1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,559 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. Guess what Will? 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 2: What's that Mango? 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: All week we've been counting down the twenty five best 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: science ideas of the past twenty five years, and today 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: is exact phonology. 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 2: This is it. 8 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 3: We have four stories left, which makes me feel a 9 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 3: little weird that we didn't do exactly five in every episode, 10 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 3: but I've somehow moved on from that. And to give 11 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 3: you a sense of what's coming today, let's say that 12 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 3: you'll never look at a mosquito, a mushroom, or a 13 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 3: wet book the same way. Again, you thought you were 14 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 3: always going to look at those things the same way. 15 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 3: And if you're unlucky enough to have a roommate or 16 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 3: a partner who snores, guess what. 17 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: We have found a way to fix that. 18 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: Amazing, So I hope you guys are as excited as 19 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: we are. Let's dive in. 20 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 3: Hey their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 21 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 3: Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good 22 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 3: friend Mangesha Ticketer and over there in the booth icing 23 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 3: an enormous cake. Like enormous doesn't even do it justice. 24 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 3: It is a gigantic That is our palain producer Dylan Fagan. 25 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 2: I had no idea Dylan was a pastry. 26 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: Chef for me either, But that is one beautiful cake. 27 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: There's writing on it too. It says, make sure you're 28 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: subscribed to part Time Genius on your favorite podcast app 29 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: and if you like the show, please leave us a 30 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: five star rating and review. Yeah, which is impressive. Yeah. 31 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 3: Look, I think it says johnnyus part Time Johnius for anyways. 32 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 3: Close enough. We appreciate the gesture there. Wrote it all 33 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: in frosting wine. Know, Paul Hollywood could never. 34 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: All right, mango, be honest. 35 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 3: Have you ever build something on a book or an 36 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 3: important document? 37 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 4: Not? 38 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: Really? 39 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: Okay? Well, I was hoping free to say yes at 40 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 2: some point. 41 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: But you've never spilled coffee or like wine on a 42 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 3: book or something like that. 43 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: No, I am one, I'm not really that clumsy. But two, 44 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: I'm actually super paranoid about that type of thing. So 45 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: like when I have a glass, I tend to keep 46 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: my books and my liquid separate. My kids and my 47 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: wife do spill a lot of things, so I have 48 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: a cleaning up a lot of stuff. 49 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, Well, our next great idea will definitely help 50 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 3: you out in those situations as well. As librarians are 51 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 3: conservators who have had to rescue water logged materials, And 52 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 3: is there a lot of that, more. 53 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 2: Than you'd imagine. 54 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 3: Actually, think of burst pipes or flooding, or damage caused 55 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 3: by sprinklers. If there's a fire in the building and 56 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 3: wet paper is really hard to dry out. You can 57 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 3: blot it, you can freeze dried, you can put it 58 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 3: in front of fans. But these techniques are time consuming 59 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 3: and laborious, and so if you're not careful, you can 60 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 3: wind up with mildew or pages that end up rippling. 61 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: And so someone came up with a way to dry 62 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: these books. 63 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 3: Actually, someone came up with the best way to drive books. 64 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 3: His name is Nicki Jaeger, and he is a rare 65 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 3: books librarian, a conservator, and an artist who's had a 66 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 3: long and colorful career in the world of paper arts. 67 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 3: So back in two thousand and two, a friend put 68 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 3: him in touch with a woman named Kate Hayes, who 69 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 3: is an information specialist with the USDA's National Agricultural Library. 70 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 3: She'd been thinking about soggy paper ever since she'd heard 71 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 3: that millions of pentagon documents got soaked on nine to 72 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 3: eleven when all the sprinkler systems turned on. And she 73 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 3: remember the substance that was used in agriculture to help 74 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 3: seeds germinate in dry soil. It's a cornstarch based polymer 75 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 3: called and I'm not making this up, super slurper. And 76 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 3: this stuff holds five hundred times its weight and water, 77 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 3: so it could dry anything out right. She just needed 78 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 3: someone with a conservation expertise to figure out how it 79 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 3: could be applied to paper. So we talked to Nicki 80 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 3: on the phone and he told us that he was 81 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 3: intrigued by the idea. So we asked Kate Hayes to 82 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: mail himself super Slurper, which looked a lot like sawdust, 83 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 3: And when it arrived, she gave him a call and 84 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 3: he tested it out while they were talking. 85 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 4: So I walk over to the sink and put a 86 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 4: book under the faucet soak about fifty sixty seventy pages. 87 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 4: I take a handful of this flake and I throw 88 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 4: it into the middle of the wettest part of the book, 89 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 4: close the book, put it in the screw press, and 90 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 4: talk for another minute. Pull it out and twenty pages 91 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 4: on either side of their bone dry. I mean they're 92 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 4: not like humid, they're dry. Eh, And that's what five 93 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 4: hundred times is waiting water will do. I'm like, this 94 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 4: stuff is amazing. We got to do something. 95 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 3: Kate agreed to help Nicky get a federal research agreement 96 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 3: to turn Super Slurper into a viable paper conservation product, 97 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 3: but right away they were challenges. For one thing, the 98 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 3: super Slurper turned into a goo in the crevices of 99 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 3: wet books, and the sawdust like flakes made dense in 100 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 3: the paper as it dried. So he solved that first 101 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 3: problem by just sandwiching a layer of the polymer between 102 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 3: sheets of lab grade filtration paper, and after destroying a 103 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 3: coffee grinder trying to turn the flakes into dust, he 104 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 3: tracked down a manufacturer that sold a powdered. 105 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: Version of the super Slurper. 106 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 3: But then the question was how do you keep this 107 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 3: fine powder contained in its envelope of filter paper? 108 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 4: And somebody eventually said something about diapers, and I went, oh, yeah. 109 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 3: Nikki checked out some diaper making equipment, but he realized 110 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 3: that diapers are engineered to hold liquid in without ever 111 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 3: letting it out. They use an adhesive that lets the 112 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 3: absorbent filling blow up when it gets wet, and then 113 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 3: it stays puffy. Super Slurper couldn't do that. It had 114 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 3: to dry flat so it wouldn't damage book spines. Eventually, 115 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 3: after a ton of trial and error, he figured out 116 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 3: how to assemble sheets of super Slurper designed for rescuing 117 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 3: wet books. He used the jury rigged silk screen to 118 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 3: distribute the powder on the envelopes of filter paper coated 119 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 3: with an industrial adhesive that allowed the stuff to swell 120 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 3: up just enough to hold water before going flat as 121 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 3: it dried. Plus, he left a precise border at the 122 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 3: edge of the paper so the slurper wouldn't ooze out, 123 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 3: sort of like an overstuffed PBNJ. 124 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: I mean this all sounds so time consuming. 125 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is taking years. 126 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 3: He's bouncing around rented commercial workspaces and USDA research labs, 127 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 3: getting by with small grants. It was slow going, but 128 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 3: he was homing in on the details that would make 129 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 3: his product, which he decided to call Zorbis, work just 130 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 3: right now. The problem now was finding a way to 131 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 3: manufacture this stuff instead of pasting it together by hand. 132 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 3: But the industrial experts he spoke with didn't understand the 133 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 3: science of zorbis or books the way Nikki did. 134 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 4: Every engineer I spoke to for ten years kept trying 135 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 4: to re engineer it to their standards. No one was 136 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 4: able to comprehend all of my very specific needs and 137 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 4: challenges and answering their questions. I was learning myself what 138 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 4: the form had to be and why it had to 139 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 4: be the way it was. So during that period I 140 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 4: also figured out that if I put the sheets of 141 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 4: zorbix about every twenty or thirty pages, then I'm not 142 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 4: swelling the spine of the book. I'm not increasing the 143 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 4: books interior space such that it ruins the spine. 144 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 2: Now, the other problem was money. 145 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 3: So by two thousand and nine he'd built up a 146 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: small customer base of librarians and conservation experts. People in 147 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 3: the book business knew the value of zorbix, but finance 148 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 3: guys couldn't quite get it. 149 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 4: I'd managed to get a couple of people investing in this. 150 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,119 Speaker 4: I was able to manufacture small batches of it by hand, 151 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 4: and whenever any library saw this stuff, they loved it. 152 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 4: They were like, this stuff is great. But I had 153 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 4: a hard time describing how it was useful. Like, I 154 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 4: tried to go in front of Angel investors, but Northern 155 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 4: California is a high tech industry and this is essentially 156 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 4: be low tech, and nobody understood the importance. So I'd 157 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 4: done research on how many books get wet in a year. 158 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 4: There's over two million books a year in libraries that 159 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 4: get wet from non catastrophic floods, water breaks, leaking roof, 160 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 4: spilling coffee, whatever. Went to these investors and they were like, well, 161 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 4: that's two million books, that's not that big a deal. 162 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 3: He ended up having to take a warehouse job to 163 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 3: support himself while he continued looking for ways to mass 164 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 3: produce sorbis, all while keeping up with the orders he 165 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 3: was getting from librarians. By twenty fifteen, he had hit 166 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 3: a wall. 167 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 4: I called all of my investor and I said, I'm done. 168 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 4: It's you know, it's from two thousand and two to 169 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 4: twenty fifteen. I just I can't do this anymore. And 170 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 4: they went, yeah, well, you prove feasibility, you got a mark, 171 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 4: you built the machine, you wrote the patent, you got 172 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 4: a market. It just didn't succeed financially. Bit just succeeded 173 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 4: in every other way. So I said, all right, I'm 174 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 4: going to celebrate my failure, and I went on a 175 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 4: motorcycle trip around the country. 176 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 3: On his way through ann Arbor, he stopped to say 177 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 3: hi to one of his longtime customers, Shannon Zachary, the 178 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 3: head of conservation and book repair at the University of Michigan, 179 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 3: and he told her about his decision. 180 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 4: She goes, what, He goes, see the stack of book series? Yeah, 181 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 4: she should. We had a flood in our rare book vault. 182 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 4: It was a water leak and we had all of 183 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 4: this mostly nineteenth and twentieth century kind of avant garde 184 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 4: types of materials that couldn't freeze dry and they had 185 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 4: to be flat. She goes, that stack is the last 186 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 4: stack of these, you know, seven hundred books or whatever 187 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 4: it was. And we used zorbis and was great. I said, 188 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 4: I can't keep going. I need ten grand just to 189 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 4: buy a paper. She goes, oh, well, you can't go 190 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 4: out of business. 191 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 3: Shannon rallied the conservation community to place ten thousand dollars 192 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 3: worth of orders back home in California. Nicky got to 193 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 3: work fulfilling them by hand. He plugged away in a 194 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 3: Bay Area industrial building with no heat, sharing this space 195 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 3: with a bunch of burning Man fans who were there 196 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 3: building art carts for the plout, and he set up 197 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 3: his fourteen foot modified screen printing system, his racks, his 198 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 3: stock of filter paper, and powdered super slurper. He covered 199 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 3: it all with plastic sheeting because the roof was leaking no, 200 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 3: but he was still no closer to getting Zorbis into 201 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 3: a proper manufacturing system. After a while, he looked around 202 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 3: and was like, why am I still doing this? You 203 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 3: can imagine the frustration. 204 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 205 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 4: Do you know what the difference between being stubborn and 206 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 4: perseverant is? Well, stubborn is what they say about you 207 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 4: when you're doing something and it doesn't look like it's 208 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,119 Speaker 4: going anywhere. When they write about it after you succeeded, 209 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 4: they say you were perseverant, and I just said I'm stubborn. 210 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 4: Time to quit. 211 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: Well, I guess that is part of science, right, I mean, 212 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: sometimes the world just doesn't make space for great ideas. 213 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's pretty much how Nikki felt. So he called 214 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 3: up an old friend from the book world who agreed 215 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 3: to buy the business, But that guy got busy with 216 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 3: other projects, so Zorbix this incredibly complicated, beautifully simple way 217 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 3: to save what books was put on the back burner. 218 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 3: That means it's been a long time since any Zorbis 219 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 3: was produced, but since it's reusable, it is actually still 220 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 3: out there. So we heard from one conservator who's hung 221 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 3: onto her sheets for years because she says it's just 222 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 3: so good at what it does. 223 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing. So where does this all stand now? 224 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 3: Well, there may end up being a happy ending to 225 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 3: this story. So right before we recorded this episode, actually 226 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 3: got an email from Nikki who said that talking to 227 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 3: us reignited his passion for the project. He's decided to 228 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 3: start writing the story of Zorbis for his blog and 229 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 3: put some demos on YouTube so more people can see 230 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 3: how it works. He's thinking maybe it can turn into 231 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 3: sort of an open source effort. And here's some even 232 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 3: more good news. He was kind enough to mail us 233 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 3: some sheets of Zorbix from his personal stash, and we're 234 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 3: giving them away today on Instagram. So people are going 235 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 3: to go start spelling stuff in order to be able 236 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 3: to use least there, right, So go follow us at 237 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 3: Part Time Genius and find out how you can win 238 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 3: some Zorbis. 239 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: That is pretty cool. Hey, listeners, do not go anywhere. 240 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: We've got to pause for a quick break. But there 241 00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: is so much weird science waiting on the other side. 242 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part Time Genius, where we're talking about 243 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: the twenty five greatest science ideas of the last twenty 244 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: five years. If you've ever gone hiking or camping in 245 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: the US, or even if you've just tried to enjoy 246 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: a nightcap on your Porsche, chances are you've had an 247 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: annoying encounter with a mosquito. But that's usually all it is, 248 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: an annoyance. Now, in other parts of the world, mosquitoes 249 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: are a serious health risk. In fact, the CDC calls 250 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 1: them the world's deadliest animal. About a million people die 251 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: for mosquito born illnesses each year. For example, despite all 252 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: the progress we've made with malaria, the WHO reports that 253 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: there were two hundred and sixty three million cases and 254 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: five hundred and ninety seven thousand debts in twenty twenty three. 255 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: Then there are diseases like denge, which are not often 256 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: lethal but can make you really, really ill. We actually, 257 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: when I was recording my other podcast, Colin Drive, my 258 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: aunt and uncle in India caught it and it truly 259 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: sounded miserable. But the worst part is mosquito borne illness 260 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: is on the rise worldwide, and here in the US 261 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: we're actually starting to see more cases of West Nile 262 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: virus Zeka and denke. 263 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 2: So why is this problem getting worse? 264 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: Climate change is a big part of it, right, I mean, 265 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: as temperatures rise and places get more humid, it's a 266 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: literal breeding ground for mosquitoes. Also the lack of adequate 267 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: healthcare infrastructure in many parts of the world as a factor. 268 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: But the other problem is money. 269 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: Like in twenty twenty three, the WHO and It's partner 270 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: set a target of eight point three billion to battle 271 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: malaria around the globe, but total investment only reached about 272 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: four billions, so partners on the ground couldn't buy enough 273 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: essential gear like things that are pretty simple like mosquito nets, 274 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: also medicines and insecticides, which is why the next breakthrough 275 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: is both hilarious and exciting. So in twenty nineteen, a 276 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: multinational team of researchers from Malaysia, Thailand, Japan, and Indonesia 277 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: discovered that exposing mosquitoes to music can disorient them enough 278 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: to tack less and breathe less too. 279 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 3: So you just crank up the tunes and the mosquitoes 280 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 3: kind of freak out and people are less likely to 281 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 3: get bitten. 282 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 2: Or how does it work? 283 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: Yees? I mean the study puts it in much more 284 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: official scientific terms, but yeah, that's pretty much it. 285 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: So is there is there a type of music that's 286 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: more effective than another? 287 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: In fact, will there was a particular song that they used. Okay, 288 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: this study used the twenty ten dub stuff Smash Scary 289 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: Monsters and Nice Sprites by Scrillic Cryllics. 290 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 2: Right, that's a Scrillics hit. 291 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: Here is a little reminder of what it sounds like, 292 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: which I'm sure takes you back your MySpace days, right, 293 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: But for mosquitoes, there's no nostalgia, just confusion. So here's 294 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: how the experiment worked. The researchers restrained a hamster in 295 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: a mesh cage, then unleashed ten hungry mosquitoes, and they 296 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: used a stopwatch to track how long it took the 297 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: bugs to start biting and how many times they bit 298 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: the hamster. So when Scrilliics wasn't playing, some of the 299 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: mosquitos started biting just after twenty one seconds in the cage, 300 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: and individual mosquitos bit the hamster as many as eleven 301 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: times and ten minutes, but when the music was playing, 302 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: they didn't start biting until at least sixty nine seconds 303 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: had passed, and the highest number of bites from a 304 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: single mosquito was seven. They also found that mosquitoes exposed 305 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: to the song were slower to initiate mating. 306 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: Wow, So what do we think is the science behind 307 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 2: all of this? 308 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: Research suggests that noise causes stress in insects, like enough 309 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: to change their normal behavior. The other thing that might 310 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: be causing delayed biting is the vibration from the sound. Now, 311 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: in the Scrillics study, the scientists were careful to set 312 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: up their equipment so the speaker wasn't touching the cage. 313 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: But all sound is vibration, right, And it turns out 314 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: that the mosquitoes have to make a whole series of 315 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: super precise calculations before they suck your blood. First, they 316 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: need to locate you, Then they probe for a suitable 317 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: blood vessel. Then they insert their style it which is 318 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: actually what it's called, and grip your skin while they feed. 319 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: And it seems like consistent vibration, so the kind you 320 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: might experience in the twenty ten dubsteps Smash scary monsters 321 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: and nice brites can really throw these calculations off. There 322 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: was another study in twenty eighteen where some researchers played 323 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: acdc's back in Black to a group of beetles and 324 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: it reduced their feeding as well. 325 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 2: And when you say group of beetles, I assume you're 326 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 2: talking about insects. 327 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think ACDC would stop Ringo and Paul 328 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: from eating their dinners. But at any rate, it's amazing 329 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: to think that blasting music could someday be part of 330 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: an affordable and effective global mosquito control strategy. 331 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 3: All right, Well, at the risk of branding myself as 332 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 3: the fungus guy, and I'm I'm always nervous about this, 333 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 3: I'm championing another fungal breakthrough for our count h and 334 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 3: this one has to do with their eating habits. So 335 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 3: for a long time now, we've known that fungi are 336 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 3: basically the garbage disposals of the natural world. Elie practically 337 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 3: anything from the wood of a violin to asbestos to 338 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 3: even jet fuel, which is super weird. In fact, there 339 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 3: are now at least four different species of marine fungus 340 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 3: that can even break down carbon based polyethylene, the most 341 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 3: pervasive form of plastic waste in the Earth's oceans. 342 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: That's pretty awesome. 343 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 3: But as helpful as all of this is from a 344 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 3: human perspective, there is one dish on the fungal menu 345 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 3: whose consumption stands to benefit us the most, and that's 346 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 3: actually radiation. 347 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: I feel like I've heard about this right. It's some 348 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: kind of black fungus at Chernobyl. 349 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, And years after the nineteen eighty six meltdown, 350 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 3: scientists discovered patches of black fungus growing on the walls 351 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 3: of the Number four reactor. Surprisingly, the fungi seem to 352 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 3: be growing toward the various sources of radiation, and his 353 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 3: later studies showed it actually the most where the radiation 354 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 3: was highest. Now, for a long time, nobody knew how 355 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 3: the fungus had managed to survive much less flourish, but 356 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 3: in two thousand and seven, two researchers at New York's 357 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 3: Albert Einstein College of Medicine shed some light on the subject. 358 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 3: Their study revealed that the fungus had not only adapted 359 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 3: to what would normally be seen as a lethal level 360 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 3: of radiation, It also developed a way to feed on 361 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 3: the radiation as a way to fuel its own growth, 362 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 3: kind of like the fungal equivalent of photosynthesis. The fungus 363 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 3: absorbed the radiation and then processed it harmlessly to produce 364 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 3: usable energy, just like a plant does with sunlight. 365 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: That's pretty amazing. So so what's their trek? 366 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 3: Well, the secret turned out to be the fung guy's 367 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 3: melanin content, the pigment responsible for its dark coloring. These 368 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 3: researchers that I mentioned, Ekaterina Dottakova and Arturo Cascidovol, discovered 369 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 3: that exposure to radiation had changed the shape of the 370 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 3: black fung gui's melanin molecule, making it much more effective 371 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 3: at processing radiation than fungal strains that don't contain melanin. 372 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: It's anathing we've talked about and twice on this yeah, 373 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: this series. So does that adaptation exist in other strains 374 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: of black fungi or is it just the one that's 375 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: found at Chernobyl. 376 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,959 Speaker 2: Now we actually know of a few different strains that 377 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 2: can do this. Now. 378 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 3: They're called radiotrophic fungi, and the hope is that we 379 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 3: can use them to help contain and possibly reduce radiation 380 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 3: levels and other contaminated sites around the world. Now, to 381 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 3: be clear, the fungi's abilities could have useful applications in 382 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,719 Speaker 3: far less extreme places than nuclear disaster sites. For example, 383 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 3: there are a lot of medical and manufacturing devices that 384 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,719 Speaker 3: safely use smaller levels of radiation. These can be treated 385 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 3: with radiotrophic fungus to further protect workers from ambient radiation 386 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 3: or maybe help to power them, since the fungus produces energy. 387 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 3: There's also a chance that we could someday harness the 388 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 3: genes possible for the fungui's resilience to radiation and then 389 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 3: use them to create other materials with the same ability. 390 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 3: In the meantime, though, NASA scientists have already fast tracked 391 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 3: another important use for the black fungus protecting astronauts from 392 00:19:58,119 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 3: cosmic radiation. 393 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: Cool i sometimes forget. In addition to the lack of oxygen, 394 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: spaces radioactive. So you know, whether you're walking out in 395 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: a spacesuit or chilling inside the rocket, you're being hit 396 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:11,479 Speaker 1: with some level of radiation. 397 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's not exactly a hospitable environment for humans 398 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 3: up there. And the same strain found that Chernobyl was 399 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 3: sent to the International Space Station back in twenty twenty, 400 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 3: and the experiment conducted with it showed that the fungus 401 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 3: was able to block some of the incoming radiation. The 402 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 3: finding could have major implications for future missions, including long 403 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 3: term voyages in a deep space where radiation levels could 404 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 3: be much higher. If further studies pan out, astronauts could 405 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 3: soon be wearing suits and living in habitats shielded with 406 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 3: the layer of this protective fungus. 407 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 1: That's really an incredible journey from like the soil to 408 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: Chernobyl to outer space. Like it's a pretty huge evolution. Okay, listeners, 409 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: you've got to pay for the show with some ads, 410 00:20:49,840 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: but we'll be right back after this quick break. Welcome 411 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: back to Part Time Genius. When we're talking the twenty 412 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: five greatest science ideas of the last twenty five years, 413 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: and we're up to number well, this is it our 414 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: last story of the countdown, Dylan, can we get a 415 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: drum roll for Lise? All right, let's do it, Mango. 416 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 3: What is the number one best science idea of the 417 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 3: past twenty five years? 418 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: So this comes from a two thousand and six study 419 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: published in the British Medical Journal concerning the treatment of 420 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: obstructive sleep apnea or OSA, and this is a huge deal. 421 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: According to the National Council on Aging, nearly a billion 422 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: adults worldwide are thought to have at least a mild 423 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: case of OSA. 424 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I know most of us have heard of 425 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 3: sleep apnea, but let's take a minute just remind me 426 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 3: what it does exactly. 427 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: The condition occurs when the upper airway in the throat 428 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,479 Speaker 1: collosse during sleep, and this blocks the sleeper's airflow and 429 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: causes their breathing to repeatedly stop and start. So you know, 430 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: it results in like snoring, gasping, sometimes choking. Not to 431 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: mention sleep deprivation and not getting enough sleep really has 432 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 1: serious health consequences. Lack of sleep is linked to diabetes, 433 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: heart disease, plus mental health problems like brain fog, irritability, anxiety, 434 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 1: and even depression. But luckily, a team of Swiss researchers 435 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: came up with a treatment for sleep apnea that is 436 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: totally safe and proven to work. It involves a medical 437 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: device that produces a very distinctive sound. So I just 438 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: want to play a clip of it for you in 439 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: your headphones and see if you can place it. Wait, 440 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 1: is that a digital do I mean, what else could 441 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: it be? That one of a kind drone sound right 442 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: there is pretty incredible? 443 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 3: All right, So that's cool and all, but how does 444 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 3: listening to it help with sleep apnea? 445 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,959 Speaker 1: Listening to it probably won't help. The sound has been 446 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: found to promote relaxation and reduce stress in some people, 447 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: but the real medical marvel comes from playing the instrument. 448 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 2: Now. 449 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: According to this two thousand and six study, the airway 450 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: collapses associated with sleep apnea can be caused by a 451 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: variety of factors, ranging from obesity, to alcohol consumption to 452 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: simply having a large tongue. But whatever the case, the 453 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: key to treating them is to find a way to 454 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: keep that airway open at all times. Now, the traditional 455 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: way to do that is with a seapap machine. This 456 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: treatment uses a machine to deliver a steady stream of 457 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: air pressure through a mask so that the soft tissues 458 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: and the wearer's throat won't close in and block the airway. 459 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 3: I guess that's kind of like one of those inflatable 460 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 3: tube guys at the car dealerships right picture those. 461 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: I guess so. But the problem is, seapap machines are expensive, 462 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 1: they're bulky, their covers nearly half of all people prescribe 463 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: these machines by their doctors eventually quit using them. Plus, 464 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: the machines make a worrying white and I sound, which 465 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: some people will find soothing but would drive me nuts. 466 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not nearly as soothing as a digital do. 467 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 1: Well again, listening to a dijerdo will not help you. 468 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: But these Swiss researchers found that playing the digitaldo or 469 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: the ditch as those of us in the no Call, 470 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: it is actually a great way to strengthen the muscles 471 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: of the upper airway. And the key to that is 472 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: the circular breathing technique used by wind instrumentalists. This allows 473 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: them to create a continuous, uninterrupted tone by inhaling through 474 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: the nose while maintaining airflow through the instrument. Now, this 475 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: is a tricky technique to master because you kind of 476 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: have to alternate back and forth between stored air in 477 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: your cheeks and air brought into the lungs through the nose. Amazingly, 478 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: it's actually how the rapper Black Thought from the Roots 479 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: can wrap like ten minutes straight without sounding like he's 480 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: taking a big gas for air, and he has like 481 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: a steady flow. But once you've mastered the method through 482 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 1: daily practice, the muscles in your tongue and throat will 483 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: be much stronger and your upper airway will be much 484 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: less likely to collapse. 485 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 3: It's super interesting, but I'm curious that, Like, how did 486 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 3: the researchers figure this out? Like what made them think 487 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 3: that digitido might have an effect on sleep apnea? 488 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: So, according to the study, they were tipped off by 489 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: a digido instructor who happened to suffer from sleep apne himself, 490 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: and he reported that he and a few of his 491 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: students snored less and weren't as tired during the daytime 492 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: after practicing with the instrument for several months, and that 493 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 1: convinced the team. 494 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 2: To take a closer look. 495 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: So they recruited twenty five people, all of whom had 496 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 1: a moderate sleep apnea, gave them several weeks of lessons 497 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: on how to play, and then have them commit to 498 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: practicing daily for about four months. And so, how could 499 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: they tell whether it was working? So they used several 500 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: different measures to gauge the results, but the primary outcome 501 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: was something called the Epworth scale, which measures daytime sleepiness 502 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: from zero to twenty four. Now, the average Epworth score 503 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: at the start of the trial was eleven point eight, 504 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: so pretty much in the middle between zer and twenty four. 505 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: But after practicing digidoo for about twenty five minutes a day, 506 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: six days a week for several months, the test subject's 507 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: average score dropped to seven point four, so almost a 508 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: four and a half point difference. In addition, the partners 509 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: of the participants reported far less sleep disturbance from snoring 510 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: during the same period, suggesting that the collapsibility of the 511 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: upper airway really had been reduced by playing this digitidoo. 512 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 3: And I'm curious how did those improvements stack up against 513 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 3: the SEPAP machine. 514 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: So overall, the effect of the digiidoo was slightly smaller 515 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: than the typical results of SEAPAP therapy. But as the 516 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: authors noted, one of the major hurdles with SEPAP is 517 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: no one really likes using them right, and that leads 518 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: to poor compliance. But that wasn't the case with the 519 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: digido Like the people who participated were super into it 520 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: and even practiced more often than the researchers had asked 521 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: them to, so in the long run, the ditch my 522 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: be the better choice for some patients. Also, while we're talking, 523 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: about the dijid Did you know the name is an automatopoia. 524 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 3: I did not, actually, just I don't know what I 525 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 3: thought the origins were. I just assumed it was an 526 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 3: Australian Aboriginal word. 527 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually thought the same thing. But it turns 528 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: out the word doesn't exist in any of the local languages. 529 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: Like They've got their own names for it. They call 530 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: it the yadaki or the mago. So while the instrument 531 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: itself is thought to be one of the oldest on 532 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: the planet, the name dijidoo was likely coined by Europeans 533 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: who settled around the turn of the twentieth century, and 534 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: they called it that to mimic the rhythmic sounds it produces. Anyway, 535 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: I was so curious if there was any sort of 536 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: anecdotal evidence to back this up, so I went on 537 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,959 Speaker 1: the sleep Apnea subreddit, and sure enough, there are a 538 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: whole bunch of posts from people who report improved sleep 539 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: after learning how to play the digerdoo. There's just one drawback, 540 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: and what would that be? The digitdoo sound is loud. 541 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: So it's true, while your sleep might be getting better, 542 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: your relationship with your neighbors might get work. 543 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 3: Oh you know, Mega, We've been doing an Instagram contest 544 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 3: every day of this countdown, and I already mentioned that 545 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 3: we're giving away sheets of Zorbix today, but since this 546 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 3: is the grand finale, we're also going to give away 547 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 3: a digital do sleep Apnea kit comes with everything you 548 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,719 Speaker 3: need to become a well rested digital player by our 549 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 3: neighbors Samir Plugs. Go to our Instagram at part Time 550 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 3: Genius to get all the contest details. 551 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been really fun doing these contests and maybe 552 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: we'll do more of them in the future, But that 553 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: brings us to the end of our great Science Ideas countdown. 554 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: We really hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. 555 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: And in addition to Gabe, Mary and Dylan, a shout 556 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: out to Lucas Riley, who also helped us research a 557 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: bunts of this Calypso Rales is mailing out all the 558 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: gifts and helping us with social media. And we also 559 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: want to thank all the inventors and scientists we spoke 560 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: with for helping us make this happen. But from Will 561 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: and myself, thank you to all those folks, and thank 562 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: you to you. We feel so lucky that we get 563 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: to make this show, and we're really thrilled you're listening. 564 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius is the production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. 565 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: This show is hosted by Will Pearson and me Mongaishatikler 566 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: and research by our good pal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's 567 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: episode was engineered and produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan 568 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: with support from Tyler Klang. The show is executive produced 569 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: for iHeart by Katrina Norbel and Ali Perry, with social 570 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: media support from Sasha Gay, Trustee Dara Potts and Viney Shorey. 571 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 572 00:29:51,800 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.