1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, so Ada Guthrie's mother, Nancy 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: Guthrie missing day nineteen. 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: This as we learned new DNA evidence discovered. 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: What I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us. But Canon amateur 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: really elude the FBI for this wrong. 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 3: And obviously Nancy, he doesn't even know what he's doing 8 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 3: and he's looking at the ground. 9 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: It's just like a lot. 10 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 3: Of wrong in this picture. 11 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 2: What was he doing in that home? 12 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: Seemingly more updates every night during the night news unfolds 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: in the search for Nancy Guthrie. We are learning about 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: new DNA found two weeks after Nancy goes missing, a 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: pinky ring that seems to be easily identifiable. This as 16 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: a search extends into Mexico. So regardless of what authorities 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: are trying to tell us, that is so much more. 18 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: As Google is lending another helping hand with me an 19 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 1: all star panel to make sense of what we're learning 20 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: right now. Is Nancy Guthrie alive? Is Nancy Guthrie dead? 21 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: What is her family going through? As we go to 22 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: air right now, Dave mac joining me Crime Stories investigative 23 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: reporter New DNA what. 24 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: Well, you know what, Nancy. 25 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 4: Earlier this week, we knew that law enforcement investigators had 26 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 4: been back at the house, and we knew they were 27 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 4: looking for something. Well, apparently they were all over the 28 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 4: house looking for biological material and that's what they found. 29 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 4: Investigators found biological material that does not belong to Nancy Guthrie. 30 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 4: They found it inside the home. And again you pointed 31 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 4: it out, weeks after the home had already been searched, 32 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 4: after evidence had been collected, and after the home was 33 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 4: briefly turned back to the family before the investigators shut 34 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 4: it back down. But still two weeks this crime began, 35 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 4: law enforcement finding biological material inside the home that does 36 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 4: not belong to Nancy Guthrie. 37 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: Guys, we're showing you Nancy's home right now. This is 38 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: from our friends at twelve News. There's so many directions 39 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: to go with this bombshell. It's maybe a bombshell to 40 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: only crime watchers, crime aficionados, people like US prosecutors, former 41 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: FBI lawyers, shrinks. 42 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 2: DNA experts. 43 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: You got a big, big problem with the fact that 44 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: this DNA is discovered two weeks later. Let's go ahead, 45 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: let's tackle it head on. Joining me Kelly Hyman, veteran 46 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: trial attorney, analysts podcast star of What's Upon a Crime 47 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: in Hollywood. Kelly, go ahead, I've got I'm ready for you. 48 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: See I know what you're gonna say, and I'm ready 49 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: for you. 50 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 2: Go ahead, attack the DNA. I'm ready. 51 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 5: DNA is key to this case. Why is DNA so important? 52 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 5: Because the DNA can prove who was there? The DNA 53 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 5: can help substantiate who was in the house at this time. 54 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 5: The police went in and then two weeks later find 55 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 5: this DNA all of a sudden, after two weeks it's found. 56 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 5: Now I could see a lot of couch investigators saying 57 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 5: that there's something wrong with that. Why didn't they find 58 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 5: this DNA the first time? Why is it all of 59 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 5: a sudden being found? Nancy? 60 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: Okay, there you go. That's just a tiny, tiny tidbit. Kelly. 61 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: Him is actually being generous and delicate with this attack, 62 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: because let me assure you that when and if this 63 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: goes to trial, there will be a frontal attack on 64 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: this DNA. 65 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: Here's my response. 66 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: So they find the perp, Okay, this DNA has already 67 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: been found, Okay, even though it's late to the party. 68 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: When they find the perp. That's going to be much later. 69 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: So what their mind readers. They now know who the 70 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: purp is, They go get his DNA and they plant it. Yeah, 71 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: straight out to Scott Iiker joining me. Uh oh, Now, 72 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: I'm giving her time to come up with her next attack, 73 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: and believe me. 74 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 2: She will. 75 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: Scott Iiker joined me, digital forensics expert, founding member of 76 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team. They're the ones behind 77 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: the scenes that are getting all the phone numbers and 78 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: phone data and much much more from the area. 79 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 2: That I contend is why they pull. 80 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: Over the first guy that first catch and release. Remember him, 81 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: He was released and I think he was picked up 82 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: because his phone kept pinging in the area. He had 83 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: nothing to do with it. By the way, I hate 84 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: to even keep mentioning his name. He had nothing to 85 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: do with this. But that's what cast is doing and 86 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: much much more. Also, former homicide detective with Norfolk, Virginia 87 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: twelve years now, he is with Precision Cellular Analysis at 88 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: PCA Experts dot com. As much as I am pooh 89 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: pooing her, Kelly Hyman is right, this is going to 90 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: be subjected to a huge attack. I imagine what happened, Scott, 91 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: is that the local Pema County went in a process 92 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: the scene. 93 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 2: The FBI was. 94 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: Finally allowed in, and they reprocessed it and found the DNA. 95 00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 2: What do you think? 96 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 6: I think you're correct. There also the scenarios change. You know, 97 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 6: first of all, it was a missing person, and then 98 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 6: later on we'd get ransom, and now we're looking at 99 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 6: as a kidnapping. So you come in with fresh eyes 100 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 6: or different eyes to look at different things. 101 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 2: Now. 102 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 6: I definitely think that a full processor should have been 103 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 6: done immediately once they realized this was possibly a kidnapping. 104 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 6: But fresh eyes and the FBI with a specialized equipment 105 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 6: and knowledge, that's always good to go back and look again. 106 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 6: As long as they've kept the crime scene, you know, 107 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 6: which it appears that they have not. We could still 108 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 6: go in and look for DNA and hopefully any other 109 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 6: evidence and recover it. 110 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: Okay, well, Scott Iiker, let's let me have you address 111 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: this because you've been with a local police department in Norfolk, Virginia. 112 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: You were a homicide detective there and you were fed 113 00:06:55,000 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: for many many years. Let's give PEMA a time me 114 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: break here. This type of ransom kidnap for ransom is rare. 115 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: I can count them on two hands that we know of. Right, 116 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: I've done a lot of kidnaps. I've investigated and prosecuted kidnaps, 117 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: but not of this nature. 118 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: Right. 119 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: More like carjack, put the victim in the car and 120 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: take off, that's kidnap. More like take the victim to 121 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: a secluded location and raper, that's a kidnap. There are many, 122 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: many genre of kidnaps, right, Kidnap for ransom. 123 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 2: Is a very rare bird. 124 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: Indeed, so not just PEMA, but generally all across the country. 125 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: Expertise in kidnap cases, it's few and far between. 126 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: Would you agree with that? 127 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 6: I definitely agree. And local police departments normally wouldn't deal 128 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 6: with this in the first place. Once becomes a suspected kidnapping, 129 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 6: the federal authorities can come in and help those local 130 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 6: police departments. And we do come in with a lot 131 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 6: of experts in several different aspects. DNA, cellular stuff, BAU 132 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 6: are our behavioral analys this analysis unit. All this can 133 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 6: help those local police departments get a grip on what's 134 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 6: going on here and help them work through the caves. 135 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: And I understand, I disagree, but I understand why they 136 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: are very possessive of the case that they started investigating, 137 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: and they look. When I was stay prosecutor, I like 138 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: the FEDS because I had benefited been a FED before. 139 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: But I also loathed them because they act like they 140 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: know everything because they do, but they really rub it 141 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: in and they bigfoot you. Nobody likes that, but when 142 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: you're trying to do what's best for your case, you. 143 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 2: Let them in. 144 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: So I wonder about how much the delay of bringing 145 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: the FEDS in on this cost the investigation. And now 146 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: we're seeing the first fatality. I'm not saying the DNA 147 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: was planted. That's impossible because we don't know who the 148 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: culprit is yet, right, so you can't. 149 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: Plant the DNA. That said Kelly Hyman is right. 150 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: This DNA is going to be subjected to a strict 151 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: scrutiny and a heated cross examination, and I hope the 152 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: state and the DNA can survive. 153 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: Look at OJ. 154 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: Do somebody really believe the LAPD had the wherewithal to 155 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: go plant the victim's blood on Simpson socks? 156 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 3: No? 157 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: And I guarantee you after all these years, whoever did 158 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: the planting or who knows about the planting would have 159 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: done a blockbuster movie and a book and made millions 160 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: and millions of dollars. Hasn't happened Because that didn't happen. 161 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: Nobody planted this DNA. It be impossible at this juncture 162 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 1: now speaking of DNA so heavily, and I haven't even gotten. 163 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: To the rest of the news yet. 164 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: To Tammy Balor joining us, she is a DNA crime 165 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: scene consultant. Crime Scene investigation and reconstruction is her specialty. 166 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: This is the important part for our purposes tonight. Former 167 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: DNA criminalist at the San Diego Police Department Crime Lab, 168 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: San Diego. Never a lack of business, never a lack 169 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: of DNA experimentation going on in that lab. Tammy Ballard, 170 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Okay, you're the expert. 171 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: I could make a stab at asking you the questions, 172 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: but you tell me your thoughts first. By the way, 173 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: That's how I would always approach an expert when preparing 174 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: for trial. I recognize you know a lot more than 175 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: any of us on this panel about DNA, so instruct us, 176 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: teach us. 177 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 2: Tell me your thoughts on this, Tammy Ballard. 178 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 7: Well, with respect to the finding the DNA two weeks later. 179 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 6: My first thought would be to compare that. 180 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 7: To the DNA from everybody who has entered that resident, 181 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 7: just to rule that out so there's no embarrassment down 182 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 7: the road. I'm not nobody's perfect. I've returned to scenes 183 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 7: and found additional evidence. Everybody wishes they could go to 184 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 7: a scene and process just to make sure they didn't 185 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 7: overlook anything. The two week later thing is a little tough, 186 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 7: but it is what it is, and again, the important 187 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 7: thing is that that's getting. 188 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: Comb I need to follow up on something you just said. 189 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: Did you say that you timmy ballor have gone back. 190 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 2: To scenes to process them again. 191 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 7: If more information has come out and I'm allowed to 192 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 7: go to a scene and check for additional items. I've 193 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 7: also returned to a scene with one of the guru 194 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 7: rus Tom Bevell, who is from bebel Gardner and associates, 195 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 7: and walked through my double homicide with him and learned 196 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 7: from him about some additional stains that I could have collected. 197 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 7: So you know, you got to stay humble, stay open. 198 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 7: Everybody there should be as a team and just trying 199 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 7: to do the right thing and find Nancy Guthrie on 200 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 7: the perpetrator. 201 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 2: Okay, that sentiment is shared by everyone on the panel. 202 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 2: What do you mean you went back with. 203 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: Bevel and he pointed out additional things that you should 204 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: have tested, and then that point, from that point on, 205 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: you did that. 206 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 2: What additional things did he has struck for you to test? 207 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 7: Well, if we're speaking technically, I had an interesting injury 208 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 7: on one of my victims in the double homicide, and 209 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 7: there was a blood stained pattern adjacent to where his 210 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:52,719 Speaker 7: head had been. And I learned from Tom Bevell that 211 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 7: that that actually wasn't an additional shot fired that shared 212 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 7: with it struck the victim, so it was changed my 213 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 7: number of shots fired. It made me look so much 214 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 7: closer at bloodstained. 215 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 2: Patterns crime stories with Nancy Grace. Timmy, you said that 216 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 2: the bullet cheared. What do you mean by that? 217 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 7: One of the bullets struck my victim in the forehead, 218 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 7: and actually some of the bullet fragments entered into his 219 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 7: head and some of them sheered off and went directly 220 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 7: perpendicular to the victim's head through the door. So tiny, 221 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 7: tiny circular stains that I had overlooked after being in 222 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 7: a crime scene for probably twenty four hours. That was 223 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 7: something that I had overlooked, and it was great to 224 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 7: have somebody who is an absolute legend in the field 225 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 7: be able to walk through my scene with me and 226 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 7: point that out. 227 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 5: So that was very useful. 228 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: Wow, that's a great rendition. Okay, that would support going 229 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: back to the scene. And you're right, everyone that has 230 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: processed the scene has to now be tested for DNA. 231 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: They have to give their DNA to prove it's not 232 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: their DNA that's been found. And we see that a 233 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: lot in when there are claims of contamination across contamination, like. 234 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 2: Within the lab somebody touched the specimen and. 235 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: Got their DNA, and it's a horrible, horrible detour for the. 236 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 2: State to have to make when presenting a case. 237 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: Right up front you have to say, yeah, we screwed 238 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: up the DNA, but yet I want you to believe 239 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: the DNA. 240 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 2: So that's a problem. But what the prize is is 241 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 2: is finding Nancy Guthrie, and that is just a sideshow. 242 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 2: We'll deal with that if and when we ever get 243 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 2: to trial. 244 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: So what type of DNA Tammy Ballard do you believe 245 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: was found? Obviously by the Feds by two weeks and 246 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: Dave mac anybody on the panel jump in if I'm wrong. 247 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: After about two weeks, I'm pretty sure the Feds were 248 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: already in. 249 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 7: There was a. 250 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: Standoff for a while where the locals did not want 251 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: them in. They're refusing to admit that it's true they 252 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: did get in, so I'm imagining it's them that went back. 253 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: So what type of DNA do you believe they found 254 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: they didn't see the first time. 255 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 7: I can only imagine that it was going to be 256 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 7: an item of evidence that is an outlier, not necessarily 257 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 7: a bloodstain or any touch DNA from something that is 258 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 7: stationary in the home I'm expecting. I would imagine that 259 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 7: it's going to be some sort of article from something 260 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 7: that is something that you can remove from that home. 261 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: So not a table, not a sofa. 262 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 7: It's going to be in some sort of article of 263 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 7: clothing or a tool or something that is going to 264 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 7: be that outlier where there will the DNA on that item. 265 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: Again, joining us an all star panel trying to make 266 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: sense of everything you know to doctor Bethany Marshall, joining us, 267 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker. 268 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 2: You can see her on Peacock and find her. 269 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: At Doctor Bethany Marshall dot com Doctor Bethany, I know 270 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: that this is a step forward, but sometimes it must 271 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: feel for the family that it's one step forward, two 272 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: steps back. 273 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 3: You don't, Nancy, of course, it feels that way to them, 274 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 3: because what's horrible for the family is the unknown. They 275 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 3: have no idea if they're mother is dead or alive. 276 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 3: They don't know how she's been treated. And Nancy, when 277 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 3: we face the unknown, we project into it our worst 278 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 3: possible fears. That's how we evolved as a BCS biologically, 279 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 3: is we evolve to be suspicious of the unknown so 280 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 3: we could keep ourselves safe. But that's what causes anxiety, 281 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 3: right when we don't know how a situation is going 282 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 3: to turn out. So in this case with the mother, 283 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 3: they're going to be wondering like is she cold? Is 284 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 3: she being fed? What about her medications? How has she 285 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 3: been treated by the perpetrator? Are they kind to her? 286 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 3: Are they cruel to her? Has she passed? If so, 287 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 3: under what circumstances? Was there somebody there to hold her hand? 288 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 3: I mean, this is this is agonizing for the family. 289 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 2: They need to know. 290 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 3: They need all these details so that they can sleep, 291 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 3: so that they can think so that they can move 292 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 3: on with their lives. They need their mother back, whether 293 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 3: she's deceased or alive, Nancy, they need to know what's 294 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 3: happened to her. 295 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 2: You know, doctor Bethany Marshall. 296 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: When I learned there was new DNA, well, let me 297 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: rephrase newly discovered DNA. I was elated, but then I 298 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: was immediately concerned and worried about how the DNA was 299 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: going to be attacked and how this would affect the family. 300 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: They'll be happy at first, but then they'll start questioning 301 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: the entire investigation. 302 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: Why wasn't it found to start with? It could be 303 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 2: something as simple Tammy Ballard is going back in to 304 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 2: do I don't know. 305 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: Let's just go with a touch DNA analysis, redoing the 306 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: home with. 307 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,719 Speaker 2: An alternate light source to find DNA. 308 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: After they realized the purp had been touching with the 309 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: gloves on, touching that bite light over and over and over, 310 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: touching the wholester over and over and over. 311 00:18:58,600 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 2: It that's just what we saw. 312 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,959 Speaker 1: What else did we not see? For Pete's sake, did 313 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 1: he blow his nose? I don't know, but maybe after 314 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: they evaluated that doorcam video, they got an idea and 315 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: went back in it could be as innocent and easily 316 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: explainable as that, right. 317 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 7: Correct, They definitely went back into reprocess and again hopefully 318 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 7: with a fresh set of eyes and more of a 319 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 7: diverse approach so that they can additional evidence can be obtained. 320 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 7: So again, I can only speculate, but there's always the 321 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 7: chance that something fell off of the perpetrator with a struggle. 322 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 7: So maybe that was something that got overlooked. It could 323 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 7: have been underneath the side of a couch, it could 324 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 7: have been something that just kicked when everybody in the 325 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 7: home and they realize that it's there. So it's something 326 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 7: to consider. And my thought would be, worry about getting 327 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 7: DNA from that item, now, worry about excluding other people 328 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 7: from it that have been in the house for the 329 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 7: investigation and the family members, and then worry about the 330 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 7: downstream process later. 331 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 2: You're right. You're right, guys. 332 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: The reason we're spending so much time on the newly 333 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: discovered DNA is because it could crack the case wide open. 334 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 2: There's not just CODIS, the National DNA data Bank. 335 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: There is also the Arizona Databank that allows much more diverse, 336 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,479 Speaker 1: let me say euphemistically, DNA profiles in there. You can 337 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: have DNA from crime scenes that are unsolved, you can 338 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: have DNA from just suspects that have not been convicted. 339 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 2: You can have all sorts of. 340 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: DNA in the Arizona Data Bank that is not allowed 341 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: due to strict regulation of the National CODIS Data Bank. 342 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: Going with this, it's a much more diverse array of 343 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: DNA and there's over a half a million DNA profiles 344 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: in the Arizona Databank. Then you've got Interpols DNA Databank. 345 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: You even have a Iphamilia, which is out of Mexico 346 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: and other jurisdictions. Now, the Mexican Data Bank deals mostly 347 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: with identifying missing people, dead bodies, victims that have not 348 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: been identified. But still there's DNA in there to be mined. 349 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: So we're just getting started with the whole DNA process. 350 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: And speaking of Mexico, straight out to Dave Mack from 351 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: Crime Stories, Dave mac, we're learning regardless of what Nanos 352 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: keeps trying to stuff down our throat. 353 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 2: I'm not swallowing. 354 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: Number one, they are looking in Mexico and it's not 355 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: just them, Isn't it true? The Guthrie family has reached 356 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: out to a group of moms in Mexico that search 357 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: for missing people. 358 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 4: Tell me, the searching mothers of Sonora. That's who the 359 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 4: Guthrie family has reached out to. This group of women 360 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 4: actually search for missing people in Sonora. Now, the reason 361 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 4: this is important, Nancy, is there is No Gallas Arizona 362 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 4: and No Gallas Sonora, Mexico, just across the border. We're 363 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 4: talking sixty miles south of Tucson. You go through No 364 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 4: Gallas Arizona to No Gallas Mexico, and the searching mothers 365 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 4: of Sonora have been contacted by the Guthrie family to 366 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 4: try and help find Nancy Guthrie. It is more than 367 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 4: just possible, Nancy, that Nancy Guthrie could have been taken 368 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 4: across the border right there at No Gallas. 369 00:22:53,840 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: Okay, I am so ill right now, Dave MATC scott Iker. 370 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: The family is having to reach out to Mexico. What 371 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: Why is the family having to do the work of 372 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: the sheriff. Of course they should reach out to Mexico. 373 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: Do I believe she's in Mexico? Don't know, could be 374 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: because it's so close. But why is the family, why 375 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: is Savannah Guthrie at her siblings at a time like this, 376 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: having to do the job of law enforcement help me out. 377 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 2: Iker. 378 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 6: It is kind of strange that their family is doing 379 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 6: the reaching out. You got to remember, I believe the 380 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 6: FBI and maybe the Sheriff's office is reaching out to 381 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 6: Mexico but not telling us about it. They should be 382 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 6: doing that in the first place, because Tucson is only 383 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 6: sixty miles from the border. But these nonprofit situations, hey, 384 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 6: you know, why not use anything that we can. And 385 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 6: if the Guthrie family thinks, hey, these mom group and 386 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 6: just across the work and help at all, let's why 387 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 6: not try that too. 388 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 8: I wanted to come on and it's been two weeks 389 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 8: since our mom was taken, and I just wanted to 390 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 8: come on and say that we still have hope and 391 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 8: we still believe. 392 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 2: You can buy a burner phone under any name, not 393 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 2: your own. 394 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 6: You don't have to put a name on it because 395 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 6: you've already paid the phone company. What they want is their. 396 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: Money, So you may never know if it were for 397 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: the video who bought the Burner phone used outside Nancy 398 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: Guthrie's home at the time she was kidnap. The FEDS 399 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: and the locals tracking down every single tip all this 400 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: while eighty four year old Nancy Guthrie is missing. You know, 401 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about reaching out to Mexico and finding out 402 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: whether Nancy Guthrie was taken across the border, which is 403 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 1: entirely possible since it is so close to Nancy Guthrie's home. 404 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 2: What about it, Dave mac Not only. 405 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 4: Very close Nancy, but the crossing point at No Gallas 406 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 4: for exact example, No Gallas in Sonora, Mexico. So we've 407 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 4: got a quick shot. You realize that the glove that 408 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 4: was tossed out of a vehicle, we don't know if 409 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 4: it's a glove that we're looking at right there, but 410 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 4: it was tossed out on a road heading towards Interstate nineteen. 411 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 4: Interstate nineteen runs from near Nancy Guthrie's home straight to 412 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 4: No Gallas and crossing the border from the United States 413 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 4: into Mexico far different than coming the other way. Only 414 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 4: one in twenty five or so vehicles even gets checked 415 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 4: going across the border from the United States in New 416 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 4: Mexico at any time. Not that difficult. Crossing at night 417 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 4: simple and getting a woman out of the United States 418 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 4: in New Mexico be a breeze, So looking into Gallas 419 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 4: is not only smart at this point, I cannot believe 420 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 4: they're not feed on the ground. 421 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: Looking to doctor Bethany Marshall, you have familiarity with the 422 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: searching mothers of Sonora. 423 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 2: What can you tell me I do. 424 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 3: Because I've heard them interviewed Nancy. These women are fierce. 425 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 3: They are sick and tired of this culture of kidnap okay, 426 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 3: and they have different tools at their disposal. They may 427 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 3: not have all the DNA testing and all of that, 428 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 3: but they have something very powerful. They have connections. They 429 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 3: know people, They know people who know people, and they have, 430 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 3: many of them their own husbands and sons who have 431 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 3: been affected. So they are on the search. They are 432 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 3: on the hunt, and they are people to be reckoned with. 433 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 3: And I think it's very smart that the family reached 434 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 3: out to. 435 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 2: Them theive mac. 436 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: Another issue you with extending research into Mexico is that 437 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: Mexican authorities, and we've seen this with Americans that go 438 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: missing there and fall to violence there, don't go to 439 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: Mexico on a vacation. 440 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 2: Just listen to me, all right. 441 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: They have a very different standard of investigation than we 442 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: do in the US. 443 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 4: They do Nancy and you know, it's just a different culture. 444 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 4: And when we have actually been involved in investigations in Mexico, 445 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 4: and I say we being the United States of America, 446 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 4: oftentimes we run up against local authorities who are not 447 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 4: necessarily on the up and up as we would expect. 448 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 4: So a lot of times in Mexico when we're dealing 449 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 4: even with law enforcement, Nancy, we don't know who's the 450 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 4: real law enforcement and who's really in charge. This is 451 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 4: a problem that Mexico has a college for years that 452 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 4: they have a problem in their own policing. So that's 453 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,479 Speaker 4: the problem we run up against. 454 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 8: To whoever has her or knows where she is, that 455 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:25,479 Speaker 8: it's never too late, and you're not lost or alone, 456 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,719 Speaker 8: and it is never too late to do the right thing. 457 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 8: And we are here. We believe, and we believe in 458 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 8: the essential goodness of every human being, and it's never 459 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 8: too late. On behalf of our family. We want to 460 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 8: thank all of you for the prayers for our beloved 461 00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 8: mom f Fancy. We feel then, and we continue to 462 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 8: believe that she feels them too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal, 463 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 8: fiercely loving woman of goodness and light. She's funny, spunky, 464 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 8: and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd 465 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 8: around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun 466 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 8: and adventure. She is a devoted friend. She is full 467 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 8: of kindness and knowledge. 468 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 4: Talk to her and. 469 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 2: You'll see. 470 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 6: The light is missing from our lives. 471 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 8: Nancy is our mother. 472 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 6: We are her children. She is our beacon. 473 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 8: She holds fast to joy and end all of life's circumstances, 474 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 8: she chooses joy day after day. 475 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: There you see the Guthrie siblings begging for the return 476 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: of their mother, Nancy Guthrie. The investigation goes on now, 477 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: extending into Mexico. We learn hopefully the Mexican I Familia 478 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: database will be used for DNA as well as international databases. Guys, 479 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: we also are learning about polygraphs that went down into 480 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: the evening last night. 481 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 2: Dave mac what about it? 482 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 4: Well, as normally a case develops with everybody involved. Now 483 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 4: you've got workers all around the house that are being 484 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 4: investigated because they should. Anyone with access to the home 485 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 4: has been brought in, and we're talking about people even 486 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 4: including the pool workers that came by the other day 487 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 4: to clean the pool. Nancy Guthrie doesn't normally have a 488 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 4: pool cleaning service. The family called it out to make 489 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 4: sure that it was being kept up. But you know what, Nancy, 490 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 4: everybody with access to that home, everybody with access to 491 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 4: Nancy Guthrie, probably people at church as well as everywhere else, 492 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,959 Speaker 4: is being polygraphed to find out everything law enforcement can 493 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 4: at this point. And as you mentioned early on, somebody 494 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 4: rejecting a polygraph is going to become a huge suspect. 495 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: Dave mac did you actually say that the church congregates 496 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: are being polygraphed or they should be polygraphed. 497 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 4: Should be polygraphed? I miss both, but everybody should be nan. 498 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 2: Actually I agree with you. 499 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: I'm not impugning them or suggesting ron doing on their part, 500 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: but everyone connected to Nancy Guthrie should volunteer for a 501 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: polygraph done. 502 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 2: What's the problem. 503 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: So the reason I'm saying that Kelly Hyman is here's 504 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: the goal. Standard Mark class. When his daughter Polly went missing, 505 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: she was abducted in a sleepover party of her and 506 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: her little friends at her mom's home. Well, they came 507 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: bamming on his door and he went, fine, take my fingerprints, 508 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: do whatever you want. Search my place, search my car, 509 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: search my office, I'll do a poly right now, so 510 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: you can get past me and find my daughter. So 511 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: I don't see a problem with everybody connected to Nancy 512 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: Guthrie getting a polygraph. 513 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:28,719 Speaker 6: Now. 514 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: Of course, they are not allowed in a criminal trial 515 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: unless stipulated. 516 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 2: Ahead of time. We all know that, all the legal 517 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 2: eagles know that. 518 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: But I have used polygraphs as an investigative tool in 519 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: the past. 520 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 5: No stone should gonna go unturn Nancy in this case, 521 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 5: and so the polygraphs should be done as well. And 522 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 5: you're right, bring up a really good point. If there's 523 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 5: nothing to hide, if there's transparency, then it's really important 524 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 5: for people to give polygraphs. It's really important for people 525 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 5: to give up their DNA on which the family has 526 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 5: given their DNA and been ruled out as a suspect. 527 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 5: But going back to the DNA, like, it's really important 528 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 5: that this kind of stuff is key to the case. 529 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 5: Why the DNA is so important because it can help 530 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 5: substantiate who is there and DNA can be used in 531 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 5: the court of law. Of course, now the DNA that 532 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 5: was found two weeks later could potentially be challenged, But 533 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 5: it's really important to look at. 534 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 7: What is available. 535 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 5: What is available in regards to resources that are out there, 536 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 5: whether it's using the FBI database or potentially also looking 537 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 5: at genetic databases as well, like something like twenty three 538 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 5: in ME in which people can opt out of their 539 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 5: information and so that that can't be discovered. However, with 540 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 5: a court of law, potentially can get a warrant out 541 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 5: there to leave at DNA as well. 542 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 2: Crime stores. 543 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:14,760 Speaker 1: With Nancy Grace, polygraph's going down at the Pema Sheriff's office. 544 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: No revelation as of right now as to who is 545 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: being polygraphed. This as a reality show has reared its 546 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: ugly head, Dave mac a reality show Nancy. 547 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 4: The show is called Desert Law. It encompasses the Pima 548 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 4: County Sheriff's Department, which is one of the largest in 549 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 4: the country. And believe it or not, this is an 550 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 4: embedded elite group of sheriff's deputies that are being followed 551 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 4: by cameras on a daily basis. And the show just premiered. 552 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 4: And we're talking about a program on A and E 553 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 4: that just premiered, as this is exploding all over the country. 554 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,240 Speaker 4: And by the way, the sheriff Nanos is not particularly 555 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 4: featured on the program yet but he is consulting and 556 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 4: directing where to head with different investigations and helping the 557 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 4: actual show behind the scenes. So yes, Desert Law Live 558 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 4: from p McGannon. 559 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 2: To doctor Bethany Marshall joining us psychoanalyst. The Sheriff's office. 560 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: In the Nancy Guthrie case has its own reality show. 561 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: Now apparently Nanos has not appeared on camera yet, but 562 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: coordinates with the production company behind the scenes. 563 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know, just gut reaction. Not a good look, thoughts. 564 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 2: It's not a good look you, Nancy. 565 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 3: I've been on so many reality shows. They take hours 566 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 3: and hours. 567 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 2: When you watch five. 568 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 3: Minutes on a reality TV show, sometimes those people that 569 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 3: the cast members have been filmed for three or four 570 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 3: days to get that five minutes. So we're worried about 571 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 3: not enough resources on the ground there in that particular jurisdiction, 572 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 3: but all those resources are being pulled away towards a 573 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 3: TV show. It's really diluting the resources that they need 574 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 3: to find Nancy Guthrie. That was my gut reaction to this. 575 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious, Kelly, what do you think about this? 576 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: I don't know if it would hurt a trial or not. 577 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 2: Maybe, how. 578 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 5: Well, when you look at it from a legal perspective 579 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 5: and you think about the trial that you have to 580 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 5: look at the prosecution that brings the case. They have 581 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 5: to prove every element of the crime. They have to 582 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 5: prove every element. So when you look at that, you're 583 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 5: only going to be looking at what exactly the charges are, 584 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 5: whether it's kidnapping, and what are the elements to prove 585 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 5: those crimes. Because when the juries sit, as you know, Nancy, 586 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 5: they're not supposed to look at outside evidence. They're only 587 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 5: supposed to look at evidence that is going to affect 588 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 5: the case and that is going to help substantiate the 589 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 5: case as well. 590 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 2: And so when the. 591 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 5: Juries look at that, they're just going to look at 592 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 5: the charges and also what the prosecution to prove up 593 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 5: the case. 594 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 1: You know, there's another issue. Nanos is now hosting a 595 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: number of cherry picked reporters his teacher's pets in his 596 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: office for one on one interviews. His office is professionally 597 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: lit for TV what happened to good old fashioned pressers? 598 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: Where everybody shows up and asks the hard questions what 599 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: about it? 600 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:33,320 Speaker 6: Scott Iiker, Well, if you're going to do cherry picking 601 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 6: of pressman reporters. You've got the control of the interview, 602 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 6: and it's not going to look crazy like it does 603 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 6: in a regular press conference. So I think if he 604 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 6: wants to limit his exposure and try to maintain the 605 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 6: integrity of the case, maybe it's a good idea to 606 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 6: you know, do one on ones instead of you know, 607 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 6: getting beat up by you know, forty different reporters. 608 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: Investigative reporter, mac can I confirm with you that today 609 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: is February nineteen. 610 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 4: Yes, it is February nineteen, twenty twenty six. 611 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: I'm very surprised it took you that long to answer, 612 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: But that said to doctor Bethany Marshall, the last presser 613 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: was February five, Bethany, February five. 614 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 2: Nancy. 615 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 3: I noticed that as well, and I started watching some 616 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 3: of the individual interviews that he gave, and he's choosing 617 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 3: reporters from very big networks like maybe NewsNation or CNN, 618 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 3: and that leaves out that weeds out the reporters from 619 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 3: smaller outlets that really might ask incisive questions, just like 620 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,879 Speaker 3: the reality TV show, Nancy. This is diluting his time, 621 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 3: diluting his resources. He could take one hour doing a presser, 622 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 3: but instead hours and hours individually with reporters. This is 623 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 3: time he could spend finding Nancy Guthrie. 624 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: Scott Iiker before we continue down the trail of finger 625 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: pointing at a time when Nancy Guthrie is still missing. 626 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,320 Speaker 1: What about the possibility that has been brought up tracking 627 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: vehicles in the area through GPS through their own GPS trackers? 628 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: How would that even work? And you have to know 629 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: which car it was in order to get into their 630 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 1: NAV system. 631 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 6: Well, there are several different aspects. I mean, we know 632 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,839 Speaker 6: that some cars, some of the newer cars have cell 633 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,959 Speaker 6: phones in them. We're doing that with the cast team. 634 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 6: We also know that a lot of companies put GPS 635 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:39,320 Speaker 6: trackers on their vehicles. Rental car companies put GPS trackers 636 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 6: on their vehicles, so we could go to them and 637 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 6: pull and see what if any of their vehicles were 638 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 6: in the area of Missus Guthrie's residents around the time 639 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,240 Speaker 6: she went missing. So at another avenue to track vehicles 640 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 6: in and out of the area. 641 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,880 Speaker 2: Isn't it true? Of course you got to get it 642 00:39:58,040 --> 00:39:58,720 Speaker 2: through subpoena. 643 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: They won't just hand it over silver platter that for instance, 644 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: serious XM and other infotainments can be traced in that area. 645 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,919 Speaker 2: Isn't that true? Just a thought. 646 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 6: Serious XM is a satellite music entertainment aspect or subscription. 647 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 6: They don't track your locations, but on Star does something 648 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 6: like on store when you hit the button asks for help, 649 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 6: they can track your location. But the NAP systems in 650 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,919 Speaker 6: all the vehicles, like if they recover a vehicle from 651 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 6: this case, or they think if you remember the range 652 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 6: River that they recovered or took from those individuals that 653 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 6: they stopped, They're going to pull a NAP system out 654 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 6: of that and see if that vehicle was backed in 655 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 6: the area of Nancy Grethury's residents at the time she 656 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:50,760 Speaker 6: went missing. 657 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,720 Speaker 2: Well, I agree and disagree with you, Scott Iiker. 658 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: Standard series XM satellite radio only receives signals and cannot 659 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,959 Speaker 1: track a You're right, However, vehicles with active Serious XM 660 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: connected vehicle services like Guardian, You Connect, We've Got you 661 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: Connect can be tracked as these use GPS and sell 662 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 1: networks to provide location data. To track, you've got to 663 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: have an active subscription. It's active subscription based telematics. Now 664 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 1: explain to everyone in regular people talk what that means. 665 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 6: Connective vehicles. That's the term there that makes them that 666 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 6: it connects at all. Actually is that if it has 667 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 6: a cell phone in it, or if it has a 668 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,319 Speaker 6: GPS device in it, we can track that vehicle. That's 669 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,839 Speaker 6: what on Star does when you need help. 670 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, a case that we investigated, 671 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 1: the Debbie Collier death, her car, the location of her 672 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: vehicle and ultimately her dead body was found because of 673 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: our serious XM sell service. They picked up that Wi 674 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: Fi I guess you would call it trail and they 675 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: found DeBie Collier. That's one of the ways they found her. 676 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 1: There's one way versus two way. Their standard satellite radio 677 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,800 Speaker 1: that's one way received only that does not transmit a 678 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: car's location. Then you've got the connected services. Now that's 679 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: possible through series XM Guardian. It's very common in a Chrysler, 680 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:38,320 Speaker 1: a Dodge. 681 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 2: A Jeep, a RAM. 682 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:48,800 Speaker 1: These services use GPS an lt SELL networks, not satellite 683 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 1: radio signals themselves. You could maybe get a beat on 684 00:42:55,120 --> 00:43:00,399 Speaker 1: stolen vehicle assistance if you have an active subscription. Now, 685 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,760 Speaker 1: all of these systems can be disabled, but that doesn't 686 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: mean it's not worth a try. Guys, Polygraphs new DNA 687 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: searches now extending into Mexico. Are the FEDS taking over 688 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,960 Speaker 1: the case from Pima County. 689 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 2: All that brewing is a search for Nancy. Guthrie goes on. 690 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about this case, 691 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 1: please dial one eight hundred two two five five three 692 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,879 Speaker 1: two four, or if you wish to remain anonymous five 693 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: two zero eight eight two seven four six three. There 694 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:46,840 Speaker 1: is a two hundred thousand plus dollar reward. We remember 695 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: American hero Deputy Sheriff Dan Glaize, Russ County Sheriff's Wisconsin, 696 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,800 Speaker 1: shot and killed in the line of duty, leaving behind 697 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:02,760 Speaker 1: a wife now widow, Sarah, and three children without a father. 698 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:08,399 Speaker 1: American hero Deputy Sheriff Dan Glaze Nancy Grace signing off 699 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: goodbye friend.