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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big

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Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they

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Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast, New listeners, old listeners. Wherever

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Speaker 1: you are in the world, it is so great to

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Speaker 1: have you here. Back for another episode as we break

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Speaker 1: down the psychology of our twenties. A bit of a

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Speaker 1: universal truth about this decade is that nothing is set

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Speaker 1: in stone.

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Speaker 2: This is obviously one of the major periods in our

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Speaker 2: life for exploration for change, and that includes the jobs

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Speaker 2: we work and our career path. I think in the past,

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Speaker 2: our careers were very much mapped out for us. Restricted

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Speaker 2: we chose one career path and it kind of followed

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Speaker 2: us through life. And nowadays we have a lot more

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Speaker 2: freedom and capacity for change, and I think it's really

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Speaker 2: valuable to discuss how we could make that scary transition

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Speaker 2: from one career to another, facing things like financial uncertainty,

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Speaker 2: job in security during this decade and making that decision

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Speaker 2: because either we are unhappy with where we are or

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Speaker 2: we're just looking for something different, something more fulfilling more us,

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Speaker 2: or maybe there's been a factor beyond out control, getting

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Speaker 2: fired for example, or just being burnt out. I think honestly,

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Speaker 2: our twenties are the best time for this change, and

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Speaker 2: it might feel really scary to start from scratch. You

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Speaker 2: might not even know where to begin. But that is

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Speaker 2: where our amazing guest comes in. We thought we might

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Speaker 2: bring on an expert, the founder of carea Contessa, Lauren,

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Speaker 2: to took us through exactly how we can kind of

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Speaker 2: change careers in our twenties and be sure of our decisions. Lauren,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much for coming on the show.

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Speaker 3: Hi, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Firstly, can you tell us a bit about yourself and

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Speaker 2: what you do?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, and then we'll get to the psychology of it.

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Speaker 4: So my name is Laura mcgodwin. I'm the founder and

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Speaker 4: CEO of career Contessa. We are the largest online professional

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Speaker 4: platform for women in their careers. Anybody can use our site,

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Speaker 4: but we do, you know, mostly tailor our advice and

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Speaker 4: content for women and because women's careers are different, being

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Speaker 4: a woman in the workplace is different. And really what

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Speaker 4: we do is we help people, you know, get hired,

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Speaker 4: get paid, advance at work, build these fulfilling careers and

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Speaker 4: the reality and kind of where the psychology piece of

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Speaker 4: this kind of probably comes into is that mindset of

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Speaker 4: like there's no one career for anybody, you know, there's

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Speaker 4: not like linear career paths. One plus one doesn't always

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Speaker 4: equal to in your careers. And so what I set

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Speaker 4: out to create was this resource that wasn't just a

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Speaker 4: job site, which is what a lot of things are.

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Speaker 3: They're like get the job and then we're done with you.

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Speaker 4: I really wanted a career site that could build and

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Speaker 4: grow with people as a navigate different transitions and shifts

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Speaker 4: in their careers. So we did that at Career Contesta.

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Speaker 4: We have a podcast called Career Cantesta. I have a

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Speaker 4: book called Power Moves. You know, we have all all

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Speaker 4: the things so that people can can continue to thrive

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Speaker 4: in their workplace.

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Speaker 2: I honestly love that. I wish I'd had a resource

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Speaker 2: like that when I first like finished university, because the

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Speaker 2: only thing I really had access to was like seek

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Speaker 2: and like that was it.

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Speaker 3: Like yeah, I seek in.

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Speaker 2: Like the job page of like my university website. So

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Speaker 2: that is like super super amazing and I think such

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Speaker 2: a great resource. I also love what you said, where

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Speaker 2: by one plus one doesn't always equal to when it

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Speaker 2: comes to our careers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very frustrating, oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: But also it's super it's really frustrating, but then it's

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Speaker 2: also kind of freeing because sometimes you can equal four

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Speaker 2: or like five.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly exactly me.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm thinking about my own kind of path through

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Speaker 2: my twenties and like their little career dips and turns

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Speaker 2: that I talk. And I started this decade working hospital.

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Speaker 2: Then I worked as like in a cool center. Then

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Speaker 2: I worked as like an interviewer for the government that

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Speaker 2: I was working as a consultant. Like now I'm here.

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Speaker 2: I feel like, if that's what the first five years

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Speaker 2: of my twenties has had for me, the last five

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Speaker 2: years even more so.

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Speaker 4: Anyhow, Yes, absolutely, I like your optimistic view on all

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Speaker 4: things so far.

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Speaker 3: This is great.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad. I'm so glad, and I feel, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's better to just approach things with

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Speaker 2: this air of like surely this is this is all

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Speaker 2: going to turn out Okay.

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Speaker 4: It leads to a lot of one of my favorite

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Speaker 4: quotes is it's this or something better, And it's like,

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Speaker 4: you know what, because what's the alternative, You're gonna be like,

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Speaker 4: it was this or my life is over. Like, you know,

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Speaker 4: you don't want that either, so it's this or something better.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of been my new motto.

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Speaker 3: I love Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, We're gonna talk about that more on a personal

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Speaker 2: level later. But one of my first questions for you

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Speaker 2: is what are some of the common reasons why individuals

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Speaker 2: people like us in now twenties might consider changing careers.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it happens for a whole variety of reasons.

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Speaker 4: It can be that you kind of fell into a career.

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Speaker 4: So maybe you found a job through your career center

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Speaker 4: and it wasn't something you really wanted, but it was

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Speaker 4: better than nothing, and so you kind of were doing

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Speaker 4: it and all of a sudden you're like, I don't

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Speaker 4: want to do this the rest of my life. For example,

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Speaker 4: my very first job at a college MINEU I graduated

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Speaker 4: during a recession wasn't great. I was an admin assistant

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Speaker 4: for a university. I didn't want to do that forever

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Speaker 4: I knew I didn't, and I just sort of needed

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Speaker 4: the time to. You know, obviously, bills won't pay themselves,

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Speaker 4: so you sometimes will take a bridge job while you

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Speaker 4: are working toward wherever you.

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Speaker 3: Want to go next.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes it can be that, Okay, I've started working and

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Speaker 4: I have a huge interest in this other thing, and

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Speaker 4: I really want to maybe keep doing my job function

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Speaker 4: but in a different industry. And then you have the

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Speaker 4: flip side where it's like, I want to stay in

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Speaker 4: the same industry but do something totally different. I had

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Speaker 4: a really good friend. We worked on the recruiting team

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Speaker 4: together at Hulu, and she made in her twenties, she

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Speaker 4: transitioned from the recruiting team to the marketing team. Now

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Speaker 4: she has a much bigger career in marketing. It was

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Speaker 4: that transition that sort of was the first stepping stone.

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Speaker 4: So I think this happens a lot. I also think

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Speaker 4: in your twenties, you sort of you don't know what

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Speaker 4: you don't know, and so one of the beautiful things

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Speaker 4: about working and just taking something getting out there is

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Speaker 4: that you start to get introduced to new things and

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Speaker 4: you start to follow your curiosity. And so there's so

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Speaker 4: many reasons why people might consider a career pivot, whether

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Speaker 4: it's I just want to do something different, or I want,

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Speaker 4: you know, more salary potential. Someone who maybe decided they

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Speaker 4: wanted to be a teacher and they're like, you know what,

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Speaker 4: I love this career, but I can't live off of

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Speaker 4: this salary, So what can I do? So like people,

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Speaker 4: you know, everyone has their personal reasons it. You know,

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Speaker 4: it can be I want to work remote, Okay, so

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Speaker 4: what careers are going to allow you to do that forever?

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Speaker 3: So I think it all comes down to.

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Speaker 4: Sort of people having a little bit more clarity about

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Speaker 4: what they really want or something that really matters a

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Speaker 4: lot to them, and you kind of it's like you

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Speaker 4: can't always figure those things out thinking about them. You know,

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Speaker 4: clarity comes from engagement, not thought. It's not my quote,

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Speaker 4: that's Maray Folio's. But I love it because you can't

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Speaker 4: just sit there and think really hard and help that

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Speaker 4: the answer comes.

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Speaker 3: You do have to get out there and start doing.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like it's such an exercise of like

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Speaker 2: value realignment because as we go through our twenties, the

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Speaker 2: values that we held when we first maybe entered the

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Speaker 2: workplace and we're making career related decisions at like sixteen

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Speaker 2: and seventeen, like whilst we were still in high school. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: those values change. Maybe when they were eighteen years old,

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Speaker 2: you really valued money and you really valued this idea

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Speaker 2: of I'm going to build all this wealth in my

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Speaker 2: twenties so that I can relax for the rest of

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Speaker 2: my life, and you get halfway through that and you

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Speaker 2: realize this is incredibly unfulfilling and like not a life

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Speaker 2: that I want to leave. Like I think there are

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Speaker 2: so many factors that come down to finding something that

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Speaker 2: aligns to who you are as you change and as

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Speaker 2: your values change as well. The other big one for me,

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Speaker 2: I think about this a lot. I think our jobs

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Speaker 2: are one of the biggest time consumers in our lives,

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Speaker 2: probably second only to sleep, and so not being happy

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Speaker 2: with what you do for a living, with what you

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Speaker 2: do every day for eight hours can suck a lot

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Speaker 2: of life out of everything else you do. Think it

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Speaker 2: can be an incredible source of stress and tension. I

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Speaker 2: used to do when I was doing working in a

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Speaker 2: call center. I would do mental health reviews and interviews

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Speaker 2: for the government. And it was just eight hours of

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Speaker 2: asking people about the worst and harness points in their life,

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Speaker 2: day in and day out, and it made me so

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Speaker 2: miserable and I didn't want to go to work. I

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Speaker 2: would call in sick all the time. What do you

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Speaker 2: think of some of the signs that we actually really

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Speaker 2: do need to contemplate a change. It's not because we

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Speaker 2: want to do something that's more in line without values.

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Speaker 2: It's because now we seriously need to we seriously need

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Speaker 2: to make a shift.

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Speaker 4: To you. Yeah, I feel like your body usually tells

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Speaker 4: you it whether you want to listen or not.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: So I had this person I interviewed once and she said,

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Speaker 4: your body will give you clues, and the clues get

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Speaker 4: louder when you don't pay attention to them. So, you know,

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Speaker 4: a toxic workplace can impact you in a whole variety

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Speaker 4: of ways. But if you kind of keep going up

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Speaker 4: the scale, eventually it's like you know, people can experience

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Speaker 4: like autoimmune disorders and they're like where did I get this?

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Speaker 4: And you're like, oh, well, you've been extremely stressed for

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Speaker 4: the last two years, and like, okay, your body is

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Speaker 4: responding to that.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of like little signs of

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Speaker 4: people always want to know, like is it me?

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Speaker 3: Is it the job? You know?

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Speaker 4: One of the things I do think is important to

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Speaker 4: think about is like you take yourself wherever you go.

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Speaker 4: So the first thing I would do of like if

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Speaker 4: you're recognizing that is like, do some some of your

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Speaker 4: own works, you know, work the therapist, do some journaling exercises,

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Speaker 4: like some of these things that we talk about actually

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Speaker 4: do work, you know, having moments of mindfulness, disconnecting, like

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Speaker 4: don't doom scroll, you know, start with some of those things,

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Speaker 4: because those are the things you can control.

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Speaker 3: Maybe.

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Speaker 4: Also, the other thing I find for people is like

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Speaker 4: sometimes they can't quite identify what it is that about work.

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Speaker 4: You know, yours is obviously very obvious. Sometimes you're lucky

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Speaker 4: and it is really obvious, and other times it's like

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Speaker 4: you're being gaslighted by a boss who you don't quite

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Speaker 4: understand that behavior. So education can help a lot with

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Speaker 4: that too, sort of educating yourself about toxic workplaces, manipulative bosses,

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Speaker 4: you know, and start to kind of recognize those things

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Speaker 4: because sometimes there's things that you can control, but we

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Speaker 4: can't always control other people's actions.

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Speaker 3: The other thing.

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Speaker 4: About boundaries I always think about is like when you

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Speaker 4: think of a boundary, you're like, no emails after five pm,

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Speaker 4: and you're almost like you're expecting your boss to not

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Speaker 4: do that, But really the boundary is something that you

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Speaker 4: set more for yourself, almost like a limit your setting

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Speaker 4: for yourself. So it's like, no, I'm not going to

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Speaker 4: respond to emails after five pm. I can't control that

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Speaker 4: they send the emails after five pm, but that's what

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Speaker 4: I'm going to do. So those are all kind of

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Speaker 4: little tips I would say to things to start with.

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Speaker 4: If you're doing all those things and or you just

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Speaker 4: know this is not what I want to do, I'm

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Speaker 4: so unhappy. I'm miserable. Look I'm not a person who

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Speaker 4: would just naturally say, like, just quit your job and

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Speaker 4: find something else. I would be a person who said,

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Speaker 4: because and look, not everyone has that privilege. I was

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Speaker 4: in a job that I absolutely hated. I cried in

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Speaker 4: the bathroom. I got asked one day to feed paper

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Speaker 4: through a printer, and I was like, they have to

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Speaker 4: be kidding. This is like literally what this machine does,

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Speaker 4: Like what do you mean I have to put paper

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Speaker 4: one by one into the printer.

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Speaker 3: I was so miserable.

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Speaker 4: And the thing that helped me get clarity, and I

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Speaker 4: think was like more of a positive outlet than just

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Speaker 4: quitting my job, was I started having informational interviews with people.

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Speaker 4: I started reading books and listening to podcasts. I found

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Speaker 4: another friend who was also a job searching and we

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Speaker 4: connected once a week and we were setting many goals

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Speaker 4: and you know, having informational interviews. That job was never

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Speaker 4: going to be the job for me, and looking back,

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Speaker 4: there were so many parts about it that didn't align

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Speaker 4: with my values and why I didn't love it, But

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Speaker 4: I wasn't going to change that workplace. So instead I

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Speaker 4: was like, what are some of the things I can control?

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Speaker 4: Because I didn't have the ability to quit my job

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Speaker 4: and focus on those things full time. But what I

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Speaker 4: found is I was on cloud nine just by engaging

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Speaker 4: in some of these things that made me feel like

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Speaker 4: there was hope that I wasn't going to be working

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Speaker 4: in this job forever that I hated. So that's at

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Speaker 4: least been my experience. Now, if you have the ability to,

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Speaker 4: like you've got some savings or you have you know,

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Speaker 4: some side skill that you can monetize and do some

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Speaker 4: freelancing or side hustle or whatnot, and you are able

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Speaker 4: to quit your job, then maybe you quit your job

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Speaker 4: because you're like, it's actually doing more harm for me

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Speaker 4: to show up and keep doing this than it is

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Speaker 4: for me to quit, and you know, make other sacrifices

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Speaker 4: in other places So there's a great book called Essentialism

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Speaker 4: and it's all about focus and one of the things

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Speaker 4: he talks about is life is full of trade offs.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's really important because not everything can

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Speaker 4: be a priority, Not everything can.

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Speaker 3: Be your number one. So what are you willing to

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Speaker 3: trade off?

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Speaker 4: You know, are you willing to trade off, you know,

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Speaker 4: the salary of this job that you hate to you know,

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Speaker 4: take a bridge, a couple bridge jobs and look for

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Speaker 4: a new job on the side, you know, or are

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Speaker 4: you able to say, like, hey, I can stay here

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Speaker 4: and kind of like decompartmentalize, like this job is not

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Speaker 4: for me, I won't be here forever, and here are

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Speaker 4: all the things I'm doing to take action to get

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Speaker 4: myself out of here. So those are just some of

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Speaker 4: the things that come to mind when I think of

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Speaker 4: like when people are trying to decide should I stay

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Speaker 4: or shit go? It really depends on your situation, you know.

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Speaker 4: You you have to know what your financial runway is.

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Speaker 4: You have to know And those are very empowering things too.

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Speaker 4: You should know like, well, okay, don't have three months

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Speaker 4: of you know, the average job search right now is

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Speaker 4: taking about five months, maybe even a little bit longer

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Speaker 4: because it's it's a very tough job market out there.

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Speaker 4: So for example, if you still have a job, you

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Speaker 4: might say I'm not going to quit because it's tough.

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Speaker 4: Like so you have to take into account your own

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Speaker 4: situation and some realities of what's happening, and then make

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Speaker 4: a strategy based on that. The goodness about the strategies,

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Speaker 4: you can tweak it, you can refine it as you're

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Speaker 4: going along. And like I said, I think a huge

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Speaker 4: piece of this is also finding some community. Find a

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Speaker 4: friend who's also job searching, find you know, a community

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Speaker 4: of people who are focused on this stuff, because it

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Speaker 4: will make you feel less alone. And it's one of

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Speaker 4: the most important things when you are thinking about making

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Speaker 4: a transition is talking to people who have been there

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Speaker 4: and done that or are going through it with you

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Speaker 4: because they can relate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I think community is such an antidote to

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Speaker 2: so many things. Yeah, you, and you made such a

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Speaker 2: good point, Like I think, obviously this is a podcast

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Speaker 2: about psychology, and I think prioritizing your mental health is

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Speaker 2: number one. Really, Like, if their job is seriously causing

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Speaker 2: you to feel mentally unwell, I think it's hard to

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Speaker 2: not be like well, you you should just quit and

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Speaker 2: you should just like get out of there because it's

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Speaker 2: gonna cost you a lot more. And just like mental energy,

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Speaker 2: emotional energy time to recover from that emotional experience. And

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Speaker 2: I think obviously our mental health is like the most

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Speaker 2: valuable resource that we have other than maybe like physical health.

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Speaker 2: But it's also, like you said, it's really important to

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Speaker 2: be realistic and to give yourself hope whilst you're still

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Speaker 2: in that situation. Right, Like, I think hope is such

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Speaker 2: like a psychologically powerful emotion. I don't think I'm the

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Speaker 2: first person to figure that out, but like it is,

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Speaker 2: it is so so powerful to keep you optimistic, to

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Speaker 2: keep you know, your spirits high, to keep you motivated,

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Speaker 2: even whilst your environment and the job you're currently working

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Speaker 2: is perhaps really terrible and you're miserable and it's awful.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that I wanted to say to that

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Speaker 2: is I had someone on the show who said, sometimes

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Speaker 2: we change our external environment because there's something internally that

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Speaker 2: we want to change. So it's an interesting thing when

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Speaker 2: we talk about changing careers in our twenties because obviously,

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Speaker 2: in one hand, I'm like, yes, absolutely take the risk

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Speaker 2: to anything you can to try out a new version

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Speaker 2: of you that you think you might be happier in.

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Speaker 2: But I sometimes see cases whereby people continuously change their

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Speaker 2: careers because they're using their careers as a proxy for

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Speaker 2: something else that's wrong in their life.

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Speaker 4: Totally, it's easier sometimes to change your career than to

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Speaker 4: do deep internal work right. And also I think it

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Speaker 4: feels like a tangible thing sometimes, like your job title,

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Speaker 4: your company, your boss, Like the external environment feels very tangible.

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Speaker 4: What I have found about psychology and internal work is

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Speaker 4: like that feels sometimes a little elusive, you know, like

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Speaker 4: you can't quite hold that feeling in your hand even

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Speaker 4: though you feel it. You know, it's like why psycho

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Speaker 4: just will be like name the emotion. You're like, I can't,

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Speaker 4: and you're like, okay, well step one, we got to

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Speaker 4: put some words to this sometimes, you know. So I

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Speaker 4: would agree with that absolutely. I think that's why I

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Speaker 4: say you take yourself wherever you go. So if you

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Speaker 4: don't do that work, you take and I don't want

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Speaker 4: to say baggage, but you take that to the next place.

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Speaker 4: And you kind of collect these experiences and keep thinking

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Speaker 4: why aren't they changing? And you're like, but you only

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Speaker 4: have control of yourself too. So it is it is

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Speaker 4: like the guests who said that, I completely understand, and

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Speaker 4: I think I see this a lot in job hopping,

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Speaker 4: where people will job hop and they'll say, well, I'm

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Speaker 4: doing it because I want to get a higher salary,

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Speaker 4: and you're if you like peel back all the layers,

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Speaker 4: they're actually doing it because they like are afraid, like

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Speaker 4: they have massive imposter syndrome and they're afraid that the

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Speaker 4: current company is going to realize they're not actually worth

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Speaker 4: what they paid for them or like whatever, like a

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Speaker 4: thing like that, and you're like, oh, okay, well this

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Speaker 4: is actually not about job hopping for like salary and

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Speaker 4: career advancement. This is this is a different thing altogether.

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Speaker 4: So I absolutely do see that as well.

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Speaker 2: The other factor here that I was thinking about as

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Speaker 2: well is burnout. Like if you were if you were

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Speaker 2: mentally so burnt out that you can't function at your job.

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Speaker 2: I understand, if I understand in some cases, like if

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Speaker 2: you're working as a nurse and working crazy hours and

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Speaker 2: then you transition to like an admin job, perhaps that

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Speaker 2: would be better. But if you're burnt out, it does

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Speaker 2: not just take like a like a career change to

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Speaker 2: solve that, nor does it take like quitting a job

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Speaker 2: for it to go away like that. Burnout is like

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Speaker 2: a deep emotional and physical state that needs to be

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Speaker 2: addressed at a more holistic level. You might feel momentarily

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Speaker 2: refreshed by changing careers or changing more so in this area,

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Speaker 2: like changing jobs, but it's going to come back really

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Speaker 2: really quickly if you don't establish like proper boundaries. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's likely another huge thing that maybe before

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Speaker 2: you choose to change careers, you see what else is

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Speaker 2: available to you in the current career and see whether

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Speaker 2: there is room for you to be promoted, whether there

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Speaker 2: is room for you to grow, whether there is room

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Speaker 2: for you to upskill in some way, or whether there

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Speaker 2: is room for you to just take like a long holiday,

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Speaker 2: like a long paid vacation, which I know I'm saying

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Speaker 2: this from a point of like I'm in Australia and

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Speaker 2: that is we have long term paid leave, So I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you guys have that.

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Speaker 4: No, the US is like I'm having heart surgery. I'll

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Speaker 4: be delayed responding to your email. You know, our view

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Speaker 4: on work is very unhealthy over here. But one thing

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Speaker 4: I was going to say about your comment about burnout.

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Speaker 4: This is what I have found. You can be working

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Speaker 4: crazy long hours but be really motivated and energized by

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Speaker 4: what you're working on and you're not burnt out. I

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Speaker 4: actually don't think burnout is always correlated to number of

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Speaker 4: and whatnot. I think burnout is actually more correlated to

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Speaker 4: the impact and the purpose. So, for example, if you

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Speaker 4: understand the impact that your work has on the company,

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Speaker 4: the team, the product, the customers, whatever, I think that's

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Speaker 4: much more energizing and keeps you from burning out because

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Speaker 4: you understand your bigger impact. When I do this thing,

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Speaker 4: here's how it adds to the bigger picture.

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Speaker 3: When you are.

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Speaker 4: Working crazy and you're just doing a ton of busy

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Speaker 4: work and you feel like this work doesn't matter, nobody

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Speaker 4: cares about this work, guess what that is going to

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Speaker 4: lead to burnout very quickly. It's a one way ticket

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Speaker 4: to burn out in the sense of like sometimes I

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Speaker 4: think it's more about the impact that your work is making.

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Speaker 4: Because us as humans, part of our well being is

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Speaker 4: that purpose piece. It's wanting to make an impact. It's

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Speaker 4: why you know Trust Fund Babies. You can sit on

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Speaker 4: a beach all day long, don't you know, they don't

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Speaker 4: they It's like it's not there's a piece of your

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Speaker 4: well being that wants to contribute and make an impact

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Speaker 4: and be working on something that matters to you. And

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Speaker 4: I think that especially when you're younger in your career. Look,

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Speaker 4: you're not going to be given like some major big

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Speaker 4: project or this, like you're gonna be asked to do

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Speaker 4: some grunt work. But like a way that you can

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Speaker 4: rephrase this, Like I remember I got this advice early

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Speaker 4: on that I really liked, and it was it was

438
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 4: swallow the frog, and it's kind of like one of

439
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 4: those greatest hacks, and I think it's helpful to learn

440
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 4: it early on in your career is observe your boss,

441
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 4: you know, figure out what they hate doing, and then

442
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 4: learn how to do it and take it off their plate,

443
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 4: Like can you you know, My point being is like

444
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,120
Speaker 4: sometimes early on in your career, nobody's going.

445
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 3: To come to you and say, do this thing.

446
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 4: It will make a big impact in my day and

447
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 4: therefore in your career. But you can, you know, job

448
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 4: titles are just to start, you know, thinking about thinking

449
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 4: outside the box of your job description and your job

450
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 4: title and thinking about okay, what thing does my boss

451
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 4: hate but it matters to them? Could I learn it

452
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 4: and take it off their plate? And therefore, instead of

453
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 4: doing these tasks that I feel like are busy work,

454
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 4: I'm doing something that's truly helping and making a difference there.

455
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,120
Speaker 4: And that's just an example of like sometimes when you're

456
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 4: younger in your career or earlier on in your career,

457
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 4: there are some limitations, Right, You're not going to be

458
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 4: able to like take over that client or something like that,

459
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 4: but maybe you can do something.

460
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 3: To help support that.

461
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,360
Speaker 4: So I say that because you know, I'm not trying

462
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 4: to say, oh, your job description doesn't matter and you

463
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 4: should take on all this extra work. I don't mean

464
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 4: it like that, but it's like, where can you not

465
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 4: just be the indispensable person at work where you work

466
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 4: really hard and you know you're doing all the things.

467
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 4: How can you be the invaluable person at work? What

468
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 4: things really matter on this team? And I think that

469
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 4: will help one grow your career, give you some more

470
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 4: insights into like you know, what lessons and tools and

471
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,719
Speaker 4: skills are you learning to add value, but also kind

472
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 4: of combating that burnout as well. So I think that's

473
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 4: one of the things I find, just especially early on

474
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 4: in your career, is like you can't look at it

475
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 4: as black and white as it is, even though it

476
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 4: feels that way. And that's what I was meaning about,

477
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 4: like one plus one doesn't always equal to and you're right,

478
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 4: it could equal four, but I think oftentimes people are

479
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 4: just frusht at because one plus one isn't even equally

480
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 4: too for them when it comes to like they're like

481
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 4: they're like, I got the job title and I got this,

482
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 4: saying why am I not fulfilled? Like I thought the

483
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 4: key to you know, career success and career fulfillment was

484
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 4: as simple as like finding the right job at the

485
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 4: right company, and I worked really hard to get that way,

486
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 4: and that probably goes back to a bigger picture. But

487
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 4: this is also why I get frustrated with the terminology

488
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 4: like dream job.

489
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 2: Do not do not talk to me about this. I

490
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 2: hate that term. I literally did a whole episode like

491
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 2: the myth of the dream job. I was like, there's

492
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 2: no dream job. Don't let them tell you that.

493
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's no job, and what it is it's like

494
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 4: this pumped up lifestyle version and that that's a problem

495
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 4: because also similar to a partner who is not going

496
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 4: to check every box of your life. A job and

497
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 4: a career is also not going to do that. So

498
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 4: we were talking about not dealing with your internal stuff.

499
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 4: Some people are looking for that. They're looking for this

500
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 4: job that will like check all these boxes, and then

501
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 4: they're so disappointed when they get there and they're like,

502
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 4: it's not what I thought it was going to be.

503
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 3: And it's like, but maybe we need to peel.

504
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 4: This back and realize that your expectations of what you

505
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 4: think a job should be and what it owes you

506
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 4: and whatever is unrealistic, and so you're on this constant

507
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,959
Speaker 4: cycle of yes that the myth is what's keeping you

508
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 4: stuck and unfulfilled more than any more than any job

509
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 4: or boss or anything like that.

510
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 2: Is Yeah, I totally agree. And I have a friend

511
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 2: who talks about this a lot. And she is someone

512
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 2: who just like she hates the idea of a dream

513
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 2: job for the reason that her purpose is never gonna

514
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 2: lie in what she's getting paid to do, Like this

515
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 2: is just something like the thing that she loves the

516
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 2: most in the world is not something she will ever

517
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 2: get paid to do, and so it's it's just really

518
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 2: interesting to her to hear from her and her being like,

519
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 2: I don't care where I work, I still have purpose.

520
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna I'm not looking for my job to

521
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 2: fulfill me one hundred percent. Like that is not my

522
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 2: job's job, you know what I mean. Like, that's not

523
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 2: what I'm doing this for. I'm doing this for a

524
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 2: paycheck and other thing that I absolutely love. How you

525
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 2: referred to relationships as well, there's the ninety ten rule,

526
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: which says that a lot of the time people throw

527
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 2: away a relationship that is ninety percent fulfilling because they

528
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 2: are missing their ten percent, and then they find someone

529
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 2: who is the ten percent and that doesn't last because

530
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 2: they're like, actually, this is just like all the things

531
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 2: I may have wanted, but it sucks. And I find

532
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: that in careers as well, and as someone who is

533
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 2: h I'm about to completely like double cross myself be

534
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 2: a hypocrite as someone who's working their dream job, like

535
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: basically at this point, like this is the best job

536
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 2: I could ever hope for. There are still times when

537
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 2: it really sucks and I think about going back. If

538
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 2: I think about like going back to do hospital or

539
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: just something or something else, because it's not secure, it's

540
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,239
Speaker 2: there's just so many other factors that you give up, right,

541
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 2: it's the trade off as well. I feel like we're

542
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 2: just talking, We're talking through so many hypotheticals here. I

543
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: want to ask you, like a very pointed question. Now,

544
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: what do you have What kind of advice do you

545
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: have for someone who wants to change careers but it's

546
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: concerned about starting over financially and you said it's taking

547
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: five months. I don't have five months of savings. How

548
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 2: do we probably prepare for that change?

549
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I think a couple of things.

550
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 4: One always be job searching in the in a way

551
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 4: where and what I mean by that is you should

552
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 4: always be thinking about your personal and professional brand upskilling networking.

553
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 4: Networking is not just with people you know. It can

554
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 4: also be networking within your company, building relationships with people

555
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 4: at work. Also networking, especially if you do want to

556
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 4: make a career transition. When I often tell people is like, well,

557
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 4: the people in your current network probably aren't going to

558
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 4: be able to help you get to this new place

559
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 4: because they're part of your old place. So you need

560
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 4: to find what I call bridge connections. You know, So

561
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 4: if you are and here's the thing, you're not necessarily

562
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 4: starting over. But would you be removing a like the

563
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 4: security of a paycheck if you were to say I'm

564
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 4: going to quit my job and then find a new job,

565
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 4: or probably more more likely scenario is I was laid

566
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 4: off and now I need to find a new job

567
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 4: right So, because most people, I think in this job market,

568
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 4: if they want to switch jobs, they're probably going to

569
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 4: keep their current job while they're searching. So let's just

570
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 4: go with like you were laid off, you were fired,

571
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 4: or you don't have a job right now and you

572
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 4: want to find something now.

573
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 3: There is no.

574
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 4: Harm in taking a quote bridge job to create some

575
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 4: income for yourself and have that as a trade off

576
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 4: while you are job searching. Nothing about taking you know,

577
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 4: the grocery store job or the job at the at

578
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 4: target means that you're there forever right like your one

579
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 4: move does not dictate the rest of your life. And

580
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 4: also I would say like for someone who was a recruiter,

581
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 4: I would actually be very impressed to be like, Okay,

582
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 4: you haven't had you've been job searching for four months,

583
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 4: what have you been doing with your time?

584
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 3: You're gonna get asked a question like that.

585
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 4: And so by being able to say, like, you know,

586
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 4: I walked dogs for the neighborhood, I took on babysitting,

587
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 4: I did some freelancing of this and that that shows

588
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 4: me that you have drive and you take initiative, and

589
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 4: that you're hungry for something new. So, you know, being

590
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 4: open about I'm making a career change, I'm doing something different,

591
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,479
Speaker 4: I think is like and then connecting it to all

592
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 4: the cool things that you're doing to get there, I

593
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 4: think is great. The other thing, if you wanted to

594
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 4: make a career transition right now, or you were job searching,

595
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 4: I think one of the best things you can do

596
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 4: is go have informational interviews with people who are doing

597
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 4: the job at ideally the company you want to work at.

598
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 4: So can you learn from these informational interviews what the

599
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 4: job is like there, maybe what skills gaps that you have.

600
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 4: Who do they hire, why do they hire them, what

601
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 4: do they look for and to hire? What did they

602
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 4: like about the culture. One of the things when I

603
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 4: was working as an admin assistant, hated my job and

604
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 4: I really wanted to become a recruiter. I started having

605
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 4: informational interviews with recruiters. Now, none of those informational interviews

606
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,719
Speaker 4: led me to a referral for a job. But what

607
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 4: they did do is when I did get my job

608
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 4: interview at Hulu for recruiting, I was able to tell them,

609
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 4: I know, I don't have prior quote quie, you know, recruiting.

610
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 4: I don't have quote prior recruiting experience. But what I

611
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 4: do have is I've had thirty informational interviews with recruiters

612
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 4: and I've learned this and this and this about recruiting,

613
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 4: and here's how my experience, my transferable skills actually are

614
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 4: a really good fit. So, for example, in recruiting, you

615
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 4: guys care a lot about candidate experience. And I know

616
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 4: this part's really important. I don't have candidates, but I

617
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 4: work with students. Students are my candidates, and here's how.

618
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 4: And so I'm speaking the same language that they might

619
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 4: be doing in an interview and for the person on

620
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 4: the other end, And I know this for a fact.

621
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 4: I got their job at Hulu obviously because I was

622
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 4: the most experienced, but definitely because I wanted the job

623
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 4: the most and I was, you know, going above and beyond.

624
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 4: So do not let your prior or experience or education

625
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 4: or anything like that stop you from the thing that

626
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 4: you want to do. Part of it is creating a

627
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 4: game plan of how are we going to connect the

628
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 4: dots from where you are right now to where you're

629
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 4: going to go next. And like I said, bridge jobs

630
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 4: are totally appropriate, but we still want to be able

631
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 4: to have this informational interviews. Can you know, listen to podcasts,

632
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 4: watch online courses about you know, you want to be

633
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 4: a community manager, what do they do, and then see

634
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 4: if you can start to you know, tailor your resume

635
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 4: and tailor your LinkedIn profile and taylor your networking experience

636
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 4: or what you talk about the story that you tell

637
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,959
Speaker 4: people about yourself and your experience so that it's going

638
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 4: to be very relevant to them. I have this quote

639
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 4: that I heard someone say that I love, which is

640
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 4: show the ten percent of you that is one hundred

641
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 4: percent relevant to them. You know, they don't need to

642
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 4: know your whole life story. They need to know, like

643
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 4: what part of you is going to be really important

644
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 4: for them to know if you're transitioning careers. It's not

645
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 4: I quit my job where I got laid off. The

646
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 4: point is I am really excited about online marketing and

647
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 4: here's what I've been doing to connect the dots between

648
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 4: what I was doing before and why I want to

649
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 4: get into and start in online marketing.

650
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: That enthusiasm factor is massive. It is so massive, because

651
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: we were just talking about it, sometimes people who have

652
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 2: who have slided into this career and maybe burnt out

653
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 2: and stuck and not going to bring that same level

654
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: of freshness and newness that people like so desperately want.

655
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like you can teach skills, you can't teach attitude,

656
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 4: you know what I mean?

657
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and you can't like breathe new life into

658
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 2: someone like if you know what I mean, like you

659
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 2: kind of have to cut Yeah. I just think that's

660
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 2: such a it's actually such an asset. Probably one of

661
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: the reasons you got hired at Hullo as well, what

662
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 2: you just said, it's because you was you wanted it

663
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: the most, and they knew that you were going to

664
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 2: bring that into that job. Another thing that one of

665
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: my friends recently had an experience like that, and she

666
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 2: has since found a much better job in a much

667
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 2: different field, and it's like a huge success story of

668
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: what we're talking about. And some of the things she

669
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: did in the meantime was she taught herself a new skill.

670
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: She taught herself how to be really really good at Excel,

671
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 2: which is super random. I think if you've ever worked

672
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: a corporate job, you know how valuable XL is. Like

673
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: I still know how to do all my functions from

674
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: when I was a consultant, Like it's so valuable. Another

675
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: one is like audio editing or learning how to do

676
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: design work. She taught herself a new skill, and she

677
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: also made her own project for her while she was

678
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: job hunting. I always think about what's that man's name,

679
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: that famous man, Matt Damon. I always think about Matt

680
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: Damon and Ben Affleck and how they weren't getting hired

681
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 2: for jobs and they weren't getting like acting gigs, and

682
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 2: so they just were like, fuck it, I'm gonna write

683
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: my own script. And sometimes you need to do that. Obviously,

684
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 2: it's not maybe won't make you into a quadruple millionaire

685
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 2: that they are now, but just being like, oh, whilst

686
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 2: I was, you know, unemployed, I like started my own business,

687
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 2: like doing reorganizing, or I started my own business like

688
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 2: selling online content, like or help as like a social

689
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: media manager. Like small things like that that show once

690
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: again that you have initiative, but also give you a

691
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,959
Speaker 2: new skill for you to bring into this new career.

692
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 2: You know. I think it's a misconception that to change

693
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: careers you suddenly you need to go back to school

694
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 2: or you need to get a whole new degree. Can

695
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: you talk about that a bit. I think that's like

696
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: a huge one that I come across a lot.

697
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

698
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 4: I think that's why the informational interviews are so valuable

699
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 4: because you can ask them, you know, would you hire

700
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 4: someone who can you know, has learned these skills via

701
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 4: online learning and on the job and through real experience,

702
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 4: or do you prefer to see additional education And they'll

703
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 4: probably tell you real life learning of the skills is

704
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 4: more valuable to me than however many degrees you have. Now,

705
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 4: it always depends on what it is that you're doing.

706
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 4: If you want to be a doctor, we need you

707
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 4: to go through med school, you know. But I think

708
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 4: it's I would not drop kick to paying for, you know,

709
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 4: additional education before I've exhausted all my free options and

710
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 4: the ability to like for myself to test out and

711
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 4: experiment and build things, And I would start there first

712
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 4: one hundred times over.

713
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: It's really interesting because I actually when you say, like lived,

714
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: experience is better. I have a politics degree, and I

715
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 2: have a philosophy degree and an economics degree. Do I

716
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: use those? No? No, So, like if someone if I

717
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 2: was to walk into like a position for an economist

718
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 2: and be like, oh, yeah, I have a degree, but

719
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: I've never done anything like this ever before, I really

720
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 2: could probably only apply my knowledge of UNI and that

721
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: was years ago.

722
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, experience is always going to speak much

723
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 4: louder than degrees and words, you know. I think, you know,

724
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 4: for a lot of people, having the college degree is

725
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 4: like kind of that first step. But even now today,

726
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 4: like I mean, my kids are really young, but if

727
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 4: my kids get ready to go to college, I'm probably

728
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 4: going to ask them, well, what are you studying?

729
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 3: Is there?

730
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 4: Because you might not even need to go to university

731
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 4: at some point, you know, you might be able to

732
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 4: learn everything via on the job learning and through you

733
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 4: can literally pretty much learn anything via YouTube videos if

734
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 4: you really wanted to, or TikTok videos at this point,

735
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 4: you know, so, I absolutely, especially for the advanced degree thing.

736
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 4: I'm always hesitant to ever give the advice of like, yeah,

737
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 4: go and pay for this thing.

738
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 2: Now.

739
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 4: Some people are like, I need the accountability. I need

740
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 4: to be able to show up in person. You're that

741
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 4: you're talking about something a little different. You could hire

742
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 4: a career coach to help you and work with you.

743
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 4: That would be a lot cheaper than going through an

744
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 4: academic program.

745
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, Especially I find this a lot with my

746
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 2: friends who are like they've reached kind of like a

747
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: plateau at like twenty five, twenty six, and a lot

748
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 2: of them are like, I'm going to go do my

749
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: masters because in Australia, like the government pays like, yeah,

750
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 2: it's a lot easier.

751
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: To do it.

752
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: The government pays your alone for you, and it's just

753
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 2: like it it's just like almost like a limbo point.

754
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 3: It's like taking a bridge job.

755
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 4: You know, you're like bridging between wherever you're going to go.

756
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 3: Next, and you're going to buy time.

757
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 4: And I will say there are plenty of people in

758
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 4: the US that they just pay for it, which is

759
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 4: not the best idea, but where they enroll in the

760
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 4: master's program because they're like, I'm not totally sure what

761
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 4: i want to do, and I'm gonna kind of buy

762
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 4: some time doing something productive. And so many of us,

763
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 4: when you're in your twenties, the thing you know, more

764
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,720
Speaker 4: than work is school. You know, you've been a student

765
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 4: way longer than you've been in a worker.

766
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and especially when you're sold this very traditional path

767
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 2: of like more education equals more opportunities, Like I don't

768
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 2: necessarily think that's the case anymore, actually, And I think

769
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 2: also I've been reading lots of articles about people being

770
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 2: like actually, like like you said with your kids, like

771
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 2: it's a waste of money. It's a waste of money

772
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: for what I want to get into. Turning back to

773
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: someone who is at that turning point, at that crossroads,

774
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 2: ready to change, totally, ready to find a new job,

775
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 2: ready to try whatever it takes to shift to this

776
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 2: new path. What are some of the key challenges you

777
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: think they might encounter and how can they be prepared

778
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 2: for them so that when they happen they're not terrifying

779
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 2: and cause them to retreat. What are some of the

780
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 2: key challenges you think they might encounter and how can

781
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 2: they be prepared for them so that when they happen,

782
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 2: they're not terrifying and cause them to retreat.

783
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, Amil will just say rejection is part of the process, right,

784
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 4: So you're going to apply for jobs and not get them.

785
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 4: You're going to have interviews that don't go well, you know,

786
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 4: I You're going to have informational interviews where you reach

787
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 4: out on the person never gets back to you, never

788
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 4: get to have it. So you know, part of this

789
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 4: is trying to figure out what parts of this process

790
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 4: can I control and what parts do I not have

791
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 4: control over?

792
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 3: And also.

793
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 4: Not giving up because you had one bad moment. Like

794
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,919
Speaker 4: I joke that like if your resume got rejected, let's

795
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 4: say they're spending it seven seconds on average looking at

796
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 4: your resume. That's if they even did look at your resume,

797
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 4: Like that can't be taken as a personal.

798
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 3: Rejection, and Okay, you should give up.

799
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 4: Because what does that person know, right, they spent seven

800
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 4: seconds looking over something.

801
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 3: But there are some.

802
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 4: Tips that you can do that give you a better chance, like,

803
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 4: for example, creating a really great master resume and then

804
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 4: tailoring that resume for each job that you apply for.

805
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 4: That is something that is totally in your control. People

806
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 4: always ask how do I tailor it? You're going to

807
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 4: tailor it based on what the job description and the

808
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 4: company are looking for, so you're able to take your

809
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 4: experience and how can you again take those transferable skills

810
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 4: and make them work for what that company needs. Now,

811
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 4: can you, when you apply for a job, go back

812
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 4: to that informational interview that you had at that job

813
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 4: and say, I recently applied for this job. Would you

814
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 4: be able to refer me? Can I send my resume

815
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 4: to you and you send it to a hiring manager.

816
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 4: That's within your control. You're able to send you know,

817
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 4: prep really well before an interview by researching the company,

818
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 4: researching who you're going to interview with, sending a thank

819
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 4: you note after. Those are things that you can control.

820
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 4: You can have a practice interview with your best friend,

821
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 4: your mom, your career coach, whoever. Those are things that

822
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 4: you can control. I think that focusing on what you

823
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 4: can control versus, you know, letting one thing kind of

824
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:38,959
Speaker 4: fall out of place and then it kind of takes

825
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 4: everything down for you. It's not it's like an overall

826
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 4: lesson in life is like that's not going to go

827
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 4: very well because stuff happens and you have to be

828
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 4: able to adapt and go a plan B. The other

829
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 4: thing I always tell people, I'm like, there's no one

830
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 4: right way to job search, so like apply to jobs online,

831
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 4: you know, cold apply to jobs online also as your network,

832
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 4: you know, create sample projects of like if the job

833
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 4: you're applying to is a social media manager, create a

834
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 4: fake social media account for them, or show real graphics

835
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 4: of the content you would create if you were to

836
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 4: get hired there, Like you have the ability to put

837
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 4: your best foot forward and control those things. Now, there

838
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 4: are so many reasons why people do and do not

839
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 4: get jobs, and we can't always control those, and you know,

840
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 4: it's humans making decisions about other humans.

841
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 3: So that's why I say that.

842
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 4: And one of the worst things that can happen in

843
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 4: a job search, and I see it happen all the time,

844
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 4: is like people don't start getting traction, so then they

845
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 4: start to like really kind of lose faith and hope

846
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 4: in their own abilities. And it's kind of like this

847
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 4: insecurity and negativity, you know, imposter syndrome versus a growth

848
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,720
Speaker 4: mindset sometimes is a slippery slope.

849
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 3: You know.

850
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 4: The growth mindset is the person who says, I'm going

851
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 4: to get there and I trust in my ability to

852
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 4: learn and adapt and keep going and be resilient, and

853
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 4: the imposter syndrome person is, well, you're not getting jobs

854
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 4: because you know you're not that good about you don't

855
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 4: really know what you're doing anyways, Like this is a

856
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 4: long shot anyways, And so being able to manage those

857
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 4: thoughts is also really important in a huge life skill.

858
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 4: So that's why I've always been a big fan of, like,

859
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 4: find another friend who's job searching with you so you

860
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 4: can share this stuff so that they can be your

861
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 4: hype woman when you need to, and vice versa. I

862
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 4: think all of that is really important in job searches.

863
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 4: There's a lot of moving parts that happen with it.

864
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 4: So yeah, and then the other thing is do not

865
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,720
Speaker 4: forget about the power of LinkedIn, having an optimized profile,

866
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 4: networking with people on LinkedIn, leaving engaged comments. I just

867
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 4: did an entire podcast episode about the power of LinkedIn comments,

868
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 4: and that's something you have control over, you know. So

869
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 4: I like to shift people back to the things that

870
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 4: you can control versus the things you can't control. The

871
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 4: other thing I would say is if you're in that

872
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 4: part is think about the companies that you want to

873
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 4: apply for.

874
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 3: So sometimes it's a little.

875
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 4: Scary to be like I'm just going to apply to

876
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 4: any job that comes at me that I'm in rested. Yeah,

877
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 4: and so one of the things I've always been a

878
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 4: fan of and I'm not saying this is the only way,

879
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 4: but sometimes I feel like it can narrow it down

880
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 4: a little bit for you if you're feeling overwhelmed by saying, Okay,

881
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 4: let's just focus on what are your target companies? Why

882
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 4: are they your target companies? Do you only want to

883
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 4: work for remote companies? Do you only want to work

884
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 4: for companies whose products you're obsessed with?

885
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 3: You know?

886
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 4: Do you only want to work for companies that are

887
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 4: on the best Companies to work for lists? You know

888
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 4: that kind of thing, like you look, no one's like

889
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 4: double checking your work, So it can be for any reason.

890
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 4: It can be that they have a bigger, longer vacation policy.

891
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,919
Speaker 4: I don't really care. My point being is like, get

892
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 4: some clarity over why this company interests you, and can

893
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 4: you dive a little deeper to learn about it? And

894
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 4: you know, learn about the company, Listen to the podcasts

895
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 4: with their leaders, see if they have earning calls that

896
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 4: you can check in with. Do they have events that

897
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 4: you can go to or online events? Can you follow

898
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,240
Speaker 4: them on social media? You know, all of those things

899
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 4: add up.

900
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: Also, Yeah, I ars agree, it's about I think it's

901
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 2: just like having an exploratory mindset and one that's like

902
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 2: one of abundance and being like, I'm going to get

903
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 2: this job, and I'm going to show them that I

904
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 2: want this job, and I'm going to keep all my

905
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 2: doors open, can I I'm going to finish up by

906
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 2: asking you one more question, maybe two, maybe two, And

907
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: what advice would you give for someone who's taking in

908
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 2: a less conventional career path who wants to do something

909
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 2: that's like not necessarily a job that you can apply

910
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 2: for through LinkedIn or through seek. I'm thinking people normally

911
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 2: like in creative jobs, photographers, people who want to start

912
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 2: their own businesses, podcasters, that kind of thing.

913
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think for anybody who's starting something that maybe

914
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 4: isn't like a job that you apply to online, like

915
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 4: just get started. You know, my very first podcast episode

916
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 4: is not as good as the podcast episode I have today,

917
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 4: But thank goodness, I started and I started practicing, you know,

918
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 4: and I just got out there. I recently started creating

919
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 4: content on LinkedIn, and I was like, oh my god,

920
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 4: my first like five posts are not that good. I

921
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 4: didn't understand like the best way to like write your

922
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 4: content and format it on LinkedIn, and guess what, I

923
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 4: keep doing it every day, not because I love having

924
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 4: one more thing to do, but because I want to

925
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 4: get better at it. So if you are, you know,

926
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 4: building your own brand or your own business, something to

927
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 4: think about is like just get started and then by

928
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 4: starting you will start to iron out some of the wrinkles.

929
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 4: Connect with other people who are doing the stuff that

930
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 4: you want to do, because they will be your best

931
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 4: teachers and advocates and people you can go to. The

932
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 4: other thing, I guess is probably on the financial same

933
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 4: way as like how are you going to make money?

934
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 4: You know, like if you're going to be a photographer,

935
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 4: like how are you planning on charging people? What are

936
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,399
Speaker 4: your packages? Like laying stuff out versus being a little

937
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 4: loosey goosey. I think people like to have options, too

938
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 4: many options, you know, and then also making it easy

939
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 4: for them to make those decisions and personal branding slash

940
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 4: you know, marketing, I guess is a big piece of

941
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 4: all of that. You know, if you're going to be

942
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 4: a podcaster, how are you going to get people to

943
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 4: listen to your show?

944
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: You know?

945
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 4: Are you just going to build it and then hope

946
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 4: that they come. They probably won't you know, So are

947
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 4: you going to also start sharing it on LinkedIn? Are

948
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 4: you going to start an Instagram channel on TikTok? Are

949
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 4: you going to recycle the content?

950
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 1: So?

951
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 2: You know?

952
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 4: As a content creator today, I don't. I didn't go

953
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 4: to school to become a content creator, but I learned

954
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 4: by doing and watching other people, reading their blog posts,

955
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 4: you know, and just iterating along the way too. I

956
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 4: think if you're doing a less traditional career path, it's

957
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 4: something more creative. It just requires you to not just

958
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 4: do that thing. You also probably are going to have

959
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 4: to be like, for example, you're a podcast, you own

960
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 4: a business. You understand you don't just get to podcast

961
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 4: some days. You also have to think about like taxes

962
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 4: and payroll or you know that kind of stuff. So

963
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 4: just something to think about is that, you know, running

964
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 4: a business is a whole other set of skills besides

965
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 4: just that. I think a lot of people start running

966
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 4: a business because they're like, I really love photography. Well,

967
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 4: there are probably other career paths that you can do

968
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 4: that include photography, and it doesn't necessarily mean that you

969
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 4: have to start your own business. I think I'm also

970
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 4: sensitive to this because I think for a while at

971
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 4: least my generation, the millennial women generation, I think we

972
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 4: were constantly told if work isn't working for you, just

973
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 4: become your own boss, become a quote girl boss. And

974
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 4: I don't think that's the answer for everybody either. So

975
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 4: I think that for some people, entrepreneurship is a great

976
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 4: path and for some people it's like I'm very creative

977
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 4: and I like to create, but I really want the security,

978
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 4: and no job is providing you one hundred percent security,

979
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 4: But like, I want to do it on a larger

980
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 4: scale for a bigger company. You know, I want to

981
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 4: go work for CANBA where I'm helping do design work

982
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 4: or something like that. So just something to think about

983
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 4: is like, also, who are you as a person? Entrepreneurship

984
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 4: comes with high highs, low lows, uncertainty. It's not that

985
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 4: a corporate career doesn't come with that. It comes with

986
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 4: its own slew of things. You know, the grass is

987
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 4: not greener anywhere. And I had this woman on the

988
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 4: podcast who was like, the grass is green wherever you

989
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 4: water it, And it's like, yeah, so where do you

990
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 4: want to invest your time and energy? You know, because

991
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 4: wherever you are, you're gonna be watering the grass.

992
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 3: You have to.

993
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 2: And you know what, I will say this about working

994
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,439
Speaker 2: for yourself, being an entrepreneur, starting your own business, whatever

995
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 2: it is, you have to love what you're doing one

996
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty percent, maybe even two hundred percent, because

997
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 2: when you start doing it for yourself, you're gonna love

998
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 2: it a lot less because you will suddenly have to

999
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 2: deal with a lot of things that you didn't want

1000
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 2: to deal with. The one for me is like, yeah,

1001
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 2: obviously it's just like admin and taxes and talking to

1002
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 2: my lawyer and like things like that. And then it's

1003
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 2: also like receiving negative comments and doing social media. Like

1004
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: I did not start a podcast thinking that I would

1005
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 2: have to do social media as much as I did

1006
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 2: as I do. It's like such a hassle and like

1007
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 2: I didn't go to school for that either. So I

1008
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 2: think it is about exactly The perfect place to end

1009
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 2: is exactly as you said, the grass is greenest where

1010
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 2: you water it. And I honestly think that you can

1011
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 2: be watering two lawns at once, waiting to shift over

1012
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 2: to that second lawn over there and let the other

1013
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 2: one die off. But it's like all about being realistic

1014
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: about like what you can achieve and in what timeframe

1015
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 2: that's my I'm gonna say that as a final piece

1016
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: of advice, like you don't have to have it all

1017
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 2: sorted out in the next six months. There's always a

1018
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 2: sense of like huge, massive urgency in our twenties to

1019
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 2: get everything instantly. Sometimes it's gonna take a little bit longer,

1020
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 2: but it's still gonna be worth it in the end. Look,

1021
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 2: that's a beautiful place to end. I want to say

1022
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 2: thank you so much Lauren for coming on. Honestly, I

1023
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 2: was taking notes. I think you could say of like

1024
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: your advice, being like, oh yep, we gotta take that,

1025
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 2: gonna pass that on, like it is genuinely so so useful,

1026
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 2: so practical. If you want to hear more from Lauren,

1027
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 2: you should go and follow the Career Contesta podcast with

1028
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 2: Dear Media. I've actually listened to a few episodes, and

1029
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 2: you know what it's I love when shows actually give

1030
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 2: you practical things to do.

1031
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's pretty much what we do all the time.

1032
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 4: You know, career advice delivered an actual bite size like

1033
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 4: do this, do that. I found that again, career advice

1034
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 4: can sometimes be a little abstract, and people like tangible.

1035
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 4: They need that in order to move forward, So that's.

1036
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 2: What we do. Yeah, it's really really useful if you're

1037
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 2: thinking about changing careers again. I will leave all of

1038
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 2: Lauren's links and career Contesta links in the description of

1039
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 2: this episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you

1040
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: enjoyed it, please feel free to share with someone else

1041
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 2: who might get something out of this episode and leave

1042
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 2: a five star review. You can also follow us at

1043
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 2: that Psychology podcast if you have some feedback, something to

1044
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 2: say about this episode, further questions, or of course, an

1045
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: episode's suggestion. We always love to hear from you, and

1046
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 2: we will be back next week with another episode.