1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Tomato tomato. Yes, we should make a shirt that says 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: tomato tomato. We're the only ones I find this funny. 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's hilarious. Guess what today an episode 4 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: is about. My name is Eva Longoria and I am 5 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: and welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores 6 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: our past and present through food. On every episode, we'll 7 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: talk about the history of some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, 8 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: and beverages. So make yourself at home. Speaking of tomato, 9 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: tomato is a tomato a vegetable or fruit? Mighty, It's 10 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: kind of both, but botanically, Botanically speaking, the tomatoes are fruit. 11 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: In eighteen ninety three, a decision by the Supreme Court 12 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: of the United States said that tomatoes should be classified 13 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: as a vegetable and tax as a vegetable. I love 14 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: that there is a there's a Supreme Court decision on this, 15 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: Like what come on, Supreme Court? And in eighteen ninety three, 16 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: there was a lot of shit going on in the 17 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: country that they should have been more focused on, but 18 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: deciding on whether or not the tomato was a vegetable 19 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: or a fruit was taking precedent. What's wild to me 20 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: is that when people think of the tomato. They usually 21 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: associated with the Italians, the tomato sauce on the pizza, 22 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: marinara sauce, you know. But tomatoes are endemic to Mehico, Mexico, 23 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: one of the many ingredients that Mexico has given the world. 24 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: So who first cultivated tomatoes? They're endemic to Mexico and 25 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: meso America. But like who first started like cultivating, we 26 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: don't know exactly because the seeds are so tiny that 27 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: it's hard to trace. You know. Really they were first 28 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: cultivated in the ninth century by the Aztecs, although again 29 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 1: they were probably cultivated earlier than that. Sophie Coo, this 30 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: amazing historian who wrote this book which I love, America's 31 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: First Cuisines. She says that the met that the tomato 32 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: very likely originated in South America but made its way 33 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: north to Mexico, you know, hundreds of years ago, probably 34 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: carried by birds. Same for chiles, which we'll talk about 35 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: in another episode, and potato and potato, pineapple, like so 36 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 1: many things that are native to you know, South America. Yeah, 37 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: so you know it's something that they were consuming, you know, 38 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 1: pre conquest, sliced tomatoes, probably making salsas like we like 39 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: we do today, will make some sort of salsa or 40 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: some sort of pico pico de gallo Francisco. He wrote 41 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: this so basically talking about his observations of New Spain 42 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: and fifty sixty and he describes it. The tomatoes were 43 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: added to sauces and stews to temper the heat of 44 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 1: the Chiles, and they added a really nice tartness to food. 45 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,839 Speaker 1: Oh that makes sense, yeah, acidically it could bring down 46 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: the heat on a Chile. Well. Also, the word tomato, 47 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: and probably the reason we associate it so much with 48 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: Meso America and the Aztecs is the noato word, which 49 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: means round and plump. And so then when the Spaniards arrived, 50 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: they called it. They couldn't say the word, would like 51 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: I can't say the word and they change it. Yeah, 52 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: the tomato, soy, It was basically referred to many round 53 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: and plump fruits. The red tomato is called the ht 54 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: the green tomato is called the total. But even today 55 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: in Mexico, I grew up just calling the and but 56 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: in other parts to Mexico the red tomatoes, green tomatoes 57 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: the too. It's so confusing when I'm in Mexico and 58 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: I'm trying to cook or asking asking, uh, somebody, hey, 59 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: can you pick me up some tomatoes? I go, can 60 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: you you know? And they go and they bring me 61 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: green ones, and I go, no, no, hie? Which is 62 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: the red one? Yeah, it's confusing. They have such a 63 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: different flavors. The green tomato that has the husk, it's 64 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: very um, a little bit sour. It's great for saltzas. 65 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: Green saltzas I love. And the red one is much milder. 66 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: I make an amazing tomato salsa fresh or cooked. I 67 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: cooked my salsa. I roast them and then I blend 68 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: them and then I cook it. So I do I 69 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: do both. So if the tomato is endemic to Messo America, 70 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: how did it get to Europe? Okay? And did it 71 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: get a bad reputation? The tomato goes to Europe and 72 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: gets a bad reputation. Why this is a crazy story, 73 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: like so many ingredients that have such crazy story. So 74 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: reached Europe around fifteen forty via city Yam right. It 75 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: was the center for international trade, especially with Italy. Naples 76 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: was part of Spain. Right, so it made its way 77 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: from Mexico to Spain, and then it made its way 78 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: to Italy. So according to Andrew Smith who's this wrote 79 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 1: this book which is amazing, it's called the tomato in America. 80 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: One of the earliest known references to the tomato was 81 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: made by an Italian Italian herbalist named Bertietto Manthioli. He 82 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: refers to it as a golden apple and it was 83 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: a nightshade and related to a man drake, which was 84 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: an Old World food that was known for an aphrodisiac. 85 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: This man drake was basically used as a as a 86 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: love potion. And then in England around the same time, 87 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: there is this herbalist named John Girard. He published a 88 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: book called The History of Plants, and he tells us 89 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: that the plant is poisonous. Why would he say that 90 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: if he's an herbalist like he should know that that 91 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: it's not. They weren't really sure what they were what 92 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: they were doing. He considered the whole plant to be 93 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: of rank and stinking savor. And he talks about He 94 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: says that the Spaniards and the Italians were eating it, 95 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: but that it was poisonous. Oh, because the leaves, the 96 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: leaves and stock are toxic, but not the fruit. But 97 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: not the fruit, but this false opinion of the tomato, 98 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: whatever it prevailed. One thing that I find the most 99 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: interesting about all of this is that by the seventeen hundreds, 100 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: and we're talking, you know, almost two hundred years later, 101 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: many Europeans they were terrified of the tomato because aristocrats 102 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: would eat from pewter plates, so they got sick and 103 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: a lot of them died after eating tomatoes. But it 104 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: wasn't the tomato itself. It was the acid and the 105 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: tomato that caused lead to leach from the pewter plates. 106 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: So they were getting lead poisoning, but they didn't It 107 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: wasn't the tomato. It was the lead. But they didn't 108 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: really put two and two to anything that they would eat. 109 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: They would be poisoned. They could put eggs on that 110 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: plate and they would be poisoned. Yeah, but maybe it's 111 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: it's the acid and the tomato that really got it 112 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: caused of poixactly exactly. So it wasn't until that late 113 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds that the popularity in Europe began to grow. 114 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: But people in Spain and people in Italy were eating 115 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: the tomato. Don't go anywhere. We've got more on the 116 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: history of the luscious tomato when we get back, stay 117 00:07:50,080 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: with us. The earliest known printed recipe for tomato appears 118 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: in sixteen ninety four The Modern Steward by Antonio Latini, 119 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: and he did a sauce. It was a tomato sauce 120 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: called Spanish style, but it was the sauce was used 121 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: on meats, and so in Italy, the people who started 122 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: eating tomatoes because there was nothing else available. It was 123 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: actually a food for the poor, and they couldn't eat 124 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: all of it because they couldn't preserve it or store it. 125 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: So they started making these sauces to put on pasta 126 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: and pizza so that they could use up the tomatoes 127 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: because you know, they don't they don't last very long 128 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: if you get a good ripe tomato. So by the 129 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: nineteenth century Italians this is where the popularity of Italian 130 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: sauce was born for pasta pizza, because they would mix 131 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: them with beans and other foods and that it's very cool. 132 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: And this guy Antonio Latini was amazing, like he has 133 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: this earliest printed recipe for tomatoes. He also gives us 134 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: the first printed recipe for survey. I think it's too 135 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: were interesting that he calls it tomato sauce. Spanish child, 136 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: because we don't actually see a tomato recipe in Spain 137 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: until seventeen forty five. But so then what about the 138 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: tomato in the US. What's the first known reference? So 139 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: the first known reference in colonial America is also from 140 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: an English herbalist. This is a man named William Salmon 141 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: or Salmon, I'm not sure you pronounce the last name, 142 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: but Nolochia of seventeen ten, and he talks about the 143 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: tomatoes being cultivated in the Carolinas. So this is interesting, 144 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: like how did the tomato get there? Maybe they were 145 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: brought over by Spanish, French, or Caribbean settlers. Maybe it 146 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: was also that it slaved Africans introduced the tomato to 147 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: the region because they were responsible for cooking on southern plantations. 148 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: So there are various theories as to how the tomato 149 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: got here, but it likely came to the US via 150 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: Old World, not via Mexico. It was it the America 151 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: that made it possible to commercially process canned tomatoes so 152 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: that they were available all year round. And so this 153 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: is what this was the entrance of Campbells condensed tomatoes, 154 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: soup and the food market in eighteen sixty early because 155 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: they popularize Yes, I didn't know can did I? But 156 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: I have to say, actually, I want to say one thing. 157 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: It was the French that it that invented canning. It 158 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: was Campbell's in eighteen sixty nine that would popularize the 159 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: mass production of canned tomato formats and the sale of 160 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: canned tomatoes. So Americans weren't just eating fresh tomatoes and 161 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: including them and the recipes, but they were using canned 162 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: tomatoes to make these meals. And canned food was obviously 163 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: shelf stable, so it required no storage, and it could 164 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: be eaten year round, and it lasted a lot longer. 165 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: So this was pretty genius of absolutely. Yeah. And so 166 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: this whole concept of canning really revolutionize the food world 167 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: in general, not just for tomatoes. And this is a 168 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: technique that was developed, you know, in France, but even 169 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: you know before this, we see you know, Mary Randolph 170 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: this cookbook eighteen twenty four. She has seventeen different tomato recipes, 171 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: including an early American recipe for ketchup, which is interesting 172 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: speaking of ketchup, because ketchup originally is not based from tomatoes. 173 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: The ancestor of modern ketchup was tomato free, where did 174 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: it come from. It comes from an ancient Chinese sauce, 175 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: a fermented soybeans and fish sauce called kets up or 176 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: goat chop, So that's where the word ketchup comes from. 177 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: But the original ketchup has no tomato in it. But 178 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: the word and the sauce were brought to Britain in 179 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: the early seventeen hundreds, but since they didn't have any soybeans, 180 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: they started using anchovies or mushrooms or walnuts or oysters. 181 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: American colonists brought these recipes with them to the US 182 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: and experimented with what they had. So they were first 183 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: using apples and then they were using beans. And it 184 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: wasn't until eighteen twelve that a Philadelphia scientist named James 185 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: Mesee that he developed the first tomato ketchup made from 186 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: love apples as they were still called. And then and 187 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: then John Hines, as in Hinz Ketchup, later introduced a 188 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: recipe which included vinegar, brown sugar, and spices, and he 189 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: pioneered the use of the glass bottles. So Hines was 190 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: the first to add vinegar, which acted as a preservative, 191 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: and that was an eighteen seventy six and two Date 192 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: is the best selling brand of ketchup and the best ketchup. 193 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: It really is. I love it. It's the best ketch 194 00:12:51,600 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: because it has vinegar. I love a vinegary ketchup. Now, today, 195 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: the tomato market, which includes fresh and processed, is estimated 196 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: to be worth about three point eight billion dollars, So 197 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: it's it makes tomatoes one of the most consumed produce 198 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: in America, second only to potatoes. So potatoes is the 199 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: number one consumed produce in America and number two is tomatoes. 200 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: That's interesting. And it's also one of the most genetically 201 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: modified vegetables for vegetables, which is why sometimes we take 202 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: a taste tomato and it tastes meally and it just 203 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: or doesn't or just taste like water, doesn't taste like nothing. 204 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: It's because of this, it's because it's been modified. Well, 205 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 1: there's many there's what thousands of tomato varieties, and a 206 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,959 Speaker 1: lot of them are hybrids, thousands, thousands, And that's why 207 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: you're right. That's why some of them have no flavor, 208 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: and some of them are large and sturdy, like the 209 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: beef steak. I think the beef steak tomato has an 210 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: air flavor. They just have a good texture. But the 211 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: air good texture. Yeah, but the airloom I love. I 212 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: love the airloom because they're I also feel like I 213 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: love all the colors that they come in and their taste. 214 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: It's like it's just perfect if you lightly salted, it's 215 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: just so good. A good airloom tomato is just oh, 216 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: it's like heaven. Different colors like purple and green and 217 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: yellow and all these colors. Yeah, absolutely, and different shapes different. 218 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: I love the different sizes, super bumpy, I love them. 219 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: You know, I use a lot of I actually use 220 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: a lot of Rama tomatoes. They're also known as like 221 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: the plum. They look like a plum size because they're 222 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: sweet and juicy. I use those for for all my 223 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: Italian sauces, Palma bolan asy like I use I use 224 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: what do you use for your h roma? It's usually 225 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: what I get drama, and then in the summers I 226 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: get the airloom tomatoes. I love that Marzano is known 227 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: as the rolls Royce of tomatoes because I do mix 228 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: Rama and Marsana when I'm making my Italian sauces because 229 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: they're sweeter. Best tomatoes I've ever had were in Sicily. 230 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: They tasted like, oh really, oh my gosh, I feel 231 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: like they had been injected with tomato flavor. There were 232 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: sweet and a little acidic and just amazing. I think 233 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: it's just the volcanic soil there is just oh, it 234 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: gives everything such an incredible, incredible flavor. Do you know 235 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: that that China is the world's largest tomato producer. Mexico 236 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: is the leading exporter of fresh tomatoes to the United States, 237 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: So if you're an American, you're probably eating a Mexican tomato. 238 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: More on the history of the tomato after the break, 239 00:15:48,760 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: don't go anywhere. Welcome back to hunger Reistory. Chef Hilberto 240 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: Cetina is making waves creating unique flavors at his restaurant 241 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: Holbosch in Los Angeles, California, so much so that in 242 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, Holbosch received the Michelin bib Gormand Award, 243 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: a really big deal in the culinary world. Here he 244 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: is giving us even more history on the tomato, sharing 245 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: a childhood memory eating tamlito, and giving us his thoughts 246 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: on how the tomato is a jack of all trades. 247 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: My name is Hiluerto Sea. I'm the chef and owner 248 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: of Holbosch. Hohlbosch is a Mexican seafood or Marisco stand 249 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: that focuses on just regional coastal Mexican cooking, prepared with 250 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: whatever ingredients are available to us here locally in southern California, 251 00:16:49,120 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: which is a lot and fantastic. Comes from South America, 252 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: you know, the Andies. It's believed somewhere between Bolivia, Colombia, 253 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: Cual or Peru. And just like the chileno, indeed, it 254 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: was brought over to Messo America by via birds. The 255 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 1: original tomato from the Andes is very different from what 256 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: we know of as a tomato today, so it was 257 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: a very small fruit. Through selective breeding, the Aztecs cultivated 258 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: it and turned it into something that was beautiful, big 259 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: and plump, and it was used in braises, and the 260 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: braises were dishes for the for the wealthy, and for 261 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: the royalty and for the politicians. It was not common 262 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 1: food like la tortilla or or tamal, and most popularly 263 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: it was used for something called a pipan or a pepian, 264 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: which is a pumpkin seed or other kind of nut 265 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: based with tomato and dry chiless and they would make 266 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: you know, a nice thick, kind of velvety sauce that 267 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: they would braisee wild game and the rich people would 268 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: have that. So tomato is super important in our kitchen. 269 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: Tomato is versatile more than anything. It is a jack 270 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: of all trades. It does all kinds of things. So 271 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: it can be as simple as a slice of tomato 272 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: as a garnish on something. Think about let's go American 273 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: food here, think about a hamburger, a nice thick slice 274 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: of tomato. Or in my part of Mexico where I'm from, 275 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: which is Yucatan, you put a nice slice of tomat 276 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: on your pinuccio and it just completes it, right, the pinuccio, 277 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: the tomato, the avocado, and that gives you the perfect bite. 278 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,959 Speaker 1: But it's also wonderful for obviously for my disco's right, 279 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,959 Speaker 1: that vegetable freshness, that vegetable crunch of the raw tomato, 280 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: the raw onions, cilantro, cucumbers and avocado to balance out 281 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: the protein heavy ceviche. Right, So a seviche without any vegs, 282 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's basically just sashimi. It's just you know, 283 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 1: raw fish, and you add all these vegetables to it, 284 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: and also, you know Chiles and your tostada, you're really 285 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: creating something with the flavors of the region and making 286 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: something completely different from you know, just raw fish or 287 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: fish cured in lime juice and then in the in 288 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 1: the hot kitchen against super versatile. The base of our 289 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: food in a lot of parts of Mexico, in Yucatan, 290 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: definitely the base of our food is sofritos. We use 291 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: it for soups, we use it as a thickenerer, we 292 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: use it for you know, rices and noodles, and the 293 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: sofrito gives you a nice, deep developed flavor because it's 294 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: you're cooking it in layers. You start with garlic and 295 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: onion with a little bit of oil. You cook that 296 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: down until it's caramelized, so you have that layer of 297 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: flavor there, the caramelization of the onions and the garlic. 298 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: Then you add tomatoes and peppers to that and you 299 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: cook those down and you just start developing this this 300 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: this wonderful bass that is a good starting point for 301 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: wherever you want to go, either be it a soup 302 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: or a sauce or whatever you're going to do with it. 303 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: And classical Mexican dishes like pscalo la vera Cruzana sauce 304 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: is a sofrito and in Yucatana is just basically a 305 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: sofrito that you add calmari ink or octopus ink two 306 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: and you to make that traditional dish so very important 307 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: in our food. And you know, when I think about 308 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: tomato growing up in Yucatan, I immediately go to artamos. 309 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 1: It's just so it's so ingrained in our memory as Mexicans. 310 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: Anytime you would go to the celebration and you're excited 311 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: and you're there and your friends are there, there's always 312 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: a tama with a little just a very simple salce, 313 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: all right. You boil the tomatoes with maybe maybe a 314 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: bay leaf, garlic, some onion, and then you blend it 315 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: up and season it with salt and that's it. And 316 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: it's a really pure, very simple sauce that gives the 317 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: tamal an added layer of flavor. You know, the thamal 318 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: usually does is lacking in acidity, in brightness, and sharpness, 319 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: and that just gives it that. I would say that's 320 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: the number one flavor memory tamal, maybe a little bit 321 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: of cake on the side. I love tomatoes, love It's 322 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: very one of the very few things that I can 323 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 1: actually grow successfully. I grow these little cherry tomatoes and 324 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: in the middle of the summer, like putting, oh, cherry 325 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: tomato in your mouth, wore from the sun. The way 326 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: that it just pops in your mouth. It's like a 327 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: little taste of sunshine. I love it. What about you 328 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: do like tomatoes? I like most tomatoes. It's so funny 329 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: because I was in Wahaka and you'll see on searching 330 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: for Mexico there's an episode of this woman who's like 331 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: the tomato Queen, and we must have had a hundred 332 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: different species tomatoes, and it was she did this tomato 333 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: salad with this I need to get the dressing because 334 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: it was. It was like the simplest, most complex dressing 335 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: that she poured on top. But you know they were purple, 336 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: they were red, they were orange, they were green, they 337 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: were black, they were I mean it was big, small, 338 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, bumpy, smooth. It was. It was her tomato salad. 339 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: And I almost died, like I was like I could 340 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: this could be my last meal on earth. It was 341 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: so good. And then I also love bantot in Spain 342 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: so delicious, yeah, which is like this crushed ripe tomatoes 343 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: with garlic and se salt, and you drown it in 344 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: that Spanish olive oil and then you spread it on 345 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: the bread. It is it is so good and so simple. 346 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: It's so simple, I know that one. So simple. I 347 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: also do like a bushetta, which is similar like chopping 348 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: you know, great tomatoes, rama tomatoes with garlic and salt 349 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: and olive oil and putting it on top of a christini. 350 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: You know, like that too. I love that. I love freshness. 351 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: I don't like tomatoes in a hamburger or a sandwich really, 352 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: I don't know why. Yeah, or not too much in 353 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: a salad either. I don't love them too much in 354 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: a salad either. But yeah, I do love like a 355 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,479 Speaker 1: really good tomato. It's just sometimes, I mean, when I 356 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: was growing up, I feel like the tomatoes were just 357 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: kind of mealy because I think they've just been refrigerated. 358 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 1: But now you could find such really good tomatoes. I 359 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: just really like them, just sliced with olive oil and 360 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: some salt. Yes, exactly, that's what I'm saying. I could 361 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: have a tomato salad. I could eat tomatoes like the 362 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: slice airm like. I could have an heirloom tomato with 363 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: salt and olive oil and just eat it like an apple. 364 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I I can do that, but I don't 365 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: want it in my salad. That weird? Are we weird? 366 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: Maybe a little bit, But that's okay. Do you have 367 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 1: a tomato recipe you love? I have a great gaspacho recipe. 368 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: Ah no, I hate cold soup, so gaspacho falls in. 369 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: Oh God, I have to make you. I need it. 370 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: I think you'll like it. I don't pre bread and it. 371 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 1: It's very simple. It's just fresh tomato, like super ripe tomato. 372 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: Like it's the tomato if it looks like it's about 373 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: to get little bugs growing on it, like super super ripe. 374 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: Those are the tomatoes that are I really really juicy, 375 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: that I wouldn't eat for anything else. Cucumber, green bell, pepper, 376 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: olive oil, a tiny bit of garlic, salt, and a 377 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: little bit of water and sherry, like a really good 378 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: sherry vinegar. I haven't met a gaspot you, I like 379 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: you haven't met mine. It was so funny because I 380 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: thought we were going to settle the debate of it 381 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: is it a fruit or vegetable? But we did not. 382 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: It's both. It's both, but I use it as a 383 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: I used it as a vegetable, but hey, it's a both. 384 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: It's really both. Thank y'all for listening. Don't forget to subscribe. 385 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: Hungry for History is an unbelievable entertainment production in partnership 386 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: with I Heearts, my cool podcast network. For more of 387 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or 388 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.