Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording
Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters
Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives.
Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The
Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure
Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I
Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season.
Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and
Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find
Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt
Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the
Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality,
Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl
Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. This is the story of a man
Speaker 1: who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and
Speaker 1: that's a name you don't forget. He was a visionary
Speaker 1: who built a fortune as a black man during Jim
Speaker 1: Crow during the Depression, but today not many people know
Speaker 1: about him. The race sort of wiped out, and I
Speaker 1: wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy
Speaker 1: Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts and Nomadic Engine, the
Speaker 1: acclaimed dramatic thriller returns after Shock season two. He's like
Speaker 1: a ghost. We had an agreement to keep each other's secret.
Speaker 1: None of you were making decisions to keep the rest
Speaker 1: of us safe, which leaves me I'm asking for your forgiveness.
Speaker 1: After Shock season two, starring Sarahween, Kelly's David Harbor and
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Listened to Aftershock on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It was
Speaker 1: perhaps the first time George White to the fourth heard
Speaker 1: his mother's voice in the four years since the family
Speaker 1: was arrested. And you think that my funded yes, how
Speaker 1: you editively? No? I want the truth from you, Okay,
Speaker 1: did something happen? You can see her attempting to fool
Speaker 1: you know, everyone involved in this. Let's face it, We've
Speaker 1: got eight dead bodies, four separate locations. How in the
Speaker 1: world do you think that you can escape that this
Speaker 1: is the Pike and massacre. Returned to Pike County season four,
Speaker 1: episode four teen, the matriarch speaks. It's important to note
Speaker 1: that George Wagner the fourth has pleaded not guilty and
Speaker 1: has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner,
Speaker 1: whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to
Speaker 1: all charges. In the previous episode, we heard about how
Speaker 1: law enforcement came to view the Wagners as suspects and
Speaker 1: the murders of the Rodin, Manly and Gilly families. Before
Speaker 1: it was suspicion and things weren't adding up. Lead investigator
Speaker 1: Ryan Schierer says that changed about a year after the
Speaker 1: homicides when BCI agents matched spent shell casings at the
Speaker 1: Wagner's home in Peebles. Based on that, ballistics evidence agents
Speaker 1: used search warrants to take deep dives into mobile devices
Speaker 1: used by George Wagner, who's on trial for murder his
Speaker 1: brother Jake, and their parents Billy and Angela Wagner. After
Speaker 1: originally preparing to intercept the Wagners in North Dakota, investigators
Speaker 1: had to scramble to intercept the family at another Canadian
Speaker 1: border entry point. The Wagners were house hunting in Alaska.
Speaker 1: As they returned, agents intercepted them at the Canadian border
Speaker 1: a year after the murders. Now Wagner is accused of
Speaker 1: helping kill eight members of the Rodent and Gillie families.
Speaker 1: Investigators detained the Wagners and placed each member of the
Speaker 1: family in a separate room. At this time, I believe
Speaker 1: you indicated that you were going to interview them as
Speaker 1: suspects instead of your prior contacts with them. Correct The
Speaker 1: gigs help They knew we were looking at them. While
Speaker 1: the Wagners were in custody, agencies to laptop and an
Speaker 1: iPad from their vehicle. Law enforcement also placed listening devices
Speaker 1: in the Wagner's SUV and bug their phones. Upon cross examination,
Speaker 1: John Parker from the defense brings up the quality of
Speaker 1: the audio obtained from the bug the agents placed in
Speaker 1: the Wagner's vehicle. There's really nothing useful that came from
Speaker 1: those listening devices on the vehicles at Paris. I did
Speaker 1: not work as well as we hoped. Correct, right, There
Speaker 1: was nothing useful data correct, The quality of the audio
Speaker 1: was less than desirable. There was nothing useful game correct.
Speaker 1: Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati, now with
Speaker 1: Local twelve. And as it turns out, that was kind
Speaker 1: of a snap foo too because the road noise drowned
Speaker 1: out anything they could hear. They really didn't get really
Speaker 1: much of anything out of that except you know, when
Speaker 1: everybody came out. They came out one at a time
Speaker 1: and they sat there and they didn't talk about anything. Normally,
Speaker 1: if you're innocent and you're pulled over and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you get out of a four out or interview,
Speaker 1: you're going to be asking your family members what the
Speaker 1: heck is going on. None of that. Nothing was hurt
Speaker 1: like that on those recordings. Because of the rush to
Speaker 1: set up in Montana as opposed to North Dakota, agents
Speaker 1: weren't able to videotape the interviews since the bug in
Speaker 1: the vehicle did not pick up usable audio. The audio
Speaker 1: recordings of the interviews at the Canadian border, where all
Speaker 1: the investigators had you interviewed Jake. Is that correct, Yes,
Speaker 1: myself and special agent Maltered. Okay, and do you recall
Speaker 1: how long that interview loves, approximately four to six hours.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a long yes, And Judge, we would ask
Speaker 1: that we'd be allowed to play Jay Zone to At
Speaker 1: this point, the prosecution of Jack's and Judge Dering instructs
Speaker 1: the jury to leave the room for a fifteen minute recess.
Speaker 1: Judge Jarring asked for the prosecution and defense to present
Speaker 1: their arguments on whether Jake's taped interviews should be played
Speaker 1: for the court. Just the plane reading of evidence, Rule
Speaker 1: eight O one says that the co conspiracydent is attributed
Speaker 1: to the defendant. There's a lot of talk of rule
Speaker 1: eight to one, but the gist of it is that
Speaker 1: the defense cannot introduces evidence another co conspirator's testimony during
Speaker 1: cross only the state is allowed to do that. That's
Speaker 1: the whole nature of the co conspiracy. So they all
Speaker 1: denied it, right, that was part of the conspiracy. So
Speaker 1: he does not get to put it now. Given when
Speaker 1: Jay testifies, he certainly can use this to cross examine
Speaker 1: him as a hiring consistent statement. At that point, John
Speaker 1: Parker argues that Jake's testimony is part of the defense's
Speaker 1: constitutional right to present a complete defense. The costory of
Speaker 1: shape is covered in ups. We shouldn't have to we
Speaker 1: if they call, which it comes into this officer in
Speaker 1: pro When it's time to make a ruling, Judge Steering
Speaker 1: decides he needs to hear more argument. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to decide ultimately today whether we're going to be able
Speaker 1: to play that tape in the defense side of the case.
Speaker 1: Outside that tomorrow morning, after I've heard arguments here, you
Speaker 1: should be ready about eight forty five to go on
Speaker 1: record and argue that issue, and then I'll make that decis.
Speaker 1: They let the jury back into the courtroom and Judge
Speaker 1: Steering addresses the court. Lady and gentlemen the court. We're
Speaker 1: going to have an early day close today. The court
Speaker 1: has some things to do that do not involve the
Speaker 1: jury during closes the day early to give the defense
Speaker 1: and prosecution time to prepare for tomorrow's hearing. Here again,
Speaker 1: James Pilcher. So I pretty much shut down the trial
Speaker 1: for the afternoon, and actually the judge held it under
Speaker 1: advise me and said I'll rule on it tomorrow. So
Speaker 1: we're all on pins and needles the next day as
Speaker 1: to whether or not we're gonna have to sit through
Speaker 1: six hours of listening to Ryan and Jake talk to
Speaker 1: each other. News media reports the latest development in the
Speaker 1: trial the defense trying to play Jake Wagner's first interrogation
Speaker 1: tape today, but the prosecution said, wait, you can't do that.
Speaker 1: We have to enter that as evidence first, And the
Speaker 1: judge said, show up here tomorrow morning and prepare to
Speaker 1: argue about it and he'll make a decision then. So
Speaker 1: that brings us to tomorrow. Will jurors here Jake Wagner's
Speaker 1: five hour interrogation tape, Will they hear Angela Wagner's two
Speaker 1: hour interrogation tape? And how will George the man on
Speaker 1: trial come up in those tapes? But the next morning,
Speaker 1: it's not Jake's interview that makes news. George Wagner the
Speaker 1: Fourth providing an explosive audio recording of his mom, Angela's
Speaker 1: interrogation by BCI agents. It was perhaps the first time
Speaker 1: George whiten To the fourth heard his mother's voice in
Speaker 1: the four years since the family was arrested. Before the
Speaker 1: jury has brought in judge during Here's arguments about whether
Speaker 1: to allow in the audio recording of Jake's interview from
Speaker 1: when the Wagners were intercepted at the Canadian border. Prosecutor
Speaker 1: Angie Kaneppa lays out her reasons for the objection. Jay
Speaker 1: made a complete denial. There was nothing that was taken
Speaker 1: from that interview by especially that informed next investigative steps.
Speaker 1: So I guess really one question would be for what
Speaker 1: purposes this being requested to be? Here's John Parker with
Speaker 1: the defense, because Jay has angel epispiracy. They are prospirators,
Speaker 1: all right, series and even though the crime I didn't
Speaker 1: even get it done, this recording will reflect Jayce backards
Speaker 1: to cover us. Finally, Judge Darring makes a ruling, well,
Speaker 1: I think I understand the arguments evolved, but I'm going
Speaker 1: to deny the request of defense to play the tape
Speaker 1: at this time. Here again, James Pilcher. One of the
Speaker 1: interesting things about this day was the prosecution specifically chooses
Speaker 1: not to play the tape of the recording they made
Speaker 1: with George, and there were some questions, Okay, why aren't
Speaker 1: they playing this to show what he was saying at
Speaker 1: the time. As for the strategy of this, we think
Speaker 1: possibly they're not playing it. So if and when George
Speaker 1: decides to take the stand, he can't tailor his testimony
Speaker 1: to what he said at the border. And it's actually
Speaker 1: part of this argument about Jake as well, Jake's recording,
Speaker 1: and they say no, that allows him to testify on
Speaker 1: his own behalf without taking the sand. So that's where
Speaker 1: that argument comes up, and it turns into another legal
Speaker 1: battle and it's won. The prosecution wins with Jake's interview
Speaker 1: ruled as inadmissible. At this point in the trial, the
Speaker 1: prosecution calls up their next witness. He's raisu're right, an,
Speaker 1: can you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're
Speaker 1: about to give show me the truth, the whole truths?
Speaker 1: I nothing about the truths as you shall answer and
Speaker 1: to God. BCI Agent Jennifer Comasford has six years experience
Speaker 1: with the Special Investigations Unit in Ohio BCI. She wears
Speaker 1: a polka dot shirt and a blazer with straight brown
Speaker 1: hair that falls to her shoulders. She has relaxed on
Speaker 1: the stand. Agent Commasford was one of the agents present
Speaker 1: for the searches of the Wagner's farm and trailers. She
Speaker 1: was also on the team of agents that to view
Speaker 1: the Wagner's at the Canadian border. You treated it like
Speaker 1: a custodio interview. Tell us what that means. We treated
Speaker 1: it as a custido interview and that we mirandized Angela
Speaker 1: Wagner because we treat it as though she was in custody,
Speaker 1: not free to leave, and that she was being interrogated.
Speaker 1: So we read her her miranda rights. You're on her
Speaker 1: this time. I would request to play the recording of
Speaker 1: Special Agent Comsford's interview with Angela Wagner at the Montana border.
Speaker 1: The prosecution cues up the tape of Angela's interview and
Speaker 1: begins playing it for the jury. The defendant, George Wagner,
Speaker 1: stares down at his feet. But the reason why here
Speaker 1: it was obviously okay, with all that, all that, nobody's
Speaker 1: going down in Pute County, and that's the reason we
Speaker 1: came up here to get away from all that. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: tracing the media is all over itself. Have you been
Speaker 1: following any of that? Of course, yes, you know, we
Speaker 1: just want to get away from down there and talk
Speaker 1: to out Sorry to stale own type family. I think
Speaker 1: it would be best for everybody I have some personal
Speaker 1: questions for you though the last Oh we love it
Speaker 1: here again, James Pilcher. This recording of Angela is really significant.
Speaker 1: First of all, the first time we heard her voice
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. But second of all, it gives us
Speaker 1: a sense of their state of mind as they're becoming
Speaker 1: aware that they're being suspects, are being treated as suspects.
Speaker 1: Agent Coomasford an agent Rick Ward ask about Angela Wagner's
Speaker 1: relationship with the Rodent family. Relationship I had the rigs
Speaker 1: was to Hannah. Hannah and my son Jake, we're together
Speaker 1: for five years? Well yeah, okay, um did an I'm
Speaker 1: getting married. Yes, he had a waiting planned, everything was
Speaker 1: planned out for that August that she had everything organized,
Speaker 1: everything ready, and I love that she wouldn't break And
Speaker 1: she did break and s well it was hurt. Of course,
Speaker 1: she was in love with his life. I mean, my
Speaker 1: son doesn't take anything like like you know why you
Speaker 1: want them? You know what I don't know. I know
Speaker 1: that Hannah was really young when her Jake got together.
Speaker 1: What's the difference between the two. Anna was thirteen, my
Speaker 1: son was seventeen, sixteen and a halfs On investigators ask
Speaker 1: Angela about her relationship with Hanname Rodin. So, your relationship
Speaker 1: with with Hannah was good. I thought she was a
Speaker 1: school brack. But I thought she was a school rap
Speaker 1: because she really was. I mean, no, that's that she was.
Speaker 1: Your dad let her getting away every im she would
Speaker 1: give me looks and she would snarl, and she would
Speaker 1: tell Jacob was being mean. And you know, but that's
Speaker 1: typical teenagers, all typical. Sometimes mother was and ye. The
Speaker 1: agents bring the conversation back to Jake's reaction to Hannah
Speaker 1: Rodin dating other people. So when when Hannah gets pregnant
Speaker 1: with the other thing, Yeah, how did number one with
Speaker 1: the other boyfriend or boyfriends? And Jake? Well one, Jake,
Speaker 1: they would talk to the other boyfriends. Never actually, Jake,
Speaker 1: don't have you ever talked to Charlie Woods Whenever they
Speaker 1: were determined who The paternity test showed that Charlie Gilly
Speaker 1: and not Jake Wagner, was the father of Hannah's second baby.
Speaker 1: The agents ask if Angela was upset about Hannah Ma
Speaker 1: getting pregnant by another man who was not Jake, And
Speaker 1: even she told me she had texted me when she
Speaker 1: texted me about being pregnant. She was afraid I would
Speaker 1: be upset. You're pregnant. I was upset though, I was
Speaker 1: upset when she loved Jake. Yeah. Here's forensic medical examiner
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan. One striking things about this is they
Speaker 1: begin to talk about the fact that Hannah had kind
Speaker 1: of separated herself away from the rest of the family,
Speaker 1: had gone out and gotten pregnant by another guy. And
Speaker 1: I really wonder, you know, she says that that didn't
Speaker 1: necessarily upset her. Does anybody actually believe that, you know,
Speaker 1: because I think that it would have been Angela's desire
Speaker 1: to continue to have controlled, you know, Hannah. You know,
Speaker 1: because if you have control over Hannah, you have control
Speaker 1: over the child that she had with Jake. BCI agent
Speaker 1: record as Angela about Billy Wagner's relationship with Hannah man
Speaker 1: rowdin with Hannah. Oh God, he loved that girl. He
Speaker 1: caught her his breath, you know, even I mean, that's
Speaker 1: why always hold Chris, I said, Chris, even if they
Speaker 1: break up, She's still going to be my daughter. Sorry,
Speaker 1: you're going to have to share. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. Well,
Speaker 1: we know steph from interviewing close Wagner family friends, that
Speaker 1: they were aware that they were kind of under the
Speaker 1: lens of law enforcement, and that they were kind of
Speaker 1: planning for potentially being interrogated or talked to. And so
Speaker 1: when we hear these recordings, it's so interesting and fascinating. Me.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think this is so off the conflict.
Speaker 1: I think they had a little bit of a script
Speaker 1: in their heads. You're right. But again, even if they
Speaker 1: have a script and they have a plan, it's real
Speaker 1: different when you're separated for the first time in being
Speaker 1: asked and questioned by authorities. This is the moment. This,
Speaker 1: by all accounts, is the moment where authorities collected the
Speaker 1: most data that would be later used against them. We're
Speaker 1: going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh.
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The
Speaker 1: girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious,
Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one
Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us
Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to
Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now,
Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will
Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to
Speaker 1: the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm Glabo here, host
Speaker 1: of Revisionist History, a show about the overlooked and the
Speaker 1: misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else. Like our ongoing
Speaker 1: obsessive campaign to blow up the world's most focus college
Speaker 1: ranking system. Why not just throw in a few extra
Speaker 1: zeros or witness me after years of fancy public speaking,
Speaker 1: learning that I kind of have to start over. The
Speaker 1: tone that you had throughout the debate was very similar
Speaker 1: to some of the students that I do work with,
Speaker 1: and that's what I teach them not to do. We're
Speaker 1: making more revisionist history for you this year than ever,
Speaker 1: from places all across this great country, emergency rooms, huge theaters,
Speaker 1: small towns, and shooting righteous and you want to put
Speaker 1: your thumb up like the US Are you gonna pull
Speaker 1: the trigger with this finger here? Okay? Listen to Revisionist
Speaker 1: History on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney Hill is
Speaker 1: going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted
Speaker 1: a situation like this. I just thought it was just
Speaker 1: a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross.
Speaker 1: I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people.
Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you
Speaker 1: find yourself at that line. It's n's ricin and somebody
Speaker 1: needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth,
Speaker 1: Like this is evil and the only person who can
Speaker 1: sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to
Speaker 1: sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers.
Speaker 1: If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to
Speaker 1: speak out disgrace to our gun. Evil should be prosecuted.
Speaker 1: When power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense.
Speaker 1: I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Names Laverne Cox.
Speaker 1: I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne
Speaker 1: Cox Show. You may remember my award winning first season.
Speaker 1: I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible
Speaker 1: guests about important things. People like me have been screaming
Speaker 1: for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What
Speaker 1: they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. They
Speaker 1: will take things away. And I can only hope that
Speaker 1: Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment or you and
Speaker 1: I both know what it took to just get through
Speaker 1: the day in New York City and get home in
Speaker 1: one piece. And so the fact that we're here and
Speaker 1: what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous.
Speaker 1: It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. The
Speaker 1: only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that
Speaker 1: we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us
Speaker 1: and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Laverne Cox
Speaker 1: Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcast be sure to subscribe and share. Agents
Speaker 1: ask ev Angela was ever in Chris rod and Seniors
Speaker 1: trailer Trailer Chris Chris one time one time? Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I don't well listen limits four four years ago. I
Speaker 1: don't like sitting on the couch and has this much
Speaker 1: dog care one stuff. It's his dogs. Uh over great,
Speaker 1: you know I mean but no, I don't like sitting dogs.
Speaker 1: Dogs at least I mean friendly. You don't have to
Speaker 1: worry about anything like that. No, you you have to. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's be this way. Uh, if he's there, you're okay. Okay.
Speaker 1: Chance his fit bull, big, love you dog, sweet as
Speaker 1: he can bag, Okay, Jake. Jake's got to get several
Speaker 1: times by chance, didn't off. She was not particularly a
Speaker 1: fan of the Rodents. Sounds like I thought they were
Speaker 1: too messy, thought, you know, she never went over Christine
Speaker 1: or she went over once for the Fourth of July
Speaker 1: party and it was too smoky and there was too
Speaker 1: much dog air everywhere. Agents then bring it back to
Speaker 1: the murders. So when this occurs, what were your initial thoughts?
Speaker 1: What was horrified? I had just been to my house
Speaker 1: just days before the murders. Angela Wagner says that Hanname
Speaker 1: Rodin came by to show her new baby to Jake
Speaker 1: George and Angela, Okay, was everything cool? Yeah? She was
Speaker 1: making fun of Jake because he had tried to dye
Speaker 1: his hair a little darker brown and it turned out
Speaker 1: more black. And she was making fun of baby, you know,
Speaker 1: about his hair and stuff, and that we were I mean,
Speaker 1: everything was fine. Investigators bring the interview back to the
Speaker 1: day after the murders. How did you first find out
Speaker 1: the news, like in the morning or you know what,
Speaker 1: I don't know it was. It was the morning. How
Speaker 1: an open watching the news? And were you guys together? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Angela tells the agents she was with Billy at the
Speaker 1: Peterson Road residence when she heard the news about the
Speaker 1: Rodents being murdered. What was Jake's response when crying when
Speaker 1: he heard the new you guys all together? He was outsight.
Speaker 1: Agents ask Angela why she thinks the trailers on her
Speaker 1: farm were searched by authorities. Okay, this is the part
Speaker 1: that we gave him everything they needed and then you know,
Speaker 1: we get halfway to the road and they're down are
Speaker 1: searching the farm and then I'm sorry, what they get
Speaker 1: to our stuff and our framers is ridiculous. All they
Speaker 1: had done saying, hey, we want to search. I'd opened
Speaker 1: the door, you know, search. I don't love in the hip.
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner is then asked if there was a written
Speaker 1: cus see agreement between Jake and Annime Rodin. Now, was
Speaker 1: there any type of living will or anything like if
Speaker 1: something were to happen, And this is what we're you know,
Speaker 1: you have no idea that someone want to show you
Speaker 1: here again, James Pilcher, We saw it in how they
Speaker 1: circled around with Billy, and we saw the same kind
Speaker 1: of approach. They obviously had the shoe print stuff. They
Speaker 1: obviously had the receipt, they obviously had the shell casings.
Speaker 1: It takes them two to three hours to get to
Speaker 1: the point where they're presenting that in front of them.
Speaker 1: The investigator pulls out a document and places it in
Speaker 1: front of Angelo Agner. They are okay, hey, yeah, I remember,
Speaker 1: you don't remember that. The document appears to be a
Speaker 1: custody agreement, saying that in the event of Hannah May
Speaker 1: Rodin's death, that custody of her daughter would go to
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner. It appears to have Hannah's signature on the forum.
Speaker 1: The detectives tell Angela they found it in her trailer.
Speaker 1: This is what we're curious about them, and it was
Speaker 1: do you know who that is? Your mom? So your
Speaker 1: mom will arise us, but you didn't know about it.
Speaker 1: I don't remember it. Okay, here again, Stephanie and Jeff.
Speaker 1: This is unbelievable to be hearing for the first time.
Speaker 1: She's speaking so casually, and she's talking so cavalierly about
Speaker 1: her relationship with the road Ins and Billy's relationship with
Speaker 1: Hannah May, and it all sounds kind of cozy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We covered in season one of the podcast when Angela
Speaker 1: Wagner made that public Facebook post right after the murder's calling.
Speaker 1: Hannah May wrote in a daughter to her hoping they
Speaker 1: catch the monsters who did this, And this interview was
Speaker 1: like that post on steroids. How do you not crack
Speaker 1: under the pressure. My biggest takeaway from these recordings is
Speaker 1: that the Wagner family, at least Angela in this instance,
Speaker 1: really thought they could ounce our police. The document was
Speaker 1: notarized by Angela's mother, Rita Newcome. The agents continue to
Speaker 1: press Angela on the forged custody agreement that they found
Speaker 1: in her trailer. But when just trying to figure out this,
Speaker 1: this is really interesting to me. It printed out three
Speaker 1: three weeks before the work and you said you yeah, ok, yeah,
Speaker 1: they did have those documents and they were able to
Speaker 1: clearly show hey, they're signed here, but they were clearly
Speaker 1: printed out here on this day from this website. Blank,
Speaker 1: How do you explain that there was printed out a
Speaker 1: week before the murders and yet they got a date
Speaker 1: two years before? How do you how do you explain this?
Speaker 1: So I can't remember I didn't do it. The agents
Speaker 1: ask if Jake Billy or George Wagner could have done
Speaker 1: the murders. So I'm asking you, maybe you think that
Speaker 1: my son did it, or am I anybody and your family?
Speaker 1: I'm asking you, I'm okay, can you tell me definitively yes?
Speaker 1: I can. How you definitively know? Because one of my
Speaker 1: son would knew that. I said he had nothing against
Speaker 1: a can of handsome and even though him and Hannah
Speaker 1: Brook it wasn't enough for that. Agents show Angela Wagner
Speaker 1: photos of foot impressions made in blood founded the crime scene.
Speaker 1: So what we have with time wise, they have a
Speaker 1: database like we dods. Okay, And what we can do
Speaker 1: is we can take any shoe tread in the world
Speaker 1: and I identify the manufacturer in the size. Angela A.
Speaker 1: Wagner is then showed a pair of shoes. I don't
Speaker 1: ever remember buyous for any reason. Remember seeing those? I know?
Speaker 1: I know, No, I don't seen. No, Dad have some
Speaker 1: of them. But the agents then show Angela a receipt.
Speaker 1: We have a receipt for those shoes purchased by you. Okay.
Speaker 1: I did presare them. I got them, but I don't.
Speaker 1: They are I don't mean shoes, so they wouldn't wear them.
Speaker 1: But they wouldn't have used them, one of those because
Speaker 1: I threw them away. But what them two weeks before? Yes,
Speaker 1: I purchased them. That I am telling you. They didn't
Speaker 1: like them. They wouldn't wear them. You know, they wanted
Speaker 1: a pair of shoes. They always wear boots. Hook you do.
Speaker 1: I bought them and they didn't. I don't know about that.
Speaker 1: The agents show Angela out of her coming out of
Speaker 1: Walmart the day she purchased the shoes. It was caught
Speaker 1: on security cameras in the car. Did you go to
Speaker 1: did you go with the kids? I mean you look
Speaker 1: alone in that picture when you went to Walmart to
Speaker 1: buy that stuff back in April two thousand and sixteen. Okay,
Speaker 1: you're alone, but I don't know that you're alone getting
Speaker 1: back in the car. You're not. No, I was not
Speaker 1: the one. Who are you with? Yeah? I know the
Speaker 1: kids was given sleeping weird than what we would have
Speaker 1: been in the car. Didn't even that. I think I
Speaker 1: think they were all in the car that I can
Speaker 1: remember that one. Okay, two weeks before the homicide, you
Speaker 1: purchased two pairs of shoes which identically match bloody Foot
Speaker 1: Prince in a crying scene. Okay, that's another court from
Speaker 1: the shoe confirming to match the tread. The data is
Speaker 1: the porn up with the shoe to verify the match.
Speaker 1: This is a lab work from the casing agents. Present
Speaker 1: another lab report to Angelo Agner. I'm dentical match. There
Speaker 1: were casings recovered from several of the crime scenes. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: various calibers. Yeah, okay, these identically match the show casings
Speaker 1: in your grove away. Okay, I wanted twos from the
Speaker 1: same god they killed. There's no way Angel exa identical match.
Speaker 1: There's no way that they were. There's no way. We
Speaker 1: have everyone in our ballistics lab, every expert, every fire
Speaker 1: experts review and confirmed there is an identical match. You
Speaker 1: do know we're not the only ones that shot guns.
Speaker 1: Other has right, Yeah, they're all people down. Over the
Speaker 1: times family've been know, there's been several people down angels
Speaker 1: or a definitive match blueprint, And I was stand what
Speaker 1: you're saying on that. It's a blueprint. When I fire.
Speaker 1: When I fire my weather my issue gun and it
Speaker 1: ejects around, okay, and then I use it somewhere else,
Speaker 1: that's an identical matach James Pilcher. One thing that strikes
Speaker 1: me in these interviews, in this tape with Angela is
Speaker 1: how her demeanor changes the minute they show her the
Speaker 1: stuff about the shoes, the bullets, the shell casings, all
Speaker 1: of that. She han't an answer for it, but you
Speaker 1: can almost see based on her voice change and everything else,
Speaker 1: and how she starts to be hammering and pawing and
Speaker 1: hemming and all of that the minute they present that,
Speaker 1: how it her demeanor changes. She communally gets defenses sell
Speaker 1: a huge, huge moment there. Joseph Scott Morgan. They've lived
Speaker 1: in a bubble, it's very gets protected from everything else
Speaker 1: from outside the world. Suddenly you know that bubble is
Speaker 1: no longer existent. You understand that somebody has penetrated, and
Speaker 1: somebody's penetrated that you don't have any control over them,
Speaker 1: and you've been able to control all these other people
Speaker 1: within this environment, and maybe for the first time, fear
Speaker 1: sets him. At that moment, you think you've got all
Speaker 1: the basis covered. You know, you're running off the wal
Speaker 1: Mart by shoes. You're just you're doing all this and
Speaker 1: you're trying to work your logistical magic here, and suddenly
Speaker 1: somebody's penetrated, and suddenly you realize there's actually somebody that's
Speaker 1: smarter than you that's in the run. But I love
Speaker 1: the truth from you. Okay, did something happen? No, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm aware. I've not even had you say you're ten
Speaker 1: minutes ago. You're definitively sure. I am. There's there's too
Speaker 1: much definitive over all that we have casings that we use,
Speaker 1: we have the same it will use it to pricy,
Speaker 1: it will shot at your house. We have shoes. I
Speaker 1: guess the bottom line is we have all this. You
Speaker 1: can understand how this appears yes, I see you, and
Speaker 1: this is the if you're gonna have any chance to
Speaker 1: talk with us about what happened, what knowledge you have
Speaker 1: it's now Angelia, and not being a hundred percent, I
Speaker 1: can tell by the way you're talking. Okay, Well, I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm gonna show I'm just gonna stop. Well, I
Speaker 1: don't no, I'm just I'm just gonna stop right here
Speaker 1: and do you I can give that turn. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do because I don't know. I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: say no more. Agents stop the interview and the recording.
Speaker 1: Here's James Pilcher, followed by Joseph Scott Morgan. I mean
Speaker 1: you could see it. Right as soon as they started
Speaker 1: presenting her the heart evidence, she clammed up. She's like,
Speaker 1: I need a lawyer. Suddenly, all of that planning that
Speaker 1: she's done to purchasing the controlling of everybody, suddenly that's
Speaker 1: becoming unraveled. She knows she at least has enough of
Speaker 1: a survival instinct about her at that point in time.
Speaker 1: She knows that she needs to reach out for counsel,
Speaker 1: and I mean quick, because the thing is spinning in
Speaker 1: a flat spin and it's it's gonna turn out poorly forward.
Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another break. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher,
Speaker 1: and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. Back in
Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us
Speaker 1: dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke
Speaker 1: several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish.
Speaker 1: He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't,
Speaker 1: to the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything,
Speaker 1: but only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back.
Speaker 1: I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed
Speaker 1: to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 1: If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. I will always hound you and
Speaker 1: haunt you. You can listen to The girl Friends on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello,
Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell here, host of Revisionist History, a show about
Speaker 1: the overlooked and the misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere
Speaker 1: else like our ongoing obsessive campaign to blow up the
Speaker 1: world's most focus college ranking system. Why not just throw
Speaker 1: in a few extra zeros or witness me after years
Speaker 1: of fancy public speaking learning that I kind of have
Speaker 1: to start over. The tone that you had throughout the
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Speaker 1: listen to revisionist history on the iHeart radio app, Apple
Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts.
Speaker 1: Whitney Hill is going on in here. Everyone has their limits.
Speaker 1: I'd never confronted a situation like this. I just thought
Speaker 1: it was just a really terrible immoral thing. Aligne they
Speaker 1: won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no,
Speaker 1: we're killing people. You may never have to face that
Speaker 1: decision when you find yourself at that line ricin and
Speaker 1: somebody needs to just for once, give everybody the whole
Speaker 1: truth like this is evil and the only person who
Speaker 1: can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going
Speaker 1: to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers.
Speaker 1: If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to
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Speaker 1: I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's
Speaker 1: Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of
Speaker 1: The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning
Speaker 1: first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to
Speaker 1: touch incredible guests about important things people like me have
Speaker 1: been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing as evil.
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Speaker 1: After hearing the interview with Angelo Wagner and its entirety,
Speaker 1: John Parker with the Defense, gets up for cross examination.
Speaker 1: He asks Agent Commasford about Angelo Wagner's home in Bethel Hill,
Speaker 1: where she lived with her family for a time. Were
Speaker 1: you aware that she was involved as a fraudulent arsons
Speaker 1: among them? I recall some limited information about their being arson,
Speaker 1: he claims. Did you know that one of the houses
Speaker 1: that burned down that she had built had a marijuana
Speaker 1: grow room in the basement in her direction? I don't
Speaker 1: know that I was aware of that at buffal Hell,
Speaker 1: Now all right, were you aware of her dog breeding
Speaker 1: business that she fraudently represented the dogs with pure bread
Speaker 1: when they were not you were not aware. No, I
Speaker 1: was not aware of that. Now, and Angela told you
Speaker 1: that Jake was devastated at the news of Hannah's death, Yes,
Speaker 1: she did say that, and you later learned that Jake
Speaker 1: is actually one of the shot hand and killed her.
Speaker 1: Fair to say, Angela has been very deceitful about many things.
Speaker 1: I would say that she's been deceitful about things. Yes.
Speaker 1: At that point, you know, the defense goes to the
Speaker 1: BCI agent who conducted the interview, asking her, Hey, did
Speaker 1: you ask her about the dog breeding business? Did you
Speaker 1: ask her about the arsons? Did you ask about the
Speaker 1: marijuana business? They said, no, we were trying to solve
Speaker 1: the murder, but they were I think trying to sow
Speaker 1: seeds of doubt about the effectiveness of the investigation, or
Speaker 1: at least the effectiveness of the questions that they asked.
Speaker 1: She asks agent Commisford if any members of the Wagner
Speaker 1: family had concerns about the Rodents having custody of the
Speaker 1: child that Jake and Hannah shared. My understanding is there
Speaker 1: were concerns on the part of the Wagner family that
Speaker 1: would become under the custody of the Rodent family. So
Speaker 1: did you know which of the Wagners had those concerns,
Speaker 1: specifically Angela, Jake, George, and Billy. They're building to this
Speaker 1: conspiracy that it wasn't just a couple of people, that
Speaker 1: was the entire family. And this family is such that
Speaker 1: if one person knows it, all four of them know it.
Speaker 1: So they're still building to this. They're driving to Alaska,
Speaker 1: six of them with two little kids in one car,
Speaker 1: across country, thousands of miles together. How would they be
Speaker 1: able to be that close and share their finances and
Speaker 1: all of that and yet not know about killing eight
Speaker 1: people and planning to kill eight people and building the
Speaker 1: guns to kill eight people and all of that. Special
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa redirects. You were asked it appeared that
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner was alone and she was in the store
Speaker 1: purchasing those shoes. And your response was, what as my
Speaker 1: understanding inside the store that she was alone? Yes, when
Speaker 1: she was outside of the store alone and when you
Speaker 1: based out video evidence specifically she got into the back
Speaker 1: of that vehicle, yes, correct, So who was with Angela
Speaker 1: Wagner when she bought the shoes at Walmart? More on
Speaker 1: that next time for more information on the case and
Speaker 1: relevant photos. Follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Speaker 1: Chris Cacaro, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong.
Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ti Music by Jared Aston.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Katie Studios. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm
Speaker 1: hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it's time to find a husband.
Speaker 1: There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be
Speaker 1: eligible bachelor's. One of them was a spot Barrenmount. On paper,
Speaker 1: he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wackop.
Speaker 1: He chokeded to the point she went unconscious. I would
Speaker 1: call him and I would say, I know you killed
Speaker 1: my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: I'm will daily for years. I've been on the road
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