1
00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:04,520
Speaker 1: No, I don't know.

2
00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:04,960
Speaker 2: I know.

3
00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,760
Speaker 3: Ninth Planet audio con we're overlanding.

4
00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,320
Speaker 4: I don't know if you're busy, but we're basically trying

5
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,479
Speaker 4: to get them to change the mascot and in trouble.

6
00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:22,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if you got a flyer.

7
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:22,960
Speaker 5: I did.

8
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:24,520
Speaker 1: Oh, well, here you go.

9
00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,200
Speaker 4: We're we're gonna be at Boom County tonight trying to

10
00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:28,720
Speaker 4: convince them to change the mascot.

11
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,840
Speaker 1: Finally, you know, we're just trying to kick a little horn,

12
00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 1: says or at least post it. Send it to your friend,

13
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,240
Speaker 1: anybody you know who's around. That'd be great.

14
00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,960
Speaker 4: The news is coming and we're in town going to

15
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,440
Speaker 4: the site thing or the school bay. Yeah, and you know,

16
00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,159
Speaker 4: student teams and they didn't call off, so it's time.

17
00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:48,479
Speaker 1: To remind them who.

18
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,600
Speaker 4: Sorry, that last episode was a bummer, but surely you

19
00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,080
Speaker 4: didn't think that was enough to keep me down. I

20
00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,680
Speaker 4: ask again, have you met me? Well, only one episode

21
00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,840
Speaker 4: is transpired between the last time you heard from me.

22
00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:00,440
Speaker 1: Now.

23
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,520
Speaker 4: The actual timeline is that it's been six months since

24
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,040
Speaker 4: we were last in Florence, six months since we were

25
00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,240
Speaker 4: blown off by the school board and the school based

26
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,679
Speaker 4: Decision Making Council and I'd like to report here on

27
00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,200
Speaker 4: our last episode that in that time there's been a

28
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,160
Speaker 4: lot of headway made, but the reality is that we're

29
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,160
Speaker 4: both exactly where we were six months ago and light

30
00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:24,400
Speaker 4: years ahead. We've been keeping busy with interviews, with fact finding,

31
00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,400
Speaker 4: and with outreach, exactly the stuff you've been listening to

32
00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,039
Speaker 4: in the last few episodes, and maybe hopefully the board

33
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,360
Speaker 4: has been busy too with the committee Principal Black claimed

34
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,160
Speaker 4: had been formed. But listener, there's no actual evidence as

35
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,120
Speaker 4: of yet, no announcements, no surveys, nothing we could point

36
00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,479
Speaker 4: a finger at and say yes, progress. And so it

37
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,800
Speaker 4: was time to visit Florence again, to speak and to

38
00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,200
Speaker 4: build a movement. And when I saw that the June

39
00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,960
Speaker 4: School based Decision Making Council meeting for Boone County High

40
00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,360
Speaker 4: School was falling on Juneteenth, well I knew there was

41
00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:02,120
Speaker 4: only one place to start. Florence, Kentucky second Annual Juneteenth Celebration.

42
00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:06,880
Speaker 4: Hearda you were reached out to by Miss Juneteenth yesterday.

43
00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,440
Speaker 1: How did it go? What did she What does she

44
00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 1: have to say?

45
00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,600
Speaker 4: I guess she is like she's aware of the podcast.

46
00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's aware of her thought process. What I do

47
00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:20,840
Speaker 1: can you be a dance judge. Oh yeah, you gotta

48
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:22,720
Speaker 1: go do that. You gotta go do a job well.

49
00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,639
Speaker 4: Juneteenth has been celebrated for over one hundred and fifty years.

50
00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,080
Speaker 4: It has only been a federal holiday for four In

51
00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 4: case it's new to you for some reason, Juneteenth commemorates

52
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,680
Speaker 4: on June nineteenth, eighteen sixty five, when enslaved people in

53
00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,079
Speaker 4: Texas learned that they had been freed fully two years earlier,

54
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,280
Speaker 4: when the Emancipation Proclamation made slavery illegal. It's a bittersweet

55
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 4: holiday that reminds us all of Maya Angelou's famous quote,

56
00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,680
Speaker 4: none of us can be free until everybody is free.

57
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,680
Speaker 4: I personally didn't learn about Juneteenth as a holiday until college,

58
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,120
Speaker 4: in keeping with the holiday's tradition of being the last

59
00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,160
Speaker 4: to know, though it seems that truly the last to

60
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,239
Speaker 4: know were the administrators at Boone County High School, who

61
00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,760
Speaker 4: scheduled a meeting on this national holiday, and so we

62
00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,760
Speaker 4: thought we'd bring the message to them. Do you know

63
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,280
Speaker 4: anybody who's around Boone County tonight at six o'clock, the

64
00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,119
Speaker 4: news will be the for putting them on notice.

65
00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:12,600
Speaker 1: Get free.

66
00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,520
Speaker 4: I went to Boone County. We're really, what year seventy six? Okay,

67
00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:19,040
Speaker 4: how were the Confederate flags?

68
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:19,200
Speaker 1: Then?

69
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,280
Speaker 4: Oh they were Confederate, they were doing it.

70
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,560
Speaker 3: It's also wild that like the governor's declared a holiday,

71
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,280
Speaker 3: we have a national holiday, and they.

72
00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,799
Speaker 1: Didn't move the meeting, right, doesn't look good for them.

73
00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,200
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, well for our Yeah, the narrative actually.

74
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,920
Speaker 4: Seems to be pretty honest and pretty honest. They seem

75
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,240
Speaker 4: committed to the confederacy bit. So we'll see, we'll see

76
00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,839
Speaker 4: if we can fix it. The juneteen celebration wasn't held

77
00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 4: in downtown Florence, but instead up a winding road at

78
00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,640
Speaker 4: a nature center in town. There were a couple of

79
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,200
Speaker 4: times that we were sure we'd taken a wrong turn,

80
00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,320
Speaker 4: but eventually we found it. There were tents selling homemade

81
00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,680
Speaker 4: products and food, a snow cone truck, info boots for

82
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:04,280
Speaker 4: per regressive causes, and also the police. Music was playing.

83
00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,880
Speaker 4: Kids were everywhere, and while it wasn't exactly comfortable, extreme

84
00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,520
Speaker 4: heat and humidity pegged the temperature over one hundred degrees.

85
00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,200
Speaker 4: It was joyous. We arrived armed with smiles and a

86
00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,599
Speaker 4: pile of flyers encouraging people to join us at the

87
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,919
Speaker 4: school based decision making council meeting that night, I planned

88
00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,799
Speaker 4: to speak again, even after my last demoralizing attempt. I figured,

89
00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,680
Speaker 4: with a bigger crowd, some local news, and the spirit

90
00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,840
Speaker 4: of Juneteenth on my side, maybe this time would be different.

91
00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,520
Speaker 4: It's a million degrees, it's the middle of summer, thankfully

92
00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,480
Speaker 4: no cicadas, and I'm honestly just hoping we can get like,

93
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,120
Speaker 4: we can talk to some cool people, get a sense

94
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 4: of how much people really care about this, and maybe

95
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:42,479
Speaker 4: get a snow cone.

96
00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:49,960
Speaker 1: The meeting. Yeah, we have a flyer for you all.

97
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,159
Speaker 4: My favorite progressives in the area were there, Amber Hoffman,

98
00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,880
Speaker 4: our local activist mom, Leslie Chambers, city council member and

99
00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,839
Speaker 4: parent one of my least favorite people were there, namely

100
00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:01,960
Speaker 4: that black district parent that told me that I was

101
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,240
Speaker 4: wrong off the record in episode one. But other than that,

102
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,880
Speaker 4: it was wonderful meeting the kind of people who wanted

103
00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 4: to celebrate Juneteenth in my small town. Yeah, we are

104
00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,159
Speaker 4: here trying to change the mascot of Boone County.

105
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, Yeah, it was where I'm from.

106
00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,120
Speaker 3: It was the West Hopkins Rebels.

107
00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:25,200
Speaker 1: Okay, wait where in Kentucky. It was Nebo Kentucky. You

108
00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:30,720
Speaker 1: know that little small did they change there? So they

109
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,120
Speaker 1: changed theirs, but Boone County, it was it was not

110
00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:34,720
Speaker 1: an easy thing. Yeah, they thought.

111
00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:35,760
Speaker 6: There's a lot of.

112
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to diplomatic.

113
00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:40,280
Speaker 2: There's a lot of push back.

114
00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:41,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

115
00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,479
Speaker 4: A lot of people were committed to the cause on

116
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 4: both sides.

117
00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,919
Speaker 1: But ultimately it seems like justice one did there the

118
00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,160
Speaker 1: storms getting you there. What do you feel like has

119
00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:52,960
Speaker 1: been your biggest opposition?

120
00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,320
Speaker 4: Oh wow, you know, objectively, I think the school I

121
00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,280
Speaker 4: think there's a lot of bureaucracy, and you know, though

122
00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,479
Speaker 4: it's something that's been brought up for years, they're just

123
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,600
Speaker 4: very much like, well, we have to set a process,

124
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,960
Speaker 4: to set a process and have a meeting, and I'm like,

125
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,679
Speaker 4: it's been it's actually not that hard. And we've spoken

126
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,000
Speaker 4: to principals who've made the change at their school like nationwide,

127
00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:13,960
Speaker 4: and you.

128
00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,080
Speaker 1: Know, we have this blueprint. We keep offering it to them.

129
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,240
Speaker 5: They're just not a local school decision or is it

130
00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:19,279
Speaker 5: a school board decision.

131
00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:20,679
Speaker 1: Well, it's kind of both.

132
00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:22,560
Speaker 4: The school board has tried to skirt it, but we

133
00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,040
Speaker 4: talked to the state and the State's like, that's absolutely

134
00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:25,240
Speaker 4: in the.

135
00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,400
Speaker 1: School board's purview. So we're kind of in like a.

136
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,279
Speaker 4: Unique space because it seems like they're just pushing us

137
00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:32,800
Speaker 4: back and forth, like talk to the board, talk to

138
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:33,119
Speaker 4: the school.

139
00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,280
Speaker 1: Talk to the school, talk to the board. So we're

140
00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:36,080
Speaker 1: gonna talk to both.

141
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,039
Speaker 4: And so here we are back in Florence one last

142
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,160
Speaker 4: time on Juneteenth to make what the late Great John

143
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:45,799
Speaker 4: Lewis called good trouble.

144
00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,640
Speaker 1: I was a lady rebel, like, what does that even need?

145
00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:51,839
Speaker 7: The Boone County Rebels will stay.

146
00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 3: The Boone County Rebels with the image of.

147
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,200
Speaker 1: Right here in black and white and friends.

148
00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,159
Speaker 2: In my end bigger than a flag or mascot. Anytime

149
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,599
Speaker 2: you're trying to mess with tradition, you had.

150
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:16,160
Speaker 8: To be ready for a serious backlash.

151
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,360
Speaker 4: From Ninth Planet Audio. I'm Akuila Hughes and this is

152
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:24,000
Speaker 4: Rebel Spirit Episode ten. Stay Free. The Juneteenth Festival was fascinating.

153
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,960
Speaker 4: It was small, mostly people who knew each other from

154
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,880
Speaker 4: sharing a common cause on issues like SB one fifty,

155
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,160
Speaker 4: the transgender student bill that passed when we first arrived.

156
00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,320
Speaker 4: It was good talking to some new people, especially the

157
00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:41,240
Speaker 4: black people of Florence, about what we've been trying to do. No,

158
00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,040
Speaker 4: they got rid of the flag, but they a gard

159
00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,840
Speaker 4: of the Mass, but the team is still the Rebels,

160
00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,040
Speaker 4: still named for the Confederacy, still celebrating all that.

161
00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 1: So if you want to come, or if you know anybody.

162
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:55,560
Speaker 4: Who's ready tonight, six o'clock just down the street, just

163
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 4: show up. I mean, if you want to, if you

164
00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,120
Speaker 4: feel compelled to speak, it would be helpful. But honestly,

165
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,520
Speaker 4: just having people to you know, show the school like

166
00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,320
Speaker 4: we care about this. We're black, we live here, like

167
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,040
Speaker 4: just it's Juneteenth, Like, first of all, you shouldn't be

168
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,080
Speaker 4: having this meeting, but secondly.

169
00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:10,119
Speaker 1: Like why are you here?

170
00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 4: Right, it's a holiday, but also like it is very

171
00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,600
Speaker 4: strange that, like, you know, for celebrating freedom, let's get free.

172
00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:23,760
Speaker 1: You guys lost the war. Listen, I had a telem exactly.

173
00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's one hundred and fifty nine years later, But

174
00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,320
Speaker 4: happy junetee, you're free.

175
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,080
Speaker 1: That's basically what we're here to tell them. So do

176
00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,160
Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts? Do well?

177
00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,440
Speaker 4: You could check it out. The trailer came out yesterday.

178
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,319
Speaker 4: It's making some waves around here. If you just type

179
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:38,959
Speaker 4: in Rebel Spirits to come up. It's a picture of

180
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,240
Speaker 4: a biscuit with googly eyes on top of showing up

181
00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,040
Speaker 4: for this meeting ready to speak. We also released the

182
00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,079
Speaker 4: trailer for the podcast before we arrived. We were hoping

183
00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,360
Speaker 4: they'd see it for what it was. That people are

184
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,360
Speaker 4: now going to start looking at the school. I mean,

185
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,640
Speaker 4: now is a great time to do something in The

186
00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,080
Speaker 4: Cincinnati Inquirer publish an article about the podcast, giving us

187
00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,360
Speaker 4: a glimpse of the reactions to expect, both for the

188
00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:06,720
Speaker 4: podcast to release and the ensuing discourse. I think, unsurprisingly,

189
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,160
Speaker 4: there are a lot of very loud people who are

190
00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,240
Speaker 4: in support of the mascot, who are saying it's based

191
00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,480
Speaker 4: on rebel without a cause and she's just the real racist,

192
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:25,680
Speaker 4: and you know she wants to change history, and you

193
00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,400
Speaker 4: know it's funny, Like I really didn't think of it

194
00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,200
Speaker 4: still upset me so much, but it actually really does.

195
00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,000
Speaker 4: Like these are people who have their face and name

196
00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,440
Speaker 4: next to Like it's not like Twitter right where they

197
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,560
Speaker 4: are anonymous and you can just be like these are trolls.

198
00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,880
Speaker 4: It's like these are people with first name, last name,

199
00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,920
Speaker 4: photos of them and their family, some of them identifying

200
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,960
Speaker 4: themselves as teachers at Boone County being like the students

201
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,160
Speaker 4: don't care about this, don't You're just making a controversy

202
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,720
Speaker 4: where there isn't one, and you know, rehashing lives they

203
00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,560
Speaker 4: were told. And I just feel like it's especially hurtful

204
00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,800
Speaker 4: when it's people like that, because it's like, you're an educator,

205
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,480
Speaker 4: you should care about what's true. You should also like

206
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,079
Speaker 4: maybe question if your students feel comfortable speaking to you

207
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,600
Speaker 4: about like what they care about, because I'm like, I'm

208
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,200
Speaker 4: sure you didn't ask, so how would you even know?

209
00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,199
Speaker 1: But it's just been like ough.

210
00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,240
Speaker 4: This morning, I woke up to like a friend of

211
00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,440
Speaker 4: mine sharing her comment on it on Instagram and just

212
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:24,720
Speaker 4: being like, there's a.

213
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,160
Speaker 1: Lot of racists in these comments.

214
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,480
Speaker 4: We knew we were going to get into it when

215
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,080
Speaker 4: the trailer dropped. We are here for a healthy discussion

216
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,960
Speaker 4: since both facts and logic are on our side, but

217
00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,000
Speaker 4: one of the comments cut deep. Never heard Sean Alexander

218
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,440
Speaker 4: complain about it, or principal George Floyd who played in

219
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:41,080
Speaker 4: the NFO.

220
00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,160
Speaker 1: But this chick, she's upset with it.

221
00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:49,080
Speaker 4: We have racist people hiding behind black faces to be like, yeah,

222
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,960
Speaker 4: well they said it's fine, so you know they're black feelings,

223
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:52,640
Speaker 4: strump yours.

224
00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:56,120
Speaker 1: It's like you don't even know them, you don't even know.

225
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,240
Speaker 4: That not every comment was in support of the Confederacy,

226
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,559
Speaker 4: though Sin said something that I really appreciated. I'll just

227
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,080
Speaker 4: read their common in full. They said, anyone trying to

228
00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,480
Speaker 4: defend this mascot has got to be the saddest person

229
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,640
Speaker 4: in the Tri state area. If you're clinging on to

230
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,199
Speaker 4: high school nostalgia over a dumb racist caricature in its

231
00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,600
Speaker 4: remaining remnants, push on, clearly, your life is fine if

232
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,120
Speaker 4: that's your biggest concern here. Boone County has huge forests

233
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,480
Speaker 4: and parks. Be the Rangers of the Grizzlies or something

234
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,800
Speaker 4: simple like the Stallions or whatever. And twelve people liked

235
00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:34,280
Speaker 4: it so much, Right, Boone County Rangers. That's cute. And

236
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,240
Speaker 4: so this was it. We'd gotten our snow cones, we

237
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,760
Speaker 4: handed out flyers, we'd released a trailer, and already had

238
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,800
Speaker 4: a glimpse of the controversy we'd be causing. Soon there

239
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 4: was only one thing left to do, to return once

240
00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:53,200
Speaker 4: again to Boone County High School to speak. Despite six

241
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,320
Speaker 4: months of effort, I still felt uncertain about what more

242
00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,000
Speaker 4: I could say beyond expressing my disappointment. Facts hadn't changed

243
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,720
Speaker 4: their minds, resources hadn't made a difference, and even my

244
00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,200
Speaker 4: consistent presence hadn't been enough to convince them that public

245
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,839
Speaker 4: action was necessary. The only message I could bring was

246
00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,320
Speaker 4: that soon it wouldn't be just me to answer slash

247
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,360
Speaker 4: not answer to. They'd have to face the growing scrutiny

248
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,320
Speaker 4: of the public and the press. My final presentation to

249
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,400
Speaker 4: the school when we come back. When I made my

250
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,240
Speaker 4: appeal to the school based decision making counsel in December,

251
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,200
Speaker 4: I spoke for two rousing minutes. The minutes of that

252
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,760
Speaker 4: meeting are brief and clinical. Akila Hughes voiced her concern

253
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,200
Speaker 4: regarding the absence of a BHS mascot. Miss Hughes stated

254
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,719
Speaker 4: in twenty seventeen, the mascot was removed and needs to

255
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,000
Speaker 4: be replaced by a mascot that would be non shaming

256
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 4: and would serve our diverse student body. Miss Hughes offered

257
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:44,880
Speaker 4: her resources.

258
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:46,320
Speaker 1: Unquote.

259
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,120
Speaker 4: This mirrors the minutes from July twenty twenty when Spencer

260
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,120
Speaker 4: presented his petition to quote, disuse the rebel name and

261
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,800
Speaker 4: find a new mascot. Unquote. There's a famous saying that

262
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,439
Speaker 4: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different

263
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,560
Speaker 4: results is the definition of madness. So this time we're

264
00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,559
Speaker 4: going to take a different approach. This time I was

265
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:11,120
Speaker 4: putting them unnoticed. Great, I'm going to stand all right,

266
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,240
Speaker 4: let me know when I are you ready. Hi, I'm

267
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,120
Speaker 4: Akhela Hughes. I'm a BCCHS alum from the class of

268
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:18,920
Speaker 4: two thousand and five.

269
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:20,439
Speaker 1: Happy June teenth.

270
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,840
Speaker 4: By the way, it's one hundred and fifty nine years late,

271
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:24,480
Speaker 4: but I'm happy to share the good news with you.

272
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 1: The war is over, the rebels lost.

273
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 4: Black people are now equal, and you can do away

274
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:31,880
Speaker 4: with your team name and move into the future.

275
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:33,480
Speaker 1: And what better time.

276
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,840
Speaker 4: Next year is the seventieth anniversary of Boone County High School.

277
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,160
Speaker 4: It's also the seventieth anniversary of Brown Versus Board of Education,

278
00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:44,640
Speaker 4: which integrated American public schools. It's certainly not too soon

279
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,400
Speaker 4: to try to create an inclusive environment at BCCHS. Over

280
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,840
Speaker 4: the past year, I've tried desperately to work with you

281
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,160
Speaker 4: to make the transition away from the rebels with input

282
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,920
Speaker 4: from the student and parent community. I was here in

283
00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,000
Speaker 4: September homecoming week to speak with you, but you push

284
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,480
Speaker 4: off to the board. I came back and spoke to

285
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,480
Speaker 4: this very council in December with resources to share. You

286
00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,840
Speaker 4: told us you needed to form a committee to form

287
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:13,480
Speaker 4: a process, more bureaucracy. I'm here looking for some progress now.

288
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,319
Speaker 4: I mean as educators, you're familiar with check ins and benchmarks,

289
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,200
Speaker 4: so you've had six months. Where are we on this?

290
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,960
Speaker 4: This is a crisis in leadership. We spoke with the

291
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 4: principle of Denver South in Colorado, who was instrumental in

292
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,200
Speaker 4: changing their mascot from the Rebels to the Ravens.

293
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 1: He said that as a.

294
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,360
Speaker 4: Leader, you have to choose which hill you want to

295
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,520
Speaker 4: die on and guess what. They changed the mascot and

296
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,600
Speaker 4: everyone loves it. The school community is more engaged than ever.

297
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,880
Speaker 4: There's another Colorado high school that hasn't changed from the

298
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,160
Speaker 4: rebels yet though Columbine. Maybe you've heard of it. The

299
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,920
Speaker 4: values you spout need to need action to support them.

300
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,960
Speaker 4: We've been nice, available, agreeable, and invested. So on September third,

301
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,440
Speaker 4: the Rebel Spirit podcast will be released to the world

302
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,800
Speaker 4: and they will see exactly what we've been up against

303
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,880
Speaker 4: in trying to bring progress opportunity to you. You still

304
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,280
Speaker 4: have time to be on the right side of this,

305
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,320
Speaker 4: but you're going to have to actually do something. We

306
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,480
Speaker 4: aren't going anywhere. This issue isn't going anywhere. See you

307
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:15,520
Speaker 4: in September, and then Amber Hoffman, who is one of

308
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,920
Speaker 4: our first allies on the ground in Florence as well.

309
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 5: Obviously I'm here in support of Aciullite, whos and what

310
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,120
Speaker 5: she's doing. But I live in Boone County. I grew

311
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,840
Speaker 5: up in Boone County. I currently raise two children in

312
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,280
Speaker 5: Boone County, and I understand that you guys are trying

313
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,600
Speaker 5: to move forward. I've seen the progress that you've tried

314
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,920
Speaker 5: to make with you getting rid of the mascot, trying

315
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,440
Speaker 5: to change the name. I see the inclusivity stickers all

316
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,320
Speaker 5: over every door in this room. I was a district ambassador,

317
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 5: so I've been in and out of this building several

318
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,840
Speaker 5: times for that as well. I sit on the s

319
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,680
Speaker 5: BDM at Camp Bern's Middle School right now, so I

320
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,160
Speaker 5: understand the awesome responsibility that you guys have and what

321
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,160
Speaker 5: you're doing. But I also want to share something with

322
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,280
Speaker 5: you from the perspective of not just a parent, as

323
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,280
Speaker 5: a Boom County resident community member. There's two things you

324
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,640
Speaker 5: should know. The first one is that the state of

325
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 5: Kentucky takes in the fourth highest level of immigrants in

326
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,000
Speaker 5: the country where there are only three other states that

327
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,920
Speaker 5: take more immigrants than we do, and that's Texas, New York,

328
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:22,480
Speaker 5: and California. Okay, so we have a growing and diverse population, and.

329
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:22,920
Speaker 1: You know it.

330
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,280
Speaker 5: We are getting those students in every day. I know

331
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,200
Speaker 5: that one of our middle schools got over thirty students

332
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,360
Speaker 5: from Guatemala in like a one month period of time.

333
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,840
Speaker 5: So this is our opportunity to show those families that

334
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 5: we care about people of color and what matters to them.

335
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,960
Speaker 5: She is an alumni, she has been here before.

336
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:44,360
Speaker 1: You know her, But.

337
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,320
Speaker 5: I'm also going to live here and I'm going to

338
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 5: be here, and when she's not here, we will be

339
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,640
Speaker 5: back on her behalf. Because this is important to me,

340
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:54,720
Speaker 5: it should be very important to you as well. And

341
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,640
Speaker 5: I know that you guys care about the kids. I've

342
00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,040
Speaker 5: worked with educators and individuals that take the time to

343
00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 5: do this kind of work, and I know that you're

344
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,679
Speaker 5: here because you care about the students. This is an

345
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,600
Speaker 5: opportunity to give students of color the chance to understand

346
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,479
Speaker 5: that not only do you care about them, that this

347
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,000
Speaker 5: may not be an issue that's touching them currently, but

348
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 5: you understand in the long run it will in high school,

349
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 5: she may not have cared necessarily that her rebel mascot

350
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:24,479
Speaker 5: was a former Confederate soldier, but now as an adult,

351
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,919
Speaker 5: she can look back and be ashamed of that. And

352
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,119
Speaker 5: you have the opportunity to change that for the students

353
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,399
Speaker 5: that are currently going to school here. So I encourage

354
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,520
Speaker 5: you to do that, and again we will be back.

355
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:34,320
Speaker 1: Thank you.

356
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,840
Speaker 4: Short of just playing every episode of Rebel Spirit for

357
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,960
Speaker 4: these decision makers in some kind of hostage takeover situation,

358
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,560
Speaker 4: I can't think of how to state our cause and

359
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,399
Speaker 4: reasoning more plainly. But I remember, especially after speaking with

360
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,000
Speaker 4: Ronda Lavaldo in episode five about changing the names of

361
00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 4: Native American branded sports teams, that there's only so much

362
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,480
Speaker 4: explaining you can do before you realize it's not about

363
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,520
Speaker 4: making it clearer, it's about whether they're are ready to

364
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,440
Speaker 4: listen to actually hear it. And sometimes no matter how

365
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,240
Speaker 4: plain you make it, you don't see the light turn

366
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,840
Speaker 4: on behind their eyes. And so with no one at

367
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,400
Speaker 4: the school willing to engage, we're left, once again whispering

368
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:19,200
Speaker 4: in a hallway. Okay, so she said that they are

369
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:26,439
Speaker 4: there is tact the scenes should the first never have.

370
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,879
Speaker 4: I mean, they're just completely I think, Okay, they.

371
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:32,400
Speaker 1: Have interesting it's just.

372
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:43,480
Speaker 4: Committee, situation committee. Yeah right, probably so I'm i gotta

373
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,399
Speaker 4: be honest. I have no faith in these people. I

374
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 4: think the only way that this will change is when

375
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,440
Speaker 4: they're shamed publicly. And I think that this podcast, with

376
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 4: the history of it, with the other schools that have

377
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,240
Speaker 4: been able to make the change, with Cincinnati media killing

378
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,480
Speaker 4: it at length, I think that it's going to be

379
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 4: it's going to just force their hand because they'll take this.

380
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,640
Speaker 4: I mean, come on, I graduated twenty years ago.

381
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,879
Speaker 5: You have to keep stoking the fire, truly, like it

382
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,120
Speaker 5: won't get done if you don't.

383
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,680
Speaker 4: And that was it. It was time to say goodbye,

384
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 4: time to head home. I just want to say bye

385
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 4: because I'm gonna I love you guys, Thank you for

386
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:24,400
Speaker 4: her handing.

387
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 1: Kids and everything.

388
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,639
Speaker 4: We really appreciate you. Leslie, have a good rest of

389
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:34,919
Speaker 4: your juneteen and stay free.

390
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 1: That's all we can do here.

391
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,879
Speaker 4: It's true, it's all we could do here without a

392
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 4: mass movement, which seems unlikely given the current political landscape

393
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 4: and the real threat of violence from those who disagree.

394
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,200
Speaker 4: We have to turn to the court of public opinion.

395
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 4: It's disheartening to think that when they say one voice

396
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:58,400
Speaker 4: can make a difference, they didn't mean mine. And so

397
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,439
Speaker 4: we wind up here in the tenth episode, having not

398
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,640
Speaker 4: delivered on the change we were hoping to make. When

399
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 4: we embarked on the journey of making this podcast more

400
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 4: than a year ago, it's hard not to feel discouraged,

401
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 4: and so I wanted to talk with people who had

402
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 4: faced adversity and had come out the other side of

403
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 4: it to find out how they did it in order

404
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,440
Speaker 4: to figure out how maybe I could do it too.

405
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 4: My first stop was someone who has seen a lot

406
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,879
Speaker 4: more history than me to help get some perspective.

407
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,960
Speaker 7: It was not a happy experience for anybody involve, because

408
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,959
Speaker 7: the government of Mississippi divided the court order to integrate,

409
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,920
Speaker 7: and it created nearly a month back and forth at

410
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,880
Speaker 7: the start of the semester in nineteen sixty two.

411
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 4: This is Curtis Wilkie, legendary journalist who at eighty three

412
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,439
Speaker 4: has spent more than sixty years writing about civil rights,

413
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 4: politics and the American South. If anyone has some perspective

414
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 4: on change, it's Curtis, who was there in nineteen sixty

415
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 4: two when federal marshalls marched on the University of Mississippi

416
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,679
Speaker 4: to forcibly integrate the campus with the enrollment of a

417
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 4: single black student, James Meredith.

418
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 7: Finally, on September the thirtieth, James Meridith was brought to

419
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 7: the campus and accompanied by several hundred federal marshals who

420
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 7: surrounded administration building and attract any regular of plitiction. And

421
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 7: so this is my own eyewitness account. But I went

422
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,120
Speaker 7: over to see all the commotion, and it was out

423
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 7: of curiosity, and I think most of the students there

424
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 7: were just trying to figure out what's going on now.

425
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 7: In this latest chapter of Push and Shove.

426
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 4: Curtis, as I'm sure you figured out by the way

427
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 4: he pronounced shove, is born and raised in Mississippi.

428
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:54,679
Speaker 7: Around sundown, things began to turn a bit ugly. And

429
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,120
Speaker 7: it had largely been a curious crowd, and there were

430
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 7: a handful of students who were heckling the marshalls, and

431
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,439
Speaker 7: maybe they were throwing things at them. I didn't see that,

432
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 7: but all of a sudden, with no warning, the marshals

433
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 7: fired volleys of tear gas into the middle of all

434
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 7: of us. You know, a lot of others were doing

435
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 7: nothing other than just watching from.

436
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,719
Speaker 4: There campus evolved into a pitched battle. John F. Kennedy

437
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,919
Speaker 4: called in thirty thousand federal troops. By the next morning,

438
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 4: two people were dead.

439
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 2: James H.

440
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 3: Meredith is formally enrolled at the University of Mississippi, ending

441
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 3: one chapter in the federal government's efforts to desegregate the university.

442
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 3: The town of Oxford is an armed cannel following riots

443
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 3: that accompany the registration of the first Negro in the

444
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 3: university's one hundred.

445
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 2: And eighteen year history.

446
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 7: Very ugly incident, it tarnished the reputation of the school

447
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 7: for years.

448
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 4: Curtis Wilkie would go on to witness history and write

449
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 4: about it for decades, but as a student of the

450
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 4: University of Mississippi, Curtis was also a rebel.

451
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 7: I like the term rebel. If you take the Confederacy

452
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:14,719
Speaker 7: out of it, it's a great word. It means people

453
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 7: who are not necessarily going to be conventional. I used

454
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 7: to say in the sixties that we in old myths

455
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 7: may use the term rebels, but the real rebels of

456
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 7: my generation were the black students who were so deeply

457
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 7: involved in the movement. The students who started the sit

458
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 7: ins were from North Carolina, A and T in Fisk

459
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 7: University in Nashville and Jackson State here in Mississippi. They

460
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 7: were brave, they were corageous, and they were rebels. The

461
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 7: problem is, you know, the Confederacy kind of destroyed the word.

462
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 7: I don't use when I talk about, let's say, the

463
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 7: old Miss football team to day. I never refer to

464
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 7: the Miss Rebels, and I tried to avoid using it

465
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 7: as much as I can.

466
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 4: Curtis even has ideas about mascots.

467
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 7: In terms of a mascot. Hell uh, you could have

468
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 7: somebody resembling Jay Givara and mascot to h to the rebels.

469
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 4: Which okay, yes, any school that wants to keep the

470
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 4: name Rebel and adopt a mascot that looks like Jay Guavera,

471
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 4: you have, Curtis and my blessing, and since you have

472
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 4: feelings about rebels, I had to ask what he thought

473
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 4: about the Biscuits my daughter and.

474
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 7: Son in law. I have a dog named Biscuits.

475
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 2: So.

476
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: He could be the mascot.

477
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 7: It's big yellow, Aya, I'll be it like a good mascot.

478
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 7: But uh, you know, I'm not sure that would work.

479
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 5: But U.

480
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 7: Certainly wouldn't be as controversial as rebels.

481
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 4: Okay, check one off in the Biscuit column for sure.

482
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 4: But what I really wanted to talk to Curtis about

483
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 4: wasn't mascots, but about how his decades writing about and

484
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 4: witnessing change had affected him.

485
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 7: It's very gratifying to me to see what's happened in

486
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 7: my lifetime. You know, I grew up in segregated society.

487
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 7: You know, every classroom that I ever took a class

488
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 7: in was all white. Though James Merrit was in Old

489
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 7: miss My last semester. You know, I should mention, just

490
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 7: parenthetically and happily, James Meris, it's become a personal friend

491
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 7: of mine, and he and his wife, and so I

492
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 7: occasionally see them up here and I'm eighty three and

493
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 7: he's ninety, but we still know who each other are. Well,

494
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 7: things are infinitely are today than they were, but.

495
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 4: He says recently things feel like they're moving backwards.

496
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 7: Unfortunately, in the last i'd say ten years, maybe more.

497
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 7: My home state of Mississippi is backsliding. We have a

498
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 7: very conservative government. They're all acolytes of Donald Trump, and

499
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 7: they're doing what they can to I think some of

500
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 7: the policies are designed to dray blacks out of the state,

501
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 7: So that's disparting. But in the greater scheme of things

502
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 7: here take my lifetime on my guide, it's it's unimaginable

503
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 7: what life is even in Mississippi in terms of racial acceptance, tolerance, freedoms.

504
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 7: So the problem really is essentially the very conservative state

505
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 7: over month, but you get down local levels, there's very

506
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 7: little racial friction. People get along. There will always be problems,

507
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 7: but compared to what it was when I started to

508
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 7: school in nineteen forty, it's it's just it's amazing to

509
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 7: be so happy I've lived that long to seaboard I've scene.

510
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 4: So as someone who has lived that long, what advice

511
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 4: does he have for me trying to push change through

512
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 4: in the South against headwinds and indifference, Keep the faith.

513
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 7: And keep pushing for the change we need in Mississippi.

514
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 7: I've been able to see an imaginable progress, but there's

515
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 7: still things that need to be done.

516
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 4: Keep the faith, keep pushing. It's simple advice, but it's true.

517
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 4: Sports journalist Jamel Hill had similar advice for me when

518
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 4: we spoke for the episode about Shawn Alexander.

519
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 6: The number one piece of advice is to keep going

520
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 6: and I know that seems like really simple and it's

521
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 6: just two words, but they're powerful words because a lot

522
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 6: of things don't happen because it was hard to muster

523
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 6: up the resolve to continue to do something that was

524
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 6: always going to be a fight.

525
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 4: Keep going. She's right, and then she said something that

526
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 4: floored me.

527
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 6: We also want to think about these next generation of students,

528
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 6: like you were a student that had to live under

529
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 6: the guys at this awful racist nickname and mascot. Maybe

530
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 6: there is a student that will graduate twenty years from

531
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 6: now that will not be their reality.

532
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 4: For me, for you listening, this feels like a fight

533
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 4: for now, but really it's a fight for the future,

534
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 4: for progress for some kid in Florence that's an elementary.

535
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 6: School today, maybe thirty forty years from now, a student

536
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 6: will say what they really did?

537
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 4: Have a mascot like that? Who knows my dream? That's it, right,

538
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 4: that's the dream for change to happen in a way

539
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 4: that eventually it it's a surprise that it was ever

540
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 4: that way in the first place. For progress to happen

541
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 4: in a place that feels like it can't progress because

542
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 4: it's bound by the forces of tradition.

543
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 2: Tradition is dead people's baggage.

544
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 4: That's Roy Wood Junior, quoting the comedian Doug Stanhope.

545
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 2: This idea that we must do it like this because

546
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 2: this has always been done. Come on, y'all, this has

547
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: been done that. Don come on, It's like, no, you

548
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: can just say we don't want to do that anymore.

549
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 4: Roy is hilarious. I mean, first off, he's one of

550
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 4: the best comedians working today. He's a longtime contributor to

551
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 4: The Daily Show and the hosts of the new CNN

552
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 4: comedy news show Have I Got News for You? But

553
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 4: he also thinks a lot about and was the host

554
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 4: of the NPR podcast The Road to Rickwood, about the

555
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 4: Negro leagues and the civil rights movement in Birmingham, Alabama.

556
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 2: Part of why I enjoyed reading autobiographies for the most part,

557
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: I don't read fiction. I'm mostly a self help and

558
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: an autobiography type of guy, and a lot of that

559
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 2: boils down to understanding that other people's experiences, none of

560
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: them were absent of struggle.

561
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 4: Roy's perspective is when I sought out for this episode,

562
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 4: because despite the fact that he can completely crack me

563
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 4: up every single time, he's also always thinking deeply about things,

564
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 4: especially when it comes to the South where he grew up.

565
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 2: I think where you're from is a combination of first fight,

566
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: first kiss, where you graduated high school. Mm.

567
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 4: I like that that's where you're from. One thing I

568
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 4: really appreciate about Roy is he's always willing to say

569
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 4: it like it really and truly is.

570
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: You're talking about a part of the country where if

571
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 2: you're taking this position, that's not the popular position to have,

572
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: so you're dealing with a lot more shit. So you

573
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: almost have to open your network up to other people

574
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: and other things and people and other places to just

575
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,479
Speaker 2: talk like And I know it sounds cliche, but literally

576
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 2: just having a conversation with other people it can grow

577
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: things leaps and bounds in terms of your spirit and

578
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 2: fighting for the right thing is hard, and I think

579
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: it's almost impossible to not let things affect you emotionally. Yeah,

580
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's next to impossible. So you

581
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: have to be able to protect yourself and look out

582
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: for yourself a little bit, and the best way to

583
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: do that is just finding other people that are dealing

584
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: with the shit.

585
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 4: You know, talking to Roy, he can pivot from serious

586
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 4: to hilarious before you know it. But that's doubly true

587
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 4: when he's sharing his let's call it interesting solution to

588
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 4: the mascot problem when you.

589
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 2: Look at the Florida State seminoles, right, the seminoles operate

590
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: under a different situation because they've made good good with

591
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 2: the Seminole tribe and whatever agreement they've set up with

592
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: the Seminole tribe, it's like, you know what, ween't tripping

593
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 2: on this shit like all them mother mascots with the Indians.

594
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: Do what you do, big dog, go Florida State. Matter

595
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: of fact, tomahawk Chop, put a white dude in face paint,

596
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: let him stab a flame and spirit fifty yard line cool.

597
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: Why can't racists make the same arrangement with the school

598
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 2: because here's it just followed me for a second, because

599
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: I know I'm losing you. Money is what dictates change.

600
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: If there was a way to create a confederate group,

601
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: I don't know, like some men who used to be

602
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: related to Confederate sons of a confederacy, if you will,

603
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: and then you go to the school and you go, yeah,

604
00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: that's our tribe, give us money, and then immediately the

605
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: school system would go fuck that and fuck that lawsuit.

606
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 2: We're gonna be the Biscuits exactly.

607
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 4: Okay, maybe not all of Roy's advice is all that

608
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 4: solid now that I'm looking back on it, but it's

609
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 4: at least a creative solution to the problem. But Roy's right,

610
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 4: I mean, not about founding a fake Confederate organization, but

611
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 4: about finding other people who have been fighting against the

612
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 4: odds to find out how they made it through. And

613
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 4: so there was one more person I knew I needed

614
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 4: to talk to. We'll be right back.

615
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 8: I feel like, from the outside looking in, when you

616
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 8: see ex post facto tellings of these kinds of stories

617
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 8: where someone faces a lot of stonewalling and obstacles and

618
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 8: then elicits some kind of a productive outcome, it looks

619
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 8: like cinematic portrayals of heroism. There's a lot of like, yes, well,

620
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 8: I'm not gonna let that happen, and I'm gonna, you know,

621
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 8: stand on principle. And it's not that those factors are

622
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 8: absent in my logic anyway, in my experience of those

623
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 8: kinds of moments of adversity, But it doesn't feel that explicit.

624
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 8: It certainly doesn't feel that glamorous and a much more

625
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 8: emotionally present. Component of it for me anyway, is just

626
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 8: getting through to the other side and surviving.

627
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 4: This is Ronan Pharaoh. I probably don't need to introduce him,

628
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 4: but in case you don't know, he's the journalist in

629
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen who broke the story that Hollywood mogul Harvey

630
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 4: Weinstein had raped and sexually abused dozens of women. It

631
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 4: was a piece of reporting that cost him his job

632
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 4: at NBC, who capitulated to Weinstein's threats and forced him

633
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 4: to flee his home for a period. Ronan is also

634
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 4: someone I'm lucky enough to consider a friend.

635
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 8: By the time that going got really rough, I had

636
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 8: essentially lost my job, alienated all of these executives at

637
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 8: the company that I thought I had a future in.

638
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 8: I was getting all kinds of threats, both legal and physical.

639
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 8: I had to leave my home. I was in this

640
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 8: very precarious, tenuous position where I was trying to do

641
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 8: this really tough reporting, first kind of completely in the

642
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 8: wilderness by myself and paying for camera crews out of pocket,

643
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 8: and then at the New Yorker, where I didn't have

644
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,439
Speaker 8: relationships or a foothold, and thank god, they were real

645
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 8: good guys in a very classic sense, and they stood

646
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 8: by it. Yeah, but it felt very frightening, and the

647
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 8: stakes were very all or nothing, and I pushed it

648
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 8: to a point where there was really no return.

649
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 4: I wanted to talk to Ronan because I think he

650
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 4: might have some thoughts on how I feel right now,

651
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 4: which is, let's be honest, frustrated and wondering how I

652
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 4: can keep things moving forward when every wall I run

653
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 4: up against is labeled tradition.

654
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 8: It's a strain of discourse that I'll always struggle to

655
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 8: understand or genuinely relate to emotional when people are so

656
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 8: so wedded to tradition, even when it's hurting people in

657
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 8: the present day, and there seems to be very little

658
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 8: downside except in the form of abstraction. I mean, obviously,

659
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 8: you know this is not a conversation which you're proposing

660
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 8: burning the history books and like maybe it's all for yeah,

661
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 8: no one, and no one's gonna forget about like.

662
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, he still does a Confederate flag at your house,

663
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 4: like we remember, right, And then there's.

664
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 8: That, right, There's like plenty ways these communities are keeping

665
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 8: traditions alive. It it therefore, it is a conversation in

666
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 8: which I, you know, strive for empathy and understanding of

667
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 8: what is making people tick, but struggle with it because

668
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 8: it just seems like the cost benefit analysis is so clear,

669
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 8: Like why wouldn't you just lighten the load of suffering

670
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 8: in that small way for present day black students? And

671
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 8: I think you know, breaking through that requires people with courage,

672
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,240
Speaker 8: And I'm really glad that you took up the mantle

673
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 8: of that.

674
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,479
Speaker 4: Which I have to be honest and say that having

675
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 4: run and tell me that was definitely a boost I needed.

676
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 4: But more than that, I wanted to know how he

677
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 4: kept going, how he kept pushing, how he stayed motivated.

678
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 4: And his answer was actually quite simple. He wants to

679
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 4: be a good person.

680
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 8: There's power in the moral stories we grow up with,

681
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 8: right and the idea of heroism and villainy and kindness

682
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 8: versus anger hate. And I think that while you want

683
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 8: to be clear minded and rational, and I'm not so

684
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 8: much of firebrand, I think I have a ethical code,

685
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 8: but I don't really have an activist sensibility in a

686
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 8: lot of meaningful senses. I'm reporter who wants to unearth

687
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 8: the facts, and I'm making cost benefit analysis type decisions

688
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 8: in a really pragmatic way. But there is also a

689
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 8: strong element of my decision making that is about wanting

690
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 8: to craft a life over time where I am a

691
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 8: good person in my own eyes.

692
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

693
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 8: I'm not saying I always succeed, but I think it's

694
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 8: that sort of almost delusion of grandeur, of like, oh,

695
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 8: I want to be a good person, and when life

696
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 8: tests me, I want to be someone who helps other people,

697
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 8: even at my own expense. Embracing those tropes and wanting

698
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 8: to live up to them, I think is a good thing,

699
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 8: even when there is some delusion in it, Like I think,

700
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 8: allow yourself to indulge in the fantasy of being heroic

701
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 8: when the going gets tough.

702
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 4: Indulge in the fantasy of being heroic when the going

703
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 4: gets tough. I've been thinking a lot about that as

704
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 4: we've wrapped work on this series, about the folks that

705
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 4: we've talked to along the way who didn't just indulge

706
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 4: in the fantasy, but who were heroes. People like Bobby

707
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 4: Thomas and Kalais Campbell at Denver Seth, people like Annie Wilson,

708
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 4: who spent twenty years trying to get her team name

709
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 4: changed before it finally did. Or the historians we've talked

710
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 4: to who aren't afraid to tell the real histories of

711
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 4: their towns and of this country, even when it's ugly,

712
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 4: Or the everyday people we've met in Florence who aren't

713
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 4: too afraid to say that something is wrong when it's wrong,

714
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 4: even in the face of the backlash of those that

715
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 4: cling to tradition. Because at the end of this after

716
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 4: a year of research, of learning, of conversations, of coalition building,

717
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 4: and most importantly of trying, really trying to make change

718
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 4: happen in Florence, Kentucky, my hometown, I think it really

719
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 4: comes down to the push and pull of tradition versus progress,

720
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 4: about the clash between moving forward and turning back. And

721
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 4: when I look up from my notes, when I look

722
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 4: up from the microphone, when I look beyond the athletic

723
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 4: fields of Florence in the banks of the Ohio River,

724
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 4: I see that clash everywhere. I think you do too.

725
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 4: It feels in a lot of ways like the defining

726
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 4: struggle of our time to move forward in the face

727
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 4: of the massive resistance to change. When we lined up

728
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 4: to vote in twenty sixteen, in twenty twenty and just

729
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 4: last week. That is ultimately what we're choosing between. There

730
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 4: are a million skirmishes in this battle. In mine is

731
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,720
Speaker 4: getting the Boone County Rebel to become the Boone County

732
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 4: Biscuits or whatever. Really, listener, I think biscuits are delicious.

733
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 4: But if these kids want to be the Rangers, the

734
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 4: Mammoths or the mal Rats or the Tigers, or literally

735
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 4: anything else but a name that glorifies the Confederacy, then

736
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 4: more power to them. The point is that change is good,

737
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 4: That moving forward is good. That looking around and seeing

738
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 4: that your community has transformed dramatically since the nineteen fifties,

739
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 4: seeing that the world has changed since then, and embracing

740
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 4: that transformation. That's what this is all about. And so

741
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 4: let's all indulge in the fantasy of being heroic together first,

742
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 4: and ask of you send words of encouragement to those

743
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 4: that are in positions of power in Boone County. Don't

744
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 4: be mean, don't be combative. We've made all the arguments

745
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 4: that need to be made here on this podcast, So

746
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 4: encourage them to be heroic, to make change, not because

747
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,439
Speaker 4: it's easy, but because it is right.

748
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: Now.

749
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,439
Speaker 4: We've heard rumors that this change might be coming soon.

750
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 4: We've tried to chase them down to confirm if it's

751
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 4: really happening, and we've once again hit dead ends. But

752
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 4: I have to believe it, and your encouragement might just

753
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 4: make it happen. But also I'm not done yet. This

754
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 4: podcast is not over. We've been given a little more

755
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 4: time in a few more episodes to continue to pursue

756
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 4: this change wherever it takes us. We're going to go

757
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 4: away for a little bit to do some reporting and

758
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 4: to do the work and also honestly catch our breath.

759
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 4: But you'll hear from us soon and hopefully it's with

760
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 4: good news. Until then, I'm Akuila Hughes, and this has

761
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:01,760
Speaker 4: been Rebel Spirit. Spirit is a production of Ninth Planet

762
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 4: Audio in association with iHeart Podcasts. Reporting and writing by

763
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 4: me Akuila Hughes. I'm also an executive producer and the host.

764
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 4: Produced by Dan Sinker, edited by Josie A.

765
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: Zahm Our.

766
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 4: Assistant editor is Jennifer Dean. Music composed by Charlie Son,

767
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 4: Sound design and mixing by Josie A.

768
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 6: Zahm Our.

769
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 4: Production coordinator is Kyle Hinton. Our clearance coordinator is Anna

770
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 4: Sun and Chine Production accounting by Dill Pretzing, additional research

771
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 4: support from Janis Dillard. Special thanks to Jay Becker and

772
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 4: the whole team at BLDG the Florence y'alls, Amber Hoffmann,

773
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 4: and Leslie Chambers. Executive producers for Ninth Planet Audio are

774
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 4: Elizabeth Baklett and Jimmy Miller