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Speaker 1: Coolson Media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to it Could Happen Here show about things falling apart,

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Speaker 2: and today the thing falling apart is the Galactic Empire.

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Speaker 2: This is episode four of our four part series talking

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Speaker 2: about the politics of and Or season two. And Or

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Speaker 2: has sadly come to a close. This will be our

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Speaker 2: final discussion episode talking about Ander season two episodes ten, eleven,

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Speaker 2: and twelve. I'm Garrison Davis been joined by Robert Evans

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Speaker 2: and Mio Wong. What a what a exhilarating For four

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Speaker 2: weeks this has been.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna miss it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're getting relief from the horrors to live the

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Speaker 1: horrors in another universe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it sucks now that we have to just

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Speaker 2: do all this stuff except like the eight years in

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Speaker 2: the past version, because the level in which they've advanced

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Speaker 2: here is far beyond certainly the US is revolutionary potential.

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Speaker 3: Alas, yes, tragic.

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Speaker 1: Hey, if anyone wants to be our mom Mouffbud taken

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Speaker 1: applications you you could, you can be the good liberal.

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Speaker 1: You can be it.

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Speaker 4: Oh man, I'll take a fucking Krieger at this point.

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Speaker 2: So I think we're gonna do these episodes a little

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Speaker 2: bit differently. I'm not gonna do a whole synopsis for

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Speaker 2: each of these episodes, since for these last three the

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Speaker 2: show has mostly a showed plot for emotional and character beats,

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Speaker 2: So instead, I want to quickly go over each of

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Speaker 2: those character points and then we can discuss those in detail,

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Speaker 2: and most of our discussion will probably be around episode ten.

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Speaker 2: Make it stop, yep. Let's start at the beginning Lonnie's

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Speaker 2: last meeting.

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Speaker 4: Ah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the ICP double agent Leanna Young calls Luthen

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Speaker 2: to an emergency meeting to give him one final batch

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Speaker 2: of intel after burning his cover. It's really a shocking

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Speaker 2: and worrying when we see Luthen and Lonnie meeting in public.

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Speaker 2: That that that that already lets you know like, oh

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Speaker 2: this is this is the end. Stuff is like the

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Speaker 2: most jover it's ever been for Lonnie.

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Speaker 4: There's a great line that got one of the strongest

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Speaker 4: reactions with the folks I was watching it with, when

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Speaker 4: Luthan's about to head out and he's talking with Clia

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Speaker 4: and she's like, don't do this meeting.

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Speaker 2: If it doesn't look perfect, we don't engage.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and Luthen responds, I think we've used up all

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Speaker 4: the perfect, and if you're stuff all the perfect, it's this,

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Speaker 4: it's this really good. There's some very impressive like face

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Speaker 4: acting from scarsguard here where you you see he's There's

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Speaker 4: so much he wants to say to this person, who,

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Speaker 4: as we'll discuss, is essentially his daughter. But ultimately all

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Speaker 4: that happens is she says, Tucky's shirt.

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Speaker 2: It's insane.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So he meets with Lonnie. Lonnie needs like assurances for

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Speaker 2: like him and his family's safety. Luthen tells them that

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Speaker 2: they'll be able to flee to Yavin together. Sure, sure, buddy. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 2: by accessing Deadra's computer files, Lonnie learns that the Emperor's

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Speaker 2: new energy project, the Calcite mining On Gorman the kyber

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Speaker 2: On Jetta are actually part of a massive super weapon.

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Speaker 2: Luthin has worned that Dedra and the ISB are preparing

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Speaker 2: for a raid on Corouson, and he may be the target.

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Speaker 2: Luthen ends up killing Lonnie to tie up loose ends

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Speaker 2: and passes off the information to Claya to relay it

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Speaker 2: to the rebel alliance while he goes to thermite their

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Speaker 2: computer hard drive say yea quotes I'll do the burn again.

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Speaker 2: It's it's it's jover like our our shop, our little home,

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Speaker 2: our little base of operations in Coruscant is getting destroyed.

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Speaker 2: This is this is truly the end of an era here.

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Speaker 2: Luthen either knows or has like decided that he has

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Speaker 2: run out of time, and the only way to be

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Speaker 2: sure that the information safely reaches the Alliance is to

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Speaker 2: give the is B a distraction, and that distraction is

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Speaker 2: himself elf.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and again it's very consistent. He's clearly trying to

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Speaker 4: buy time for Claya to escape, right, Like, that's that's

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Speaker 4: part part of his purpose here. Yeah, and I think

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Speaker 4: he's also just done, you know, totally, he's done. He's

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Speaker 4: tired and he doesn't have it in him to run anymore.

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Speaker 2: And that's kind of what he discusses in this next section,

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Speaker 2: which is such an efficient piece of screenwriting. When Dedra

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Speaker 2: arrives at Luthen's gallery, Yeah, you can. You can only

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Speaker 2: hide in plain sight for so long, and that time

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Speaker 2: has come. As as Dedre arrives, Luthen says, here you

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Speaker 2: are at last, uh huh. Every line in their exchange like,

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Speaker 2: but before before she lets him know like, hey, I

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Speaker 2: know you are, like but like every line leading up

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Speaker 2: to that is a double entendre, like like every single

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Speaker 2: exchange they have is actually communicating something else, and it's wild.

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Speaker 2: Forgery is the sad curse of antiquities. At the moment,

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Speaker 2: only two two pieces of questionable providence in the gallery.

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Speaker 2: Insane stuff.

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Speaker 3: It's great.

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Speaker 4: It's insane writing, and it's it's perfect that like she

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Speaker 4: keeps trying to like get some sort of acknowledgment that

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Speaker 4: she's one. That's all she wants out of this is

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Speaker 4: for him to basically she's actually kind of desperate for

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Speaker 4: him to say, you did good, kid, you cost crazy,

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Speaker 4: And all he does is thrift shade at her.

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Speaker 1: Like the shit sucker.

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Speaker 4: Rebellions already gone, you dip shit fascist, like you fucking.

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Speaker 2: Failed, like referring to himself and in some ways her

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Speaker 2: as like as an antiquity, like like like you said,

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Speaker 2: like he is tired, he has done. He is he's

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Speaker 2: kind of a relic for the current era of the rebellion.

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Speaker 3: And you don't know it yet, but so are you?

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Speaker 2: Yes, and so is so is her. Only two pieces

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Speaker 2: of questionable providence are in the gallery amazing, So Lutha

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Speaker 2: and Hans Dedra ceremonial dagger. She asks if it's real.

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Speaker 2: He smiles and remarks, we still don't know.

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Speaker 4: And the it's like, it's amazing.

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Speaker 2: I get every single line. It's it's it's it's like

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Speaker 2: the screenwriter's playing with us. Just amazing. I think Tom

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Speaker 2: Besseol and Tony Gilroy uh for these episodes. Just phenomenal. Dedra, Now,

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Speaker 2: I'm nervous, Luthed, you've come all this way. And then

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Speaker 2: she unveils this, this artifact that she is brought to

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Speaker 2: Luthen for evaluation. She says, it's a little damaged perhaps,

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Speaker 2: but I'd say it's held its value. As she looks

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Speaker 2: Luthen up and down again, same thing, same thing, very efficient.

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Speaker 2: Luthen is a little damage, but he's held a value.

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Speaker 2: And Dedra reveals the vintage Imperial StarPath unit that first

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Speaker 2: brought Luthen's operation under Dedra's eye. And and now that

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Speaker 2: like both of them have their cards like displayed on

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Speaker 2: the table. They they get to exchange a little bit

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Speaker 2: more clearly without having to use these like coded coded

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Speaker 2: phrases like they were before. And they had fascinating back

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Speaker 2: and forth. She talks about how Luthan's been hiding in

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Speaker 2: the shelter of imperial peace and quiet and just wants

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Speaker 2: to burn the galaxy down. And Luthan gets to gets

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Speaker 2: to poke at her for how he's been aware of

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Speaker 2: of her this entire time and she's only learned who

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Speaker 2: he is. Quote, I've known you all along. Hardly seems fair.

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Speaker 2: She says, you disgusted me everything you stand for, and

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Speaker 2: he says, do you know why freedom scares you? This

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Speaker 2: is what Dedra's last arc is like really about, and

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Speaker 2: it eventually, you know, paradoxically leads to leads to her fate. Now.

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Speaker 2: I think probably the best line in this little exchange

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Speaker 2: is Luthan telling Dedrah, quote, you're too late. The rebellion

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Speaker 2: isn't here anymore. It's flown away everywhere. Now there's a

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Speaker 2: whole galaxy out there waiting to disgust youth great light.

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Speaker 4: Yeah again, it's he's this whole time, he's been like

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Speaker 4: increasingly cooking her like.

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Speaker 2: And also cooking his heart by time that's his hard

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Speaker 2: time burns up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's just it's just some great,

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Speaker 4: some great stuff and the Dedra we get some great

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Speaker 4: face acting.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, what is it?

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Speaker 4: Denise is her name, right, yeah, gow, I think where

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Speaker 4: you just see in a second, she sees the smoke

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Speaker 4: and then Luthen collapses because he has stabbed himself in

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Speaker 4: the heart, which is also like it serves as another

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Speaker 4: kind of rappost to every argument that she's been making,

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Speaker 4: like it's his ultimate counter to her claims that like,

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Speaker 4: you're fundamentally selfish. You're just doing this for yourself and

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Speaker 4: your own, you know, desire. He's like, no, bitch, I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna stab myself in the heart.

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Speaker 3: Like you don't know what commitment is.

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Speaker 2: It's a great Yeah. He uses this, uses this ceremonial

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Speaker 2: digger that he that he earlier hands to Dedra and

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Speaker 2: stabs himself so that the Empire will be able to

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Speaker 2: torture and try to extract information from him about the rebellion.

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Speaker 1: But you gotta have some explosives, like you can't be

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Speaker 1: relying on staggering yourself with.

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Speaker 2: This is this is like a screenwriting thing, like has

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Speaker 2: to get out of this. They have to they have

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Speaker 2: to access the computer later. Come on, I think I

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Speaker 2: think this is this is very like poetically written. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's it's beautiful. I like like the romance

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Speaker 2: of it. Yeah, but man, Detra fucked up so bad here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, fundamentally ruins absolutely her entire life.

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Speaker 2: The emotion's really got the better for she really wanted

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Speaker 2: to like like win one over on on access to

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Speaker 2: like validate herself and her obsession the same way like

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Speaker 2: Cyril does. And it fucking bites her in the ass.

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Speaker 1: It destroys the empire.

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Speaker 2: It destroys the entire empire.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I like that they they had her simultaneously.

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Speaker 4: She's both right and that if she had been listened to,

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Speaker 4: she could have stopped the rebel victory. But also she

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Speaker 4: fundamentally like destroys the Death Star as a result of

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Speaker 4: her insistence on being right.

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Speaker 1: It fits into that old Marxist category of objectively revolutionary.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just by like how.

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Speaker 1: She fucked this up specifically, And yeah, get to what

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Speaker 1: you know. I think we've talked about how how like

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Speaker 1: the Death Star plans got stolen like from her fucking heart, right, yeah, or.

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Speaker 2: Like the the the learning of the Death Star existence

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Speaker 2: through the hard drive.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sorry say yeah yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they don't have the plans yet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So Luthen's transferred to the hospital and then we

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Speaker 2: get a flashback with Luthen as an early Imperial Army

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Speaker 2: sergeant involved in a massacre on Claya's home planet. We

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Speaker 2: see him like like huddled over in his ship with

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Speaker 2: a flask, repeating the words make.

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Speaker 3: It, make it stop, make it stop.

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Speaker 2: As like sounds of like carnage and destruction go on

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Speaker 2: in the background.

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Speaker 4: What's what's interesting to me is, yeah, they have You're

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Speaker 4: basically just hearing what's happening outside. He's in an Imperial

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Speaker 4: Army uniform, and you're hearing like radio chatter, and it's

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Speaker 4: radio chatter that could have come from like any war

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Speaker 4: of the last twenty years. Like it's very much modern

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Speaker 4: radio call. It's it sounds like a lot of the

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Speaker 4: shit you heard and like the Collateral Murder video, like

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Speaker 4: some of the stuff that got leaked by Chelsea Manning

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Speaker 4: where people are like, yeah, hit everything on that hill dies,

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Speaker 4: you know, anything past this this point in this like

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Speaker 4: line of buildings, anyone you see on the heat scope,

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Speaker 4: kill them, Like it's that kind of stuff, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: And it's it's it's very much like it's very non

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Speaker 4: Star Wars chatter.

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Speaker 2: You know. He's he's like horrified at like what he's doing.

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Speaker 2: He's trying to find ust to cope with it.

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Speaker 4: He's drinking out of a flask and yeah, just like

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Speaker 4: repeatedly repeating to himself, make it stop.

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Speaker 2: Just this like very short scene like recontactilizes a whole

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Speaker 2: bunch of things about Luthern's character, Yes, including his behavior

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Speaker 2: on Ferrix during during the riot, where he doesn't get

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Speaker 2: involved and instead looks on from distance with like a

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Speaker 2: very like a very blank expression. And like when I

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Speaker 2: first saw that episode, to me, it felt like Lucan

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Speaker 2: was like first confronted with like the fatality that he's

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Speaker 2: dealing with, like like confronted with like the consequences for

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Speaker 2: actually engaging in revolution, because he's always been kind of

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Speaker 2: in the shadows. He's been more of this like orchestrator.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't see like that, like the tactile death that

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Speaker 2: accompanies his actions. It's like that's how I first saw

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Speaker 2: that scene. And now this has been fully recontextualized as

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Speaker 2: like erics is like a PTSD moment for him, like

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Speaker 2: it's this is that's that's not the first time he's

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Speaker 2: seeing combat. Yes, this is this is. It changes the

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Speaker 2: way you can now look back at that scene, which

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Speaker 2: is very, very cool.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's also interesting to think that he's putting

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Speaker 4: himself in the perspective as much as anything of the

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Speaker 4: imperials doing the massacre. Yes, yeah, as opposed to the

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Speaker 4: civilian victims of the massacre.

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Speaker 3: I read an interview with Tony where a parent.

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Speaker 4: Because they did not have Luthern's backstory set up in

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Speaker 4: season one, like they didn't fully know where he was

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Speaker 4: going to go.

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Speaker 2: And have a single one nail Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 4: And it was apparently Scarsguard who was like, don't have

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Speaker 4: him be another person who's pissed, like who just hates

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Speaker 4: the Empire because it took everything from him, like.

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Speaker 2: A normal revenge story where like the Empire like tells

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Speaker 2: his family so that he becomes an insurgent.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, And I really I think it's beautiful that, like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: his backstory is that, no, he was made complicit. Like however,

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Speaker 4: whatever got him into the army in the first place,

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Speaker 4: maybe just conscription. You know, he may not have even

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Speaker 4: had a choice to join, but the Empire forces him

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Speaker 4: to do, like puts him in a position, and he's

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Speaker 4: it's as much discussed with himself that he goes along

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Speaker 4: with it as far as he does, and you get

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Speaker 4: in those lines that he's just repeating him to himself

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Speaker 4: over and over again as he like make it Like

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Speaker 4: that's his whole motivation, right, Like that's the next twenty

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Speaker 4: years of his life. Are him trying to make it stop?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the title of the episode. Yeah, we'll talk

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Speaker 2: more about that and his motivation at the end when

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Speaker 2: we discussed kind of Claia, speaking of which, in this flashback,

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Speaker 2: it is shot from the perspective of Claia hiding in

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Speaker 2: like a cubby on on this ship. Yeah, and Luthen

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Speaker 2: named I think layer Lar, which.

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Speaker 4: Is Layers Sergeant Lair is an original name. Well, we

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Speaker 4: don't know what his fearcht was, but he just reverses it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which no, no, but like this is this is

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Speaker 2: this is also like poetic, right, this is this is

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Speaker 2: this is this is Star Wars poetry, right, it's like

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Speaker 2: poetry at rhymes.

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Speaker 1: Pop seck wise, don't do that. I just I just

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Speaker 1: got to put this in there. Don't do that.

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Speaker 5: Do better.

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Speaker 2: But Sergeant Layer finds Claya as like a six year

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Speaker 2: old hiding hiding on this ship. We then go back

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Speaker 2: to the present as Claiya infiltrates a space hospital to

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Speaker 2: get to Luthen. Intercut with flashbacks showing how Luthen used

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Speaker 2: his military experience to train Claya in insurgent warfare. So

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Speaker 2: here we see like Luthen being kept alive in this

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Speaker 2: Corroiscant hospital for later interrogation, and then suddenly Dedra is

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Speaker 2: arrested in the hospital by an ISB. Marshall for at

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Speaker 2: first unclear reasons which we will get into later. The

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Speaker 2: ICP has found Lonnie's body, so there's a dead iced

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Speaker 2: B agent in Cororriscant. They've heard of how Dedra did

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Speaker 2: this raid without authorization without notifying the agent now in

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Speaker 2: charge of the AXIS investigation, and then she's taken into custody.

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Speaker 2: In these flashbacks, we see Luthen and Clia going town

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Speaker 2: to town pawning historical artifacts while he teaches young klaya

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Speaker 2: insurgent warfare. One of the most devastating exchanges is when

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Speaker 2: Luthen describes Claia as his daughter to a shopkeeper to

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Speaker 2: help like negotiate a price, and afterwards Claya asks, am

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Speaker 2: I your daughter? Now? He replies, when it's useful.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, she's and then he and then he says, I'm

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Speaker 4: Luthen you're Clia like, that's all we need to know right.

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Speaker 2: Now, that that's who we are now. Yeah, Claiah says, like,

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Speaker 2: I'll have to think about that, and Luthen says, sometimes

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Speaker 2: it's not up to us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Another exchange happens after Claio watches this like Imperial firing

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Speaker 2: line kill a batch of kids who are allegedly suspected

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Speaker 2: of shooting a stormtrooper. I think it probably could have

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Speaker 2: actually been Luthen, It's unclear, and it essentially just demonstrates

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Speaker 2: like collective punishment, right, and and Claia gets very upset

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Speaker 2: at watching, uh this massacre and runs off to Luthen

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Speaker 2: and also, like interestingly, like when Luthen knows that this

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Speaker 2: is going to happen, he like chooses to like not watch.

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Speaker 2: He's like, we don't need to be here. We can

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Speaker 2: we can, we can just leave. But but Claia chooses

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Speaker 2: to stay and watch and then runs back to him

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Speaker 2: and and he he tells her we fight to win.

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Speaker 2: That means we lose, lose and lose and lose and

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Speaker 2: lose until we're ready. Yeah, all you know now is

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Speaker 2: how much you hate you bank, that you hide, that

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Speaker 2: you keep it alive until you know what to do

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Speaker 2: with it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I love both that He's he's attempting to

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Speaker 4: give her as much like agency as he can within

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Speaker 4: this situation where he's also like crafting her into a person.

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Speaker 4: And so like, if she decides she wants to go

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Speaker 4: see this massacre, He'll let her do it. Like he's

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Speaker 4: not going to he's not going to try to make her.

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Speaker 4: But if that's what she wants, he's not going to

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Speaker 4: stop her. And then when she's seen what she needs

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Speaker 4: to see, he's going to give her the best advice

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Speaker 4: that he can give her. There's another line coming where

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Speaker 4: he's She asks if he's scared, and he's like, only

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Speaker 4: about what I'm doing to you, right that like you

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Speaker 4: Like he is still deeply he feels deeply compromised by

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Speaker 4: this position he's put himself in with this only other

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Speaker 4: person that he really can trust.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. They do their first like large scale direct action together. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: on the Emperor's home planet of Naboo. He teaches her

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Speaker 2: how to blend into the surroundings as they remote debt

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Speaker 2: night and explosive planted on a bridge. While in the present,

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Speaker 2: Claia disguises herself as a nurse to disappear into the

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Speaker 2: hospital where Luthen's being held and blows up the hospital

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Speaker 2: parking lot as a distraction to get to Lutherin. These

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Speaker 2: two things mirror each other. It's like poetry at rhymes.

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Speaker 2: Clia says to Luthin, you're afraid, He says, I'm only

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Speaker 2: afraid of what I'm doing to you, as he hands

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Speaker 2: this child a detonator.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Man, she's not willing to she can't make herself use

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Speaker 4: it yet.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like she was almost willing to

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Speaker 2: psych herself up. Luthan actually took it away and had

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Speaker 2: himself do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But that scene by itself where he's like telling her

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Speaker 2: not to like look at it, to make sure you're

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Speaker 2: like looking at me, only turn after everyone else has turned.

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Speaker 2: Very fun stuff happening in Star Wars.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's it's great.

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Speaker 4: Like the whole the decision he made he makes here

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Speaker 4: is like, like you see a lot about their relationship

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Speaker 4: and again this like how deeply compromised he feels by it.

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Speaker 4: Of both like I have to get this person ready

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Speaker 4: for what's necessary and also I have to protect her

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Speaker 4: from like the worst things that we're going to have

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Speaker 4: to do together, Like he does want to remain primarily

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Speaker 4: the one complicit, so I think in part because he

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Speaker 4: does believe, I mean fundamentally, that's the core of his character.

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Speaker 3: He does believe she has a future outside.

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Speaker 2: Totally is That's the entire point of what he's doing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: do you know what else is necessary, Robert for.

368
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Speaker 4: Us to throw to ads because otherwise we can't keep

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Speaker 4: this moveable feast on the road.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we are back back in the present day on Corrissant.

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Speaker 2: Clia finally reaches Lutheran in his hospital room and and

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Speaker 2: I guess, like leading up to this, to this moment,

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Speaker 2: it's unclear if she's going to try to like rescue him,

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Speaker 2: like extract him, and no, there's no time for that.

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Speaker 2: She takes him off life support and lets him die.

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Speaker 2: There is no escape for his character. Yeah, like Luthern

377
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Speaker 2: never gets to see that sunrise, but he did everything

378
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Speaker 2: he could to give the rebellion the best chance, and

379
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Speaker 2: Claia gets to finish and like live out what he started.

380
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Speaker 2: He wants to give Claia that sunrise, and like this

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Speaker 2: this relates to his core motivation as a character. He's

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Speaker 2: not getting revenge against the Empire for killing his family

383
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Speaker 2: or something like that kind of cliched stories is not

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Speaker 2: what they're doing here. Instead, this is all all about Clia.

385
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Speaker 2: It's about how he's like found Claia and both of

386
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Speaker 2: them are broken by what he has done. So then

387
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Speaker 2: he spends the rest of his life building the rebellion

388
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Speaker 2: for Claia so that she can live on and she

389
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Speaker 2: can beat there. And that's the entire point of him.

390
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Speaker 2: Like that, that is what's driving him. He is like

391
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Speaker 2: the most selfless character. Tony in an interview said, quote,

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Speaker 2: there are only a certain number of reasons that you

393
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Speaker 2: can change your life, and one of them is just

394
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Speaker 2: absolute self disgust. So we found a way for him

395
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Speaker 2: to have a belly full of it at the right moment.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I love that that, Like that's his whole

397
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Speaker 4: motivation ultimately, is like undoing the only part of what

398
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Speaker 4: he was involved in that he can undo, which is

399
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Speaker 4: saving this person. And like saving this person involves destroying

400
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Speaker 4: the thing that took her life away from her.

401
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Speaker 2: Yeah, the entire apparatus of the Empire. Yeah, yeah, I

402
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 2: think we're kind of wrapped up with this episode here,

403
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 2: But like the Clay Hospital, like infiltration sequence is superb,

404
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 2: so good, like one one person doing all of this

405
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 2: stuff to the absolute funnlement of like the Imperial Troopers.

406
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Speaker 2: She's really embodying the line from Rogue one, make ten

407
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 2: men feel like a hundred Yeah, and yeah, she's able

408
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 2: to infiltrate this hospital, like she's working with a team

409
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 2: of like ten people and it's and it's just her

410
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Speaker 2: shoutouts to the Granny alien in the elevator. Very very

411
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Speaker 2: great little comedy moment.

412
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's runnable.

413
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but unlessly either have anything else to say about

414
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Speaker 2: episode ten, I.

415
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Speaker 3: Mean, yeah, I like this.

416
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Speaker 4: This is obviously like my favorite episode of this particular batch, maybe.

417
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Speaker 2: The best in the whole series. Like this is absolutely Yeah.

418
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Speaker 4: I love the Luthenan Claya moments. I love seeing like

419
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Speaker 4: how at the same time this like hint when you're

420
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Speaker 4: seeing them kind of haggle over the price of this

421
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Speaker 4: antiquity that they've got that like Okay, So Clay always

422
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 4: had this this degree of like cunning and yeah, this

423
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Speaker 4: ability to kind of like recognize what's going on, which

424
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Speaker 4: probably hows you survived in the first place. Right, She's

425
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Speaker 4: she was always someone who saw more than other people.

426
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Speaker 2: Which she's the girl's it.

427
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Speaker 4: Yeah, And at the same time, you get this piece

428
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 4: of Luthan like there must have been like whatever he

429
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 4: was before he joined the military, it was somebody who

430
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 4: had this kind of deep knowledge of antiquities and probably

431
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Speaker 4: this desire to make something of his life other than

432
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Speaker 4: what became of it and all that he's got left

433
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 4: of it is like utilizing that real piece of himself

434
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 4: to make a fake person, right, Like That's which is

435
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 4: such an interesting character beat for him, that like this,

436
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 4: this thing that is probably closest to the real Luthan,

437
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 4: the one that existed before his military service, before the

438
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 4: Empire ruined him, is completely remade in the service of

439
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 4: making himself into something he's not.

440
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 1: So when I first saw this, I was really worried

441
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: because I think one of those interesting parts about Clay

442
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: as a character is that she is the only person

443
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: that Luthan trusts absolutely, right, She's the only person that

444
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,360
Speaker 1: he She's fully as an equal. Yeah, she's the only

445
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 1: one who has all the information that he has. And

446
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 1: you know, I was like kind of worried that it

447
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: was Okay, well now she's effectively his daughter, and it's like, no,

448
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: it's actually like she is still the only person. Yeah,

449
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 1: Like even though Luthan has been sort of raising her

450
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: like is, like he's been trying to raise her as

451
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: an equal as much as much as he possibly can.

452
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: I think that's a really really yeah, sort of fascinating

453
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: like way for this thing to have gone.

454
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 2: Like the actress of Claya has said, like, like from

455
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 2: Claya's perspective, like she doesn't really fully see Luthin like

456
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 2: as her father figure because like inherently like he was

457
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 2: like involved in the actual killing of like of her family,

458
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 2: like she she is she has found a way to

459
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 2: kind of love him through that. But it's it's not

460
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 2: like it's not like that that like immediate familial love

461
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: like it's it's it's it's a different rationalization that she

462
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 2: can still like give him like a final kiss on

463
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: his deathbed and like does like does care for him,

464
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 2: but like it's so much more like complicated and murky

465
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 2: and like m like roped in with politics and roped

466
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: in with Yeah.

467
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 4: But here's here's the thing what I'll say about that,

468
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 4: And and this is kind of my favorite part of

469
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 4: that is I can see how she would be like

470
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 4: this feeling I have towards them, like isn't like what

471
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 4: someone would feel towards a father. But also she doesn't

472
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 4: really know how people feel about their parents because she

473
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 4: didn't get to have them very long.

474
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: Keep people can't feel like that can feel about their father.

475
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 4: Feeling both this deep sense of love and disgust towards

476
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 4: your parents is a totally normal.

477
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 3: Experience, and she just doesn't.

478
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 4: I think maybe there's a degree in which she doesn't

479
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 4: even really realize how how common.

480
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 2: That is because of what was taken from her. No,

481
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 2: that's a good point. That's a good point. Yeah, all right,

482
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: Episode eleven, who else knows Krenick and Dedra queen out together?

483
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, look at them go so detrasid this interrogation

484
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: chamber and cretic grills her. How this piece of information good?

485
00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 3: He's so good?

486
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: House piece of information has escaped containment and Dedra's Dedra's

487
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 2: face strote this whole scene. Oh my gosh.

488
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 4: She comes into it. You can tell she thinks I'm

489
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 4: gonna get out of this. I'm gonna talk my way

490
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 4: out of this. Yeah, surely, I miss I'll sort this

491
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 4: all out.

492
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, No. Once she realized this that this is

493
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: actually about like the leakage of like the death Star

494
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 2: plans and not just as simple raid on a rebel

495
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 2: like weapons dealer. She realizes the kind of gravity of

496
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: her situation. She complains about how like she's been forced

497
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: like scavenge for information because there's not like an efficient,

498
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 2: efficient intel sharing operation across different imperial branches, and Credit

499
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: says to her, if you're not a rebel spy, you

500
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 2: missed your calling, which is the biggest insult you could

501
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 2: say to her.

502
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 3: My god, this destroys her.

503
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, like this is the this is the same mistake

504
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 2: that like Cirrial makes right. They're trying to like to

505
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: like do this like try hard stuff.

506
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 4: You think initiative is rewarded here exactly. Yeah, yeah, you know,

507
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 4: you follow orders. You do not take your own initiative.

508
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 4: You are not your own person. You follow what you're

509
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 4: told to do. You don't take things into your own hands.

510
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 4: This is how the whole system crumbles. Yeah, it's it's phenomenal.

511
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 2: How like she is so much like you know, like

512
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 2: it's especially in Cyril's eyes, right, she is like everything

513
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: that he wanted to be but like couldn't And yet

514
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: she has all the same flaws as him. They're both

515
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 2: children trying to like grab and seize their spot like

516
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: in the in the imperial world, and they can never

517
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: escape the logic of children. Yeah, it's phenomenal. So so yeah,

518
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 2: basically because because she was sent memos accidentally, she was

519
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 2: accidentally added to HOO THEPC small group. Uh, she had

520
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 2: she had information on the desk start that she shouldn't

521
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: have that she sorted that she stored on her computer

522
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 2: that then Lonnie was able to access with like a

523
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 2: stolen code cylinder, and this is why she's detained.

524
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 4: And I love too that Lannie makes a statement that

525
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 4: like he didn't tell Luthen he had this because he's like, well,

526
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 4: you would have made me use it.

527
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 2: And well, yeah, it's super cool.

528
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 4: And there's this yet like Lannie has gotten very good

529
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,479
Speaker 4: at this, Like he was right to not tell his boss.

530
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 2: Sometimes you share and sometimes you don't. And yeah, yeah, no,

531
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 2: like the idea of him holding onto this code cylinder

532
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,479
Speaker 2: this this whole year, knowing that you can only use

533
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: this once before you're kind of found out, and then

534
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 2: like waiting until he's heard chatter that like Luthen's gonna

535
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: get raided uses the cylinder. Then discovers all these other files.

536
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 2: It shows how important Luthen's operation is. I think this

537
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 2: is I think what these last two episodes are really

538
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: about is kind of like, yeah, the redemption of Luthan

539
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 2: in the eyes of the other rebel agents. So so yes,

540
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: Dedra is completely fucked and it's hilarious and Ben Mendel

541
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: is transing around the scene.

542
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: He's having such a good time.

543
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: It's so good. This is like it's like this and

544
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: the thing where he's going pwel Kite episode.

545
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's so good.

546
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: It's only his two best like, yeah, that's also just

547
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: really like Bob they didn't let him cook an and

548
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: or like oh it's him written like you know, oh yeah.

549
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: But it's like it's like like these it's like this

550
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: series is you've been getting to watch yeah sorry yah

551
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: in Rogue one. Yeah, it's like you've been getting to

552
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: watch these people who have just been playing like kind

553
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: of generic Star Wars characters and you get to watch

554
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: them cook and it is a thig of beauty.

555
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: It's a real freak gets to be let out because

556
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: you think they're all freaks.

557
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 4: There's that glorious moment when she realizes how fucked she

558
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 4: is when he puts his finger on.

559
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: Her head.

560
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 4: Like she's just an odd she's there for him to

561
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 4: act off. She's a button, right, She's a button.

562
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: We can push you when, we can push you when

563
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: we desire to, but you don't. You don't go off

564
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: by yourself. It's phenomena And he's turning her off.

565
00:29:59,480 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

566
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: He has this line where he's like, you think I

567
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: would come here for the death of an ISB clerk.

568
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 2: Say say the word phenomen Yes, say the word death star.

569
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, amazing, And then yeah, he turns her off and

570
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 4: is like, yeah, we'll get it.

571
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 3: We'll get by without you somehow.

572
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully, hopefully we'll be able to get by without you.

573
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

574
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 4: And it's so funny because like he is just he

575
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 4: is nuking her. There's nothing left after this, And also

576
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 4: they can't say actually actually, but he's dead in like

577
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 4: two days.

578
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 2: Targets obliterate his ass with.

579
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 4: The bargain's about to be sick of dust and everyone

580
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,959
Speaker 4: else Yes, everyone's a button.

581
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 2: And it's crazy how much of like the is B

582
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 2: gets totally wiped out like the week of the Death

583
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: Stars destruction. This shows like the real decline of the Empires.

584
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: It's like this like administrative bureaucratic state that's been running

585
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 2: the real day to day operations gets completely wiped out,

586
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: and now these two like scith lunatics have to personally

587
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 2: run everything themselves and they can't do it. They just can't.

588
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: They were they were relying on all of like the

589
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: republic holdovers that actually knew how to like run like

590
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: run a stage.

591
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

592
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 4: These guys like Laren and whatnot, who are like hard

593
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 4: seems like job yes yeah yeah, oh part of gas

594
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 4: and they they all get iced out.

595
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean, and this is this is a

596
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 1: dynamic that I think like because like everyone you were

597
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: trained from birth in the US to know the like

598
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: the revolution devours as.

599
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: Children thing and the Empire talks about this just like.

600
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: No, the liquida should rate for these people is astonishing.

601
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,239
Speaker 1: They also all like turn through these people and it's

602
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: like you can you can watch like Vader doing this

603
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: to people were like Vader, Like Vader just keeps fucking

604
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: killing his officers.

605
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: On his Superstar Destroyer all the time.

606
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 4: Well and what and what we what we see throughout

607
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 4: and or is rebels fuck up all the time.

608
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 3: They fail all the time.

609
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 4: We see moments of fail from Luthen, we see them

610
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 4: from cassi In, we see them from Draven and by

611
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 4: guys at Indoor, bail Mon Mathma. They all fuck up

612
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 4: and then they get the chance to learn from their

613
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 4: mistakes and get better, which is ultimately why they win.

614
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: And that privilege is never extended no to the Empire.

615
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 4: Even if you're really good, you're going to make some

616
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 4: mistakes and the first time you do, Darth Vader chokes

617
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 4: you to death, and so the Empire never gets better.

618
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: It's just because this was a point in the Old

619
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: Canyon where like one of the arguments of like why

620
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: the rebels won the war was like X wings have shields, yeah,

621
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: and tie fighters don't. Yeah, and you could, so you

622
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: can make a mistake in an X wing, but if

623
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: it makes say a tie fighter, you're done.

624
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

625
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: So the rebel pilots end up being better than the

626
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,719
Speaker 1: imperial ones because they survive. And there's this other like

627
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,959
Speaker 1: there are lots of these interesting parallels too, where like

628
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: the death of the Administrative State was also sort of

629
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: an old cannon thing, where it's like, so the why

630
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: it plays out in the old Cannon is like at

631
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: Endoor and this is the thing that you canon too,

632
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: I guess, but like all of the best officers are

633
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: trying to get moded up the ladder and so they're

634
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: all on the Emperor the Emperor Superstar Destroyer. Yeah, and

635
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: when that thing goes down, it's like yeah, it like

636
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: and this is partially just a thing that also about

637
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: like how imperial administration works is how centralized it is.

638
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: Is that they have single points of failure. And this

639
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: is for example, Hoberodijia fell. It's like, yeah, they put

640
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: it's like we don't have a state anymore because everything's

641
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: so centralized and it being so centralized and everyone being

642
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: so essential, and also you killing all these people because

643
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: your organization doesn't tolerate failure. It just it creates these

644
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: discuss scating failure points where you knock out a couple

645
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: of people on it and suddenly it's like everything's destroyed.

646
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: I do want to return to the point of kind

647
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: of of how fastiss in like eth the zone at

648
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: the end, because Tony has some quotes on that, and

649
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: I'm just going to speed run through these next few

650
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 2: kind of points here. The ic B tracks clay As

651
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: movements via hospital security cameras. Even though she tries to

652
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: avoid an evade detection, she is basically stuck on Chorussan

653
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: and starts hiding out in the old safe house, broadcasting

654
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 2: an emergency pulse code to her on Yavin. Meanwhile, a

655
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 2: divorced Cassian and Melchie get drunk and start bullying their

656
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: autistic robot friend while playing poker. So good, it's so

657
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 2: funny cases Hey, I know, oh, I know, I'm well aware.

658
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: I am the sober autistic girl in every one of

659
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: these things.

660
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 4: Well, and they understand the most important thing about television

661
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 4: sci fi, which is a robot awkwardly playing poker with

662
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 4: a human freak.

663
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: I know the grace.

664
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 2: Data K TWOSO holding hands meme and I.

665
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 4: Love the K two s O is also constantly being like,

666
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:38,919
Speaker 4: you guys are drinking a lot, Like.

667
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that.

668
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 4: When they're about to go on this last mission, Cassian

669
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 4: is canically drunk driving. Yeah, he is one and a

670
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,439
Speaker 4: half shot away from blacking out his time to pilot.

671
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 5: A spacecraft most realistic in searches, No one will be

672
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 5: this drug again until like no, like many many years

673
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 5: later in this galaxy, until like there's until like civil

674
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 5: war generals.

675
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, are finding each other's next tip, and we'll be

676
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: this drunk.

677
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

678
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 4: Ulyssie Simpson Grant is the last person to be as

679
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 4: drunk as Cassian and or was in this scene.

680
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 2: Willman's old like Luthen radio goes off with an as

681
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 2: West message. She takes it to Cassian, who then yeah,

682
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 2: drunk drives there you way off yeaven.

683
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 4: And let's let's have a shout out to our man

684
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 4: Draven here.

685
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 3: Who is he?

686
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 4: He's kind of he's kind of he's kind of based.

687
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 4: I loved I love that they managed to both make

688
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 4: him be. He has to be the foil to Cassian

689
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 4: because Cassian does not want this chain of command bullshit.

690
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 4: He's so sympathetic, but he's not wrong, and he's not

691
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 4: a dick. He's like, look, man, I've got like four

692
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 4: hundred other freighters. I'm worried about right now, those shipments

693
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 4: of rifles that I that I have to keep. I

694
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 4: have to keep all of this in my head. I

695
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 4: can't write any of it down. I haven't slept in days.

696
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 4: I dums like. I can't even drink hot coffee because

697
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 4: otherwise my fucking ulcers light on fire. I don't even

698
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 4: remember when I hate solid food. My ibs has ibs.

699
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 4: Can you please stop taking off in the middle.

700
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: Of the night.

701
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 2: It's so funny that the thing that Cassian does at

702
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: the end of Rogue one, it's just like a regular

703
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 2: currents on the face. He's doing this, but no, like

704
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 2: like consistently Draven, even even if he gets pissed off,

705
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,919
Speaker 2: a Cassian consistently has his backstill, which is I think,

706
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 2: really really sweet. Yes, yeah, Krenick realizes how fucked they

707
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 2: are and and tries to get tries to get the

708
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 2: entire Icept immobilized to locate Claya as she is probably

709
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 2: in possession of the death Star intel quote. There will

710
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 2: be no horizon to the scope of your inquiry. And

711
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 2: this is where we have some of the most interesting

712
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: stuff from Partigas and how he viewsed like rebellions and

713
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 2: revolutions as a disease yea. And this relates to some

714
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: of his lines from season one where he describes the

715
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: ISP as quote unquote healthcare providers. We treat sickness, We

716
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: identify symptoms. We locate germs, whether they arise from within

717
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 2: or have come from the outside. The longer we wait

718
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 2: to identify a disorder, the harder it is to treat

719
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: the disease unquote. Yeah, and then when the ICP decides

720
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 2: on what grounds they are looking to apprehend, Clia Partograz

721
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 2: proclaims that quote she's diseased. She escaped the hospital with

722
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 2: infectious condition that threatens everyone with whom she may come

723
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 2: into contact unquote.

724
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: I'm so glad they did this because this is such

725
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: a core part of the ideology of fascism, right of

726
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: seeing that the body is a nation and there being

727
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: these sort of like parasitic infections that are inside the

728
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: nation that are like undermining it. That's that's like just

729
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: the core of fascism. And you're just getting You're just

730
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: getting to watch like the people in the middle of

731
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: the empire just literally trying to do the thing in

732
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: the most literal way possible, right, Like they're just they're

733
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: just coming out and saying what the ideology is and

734
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: how it works. And I it may it may still

735
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: be a level of metaphor that is slightly too high

736
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: for the average Star Wars viewer, but they are just

737
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 1: telling you the politics. Yeah, and I really appreciate that.

738
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

739
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 2: Now, while stuck in an ic BE holding cell with

740
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 2: with with an unbuttoned collar. Detra is crashing out and

741
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 2: you can tell because the caller is unbuttoned, but somehow

742
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 2: she is still able to give the ISB a lead

743
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 2: to track Claya through her use of obscure radio signals.

744
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 2: One of the cool parts here is an Imperial radio

745
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 2: technician is impressed at Lusen's radio setup and can and

746
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 2: can't help but be excited when like learning how it works.

747
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: But they say that Luthan targeted the storage files and

748
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 2: the radio signal library when he burned the console, but

749
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 2: still they were able to track Claya's pulsecode to a

750
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 2: nearby apartment on Coruscant, and in preparation for the raid

751
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 2: on the safe house, the ice peaed jam calms around

752
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,959
Speaker 2: the area right as Cassian, Melchi and K two arrive

753
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: to extract Claya. As Cassian gets into the apartment and

754
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 2: finds not Luthen but Claia and then tries to plead

755
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 2: with her to come to Yavin. He also like kind

756
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 2: of lambass Luthen for not coming to Yavin sooner because

757
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 2: he couldn't swallow his pride, and Claia says, quote, thank

758
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 2: the Galaxy, he didn't he stayed for this that people

759
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 2: in Yavin have to know what they're up against, thank

760
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 2: the Galaxy, and he did it.

761
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so good.

762
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 2: All right, let's go on break and then we'll return

763
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 2: to discuss the final episode. Okay, we are back. Episode twelve,

764
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 2: Jetta kiber Urso. So Cass is trying to convince Clia

765
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 2: to leave, like right now, write this very second, please

766
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 2: dear God, come with me, and Claya's still like kind

767
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 2: of pissed him with the whole situation, like Gavin after

768
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 2: all these years, what a bitter ending. Cass tries to

769
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: argue that if she comes, she's helping to keep Luthan alive,

770
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 2: which she calls big words the Imperial Swat Team importantly

771
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 2: not stormtroopers. Instead, these goofy s swat guys surround the

772
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 2: apartment trying to locate Claya. As the ISB locates casts

773
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: Claya and Melchi, they throw a stun grenade, which, this

774
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: is very interesting to me, does not really affect Cass

775
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 2: and Melchie as much. Like like, Claya gets knocked out,

776
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 2: but the Narkina five prison shocks conditioned Melchi and Cass

777
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: against the stun grenade, which is again phlometal it's so good,

778
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 2: and I think just generally like Claya has again, Luthen.

779
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 4: Has protected her from a lot of like the direct

780
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 4: she doesn't have CTE. Right, if Cassie and had lived

781
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 4: another thirty years, like his fucking brain would have been

782
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 4: melting because he's been around many goddamn explosions and he's

783
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 4: been electrocute And the same thing's to a melchie, right,

784
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 4: they just barely feel.

785
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: It, to be fair, It's not like she hasn't blown

786
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: up a bunch of things, like she's a distance from

787
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: a distance, we just watch her liquidate an entire Imperial

788
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: security compliment to go kill Luthen. Like it's not like

789
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: she hasn't done this.

790
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 4: No no, no, But she's raised by an old soldier who

791
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 4: does the responsible thing that you do if you have

792
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,720
Speaker 4: the experience, which is you tell the younger people no.

793
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 3: No, no, use your ear pro no, get further back.

794
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 4: I know you don't think you need to be, but

795
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 4: get further back, like my ears ring all the time.

796
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 4: Don't fucking take risks. I also kind of what I

797
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 4: wonder if maybe there's a level of protection from the

798
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 4: stand green age you get again when you are still

799
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 4: right on the edge of a blackout.

800
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's compelling. So as K two just completely demolishes.

801
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 2: So Imperial Team, uh, the the i SB calls for backup,

802
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 2: but everyone is spread too thin because they're out searching

803
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: for the emergency Disease warrant from partagraphs.

804
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so good.

805
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, Claya does get to Yavin, and here we see

806
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 2: a lot more of like the tricky aspects of Yavin politics.

807
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 2: Saw is kind of getting impossible to deal with. He

808
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 2: is haffing way too much fuel.

809
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 4: He's huffing an amount of fuel. I don't know how

810
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 4: I'm gonna say it's too much. But his insistence where

811
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,959
Speaker 4: they're like, dude, we know you're we know you're on Jetta.

812
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 2: We know idea, you don't know where I am? You know, Yeah,

813
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,879
Speaker 2: trying to argue with him about about how they're trying

814
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 2: to get to the bottom of like the Imperial kiper

815
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: mining on Jetta and they're like, we know you're on

816
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 2: Jetta and he tries to deny it. You don't know

817
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 2: where I am? Yes, we do.

818
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 1: There's also this great thing at the end of that

819
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: where Moth was like, we're just trying to help you.

820
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: And then and Saw just cuss the line, and I

821
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: think it's draved.

822
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 2: Whatever.

823
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: The the rebel intelligence ghoul in the room cuts the

824
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: line and Moss was kind of just going like uh,

825
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: and he goes, oh, no, we've absolutely been sending spies

826
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: into his group and she's been.

827
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 4: So we've been bugging him. He's he's absolutely right.

828
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: And it's something I think it's interesting about because, like

829
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 1: it in Rogue one Saw is like seems like such

830
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 1: an unbelievably paranoid asshole. It's like, no, like the rebels

831
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: really have been like trying to the rebels and the

832
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: Empire really have been trying to infiltrate his group for

833
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: like so fucking long that he's completely lost his mind

834
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: from just like the paranoia.

835
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 4: Also, he is canonically again a forty six.

836
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 2: Puffing all that fuel really does rapid age you.

837
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's not great for you.

838
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: So then we have I guess the most frustrating part

839
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 2: of the episode, Like good but frustrating to watch with

840
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: this this this Rebel spokes council meeting about Luthen and

841
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 2: the Death Star in tell, oh my god, are these

842
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 2: people annoying? Uh? Yeah, what pieces of ship? These people,

843
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 2: These people who have like done basically nothing. Yeah, there

844
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 2: are senators who's like who's who have who have defected

845
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 2: to Yavin and they don't know the cost of things

846
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 2: that that they're actually dealing in. Bail says that that

847
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: Luthen stayed on Corussants too long and and again no,

848
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 2: no Luthen state for this piece of information.

849
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

850
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 2: And and Mon's getting kind of increasingly frustrated as everyone's

851
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,439
Speaker 2: kind of like bad talking Luthen. Again, we've we've we've

852
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 2: been very clear on the show about how Lusen as

853
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 2: a complicated character with some people more pro Luthen than others.

854
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 2: But and and a Mon like Mon herself has a

855
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: lot of reservations about Luthen, but yeah, she also knows

856
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 2: is like her directly and everyone else are only here

857
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 2: in part because of what he's done. That's not saying

858
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 2: he was right about every single thing, but he he

859
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 2: but that still is true, right like he this is

860
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: He's still very important to this. And everyone's being quite

861
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: dismissive of of Cassiean and and and the intel from

862
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 2: Lutheran and Cassian kind of gets you know, put into

863
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: put into confinement and it gets dismissed and requests to

864
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 2: visit Claia in the hospital, and this is where Mon

865
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 2: finally speaks up and immediately grants him permission because like

866
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 2: she's she she knows all these people like like these

867
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 2: she's and she's the only one on this little council

868
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 2: that like knows all of these people and knows like

869
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 2: how much they have sacrificed. Yeah, but still like mon

870
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 2: Mon is still like a good operator here, and she

871
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,919
Speaker 2: asks her cousin Vell to like talk with Cassie and

872
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 2: and like suss out how real this death Star intel is.

873
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: When Vell does this, she doesn't try to do it

874
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 2: like covertly. She like talks talks to Cassie and very

875
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 2: like flatly being like, hey, like Mon sent me here

876
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 2: to try to figure out if if this is legit

877
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 2: is is this legit? And they discussed the intel. Meanwhile,

878
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 2: Claia gets up from like her like medical medical bay

879
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 2: and starts walking around Yavin in the rain and like,

880
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 2: oh my god, somebody please hug her, like someone like

881
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 2: do something like she should not be left alone, like

882
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 2: she's had one of the one of the most traumatic

883
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: days of her life. Someone like take care of her.

884
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 2: And Bell runs into Claiya and like Vell and Clay

885
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 2: have had like kind of a kind of like a

886
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 2: dicey relationship, but like in this moment, we see like

887
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: just the importance of like sheer solidarity and Bell like

888
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 2: cares for her, gets her to like cover, gives her

889
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 2: like a place to sleep. And it's a really touching scene.

890
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: And I want to talk about this moment a little

891
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: bit because I think it's an interesting character thing with

892
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 1: Claia here where Claya, throughout this entire show is the

893
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: only character who has been put together the entire time. Yeah,

894
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,240
Speaker 1: Like even part agast At like the very end starts

895
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: to sort of crack, right, Claia is the one character who,

896
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: like when everyone is falling apart around her, when Andre's

897
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 1: falling apart, when when like even when Luthern is falling apart, Clay,

898
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 1: Clay is always on it. Fuck you pull yourself together.

899
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: You have to hold this together. Yeah, And it's like

900
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: her and you get this moment, like her task, this is.

901
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 2: When she's finally is able to break. Yeah, she's been

902
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 2: holding in so much.

903
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, Like one her task is finally over

904
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: and so she can like let herself fall apart. And

905
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: two it's like a thing that could finally actually drive

906
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: her to fall apart is the fact that she just

907
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: had to fucking kill lu kill the person who raised her. Ye, yeah,

908
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: she had to fucking kill Luthan and then get out.

909
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 1: And you can see this thing where that I think

910
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: is like very familiar to a lot of people were

911
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: like she's been. And she also has to hold all

912
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: this information in her head because if she forgets any

913
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: of the information that she's been told by Lutheran, the

914
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: rebellion is doomed. And and and when Ander like first

915
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: meets her on Corrussants, she's just like is spilling it out,

916
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: springing it out, She's out just jumble of words. Yeah,

917
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: and it's like and it's and it's a thing where

918
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 1: like she's she's finally reached the point where it's like

919
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: she has one last thing to do and she can

920
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: fall apart, and then she can finally instead of having

921
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: to be the one who's caring for literally everyone and

922
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: holding literally everyone else together, she can finally like rest.

923
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: And she doesn't know how to do that because she's

924
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: always had to be the one who's holding everything together

925
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: this entire time.

926
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 2: I do love the moment when Lutherin first gives her

927
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 2: the information and he like forces her to like repeat

928
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 2: it back to him, like make make sure you can

929
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 2: you can express it to me. And then she does

930
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 2: the same thing to Cassian, and Cassian like doesn't like

931
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: Cassian doesn't repeat it back to her. And but yeah,

932
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: like like that small like you know, like like you

933
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 2: have to have like a ritual, you have to have,

934
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: like you have you have like a protocol to make

935
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 2: sure you actually like to make sure that I know

936
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: you actually have this information, you need to like express

937
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 2: it back to me. Yeah, it's it's just a nice

938
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 2: little short moment. In the next morning, we see Cassian

939
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 2: taking care of Bix's plants. Good for him. Yeah, And

940
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 2: then this is when casson Vell talk and they say

941
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 2: that they're gonna drink to Luthen Justice once, which again

942
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 2: Cassian's drinking right in the morning, good.

943
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 3: Time, as like he does every day.

944
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 2: Yes, but but they say, you, like we can't toast

945
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 2: them all like Lieutenant Gornnamic, Santa Feryx, Marva Gorman, the

946
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 2: l Donny's and one one short little tidbit here Vell

947
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 2: talks about how there's people falsely claiming that they were

948
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 2: part of the Aldawnie Crew, which is the most accurate

949
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 2: thing I have ever seen.

950
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 4: Where they're like everybody keeps taking credit for this, and

951
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 4: she's like, man, if someone did that in front of me,

952
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 4: I just there.

953
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: And killed him.

954
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're the only two people from the old Donnie

955
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 2: Raids still still alive, and like, yeah, like the idea

956
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 2: that we're getting like rebel stolen valors, but very realistic,

957
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 2: you know. I actually I actually punched Richard Spencer as

958
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 2: like as like a fourteen year old. Yeah, it's very

959
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:33,439
Speaker 2: well cool.

960
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

961
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 2: We then start hearing Nemeck's Manifesto playing, and it's unclear

962
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 2: that if there's playing it like for the show. But

963
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 2: then yeah, but then we realized that it's part of

964
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 2: Grays listening in the Imperial Security Burroughs briefing room, and

965
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: it's it's a really wonderful thing to return to. Yeah,

966
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 2: and one of Partagras is like you know, Underlings walks

967
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 2: up to him and says like it just keeps spreading,

968
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 2: doesn't it, And he says it's been hard to contain again,

969
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 2: using this like a disease like rhetoric. He then asks

970
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 2: for a moment to collect himself and then shoots himself

971
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: in the head. This is one of the most fascinating

972
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 2: parts of the show, like like knowing like the kind

973
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 2: of the tear that he's going to face for like

974
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 2: for failing, while also being confronted with like how much

975
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 2: of his work for the Empire has been worth it?

976
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 2: Like it's not. His emotions here are not clearly laid

977
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 2: out to you, because it's more interesting for you to

978
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 2: think about them yourself.

979
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I've seen everything from like, oh, he realizes

980
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 4: he was wrong to he realizes like the Empire is

981
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 4: the disease or just he realizes the disease got out

982
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 4: of control, like more than they had realized.

983
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 2: But the punishment he could be facing from the Empires

984
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 2: not worth it, like he is he is he's a

985
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: career man, And why would he be sent to Narkina five?

986
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 2: Like he is not going to El Salvador. Finally, Cassian

987
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,919
Speaker 2: is sent to meet a source on Kafring. That's that's

988
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 2: one of the guys infiltrating saws operation to learn the

989
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,439
Speaker 2: location of Galen Urso, the designer at the Death Star.

990
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 2: And then we have this final montage across all of

991
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 2: our characters. We have mon and Vell having breakfast with

992
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 2: the grunts. You have divorced paren flying flying around on Coruscant.

993
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:29,879
Speaker 2: You have Dedra in a Narkeina prison, and Claya gets

994
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: to see the life of the rebellion, Saws at Jetta,

995
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 2: Kronik is at the Death Star be too, Emo has

996
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 2: a new friend, and Bix is holding a baby watching

997
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 2: the sunrise.

998
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 3: Uh huh.

999
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 2: So I want to talk mostly about Bis here, but

1000
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 2: first I think of mon eating with the rebel troops.

1001
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 2: Is like very cool to have her just like with

1002
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 2: the regular people. She's not like with like bail and

1003
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 2: like not like not like often like a special like

1004
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 2: counselor's room. She's like like just with everyone. We'll also

1005
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about Clay here as well, But

1006
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 2: I think I think I want to just do Bix

1007
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 2: to start, if that's okay, sure, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1008
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 2: So Tony has talked a lot about this ending scene

1009
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 2: and about how he wanted to end with a sense

1010
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 2: of hope and like the hope for like life beyond

1011
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 2: you know, the empire, like like life beyond imperial oppression,

1012
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 2: and and Bix with the babies was to like symbolize this,

1013
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 2: and Bix is literally like looking at the sunrise, right, like,

1014
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 2: and this this metaphor of the sunrise has been something

1015
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 2: for Luthin, how he's never gonna actually get to see

1016
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 2: like life beyond the empire, and he knows that he

1017
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 2: sacrificed that. It also calls into calls into view a

1018
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 2: Cassian dying at like the false sunrise of the dusth Star.

1019
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 2: And I've seen I guess some people upset about Bix

1020
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 2: just you know, being like off planet with a baby

1021
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,280
Speaker 2: and feeling this is a kind of like relegating her character.

1022
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 2: And I think that there's a lot of things going

1023
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:58,399
Speaker 2: on here. This show goes so so like way way

1024
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 2: beyond like simple politics of like representation and like vocasting right,

1025
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 2: which can often end up feeling like shallow boxes to check,

1026
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 2: because this show actually like depicts things like carceral injustice,

1027
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 2: manufactured consent for genocide, how structural patriarchy drives imperial oppression,

1028
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 2: Like the depth of the political mechanisms the show is tackling,

1029
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 2: I think is so much more worthwhile, and it's it's

1030
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 2: not immune to criticism for those reasons. But I think

1031
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 2: that aspect can be overlooked.

1032
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: Oddly.

1033
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 2: I think we kind of like take for granted, like

1034
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 2: how good the show is at so many aspects, so

1035
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 2: many aspects of politics, and like this show specifically has

1036
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 2: women in so many different roles beyond like the you

1037
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 2: know pop feminist girl boss Badass, which has been linked

1038
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 2: to Star Wars through Lea Ahsoka and to a lesser

1039
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 2: extent like Ray and Jim, and this tribe is itself

1040
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 2: kind of low key misogynistic. But in and Or, we

1041
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 2: have man Mathma, we have Vel, we have Sinto, we

1042
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 2: have Cla, we have Dedra, we have Marvel, we have

1043
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 2: Bis And I think motherhood is something that characters should

1044
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 2: be allowed to embrace. And like motherhood's always had a

1045
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,360
Speaker 2: very tricky relationship up with Star Wars because of Padme,

1046
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 2: But like, being being a mom is not the issue

1047
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 2: with Bix's character. You can still critique how she was

1048
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 2: relegated to becoming like the punching bag for the show,

1049
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 2: but being a mother is like not bad. There is

1050
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 2: there's a quote from the Palestinian militant Leila Khalid like

1051
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 2: revolution must mean life, also every aspect of life, and

1052
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,800
Speaker 2: she specifically referenced motherhood. And like Bix is a fighter,

1053
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 2: she is a survivor. She she fights her way out

1054
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 2: of depression and PTSD, and she does spend years engaged

1055
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 2: in revolutionary action. And yes, it may it may have

1056
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 2: been nice to see more of that revolutionary action on screen.

1057
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 2: We do see some it might have been nice, But

1058
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,359
Speaker 2: this is also write a limited series show with a

1059
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 2: ton of characters, like four hundred speaking roles, and that

1060
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 2: is not been afforded to everybody, and that can be unfortunate.

1061
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 2: But I think I understand what's going on with this character,

1062
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 2: and I do not. I do not think the problem

1063
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 2: is the baby itself. I think that's actually fine, and

1064
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 2: her deciding after years of fighting to take like a

1065
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 2: few years off to have a baby should be viewed

1066
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 2: as a choice that like she's like allowed to make.

1067
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 2: I guess.

1068
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 4: I also think there's there's something like there's a lot

1069
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 4: of agency in the choice to like I'm done, but

1070
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna make that decision for this other person,

1071
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 4: for Cassian. Yeah yeah, but I don't know, like it

1072
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 4: scanned to me. I do like thinking that in this

1073
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 4: last scene is where like watching these last bits of

1074
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 4: all our characters, you know, not only as people have

1075
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 4: pointed out, is Cassian gonna be dead in like two days,

1076
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 4: along with Ben Mendelssohn and shortly thereafter grenmav Tarkin. But

1077
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 4: like all the other stuff that's canonically going down, like

1078
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 4: right right as fucking Claya sees that first sunrise, Like

1079
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 4: you have to imagine Han Solo somewhere is doing a

1080
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 4: line off of like a space prostitute in some sleazy bar.

1081
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 4: It's like four am in the morning where he is.

1082
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 4: He hasn't slept in days. You know, Luke Skywalker is

1083
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 4: looking at his on uncle being like, well, they're never

1084
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 4: going to be lit on fire, obviously.

1085
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 2: Just beautiful To kind of reiterate on the point about

1086
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 2: how like fascism that also eats its own is something

1087
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 2: that Tony has discussed before, specifically in relation to like

1088
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,800
Speaker 2: Cyril and Dedra and partographs right. Tony says, like quote,

1089
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 2: fascism doesn't just take down the oppressed, It doesn't just

1090
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 2: come for the people trying to control. It inevitably destroys

1091
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 2: the people who have worked the hardest to build it.

1092
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 2: And that's been true all through history as well. In

1093
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: a different interview, he says, the empire is just shattering, fragmenting, grabbing,

1094
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,439
Speaker 2: destroying and taking, and then the people that are doing

1095
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 2: it on the imperial side are all isolated. They think

1096
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 2: they're part of something, but really they're not. Look at

1097
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 2: what happens to Dedra, Look at what happens to Partographs.

1098
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 2: Look what happens to Cyril carn He tries to believe

1099
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 2: in the dream. It's the carelessness and the cruelty and

1100
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 2: the lack of empathy. That's what I'm pitching. Even in

1101
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 2: this little final montage, we have this brief shot of Parin,

1102
00:56:55,800 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 2: which is interesting. That's man Mathma's a strange husband, I guess, uh.

1103
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 2: And Tony has discussed parent as well, and during like

1104
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 2: the wedding scene, we learned that that as a kid,

1105
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 2: like while he was in school, he was kind of

1106
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 2: a a quote unquote political fire brand. Yeah, and he

1107
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 2: has sacrificed that a little bit. Tony says, quote, there

1108
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 2: are a lot of sacrifices in this show, all variety

1109
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 2: of sacrifices. He's made his sacrifice for hedonism. He doesn't

1110
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 2: look happy in that car unquote.

1111
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 3: No.

1112
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 2: I do like the little wrap up we have we

1113
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 2: have on parents character there.

1114
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 4: Although I also love if you'll notice he's with the

1115
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 4: wife of the Golden their daughter off too it's that

1116
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 4: you have to assume has gotten purged at this point

1117
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 4: because they realized that he had been funneling funds to

1118
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 4: the rebellion. But I I do like we even get

1119
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 4: that this is this is the only little private rebellion

1120
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 4: that he can manage right now as he's he's fucking

1121
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 4: this guy's wife.

1122
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 2: Everyone has their everyone has their own rebellion.

1123
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1124
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 2: Oh man, I guess I finally, I at least for me,

1125
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,479
Speaker 2: I guess part of me wanted to see you more

1126
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 2: of like the development of Yavin as like how like

1127
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 2: revolutionary cells come together. And Tony has addressed this as well,

1128
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 2: quote Yavin makes me nervous if you want to know

1129
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 2: the truth, there's things about Yeavin that make me nervous,

1130
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 2: and the logic about Yavin that makes me nervous. Even

1131
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 2: within the Star Wars canon, the security there and how

1132
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 2: some people know about it but the ice beed doesn't

1133
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 2: know about it. And there's some places where you don't

1134
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 2: want to poke to aggressively because you don't really want

1135
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:26,439
Speaker 2: to get into the undercarriage. That was a place where

1136
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 2: I didn't really want to get into the undercarriage very much.

1137
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 2: That is that is understandable, and then finally on Claya

1138
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 2: and Luthen, and specifically like Claia's last look there, like

1139
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 2: in the morning after her walk in the rain, after

1140
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 2: all of this, you know, frustration between like Luthen and Yavin.

1141
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 2: Tony says, quote Cleia and Luthen are over amplifying the

1142
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 2: distrust and hate in the same way that some of

1143
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 2: the people on the Alliance are over ramping the disagreement.

1144
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 2: I think one of my favorite moments in that montage

1145
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 2: at the end is when Leo wakes up the next

1146
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 2: morning after her night in the rain, and she looks

1147
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 2: out and sees that there's people running and people caring supplies,

1148
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 2: and she's seen how big Yavin is, and there's this

1149
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 2: mona Lisa's smile that she has that's almost beginning to

1150
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 2: take pleasure in some sense of ownership of what she's

1151
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 2: helped create. She realizes how much of a contributor, how

1152
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 2: much of an investor, she and Luthen are in y Avion.

1153
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 2: She's watching the people there, and just a little moment

1154
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 2: of pride comes on her face that she warms up

1155
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 2: just a little bit and begins to take ownership of

1156
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 2: the rebellion. That's everything to me unquote.

1157
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: There's something I love about Yavn. Well, you get to

1158
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: see sort of the beauty of it and the beauty

1159
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 1: of what's going to destroy the empire, where it's like

1160
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: you keep just seeing like people who survived all of

1161
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 1: this shit and make it to Yavn. Like Meshi is

1162
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: like the other survivor of the Narkina five like prison break, right,

1163
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 1: and he's like one of the people going on with

1164
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: the indoor the what's the what's the what's the other

1165
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 1: rebellion twinks name the Kidy through the brain? Yeah, yeah,

1166
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: Willman's French resistance girlfriend makes it there, and like all

1167
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 1: of these and you get this this little microcosms, like

1168
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 1: all of these people who are like the survivors of

1169
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: all of these imperial sort of like horrors like have

1170
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: gathered in this place and it's like these are the

1171
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 1: people who are going to destroy the empire. And I

1172
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: think something really beautiful about that. And then I also

1173
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 1: think there's a really interesting thing in the Yavun politics

1174
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 1: we do see, which is that like you know, so

1175
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: like I get I am notoriously the show is like

1176
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: luth and hater. I'm not really a hater of Luthen.

1177
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 1: I just don't want the most annoying people in the

1178
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: world to try to replicate him in real life. But also,

1179
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 1: like the central rebel command is a shit show. It's

1180
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: completely exasterly. They're like top down hierarchical command from that council.

1181
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: Those people at every every single instance of this attempt

1182
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 1: to lose the boar, Right, they're too pissed off at

1183
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 1: Luthen to like listen to the information that he literally

1184
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: fucking died to give them, right, Like this entire operation

1185
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: a bit about giving them the information to destroy the

1186
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 1: super weapon that will destroy the empire, and they don't

1187
01:00:57,720 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: want to listen to it. And like in rogue, like

1188
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: that counts tries to surrender, like they literally vote to

1189
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: be like yeah, sorry, we can't fight the Empire. They're

1190
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: too strong. And then like the rebel military defects and

1191
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 1: this is not the fact, like they say disrection, they

1192
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 1: go right, they rebel, Yeah, they go rogue and they

1193
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 1: and they're the ones who do this. And I think

1194
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: there's this interesting thing here. As much as Gilbert doesn't

1195
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 1: want to like touch Yavin that much, there's this there's

1196
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 1: an interesting political dynamic of like yeah, okay, so like

1197
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 1: we finally developed this sort of like centralized political force

1198
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 1: capable to bring all these things together, and they're useless.

1199
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 1: They are worse than useless. They they they nearly destroy

1200
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: the rebellion that they had been sort of like trying

1201
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 1: to bring together on multiple occasions, and they're only stopped

1202
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: by doing that by these sort of like unhinged gorilla

1203
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 1: like people who are completely out of control and like

1204
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 1: these like rogue operator people who.

1205
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 4: Are fundamentally like the the inheritors to Luthan's legacy, right

1206
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 4: like which is cassian.

1207
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 1: By the actual rebels, not the fucking senators. And I

1208
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: think that's like a because I've been I've been seeing

1209
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 1: there's been I've been seeing some small attempts to like

1210
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: recuperate mon Moth. But from this, it's like, no, Mafa's

1211
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 1: the only senator who backs the like go for it,

1212
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 1: like we're we're carrying out this ray to see the

1213
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 1: desk star plants, like she's the only one, right, And

1214
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: I think there's this is this is like the fund

1215
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: the actual fundamental break here is between these people. Is

1216
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: it's like when when when the chips are down, are

1217
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: you willing to fight and most of the sort of

1218
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 1: like like liberal sort of like defecting noble leadership isn't

1219
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 1: except for Mathma, and she's just so is like I

1220
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: want to go down fighting, and.

1221
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 3: I'm going to go down swinging. Yeah.

1222
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1223
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: And that's the fundamental difference between like someone who politically

1224
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: I don't like, like the Marquis Lafayet, like that motherfucker

1225
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 1: went down swinging like he That man, at every single

1226
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 1: point of his life was always funding an insurrection, was

1227
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: always like I will take.

1228
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 3: Let's they're a punch. Let's they're a punch. Yeah.

1229
01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 1: And then and it's like you can compare that to

1230
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 1: like the German liber roles or like like the liberals

1231
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 1: who when Pinochet like takes power, were like, yeah, when

1232
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: Pinochet called them all to like report to like have

1233
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: meetings with the government, they all went, yeah, we're gonna

1234
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 1: go report to like talk to the secret police. And

1235
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 1: they all got like killed, right, And that's different between

1236
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 1: those two things, And that I think is a really

1237
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: really is a crucial political distinction to draw out is

1238
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: like it's not even necessarily like your class background, it's

1239
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: not even necessarily like what your politics are because a

1240
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: lot of these people believe the same things. It's like

1241
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 1: when the chips come down, will you fight or will

1242
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 1: you try to surrender?

1243
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1244
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:32,919
Speaker 1: And that's the only thing that I think I don't

1245
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: know like that. That's to me, the best part of

1246
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: and Or is like that. And I think that's the

1247
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 1: part of it that's like being set up in this

1248
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:39,919
Speaker 1: episode that I love.

1249
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 2: The very last thing I'll say, because this has gone

1250
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 2: on wait for quite a while, I'm sorry, is it

1251
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 2: is like I was talking with a friend after we

1252
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 2: watch these episodes, and we were talking about how this

1253
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 2: show really, in the end is a call for internationalism.

1254
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 2: Planets are stand ins for different countries and different cities, right,

1255
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 2: and like they we aren't doing the full revolution on Corescant,

1256
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 2: like the Center for Imperial Power, right, the Imperial Core.

1257
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 2: There is some organization happening there, right, Like there is

1258
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 2: people based out of there. There's networking, right, like Luten's

1259
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 2: intel shop is there. But most of like the physical

1260
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 2: arm struggle is on other planets. The first base for

1261
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 2: the Alliance is built on yaff and four, but the

1262
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 2: rebellion isn't initially like overthrowing the empire on Correscant though

1263
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 2: through their interplanetary efforts, the whole galaxy gets liberated and

1264
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 2: the seat of power can be seized, and that sort

1265
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 2: of like galaxy wide cooperation mirroring like a worldwide cooperation

1266
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 2: that we have like really like lost in the past

1267
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:41,040
Speaker 2: past few decades. Yeah, I think is one of I

1268
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 2: think one of the points that that should be taken

1269
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 2: away from from and or here.

1270
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:49,919
Speaker 3: Yep, all right, well I think that's our episode. Yep,

1271
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 3: bye everybody.

1272
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 2: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

1273
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1274
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,919
Speaker 3: Polsonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1275
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

1276
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 2: You can now find sources for it Could Happen here

1277
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 2: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.