WEBVTT - TV Remotes

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production

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<v Speaker 1>of iHeartRadio. Hello Owen, Welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly

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<v Speaker 1>Frye and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Uh. This is another

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<v Speaker 1>one of those episodes that was intended to be an assortment,

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<v Speaker 1>a collection of things, and then it became about just

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<v Speaker 1>one of those things. Yeah. I was planning to write

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<v Speaker 1>about three or maybe four very mundane things that we

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<v Speaker 1>use every day in our lives and their origins. But

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<v Speaker 1>then when I got to the story of the TV

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<v Speaker 1>remote control, I discovered there was a drama. Uh. In

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<v Speaker 1>some ways, it's a one sided drama, but we'll talk

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<v Speaker 1>about it. This is one that's really relatable, I think

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<v Speaker 1>probably for anyone that has worked for a big company

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<v Speaker 1>and has felt like their contributions are lauded one moment

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<v Speaker 1>and forgotten the next. I think a lot of us

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<v Speaker 1>can relate to that. But it is also a story

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<v Speaker 1>about how two very different people perceive their work in

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<v Speaker 1>the same space, and how, in some cases that work

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<v Speaker 1>is perceived differently over time by those around them and

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<v Speaker 1>even their employer. The initial time period where a TV

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<v Speaker 1>remote control was being developed was actually pretty short. We

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<v Speaker 1>recently talked about spray paint and how that had multiple

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<v Speaker 1>options of people that get credited as the person that

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<v Speaker 1>are over literal decades. But this is like within eighteen months,

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<v Speaker 1>two people emerged, each of whom sometimes are called the

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<v Speaker 1>father of the remote control and one of those versions

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<v Speaker 1>that they created quickly supplanted the other. So we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about those very early years and the way

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<v Speaker 1>that two inventors who were pivotal to the story have

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<v Speaker 1>been talked about in different ways by the company that

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<v Speaker 1>they both worked for. So we're starting a little earlier

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<v Speaker 1>than that, which is that in eighteen ninety eight, Nikola

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<v Speaker 1>Tesla received a patent for a remote control device. His

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<v Speaker 1>patent called this method of and apparatus for controlling mechanism

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<v Speaker 1>of moving vessels or vehicles. This invention was for quote,

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<v Speaker 1>controlling from a distance the operation of the propelling engines,

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<v Speaker 1>the steering apparatus and other mechanism carried by moving bodies

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<v Speaker 1>or floating vessels, of which the following is a specification

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<v Speaker 1>reference being had to the drawings accompanying and forming part

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<v Speaker 1>of the same That remote is not specifically germane to

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<v Speaker 1>the technology that we're talking about today, but it's illustrative

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<v Speaker 1>of the ways that people were thinking about using remote

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<v Speaker 1>controls well before televisions were even invented. We talked about

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<v Speaker 1>TV's invention in our twenty thirteen episode on Filot Farnsworth,

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<v Speaker 1>So jumping ahead from that moment more than one hundred years.

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<v Speaker 1>A two thousand and six write up about Eugene Polly

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<v Speaker 1>in the Atlantic City newspaper The Press reads, quote, fifty

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<v Speaker 1>years ago, Polly invented the wireless remote. In return, he

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<v Speaker 1>got one thousand dollars and a lifetime of gnawing irritation

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<v Speaker 1>at being squeezed out of pop culture history. Now he's

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<v Speaker 1>trying to set the record straight. And in that article,

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<v Speaker 1>Polly told the paper quote, not only did I not

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<v Speaker 1>get credit for doing anything, I got a kick in

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<v Speaker 1>the rear. So I stumbled upon this and said, what

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<v Speaker 1>is the backstory here? Suggest that there was drama? M

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<v Speaker 1>Eugene Theodore Polly was born on November twenty ninth, nineteen fifteen,

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<v Speaker 1>in Chicago. His mother, Vera Wachowski, was from a wealthy family,

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<v Speaker 1>but his father was a bootlegger. When Eugene was born,

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<v Speaker 1>Vera's family had cut off most contact with her because

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<v Speaker 1>of her connection to Eugene's father, but his father did

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<v Speaker 1>not stay around either. The two of them were separated

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<v Speaker 1>when Eugene was still really young. This is often described

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<v Speaker 1>as his father abandoning Vera and Eugene. His father's first

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<v Speaker 1>name is really never mentioned in any accounts of Eugene's life,

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<v Speaker 1>and later Eugene started using his confirmation name of Joseph

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<v Speaker 1>as his middle name. Yeah. I don't know if Theodore

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<v Speaker 1>was perhaps tied to his father in any way. That's

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<v Speaker 1>sheer speculation on my part, but there is definitely an

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<v Speaker 1>unwillingness to include any of that kind of discussion in

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<v Speaker 1>any stories of his life. Finances were very, very tight,

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<v Speaker 1>but Vera and Eugene got by together. And Eugene was

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<v Speaker 1>very clearly a super smart kid. He just had a

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<v Speaker 1>mind for all things mechanical. And after high school he

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<v Speaker 1>attended City Colleges of Chicago and then he went on

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<v Speaker 1>to the Armor Institute to study engineering. The Armor Institute

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<v Speaker 1>is the Illinois Institute of Technology today. But Polly wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>able to finish his studies and he didn't get his

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<v Speaker 1>engineering degree. The depression was making life harder and harder,

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<v Speaker 1>and his mother just needed help keeping their life together financially,

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<v Speaker 1>so Eugene joined the workforce. In nineteen thirty five, twenty

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<v Speaker 1>year old Eugene got hired by Zenith Radio Corporation and

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<v Speaker 1>he started there as a parts clerk. He didn't stay

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<v Speaker 1>in the stock room, though, he was eventually able to

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<v Speaker 1>move into the company's engineering department, and then he kept

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<v Speaker 1>moving up from there. He became a product engineer and

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<v Speaker 1>eventually moved into management and the mechanical engineering group. Zena's founder,

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<v Speaker 1>another Eugene. That's Eugene McDonald, started pushing his engineers to

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<v Speaker 1>come up with something that would enable viewers to not

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<v Speaker 1>have to endure commercials. This was in nineteen fifty. Apparently McDonald,

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<v Speaker 1>who had the nickname the Commander by his employees, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>just hated commercials and he figured most other viewers did too.

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<v Speaker 1>That's usually how this is reported, and it sounds like

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a feel good story about a captain of

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<v Speaker 1>industry fighting for the interests of his consumers. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>a little more complicated than that. McDonald thought that ad

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<v Speaker 1>supported television was not going to last, and moreover, he

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<v Speaker 1>did not want it to last, and that was in

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<v Speaker 1>part because Zenith was developing an early pay per view

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<v Speaker 1>business model, which would have competed with ad supported programming

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<v Speaker 1>where viewers did not have to pay directly to watch things.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, his take on the potential of commercial driven

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<v Speaker 1>television proved wildly incorrect. There were radio remote controls of

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<v Speaker 1>various types going back to the nineteen twenties before the

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<v Speaker 1>rise of television, and they had evolved and improved significantly

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<v Speaker 1>over just a couple of decades, so it seemed like

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<v Speaker 1>there had to be a way to control a TV

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<v Speaker 1>with the remote too. There had already been an attempt

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<v Speaker 1>to control a TV remotely, but it was not really

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<v Speaker 1>all that helpful. That product was the Telezoom, which came

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<v Speaker 1>out in nineteen forty eight, and as that name suggests,

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<v Speaker 1>it let viewers zoom in on the picture. That was

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<v Speaker 1>the only thing that it did. I often zoom in

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<v Speaker 1>on pictures on my phone. I can see times you

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<v Speaker 1>might want to do that on TV. Not that many times.

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<v Speaker 1>It did not really take off. Yeah, it's tricky. I

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<v Speaker 1>have seen some explanations that suggest that the idea for

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<v Speaker 1>it was that TV's were so small at the time

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<v Speaker 1>that people would want to zoom in. But I'm like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's a moving picture, so like what you zoom

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<v Speaker 1>in on, yeah, may not be germane to the story.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a it's a moving picture. And the image quality

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<v Speaker 1>was also limited enough that it seems like zooming in

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<v Speaker 1>would quickly just be like blobs. Yeah, I could see why.

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<v Speaker 1>It was not a rousing success. But the first invention

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<v Speaker 1>that came out of the Zenith Engineering group to solve

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<v Speaker 1>this problem of being able to silence commercials with something

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<v Speaker 1>called a lazy Bones, which I love. This was a

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<v Speaker 1>very simple remote. It was intended really just to silence

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<v Speaker 1>the TV during commercials, and Zenith advertised it that way,

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<v Speaker 1>hoping that it would help to hamper the use of

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<v Speaker 1>commercials and kind of kneecap commercial television. After all, if

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<v Speaker 1>consumers didn't hear the ad messaging, what was the point.

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<v Speaker 1>The Lazybones advertising encouraged viewers quote television fans have fun.

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<v Speaker 1>Sit back in your chair, relax, keep Zeni's new Lazybone

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<v Speaker 1>remote control handy to change stations, Press lightly with your

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<v Speaker 1>thumb and presto, there's the program you want. But the

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<v Speaker 1>Lazy Bones was not a wireless device. It had a

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<v Speaker 1>cable that users had to connect to their television and

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<v Speaker 1>it could turn the set on or off, or change

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<v Speaker 1>the channels, and it also was really good at tripping people.

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<v Speaker 1>Eugene McDonald really thought they could do better. Additionally, almost

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<v Speaker 1>as soon as the Lazy Bones hit the market, other

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<v Speaker 1>electronics companies started to make their own versions. So McDonald

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<v Speaker 1>really wanted something that could outperform all of those imitators.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is where Eugene Polly's inventive mind came up

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<v Speaker 1>with a solution. We don't talk about that solution after

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<v Speaker 1>we pause for a sponsor break. In nineteen fifty five,

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<v Speaker 1>Eugene Polly developed a product that became the flash Mattic.

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<v Speaker 1>The flash Matic used a beam of light to point

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<v Speaker 1>at sensors in the corners of the television to change

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<v Speaker 1>channels or activate the TV's power. It looked like a

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<v Speaker 1>ray gun or even the kind of gun you might

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<v Speaker 1>use to control a garden hose in terms of its form,

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<v Speaker 1>and that form factor was not an accident. Polly later

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<v Speaker 1>said in an interview that he chose that design quote

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<v Speaker 1>so people could shoot out the commercial. Polly's invention also

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<v Speaker 1>came equipped with what would become one of the most

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<v Speaker 1>important features of all remote control devices going forward, a

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<v Speaker 1>mute function. The flash Mattic was patented in Eugene Polly's

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<v Speaker 1>name under the title control system. The patent application notes

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<v Speaker 1>that it's trying to solve the danger issue of a

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<v Speaker 1>tethered remote quote. In the past, many different remote control

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<v Speaker 1>arrangements have been proposed for both radio and television receivers,

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<v Speaker 1>some of which have been exploited commercially. Most of these

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<v Speaker 1>remote control systems require physical interconnection between a remote control

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<v Speaker 1>station and the receiver, usually by a conductive wire or

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<v Speaker 1>multiconductor cable. Although some of these systems have been relatively

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<v Speaker 1>convenient and effective in operation, they are always subject to

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<v Speaker 1>the principal disadvantage that the wire or cable linking the

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<v Speaker 1>remote control station to the rec receiver is not particularly

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<v Speaker 1>attractive in appearance and may often cause accidents when laid

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<v Speaker 1>across a portion of the floor where people must walk,

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<v Speaker 1>which seems like would be most setups right most of

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<v Speaker 1>the time, the space between where you sit and your

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<v Speaker 1>television is where you walk to sit and watch television. Well.

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<v Speaker 1>Another technology that was also working this way around this

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<v Speaker 1>time was hearing aids that were connected physically to the

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<v Speaker 1>television that also or a tripping hazard. I did not

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<v Speaker 1>personally see these, but like one generation back from me

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<v Speaker 1>and my family were like my great grandparents with their

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<v Speaker 1>hearing aids that connected directly to the TV. Yeah, if

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<v Speaker 1>you had two of these things going on, I shudder

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<v Speaker 1>to think at the danger level you were dealing with.

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<v Speaker 1>And I say that in case that sounded funny with

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<v Speaker 1>entire sincerity, because yeah, I would trip over everything. Early

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<v Speaker 1>ads for the flash mat touted its revolutionary nature. One

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<v Speaker 1>such full page newspaper ad had the headline, now, a

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<v Speaker 1>flash of light without wires controls your Zenith TV from

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<v Speaker 1>across the room shoots off long, annoying commercials while picture

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<v Speaker 1>remains on screen. The rest of the ads copy explained

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<v Speaker 1>the device in more detail for consumers because this was

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<v Speaker 1>entirely new technology. Quote, Flashmatic tuning is built into the set.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a Zenith development. No other set has anything like it.

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<v Speaker 1>There are no wires, chords or connections of any kind.

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<v Speaker 1>You simply point the light from the flashmatic gun into

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<v Speaker 1>one of the four flashmatic windows. There's one window in

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<v Speaker 1>each corner of the picture frame. The flashmatic light turns

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<v Speaker 1>the set on or off, changes stations forward or backward,

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<v Speaker 1>shuts off annoying commercials. It's unbelievably simple to operate, harmless

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<v Speaker 1>to humans, and built to last a lifetime. Many of

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<v Speaker 1>the ads showed a beam of light that was going

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<v Speaker 1>from the remote all the way to the TV to

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<v Speaker 1>show consumers exactly what it was, and the accompanying copy

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<v Speaker 1>often called it quote a flash of magic light. The

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<v Speaker 1>price point noted in the ad we just read from

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<v Speaker 1>was somewhat staggering. For a twenty one inch Zenith Bismarck

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<v Speaker 1>model television that included this new technology, that was four

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and nine dollars and ninety five cents, which would

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<v Speaker 1>be roughly like five thousand dollars today, so clearly the

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<v Speaker 1>flash Mattic was considered a luxury item. Other similar ads

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<v Speaker 1>leaned into the convenience of this new invention, noting quote,

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<v Speaker 1>you can turn the set on and off from your chair.

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<v Speaker 1>One explained quote flashmatic is not an accessory or attachment.

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<v Speaker 1>Sensitive photo cells and Zenith's famous fully automatic Bullseye tuning

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<v Speaker 1>circuits combined to make this television work like magic. Despite

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<v Speaker 1>that high cost, which retailers addressed by letting people buy

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<v Speaker 1>new TVs on installment plans. Almost thirty thousand TVs equipped

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<v Speaker 1>with flash Mattos were sold. Eugene Polly got a one

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<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars bonus for the success of this new product. But,

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<v Speaker 1>as is often the case with a brand new technology,

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<v Speaker 1>the user experience in the real world revealed some problems

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<v Speaker 1>that just were not immediately apparent when this product was

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<v Speaker 1>tested in a lab. For one, there was just a

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<v Speaker 1>basic issue of user memory. You had to remember which

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<v Speaker 1>corner of the TV you had to shoot at for

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<v Speaker 1>any given function, and that was not particularly intuitive, so

0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.960
<v Speaker 1>people got kind of frustrated. But the bigger issue was

0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.880
<v Speaker 1>that having a technology that is triggered by light in

0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:52.040
<v Speaker 1>people's homes where there are a lot of potential light sources,

0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.800
<v Speaker 1>led to a lot of problems. If a household had

0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:59.000
<v Speaker 1>a particularly bright lamp in a room, turning it on

0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.520
<v Speaker 1>might change the or volume settings, or turn the set

0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:06.240
<v Speaker 1>on or off. Similarly, in cases where a home's windows

0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.600
<v Speaker 1>weren't covered by curtains or shutters, the intense light of

0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.120
<v Speaker 1>sunrise or sunset could also cause the TV to act

0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.880
<v Speaker 1>as though it had received a user input. So owners

0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.160
<v Speaker 1>of flashmatic sets had to carefully plan where their television

0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.000
<v Speaker 1>set would be placed in the home without any light

0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.920
<v Speaker 1>sources or mirrors that could reflect them in positions where

0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.640
<v Speaker 1>they might impact the television. Rooms also had to be

0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.160
<v Speaker 1>fairly dim for the flash Matic to work consistently, as

0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.760
<v Speaker 1>ambient light made it harder for the receptors in the

0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.120
<v Speaker 1>screen to detect the light beam from the remote pointed

0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:44.320
<v Speaker 1>at them. Seeing that this idea could be further refined,

0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.200
<v Speaker 1>McDonald asked for another team to come up with something different.

0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.840
<v Speaker 1>In addition to the need to create a device that

0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.200
<v Speaker 1>would eliminate the light sensitivity issues of the flash Maatic,

0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.720
<v Speaker 1>the company wanted whatever new device came about to not

0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:04.040
<v Speaker 1>require batter because apparently some users had panicked when the

0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.680
<v Speaker 1>batteries and their Flashmatic failed and they thought their entire

0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:13.800
<v Speaker 1>very expensive television set was broken, and that caused some

0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:18.040
<v Speaker 1>woes for the company. Yeah. I never found specifics, but

0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:22.560
<v Speaker 1>I envision like a company switchboard, just getting constant calls

0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.280
<v Speaker 1>of I spent so much money on this and now

0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.240
<v Speaker 1>it's broken, and them going, no, you need to replace

0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:32.440
<v Speaker 1>batteries sometimes because batteries being used and everything was also

0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:36.720
<v Speaker 1>not that common yet. So the year after Polly's invention

0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:40.000
<v Speaker 1>was finished, there was a second remote control developed at

0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Zenith This one, called a space Command, was the result

0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:48.360
<v Speaker 1>of a project led by researcher Robert Adler. Adler and

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:52.960
<v Speaker 1>Polly are often characterized when this story is told because

0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.200
<v Speaker 1>of their differences so where Polly was from a poor

0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.560
<v Speaker 1>US family and had to leave college before he completed

0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:03.200
<v Speaker 1>his advanced degree to get a job. Adler, who was

0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.640
<v Speaker 1>born on December fourth, nineteen thirteen in Vienna, got his

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.879
<v Speaker 1>PhD in physics from the University of Vienna in nineteen

0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.600
<v Speaker 1>thirty seven. After that he moved to the US and

0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.120
<v Speaker 1>then in nineteen forty one he was hired to work

0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:20.720
<v Speaker 1>at Zenith. In the years right after he joined the company,

0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.640
<v Speaker 1>a lot of Adler's focus was in military applications. World

0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.320
<v Speaker 1>War Two led to a lot of innovations, and Adler

0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:31.840
<v Speaker 1>worked on projects like electro mechanical filters and high frequency

0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:36.560
<v Speaker 1>oscillators that were used for radios in US military aircraft.

0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.720
<v Speaker 1>Like a lot of engineers, he worked on loan from

0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:45.200
<v Speaker 1>Zenith to the US military. Meanwhile, Eugene Polly was also

0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.840
<v Speaker 1>working on the war effort. His concentration was in bomb

0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:54.280
<v Speaker 1>fuses and radar technologies, and once the war was over, Adler,

0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.160
<v Speaker 1>like Polly, continued on at Zenith working in television technology,

0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:00.840
<v Speaker 1>and for Adler, a lot of his work focused on

0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:04.000
<v Speaker 1>improving reception in picture and in a lot of cases

0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:08.119
<v Speaker 1>Adler implemented and drew from concepts that he had just

0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.760
<v Speaker 1>finished working on in his military radio work. There's one

0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.800
<v Speaker 1>newspaper reference that states that Adler was the person who

0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.760
<v Speaker 1>actually led the creation of the Lazybones tethered remote, but

0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.720
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't seem as though that's accurate. In the twenty

0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.720
<v Speaker 1>fifteen book Remote Control by Caitlin Benson Allett, the author

0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.359
<v Speaker 1>states that no one at Zenith seemed to know who

0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:32.280
<v Speaker 1>precisely came up with the Lazy Bones. According to some

0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:36.800
<v Speaker 1>write ups about early remote control history, Eugene McDonald went

0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.119
<v Speaker 1>directly to Adler to come up with something that solved

0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:44.080
<v Speaker 1>the problems of the flash mattic. That's another one that's unclear.

0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.760
<v Speaker 1>But Adler's team developed the Space Command and the design

0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:51.000
<v Speaker 1>of it was very different from Polly's remote. The Space

0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:56.040
<v Speaker 1>Command relied on high frequency chimes. The first model contained

0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.320
<v Speaker 1>two lightweight aluminum rods within the unit. A year user

0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.840
<v Speaker 1>pressed one of the buttons, the corresponding rod was struck

0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.200
<v Speaker 1>and the resulting ultrasonic noise would send a sound wave

0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.320
<v Speaker 1>that a microphone and receiver in the television picked up.

0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Depending on which wave that was, the channel was changed

0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:18.919
<v Speaker 1>or the sound was turned off. After the first model,

0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:22.560
<v Speaker 1>a four rod version was made, which could turn channels

0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.679
<v Speaker 1>up or down, turn sound on or off, or switch

0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:29.560
<v Speaker 1>the power on or off. If you're old enough to

0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.640
<v Speaker 1>have heard a remote control called a clicker that comes

0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.160
<v Speaker 1>from the clicking of the buttons on the space command,

0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:40.000
<v Speaker 1>although the sound that carried the signal was not generally

0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 1>perceptible to human ears. Before the idea for aluminum rods,

0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.679
<v Speaker 1>one of the technologies that Adler had considered was the

0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:51.600
<v Speaker 1>use of radio waves, a natural thought given how much

0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.480
<v Speaker 1>of his prior work had been done in that field,

0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.160
<v Speaker 1>But he had quickly realized that because radio waves could

0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.359
<v Speaker 1>travel through objects, there isn't a way to ensure that

0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.800
<v Speaker 1>your remote control was not going to change your neighbor's

0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:10.560
<v Speaker 1>TV channel or the volume of the sound. Yeah, the

0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.760
<v Speaker 1>sound waves got dampened by the walls of the house,

0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:17.879
<v Speaker 1>but not so sort of like people's neighbors baby monitors

0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:22.359
<v Speaker 1>picking up on one another. Yeah, same problem. And unlike

0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.439
<v Speaker 1>the gun design of the flash Mattic, the Space Command

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.040
<v Speaker 1>was a small rectangular box with switches that were labeled

0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:33.040
<v Speaker 1>for their function. Adler's team had solved all of the

0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.760
<v Speaker 1>problems of the earlier model and without the need for

0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:42.640
<v Speaker 1>batteries as requested, and this device worked consistently. There are

0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:46.280
<v Speaker 1>some stories of these sound based remotes being affected by

0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.720
<v Speaker 1>sounds in the home, like keys or pet tags jingling,

0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.680
<v Speaker 1>or even coins clicking together, but there are also accounts

0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:57.080
<v Speaker 1>that attribute those problems not to the Space Command but

0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:59.959
<v Speaker 1>to knockoffs of it that started appearing on the market.

0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Adler's remote went to market so soon after the Flash

0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.879
<v Speaker 1>Mattic that one of the incentives that was offered to

0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:10.200
<v Speaker 1>consumers was the chance to trade in your flash Madic

0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:14.800
<v Speaker 1>enabled TV for a new Space Command model. Zenith also

0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:18.280
<v Speaker 1>offered the Space Command technology on a wider range of

0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.920
<v Speaker 1>TV sets, so consumers could still get a remote control

0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:25.720
<v Speaker 1>if their budget did not allow for a full sized picture.

0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.399
<v Speaker 1>ADS touted quote no electricity, no batteries or fuel of

0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:34.479
<v Speaker 1>any kind, no wires, no tubes, no transistors, no radio

0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:38.240
<v Speaker 1>waves that might interfere with the set next door. Some

0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:43.240
<v Speaker 1>even included the note no flashlights. Nineteen fifty seven. Ad

0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:47.680
<v Speaker 1>even featured George Burns and Gracie Allen as celebrity spokespeople

0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:52.240
<v Speaker 1>for the space Command. Yeah. Just to be clear too,

0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.880
<v Speaker 1>that trade in was not like a freeb You would

0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:58.360
<v Speaker 1>just get a lot of credit torture new television if

0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.399
<v Speaker 1>you had just bought a flash matic Delewis. Zenith was

0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.800
<v Speaker 1>not giving away new TVs. But coming up, we're going

0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.200
<v Speaker 1>to talk about how Eugene Polly felt about things when

0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.600
<v Speaker 1>Adler's invention was produced. But first we will hear from

0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.399
<v Speaker 1>the sponsors that keep stuff you missed in history class going.

0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Zenith put all of its advertising power behind Adler's design,

0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:31.120
<v Speaker 1>and as a consequence, Adler got a lot of attention

0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:34.679
<v Speaker 1>as the father of the remote control and that was

0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:38.880
<v Speaker 1>something that bothered Eugene Polly from the beginning. He had

0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:41.719
<v Speaker 1>pioneered the remote control space in a lot of ways,

0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:44.040
<v Speaker 1>but he felt left out of the story as he

0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:48.080
<v Speaker 1>watched Adler give interviews and get awards. Adler was given

0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:51.639
<v Speaker 1>the Outstanding Technical Achievement Award of the Institute of Radio

0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:55.680
<v Speaker 1>Engineers in nineteen fifty eight because of it. Polly later

0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:58.440
<v Speaker 1>told a reporter quote, a father has to be present

0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:01.280
<v Speaker 1>at conception, and if you're not, you're not the father.

0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:07.280
<v Speaker 1>Even in the existing Zenith web page that still exists today,

0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:10.560
<v Speaker 1>in the list of the company's milestones, it lists the

0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:15.280
<v Speaker 1>two devices this way nineteen fifty five, first wireless TV

0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:20.639
<v Speaker 1>remote control, flash Matic nineteen fifty six, first practical wireless

0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:25.320
<v Speaker 1>TV remote control, Space Command. In the twenty five years

0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:30.080
<v Speaker 1>that followed the Space Command's introduction, Zenith Solder reported nine

0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:35.600
<v Speaker 1>million of the ultrasonic remote controls. During that time, Zenith

0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:39.000
<v Speaker 1>had to fend off a lot of imitators. Just two

0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:43.520
<v Speaker 1>years after the Space Command's introduction, Zenith sued the Admiral

0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:47.879
<v Speaker 1>Corporation for patent infringement. Admiral was not new to the

0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:51.480
<v Speaker 1>remote control game, but after the Space Command was released,

0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:55.879
<v Speaker 1>the company altered its sn R remote and even hired

0:23:55.880 --> 0:23:59.960
<v Speaker 1>a former Zenith engineer to work on it. Admiral lost

0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:02.280
<v Speaker 1>that suit, but it was not the only company that

0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:05.800
<v Speaker 1>tried to copy the design. A lot of those copycats, though,

0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:09.760
<v Speaker 1>were not nearly as effective, and Zenith continued to dominate

0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:13.480
<v Speaker 1>the market. Within six years of the introduction of the

0:24:13.520 --> 0:24:17.159
<v Speaker 1>Space Command, Robert Adler had become the vice president and

0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:20.359
<v Speaker 1>director of Research at Zenith, and he stayed in that

0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:23.640
<v Speaker 1>role for more than fifteen years before retiring in nineteen

0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:28.320
<v Speaker 1>seventy nine. But even after retirement, he remained involved with Zenith,

0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:30.640
<v Speaker 1>and he served as a consultant for the company until

0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:35.240
<v Speaker 1>the late nineteen nineties. Polly retired from Zenith in nineteen

0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:39.640
<v Speaker 1>eighty two, after almost fifty years with the company. Some

0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:42.199
<v Speaker 1>accounts listed nineteen eighty two as the year both he

0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:45.919
<v Speaker 1>and Adler retired. By the time he ended his career,

0:24:46.000 --> 0:24:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Eugene Polly was a widower, having lost his wife Blanche

0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:52.400
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen seventy six. He lived with his daughter Joan

0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:55.840
<v Speaker 1>in Lombard, Illinois, until Jones's death in two thousand and eight.

0:24:56.760 --> 0:25:00.560
<v Speaker 1>Ultrasonic technology was what everyone was doing for for twenty

0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:05.040
<v Speaker 1>five years, but it didn't remain the standard for remote controls.

0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:08.800
<v Speaker 1>In the nineteen eighties, around the same time that Polly

0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:12.800
<v Speaker 1>and Adler were retiring, a Canadian company called view Star

0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:17.960
<v Speaker 1>developed the infrared remote control. Zenith partnered with Ustar to

0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:21.160
<v Speaker 1>produce and market the device, and this was in part

0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:25.760
<v Speaker 1>a reaction to other technological developments. When there was only

0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:28.520
<v Speaker 1>a small range of channels a person could watch, a

0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:31.719
<v Speaker 1>simple up and down channel changer was great, but as

0:25:31.800 --> 0:25:36.040
<v Speaker 1>cable and satellite television services expanded the channel lineup from

0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:41.000
<v Speaker 1>like thirteen into dozens and even hundreds of possible options.

0:25:41.560 --> 0:25:46.080
<v Speaker 1>A new remote technology was clearly needed, and this was

0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:50.200
<v Speaker 1>a significant jump in requirements. They needed more detailed input,

0:25:50.359 --> 0:25:53.480
<v Speaker 1>like a numeric keypad so viewers could just type in

0:25:53.600 --> 0:25:58.119
<v Speaker 1>channel numbers rather than scrolling through hundreds of them. Also

0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:03.840
<v Speaker 1>the capability to select different potential av inputs like cable boxes,

0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:07.399
<v Speaker 1>LaserDisc players, that kind of thing. I remember when I

0:26:07.480 --> 0:26:11.360
<v Speaker 1>was a kid and we had a VCR and an ATARI.

0:26:12.119 --> 0:26:15.000
<v Speaker 1>We had a physical little switch that we flipped back

0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:18.119
<v Speaker 1>and forth to do this. Infrared fit the bill of

0:26:18.160 --> 0:26:21.639
<v Speaker 1>providing all of those different options. It enabled remotes to

0:26:21.760 --> 0:26:26.120
<v Speaker 1>use pulse coding, that's binary. Each coded transmission has segments

0:26:26.119 --> 0:26:29.000
<v Speaker 1>of light and absence of light that make up its signature,

0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:32.720
<v Speaker 1>and each signature is unique to the assigned function. That

0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:35.520
<v Speaker 1>light is pointed at the receiver, just like that the

0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:38.239
<v Speaker 1>human eye does not perceive. So the remotes we use

0:26:38.320 --> 0:26:42.159
<v Speaker 1>today are actually closer to Polly's flash mattic than to

0:26:42.320 --> 0:26:47.480
<v Speaker 1>Adler's space command. In nineteen ninety seven, the National Academy

0:26:47.520 --> 0:26:51.440
<v Speaker 1>of Television, Arts and Sciences gave an Emmy for pioneering

0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:56.160
<v Speaker 1>development of wireless remote controls for consumer television, and both

0:26:56.240 --> 0:27:00.399
<v Speaker 1>Polly and Adler jointly received that recognition of them Orton's

0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:04.520
<v Speaker 1>of the remote control's invention. In two thousand, are write

0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:07.720
<v Speaker 1>up in The Baltimore Sun celebrated fifty years of the

0:27:07.760 --> 0:27:11.080
<v Speaker 1>remote control, and in that article, Polly told the paper quote,

0:27:11.160 --> 0:27:15.200
<v Speaker 1>it makes me think maybe my life wasn't wasted. Maybe

0:27:15.200 --> 0:27:18.080
<v Speaker 1>I did something for humanity, like the guy who invented

0:27:18.080 --> 0:27:21.919
<v Speaker 1>the flush toilet. Although Polly stated in his interview for

0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:25.760
<v Speaker 1>the article that he and Adler were feuding, Zenith's historian

0:27:25.920 --> 0:27:30.119
<v Speaker 1>John Taylor downplayed any conflict, stating quote, I think the

0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:34.320
<v Speaker 1>feud is way overblown. One invention lasted one year, the

0:27:34.359 --> 0:27:38.359
<v Speaker 1>other twenty five years. The industry generally considers Bob Adler

0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:42.520
<v Speaker 1>the father of the remote control. Remember the name John Taylor,

0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:44.680
<v Speaker 1>because he's going to come up again in just a bit.

0:27:45.600 --> 0:27:48.760
<v Speaker 1>In a two thousand and four interview, Adler commented on

0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:53.359
<v Speaker 1>his impact in the creation of modern television culture. He

0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:56.320
<v Speaker 1>stated quote, people ask me all the time, don't you

0:27:56.359 --> 0:27:59.520
<v Speaker 1>feel guilty for it? And I say that's ridiculous. It

0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:03.240
<v Speaker 1>seems reasonable and rational to control the TV from where

0:28:03.240 --> 0:28:07.879
<v Speaker 1>you normally sit and watch television. Robert Adler died on

0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:11.600
<v Speaker 1>February fifteenth, two thousand and seven, and before he died,

0:28:11.760 --> 0:28:14.040
<v Speaker 1>he said that he felt that Polly had not gotten

0:28:14.200 --> 0:28:18.199
<v Speaker 1>enough credit for his innovations in the remote control. He

0:28:18.280 --> 0:28:20.639
<v Speaker 1>noted in a two thousand and six interview quote, I

0:28:20.680 --> 0:28:24.119
<v Speaker 1>don't believe it has a single father, but the general

0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:28.879
<v Speaker 1>public wants one name to attach to something. Adler also

0:28:29.040 --> 0:28:33.000
<v Speaker 1>downplayed the importance of the invention overall, saying he that's

0:28:33.040 --> 0:28:38.160
<v Speaker 1>Adler had invented other things that he thought were more important. Additionally,

0:28:38.320 --> 0:28:41.560
<v Speaker 1>according to a quote his widow, Ingrid Adler, gave to

0:28:41.600 --> 0:28:43.800
<v Speaker 1>the press in the wake of his death, Adler was

0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:48.000
<v Speaker 1>not much of a TV watcher himself. She told reporters quote,

0:28:48.040 --> 0:28:50.280
<v Speaker 1>he was more of a reader. He was a man

0:28:50.320 --> 0:28:52.280
<v Speaker 1>who would dream in the night and wake up and

0:28:52.320 --> 0:28:55.880
<v Speaker 1>say I just solved a problem. He was always thinking science.

0:28:56.880 --> 0:29:01.080
<v Speaker 1>While Polly had always wanted more recognition for inventing one

0:29:01.080 --> 0:29:04.440
<v Speaker 1>of the earliest remote controls, Adler is said to have

0:29:04.480 --> 0:29:08.120
<v Speaker 1>always wanted less. He felt that he invented a lot

0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:11.120
<v Speaker 1>of other things that were more important, and he continued

0:29:11.120 --> 0:29:14.640
<v Speaker 1>to invent right up until his death. The last patent

0:29:14.720 --> 0:29:18.400
<v Speaker 1>application he filed was for a touch screen technology, and

0:29:18.480 --> 0:29:21.840
<v Speaker 1>that patent was pending when he died. He had really

0:29:21.880 --> 0:29:26.160
<v Speaker 1>been a prolific inventor. Adler had more than one hundred

0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:31.240
<v Speaker 1>and fifty patents to his name. Yeah, the exact number

0:29:31.240 --> 0:29:33.720
<v Speaker 1>eluded me. I saw some articles that said like one

0:29:33.800 --> 0:29:36.160
<v Speaker 1>hundred and twenty, others one hundred and eighty. And then

0:29:36.200 --> 0:29:39.000
<v Speaker 1>when you go looking, there are so many Robert Adlers

0:29:39.080 --> 0:29:42.959
<v Speaker 1>that do that have patents, and sometimes they get lumped

0:29:42.960 --> 0:29:45.120
<v Speaker 1>together as though they're one person. That I was like,

0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:47.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't have time to sort through this, so, but

0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:51.480
<v Speaker 1>it was a lot. Although Adler did not think the

0:29:51.520 --> 0:29:56.000
<v Speaker 1>remote control was all that important, Eugene Polyscher did. He

0:29:56.120 --> 0:29:59.720
<v Speaker 1>told a reporter when he was interviewed following Adler's death, quote,

0:29:59.760 --> 0:30:02.360
<v Speaker 1>this this is the greatest thing since the wheel. We

0:30:02.520 --> 0:30:07.160
<v Speaker 1>did something for humanity. Polly also had quite a few patents,

0:30:07.200 --> 0:30:10.480
<v Speaker 1>although not nearly as many as Adler. Polly had eighteen.

0:30:11.280 --> 0:30:14.320
<v Speaker 1>One of those was for a push button radio that

0:30:14.480 --> 0:30:19.040
<v Speaker 1>was used in cars. Eugene Polly lived several years after

0:30:19.160 --> 0:30:23.320
<v Speaker 1>Adler's death, and Polly died from pneumonia in twenty twelve

0:30:23.400 --> 0:30:27.880
<v Speaker 1>in Downersgrove, Illinois. After his death, the Los Angeles Times

0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:31.200
<v Speaker 1>ran an article about him and included quotes from Zenith

0:30:31.320 --> 0:30:35.760
<v Speaker 1>historian John Taylor, who had different messaging than he did

0:30:35.800 --> 0:30:39.960
<v Speaker 1>when speaking to The Baltimore Sun twelve years earlier. This

0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:44.240
<v Speaker 1>time he acknowledged Polly's importance while also kind of straddling

0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:48.320
<v Speaker 1>the line regarding the issue of attribution that Polly had

0:30:48.320 --> 0:30:51.640
<v Speaker 1>felt left out of for so many years. This time,

0:30:51.680 --> 0:30:54.880
<v Speaker 1>Taylor stated, quote, it's hard to even fathom the world

0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:58.360
<v Speaker 1>today without the remote control. Today it's not a luxury,

0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:01.240
<v Speaker 1>it's not a convenience, it's an assse. I think there's

0:31:01.240 --> 0:31:04.000
<v Speaker 1>no question that Gene Polly is the father of the

0:31:04.040 --> 0:31:07.520
<v Speaker 1>wireless remote control. There are some news reports that made

0:31:07.560 --> 0:31:10.720
<v Speaker 1>it seem like he was overshadowed by doctor Robert Adler.

0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:16.360
<v Speaker 1>Zenith has always considered them the co inventors. And another statement,

0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:19.280
<v Speaker 1>Taylor noted that Eugene always carried one of his splash

0:31:19.320 --> 0:31:21.640
<v Speaker 1>maattics around with him to show people, and that he

0:31:21.800 --> 0:31:24.840
<v Speaker 1>also loved new technology, saying quote, he was a proud

0:31:24.880 --> 0:31:28.960
<v Speaker 1>owner of a flat screen TV and a modern remote. Yeah.

0:31:29.000 --> 0:31:32.360
<v Speaker 1>The messaging kind of changed there from one Lass in

0:31:32.480 --> 0:31:36.080
<v Speaker 1>one year one twenty five. Robert Edler is a father too.

0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:39.320
<v Speaker 1>We always thought both of them were really the fathers.

0:31:39.440 --> 0:31:43.920
<v Speaker 1>It's fine. As for Zenith, in the autumn of nineteen

0:31:44.000 --> 0:31:49.200
<v Speaker 1>ninety five, LG Electronics Incorporated became the major shareholder of Zenith.

0:31:49.760 --> 0:31:52.760
<v Speaker 1>The Zenith brand had a refresh in nineteen ninety seven,

0:31:52.880 --> 0:31:56.440
<v Speaker 1>but then restructured completely in nineteen ninety nine, and by

0:31:56.480 --> 0:31:59.480
<v Speaker 1>the end of that year it became a fully owned

0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:05.200
<v Speaker 1>subsidies of LG. In two thousand, Motorola acquired Zenus Network

0:32:05.280 --> 0:32:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Systems Division in an effort to quote strengthen its digital

0:32:08.920 --> 0:32:12.560
<v Speaker 1>satellite business by expanding its product lines and customer base,

0:32:12.880 --> 0:32:18.479
<v Speaker 1>particularly in the international marketplace. Today Zenith exists, but it

0:32:18.560 --> 0:32:22.040
<v Speaker 1>is LG's research and development branch, operating out of a

0:32:22.120 --> 0:32:28.160
<v Speaker 1>laboratory building in Lincolnshire, Illinois. It's now essentially impossible to

0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:32.200
<v Speaker 1>buy a new television that works without a remote control.

0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:36.080
<v Speaker 1>More than forty million televisions are sold in the US annually,

0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:39.360
<v Speaker 1>with that number expected to reach fifty million by twenty

0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:43.400
<v Speaker 1>twenty three, and all of them ship with remotes. Plus

0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:47.760
<v Speaker 1>remotes are also sold separately for replacements or specialty uses

0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:51.720
<v Speaker 1>such as universal remotes. This is a far cry from

0:32:51.760 --> 0:32:54.760
<v Speaker 1>the thirty thousand units of the flash Mattic that's sold

0:32:54.760 --> 0:32:58.960
<v Speaker 1>in the nineteen fifties. Yeah. Now, I can't imagine buying

0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:01.440
<v Speaker 1>a TV at not having remote in the box. Yeah,

0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:04.440
<v Speaker 1>mine our TV, I don't think you can. Yeah, Like,

0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:09.280
<v Speaker 1>our TV technically has buttons, but they're so built in

0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:12.680
<v Speaker 1>to the like you can't even tell where they are.

0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:15.600
<v Speaker 1>You have to know and fish around for them if

0:33:15.640 --> 0:33:18.360
<v Speaker 1>you want to touch a button for some reason. Well,

0:33:18.360 --> 0:33:20.400
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of them have migrated to like the

0:33:20.520 --> 0:33:23.520
<v Speaker 1>under edge of the screen or even in some cases

0:33:23.600 --> 0:33:26.840
<v Speaker 1>right behind it. Yeah. So they're basically like, don't touch

0:33:26.840 --> 0:33:29.000
<v Speaker 1>the buttons. You don't know what you do? No, Yeah,

0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:31.240
<v Speaker 1>just don't mess with it. Don't mess with it. We

0:33:31.320 --> 0:33:35.760
<v Speaker 1>can whax so rhapsodic about this on Friday. Yeah, I

0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:39.680
<v Speaker 1>have a listener mail which is about an episode that

0:33:39.840 --> 0:33:42.360
<v Speaker 1>you did, but it is referring to behind the scenes

0:33:42.400 --> 0:33:45.520
<v Speaker 1>things that I said. This is from our listener Kyle,

0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:48.239
<v Speaker 1>who writes, perhaps you'll get a lot of emails about this,

0:33:48.320 --> 0:33:50.959
<v Speaker 1>and hopefully most, if not all, of them are not angry.

0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:52.960
<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to throw out there that when I

0:33:53.000 --> 0:33:55.240
<v Speaker 1>wanted to get a vasectomy. The doctor wanted to know

0:33:55.320 --> 0:33:58.200
<v Speaker 1>my wife was involved in the decision too. The way

0:33:58.240 --> 0:34:00.600
<v Speaker 1>I took it is that if you're married, usually should

0:34:00.640 --> 0:34:03.480
<v Speaker 1>be making this decision together and not secretly doing it

0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:06.560
<v Speaker 1>without your spouse's knowledge. Though I can't think of instances

0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:08.759
<v Speaker 1>where this is not the case, but I took it

0:34:08.800 --> 0:34:10.680
<v Speaker 1>as them wanting to confirm that I'm not making a

0:34:10.719 --> 0:34:13.080
<v Speaker 1>decision that will affect the whole family without at least

0:34:13.160 --> 0:34:16.600
<v Speaker 1>my wife's knowledge. However, that being said, it does seem

0:34:16.680 --> 0:34:19.640
<v Speaker 1>much more culturally acceptable for men to make this decision

0:34:19.680 --> 0:34:22.360
<v Speaker 1>than women, and I'm sure there is often a but

0:34:22.600 --> 0:34:24.719
<v Speaker 1>why don't you want to be a mother? Undertow and

0:34:24.760 --> 0:34:27.480
<v Speaker 1>that men don't get so Hopefully the doctors you spoke

0:34:27.520 --> 0:34:30.520
<v Speaker 1>to mainly wanted to confirm that this was something agreed

0:34:30.520 --> 0:34:33.720
<v Speaker 1>to by both spouses and not something hidden, though again

0:34:33.800 --> 0:34:36.320
<v Speaker 1>I know men and women are treated differently in these areas,

0:34:36.360 --> 0:34:38.759
<v Speaker 1>to the women's detriment. I love the podcast and listen

0:34:38.760 --> 0:34:41.000
<v Speaker 1>all the time. Kyle Kyle. I love this email, and

0:34:41.040 --> 0:34:45.479
<v Speaker 1>here's why, because you are right on the button. There

0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:48.320
<v Speaker 1>is a lot of I have a thing, and admittedly

0:34:48.360 --> 0:34:51.440
<v Speaker 1>this is my soapbox. I don't want to make anybody

0:34:51.480 --> 0:34:54.719
<v Speaker 1>mad or feel like I am in any way denigrating

0:34:54.719 --> 0:34:57.719
<v Speaker 1>anybody's choices. But there is a thing that happens when

0:34:57.760 --> 0:35:03.799
<v Speaker 1>you are not a woman who wants kids, where you

0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:06.719
<v Speaker 1>have to explain why all the time. And I will

0:35:06.719 --> 0:35:09.919
<v Speaker 1>say this, and again I'm not saying this. This isn't

0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:12.399
<v Speaker 1>a trick to like make anybody feel bad. But when

0:35:12.440 --> 0:35:15.520
<v Speaker 1>you ask a parent, why did you want kids, they're

0:35:15.560 --> 0:35:18.919
<v Speaker 1>often a little stymied as to the answer. Uh huh.

0:35:19.280 --> 0:35:23.920
<v Speaker 1>And but nobody ever asked that question is why? Yeah,

0:35:23.960 --> 0:35:27.440
<v Speaker 1>it's always the other way around. So simultaneously kind of

0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:32.960
<v Speaker 1>alluded to in this email, if somebody is trying to

0:35:33.000 --> 0:35:35.600
<v Speaker 1>get a tubul ligation and they have not had a

0:35:35.680 --> 0:35:40.760
<v Speaker 1>child and they're very young, it can be a laborious,

0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:44.840
<v Speaker 1>uphill process to get any doctor to agree with that.

0:35:44.840 --> 0:35:49.799
<v Speaker 1>That was me, Yeah, that was you. And like for

0:35:49.880 --> 0:35:52.839
<v Speaker 1>people who are not in a relationship with anyone will

0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:55.719
<v Speaker 1>go to a doctor and the like the question is not,

0:35:56.200 --> 0:35:58.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, I would like to get a tubule ligation. Great,

0:35:58.600 --> 0:36:00.520
<v Speaker 1>when we can we schedule this? Like do you have

0:36:00.640 --> 0:36:04.480
<v Speaker 1>medical contraindications for doing this of any sort? It's that like, oh,

0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:06.640
<v Speaker 1>are you sure you're not going to change your mind? Oh,

0:36:06.680 --> 0:36:09.080
<v Speaker 1>are you sure you're not going to want kids later? Oh?

0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:11.520
<v Speaker 1>What if you get married and your husband wants kids.

0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:17.280
<v Speaker 1>It is a huge uphill battle specifically for tubal ligations

0:36:17.280 --> 0:36:19.960
<v Speaker 1>in a way that does not apply to vasectomies, Like

0:36:20.000 --> 0:36:22.680
<v Speaker 1>if a young person wants to go get a vasectomy,

0:36:22.680 --> 0:36:25.000
<v Speaker 1>a lot of times it's like, okay, we're on board

0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:30.279
<v Speaker 1>with that, And so there's a gender difference going on there.

0:36:30.440 --> 0:36:33.640
<v Speaker 1>For sure, I did not have to personally deal with

0:36:33.680 --> 0:36:38.360
<v Speaker 1>this because when I wanted a long term birth control option,

0:36:38.560 --> 0:36:42.520
<v Speaker 1>I went with an IUD, and my primary care doctor

0:36:42.680 --> 0:36:48.319
<v Speaker 1>referred me to a gynecologist who only did gynecology, not

0:36:48.440 --> 0:36:54.640
<v Speaker 1>gynecology and obstetrics, right, And her focus was totally on

0:36:54.800 --> 0:36:58.319
<v Speaker 1>like the gynecological aspect of it, And there was no

0:36:58.560 --> 0:37:03.160
<v Speaker 1>kind of like supposition that my partner needed to be involved.

0:37:03.840 --> 0:37:06.520
<v Speaker 1>And since it is more reversible to have an IUD

0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:10.680
<v Speaker 1>than to have a tubeligation, like that was just not

0:37:10.800 --> 0:37:14.879
<v Speaker 1>part of the conversation. Yeah, And I will say when

0:37:15.160 --> 0:37:20.760
<v Speaker 1>I had the like discussions, it wasn't is your husband

0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:23.520
<v Speaker 1>okay with this? It was we need to schedule your

0:37:23.600 --> 0:37:26.040
<v Speaker 1>husband to come in and talk to us like it

0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:29.280
<v Speaker 1>wasn't enough for me to go Yeah, he's totally on board. Listen,

0:37:29.320 --> 0:37:31.319
<v Speaker 1>we're both the youngest in the family. We barely can

0:37:31.360 --> 0:37:33.000
<v Speaker 1>tie our own shoes, like we do not need to

0:37:33.000 --> 0:37:35.960
<v Speaker 1>be in charge of other people. It was literally like

0:37:36.239 --> 0:37:39.399
<v Speaker 1>he needs to physically be here and have the discussion right,

0:37:40.560 --> 0:37:46.840
<v Speaker 1>which Brian found hilarious because it is very silly. I

0:37:46.880 --> 0:37:50.480
<v Speaker 1>will say too, this is like an overshare. But the

0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:56.080
<v Speaker 1>tube legation I got was a different method than I

0:37:56.080 --> 0:37:59.800
<v Speaker 1>think is super common. This may have changed in the

0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:02.320
<v Speaker 1>this was quite a number of years ago, but I

0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:04.239
<v Speaker 1>will tell you why. I don't know how common it

0:38:04.320 --> 0:38:08.600
<v Speaker 1>is still because I have clamps. It's not the tie

0:38:08.640 --> 0:38:12.200
<v Speaker 1>off of the tubes. It's a clamp that closes the

0:38:12.239 --> 0:38:15.759
<v Speaker 1>tube up. And then the idea is that if you

0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:18.920
<v Speaker 1>change your mind within like a few years, they could

0:38:18.960 --> 0:38:21.920
<v Speaker 1>potentially reverse it, but if you don't, it will just

0:38:21.960 --> 0:38:26.919
<v Speaker 1>scar over and become more and more permanent. Sounds fine

0:38:26.920 --> 0:38:30.600
<v Speaker 1>to me, and I know when I had it it

0:38:30.640 --> 0:38:32.719
<v Speaker 1>was not common at all because my doctor at the

0:38:32.760 --> 0:38:36.719
<v Speaker 1>time was kind of pioneering in that usage. But the

0:38:36.800 --> 0:38:39.120
<v Speaker 1>reason I think it is still not all that common

0:38:39.320 --> 0:38:43.640
<v Speaker 1>is that when I have had X rays, MRI, et cetera.

0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:47.360
<v Speaker 1>In recent years, they'll go, there's something in your abdomen

0:38:47.600 --> 0:38:51.240
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, yep, it's clamps. I mean they're little tiny,

0:38:51.320 --> 0:38:55.080
<v Speaker 1>it's like a little tiny plastic, almost like the way

0:38:55.080 --> 0:38:58.640
<v Speaker 1>a handcuff works, but like Barbie size. It has come

0:38:58.719 --> 0:39:01.359
<v Speaker 1>up several times, and I'm like, if it's uncommon enough

0:39:01.360 --> 0:39:07.040
<v Speaker 1>that the modern radiology texts, doctors in some cases that

0:39:07.080 --> 0:39:09.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm talking to are like, hey, what's that in your

0:39:09.520 --> 0:39:14.560
<v Speaker 1>apt Yeah, I'm presuming it's not still the most common way,

0:39:14.600 --> 0:39:19.560
<v Speaker 1>but right, it's a weird thing. It's a weird thing. Yeah. Yeah.

0:39:19.600 --> 0:39:23.560
<v Speaker 1>I also, you know, listen, there is the other outlier

0:39:23.719 --> 0:39:26.920
<v Speaker 1>case that I think is important in all of this

0:39:27.760 --> 0:39:32.480
<v Speaker 1>to mention, where there are people who may be in

0:39:32.560 --> 0:39:38.200
<v Speaker 1>relationships where they feel very trapped and potentially unsafe and

0:39:38.239 --> 0:39:41.880
<v Speaker 1>they do not want a child. Yeah, and in that

0:39:42.080 --> 0:39:46.839
<v Speaker 1>case to bring a spouse in could be very very dangerous,

0:39:46.880 --> 0:39:49.919
<v Speaker 1>extremely Yeah. And that's why I think, like, I don't

0:39:49.920 --> 0:39:52.360
<v Speaker 1>want to talk around that and not directly say this

0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:57.160
<v Speaker 1>is a case issue where like doctors need to understand

0:39:57.440 --> 0:39:59.400
<v Speaker 1>and it's tricky because a lot of women are not

0:39:59.440 --> 0:40:01.720
<v Speaker 1>going to be. I mean, a lot of people would

0:40:01.719 --> 0:40:06.800
<v Speaker 1>not be willing to say, hey, my partner is abusive

0:40:06.920 --> 0:40:09.120
<v Speaker 1>or dangerous and I'm so scared I want to have

0:40:09.160 --> 0:40:12.000
<v Speaker 1>this done. But if they don't say that and then

0:40:12.040 --> 0:40:16.719
<v Speaker 1>that person comes in, you're putting them in incredibly harmful circumstances. Right,

0:40:17.000 --> 0:40:18.960
<v Speaker 1>So this is one of the many ways that I

0:40:18.960 --> 0:40:24.000
<v Speaker 1>think people aren't thinking about why that conversation is a problem. Yeah,

0:40:24.080 --> 0:40:26.920
<v Speaker 1>but Kyle, thank you for your your thoughtful thing, and

0:40:26.960 --> 0:40:30.480
<v Speaker 1>you're right. People don't don't do the same thing with dudes.

0:40:32.280 --> 0:40:34.680
<v Speaker 1>I even had two of the doctors that I talked

0:40:34.680 --> 0:40:37.440
<v Speaker 1>to you before I found the doctor who became my

0:40:37.480 --> 0:40:40.320
<v Speaker 1>regular doctor, who was like, okay, if and she asked,

0:40:40.400 --> 0:40:42.560
<v Speaker 1>is you know is your husband on board? She asked

0:40:42.560 --> 0:40:45.200
<v Speaker 1>me questions like is your household safe? Are you doing

0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:47.400
<v Speaker 1>this for a reason? Like I was like, okay, she

0:40:47.480 --> 0:40:50.839
<v Speaker 1>gets it. Yeah, I think do you feel safe at home?

0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:53.840
<v Speaker 1>Has become a standard screening question in a lot of

0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:56.600
<v Speaker 1>medical practices. That is something that my doctor asks me

0:40:56.680 --> 0:41:00.440
<v Speaker 1>every time I'm there. Yeah, but was definitely not always

0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:04.400
<v Speaker 1>the case. Is twenty two thousand, what year did I

0:41:04.440 --> 0:41:09.640
<v Speaker 1>have that done? I don't know. Here's two thousand was

0:41:09.719 --> 0:41:12.000
<v Speaker 1>not as common then, so that was like I said,

0:41:12.000 --> 0:41:15.640
<v Speaker 1>she's a little cutting edge in many ways. But the

0:41:15.719 --> 0:41:18.360
<v Speaker 1>other two even said, well then why isn't your husband

0:41:18.360 --> 0:41:21.479
<v Speaker 1>considering of a sectomy? Like my value would go down

0:41:21.520 --> 0:41:27.920
<v Speaker 1>if I wasn't able to make babies. Yeah, it's a

0:41:28.040 --> 0:41:31.600
<v Speaker 1>very fraught topic. It's very hard to talk about because

0:41:31.640 --> 0:41:35.560
<v Speaker 1>everybody that chooses a different path will sometimes feel like

0:41:35.680 --> 0:41:39.440
<v Speaker 1>their choice is being attacked. I just know what's right

0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:43.400
<v Speaker 1>for me. I'm not used for anybody else, right, everybody'd

0:41:43.440 --> 0:41:46.080
<v Speaker 1>be cool. If you would like to write to us,

0:41:46.160 --> 0:41:49.560
<v Speaker 1>you could do so at History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:52.040
<v Speaker 1>If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, where you'll get

0:41:52.080 --> 0:41:57.160
<v Speaker 1>history and surprise discussions of you know, sterilization and parenting choices,

0:41:58.680 --> 0:42:02.080
<v Speaker 1>you can do that on the iHeartRadio app or anywhere

0:42:02.120 --> 0:42:09.800
<v Speaker 1>you listen to your favorite shows. Stuff you Missed in

0:42:09.880 --> 0:42:13.560
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