WEBVTT - “Justice” 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:04.200 Camp hell an Awake is a production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.360 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:10.360 those of the author and participants and do not necessarily 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.680 represent those of I Heart Media or its employees. Due 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:17.919 to discussion of traumatic, sexual, and violent content, listener discussion 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:25.239 is advised. I remember when the lawsuits started. I remember 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:29.800 walking through my mother in law's house and stopping dead 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:34.760 in my tracks because the news was on, and I 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.920 heard the word and Waki, and all the hair on 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:43.720 the back of my neck stood up, and I walked 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.120 over to where the TV was and I just stood 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:51.320 there staring at the TV, listening to them say that 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:54.960 things were going down and that people were getting arrested, 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:59.800 and that lawsuits were happening. And I remember starting to 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:04.640 I and my mother in law did not know at 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:07.759 the time that I had been to Anna Waki, and 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:13.480 she knew then. She knew then. I was so glad 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.760 that it was finally happening, and I was so mortified 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:22.480 at the same time because even though things happened, that 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:28.080 we're bad there, we were so brainwashed. We loved Ann Wakey. 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:32.000 This is Kelly, a survivor of van A Waki remembering 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:36.800 her reaction to first hearing about the scandal. With Louis 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:40.440 Petter now in jail, multiple civil suits had been filed 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:44.880 against him and Anna Wake Incorporated. Attorney Pat edel Kind 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.640 worked tirelessly along with her partner in the suit, attorney 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.680 Randy Blackwood. With the number of clients and suits filed, 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.000 this case would take over three years before it finally 0:01:56.040 --> 0:02:00.840 went to court. Here's Pat. Once it hit the press 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:05.800 of the Atlanta paper and somewhere around the id state, 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:10.560 it became known and people would come or they would 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:15.239 call me, and they would be interested in talking. And 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.600 I had dedicated my life to to talking to them. 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:26.720 Working on this case. We've basically consolidated in his office, 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:31.919 although I had by our own and uh we turned 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.799 down a ton of paper. We had so many, so 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:40.200 many people working for us at someone one time. It 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.639 was just impossible to keep up with it, but we 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:47.560 did it. I've been runched through the sweet much because 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:51.600 I talked to all the clients. That was really difficult. 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:55.000 That's the one thing that Randy did not want anything 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:57.680 to do with. So I did all of that, all 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:02.600 the client contacts, and and you can imagine people are 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:08.960 talking about their children, and then we're talking to the adlaceness. 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:12.960 They were usually adolescents, but the older ones had more 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:17.040 to say about everything that happened there because they were 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:21.600 just older. They could relate about the sexual abuse that 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:25.880 wasn't pretty what they could say it. The younger ones 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:31.399 no difficult. At any point in time in the day. 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.560 I could be called day and night and I would 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:38.040 talk to them. You just had to hold their hands 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:44.120 as listen to the parents as well as the kids. 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.680 Over the past several weeks we have received number of 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.840 very serious allegations concerning both the facility out there in 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:59.120 a number of individuals involved with him. It was just 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:01.800 a from of this therapy. They were told to do it, 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:03.880 and at the time he was fourteen and a half 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.640 fifteen years old, they didn't know any better. I asked him, 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.280 why are you letting this happen? Why are you covering 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.760 up for Louis Batter He had no answer to that question. 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:20.839 Involved having and this sitution paid it off little, such 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:27.520 shock destricable place, and to do absolutely the contrary of 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:31.360 what they should have done. I'm disturbable the fact of 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.640 something He's still one on it and awake you I'm 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:41.480 Josh Stean and this is Camp hell an Awake. Since 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:45.120 the initial lawsuits against in Awaki were filed, there had 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:49.480 now amassed a total of eight different lawsuits, including up 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:53.680 to thirty one defendants associated within Awaki and over one 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.880 and thirty plaintiffs. The first to go to trial was 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.840 one involving patients from the inn Awaki North campus in 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:07.080 rock Mart for girls. Terry was one of these plaintiffs. Actually, 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.520 what happened the five girls, which I was one of them, 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.600 three of us were able to testify. They hadn't even 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:21.440 gotten to the boys yet. It was really scary testifying 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.760 in court. But at the same time it was a 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:29.000 good feeling because I had a lot of anger because 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:32.559 I felt like I had been stripped at four years 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:36.640 of my life with my parents growing up. UM, I 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.040 was robbed those years and ended up coming out with 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:45.320 really no education and UM probably more problems. So it 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:49.960 felt really good to be able to testify UM and 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:54.200 share about the manual labor that they made us do 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:58.400 day in and day out, and the abuse, the physical abuse, 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.520 the sexual abuse. Just to be able to get that 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:05.640 all out and hold them accountable was really a good 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:10.400 feeling and It helped me personally to let go and 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:17.560 move on. They were originally a good nine form of 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:21.760 girls who were in that lawsuit, and Stilt just dropped out. 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:25.120 They couldn't take it, or they were fearful, or they 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:30.159 were frightened into physicious, but nonetheless um we ended up 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:34.840 with four pat says. The proceedings that took place in 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.279 this first civil trial were shocking and showing the abuse 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:42.200 the girls had endured at the rock Mark campus. Difficult 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:46.120 as it was, the plaintifts testified and gave their stories. 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.360 In the one case that went to trial that ended 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:56.360 up four rals. They were subject across examination and almost 0:06:56.440 --> 0:07:03.840 that the sexual abuse, the denial privileges they would be denied, 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.480 told visits if they told terrupt too much about what 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:12.840 was going on, what was really going on, and then 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:17.280 come to find out that it was all true. It 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:25.000 was just astonishing. That was horrific, really, but we've prepared 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:31.000 them very well and they get well. On December nine, 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.880 after four years of working on the case and a 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:41.040 ten week trial at Fulton County Superior Court, jury awarded 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:45.240 five point two million dollars to four young women who 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:49.720 had been victims of forced labor at Anawaki. At the 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:52.920 time of the settlement, this was anheard of number for 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.320 a suit dealing with child abuse, and one that an 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.520 Awaki's insurance, who would end up paying out the amount, 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:05.320 was not expecting. They were really basically shocked. The insurance 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:09.440 to chances lawyers were shocked at what we got for 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:15.480 these four girls. They never thought for four girls they 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:21.560 would have to pay five point four millions dollars. Know 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:25.120 what's all that? It was just I wouldn't be believed, 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:29.680 but now it would. Carl Moore was subject to these 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.520 lawsuits along within a Wiki and its board of directors. 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.720 He remembers his reaction to the civil suits as they 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:41.640 began to go to trial. Oh, I just wanted to 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.720 crawl under a rock. I thought a trial was coming. 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.080 I told everybody in the investigation everything that I knew, 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.040 and I was prepared to do that in trial. And 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.120 but then there was a civil suit also, and I 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:56.760 was named in the civil suit. It's like a perfect 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.199 storm this whole thing. So I was being suit. I 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.959 didn't know if I was what was going to happen 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:06.199 to me criminally. This went on for a long time. 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:08.440 It was at least a couple of years, I think 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:13.240 before they finally got around to take him my deposition, 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:19.160 it was a really hard thing. I mean, the plaintiffs 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:23.239 needed me to testify they were suing me. The insurance 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:29.160 company was only representation I had. Because Carl had chosen 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.760 to testify against an Awaki, he would have no help 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.559 from them when it came to him being sued or 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:40.240 any other litigation he would incur. An Awaki's insurance with St. 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.160 Paul would be the only legal defense team he would have, 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.160 as he had been an employee of Anawaki at the time. 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:51.960 Antawaki was not going to do anything to help me. St. 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.440 Paul was being sued. I mean, that's where the money 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.040 was going to come from, so they had a vested 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:02.320 interest in knowing what I new. I guess I don't 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.000 think they wanted me to become a plaintiff, which is 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.800 ultimately what I did. So that's what I mean by 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.800 conflict of interest. As far as I know, the day 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:15.560 after my deposition they settled the case. So I spent 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.440 a lot of years in agony about that, I mean, 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.440 trying to get on with my life and not knowing 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:26.920 how this thing was going to work out. After in 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.199 Awaki had lost this initial suit at a cost of 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.640 over five million dollars. The desire to go to trial 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:38.120 with each of these civil cases dwindled quickly, yet again 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.520 a settlement and negotiation was in the works. For this 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:47.000 to happen, however, all one and thirty one plaintiffs would 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:51.400 need to agree to the terms of a settlement. They 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:54.599 were really right at the verdict that came in with 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.880 the girls who they saw that they had best settled 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:02.360 or jewish again, all these kinds of things would add 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:06.679 up to an awful lot of money. They didn't imagine 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:10.640 that they would get a verdict like we got. Well, 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.439 we wanted to settle and they wanted something out that 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.120 that was the bottom line, and just to show them 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:21.240 that it was fair. Who was pretty much disclosed. We 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.480 disclosed what they were going to get, and we had 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:30.240 to get them to agree what patience held out. But 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:38.240 eventually opted in the settlement and signed the relief. The 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:43.760 insurance paid at all really except for that time in jailed, 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:49.920 and they's like that. By March nine, a settlement had 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:53.199 been agreed upon by the St. Paul Insurance Company in 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.240 the thirty one former patients who had sued the organization, 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.560 a settlement, a thirty four million dollars had been awarded. 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.599 This amount would be the largest civil suit payout in 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:08.079 the history of the State of Georgia at the time. 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:12.000 This was the most important case that I've been involved in, 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.840 because at the time is settled for thirty five billion 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:21.719 dollars in today's dollars. I looked you up yesterday and 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.480 into my amazement, it would be a hundred and fifty 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:31.360 million dollars today. While the payout for this civil suit 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.800 was the largest in the state's history, how the payments 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:39.040 were split up is a little more complicated. Because Annawiki 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.240 had agreed to a settlement, this lump sum would be 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:46.080 divided between the victims with a point system that would 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.199 deduce how much a victim would be paid depending on 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:54.360 what they had been through. I remember Judgester should us 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:58.000 while your now will keep both of you because he 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:02.720 gave us our chair. The Wias did not trust Randy 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:08.240 Blackwood with it, with any thirty five billion dollars, and 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.839 they were planned about that he was going to put 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.079 it in his trust fund. However, they thought he was 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.679 going to take off to REvil or something. Not the 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:21.839 most trusting people after their experiences. In any event, I 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:27.640 relaid this to the judge and he liked to also 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.840 get Randy in on it, and he ended up being 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:36.839 in the Courts Trust Fund, so held in trust for 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.920 the plainest. Well. He had a part of formula of 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.880 a certain amount. I think it was fifty thousand to 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.880 the parents who were also joined in the lawsuits and 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.439 who went to the Statue of limitation to pass on. 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:57.680 And everyone got something, but the ones who were really 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:03.440 hurting at that in time, which that was within the statue, 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:08.560 they got much much more worm under the three hundred 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:15.319 thousand dollars. They did it on a point system, and 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:19.400 so you would get a certain amount of points depending 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.040 on how long you were there, and I think that's 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:26.400 what I benefited from because I was there for four years, 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.520 I got more points. And then you've got a certain 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.800 amount of points for what kind of sexual abuse you 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:38.240 suffered or mental abuse, and then you got points for 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:43.120 actually how many days and hours of labor, and so 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.600 it all just added up. So each person had their 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:53.160 own sets of points. And my understanding was when I 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:57.120 testified and two other girls testified, I guess the jury 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.400 awarded us each like two or three million dollars a piece, 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:06.040 but we didn't get that. Instead they settled for like 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.920 thirty two million. This is what we were told. They 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.720 saw that the three girls from the very beginning were 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:16.000 awarded two to three million dollars apiece, and they were 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.640 just getting started. So I think in a wig he 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.240 probably got scared and said we better settled now because 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:25.480 this is going to get really big. I ended up 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:30.880 getting about three hundred and sixty thousand dollars. I had 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:35.320 no idea. I just got married and had my first child. 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.600 I think it was only like twenty one or twenty 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.000 two at the time, and so I remember when we 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.000 were going to court to testify and I was trying 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.880 to explain everything to my husband. I said, I think 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.800 I might get like a thousand dollars or something like. 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.320 I had no clue as far as the money. I 0:15:56.400 --> 0:16:00.360 had no idea. So it was a shock. Some of 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.520 the victims of Anawaki would never hear about the civil 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:07.280 suit and would receive no restitution for the damage they 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.680 had endured. Here's Cheryl, a survivor of the sexual abuse 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:16.040 which took place in Rock mart I was not involved 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:20.520 in any lawsuits whatsoever. I wasn't aware of any lawsuits. 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:25.160 No one called us or told us anything about that 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.200 or the possibility of getting money. I do know that 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.600 one of I don't know if she was in my 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.960 group or in someone else's group, but one of the 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:36.720 girls her dad was a lawyer. I think that's helped 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:39.160 to spearhead it. I don't know if they just chose 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.280 to keep it small and not involve all the girls 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.280 are all the people, or they just weren't basically in 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:48.200 the capacity to deal with all of us per se. 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.880 For me, it wasn't worth it because no amount of 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:55.800 money would have changed what happened to me. It would 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.160 have been nice, you know. But I do know that 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:00.480 some of the girls that got money, they went on 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.320 to buy drugs with it, not necessarily spent it in 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:07.399 the best of ways, because it was a devastating experience 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:11.440 for a lot of people. A lot of the payouts, 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:16.000 and nobody who got to pay out is healthy and happy, 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.639 nobody that I know of. None of the girls who 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.920 got to pay out still benefit from that money. That 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:27.159 money is long gone. I think I was vaguely aware, 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:32.320 but again I was really just saying, Nope, saved my life, 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.800 didn't see nothing wrong, nothing bad, nothing wrong. And the 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.960 reason for that attitude was again, I did not want 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.959 my parents feeling like they put me in that position 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:43.480 because I know it would it would kill them with 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.440 the guilt. And if I had missed out on a 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:47.800 two million dollar settlement, I don't care as long as 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.240 they had that for the rest of their lives. Not 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:55.520 knowing what all really went on there, I wish I 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.000 hadn't known about it. If I known about it, I 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:02.159 would have been I didn't find out it until I 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:06.640 would say twenty years later. I was living a mine 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:08.960 the beach at the time, and actually a bunch of 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.480 the girls came down. It was a mini ran and 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:14.920 thebody said that there was a lawsuit and they got money, 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.680 and I was like what. And that's the first time 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.600 I learned about it, that there was even a lawsuit. 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:27.000 I found out about it after the fact. I was 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:30.359 at an Awaking longer than anybody that ever went to 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.000 an Awaki. I was a younger than anybody. Yeah, no 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.760 one said anything. I didn't get anything. I I never 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:40.040 called me. I was on the West Coast. I was 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:44.440 out of the loop. I had gotten a phone call 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:48.800 months before they had asked if there was a lawsuit, 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.240 would I be available. And at the time I had 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:56.800 a my son was a toddler and he had pediatric cancer, 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.560 and I was too busy try to make sure that 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.399 my baby lived, and he did, he survived his cancer. 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.919 But I was too busy to even think about helping 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.680 this lawsuit. And I was still conflicted with my emotions 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.240 about it because I was just a few years out 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.840 of Antiwaki and the brainwashing and the fear was still there. 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.639 I still dreamed about it. I still dream about it, 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.520 and in the dreams, they're always chasing me, trying to 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.240 get me to come back. And when I was a 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.119 young mother, I used to dream they were chasing me 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.840 and my children and trying to get us to go 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:41.879 to Antiwaki to try and help in the cases of 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.320 victims who had not been included in the lawsuits. A 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:52.080 one million dollar trust fund was established. Pat explains actually 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:58.200 settled I had of the former anawacupatients who had not 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:02.720 been included in the money that we left. I left 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.760 five hundred thousand dollars and Randy Brentwood left five hundred 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:12.720 thousand dollars to form a crust for those patients who 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:17.359 we won't representing so that could receive some money. At 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:19.639 the time, it was more than it would be today. 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:24.400 And this kid pumps up in his car and he's 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:28.200 in my driveway and he says, I don't want that 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:31.960 because I told him we have a trust fund for you, 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:38.200 and he says, I want money. He booked for rather frightening, 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:43.160 but he sure got my attention. We all did agree 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:46.560 to put a certain amount of money aside for a 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:50.639 trust fund for those that didn't get involved in the lawsuits. 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:52.960 Some people didn't know about it, some people knew about 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.879 and chose not to, but there were still a lot 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:58.000 of people out there didn't that needed help, so there 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:02.440 was a certain amount of money for that. Kelly was 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:05.800 one former patient who later received some help from the 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:10.119 trust fund. I don't know how much that care trust 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:12.560 fund was, but it was supposed to be for us 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:18.719 to get therapy and education. I also felt as if 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:22.879 Annawaki had given me an eating disorder and I wanted 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:25.480 to get help for that. They paid for me to 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:30.040 go to career assessment and a psychological assessment, and then 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.760 they paid for me to have therapy, and they paid 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:35.480 for me to go to school. So I went to 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.120 school to be a surgical tag and then they gave 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:41.720 me a three thousand dollar check. And it was near 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:45.200 the end. It was my understanding that the fund was 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:48.919 coming to an end, that the funds were going away 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:53.639 and the board was dissolving. I do not believe what 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:57.480 I got from the trust fund was retribution for what 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:02.320 I went through at Antiwaki. And I don't believe that 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:07.960 even the people who got large sums of money, no 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.480 matter how much money you get, it doesn't rebuild what 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:17.880 was broken in us. It doesn't. I asked Pat edel 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:21.240 Kind if she felt justice was brought to the victims 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:26.440 from an Awaki. It's difficult to say, because it's really 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:31.760 difficult to take that those kinds of experiences that they suffered. 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:36.359 But in some small way it did. It shows me 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:40.720 do it gave him something to starve on to recuperate, 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:46.320 So in that sense it did. But have lived what 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.680 they lived through, No one would trade money for that. 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:54.680 An Awake He changed my life. I had no idea 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:58.440 but I would be doing stuff like this, But just 0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:01.640 is where I ms it up. And I had decided 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:05.880 to go out with Felo practitioner, and I never knew 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:08.680 I'd be doing something like this, but I feel that 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:12.320 I have done something that matters in this world. I 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:16.720 feel that I have helped people, and that is the 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:21.440 greatest feeling I've ever had and be able to give. 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:28.680 You know, yes, I became wealthy, However, money is not 0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:34.080 the only thing that satisfies this feeling of having done 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:49.520 well from my self, of human beings matters m M. 0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:59.119 While the civil suit against an awake he was taking place, 0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:02.640 Louis Petter had been serving out his sentence of eight 0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:06.040 years in a Georgia prison. Petter would go on to 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:10.719 serve seven just shy of his full sentence. Petter had 0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:15.080 been tried for parole in n and was initially denied 0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:19.520 after a flood of calls were made to the parole board. However, 0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:26.480 on January nine, at the age of seventy six, Louis 0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:30.639 Petter was granted parole with the stipulation that he remained 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:34.000 on probation and that he not returned to Douglas County 0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:40.360 or have any contact with miners. By nine, Petter attempted 0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:42.639 to appeal the ruling that he not be allowed to 0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:46.080 return to Douglas County due to the fact that his 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:49.960 probation officer had been moved to Douglas County. The appeal 0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:54.760 was upheld and considered moot. The governor of Georgia at 0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:58.840 the time was Roy Barnes, a former attorney. Barnes had 0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:02.240 represented in a week Key during litigation over its status 0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:05.879 as a nonprofit in the nineteen eighties. It is this 0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:09.840 same year that the long outdated sodomy law in Georgia 0:25:10.080 --> 0:25:14.000 was overturned. Due to this overturning of the sodomy law, 0:25:14.600 --> 0:25:17.400 Louis Petter would no longer have to have his name 0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:21.960 on a sex offender's list. Petter would soon after attempt 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:25.359 to overturn his conviction as sodomy was no longer against 0:25:25.400 --> 0:25:29.119 the law. His reason for doing so was that he 0:25:29.240 --> 0:25:32.639 could quote travel out of the country to see family 0:25:33.240 --> 0:25:38.560 and visit property he owns in Mexico. For the last 0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:41.320 years of his life, Louis Petter would live in a 0:25:41.400 --> 0:25:45.359 small ranch home in Lawrenceville, Georgia, with his wife, Mabel, 0:25:45.560 --> 0:25:49.240 and two German shepherds. Petter would go on to live 0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:53.560 another nearly twenty years as a freeman. Former patient Kelly 0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:58.359 Lewis says that after reconnecting with other Innawaki survivors. She 0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:03.800 went on what she called Petters Death Watch. When we 0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:07.399 began the first it was message boards back in the 0:26:07.720 --> 0:26:11.360 eighties for Anawaki survivors, and we would get on these 0:26:11.440 --> 0:26:14.399 message boards and we would yell and scream at each other, 0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:17.800 but we also had very close bonds to each other. 0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:21.639 We went through trauma together. So when you as a 0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:24.000 child go through trauma, you bond with the people who 0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:27.000 help you through it. And I am still very very 0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:29.280 close with a lot of the people who went to 0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:31.560 Anna Wake with me. I mean to the point of 0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:34.480 where I see them once a month, twice a month. 0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:37.320 They come to my house and eat food and and 0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:40.199 we go and do events together and and that kind 0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:44.320 of thing. I'm very close to them. And I remember 0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:50.119 at one point people arguing after Mabel Petters death. I 0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:55.720 found Mabel Petters obituary online and I posted it. I 0:26:55.880 --> 0:26:58.000 can't remember at the time if we had a Facebook 0:26:58.000 --> 0:27:00.080 group or if it was a message board. By I 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:03.760 think it was a Facebook group. We had graduated from 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:08.040 uh you know, the dial ups, squealing too real Internet, 0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:11.520 and we were on Facebook and I remember announcing and 0:27:11.680 --> 0:27:15.280 posting the obituary and it said she was survived by 0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:19.120 her husband, Louis Petter. So it was at that time 0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:21.359 that I went on death watch, and that's what I 0:27:21.480 --> 0:27:25.080 ended up calling it. I went to obituary dot Com 0:27:25.400 --> 0:27:28.240 and I had them send me a notice every month 0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:32.440 to tell me if there had been any Petters who 0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:37.359 had an obituary. And for years I didn't trust it. 0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:39.880 So I would actually drive by his house to see 0:27:39.920 --> 0:27:44.040 if he still lived there. And eventually he didn't live 0:27:44.080 --> 0:27:48.639 at his house anymore. He I guess was probably and 0:27:48.760 --> 0:27:51.680 I guess this probably in some sort of nursing home. 0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:54.760 He was a very old man when he died. Now, 0:27:55.200 --> 0:27:57.720 the first time I saw his house, I was shocked 0:27:58.119 --> 0:28:01.480 because it was just a brick aunt's house. I expected 0:28:02.520 --> 0:28:06.760 that he lived in this big, beautiful, fancy house, but 0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:09.960 he didn't. So I remember going by his house. I 0:28:10.000 --> 0:28:11.920 would drive by his house to see if he still 0:28:12.000 --> 0:28:15.239 lived there, and I could tell that he lived there 0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:18.480 because of the dogs there, Because he had German shepherds 0:28:18.800 --> 0:28:21.520 with him at all times. It was known that no 0:28:21.680 --> 0:28:24.399 matter where he went, those dogs went with him. They 0:28:24.440 --> 0:28:27.439 were trained German shepherds and they were with him all 0:28:27.520 --> 0:28:29.520 the time. So when I would drive by his house, 0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:33.440 if I saw the dogs in the yard, I knew 0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:37.280 that he was still living there. And then the dogs 0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:41.320 weren't there anymore, and I started panicking because I didn't 0:28:41.400 --> 0:28:44.040 know how to trace him anymore, and I, you know, 0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:46.800 would express this on the Facebook page or to other 0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:50.400 people who went to Anna Waki and I ended up 0:28:50.440 --> 0:28:54.200 going to where Mabel was buried to see the gravestone, 0:28:55.200 --> 0:28:59.120 and I saw that his marker was next to hers, 0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:02.400 and it had a birth date on it, but the 0:29:02.560 --> 0:29:06.720 death date was still open. And that cemetery actually was 0:29:06.840 --> 0:29:09.040 not too far from the house that I lived in 0:29:09.200 --> 0:29:13.080 in Atlanta for eleven years. So for eleven years, at 0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:16.280 least once a month I would go by the cemetery 0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:20.520 to see if they added a death date onto it, 0:29:21.640 --> 0:29:25.000 because I didn't trust that they would do an obituary, 0:29:25.200 --> 0:29:32.400 which they did not. On January, Padder passed away at 0:29:32.440 --> 0:29:37.320 the age of one day, I went and the death 0:29:37.440 --> 0:29:41.000 date was there, and I took pictures of it. I 0:29:41.080 --> 0:29:45.080 remember shaking, and I remember having to steady my hand 0:29:45.160 --> 0:29:49.240 to take pictures of it. He hurt so many people. 0:29:51.040 --> 0:29:53.960 I was so glad he was dead. I felt like 0:29:55.360 --> 0:29:59.440 the balance between good and evil on this planet shifted 0:30:00.760 --> 0:30:03.920 when he died, and I was I was glad to 0:30:04.040 --> 0:30:09.200 bring that news to people who had been abused by 0:30:09.440 --> 0:30:15.960 him and affected their lives changed because of him. And 0:30:16.080 --> 0:30:21.520 I posted the pictures, and I wouldn't tell them at first. 0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:24.560 I made people work for it, because I'm not going 0:30:24.600 --> 0:30:27.440 to be the one that causes somebody to go and 0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:33.160 desecrate a grave or a graveyard. I don't remember telling 0:30:33.240 --> 0:30:36.280 them what graveyard it was, but that but that it 0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:39.320 had happened. And I posted the pictures, and I knew 0:30:39.360 --> 0:30:41.440 that people could find out if they were smart enough 0:30:41.600 --> 0:30:45.480 to look the way I always looked. I was glad 0:30:45.560 --> 0:30:47.720 that he went to prison for the short period of 0:30:47.800 --> 0:30:51.320 time that he went to prison, but it infuriated me. 0:30:52.080 --> 0:30:54.560 Only the good die young, and that's why he lived forever. 0:30:55.800 --> 0:30:59.680 So that was death Watch, and I was glad when 0:30:59.720 --> 0:31:03.080 it was over. And I remember my husband that night 0:31:04.360 --> 0:31:09.680 holding me and telling me it's okay now, because it 0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:14.880 was okay. He's gone, and and now our story is 0:31:14.920 --> 0:31:17.960 being told and we won't be forgotten anymore. And I'm 0:31:18.000 --> 0:31:22.120 glad of that. We deserve for people to know, and 0:31:22.240 --> 0:31:27.480 not only do we deserve it, but future children deserve 0:31:28.080 --> 0:31:31.800 for people to know that these kinds of situations where 0:31:31.840 --> 0:31:38.880 they isolate children are dangerous. They're dangerous, and humans can't 0:31:38.920 --> 0:31:44.080 be trusted in situations of power and money. They just 0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:50.160 can't be trusted. In the end, the only time served 0:31:50.280 --> 0:31:53.480 by any of the staff from Anawaki was the seven 0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:57.320 years Louis Petter spent in prison, and an additional three 0:31:57.440 --> 0:32:02.240 years served by Jim Wamack Walmac was eventually released due 0:32:02.280 --> 0:32:06.840 to a statute of limitations ruling against dis charges. Louis 0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:10.520 Petter and family had turned over eight hundred thousand dollars 0:32:10.600 --> 0:32:13.920 of property to Douglas County in the settlement, with over 0:32:14.080 --> 0:32:16.840 five million dollars worth of real estate left in the 0:32:16.920 --> 0:32:21.680 control of Anawaki Incorporated, it's nonprofit branch of the organization. 0:32:23.200 --> 0:32:27.920 By January of seven, the Hospital Corporation of America, or 0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:30.920 the h c A, agreed to take over day to 0:32:31.000 --> 0:32:35.760 day operations of an Awaki's three campuses. This deal would 0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:38.840 prevent the Department of Human Resources from taking away an 0:32:38.920 --> 0:32:43.640 Awake's license to operate as a medical facility for a 0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:47.440 few years. The campuses would go by the new and Awake, 0:32:48.240 --> 0:32:51.960 eventually changing hands again and dropping any name connecting it 0:32:52.080 --> 0:32:56.720 to the scandal. Much still remains unknown about where the 0:32:56.800 --> 0:33:00.600 payment for the Anawaki takeover ended up, or who profited 0:33:00.680 --> 0:33:03.480 from such items as the sale of the Carabell campus 0:33:03.800 --> 0:33:08.680 or the marina. Since Antawaki's demise, a whole industry of 0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:13.520 quote emotional growth schools has been established. Many of these 0:33:13.640 --> 0:33:16.240 seem to have taken pages out of an Awake's playbook, 0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:20.880 from solitary confinement to force labor, and some of which 0:33:21.120 --> 0:33:25.320 have also seen charges of abuse, both sexual and physical. 0:33:26.440 --> 0:33:30.200 The amount of oversight given to these organizations is often lacking, 0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:34.600 varying from state to state, with no federal organization to 0:33:34.680 --> 0:33:39.520 regulate them. Journalist Albert Edgin, who covered the Anawaki case 0:33:39.640 --> 0:33:42.840 for over seven years, says he is still concerned that 0:33:43.000 --> 0:33:46.360 some of the former abusers from Antawaki may still be 0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:51.960 involved in child treatment. The most troubling thing to me 0:33:52.040 --> 0:33:55.479 about the implications, long term implications, is that there are 0:33:55.720 --> 0:34:00.880 still people who were abusing patients at an Awakey who 0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:05.440 are in the health care systems around the South, who 0:34:05.480 --> 0:34:10.239 are providing treatment for troubled children or people. And we 0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:13.680 know that because Florida had made a list of abusers 0:34:14.040 --> 0:34:16.800 that were elsewhere they weren't able to do anything about it, 0:34:16.960 --> 0:34:20.080 or they didn't do anything about it. There were at 0:34:20.120 --> 0:34:25.759 the time attempts, particularly in Florida, to review the way 0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:30.239 the state managed places like an Awake. I think that's 0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:34.440 one piece of evidence that it had at least the 0:34:34.480 --> 0:34:37.120 positive effect of getting the attention of the bureaucrats long 0:34:37.200 --> 0:34:39.840 enough where they could issue a report that maybe some 0:34:39.920 --> 0:34:42.879 people have paid attention to through the years. I think 0:34:43.200 --> 0:34:50.439 in terms of the American culture that Annawaki is one 0:34:50.520 --> 0:34:54.920 of the many things that woke the country up in 0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:58.800 the seventies and eighties to the kinds of manipulation and 0:34:58.920 --> 0:35:03.239 abuse that on institutions were going through. That was a 0:35:03.400 --> 0:35:07.880 very gradual process, and now it's become something that we 0:35:08.040 --> 0:35:11.080 read about the papers every day. It's not just institutions 0:35:11.160 --> 0:35:14.359 like an Awake. He has institutions like Hollywood, and we've 0:35:14.440 --> 0:35:19.120 become because of little things like an Awake. He became 0:35:19.200 --> 0:35:23.000 exposed and people became aware than we are more aware 0:35:23.000 --> 0:35:27.200 of this kind of thing today. For many in Awaki survivors, 0:35:27.680 --> 0:35:30.080 coming to grips with what they went through has been 0:35:30.120 --> 0:35:34.000 a year's long process. Many of them have connected with 0:35:34.120 --> 0:35:37.399 each other over the years through the Internet and later 0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:41.680 at Facebook group which was created specifically for former patients. 0:35:42.440 --> 0:35:45.919 They will still have reunions from time to time. Many 0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:48.440 would attempt to track down their own records from the 0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:51.360 time they spent it in Awaki. A few I spoke 0:35:51.440 --> 0:35:53.680 with were able to do so up to a point 0:35:54.440 --> 0:35:58.640 past that point, though, according to the facility, all records 0:35:58.680 --> 0:36:02.680 from an Awake were distry. Foyd Here's survivor Chris McKnight. 0:36:03.280 --> 0:36:06.319 He is currently working on a book about his experience 0:36:06.400 --> 0:36:11.160 at an Awaki. There was a window of opportunity for 0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:15.040 us to get our medical records. I found out this information. 0:36:15.200 --> 0:36:18.120 We have a chat group, an Internet chet group that 0:36:18.280 --> 0:36:20.920 only an Awaki students can be a part of, and 0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:24.840 we vet you know, we know what questions to ask someone. 0:36:25.360 --> 0:36:27.400 You know, we've had group leaders that tried to get in, 0:36:28.040 --> 0:36:31.560 you know, like no, a couple of bad ones too. 0:36:32.080 --> 0:36:33.600 You know, we know the question is to ask that 0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:37.040 to tell if someone actually has been an Aniwaki. You know, 0:36:37.560 --> 0:36:39.759 what's the crest mean, what was your laundry number? What 0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:42.040 was the name of your first school group? Who is 0:36:42.239 --> 0:36:45.200 you know, we know the questions to ask. So anyway, 0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:47.760 it was found out that we could get our medical records. 0:36:47.800 --> 0:36:50.400 I want to say this is two thousand three. I 0:36:50.480 --> 0:36:53.319 think two thousand four. Actually, basically you had to um 0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:57.800 just sign a release and pay the copying costs. I 0:36:57.880 --> 0:37:01.719 think it was seven dollars. Because I stayed twice, I 0:37:01.800 --> 0:37:05.640 had to pay fourteen. I had four pages of paperwork 0:37:05.680 --> 0:37:07.960 to copy, so I signed the release center to him. 0:37:08.880 --> 0:37:12.600 Every day you were at Annawaki, there is something written 0:37:12.640 --> 0:37:15.520 about you. Most days there are two entries, some days 0:37:15.560 --> 0:37:17.640 three if you saw a doctor and maybe a nurse 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:21.960 that day, and to be somebody group leader. My second day. 0:37:22.080 --> 0:37:26.520 Reading my records, every day there's probably three entries from people, 0:37:27.040 --> 0:37:30.840 sometimes four. So they up the ANNIE against the insurance 0:37:30.880 --> 0:37:34.920 company later on about entries into your records. So a 0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:37.040 lot of us were able to get our records. And 0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:40.600 then we had a reunion in two thousand five, and 0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:44.640 right after the reunion a bunch of people came to 0:37:44.719 --> 0:37:47.960 this reunion. They accommodated us at Douglasville. It was the 0:37:48.000 --> 0:37:50.720 first time I had been back to that campus since 0:37:50.800 --> 0:37:53.480 I had left, and it was it was very healium 0:37:53.520 --> 0:37:58.840 for me, but it was also really heavy, bizarre. It 0:37:59.040 --> 0:38:03.400 was emotionally ranching. It's just I couldn't eat for days, 0:38:04.040 --> 0:38:07.040 but I needed to do that. It was painful, but 0:38:07.120 --> 0:38:09.960 I went back and I'm glad I did. So they 0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:13.560 got a whole run glutton of people asking requesting the records. 0:38:13.640 --> 0:38:16.600 You know, I had gotten my records right before the reunion, 0:38:17.000 --> 0:38:20.640 so because all these people on site requested their records, 0:38:20.960 --> 0:38:23.960 they had a whole mess of papal requesting. And then 0:38:24.080 --> 0:38:26.640 shortly after that, within I want to say two or 0:38:26.760 --> 0:38:29.760 three months, it became known that there was a fire 0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:34.879 at the warehouse where they were keeping our records. Had 0:38:34.960 --> 0:38:38.719 been an employee of Annawaki. I heard he was hired 0:38:38.760 --> 0:38:41.560 around eighty three and had actually worked for an Awaki. 0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.960 So there was anybody that was still working there from 0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:50.120 prior that probably knew any Shenanigans or something. He probably did, 0:38:50.960 --> 0:38:52.719 but he said that there was a fire in the 0:38:52.760 --> 0:38:56.400 warehouse and that no one could access the records anymore. 0:38:56.480 --> 0:38:59.640 They were gone, And he said that the warehouse was offsite, 0:39:00.640 --> 0:39:05.480 was close to the downtown Atlanta area, but wouldn't stay where. 0:39:05.840 --> 0:39:09.160 No one knew an address when you sent for your records, 0:39:09.239 --> 0:39:12.880 that it was too old Annawaki Douglas Phil address. So 0:39:13.560 --> 0:39:15.920 I don't know if our records were actually offside or not. 0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:20.200 It could have been fabricated. And because the whole bunch 0:39:20.239 --> 0:39:23.480 of people at once asked to see the records, my 0:39:23.640 --> 0:39:26.960 suspicion is that there really wasn't a fire and they 0:39:27.080 --> 0:39:30.320 just don't want to release any more records, not necessarily 0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:35.160 for liability reasons, maybe for liability reasons. Maybe they're afraid 0:39:35.440 --> 0:39:38.080 of kids that were there. Later on that there's still 0:39:38.120 --> 0:39:41.439 a statue limitations that they can't get from out under. 0:39:41.560 --> 0:39:46.359 I I don't know, but it seemed very very suspicious. 0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:49.000 I highly doubt that there was to fire, and if 0:39:49.040 --> 0:39:52.759 there was, somebody said it on purpose. It's just too 0:39:52.840 --> 0:39:57.880 many weird coincidences about it all. Either they got rid 0:39:57.920 --> 0:40:01.160 of those records or there somewhere, and I got a 0:40:01.239 --> 0:40:04.320 feeling that they're not very far from the Aniuaki campus. 0:40:04.680 --> 0:40:07.680 I really doubt that they would have hauled all that 0:40:07.920 --> 0:40:11.879 records thousands of kids there. If my records was one 0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:16.279 file box. You're talking about thousands of file boxes. You know, 0:40:16.480 --> 0:40:18.800 it's a lot of manpower. That's a lot of records 0:40:18.840 --> 0:40:38.480 to move. When I first began to look into the 0:40:38.520 --> 0:40:42.000 Innawaki case, I had no idea how far this story 0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:45.600 went or where it would take me. Two years of 0:40:45.719 --> 0:40:48.560 trying to track down the many facets of its history 0:40:49.160 --> 0:40:51.880 has taken me on a journey all around the Southeast, 0:40:52.360 --> 0:40:56.280 speaking with dozens of survivors. The effects of an Awaki 0:40:56.400 --> 0:40:59.600 are still seen today in the hundreds of former patients 0:40:59.680 --> 0:41:02.520 still dealing with the backlash from the abuse they endured. 0:41:03.600 --> 0:41:06.359 Many survivors that I have talked to have long term 0:41:06.480 --> 0:41:09.520 health issues due to what they've been through, not to 0:41:09.640 --> 0:41:13.080 mention the years of therapy and counseling it takes to 0:41:13.160 --> 0:41:16.960 heal from something like that. Even with everything which the 0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:20.680 patients of an Awaki went through, many still say while 0:41:20.760 --> 0:41:26.280 they were abused, the program did have some benefits. I learned, 0:41:27.400 --> 0:41:29.800 I learned how to be, I learned how not to be. 0:41:30.400 --> 0:41:32.600 I learned everything I thought I was supposed to learn 0:41:33.040 --> 0:41:34.600 to be a man and to go out into the 0:41:34.680 --> 0:41:38.040 world and do my thing. You know, tell me a 0:41:38.080 --> 0:41:44.200 whole lot. There are positive ways that Antawaki affected me. 0:41:44.960 --> 0:41:47.560 I built a lot of inner strength because of the 0:41:47.640 --> 0:41:50.800 struggles and the hard work that we had to do 0:41:50.960 --> 0:41:57.560 and everything. But there was also very negative effects that 0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:00.680 it had on me because I was robbed of my 0:42:00.960 --> 0:42:06.200 education and I was robbed of age fourteen to eighteen, 0:42:07.120 --> 0:42:10.520 of being a teenager and live in a normal life. 0:42:11.440 --> 0:42:13.880 You know, I felt like I was in jail for 0:42:14.040 --> 0:42:17.759 four years working. I mean, it was like a punishment, 0:42:18.360 --> 0:42:21.080 and the worst part is it didn't help me, and 0:42:21.160 --> 0:42:27.160 I still suffer from depression to this day. For other survivors, 0:42:27.680 --> 0:42:30.440 their history with an Awaki still comes up in their 0:42:30.520 --> 0:42:33.920 day to day life. Friends and family's reaction to this 0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:39.359 are not always the most understanding. I would have to say, 0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:43.360 having to explain to people. Look, I went to this 0:42:43.480 --> 0:42:47.399 boys school. There's a lot of sexual most conduct, there's 0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:51.919 a lot of force laborers. You get to know someone 0:42:52.040 --> 0:42:54.400 you want to know, Oh, where do you go to school? 0:42:54.640 --> 0:42:59.640 And that's the hardest thing. I still got that way 0:42:59.640 --> 0:43:02.520 in my childer. I'm still carrying it around and I 0:43:02.600 --> 0:43:04.719 still have to expose it every once in a while. 0:43:06.840 --> 0:43:10.200 It's still really hard to talk about because I felt 0:43:10.239 --> 0:43:13.879 like I've been punished for it several times by people 0:43:13.960 --> 0:43:16.880 that I trusted, a group groups of my peers. It 0:43:17.000 --> 0:43:18.920 was kind of kind of rough. I know that I 0:43:19.040 --> 0:43:22.560 was a kid, I was a teenager, and I know 0:43:22.719 --> 0:43:24.960 that I didn't do anything to deserve it. I know 0:43:25.200 --> 0:43:29.279 all those things, but I also think that for a 0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:31.040 place that was supposed to try to teach us to 0:43:31.560 --> 0:43:36.000 learn how to communicate and deal with people on a 0:43:36.120 --> 0:43:39.400 daily basis and and the social aspect of it, it 0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:41.520 really messed a lot of us up. It made a 0:43:41.600 --> 0:43:44.080 lot of us angry, and it made a lot of 0:43:44.239 --> 0:43:48.839 us uh. I feel like in relationships. I know I've 0:43:48.880 --> 0:43:50.680 heard this from a lot of people that went there. 0:43:51.440 --> 0:43:54.960 Is they struggle because everything is a confrontation. Everything is 0:43:55.280 --> 0:43:57.640 we need to sit down and talk and we need 0:43:57.719 --> 0:43:59.880 to you know, figure this out, and we need to 0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:02.359 hit this head on. And in a lot of ways, 0:44:02.400 --> 0:44:05.520 I feel embarrassed to talk about it. It's hard to 0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:08.880 talk to my kids, my parents, my siblings about this. 0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:12.520 There's so many details, and it's so complicated. It's so 0:44:12.840 --> 0:44:16.399 complicated that it's almost just easier just to not think 0:44:16.440 --> 0:44:19.640 about it. It helped my communication skills in a lot 0:44:19.719 --> 0:44:22.600 of ways. I've had to work really hard to undo 0:44:22.719 --> 0:44:26.840 damage that happened to me there, and that happened in 0:44:27.440 --> 0:44:30.400 the ways that they taught us, you know, to communicate. 0:44:31.040 --> 0:44:34.200 I mean, they had us teenagers policing each other, which 0:44:34.360 --> 0:44:38.040 never should happen because teenagers our brains weren't developed. We 0:44:38.120 --> 0:44:40.680 didn't know what we were doing. I have grandkids that 0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:44.200 are pushing on the age of when I went to Anawaki, 0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:46.840 and I have three daughters. I would never want that 0:44:46.960 --> 0:44:50.480 to ever ever happen to them. I just hope that 0:44:50.960 --> 0:44:53.160 something comes from this. I hope that as a group, 0:44:53.680 --> 0:44:56.160 those of us that are survivors that have had, oh 0:44:56.239 --> 0:44:59.480 my gosh, such a huge gamut range of experiences. Some 0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:02.000 people laim it saved their lives, but it also messed 0:45:02.080 --> 0:45:04.320 up their life. That's kind of where I am. I 0:45:04.400 --> 0:45:08.080 think while in a week He's program may have had 0:45:08.160 --> 0:45:11.960 some benefits for its patients, the harm for many greatly 0:45:12.040 --> 0:45:16.120 outweighed the good. I've had a lot of problems diagnosed 0:45:16.200 --> 0:45:21.719 with bipolar PTSD in and out of psyche hospitals. I 0:45:21.800 --> 0:45:23.520 didn't deal with it for a long time. I pushed 0:45:23.600 --> 0:45:26.800 it down for a long time. And then when I 0:45:26.880 --> 0:45:30.879 started reading these reports coming up and what really happened there, 0:45:30.960 --> 0:45:34.160 and feeling sorry for all of my friends I had 0:45:34.239 --> 0:45:37.240 to go through it, you know, it just really started 0:45:37.280 --> 0:45:40.440 to affect me the fact that I really didn't have 0:45:40.640 --> 0:45:44.279 any guidance in my life except our antiwiki because my 0:45:44.400 --> 0:45:48.480 dad was not a guide for me. You know. Once 0:45:48.520 --> 0:45:51.120 I got in an Antiwaki, he still wasn't there to 0:45:51.160 --> 0:45:53.920 guide me. So I just had to figure it out 0:45:53.960 --> 0:45:57.640 on myself. Started with a little job, became a bigger job, 0:45:57.719 --> 0:46:01.680 became a bigger job. But uh, it has caused me 0:46:03.000 --> 0:46:11.440 definite mental problems. I think that some people have managed 0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:17.120 to cope and deal with their experience at ant Waky 0:46:17.680 --> 0:46:20.960 more so than others, and I think that that's to 0:46:21.040 --> 0:46:25.920 be expected because we're all different human beings. We all 0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:32.160 deal with situations in a different manner. So I know 0:46:32.400 --> 0:46:36.640 for myself and some of the people that I know 0:46:37.280 --> 0:46:40.360 have had a very hard time dealing with all of 0:46:40.440 --> 0:46:45.640 the pain and the things that they've witnessed and experienced there. 0:46:46.640 --> 0:46:51.440 Um it has absolutely changed my life. It changed my body, 0:46:52.040 --> 0:46:55.560 It changed the entire course of my life having been there. 0:46:55.600 --> 0:46:58.279 So I think that there is a tremendous amount of 0:46:58.400 --> 0:47:03.040 unrest and I'm hoping that by doing this podcast that 0:47:03.920 --> 0:47:09.000 it will bring me some closure. Some of the long 0:47:09.080 --> 0:47:14.520 lasting results from being Anna Waki is the aggressive confrontation. 0:47:15.719 --> 0:47:19.880 I feel like learning to confront people the way that 0:47:20.000 --> 0:47:24.160 I did has affected my relationships, not only with partners, 0:47:24.200 --> 0:47:28.040 in life, but with my children, we always had to 0:47:28.600 --> 0:47:30.920 sit and talk out our feelings, and we always had 0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:33.840 even if they were angry feelings, which a lot of 0:47:33.880 --> 0:47:36.879 people would say, oh, that's a good thing, Well it isn't. 0:47:36.960 --> 0:47:40.520 When you are screaming and yelling. You know, it's good 0:47:40.560 --> 0:47:43.759 to talk out your feelings, but it isn't. It isn't 0:47:43.800 --> 0:47:46.960 okay to scream and yell. It isn't okay to scream 0:47:47.000 --> 0:47:50.360 and yell at children, or to encourage children to scream 0:47:50.400 --> 0:47:54.239 and yell at each other. I do want to say 0:47:54.320 --> 0:47:57.600 that I'm I'm grateful that the story is being told. 0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:00.440 I think a lot of people who went to Awakey 0:48:00.719 --> 0:48:04.160 are grateful. They may not agree with exactly how the 0:48:04.239 --> 0:48:07.800 story will be told, because everybody's story is different. And 0:48:08.000 --> 0:48:12.320 Awake both saved and ruined my life, and that's a 0:48:12.480 --> 0:48:17.839 difficult thing to explain to people. I most likely would 0:48:17.880 --> 0:48:21.960 not have been a successful adult. Without the work ethic 0:48:22.080 --> 0:48:25.360 I gained from getting up early every day and working 0:48:25.440 --> 0:48:29.080 every day and knowing the importance of work and knowing 0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:33.480 the feeling of accomplishing my goals, I wouldn't be the 0:48:33.560 --> 0:48:37.120 person I am today. But I also wouldn't be broken. 0:48:37.600 --> 0:48:41.319 There are parts of me that are broken, that are 0:48:41.400 --> 0:48:45.400 stuck in the woods of an Awaki, that won't probably 0:48:45.480 --> 0:48:48.280 ever come out. And I have to remind myself sometimes 0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:51.000 that you're not in the woods anymore. You're out, you're 0:48:51.000 --> 0:48:54.320 an adult, you're grown, you're past all of that. But 0:48:55.000 --> 0:48:57.800 it rears its head and you have to reckon with it. 0:48:58.719 --> 0:49:02.480 And a lot of people will say either or either 0:49:02.560 --> 0:49:05.560 Anna Wicky saved their life or ruin their life, and 0:49:05.680 --> 0:49:11.760 for me it's both. For many victims of childhood abuse 0:49:12.360 --> 0:49:15.279 or people that were in the vicinity of it, survivor's 0:49:15.320 --> 0:49:18.760 guilt is a feeling that often haunts them for years. 0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:24.719 I still live with survivor's guilt. I still deal with 0:49:26.440 --> 0:49:32.120 group members that For example, staff member Mr Goldberg was 0:49:32.239 --> 0:49:35.200 taking a student down the road what we called the 0:49:35.239 --> 0:49:39.520 boulevard there south campus. We were coming in taking showers, 0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:45.000 walking through the breezeway, and we saw his car and 0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:48.799 the student leaving with them, and I got so frustrated, 0:49:49.040 --> 0:49:52.759 and so I was just angry because it's told one 0:49:52.800 --> 0:49:55.920 of them. I told my group member George, I said, George, 0:49:56.400 --> 0:49:58.480 look at such and such. He gets to ride home 0:49:58.560 --> 0:50:03.319 with Mr Goldberg almost every night and we're stuck here 0:50:03.800 --> 0:50:07.880 taking showers, getting eaten up by mosquitoes and dealing with 0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:11.640 all this crap. And I had animosity towards that student 0:50:12.239 --> 0:50:16.360 until later on in life I realized what was happening 0:50:16.400 --> 0:50:19.120 to him. Now, obviously I wasn't there wasn't a fly 0:50:19.280 --> 0:50:22.000 on the wall. But if it looks like a zebra 0:50:22.520 --> 0:50:25.840 and it walks and talks and smells and looks and 0:50:26.000 --> 0:50:29.560 everything else, then it's probably a zebra. And after what 0:50:29.719 --> 0:50:32.680 had happened to me, I would say that that staff 0:50:32.760 --> 0:50:37.840 member was getting abused nightly, and I still live with that. 0:50:38.480 --> 0:50:42.000 I still have bad dreams of being in that passenger 0:50:42.160 --> 0:50:44.600 van but running Shotgun. That was a big thing for us, 0:50:44.680 --> 0:50:48.880 and Antawaki Crest members got to ride choking, and I 0:50:49.080 --> 0:50:52.320 still have dreams to this day of being in that 0:50:52.520 --> 0:50:59.120 van writing Shotgun and group members being in the back crying, screaming, 0:51:00.680 --> 0:51:03.239 and me turning around and seeing no one, you know, 0:51:03.400 --> 0:51:06.560 knowing there's no one driving and we're just going down 0:51:06.600 --> 0:51:10.360 a road real fast and may not be able to 0:51:10.480 --> 0:51:14.640 do anything. And I know now from therapy and group 0:51:14.840 --> 0:51:18.520 and working with counselors and dealing with my own stuff 0:51:18.560 --> 0:51:23.000 and investigating on my own that it's survivors guilt. I 0:51:23.040 --> 0:51:28.360 don't know if that'll ever leave me. Some former patients 0:51:28.480 --> 0:51:31.200 still have yet to try to unravel the damage done 0:51:31.239 --> 0:51:35.000 to them. Since my interviews with the survivors of an Awaki, 0:51:35.560 --> 0:51:38.480 some have reached back out to me saying they finally 0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:41.239 decided to go to therapy after all these years after 0:51:41.360 --> 0:51:45.040 telling their story, are finally decided to tell their parents 0:51:45.280 --> 0:51:50.000 what actually happened to them. I don't think I realized 0:51:50.160 --> 0:51:54.319 until recently what an effect Annawaki has had all my life. 0:51:54.800 --> 0:51:57.239 You know, from the trauma that that I went through 0:51:57.280 --> 0:52:01.480 there that I'm not able to to this day. I mean, 0:52:01.560 --> 0:52:03.920 like I said, I'm doing fine, but I know that 0:52:04.640 --> 0:52:07.279 going through therapy would have been really helpful. But they 0:52:08.000 --> 0:52:10.040 they kind of took that away from me. So that's 0:52:10.120 --> 0:52:12.480 one thing. But you know, my wife, when I told 0:52:12.520 --> 0:52:15.759 her about this podcast and everything, she was really happy 0:52:15.800 --> 0:52:17.960 about it because, you know, she's like, I think it 0:52:18.040 --> 0:52:20.600 could beat therapeutic for you to to actually kind of 0:52:20.640 --> 0:52:22.920 talk about this stuff. Because she's the only one that 0:52:23.040 --> 0:52:25.960 I've I've really told the whole thing too, and that 0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:28.759 was just a couple of years ago. Um didn't even 0:52:28.760 --> 0:52:30.279 tell her that much until a couple of years ago. 0:52:32.640 --> 0:52:36.280 Many survivors found solace in each other through the network 0:52:36.320 --> 0:52:39.160 of former patients who have connected through the Internet and 0:52:39.280 --> 0:52:43.600 reunions over the years. Some even managed to find love. 0:52:45.120 --> 0:52:47.360 I'm very close to a lot of them as adults, 0:52:48.000 --> 0:52:51.360 and I think we all share that same mentality of 0:52:51.560 --> 0:52:54.359 we have to discuss this, we have to talk this out. 0:52:56.040 --> 0:52:58.480 We have one Facebook you can go to that say 0:52:58.840 --> 0:53:02.120 anytime and there's something. Yeah, it's a place for jokes, 0:53:02.160 --> 0:53:04.680 it's a place for fun, it's it's a place for seriousness. 0:53:05.760 --> 0:53:10.840 It's a place for planning reunions and many reunions, and 0:53:11.000 --> 0:53:14.600 it's a place that everybody feels so safe that they 0:53:14.640 --> 0:53:17.640 can talk about any single thing that's going on with 0:53:17.719 --> 0:53:22.000 them that they can't talk with anybody else. Yeah. I know. 0:53:22.080 --> 0:53:23.680 I've had to reach out a couple of times. What 0:53:23.800 --> 0:53:27.640 I do, I'm in a situation, and I get tons 0:53:27.719 --> 0:53:32.919 and tons of feedback. It's a survivor site. A little 0:53:33.000 --> 0:53:37.880 over twelve years ago, I finally decided to do some research. 0:53:37.960 --> 0:53:40.160 I guess at that point Google had just come out, 0:53:41.040 --> 0:53:45.480 and I decided to just Google and away heat to 0:53:45.600 --> 0:53:51.080 see what popped up, if anything, and I was really 0:53:51.280 --> 0:53:56.120 surprised by some of the information that I read regarding 0:53:56.200 --> 0:54:00.919 the lawsuits, regarding you know, a lot of the things 0:54:01.000 --> 0:54:04.600 that I was not privy to. In the initial lawsuit, 0:54:05.320 --> 0:54:13.160 there were a compilation of stories that different survivors told, 0:54:13.880 --> 0:54:17.080 a brief synopsis of whatever it was that they wanted 0:54:17.200 --> 0:54:23.920 to say. And I read my husband's story and it 0:54:24.160 --> 0:54:29.000 touched me so much. Even then that had brought tears 0:54:29.120 --> 0:54:34.040 to my eyes. And once I joined this group, a 0:54:34.200 --> 0:54:39.000 situation came up and he ended up private messaging me 0:54:40.000 --> 0:54:45.640 and we just started talking and just had so much 0:54:45.719 --> 0:54:52.120 in common, either through our childhood experiences or our experiences there. 0:54:52.760 --> 0:54:56.840 We actually lived at different states. The initial part of 0:54:56.880 --> 0:55:02.520 our relationship was just through email and calls, and eventually 0:55:02.880 --> 0:55:06.160 we lived in the same town and and several years 0:55:06.239 --> 0:55:09.240 later we got married. We've actually been together for about 0:55:09.320 --> 0:55:14.440 twelve years. While the Anawaki treatment center is no longer 0:55:14.560 --> 0:55:18.400 in operation, there are still many long term stay treatment 0:55:18.480 --> 0:55:22.279 centers for youth all over the country. It is now 0:55:22.400 --> 0:55:25.960 more important than ever that parents know exactly where they 0:55:26.080 --> 0:55:28.719 choose to send their kids and what to look for 0:55:29.080 --> 0:55:32.680 if they do choose to go that route. Former an 0:55:32.760 --> 0:55:36.600 Awaki counselor Carl Moore had some words of advice for 0:55:36.719 --> 0:55:40.920 both survivors of abuse such as himself, and parents who 0:55:41.000 --> 0:55:43.640 may be thinking about sending their children to a program 0:55:44.040 --> 0:55:49.680 such as ANAWAKI. I would say to anybody who had 0:55:50.239 --> 0:55:54.960 been to an Awake that it's uh. I still was 0:55:55.040 --> 0:55:57.480 thinking about this the other night. I know a lot 0:55:57.520 --> 0:56:00.480 of people think of themselves in terms of surve divers, 0:56:01.760 --> 0:56:05.320 and it's funny and Awake you had. The name of 0:56:05.400 --> 0:56:10.040 the football team was the Warriors. So that's how I think, Oh, 0:56:10.239 --> 0:56:13.759 not as survivors, but as warriors. And that's a good 0:56:13.840 --> 0:56:20.279 thing to take something that would break you and take 0:56:20.400 --> 0:56:23.160 that thing and make it a part of rebuilding your life. 0:56:24.400 --> 0:56:27.800 People that matter to me, we're compassionate with me about this. 0:56:28.920 --> 0:56:30.720 That's the way I like to be with other people. 0:56:31.520 --> 0:56:33.719 It took me a long long time to get to 0:56:33.800 --> 0:56:38.400 where I could do that. You have strengths that nobody 0:56:38.440 --> 0:56:41.319 will tell you about because of the things you've been through. 0:56:42.960 --> 0:56:46.080 You're not going to be easily fooled. You can go 0:56:46.280 --> 0:56:51.960 too far with that. You have to learn it, but 0:56:52.160 --> 0:56:57.760 it's there and it's a strength. There's the saying pass 0:56:57.840 --> 0:57:01.879 it on or pass it back, pass it back, don't 0:57:01.920 --> 0:57:05.520 pass it on. Is there anything else you would say 0:57:05.600 --> 0:57:07.920 to a parent who's thinking about sending one of their 0:57:08.000 --> 0:57:12.239 children to his treatment center? Find out everything you can 0:57:12.360 --> 0:57:17.360 about it before you do it, and again, trust your instincts. 0:57:19.360 --> 0:57:24.280 I think that's it. I think there's nothing more difficult 0:57:24.360 --> 0:57:26.520 for a parent than trying to deal with something like 0:57:26.680 --> 0:57:30.120 this with their child. I don't think you can be 0:57:30.280 --> 0:57:33.880 any more vulnerable than when you give someone your child. 0:57:35.040 --> 0:57:37.600 Looking at it from the point of being a parent, 0:57:38.520 --> 0:57:41.320 if someone is going to restrict your access to your kid, 0:57:41.480 --> 0:57:44.200 I think that's a no. You're gonna have to work 0:57:44.280 --> 0:57:49.120 that out somehow. There are some absolute declaration that no, 0:57:49.400 --> 0:57:52.800 you're just not gonna be able to communicate with your child, 0:57:53.880 --> 0:57:57.400 and there's always exceptions. If there's an exception to that, 0:57:57.600 --> 0:58:00.400 then there there had better be a I'm kind of 0:58:00.480 --> 0:58:05.320 advocate in place, because you know, I can hear people saying, well, 0:58:05.360 --> 0:58:09.440 the parents are part of the problem, Well, then make 0:58:09.480 --> 0:58:13.080 um part of the solution. If not, you you know, 0:58:13.760 --> 0:58:17.480 maybe it's not the right fit. And trust your instincts. 0:58:18.760 --> 0:58:21.240 When when you think something wrong, you've got to look 0:58:21.280 --> 0:58:26.280 into it. Thank you all for listening to this podcast. 0:58:27.120 --> 0:58:29.240 I hope that it is in some way help the 0:58:29.320 --> 0:58:32.480 survivors of an Awaki come to terms with their past 0:58:33.200 --> 0:58:35.800 and help bring light to this sometimes hard to speak 0:58:35.880 --> 0:58:40.280 of issue of child abuse. The reaction to this podcast 0:58:40.400 --> 0:58:42.760 has continued to surprise me as we worked on it. 0:58:43.800 --> 0:58:46.240 If you would like to see some of the correspondence 0:58:46.640 --> 0:58:49.960 and other pictures and stories about in Awaki, you can 0:58:50.080 --> 0:58:53.720 check out the Camp hell in Awake podcast discussion group 0:58:53.920 --> 0:58:57.600 on Facebook. It has quickly become a place for survivors 0:58:57.680 --> 0:59:02.000 and listeners alike to share and discuss subjects from the podcast. 0:59:03.040 --> 0:59:05.760 If you have enjoyed listening, or just want to tell 0:59:05.840 --> 0:59:09.760 us what you think, please consider leaving a review. We 0:59:09.920 --> 0:59:12.520 always can learn from any feedback you'd like to give. 0:59:13.560 --> 0:59:15.560 I would also like to give a special thanks to 0:59:15.720 --> 0:59:19.560 Rima il k Ali, one of our producers, who was 0:59:19.720 --> 0:59:23.720 especially helpful in finishing out this season. Thank you again, Rema. 0:59:24.440 --> 0:59:27.360 If you're looking for another good true crime podcast, I 0:59:27.360 --> 0:59:30.520 would suggest checking out Algorithm, a show one of my 0:59:30.600 --> 0:59:34.200 co producers, ben Kiebrick, is currently making. It deals with 0:59:34.280 --> 0:59:39.400 the tools used by authorities to detect serial killers. Until 0:59:39.560 --> 0:59:47.840 next time, Camp Hell Anawaki was created and hosted by 0:59:47.920 --> 0:59:52.080 Josh Thane, with producer Miranda Hawkins and executive producers Alex 0:59:52.160 --> 0:59:55.800 Williams and Matt Frederick. The soundtrack was written and performed 0:59:55.920 --> 0:59:59.920 by Josh Thane and Adrian Barry. Archival footage provided by 1:00:00.200 --> 1:00:04.280 ws B and CBS News. Find us on Instagram at 1:00:04.400 --> 1:00:07.960 camp hell pod. That's c A M p h E 1:00:08.360 --> 1:00:11.880 L L p O D. Educate yourself about the issue 1:00:11.920 --> 1:00:14.240 of child abuse and things that you should look for 1:00:14.480 --> 1:00:17.760 at the Darkness to Light website d too well dot org. 1:00:18.040 --> 1:00:22.800 That's d the number two l dot org. Camp hell 1:00:22.960 --> 1:00:26.040 Anawaki is a production of I Heart Radio. For more 1:00:26.160 --> 1:00:29.200 podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 1:00:29.320 --> 1:00:32.440 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.