1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Four dead bodies and a 2 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: naked man covered in mud On your doorstep. Four dead 3 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: bodies and a naked guy covered in mud, raise your doorbell. 4 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:40,279 Speaker 1: That's how this whole thing goes down. Crime Stories with 5 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Let's start at the best place to start, 6 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: the beginning with a nine one one call. Take a listen, 7 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: crying police finds recorded Hello grotten, please, how are you good? 8 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: We're a you for? This is a Jim Moore, Rockport 9 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: Police batman and Rockport mean. Okay, what I've got is 10 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: a mental health Is this a Ryan Cross? Holy cow? Yes, 11 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: it is you? Like the fifth call, We've got an answer. 12 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: We've got an officer on the scene, and we got 13 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: the ums on the way. Is there any does he 14 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: have any weapons? Do we know or we none that 15 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: I know of. I got a call from one of 16 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: his former teachers in Oberlin. Yes, mister head Dad, Okay, okay, 17 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: I talk to him. Okay, all right, We've we've got 18 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: people on scene, sir. All right, very good. Thank you. 19 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: They got a lot bigger problem than what they know 20 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: of right there. Again, thank you for being with us. 21 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Let me introduce you an all 22 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of the four dead bodies. 23 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: I'm less worried about the naked guy than I am 24 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: about the four dead bodies. You know, when I first 25 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: started prosecuting, I had never really seen a naked guy 26 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: at a crime scene before. I've been in a lassroom 27 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: studying Shakespearean literature. But for some reason I got used 28 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: to seeing naked guys sometimes covered in mud. But when 29 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: a civilian goes to the door and sees a naked 30 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: guy completely covered in mud, I guess they do call 31 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: nine one one with me. Dale Carson, veteran criminal defense 32 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: attorney joining us out of Jacksonville. But what I really 33 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: like about him is the fact that he's a former FED, a, 34 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: former FBI agent, former cop, and author of Arrest Proof Yourself. 35 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: I don't like that part. You can find him at 36 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: Dale Carson Law dot com. Doctor Angela Arnold joining me 37 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: renowned psychiatrists out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold 38 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: MD dot com. Dan Coorstantino former police chief and Fountain, Colorado, 39 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: former sheriff and on US Homeland Security Senior Advisory BOARDIESPI 40 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: now at dan Coorstantino dot com. Doctor Todd M. Barrp 41 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: Medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining us out of Cleveland, and 42 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: An Jeanette Levy First to You, Emmy nominated reporter and 43 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: anchor Twitter at An Jeannette five and Jeannette take a 44 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: Listen to our friend the Middlesex District Attorney Mary and 45 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: Ryan Listen. On Thursday evening, mister Krause left his home 46 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: in Rockport, Maine. Shortly after he left, his mother, Missus Krause, 47 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: had some concern about where he might be going. She 48 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: reached out to the Rockport, Maine police, indicating the vehicle 49 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: that her son was driving. She was reassured by being 50 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: contacted by her son early on Friday morning indicated he 51 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: was fine. He had traveled to the Great of Boston area. 52 00:03:54,760 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: Later on Friday morning, Ryan Krause contacted his mother again 53 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: and ask for a ride back home to me. She 54 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: agreed to come to the Great of Boston area and 55 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: pick him up, which she did. The original plan was 56 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: for them to return back to the family home. At 57 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: some point a decision was made to go and visit 58 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: Orian's grandparents in Grayton. So we're hearing so far about 59 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: a grand man calling his mom saying I'm on the 60 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: way to Boston and then they join up and they 61 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: head to the grandparents. But now take a listen to 62 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: our friends at WCVB Channel five, Boston investor dators say 63 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: they got a call for help from a location near 64 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: this home. Police responded, they found that individual, gathered some information, 65 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: then travel to another location on Common Street. At that 66 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: location they found for deceased individuals. There is no cause 67 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: for alarm. This was not a random act. We do 68 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: believe at this point that the people were all connected 69 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: and had relationships and the town is safe as it 70 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: pertains to this particular incident. State police are expected back 71 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 1: on the property with dogs and possibly a drone. The 72 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: medical examiner, leaving not too long ago, straight out to 73 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: doctor Todd M. Barr, deputy medical examiner joining us out 74 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: of Cleveland. Doctor Barr, that is a medical examiner's nightmare. 75 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what's the first thing you do when you 76 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: go into a residence a tree lined street crime rate 77 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: and you find mass murder? Well, Nancy, it's it's a 78 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: It's one of those things where you you've got to 79 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: go in and you just got to start absorbing the 80 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: information as you go very slowly. We work very meticulously 81 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: from the outside end. The first thing we do is 82 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: not go directly to the bodies. You want to start 83 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: from the outside end so that you don't miss any 84 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: evidence or any blood spatter or any kind of evidence 85 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: that may come back around to help solve this crime. 86 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: For instance, like was the door forced open? Was the door? 87 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: Are there bloody fingerprints on the door? Is the flower 88 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: pot kicked over where there may have been a spare key? 89 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: Are their treadmarks, footprints like moody footprints, footprints at the 90 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: the the doormat at the front. And then you know 91 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: a lot of people believe this is just on TV, 92 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: but you guys fully suit up in footies like surgical footies. 93 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: Explain that part for people that have not been on 94 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: a crime scene. You guys actually look like um pasmat works. 95 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: You're so totally covered. Tell me the whole thing. Well, 96 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: the reason for that is so as not to disperse 97 00:06:55,000 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: any trace evidence or disturb anything, or introduce or transfer 98 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: DNA evidence. That means, yeah, I mean, god forbid one 99 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: of your hairs ends up on a mass murder scene exactly. Ay, 100 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: of course, we know immediately would figure out at some 101 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: point that it was yours. But then that would give 102 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: the defense the perfect argument about contamination and evidence could 103 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: be thrown out. That's just what you don't I want 104 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: you to tell me what do you guys wear Exactly? 105 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: We wear these ka sort of jumpers, jumpsuits that zip up, 106 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: and you have the hood and the hairnets and the 107 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: gloves and the booties over the shoes, so everything is 108 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: pretty much covered. Okay, So you start on the outside end. 109 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: You get a call you hear from a cop. There's 110 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: four dead bodies, which means the cop has already gone 111 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: in and possibly contaminated the same. But the reality is 112 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: they have to They've got to go in. I always 113 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: hate that at trial Dell Carson, where people Dell Carson, 114 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: just like you say, the cops contaminated the scene. What 115 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: do you want them to do stand outside and wonder 116 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: what's going on on the inside. Well, and on the 117 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: off chance that somebody is still alive, they want to 118 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: go in and try to help someone. That's exactly Champion Dale. 119 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: This is the first and most important object of law 120 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: enforcement is to make sure that if someone is still alive, 121 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: that they can be protected. So that's the first thing. 122 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: The second thing, obviously is to look for the assailant. 123 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: So that's what why cops go in. But it's great 124 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: for the defense attorney because when they do that, they 125 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: introduce trace evidence into the scene, which, in a sense, 126 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: as you say, contaminates it and there's not a thing, 127 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: Dan Corsentino, they can be done about that. You're the 128 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 1: former police chief, what do you tell your cadets. Well, 129 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: we're telling our people that they are first of all observing, 130 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: and we want them to observe before they enter, to 131 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: make sure that there is absolutely no contamination. And I 132 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: think that doctor Tom Barr obviously Dale hit the nail 133 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: on the head. You don't want to compromise the scene. 134 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: The integrity of the scene is most important. Also, let 135 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: me just comment that yes, the individual people that are 136 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: inside the house, should there be one alive, that certainly 137 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 1: is a very important factor. But law enforcement also is 138 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: looking at the perimeter of the scene to see the 139 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: path of least resistance in and the path of least 140 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: resistance out, if you will, wear this individual, the potential 141 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: suspect in this case, how they exit it. And so 142 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: you're going to be paying very close attention to the 143 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: perimeter as much as once you get into the scene itself. Absolutely, 144 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: and again I can't stress enough how infuriating it is 145 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 1: a trial when the defense jumps on the cop for 146 00:09:50,360 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: possible contamination of a crime scene. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, 147 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: we are talking about four dead bodies found on a rural, 148 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: a tree lined street, a low crime rate, which makes 149 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: it all the mark more a stark comparison. How did 150 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: it all happen? And how does some other guy end 151 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: up buck naked, covered in mud on somebody's front doorstep. Guys, 152 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our cut nine. 153 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: This is our friends. Julie Nonsch at WCVB, Middlesex DA. 154 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: Marion Ryan says it all began when Kraus, a recent 155 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: college grad and musician, left his home and his mother 156 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: in Rockport, Mean the night before. She was so concerned 157 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: she called police. She was reassured by being contacted by 158 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: her son early on Friday morning. Wyndicated he was fine. 159 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: He had traveled to the Great of Boston Area Authority 160 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: see Krause asked for a ride home, and his mother agreed. 161 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 1: At some point, a decision was made to go and 162 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: visit Oriyan's grandparents in Gratton. Hours later, four adults, eighty 163 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: nine year old Frank Darby Lucky, He's eighty five year 164 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 1: old wife Elizabeth, Their daughter Elizabeth Buffy Krause, age sixty, 165 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: and Bertha May Parker were found dead. What I don't 166 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 1: get yet is a connection between the naked muddy mcguiye 167 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: on the doorstep and the four dead bodies and an 168 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: overprotected mom worried about her grown son who took his 169 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 1: car to Boston and she wants him to check in constantly. 170 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: Let's go to the scene. Joining me right now, Anjeanette Levy, 171 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: Emmy nominated reporter and anchor. Anjeanette tell me about the area. Well, 172 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: you've mentioned it was a nice tree line street. You know, 173 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: it sounds like just a lovely little neighborhood where this 174 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: family lived. And you know, there were two older people 175 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: there in the home. And also obviously o'rian's mother had 176 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: taken him to see his grandparents. Those were the two 177 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: older people. You know. I'm thinking about this, Doctor Angela 178 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: Arnold psychiatrist joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. I 179 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: have been accused of being overprotective. I mean, how can 180 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: I help but be overprotective when I see kidnaps and 181 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: murders and sex assaults all day long. But you would 182 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: think when your son is grown, you wouldn't be all 183 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: worried just because he takes a day trip, much less 184 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: call police because your son hasn't called you, and then 185 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: within one hour he does call you. When does it 186 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: cross the line from being overprotective to some kind of 187 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: a mental mental disorder? You know, Nancy, there are mothers 188 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: that are overprotective for no good reason, and that is 189 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: definitely their own issue because as a mother you and 190 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: I both know, and a mother, while your child grows up, 191 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: you have to slowly pull your influence away from that 192 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: child and allow them to grow, saying, and so if 193 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 1: someone has been over protective of a twenty something year 194 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: old a college grad, yeah, that's I mean, the kid 195 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,599 Speaker 1: was able to go to a college. Oberlin is a 196 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: really good college, really say music there. These are not 197 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: easy programs to get into. And he was away apparently 198 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: for four years studying music at Oberlin College. It's a 199 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: very rigorous program. And he's graduated and he's out driving 200 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: his car to Boston, which is what like an hour 201 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 1: and a half from there something like that, which is 202 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: not an unusual thing for someone of his age to do. So. 203 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: I don't understand why the mother feels the need to 204 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 1: be checking in with him, and for goodness sake, to 205 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: call the police because she thinks because he's left. Yeah, 206 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: I'm sure that I wonder if you know. Let me 207 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: just ask I've got three former cops with me right now. 208 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: Let me ask you, Dan Corsentino, former Chief of Police Fountain, Colorado, 209 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: did you ever have over protective moms calling nine one 210 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: one no on their adult children, like I don't know 211 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: where they are. I've never had that my career. Okay, 212 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: then I'm marking you off. What about it, Dell Carson. Well, 213 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: we've had checks where people called and want somebody to 214 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: be checked on, but generally it doesn't involve just having 215 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: left in a car and gone someplace. In the mother's thought, Well, 216 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: can I tell you something, Della Carson and doctor Angela 217 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: Arnold and Dan Corsentino, We're all wrong. Mommy had reason 218 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: to worry. Take a listen to our cut eleven. This 219 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: is Christina Hagar WBZ, Boston. It was shortly after that 220 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: he showed up at his grandparents neighbor's home and Gront 221 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: naked and muddy. He says, I need I need help, 222 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: and then he adds, right, I murder four people. He 223 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: said that right straight out to me and my wife. 224 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: It has stunned the small town of Groton, where residents 225 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: gathered for a weekend vigil, flowers and a flag at 226 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: the murder scene. Days later, police still watching over and 227 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: just as that neighbor here was calling police, so were 228 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: family members saying a friend had contacted them with concerns 229 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: about something O'Ryan Krause had told them. By then it 230 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: was too late. He is now in Bridgewater State Hospital 231 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: undergoing a psychiatric evaluation. He's being held without bail. Take 232 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: a listen now to this second nine one one call, Well, 233 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: let me quarter one he is. I'm calling for forty 234 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: two Common Street. My name is Wagner cost We have 235 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: a young guy about twenty years old, completed, naked with mud. 236 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: He's a little bit crazy and he keeps saying that 237 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: he murder four people. Don't know kid. I let him 238 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: sit in the backyard. He's just sitting in a chair. 239 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: But he stay in the line with me. Don't hang up, okay, 240 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: hold one, we got into the unit. You cat head 241 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: over the forty two Common Street. There's a point of 242 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: a psychiatritiue, I'm gonna mail party, no clothing on, covering 243 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: mud yelling at somebody at a house at forty two. Okay, sure, 244 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: I have them on the way. I'm just gonna stay 245 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: in the line with you while while while they're on 246 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: the way. Okay, okay, I'm about I'm gonna kick. I'm 247 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: gonna get the kid Powell. I wouldn't I wouldn't go 248 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: anywhere near him. Okay, do not go anywhere near him. Okay, 249 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: that's fine. I'm looking into the window. Keep sitting in 250 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: the backyard, that's fine. Just let him, let him sit there. Oh, 251 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: dear Lord in heaven, the neighbor. I was gonna approach 252 00:16:55,040 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: this person, a twenty two year old Oberlin University graduate 253 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: with a power aid, and you hear the cops saying, no, no, 254 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: don't go anywhere near him, don't give him a power aid, 255 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: stay away. I want to go straight back out to 256 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: Dan Krsentino, former share of former police chief. When you're 257 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:25,360 Speaker 1: just dispatch and you realize there's a life threatening situation, 258 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: what do you do for Pete saying don't give him 259 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: a power aid? I mean you could hear the dispatch 260 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: officer upsegue no, no, don't. Yeah. Absolutely, that's a very 261 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: disturbing it. That's a very upsetting situation. Absolutely, I mean 262 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: there's extreme caution. The inbound call that came in to 263 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: the dispatch center, that communication officer was on the game 264 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: immediately and they were attempting to isolate the good Samaritan 265 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: neighbor who was trying to assist those young men at 266 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: this time. But the dispatcher gave great advice to maintain 267 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: distance safety and basically contain himself in his house at 268 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: that time until the law enforcement arrived. As for law enforcement, 269 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: I know that Dell and Tom will agree. Law enforcement 270 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: is going to be using extreme caution based on the 271 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: information that they have. This is a very unusual case. 272 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: It doesn't happen all the time, and their alert system 273 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: is going to go into play time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 274 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: we are talking about a man that shows up on 275 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 1: a doorstep completely naked and covered in blood. He asks 276 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: for help, he wants help, and then he mentions I 277 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: murdered four people. Take a listen now to our cut twelve. 278 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: This is justin darny w HDH I saw they had nothing. 279 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: Nothing he's having So I opened the door again and 280 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: I asked, well, you need he goes, I need help, 281 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: I need help. I'm murder for people. Those four people 282 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: O'rian Krause allegedly killed are his mom, grandparents, and his 283 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: grandparents caretaker officials. Suspect Kraus us a baseball bat the 284 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: grandparents neighbor Wagner. Al Koser thinks the nature of the 285 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: crime may explain why Kraus showed up on his back 286 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: patio naked and covered in mud, cleaning himself in an 287 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: earby pond. I asked him, where are you clothes? He said, 288 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: I left it in the woods. Wagner then got Kraus 289 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: a white sheet. You can see him here, face still 290 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: covered in mud. He just sat there for a while. 291 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: You sluck a start duel, without any expression, nothing. He 292 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: never had any emotion. Al Koser called police, but while 293 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: still showing no emotions, Kraus did tell al Koser one 294 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: other thing. He said, I need my sleeping belts, and 295 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: I said, look, just sit here, don't move. I will 296 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: get to help. Police arrived, taking Krause away, still in 297 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: the white sheet. Doctor Angela Arnold, why did we ever doubt. 298 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: Mommy at first, blush. You've got a mother actually calling 299 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: police because her college graduate son has taken their car 300 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: and drive into Boston an hour or so away, and 301 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: then she hasn't taught him, and then suddenly she gets 302 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: a call from him, and then everything's all right. Now 303 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: we understand. Was there any way on God's green earth 304 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: this mother did not know that he was dangerous? Oh? 305 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: I think she knew. I think she knew that he 306 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: was dangerous. And she probably lived in fear every day 307 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: of her life. And that's why she was so quick 308 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: to call the police when he went missing in her mind, 309 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: but in all of our minds, he didn't. He didn't 310 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: go missing. He just went on a trump But this 311 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: mother was well aware. And I have to wonder, I 312 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: have to wonder why she was so aware. What has 313 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: happened in the past, What has happened in the past. 314 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: And let me ask you this, could someone like this 315 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: manage to graduate from a rigorous program at Oberlin? Yes, 316 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 1: it's it's it's wild. I mean, they can show you 317 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: know somebody like this. They're all there. They are actually 318 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: several different reasons why an episode like this can happen. Okay. 319 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: There can be a health condition that causes this. Medications 320 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: can cause this, and drug use can cause this, and 321 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: people can come out of it, Nancy, and be okay 322 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: for periods of time when they come out of it. 323 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: So the structure of school may have helped this man 324 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: get through school, and he may have been being watched careful, 325 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: maybe medicated. I'm just saying that. But the mother, I'm 326 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: not ready to buy into the fact that he I'm 327 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: not ready to buy into the fact that he is insane, 328 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: which means right from wrong. At the time of the incident, 329 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about him going into a pond to try 330 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: to wash the mud off, discarding what I'm gonna guess, 331 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: our bloody clothes. Yeah, I think I hear Anjeanette Levy 332 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: jumping in joining us Anjeanette jump in. Well, I just 333 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: wanted to bring up, you know, there were some reports 334 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: in the from a former professor of his at Oberlin 335 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: at the College Conservatory of Music, who had told police 336 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: that he had said at least once before this, and 337 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: actually right before it happened, that he wanted to kill 338 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: his mom or believe that he had he had to 339 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: kill his mom, and then he had told a nurse 340 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: after it happened that he had also used herolyn. So 341 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: if he's mentally ill and then you're coupling it with heroin, 342 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: he could just be spiraling out of control. Okay, stop 343 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: right there, Anette Levy, that's incredibly important to me right now. 344 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: So I want to go back to doctor Angela Arnold, 345 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,479 Speaker 1: very renowned psychiatrist joining us out of Atlanta, Doctor Angie. 346 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: Two things. One and I'm going to get our law 347 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: enforcement to chime in as well as our medical examiner. 348 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: People think heroin was back in the seventies, like Jimmy 349 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: Hendrix time. No. No, let me tell you. My husband's 350 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: longtime friend had the golden boy, brilliant, beautiful, handsome, a 351 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: star on the track team. He tried heroin one time. 352 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: This is just a couple of years ago, Jackie. Heroin's 353 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: floating around in high schools. He tried at one time, 354 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: got hooked. The dad sent him to a psychiatric help, 355 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: you know, to get him off. He got off, He 356 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: went for a full year back in school, back on 357 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: the track team. Everything's fine. They find him dead of 358 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: a heroine overdose. It gets a hold of you like 359 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: nothing else I've seen that and meth I think are 360 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: right now the worst. But before we get to the 361 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: heroine possibility, I don't know that had anything to do 362 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: with this. Why does everybody want to kill their mother? 363 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: What is it about your mother? I love my mother. 364 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: I've never thought of actually killing her. Well, and again, Nancy, 365 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: we're talking about I mean, of course you don't want 366 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: to kill your mother, and I'll bet you don't do Haro. 367 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: I thought it's never crossed my mind. No, no, no, Angie, 368 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: no doctor Angie. If I may be so bold, people 369 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 1: that aren't on drugs kill their mothers. I mean, Norman 370 00:24:55,320 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: Bates was based in Hatred of your mother and in 371 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: case a very overbearing mother and a stuffed sitting in 372 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: a rocking chair for pizza. But people, what is it 373 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: about hating your mother and wanting to kill your remberdify 374 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 1: the problem, Dancy. And then problem is that some mothers 375 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: can be controlling, and when that happens to a young man, 376 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: sometimes they become very resistant when they get older or 377 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: they get on drug del Carson, as much as I 378 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: respect you, criminal defense attorney, former FBI author, are you 379 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: a shrink? Well, yeah, and in a sense I get 380 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: pause you're not all right, You're not. However, let me 381 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: back off that, because actually, any cough, anybody that's made 382 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: it all the way to FBI and former officer, you've 383 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: been around the block a couple of times, and you 384 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: know what you've seen. You don't have to have an 385 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: MD like doctor Angie to know what you just said. 386 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: And I agree with you two, But to murder her 387 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: I don't understand and murder my mom fantasies, doctor Angie, 388 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: as much as I agree with Delle Carson, Well, you 389 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: know you know what I'm gonna say, Nancy. I mean, now, 390 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: I don't terrible that this is the truth. Okay. First 391 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: of all, it's called matricide, the killing of the mother. Yes, 392 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: and Nancy, this is so horrible. It's like it's a 393 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: there's a combination of hatred for the mother and a 394 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: sexual desire. I can always count on you to just 395 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: kick things off, can I, Doctor Angie. Let's see, I 396 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: also disagree with that because girls kill their mother too, 397 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: not as often exactly. So, I don't think there's a 398 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: sex component to every well, there's not a sex component 399 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,719 Speaker 1: to every song about sex with you, doctor Angie. Somehow, 400 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: there's not a sex component to everything. But there's a 401 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: sex component to a lot of things. Okay, So if 402 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: it's a sex component, why about what about the other 403 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 1: dead bodies? Yah see sexually attracted to his grandfather. Well, 404 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: the other dead bodies. The other dead bodies could have 405 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: been a part of the psychosis that he was, that 406 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: he was involved in the at the time that it 407 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: was going on, and his hatred in his anger, and 408 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: he just killed everybody. They were just they could have 409 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: just been in the way, or maybe he had maybe 410 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: he had decided in his head that they all needed 411 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: to be gone. I mean, why did he kill the caregiver? 412 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: Why is the caregiver dead? Let me say that maybe 413 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: he just did not want control period crime stories with 414 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I want to go to doctor Todd M. Barr, 415 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: deputy medical examiner pathologist joining us out of Cleveland. He's seen, 416 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: I can only assume, and conducted thousands of autopsies. We 417 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: are understanding, doctor Barr, that a baseball bat is the 418 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: murder weapon. To me, that says rage, anger and rage. Absolutely. 419 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: I've been on several scenes where a baseball bat has 420 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: been used and it is probably one of the most 421 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: grizzly crime scenes. I've ever been on to to assault 422 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: somebody with a weapon like that, and four people, My 423 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: mind is kind of boggled when when one person is affected, 424 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: but four people, how were they all trapped? How did 425 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: one of them not get out? Not one? Well one 426 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: of them did get out, Yeah, and got was murdered 427 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: outside the hum Hey, doctor Todd and bar let me 428 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: just ask you a question off topic. Sure, the way 429 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: you started that explanation, you said, I've had several baseball 430 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: bat murders. Yeah. See, that's kind of thing most people 431 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: don't hear every day. I've had several baseball bat murders. Say, 432 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: are definitely feeling far between when you are out and about. 433 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: Let's just say you're at a dinner party, or you're 434 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: at church, in Sunday school, whatever wherever you may be. 435 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: Do you ever find it hard to just have a 436 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: normal conversation about the weather, or gas prices or politics. 437 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: I personally do not. I don't have any problem with that. 438 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: I have what I like to refer to as a 439 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: healthy detachment from the work I do and the life 440 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: that I live outside of my work. I'm glad to 441 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: hear that, because everything outside of the Twins my children, 442 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: and crime completely disinterests me. I'll just if I go 443 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: and somebody asked me about politics, don't care. You know, 444 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: the new cars, don't care, close jewelry, the weather, or 445 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: that they don't care. I'm sure that's in disorder that 446 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: doctor and you would like to deal. But let's move 447 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: on with the current case. Guys, take a listen to 448 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: our cutting number five from wc V. You can the 449 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: police still on the scene here. This is Common Street 450 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: in Groton. Five investigates has now learned that a baseball 451 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: bat may have been used in these murders. We have 452 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: some new video in this morning of Common Streets the 453 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: deadly quadruple murder scene. You can see the house from 454 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: the street and police still on the scene. Police discovered 455 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: that their bodies were in the home just after six 456 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: last night. Investigators say three women and a man suffered 457 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: blunt force trauma. Police did arrest O'rian Kraus, who they 458 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: believe is related to the victims. They call it a 459 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: tragic case of family violence. An older man and woman 460 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: and two middle aged women were killed. Three of the 461 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: bodies were found inside the home, a fourth outside, and 462 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: we're learning more about his demeanor articulists to Paul Burton 463 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: wb Z Boston. Wagner says when Krauss came to him, 464 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: he was acting very strange and covered in mud. Wagner 465 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: said he gave the man a white blanket and told 466 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: him to wait outside on this chair and immediately called police, 467 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: who placed him under arrest. Was extremely calm delivering his boys. 468 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: He surrendered himself. He didn't undersis. He did what I ask. 469 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: He followed my instructions all throughout the day. Neighbors and 470 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: passersbys could not believe the gruesome scene and police presence, 471 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: but glad police say this was an isolated incident and 472 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: not a random act. We're all touched by this in 473 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: some way, and my thoughts and prayers are with the family, 474 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: the neighbors, anybody close to them. They're sad, shocking that 475 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: innocent people had to go through such a horrendous death. 476 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: Police are still investigating so far, no word on a 477 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: motive to Ejoinette Levy, Emmy nominated reporter and anchor A Jeannette, 478 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: what can you tell us about Kross's disturbing behavior immediately 479 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: following the quadruple murders. Well, he apparently went to the 480 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: home to say he had killed the people, and he 481 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: was also singing and saying, I freed them, I freed them. Yes, 482 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: he said he was singing quietly. One of the officers 483 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: said that he saw him and singing quietly and said, 484 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,719 Speaker 1: I freed them. How did he come to be covered 485 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: in mud? Anjeanette, Well, he was cleaning himself off in 486 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: a pond of sorts. So as far as the mud goes, 487 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: I'm not one hundred percent clear on that. But I 488 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: don't know if he was rolling around in it or what. 489 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: But I know that the caregiver was sounded. Wasn't one 490 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: of the bodies found outside in the flower bed? Well, 491 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: if he tackled the person, the tackle the person and 492 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: killed her in the flower bed, I would imagine he 493 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: got dirty, right, But I'm also curious he had also 494 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: taken off all of his clothes. Were they covered in blood? 495 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: I mean, if this were a baseball bat quadruple murder, 496 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: I guess so right, and he I mean, it sounds 497 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: it almost sounded as if Bertha, the caregiver, was trying 498 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: to get out of the house, because when the police 499 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: went in there, they found, you know, Grandma and Grandpa 500 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: sitting at the kitchen table with the TV on. And 501 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: then Bertha, the caregiver to the grandparents, was outside in 502 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: the flower bed, so you would think he would have 503 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: already Maybe he killed the people inside, took his clothes off, 504 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: and then went outside and as she tried to escape, 505 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: But it seems like she probably would have been trying 506 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: to run away. What did police discover when they arrived 507 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: at the home. The grandparents were sitting at the kitchen table, 508 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: is what the police said. And the TV was on 509 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: in the kitchen. Wait, they were dead sitting at the 510 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,719 Speaker 1: kitchen table, correct, And they were still sitting there. Yeah, wow, okay, 511 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: I mean they're older, they're they're in their late eight 512 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: They're also dead from a baseball bat. They're sill sitting 513 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: there with the TV going. I understand that a wooden 514 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: bat with blood on it was found under a tree 515 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: in the backyard, along with the back of golf clubs. 516 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: In the backyard there was a pile of clothes, a pillow, 517 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: a pair of shoes, which is interesting that were placed 518 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: not thrown in the woods nearby too. Doctor Angela Arnold, 519 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: what does the especially brutal nature of the bludgeoning death 520 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: tell us about the killer's mindset. He was so angry, 521 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: She was so angry at these people. How in the 522 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 1: world could someone I don't understand how somebody can bludgeon 523 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: and not one person, Nancy, but four people, and people 524 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: that he is supposed to love. He must have been 525 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 1: very angry with them. And I also believe he felt, 526 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: in some way that we haven't uncovered yet, very controlled 527 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: by these well by his They aren't us Dale. And 528 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,720 Speaker 1: the reason they went to the grandfather's house is because 529 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: the stable families, the matriarch and the patriarch are the 530 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: ones who can calm things down, because they have a 531 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: long view of what goes on in the world. And 532 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: so by taking her son to see them, she's trying 533 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: to establish some calming and control over him. That's why 534 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: they were there. We know what's really interesting to you, 535 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: Anginette Levy. Kraus's own mother had called police the day before, 536 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 1: not just about the missing car, but fearing her son 537 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: was suicidal, and she also said, um, tell them the 538 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: cops my son NIE's gentleness, not force. But they were 539 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: I mean, she obviously felt that was the best way 540 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: to deal with him. Maybe there had been some issues 541 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: in the past where she had encountered him, and um, 542 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: maybe he became violent at times, but it obviously didn't 543 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 1: work because they were all beaten in the head according 544 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: to the police report. Right, and even mom was yeah, 545 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: it's just so there was something something happened, and she 546 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: was concerned enough to call the police. And he had 547 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 1: talked about killing his mom, so yes, he had, he 548 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: told his instructor at Oberlin, guys, take a little Oriyan 549 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: Krause appeared unfazed in a courtroom with a band aid 550 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: on his arm, accused of bludgeoning his own mother to 551 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: death with a baseball bat, also his elderly maternal grandparents 552 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: and their caretaker, all of them here at their Grotton 553 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 1: home Friday. District Attorney Mary and Ryan explained Kraus's mother, 554 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Lackey Krause, also known as Buffy, had contacted police 555 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: in their hometown of Rockport, Maine, the day before she 556 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: was murdered, saying her son left home. Is mother, Missus 557 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: Krause had some concern about where he might be going. 558 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: She reached out to the Rockpoint, Maine police, indicating the 559 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: vehicle that her son was driving. But Ryan says the 560 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: twenty two year old then contacted his mother Friday morning, 561 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: saying he was okay, that he was in Massachusetts, and 562 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: later asked her to come get him, which she did. 563 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: At some point, a decision was made to go and 564 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: visit Oriyan's grand parents, Ingratin straight back to Anginette Levy 565 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: anchor and reporter. Initially the defense was considering an insanity defense, 566 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,879 Speaker 1: but it didn't work. Why not, well, because they sent 567 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: him to the hospital for forty days and he was 568 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: deemed competent, So, you know, even if he had some 569 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: mental illness, they still determined that he was able to 570 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: understand what he was doing was wrong at the time 571 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 1: that it happened. You know, that's a fine line, del 572 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: Carson when you're talking about competency to stand trial versus 573 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: the insanity police. Insanity means you did not know right 574 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: from wrong at the time of the incident, and competent 575 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 1: to stand trial means at the time of the trial 576 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 1: you are in such a bad shape you cannot assist 577 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: your counsel. They're not the same thing. Well, that's exactly 578 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: right now. When you have a psychotic episode, as this 579 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: individual apparently had, then it also reflects some organization. Right, 580 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: he left the evidence was stood up against the tree 581 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: the weapon was, and then he tried to hide the 582 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,879 Speaker 1: blood on himself, and then he wandered to a neighbor's house. 583 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:18,359 Speaker 1: It shows some level of competence. He wasn't entirely psychotic 584 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: after the event, and then he had that post events 585 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: calmness that the neighbor observed what he was sitting in 586 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: the chair because his rage had all been expelled at 587 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 1: that point, you know, doctor Angie falling up on what 588 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: del Carson is saying. Typically I argue that someone is 589 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 1: not insane, that they did know right from wrong at 590 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: the time of the incident. But I really think this 591 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: guy had a psychotic episode and that he was insane 592 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: at the time of the incident. I rarely think that, 593 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: but in a lot of the fact that he had 594 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: threatened suicide the day before that he had called his 595 00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: professor in the days preceding the quadruple Homas and said, 596 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: I think I need to kill my mother. To me, 597 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: I mean, you are covered in my buck naked, you're 598 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: trying to clean off in a pond, and then you 599 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: set in somebody's back seat peacefully wrapped in a sheet 600 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 1: till the cops come get you. That sounds insane to me. 601 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: I know, Nancy, it sounds insane to me also, and 602 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: it sounds like this had listen. He was thinking about this, 603 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: this was brewing inside of him. He got it done, 604 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: and then he was and done. The calmness came because 605 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: he got it done. Nancy, I don't understand why there 606 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: wasn't any intervention before this incident happened. Why didn't somebody 607 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: will proof of this. He pled guilty, but he got 608 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 1: four second degree murder convictions, but the reality is he's 609 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,359 Speaker 1: going to go to a regular jail for twenty five 610 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:02,280 Speaker 1: years at least. I don't like the idea of someone 611 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: that has mental illness or insanity in with gp general population, 612 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 1: because who knows what's going to happen to him. I mean, 613 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,919 Speaker 1: my concern is with the victims, but I do think 614 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: this guy is insane. I guess we're going to have 615 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: to just trust that the system did the right thing 616 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,280 Speaker 1: putting him in jail as opposed to a mental facility. 617 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 1: I know this, he will not see the light of 618 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: day for at least twenty five years. Nancy Grace Crime 619 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: Story signing off Goodbye. F