1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy P. Wilson 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Fry. This week we talked about Elizabeth Paratrovitch. 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 1: Sure did. It's maybe a little silly that Elizabeth Paratrovitch 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: Day caused me to do an episode weeks later. No, 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: but you know, things happen well, especially the way our 7 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: schedule's been lately, Like I was out for a week 8 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: and then I'm a little weird sick and juggled our 9 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: schedule around. Like, No, it does not silly at all. Yeah, 10 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: an episode on Elizabeth Paratrovich gave me the opportunity to 11 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: watch the more Molly of Danali, because there is a 12 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: Molly of Danali episode called Molly and Elizabeth, in which Molly, well, first, 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: there is an incident. I don't want to tell the 14 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: whole plot of the episode, but there's an incident, and 15 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: then afterward, Molly is talking to a relative who is 16 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: talking about like how if she had been there, she 17 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: would have given those guys who were pretty thoughtless and 18 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: offensive stern talking to. And then Molly finds out that 19 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: this relative, who I think is maybe her aunt. Her aunt, 20 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: I think, if I'm remembering correctly, saw Elizabeth Paratrovitch when 21 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: she was a very young girl. And it's very sweet, 22 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: as so many episodes of Molly of Danali are. And 23 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, should I just watch Molly of Danali to 24 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: find episode topics for the podcast? Maybe just for pure enjoyment. 25 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's a very sweet show. I find 26 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: I watch a lot of kids shows just for pure enjoyment. Yeah, 27 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: have I ever told you about you know what, I'm 28 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: going to sidetrack us on kids shows for a moment. Okay, 29 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: for the comedy of it, you know, pingu Right. When 30 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: I was working for many many years as an aga 31 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: musician specialist at a university library, one of my work 32 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: study assistants one year was this absolutely beautiful Danish young 33 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: woman who I loved and she was very funny, but 34 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: like when I we had first met her and I 35 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: was like, ooh, I watched this kids show and she 36 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: literally looked at me and went, Holly is for children? 37 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: And I was like, I know, like tiny, tiny children. 38 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: Like she was basically like, you watch entertainment for two 39 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: year olds? And I'm like, girls, yes, that's what I'm saying, 40 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: I understand, yeah, yeah, there are some children shows that 41 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 1: are really great. Listen, give me that Bluey. When I 42 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: need a good cry, give me it. So when I 43 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: started working on this episode, I was expecting just a 44 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: very straightforward biography of Elizabeth Paratrovitch. And this is about 45 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: the anti discrimination law in Alaska, which predated the Civil 46 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: Rights Acts that had so many any similar provisions regarding 47 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: all of the public accommodations that people should be able 48 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: to access regardless of their race, like really similar twenty 49 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:17,119 Speaker 1: years ish before. I did not fully appreciate how the 50 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: history of Alaska is happening during the same time periods 51 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: as we've talked about in the Contiguous United States, a 52 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: lot of indigenous history we have talked about in the 53 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: Contiguous United States, and there are so many things that 54 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: we've talked about in other episodes about indigenous people from 55 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: like the Lower forty eight that just as are very 56 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: different trajectory from Alaska because of the Alaska Purchase Treaty 57 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: and the fact that there weren't any treaties with any 58 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: of the indigenous are native peoples there, of which, as 59 00:03:55,320 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: we said, there are at least eleven very different cultures 60 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: within the Alaska Native population. I didn't realize that I 61 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: was going to need basically a primer on sort of 62 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: federal Native policy in Alaska. Yeah, and I still felt 63 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,119 Speaker 1: like we had to skip over big parts of it 64 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: just to try to give a sense of what all 65 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: was happening and what was going on, even though we've 66 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: talked about the same time periods and in some cases 67 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: the same laws in other parts of the United States. 68 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: I just like I did not have an understanding of 69 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: how much differently some of that was going on in Alaska. 70 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: Was not prepared for it. It was not prepared to 71 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: have to research, it, was not prepared to have to 72 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: write it. Was not expecting that when I got into it. 73 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: And then some of the things that like, we're obviously 74 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: a law can't fix discrimination, right, it just doesn't like 75 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: repair everything. It did mean though, that if you know, 76 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: someone was barred from an accommodation, there was something that 77 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: could potentially be done about it, right in terms of 78 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: like making sure the law was followed. But it also 79 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: meant that there was a lot of other stuff happening 80 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: in Alaska that was specific to Alaska that the law 81 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: did not have anything to do with it had to 82 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: do with the rights of the Native peoples of Alaska. 83 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: So it's just like just there's this the whole world 84 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: of that that we did not really get into at all. 85 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: That would be again just like a whole like a 86 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: whole series of podcasts. Yeah. I mean it speaks to 87 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 1: like this this aspect of US history where one like, 88 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: the US obviously is a very vast place, right, but 89 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: two like because Alaska exists at a remove from the 90 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: contiguous forty eight oh yeah, and Hawaii. Similarly, I feel 91 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: like for a lot of us growing up, like we 92 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: don't get the context of where they are when we're 93 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:59,799 Speaker 1: talking about other big social and political movements throughout our country. 94 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: It's like they're just not even included in conversation. Yeah. Yeah. 95 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: I also found a lot of details in writing about 96 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: what was happening legally and in relation to like creating 97 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,119 Speaker 1: a government for Alaska and that kind of stuff. Stuff 98 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: for just details would be super different. It took me 99 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: a long time to figure out exactly what I think 100 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: was going on with the reapportionment of the Alaska Territorial legislature. 101 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because I found multiple different ways that was 102 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: phrased that meant different things, multiple years cited. Is when 103 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: it happens in between like eighteen forty two and eighteen 104 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: forty four, multiple ways of describing exactly what steps were. 105 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: I think I arrived hopefully at the correct answer, but 106 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: like it just I was like, why why are so 107 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: many different sources saying this completely differently? And then I 108 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: found there was one source in particular that made it 109 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: sound as though when the United States purchased Alaska firm Russia, 110 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: all of the Native peoples of Alaska, with one exception, 111 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,559 Speaker 1: were instantly citizens. And I was like, that that's not true. 112 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: You're a source I think would know what you're talking about, 113 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: but I don't think that's right, and it doesn't align 114 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: with what any of these other sources are saying right, 115 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: And I was like, what happened? Why? Yeah? Why? Why? 116 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: Why is this going on? I'm glad this is not 117 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: the first source that I read, because then I would 118 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: have been abundantly confused. I had a similar thing happened 119 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: recently when I was researching where and it's less it's 120 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: less of a big thing, but it was like a 121 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: biographer of someone who is recognized as like one of 122 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: the pre eminent biographers of that person included just like 123 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: a really wrong detail in like, oh, yeah, their family makeup, 124 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, yeah, I always sad is 125 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: this just a typo that an editor didn't care? Like what, 126 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: how does this happen? What happened here? Yeah? Yeah. I 127 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: also liked even though it was a lot to try 128 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: to explain in the scope of one episode, I liked 129 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: being able to touch on how the advocacy of the 130 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: Alaska Native Brotherhood shifted over more than a century, yeah, 131 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: which parallels Native and indigenous advocacy in other parts of 132 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: the United States over the last hundred years. Like what 133 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: people have been focused on, what people have thought was 134 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: the right thing to do, what people have thought of 135 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: its most important, Like all of that changes over time, 136 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: and this was one episode where it was possible to 137 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: kind of look reference some of those changes. Yeah, which 138 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: I think is important, right, because it is easy. I know, 139 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: we all want to like compartmentalize things and define them 140 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: a little bit, just as our way of parsing the world. 141 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: But hm, it can be easy to say this organization 142 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: equals this, and it's like, right, at what point on 143 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: the timeline, like they shifted the change? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 144 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: there are so many other examples of similar, similar evolutions 145 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 1: with similar with other groups, uh our own political parties, right, 146 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: similar flippy dippy doo. Yeah, I'm gonna call it flippy 147 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: dob doo forever. Great, all right, it's like anytime someone 148 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: reverses their position, you'll be like flippy dippy do flippy 149 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: do be doo. We talked a bit about the history 150 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: of the IUD this week we tuned in. I said 151 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 1: I would talk about my own experience with ID insertions. 152 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: So I guess we'll start with that. Great. So I 153 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: had an ID for slightly longer than probably I should have. 154 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to get a non hormonal method of contraception 155 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: for two reasons. One was hormonal contraceptive I have ever 156 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: been on caused me some unwonted side effect that made 157 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: it not worth it. And my mom also was diagnosed 158 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: with breast cancer in her sixties and she had one 159 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: of the cancers that as treated with estrogen blockers. I 160 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: was uncomfortable doing hormonal things after that experience, that's fair. 161 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: And my the gyn that I went to, who only 162 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: did gynecology she did not also do obstetrics, was like, 163 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: I don't think that it's actually a risk, But I 164 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: understand your concerns and there's a totally viable alternative for you, 165 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: which was a copper ied So this was in twenty twelve, okay, 166 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: and here's what we did for pain management. At the time. 167 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: Some doctors used my supposed doll as like an off 168 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: label thing to try to soften the service, Oh, make 169 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: it easier, and so she prescribed that that is one 170 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: of the medications that's used in a medical abortion. So 171 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: I was concerned about whether I was going to be 172 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: able to get my prescription filled in Georgia or whether 173 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: I might get hassled at the pharmacy. It was, it 174 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: was fine. I also took whatever over the counter medicine before. 175 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: This doctor preferred to do insertions while someone is menstruating 176 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: because of changes that happened to the cervix during that time, 177 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: and also like an extra added likelihood that the patient 178 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: is not pregnant. That did not work out for me 179 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: for timing reasons. That can be tricky for some people 180 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: to tell. Yeah, so my experience with that was not 181 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: too bad. It was very fast. It was less uncomfortable 182 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: than the time that I had a temporary crown replaced 183 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: with the permanent crown without any pain management, because that 184 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:06,719 Speaker 1: dentist felt like the pain of injecting you with novacane 185 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: or whatever was worse than the pain of just swapping 186 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: out the crown, and then you have to deal with 187 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: your mouth being numb. And I was like, okay, I 188 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: see that reasoning, and I did sign a piece of 189 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,599 Speaker 1: paper and you go for it anyway. That would do 190 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: it anyway. So I would not say it was a 191 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: comfortable experience, but it was not inordinately painful. I drove 192 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,719 Speaker 1: myself to the appointment. I drove myself to work directly afterward. 193 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: I did leave work early because I was starting to 194 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: have some cramping, and that was mostly a I want 195 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: to get home in case this gets worse. I did 196 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: not want to get into a situation where I felt 197 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: like I was in enough pain that driving would have 198 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: been dangerous. Yeah. I also one time had to have 199 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: a transvaginal ultrasound to make sure it was still where 200 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: it was supposed to be, and that was way more 201 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: invasive than the insertion was. Oh yeah, they don't tell 202 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: you that stuff. No. So years pasted, I moved to Massachusetts, 203 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: away from Georgia, where I had been when I had 204 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: it inserted, and I had my regular doctor was of 205 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 1: the opinion that, based on how old I was when 206 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: I had it inserted, I did not need to remove 207 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: it until menopause. I would basically be good. That doctor 208 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: moved away and I got a new doctor, and when 209 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: I got my physical her team was not of the 210 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: same opinion and suggested that I have a consult with 211 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: an obgyn, which I did, and this obgyn was like, you, 212 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: you can do it, but I would actually recommend removing 213 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: it because of the like the risk that as the 214 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: device ages and it becomes less flexible, there is like 215 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 1: a slightly increased risk of during removal, like part of 216 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: it breaking off, and then it becomes a bigger thing. 217 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: So then we went to Morocco and then gosh, just 218 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: after Yeah, So after coming back from Morocco, I went 219 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: and got that done. We had a whole conversation about 220 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: what to do after removing it because I am not 221 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,959 Speaker 1: yet menopausal, and ultimately I elected not to get another 222 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: ID because that felt like a lot, and to use 223 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: other methods. But when she said, here is what your 224 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: options would be if you got another IED, she presented 225 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: me unsolicited on my part with an assortment of pain 226 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: management options and the smallest one that they don't recommend 227 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: my supposed dol Off label for this anymore. Like that's 228 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: it seems like it does not actually help. So like 229 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: option number one was over the counter pain relief at 230 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: home before you come in. Option number two prescription oral 231 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: pain relief before you come in. Right, next step top 232 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: lydocane applied to the cervix. Next step paraservical block, which 233 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: is injected, So like that comes with the discomfort of 234 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: having injections done around your cervix. Next sedative that would 235 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: be like an anti anxiety medication that would require me 236 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: to have somebody else come to drive me to and 237 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: from the appointment. And then last option would be to 238 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: be put under the level of sedation. That would be 239 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: similar for like when you have a colonoscopy and you're 240 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: not conscious, but that's what you're reading time I did 241 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: not wake up during my colonoscopy. I'm for jokes. So 242 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: if if someone wanted that option, then it had to 243 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: be done at a different office where there was a 244 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: nurse anesthetist on staff. And like this doctor, this office 245 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: does not have a nurse anesthetist. So this was like 246 00:15:54,520 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: a buffet of pain management options that were just based 247 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: on my experience, Like, that's just how she works with 248 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: all of her patients. All of her patients, we have 249 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: the discussion of all of these pains. So then after 250 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: that appointment, I told all of my friends about this 251 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: obgyn and all of the pain management that she had 252 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: just like offered me because I had heard for the 253 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: last however decade plus that they just don't do pain 254 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: management for IUD insertion. And it wasn't until I started, well, 255 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: I don't remember which specific Internet conversation, there have been 256 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: many made me go, I wish this was not how 257 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: we were talking about this, because I think it's it's 258 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: hurting people's health instead of helping, like empowering them to 259 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: have But I was like, oh, this is actually what 260 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: the doctor did with me was pretty much in line 261 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: with the current guidelines. And people who were just saying 262 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: just take some ADVILB before you come in, like, that's 263 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: not with the current guidelines. Also, when I went in 264 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: to have it removed, I did have Patrick drive me 265 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: just in case anything went wrong, and I felt like 266 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: I needed to have him there to drive me home. 267 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 1: And I was in and out of the doctor before 268 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: he was done parking the car in the parking deck 269 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: connected to the medical facility. So anyway, that is my 270 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: my IUD insertion story and removal story. Yeah, never an 271 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: option for me. Uh huh. I do have pain fear, 272 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: although I know they're always running my bigger thing. When 273 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: people say medical anxiety, I don't think they understand what's 274 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: going on with Holly Fry okaycause my medical anxiety is 275 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: not oh, this procedure is going to be uncomfortable, it's 276 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: that four weeks later when I'm home, I'm going to 277 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: be like, is it slowly killing me from the inside? 278 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: Like I have that flavor of medical anxiety and it's 279 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: not an option. Yeah, yeah, that is not something that 280 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: an is a concern with. But my medical anxiety does 281 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: not care about your logic or medical scientist acknowledge. It 282 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: does its own thing. It's got its own flavor of 283 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: flamboyant behavior that cannot contain. Yeah, so that was never 284 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: an option. Now, it was the best option for me, 285 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: and I was overall really happy with it for the 286 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: more than a decade. There is also, and I won't 287 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: actually say what it is, there is a callback here 288 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,959 Speaker 1: that you have accidentally created. Do you remember when recently 289 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: I was talking about how growing up, I thought everybody 290 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: read Jim Carroll. There's a gross IUD story in one 291 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: of his books. Oh, that probably also did not help me, 292 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: but I think that's Jim Carroll. Hopefully I'm not misattributing, 293 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, well, and we are both of the 294 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: age to have been around during the big ad campaign. Oh, 295 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: all of the shields removement. Yeah, that thing does not 296 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: look like it would be comfortable to insert, even though 297 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: it was flexible. I know what the device and the 298 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: inserter looked like. I'm like, this is the big it's 299 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: Most of the iud's today are basically like little T shapes. 300 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 1: They go in in a straight line and then the 301 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 1: arms come out while it's in there, And like the 302 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: Dalkon shield was like it looked like a crap was 303 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: like not not something narrow or a round, And I 304 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: have heard that it was like really painful to have 305 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: that inserted. But it also just looks scary and if 306 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: you put it on a six o'clock news background of 307 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: like fiery death behind it, which is how I remember 308 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: the Dalkon shield publicity about go get this removed. If 309 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: you have one, it leaves an impression. Oh yeah, are 310 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: you sure that's part of what informs like my medical 311 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 1: anxiety about these things, right? Yes, Even though I can 312 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: read all of the up to the minute yeah science 313 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: on it and understand that intellectually, my lizard brain goes yeah. No. 314 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: The doctor asked if I wanted to see it after 315 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: it was removed, and I was like, yeah, actually, and 316 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: then she showed it to me and I was like, 317 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: that is smaller than I thought it was. Could make 318 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: a piece of jewelry out of it. It's not very 319 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: big unless you're pregnant. Yeah. Yeah, I did have a 320 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: bit of a chuckle when we started this episode. Yeah. 321 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: I think you and I define body horror much differently, okay, 322 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: because I'm like, none of this even comes close, Like 323 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: this is yeah, listen, I got Lars von Trier in 324 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: my brain. Nothing touches that. Are you kidding me? And 325 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 1: I like a little body horror Lars Sanria can sometimes 326 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: go too far for me. But yeah, it just I 327 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: was like, oh, well, different levels. Yeah, it was a 328 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: specifically the like the intrauterine are the intra uterine pessaries 329 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 1: that had coiled, springy stems and legs that popped out, 330 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: like imagining those just I felt that sympathetic. Yeah, my body, 331 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,959 Speaker 1: I think too. Their different specific things that will trigger 332 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: different people's right. None of that bothers me. I literally 333 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: got really excited once when we were in Disney World. 334 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever been on the little 335 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: train that goes out to conservation station in Animal Kingdom 336 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: where they have a lot of animals and they have 337 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: a medical facility. We happen to get lucky, depending on 338 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 1: your point of view, to be there when they were like, hey, 339 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: if your squeamish, don't go over there, we're removing a 340 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: tumor from a goat in the surgery, and I was 341 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: like running, I wanted to see that. I was very 342 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: excited about it, but yet I will the thought of 343 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: like tearing muscle is very upsetting to me. So sure 344 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 1: it just depends different people have different stuff. That made 345 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: me chuckle a little bit. I was like, I felt 346 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: really chagrined about my ignorance about how what the cervix 347 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 1: is actually structured, Like, oh, I don't think you should 348 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: that's not unusual. Well, I just sort of thought. I 349 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: thought I knew how my own body worked in that way, 350 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: having had an IUD and having you know, as instructed 351 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: make sure that the strings were still there, and also 352 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: at one point having looked at it through a speculum 353 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: with a mirror, I was like, I know exactly what 354 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: that looks like. And then I was like, oh, no, 355 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: it does not look like I thought it looked. Here's 356 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: here's what I hope will quell your embarrassment or chagrin. Okay, 357 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: could you draw me an accurate picture of your spleen 358 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: right now? Now? See, definitely, we don't know what's going 359 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: on in there. It's not speaking of anatomy. I learned 360 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: way too much about the physiology of camels and family 361 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: expression trying to figure out is this Stone story even possible? Plausible? Yeah, 362 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: it is more plausible than I thought before I learned 363 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: more things about camel reproduction. It's still like it. I've 364 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: really trying to find other references to that. I only 365 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: found it in connection to Id's and in one case 366 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: an article about pessories specifically also mentioned it. Also, we 367 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: did not we've mentioned connections between the birth control movement 368 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: and the eugenics movement. In the episode. We did not 369 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: go into a lot of detail about it, in part 370 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: because we've talked about it a number of times before, 371 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: and then in part because, like referencing it felt like 372 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: what needed to happen at that moment, not necessarily diving 373 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: into it. IDEs, though, specifically have some nuances that other 374 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 1: contraceptives don't necessarily, and one is that some of the 375 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: population explosion discussions of the nineteen sixties framed IUDs as 376 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: a really good contraceptive method because of an underlying assumption 377 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: that the people in poorer parts of the world where 378 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: the population was growing too fast. It framed it like, 379 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: and the people there are clearly not smart enough to 380 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: use other forms of contraception. There was like an insulting 381 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: medical racism aspect. Today. At the same time, though, I 382 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: read a couple of things that made it seem like 383 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: the eugenics movement was really promoting IUDs, and like the 384 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: biggest wave of the eugenics movement in the United States 385 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: was falling out at favor. When actual practical IUDs were developed, 386 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: they were more likely to be permanently sterilizing people, not 387 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,959 Speaker 1: doing anything that was temporary or reversible. Yes, I think 388 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: those are all of my notes about you deed discussion. 389 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: I do really want anybody listening to feel empowered to 390 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: at least talk to their doctor and if their doctor 391 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: is like, oh, you'll be fine, to take some advil. No, 392 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: but the current guidance is to offer more options than 393 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: that and to have an informed discussion about it. Yeah. Yeah. 394 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: I also when it came to that whole thing, was like, 395 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: I never want kids. Can we make this a permanent party? 396 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: Like right? So that was anasy one And even then, 397 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: I will say I chickened out twice. Oh I didn't 398 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,719 Speaker 1: know that at the last minute. And then I had 399 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: have another procedure done that I was going to have 400 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: to be put under for, and I was like, let's 401 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: knock them both out at the same time, do it. 402 00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Which here is a funny story I'll tell you, 403 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: and it is about our mutual friend Lily, who we 404 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: both love very much. To have that procedure done, I 405 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: had to have like, you know, your your abdomen is 406 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: filled with air so that there's oh yeah there, they 407 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: can easily get in there with all of the laparoscopic goodness, 408 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: and as a consequence, in a hilarity, you look pregnant afterwards, okay, 409 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 1: because it takes a while for that air to dissipate, 410 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: and bless her, Lily came over that night and like 411 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: brought me yummy things and hung out with me for 412 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: a while. Now like Brian was with me too, but 413 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: she was like, oh, what can I bring? And she 414 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: was like, this is amazing. Can we take pictures and 415 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: seven the people and tell them you've actually been saying? 416 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: Thing was like, it's like, no, I'm not going to 417 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: be responsible for twelve heart attacks today. That's not going 418 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: to happen. Yeah, it was very funny. It's very Yeah, 419 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. Somewhere there are pictures 420 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: of me looking very pregnant. Yeah, probably on a roll 421 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 1: of film. That's how long ago that was? Wow? Twenty 422 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: How old am I? This is it twenty five years ago? 423 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: Spelling time? Yeah? Yeah? Well, anyway, whatever's coming up for 424 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: you on your weekend? Boy? Do? I hope it's great. 425 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: We've had a number of weather updates in our behind 426 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: the scenes episode as I have lived through a particularly cold, 427 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: snowy New England winter. It is seventy degrees today and 428 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: it has made me so happy. We're barely keeping Tracy 429 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: in the chair today. Yeah, whatever is your equivalent of 430 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: seventy degrees after ell long, snowy winter. I hope that 431 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: is how great your weekend is. We will have something 432 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 1: brand new on Monday, and tomorrow we'll be back with 433 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: a Saturday classic. Stuff you Missed in History Class is 434 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 435 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 436 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.