1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. We have just gotten through the winter solstice 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: here in the Northern Hemisphere, so this Saturday's Classic is 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: meant to bring a little light and springtime into everyone's 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: feeds during these darkest days of the year. It's a 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: look at the history of roses. This episode originally came 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: out on June Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to 8 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Holly Frying and I'm Tracy B. Wilson. 9 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: We're doing an episode that is, uh, you know, selfish 10 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: because something I wanted to talk about for a long time, 11 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: which is roses. Uh, because I love roses, but I 12 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: am admittedly a total amateur in the garden. Our house 13 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: when we bought it, came with a lot of roses, 14 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: some of which are entertainingly. They have revealed themselves to 15 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: me to be poorly chosen for the spots there is whoops, 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: but like they're lovely. We have the most beautiful red 17 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: roses that bloom like crazy every spring and summer and 18 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: right into fall, that are right next to the steps 19 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: on either side of the railings. But they're climbing roses, 20 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: and so in the summer. We literally have to cut 21 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: them back almost every day because they just keep coming 22 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: into the walkway. And it's like, these are so beautiful 23 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: and they're so hearty and healthy, and I really love them, 24 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: but whoever picked them maybe didn't realize what kind they were. Um, 25 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: and then I add to our little collection periodically. I'm 26 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: I'm a lady who does not know that much about 27 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: my roses, but I love them dearly. I've bought a 28 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: few of the the fun hybrids of late in the 29 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: past few years. So but I also had to wait 30 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: until now all of this is saying to do this 31 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: episode one. June is a very prolific time for roses, 32 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,559 Speaker 1: so it's kind of thematically right. But um, I knew 33 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,279 Speaker 1: that if we did this episode two early in the spring, 34 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: that I would be tempted to a lot more roses 35 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: as a consequence, and I'm already kind of out of 36 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: space for places to put them. So I had to 37 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: wait until we were at the point when growers and 38 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: nurseries won't ship to us anymore because we're out of 39 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: the planting season. So you're getting this in late June 40 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 1: so that I can manage my own online shopping problems. 41 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: That seems legitimate the history of roses. I conversely have 42 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: an episode that I've been wanting to do for a 43 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: while that has just been painful to work on and 44 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: I still have not finished it and it's been weeks. 45 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: So we'll surprise everyone with which episodes those are slash, 46 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: that is, when they come out. Yeah, sometimes Tracy and 47 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: I had to be careful about how we manage our 48 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: own subjects. Uh And just as a caveat, I kind 49 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: of said a similar thing at the beginning of our 50 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: history of Veterinary medicine. This is, you know, definitely an overview. 51 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 1: A lot has happened in the literal millions of years 52 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: since roses have existed on this planet. Uh. So we 53 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: can't cover every bit of minutia, but we're giving you 54 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: the broad strokes of like the key moments. And on 55 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: that note, In a history of Roses prepared for the 56 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: American Rose Society, historian Jerry Haynes wrote, quote, Roses are 57 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: incredibly complex, and many rose Arians are opinionated. That makes 58 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: for a which is brew of nonaligned thinking and some 59 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: downright nasty disagreements. You may have heard the saying that 60 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: I went to a fight and a rose meeting broke out. 61 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: This is because there is a lot of room for conjecture, 62 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: angry opinions, and wild guesses. This sort of made me 63 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: laugh one because I had never heard that expression, but 64 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: it's quite delightful and too. It made me think of 65 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: Downton Abbey, where there's some rose drama on the show. 66 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: I actually have a Doubton Abbey rose in my garden now, 67 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: which is named for violet. But this one genus of 68 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: plant is perhaps the most famed in human history. I 69 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: would go so far as to say it is, but 70 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: I'm always a little bit reticent about superlatives, but it's 71 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: the most famous. It's revered for its beauty, it's used symbolically, 72 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: of course, it's made into consumables. There is a war 73 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: named after them. We'll touch on that briefly. And in 74 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,239 Speaker 1: President Ronald Reagan made the rose the national floral emblem 75 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: of the United States. But roses predate civilization as we 76 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: know it by a significant margin. Yeah, they've existed for 77 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: literally millions of years, But the image of the rose 78 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: that you probably think of doesn't look much like the 79 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: ones blooming in Asia as far back as an estimated 80 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: seventy million years ago, or in North America thirty five 81 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: million years ago. Ancient wild roses were fairly simple as 82 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,119 Speaker 1: some wild roses still today are, but even more simple 83 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: than that. Many had only five pedals that bloomed into 84 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: sort of a disc like shape. And curiously, roses are 85 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: Northern Hemisphere natives. It's not yet understood why they are 86 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: native to more than one continent in the Northern Hemisphere 87 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: but not to the Southern Hemisphere. Yeah, I think you 88 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: can probably if you're a very good gardener, transplant sum 89 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: but in terms of naturally growing, they just have never 90 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: sprung up there. The oldest of roses are considered the 91 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: species roses, So these are varieties of roses that developed 92 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: in nature without human intervention. So those ancient ancient ones 93 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: as well as as more recent ones but that are 94 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: still uncultivated, and those became the basis of all cultivated roses. 95 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: But for a long time they did just find on 96 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 1: their own. And there are some species rose groups that 97 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 1: continue to grow today and that you can even purchase, 98 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: as well as some that are just growing in the wild. 99 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: And in addition to their simple blooms, they had some 100 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: of the hallmarks of roses, so thorns, sepals, and hips, 101 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: just like your modern roses, but they looked a little different. 102 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: Roses have appeared in art and Minoan crete dating back 103 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: to se b C, and Egyptian floral reads stated Circle 104 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: one seventy CE feature a species of roses actually still 105 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: living today. This is the Rosa ricardi, also known as 106 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: the Rosa sancta, and it's colloquially known as the Holy 107 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: rose of Abyssinia. In the fifth century b C. Herodotus 108 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: wrote of a garden in Macedonia that housed roses, but 109 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: what exact kinds of roses were there remains a matter 110 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: of guesswork. There are also Biblical references to roses, but similarly, 111 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: it's unclear if those references are correctly translated, or if 112 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: the flowers in the text were actually something else, and 113 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: then in translation rose kind of got subbed in for 114 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: a flowering plant. Humans began cultivating roses starting roughly five 115 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: thousand years ago. The oldest species of rose that continues 116 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: today is the Rosa gallica, which is also called a 117 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: French rose, that dates back to twelve hundred b C 118 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: and has been growing in Asia and parts of Europe 119 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: since that time. Yeah A lot of roses invoke French names, 120 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: just f y I, They're not all the same. The 121 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: damn As grows, known by its Latin name Rosa demascene 122 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: and named for Damascus, is a descendant of that French rose. 123 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: It has been around since at least nine variations of 124 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: the Damas grows developed through cross breeding, became common eventually, 125 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: and as the Roman Empire came into power, roses really 126 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: really benefited. In the eastern parts of the Roman Empire, 127 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: roses became incredibly popular, not just for their beauty, but 128 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: for a wide range of other uses. So important was 129 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: the rose and Roman culture that massive public rose gardens 130 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: were established, and of course, fragrant roses were used to 131 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: create perfumes. Various parts of the plants were and still 132 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: are commonly used as curatives, and rose petals were used 133 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: in Roman times to create natural confetti, which is sort 134 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: of a lovely image. Throughout the Mediterranean during the Roman Empire, 135 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: rose based products, as well as the plants themselves, were 136 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: bartered among various cultures as they traveled their usual trade routes. 137 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: The first known catalog of roses in the Western world 138 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: was compiled circuit three BC by a Greek scientist and 139 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: philosopher name Theophrastus, a student of Aristotle. Theophrastus is sometimes 140 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: called the father of botany for his extensive writing on plants, 141 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: and his rose related research provides some of the earliest 142 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: detailed analyzes of their physical composition. And in the first 143 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: century Pliny the Elder wrote about roses. He talked of 144 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,239 Speaker 1: them being manipulated into blooming in the off season, sometimes 145 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: over and over in various locations, because those multi blooms 146 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about later, we're not naturally occurring. 147 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: As roses have been cultivated by humans, they've also taken 148 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: on various symbolic associations, including meanings based on their colors. 149 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: Of course, during the War of the Roses, York was 150 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: represented by white roses and Lancaster by red. The white 151 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: York rose Rosa alba dates back to the second century, 152 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: and these roses continue to exist today, flourishing in naturally 153 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: colder climates. Yeah, they need a little winter to actually succeed. 154 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: This is a thing about roses that I was completely 155 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: misinformed on and understood only much more recently. Like in 156 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: my head, roses were much more delicate and required pretty 157 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: uh temperate climate. Year round, and then my first springtime 158 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: in Boston and I would walk through our neighborhood and 159 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: they would just be these beautiful roses flourishing everywhere. I 160 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: did not know that was possible, and then I felt ignorant. 161 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 1: If you haven't been around him, uh yeah, I mean 162 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: a lot of roses are very very hearty. It's one 163 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: of the reasons they've become so popular globally is that, again, 164 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: if you're living in the northern Hemisphere, they often do 165 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: very well with very very little effort on the part 166 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: of amateur gardeners. Almost anyone can grow rose, and one 167 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: rose in particular that's noted in Europe in the late 168 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: fift hundreds is the rosa centifolia and santifolia means one 169 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: hundred leaves, and these flowers are also known as cabbage 170 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: roses because of their round, thickly petaled blooms. At that point, 171 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: leaves is actually probably referring to pebbles. That nomenclature didn't 172 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: really exist, but Plymy and Theophrastus both wrote about roses 173 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 1: with a hundred leaves, but there was no clear evidence 174 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: of such roses existing until the late sixteenth century. Like 175 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: we had these two writings that referenced them, but we 176 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: didn't really have anything that resembled the hundred leaf rose 177 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: until we started seeing them pretty commonly in the sixteenth century. 178 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: There is reference to a rose in the book herbal 179 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 1: written by John Garrard, and that describes roses that seemed 180 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: to align with these hundred leaved flowers that were described 181 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 1: in older writings. It didn't get the nickname cabbage rose 182 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: until the seventeen hundreds, though. And coming up, we're going 183 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: to talk about the roses of seventeenth century Europe. But 184 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: first we're gonna take a little break so we can 185 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: hear from one of our sponsors. Almost a hundred and 186 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: fifty years after the conclusion of the conflict between your 187 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: in Lancaster, Charles, the first of England's royal botanist, wrote 188 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 1: of English white roses in Sine that botanist John Parkinson 189 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: described two kinds of white roses, one thicker and more 190 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: abundant with flowers than the other, although he noted the 191 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 1: differences could be caused by environmental factors, saying quote some 192 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: do judge these to be but one kind. The diversity 193 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: happening by the air or ground, or both Parkinson wrote 194 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: as well, of a carnation rose, using the Latin rosa incarnata, 195 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: and at this point the use of the word carnation 196 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 1: was associated with basically the scan tone of white people, 197 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: so it's likely that he was writing of a pale, 198 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: pinkish bloom. Throughout the sixteen hundreds, roses went through a 199 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: massive surge in popularity. They were so valued that roses 200 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: and even rose water were sometimes used as currency in Europe, 201 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: and by that time they were also very common as 202 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: part of medical treatments. Paradisis terrestris, one of Parkinson's books, 203 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: is the first English book to discuss roses as arden 204 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: plants rather than as medicinal plants. Roses had of course 205 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: been grown for their beauty before that time, both in 206 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: England and elsewhere, but most writing about them had a 207 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: lot more to do with their practical uses instead of 208 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: their visual appeal. Initially, even roses grown in the garden 209 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: setting weren't really the focal point of any landscape plan. 210 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: They tended to be relegated to the edges, but eventually 211 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 1: they came into uses hedges and its accents, and then 212 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: slowly kind of moved to be the center of some gardens. 213 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: The writings about roses being used medicinal ng are also 214 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: clouded by poor nomenclature and classification. For example, the word 215 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: rose or rosa became so commonly used that it started 216 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: to apply to other plants or flowers that were not 217 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: actually roses. Additionally, the plants were often described with less 218 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: than ideal to tail, for modern readers to figure out 219 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: just what specific plant the writer might have been talking about. 220 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: I know I ran into that difficulty when I was 221 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: looking for artwork to go with this episode, and I just, Uh, 222 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: the farther that I went back in are the more 223 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not sure that's actually a rose. Yeah, yeah, 224 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: there are some that, like I said, they just got 225 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: sub dright in. That's a very pretty cuss of petals 226 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: colored rose. Uh. Incidentally, Parkinson was also the first writer 227 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: to describe a native North American rose species being grown 228 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: in Europe, so it had traveled across the Atlantic and back. 229 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: In sixty he wrote Theatrum botanic Um, and he said 230 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: in it quote, the Virginia briar rose hath diverse as 231 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: great stems and branches as any other rose, whose young 232 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: are green and the elder grayish set with many small 233 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: prickles and a few great thorns among them. The leaves 234 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: are very green and shining, small and almost round, many 235 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: set on a middle rib, one against the other, somewhat 236 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: like unto the single yellow rose. The flower stand at 237 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: the tops of the branches, consisting of five small leaves 238 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: or a pale, purple or deep incarnate color like, unto 239 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: those the sweet briar, which fall away quickly, as though 240 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: and others do. In the mid sixteen hundreds, herbalist Nicholas 241 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: Culpepper wrote a book titled herbal And which he discussed 242 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: the many health benefits roses had to offer. He wrote, quote, 243 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: the white and red roses are cooling and drying, and 244 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: yet the white is taken to exceed red in both 245 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: the properties, but as seldom used inwardly in any medicine. 246 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: The bitterness and the roses when they are fresh, especially 247 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: the juice purges, color and watery humors. But being dried, 248 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: and the heat which caused the bitterness being consumed, they 249 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: have then a binding and a stringent quality. Culpepper was 250 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: full of ideas about roses medicinal qualities. Uh He suggested 251 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: that an extract made from red roses could be combined 252 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: with wine to treat headaches, ear ache, sore eyes, sore throat, 253 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: or irritated gums. I will confess that part of me 254 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: is like, are you maybe just drunk and you don't 255 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: feel sick anymore? Um, that's the case with so many 256 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: patent medicines UH. For chest pain, he prescribed a similar 257 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: her formula, still with the roses in it, uh, presumably 258 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: to make something more like a poultice or a pace 259 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: that you would apply on the area over your heart. 260 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: That same compound could be applied to the abdomen for 261 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: belly aches. And he also said that a powder made 262 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: from the yellow strings from the middle of the rose 263 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: quote drank in the distilled water of quinces, stays the 264 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: overflowing of women's courses. He really thought, basically that red 265 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: roses were full of uses, and he even stated quote 266 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: to write at large of every one of these would 267 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: make my book swell too big, it being sufficient for 268 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: a volume of itself to speak fully of them. But 269 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: just the same, he really did talk a lot about roses, 270 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: and specifically red roses, and what you could do with 271 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: them to improve your health in his book and the 272 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: Late seventeenth century, grafting was being used as a way 273 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: to manipulate roses. Was common for gardeners to graft roses 274 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: onto briars to sculpt blooming plants. Multiple different roses were 275 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: sometimes grafted onto one root stock to create unique and 276 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: visually spectacular garden teachers, Yeah, there are some writings where 277 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: you'll see them counting the many numbers of different kinds 278 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: of roses that are blossoming on a single uh brier. Similarly, 279 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: there was not much in the way of documentation of 280 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: the work that had been done along the Mediterranean and 281 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: then throughout Europe to cross breed and cultivate roses. It 282 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: really wasn't until the nineteenth century that records of the 283 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: work that was being done in greenhouses and gardens in 284 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: relation to the genus Rosa started to be kind of consistent. 285 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: The earliest organized breeding program that's fully documented began in Perth, 286 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: Scotland in sevente Wild Scotch roses were brought into the 287 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: Dixon and Brown Nursery and one of those plants produced 288 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: flowers with a hint of red in them. From that plant, 289 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: a new one was bred with double flowers, and they 290 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: selectively bred from that and so on until the nursery 291 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: had cultivated eight different double roses. And selective breeding had 292 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: most certainly been done before this, including in China and 293 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: the Middle East, and we're gonna talk a lot more 294 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: about China and the min it, but this marks the 295 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: first time that we know of that careful records of 296 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: that process were kept and survive for us to read today. 297 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: And roses from China really changed everything once they were 298 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 1: introduced to Europe. But this aspect of rose history, like 299 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: so many others, is not always clear. For one thing, 300 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: as roses moved along trading routes, they would sometimes be 301 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: attributed not to their place of origin, which was China, 302 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: but to another stop on the trade route, which was India. 303 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: And as corrections were attempted in this record, sometimes that 304 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: just meant the same plant was described as coming from China, India, 305 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,719 Speaker 1: and Bengal, depending on whose account you read. Yeah. And 306 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: then like there would be roses that were traded maybe 307 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: in India, and they had started in China, but then 308 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: they led to different uh cultivations native to India. And 309 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: because a lot of people were creating similar things or 310 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: seeing similar plants, but at different points on the curve. 311 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: There are some roses that have multiple different names. Rose 312 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: naming is a very tricky arena with a lot of duplicates, 313 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: and you'll see sometimes the same exact plant given to 314 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: different names, and that's part of why. But in any case, 315 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: while there were some Chinese roast species in Europe by 316 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: the mid eighteenth century, it wasn't until the late seventeen 317 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,479 Speaker 1: hundreds that trade relations were established between Britain and China, 318 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: and China's horticultural expertise completely changed the Western world's knowledge 319 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: of the possibilities of roses. Chinese gardeners had been working 320 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: with roses for thousands of years at that point, but 321 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: as we said, little record of that work that was 322 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: done to breed them was preserved. While there were a 323 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: number of cultivated and wild roses from China introduced into Europe, 324 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: four eventually arrived that caused a huge shift in the 325 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: genetic possibilities that were open to cultivators. These are referred 326 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: to as the four stud China's This reminds me of 327 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: like the foundation sires from horse breeding that we talked 328 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: about in the Kentucky Derby episode. It's exactly the same idea, 329 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: except what's interesting is that since, like we talk or 330 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: if you read any books about roses in their their 331 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: historical cultivation, they talk about the four stud China's, like, 332 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: you know, with great reverence and import but we don't 333 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: know exactly how those were even developed. So there's it's 334 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: kind of funny to me that this whole foundation is 335 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: built on a thing we can't quite identify the lineage 336 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 1: of the first though of the four stead China's, as 337 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: a pink rose called old Blessed China. It also had 338 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: an older nickname, which was Parsons Pink China, and it 339 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: was described by one English writer as quote the most 340 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: elegant rose and also quote justly considered as one of 341 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: the greatest ornaments ever introduced to this country. The second 342 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: of the four stud China's to arrive in Europe was 343 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: called Slater's Crimson and was, as you might surmise read, 344 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: had large flowers and bloomed year round. It didn't require 345 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: much care, and it was described in Curtis's Botanical Magazine 346 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: has a plant which quote maybe reared almost in a 347 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:05,199 Speaker 1: coffee cup, is kept with the least possible trouble, and 348 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: propagated without difficulty. Both it and the parsons pink China 349 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: were being grown in European gardens by the end of 350 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: the seventeen hundreds. In the early eighteen hundreds, humes blushed 351 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: tea scented China joined the stud China's and it was 352 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: alleged as that name indicates, to have a fragrance of tea, 353 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: although there is a bit of debate that goes on 354 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,479 Speaker 1: and on as to whether or not that characterization of 355 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 1: scent is accurate. That rose initially traveled to Europe via 356 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: the East India Company, and there are sums that have 357 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: speculated that it may have taken on the scent of 358 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: the teas that were imported at the same time, and 359 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: that that's what people were smelling and not a pleasant 360 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: odor produced by the bloom. The fourth of the stud 361 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: China's was the Parks of Yellow, which people were extremely 362 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: excited about because it was yellow. Yeah, there had been 363 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 1: a lot of effort to cultivate healthy yellow roses for 364 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,360 Speaker 1: quite some time, but it was really tricky to get 365 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: like a really true saturated color with it. So this 366 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: like opened up the genetic possibilities in a huge way 367 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: and people were very excited about it. Uh And next 368 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: up we're going to talk about how Empress Josephine Bonaparte 369 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: helped the cause of roses in Europe. But before we 370 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: do list pause, we'll have a little sponsor break. Once 371 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: the four stud China roses were incorporated into breeding programs 372 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: in Europe and North America, rose varieties almost literally exploded 373 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 1: in number. Like you just could not keep up with 374 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: all of the cross breeding that people were doing. As 375 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: these exciting new plants were making their collective debut in 376 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: the Western world, Napoleon Bonaparte's wife became one of the 377 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: roses greatest champions. West of Paris. At her chateau New 378 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: mademoisean Empress Josephine Bonaparte had a massive rose garden planted. 379 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: She was so enamored of roses and so dedicated to 380 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: them that she wanted a sample of freek known rose 381 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 1: in the world in her collection. She hired expert gardeners 382 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: to tend and develop them, and she amassed more than 383 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: two hundred fifty species in her garden. Knowing that the 384 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: winters would be hard on some of her beloved plants, 385 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: she had greenhouses built with their own coal burning heat sources, 386 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: which is amazing and horticulturally really cool because at that 387 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,959 Speaker 1: point plenty of humans are not living as well as 388 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: her plants. Yeah, it's cool from a horticultural standpoint, but 389 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: from a human one exactly. I have this like mental image, 390 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: and I have no like historical documentation to back this up, 391 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: but I just had this mental image of like impoverished 392 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: people staring at these greenhouses, like where the plants are 393 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: being heated in winter, and thinking, are you kidding me? 394 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: That would be really nice for us to not be cold. 395 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: Botanical illustrator Peter Joseph dot who was an artist who 396 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: served in the court of Louis the sixteenth and Marie Antoinette, 397 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: and also managed to continue to be successful throughout the 398 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: French Revolution. He did not become victimized by his associations. 399 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: Published a collection of watercolor simply titled Rose in three 400 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: volumes over the course of eighteen seventeen to eighteen twenty four, 401 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: and the illustrations that he included in that collection are 402 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: generally seen as his finest work. Many continue to be 403 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: reprinted today, both in books and as just prints that 404 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: you can purchase, and his research for that art was 405 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: conducted in the garden planted by Empress Josephine, Napoleon's wife 406 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: had been re Dute's patron for years, but unfortunately she 407 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: did not live to see his work in her garden 408 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: come to fruition. He started publishing a few years after 409 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: her death. In eighteen sixty seven, the first hybrid tea 410 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: rose was introduced by a French nurseryman named John Baptiste Gillo, 411 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: and it was called La France, which tickles me. What 412 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: was part of a contest? It still tickles me. T 413 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: Roses refers to plants that had been bread using humes 414 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: blush and parks double yellow, and the tea scent vanished 415 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,959 Speaker 1: in the breeding, but this name has remained. I didn't 416 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: know that that was where the name came from. Yeah, 417 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people and I certainly did 418 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: this for a long time. You kind of make up 419 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: associations in your head, like, oh, that would be lovely 420 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: on a tea table. That must be why these are called. 421 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: I thought they are small and delicate, like teacups. That's why. 422 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: See it's the same thing. Uh. Incidentally, I poked around one. 423 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: Like I said at the top of this show, I 424 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: have a bad habit of getting excited about things we 425 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: talked about wanting to purchase them, so I looked around 426 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 1: for La France and I did find a nursery that 427 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: claims to have them, but they're not in season right 428 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: now to sell. But you better believe next year, I'm 429 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: going to look for him uh and find a place 430 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: in the yard. I will make a place, will make 431 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: it happen. The La France rose, which as I just said, 432 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: is still produced today, was a massive step forward in 433 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: rose breeding. So up to that point there had been 434 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: many efforts to create a repeat flowering rose instead of 435 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: one that just bloomed once to ring its blooming season 436 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: and then not again. But La France was the first 437 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: success in this. Not only are it soft pink flowers 438 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: which look very creamy and beautiful, lush and full, but 439 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: it produces them over and over in its blooming season 440 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: instead of just one time and then done. And it 441 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,719 Speaker 1: was initially difficult to breed La France because it had 442 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: a chromosomal abnormality, so when other people try to use 443 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: it to create their own they had some problems, but 444 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: it inspired a great deal of additional breeding work and 445 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: research to create similarly prolific bloomers. The moment of la 446 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 1: frances unveiling is commonly used as the dividing line between 447 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: what are known as old garden roses and modern roses. 448 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: The American Rose Society uses these two groups plus species 449 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: roses to sort out all of the many, many varieties 450 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: of rose. And that's tricky, anybody will tell you. Even 451 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 1: the lines of those groups are not always consistent. Uh, 452 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: there are some fuzzy spots in the middle, or some 453 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: that overlap each other a little bit. And as we 454 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: mentioned when discussing roses ancient origins, species roses or those 455 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: that existed naturally, old garden roses are in very basic terms, 456 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: hybrids developed through cross pollinating species roses. The old garden 457 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: group includes white Alba roses, which can include shades of 458 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: creamy whites that also have some hints of soft pink, 459 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 1: Demas roses and China roses. And then modern roses include 460 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: hybrid tea roses, Flora bundas, and Grande Flora's, and we're 461 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: going to talk about those types in just a moment. 462 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: Gio made another significant contribution to rose history in eighteen 463 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: seventy five when he introduced a Polyantha rose, which was 464 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: a small compact plant that produced very tightly packed blooms. 465 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: The Guillo family, by the way, continues to go roses 466 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 1: from their families history as well as breed new roses 467 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: in their nursery in France. Yeah they're in Urche's near 468 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: the Belgian border. And all of this work done to 469 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: create new plants with lush, multi layered blooms also resulted 470 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: in plants that needed less shaping through pruning. Old garden 471 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: roses were generally very hardy. They could survive in a 472 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: lot of different soil conditions, and they could resist many 473 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: pests and fungus, but newer roses continued to improve on 474 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: those qualities, and as we just mentioned, modern roses also 475 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: produced more flowers, whereas most old garden roses only bloomed 476 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: in one season per year. The modern era of hybridization 477 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: also led to advancements in color variation, so whereas shades 478 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: in the spectrum of white to red where the most 479 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: common and the rose population, hybridization leads to more and 480 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: more colors. Yellow roses had been sought after in Europe 481 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: for centuries, and there was some success in developing through 482 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: grafting and improving a species from Turkey to produce double flowers. 483 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,719 Speaker 1: Today For example, you can find roses and shades of 484 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: orange and apricot, dark purple's, multicolor varieties, and some that 485 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: even approached black, although no true black rose has been 486 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: created yet. No, they're definitely Nursery is hard at work 487 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: on it. I guarantee you right this minute, because it's 488 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: one of those things that people want. We all want 489 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: a little gothic garden. I do. I have some very 490 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: dark purples that I love, love, love, but they don't 491 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: quite get black. Old garden roses really did have one 492 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: particular area where they outpaced their hybridized modern cousins for 493 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: quite some time, though, and that was with their aromatic sense. 494 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: While the modern breeding of roses has produced flowers that 495 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: smell like the seven scents that are normally associated with 496 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: roses that include citrus, clove tea, violet apple, and nastritium, 497 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,120 Speaker 1: the classic rose scent of old garden roses, in particular 498 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: was stronger than what you would smell necessarily in most 499 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: rose scented flowers today, like that smell that you associate 500 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: with roses, Although there is ongoing work to produce more 501 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: and more fragrant roses. For a while in breeding beautiful 502 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: things a roma was less important, but a lot of 503 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: home gardeners have made it known that they would really 504 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: like to have beautiful smelling flowers as well as beautiful 505 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: looking flowers, so there is more breeding work going on 506 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: to produce more fragrant blooms. Today, it is unknown how 507 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: many different species of rose exists. Wild roses are difficult 508 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: to track, and we don't know how many have survived 509 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: through time, how many naturally hybridized and created new species, etcetera. Additionally, 510 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: some species change genetically over time without hybridization, and some 511 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: varieties raise a great deal of debate because they are 512 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,719 Speaker 1: so close to others, and people argue about whether they 513 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: should be considered separate species. And walking back to the 514 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: passage we read at the beginning of the episode, things 515 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: can get incredibly contentious in the rose expert community. Yeah. Also, 516 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even I'm sure there are people 517 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: that do such things, but I don't even know how 518 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: you would begin to try to catalog all of the 519 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: existing roses on Earth. Hybrid tea roses make up the 520 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: majority of roses that are grown in gardens today. The 521 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: other groups of rose are the Flora bunda roses, which 522 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: are crosses of hybrid tea roses and polyantha and grand 523 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,959 Speaker 1: of Flora roses, which are crossbreeds of hybrid tea roses 524 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: and Flora Bundus. Roses of course also come in climbing 525 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: varieties and shrubs and miniatures, but hybrid tea roses are 526 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: the hardy ones that most gardens are going to have 527 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: a lot of. If you have a home garden, you 528 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: probably have that. If you have roses, We're gonna talk 529 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: a bit about roses and food and medicine today. Rose 530 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: Hips have been used as an edible for hundreds of 531 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: years across many cultures. The hips are those bulbous, fruit 532 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: like bumps that form at the end of a bloom 533 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: after the petals have fallen off, and that's where the 534 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: seeds develop. They start off green and they usually turn 535 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: red as they make sure. Rose Hips are used to 536 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: make tea, jelly and other foods, and then rose syrups 537 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: are usually made from the oil distilled from the rose petals. Yeah, 538 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna make rose jelly this year. I decided, Oh, 539 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: that sounds because I have a lot of rose bushes 540 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: at this point, and I might as well. But I 541 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: had to do more research because like the the seeds, 542 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: you want to hold out. One of the things that 543 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: will come up if you look up whether or not 544 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: roses or poisonous, they're generally not. Some people will mention 545 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: that there is a minute amount of cyanide in the seeds, 546 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: similar to the way there is a minute amount of 547 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: cyanide in an apple seed. It's very scary when you 548 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: see the word cyanide, but really there they're one. You 549 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: are not eating the seeds. Theoretically too, if you did, 550 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: it's a very tiny, tiny amount, but even so, be 551 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: careful and take care of you. But I'm totally making 552 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: rose jelly. But the other thing it's interesting about rose 553 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: hips is that they are naturally very high in vitamin C, 554 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: and so they are often used in cold and flute remedies. 555 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: But there is a trick here because the process of 556 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: drying the hips to produce medicine destroys a lot of 557 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: their vitamin C content. So if you're purchasing like a 558 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: rose hip based vitamin C item, a lot of the 559 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: time they're supplemented with other sources because even after they're 560 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: dried and made into a thing, the vitamin C that 561 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: comes from the rose hips degrades pretty rapidly. It's also 562 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: unclear how beneficial vitamin C really is, right, Uh. I 563 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: know when I was in massage school slash working as 564 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: a massage therapist, there were lots of complimentary and alternative 565 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: medicine uses for roses and for rose oil and for 566 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: rose water, and a lot of them had to do 567 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: with like your minstrel cycle or childbirth. Uh. Yeah, I 568 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: find rose things also just very very delicious, Like a 569 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,479 Speaker 1: good rose syrup in a cocktail is heaven to me? Heaven? 570 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah. I love the fragrance of roses 571 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: a lot. Uh, and it I find it to be 572 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: very calming. It is. I like all of the cookie 573 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: smelling roses, Like we have one that smells very heavily 574 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: of clove and one that smells very heavily of citrus, 575 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: And I just love them because they're so sort of 576 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: I had not known prior to owning this house and 577 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: those plants, one of which came with the house, that 578 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: I was like, rose, this rose smells like oranges? What 579 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: is that? I had never been exposed to a roses 580 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: smell like oranges before seven years ago. Somehow make a 581 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: chip to Atlanta when your roses are blooming, then uh yeah, 582 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: that one we're right in the middle, like it hit 583 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: through a bunch of blooms and then you know, I 584 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: deadhead them because you pull the the bloomed bits off 585 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: because if you have read, I need to do the 586 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: science to back this up, but this is what I've 587 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: read that if you let them develop their hips, they 588 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: will stop blooming as much. So we pull the heads 589 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: off and they're not. The plant is is getting the 590 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: message that it should continue to bloom because it, you know, 591 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: plants want to produce fruit. That's what it's doing, wants 592 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: to to seed and propagate. But if all of this 593 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: talk has inspired you to create your own rose, that 594 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: is actually a thing that you can do. Amateur gardeners 595 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: can cross breed this. San Francisco Gate actually has a 596 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: really nice guide for amateur hybrid breeders that walks you 597 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: through the whole process, and we're going to include that 598 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,439 Speaker 1: in the show notes. So if you think you would 599 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: like to develop your own rooms, you can. Although there 600 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,760 Speaker 1: are lots and lots of expert gardeners and nurseries around 601 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: the world constantly coming up with new and really beautiful 602 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: and amazing roses, so probably you will not be competing 603 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: with them, but you can make your own unique hybrid 604 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: at home if you are patient. Hey so much for 605 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: joining us on this Saturday. Since this episode is out 606 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: of the archive, if you heard an email address or 607 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: Facebook U r L or something similar over the course 608 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: of the show, that could be obsolete now. Our current 609 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: email address is History Podcast at i heart radio dot com. 610 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: Our old house stuff works email address no longer works, 611 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,399 Speaker 1: and you can find us all over social media at 612 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: missed in History. And you can subscribe to our show 613 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, the I heart Radio app, 614 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: and wherever else you listen to podcasts. 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