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Speaker 1: What's sad my all of you are about to be

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Speaker 1: I'm Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastards podcast, Bad

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Speaker 1: People tell you all about him. My guest today, Mr

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Speaker 1: Jason Petty, a k A prop man. Drop the government

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Speaker 1: name and let me go. I'm mile here. That's how

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Speaker 1: much I care about you. There are two people in

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Speaker 1: the world that call me Jason. It's my wife and

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Speaker 1: a lady named Jen hat Maker. They're only two people

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Speaker 1: on earth that called me Jason. Robert and now Rob Jason.

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Speaker 1: We can bleep your your legal name's all good. That

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Speaker 1: worry about ice CAD, all that stuff has been expunged.

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Speaker 1: Those those are mine. I was a miner. So you

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Speaker 1: can't talk about the Oh that is appropriate for today's topic,

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Speaker 1: because today we're talking about a couple of aspects of

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Speaker 1: the juvenile justice system that I think we're all gonna

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Speaker 1: find fun. Oh no, real, real good time. I don't

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Speaker 1: need okay, go ahead, no, no, no, I mean, how

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Speaker 1: do you how do you feel about kids? You know, well,

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Speaker 1: I love kids. I got two of them. I love

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Speaker 1: the juvenile system. I've been a part of it. Um, Okay,

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Speaker 1: it works pretty well. Yes. So so there's a number

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Speaker 1: of connections with this. My father was an s d

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Speaker 1: p O two for California, which is a deputy probation

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Speaker 1: officer for the juvenile system in Los Angeles. He retired

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Speaker 1: from it, you know, because it's like, like we said before,

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Speaker 1: can't change system from withinside. It just doesn't work. So

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Speaker 1: like so he kind of bailed out, but he at

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Speaker 1: least was like, at least I could be an advocate

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Speaker 1: for for the time that I'm there and when. Some

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Speaker 1: of y'all may know that I used to I was

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Speaker 1: a teacher before I was doing music and poetry full time,

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Speaker 1: and I started off at My first teaching job was

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Speaker 1: as central what was a substitute position, but it was

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Speaker 1: with all of the juvenile halls in California, so East

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Speaker 1: like Correctional Facility Camp, Rocky Camp, half a Ball. So

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Speaker 1: my first teaching experience was all in the juvenile juvenile systems.

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Speaker 1: So like, I'm very connected to the store you're about

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Speaker 1: to talk right now, and again I was in the system. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's there's an anthropological theory I'm kind of fond of,

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Speaker 1: which is the the idea that like essentially all civilization

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Speaker 1: and by that I don't mean necessarily like skyscrapers and

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Speaker 1: electric lights, which is the idea of like human beings

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Speaker 1: organizing in groups to do things started because of the

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Speaker 1: need to raise kids, because like it is evolutionarily advantageous

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Speaker 1: to have a big brain that allows you to make tools. Um,

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Speaker 1: but at a certain point, our brain's got so big

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Speaker 1: that you can't put you can't like just come out

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Speaker 1: with a brain that big, we're gonna kill the person

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Speaker 1: giving birth to you, right, Like, you can only give

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Speaker 1: birth to a brain so big. So we we start

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Speaker 1: and our kids started coming out younger and younger and

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Speaker 1: less and less capable of doing anything right, Like you

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Speaker 1: you're if you're there, like the birthing of like a

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Speaker 1: calf or a baby, their fine or like a dog.

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Speaker 1: Yeah they could just like they're up and they're doing

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Speaker 1: three minutes. Yeah, yeah, pretty fucking quick in most cases.

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Speaker 1: And like by the time a human baby have like

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Speaker 1: a puppy and a baby at the same time, by

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Speaker 1: the time that human baby can like kind of wattle,

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Speaker 1: that dog will more or less be able to like

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Speaker 1: hunt the dogs find yes, yeah, the dogs ready for

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Speaker 1: the world. There's a whole premise in in my My

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Speaker 1: My book Terra form where I talk about the development

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Speaker 1: of culture, and it's because we're the only species that

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Speaker 1: aren't born with everything we need to survive. We had

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Speaker 1: to create language, we had to create you know, covers

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Speaker 1: and stuff like exactly what that thing is. And one

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Speaker 1: of the only things you, like you write in my

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Speaker 1: z own right now, one of the only things that

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Speaker 1: is universal in human civilization across every country and time,

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Speaker 1: was the idea of protecting our children, that human thing

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Speaker 1: in the world. Like, I don't have kids, I don't

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Speaker 1: ever want to have kids, but I still think I'm

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Speaker 1: just kidding, Like it's every adult's fucking responsibility if there's

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Speaker 1: if you can protect a child, to protect the child,

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Speaker 1: like period period like, and that's why the people were

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Speaker 1: talking about today are such fucking nightmares. They are human

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Speaker 1: humans who have like fundamentally decided. But what if we

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Speaker 1: did the opposite bro for like money, racism and to

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Speaker 1: get elected. I wish I could see on face right now, because,

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Speaker 1: like I said, we got two different stories this week.

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Speaker 1: For our first story today, proply what have you heard

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Speaker 1: about the kids for cash scandal? I was also a

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Speaker 1: high school teacher, so yes, I've heard of this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not great, so too. Before we get into this,

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Speaker 1: I think we need to talk a little bit about, um,

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Speaker 1: some relevant background. So, violent crime in the United States

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Speaker 1: almost quadrupled between nineteen sixty and nine by serious crimes,

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Speaker 1: including including homicide. We're all falling, so crime is by

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Speaker 1: starting to drop again. Um but right at around the

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Speaker 1: time crime was beginning its fall. That continued up until

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Speaker 1: fairly recently, uh, twenty four hour news in the Internet

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Speaker 1: really started to get going, and stories about violent crime

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Speaker 1: and crimes directed against particularly white suburban people were hugely popular.

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Speaker 1: You can make a lot of money in the new

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Speaker 1: you know, right, yeah, and crimes committed by teenagers against

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Speaker 1: particularly that demographic or like the easiest way to get

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Speaker 1: fucking eyeballs on screen. Yes, I know. Yeah. I am

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Speaker 1: a child of war on drugs, gang in junctions. I

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Speaker 1: am a child of all this. Y yeah. Now. The

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Speaker 1: problem was discussed through obviously, uh, the news and and

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Speaker 1: and fictional media. It was also something that academics talked about.

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Speaker 1: In November of nineteen, a political scientist named John delu

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Speaker 1: Leo Jr. Wrote an article for The Weekly Standard, which

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Speaker 1: is a right wing opinion magazine, titled The Coming of

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Speaker 1: the Super predators. This art was based. Yeah, this person

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Speaker 1: ruined my childhood. Yeah, ruin because of the work he's

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Speaker 1: about to talk about. Go ahead, Yeah, he he dropped

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Speaker 1: a bomb on I don't know, a few million kids

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Speaker 1: childhoods conservatively. Um. The article that he wrote was based

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Speaker 1: primarily on data from boys in Philadelphia that showed that

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Speaker 1: six percent of of young like of minor male male

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Speaker 1: miners in Philadelphia accounted for more than half of the

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Speaker 1: serious crimes committed by male children in that city. UM. Now,

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Speaker 1: as you might have guessed number one, there's a number

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Speaker 1: of reasons for this. This is just Philadelphia. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot going on here. It's maybe not the best thing

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Speaker 1: to draw broad sweeping societal conclusions from, especially in a vacuum. Um. And,

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Speaker 1: as you probably won't be surprised to hear, the article

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Speaker 1: that Delileo wrote was filled with very uncomfortable race related

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Speaker 1: lines like this paragraph. While the trouble will be greatest

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Speaker 1: in black inner city neighborhoods, other places are also certain

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Speaker 1: to have burgeoning youth crime problems that will spill over

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Speaker 1: into upscale central city districts, entering suburbs, and even the

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Speaker 1: rural heartland. To underscore, this point. Abraham Recount was one

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Speaker 1: of the people who's talking to. Recounted a recent town

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Speaker 1: hall meeting in a white working class section of the

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Speaker 1: city that has fallen on hard times. They were coming

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Speaker 1: afraid of their own children. There were some big beefy

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Speaker 1: guys there too, and they're asking me what am I

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Speaker 1: going to do to control their children. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: going there, including the idea that like, well, crime in

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Speaker 1: the inner city is obviously going to happen. It's a

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Speaker 1: problem because it might spill over into upscale areas and

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Speaker 1: in the suburbs. Right like that, there's so much happening here.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to like because I'm so like even the

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Speaker 1: time frame, like like I I'm revella my age here,

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Speaker 1: but I'm at high school when this is happening. So

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Speaker 1: like I am who he's talking about, you know, inner

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Speaker 1: city black male, you know what I'm saying. So I'm

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Speaker 1: like and just little that stuff would drop and it's

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Speaker 1: like you see people like I'm walking home from school,

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Speaker 1: then my pe clothes no less, you know, because I

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Speaker 1: got I got shipped out to a suburbian high school,

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Speaker 1: you know, so like it wasn't my I was long

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Speaker 1: story short joint custody, YadA YadA. Right, So I went

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Speaker 1: to the nicer high school. So walking home, I'm just

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Speaker 1: like stupid headphones on, listening to Wu Tang and like

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Speaker 1: watching the lady Clutcher person cross the street and just

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Speaker 1: about like you're nervous about situ And I'm like, dude, like,

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Speaker 1: I'm you see my nerd assmpe clothes with my bow

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Speaker 1: straps on my backpack, Like I'm really up. You're telling

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Speaker 1: me I'm a problem. And the reason why I'm a

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Speaker 1: problem is because this is the source material that us

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Speaker 1: moving into your city, into this part of town is

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Speaker 1: going to bring the problems that you're talking about in

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Speaker 1: this thing. Absolutely, yeah, that's that's exactly, and that that

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Speaker 1: kind of fear, that's that specific population sphere is what

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Speaker 1: he's stoking with this. And obviously the bulk of this article,

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Speaker 1: there's that little study from Philadelphia that's um that that

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Speaker 1: is kind of the statistical nut for for what he's

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Speaker 1: writing here. Um, But most of it's based on interviews

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Speaker 1: with police officers and other individuals with a very obvious bias.

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Speaker 1: One district attorney is cited in the article is saying

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Speaker 1: about children they kill her maim on impulse without any

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Speaker 1: intelligible motive, and a police officer is quoted as saying,

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Speaker 1: I never used to be scared. Now I say a

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Speaker 1: quick hail Mary. Every time I get a call at

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Speaker 1: night involving juveniles, I pray I go home in one

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Speaker 1: piece to my own kids. See this book. It's like

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Speaker 1: all these times that we say, like like fast forward

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Speaker 1: to Tamir Rice and you're treating this fourteen year old

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Speaker 1: like a goddamn adult. It's this ship. It's like, like

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Speaker 1: we not just keep like we're kids kids like everybody else.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm so triggered right now. This Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's not going to get less frustrated. So

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Speaker 1: in the article, these quotes are followed by quotes from

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Speaker 1: a group of what who Delulio describes as life term

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Speaker 1: inmates in a prison uh in New Jersey. UM And

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Speaker 1: Delulo makes sure we know of these inmates that quote.

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Speaker 1: Many of them are black males from inner city Newark

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Speaker 1: and Camden. Uh. And these guys he quotes, is being

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Speaker 1: terrified of today's super predator children too. So he's being like, look,

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Speaker 1: even these black criminals in prison are scared of kids

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Speaker 1: these days, like it's it's really a pretty horrific article. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: according to Wikipedia, Delulio is a Democrat today. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that's true. I don't know much about his

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Speaker 1: present life. It is important we be clear that he

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Speaker 1: was wrong about everything predicted in this article. His big

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Speaker 1: prediction is that because of these super predators, juvenile crime

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Speaker 1: would triple by two thousand ten. But of course, by

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Speaker 1: the time he wrote this article, juvenile crime had already

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Speaker 1: been dropping for a couple of years, and by two

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Speaker 1: thousand eleven, juvenile homicides had plunged by two thirds. So

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Speaker 1: he's literally the opposite of what he says happens pretty much. Um,

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Speaker 1: and despite the fact that he was perfectly wrong about

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Speaker 1: what's pretty much the only noteworthy claim he makes in

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Speaker 1: his career, delu Leo received two awards in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and ten for Excellence and Academics. Of course, again, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. What matters that you gave people an excuse

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Speaker 1: to be scared and do violence. Um, that's all you

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Speaker 1: gotta do. Yeah, what's what's interesting about this moment is

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Speaker 1: around I'm a really show you all some some Mike.

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Speaker 1: Actual politics was like around the end of the nineties,

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Speaker 1: there was a call that came from really from jail

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Speaker 1: that was like, you gotta stop doing drive bys. And

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Speaker 1: it was basic because it was like listen to it's

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Speaker 1: just it's just not g like, this is not We're

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Speaker 1: not spending our lifetime in prison for y'all to just

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Speaker 1: drive by somewhere and shoot them. So so even like

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Speaker 1: even the violent crime kind of slowing down, that was

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Speaker 1: like we did that for ourselves, you know, saying like

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Speaker 1: like it wasn't and granted obviously like the War on

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Speaker 1: Jugs and the Gang of Junctions and Rico and all

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Speaker 1: this different stuff, and the gang uptick, Like obviously, like

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Speaker 1: of course you're gonna drop. You're gonna drop crime if

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Speaker 1: gentrification starts other stuff that the economy is expanding huge

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Speaker 1: gets created. I'm like, we got jobs number one. I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: we're adults now we have jobs, and there's other things

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Speaker 1: to do happening around. Yeah, you start to see the

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Speaker 1: impact of the fact that they got lit out of

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Speaker 1: fucking gasoline, you know, stating in like what the seventies

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Speaker 1: of the eighties, so like a bunch of ship happens,

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Speaker 1: that's why crime drops by so much. Total it's important

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Speaker 1: is that doulu Leo is again perfectly wrong. Absolute. Yeah. Now,

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Speaker 1: the despite this fact, his work had a huge influence

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Speaker 1: on how juvenile crime was perceived, and it led to

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Speaker 1: a massive change nationwide and how often children were tried

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Speaker 1: and sentenced as adults. I want to quote now from

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Speaker 1: an article in NBC News about this period because it

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Speaker 1: makes a good point about some broader trends that Delulo's

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Speaker 1: work fed into. So he's not obviously the beginning of

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Speaker 1: this quote. Just a few years before, the news media

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Speaker 1: had introduced the terms wilding and wolfpack to the national

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Speaker 1: vocabulary to describe five teenagers, four black and one Hispanic,

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Speaker 1: who were convicted and later exonerated, of the rape of

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Speaker 1: a woman in New York Central Park. That's this kind

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Speaker 1: of animal savagery was already in the conversation, said Kim

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Speaker 1: Taylor Thompson, a law professor at New York University. The

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Speaker 1: super predator language began a process of allowing us to

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Speaker 1: suspend our feelings of empathy towards young people of color.

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Speaker 1: And again, I might I might quible about it that

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Speaker 1: this began the processes a moment. Yeah, yeah, one of

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Speaker 1: started it escalates. I think it's fair to say that

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Speaker 1: it does escalate absolutely, and and and more to the point,

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Speaker 1: it leads to kind of some structural things that that

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Speaker 1: that escalate. How this is actually like built into the

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Speaker 1: legal system. Um, now, it's probably worth noting before we

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Speaker 1: move on that delu Leo's mentor was a political scientist

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Speaker 1: named James Q. Wilson. Now. Mr Wilson got famous for

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Speaker 1: writing a nineteen five book with the title Crime and

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Speaker 1: Human Nature, which argued that criminality was caused by specific

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Speaker 1: genetic factors. You will not again. Yeah, he also got

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Speaker 1: famous for chasing around Dennis the Menace, Mr Wilson because

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Speaker 1: this is that, Mr. Yes. Anyway, go on, Um, he

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Speaker 1: spends a lot of his book writing paragraphs like this.

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Speaker 1: A central problem, perhaps the central problem and improving the

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Speaker 1: relationship between white and black Americans, is the difference in

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Speaker 1: racial crime rates. No matter how whit a center guilty

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Speaker 1: a stranger, maybe he carries with him in public the

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Speaker 1: burdens or benefits of his group identity. Now you know, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the fact that like, yes, people carry with them like

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Speaker 1: the benefits of how their group, the group that they

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Speaker 1: visually at least belonged to his person by society. Sure, um,

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Speaker 1: but it's yeah, there's a lot of kind of eugenic

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Speaker 1: c e ship in this book where he's sort of

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Speaker 1: talking about like certain populations are more prone for crime,

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Speaker 1: and it definitely definitely ignores a lot of important things

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Speaker 1: like how economics feed into it and how certain historical trends.

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Speaker 1: There's obviously he's he's he's piece of shit. Um. And

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Speaker 1: it's not surprising that racists said racist ship. What is

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Speaker 1: surprising is that both of these guys, these very right wing,

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Speaker 1: very kind of white supremacist e thinkers, are backed not

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Speaker 1: just by conservatives but by supposedly liberal colleges. And what

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Speaker 1: they wrote was uncritically disseminated by large chunks of the

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Speaker 1: mainstream media. And here's NBC again. The Marshall Projects review

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Speaker 1: of forty major news outlets in the five years after

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Speaker 1: his Weekly Standard article shows the new legis neilogism hopping

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Speaker 1: up nearly three hundred times, and that is an undercount.

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Speaker 1: There was the Philadelphia Inquirers Fawnding magazine profile of Delu Leo,

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Speaker 1: who grew up there. Until recently, Pennsylvania had the country's

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Speaker 1: largest population of people still serving life sentences without parole

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Speaker 1: for crimes they committed as children. There was also a lengthy,

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Speaker 1: mostly gentle New Yorker profile, a spot on the New

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Speaker 1: York Times is op ed page, and an appearance on

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Speaker 1: CBS Evening News. The media exposure led to conference invitations,

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Speaker 1: which led to more media exposure. The words super predator

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Speaker 1: became so much a part of the national vocabulary that

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Speaker 1: journalists and talk show hosts used it without reference to

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Speaker 1: de Lulo, including even Oprah Winfrey in a segment on

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Speaker 1: Good Morning America. So this is one of those things

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Speaker 1: that is just such a successful piece of fucking culture

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Speaker 1: jambing Clinton, Yeah, Clinton to Everyone uses it, and most

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Speaker 1: people don't even recognize know anything about de lu Leo,

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Speaker 1: know anything about Wilson, know anything about like where this

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Speaker 1: comes from. They just kind of take it as scientific fact. Almost.

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Speaker 1: That moment, even with with Oprah, is like stellar reputation

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Speaker 1: with black people. That moment, like we never forgot that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you know what I'm saying. And I was like, yo, really,

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Speaker 1: like you really don't let this man talk talk about

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Speaker 1: us like this. Yeah, And it's perfect what he's saying.

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Speaker 1: It's really perfectly framed for shows like Oprah was doing

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Speaker 1: for like daytime TV rights, the kind of thing that

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Speaker 1: people who are like in the middle of their day

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Speaker 1: will will stop to hear about because you're you're tickling

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Speaker 1: that amygdala, you're making the like for one thing, adults

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Speaker 1: are always a little not always, but it is very

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Speaker 1: common for adults to be kind of uncomfortable around teenagers.

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Speaker 1: They're weird. They like things you don't understand. Yeah you

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Speaker 1: forgot what it was like, Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh and

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Speaker 1: if you can again, there's a shipload of money to

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Speaker 1: be made and tapping into the fact that a lot

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Speaker 1: of adults are just kind of uncomfortable around teams and

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Speaker 1: two our to our I mean I taught freshman, so

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Speaker 1: I was around teens all the time. But in adults defense,

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Speaker 1: teams are weird. Oh yeah, I one in my and

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Speaker 1: without a taser for sure. I got one in my house,

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Speaker 1: and I'll be like, I love you, you you are you

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Speaker 1: are you are my child. I am raising you. That's

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Speaker 1: weird because like, oh yeah, yeah, like are sorts of

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Speaker 1: all sorts of music that that I just think, finally, people,

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Speaker 1: finally music is wrong. It took a long time. It

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Speaker 1: took when before me who said that music was wrong

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Speaker 1: was wrong. But now it's wrong. Now that's wrong. Now,

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Speaker 1: now it's wrong. Now I am. I am happy to

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Speaker 1: report that my child is oh so when it comes

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Speaker 1: to music, and like, we actually like a lot of

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Speaker 1: the same stuff except for her B two BTS obsession.

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Speaker 1: But besides that, we're like, we're pretty much on the

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Speaker 1: same page. But that's an exception. Her father's a rapper,

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Speaker 1: so of course she's gonna know a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about music. Yeah, it's uh anyway, so um. The fear

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Speaker 1: dreamed up or drummed up by these nonsense theories and

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Speaker 1: the media recitations of them, led to a surge in

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Speaker 1: zero tolerance, in zero tolerance rules for in school, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of horrible ship we covered in an episode

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Speaker 1: we did titled the War on Children. If you want

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Speaker 1: more of an idea of how politicians grabbed onto all

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Speaker 1: of this, I should read a quote from Senator or

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Speaker 1: in Hatch in n We've got to quit cuddling these

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Speaker 1: violent kids. Like nothing that's going on. Getting some of

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Speaker 1: these do good or liberals to do what's right is

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Speaker 1: real tough. We'd all like to rehabilitate these kids, but

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Speaker 1: by gosh, we are in a different age, right, or

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Speaker 1: in Hatch everybody or Hatch everybody the man who made

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Speaker 1: sure that you can sell supplements filled with lead to

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Speaker 1: people and there's no regulations on it. Good man, that's

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Speaker 1: our guy we love, or in hatch um. So today, however,

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Speaker 1: we're not. This is just a leaded because the thing

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Speaker 1: that we are talking is one of the worst crimes.

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Speaker 1: All this rhetoric and racism directly enabled. This is a

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Speaker 1: story of greed that begat violence on an almost industrial scale,

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Speaker 1: the Cash for Kids scandal. Now are two main bastards

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Speaker 1: for today are a pair of former judges, Mark Ciavarella

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Speaker 1: uh and Michael Conna hand YEA sie Evarella is how

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Speaker 1: it's pronounced, more or less now. Mark A. Siavarella was

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Speaker 1: born on March third, nineteen fifty in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: He was raised on the east end of the city,

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Speaker 1: and he went to a Catholic high school. Here's how

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Speaker 1: the New York Times described his upbringing, quote a stellar

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Speaker 1: athlete and student. Judge Siavarella was the son of a

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Speaker 1: brewery worker and a phone company operator nicknamed Scooch. Like

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Speaker 1: his father, he drove a beat up both swagen Beetle

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Speaker 1: for years, and even after moving away, he visited his

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Speaker 1: aging mother daily until she died in two thousand seven.

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Speaker 1: The boy's name was Scooch, Scooch, Scooch, and Scooch grows up.

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Speaker 1: You know, to his credit, he's working class, like a

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Speaker 1: lot of most people become judges, not don't come from

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Speaker 1: like scooch bro. Like you know you, Scooch, Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: you one of the guys, Bro. They don't. They don't

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Speaker 1: call rich kids scooch. Nobody, nobody ever went to a

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Speaker 1: British boarding school and got called scoop bro, Scooch man,

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Speaker 1: you and scooch yall cut school, went the cornered liquor store,

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Speaker 1: stole a beer and like hung out and smoked your

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Speaker 1: granddad's cigarettes, like Scooch stole a lot of cigarettes. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say thirteen at least. Yeah. So after law school

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Speaker 1: he went to Duquesne University in Pittsburgh. I think that's

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Speaker 1: how it pronounced. Uh. Mark Siavarella ran for a seat

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Speaker 1: in the country's Court of Common Pleas in August of

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Speaker 1: nineteen now as a judge. Because he wins, he becomes

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Speaker 1: known for the fact that he is a harsh sentence

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Speaker 1: er um and also kind of like he he likes

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Speaker 1: to be kind of the judge judy dude. He likes

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Speaker 1: to have these like quips and ship and I want

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Speaker 1: to play an ad from his nineteen campaign to make

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Speaker 1: it clear how inside of the super predator zeitgeist this

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Speaker 1: dude was. I hate this guy already. Yeah, he's not

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Speaker 1: great and convicted of hurder right or violent primes against

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Speaker 1: our children or the elderly. You're gonna expect that I

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Speaker 1: will have closed the maximum sentence allowed by law. Now,

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Speaker 1: you can't do that. No, legally, No, you can't run

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Speaker 1: to be a judge. There's a thing called the Judicial

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Speaker 1: Code of Conduct, dude. One of the things that says

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Speaker 1: is that if you're running to be a judge, you

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Speaker 1: can't make pledges or promises to voters about your rulings

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Speaker 1: other than that they'll be faithful and impartial because you're

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Speaker 1: a judge. Let me, okay, can I can I put

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Speaker 1: my teacher hat on right now? Okay? Listen, civics lesson.

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Speaker 1: You got your three branches of government right, and two

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Speaker 1: of the three branches are elected officials. The reason why

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00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: you don't elect quote unquote judges are because they are

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Speaker 1: supposed to be above the fray. You're supposed to not

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Speaker 1: be able to because of popularity, what's going on in

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Speaker 1: the world. You're supposed to not be They are supposed

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Speaker 1: to be above that because they are adjudicating the rights

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Speaker 1: and privileges of everybody around us. So you're not supposed

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Speaker 1: to do that. You even running an ad is already like, fam,

408
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 1: what did you You can't like? This is not then

409
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: you got to law school? G Like, you're not allowed.

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00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 1: I'm so frustrating right now. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: is frustrating. Yeah, but you know what's not frustrating the

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Speaker 1: products and services that support this podcast because they very

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Speaker 1: few of whom are running for judge ships. Although never

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Speaker 1: actually some did you just say that the products and

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Speaker 1: services aren't frustrating? None of them, not a single one.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, man, Some of those dudes be seeping in.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what our filters be doing, you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But I will say it's a lot

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Speaker 1: of y'all because y'all be showing up. Boy. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what what should be the Washington State Highway Patrol again?

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Speaker 1: How did that happen? How did that happen? It's weird

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Speaker 1: too that they would, like us, who becomes a cop

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Speaker 1: in Washington because of a podcast? At It's like when

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Speaker 1: Coke Industries was like who the fuck? Like what what

425
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: motherfucker listens to a podcast and goes, well, that's where

426
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: I'm giving my oil refining business. Is our demographic? Who

427
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: do we want to move to? Ohio? Yeah, it's very

428
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: funny people that. Yeah, so here's some ads. Ah, we're back.

429
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: So one of Judge Ciavarella's opponents in that election, Thomas Commetta,

430
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 1: later like he brings up that, like this ad is

431
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 1: a breach of judicial ethics. Um, and Committa says pretty sensibly,

432
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: how can you trust someone who runs for judge and

433
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: breaks the law as a candidate to like follow the

434
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: law while they're a judge? Right exactly now? Our boy

435
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: responds that it's fine because all of the keywords in

436
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: his ad were quote allowed by law, which is a

437
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: very funny response to that. This guys, Yeah, oh my god,

438
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: I hate this guy. You ruined my childhood. I'm telling

439
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: whoever that is he ruined much out it. Yeah, I'm

440
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: not even boy here. The real king of ruining childhoods

441
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: this day, So Judge sie Verrella, however it's pronounced. I'm

442
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 1: hearing some weird things in the Italian site that I

443
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: just checked into double check this and I forgot. But people,

444
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: here's a lot of names in this show, a lot

445
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: of names. I even watched the documentary about this. I forget.

446
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: I'm bad at it, Like you could deal with it.

447
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: Go listen to fucking I don't know what's another podcast

448
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: that is good at names. None of them are because

449
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: they're at some sort of NPR name, Mr don't listen

450
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 1: to NPR. They do this ship they're good at that.

451
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: The thing is, so, the thing is he put a

452
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: lot of innocent people intoil. Already know that he does.

453
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: Oh that's yeah, that already yes. So, uh, that's Judge

454
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 1: Sieverella's background, right, that's the kind of man he is.

455
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: And we'll returned to him in a minute because he's

456
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: our main character today. But we should talk about a

457
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: friend of his, judge Michael Conahan, who's another part of

458
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: this story. Hand Conahan. Yeah, Now, where Chivarella was a

459
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 1: working class kid who clawed his way into the upper crust,

460
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: Michael was born sipping mint julips at the country club.

461
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: That may be a slight exaggeration, but his dad was

462
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: town mayor for twelve years. He is, you know, like

463
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: he's he's he's the mayor's son. Yeah, I hate this guy. Now.

464
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 1: His dad also owned a funeral home and was a

465
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: heinously abusive prick. While Conahan was begging for clemency spoilers

466
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: years later, his lawyer said, quote, he comes from a

467
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: family with a patriarch who drove his children to success

468
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: and used money as a barometer of that success. He

469
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: was taught the ends justified the means. Wait, did you

470
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: say he was begging for clemency. Yeah, this is when

471
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: he's being tried for the stuff that he does. So

472
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: take this with a grain of salt, right. Um, Yeah,

473
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 1: but here's the Times Tribune trying like reporting on what

474
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: he claimed about his upbringing. Later, Mr Conahan was beaten

475
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: mercilessly by his father when he was a teenager for

476
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: simply forgetting to stoke the family furnace at the funeral home.

477
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: His eildhood left him with deep insecurities and inadequacies that

478
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: he repressed with alcohol. So he's he definitely I think

479
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: has a drinking problem. Um, we'll talk about how much

480
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: we believe any of that or how much we believe

481
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: it even if does he says later, see, that's the

482
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: that's the stuff that I'd be like, listen, man, you

483
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: just you just can't trust white people because I'd be like,

484
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: what that should do was build empathy that you went

485
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: through that you should be like, you know what, I'm

486
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: gonna be much more gracious to a lot of people.

487
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: These people come from struggle. It's been hard. Hell, I

488
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: was beat for doing things that wouldn't have I understand

489
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: that you may make some bad decisions in your life.

490
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: It's all good man, I'm gonna give you a second chance.

491
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: But no, you decided to become na bro. Nah yeah yeah, yeah.

492
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: I mean it's one of those like I know a

493
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: lot of people who got smacked around his kids. Most

494
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 1: people I know did not do the things that this

495
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: guy later don't even I was like, you don't even

496
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: need to finish. I've been smacked around, Joe. I got

497
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: I got spanked in my public school, dude. Yeah. Um. Now,

498
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: while Conahan was still a child, there was an incident

499
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: in his father's political career that what if His sisters

500
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: would later note as relevant their dad awarded a business

501
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: contract to a good friend, which led to charges that

502
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: he'd committed an ethics violation. Quote the elder Mr Conahan

503
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: couldn't understand why people considered it an ethical violation because

504
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: he was awarding a contract to a friend because he

505
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: thought that friend's work would benefit the community. She said.

506
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: Their father never understood this. He couldn't see what the

507
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: problem was. So in these two guys prop, you've got

508
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: one working class kid with a chip on his shoulder

509
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: who's willing to violate ethical guidelines to threaten children in

510
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: order to get elected by hitching his start to a

511
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: racist criminal justice trend. And then you've got the insecure

512
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: and possibly traumatized rich kids son of a politician raised

513
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: to believe that blatant crony ism and corruption is fine

514
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: if your goals are noble. Right. So these are our

515
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: main characters. To Bombo, real Combo, I appreciate you having

516
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: me on this because I would have had thoughts had

517
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: happen listening to this show, I'd be like, I got thoughts.

518
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: So I'm very glad to be on this. Yeah. Oh boy.

519
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: So Judge Sea Rolla was on the County Court of

520
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: Common Pleas and Judge Conahan was the president judge, which

521
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: gave him power of the purse. He gets to decide

522
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: spending for a lot of the local justice system, right

523
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: like he's a big part. He has a lot of

524
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: power deciding where the money goes in terms of like

525
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: incarceration and stuff for the county. The New York Times

526
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: lays out what happens next quote It all started in

527
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: June of two thousand with a simple business proposition. According

528
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: to the judge's indictment and more than forty interviews with

529
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: courtroom workers, authorities, and others, Robert J. Powell, a wealthy

530
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: personal injury lawyer from Hazelton, Pennsylvania and longtime friend of

531
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: Judge Conahan, wanted to know how he might get a

532
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: contract to build a private detention center. Judge sever La

533
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: thought he could help. The two men agreed to meet, and,

534
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: according to prosecutors, somewhere in that conversation, a plan was

535
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: hatched that courthouse workers and county officials would later describe

536
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: as a freight train without breaks. First, Judge Sieverrella put

537
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: Mr Powell in touch with a developer who also happened

538
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: to be an old friend, Robert K. Miracle, to start

539
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: work on finding a site. Then, in January two thousand two,

540
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: the month Judge Conahan became President Judge, giving him control

541
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: of the courthouse budget, he signed a secret deal with

542
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: Mr Powell, agreeing that the court would pay one point

543
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: three million in annual rent on top of tens of

544
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: millions of dollars that the county and state would pay

545
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: the house to delinquent juveniles. And by the end of

546
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: that year, Judge Conahan had gotten rid of the competition

547
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: by eliminating financing for the County Detention Center. So they

548
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: make a deal with these people making a child prison,

549
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: and then they closed the County child prison and agree

550
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: not just to send kids there and give them the

551
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: money that comes from sending kids there, but to give

552
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: them a special one point three million dollar a year

553
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: deal on top of all that money. Right, already pretty

554
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: fucked up. It's already all bad, dude, like in in

555
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: every well, okay, let me not say every in California. Um.

556
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: When I was teaching, the idea, the theory was it

557
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: takes about three thousand dollars a day to educate a child.

558
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: So when you got into school, took role and you

559
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: clicked Evans here click the school got three thousand dollars. Right,

560
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: So this is why role was so important, and when

561
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: you ditched, why it was so important, why you had

562
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: truancy offers, officers, why the police pulled up if you

563
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: wasn't at school, Because it's like, I make three grand

564
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: every time you hear and every time you're not here

565
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: with some sort of unexcused absence, I'm losing three thousand

566
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: dollars per student. So I am incentivized just to make

567
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: sure you're in a seat. I really don't care whether

568
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: you learn anything or not. I just need to know

569
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: you in the seat. So when you add that to prisons,

570
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: it's the same thing. How much does it cost to

571
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: prison a kid, to you know, in prison a kid?

572
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: Three thou dollars, five thousand dollars. You mean to tell

573
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: me I can make how much? How much can I

574
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: make presents? Okay, dope, Well then check this out. Here's

575
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: the situation. How about I feed you stuff and you

576
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: just throw me money back. God, it's fuck up, I mean,

577
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: and it is. It is like it's a little more

578
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: understandable in schools just because like, yes, school has fixed costs,

579
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: budgets are usually tight and like that's a problem. It

580
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: is a problem with what's happening here. They had a

581
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: place to put these kids, purely about allowing a couple

582
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: of dudes to profit, to profit off of incarcerating children.

583
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: And this was a really obvious scheme too. Many of

584
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: their colleagues saw what was going on, at least the

585
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: surface parts of it, and complained. Judge Chester or Rowski

586
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: sent a letter to the county commissioners complaining about the

587
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: increase in detention costs. He was transferred by Conahan to

588
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: another court a couple of days later, because again Conahan's

589
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: the president judge. So this other judge complains and he's like, yeah,

590
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: you're you got a different job now, man. Uh Morowski

591
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: later told interviewers, quote, they were unstoppable. I knew something

592
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: was wrong, but they silenced all dissent. And again he

593
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: doesn't know everything that that we uh would know later.

594
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: He just knows that like something shady is going on

595
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: and complains about like the detention center. Um, so there's

596
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: a lawsuit over this. The county controller, Steve Flood, leaked

597
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: a state audit which showed that the state had analyzed

598
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: the deal to lease the center as a bad one.

599
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: So Steve Flood leaks that like, hey, the States said that,

600
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: like there's no good reason to do this. This is

601
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: just like seems to kind of be a grift. Now.

602
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: The child prison in question, which was named p A Childcare,

603
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: then sued Mr Flood for releasing trade secrets, while Judge

604
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: Conahan sealed the lawsuit to stop any of the leaked

605
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: documents from getting out to the public. One court worker

606
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: later told The Times, everyone began to assume that the

607
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: judges had some vested interest in the private center because

608
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: they were pushing it so doggedly. And they did, of

609
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: course they did. I was like, please get today, Like,

610
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: of course they did. Why kids getting maximum sentences? We

611
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: teenagers getting maximum sentences anyway, going oh boy, it's it's

612
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: probly you already know how bad this is. But also

613
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: it's gonna be worse in some ways than I think

614
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: you might be. Ready. You probably are because I only

615
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: know my own experience. I only know California. Yeah, yeah,

616
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll be interested to see if you're surprised

617
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: by some of the things these kids go away for,

618
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: because I don't know like you. I mean, they're like, okay,

619
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: before you tell me the story I would tell you

620
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: the story of a friend of mine who he was

621
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: an upperclassman. Um was in I'll tell you two stories.

622
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: One he was in the backseat. Basketball player in the

623
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: back seat, asked for a ride home. You know your kids.

624
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 1: You know some kids got a car, Like everybody have

625
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: a car. His kids got a car. It's like, hey,

626
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: can I get a ride home. It's like, yeah, I

627
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: get it right home. We're gonna make a stop right quick.

628
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: So the dudes up front in the front made a

629
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: stop right quick, broke into somebody's house, robbed some stuff

630
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: getting there. He's in the back seat, sleep right. The

631
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 1: kids tell even on the scant the kids were like, yo,

632
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: he really had nothing to do with it. We was

633
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: just giving the ride home. He's not really involved in all.

634
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: That kid did five years and they told him. They

635
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: told the judge, dude, we were just giving him a

636
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: ride home. Like he had nothing to do with it.

637
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: Still went to prison. Right. I have another friend who's

638
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: uh uncle was hiding a syringe from his mom or

639
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: my friends grandma because that was his uncle, right. So

640
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: he was like, so it says to my friend's mom.

641
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: So he's like, it was a syringe in his backpack

642
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: had no idea. You have this thing that was called

643
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 1: the gang injunctions in Los Angeles, which was like if

644
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: you were if you were in more than if you

645
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: were in a group of two or three more people,

646
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: it's considered a gang. Right. So standard you're walking home

647
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: from school with two of your friends, you're in a gang. Right.

648
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: So the fool pulls them over, searches the backpack. You

649
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: gotta crack syringe. Right. The judge listen on Mama's Robert

650
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: the judge was like, this kid has no criminal record.

651
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: I truly believe his story, but the law says I

652
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: have a mandatory minimum of five years. This kid did

653
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: five years for his uncle. Syringe came out of criminal

654
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,760
Speaker 1: guy came out of prison a criminal. Like he was like, yeah,

655
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: now he's a criminal because like you just you just

656
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: made you just threw him to the wolf. And there's

657
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: a lot of documentation of that. Like that's what happens

658
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 1: when you send kids these facilities. Um, all right, so

659
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: well I will I will tell you some of the

660
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: things these kids went away for, um and we'll we'll

661
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: see how you feel about that. But Jesus Christ, um, Okay,

662
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: So Paul the guy who is the realists or the

663
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: lawyer who like helps start talking about this deal would

664
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: later claim in court that after they get this thing

665
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: under way, the two judges extorted him for bribes, and

666
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: they basically said, we won't send more kids to your facility,

667
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: and it will go out of business right if you don't,

668
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: if you don't pay us directly. I think that's a lie.

669
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: Obviously they got paid. I think he's lying about them

670
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: extorting him. I I suspect this was the plan from

671
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: the beginning, right. Um. There's a number of reasons this

672
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: is unlikely. One thing is that, as the Times Tribune reports,

673
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: which is a local paper, there were plenty of other

674
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: kids from Pennsylvania to go to the to the go

675
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: to the juvenile detention center. They wouldn't have gone out

676
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: of business if these judges had stopped. So I think

677
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: they just had I think they had a mutually beneficial arrangement.

678
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: I don't think he got extorted at all. The reality

679
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: seems to be that Powel and his business partner, the

680
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: builder of the PA childcare center, Robert Miracle, agreed to

681
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: bribe Conahan Judge Sieverrella in order to secure one point

682
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: three million dollars a year and guaranteed rent plus additional

683
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 1: funds because every time they get another youth prisoner, they

684
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: get more money. Um. So in exchange for this, Judge

685
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: Siavarella and Conahan get hundreds of thousands of dollars per

686
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: year in total, about two point eight million dollars um

687
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: and this is over I think like a four or

688
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: five year period, so a lot of money. Now. Judge

689
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: Sievrella was extremely eager to do his part, as this

690
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: quote from The Wall Street Journal's coverage makes makes clear.

691
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: Quote Judge Judge Mark Sieverrella Jr. Reportedly sent kids to

692
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: the private detention centers when probation officers didn't think it

693
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: was a good idea. He sent kids there when their

694
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: crimes were nonviolent. He sent kids there when their crimes

695
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: were insignificant. It was as though he was determined to

696
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: keep those private prisons filled with children at all times.

697
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: According to news stories, offense is the smallest Swiping a

698
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: jar of nutmeg or throwing a piece of steak at

699
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: an adult were enough to merit a trip to the

700
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 1: Who's Goal. Over the years, Mark Sieverrella racked up a

701
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: truly awesome score. He sent kids to detention instead of

702
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: other options, at twice the state average. According to the

703
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: New York Times, he tried a prodigious number of cases

704
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,479
Speaker 1: in which the accused child had no lawyer. Here, says

705
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: the Times, the judges numbers were fully ten times the

706
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: state average, and he did it fast, sometimes rendering a

707
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: verdict in the neighborhood of a minute and a half

708
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: to three minutes. What yeah, like, oh man, just instantly.

709
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: Some people will say there were thirty second judgments where

710
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: he just stands before him and he's just you're done, bro.

711
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: So this is the stuff Mapasse would talk about. He

712
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: would be like, we would know him among the other

713
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: probation officers. They would already know, like this kid don't

714
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: need to go to know, he don't need to go

715
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: to Like he's fine, just like let me you know,

716
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 1: I'll take care of you know what I'm saying. And

717
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 1: you stand in front of judge. Soon as you see

718
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: the judge, you'll be like, oh shit, here we go.

719
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: He's not gonna listen to me, you know what I'm saying.

720
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: So my father was like in his thirty years, he

721
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: never he never he never recommended prison ever thirty years. Never.

722
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: Reck Minty prison. It was always like i'll take him,

723
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: I'll take him, I'll take him, I'll take him. Didn't matter.

724
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: He knew he knew the judge when he walked in.

725
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: He knew the judge. He would be like, the kid's

726
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: going to jail. This kid's going to jail. He just

727
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: knew as soon as he looked at the judge. Yeah.

728
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: And it's one of those like yeah, it's it's it's

729
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: just so fucked up that it that it could work

730
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: that way, that it's ever been allowed to work that

731
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 1: way that like it doesn't everyone can know it's wrong,

732
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: including like fucking the parole officers and everyone. It's just

733
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: this guy. It's one of those things like I know

734
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: some people who have like not done time because they

735
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,479
Speaker 1: got a judge who was like get a great judge. Chill,

736
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: Like the judge who was like was like this is bullshit,

737
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: Like I have no desire. A friend of I just

738
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: didn't go to prison. A couple of we were at

739
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: all in court with him a couple of months ago, um,

740
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: and it was because the judge was like, well this

741
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: is this is like basically said the judge equipment like

742
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: this is a stupid case. Yeah. So that does happen.

743
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, a case like that was

744
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: a good judge. She was like, yeah, you get them

745
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes when they're bad, they can do a lot

746
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,959
Speaker 1: of damage. And that's like Sivarella does a lot of damage. Um.

747
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: The Morning Call, which is another local paper in Pennsylvania,

748
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: does a good job of outlining some of the several

749
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: of these cases. Um. And this is from After This

750
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: All Broke is a story and a bunch of the

751
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: judge's victims sue. So I'm gonna I'm gonna read a

752
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: quote here of them, kind of summarizing some of the

753
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: worst cases. Among them was Melanie Petrillo, who said she

754
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: was twelve when she first went before sie Evarella in

755
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: juvenile court in two thousand two. Si Evarella, she said,

756
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: wouldn't let her speak in her own defense. On Monday,

757
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 1: Petrilo testified that a visiting friend set a small fire

758
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: in a garbage can outside her house. She went inside

759
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: to get a glass of water, and police quickly arrived.

760
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: She was arrested and later taken before sie Evarella, who

761
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: sentenced her to a few months at the former Luzerne

762
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: County Juvenile Detention Center. It was horrifying. Petrilo recalled, I

763
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: had to put a blanket over my head so the

764
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: cockroaches wouldn't all on me, like many of si Evarrella

765
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: and Conahan's victims. This was the start of years of

766
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 1: relentless contact between Petrilo, a child, and the criminal justice system.

767
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: When Patrilo went away for the first time, it was

768
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: to a county center, not to the place bribing the judge,

769
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: but she was released under harsh probation terms, which of course,

770
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: she violated, which brought her back in front of Judge Ciavarella,

771
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: who then sent her to PA Childcare. Who was this

772
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: place giving him kickbacks? Of course, Yeah, very old story.

773
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 1: Petrilo claims this time behind bars led to her falling

774
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,919
Speaker 1: in with a bad crowd due to her reputation, which

775
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: led to her getting a burglary charge. She winds up

776
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: in front of Siavarla a third time, and she she

777
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: doesn't get out of juvenile attention until she's an adult,

778
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: like her whole childhood from age twelve on. Um, So

779
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 1: the last six years of her childhood just gone as

780
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: a result of this this chain of events. Now, the

781
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: judge sent another girl, Elizabeth Laurent, to a pH to

782
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: pH childcare for thirty two days after she was caught

783
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,439
Speaker 1: bringing opiate pills to school. She of course then had

784
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: after ing out of PIA Childcare, she has a probation violation. Obviously,

785
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: this happens with all of them, and she winds up

786
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: in front of Judge si Evrella again. He sends her

787
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: next to Camp Adams, which is a juvenile boot camp.

788
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 1: I haven't seen any evidence this boot camp gave camp

789
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: gave him evidence, gave him kickbacks. Like he doesn't always

790
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: send kids to the places that are paying him. He

791
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: really likes to send kids, incarcerated children, even if he's

792
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: not getting money. He's just fine to take bribes for

793
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: it too. Elizabeth Laurent, because she winds up getting sent

794
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: to this boot camp, loses the college scholarship that she

795
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: had won. Uh and obviously things go worse for her

796
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: after this. She claims that she started hanging out with

797
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: a quote unquote bad kid because the parents of her

798
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: old friends wouldn't let her hang out with him anymore. Um,

799
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, things go you know. From there, She's

800
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: in and out of different places. Her overwhelming memory of

801
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: Sieverrella as he demolished her hopes and dreams again. She

802
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: had a college scholarship set up when this happens was

803
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,959
Speaker 1: coldness and what she described as a nonchalant demeanor. That's whatever,

804
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: like he's again very perfunctory for him. Um. Zachary Richards

805
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: wound up in front of the judge because he stole

806
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: a candy bar. Uh. He was after this, Yeah, at

807
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: age fourteen, he steals a candy bar. Sieverrella sends him

808
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: to juvenile attention um, and he's there for the rest

809
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: of his childhood, from age fourteen to eighteen, mostly in

810
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: pah childcare, the place giving the judge kickbacks. Um. His

811
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: mom is adamant that Zachary never recovers from this, and

812
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: she blames his suicide at age seven on Judge si Evarella.

813
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: She is not the only mother making this claim. And

814
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote now from a write up by pin Live.

815
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: Fonso's son was seventeen and an all star wrestler with

816
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: a chance at a college scholarship when he landed in

817
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: Sieverarella's courtroom on a minor drug paraphernalia charge. Though the

818
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:48,280
Speaker 1: teen Edward Kinseloski Edward Kinzikowski had no prior criminal record,

819
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: he spent months at the private lockups in a wilderness

820
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: camp and missed his senior year of high school. Kinzikowski

821
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: emerged an angry, bitter, depressed young man. He committed suicide

822
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: last June at the age of twenty three. He was

823
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: just never the same. He couldn't recover. He wanted to

824
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:04,919
Speaker 1: go on with his life, but he was just hurt.

825
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: He was affected so deeply, more than anyone knew. That's

826
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: his his mom um. Yeah, it's bleak uh yeah, stuff

827
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: like that. It just hits so close to home because

828
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 1: I know kids who were either my friends or people

829
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 1: like taught that, Like I know the like man, these

830
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: are like gentle souls and then they're put in this

831
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: situation over a motherfucking candy bar. Come on, man, Yeah yeah,

832
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: and then was crazy is like at least and Cally

833
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: Camp is your best bet, you know what I'm saying,

834
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: Because it's like there's a school there, you know what

835
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's not like East, Like, it's not like Central,

836
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 1: which is like I mean, that's just that's or you

837
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: get sent up to y A, which is California Youth

838
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: Authority that's up in the north. That's prison. Yeah, and

839
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: it's very saying because some states the wild ferness bootcamp,

840
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: so the worst place you can go. It just kind

841
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: of depends on, yeah, your system, because some of those

842
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: places are nightmares. Yeah. Yeah, it's just everywhere's you know,

843
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: different depending on how bad they're din. And obviously our

844
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: camp is not wilderness in any way. It's just like

845
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: it's there's there's one in Whittier, California, like just right

846
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: off the corner of like, yeah, like the wilds of Whittier. Yeah,

847
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: it's just Los Pedrinos. It's like Whittier and freaking Marvista Drive.

848
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: It's just like, oh hey, look there's a juvenile prison

849
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 1: right there. Yeah. So one of Judged Ciavarella's favorite places

850
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: to send kids when he couldn't send them to p

851
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 1: a childcare was the Glen Mills School. Ryan Lamoreaux, for example,

852
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 1: was sent there by Civarella for five years on a

853
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: vandalism charge. Another fourteen year old was sent there for

854
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: the crime of stealing loose change from unlocked cars to

855
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 1: buy a bag of chips. So that's it. That's that's

856
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: why that kid gets sent to the Glen Mills School,

857
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: not the car. He ain't still at a car. No,

858
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: didn't even break away, just took a change out of it.

859
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: I just needed some quarters, which like, yeah, we can

860
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 1: say isn't ideal behavior, but like I mean, find the kid.

861
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: Let me let me tell you what this place is.

862
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: Like I could quote from a Philadelphia Inquirer article for

863
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: some context on the Glen Mill school where he sends

864
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: a child for stealing spare change. Another teenager was removed

865
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,720
Speaker 1: from Glenn Mills and sent to a state run facility

866
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 1: in two thousand seventeen after counselors stepped on the boy's

867
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: face and broke his jaw so severely it had to

868
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: be wired shut. And last summer, two counselors were caught

869
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 1: up using a Philadelphia teenager on surveillance video. One slammed

870
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: him to the floor and choked him, then the other

871
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: punched the seventeen year old in the face. Both were

872
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 1: later arrested. So that's I feel like kind of ship

873
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: that happens in Glenn Mills. I feel like you just said,

874
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 1: stepped on his face. Yep, that's what you say, right, yeah, yeah,

875
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: because yeah, yeah, And these are two, these are a

876
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: couple of cases, but like it happens so constantly that

877
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: in two thousand, nineteen, Glenn Mills has its license revoked

878
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: and the state removes all children from its custody. Now,

879
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: Glenn Mills had been founded in eighteen twenty six. Um, so,

880
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: judge Ceverrell as a monster. I'm sure this place has

881
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 1: been about that bad for in their defense in the

882
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: eighteen hundred's, you could step on a kid's face. Yeah

883
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: you could. It was almost mandatory. Yeah, um Now, And

884
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: it's one of those things. And when you read articles

885
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: about like the fallout from the cast the Cash for

886
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 1: Kids scandal, there's a bunch of like comments from judges

887
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 1: and other people in the criminal justice system being like,

888
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 1: these men did tremendous damage to the criminals, to trust

889
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: in the criminal justice system, to the sanctity of the courts,

890
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: to the sanctity of justice. It's like, these guys are

891
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 1: pieces of ship. But dude, yeah, like, don't don't try

892
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: to don't try to bro like, come on now, we's no,

893
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: I mean, we're bad, but we don't try to give

894
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: me that ship man. Yeah, you're good. And the reality

895
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,399
Speaker 1: is that all of the horrible things we've talked about,

896
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: he only got in trouble for because he took bribes

897
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: to do them. If he had just done this because

898
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: he was a piece of ship and he was willing

899
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: to do he did a lot of it for without

900
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: getting brought um. If he just hadn't taken the bribes,

901
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: he never would have gotten for this ship. Um And

902
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: in fact, the hellish sentences he's a he imposed on

903
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 1: children for minor what you could only often loosely describe

904
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 1: as crimes were lauded and celebrated by his community for years.

905
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: In two thousand six, he was reelected for another ten

906
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: year term. Inn pr reports quote. The community applauded him,

907
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: schools applauded him, police applauded him. He would go into

908
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: schools and he would warn kids, if you come before me,

909
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: I will send you away. And so schools invited him

910
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: year after year to come in and talk to them.

911
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: So when a kid came before him and there was

912
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: a school crime, this could be a kid getting into

913
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: a fight, or in our case, we had a kid

914
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 1: who did a fake MySpace page for the principal, he

915
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 1: would say, do you remember me being in your school?

916
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,479
Speaker 1: And he would say, I wish I said, I would

917
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: send you away, get him out of here. And that's

918
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: what it happened. He says, a kid to a fucking

919
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: child prison for making a fake MySpace page. Like an

920
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: administrator at the school, Oh my god, yeah, like a

921
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: fake MySpace page, he said, locks a kid up, he

922
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: gives them a criminal record for a fake fucking MySpace page.

923
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: So this is why. Look, let me listeners, this is

924
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: why were during elections when we hear terms like, oh,

925
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: he's going to be tough on crime, We're like, that's

926
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 1: a dog whistle. This is what we're talking about. Yeah,

927
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 1: it's like, that's what you mean by tough on crime. Yeah,

928
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: like if the kid makes a my Space making fun

929
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: of his principle, I'm tough on crime. Like all right, bro,

930
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: that's what you mean by crime. Just blasting kids lives

931
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: apart for no real reason. But you know who won't

932
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,959
Speaker 1: destroy the lives of children for no good reason. Can't

933
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: say you can't say that because it could be a

934
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: Washington State Washington State Highway patrol. I was like, I

935
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: don't know, man, I can pretty much guarantee and that

936
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: high possibility. One time we had a little FBI could

937
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 1: be the FBI, or it could be I mean even worse,

938
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: it could be UM one of those the food box

939
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: companies that uses their profits to hunt children for sports.

940
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: One you really don't like. Um, I don't know which

941
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: one I think you hate. Oh, they're the ones who

942
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 1: have the the island where you can hunt, hunt, hunt

943
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 1: kids for sport, right seriously in Ada that yeah, ah,

944
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: we're back. Ah. Those are some good ads for um.

945
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:42,399
Speaker 1: Absolutely Now fifty prop of children who appeared before Judge

946
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: c Evarella did so without a lawyer. He remanded an

947
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: average of three hundred children per year into custody, which

948
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: is nearly obviously one a day. When you factor in vacations,

949
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 1: it probably is about one a day. In the years

950
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 1: before he made the deal with p A Childcare, Cfarella

951
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 1: had remanded about four percent of the juveniles in his

952
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,359
Speaker 1: to criminal custody. As soon as he starts getting paid,

953
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: it goes to because this is very obvious. Some of

954
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: the offenses that he locked kids up for included es

955
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 1: stated making a face fake MySpace page. Other kids were

956
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: jailed for stealing a four dollar jar of nutmeg or

957
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 1: throwing a sandal at a parent. Right, yeah, why would

958
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 1: you not laugh if you were a judge, You're like

959
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: a sandal at the kid that the kids should have

960
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 1: is the judge should throw a sandal at just throw

961
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: a sandal at him. That is absurd. Also, uh Jen's ears.

962
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: Let me tell you what my space is. My space

963
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:51,399
Speaker 1: was when the Internet was innocent, and it was one

964
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 1: of the precursors to it was a social media page.

965
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 1: That's when some guy named Tom tricked all of us

966
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: into learning to learning how to come If Facebook, if

967
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: imagine if Facebook hadn't destroyed civil society, that was. Yeah,

968
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 1: it's popular for a while. Some people found some good

969
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 1: bands because of it, and the guy who found it

970
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: got six hundred million dollars and disappeared. It is like

971
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 1: it is not mired in any way in any of

972
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: the never changed picture, never changed his profile picture, And

973
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: so far there hasn't been any self indulgent documentaries, hasn't

974
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: said shit. Just what proves he's the only one of

975
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: them who's a reasonable person Because a reasonable person gets

976
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: six million dollars and it disappears. Yeah, and I'm gone. Yeah. Um.

977
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: Siavarella told one kid during sentencing to count the number

978
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: of birds on the window sill outside the courtroom. He

979
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: gave the boy one month and detention for each bird

980
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,919
Speaker 1: sitting outside the courtroom, Like that's the kind of shift

981
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,760
Speaker 1: he's doing because he's like it's sad fun for himself,

982
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah because the kid I got a lawyer, Yeah,

983
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: because getting out of what who do? Yeah, what's he

984
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 1: gonna do? Complained to someone that yeah, yeah, a kid

985
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 1: can't be like I feel like this, I feel like

986
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 1: that's not legal. I feel like you can't do that.

987
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:20,399
Speaker 1: Yeah kid, yeah, maybe three dollars. In interviews during this period,

988
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 1: Siavrella was very open about how severe he could be.

989
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 1: He told one journalist quote, my experience has been if

990
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: you bring a child and who broke the law and

991
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:30,800
Speaker 1: put him on probation, chances are he'll be back in

992
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: the system in a short period of time. If a

993
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: child believes the consequence will be anything other than placement,

994
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 1: they don't care. I have to find consequences that will

995
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: get their attention. Now, obviously, we know statistically that like

996
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 1: the worst thing you can do if you want kids

997
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 1: to not go on to go to prison is locked

998
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: them up with their kids. Yeah, there's that has a

999
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 1: massive correlation with them being locked up as adults. But whatever, Yeah,

1000
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: there's that. Also. Also, let me throw in this thing

1001
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: about probation. Why kids go ac Because if you say

1002
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: part of your probation is you can have no interaction

1003
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: with anyone from your former life or anyone who's involved

1004
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,839
Speaker 1: in any sort of criminal or gang activity. But if

1005
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: that person is your fucking brother, Like, where do you so?

1006
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 1: Do I need to move out? Like? What do you

1007
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: so if you catch me with my uncle who just

1008
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: sent me to go get some groceries, I violated probation.

1009
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 1: I guess I'm going back to prisoner, you know what

1010
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So, like even the probation stuff like food's

1011
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 1: going back. It's like, that's so I have to move.

1012
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,800
Speaker 1: What you're saying is if I go back home and

1013
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: and the probation officer pull up and I'm literally just

1014
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: sitting on my porch, you know what I'm saying, and

1015
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 1: the person who's sitting across street, who just checking the mail,

1016
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: just happens to be from the same hood I'm from.

1017
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,439
Speaker 1: I broke my probation. I'm going back to prison. Yeah,

1018
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 1: It's yeah, It's like it's very difficult for to not

1019
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 1: wind up in that situation. It's yeah, yeah, And that's

1020
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: it's that's why I would suppose us to be um Now,

1021
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:05,240
Speaker 1: Judge sever Will explained in an interview to another reporter, quote,

1022
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: school is a place for kids to go and learn.

1023
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,320
Speaker 1: Two percent of kids at school should not ruin it

1024
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 1: for the other ninety percent, anyone who gets in the

1025
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: way of that, I don't have a problem sending them away.

1026
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 1: Which is I can't think of how many times I

1027
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 1: heard logic like this from like adults in my life

1028
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, that like, well, you just

1029
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,719
Speaker 1: got to get rid of those kids who are are

1030
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: disrupting everyone else, as opposed to like, well maybe you

1031
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: could figure out what's going on in different Well you're

1032
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:30,439
Speaker 1: the red Mustang to take care of them or whatever.

1033
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: But no, that's not you're about the red Mustang. No,

1034
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 1: that's a similar to like the broken window theory. It's

1035
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: like the red Mustang is like, well, if any of

1036
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 1: us are speeding on the road and you're driving a Prius,

1037
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: like nobody notices, but if you're speeding and you're a

1038
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 1: red Mustang and everybody's gonna catch you speeding. So that

1039
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 1: kid who always got them outbursts, who always got well,

1040
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 1: you're a red Mustang, man, Like, everybody's gonna see what

1041
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: you're doing. So like if you so you're to them,

1042
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 1: and if airbody sees it, everybody sees you speed, and

1043
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 1: then all little priuss think that they can speed. So

1044
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: then that's how they du these kids. Man. It's yeah, yeah,

1045
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 1: almost punched. An administrator was making that analysis once. I

1046
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 1: was like, Yo, I'm you're looking at me like I'm

1047
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 1: twenty three years old as when I first started teaching.

1048
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm twenty three, So I'm looking at you

1049
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: like you're talking about me, like I'm that kid, Like

1050
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: what the now, I'm good, I can't work here. Yeah. Yeah,

1051
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's it's awesome. I mean because because they're

1052
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: not thinking about it as like I'm going I I

1053
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 1: think we should be destroying the lives of children and

1054
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: continning them to a life of what, in many cases

1055
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: is very close to slavery. They're thinking like, well, this

1056
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 1: is it's tough love. This is how it's the same

1057
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: attitude towards like, well, yeah, sometimes you gotta smack a

1058
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: kid around, you know, sometimes you've got to, like you

1059
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: have to, you have to be harsh with children, otherwise

1060
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: they'll they'll grow into two monsters. Yeah, which that's analysis

1061
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 1: than we could do. Yeah, Yeah. I even told a

1062
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: kid who came out of Julvie that ended up in

1063
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: my class. I told him that theory. But I told

1064
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 1: him in the theory in the sense that, like, these

1065
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: people are gunning for you, you know what I'm saying.

1066
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 1: So I'm like, like, stay close, Homi, Like just in

1067
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: the sense of like I'm trying to like I'm trying

1068
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: to protect you from this, you know what I'm saying,

1069
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: Like a matter of fact, like the Jevie you came

1070
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 1: from I used to work at before I worked here.

1071
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: So I'm like, I'm trying to tell you, bro, you

1072
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: don't you ain't trying to go back, right, They're gunning

1073
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: for you. This is the way they think of you.

1074
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 1: They think of you like this, bro. Man, I'm I'm

1075
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: I'm so read more. Yeah, yeah, um so the Yeah,

1076
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,919
Speaker 1: it's it's it's pretty bad. This is a pretty bad

1077
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: scheme that these guys have. And again, it would have

1078
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: been perfectly legal if they hadn't been taking bribes. Nothing

1079
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: about these horrible you see in all the coverage, these

1080
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 1: like horrible cases that I've just related to you, They

1081
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: go to the tail about them, but they really note

1082
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 1: that like and it would have been fine if they

1083
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: hadn't taken kick. Those aren't crying, Yeah, crimes. You can

1084
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: be sad the children as you want as a judge,

1085
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: it's fine. The scheme fell apart because in two thousand seven,

1086
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: the parent of a child being railroaded by the judge

1087
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: placed a call to the Juvenile Law Center of Pennsylvania.

1088
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 1: Uh and these people rule. They started to investigate and

1089
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: found that kids regularly appeared in front of the judge

1090
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: without any lawyer of their own. And again, this is

1091
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: something he gets in trouble for. It's something you can say,

1092
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: like he doesn't have a legal right to do, but

1093
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 1: he had done stuff like the campaign add that he

1094
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: couldn't technically do. They've not been trouble for this if

1095
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: it hadn't have been for the bribes. I don't think.

1096
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: I think it's really unlikely. Um, they noted. So these

1097
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 1: the Juvenile Law Center looks into him, and they noticed

1098
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,439
Speaker 1: that he's got this tendency. Kids are showing up without

1099
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: a lawyer, and he's got a tendency to very quickly

1100
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: make declare children guilty and take them away from their parents.

1101
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 1: So they petition the State Supreme Court in two thousand

1102
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 1: and eight to vacate these judgments, and the court denies them.

1103
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: So again, if it hadn't have been for the bribery,

1104
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: the court like already proved, if it hadn't been for

1105
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: the bribery, he probably would have been fine. Fine. The

1106
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 1: thing that destroys him is that in two thousand six,

1107
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: so two years before the Juvenile Law Center starts their

1108
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: investigation and makes this petition, the FBI gets a tip

1109
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: about the fact that he's being bribed from somebody who

1110
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: works in and around him. Right, finally, one of these

1111
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: fucking people because everyone knows what's more or less what's happening.

1112
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: They don't know for a fact about the bribe. But

1113
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: like he buys a yacht. He and Judge Conahan have

1114
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: these mansions next to each other. They've got like, yeah,

1115
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: they're like living judges. Don't aren't poor people? Right, Like

1116
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 1: you're taking care of but like they're living out of

1117
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: their means walking here with a role got the role

1118
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 1: ons like up guys like yo, when you get that

1119
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 1: rolex you know, I mean works from overtime Like what yeah, bam, yeah,

1120
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: where you get that role judge overtime? Yeah? Yeah, you

1121
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,439
Speaker 1: get judges there's noose things judge overtime. Gee, here's those

1122
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 1: zinc so he uh so, somebody um gives the FBI

1123
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 1: a tip um and they do an invest diigation. And

1124
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, the same year that the

1125
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: State Supreme Court denies this petition, the FBI charges him

1126
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: um and they come out with like you know, they

1127
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: it's the same thing we've seen with the Capital. You

1128
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 1: get this big charging document that has all of the

1129
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: things the state is accusing them of. Um. They accuse

1130
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: c la and Conahan of quote, ordering juveniles to be

1131
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: sent to these facilities and which judges had a financial

1132
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 1: interest even when juvenile probation officers did not recommend placement. Now,

1133
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: a flurry of press coverage and investigations followed. Here's the

1134
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: Juvenile Justice Center quote. The scope of the violations of

1135
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 1: the children's rights in Luzerne County turned out to be

1136
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: more egregious than anyone could have imagined. From two thousand

1137
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: three to two thousand eight, the Luzerne County judicial corruption

1138
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: scandal altered the lives of more than twenty five hundred

1139
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 1: children and involved more than six thousand cases. Over fifty

1140
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: percent of the children who appeared before Crella lacked legal representation.

1141
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: Sixty percent of these children were removed from their homes.

1142
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 1: Many of them were sent to one or both of

1143
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: the two facilities the center of the corruption scandal, believed

1144
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 1: to be the largest judicial corruption scandal in our history.

1145
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: This is like a lot of lives that these guys

1146
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: just nuke. I mean, and and those numbers are pretty stark.

1147
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 1: So Judge Conahan, Uh, the guy who says his dad

1148
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 1: beat him and you know, is an alcoholic. As soon

1149
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: as the the FBI starts gunning for them and there's

1150
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:21,439
Speaker 1: charging documents, he is smarter than his partner. He's like, yep,

1151
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: I did it. You know what, you don't have to

1152
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:26,959
Speaker 1: take me to court. I plead guilty, right, which saves

1153
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 1: the government a lot of money. And as a general rule,

1154
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: that's part of why if you plead. And this is

1155
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: problematic too because oftentimes they use this to like funk

1156
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 1: people over and like give people charges that maybe they

1157
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't have if they went to court. But you kind

1158
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 1: of take well, better to take a guarantee, maybe go

1159
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: away for ten years. If this actually goes to write

1160
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 1: in this case, it's fine. Um, he's he's absolutely guilty.

1161
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: He pleads guilty, he gets like eleven years. Robert Miracle, um,

1162
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: who's the guy who's the builder, gets like gets like

1163
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 1: a year or so, so does Robert Powell. So everyone

1164
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 1: involved pleads guilty and goes away except for Judge ci Evarella,

1165
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 1: who decides he's not gonna plead guilty. He denies he

1166
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 1: did anything wrong, and he demands to take it to

1167
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: trial and fight his charges. And he's the one that

1168
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 1: he's the one that like came from the struggle. He's

1169
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: the trigger man. Yeah, and he's he's the guy who

1170
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 1: grew up poor too. Okay, this is all adding up

1171
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 1: because like, if you know you call for money, you

1172
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 1: know how to play the game you like. Listen, dude,

1173
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 1: Yeah I'm guilty. Also, as a side note, for anybody

1174
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: who's in any sort of like romantic relationships, take the

1175
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: advice at a rich dude, just take the L. Listen

1176
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 1: when you if you wrong, you know you're wrong, just

1177
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 1: take the L. You know a baby, love baby, my bad.

1178
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 1: You are right. Comprehensively good advice. It is comprehensively good advice.

1179
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: The L. Just take the L. Guys, So Judge c

1180
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: Evererella does not do this, Um, and he makes it

1181
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 1: very public. He's he's constantly while his trial is going on,

1182
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: he's up in front of the press as often as possible.

1183
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 1: He defends himself by saying this to journalists about the

1184
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 1: bribes that he took. This was a finder's fee. We

1185
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 1: needed this center built. I was always yelling at kids

1186
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 1: because that's what they needed, because parents didn't know it

1187
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 1: to be parents and so forth. So what's the big

1188
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 1: deal now, I mean, everybody was celebrating me all these years,

1189
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,040
Speaker 1: so now they're not happy with me anymore, just because

1190
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:24,439
Speaker 1: I took this money finders fee. This was a finder's fee.

1191
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 1: Fan this commission, y'all talking about bribes. It was a

1192
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 1: finder's fee, y'all talking about how dangerous the streets of

1193
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 1: Philadelphia are. I don't clean these streets, and now you've

1194
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 1: got a problem making a little money off it. Dang,

1195
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 1: it's very funny. So he gets convicted UM sentence to

1196
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 1: like twenty eight years in prison. Now Conahan also gets

1197
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 1: like eleven years or something like that, a pretty significant

1198
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 1: sentence UM. But after he's in prison a few years,

1199
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen hit. These guys get like convicted and like

1200
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 1: two eight nine UM COVID nineteen hits you know, a

1201
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 1: decade or so later and con Hand gets compassionate leave

1202
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 1: to go live with his wife under house arrest. Right,

1203
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 1: So he's like he's in a back in his mansion

1204
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 1: with his wife. He does his time, but like a

1205
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: little early UM, Judge c Evarella is still in incarcerated UM,

1206
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 1: and he's he's appealed constantly. He continues to protest his

1207
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 1: conviction sentence, and he's asked, he asks to be set

1208
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 1: free as a result of COVID. And I want to

1209
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 1: quote from an article in The Times Leader about his

1210
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 1: judge's response to him asking to get out early. Chief

1211
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 1: US District Judge Christopher C. Connor acknowledged that these are

1212
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: compelling reasons for compassionate release, but still denied it, saying

1213
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 1: that Sieverrella continues to fail to acknowledge the seriousness of

1214
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 1: his conduct, while he now concedes his honest services mail

1215
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 1: fraud and tax fraud charges are serious crimes and are

1216
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 1: not to be taken lightly, Connor writes in his decision,

1217
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 1: he persists in downplaying the overall criminal scheme and his

1218
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 1: role within it. Connor goes on to say that the

1219
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: primary need for Sieverrella's lengthy prison sentence is so he

1220
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 1: can reflect on the seriousness of the crime and to

1221
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: promote respect for the law, something which Connor suggests has

1222
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 1: not happened. So I don't know, judges like you still

1223
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: don't get it. Yeah, think about that however you want,

1224
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 1: right not, But but I'm glad he's punished for it.

1225
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 1: The boy. The boy got to go home with the

1226
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 1: ankle bracelet. The other homy that tried to fight is like,

1227
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 1: no ni yaka sit in there day, yeah, and kind

1228
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: of handles some time, and it's like you an't think

1229
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 1: about him getting led out early however you want. Severel

1230
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 1: is the one who is doing the direct rm um,

1231
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 1: the most direct arm at least they both are doing

1232
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 1: direct harm. Siever was the what kind of sentencing the kids?

1233
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 1: You know, what kind of prison is that? Do you know?

1234
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:38,959
Speaker 1: Like what kind of prison they're in? I think it's

1235
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:40,920
Speaker 1: gonna be a federal prison, right, because yeah, it's a

1236
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 1: federal prison. It's it's probably a nicer federal prison. I

1237
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 1: would That's what I was going to say. I was like, yes,

1238
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 1: it's not the worst of them, but I don't know,

1239
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: can't put no judge and you know, like g pop.

1240
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, be careful with that guy

1241
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: so he doesn't get you know, murdered. Yeah, he ain't

1242
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 1: doing not of time. He goes that time going done

1243
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 1: real quick. But a judge and there with general population

1244
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,960
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, um but yeah that's the cash for kids scandal.

1245
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god, dude. Good stuff. Uh triggered, reminded of

1246
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 1: a lot of things and bad. I feel like to

1247
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 1: describe this is the type of stuff that like I

1248
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 1: I find so like, how do I say this refreshing

1249
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 1: in the sense that like it's telling the rest of

1250
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 1: the world like, see, we're not crazy. I'm not making

1251
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 1: this stuff up when we say bigger. It's like I

1252
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: don't have two hours to explain to you that the

1253
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 1: system is broken or that it's corrupt and just well,

1254
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 1: if you were not guilty, then you have nothing to

1255
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 1: worry about, like to explain why that's the dumbest shit

1256
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 1: I've ever heard. It's like, listen, this is what I'm

1257
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 1: trying to tell you, Like fools get sent to jail

1258
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 1: on dumb shit because there's money to be made, is

1259
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say. You know what I'm saying

1260
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 1: and it's like this they got in trouble because it

1261
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,920
Speaker 1: was obvious other judges make money doing this ship. They

1262
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,599
Speaker 1: just don't take a direct payment from a dude because

1263
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 1: that's stupid. Because they're smarter, they get consulting fees, they

1264
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 1: get like side jobs where they're like working for this

1265
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:26,519
Speaker 1: company or giving advice or like helping to do Like

1266
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:30,600
Speaker 1: there's ways everyone it's the same way with like Congressman,

1267
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 1: the dumb ones take a pile of cash for something.

1268
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 1: The smart ones quit and get a highly paid job

1269
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: as a consultant, right, Like there's yeah, there's so many

1270
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 1: other people profit from doing the same thing that these

1271
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:45,280
Speaker 1: guys got caught because they were stupid as shit, and

1272
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 1: they still were able to people lives, you know, at

1273
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 1: least for a while. Hopefully as many of them as

1274
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 1: possible recovered, but you know, not all it. Obviously it's

1275
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 1: hard to come back, mamselves, right, Like, yeah, it's hard

1276
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 1: to come back, dude, It's hard hard to come back. Yeah, yeah, thanks, right,

1277
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:07,160
Speaker 1: thanks for On Thursday, we're talking about the Texas criminal

1278
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 1: justice system. That's the bastard is the Texas juvenile Yeah,

1279
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:17,760
Speaker 1: so check back in Thursday. Um, and I don't know.

1280
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 1: Go hug a cat. Yeah, what are we doing? Is

1281
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 1: it a live show, Sophie. Yeah, February seventeen, Foo February

1282
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:28,120
Speaker 1: seventeen and the episode description you could click the link,

1283
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 1: but it's it's Momenthouse dot com slash behind the Bastards.

1284
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 1: It's the three of us doing a live stream show

1285
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:38,760
Speaker 1: and you watch it wherever you want to. It'll be

1286
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 1: live for a little while too, So if you can't

1287
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 1: do six pm Pacific, you can do it on demand. Yeah,

1288
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:53,040
Speaker 1: any other time. Yeah, that'll check it out. And uh

1289
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:55,600
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I got a novel you can, Yeah, you do.

1290
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 1: You can google After the Revolution a k Press. If

1291
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,560
Speaker 1: you preorder it out you get as signed copy. It

1292
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:03,640
Speaker 1: will come out in May, so go go buy that.

1293
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 1: You get a book too, don't you? Mr prop I do, man,

1294
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 1: you can call me Ernest slimming Way. You know what

1295
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. Uh yeah, poetry book called Terraform Propy

1296
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,760
Speaker 1: pop dot com. Come grab that book is poetry and

1297
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 1: short story. I think it's dope, Sophie. Gotta signed copy,

1298
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? Good stuff? Yeah, check it

1299
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 1: out and go go check us back out on Thursday

1300
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: where it will be sad again. Bam