speaker 2>lived out in the country and this is a very

0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:08.679
<v Speaker 2>old timey country thing to do. We bought our milk

0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.600
<v Speaker 2>direct from a farm nice and we would pull up

0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.640
<v Speaker 2>and I would get to walk inside this huge walk

0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:16.520
<v Speaker 2>in cooler, like next to a loading dock, and I

0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:18.240
<v Speaker 2>just thought it was like the coolest thing in the

0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:20.439
<v Speaker 2>world somehow to get that fresh milk.

0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Sure didn't. They back the cow up and it makes

0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.040
<v Speaker 1>a beeping sound and they just scort the milk right

0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:28.360
<v Speaker 1>into the back of your station.

0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.120
<v Speaker 2>Way. It's right, they mark it up first, wash your

0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.160
<v Speaker 2>way home. So where were we? Okay? If you do

0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.800
<v Speaker 2>see this stuff in the woods, if you ever hiking

0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:41.040
<v Speaker 2>along and you see a big or medium size pizza

0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.720
<v Speaker 2>like yellow blob or orange blob. They can be red,

0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:49.480
<v Speaker 2>they can be white, they can be maroon. Very rarely,

0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.800
<v Speaker 2>they can be black, blue, or green, but usually it's

0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.160
<v Speaker 2>sort of yellowish an orange. And you see that in

0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.959
<v Speaker 2>the forest, you're probably looking at a slime mold.

0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:03.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, especially if it's really hot out and it just rained.

0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:05.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the worst thing in the world for me.

0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.160
<v Speaker 1>You can also see them like on your grass too. Apparently,

0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.280
<v Speaker 1>if it gets really rainy and hot, slime molds will

0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.720
<v Speaker 1>actually come out of the woods into your grass and

0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:18.040
<v Speaker 1>be like, oh, this is pretty nice and they aren't

0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.000
<v Speaker 1>gonna do any harm. It's not a problem for your grass.

0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.160
<v Speaker 1>It just looks kind of gross. It's certainly not gonna

0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.880
<v Speaker 1>hurt you or your pets. And then eventually it'll dry

0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:27.720
<v Speaker 1>up and turned to kind of a gray or tam

0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:30.160
<v Speaker 1>powder and blow away. And that means that it just

0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.200
<v Speaker 1>turned into spores and it just reproduced all over your place.

0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think maybe we should take a break because

0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:41.880
<v Speaker 2>right now people are probably like, dudes, you promised greatness here,

0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:44.320
<v Speaker 2>and so far it's a little hum drum.

0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:45.120
<v Speaker 1>What.

0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:49.280
<v Speaker 2>So put those salt guarters back on, because when we

0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.000
<v Speaker 2>come back, we're really gonna start knocking them off with

0:14:52.040 --> 0:15:17.360
<v Speaker 2>some of these amazing facts.

0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Okay, chuck, we set them up, let's knock them back down.

0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:28.120
<v Speaker 2>So here's one cool fact is that slime molds basically

0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.400
<v Speaker 2>can do the equivalent and do the equivalent of throwing

0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:35.920
<v Speaker 2>themselves on the grenade. They will sacrifice themselves to save others.

0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:38.040
<v Speaker 2>And these are things without a brain or a central

0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.200
<v Speaker 2>nervous system. Like it's not like they think, hmmm, I'm

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.880
<v Speaker 2>feeling empathy today for my fellow mold. Sure, and so

0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna save everybody because I've come across some infectious bacteria.

0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:52.040
<v Speaker 2>But what they do is they come across it, they

0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.440
<v Speaker 2>engulf it, and then they say, let me go, and

0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.400
<v Speaker 2>they cut themselves off from the pack, from the swarm

0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:02.600
<v Speaker 2>and detach themselves and die of that infection, but save

0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:04.000
<v Speaker 2>the rest of the group.

0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:08.400
<v Speaker 1>And my heart will go on played in the background

0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.240
<v Speaker 1>as they get further and further away, exactly. But that's

0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.240
<v Speaker 1>that's altruism, yeah, which is pretty amazing considering, like you said,

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.320
<v Speaker 1>they don't have a brain or anything like that. So

0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.920
<v Speaker 1>how how are they doing this? We'll get to that later.

0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:28.960
<v Speaker 2>So what about tell everyone about the dick Dystellium diyscoitus

0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.239
<v Speaker 2>discods discoids.

0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's one of my favorite words now, discods.

0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Just because as disco in it.

0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.479
<v Speaker 1>So that this was this is a kind of cellular

0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:42.960
<v Speaker 1>slime mold, right, So it's made up of a bunch

0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:47.080
<v Speaker 1>of different individual organisms that come together and when they

0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:51.520
<v Speaker 1>come together they practice altruism to some degree as well,

0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.800
<v Speaker 1>because some of them will basically be like, Okay, I'm dead.

0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.160
<v Speaker 1>Now I'm dead. I'm going to turn into a bundle

0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:01.160
<v Speaker 1>of cellulose fibers, and that cellulose is going to connect

0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:05.000
<v Speaker 1>with other slime mold cells that have dyed and turned

0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:09.119
<v Speaker 1>into cellulose and come together and form a stalk, and

0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 1>then at the top of the stalk a bunch of

0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:15.280
<v Speaker 1>different slime mold cells. They're called slugs. When they're individual

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.440
<v Speaker 1>like that will climb up the stalk and then they'll

0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.280
<v Speaker 1>turn into spores. And then in that way, they're sticking

0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.400
<v Speaker 1>up out of the ground and a passing animal will

0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.119
<v Speaker 1>come and they'll stick to it and it'll get a

0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.919
<v Speaker 1>ride to greener pastures. But to do that, some of

0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:33.480
<v Speaker 1>them have to die to form the stalk to let

0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.640
<v Speaker 1>the spores grow on top of which is pretty amazing itself.

0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.320
<v Speaker 2>It is. And you know we mentioned that they move,

0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:41.879
<v Speaker 2>you know, they're not. They don't just sit around and

0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.479
<v Speaker 2>wait for someone to drop a pepperoni near their pizza

0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.240
<v Speaker 2>shape in the woods so they can eat it. They

0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:50.920
<v Speaker 2>got to go where the food is, and they either

0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.240
<v Speaker 2>move by these little appendages that like little feet like appendages.

0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Those are the cellular slime molds, the individual single celled

0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.800
<v Speaker 2>organisms that can come together, and this is crazy. The

0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.399
<v Speaker 2>other kind they move as one big mass because you know,

0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.440
<v Speaker 2>there's no cell wall going on, so they just sort

0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:11.840
<v Speaker 2>of expand and contract the cytoplasm to kind of gush

0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:13.919
<v Speaker 2>their way along the ground very slowly.

0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which is really neat to see because when they're

0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.119
<v Speaker 1>especially when they're searching for food, which is basically all

0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:22.720
<v Speaker 1>they're ever doing. Like everything that they do is either

0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.239
<v Speaker 1>to get away from some noxious stimuli or to go

0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.080
<v Speaker 1>toward food. Usually to go toward food. It sounds like

0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:34.080
<v Speaker 1>us it basically, Yeah, I don't like that smell. Wonder

0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.359
<v Speaker 1>we love them, but I like that smell. I'm going

0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:41.280
<v Speaker 1>to go toward that. So they make these amazing kind

0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.159
<v Speaker 1>of they look almost like seafans, you know what I'm

0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:47.400
<v Speaker 1>talking about. They look very fractally and they just kind

0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.000
<v Speaker 1>of they fan out, is the best way to put it.

0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.160
<v Speaker 1>When they start to go look for food, and when

0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.280
<v Speaker 1>they do fine food, they start moving toward it. It's

0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:59.240
<v Speaker 1>the cell walls contract and that cytoplasm goes that way

0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.119
<v Speaker 1>and next you know, over a very long period of time.

0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:04.040
<v Speaker 2>See you know, five days later.

0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:09.560
<v Speaker 1>The slime mold has moved and actually sli molds. If

0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.560
<v Speaker 1>you don't they like they they're totally fine living in

0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:14.760
<v Speaker 1>petrie dishes for as long as you want them to,

0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.360
<v Speaker 1>as long as you feed them. If you stop feeding them,

0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:21.040
<v Speaker 1>they'll just get out of the petrie dish and start

0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:22.400
<v Speaker 1>looking for food elsewhere.

0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:23.960
<v Speaker 2>So they'll they'll stay creepy.

0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I mean again, it's not like you're just

0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:29.720
<v Speaker 1>sitting there watching this thing crawl out of it's Petrie dishes.

0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 1>You leave overnight and you forget to feed the thing,

0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:34.480
<v Speaker 1>and you come back and it's half of it is

0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:36.600
<v Speaker 1>out onto the table or something.

0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:40.000
<v Speaker 2>It's something like right out of Gremlins kind of you.

0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:41.600
<v Speaker 2>And I think you said they move it about a

0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:45.120
<v Speaker 2>millimeter an hour, but some of them, actually, if they're

0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.600
<v Speaker 2>really cooking, can go about an inch and a half

0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.240
<v Speaker 2>in an hour, which it's really fast. I mean, it

0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:52.440
<v Speaker 2>doesn't sound fast, but when you're talking about what we're

0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.480
<v Speaker 2>talking about, it is pretty fast.

0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I saw that a couple of places. Most

0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:00.600
<v Speaker 1>people cite something like a millimeter an hour. Remember which

0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.000
<v Speaker 1>one goes that fast? But yeah, I mean you can't

0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:04.880
<v Speaker 1>see it moving when you're staring at it, but over

0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:06.440
<v Speaker 1>time you can for sure.

0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.280
<v Speaker 2>Sure, or you know, if you're just really patient and

0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.240
<v Speaker 2>you can lock in on something, you might be able

0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:12.560
<v Speaker 2>to see that.

0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:17.320
<v Speaker 1>So when they started figuring out in the early two

0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.119
<v Speaker 1>thousands of Japanese researchers were some of the first to

0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:23.639
<v Speaker 1>like really study slime molds, is showing some sort of intelligence.

0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.840
<v Speaker 1>They figure this out from you know, from watching these

0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:30.320
<v Speaker 1>things actually move about and when you when you film

0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:34.760
<v Speaker 1>them in like high speed and then replay it. You

0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.320
<v Speaker 1>can see their movements are deliberate in a lot of ways.

0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.560
<v Speaker 1>They're they're not just blind dumb movements where they happen

0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:46.840
<v Speaker 1>on to food. They clearly can sense food somehow or

0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.560
<v Speaker 1>some way, and they spread out and they seem to

0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.080
<v Speaker 1>spread out and again in a really deliberate way. And

0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:57.960
<v Speaker 1>so some some researchers started to test slime molds to

0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.119
<v Speaker 1>see what they were capable of. One of the first one,

0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:05.280
<v Speaker 1>one of the first researchers was a Japanese scientist named

0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:11.680
<v Speaker 1>Toshiyuki Nakagaki, and I think so too. And doctor Nakagaki,

0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.040
<v Speaker 1>which is even better. Yeah, Yeah, built a maze, like

0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:17.920
<v Speaker 1>a pretty simple maze, but an actual three dimensional maze,

0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:23.000
<v Speaker 1>and a good sized peatree dish put what has come

0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:26.360
<v Speaker 1>to be known as probably the smartest size slime mold,

0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:30.320
<v Speaker 1>Phizarium polycephalum, which is kind of like the rock star

0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.640
<v Speaker 1>of the slime mold world these days, put a phaisarium

0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.320
<v Speaker 1>in it and said go to town, go find your

0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:40.840
<v Speaker 1>little favorite oat flake treat, which is their their favorite food. Yeah.

0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:43.320
<v Speaker 2>And the key here is is there were four different

0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:47.000
<v Speaker 2>routes to two different endpoints where this food was. It

0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.200
<v Speaker 2>wasn't just like, there's only one way to solve this maze.

0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:53.800
<v Speaker 2>And so they put the little oat flake at these endpoints.

0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:57.280
<v Speaker 2>And the micro organisms that grow on the oat flakes

0:21:57.320 --> 0:21:59.320
<v Speaker 2>is what they're after. It's not like they love oatmeal

0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:02.200
<v Speaker 2>or anything like that, right, right, And so he put

0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:06.720
<v Speaker 2>them there and studied them, and over the course of hours,

0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:11.679
<v Speaker 2>these things basically learned to get to that food in

0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.119
<v Speaker 2>the quickest, fastest way every single time.

0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like it could, it could conceivably get to it,

0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.680
<v Speaker 1>like you said, four different ways, but that fast way

0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:24.200
<v Speaker 1>was the way that it would. Just like, that's impressive.

0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:27.800
<v Speaker 1>That's definitely noworthy. You can write multiple papers on that

0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:31.080
<v Speaker 1>kind of study. And so another Japanese researcher came along

0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:35.440
<v Speaker 1>and said, hold mysake, a researcher named at Sushi Taro

0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:38.479
<v Speaker 1>from Hokkaido University, did you like that?

0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:39.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's good.

0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:43.800
<v Speaker 1>And doctor Tiro said, all right, what about this. What

0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:47.159
<v Speaker 1>if we take some oat flakes and basically make a

0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:52.199
<v Speaker 1>general map of the neighborhoods in Tokyo and see what

0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:54.160
<v Speaker 1>the slime mold does with that. Put a little slime

0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:56.119
<v Speaker 1>mold in a petri dish with these oat flakes that

0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:59.439
<v Speaker 1>kind of mimic the neighborhoods of Tokyo, and watched it

0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:02.480
<v Speaker 1>go think over the course of like four or five days.

0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:06.840
<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, and you might think cool, it does what

0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:08.720
<v Speaker 2>it does and it goes after that food in the

0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:12.199
<v Speaker 2>most direct way possible, which is what it did. But

0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:17.639
<v Speaker 2>here's where it gets genuinely amazing. Is they went back

0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:22.400
<v Speaker 2>and they overlaid a map of the current Tokyo railway

0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:25.800
<v Speaker 2>commuter system, the subway system, and they laid it over

0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:30.119
<v Speaker 2>this grid of this slime and it was almost a

0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:31.199
<v Speaker 2>perfect match.

0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:32.600
<v Speaker 1>Is that nuts?

0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:36.080
<v Speaker 2>That's I mean I had to reread that like five

0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:39.359
<v Speaker 2>times to even believe that that's what happened. That this

0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:44.120
<v Speaker 2>slime basically figured out the most efficient route to get

0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:45.760
<v Speaker 2>around essentially Tokyo.

0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Yes, which I mean humans had figured out too, but

0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:53.960
<v Speaker 1>it took teams of human engineers and a very long

0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:56.560
<v Speaker 1>time for them to figure this out. Right, So the

0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:59.520
<v Speaker 1>slime mold was just like, this is nothing. What else

0:23:59.560 --> 0:24:01.840
<v Speaker 1>you got? You got any more cities that are more

0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:04.600
<v Speaker 1>densely populated with more neighborhoods, because I'll just make your

0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:05.960
<v Speaker 1>subway maps all day long.

0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Basically, and they're like, nah, Tokyo is probably one of

0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:11.159
<v Speaker 2>the most dense, right, Okay.

0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:15.639
<v Speaker 1>I saw another another similar kind of a bit of

0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:19.600
<v Speaker 1>research chuck where they actually used oat flakes to signify

0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:24.720
<v Speaker 1>ancient Roman cities in the Balkans. Wow, this is this

0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:28.320
<v Speaker 1>is crazy. It's like an archaeological study. And they put

0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:31.639
<v Speaker 1>some they sicked some faisarium on it and paiserum on it,

0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:37.520
<v Speaker 1>and it mimicked ancient Roman roads that had been lost,

0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:41.840
<v Speaker 1>were very obscure, had largely been forgotten, and ones that

0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:45.960
<v Speaker 1>were well known in the Balkans. It mimicked these these

0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Roman roads like things that people had been like, okay,

0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:50.840
<v Speaker 1>this is the best route from this city to this city.

0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:53.960
<v Speaker 1>That the sli mold did basically the same thing and

0:24:54.440 --> 0:24:56.320
<v Speaker 1>apparently revealed some lost stuff.

0:24:57.280 --> 0:24:59.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I guess it could. Also it's interesting

0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:01.720
<v Speaker 2>like if it does match up, if they do an

0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:05.560
<v Speaker 2>experiment like this, does that mean like the humans get

0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:08.560
<v Speaker 2>it wrong? Like can they use this as a test

0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:10.800
<v Speaker 2>and be like, sorry, the slime mold is spoken.

0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:14.720
<v Speaker 1>I guess so. I kind of like the octopus picking

0:25:14.720 --> 0:25:17.320
<v Speaker 1>the World Cup. You know, they always take the World

0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:19.600
<v Speaker 1>Cup away if the other team that the octopus didn't

0:25:19.800 --> 0:25:20.840
<v Speaker 1>right ends up winning.

0:25:20.920 --> 0:25:23.320
<v Speaker 2>You know, well, I wonder if you I mean, and

0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:25.800
<v Speaker 2>we'll get to real applications of this, but I wonder

0:25:25.840 --> 0:25:28.240
<v Speaker 2>if they could do something like that where they let's

0:25:28.240 --> 0:25:30.040
<v Speaker 2>say they look at the Tokyo system in a couple

0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:33.000
<v Speaker 2>of places it didn't match. They're like, we totally should

0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:33.720
<v Speaker 2>have gone this way.

0:25:34.600 --> 0:25:37.639
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I feel like that that is the direction that

0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:40.320
<v Speaker 1>people are kind of going in that they they could

0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:44.200
<v Speaker 1>conceivably use this for planning new stuff.

0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:48.080
<v Speaker 2>You know, wow, so every city planner will have a

0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:50.520
<v Speaker 2>slime mold researcher at their best.

0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:54.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, like, this is crazy. Why not? You know,

0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:57.679
<v Speaker 1>all you have to do is have some oat flakes

0:25:57.680 --> 0:26:00.400
<v Speaker 1>and a Petri dish and you're good. So I think

0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:01.440
<v Speaker 1>we should take another break.

0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:03.919
<v Speaker 2>What do you think, I'm quite frankly we want to

0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:05.240
<v Speaker 2>eat some oat flakes right about now.

0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:08.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm kind of in the mood for that too. We'll

0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:36.280
<v Speaker 1>be right back. Okay, did you just see some moat flakes?

0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:37.399
<v Speaker 1>I did not.

0:26:38.920 --> 0:26:42.160
<v Speaker 2>We'll get you some, because here's the secret, everybody, when

0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:44.520
<v Speaker 2>we take a break, we don't really go take a break.

0:26:46.440 --> 0:26:49.239
<v Speaker 1>We should have had some crusty old oat flakes on

0:26:49.280 --> 0:26:51.800
<v Speaker 1>your desk and just eating them real quick. I don't know,

0:26:51.840 --> 0:26:52.440
<v Speaker 1>I can't see.

0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:55.959
<v Speaker 2>So all right, we've said that these things don't have brains.

0:26:56.040 --> 0:26:58.440
<v Speaker 2>They don't have, and I don't think we mentioned that.

0:26:58.720 --> 0:27:01.560
<v Speaker 2>It's not like they have. It's not like they're jellyfish

0:27:01.600 --> 0:27:03.880
<v Speaker 2>and they have some sort of weird neural net, right.

0:27:04.280 --> 0:27:07.880
<v Speaker 1>They got nothing like that at all, nothing like. They

0:27:07.880 --> 0:27:12.760
<v Speaker 1>have no way of generating consciousness in any form that

0:27:12.840 --> 0:27:16.639
<v Speaker 1>we recognize. And yet slime mold is teaching us to

0:27:16.800 --> 0:27:21.800
<v Speaker 1>open and open our horizons in hearts, to sure to

0:27:22.040 --> 0:27:25.399
<v Speaker 1>new ideas of what constitutes consciousness and intelligence, you know

0:27:25.440 --> 0:27:27.880
<v Speaker 1>what I'm saying. Yeah, it makes sense as a swarm,

0:27:28.040 --> 0:27:31.760
<v Speaker 1>as a bunch of cellular cellular slime mold makes sense.

0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:34.639
<v Speaker 1>We're already familiar with the hive mind, and you know,

0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:37.439
<v Speaker 1>the emergent property of a bunch of different things, you know,

0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:42.760
<v Speaker 1>operating together. The real puzzler, though, is the single cell

0:27:43.200 --> 0:27:47.159
<v Speaker 1>plasmodial slime mold. That's one big giant cell and the

0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:50.159
<v Speaker 1>fact that it behaves in ways that seem conscious to

0:27:50.240 --> 0:27:51.640
<v Speaker 1>some degree.

0:27:51.880 --> 0:27:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So if you want to kind of go back

0:27:54.040 --> 0:27:57.760
<v Speaker 2>in time to where a lot of this research research started,

0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:01.840
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't actually in but it was. In the nineteen sixties,

0:28:02.320 --> 0:28:07.040
<v Speaker 2>a physicist named Evelyn Fox Keller was curious if she

0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:12.320
<v Speaker 2>could use math to model biological systems because they had

0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:16.600
<v Speaker 2>had success using math to explain and expand our understanding

0:28:16.640 --> 0:28:18.600
<v Speaker 2>of physics. So she was like, let me see if

0:28:18.600 --> 0:28:21.280
<v Speaker 2>we can do this with biology. And someone said, well,

0:28:21.320 --> 0:28:25.320
<v Speaker 2>you got to meet Lee Siegel. Lee Siegel is got

0:28:25.359 --> 0:28:27.359
<v Speaker 2>a little surprised for you. And Lee Siegel got together

0:28:27.400 --> 0:28:31.720
<v Speaker 2>and said, oh, doctor Keller, you need to meet our

0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:35.200
<v Speaker 2>friend slime mold. And doctor Keller was like, this is

0:28:35.200 --> 0:28:37.440
<v Speaker 2>the nineteen sixties. I don't know what slime mold is yet.

0:28:38.200 --> 0:28:41.400
<v Speaker 2>And Keller and sorry Siegel said oh, we'll just take

0:28:41.440 --> 0:28:45.320
<v Speaker 2>a seat and let me tell you about this, which

0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:56.160
<v Speaker 2>is dictio dictyo stell stellium, dicta stellium, right, dictyo stellium, discudium.

0:28:56.520 --> 0:28:58.920
<v Speaker 1>I think that's discoides discoidium.

0:28:59.320 --> 0:29:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, but it's.

0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:04.000
<v Speaker 1>The one we were talking about earlier that creates the stems.

0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:07.360
<v Speaker 1>They sacrifice themselves to create stems for the spores, right.

0:29:07.440 --> 0:29:09.360
<v Speaker 2>And I think this was just significant because it was

0:29:09.400 --> 0:29:12.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of like the first time anyone had observed and

0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:15.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, fell off of their lab stool and could

0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:19.560
<v Speaker 2>explain it to others, these pseudo plasmodiums. But what they

0:29:19.560 --> 0:29:21.080
<v Speaker 2>were missing was they were like, all right, we see

0:29:21.080 --> 0:29:25.800
<v Speaker 2>this happening, and it's amazing and how are they doing this? Though?

0:29:25.920 --> 0:29:28.640
<v Speaker 2>And the very first thing they thought of is like,

0:29:28.680 --> 0:29:30.800
<v Speaker 2>maybe it's like an ant colony or something, and maybe

0:29:30.880 --> 0:29:34.440
<v Speaker 2>there's like a leader or a pacemaker sell or maybe

0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:36.920
<v Speaker 2>a few of them. They get together and they just

0:29:36.960 --> 0:29:40.080
<v Speaker 2>sort of send out chemical signals to everyone else and

0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:42.560
<v Speaker 2>say go this way, and the rest are just sort

0:29:42.560 --> 0:29:45.080
<v Speaker 2>of the worker ants that follow along.

0:29:45.680 --> 0:29:48.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And they knew in particular that there was a

0:29:48.600 --> 0:29:53.680
<v Speaker 1>chemical called cyclical amp which is related to ATP the

0:29:53.840 --> 0:29:58.840
<v Speaker 1>dinocne triphosphate, and that that was how they were signaling.

0:29:58.880 --> 0:30:01.840
<v Speaker 1>But they thought that like you're saying, that there are

0:30:01.880 --> 0:30:04.200
<v Speaker 1>just a few signaling, everybody else was responding. And what

0:30:04.200 --> 0:30:06.760
<v Speaker 1>they figured out is that that they had that totally wrong.

0:30:06.880 --> 0:30:10.080
<v Speaker 1>That there weren't leaders, there weren't pacemakers who were in

0:30:10.200 --> 0:30:13.000
<v Speaker 1>charge of like you know, signaling and in effect making

0:30:13.040 --> 0:30:15.360
<v Speaker 1>decisions for the group. That it was actually like a

0:30:15.400 --> 0:30:20.719
<v Speaker 1>group effort, and that the the whatever whatever cell or

0:30:20.760 --> 0:30:24.560
<v Speaker 1>slug that they're called in this cellular slime mold swarm

0:30:25.080 --> 0:30:30.080
<v Speaker 1>was closest to food, it would signal with AMP that hey,

0:30:30.080 --> 0:30:32.120
<v Speaker 1>there's some food over here, let's all go over this way,

0:30:32.560 --> 0:30:34.920
<v Speaker 1>and that signal would just kind of be passed along

0:30:34.960 --> 0:30:37.720
<v Speaker 1>through the swarm, through the cellular slime mold, and the

0:30:37.800 --> 0:30:40.400
<v Speaker 1>slime mold would move toward the food and start eating.

0:30:41.040 --> 0:30:43.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and this was you know, I mean, you can

0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:45.280
<v Speaker 2>see why they went in that initial direction because it

0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:49.200
<v Speaker 2>made sense. And a lot of nature is organized with

0:30:49.280 --> 0:30:53.600
<v Speaker 2>a top down principle. In mind, humans often organized with

0:30:53.640 --> 0:30:57.320
<v Speaker 2>a top down principle, big business, government, it's just a

0:30:57.400 --> 0:31:00.120
<v Speaker 2>it's a system that we're used to seeing in in

0:31:00.200 --> 0:31:03.080
<v Speaker 2>nature and in people. And so it made sense that

0:31:03.120 --> 0:31:05.720
<v Speaker 2>they went that way. And they never they never really

0:31:05.720 --> 0:31:07.720
<v Speaker 2>thought about the fact that it could be like, no,

0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:11.960
<v Speaker 2>it's a total bottom up system and whatever is closest

0:31:12.280 --> 0:31:14.120
<v Speaker 2>can figure out send out these signals.

0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:19.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So instead of like a hierarchy, it's more like

0:31:19.000 --> 0:31:21.280
<v Speaker 1>like it's like how a flock of birds operate. So

0:31:21.280 --> 0:31:24.200
<v Speaker 1>a flock of seagulls haircut operates where.

0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:25.160
<v Speaker 2>It runs so far away.

0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:30.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it's the hair that's closest to whatever it's

0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:33.440
<v Speaker 1>running from is the first to run and everybody else follows.

0:31:33.480 --> 0:31:35.480
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of like how a flock of birds will

0:31:35.520 --> 0:31:38.160
<v Speaker 1>turn depending on you know, which way they need to

0:31:38.200 --> 0:31:41.080
<v Speaker 1>turn based on that bird making that decision, and the

0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:44.440
<v Speaker 1>rest of the flock basically following it. The bottom up,

0:31:44.480 --> 0:31:47.360
<v Speaker 1>bottom up decision making kind of thing. And so we

0:31:47.400 --> 0:31:49.560
<v Speaker 1>started to learn a lot, and we know a lot

0:31:50.000 --> 0:31:53.720
<v Speaker 1>about bottom up decision making now as opposed to when

0:31:53.720 --> 0:31:56.240
<v Speaker 1>these guys were working back in the sixties, I think.

0:31:57.080 --> 0:31:59.800
<v Speaker 1>But in the twenty first century, that whole idea of

0:32:00.000 --> 0:32:05.760
<v Speaker 1>autom up decision making or decentralized decision making has become

0:32:05.840 --> 0:32:11.760
<v Speaker 1>a real component in artificial intelligence design, because if you've

0:32:11.800 --> 0:32:13.680
<v Speaker 1>listened to the End of the World with Josh Clark,

0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:15.240
<v Speaker 1>you know that one of the hardest things in the

0:32:15.240 --> 0:32:19.640
<v Speaker 1>world to do is program something to understand everything, because

0:32:19.680 --> 0:32:22.760
<v Speaker 1>you have to input all the stuff it needs to know.

0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Whereas if you can just kind of set up some

0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:29.000
<v Speaker 1>sort of simple algorithm to let the machine think for itself,

0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:31.320
<v Speaker 1>you finally got something.

0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:34.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I would imagine I didn't see this anywhere,

0:32:34.320 --> 0:32:36.680
<v Speaker 2>but it seems like this might could have some applications

0:32:36.680 --> 0:32:41.480
<v Speaker 2>in nanotechnology as well. Like the idea that we could program,

0:32:41.800 --> 0:32:45.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, billions of tiny little nanobot bugs to clean

0:32:45.640 --> 0:32:48.360
<v Speaker 2>the windows of your house every day. Nice like a

0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:53.440
<v Speaker 2>lot of things collectively doing one bigger thing. Yeah, am

0:32:53.440 --> 0:32:55.800
<v Speaker 2>I base there? Or could that potentially be a thing?

0:32:56.760 --> 0:32:58.560
<v Speaker 1>Not at all. I think it totally could be a thing.

0:32:58.560 --> 0:33:01.800
<v Speaker 1>It's anytime you have a huge amount of things that

0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:04.120
<v Speaker 1>you're trying to all get to do roughly the same

0:33:04.200 --> 0:33:09.040
<v Speaker 1>thing that they need to not you know, redouble their

0:33:09.080 --> 0:33:13.360
<v Speaker 1>efforts or replicate their efforts. So you don't want one

0:33:13.520 --> 0:33:15.360
<v Speaker 1>cleaning one part of the window and the other one

0:33:15.440 --> 0:33:17.880
<v Speaker 1>coming over and cleaning the same part of the window

0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:20.800
<v Speaker 1>that's already clean. All you have to do is figure

0:33:20.800 --> 0:33:24.560
<v Speaker 1>out how to teach them if if this happens, do this,

0:33:25.360 --> 0:33:27.600
<v Speaker 1>and if you can figure out how to strip it

0:33:27.680 --> 0:33:34.080
<v Speaker 1>down to a basic enough algorithm that could conceivably be

0:33:34.280 --> 0:33:38.320
<v Speaker 1>used for just about any situation, you've got the key

0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:40.160
<v Speaker 1>to the universe in your hand, Like there's actually I

0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:43.360
<v Speaker 1>read We'll have to do an episode on it one day.

0:33:43.480 --> 0:33:45.600
<v Speaker 1>But I read an article but a guy who was

0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:47.800
<v Speaker 1>I think he was a physicist back in the eighties

0:33:48.240 --> 0:33:51.360
<v Speaker 1>who was like, I think the universe is basically an

0:33:51.400 --> 0:33:56.200
<v Speaker 1>operating system. That is, that is goes down to two.

0:33:56.360 --> 0:33:59.400
<v Speaker 1>There's two bits. You could say it's black and white,

0:33:59.680 --> 0:34:03.320
<v Speaker 1>one zero, it doesn't matter. But there are two kinds

0:34:03.320 --> 0:34:06.600
<v Speaker 1>of bits, and depending on the combinations that these things form,

0:34:07.160 --> 0:34:13.520
<v Speaker 1>everything else in the universe arises from that, including consciousness, planets, slime, mold.

0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:16.319
<v Speaker 1>Everything comes out of these two types of bits that

0:34:16.360 --> 0:34:19.759
<v Speaker 1>basically make up the fabric of space and time, interacting

0:34:19.760 --> 0:34:23.719
<v Speaker 1>with one another in increasingly sophisticated patterns. Wow, and that

0:34:23.840 --> 0:34:27.160
<v Speaker 1>is exactly what you're talking about. So if we can

0:34:27.239 --> 0:34:31.520
<v Speaker 1>figure out what that that computation is, what those algorithms

0:34:31.560 --> 0:34:34.239
<v Speaker 1>are that give rise to larger and larger stuff, you

0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:37.120
<v Speaker 1>can you can do anything. It's it's weird. You can

0:34:37.160 --> 0:34:42.279
<v Speaker 1>do increasingly sophisticated stuff. The more basic your algorithm is.

0:34:42.360 --> 0:34:43.799
<v Speaker 1>It's almost a paradox.

0:34:44.120 --> 0:34:49.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is like doctor Octagon stuff. Doctor Octagon.

0:34:49.719 --> 0:34:52.080
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, is that right from Spot? I don't

0:34:52.719 --> 0:34:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah he was Alchequalina.

0:34:54.600 --> 0:34:56.839
<v Speaker 2>You mean yeah, sure, all right.

0:34:58.680 --> 0:35:00.520
<v Speaker 1>I like al from Alina. I think he makes some

0:35:00.600 --> 0:35:02.600
<v Speaker 1>really weird choices for parts.

0:35:03.040 --> 0:35:03.520
<v Speaker 2>He's great.

0:35:04.160 --> 0:35:06.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure somebody's like, hey, we'll give you ten million

0:35:06.440 --> 0:35:08.840
<v Speaker 1>dollars to play doctor Octagon. I'd be like, sure, you

0:35:09.000 --> 0:35:10.680
<v Speaker 1>got it. Where do I sign up?

0:35:10.760 --> 0:35:12.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I need to get him a movie crush because

0:35:12.640 --> 0:35:16.439
<v Speaker 2>he actually is friends of the network. He's a friend

0:35:16.440 --> 0:35:17.879
<v Speaker 2>of the network. I think he's been on The Daily

0:35:17.960 --> 0:35:20.160
<v Speaker 2>z eyite Geist a few times. Oh yeah, and like

0:35:20.200 --> 0:35:22.320
<v Speaker 2>they booked him on some other comedy shows. I'm like, guys,

0:35:22.320 --> 0:35:24.040
<v Speaker 2>throw a little Molina my way for.

0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:27.200
<v Speaker 1>Real, Molina spread all over. Movie Crush.

0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:30.359
<v Speaker 2>You've been on Daily's Eyed Guys twice. I've never half.

0:35:30.840 --> 0:35:32.439
<v Speaker 1>I've been on a movie Crush once too.

0:35:32.840 --> 0:35:35.839
<v Speaker 2>I had Miles on the Movie Crush the other day

0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:37.640
<v Speaker 2>and I was given my heart time because they haven't

0:35:37.680 --> 0:35:39.799
<v Speaker 2>asked me on and they think twice.

0:35:40.280 --> 0:35:42.080
<v Speaker 1>It's a hilarious keep it up, Chuck.

0:35:42.200 --> 0:35:44.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he was like, uh no, man, I was like,

0:35:44.880 --> 0:35:45.840
<v Speaker 2>Miles's cool.

0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:48.160
<v Speaker 1>Did he really flustered him?

0:35:48.160 --> 0:35:50.440
<v Speaker 2>I feel like he was on skates for a second there,

0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:53.080
<v Speaker 2>but I let him off the hook. I'm having Jack

0:35:53.160 --> 0:35:55.439
<v Speaker 2>on next week, so I'm really like going full court

0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:55.879
<v Speaker 2>press here.

0:35:56.320 --> 0:35:59.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Miles is like man beat beyond guard. Chuck does

0:35:59.440 --> 0:36:00.759
<v Speaker 1>not punches.

0:36:01.000 --> 0:36:02.920
<v Speaker 2>It's funny because Miles, you know, as you know, is

0:36:02.960 --> 0:36:08.000
<v Speaker 2>such a smart smart guy and just like having a

0:36:08.000 --> 0:36:10.759
<v Speaker 2>conversation with him is always amazing. And then he comes

0:36:10.760 --> 0:36:13.720
<v Speaker 2>on and he picks Maul Rats. What's his favorite movie?

0:36:14.719 --> 0:36:15.320
<v Speaker 2>Was it? Really?

0:36:15.360 --> 0:36:16.799
<v Speaker 1>That's his favorite movie of all time?

0:36:16.840 --> 0:36:18.759
<v Speaker 2>Huh? I mean that's what he picked. And he was like, hey, man,

0:36:18.800 --> 0:36:20.840
<v Speaker 2>I never said I had good tastes, so nice. It

0:36:20.920 --> 0:36:21.520
<v Speaker 2>was pretty fun.

0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:23.600
<v Speaker 1>Do you have any hints of what Jacks is going

0:36:23.640 --> 0:36:23.840
<v Speaker 1>to be?

0:36:24.040 --> 0:36:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, I know it's pulp fiction because he he had

0:36:27.520 --> 0:36:29.319
<v Speaker 2>me save it like two years ago, and I just

0:36:29.840 --> 0:36:31.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, we kept slipping through the crack. So he's

0:36:31.760 --> 0:36:34.520
<v Speaker 2>gonna come on next week for pulp fiction. Very nice,

0:36:34.880 --> 0:36:36.719
<v Speaker 2>all right, So let's get back to I mean, we

0:36:36.800 --> 0:36:40.440
<v Speaker 2>talked about how the the d D as we're going

0:36:40.520 --> 0:36:45.320
<v Speaker 2>to call it, moves around without yeah, without the pacemaker sells.

0:36:45.360 --> 0:36:48.840
<v Speaker 2>But that original true slime mold, the big single celled

0:36:48.880 --> 0:36:51.879
<v Speaker 2>one that's just made up of all the goopy cytoplasm.

0:36:52.400 --> 0:36:55.680
<v Speaker 2>We didn't really talk about what they do. And because

0:36:55.719 --> 0:36:57.359
<v Speaker 2>if you don't have cell walls, you're like, well, how's

0:36:57.400 --> 0:37:00.879
<v Speaker 2>this stuff moving around? It's actually made up of what's

0:37:00.880 --> 0:37:05.759
<v Speaker 2>called oscillating units, and so these units oscillate at different frequencies.

0:37:06.239 --> 0:37:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Depending what's going on, like where they are and then

0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:14.319
<v Speaker 2>what their little neighbor oscillating units are doing. And so

0:37:14.400 --> 0:37:17.720
<v Speaker 2>when they go close to food, they start oscillating, shaking

0:37:17.840 --> 0:37:21.080
<v Speaker 2>like hey, hey, I'm near some food. And then that

0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:23.880
<v Speaker 2>just sort of gets that flow. Everyone else starts oscillating

0:37:23.880 --> 0:37:26.319
<v Speaker 2>in a similar manner, and that gets that flow of

0:37:26.320 --> 0:37:28.640
<v Speaker 2>cytoplasm going in that food direction.

0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:32.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so the slime mold effectively moves to the

0:37:32.239 --> 0:37:36.160
<v Speaker 1>food because of that oscillating unit that looks again like

0:37:36.440 --> 0:37:39.840
<v Speaker 1>a fan spreading out going to find food and then

0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:42.600
<v Speaker 1>finding it, the slime mold moves toward it.

0:37:42.560 --> 0:37:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Or like you said, away from something that they don't like.

0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:50.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yes, which is pretty neat. So those are the

0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:52.800
<v Speaker 1>two things. It's moving toward food and moving away from something.

0:37:53.120 --> 0:37:55.719
<v Speaker 1>And one of the things that they found is that

0:37:55.800 --> 0:38:00.600
<v Speaker 1>slime mold can actually learn and not only learn to

0:38:00.680 --> 0:38:03.960
<v Speaker 1>like stay away from something, it can actually teach other

0:38:04.120 --> 0:38:07.719
<v Speaker 1>slime mold to stay away from it, even slime mold

0:38:07.760 --> 0:38:11.920
<v Speaker 1>it's never been introduced to it, or alternately, it can

0:38:12.000 --> 0:38:16.359
<v Speaker 1>teach this is the really the salt garter fact. It

0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:20.680
<v Speaker 1>can teach other slime mold that something that seems harmful

0:38:20.840 --> 0:38:22.040
<v Speaker 1>is actually harmless?

0:38:22.200 --> 0:38:25.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is a pretty cool experiment. Yeah, so these

0:38:25.440 --> 0:38:29.480
<v Speaker 2>researchers put slime molds. They built it a little tiny bridge.

0:38:29.520 --> 0:38:32.960
<v Speaker 2>It was very cute, and they coated this bridge in

0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:37.680
<v Speaker 2>a noxious substance. It wasn't harmful to them, it was harmless.

0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:40.359
<v Speaker 2>It was like salt or something, let's say. And then

0:38:40.440 --> 0:38:43.279
<v Speaker 2>they put the those little oat flakes on the other

0:38:43.360 --> 0:38:47.840
<v Speaker 2>side as their ultimate temptation. And so these first slime

0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:50.439
<v Speaker 2>molds start creeping up to it and sort of dipping

0:38:50.520 --> 0:38:54.280
<v Speaker 2>their little toe in the water and saying, this stuff

0:38:54.320 --> 0:38:58.200
<v Speaker 2>is pretty noxious. But then they learned, right like, oh okay,

0:38:58.239 --> 0:39:01.400
<v Speaker 2>so it's not actually harmful. I can go across this stuff.

0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:05.120
<v Speaker 2>And what they found was that it learned to cross

0:39:05.120 --> 0:39:08.799
<v Speaker 2>this little bridge just as fast as slime molds that

0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:12.279
<v Speaker 2>were placed on bridges that didn't have any coating going on.

0:39:12.760 --> 0:39:15.720
<v Speaker 1>Right, So it said, okay, this stuff's fine. It's gross,

0:39:15.800 --> 0:39:17.520
<v Speaker 1>is way too salty, but it's not gonna hurt me.

0:39:17.560 --> 0:39:19.520
<v Speaker 1>So I'm going to get to food just as fast.

0:39:19.640 --> 0:39:19.719
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:39:20.160 --> 0:39:22.880
<v Speaker 1>That's pretty amazing in and of self. But where it

0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:26.560
<v Speaker 1>gets crazy, yes, right, they we need like a banner

0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:27.799
<v Speaker 1>matter nole to come in.

0:39:27.719 --> 0:39:28.920
<v Speaker 2>And say that, yeah, totally.

0:39:29.680 --> 0:39:33.480
<v Speaker 1>So they take the slime mold and break it apart

0:39:33.560 --> 0:39:36.600
<v Speaker 1>and fuse it together with other slime molds that have

0:39:36.760 --> 0:39:40.279
<v Speaker 1>never been exposed to this noxious stuff before. They're called

0:39:40.360 --> 0:39:43.239
<v Speaker 1>naive and the other ones are called habituated. And those

0:39:43.320 --> 0:39:46.000
<v Speaker 1>naive ones when they encounter this noxious stuff like a

0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:49.759
<v Speaker 1>salt bridge for the first time, they don't approach it

0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:53.239
<v Speaker 1>with trepidation. They go right across it as fast as

0:39:53.280 --> 0:39:56.839
<v Speaker 1>the habituated ones that it's fused to. This is really

0:39:56.880 --> 0:39:59.759
<v Speaker 1>weird because this is the first time the stuff's encountering it,

0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:04.279
<v Speaker 1>and they think that somehow the habituated slime molds are

0:40:04.320 --> 0:40:07.240
<v Speaker 1>passing on the information like no, no, we know it's gross,

0:40:07.280 --> 0:40:11.359
<v Speaker 1>but it's actually fine to the naive slime molds. And

0:40:11.400 --> 0:40:14.040
<v Speaker 1>they figured out, chuck, that it doesn't matter if you

0:40:14.120 --> 0:40:18.239
<v Speaker 1>take three habituated slime molds and fuse them with one

0:40:18.320 --> 0:40:21.920
<v Speaker 1>naive slime mold, or take three naive slime molds and

0:40:22.000 --> 0:40:25.320
<v Speaker 1>one just one habituated slime mold, it's going to approach

0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:28.640
<v Speaker 1>us and move across it just as fast as in

0:40:28.680 --> 0:40:29.520
<v Speaker 1>either situation.

0:40:30.200 --> 0:40:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And then they also sort of figured out how

0:40:32.719 --> 0:40:36.920
<v Speaker 2>long this took, so the naive slime molds. They separated

0:40:36.960 --> 0:40:41.799
<v Speaker 2>after an hour of fusion with those habituated I'm gonna

0:40:41.800 --> 0:40:44.800
<v Speaker 2>call them in the no molds, okay, And it forgot.

0:40:45.000 --> 0:40:48.200
<v Speaker 2>It forgot that the coding was harmless, and it sort

0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:50.360
<v Speaker 2>of had to approach it with a little more trepidation.

0:40:50.960 --> 0:40:52.960
<v Speaker 2>But if they had been fused for three hours or

0:40:52.960 --> 0:40:58.040
<v Speaker 2>more and then separated, it it remembered. I mean, it

0:40:58.680 --> 0:41:02.120
<v Speaker 2>technically can't remember, but they do have this weird sort

0:41:02.160 --> 0:41:06.040
<v Speaker 2>of memory that works. And I think they even figured

0:41:06.040 --> 0:41:09.160
<v Speaker 2>out some of this snail trail stuff that they leave

0:41:09.200 --> 0:41:12.080
<v Speaker 2>behind acts as sort of like a spatial memory, because

0:41:12.480 --> 0:41:15.840
<v Speaker 2>they come across this snail trail and say, oh, someone's

0:41:15.840 --> 0:41:17.279
<v Speaker 2>already been here before.

0:41:16.960 --> 0:41:20.680
<v Speaker 1>Me, right, so there's no reason to go research this

0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:25.120
<v Speaker 1>area because there clearly wasn't food there. Yeah, and again

0:41:25.160 --> 0:41:27.839
<v Speaker 1>here's your ten minute reminder that slime mold don't have

0:41:27.920 --> 0:41:31.840
<v Speaker 1>brains or neuron So all of this is just just

0:41:31.920 --> 0:41:34.160
<v Speaker 1>astounding stuff that we're still trying to get to the

0:41:34.200 --> 0:41:37.239
<v Speaker 1>bottom up, Like that habituation thing. They're like, we don't know,

0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:39.200
<v Speaker 1>we have no idea, but we're going to go find

0:41:39.239 --> 0:41:41.120
<v Speaker 1>out and maybe in ten years we'll be able to

0:41:41.200 --> 0:41:42.879
<v Speaker 1>explain it right.

0:41:43.040 --> 0:41:48.480
<v Speaker 2>So eventually, you know, the people that are people that

0:41:48.520 --> 0:41:51.680
<v Speaker 2>are hip to the slime mold thing are like.

0:41:52.080 --> 0:41:53.080
<v Speaker 1>Trying to spread though.

0:41:53.200 --> 0:41:54.960
<v Speaker 2>They're trying to spread the word to me, like this

0:41:55.000 --> 0:41:57.480
<v Speaker 2>stuff is really amazing. They're doing TED talks on it.

0:41:57.480 --> 0:41:59.040
<v Speaker 2>It was a really good TED talk on it, in fact,

0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:04.279
<v Speaker 2>and some coders said, hey, wait a minute, you know

0:42:04.320 --> 0:42:06.759
<v Speaker 2>they're doing all this amazing stuff like the overlay of

0:42:06.800 --> 0:42:09.920
<v Speaker 2>the Tokyo subway and it's lining up perfectly. What if

0:42:09.960 --> 0:42:14.640
<v Speaker 2>we actually generated code of the slime mold and kind

0:42:14.640 --> 0:42:17.680
<v Speaker 2>of a reverse engineered it and we could see what

0:42:17.719 --> 0:42:19.279
<v Speaker 2>that looked like and how we could use it.

0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:25.560
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, this one artist named Sage Jensen basically figured

0:42:25.600 --> 0:42:30.080
<v Speaker 1>out or took I don't know exactly who figured out

0:42:30.120 --> 0:42:35.520
<v Speaker 1>exactly what the slime mold's algorithms were, but somebody wrote

0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:38.000
<v Speaker 1>them down and Sage Jensen came along and turned them

0:42:38.000 --> 0:42:42.040
<v Speaker 1>into a C plus plus code and basically ran these

0:42:42.080 --> 0:42:47.440
<v Speaker 1>things it's like algorithms, and found that these fractals started

0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:51.320
<v Speaker 1>forming that looked essentially just like slime mold moving across

0:42:51.360 --> 0:42:54.200
<v Speaker 1>a peatri edish in search of food, which is pretty

0:42:54.200 --> 0:42:56.719
<v Speaker 1>cool in and of itself. It was an art art

0:42:56.760 --> 0:43:01.480
<v Speaker 1>project basically, but someone on a tea of astrophysicists heard

0:43:01.480 --> 0:43:04.920
<v Speaker 1>about Sage Jensen's work and they used it when they

0:43:04.960 --> 0:43:11.240
<v Speaker 1>were stumped trying to figure out how to map the

0:43:11.600 --> 0:43:15.080
<v Speaker 1>invisible matter that makes up basically the structure of our universe.

0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:19.360
<v Speaker 1>That if we can just crack that nut, we'll understand

0:43:19.400 --> 0:43:23.040
<v Speaker 1>the universe exponentially better than we do now, but we

0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:25.600
<v Speaker 1>cannot figure out how to do it. And so, just

0:43:25.760 --> 0:43:29.560
<v Speaker 1>like with the ancient roads between the Roman cities or

0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:33.600
<v Speaker 1>the Tokyo subway map, someone figured out to use slime

0:43:33.600 --> 0:43:37.280
<v Speaker 1>mold to basically try to try to create the structure

0:43:37.360 --> 0:43:40.400
<v Speaker 1>of the universe. This invisible these invisible filaments.

0:43:40.640 --> 0:43:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, these filaments that came out of the Big Bang.

0:43:43.640 --> 0:43:46.440
<v Speaker 2>So I guess they went back to Sage Jensen and said,

0:43:47.080 --> 0:43:50.200
<v Speaker 2>first of all, Sage U c plus plus code. Isn't

0:43:50.200 --> 0:43:52.360
<v Speaker 2>it really just be minus code? And we're being honest,

0:43:53.560 --> 0:43:55.200
<v Speaker 2>And he said, that's not how it works. Get out

0:43:55.239 --> 0:43:55.520
<v Speaker 2>of the mouth.

0:43:55.719 --> 0:43:57.399
<v Speaker 1>That's great coding joke.

0:43:59.200 --> 0:44:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Thank you. It's my own coding joke, and I just.

0:44:01.880 --> 0:44:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Made it the only coding joke I think.

0:44:04.440 --> 0:44:06.720
<v Speaker 2>No, I think it's not a bug. It's a feature,

0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:10.759
<v Speaker 2>isn't that one? Oh that's true, true to old timy.

0:44:10.840 --> 0:44:15.000
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, they went to Sage and they said, you're

0:44:15.040 --> 0:44:17.000
<v Speaker 2>an artist, but this is pretty amazing. I think we

0:44:17.040 --> 0:44:21.520
<v Speaker 2>can apply it here. And they modified it. And what

0:44:21.560 --> 0:44:24.120
<v Speaker 2>they did was, and of course there's always oats involved,

0:44:25.120 --> 0:44:28.800
<v Speaker 2>they put a model in place with virtual slime mold cells,

0:44:28.840 --> 0:44:30.600
<v Speaker 2>and they put it on a map with thirty seven

0:44:30.640 --> 0:44:36.600
<v Speaker 2>thousand real galaxies and they used I guess, virtual piles

0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:40.800
<v Speaker 2>of food to represent the galaxies, and the bigger the galaxy,

0:44:40.840 --> 0:44:43.040
<v Speaker 2>the bigger the pile of food. And so they did

0:44:43.040 --> 0:44:46.640
<v Speaker 2>this modeling through the coating and had the virtual slime

0:44:46.680 --> 0:44:49.640
<v Speaker 2>mold seek out the most efficient way to reach this,

0:44:49.960 --> 0:44:53.680
<v Speaker 2>and I guess in theory they're hoping that they get

0:44:53.920 --> 0:44:56.200
<v Speaker 2>a sort of map of the universe out of it.

0:44:56.440 --> 0:44:59.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So when the slime mold was finished, they all

0:44:59.120 --> 0:45:03.040
<v Speaker 1>stood background that that's amazing. How accurate is it? And

0:45:03.080 --> 0:45:05.000
<v Speaker 1>they all just realize that they had no idea how

0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:09.319
<v Speaker 1>to verify but no, surely, Like I think what they're

0:45:09.320 --> 0:45:12.480
<v Speaker 1>doing is they're taking this as an initial, you know, guide,

0:45:12.600 --> 0:45:14.759
<v Speaker 1>and then they'll go back and try to figure out

0:45:14.840 --> 0:45:18.080
<v Speaker 1>how to verify it. And maybe the slime mold did

0:45:18.080 --> 0:45:21.000
<v Speaker 1>figure out the most efficient way to link together these galaxies.

0:45:21.040 --> 0:45:25.720
<v Speaker 1>But that would be I can't even put a word

0:45:25.760 --> 0:45:28.520
<v Speaker 1>on that of what that would how impressive that would

0:45:28.560 --> 0:45:31.920
<v Speaker 1>be if the slime mold recreated how the universe is

0:45:31.960 --> 0:45:35.000
<v Speaker 1>invisibly linked together, the structure of it.

0:45:35.080 --> 0:45:37.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, what if slime mold is God?

0:45:37.880 --> 0:45:39.640
<v Speaker 1>What if we're your sleep right now and this is

0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:41.160
<v Speaker 1>all just one dream, chuck.

0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:44.240
<v Speaker 2>The other cool thing they figured out with the slime

0:45:44.280 --> 0:45:47.920
<v Speaker 2>mold moving around is when they were researching them, they

0:45:47.960 --> 0:45:50.520
<v Speaker 2>found that they those mazes that they were running through,

0:45:50.960 --> 0:45:52.960
<v Speaker 2>they went even faster through the maze when they had

0:45:52.960 --> 0:45:55.920
<v Speaker 2>some sort of noise like a bright light or something

0:45:56.080 --> 0:45:57.680
<v Speaker 2>like we said. They like to go away from things

0:45:57.719 --> 0:46:01.399
<v Speaker 2>they don't like, and that negative input of that light

0:46:02.040 --> 0:46:04.160
<v Speaker 2>basically made them say, all right, let's let's pick up

0:46:04.160 --> 0:46:06.879
<v Speaker 2>the pace and make make these decisions quicker and get

0:46:06.880 --> 0:46:07.719
<v Speaker 2>to that food.

0:46:07.800 --> 0:46:10.800
<v Speaker 1>And stop fussing around. I don't like this light staring

0:46:10.840 --> 0:46:11.120
<v Speaker 1>at me.

0:46:11.520 --> 0:46:13.560
<v Speaker 2>I think we kind of blew some minds today.

0:46:14.280 --> 0:46:16.240
<v Speaker 1>I think so, my mind's definitely been blown.

0:46:16.400 --> 0:46:17.759
<v Speaker 2>Did you want to cover the Amazon thing?

0:46:18.640 --> 0:46:23.960
<v Speaker 1>Nope? Okay, good, that's it for slimld unless you got

0:46:23.960 --> 0:46:25.000
<v Speaker 1>anything else, right now? Do you?

0:46:25.040 --> 0:46:25.799
<v Speaker 2>I got nothing else?

0:46:26.040 --> 0:46:27.879
<v Speaker 1>We'll have to revisit us in ten years. And thanks

0:46:27.920 --> 0:46:31.160
<v Speaker 1>to Dave rus for helping us with this one. And

0:46:31.520 --> 0:46:34.359
<v Speaker 1>since I said Dave Ruse, I think Chuck, it means

0:46:34.400 --> 0:46:35.720
<v Speaker 1>it's time for listener mail.

0:46:38.239 --> 0:46:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Hey guys, I'm gonna call this night Trap response.

0:46:43.360 --> 0:46:45.359
<v Speaker 1>I just laugh every time I hear those words together.

0:46:45.440 --> 0:46:48.080
<v Speaker 2>Now, no night Trap. This is from Aaron. Hey, guys,

0:46:48.080 --> 0:46:50.160
<v Speaker 2>just finish the Night Trap video game show. Thanks for

0:46:50.200 --> 0:46:53.520
<v Speaker 2>bringing it to everyone. I own the twenty fifth anniversary edition.

0:46:53.960 --> 0:46:55.680
<v Speaker 2>Like you said, it's not a good game, but has

0:46:55.719 --> 0:46:59.040
<v Speaker 2>its moments. One other game worth noting is called Double Switch.

0:46:59.440 --> 0:47:02.480
<v Speaker 2>It's the same style and video camera control quality, and

0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:06.960
<v Speaker 2>it starred Corey Ham. Perhaps arguably a little better game,

0:47:07.680 --> 0:47:10.120
<v Speaker 2>but still had the same thing going on. Really, I'm

0:47:10.160 --> 0:47:12.480
<v Speaker 2>sure your research finds lots of things that don't quite

0:47:12.520 --> 0:47:15.040
<v Speaker 2>make it into the final show. Aaron, we did not

0:47:15.080 --> 0:47:17.960
<v Speaker 2>know about Double Switch, so nice work there. Yeah, and

0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:19.719
<v Speaker 2>Aaron says, I've listened to so many shows I feel

0:47:19.760 --> 0:47:21.919
<v Speaker 2>that Chuck and I are some sort of long lost

0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:24.919
<v Speaker 2>brothers separated at birth. I generally agree with just about

0:47:24.920 --> 0:47:27.319
<v Speaker 2>everything he says, and I'm always fully entertained. It would

0:47:27.320 --> 0:47:28.680
<v Speaker 2>be nice to meet you guys if you ever get

0:47:28.719 --> 0:47:32.640
<v Speaker 2>another tour started and make it back to Michigan. Keep

0:47:32.680 --> 0:47:34.640
<v Speaker 2>up the good work of finish your book. And I

0:47:34.680 --> 0:47:38.160
<v Speaker 2>have the pre order poster in my office and I've

0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:42.040
<v Speaker 2>converted friends and family, So that is from Aaron and Michigan.

0:47:42.080 --> 0:47:44.879
<v Speaker 2>And we're definitely gonna start touring again. I would say

0:47:44.920 --> 0:47:48.640
<v Speaker 2>probably next year, although we haven't really talked much about.

0:47:48.360 --> 0:47:52.239
<v Speaker 1>It, no, but we need to. It's definitely starting to

0:47:52.239 --> 0:47:55.200
<v Speaker 1>get to be time to get talking, I guess, although

0:47:55.960 --> 0:47:58.040
<v Speaker 1>I admit I have not missed the traveling. I've missed

0:47:58.040 --> 0:47:59.800
<v Speaker 1>being on stage, but not the traveling.

0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:03.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know that's what they say. That's what rockstars say.

0:48:03.520 --> 0:48:05.279
<v Speaker 1>It's not the heat, it's the humidity.

0:48:07.239 --> 0:48:09.880
<v Speaker 2>Now they say that, you know, you get paid to travel,

0:48:09.920 --> 0:48:11.759
<v Speaker 2>you don't get paid to play shows.

0:48:12.400 --> 0:48:15.440
<v Speaker 1>I've never heard that before, but it really makes sense. Yeah,

0:48:15.920 --> 0:48:17.839
<v Speaker 1>if you can figure out how to get paid for both,

0:48:17.880 --> 0:48:20.319
<v Speaker 1>then you're really really doing something right.

0:48:21.280 --> 0:48:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Good stuff. Yeah, And if we get back to Michigan,

0:48:23.560 --> 0:48:25.879
<v Speaker 2>we've already done Detroit. We've had a lot of calls

0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:27.280
<v Speaker 2>over here for ann Arbor, so maybe.

0:48:27.120 --> 0:48:32.960
<v Speaker 1>That's where we go. Yes, well, who is that again, Aaron? Aaron,

0:48:32.960 --> 0:48:35.200
<v Speaker 1>That's what I was gonna guess. Thanks a lot, Aaron,

0:48:35.239 --> 0:48:37.080
<v Speaker 1>that was a great email. Thanks for the Corey Haym

0:48:37.160 --> 0:48:39.600
<v Speaker 1>reference and all that stuff. And if you want to

0:48:39.600 --> 0:48:41.799
<v Speaker 1>get in touch with us, like Aaron did, you can

0:48:41.840 --> 0:48:47.160
<v Speaker 1>send us an email to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:48:48.719 --> 0:48:51.600
<v Speaker 2>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:48:51.680 --> 0:48:55.879
<v Speaker 2>more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:48:56.000 --> 0:48:57.840
<v Speaker 2>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.