WEBVTT - The Matriarch Speaks 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.240 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 He just walked around shot all the black people. The 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.440 cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 out how to go on and how to compete. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.840 wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.640 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.200 it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.560 a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.040 to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.239 Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.080 this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.560 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.080 you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:07.440 Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.479 get your podcasts. This is the story of a man 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.960 who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.319 that's a name you don't forget. He was a visionary 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.399 who built a fortune as a black man during Jim 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:25.800 Crow during the Depression, but today not many people know 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.920 about him. The race sort of wiped out, and I 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:33.000 wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.720 Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:42.000 get your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts and Nomadic Engine, the 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:46.840 acclaimed dramatic thriller returns after Shock season two. He's like 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.400 a ghost. We had an agreement to keep each other's secret. 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:53.160 None of you were making decisions to keep the rest 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:57.960 of us safe, which leaves me I'm asking for your forgiveness. 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:03.280 After Shock season two, starring Sarahween, Kelly's David Harbor and 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.960 Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Listened to Aftershock on the iHeartRadio app, 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:13.079 Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It was 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:15.240 perhaps the first time George White to the fourth heard 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.080 his mother's voice in the four years since the family 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:27.960 was arrested. And you think that my funded yes, how 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:33.040 you editively? No? I want the truth from you, Okay, 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.760 did something happen? You can see her attempting to fool 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:41.280 you know, everyone involved in this. Let's face it, We've 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:45.240 got eight dead bodies, four separate locations. How in the 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:54.239 world do you think that you can escape that this 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:58.760 is the Pike and massacre. Returned to Pike County season four, 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:05.280 episode four teen, the matriarch speaks. It's important to note 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.120 that George Wagner the fourth has pleaded not guilty and 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:12.440 has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.640 whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:19.400 all charges. In the previous episode, we heard about how 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:22.280 law enforcement came to view the Wagners as suspects and 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:27.440 the murders of the Rodin, Manly and Gilly families. Before 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:31.519 it was suspicion and things weren't adding up. Lead investigator 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.560 Ryan Schierer says that changed about a year after the 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:38.680 homicides when BCI agents matched spent shell casings at the 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:42.640 Wagner's home in Peebles. Based on that, ballistics evidence agents 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:45.680 used search warrants to take deep dives into mobile devices 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.680 used by George Wagner, who's on trial for murder his 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:52.120 brother Jake, and their parents Billy and Angela Wagner. After 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:56.760 originally preparing to intercept the Wagners in North Dakota, investigators 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.640 had to scramble to intercept the family at another Canadian 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.680 border entry point. The Wagners were house hunting in Alaska. 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:07.360 As they returned, agents intercepted them at the Canadian border 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.800 a year after the murders. Now Wagner is accused of 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.720 helping kill eight members of the Rodent and Gillie families. 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.240 Investigators detained the Wagners and placed each member of the 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.760 family in a separate room. At this time, I believe 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.040 you indicated that you were going to interview them as 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:27.279 suspects instead of your prior contacts with them. Correct The 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.320 gigs help They knew we were looking at them. While 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.680 the Wagners were in custody, agencies to laptop and an 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:38.280 iPad from their vehicle. Law enforcement also placed listening devices 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.680 in the Wagner's SUV and bug their phones. Upon cross examination, 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.279 John Parker from the defense brings up the quality of 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.080 the audio obtained from the bug the agents placed in 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.839 the Wagner's vehicle. There's really nothing useful that came from 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:55.800 those listening devices on the vehicles at Paris. I did 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:58.560 not work as well as we hoped. Correct, right, There 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.320 was nothing useful data correct, The quality of the audio 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:07.039 was less than desirable. There was nothing useful game correct. 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:13.480 Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati, now with 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.400 Local twelve. And as it turns out, that was kind 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:20.400 of a snap foo too because the road noise drowned 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.400 out anything they could hear. They really didn't get really 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.120 much of anything out of that except you know, when 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.320 everybody came out. They came out one at a time 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:32.160 and they sat there and they didn't talk about anything. Normally, 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:34.720 if you're innocent and you're pulled over and all of 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.000 a sudden you get out of a four out or interview, 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:39.080 you're going to be asking your family members what the 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.760 heck is going on. None of that. Nothing was hurt 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.680 like that on those recordings. Because of the rush to 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.039 set up in Montana as opposed to North Dakota, agents 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:51.440 weren't able to videotape the interviews since the bug in 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:54.600 the vehicle did not pick up usable audio. The audio 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.640 recordings of the interviews at the Canadian border, where all 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:01.400 the investigators had you interviewed Jake. Is that correct, Yes, 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.640 myself and special agent Maltered. Okay, and do you recall 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.760 how long that interview loves, approximately four to six hours. 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:13.880 Maybe it's a long yes, And Judge, we would ask 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:16.320 that we'd be allowed to play Jay Zone to At 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.839 this point, the prosecution of Jack's and Judge Dering instructs 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.560 the jury to leave the room for a fifteen minute recess. 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.880 Judge Jarring asked for the prosecution and defense to present 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:29.080 their arguments on whether Jake's taped interviews should be played 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:32.599 for the court. Just the plane reading of evidence, Rule 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.440 eight O one says that the co conspiracydent is attributed 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:38.920 to the defendant. There's a lot of talk of rule 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:40.840 eight to one, but the gist of it is that 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:45.880 the defense cannot introduces evidence another co conspirator's testimony during 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.080 cross only the state is allowed to do that. That's 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:52.000 the whole nature of the co conspiracy. So they all 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:55.280 denied it, right, that was part of the conspiracy. So 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.680 he does not get to put it now. Given when 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.480 Jay testifies, he certainly can use this to cross examine 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.640 him as a hiring consistent statement. At that point, John 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.880 Parker argues that Jake's testimony is part of the defense's 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:19.880 constitutional right to present a complete defense. The costory of 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.440 shape is covered in ups. We shouldn't have to we 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:32.160 if they call, which it comes into this officer in 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:38.360 pro When it's time to make a ruling, Judge Steering 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.200 decides he needs to hear more argument. I'm not going 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.240 to decide ultimately today whether we're going to be able 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.400 to play that tape in the defense side of the case. 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:51.680 Outside that tomorrow morning, after I've heard arguments here, you 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.160 should be ready about eight forty five to go on 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.560 record and argue that issue, and then I'll make that decis. 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.640 They let the jury back into the courtroom and Judge 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:03.760 Steering addresses the court. Lady and gentlemen the court. We're 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:07.480 going to have an early day close today. The court 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.040 has some things to do that do not involve the 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.080 jury during closes the day early to give the defense 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:17.160 and prosecution time to prepare for tomorrow's hearing. Here again, 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.239 James Pilcher. So I pretty much shut down the trial 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.760 for the afternoon, and actually the judge held it under 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.760 advise me and said I'll rule on it tomorrow. So 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.400 we're all on pins and needles the next day as 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:31.560 to whether or not we're gonna have to sit through 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:34.880 six hours of listening to Ryan and Jake talk to 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:39.000 each other. News media reports the latest development in the 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:42.959 trial the defense trying to play Jake Wagner's first interrogation 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.559 tape today, but the prosecution said, wait, you can't do that. 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.080 We have to enter that as evidence first, And the 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.160 judge said, show up here tomorrow morning and prepare to 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:55.079 argue about it and he'll make a decision then. So 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.600 that brings us to tomorrow. Will jurors here Jake Wagner's 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:02.680 five hour interrogation tape, Will they hear Angela Wagner's two 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:06.320 hour interrogation tape? And how will George the man on 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.360 trial come up in those tapes? But the next morning, 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:12.480 it's not Jake's interview that makes news. George Wagner the 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:18.280 Fourth providing an explosive audio recording of his mom, Angela's 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:22.360 interrogation by BCI agents. It was perhaps the first time 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:24.520 George whiten To the fourth heard his mother's voice in 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:30.600 the four years since the family was arrested. Before the 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:33.520 jury has brought in judge during Here's arguments about whether 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.480 to allow in the audio recording of Jake's interview from 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:40.200 when the Wagners were intercepted at the Canadian border. Prosecutor 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.640 Angie Kaneppa lays out her reasons for the objection. Jay 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:47.640 made a complete denial. There was nothing that was taken 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:54.120 from that interview by especially that informed next investigative steps. 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.040 So I guess really one question would be for what 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:02.040 purposes this being requested to be? Here's John Parker with 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:12.040 the defense, because Jay has angel epispiracy. They are prospirators, 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:19.679 all right, series and even though the crime I didn't 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:25.800 even get it done, this recording will reflect Jayce backards 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:31.800 to cover us. Finally, Judge Darring makes a ruling, well, 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.160 I think I understand the arguments evolved, but I'm going 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:36.600 to deny the request of defense to play the tape 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:40.439 at this time. Here again, James Pilcher. One of the 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:45.240 interesting things about this day was the prosecution specifically chooses 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.480 not to play the tape of the recording they made 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.080 with George, and there were some questions, Okay, why aren't 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.280 they playing this to show what he was saying at 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.440 the time. As for the strategy of this, we think 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.480 possibly they're not playing it. So if and when George 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:03.599 decides to take the stand, he can't tailor his testimony 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:05.880 to what he said at the border. And it's actually 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.840 part of this argument about Jake as well, Jake's recording, 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:13.679 and they say no, that allows him to testify on 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.400 his own behalf without taking the sand. So that's where 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.440 that argument comes up, and it turns into another legal 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:23.840 battle and it's won. The prosecution wins with Jake's interview 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.440 ruled as inadmissible. At this point in the trial, the 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:30.200 prosecution calls up their next witness. He's raisu're right, an, 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.880 can you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:34.680 about to give show me the truth, the whole truths? 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:36.760 I nothing about the truths as you shall answer and 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:41.640 to God. BCI Agent Jennifer Comasford has six years experience 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.800 with the Special Investigations Unit in Ohio BCI. She wears 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.040 a polka dot shirt and a blazer with straight brown 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.280 hair that falls to her shoulders. She has relaxed on 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.800 the stand. Agent Commasford was one of the agents present 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:58.000 for the searches of the Wagner's farm and trailers. She 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.319 was also on the team of agents that to view 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.400 the Wagner's at the Canadian border. You treated it like 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.959 a custodio interview. Tell us what that means. We treated 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.360 it as a custido interview and that we mirandized Angela 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.680 Wagner because we treat it as though she was in custody, 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:15.800 not free to leave, and that she was being interrogated. 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.240 So we read her her miranda rights. You're on her 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:22.320 this time. I would request to play the recording of 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:28.680 Special Agent Comsford's interview with Angela Wagner at the Montana border. 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.600 The prosecution cues up the tape of Angela's interview and 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.160 begins playing it for the jury. The defendant, George Wagner, 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.160 stares down at his feet. But the reason why here 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:43.320 it was obviously okay, with all that, all that, nobody's 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.840 going down in Pute County, and that's the reason we 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.959 came up here to get away from all that. Okay, okay, 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.000 tracing the media is all over itself. Have you been 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.040 following any of that? Of course, yes, you know, we 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.120 just want to get away from down there and talk 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:01.280 to out Sorry to stale own type family. I think 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.040 it would be best for everybody I have some personal 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:08.079 questions for you though the last Oh we love it 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:15.319 here again, James Pilcher. This recording of Angela is really significant. 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.120 First of all, the first time we heard her voice 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.400 in the courtroom. But second of all, it gives us 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:22.640 a sense of their state of mind as they're becoming 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.760 aware that they're being suspects, are being treated as suspects. 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:30.120 Agent Coomasford an agent Rick Ward ask about Angela Wagner's 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:35.160 relationship with the Rodent family. Relationship I had the rigs 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.000 was to Hannah. Hannah and my son Jake, we're together 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:43.840 for five years? Well yeah, okay, um did an I'm 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.959 getting married. Yes, he had a waiting planned, everything was 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.120 planned out for that August that she had everything organized, 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:57.400 everything ready, and I love that she wouldn't break And 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:03.640 she did break and s well it was hurt. Of course, 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.360 she was in love with his life. I mean, my 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.480 son doesn't take anything like like you know why you 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:14.760 want them? You know what I don't know. I know 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.760 that Hannah was really young when her Jake got together. 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:23.040 What's the difference between the two. Anna was thirteen, my 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:28.680 son was seventeen, sixteen and a halfs On investigators ask 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:33.160 Angela about her relationship with Hanname Rodin. So, your relationship 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.240 with with Hannah was good. I thought she was a 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.960 school brack. But I thought she was a school rap 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.000 because she really was. I mean, no, that's that she was. 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.120 Your dad let her getting away every im she would 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.120 give me looks and she would snarl, and she would 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:49.680 tell Jacob was being mean. And you know, but that's 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:58.320 typical teenagers, all typical. Sometimes mother was and ye. The 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.760 agents bring the conversation back to Jake's reaction to Hannah 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:07.040 Rodin dating other people. So when when Hannah gets pregnant 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:13.480 with the other thing, Yeah, how did number one with 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:19.600 the other boyfriend or boyfriends? And Jake? Well one, Jake, 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:24.280 they would talk to the other boyfriends. Never actually, Jake, 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.040 don't have you ever talked to Charlie Woods Whenever they 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:34.520 were determined who The paternity test showed that Charlie Gilly 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.800 and not Jake Wagner, was the father of Hannah's second baby. 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:41.080 The agents ask if Angela was upset about Hannah Ma 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.920 getting pregnant by another man who was not Jake, And 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.120 even she told me she had texted me when she 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:50.400 texted me about being pregnant. She was afraid I would 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:54.720 be upset. You're pregnant. I was upset though, I was 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:59.880 upset when she loved Jake. Yeah. Here's forensic medical examiner 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:04.640 Joseph Scott Morgan. One striking things about this is they 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:09.240 begin to talk about the fact that Hannah had kind 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.200 of separated herself away from the rest of the family, 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.560 had gone out and gotten pregnant by another guy. And 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:18.200 I really wonder, you know, she says that that didn't 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.760 necessarily upset her. Does anybody actually believe that, you know, 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:25.200 because I think that it would have been Angela's desire 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:29.320 to continue to have controlled, you know, Hannah. You know, 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.920 because if you have control over Hannah, you have control 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.240 over the child that she had with Jake. BCI agent 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:40.120 record as Angela about Billy Wagner's relationship with Hannah man 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:44.040 rowdin with Hannah. Oh God, he loved that girl. He 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:48.080 caught her his breath, you know, even I mean, that's 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.160 why always hold Chris, I said, Chris, even if they 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.800 break up, She's still going to be my daughter. Sorry, 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:59.760 you're going to have to share. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. Well, 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:05.200 we know steph from interviewing close Wagner family friends, that 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.920 they were aware that they were kind of under the 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.520 lens of law enforcement, and that they were kind of 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:16.320 planning for potentially being interrogated or talked to. And so 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.040 when we hear these recordings, it's so interesting and fascinating. Me. 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.600 I mean, I don't think this is so off the conflict. 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:24.199 I think they had a little bit of a script 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.240 in their heads. You're right. But again, even if they 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.280 have a script and they have a plan, it's real 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:34.720 different when you're separated for the first time in being 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:39.480 asked and questioned by authorities. This is the moment. This, 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.680 by all accounts, is the moment where authorities collected the 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:49.000 most data that would be later used against them. We're 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:53.800 going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.320 I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.800 girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:06.399 a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:12.760 He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:17.359 he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:22.560 He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious, 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:27.080 Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:31.119 time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.080 girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.440 pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.280 I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:41.560 I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.440 would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.480 always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:52.119 the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.840 you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm Glabo here, host 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.960 of Revisionist History, a show about the overlooked and the 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:04.440 misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else. Like our ongoing 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.960 obsessive campaign to blow up the world's most focus college 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.480 ranking system. Why not just throw in a few extra 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:16.919 zeros or witness me after years of fancy public speaking, 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.399 learning that I kind of have to start over. The 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:23.439 tone that you had throughout the debate was very similar 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:25.440 to some of the students that I do work with, 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:28.080 and that's what I teach them not to do. We're 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:31.000 making more revisionist history for you this year than ever, 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:37.200 from places all across this great country, emergency rooms, huge theaters, 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:41.239 small towns, and shooting righteous and you want to put 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.160 your thumb up like the US Are you gonna pull 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.800 the trigger with this finger here? Okay? Listen to Revisionist 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.800 History on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:57.119 you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney Hill is 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:01.080 going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:02.960 a situation like this. I just thought it was just 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.320 a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:10.080 I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.280 You may never have to face that decision when you 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:17.760 find yourself at that line. It's n's ricin and somebody 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.760 needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth, 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:25.359 Like this is evil and the only person who can 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.680 sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:34.320 sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:36.760 If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.960 speak out disgrace to our gun. Evil should be prosecuted. 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:46.240 When power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense. 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:51.080 I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, 0:20:51.320 --> 0:21:00.960 Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Names Laverne Cox. 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:05.119 I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.119 Cox Show. You may remember my award winning first season. 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.600 I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:15.840 guests about important things. People like me have been screaming 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.080 for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:20.639 they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. They 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:23.520 will take things away. And I can only hope that 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.359 Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment or you and 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:28.960 I both know what it took to just get through 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:31.080 the day in New York City and get home in 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.159 one piece. And so the fact that we're here and 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:38.240 what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.440 It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. The 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:43.960 only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.480 we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.240 and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Laverne Cox 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:54.159 Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you 0:21:54.280 --> 0:22:06.120 get your podcast be sure to subscribe and share. Agents 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:08.560 ask ev Angela was ever in Chris rod and Seniors 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:17.120 trailer Trailer Chris Chris one time one time? Oh my gosh, 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:25.080 I don't well listen limits four four years ago. I 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:28.399 don't like sitting on the couch and has this much 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:31.880 dog care one stuff. It's his dogs. Uh over great, 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:35.160 you know I mean but no, I don't like sitting dogs. 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:37.720 Dogs at least I mean friendly. You don't have to 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:41.359 worry about anything like that. No, you you have to. Okay, 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:46.200 let's be this way. Uh, if he's there, you're okay. Okay. 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:50.280 Chance his fit bull, big, love you dog, sweet as 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:57.200 he can bag, Okay, Jake. Jake's got to get several 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:02.639 times by chance, didn't off. She was not particularly a 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:05.919 fan of the Rodents. Sounds like I thought they were 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:09.479 too messy, thought, you know, she never went over Christine 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:11.520 or she went over once for the Fourth of July 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:13.560 party and it was too smoky and there was too 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:16.560 much dog air everywhere. Agents then bring it back to 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:21.840 the murders. So when this occurs, what were your initial thoughts? 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:26.119 What was horrified? I had just been to my house 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:31.280 just days before the murders. Angela Wagner says that Hanname 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:33.720 Rodin came by to show her new baby to Jake 0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:41.520 George and Angela, Okay, was everything cool? Yeah? She was 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:44.479 making fun of Jake because he had tried to dye 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:46.320 his hair a little darker brown and it turned out 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:50.280 more black. And she was making fun of baby, you know, 0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:53.119 about his hair and stuff, and that we were I mean, 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:56.440 everything was fine. Investigators bring the interview back to the 0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:59.520 day after the murders. How did you first find out 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:03.840 the news, like in the morning or you know what, 0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:05.719 I don't know it was. It was the morning. How 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:11.120 an open watching the news? And were you guys together? Yeah, 0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:14.760 Angela tells the agents she was with Billy at the 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:17.480 Peterson Road residence when she heard the news about the 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:25.959 Rodents being murdered. What was Jake's response when crying when 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:29.840 he heard the new you guys all together? He was outsight. 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:33.439 Agents ask Angela why she thinks the trailers on her 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:36.520 farm were searched by authorities. Okay, this is the part 0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:40.399 that we gave him everything they needed and then you know, 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:42.959 we get halfway to the road and they're down are 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:46.120 searching the farm and then I'm sorry, what they get 0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:50.479 to our stuff and our framers is ridiculous. All they 0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:54.240 had done saying, hey, we want to search. I'd opened 0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:56.920 the door, you know, search. I don't love in the hip. 0:24:57.280 --> 0:24:59.720 Angela Wagner is then asked if there was a written 0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:03.600 cus see agreement between Jake and Annime Rodin. Now, was 0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:06.840 there any type of living will or anything like if 0:25:07.000 --> 0:25:10.320 something were to happen, And this is what we're you know, 0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:18.680 you have no idea that someone want to show you 0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:24.479 here again, James Pilcher, We saw it in how they 0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:27.359 circled around with Billy, and we saw the same kind 0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:31.879 of approach. They obviously had the shoe print stuff. They 0:25:31.920 --> 0:25:34.840 obviously had the receipt, they obviously had the shell casings. 0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:37.399