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Speaker 1: My tanger never gotten what you wanted. If you wanted

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Speaker 1: to be a brady teenager and like fight with mom,

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Speaker 1: she was not going to sit there and cry with

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Speaker 1: you nick going on and get a fight. She was

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Speaker 1: going to turn and watch er. Hello, Hi guys, UM,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the first episode. This is the first real

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Speaker 1: episode of You Need Therapy. UM. I could not be

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Speaker 1: more excited. I have been waiting on this, like on

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Speaker 1: my toes for almost a month now. But before we

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Speaker 1: get started, I just want to give a huge shout

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Speaker 1: out to Alex Booth, who is the creator of that

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Speaker 1: intro music. Alex is a good friend of mine all

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Speaker 1: the way back from high school. If you want to

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Speaker 1: follow his music account, that would be greatly appreciated. His

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Speaker 1: UM instagram is at booth Tunes so b o O

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Speaker 1: t h TU and E S Alex. I'm grateful for you,

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Speaker 1: Thank you so so much. Let's jump into this. So.

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Speaker 1: My name is Catherine, UM. I'm from Nashville. I'm a

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Speaker 1: therapist here. UM. If you want to know like a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about me, you can listen to the

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Speaker 1: in the intro. I'm really excited about this episode, and

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Speaker 1: UM for more than one reason. Right like it's the

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Speaker 1: first one and this is the my jam right here

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Speaker 1: what we're gonna be talking about. So, UM, let me

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Speaker 1: tell you a little bit about the episode and then

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Speaker 1: we'll jump in. So we're doing attachment theory today. If

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Speaker 1: you don't know what that is, that's totally fine. We

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Speaker 1: start from the very beginning. If you do know what

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Speaker 1: that is awesome. Even better, maybe you'll learn something new. UM. So,

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Speaker 1: attachment theory is the foundation of what I use for

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Speaker 1: the background of all my work. It's kind of the

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Speaker 1: lens that I look at things through. UM. So the

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Speaker 1: reason I want to do this first is I think

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Speaker 1: I'll reference it a lot as we talk about different things,

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Speaker 1: and UM will also create a foundation for you guys

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Speaker 1: as you guys are listening and seeing what what fits

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Speaker 1: for you and what you relate to as we go

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Speaker 1: through this stuff. So with that being said, as you listen,

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Speaker 1: I want you guys to take some notes, whether that's

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Speaker 1: mental or like actually on your phone or on paper,

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Speaker 1: and what parts of this make you think, what parts

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Speaker 1: that you connect to UM where you feel like you

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Speaker 1: can relate. And my hope is that learning about this

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Speaker 1: will be a catalyst to better understand yourself and your relationships,

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Speaker 1: and if there's room for improvement, which we can all

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Speaker 1: just like be humble here. We always have room to improve. Um,

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Speaker 1: you can find an appropriate means to work towards that

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Speaker 1: using some of this information. I'm not going to tell

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Speaker 1: you a lot about that now, because me and Kelly

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Speaker 1: do that together. And so with that being said, let

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Speaker 1: me tell you about the guests, um that you're about

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Speaker 1: to hear from. So this worked out perfectly. The timing,

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Speaker 1: which I'm like so excited about. Uh, Kelly, I just

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Speaker 1: she lives in Billy. She'll explain that. My friends and

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Speaker 1: I just went to Memphis for the St. Jude Marathon

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Speaker 1: and a couple of us ran and I called Kelly

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Speaker 1: to see if she could come surprise her best friend Sarah,

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Speaker 1: who was my roommate, and so she did that, and

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Speaker 1: so it was perfect. I was like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be here, Let's let's tape this. Let me

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Speaker 1: tell you about Kelly. I could talk about her forever.

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Speaker 1: But Kelly is one of my very oldest friends. I

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Speaker 1: met her when I was in eighth grade. UM, and

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Speaker 1: when I was talking to my roommate Sarah about this

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Speaker 1: episode that I wanted to do. She's the one that

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Speaker 1: immediately was like, oh my god, Kelly needs to do

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Speaker 1: this for multiple reasons. She's one of the most self assured, loving, fun, honest,

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Speaker 1: like a good route word to describe her as true.

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Speaker 1: That just feels good to me when I think of Kelly. Um.

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Speaker 1: The conversations I have with her are always so rich.

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Speaker 1: So even if we're just like driving to the grocery store,

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Speaker 1: which I guess we don't really do that much because

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Speaker 1: she doesn't live here anymore, but you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: Like anywhere we go as an opportunity to have a

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Speaker 1: rich conversation with her. She she kind of seizes every

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Speaker 1: moment she has. Um she listens really really well, So

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Speaker 1: she's somebody that like you can sit and talk with.

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Speaker 1: But also she talks, which is nice. And she's someone

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Speaker 1: who's always okay with learning more. She's never done it, seems,

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Speaker 1: seeking understanding and information, which I love. And she's also

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Speaker 1: the very opposite of me in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 1: which it'll be nice for you guys to have two

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Speaker 1: perspectives as we talk about this, because we have pretty

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Speaker 1: different ways we view the world. I was talking with

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Speaker 1: somebody who met her uh on Sunday night, and he

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Speaker 1: said the next day that he really liked her and

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Speaker 1: his impression within I mean, he was only with over

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes. She's someone who you can feel her confidence

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Speaker 1: in her like self assuredness, and that's so true. Meeting

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Speaker 1: her as like meeting a comfortable old friend. To me,

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Speaker 1: I never have any anxiousness introducing to her to people.

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Speaker 1: She can get along with anybody. She's so warm and open,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's because she's so okay with herself

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Speaker 1: and because she's just so okay with herself. Um, it

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Speaker 1: made this episode cool because she was allowing herself to

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Speaker 1: really learn about things, and instead of finding shame in it,

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Speaker 1: she it's more of an understanding oh okay, which is

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Speaker 1: why I hope that you guys can get a little

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Speaker 1: taste of that anyway. Uh One more thing about Kelly

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Speaker 1: is she was sick when we filmed this episode. Uh

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Speaker 1: So there are some moments where you can like and

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Speaker 1: now I love that she was willing to do this

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Speaker 1: even though she was sick. But there are some uh

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Speaker 1: long moments where you can hear her breathing into the microphone,

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Speaker 1: which I didn't um realized until I was editing this

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Speaker 1: and the stuff was too good to redo it. And again,

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Speaker 1: she lives in Philly. So you guys, just like this

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Speaker 1: is you know, a little gift of improf action here

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Speaker 1: that u um, the audio is not perfect, but if anything,

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Speaker 1: you know, give her some some grace in the in

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Speaker 1: the fact that she was sick and still willing to

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Speaker 1: help me out. So I guess let's just go into it. Hi, Kelly, Hi, Katherine,

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Speaker 1: how are you doing it. I'm a little under the

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Speaker 1: weather today, but yeah, I'm all right, drinking some throat

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Speaker 1: coat tea. I don't know, my voice feels funny. I

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Speaker 1: throw her cool. Yeah, so everybody come that she's sick

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Speaker 1: and that's why her voice sounds like it and it

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Speaker 1: doesn't really sound like that, but my voice just sounds

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Speaker 1: like this her real voice. Yeah, this is my real voice. Um. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I'm very excited about today. So this is the

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Speaker 1: first real episode. Still cool. Yeah, how do you feel

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Speaker 1: that I chose you to be on it? Well? Like

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Speaker 1: so honored? Okay, Yeah, nervous. No, I love talking about

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Speaker 1: whatever we're gonna talk about talking about. Kelly has no

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Speaker 1: idea what we're going to talk about. I told her.

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Speaker 1: So I told her that we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: attachment theory, but I told her not to look it up.

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Speaker 1: And how did that make you feel? Fine? Like, I

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Speaker 1: like um ambiguity and I like keeping on the edge

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Speaker 1: of my seat, so I was not tempted one time

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Speaker 1: to look it up. Are you lying? Okay? I picked

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Speaker 1: you for specific reasons that will get too super I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited, um. But before we do that, I have

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Speaker 1: a couple of questions for you. So these people, because

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Speaker 1: I know you very well, and some people that are

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Speaker 1: listening to this are gonna know you very well, but

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Speaker 1: some people have no idea who you are. UM. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not really famous, so I don't get famous guests

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Speaker 1: on my podcast. So can you, UM, tell the people

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Speaker 1: just a little bit about yourself, Like where are you

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Speaker 1: from or where do you live, what do you do?

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Speaker 1: How are you? Are you married? Are you single? Are

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Speaker 1: you divorced? What's what's going on with you? Okay? Um?

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Speaker 1: I was raised like halfway between Texas and Nashville to

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Speaker 1: nationals Now. I live in Philadelphia. I love Philadelphia a lot. Um.

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Speaker 1: I am twenty nine years old. I work in construction

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Speaker 1: management and interior design in real estate development. Um, I

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Speaker 1: am not married. I am recently out of a very

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Speaker 1: long term relationship, and uh how it's a very long term.

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Speaker 1: Um seven years. Okay, okay, um, I would like you

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Speaker 1: to tell the people how you know me? Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: my pleasure. UM. I met Catherine Defata beginning of eighth grade.

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Speaker 1: I was going to put a year to that. I

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Speaker 1: don't even know what year that was, to be honest.

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Speaker 1: Three um social studies, Mr Marley. I I remember from

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Speaker 1: that class the biggest Things you and the preamble. Yeah

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Speaker 1: it was the first period. Yeah, I mean like the preamble.

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Speaker 1: He taught us that song about the preamble. We the people.

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Speaker 1: You always remember that. I really don't remember you stand

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Speaker 1: on the chair and sing it. I mean that's like

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Speaker 1: a vague memory to me. Anyway, I thought it was

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Speaker 1: important to keep going. I remember reading Enders Game being fourced.

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Speaker 1: It was like our cricket and I was like, why

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Speaker 1: are we reading enders Game, a science fiction future novel

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Speaker 1: in social studies, which is supposed to be historical. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I just just like so confused. But anyways,

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Speaker 1: we we made out like bandits best friends. We've been

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Speaker 1: through a lot. Yeah, it's been a long time. Um.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we met in eighth grade and it's great

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Speaker 1: and we've been friends. Sense have you? I asked this

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Speaker 1: to everybody. Have you ever been to therapy? Yes? Two sessions?

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Speaker 1: Only the two I didn't know. Yeah, I remember when

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Speaker 1: I was calling you and was like, how do I

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Speaker 1: find one? And oh my god, you only went to

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Speaker 1: two sessions. Yeah. I wasn't sure, like I was having

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Speaker 1: all these qualms because I was like, am I supposed

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Speaker 1: to really like my therapist as a person? Like what

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Speaker 1: I want to hang out with her? Am I supposed

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Speaker 1: to relate to her? Or she supposed to relate to me? Am?

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Speaker 1: I supposed to not have relatability to my therapist? Is

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Speaker 1: that better? Um? And I found that like it just

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Speaker 1: was not. She just was not the right fit for

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Speaker 1: me personally and the topics I wanted to like go over,

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Speaker 1: um because she was married and pregnant and it just

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Felt that's like a hot topic of

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Speaker 1: like does my therapists have to be somebody that's like

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Speaker 1: in the same life, um stages me. Does it have

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Speaker 1: to be uh the same gender as me? Did if

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Speaker 1: you see the same religion? Like all that stuff. I

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Speaker 1: have mixed feelings on it. Yeah, and I know that

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Speaker 1: for me. My current therapist, Um, the reason I liked

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Speaker 1: her so much in the beginning, it is because she

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Speaker 1: told me part of her story and it was like

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Speaker 1: what I was going you at the time, and so

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, if you can get

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Speaker 1: to where you are right now, then I can get

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Speaker 1: through this. I think I was searching and seeking a

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Speaker 1: level of relatability with my therapist and I was just really, well,

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Speaker 1: what's the relationship is the most important part? So well, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so I felt really bad because I kind of

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Speaker 1: ghosted her and I just never came back. And but

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Speaker 1: I've intended to go find a new one, do you know,

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Speaker 1: just so you don't feel bad. I don't think we

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Speaker 1: ever take it personally when somebody goes to us. Okay.

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Speaker 1: I had these a couple of clients who I was like,

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Speaker 1: I love them so much and I thought we were

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Speaker 1: pretty close. They completely ghosted me after multiple multiple sessions,

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Speaker 1: multiple years. Oh my god, completely ghost But I think

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Speaker 1: that we have enough sense to know that's never really

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Speaker 1: about us. If somebody's seen me for two years and

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Speaker 1: they don't hate me, something about them, which makes me sad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: here's another question before we get going. Okay, if you

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Speaker 1: did go to therapy today, would you want to learn

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Speaker 1: about yourself? M hmm, Okay, that's a really good question.

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Speaker 1: I think that so Honestly, this quote that you posted

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Speaker 1: the other day on the Three Courts thing, I'm paraphrasing,

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Speaker 1: but it's something about saying you can still love yourself

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Speaker 1: but want to make yourself better. It's okay to like

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Speaker 1: yourself and be working yourself at the same time. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So one thing that wasn't within my first ten minutes

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Speaker 1: of talking to this therapist I went to. She said

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Speaker 1: something about saying, you clearly have really good coping mechanisms,

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Speaker 1: and that's like stuck with me, but almost in a

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Speaker 1: negative way, where I've been like, oh, is there stuff

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Speaker 1: that I'm not dealing with because I'm so quick to

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Speaker 1: just be like, yep, it's fine for cool, And I

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Speaker 1: think that that would be something I'd want not to like,

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Speaker 1: not for an immediate fix, but just for for a

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Speaker 1: longevity of being like, oh it's okay to like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: feel more and not be So this is gonna be

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Speaker 1: interesting because that's kind of something that we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about in a second. Okay, So today's UM episode

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Speaker 1: is on attachment theory. So if everybody listening and for you,

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Speaker 1: attachment theory is basically what I base all of what

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Speaker 1: I do with clients, Like all the therapy I do

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Speaker 1: is from a lens of attachment theory. So when people

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Speaker 1: come in with issues, I like break it down to

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Speaker 1: this thing that we're going to talk about, and then

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Speaker 1: I move people through their stuff helping them understand this,

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Speaker 1: and it helps them understand themselves and then it gives

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Speaker 1: them a way to change what they're doing. So for

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Speaker 1: um people who don't know what that is at all,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna explain it down to the bottom. But one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons I think this is so important is

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Speaker 1: because I think that our culture, and this is one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons that I wanted to do on here,

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Speaker 1: UM it compliments people. The highest two are the most independent.

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Speaker 1: Would you agree? Yes? Okay, UM, But I think that

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Speaker 1: that gets as stuck and I think the like, the

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Speaker 1: best versions of ourselves come out when we have interdependent

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Speaker 1: which is like depending on others as well. M Why

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Speaker 1: are you filing just because yeah, it's just not really

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Speaker 1: like me. How would you describe yourself like obviously independent,

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Speaker 1: but almost like to a debilit hitting level. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: I don't think that you're I would say debility. Actually,

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Speaker 1: we'll get into it. There's CBS CBS News report and

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Speaker 1: it said, um, one and four Americans say that they

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Speaker 1: don't have one single person they can confide in, which

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Speaker 1: I don't think you know, that's one and four Americans.

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Speaker 1: I think that we're probably the exception in that. And

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Speaker 1: um there's a I guess he was a psychologist, and

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Speaker 1: there was Thomas Lewis. Um. He was quoted in where

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Speaker 1: I saw that saying that a good deal of modern

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Speaker 1: American culture is an extended experiment in the effect of

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Speaker 1: depriving people of what they crave the most. Which what

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Speaker 1: do you think people crave the most? Intention, Yeah, relationship connection,

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Speaker 1: all that. So I'm gonna read that again for those

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Speaker 1: of you who are listening, that a good deal of

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Speaker 1: modern American culture is an extended experiment in the effect

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Speaker 1: of depriving people of what they crave the most. Social media.

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Speaker 1: That's like a test on the whole theory. I think

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Speaker 1: a person's attachment style, which comes from attachment theory, is

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Speaker 1: the number one factor in affecting how people create relationships

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Speaker 1: in their lives and how they form them, how they

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Speaker 1: act in them, all of that. So you know, nothing

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Speaker 1: wrong with this is this is so fun um so um.

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Speaker 1: It was developed by this guy named John Bowlby. He

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Speaker 1: was a British psychiatrist and psychoanalysts. I think, I don't

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Speaker 1: really I'm not great with dates, but I want to

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Speaker 1: say he was alive until like n so he's not

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Speaker 1: are gone. But this isn't like ancient stuff, it's newer stuff.

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Speaker 1: After war World War two he was working I want

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Speaker 1: to say an orphanages. Yeah, I think with orphanages um

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Speaker 1: where he saw kids like babies and all like, um

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Speaker 1: being cared for and they're giving given like adequate food,

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Speaker 1: like they had a shelter, they had all this stuff. Um,

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Speaker 1: they had medical care, but they weren't thriving and a

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Speaker 1: lot of them were actually like dying and getting sick

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Speaker 1: and dying. And there's no um theory that explained like

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Speaker 1: if these kids are getting all this stuff, why are

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Speaker 1: they not what's happening? Interesting? Yeah, And so he developed

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Speaker 1: his own theory that basically says humans are born helpless

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Speaker 1: and hardwired to search and attached to caregivers. Usually this

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Speaker 1: is the mom, but this can be like any close

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Speaker 1: person that gives you that is where you get your

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Speaker 1: needs met. So it could be um, a nanny, it

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Speaker 1: could be a dad, it could be a grandmother, um, whatever.

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Speaker 1: That is Basically, if the search for your needs being

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Speaker 1: met through the caregiver is met, there's security and then

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Speaker 1: the caregiver be ap peer. Doesn't have to be somebody

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Speaker 1: older than you were, like it could can't actual care

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Speaker 1: of you. Well, it can't be appeer because this is developing.

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Speaker 1: Its starting when you're like an infant, So if it's appear,

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Speaker 1: then your infant can't give you those needs um. Which

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Speaker 1: is interesting because humans have the longest period of vulnerability

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Speaker 1: than any other species on earth, as in like we

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Speaker 1: need our caregivers longer than any other species. So like

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Speaker 1: if you're a baby, it's like almost so like I

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Speaker 1: would say, until you're eight years old, I only know

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Speaker 1: where the cut off is. Like imagine like there is

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Speaker 1: a disaster coming or like like a baby can't get

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Speaker 1: up and run away from somebody who's attacking it, Like

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Speaker 1: they have to have a caregriver come and do that

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Speaker 1: for them. If you're the need is met, then you

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Speaker 1: create secure attachment. If the need is unmet, you're going

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Speaker 1: to create um insecurity. So that's just that basic stuff

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Speaker 1: that's or failure of the search of that is going

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Speaker 1: to what's interesting? Is it? Like for me, it all

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Speaker 1: makes sense, but essentially imagine like your brain, like the patterns,

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Speaker 1: it's like your brain, like all the connections that your

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Speaker 1: brain is making, and like like wiring together happens in

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Speaker 1: like the relationally the first two years of life is

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Speaker 1: the biggest part of that. So like your brain is

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Speaker 1: sitting there developing. Okay, this it's making meaning of everything

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Speaker 1: that happens. Uh, it's a fund your attachment. It's like

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Speaker 1: a fundamental part of your your development like anything else,

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Speaker 1: like any other part physical or reproductive system, all of that,

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Speaker 1: it's the same. It's just as important. And there are

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Speaker 1: three essential functions of the attachment system. So your caregiver

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Speaker 1: is going to give you these three things. One is

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Speaker 1: proximity maintenance, so that is it means the caregiver somebody

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Speaker 1: that you can keep close for comfort, so you're just

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Speaker 1: getting comfort for that person. Two is a secure bait,

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Speaker 1: secure base, so this person is making it available for

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Speaker 1: you to go and explore. And the third one is

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Speaker 1: a safe haven, so when you're going to exploring that

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Speaker 1: you know you're you're safe having to come back to

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Speaker 1: when you're scared. So those are the three like things

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Speaker 1: that you your caregiver is supposed to have. And then

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Speaker 1: the caregiver has to meet two criteria so or attachment figure.

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Speaker 1: So one is a threat of separation from the caregiver

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Speaker 1: will cause the person anxiety, which for a baby is

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Speaker 1: like crying. That's what it's gonna look like. And then

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Speaker 1: the second one is the loss of this person would

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Speaker 1: cause grief like deep sadness. This guy believed that like basically,

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Speaker 1: the relationship that you're developing with your primary caregiver or

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Speaker 1: if you have two caregivers, UM is setting the stage

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Speaker 1: for the rest of your relationships. So it is teaching you,

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Speaker 1: can I trust people? Can I not trust people? Are

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Speaker 1: my needs going to be met? I have to do

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Speaker 1: things on my own? Um? All of that now that

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Speaker 1: translates into every other relationship is what we have found.

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Speaker 1: And I'm gonna go through what all that looks like,

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Speaker 1: where I'm going to describe the different types of attachments.

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Speaker 1: There's three main ones than one extra one. UM that

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Speaker 1: we won't spend that much time on You're gonna kind

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Speaker 1: of figure out what yours is, and I'll give some

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about mine too, UM. So we'll just

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Speaker 1: just be you. Basically, what's happening when you're creating, when

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Speaker 1: you get your attachment figure and then you make sense

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Speaker 1: of it. What you're kind of doing is answering questions

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Speaker 1: about yourself. So am I lovable? Can people be trusted

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Speaker 1: to people? Any questions like that? Um? And so if

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Speaker 1: you answer those questions with like a yes, the first

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Speaker 1: type of attachment would be secure. That's what you would get, like,

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Speaker 1: you would have a secure attachment. So that's the one

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Speaker 1: we want. And this is Americans. So most people, the

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Speaker 1: majority of people have a secure attachment. UM. The infant

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Speaker 1: will experience a sense of security with your caregiver and

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Speaker 1: like essentially your mom will show up. These people will

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Speaker 1: believe people are good, they believe their partners and relationships

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Speaker 1: will be loving in there for them. They're able to

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Speaker 1: communicate their needs well, they're not overly sensitive um, and

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Speaker 1: they don't feel rejection at as easily as others. They

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Speaker 1: are programmed to expect that people show up and they're

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Speaker 1: comfortable with intimacy, so look at okay. So the second

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Speaker 1: one would be insecure because there's two insecure types. One

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Speaker 1: is insecure avoidance. So that would be when your caregivers

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Speaker 1: like unresponsive, So your mom, you'r or whoever it is

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Speaker 1: they keep saying mom, but who just doesn't show up?

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Speaker 1: And so what you learn is that like people aren't

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Speaker 1: going to be there for me. I can't trust people.

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Speaker 1: I have to do things on my own. So these

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Speaker 1: people learn to shut down and avoid intimacy. I can't

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Speaker 1: count people. It's what they believe. This is Americans. You're

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Speaker 1: giving me some like okay. So some things that these

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Speaker 1: people would think or how they show up is they

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Speaker 1: to take care yourself. It's difficult to trust others. Their

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Speaker 1: partners in relationships will want them to open up more

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Speaker 1: than they're comfortable with. Um. They believe in self reliance.

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Speaker 1: When conflict occurs, they will distance themselves and they will

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Speaker 1: they are the ones. This is one thing that I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh I wish I had that they don't get sidelined

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Speaker 1: by grief from breakups as much, which obviously because they're

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Speaker 1: more separated. So that is insecure and they're more self reliance,

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Speaker 1: so they're like, I need more about myself. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: move forward. It's also like I knew this what happened? Um,

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Speaker 1: And then there's insecure anxious. So this is when the

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Speaker 1: caregiver is inconsistent. So sometimes they show up and sometimes

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Speaker 1: they don't. Sometimes they can count on, sometimes they can't.

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Speaker 1: The worst one, well, I'm this one. I think that

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Speaker 1: as we'll talk more about this. After I explain this,

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Speaker 1: this will make sense. But I mean, yeah, it's not great. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's would handle it really well. Well, I don't know

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Speaker 1: that you know all the details of my ships, and

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Speaker 1: people will make sense of like what I was like

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Speaker 1: in high school. It was to you more because I

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Speaker 1: wasn't so nice in high school. We love journeys, so

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Speaker 1: this was this is people. Instead of shutting down, these

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Speaker 1: people will protest more like they look for a kid

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Speaker 1: for a baby. That's more crying. But they also become

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Speaker 1: very clingy. So this is your stage five cleaner, okay,

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Speaker 1: which I'm not a Stage five I would never So

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Speaker 1: these people are worried about what is going to happen.

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Speaker 1: They're reluctant to get close because they worry the partner

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Speaker 1: won't want to stay with them. However, at the same

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Speaker 1: time they're like I need joined you join your journey

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Speaker 1: everything to make Yeah, they're like I've come here, go away,

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Speaker 1: I love you, I hate you kind of person. They

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Speaker 1: so at the same time they don't want to get

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Speaker 1: really close, but then they also want to merge completely

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Speaker 1: with people. And this is actually scared people away, especially

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Speaker 1: and avoidant Um. They're hypercritical towards their partners. Uh, they

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Speaker 1: feel rejected at the slightest lack of attention. I have

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Speaker 1: so many stories of this, like if like people don't

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Speaker 1: text back fast enough or somebody can't do something, it's

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Speaker 1: like we take that as like personal attacks of like

428
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: you don't want to be with me. Um. There's big

429
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: ups and big, big downs, and so this one, like

430
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: the reason that it's like you don't want to be

431
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: with me is because they're like core beliefs are like

432
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: I'm not good enough and I'm not lovable because mom

433
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: shows up and then she doesn't, and then she does

434
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: and then she doesn't. So you make up like, Okay,

435
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: I guess I'm not worth being consistent with. But because

436
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: they have that little part where people do show up,

437
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: they're like, why no people can show up. So when

438
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 1: I get it, I want all of it. I want

439
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: it now because because I don't want it, yeah exactly,

440
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: I don't know what it's gonna go away. So this

441
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: is really interesting. I'm thirty and Kelly's twenty nine, and

442
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: we're both essentially somewhat single right now. We're not married.

443
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: Passage thirty. Insecure, whether it's avoidant or anxious, people make

444
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: up the majority of the dating pool because do you

445
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: know why? I mean, because are the secure ones are

446
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: partnered up secure because they love relationships and they feel

447
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: secure in them right and as secure people in secure relationships,

448
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: they're going to find a partner and they're going to

449
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: stick with that person longer and probably thick and thin,

450
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, they're not gonna run away, they're not

451
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: so um. Those people usually like partner up and get

452
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: married faster. Whether or not that's we can hold debate that.

453
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: But they say the people say that anxious and avoidant,

454
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 1: the combination of the two, it's like the almost like

455
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: the worst combination of a relationship, that called anxious avoidant trap. Now,

456
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: I think that you can still have a relationship with

457
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: those two if they're willing to work on themselves. But

458
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 1: the reason being is anxious people and people with avoidant

459
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: attachment styles are um attracted to each other because they

460
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: confirm their belief in themselves. So for those with an

461
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: avoidant attachment, an anxious partner will confirm their belief in

462
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: themselves as a strong and self reliant person, as well

463
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: as their view about others as needy independent. And then

464
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: for the anxious partner and avoidant person will confirm the

465
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: belief that you can't trust people's commitments. And also people

466
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: with anxious attachment styles, they're more likely to be the

467
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: ones that like avoid red flags because they're so anxious

468
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: to get in relationships that they somewhat will take a

469
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: less desirable person at times. There's a fourth type. We're

470
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: not really going to talk about it, but it's disorganized.

471
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: That's like a very small percentage, probably like five percent.

472
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: And that is when you have like it happens when

473
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: you have like a mentally unstable parent, where it's like

474
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: there's no there's no rhyme or reason for anything, it's

475
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: just cuku karacha. Yeah. And one thing that I want

476
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: to uh kind of drive home is that with explaining

477
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: all this, yeah, you're the way that you grew up

478
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: and your caregivers one dent had an effect on developing

479
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 1: your personality and how you cope and how you view

480
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: the world. But none of this, understanding is to place

481
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: blame on your parents, because I believe for the most

482
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: part that people do the best they can. And just

483
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: because you have an anxious attachment style, it doesn't mean

484
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: that your parents were bad. Um. It almost as like,

485
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: think about, Uh, You're born with a predisposition to be

486
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,479
Speaker 1: a certain way, and the way your your family and

487
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: the people around you and your caregivers and your attachment

488
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: figure respond to you tells you which ways like kind

489
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: of sets out which ways you can um play the

490
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: cards that you've been given essentially, so, um, none of

491
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: this is about blaming. It doesn't mean that your parents

492
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 1: are bad, or that your parents are better or worse

493
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: than other parents or any of that. Um, it's just

494
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: understanding now. I think when I describe these, does it

495
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: feel like anxious and avoidant are bad and secure is good?

496
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: I mean in the very black and white terms, of course,

497
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: But I actually see things in the anxious and the

498
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: avoidance that I admire. Oh I love that you said that, Okay, good,

499
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: because yeah, everybody. You want to be secure, and there's

500
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: a way to get if you grow up and anxious

501
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: or avoidant, there's a way to have earned its called

502
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: earned secure attachment. Just at that, well, I'll tell you okay,

503
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: but okay, I gave you. Actually, it's only two steps

504
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: and you can pick just one of them if you want.

505
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yea the easiest. They're both of the

506
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: the two insecure attachments. To me, I'm like, and I

507
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: think a lot of people would agree with me, is

508
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: they're smart, Like, they're resilient because I am going to

509
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: not keep doing what I'm doing so avoidant. I'm not

510
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: going to keep crying and crying and crying and crying

511
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: because I know my mom is never gonna show up.

512
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: So I'm not gonna just like sit here and do

513
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: that and continue to be hurt. I'm gonna cut myself

514
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: off and I'm going to learn how to take care

515
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: of myself. So essentially, you're learning coping strategies that are

516
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: helping you. The issue is eventually they stop helping you

517
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: and they start hurting you when you move into adulthood

518
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: because you're taking all of the so as you're developing

519
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: your attachment style. What you're doing, is it developing a

520
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: way to view the world, a way to view people,

521
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: in a way to view relationships, and these are this

522
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: is every relationship. So this is a relationship with yourself,

523
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: other people, and even God. So your attachment style can

524
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: also be how you view how God works. Now, I

525
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: would just love to get some of your feedback of

526
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: what you're thinking think about yourself and your relationships. I'll

527
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: probably ask you some questions. I know a lot about

528
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: Kelly's growing up periods, and so as you're you're really

529
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: thoughtful when it comes to this kind of stuff. So

530
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: I know that you're probably like, you know, classifying this

531
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: as like, oh what is this? What this meant? Is

532
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: this what this meant? Think about what you decided? So

533
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: you decided what you are? Right? Oh yeah, I am

534
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: insecure avoid and so I wasn't going to tell you that.

535
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: I let you come to it all by yourself. You're right, Um,

536
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: So I want you to think about, like how you

537
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: think that that's the way you developed, because it's not

538
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: like you know what I thought the first thing when

539
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: you're reading it. The first thing I thought about is

540
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: that in my house and I've learned this as I've

541
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: lived in um the college meeting. You know, you meet

542
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: a whole new group of people in college and you

543
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: get to know their parents and their family relationships. And

544
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: then I move DELI for four years, met new people,

545
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: learned their family relation ups. And now I live in

546
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: Philadelphia for four years and learn those people. So one

547
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: thing I find that is very unique to my situation

548
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: whenever I talk about it, is that there was never

549
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: yelling in my house at all. Parents and yelled at

550
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: each other. We didn't get yelled at as children. Siblings

551
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: were not allowed to yell with each other, and there

552
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: was no excitability in that sense. But like I mean,

553
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: I mean, like you weren't. I guess I'm saying it

554
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: was never rewarded. Ever, like a tantrum never got you

555
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: what you wanted if you wanted to be a Bradie teenager,

556
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: And like fight with mom, she was not gonna sit

557
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: there and cry with you and like oh go and

558
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: again in a fight, she was going to turn and

559
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: watch er and totally ignore you. And so I think

560
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: that that it's like a learned to me I think

561
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: of it. Obviously I don't know anything about therapy, but

562
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: I think that stuff is like a learned reward to be. Oh,

563
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: if I scream and cry and I act sulkin or

564
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: grieve really hard, or if I do this, I'm gonna

565
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: get something from these people. But I would never get that,

566
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: and I learned that very young, so I would just

567
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: go to my room and totally be fine. I'd be

568
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: so when I ask you a question that what was

569
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: the belief that you created about yelling or crying? Did

570
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,479
Speaker 1: you think it was bad or like I think now

571
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: that I'm older, well, don't think about as a kid.

572
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: So as a kid, I think I was frustrated when

573
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: I was very young, like elementary school age and even

574
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: high school age. I think I was frustrated because I

575
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: knew it got other which is so stupid to compare.

576
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: But like my friends, they got them things in their

577
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: households to be Oh, if they cry hard enough, or

578
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: they're or if they're a brady enough girl, they'll get

579
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: what they want from their parents. And I knew that

580
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: wasn't working for me, and I think that made me

581
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: feel um, not equal to my peers. I guess, being like, oh,

582
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: I want to get the same attention from my parents

583
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: the way that my friends get attention from their parents,

584
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: and I think it might have created some and if

585
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: this isn't fit, let me know. But it almost creates

586
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: like bitterness of like they can do that, but I can.

587
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: And so it's like I'm it's me against the world exactly.

588
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: And I've noticed that translates into a lot of things

589
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: across especially early adulthood, where you are first jobs and

590
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: first money things and me being like, well I didn't

591
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: take anything from them, and my friends took stuff, and

592
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: you know, and feeling like entitled, titled I'm not as

593
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: weak as somebody else because I didn't get treated that

594
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: way or whatever. Yeah. Well, and I just want to

595
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: say because and of course there's no perfect way to parent,

596
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: and none of this means that your parents were bad parents.

597
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: It's just you took their experience the experiences that you had,

598
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: and you made meaning of them. So as a kid,

599
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: as a small kid, you don't have a lot of

600
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: ways to get your needs met, Like you really don't,

601
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: and so one way to get your needs met is

602
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: to not throw tantrums. But like as a baby, that's

603
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: all you can do to be like hey hey I

604
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: need food, Hey hey hey I need my diaper. Change

605
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: is to cry, and so doing that isn't a bad thing.

606
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: But like our society looks at a kid making noise

607
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: as a bad thing, when really it's them being resilient.

608
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: And these are the things I can do. This is

609
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: how I'm getting my needs met. So instead of being

610
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: taught other ways to get my needs met, you're just

611
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: taught that that is bad. And so you take your resilient,

612
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: you take what you have in front of you. Okay,

613
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: this is bad. So I'm just gonna go in my

614
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: room and figure it out on my own. Tell can

615
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about how that created? Because

616
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: you've always been very since I've known you, very independent,

617
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: which I am the opposite, Like yeah, and I like

618
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: needed somebody like walk to the bathroom with me, And

619
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: you're like, what then is wrong with you? Like you

620
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: never know what could happen there? Like I like, I

621
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: always wanted people with me doing something all the time.

622
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: And that has to do with a lot of the

623
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: police that have about myself too, of like, um, I

624
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: need people around me and I need constant affirmation. But

625
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: you never got that. So you didn't need that. You

626
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: gave it to yourself and you found ways to feel

627
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: affirmed and to feel good enough through being independent and

628
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: doing things. So can you talk some about just like

629
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: what you were like, I'm even in middle school to

630
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: high school, so independent in my household like And this

631
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: is something I found also to be interesting as I

632
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: meet more and more people across the country in the

633
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 1: way they were raised and how ultimately even across the country,

634
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: most people are really similarly raised and or their home

635
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: values are very similar. But I think a lot about

636
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: how when I was at home, we all even though

637
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 1: I have three older siblings, it would not be uncommon

638
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: for all of us to be completely separated in the house,

639
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: like to just be in our own rooms doing our

640
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: own things, um to be um we. I mean, we

641
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: even had like a couple of different television rooms and

642
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: stuff like that. So when I think about like the

643
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: middle school age, especially because we moved to Tennessee and

644
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: I didn't have any friends, initially, I was like, I

645
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 1: could occupy my time forever by myself. Never thought twice

646
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: about it. Was never like I'm lonely, I need friends.

647
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: I could watch TV for hours and like, imagine things,

648
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 1: I could go outside and play forever and imagine things

649
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 1: I've never ever had a problem being by myself, swimming

650
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: by myself, and it's yeah, it's just been very easy

651
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: for me to always do that and into adulthood, I

652
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: what did you do when you're a freshman in high school?

653
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: You know what I'm thinking about? Oh? Yeah, which is

654
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: something I would never So tell what you did, and

655
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell my experience of you doing this. Okay,

656
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: we should I aspect this with that. I literally don't

657
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: take authority seriously or you don't because I don't matter

658
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: to you, because I don't. I've never I don't. I

659
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: think every rule is just an obstacle to be broken,

660
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: and I think that everything is for the taking basically,

661
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: um the opposite. I'm like, I have to follow every

662
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: rule and do everything right because if I do something wrong,

663
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: then people aren't going to show for me, and people

664
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: aren't gonna like me, and'll like it's not exactly how

665
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: I live now, but that's how I was go right now.

666
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: But I guess, in my totally selfish like mindset, I think,

667
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: like what do I what did? What does what I'm

668
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: doing have anything to do with anybody else? Like? Why

669
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: would anybody not like me because I'm doing something that

670
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 1: doesn't affect them or like or like even to my parents,

671
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 1: I was like ultimately like, yeah, this is gonna be

672
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: a pain and ask for them, but like I really

673
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: didn't think it would really affects them very much. And

674
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: your development of being good enough, I mean, you knew

675
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 1: that people. You didn't earn validation through people giving you

676
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: what you wanted, Like you earned validation through going out

677
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: and doing things on your own. So you are in

678
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: validation and essentially in like a vacuum, you and you're

679
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,959
Speaker 1: the only thing in the vacuum. I earned validation through

680
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: other people. So like we wouldn't. My mom wouldn't even

681
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: hang our report cards on the friedgerter I would put

682
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: her brogard up and then she'd take it down because

683
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 1: she doesn't on the frigger and I put it back up.

684
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: I'm high honor roles. Like it didn't matter if the

685
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: car or it just was like, so what did you

686
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: do in freshman? It was a freshman year, right had

687
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: to have been. It wasn't eighth grade. It couldn't have been. No, no, no, no.

688
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: I was fourteen, but it was over the summer. I

689
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: was I think a summer going into software. But Anyway,

690
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: I loved driving, always loved it, and I'm the youngest

691
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: of our friend and I always really wanted to drive,

692
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: like would take golf carts out and stuff like that.

693
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: But my parents were not one of the parents I

694
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 1: would let you, even under age, be like, oh, in

695
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: a parking lot, let's drive a little bit, or anything

696
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: kind of fun like that. So I just did it myself.

697
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 1: And they what do you mean by that? They would

698
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: leave on the weekends to golf for like, you know hour,

699
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: like it's like a six or seven hour like around

700
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: you a lot. I think as I got older, I mean,

701
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: I'm certain like when I was young, because there was

702
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: four kids, like I do remember elementary school age, my

703
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: mom being present a lot. But I think as I

704
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: got older and kids started getting out of the house,

705
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: they're probably just relieved to be like, oh my god,

706
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 1: we have our or my mom was probably just my

707
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: dad always had this freedom, but my mom was probably

708
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: relieved to be like, oh, I can leave for the

709
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 1: week for hours of time and not have to worry

710
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: about four children anymore. Um, But Soday would go golfing

711
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: and I would just take a car out for the afternoon.

712
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: She was fourteen, she would tell me these things and

713
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: I would like immediately start sweating, Mike Kelly, you're going

714
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: to go to and you're never going to get out. Yeah,

715
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: and what I had a really good run and okay,

716
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: I got away with it for very much to do

717
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: it a lot. I mean, yeah, I got caught the

718
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: summer after going in software here, but I had done it.

719
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: Did get caught. I got caught by the police, Okay,

720
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 1: but I had done it the whole entire freshman year. Yeah.

721
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: It was insane, yeah, and um, but yeah, I got

722
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: caught by just being so stupid, like in the mall

723
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: parking lot doing like speeding or something like something. Really

724
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: still think, you know, I think that the cop just

725
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: saw you and you look like you're twelve. Okay, maybe

726
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: not could be the because I probably looked like I'm nine.

727
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 1: So he pulls me over. I'm sitting on a pillow

728
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: to like reach the steering wealth and he just immediately

729
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: is like, you don't have a license, but I was

730
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: like no, And then we went to a the juvenile

731
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: court and stayed there for about maybe twenty four hours.

732
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 1: And then it's so funny. I remember you like telling

733
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: me like that you got caught and I'm like freaking out.

734
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: You're like yeah, and then like it was fine, and

735
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: I'm like and then what happened? And you're like, I

736
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: mean then I left, and then what's gonna happen? And

737
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: you're like and it's nothing's gonna happen, Like it is

738
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 1: what it is. It got caught, it can't do it anymore,

739
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, like you're going to die? Yeah, no, nothing.

740
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: I My biggest part that I was the most afraid of,

741
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: which I knew was always present in my mind when

742
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 1: I was doing a being caught was like, okay, don't

743
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: cut off your nose to spite your face? Like is

744
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: that toime of phrase goes? Actually, no idea. I think

745
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: it is, meaning like all I wanted to do was

746
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: strive what you get to do from fifteen until forever,

747
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: and I was fourteen and to be like, Okay, if

748
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: I did get caught, would I not be able to

749
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: drive on eighteen or something like that happened and then

750
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: be more upset? Also is that phrase work with that?

751
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: I do think it's something like don't cut off your

752
00:40:54,520 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: nose to spite your friend, Like if linguists six, I

753
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: just don't use phrases like that, because I never get

754
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: them right. I would imagine if you don't often what

755
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: did you say? That the night is our oyster? Phrases

756
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 1: you put into what the night very clever. But I

757
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: did get there was a risk that I was not

758
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: going to get my permit, and I think i'd wait

759
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 1: six months. But in the emotions around that were somewhat muted,

760
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: and I think that you know, what I felt the

761
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: most guilty about was that my parents did not know

762
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: how to punish me because we never got punished in

763
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 1: our house, and like because none of us really did

764
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: anything terribly bad, but we were we were all we're

765
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: all good kids that cared about school to the normal

766
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: amount of whatever that someone would care and whatever. And

767
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: so I just remember coming to my mom like whenever

768
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: she picked me up, and being like, well, what should

769
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: we do? Like should I be grounded? Should I be this?

770
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 1: Should I do to like make because I wanted to

771
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: like make sure she felt parental in it or something.

772
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: And I was kind of a few weeks maybe like

773
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,399
Speaker 1: I don't remember being very strict, and I remember I did,

774
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 1: like days after this, I supposed to go to day

775
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: Matthews concert that I wasn't allowed to go to. But

776
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: it also sends a message of like, if you there,

777
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 1: you're So being punished isn't always a bad thing, because

778
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: it sends a message of like I care about you

779
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: and I want to fix this thing. And so almost

780
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: with that of her being like I don't know how

781
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: to punish you, not that she actually said that, but

782
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: it's sending the message of like, essentially, I don't know

783
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: what to do with you. I it could be I

784
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 1: can't handle you. It could be but a kid could

785
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: take them. The mom could have the message of like

786
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: I'm overwhelmed, and the kid could take the take that

787
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: as my mom doesn't care about me, depending on just

788
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: how they view the world at that point based on

789
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: their experiences. Thus far, I think and anything and like

790
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 1: instilled more. Oh, I guess I can just police myself

791
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: than me. I'm more independent. It's me and me and me.

792
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: So okay, I would like you to share more about

793
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 1: like the development of or were like romantic relationships. Kelly

794
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 1: is drinking throat. He's so bad. It's bad. It's yeah,

795
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: maybe mixed with the peppermin so because I started with

796
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: pepper and I don't know that I would have done that,

797
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: but it's fine. Um okay, so sorry, you have an

798
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: interesting development of romantic relationships to how they start and

799
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 1: all that. Yeah, so I want you to talk as

800
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: if like I don't know anything. I'm like described I imagine,

801
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: like you came into a therapy session and I'm like,

802
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: describe what your romantic relationships look like and how are

803
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 1: you in them? Can you give us a picture of that?

804
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 1: M starting from when? I don't know, when was your

805
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 1: first boyfriend? I mean, like a real boyfriend, I mean,

806
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 1: like you know, the fake one. When was your first

807
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: imaginary I mean like in the way that you like,

808
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: like in the way you'd be like, oh, yeah, this

809
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: boy was my boyfriend at this age, but didn't not

810
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: my fifth grade boyfriend, which I will not name because

811
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: it were not name. No, like first like actual boyfriend.

812
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: Um okay, I'd actually have to really think about how

813
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 1: I have had so many boyfriends. I remember, I'm like,

814
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: I know exactly what it was I was thirty five

815
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: years old in the future. No, Um, I mean I

816
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 1: don't know. I guess I guess. What I think is

817
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: like I don't think that the word boyfriend or girlfriend

818
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: is as important as it is who was like, how

819
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: were your first romantic interact? Like, I guess what I'm

820
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: thinking is like, I feel like somebody who I really

821
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: learned about romantic relationships names because he was like my

822
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: first person that like we had a thing for like

823
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: over a year and he was my first person I

824
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: cared about without using the same and also just not

825
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: saying my boyfriend's Okay. What I guess I'm saying is

826
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: like I think that the terms boyfriend and girlfriend aren't

827
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: necessarily applicable in how serious or how important something is.

828
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: It's it's also just like what was your first interaction

829
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 1: romantically with somebody? Whatever? That means like you know whatever, um,

830
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: But I would say in high school there was you know,

831
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: there was a guy who I really come in I

832
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: would say obsessed would probably be my word I would use.

833
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: I was like obsessed with him, um, and he was

834
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: like the first interaction I had had with someone who

835
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: I really really liked. And I believe he really liked me.

836
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: I guess at the time, I think he liked you. Yeah,

837
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: I mean clearly private signs showed that he liked me.

838
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,439
Speaker 1: But I don't know, you know, whatever what he would

839
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 1: tell somebody else you know what I mean. I'm gonna

840
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: pause you because this is important too, and it's just

841
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: because we're so starkly different. And it was when you

842
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 1: were talking to him. Kelly and I went to a

843
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift yeah, and it started at like twelve. She

844
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: was not like the closer closer yeah, so it was.

845
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: But when Tim McGraw had just come out and I

846
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: was like, will you come to this concert with me?

847
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 1: And he who is that? Like? I remember we got

848
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 1: her CD and brought it back to everybody at Holly's

849
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: house signed that she signed it. Ye, we have a

850
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: photo with her. So we left the show probably around

851
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 1: like one, I would say, and I was we were

852
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 1: both sixteen because we were juniors. I was like a

853
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: fresh because I had I didn't drive on the interstate

854
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: until I went to college because I was so afraid

855
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: because I'm freaking anxious about everything. But we got lost.

856
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,879
Speaker 1: This is before like GPS. We didn't have that quest

857
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: like or anything. So we got lost, and I'm sitting

858
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 1: there and being like I want to call my mom.

859
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: I want to call my mom. Can you please call

860
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 1: my mom? She'll tell us how to get home. And

861
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 1: Kelly is adamant, like no, we are not calling anybody.

862
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: We're going to figure this out on our own. We

863
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: ended up in Murfrey's Broo. And this is sad because

864
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: we were going from downtown Nashville back to Franklin. It

865
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: was dight, yeah, drive insane and we It took us

866
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: three hours. And I remember in my head sitting there,

867
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: my thoughts like I didn't get like, not myself telling

868
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: this because I remember how I felt. I feel that anxious. Yes,

869
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: I thought my thoughts were like I'm never going to

870
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 1: get home, like that's where I go, like, I'm never

871
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,240
Speaker 1: gonna get home, like because things. I mean, I couldn't

872
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: count on things. So for you, you were like, I'm

873
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,439
Speaker 1: going to figure this out. I always figure this out.

874
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: I'm like I need people to figure this out for me.

875
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: So we're having such a different I do remember you

876
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: being very mad at me. I was piss yeah, and

877
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: then when finally you let me call my mom. My

878
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: mom was like, why didn't you call me a few

879
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: hours ago? And I'm like, Kelly, um, but that was

880
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 1: around the time I know you were talking to this guy,

881
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,399
Speaker 1: so I wanted to share that, but keep going, Yes,

882
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: and I think I did call him for you can't

883
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: call your mom, but I can come boys. He thinks

884
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: I'm cute? Yeah, Um, but wait, what what do you

885
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 1: want me to say about this? Well, so I just

886
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 1: wanted to think about your relationships and like, how do

887
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: you think being this insecure avoidance has affected you getting

888
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: into relationships, maintaining the relationships, and then how does it

889
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: affect you and in ending them? Because you have a

890
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 1: starkly different experience ending relationships than I do. Well, I

891
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 1: would say that weirdly, this first interaction with a boy

892
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,879
Speaker 1: taught me, for better or for worse, about a lot

893
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: or not about a lot. It taught it shaped me

894
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: in my already avoidant tendencies and really like honed in

895
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:31,919
Speaker 1: on those in a way because I think this person

896
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: is also kind of avoidance in his own right. Um,

897
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 1: like he he was somebody who could very easily like

898
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: one day be super super loving and then the next

899
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: day be very cold, I guess, I would say, and

900
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 1: like kind of distant. And but I guess for me

901
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: it only like forced me into my avoidance. I mean

902
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: I think that I would be like very like, oh

903
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: my god, I wonder if he's gonna call, and but

904
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 1: by like three hours after he didn't call, I would

905
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: be like, screw that guy, I'm gonna blah blah, and

906
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 1: I whatever. And I became very like and I feel

907
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: like there was like a lot of you know, we

908
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: obviously we were kids, we were high schoolers retaining teenagers,

909
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: but it's like a lot of games. I felt like

910
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: we're played, and I think they were kind of fun

911
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 1: at the time because we were teenagers. But it definitely

912
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: was nothing like straightforward where it's like, oh, I like you,

913
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: you like me, let's just go and like be a

914
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: really cute little high school relationship. It was very like,

915
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, game heavy, where it was just like

916
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: one day was this, one day was that, and when

917
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: it was over, and we'll oh, I felt like a

918
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: great sense of relief when it was over. But you're like, okay, good, yeah,

919
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: I can I can stop having to worry about that person. Okay.

920
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 1: When do you think, like, what would you call your

921
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: first real serious relationship? Mm hm, So I would want

922
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 1: to say it was you also have a slew of

923
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:52,479
Speaker 1: like that's what I'm saying. It's not like, yeah, that's

924
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: that's the that's the problem. So Kelly has Yeah, you

925
00:49:55,719 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: have consistently these like pseudo relationships where you're with it

926
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: so you're not attaching like all the way, you're like

927
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: dating this person but not really dating them, hanging out

928
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: with them, whatever you wanna call it, but you're not

929
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 1: investing yourself totally because essentially, in your head, you know

930
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: what's going to end. So if I don't get attached enough,

931
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 1: then I'll be okay when it ends. And I'm gonna

932
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,439
Speaker 1: I was okay before it started, I'm okay in the middle,

933
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 1: I'm okay when it's gonna be done. And because I

934
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: value independent so much, but I have a very big

935
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,439
Speaker 1: fear of losing myself in a partner. Yeah. Fact, I've

936
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: done my life like this, my whole time, my whole

937
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: life by myself. Like, don't come in and sunk this

938
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,280
Speaker 1: up for me. What you're describing is you keep talking

939
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: about all these guys that you're like, I have this

940
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: brief fun thing with this person and this person, this person.

941
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 1: That's what an avoidant person would say. It's very fun

942
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: thing with this person. It was nothing serious, and that's okay.

943
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 1: I would hate that. I'm like, I if I don't

944
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: have a brief fun thing with something, they're all very

945
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 1: fond memories for me. Yeah, because you're attached to the

946
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: idea of maintaining independence. I'm attached the idea of I

947
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 1: need people. Yeah, and I'm afraid people always going to

948
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: lead me. So, uh, like a relationship that's like fluid

949
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: or like non serious is sending me the message that, like,

950
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 1: they don't like me. I'm worried the whole time that

951
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: they don't like me. I'm doing something wrong. I need

952
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 1: confirmation that you're my boyfriend. Now you don't need that

953
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: because you're like, I'm okay by myself. I'm not okay

954
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: by myself with my message. I don't believe that now.

955
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: I've also been through years and then, but you're confirming

956
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,439
Speaker 1: that whole idea. So Kelly has had these like over

957
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:37,359
Speaker 1: and over, these like fun, like whispy relationships where she's

958
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 1: just totally enjoyed herself. She isn't. Kelly also is not

959
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 1: attached to any social media, not attached to her phone

960
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: at all. You like live off the grid essentially, but

961
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: like I mean for nineteen it's living off the grid

962
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: for like yeah, I mean for every decade before this,

963
00:51:53,680 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: it was just like living normally, right you. Uh, so

964
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 1: you don't have a constant need for affirmation because you've

965
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 1: learned to give that to yourself. But I wonder I

966
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: hit it every time. What I hit it every time?

967
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: But how that would hurt you is you you don't

968
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: need people. So that whole idea of like what I

969
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: talked about in the very beginning of like I'm better

970
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: being independent, I'm better by myself. You're cutting yourself off

971
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: if you could be this good by yourself, imagine that

972
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: could be multiplied if you allow people in your life

973
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: and help you get to the things you want to

974
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: be a better version of yourself. Because I know, for me,

975
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: I have learned more about myself through my relationships with

976
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: other people. I can't learn about myself in a box.

977
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,720
Speaker 1: So I'm learning about myself through getting really close to people,

978
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: people getting like very very close to the inside of me,

979
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: calling me out on things, saying what they like about me.

980
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: The ending of relationships, Honestly, that is one thing that

981
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: like I I say this all the time, I don't

982
00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: know if I can bear another one, but I will

983
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: say in hindsight, like I'm so grateful for every relationship

984
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: that didn't work out, Because I haven't I wouldn't be

985
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: where I am today, I wouldn't know what I know

986
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: about myself. The only way I learned that was allowing

987
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:16,280
Speaker 1: myself to attach to people, And so you essentially had

988
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: been cutting yourself off. I wouldn't say that's where you

989
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: are today. Probably have a bit of it right, But

990
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: and there are parts of being avoidant that like you're

991
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,280
Speaker 1: gonna want to hold onto because they are good parts

992
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: of you that keep you still keep you safe, but

993
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: you're also cutting cutting off like the next level of

994
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: what you can be. But I would say that I

995
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: even like with with talking about my slew of like

996
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: kind of always having something going on one way or

997
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: the other, I do feel like I'm never um how

998
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 1: do I want to say this? I think I'm very

999
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: open to things in the sense of meaning like I

1000
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: will give a lot of different types of people a

1001
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 1: chance or whatever and be like, oh, all hang out

1002
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: with so and so for a little bit, or I'll

1003
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 1: talk to so and so because I'm not I'm not afraid,

1004
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: Like I don't feel like I'm afraid to care, I'm

1005
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: not afraid to get hurt, I'm not afraid to connect

1006
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: to somebody. And then I feel like I've had relationships

1007
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: where I have been like, oh, let me try something

1008
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: more traditional and standard, which in college, I dated a

1009
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: guy for close to two years UM who was older

1010
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: than me and he was not in college, and I

1011
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: felt like I really tried to give that the good

1012
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: like regular relationship try and be like, Okay, I'm gonna

1013
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 1: like you also go into more risky relationships. Yeah, for sure,

1014
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: for sure, yes I do um period no more um,

1015
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: but yeah, because I think that I wanted to be like, oh,

1016
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: all these other people are having these more like traditional

1017
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 1: style relationships, let me give that a go. And so

1018
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 1: we did the whole thing where it's like you're sending

1019
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 1: the holidays together and you are hanging out very consistently.

1020
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: I would see a lot of friends like give up

1021
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: friend time to be like I'm gonna go hang out

1022
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:56,919
Speaker 1: with my signific other and and I'd be like, oh,

1023
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 1: that must be smart and there must be what you do.

1024
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 1: But I ultimately tried to break up with that person

1025
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: for six months before it really stuck. And that was

1026
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: because it just was like every time I tried, it

1027
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 1: was not going anywhere. But he was somebody who drained

1028
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 1: life from me. And so I do agree that I'm like, oh,

1029
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 1: if you get in the right relationship, you can probably

1030
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: grow and be way better. But I think that somebody

1031
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: like me can also become very like oppressed very easily

1032
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: and feel like you're carrying all the weight of Yeah,

1033
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: and for like people listening, this doesn't just we're talking

1034
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 1: about romantic relationships, but it applies to every relationship. So

1035
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: your attachment style is going to affect you at work,

1036
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 1: it's going to affect you with friends. I think about

1037
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 1: it with a friend, like, I don't have a single

1038
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: friend that I don't like. It's like, I don't have

1039
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: any of those people I feel like I need to

1040
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: talk to, but I don't want to anybody. I'm like, oh,

1041
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: I've been I was just friends with her when I

1042
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: was eight, so I feel like I need to still

1043
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: talk to her like or whatever. You know. I mean, like,

1044
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:54,359
Speaker 1: I don't have a single friend that I would call

1045
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 1: like a drain or a single friend that I'm like, oh,

1046
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 1: I get depleted after I hang out with them. I

1047
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: don't have any of those. You know that I'm the opposite.

1048
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: And I've talked about this a lot lately, but I

1049
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: feel like I have I've always had this belief that

1050
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: I have to be friends with everybody and the red.

1051
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 1: There's a couple of reasons for that. I've figured out.

1052
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 1: One is it's painful. I don't like I I despise pain.

1053
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: I run away from it as much as I can.

1054
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 1: That's why I'm always doing something. I'm always planning something,

1055
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 1: because I have to look to the future, a step,

1056
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 1: that something to look forward to. It's painful for me

1057
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: to come to the conclusion that people are bad, that

1058
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 1: somebody could be bad, and so I have to hold

1059
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: onto this belief that, like everybody has a good side.

1060
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: And I've had a lot of friends, and I think

1061
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: that my close friends get frustrated and they'll say things

1062
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: like why are you hanging out with her again? Or

1063
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: why are you hanging And I have a lot of

1064
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:47,879
Speaker 1: friends and I'm like almost like I'm going to prove

1065
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: that they're good, and so I have a lot of

1066
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 1: people that I hang out with like that. Um. I

1067
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: think that's very endearing. It can be because it one

1068
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,319
Speaker 1: it I have. As anxious as I am and as

1069
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 1: much as I am afraid people are going to hurt me,

1070
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: I think I do give most people the benefit of

1071
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,720
Speaker 1: the doubt, and I give a lot of second chances,

1072
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: but it's not helpful. It could be endearing in that way,

1073
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: but I need to I had to get a hold

1074
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: on it because I was continually getting hurt by people

1075
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 1: and that they were doing the same thing to me

1076
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: over and over. It was like that pH me once whatever,

1077
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: phone me to over and over the same thing. I

1078
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: was getting the same feedback back from them. And this

1079
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: is just one person, this is multiple people. And like

1080
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 1: even my mom one day was like, why do you

1081
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: give people second chances that don't deserve them? Because, yeah,

1082
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: it's endearing because I think I was uber judgmental in

1083
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: high school and I'm the opposite. So I think that's

1084
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 1: the other part of it. Like I was trying to

1085
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: like making it over correct. I'm not this bad person.

1086
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a good person. I'm a good person by

1087
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: believing everybody. But then that hurts me because I let people.

1088
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 1: I was letting people walk all over me, share take

1089
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: advantage of me. So but that's interesting that we have

1090
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: these opposite attachment styles and we have the opposite that

1091
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: we were relating to friendships as well, and the same

1092
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: thing in a friendship, like obviously this is not I

1093
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: don't mean this as a play. If I have a

1094
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: friend who's going through something difficult and she really needs

1095
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 1: attention or advice or a lot of just comfort, I'm

1096
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: more than happy love giving it. But I would never

1097
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 1: walk into a friendship with someone or could commit to

1098
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: a friendship with someone if I felt like they needed Well,

1099
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 1: you can cut friendships. Not that you're like harsh, but

1100
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 1: walking away from a friendship is going to be easier

1101
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: for you than somebody like me. Do you mind if

1102
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 1: I asked him? Okay, so your most recent relationship, we

1103
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 1: can go into this just a little bit. Yeah, sure,

1104
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: Um with seven years, can you tell me a little

1105
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: bit about what that relationship was like? So just I'm

1106
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: being weird about this. It just kind of recently ended

1107
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 1: and we still love this person. Nothing bad happened, Nothing

1108
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: bad happened. So it's just I'm asking you to be

1109
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: very open, like do you want me talk about dynamic

1110
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: of the measion or like starting you it was and

1111
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: all that. Okay, Yes, again, this person is amazing, we

1112
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: love him. There's nothing bad happened. We started dating very

1113
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: very young, and he was younger than I and but

1114
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 1: still I was just fresh out of college, and um,

1115
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 1: we were long distance for a very long time and

1116
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: then we were not anymore. But he was a student

1117
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: most of our relationship, and so I I, certainly, because

1118
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: it's in my nature to do this anyways, took on

1119
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: the alpha role in the relationship and was like the

1120
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: decision maker and the party starter and the whatever other

1121
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 1: phrases you could say for that kind of thing. And

1122
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: he is so so chill. He would do anything I

1123
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 1: ever wanted to do most of the time. But he

1124
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 1: certainly was not like a boring person or anything. He

1125
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 1: just was like, yeah, Okay, whatever you want, that's fine.

1126
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: And after you years of that, while there was a

1127
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: ton of love and we were very very good friends

1128
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: and um, we were very happy, and we never fought

1129
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 1: or bickered or had like what I would even deem

1130
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: as real problems by any means, it just got a

1131
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 1: little um stale maybe or old, being like, oh, it's

1132
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: this is the dynamic, and it's very very difficult to

1133
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 1: change the dynamic without a ton of work being put in.

1134
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 1: And I think at that time it just or at

1135
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: this time, it just didn't feel necessary to put in

1136
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: a ton of work because we're still young, and it

1137
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: was like, oh, maybe this was just what it was,

1138
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 1: and it was amazing for this time. And now we

1139
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: can both have grown and learned all these amazing things

1140
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: from each other, and we can go be with other

1141
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 1: people and try out a different life that feels different

1142
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: and you get different things from And there are probably

1143
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: people that are listening to this being like what the

1144
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 1: hell how does somebody walk out of a relationship? And

1145
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 1: and we feel so okay, And it's because it's the

1146
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,040
Speaker 1: way you view the world and how the relationship that

1147
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 1: will happen again and all that. I would leave a

1148
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: relationship of a year and feel like my world is

1149
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 1: falling apart in every second crying. So it's not bad,

1150
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: it's not bad. It's just a different way to view you.

1151
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: You made like a face when they said about the

1152
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: We can walk away from this and have learned a lot.

1153
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: I will say the dynamic of the relationship shows that, like, like,

1154
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 1: I want somebody. This is what I was gonna say.

1155
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 1: I want people, And when I'm in a relationship there

1156
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: there's a part of it that excites me of having

1157
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 1: somebody that can essentially take care of parts of me

1158
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: or help take care of parts of me. So your

1159
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: whole life, you've been very, very independent. However, this is

1160
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 1: this is where this earned secure part comes in. Because

1161
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: you were like, I'm gonna be the alpha, I'm gonna

1162
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 1: be this whatever, blah blah blah. You're moving into secure

1163
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 1: attachment by saying like, I don't like this anymore. Like

1164
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 1: I want a more balanced relationship. I want a relationship

1165
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 1: where I don't have to do all the work. I

1166
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 1: want to relate sationship that feels like I'm not gonna

1167
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 1: like if it ends, I'm just I'm not gonna be okay.

1168
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 1: Like I want a relationship that if it ends, I

1169
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: feel like there's going to be a part of something

1170
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: to be missing. The way you earn a secure attachment,

1171
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: there's two ways you do that. One is through strong,

1172
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 1: meaningful relationships with other people, which is why therapy is

1173
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 1: so helpful with with helping with attachment styles and and

1174
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 1: doing this. If you're listening to this and you're like,

1175
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 1: I have this crazy anxious attachment and it's crazy avoidant,

1176
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 1: and a relationship with a therapist can propel that because

1177
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 1: my job and I usually explain this in a first

1178
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 1: session where somebody is I definitely did it when I

1179
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 1: worked at the ranch and a treatment center because people

1180
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: really try to like a man, had people slam doors

1181
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 1: in my face a lot of funck 's, and I

1182
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 1: showed up every single day to my job. So I'm

1183
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 1: teaching them you can do whatever you want to me.

1184
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: I'm going to be stable. I'm always going to show up.

1185
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 1: So I'm that secure base, I'm the safe haven. I'm

1186
01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: all of that. And so how you you name you're

1187
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: attachment seller, you fix or you you revert to a

1188
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 1: secure attachment style as you find a meaningful relationship that's secure,

1189
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 1: and so in therapy a lot of times, which is

1190
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: why I think my job is so cool, as I

1191
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 1: get to be the first person that consistently shows up

1192
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: for them, and so they're learning, oh, this isn't a

1193
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 1: mean thing, this is an other people thing because this

1194
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 1: person I can do anything to her short of somebody

1195
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 1: like threatening to hurt me. But they're going to show

1196
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 1: up even when I'm crazy, or even when I say

1197
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 1: things that I don't mean, or even when I get

1198
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 1: mad or even and so I'm always going to show

1199
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 1: up for them. So that's one way you have a

1200
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 1: lot of consistent, meaningful relationships in here. So you have

1201
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: been like you're getting throughout your life, like, oh, people

1202
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 1: are going to care if I throw a temper tantrum.

1203
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 1: People are going to care if I'm crying or I'm sad.

1204
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 1: People are are going to care if I get it

1205
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: something really exciting happens in my life. People are gonna

1206
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 1: They're gonna be people that want to put my report

1207
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 1: card on the fridge and keep it there. And the

1208
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 1: other way is, which I think that you're totally have

1209
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: this as well, is just having the ability to have

1210
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: deep introspection and you can have create meaningful insight into

1211
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 1: your experiences. So essentially what you're doing is you're saying,

1212
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: my early experiences aren't aren't who I am, and maybe

1213
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 1: I can do better in the future, or maybe I

1214
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: can change that in the future, that like what happened

1215
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 1: when I was too isn't going to be solidified through

1216
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 1: the rest of my life. My my beliefs that myself

1217
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 1: are they can change, and so you are. I think

1218
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: what's cool about you is you do go deeper into

1219
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,560
Speaker 1: a lot of things. So it's not surface level, it's

1220
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to take that one step underneath of that.

1221
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 1: So you have both of those things. So as you're

1222
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 1: talking about this relationship. Any what I'm hearing is like,

1223
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 1: I'm becoming more more securely attached to people, and that

1224
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: means I don't have to be in a relationship where

1225
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 1: I feel like I I one am in charge, because

1226
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 1: that's you like to feel in charge into that, Like

1227
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,919
Speaker 1: I want to be invested in this relationship for sure,

1228
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 1: and I wanted It's like the things that I've also,

1229
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 1: I think getting older, you just realized the things that

1230
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 1: you really need. Whereas because I am very independent, I

1231
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 1: feel very secure on my own and the I think

1232
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 1: that traditionally, when people think of heterosexual relationships, you think

1233
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: of man provides security and stability of money and whatever,

1234
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: and for me, it's like I don't feel the need

1235
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 1: to get that from a man because I have that

1236
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 1: for myself. And so then it's like, okay, well, then

1237
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: what are the things I would need from someone else

1238
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 1: to have a nice, secure, healthy relationship? To have a

1239
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: couple questions for you, and in wrapping this up in one,

1240
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 1: what do you feel like? What's something that you learned

1241
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 1: about yourself just through this conversation. I think that interestingly enough,

1242
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 1: I use the word avoidance to describe myself often, but

1243
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 1: I wouldn't you didn't even know about this. No, I

1244
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 1: didn't know about this, I said, I say, I practice

1245
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 1: avoidance lot. That's like a phrase you saw myself. That

1246
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 1: is so interesting look at you before you especially avoiding

1247
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 1: difficult conversations like by ghosted a therapist instead of just

1248
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 1: simply being like, no, I'm not gonna come back. I

1249
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: didn't like of what I didn't like. Um, But I

1250
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever related that to having anything to

1251
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 1: do with any sort of attachment or how you know,

1252
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:25,720
Speaker 1: nurture or how I was raised or anything like that.

1253
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 1: I think I just thought, oh, that's just who I am,

1254
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 1: Like I just I don't want to do this difficult thing.

1255
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,560
Speaker 1: But I think that actually it's nice to hear because

1256
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 1: I haven't been thinking about being like, oh man, if

1257
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 1: i'm if I'm always gonna be this like tough and

1258
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:40,200
Speaker 1: this independent, how am I ever going to have a

1259
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:46,439
Speaker 1: meaningful partnership with someone my either question if you think

1260
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: back to like the little care that you're talking about,

1261
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 1: like an elementary school, who created it all? Like that's

1262
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: where you've created all this meaning in the beginning, and

1263
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 1: who being you learn to be quiet and and take

1264
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 1: care of yourself. If you could go back and tell

1265
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 1: her something, what would you tell her? My first immediate

1266
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:12,720
Speaker 1: reaction is I would say, like, be easy on others. Oh,

1267
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 1: because I feel like that. I feel like I can

1268
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 1: be still not as harsh as I certainly was hopefully

1269
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: when I was eighteen and early twenties, but I think

1270
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,480
Speaker 1: I can be very judgmental of people and think that

1271
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:29,920
Speaker 1: people are weak very easily, or see certain things as

1272
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 1: a weakness, like I used to with social media. Now

1273
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 1: I'm just social media. Now I've just decided, like, um,

1274
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 1: I don't really know if it's for me, but I

1275
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 1: used to see like the need for affirmation to be

1276
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 1: a weakness. But that's not. It's just is this different.

1277
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 1: It's just these there's just a new avenue for people

1278
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 1: to get things they need. Yes, even if I don't,

1279
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: I think that's one I wish I could like imprint that.

1280
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 1: Like everybody's minds, like our behaviors, they're all most of

1281
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 1: them are learned ways to get your knee that now

1282
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 1: sometimes they end up hurting us as we get older.

1283
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: They stopped working, and that's where we need to like

1284
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 1: step in. But when we look at people and we

1285
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 1: make all these judgments of them. It's like, wait a second,

1286
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 1: nobody does things to purposely hurt themselves just to feel

1287
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 1: pain because they like themselves. Like, nobody does any of that. Yeah,

1288
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:19,719
Speaker 1: what I do think it is interesting is there's nothing

1289
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 1: you would tell yourself about you. Oh well, yeah, if

1290
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 1: I thought hard for a second, because that's something that

1291
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:31,639
Speaker 1: that is about me because I think that it. But

1292
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 1: that bleeds in because I am a generally optimistic person.

1293
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:37,759
Speaker 1: I have like a general easy going vibe I think

1294
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:42,480
Speaker 1: most of the time, and that is my like pessimistic

1295
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 1: part of myself is thinking that others need all this

1296
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:48,560
Speaker 1: stuff and I'm like, why do you need that? And

1297
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 1: you know, like it's just interesting that like that, it's

1298
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 1: like that idea is like judging others is hurting yourself

1299
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: or whatever. It's poison. Like it's like poison to me

1300
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 1: to feel that way about others. Does that makes sense? Yeah?

1301
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 1: I just was thinking in regards of like you're so

1302
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 1: I'm okay, Like I'm okay, I'm gonna be okay, and

1303
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 1: so you're what you would tell yourself is something to

1304
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:14,680
Speaker 1: be more kinder to others, when in the sense, if

1305
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 1: you really think about it, a person who's creating that

1306
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 1: style of attachment. They're not totally okay, Yeah, I would

1307
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 1: want to go back, and if I could say something

1308
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:27,600
Speaker 1: to you, is that, like people do care about you,

1309
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:30,200
Speaker 1: and people I want to be there for you and

1310
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 1: help you and we want to be a part of

1311
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 1: your life. Let's say. See, but I think that's interesting

1312
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:38,599
Speaker 1: that and that's okay, your answer gets to be your answer.

1313
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 1: But that's just like food for thought of like your

1314
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 1: first instinct is to go go say something about other

1315
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:47,920
Speaker 1: people because you're okay, yeah, but it was more about

1316
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 1: other people when I see this as like you weren't okay,

1317
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 1: like you may do like you you've got out of

1318
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 1: that fine, like you're very successful and whatever, but like

1319
01:09:56,439 --> 01:10:00,599
Speaker 1: there's some things that you probably could have had when

1320
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 1: you're younger. Yes, but it's not weak. So and I

1321
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:05,760
Speaker 1: think ultimately I think that for a long time I

1322
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:09,360
Speaker 1: was I thought like, oh, well, these experiences will better

1323
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 1: me down the road. But at the end of the day,

1324
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 1: we're all we all have the same things, but we

1325
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 1: don't all have the same dynamics in our families or

1326
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:20,640
Speaker 1: how we were raised or whatever. So it didn't it's

1327
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:21,760
Speaker 1: not like it really what do you mean we have

1328
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 1: the same thing's got me anywhere differently? Um, it's like

1329
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 1: maybe we all, like my close friends, we all have success,

1330
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:32,920
Speaker 1: and we all have security, and some of us have

1331
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 1: long term romantic relationships others don't. And does that make sense? Yeah,

1332
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 1: I just would disagree. And the fact that, like you

1333
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 1: can say, like we all the same things, but I

1334
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 1: know that, like I can't really ever say that about

1335
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 1: anything anybody because somebody who looks really successful doesn't have

1336
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 1: some of the things that I have in my life

1337
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:53,559
Speaker 1: might not look as successful as them. Like, you never

1338
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,799
Speaker 1: really know until you know. It's like we compare our insides,

1339
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 1: debody's outside, That's what I say. And so when we

1340
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 1: look all our friends the same, Yeah, but like we

1341
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 1: don't know how the same things. We just display our

1342
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:09,559
Speaker 1: things similarly. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't mean we all have

1343
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:12,760
Speaker 1: the same things to display. Okay, And you ask that's

1344
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:19,080
Speaker 1: a questions you have thoroughly enjoyed this me too. The

1345
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 1: people are like, what dumpster? Was this a girl found?

1346
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: I've never met this girl? Well, very enlightened. Would you

1347
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:30,599
Speaker 1: come back to me if I was your therapist? Yes,

1348
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 1: that's what I need. I'm like looking for a therapists

1349
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: like you in closing in all this, if you connected

1350
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:41,760
Speaker 1: to something around this and you feel like, oh, I

1351
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 1: might be anxious, or I might be a voided or

1352
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 1: I want to learn how to be more secure, or

1353
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:50,600
Speaker 1: might any of that, Like I will just say, go

1354
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:53,800
Speaker 1: talk to somebody. Oh, I have the st of a question.

1355
01:11:54,680 --> 01:12:00,839
Speaker 1: Do you think any of this attachment side has anything

1356
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 1: that correlates to the inniogram or do you think it's unrelated?

1357
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:07,519
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's so related. Now, I don't know.

1358
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 1: I'm I'm like relatively new and I mean I'm well

1359
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:12,800
Speaker 1: versed in the Instagram, but I'm also relatively new to this,

1360
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:16,719
Speaker 1: Like I've been using attachment theory for the past uh

1361
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:19,439
Speaker 1: seven years. Instagram I got into like a year ago.

1362
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 1: So I do know that like inniogram is is talks

1363
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: about your personality and your attachment style is how your

1364
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 1: personality is developed, and iniagram talks about how your earliest

1365
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 1: experiences are how you cope and create your personality traits,

1366
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 1: and so they're very connected. I don't know that like

1367
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:41,160
Speaker 1: the history of it, these that John Bowlby knew with

1368
01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:44,280
Speaker 1: the inniagram lives. But why I love the Instagram so

1369
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 1: much is it's so close to attachment theory. I was

1370
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:49,680
Speaker 1: thinking that a lot, like just talking through even when

1371
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:51,719
Speaker 1: you're describing the three attachments, and I was like, yeah,

1372
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:54,719
Speaker 1: that hatches. And like, if you in any other Intagram

1373
01:12:54,760 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 1: talks about how like you have the two sides of you,

1374
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:01,639
Speaker 1: like the healthy and unhealthy or whatever it's but you're

1375
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 1: never all bad and you're never all good, It's like there,

1376
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:06,640
Speaker 1: it's the same thing with your attachment style. It's like

1377
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 1: the resilient parts of being avoidance like, and so I

1378
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 1: love that too, but yeah, I do. I assumed eventually

1379
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 1: I'll be doing an episode on the Instagram. I just

1380
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:18,519
Speaker 1: I can't do that one on my own because I'm

1381
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:21,439
Speaker 1: not an expert in that. But anyway, okay, so if you,

1382
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: if you guys related to any of this, um, if

1383
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 1: you want to learn more about your attachment style, you

1384
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 1: can reach out to me. I would love to help

1385
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: you find somebody that can help you learn more about that.

1386
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:34,280
Speaker 1: And again, you can follow me at at three Courts

1387
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 1: Therapy on Instagram, you can reach out to me directly

1388
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 1: through my website. It's three Courts Therapy dot com. And yeah,

1389
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:44,839
Speaker 1: that's basically it. I love this. I was really excited

1390
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 1: to be for this to be my first episode because

1391
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:49,800
Speaker 1: I think it's going to help in all of the

1392
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 1: conversations that we have here. Thank you, Kelly, thank you,

1393
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:58,479
Speaker 1: but you can fly down from Billy any time. And

1394
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 1: and I would totally plug Kelly's Instagram, but she doesn't

1395
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:09,639
Speaker 1: really use it, she doesn't really care. World's most boring instagram.

1396
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: You've never saying, um, but yeah, I hope you guys

1397
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:16,599
Speaker 1: have a great week. And um, thanks for listening. And

1398
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:21,240
Speaker 1: if you could, please please please rate this? Is that

1399
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 1: what they call it? No idea? Yeah, five stars, five

1400
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 1: stars all the way around. Subscribe to this. Um, I

1401
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 1: would love comments and feedback. UM, that would be awesome.

1402
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 1: And uh, catch you in two weeks. Try you out.