1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: Under Hoover's time, You've got this kind of communist scare. 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,319 Speaker 1: Bombs are going off, riots in the street. By any 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: means necessary, you try to quash that threat. What's going 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: on now in college campuses? As a government, we're not 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: accepting free speech? Am I a fan of violence? 6 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: No? 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Have I worked cases against Hamas a proven terrorist organization? Absolutely? 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: They are cold blooded evil. Have I seen any evidence 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: that the people who are being grabbed by masked men 10 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: on campus are Hamas? No? I haven't, so. I worry 11 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: that we're you know, we're going back. We're going back. 12 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 3: The A building Episode seven, co Intel. 13 00:00:50,400 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 4: Pro I want to smoke. Nah, I quit a year ago. 14 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, me too. 15 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: You know those things supposedly killed Edward R. 16 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 4: Morrow. 17 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, he did a bunch of stories about cigarettes 18 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 5: and cancer. 19 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 3: He died because he. 20 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 4: Was a socialist. Okay, Dan, where the hell are we going? 21 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 2: The work of an FBI agent is surprisingly bureaucratic. Files, names, dates, 22 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 2: phone numbers, stakeouts. The two agents you just heard are 23 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 2: delivering warnings, warnings to families. Scenarios like the scenes in 24 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 2: this episode were commonplace. No one is knocking talks. They 25 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: were a method of intimidation within the FBI in the 26 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: era of Gagar Hoover. He's quoted as saying, it's always 27 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: practical to go after the family. That's where it can 28 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: hurt the most. 29 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 6: Hello, can I help you? 30 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 7: Well? 31 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 5: Hello, my name is and this is my partner. These 32 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 5: are my credentials. We're sorry to bother you. How are 33 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 5: you this morning? 34 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 3: You're with who? 35 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: The Federal Bureau of Investigation. 36 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 4: We have some news about your son. 37 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: First of all, is this your son? 38 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 4: Let's show her the. 39 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 2: Picture any day now, I know, I know? 40 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 5: Hold it, damn it, Walter Johnson? 41 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 3: This him? 42 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: Yes? 43 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 3: What is this? Do you know who h. 44 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 5: Rap Brown is? Ma'am? Walter has been spending a lot 45 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 5: of time at his shop in Atlanta. 46 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 3: I've seen the name in the paper. 47 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 5: Bad stuff, missus Johnson. These are real radical negroes, the 48 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 5: worst kind. And we know you don't want this for Walter. 49 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 5: You're a god fearing woman, a Christian woman, a school teacher. 50 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 5: You said, Walter to college after losing your husband in Korea? 51 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 5: And then how does he pay you back by getting 52 00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 5: kicked out of Moorhouse? 53 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 3: Behind this Milton crop? 54 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 4: Is that what you want for him? 55 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 8: Is he in trouble? 56 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: No? 57 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: Not yet. 58 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 3: We just wanted to let you know they get the 59 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: hell off my porch. Jesus Christ. 60 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 4: You'd think they'd be more grateful, and. 61 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: We just delivered the news. 62 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 3: They can do with what they please. Well, maybe she 63 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 3: wants to see Walter through plateglass. 64 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 4: For twenty years. 65 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 3: In the early sixties, a new and powerful voice emerged 66 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 3: and rose quickly in the movement towards racial equality. H 67 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 3: rapped around, had a big voice, and it was getting bigger, 68 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 3: and the FBI took notice. 69 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 7: Lyndon Johnson, you can always raise an argument about law 70 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 7: and order because he never talks about justice. 71 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: But black people. 72 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 7: Fall for that same argument, and they go around talking 73 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 7: about lawbreakers. We did not make the laws in this country. 74 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 7: We'll neither, Marley not legally confined to those laws, those 75 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 7: laws that keep them up keep us. 76 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 3: You got to begin to understand. 77 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: That a new wave of black social justice spread nationwire 78 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 2: like a firestorm. Leaders like Kaimei terray byb Seal, Angela Davis, 79 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 2: Huey P Newton, and Tupac's mother of Phoenie. 80 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 7: Chicour violence is a part of America's culture. It as American, 81 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 7: as Jerry Pye American taught the. 82 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 3: Black people to be violent. 83 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 7: We will use that violin to be it ourselves of oppression. 84 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 7: If necessary, we will be freed by any means necessary. 85 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: Who is this man? And why did the FBI care 86 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 2: so much? H? 87 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 3: Rap Brown born Hubert Gerald Brown on October fourth, nineteen 88 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 3: forty three, in Baton, Rouge, Louisiana, emerged as a significant 89 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 3: figure in the American civil rights movement during the nineteen sixties. 90 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 3: His father, Eddie Charles Senior, worked for ESL Oil, and 91 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 3: his mother, Thelma Warren Brown, was a domestic worker and 92 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 3: elementary school teacher. From an early age, Brown showcased exceptional 93 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 3: verbal skills, earning the nickname Rap. 94 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 2: Brown's activism began in his teenage years, when he moved 95 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 2: to Washington, d c. And joined the Non Volid Action 96 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 2: Group inag a local affiliate of the Student Non Violent 97 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 2: Coordinating Committee SNICK. By nineteen sixty seven, browse seceated Stokely 98 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,799 Speaker 2: Carmichael as a national chairman of SNICK. As chairman, Brown 99 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 2: was known for his fireI rhetorican stock advocacy for black power. 100 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: His speeches often attracted national attention and controversy. 101 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty seven, following a speech in Cambridge, Maryland, 102 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 3: Brown was wounded by gunfire from local police officers. Shortly 103 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 3: after he left the state, a local school building burned down, 104 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 3: leading to accusations against Brown for inciting rights, though the 105 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 3: origins of the fire were disputed. 106 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 2: Brown's legal challenges continued into nineteen seventy when two SNICK 107 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 2: members died in a car explosion in Maryland under unclear circumstances. 108 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: Brown went into hiding for eighteen months, appearing on the 109 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 2: FBI's ten most wanted lists before being arrested in New York. 110 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 2: During his imprisonment, he can ready to Islam and adopted 111 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 2: the name Jamil Abdullah l Aman. 112 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: Look here it is right here. 113 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 4: Oh I see it. 114 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 3: No, I fucking hate Tennessee. Yeah, pulling over there. 115 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 2: It's amazing. 116 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 4: It works so hard to make their houses look normal. 117 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 5: Hello, my name is This is my partner. These are 118 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 5: my credentials. We're sorry to bother you, ma'am. How are 119 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 5: you this morning? 120 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: For the FBI, the expulsions at Morehouse were an opportunity 121 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 2: to curtail this new wave of activism. H Y Brown, 122 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 2: as he was known at the time, was particularly effective 123 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 2: at talking to young people. 124 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 4: Is this your son, Samuel Jackson. 125 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 3: Oh, I haven't seen him at months. 126 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 9: Have a good day, gentlemen. 127 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 5: It wasn't much to him anyway, and it looks like 128 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 5: he's in deep with a smack. 129 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 4: Probably won't hear anything from him. 130 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 3: Oh please, Lord, pick up the phone. Come on, come on, Frankie, Frankie, 131 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 3: is Sam there? 132 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: Where is he? Okay? 133 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 6: Tell him, I'm going to be in Atlanta the day 134 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 6: after tomorrow. 135 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: You understand two days. To understand this, you have to 136 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 2: understand cointel Pro. 137 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 3: The FBI started the program in nineteen fifty six. The 138 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 3: goal was to suffocate interest in the Communist Party of 139 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 3: the United States. The FBI used long form surveillance. The 140 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 3: operations would take months or even years. Co Intel Pro 141 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 3: lacked any due process and often went beyond any jurisdictional standards. 142 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 3: To understand cointel Pro from the FBI's perspective, spoke with 143 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 3: Frank for gluesy. Frank joined the FBI in nineteen eighty 144 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 3: seven and rose to the ranks, eventually being appointed to 145 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 3: the lofty role of Assistant Director for counter Intelligence in 146 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 3: twenty eleven by then Director Robert Muller. He's a regular 147 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 3: expert contributor on NBC and the author of two books, 148 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 3: The FBI Way Inside the Bureau's Code of Excellence and 149 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 3: Long Haul Hunting the Highway serial Killers. And as menm 150 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 3: pointed out, Frank is also a good looking man. 151 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 2: First of all, though Hans isn't Frank right out of 152 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 2: central casting. You're a handsome fella. I'm just saying like this, 153 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 2: if I was casting, you know, we're filmmakers, I would 154 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 2: cast you as the FBI guy. 155 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 3: Let me tell you, you'd be in the big office, Frank. 156 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: Lighting and makeup, lighting and mega. So what was co 157 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: intel pro It stands it's an acronym. It's a code 158 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: word that stands for counterintelligence program. That got my attention 159 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: because I was the head of counter Intelligen just at 160 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: the end of my career. It was a secret program 161 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: to counter all of this so called sedition, instability, protest movement, 162 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: even the violent, especially the violent side of things. And 163 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: what did it consist of? Undercover agents, which, by the way, 164 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: the FBI sucked at in the sixties and early seventies. 165 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,079 Speaker 1: It was a new concept that guys, white guys in 166 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: suits and ties and wingtip shoes were somehow good at 167 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: going undercover in protest movements and developing sources on campus. 168 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: Not good. 169 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 3: Do you think there's anything in the history of the 170 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 3: FBI that had like a seed of this notion of 171 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 3: the politicization of the FBI, like certain communities being suspicious 172 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 3: of the FBI. 173 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: Oh for sure. Look, as they said during Jay Edgar 174 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: Hoover's reign, and I'll say rain in the FBI because 175 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: he was there for over forty years. They he used 176 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: to joke in Washington, if you've seen one FBI director, 177 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: you've seen them all because he was it. 178 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 2: He was it. 179 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: And what does that mean? When you've got that much power, 180 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: you can become politically powerful. And Hoover knew that, and 181 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: he knew that the secret of staying in power was 182 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 1: behind the scenes to gain political influence. And how did 183 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: he do that. He kept files on people, kept files 184 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: on members of Congress, and they feared him. People came 185 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: to fear Hoover in the black community, minority community. Generally, 186 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: when people wield power and rule by fear, you can 187 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: literally terrorize parts of the population. History repeats itself and 188 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: the lessons of the past are sometimes forgotten. If you're 189 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: an evidence based agency like the FBI is right, just 190 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: the facts, man, facts and evidence in law. The agency 191 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: has every opportunity to flush out the so called communist 192 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: threat to America, and you can't find it, or it's 193 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: far less than you. And that was the case, by 194 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: the way, for Hoover, and it was particularly the case 195 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: with MLK, who was viewed by Hoover as a threat. 196 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: And we can talk for hours about trying to get 197 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: inside Hoover's had whether this was largely race racially motivated. 198 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: I think that was a huge part of it. Whether 199 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: or not he truly had the goods on MLK being 200 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: too affiliated with communism, The records we have now available 201 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: to us today show that he couldn't prove it. The 202 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: evidence was not there. Did MLK have associates who were 203 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: present or former Communist Party members? Yes, he had one 204 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: particularly close associate who was a former Communist member that 205 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: sent Hoover into orbit and was used to justify all 206 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: other means. You know, the phrase by any means necessary, 207 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: We align closely with Malcolm X in some of his species. 208 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: By Eddie means necessary, Well, guess what, Jaeger Hoover also 209 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: adopted that, and it did it in a largely unlawful way, 210 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: there's a great scene and this is like in FBI data. 211 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 2: There's a great scene in Malcolm X where this the 212 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 2: night before Malcolm is killed and these two FBI agents 213 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 2: are listening to him talk and he's just sitting in 214 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 2: his hotel calling his wife. 215 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 3: Ask them why they had new concre Do you want 216 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 3: some furniture? 217 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 2: Do you want some cars? We have? 218 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 3: What if we have? Meanwhile? 219 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 2: King was you know, he like he liked the ladies, right, 220 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 2: And these FBI guys are listening and he says to 221 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 2: one guy, compared to King, this guy's a monk. 222 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 1: Right, he didn't do anything right. 223 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: He was He was boring. He offered none of the 224 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 2: salacious details and life that doctor King did. So in 225 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 2: some ways he was a disappointment in terms of what 226 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 2: they could get on him. You know, the FBI considered 227 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: Malcolm XX a massive threat. His file was open in 228 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty six when the Stars characterized Nation of Islam. 229 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 2: As his profile grew nationally, so did his surveillance. His 230 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 2: file would include more than thirty six hundred pays of information. 231 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,599 Speaker 2: They would either follow him overseas. The extent of the 232 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 2: surveillance as far beyond would have documented or published. The 233 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 2: scope of this and the relation to his assassination may 234 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 2: never be uncovered. 235 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: Kennedy was briefed by Hoover on what he was doing 236 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: with Martin Luther King. Richard Nixon had been briefed on 237 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: what the plan was for the Black Panthers. You know, 238 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: we can't pretend that this was all about a rogue 239 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: FBI director. 240 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 2: It was not. 241 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: It was an administration that was held bent on keeping 242 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: people quiet. 243 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 3: That's amazing because I feel like when I was in college, 244 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 3: I would hear people talk about Hotel pro and it 245 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 3: sounded like a conspiracy theory against the government. Like it 246 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 3: sounded like that's what you know, your high uncle would. 247 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: Say, yeah, or some he had a barbershop or something. 248 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 3: Or someone had a barbershop. And it wasn't until much 249 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 3: later that I realized that co Intel Probe was real 250 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 3: in it and it actually existed. And I always feel like, 251 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 3: even even doing this podcast, and some of the older 252 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 3: black folks are a little bit hesitant to even to 253 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 3: just fully talk because there's there seems to be this 254 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 3: still this through line of the poyancy and paranoia about 255 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 3: this program. 256 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of good came out of the exposure 257 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: of this program in terms of setting out attorney general guidelines, 258 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: there was a huge congressional inquiry called the Church Committee. 259 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: Because the congress members started it was Frank Church, and 260 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: they were blown away. They they thought, you know, from 261 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: the media reporting, they thought they had pretty much the 262 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: four corners of the co intel program figured out. And 263 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: then here here comes this parade of witnesses that starts 264 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: talking about illegal wire taps, breaking into people's homes without warrants, 265 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: planting evidence, take King evidence, bugging phones, planting microphones. And 266 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: they were like, you had got to be kidding me. 267 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: So and by the way, this this certainly extended to 268 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: to Martin Luther King personally in terms of bugging him 269 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: without without legal process. 270 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 7: Uh. 271 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: And they were blown away. And so a lot of 272 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: guidelines and laws and rules came into place. And now 273 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: I truly fear and least by the way we're drilled 274 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: into our heads, uh in the FBI. I mean, the 275 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: notion that some supervisor would tell you to do an 276 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: illegal wiretap or something. You know, it just simply isn't 277 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: going to happen. But I have to tell you we 278 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: may have come full circle because this this concept of 279 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: you know, going after your your political enemies, going after 280 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: perceived threats, I think is taking on a new life. 281 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 3: He is more from our conversation with Frank Faguzzi, former 282 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 3: de he director of the FBI. 283 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: So Malcolm and Dice Furst and not the king assassinated 284 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 2: in that period in the early seventies, what were some 285 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 2: of the biggest concerns for the FBI. 286 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: The biggest concern while Hoover was nearing the end and 287 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: even after his demise, was we're going to get caught 288 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: at this. We were in trouble. And when does Hoover 289 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: when is his raigning nine seventy two he poss I believe. 290 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: And now people are panicked at FBI headquarters and even 291 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: in certain field offices because they know there's there's accountability coming. 292 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: And in fact, there were moves to indict even with 293 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: regard to a Watergate cover up. L Patrick Gray, who 294 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: had been named acting FBI director after Hoover, he was 295 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: they were moving him toward indictment with all these what 296 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: they call black bag jobs, that's what they were called, 297 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: where you would go into someone's home without a warrant 298 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: and do a search, planting mics or taking evidence or 299 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: planting evidence. This stuff was illegal and in many cases, 300 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: and they were afraid they were going to prison, and 301 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: there was a movement afoot to actually put FBI executives 302 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 1: in prison. So that was their first concern, getting caught 303 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: and then covering it up, and then getting caught about 304 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: the cover up, and then you know, there was much 305 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: discussion about how to whether or not to destroy files, 306 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: particularly about MLK. So, for example, Hoover's famous secretary had 307 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: control of a safety that had what were called the 308 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: obscene files or yeah, I think they were known as 309 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: the obscene files, and they included files on congressmen and 310 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: it's about seventeen congressmen allegedly and MLK. And these included 311 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: wire taps or bugs placed in his hotel rooms when 312 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,959 Speaker 1: he traveled. He traveled a lot, and they, yeah, they 313 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: allegedly can tained evidence of extramarital affairs the WIRESAFS led 314 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: to a last ditch effort. And this is how we 315 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: need to perceive this. By the way, you have the 316 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: premier law enforcement agency in the country. They have tried 317 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: every which way to flesh out this communist threat with 318 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: around MLK and the Black movement. They've been unsuccessful. I 319 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: mean even to the point where there's there's a memo 320 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 1: I've seen from the head of the San Francisco Field 321 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: office regarding the Black Panthers. Hoover had put out the word, 322 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: we've got to smash the Black Panthers. They got to go, 323 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: and he again he saw them as a threat. And 324 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: the head of the San Francisco says, Boss, We've taken 325 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: a hard look at this, and the worst thing we've 326 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: caught the panthers doing here in our city is feeding 327 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 1: breakfast to inner city kits. That's what we've got. And 328 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: he was pissed by that response. And by the way, 329 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: when did the real emphasis in the FBI of going 330 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: after King really kick in? He had his eye have 331 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: I have a dream speech on the National Mall. 332 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 3: I have a dream. 333 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 10: That one day. 334 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 11: This nation will rise up, live out the true meaning 335 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 11: of its creeds. We hold these choos to be self evident, 336 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 11: that all men are created. 337 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: This nineteen sixty three, sixty three thank you. That is 338 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: when literally William Sullivan, who was that then the deputy 339 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: director of the FBI, says to Hoover, that's enough. This 340 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: guy has too much power and influence, and oh yeah, 341 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: he's black. We've got to pull out the stops. That 342 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: really got the FBI's attention was that I have a 343 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 1: dream speech that he could pour people into the National Mall. 344 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: So then the excerpt of the of the Bug transcript 345 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: doesn't work. So they decide they're going to write a letter, 346 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: and by all accounts it's trafted by this guy, William 347 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: Sullivan FBI. A course, there's no way in terms of 348 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: way the FBI works, that that kind of letter would 349 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: be drafted and sent without Jay Garhoover's approval. Just there's 350 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: just no way. So it's sent and essentially, and I paraphrase, 351 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: you are reprehensible, Immral. We're going to expose you and 352 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: your your deviance and you know something like the best 353 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: you know, the best solution for you is to go. 354 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 3: Here are some direct quotes from that letter. 355 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 8: In view of your low grade abnormal personal behavior. I 356 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 8: will not dignify your name with either a mister or 357 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 8: a reverend or a doctor, and your last name calls 358 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 8: to mind only the type of king such as King 359 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 8: Henry the eighth and his countless acts of adultery and 360 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 8: a moral conduct lower than that of a beast king. 361 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 8: Look into your heart. You know you are a complete 362 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 8: fraud and a great liability to all of us. Negro 363 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 8: white people in this country have enough frauds of their own, 364 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 8: but I am sure that they don't have one at 365 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 8: this time that is anywhere near your equal. You are 366 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 8: no clergyman, and you know it. I repeat, you are 367 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 8: a colossal fraud, and an evil, vicious one at that. 368 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 8: You cannot believe in God and act as you do. 369 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 8: Clearly you don't believe in any personal moral principles. King, 370 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 8: Like all frauds, your end is approaching. Your honorary degrees, 371 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 8: your nobel prize, what a grim farce, and other rewards 372 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 8: will not save you. King, I repeat, you are done. 373 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 8: No person can overcome facts, not even a fraud like yourself. 374 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 8: Lend your sexually psychotic ear to the enclosure. It is 375 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 8: all there on the record, your sexual orgies. Listen to yourself, 376 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 8: you filthy, abnormal animal. You are all the record. You 377 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 8: have been on the record, all your adulterous acts, your 378 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 8: sexual orgies, extending far into the past. This one is 379 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 8: but a tiny sample. The American public. The church organizations 380 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 8: that have been helping Protestant, Catholic and Jews will know 381 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 8: you for what you are, an evil, abnormal beast. 382 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 3: You are done, King. 383 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 8: There is only one thing left. 384 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: For you to do. 385 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 2: You know what it is. 386 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 8: You have just thirty four days in which to do this. 387 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 8: This exact number has been selected for a specific reason. 388 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 8: It has definite practical significance. 389 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 3: You are done. 390 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 8: There is but one way out for you. You better 391 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 8: take it before your filthy, abnormal, fraudulent self is bare 392 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 8: to the nation, and the implication. 393 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: Cleary that it's time to commit suicide. That's about one 394 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: of the more horrific things I think in FBI history, 395 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: quite honestly. 396 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 2: In addition to this letter, the FBI sent audio tapes 397 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 2: to doctor King and his wife Coretta. This will literally 398 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 2: be known as the blackmail package. The direct undertone of 399 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 2: the letter seems to suggest that doctor King should kill 400 00:22:55,119 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 2: himself before receiving the historic Mobil Peace Prize. Pro wanted 401 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 2: to destroy personal relationships and family. This was a critical 402 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 2: tactic in the process. 403 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 3: Do you think that with the intelligence gathering that the 404 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 3: FBI had during this time period, when we think about 405 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 3: leaders like Medigar, Evers, King, Malcolm, do you think the 406 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 3: FBI is aware of real threats to those leaders? 407 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: So I'll caveat this first by saying I don't have 408 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: direct documented evidence of this, but I'll then quickly go 409 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: into the reality of life in the FBI those days, 410 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: which was it was all about targeting these perceived threats 411 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: and as we said, developing sources literally that will point 412 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: you to how to how to assassinate a Black Panther leader, 413 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: getting in and bugging king suggestion he commits suicide. It's 414 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: inconceivable to believe that someone in the bureau was on 415 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: where that people could kill these targets, but it's conceivable 416 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: that the FBI was part and parcel of trying to 417 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: do it. 418 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 3: Paranoia was a key tactic for the FBI. Many informants 419 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,719 Speaker 3: and victims of Conteil pro would be called hysterical by 420 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 3: friends and family about potential surveillance. This process was undoubtedly 421 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 3: critical in the assassination of Fred Hampton in December of 422 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine. 423 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: The FBI, this has been proven in by many historians, 424 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: had a role in the murder of a Black Panther 425 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: leader in Chicago, and they did it through a source 426 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: development that was close to this Black Panther and a 427 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: special unit at the Chicago PD so the FBI didn't 428 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: want to get its hands dirty, but it developed this 429 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: source close to the panther. Then they turned it over 430 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 1: to this special unit as Chicago PD. When the source said, Hey, 431 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: our target is going to be here, asleep in this 432 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: apartment at this time, here comes the Chicago PD unit 433 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: and they they take him out, They shoot him. 434 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 2: Killed him in Cobood. 435 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was Fred Hampton, right, Fred Hampton, And that 436 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: the chief concern was getting caught at. 437 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 2: This This quote comes directly from FBI Director Jay Edgar Hoover. 438 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 2: We must avoid the rise of a messiah that would 439 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 2: unify and electrify the militant nationalist movement. Cointelpro was his brainchild, 440 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 2: and the blunt force and lack of civil liberties came 441 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 2: right from his playbook. 442 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 3: The mental unrest was just as significant as a potential 443 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 3: imprisonment or even loss of life. 444 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 2: Sam Jackson's mother understood this, and when the FBI came 445 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 2: to her door in Tennessee, she got to Atlanta as 446 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 2: fast as she could. 447 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 6: Mama, I don't know if all of this is necessary. 448 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 6: You have had the FBI knock on your door. Come on, mama, 449 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 6: let me ask you again. Have you ever had the 450 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 6: FBI knock on your door. No, no, well, you didn't 451 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 6: see what I saw. You didn't see how nice they were. 452 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 6: You didn't see how they were dressed, holding the little papers, 453 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 6: big folders filled with names, and one of them names 454 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 6: was yours. 455 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 3: Keep your head down and you come back what. 456 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 8: I say the safe? 457 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 2: Oky? 458 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 3: Okay? I love you, I love you too. Sam Jackson 459 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 3: has his own insights into the lengths the government went 460 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 3: to stop the movement beyond contel Pro in the sixties. 461 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 10: The most drastic thing that happened in the summer sixty 462 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 10: nine months, all of a sudden, they took all the 463 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 10: marijuana and all the hallucinogens were taken out of Atlanta, 464 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 10: and the only drug you could buye was a heroin 465 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 10: only drug, you BOYE was heroin and we were drug users, 466 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 10: So we started using hero good planning, get people started 467 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 10: dying off, people started o daying, dying just became you know, useless, 468 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 10: worthless junkies. 469 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:11,239 Speaker 1: Uh. 470 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 10: And that was that was the most effective diffuser of 471 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 10: the revolution that they you know, came up with at worked. 472 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 3: Here's former Morehouse alum and civil rights activist James Early. 473 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 9: I brought a context of this, Uh, that has no 474 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 9: direct relationship to the takeover, but it's again a contextual piece. 475 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 3: So in that period, then heroin hits. 476 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 12: So, you know, one of my running buddies, Morehouse, had 477 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 12: recruited several Puerto Ricans. You know, Morehouse won the national 478 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 12: swimming championship I think for two or three years, and 479 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 12: a small college swimming championship rig Berto Centron who died 480 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 12: of a heroin overdose just a few blocks from campus. 481 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 12: This was a time also around that campus of which 482 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 12: Morehouse was not ready for. And no, you know, most 483 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 12: colleges were not four. 484 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 9: And I can remember three four occasions of you know, 485 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 9: we're looking for that weed. 486 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: We would go to an apartment. 487 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 12: There would be eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve guys, needles 488 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 12: in the arms. 489 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 1: Booting. 490 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 13: Booting is you put the needle in and as the 491 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 13: heroine is almost exhausted me, you boot it back. You 492 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 13: pull the blood back so that you can draw out 493 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 13: as much of the heroin as you can. So this 494 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,959 Speaker 13: was a contextual issue going on in society. The status 495 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 13: quo society. The assumptions, the presumptions of comportment and culture 496 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 13: and whatnot were in the process of dramatic sometimes turbulent change. 497 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 2: Sam would flee to Los Angeles and stay with an aunt. 498 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 2: He would pursue a new found passion for acting, a 499 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 2: passion that grew would assume to be wife with Tagya. 500 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 3: Sam was able to escape, but many Black Americans found 501 00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 3: themselves caught in the web of co intel pro Welcome 502 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 3: back to the A building. Here's more from our conversation 503 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 3: with Frank fig Lucy. I heard a story about a 504 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 3: young woman who around the time, probably about a year 505 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 3: before Fred Hampton was assassinated, was a college student and 506 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 3: they were doing the freedom rides to go down south. 507 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 3: So they would they would train these college students and 508 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 3: they would do the freedom ride and they were they 509 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 3: were holding like these training sessions. The one that she 510 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 3: went to was at Oberlin in Ohio. So she goes 511 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 3: to Oberlin for the summer and when she gets to Oberlin, 512 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,719 Speaker 3: her mother and her older sister were waiting for her 513 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 3: and they were like, you're not doing this, And she 514 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 3: was like, first of all, how did you find out? 515 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 2: You know? 516 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 3: Da da da, And they said, the FBI came to 517 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 3: our house and told us that you were doing this 518 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 3: and that they couldn't protect you if you went down South, 519 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 3: and I hadn't heard a couple stories like that where 520 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 3: the FBI would reach out to the parents of students 521 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 3: to say, hey, they're in this activity and we can't 522 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 3: protect them, be careful, you know, and would enact influence 523 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 3: over the person through family members. Is that something that 524 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 3: that that rains true to you? 525 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: So as a concept, absolutely, you know, does the FBI 526 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: do this kind of thing, Yes, of course, But let's 527 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: try to differentiate between doing it legitimately, like reaching out 528 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: to a family member and trying to prevent a crime, 529 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: or doing what we call a knock and talk. This 530 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,479 Speaker 1: happens all the time. By the way, this didn't get 531 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: a lot of publicity, but just prior to the January 532 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: sixth insurrection at the US Capitol, the FBI, by by 533 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: most accounts that have been verified by not only the 534 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: media but my own sources, the FBI did a knock 535 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: and talk with about a dozen to twenty individuals, hardcore 536 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: people who already were predicated, meaning the FBI already had 537 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: a case open on them, and there had been some 538 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: inkling that they might go to the Capitol. On January sixth, 539 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: They did knock in talks and said something like we're 540 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: onto you, right, and you do this at great risk 541 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: because you're going to blow your case. You're telling the 542 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: guy we know you are, but we've got winds that 543 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: you may be thinking about doing bad things at the Capitol, 544 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: and we're telling you if you get on a plane, train, 545 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: or automobile and start heading that way, that could put 546 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: us over the edge to arrest you based off Well, 547 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: we have already. There's nothing wrong with that kind of 548 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: knock and talk. It happens all the time. But now 549 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: let's go to your scenario at Oberlin knock and talk 550 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: with a family to say, we don't like what your 551 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: daughter or niece is about to do, which is lawful 552 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: activity in aid of a civil rights activism. We don't 553 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: want to happen. That's a problem that's trying to shape 554 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: a national narrative that you know. I think it's way too, 555 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: way too off the off the shark. So what's your reaction. 556 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 2: What was the reaction when you heard about this story 557 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 2: at Morehouse Number one? 558 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,719 Speaker 1: Glad somebody's addressing it, because I have extremely limited knowledge 559 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: of this. I even though by the way, my first office, 560 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: as I said, Atlanta, Georgia and the FBI certainly had 561 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: contact with Morehouse, have fellow FBI agents who went to Morehouse. 562 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: But I think there's there's an insight here. Is is 563 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: it possible that Morehouse is finally getting what what getting 564 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: a goal in place, which is we're going to seriously 565 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: educate our young people. We've got we've got this going 566 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: pretty damn well here, and we don't need any attention 567 00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: from the government, the FBI. We're in the deep South, Atlanta, Georgia, 568 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: and let's kind of not rock this boat. And now 569 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: you have black, bright, black students going not so fast. 570 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: We don't have everything we want, and we're not going 571 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: to be as quiet as you may want us to be, 572 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: and we've got some demands ourselves. I think that that's 573 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: just from the outside looking in. I think that's fascinating. 574 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: I certainly didn't serve in the FBI in Atlanta till 575 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: like nineteen eighty seven, but you know, the concern still 576 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: that I can't emphasize this enough, and I put it 577 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: in my book. I go down there, it's eighty seven. 578 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: I'm from Connecticut. Do you know that I worked cross 579 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: burnings and clan rallies as an FBI agent in Atlanta Georgia. Yeah, 580 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: in the eighties, it was surreal. I'm on the streets 581 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: of downtown Atlanta trying to make sure that blacks aren't 582 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: attacking a clan rally, that the clan doesn't turn on 583 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: the black protest. And by the way, was it this 584 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: black protesters? Thank god? There were a lot of protesters 585 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: at this client rally in Atlanta. But we're like, are 586 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: we And I'm kind of like, what am I doing here? 587 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 7: Am I? 588 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: I know I'm doing this as a civil rights operation? 589 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: Whose civil rights am I protect? It was part of 590 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: the question. And then I'll never forget across burning like 591 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: I think it was Decab County outside of Atlanta, and 592 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: I'm like, this is another what is going on here? 593 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: So why do I mention that? And now go back 594 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: to this incident at Morehouse and imagine what the climate 595 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: is in Atlanta and the desire to not mess up 596 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,320 Speaker 1: what is looking like a good thing Morehouse University and 597 00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: here come these students going no, you know, no, we 598 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 1: got a press. The other takeaway I have is what's 599 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 1: going on now in college campuses, good and bad? And 600 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 1: this is obviously a hot sensitive topic, but all of 601 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: the protests on elite college universities with regard to the 602 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: Palestinian Israeli conflict, right, and people just flipping out our 603 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:31,760 Speaker 1: government literally grabbing people with student visas, even green cards, 604 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: and saying we're taking away your student visa, we're taking 605 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,439 Speaker 1: away your green card, and we're deporting you. In one 606 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: case because a young lady, a Tufts University student, had 607 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: the audacity to write an opinion piece in the school newspaper. 608 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 1: What so you know, it's so I can't. I'm always 609 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: looking at past and present and seeing the connections, and 610 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: right now we as a government, we're not accepting free 611 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: speech on college campus. Am I a fan of violence? 612 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 2: No? 613 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: Have I worked cases against Hamas, a proven terrorist organization. 614 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: Absolutely they are cold blooded evil. Have I seen any 615 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: evidence that the people who are who are being grabbed 616 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: by masked men on campus are Hamas? 617 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 8: No? 618 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 3: I have it. 619 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,439 Speaker 1: So I worry that we're you know, we're going back. 620 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,399 Speaker 1: We're going back when you're under stress. Here's where things 621 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: go south in the bureau and same for all human nature. 622 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: Under Hoover's time, you've got this kind of communist scare. 623 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: Bombs are going off, riots in the street. You know, 624 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: we're not thrilled with black people getting influence and power. 625 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: We're all scared, okay, And what happens by any means necessary, 626 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: you try to quash that threat. What happens in the 627 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: US after nine to eleven? And I was I was 628 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: the number two person in FBI Miami after the terror 629 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,800 Speaker 1: attacks of nine to eleven unprecedented? Right, And do we 630 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: start to see things going south? Are people trying to 631 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: develop sources inside mosques? Yes, NYPD all by themselves had 632 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: a covert program to spy inside mosques. The Patriot Act 633 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: is passed, and some people take that as license to 634 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 1: grab up everybody's phone communications. All kinds of weird things 635 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: are happening. How about Hey, how about torture? How about waterboarding? 636 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: How about the torture to the point where we can't 637 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: even use what you just gave us in court, We've 638 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: got to go military tribunal because it's useless to us. Yeah. So, 639 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: when a society is under stress, things can go bad. 640 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: How do you try to put guardrails up? You have 641 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: the kinds of guardrails that I lived with in my 642 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,879 Speaker 1: twenty five year experience you and you follow them relentlessly, 643 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 1: and you punish those who go outside those guidelines. 644 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 3: Frank, I can't let you. I can't let you talk 645 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 3: to my kid, because if you talk to my kid, 646 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 3: you might convince him to become an FBI convincing. 647 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 2: Tell me a good job, darn it. 648 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 4: I tell you what. 649 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,439 Speaker 1: If it was a year ago, I might have talked 650 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: him into it. I don't. I don't know what to 651 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: tell young people today. 652 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 3: Frank, don't I let you. I let you near My 653 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 3: son is twenty two. I let you near my kid. 654 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 3: Next thing I know, he's got an application in. He's 655 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 3: like that, I'm going on to I live in d C. 656 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 3: So it's just down the road. Training is down down 657 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 3: the road. Like the way you talk about it. Man, 658 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 3: you had me halfway looking like am I little too? 659 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: All? Like we'll sign you up, We'll sign you up. 660 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 3: In November of twenty twenty four, the surviving family of 661 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 3: Malcolm X sued the FBI, the CIA, and the NYPD 662 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 3: for the involvement in his assassination. The trial is still pending. 663 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 3: These ideas were at the heart of the at Moorhouse. 664 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 3: These students wanted their education to mean something in a 665 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 3: world that could fall apart at any moment. The state 666 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 3: could take down icons. 667 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,760 Speaker 2: In this context, the sacrifice of the students at Morehouse 668 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 2: if not only reasonable, but a necessary progression of the 669 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 2: civil rights movement. 670 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 3: The educational landscape would take a major shift in the 671 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 3: next twenty years. The next wave of martyrs would continue 672 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 3: the history of protecting the black home and the black family. 673 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,320 Speaker 2: The Reagan era would introduce radical changes to policing and 674 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 2: drug policy. This would go on to be exacerbated by 675 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety four Crime Bill that would place an 676 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 2: entire generation of black and brown people behind bars for 677 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 2: non violent crimes. 678 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 3: In twenty twenty five, our republic is in scorn. We 679 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 3: must revisit the heroes of our past to defeat the 680 00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 3: cowards of our future. Next time, on the A Building, 681 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 3: the lock in the idea just came from two people, 682 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 3: myself and another brother named Spurge and Smith. 683 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 2: Certainly think there's a risk in protesting Bay, specifically because 684 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:13,720 Speaker 2: the world was burning. 685 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 3: The risk hasn't been this high a long time. They 686 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,240 Speaker 3: came out of it. I'm knocking, huh, class, I demand 687 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,320 Speaker 3: to be released, and I said, I demand as you 688 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 3: get back in now. The A Building is produced by 689 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 3: Imagine Audio for iHeart Podcasts. It is written and hosted 690 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 3: by me, Hans Charles and my co host menelike La Mumba. 691 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 2: It is executive produced by Karl Welker and Nathan Kloke, 692 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 2: me Medelich, Wlamomba and Hans Charles. 693 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 3: Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts ar Katrina Norville and Nikki 694 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,800 Speaker 3: Torre Marketing lead is David Wasserman. 695 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 2: It is produced, directed, and edited by Timothy Fernarra with 696 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 2: producer John Asanti. Sound design and music by Alloy Tracks. 697 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 3: And special thanks to April Ryan, Doctor, Eliot Davis, Kim 698 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,800 Speaker 3: vci Ada, Bobby Know and James Early. If you enjoyed 699 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 3: this episode, be sure to rate and review the A 700 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 3: Building on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts