Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in a fried egg
Speaker 2: Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Friday, fridagg fridagg bride egg Lie,
Speaker 2: I'm about ready to run off of the hup course.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg Podcast.
Speaker 2: Today I am joined by Ian Gilly. Ian is the
Speaker 2: founder of the Sugarloaf Social Club. It is a popular
Speaker 2: Instagram account. You've probably come across them. They do a
Speaker 2: ton of stuff on golf courses. They also have a
Speaker 2: creative business, a Sugarlove Creative Lab, which is does kind
Speaker 2: of logo design creative services for clubs or across the country.
Speaker 2: So I had Ian, I this is a long time coming.
Speaker 2: Ian a great golf course mind, a great golf course explorer.
Speaker 2: So I wanted to talk to him about his recent
Speaker 2: trip through Kansas and Oklahoma as well as talk to
Speaker 2: him about the golf course he built. So, without further ado,
Speaker 2: here is Ian Gilly. So tell me about your your
Speaker 2: recent golf trip. I'm always intrigued. I feel like you
Speaker 2: getta you go on at least once a year a
Speaker 2: trip that makes me wish that I was on the
Speaker 2: trip slash wish I had I had done that trip already.
Speaker 3: So tell us about your your most recent trip.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so a couple of years ago, I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, what would be interesting the end of the year
Speaker 1: sort of detox, go on a solo golf trip. You know,
Speaker 1: like that feels like it could be really interesting and
Speaker 1: therapeutic and you can knock out a ton of courses
Speaker 1: in one day. So last year I did Nebraska and
Speaker 1: it was incredible. And then this year, so last week
Speaker 1: also flew into Denver, but flew out of Oklahoma City
Speaker 1: and just kind of played little niners and some nice
Speaker 1: eighteen whole spots along the way. Probably the highlights for me. Well,
Speaker 1: Boiling Springs is pretty cool and perhaps you've heard of
Speaker 1: that Golfers journal I think had an event out there
Speaker 1: last year. I mean there's like a ton of sandy
Speaker 1: terrain kind of in this like prairie landscape, and so
Speaker 1: there are some courses built on dunescapes. So yeah, Boiling Springs,
Speaker 1: which is in this little town in Kansas, oh, in Oklahoma,
Speaker 1: excuse me, in Woodward, Oklahoma, just kind of was incredible.
Speaker 1: It was like a mash up between like Worldwoods to
Speaker 1: Bacco Road and kind of like Jupiter Hills Club vibes
Speaker 1: just set in that kind of terrain. So that was
Speaker 1: pretty That was pretty incredible. But I think that the
Speaker 1: highlight for me of the trip, and we were texting
Speaker 1: about this a little bit, was Buffalo Dunes just south
Speaker 1: of Garden City, Kansas, another municipal course. And these guys
Speaker 1: are really they view themselves as you know what wild
Speaker 1: Horse in Nebraska is two sand hills like, they view
Speaker 1: themselves as sort of that public b side option to
Speaker 1: a prairie dunes. And the superintendent who used to be
Speaker 1: out at bally Neil and Prairie Club has come back.
Speaker 1: He's a local, local guy, and he's been restoring this
Speaker 1: course three holes every year with an totally in house
Speaker 1: team and an incredible budget. And they got one of
Speaker 1: one of core crunch Jaw's shapers to help with the kind.
Speaker 3: Of massive pack Zach Vardy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's incredible and like what they've pulled off,
Speaker 1: they're probably halfway done from a budget standpoint, and then
Speaker 1: the aesthetic standpoint and a playability standpoint is insane. I
Speaker 1: mean it's set on sandy soil and these rippling, you know,
Speaker 1: prairie dune vibes, and they're delivering like exceptional, like world
Speaker 1: class muni golf for an insane valley. It's probably like
Speaker 1: fifty bucks to play there.
Speaker 2: It's one that I've I've wanted to go for a
Speaker 2: couple of years, and every time I look up, like
Speaker 2: I always look up Garden City, and every time I
Speaker 2: look it up, I'm revided. I'm like, I really have
Speaker 2: to go there, and then it's like you got to
Speaker 2: hike back?
Speaker 3: But what prompted that?
Speaker 1: As the locale, it's it's absolutely stunning out there, and
Speaker 1: there's just some incredible nooks and crannies where they're I mean,
Speaker 1: Nebraska is much more like severe like sand dunes wise,
Speaker 1: but yeah, what prompted me to go there? It's really
Speaker 1: like I'm a two year old kid. I think you
Speaker 1: got a young kid too. It's like how quickly and
Speaker 1: officially can I pull off like a three to four
Speaker 1: night golf trip basically, And so it's really starts with
Speaker 1: like where can I fly into that's convenient and fly
Speaker 1: out of that will give me home super fast? So
Speaker 1: that almost like that bookend like dictates sort of this
Speaker 1: this road trip, and I know that like if I'm alone,
Speaker 1: or even if I'm meeting up with one person, like
Speaker 1: in these rural places, I can knock out. I mean
Speaker 1: the first day I saw, I'm nine four nine whole
Speaker 1: golf courses, Like I was just flying and like you
Speaker 1: can drive like crazy fast out there because there's basically
Speaker 1: no one out there. So yeah, I was looking at
Speaker 1: all sorts of like Denver to Albuquerque. I mean there's
Speaker 1: some cool stuff, Like there's this Andy Staples course. I
Speaker 1: really want to check it out out there rock Winn Dude.
Speaker 1: That was I was like trying my best to like
Speaker 1: figure out how to get there. So there's like a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff left to be seen, and I think, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, you can spend all your money and take
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks and try to get through these
Speaker 1: obscure courses in like northern Scotland or wherever. But if
Speaker 1: you go to the middle of our own country and
Speaker 1: sure it's like remote, but maybe it's a two hour
Speaker 1: flight to Denver and then a three hour car ride
Speaker 1: to Bayside, Like that's some incredible golf in it. You
Speaker 1: know you're there quicker than you were somewhere else. So
Speaker 1: it's hopefully like encouraging and like inspiring to folks to
Speaker 1: like think outside the box for a golf trip number one,
Speaker 1: and like you can go by yourself, just go with
Speaker 1: one other person and it'll still be cool. A cool.
Speaker 2: Hang, How did you how did you start? How did
Speaker 2: you decide to go by yourself? Was it was a
Speaker 2: COVID induce Like what you know, I I've got a
Speaker 2: two year old too, We're in like the exact same boat,
Speaker 2: and it was kind of like I think COVID at
Speaker 2: that time was really weird because you know, when COVID hit,
Speaker 2: my wife was pregnant, so you're very very careful, you know,
Speaker 2: and then you know, afterwards, then you have a newborn
Speaker 2: when the world's starting to open it up, but you
Speaker 2: have a newborn, so you're still being really careful. Like,
Speaker 2: how did the solo aspect of this trip come about?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that first year, so that was my
Speaker 1: first one was last year around the same time, and
Speaker 1: so you know, he's he's almost one years old at
Speaker 1: this point, and you know that first those first six
Speaker 1: eight months are just tough man as a first time parent,
Speaker 1: and you're like the first three months are a black hole.
Speaker 1: The next few you're just trying to like come back
Speaker 1: to the reality. And so there was like a year
Speaker 1: where I didn't get to go like on a golf trip,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, last year was just on a whim, like, hey, babe,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about flying to the middle of nowhere, Nebraska
Speaker 1: and playing golf for like four days. Is that possible?
Speaker 1: And she's like, sure, go go this weekend. So I
Speaker 1: like booked that trip in like a couple of days,
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's it's kind of intense. It's an intense
Speaker 1: golf trip for sure, because you don't know what you're
Speaker 1: getting into. And some of these courses, even on this
Speaker 1: last trip, like I did weeks of research and I
Speaker 1: show up and the course has been close for you,
Speaker 1: Like there's just no updates coming from like selling Oklahoma,
Speaker 1: you know, to the golf world about their little nine
Speaker 1: hole Sandhle course.
Speaker 3: So they aren't keeping up to date on their Facebook page.
Speaker 1: I mean, sometimes Facebook's the best place to find out
Speaker 1: about these courses. I mean, if I see a post
Speaker 1: within the last few months, I'm like, Okay, maybe they're open. Maybe,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's it's funny, man, it's and I just
Speaker 1: I love I mean, I didn't see a soul for
Speaker 1: like the first two days at these golf courses. Like
Speaker 1: it's just it was a little creepy. Honestly. Everything's on
Speaker 1: honor box system for the most part. Like I mean, man,
Speaker 1: when I saw my first pro Shop at Boiling Springs,
Speaker 1: I just like dropped my whole wallet in there, basically
Speaker 1: because I was so excited to like see a box
Speaker 1: of Proby ones for the first time in a few days.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's really good. It's fun though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's the uh, what's research? You said you spent
Speaker 2: weeks researching.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Google Earth, man, I spent hours on Google Earth.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you can almost guarantee that every little
Speaker 1: town has some semblance of something golf. And so I'm
Speaker 1: just on there, like I know, I'm in Denver, finding Denver, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm just like plotting points like along this route and
Speaker 1: just finding courses and like starring them basically, and then
Speaker 1: from there going into the their Facebook pages or you
Speaker 1: know what, maybe someone wrote an article about them ten
Speaker 1: years ago about their grand opening or whatever. So tons
Speaker 1: of notes and you know, knowing where you're sleeping each night,
Speaker 1: is kind of like the first order of business. I'm
Speaker 1: and locking those in. So being a huge Google Earth guy,
Speaker 1: that's pretty much I find all these courses in the
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we we did.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: I was in this sand Hills of Nebraska a few
Speaker 2: times this year and it's it's funny they uh both
Speaker 2: times stayed local lodging and like the highlight of my summer,
Speaker 2: I would say, is we finished like a long day
Speaker 2: we were doing shooting at sand Hills for this uh,
Speaker 2: this Superintendent thing that we're putting together this fall and uh,
Speaker 2: and it was like we finished shooting, the restaurant had closed,
Speaker 2: you know, because it's later at night. We got we
Speaker 2: got a pizza from the gas station. We drive to
Speaker 2: our motel and we're just eating on the hood of
Speaker 2: the car and we got like, you know, a.
Speaker 3: Six pack of beer.
Speaker 2: And it's like that's the beauty of doing these like
Speaker 2: remote trips. And in some of those, like when you're
Speaker 2: talking about Nebraska sand Hills, you know, Western Kansas, is
Speaker 2: you just have these moments of like it's a little
Speaker 2: bit more. It does not it's definitely not filled with frills,
Speaker 2: but it's filled with these moments where you're just like,
Speaker 2: you know what, this is pretty good. So I think
Speaker 2: for people that are familiar with your page at Sugar
Speaker 2: Left Social, they've seen your journeys, and I feel like
Speaker 2: this is kind of an extension of your journeys through
Speaker 2: the Northeast and upstate New York and Maine and Vermont,
Speaker 2: and you know what are some of your favorite places
Speaker 2: from those journeys A little bit less known golf courses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we're gonna like look to Maine. I
Speaker 1: mean there's so much cool little stuff there and styles
Speaker 1: of van Kleek. I mean they're just dotted all over
Speaker 1: the Northeast. But I think North Haven Island, which you have,
Speaker 1: it's in Maine. You have to take a ferry to it.
Speaker 1: Nine hole SDK course out there, all these secret tea boxes.
Speaker 1: I mean there's you know, one T box that's like
Speaker 1: on the beach held up by like lobster crates basically
Speaker 1: with AstroTurf tea box and you're hitting over this little
Speaker 1: tiny inlet and that one, to me is like incredibly
Speaker 1: incredibly special. Yeah, you get up, you get up in
Speaker 1: to Aderomdacks. I mean there's something there's like I mean
Speaker 1: basically you look at all these like nooks and crannies
Speaker 1: that are deep in the middle of nowhere in the
Speaker 1: northeast and kind of down the east coast that were
Speaker 1: like summer retreats for the for the wealthy one hundred
Speaker 1: years ago. So you'll find a lot of Golden Age stuff,
Speaker 1: Like there's the frontline of Fendara out there, and uh
Speaker 1: near the Adirondacks is just Donald Ross. It's incredible, absolutely incredible.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's hard. Once my like perspective on
Speaker 1: like what made golf kind of fun and like shifted
Speaker 1: from trying to chase lists and see all the cool,
Speaker 1: super nice famous stuff Like there's so there's an endless
Speaker 1: supply basically of interesting, quirky local stuff. So yeah, those
Speaker 1: are a couple of my like absolute favorites up there.
Speaker 2: I would say, I think something that appeals to me
Speaker 2: about when you're going somewhere that's relatively unknown is the
Speaker 2: discovery aspect of it.
Speaker 3: You know, having never seen a phot of a.
Speaker 2: Place or a good photo of a place or never
Speaker 2: you know they're not being something written up or a
Speaker 2: grand thing done about it. Like it really appeals, like
Speaker 2: makes me excited to turn the next corner. It's almost
Speaker 2: like you build certain experiences up so much in your head,
Speaker 2: and when you go on these discovery trips like you've done,
Speaker 2: it's almost like you your expectations are out the window.
Speaker 2: So then it allows you to just like almost enjoy
Speaker 2: the courses more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably like what I'm always like secretly chasing
Speaker 1: is that feeling of discovering something organically for the first time,
Speaker 1: like you haven't been. I mean, I can't think of
Speaker 1: like a top one hundred club that I almost haven't
Speaker 1: seen every hole on Instagram Hollywood Golf Club, Like would
Speaker 1: really love to go there, but Country Complection just posted
Speaker 1: every hole today and I was like, I just played
Speaker 1: the course basically, so you know, there's there's not much
Speaker 1: left uncovered. And that's kind of what drives me to
Speaker 1: go deeper and deeper and more obscure. Like the other
Speaker 1: day I was looking up in like what is near
Speaker 1: the Arctic Circle in Canada? Like how how weird and
Speaker 1: far can we keep pushing this that people haven't seen
Speaker 1: kind of in our orbit? And I think like a
Speaker 1: lot of the really really cool stuff is found, I
Speaker 1: mean has been found, but you know, ever every so
Speaker 1: often I mean even even locally to me. Here this
Speaker 1: place called Capon Springs, which is like, once upon a
Speaker 1: time rivaled Greenbrier and Homestead, and it's in West Virginia,
Speaker 1: and it's like it took me like ten years to
Speaker 1: find this place. And it's ninety minutes from my house.
Speaker 1: So there's still some like truly like hidden gems out there.
Speaker 1: But you're right, it's that feeling that like it's like
Speaker 1: a treasure hunt or like I don't know, antiquing or something,
Speaker 1: and you find this cool little trinket and like that
Speaker 1: makes that experience incredibly special. And that's kind of what
Speaker 1: I'm always chasing, honestly.
Speaker 2: I you know, I looked at at a golf course.
Speaker 2: There's a golf course in a Yukon territory of Canada.
Speaker 2: That's I've looked this up. It's only open for like
Speaker 2: two months of the year.
Speaker 3: So tell me a.
Speaker 2: Little bit about about Sugarlove Social how you guys got started,
Speaker 2: And then I think I have a feel, but the
Speaker 2: evolution of it and what, you know, what is become.
Speaker 1: To make a long story as short as possible, it
Speaker 1: really goes back to when I was at Rollins College
Speaker 1: with my two roommates. This is in twenty eleven, and
Speaker 1: we're playing Corn Crunshaw's Sugarloaf Mountain, which doesn't exist anymore
Speaker 1: outside of Orlando. You know, it's getting towards the end
Speaker 1: of the school year, and we're getting kind of sentimental
Speaker 1: and emotional and we're all going our separate ways. And
Speaker 1: you know, I've always been a huge fan of like
Speaker 1: I just love branding and like, let's let's name something
Speaker 1: and then figure it out, like let's invent a sport
Speaker 1: and run with it sort of thing. Like so we're
Speaker 1: on the sixteenth hole at Sugarloaf Mountain and I'm just like, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: why don't we why don't we just call our little
Speaker 1: group here Sugarlove Social Club and sort of give us
Speaker 1: some incentive to you know, keep in touch after college
Speaker 1: and maybe add some new friends to the fold. And
Speaker 1: that's literally like what Sugarloaf Social Club was for five, six,
Speaker 1: seven years. I mean, it was like a text chain
Speaker 1: and like a private Facebook group of like twenty guys
Speaker 1: and we would go on one trip a year to
Speaker 1: Finers and we still the core still still does that.
Speaker 1: But obviously, like wanted a cool logo for our little
Speaker 1: group and love merch, so started making making some hats
Speaker 1: and we're kind of one of the early people into
Speaker 1: Instagram at this point. And oh yeah, you know, I
Speaker 1: saw Instagram as like this incredible platform that beyond like
Speaker 1: maybe any other niche like golf was poised to like
Speaker 1: be so strong with Instagram by its side, because it's
Speaker 1: such like a visual like you're collecting Pokemon cards going
Speaker 1: to all these courses, right, and like I think one
Speaker 1: of the not to derail from like the orgins of Truelive.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like I think people like under like forget
Speaker 1: or underestimate how important like Instagram was to these cool
Speaker 1: like Tobacco Road today that place was mocked or people
Speaker 1: didn't understand it, and like you can't tell you can't
Speaker 1: show a picture of someone Tobacco Road in nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 1: you know so, but damn like that Instagram comes around
Speaker 1: and now you can like visually collect this like social
Speaker 1: currency of like hey I was here and look how
Speaker 1: cool it is. And it shifted perspectives for you know,
Speaker 1: I think we were, you know, part of that, and
Speaker 1: places like Tobacco Road are like the coolest place to
Speaker 1: like get that Pokemon stamp. Get that passport stamp.
Speaker 2: Now, there's definitely like Instagram courses, like courses that you
Speaker 2: know it, I I know, you know it. I know
Speaker 2: it as people that you know post pictures, but like
Speaker 2: you go certain places and you discover place and it's like,
Speaker 2: oh when I post a picture of this course, people
Speaker 2: are going to be like holy shit, like where is
Speaker 2: this place?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: And and Tobacco Road was you know, Tobacco Road Sweeten's Cove. Like,
Speaker 2: you know, you could go down a list of courses
Speaker 2: that visually, you know, not a lot of people have
Speaker 2: been to. But once that like it's one thing to
Speaker 2: say to somebody, hey, you should go see this course,
Speaker 2: but it's another thing to show to show them why
Speaker 2: they should go see it course. And that's what Instagram
Speaker 2: has done for so many courses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree. So anyway, I mean going like
Speaker 1: kind of recognize that early, like this is going to
Speaker 1: be a powerful platform for cool golf stuff. And I
Speaker 1: had this incredible library from like of golf pictures, you know,
Speaker 1: from playing golf you know, after college to this kind
Speaker 1: of Instagram moment and even stuff from traveling, you know,
Speaker 1: when I was abroad in Scotland for school and anyway,
Speaker 1: it was just like this perfect storm of like we
Speaker 1: had a brand before we had merch basically, and then
Speaker 1: once we had merched, people were like, hey, that's a
Speaker 1: cool hat. Can I like PAYPALU you and you can
Speaker 1: send it to me, and like that kind of worked
Speaker 1: for the first few you know, merch transactions, and I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, this is like really annoying. I
Speaker 1: got to build a website and then just snowballs from that, right,
Speaker 1: and so like I always wanted to have my own
Speaker 1: brand and have it kind of be a part of
Speaker 1: something and and kind of mean something to people and
Speaker 1: make folks happy, which I think Sugarlift does for many
Speaker 1: many offers. And that's just kind of how it started
Speaker 1: in snowball. Our and our strategy is like what does
Speaker 1: Ian want? Like, you know, I really need a new
Speaker 1: white hat? Okay, so we order new white hats. Like
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of like as complicated as like the
Speaker 1: ordering strategy is and the design process. So and that's
Speaker 1: so yeah, that's Sugar Loaf Social Club. And then behind that,
Speaker 1: my business partner and I also had have an agency
Speaker 1: called sugar Lift Creative Lub We've done a bunch of
Speaker 1: creative work for big and small golf properties across the
Speaker 1: country and so that's that's a really fun you know,
Speaker 1: Sugarloaf Social Club is a very public facing entity and
Speaker 1: that kind of proves some of this you know, creative
Speaker 1: sauce to folks and they're like, hey, like maybe you
Speaker 1: guys can help us with this logo or the scorecard.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's been awesome. I mean Pinehurst and Pebble
Speaker 1: Beach and PG National and it's been it's been incredible,
Speaker 1: But we're really focusing on ourselves more going forward. So
Speaker 1: looking forward to that, I.
Speaker 2: Know that you guys have done a lot of work
Speaker 2: with like Pinehurst with logos and branding.
Speaker 3: What's the what's the key?
Speaker 2: If you this is what's the key to distilling down
Speaker 2: a great logo for a course that's looking for a
Speaker 2: new logo?
Speaker 3: Like what do you think? What do you how do
Speaker 3: you go about that process?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think like we're our special sauce. Liede was
Speaker 1: being able to sort of find that like kernel of
Speaker 1: something interesting from the archives, whether it's the color palette
Speaker 1: of the courses at at Pinehurst or a picture of
Speaker 1: a sea lion on one of the greens at Pebble
Speaker 1: Beach when we did their Part three, their new Part
Speaker 1: three logo finding finding this like little kernel of inspiration.
Speaker 1: And then you know, I think there's like a language
Speaker 1: of golf course logos that like works and stuff that
Speaker 1: doesn't work, and things don't necessarily need to scream golf.
Speaker 1: You know, we definitely have some like Flag six and
Speaker 1: some of the logos we've done, but like we think
Speaker 1: of these logos these courses as like almost like a
Speaker 1: peril brands, like Pebble Beach's logo, that's their swoosh, that's
Speaker 1: their ralph laurn pony. So like, how do you these
Speaker 1: are very simple, almost you know, monotone marks sometimes that
Speaker 1: have stood the test of time and so not trying
Speaker 1: to be too trendy and pulling from the archives and
Speaker 1: making something that we feel like will last for one
Speaker 1: hundred more years basically, and like there's a great you know,
Speaker 1: you look at the top one hundred courses and like
Speaker 1: there's only a few horses that kind of have like
Speaker 1: whackish logos like crystal downs or something, you know.
Speaker 2: Like oh man, drive five Crystal Downs.
Speaker 1: I They're on my pinboard of like what are the
Speaker 1: few horses that could maybe use something. But like that's
Speaker 1: also cool that like you have like a you know,
Speaker 1: kind of Scottish.
Speaker 2: I don't even I don't even know how you describe
Speaker 2: as like a shield.
Speaker 1: It's a belt, it's like a it's like a yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like a it's gotta be a tartan like derivative something.
Speaker 3: Do you have?
Speaker 2: Uh, what's what's your in your opinion, what's what's the
Speaker 2: best and what what would you say is is the
Speaker 2: the most overrated logo and your favorite one?
Speaker 1: I think the maidstone and the wing foot stuff is
Speaker 1: is wonderful. I think looking to like more of like
Speaker 1: a modern you know, I think the Monterey Peninsula Country
Speaker 1: Club folks, that's I believe that's like a modern iteration
Speaker 1: of their logo. I think they've they've done an incredible
Speaker 1: job of that. Like I love kooky characters and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I kind of I probably like all the
Speaker 1: same ones like a lot of folks do. I mean,
Speaker 1: my favorite, probably one of my favorite logos is like
Speaker 1: that old and GC members logo that kind of has
Speaker 1: all these like quirky like off turquoise colors and lowercase
Speaker 1: letters and you know, I think I'm really drawn to
Speaker 1: the hand the hand drawn looking things, you know, like
Speaker 1: in graphic design in general, there's a lot of I mean,
Speaker 1: you go down to your local hipster coffee store and
Speaker 1: it looks like the exact same logo as fifty others.
Speaker 1: And I think there's like a little bit of a
Speaker 1: you know, we're stuck society creatively in like an aesthetic
Speaker 1: right now. And a lot of that probably has to
Speaker 1: do with there's so many people who are so talented
Speaker 1: using like computer graphic design programs and like going back
Speaker 1: to that you know, hand drawn style, I think is
Speaker 1: what you know, subconsciously, these logos that stand the test
Speaker 1: of time have they were done by hand one hundred
Speaker 1: years ago basically, And so that's some of what we
Speaker 1: try to you know, bring to our marks as well.
Speaker 2: You make such a good point. It is like there are,
Speaker 2: in a way, trends get shook shook up. I have
Speaker 2: a colleague who I don't think he'd mind me calling
Speaker 2: him a coffee snop, complete coffee snop.
Speaker 3: But he he will.
Speaker 2: He says that he can tell without going into coffee
Speaker 2: shop if you'll like it or not. It's all about
Speaker 2: the look, like he he knows what a a coffee
Speaker 2: shop that he would like looks like from the outside. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And but like at the same time, if you think
Speaker 2: about like what houses are being built, Like, if I
Speaker 2: see another modern farmhouse, Phil in a neighborhood, it's like,
Speaker 2: come on, do something different, but the same thing in
Speaker 2: a way with golf architecture, golf architecture will get stuck.
Speaker 3: People will shake it up.
Speaker 2: You know, and you'll get like a you know, in
Speaker 2: a way like Tom Doak and Bill and Ben.
Speaker 3: You know, they introduced it a little bit new.
Speaker 2: Style, right, this naturalized style, right, and you can see
Speaker 2: then it sorts of run through all of their peers.
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying all of them copy like, you know,
Speaker 2: but I listened to Bill, he said. Phil once on
Speaker 2: the pod said Pete dies the most you know, underrated
Speaker 2: architect because he changed golf architecture twice in what he
Speaker 2: introduced new styles, and then everybody else, you know, adapted
Speaker 2: those styles and everything looked like it, but.
Speaker 3: None of them was that.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting, you know what you said about logos, right,
Speaker 2: I feel like characters are super end with logos right now,
Speaker 2: Like everybody's looking for like an animal or something. And
Speaker 2: it's like like a logo that I love that gets
Speaker 2: like almost like underrated because of it. Is like some
Speaker 2: of the letter logos that intertwined letters like SFGC or
Speaker 2: sand Hills.
Speaker 1: I'm sure Akers do that one is unbelievable.
Speaker 3: And in a way they have gotten a little bit.
Speaker 2: They've become not cool because you know, the the animals
Speaker 2: and stuff are you know, are in and I get it,
Speaker 2: like the whale, the Maidstone whale is cool, you know,
Speaker 2: but at the same time, let's forget that there's other
Speaker 2: ways you could do stuff. And I think that's the
Speaker 2: thing about it, is like, you know, some of the
Speaker 2: cool stuff is just like you know, sand Hills is
Speaker 2: famously I think it was Bill like did it with
Speaker 2: his foot or something?
Speaker 1: You made a great point, man, because it's like even
Speaker 1: the Sea Island script, like that's not a font, like
Speaker 1: someone one hundred years go like hand like calligraphyed that
Speaker 1: and it's so iconic. So and I think all those
Speaker 1: kind of monograms that just mentioned have that similar, like
Speaker 1: IFCT they're almost like an imperfect you know, like with
Speaker 1: the way the little like wings on the top of
Speaker 1: the a at you know, shore Akers kind of fly
Speaker 1: Off and yeah, so underrated. You're right, And like I've
Speaker 1: been thinking about that a lot too, about how architect
Speaker 1: like man, these courses are starting to all look very
Speaker 1: similar to me and like all like I'm excited for
Speaker 1: such valley because someone's doing something different, or like who's
Speaker 1: gonna like who's gonna read like is like the Philosopher
Speaker 1: country club like Chicago tree lined? Is that aesthetic gonna
Speaker 1: come back? Ever? Like like no one's building like a
Speaker 1: country club course anymore, I don't know, Or like who's
Speaker 1: gonna try to do like a Langford Moreau style something.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm almost like done with like the natural
Speaker 1: supernatural stuff and let's try some other other looks.
Speaker 2: You're doing effectively art when you're doing these logo things
Speaker 2: like it's you're an artist, you're hired and you're doing art.
Speaker 2: And I think about this a lot. Is like you know,
Speaker 2: where would golf architecture be if it was more like
Speaker 2: other arts, right where like, hey, I want to be
Speaker 2: a golf architect and somebody could go just like build
Speaker 2: a course on land, like without an owner, because like
Speaker 2: that's how famous artists become discovered, right, is that they
Speaker 2: draw something in their room or their little like two
Speaker 2: foot studio, their closet of a studio. But with golf courses,
Speaker 2: like you get hired by somebody and somebody you know
Speaker 2: there when you get hired by you know, Soto, so
Speaker 2: so rare is the case that like they are just
Speaker 2: going to like sit back and be like, you know what, whatever,
Speaker 2: build me.
Speaker 3: A golf course. I'll come check on you in two years.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: Nobody does that, right, So like, instead you have like
Speaker 2: these and I think, like way, like what's your you know,
Speaker 2: I think a lot of golf architects probably say what's
Speaker 2: your what are your favorite courses? And then they build
Speaker 2: around that vein rather than and like this is what
Speaker 2: I want to build, and this is what I want.
Speaker 3: To contribute to the art of golf architecture.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like they're kind of put in a confined
Speaker 1: to like this prescriptive box before they put a shovel
Speaker 1: in the dirt, like it's got to be this many holes,
Speaker 1: it has to the back tos have to get to
Speaker 1: this yardage, and I need this mix of this kind
Speaker 1: of standard mix of fives, fours and threes, and so
Speaker 1: it's fun it's it's so funny. To me man, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, even like Saint Andrews is so different and
Speaker 1: quirky and like the two part threes. And I don't know,
Speaker 1: people don't always like look back. They think they're looking
Speaker 1: back and inspired by stuff, But like Pine Valley was
Speaker 1: sitting there for one hundred years and like no one
Speaker 1: really built another cool Baron's course until the like eighties
Speaker 1: or nineties. What's that about? So yeah, I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: I don't know what's I think what's next in like
Speaker 1: golf course architecture are more quirk and charm and urban
Speaker 1: or far out like five whole six ole par threes
Speaker 1: whatever's so I think that's where there's some like opportunity
Speaker 1: to do creative stuff, because you're right, like, how are
Speaker 1: you gonna convince this billionaire who's finally got all the
Speaker 1: ducks in the road to build his first course? Like,
Speaker 1: how are you going to convince him to do something
Speaker 1: totally off the wall?
Speaker 2: One of the courses that I was most taken aback
Speaker 2: about how much I enjoyed this year was Scottsdale National.
Speaker 2: And you know I played with Tim and David, Tim
Speaker 2: Jackson and David Kahn when I was out there and
Speaker 2: and I, you know, I love to folk fund at
Speaker 2: the PXG commercials.
Speaker 3: Who doesn't.
Speaker 2: The guy comes on just yelling at you about Parsons
Speaker 2: and so I had I was like, you guys, gotta
Speaker 2: gotta give me the dirt, give me the dirt. How
Speaker 2: is Bob as a as a client? And they're like,
Speaker 2: honestly greatest client ever. And so they brought him out.
Speaker 2: I apparently I don't think they didn't tell the story
Speaker 2: on the pod, but they brought him out, you know,
Speaker 2: early on, and they were showing them all the stuff.
Speaker 2: And he said to him listen like, hey, guys, like
Speaker 2: I haven't had a Christmas morning in twenty five years,
Speaker 2: Like I have so much money. When I want something,
Speaker 2: I buy it. He's like, this golf course is gonna
Speaker 2: be my Christmas morning. I don't want you to tell
Speaker 2: me anything going on. I want to come out here
Speaker 2: on an opening day and have like genuine shock. And
Speaker 2: so he just did let them go do whatever they wanted.
Speaker 2: And it's kind of like crazy. It's like you think
Speaker 2: of all the clients, like all the people that would
Speaker 2: be like my last.
Speaker 3: Pick or somebody that would just get out of the way.
Speaker 1: That's incredible. Great, great anecdote and like that stuff. Even
Speaker 1: are those the thing guys that did that? They're like
Speaker 1: Bad Little nine as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Bad Little nine too. It's a cool place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at least that's something like I haven't really seen
Speaker 1: that before. That is that's something different. You know, that's
Speaker 1: gnarly golden tea fun golf.
Speaker 2: Well you brought up you brought up Tobacco Road, Like
Speaker 2: that's a perfect example, Like is Tobacco Road my favorite
Speaker 2: course now? But like what I love about Tobacco Road
Speaker 2: is it makes you feel something. Too much architecture doesn't
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 1: What I also love about Tobacco Road, And I think
Speaker 1: that was all time like growing up again, I've never
Speaker 1: seen a photo this place, but like was playing junior
Speaker 1: tournaments in the Pinehers area and there's like, you know,
Speaker 1: whispers of this like crazy hard quirky, which like quirky
Speaker 1: was like a bad thing right like in the nineties,
Speaker 1: and so you know, in my head, it's like this impossible,
Speaker 1: like wacky. You get out there and like turns out
Speaker 1: a third of the pins are gonna be punishable, like
Speaker 1: you're gonna have like six birdies. You know, my dad's
Speaker 1: gonna have a thrilling ball bound towards the pin and
Speaker 1: he's gonna remember that shot forever. And so yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the strength stuff. And especially Tobaco Road Man. I mean
Speaker 1: like at least that's that's different, Like that is something
Speaker 1: wholly unique.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but instead of everybody's gonna build the same coffee shop.
Speaker 2: The one thing I do, like I've seen like Brian
Speaker 2: Schneider's been bringing back a lot of above ground features.
Speaker 3: Those are some of my favorite things.
Speaker 2: Like and you you know, I see him so much
Speaker 2: on your page when you're out seeing quirky places. Is
Speaker 2: like you know, the idea of like mounts and chocolate
Speaker 2: drops and stuff like, it's just like the stuff has
Speaker 2: such utility, you know, is early on it was just
Speaker 2: a place to put rocks and obviously that's not it anymore.
Speaker 2: But like the idea of like it not being a bunker,
Speaker 2: doesn't need to be raked all the time. It's actually
Speaker 2: more difficult and it gives you, like, you know, it
Speaker 2: gives you different levels of for your eye to get
Speaker 2: drawn in different places for your eye to get drawn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Walter Travis stuff especially, and you know, Yae,
Speaker 1: you're proper golf on Instagram he's he's got a couple
Speaker 1: Travis products he's always working on too, And it's like
Speaker 1: they're manipulative features, like they're man made things or they're like, hey,
Speaker 1: you got up this rock here, and SOB's just gonna
Speaker 1: grow over it over time. But like that stuff was
Speaker 1: taken out of a lot of courses for like the
Speaker 1: longest time. I'm sure you've seen that. I think it's
Speaker 1: the the fifteenth or sixteenth pole at Columbia Country Club,
Speaker 1: like the par three that you sound like a huge
Speaker 1: pimple in the middle of it, and like all these
Speaker 1: like cool like you know shoulders where the green kind
Speaker 1: of rolled over and then like continue to I mean,
Speaker 1: just incredible stuff. Yeah, I think the Travis. I mean
Speaker 1: you're just that country called Troy, right, Like there's some.
Speaker 3: Cool that's a cool place.
Speaker 1: It's cool stuff out there. That's that you're right, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: bring yeah, more of that, like more centerline hazards, like
Speaker 1: more chocolate drops, like more vertical like inverted bunkers, like
Speaker 1: I'm here for that.
Speaker 2: So you bought a course? Yes, How did how did
Speaker 2: this come about? You know, this is everybody's dream is
Speaker 2: to buy buy a golf course. How did you find it,
Speaker 2: How did you decide to buy it?
Speaker 3: Where is it? Where is it? We need some details to.
Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah, it's called Sugar low Field Club. It's in Whitehall,
Speaker 1: New which is just on the edge of the Adirondack
Speaker 1: Park on the eastern side of Lake George. And you know,
Speaker 1: you're right. It's everyone's everyone's dream to like have a
Speaker 1: course of their own, or build, build something from scratch,
Speaker 1: or buy something. And you know, our our partner in
Speaker 1: this venture David Cronheim, his family owns and operates Washing
Speaker 1: Valley in New Jersey. You know, he and I are
Speaker 1: good buddies, have known each other for ten years, and
Speaker 1: you know it's kind of the classic like friends late
Speaker 1: night texting, like dream ideas and like look at this
Speaker 1: place or look at this piece of land. And this
Speaker 1: year we got really serious about how do we how
Speaker 1: do we like go from just talking about it to
Speaker 1: like doing something interesting? Is it? Do we buy house
Speaker 1: in the Piners area? Do we you know, save Buyna Vista,
Speaker 1: which is a public course you know, in rural Virginia.
Speaker 1: Like we're looking for something and it wasn't especially like
Speaker 1: what we ended up with, but David just happened to
Speaker 1: find the real estate listing for this this and it
Speaker 1: was called Whitehall Field Club originally built by this guy
Speaker 1: who sort of had his own boyhood dream too. He's like,
Speaker 1: I'm I want my own golf course. So what he
Speaker 1: built was six holes that resemble kind of Saint Andrew's
Speaker 1: style Links Golf and the Gustin National Clubhouse. And this
Speaker 1: guy had never been to either one of those. So
Speaker 1: it's this total like kooky, like boyhood dream situation. And
Speaker 1: Steve Diurky was the architect. And you know, David and
Speaker 1: I we go out there the first time this summer
Speaker 1: and like the real estate listening, like, the place looks gorgeous,
Speaker 1: Like it looks like we brought our clubs. David's got
Speaker 1: his spikes on parking lot. We get there and there's
Speaker 1: heather like above our head. This place hadn't been mode
Speaker 1: in like two or three years. So we basically we
Speaker 1: bought a field that we're mowing back down into the
Speaker 1: golf course. But yeah, man, it's it's you know, we've
Speaker 1: had our superintendent out there for three weeks and it's
Speaker 1: it's looking really good, like the green fairways are pop
Speaker 1: be back. We're gonna have to sob the greens in
Speaker 1: the in the spring. But yeah, it's gonna be a
Speaker 1: private club, probably fifty members and bring in some cabins
Speaker 1: and have some lodging in the clubhouse as well, and
Speaker 1: it's just going to be a little ad Airondack camp
Speaker 1: vibe club.
Speaker 2: So six holes, what's uh, what's the what's the gist
Speaker 2: of the holes? Are you going to do any work
Speaker 2: too of or are you going to kind of are
Speaker 2: you going to wait and see period?
Speaker 1: I think we you know, bring it, bring it back
Speaker 1: to playable right now. Like it's actually really it's like
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's accidentally good or on purpose good,
Speaker 1: but it's like it's good. It's they're good golf holes.
Speaker 1: It's not a short course. It's like a legit par
Speaker 1: five length opener and one hundred and eighty yard part
Speaker 1: three second hole and so on. So you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's four greens, so two of the middle greens are
Speaker 1: shared and you just play three holes out and three
Speaker 1: holes back. And it's flanked by the by a canal
Speaker 1: and in a river, so there's there's water views and
Speaker 1: you look down the saddles which is the mountain range
Speaker 1: of that area. And like you hear six holes and
Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, you know, that's not going to do
Speaker 1: it for me, but it's legit golf and good architecture
Speaker 1: and so you know, basically just like let's restore this
Speaker 1: place first and put some on these greens and there's
Speaker 1: interesting movements and that'll be step one and maybe a
Speaker 1: few new back tea boxes, but we will definitely be
Speaker 1: looking to like up the architectural game in the seasons
Speaker 1: to follow and finding the right you know, shaper or
Speaker 1: architect to help us through that project as well.
Speaker 2: The thing about it too is like six holes is
Speaker 2: kind of like good for a vacation spot because like
Speaker 2: if you're going to the Adirondacks, there's other stuff to
Speaker 2: do too, you know, beyond golf. Like I always think
Speaker 2: about like the there's a couple of great like little
Speaker 2: clubs in like southwest Michigan. Dunes Club is obviously one
Speaker 2: of them. But it's like nine hole course you can
Speaker 2: scoot around, you know, short eighteen hole coursees you know,
Speaker 2: fifty seven hundred yards that you can just kind of
Speaker 2: fly around and get back because you know, you want
Speaker 2: may go to the lake or do some other stuff.
Speaker 2: It's the idea of like six holes is like you
Speaker 2: said earlier, I think that's like the thing that needs
Speaker 2: to be pushed for golf is like different versions because
Speaker 2: you could play those six holes so many different ways
Speaker 2: if you just change up teas, you change up like
Speaker 2: you know, if you have a lot of T boxes,
Speaker 2: you know, it could change the complete angle of the
Speaker 2: T shot then all sudden it's a completely different hole, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And like the truth is like when folks
Speaker 1: and numbers and guests are out there, like if it's
Speaker 1: if there's twelve people on property, like that would be
Speaker 1: an insane situation. So like you can imagine like getting
Speaker 1: your cross country on or playing in your tens on more.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna play three holes then go have a
Speaker 1: beer on her Augusta National Replica Clubhouse Randa for you know,
Speaker 1: an hour, or read a book or and like there's
Speaker 1: you know, I think the type of folks that we
Speaker 1: attract like understand that like golf doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: like this, you know, exact like championship eighteen whole thing.
Speaker 1: And they're also open to like adventures too, And there's
Speaker 1: a lot of cool golf in that area of public
Speaker 1: and private like super high and super low stuff. So
Speaker 1: from Glenn's falls an aquamic to a lit part three
Speaker 1: courses down the street to these little hamlets on Lake
Speaker 1: George all have like nine and five whole courses, so
Speaker 1: it's more than interesting. And you're right, it's like it's
Speaker 1: a vacation. It's like a vacation club basically, and there's
Speaker 1: more stuff to do than just golf, or you can
Speaker 1: create your own adventure with golf as well.
Speaker 3: What was the hardest part about the whole process so far?
Speaker 3: What has been the hardest part.
Speaker 1: You know, the behind the scenes stuff that like people
Speaker 1: don't know about or don't want to think about. Like
Speaker 1: the fun of it is like, wow, you own your
Speaker 1: own golf course, but the reality is like you're buying
Speaker 1: like multiple acres from some person you don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: with that has like structures and irrigation and there's water
Speaker 1: aka potential, Like we don't you know, you just it's
Speaker 1: you have to Like that's where David is so helpful
Speaker 1: in this situation. Like maybe I'm the creative marketing brain,
Speaker 1: but he's the lawyer, real estate brain and just close
Speaker 1: Like if you've ever bought a home, like you know,
Speaker 1: like how intense that is. So like amp that up
Speaker 1: to like sixty five acres that has a clubhouse and
Speaker 1: its in a septic system that's kind of independent, and
Speaker 1: so that's that's been you know, the real learning curve
Speaker 1: for me is just the like the boring, the boring
Speaker 1: dealing with county regulation, state regulations, like thank goodness, we're
Speaker 1: not in that or on that park or else. You know,
Speaker 1: you couldn't look at a tree for without get to violation.
Speaker 1: So and it becomes really serious once you start hiring
Speaker 1: people and that that feels like you're we have a
Speaker 1: superintendent who's relying on us to figure out the membership
Speaker 1: model when we have to pay for his life, and
Speaker 1: like people are like dependent on this place. So like
Speaker 1: that's that's a huge responsibility too. It's not it's not
Speaker 1: just on a golf course. You own a golf course
Speaker 1: where you also have to generate revenue to pay people.
Speaker 1: So you know, those those realities are just just like
Speaker 1: running you know, the non sexy side of just like
Speaker 1: running businesses, seeing the paperwork side of things. So but like, honestly,
Speaker 1: this has been this project. We've only been involved with
Speaker 1: this for you know, in earnest for two months now,
Speaker 1: so you know, we got to We've been talking with
Speaker 1: different cabin vendors. We're you know, like finding the right
Speaker 1: cabin fit, finding the right guy we can trust to
Speaker 1: like hook those up to the sewage system.
Speaker 3: Then finding somebody to maintain them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. Finding good labor is tough in these remote
Speaker 1: parts of the country too, So food like what are
Speaker 1: people going to do for food? Like there's not a
Speaker 1: there's not a kitchen, but it's but people, you know,
Speaker 1: the folks who are We had probably five hundred thousand
Speaker 1: people email us interested in joining this place, and David
Speaker 1: and I have been spent the last couple of weeks
Speaker 1: just meticulously going through every talking to everyone on the phone,
Speaker 1: zoom calls, like it's it's been an incredible process to
Speaker 1: like find the right culture fit of people who are
Speaker 1: gonna understand how cool this place can be.
Speaker 2: How'd you land on fifty members?
Speaker 1: You know it's just capacity and six holes with twelve
Speaker 1: to fourteen places to sleep, you know kind of just
Speaker 1: went went from there and we're like, how many folks
Speaker 1: theoretically could like fit in this place and have access
Speaker 1: to these two overnight opportunities you know, during the good season,
Speaker 1: so that's kind of that's kind of how we came
Speaker 1: up with that. And just small intimate everyone knows each other.
Speaker 1: I mean that's really appealing to us. You know, like
Speaker 1: the golf course is incredibly social and the you know,
Speaker 1: the hangs are going to be very communal, so it's
Speaker 1: like keeping it tight and like getting good stewards who
Speaker 1: like understand our vision and are totally jazzed about the
Speaker 1: concept is was was crucial for us. So and we're
Speaker 1: gonna have a handful of probably ten or twenty more
Speaker 1: local members too. We think that's super important. So many
Speaker 1: good courses in the area that folks belong to, and
Speaker 1: just good Sugarloaf fans basically up there who want to
Speaker 1: be a part of it as well, and to have
Speaker 1: some local people who can play host a little bit
Speaker 1: to folks and just be you know, because I live
Speaker 1: in northern Virginia and David lives in New Jersey, so
Speaker 1: we're gonna be up there as much as possible. But
Speaker 1: you know, our North Star like one of my favorite
Speaker 1: golfing experiences. And this is not a totally perfect parallel,
Speaker 1: but I mean, you've been to Kingsley like you just
Speaker 1: show up there, go to your cabin and go golf
Speaker 1: and there's like cereal in the cupboard. I was really
Speaker 1: drawn to that, and like emulating lightly staffed, do what
Speaker 1: you want, come as you are, have fun, be relaxed
Speaker 1: was kind of the impetus for this Circle Field Club.
Speaker 3: It's exciting.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the more more relaxed golf can be, right,
Speaker 2: is the better. The last question to get you out
Speaker 2: of here, what are the three courses you think about
Speaker 2: the most, not the best, just the ones that you
Speaker 2: you think about the most.
Speaker 1: Probably, I mean Culver, I think is probably my number one.
Speaker 2: It's getting so good too. Michael is doing such such
Speaker 2: a good job there.
Speaker 1: He's killing it. I think. You know, I grew up
Speaker 1: in the South Side, Chicago and we would go every
Speaker 1: summer to Culver and so like, I've played that course
Speaker 1: thousands of times. And I mean, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you were over there before the renovation.
Speaker 3: But it was like I wasn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was you know, there's no sand in you
Speaker 1: can just see these huge you know, Langford wrote dramatic
Speaker 1: like bunkers. There's no sandity in the bunkers. The greens
Speaker 1: are over irrigated super like you're getting like a plug
Speaker 1: lie every time in the greens and it's just like
Speaker 1: gophers and like dirt fairways. But I loved it, and
Speaker 1: everyone always ripped on it so hard because the conditioning
Speaker 1: was like horrible and it's just like the Free Academy's course,
Speaker 1: and I was like, no way, this is like stupid special.
Speaker 1: So I almost was like when they renovated it, of course,
Speaker 1: like I had like master plans myself and like drawings,
Speaker 1: you know, all my sketch books of like how I
Speaker 1: would do it, or how I would add nine more holes.
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm almost like sometimes all these courses
Speaker 1: get renovated and like bring some notoriety to them. There's
Speaker 1: like a part of me that's kind of sad, like
Speaker 1: it's like it's no longer my really hidden haunt that
Speaker 1: no one else likes. And that's why I love it,
Speaker 1: because it's like, you know, an independent identification of something
Speaker 1: unique and cool that means something to me. So but
Speaker 1: it's an incredible restoration renovation. So that's probably I'm probably
Speaker 1: my number one. And then like you know, if I
Speaker 1: had to put some other ones in a box, I
Speaker 1: mean I think like Yale to me, sits in a
Speaker 1: similar like culver vein, Like I think did Langford go
Speaker 1: to Yale? So I mean that one just I think
Speaker 1: about that one a lot, probably Worldwoods, probably World Woods too.
Speaker 3: Man, are you are you worried that they're they're gonna
Speaker 3: you know that's your spot?
Speaker 1: First of all, I was like shocked when I heard
Speaker 1: the like cabin. I mean it's an it's kind of
Speaker 1: an incredible story like that would I mean it's a
Speaker 1: kin to like Kaiser buying, like name what whatever, Like
Speaker 1: it hasn't I feel like this like hasn't this, Like
Speaker 1: it hasn't happened really before, where a huge entity with
Speaker 1: a track record of building new modern architecture like remote
Speaker 1: spots is like gone and bought a relic. They're not
Speaker 1: gonna mess. They're gonna That's gonna be an incredible, incredible spot.
Speaker 1: It's so special with the live oaks and the barons.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's I don't know that one. I think
Speaker 1: you know the mid mid Pines too, probably for me.
Speaker 1: I mean I know it's four courses now, but a
Speaker 1: lot of courses to me, like I look back to
Speaker 1: my junior like when did I start to recognize like
Speaker 1: golf architecture. I grew up with Fosspher Country Club, and
Speaker 1: like when you're young and you grew up at a place,
Speaker 1: you don't realize you don't play a lot of other courses.
Speaker 1: You don't know, you don't understand, like what you have
Speaker 1: in front of you is special and there's other cool
Speaker 1: stuff down the road. And so once I started playing
Speaker 1: and junior turn into like Ravislow and Pine Needles, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh Man Worldwoods. I was like, Wow, there's
Speaker 1: more than just my little backyard country club, Like there's
Speaker 1: some incredible, different cool stuff out there, Like I need
Speaker 1: to know more. So those ones that left an early impression,
Speaker 1: I mean, are still my favorites, honestly, Calvery Yale, Ravs Slope.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Phosphor is good. What a good spot?
Speaker 1: Yeah. I grew up right by on the second tier there,
Speaker 1: so that was my spot. Yeah, what are your what
Speaker 1: are your three? I need to know.
Speaker 3: That's just listen. I asked the questions.
Speaker 1: I mean Pelican, Nebraska, like like, oh.
Speaker 3: God, that place is amazing.
Speaker 1: Like those I think about all the time, like like
Speaker 1: it's not too like little remote spots can have compelling
Speaker 1: our golf architecture, Like it's not just because it's like
Speaker 1: a poor municipality, like you have to do the lowest
Speaker 1: common denominator golf architecture. Like it's possible to have both.
Speaker 1: I think so.
Speaker 2: One, I think about a ton, I think about wild
Speaker 2: Horse an irrational amount, and I think it's because like
Speaker 2: the first time I went there, I played it and
Speaker 2: I walked off and I was like, that's one of
Speaker 2: the ten best courses in America, like public courses.
Speaker 1: It's in my top ten for sure, and I.
Speaker 2: Like thought, and then like you know, a year went
Speaker 2: by and I started to doubt myself. I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: maybe not, you know, maybe I just I was, you know,
Speaker 2: it was just the moment I went back out there
Speaker 2: the summer and I was like, you know what, it
Speaker 2: might be better than top ten, and like that place is
Speaker 2: out of this world.
Speaker 1: It's Shinnakoka, the sand Hills. It's it is a dead
Speaker 1: ringer for something you'd find on Long Island, and it
Speaker 1: is like I don't usually care about conditioning, but when
Speaker 1: conditioning is like good and firm and absolutely enjoyment of
Speaker 1: like the strategy, like that's when golf becomes like next
Speaker 1: level fun and that place was insanely firm, super tight.
Speaker 1: So that you're right, Andy, that's that isn't my It's
Speaker 1: in my top ten for sure.
Speaker 2: I've said this, I think before on here, but I
Speaker 2: think sand Hills is a better golf course than it.
Speaker 2: But I if I was like presented with them both
Speaker 2: in my backyard, I would play Wildhorse more than I'd
Speaker 2: played sand Hills. And I don't know, like, and this
Speaker 2: is my problem with rankings really is like there's so
Speaker 2: many different ways to break it down, like, well, what
Speaker 2: what what whole? What course would you play if you
Speaker 2: were going to die tomorrow? Your answer might be different
Speaker 2: than what course would you play if you could play
Speaker 2: it every day?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Those are different buckets, right, And how do you possibly
Speaker 2: rank though? You know right there they go in. But anyways,
Speaker 2: Wildhorse is one I think irrationally about, like irrationally too
Speaker 2: much about.
Speaker 3: I'd say I grew up.
Speaker 2: In Lake Bluff and Shore Acres was always like the place,
Speaker 2: you know, that was the one spot that like opened
Speaker 2: my eyes that like, you know, I grew up playing
Speaker 2: Lake Bluff Golf Club, the municipal there, and I grew
Speaker 2: up working at at Conway and Nolewood but then when
Speaker 2: you go to shorre Akers, you were like, God, this
Speaker 2: this place has like some next level stuff, Like this
Speaker 2: place is different than ever everywhere.
Speaker 3: Else I've been, so that one is on there for me.
Speaker 2: And then you know, I do I love like Diamond Springs,
Speaker 2: which is a mic divrees course, and the reason I
Speaker 2: love that is because it's just like, you know, the
Speaker 2: just the maintenance of it is what I love is
Speaker 2: like single cut, you know, basically to the to the fscue,
Speaker 2: to the like the native and then really cool greens,
Speaker 2: and it's like that's really all you need.
Speaker 1: Ye good.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I don't know, those.
Speaker 2: Those are probably the three that I've come come to mind,
Speaker 2: but you know, you could do so many. I mean,
Speaker 2: Yale's incredible Yalees, Like, I mean that place, that place,
Speaker 2: after the renovation, it's gonna be one of the twenty
Speaker 2: best places in the country.
Speaker 1: That's al Like, I don't know, I get this like
Speaker 1: irrational fear about places being restored renovated to their like
Speaker 1: peak glory. Like I kind of like the bar conversation
Speaker 1: of a place that has tons of potential and is
Speaker 1: never gonna get restored. Like that's that's almost more fun
Speaker 1: to me in a way.
Speaker 3: I love speaking of that, Like, who's.
Speaker 1: Gonna I don't know, is anyone building that style of
Speaker 1: golf course right now? Like not not entirely. I mean
Speaker 1: I don't know. Some of the tree farm stuff might
Speaker 1: kind of look like that with sort of those edge
Speaker 1: drastic you know, longer bunkers.
Speaker 2: But Kai Kai Kai was telling me that it's like
Speaker 2: really really hard to build Langford Moreau style with modern equipment. Interesting, well,
Speaker 2: it's like different equipment, right, different tools. Riley John's always
Speaker 2: told me he wanted to do a course that was like, uh,
Speaker 2: completely old school, like build like horse.
Speaker 1: And plow the mules and get the Yeah, that's hilarious.
Speaker 1: I mean we might be getting to that. Honestly, we
Speaker 1: might like the fifth course in Sand Valley, like they
Speaker 1: might have to go to that, Like what's gonna, Well,
Speaker 1: we built this with like wood and copper tools by hand.
Speaker 3: Basically, what do you think about Lido?
Speaker 1: That looks insane nank god like someone, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: what's so awesome, Like I think of and I'm not
Speaker 1: comparing myself to my Kaiser by any search imagination, but
Speaker 1: like that guy started with a nine hole court like
Speaker 1: you know, and then they made the best golf in
Speaker 1: the world basically one place of mandon and no one's
Speaker 1: gonna question their you know, leadership, and then they get
Speaker 1: do some cool stuff like that. So Lito looks absolutely
Speaker 1: like that's probably my favorite golf content of the year, right,
Speaker 1: like any drone video or photo from Lido. So it
Speaker 1: almost like old like Old Mac is one of my
Speaker 1: favorite course and that sort of start, you know, feels
Speaker 1: like that, like sort of those shared fairway situations and
Speaker 1: tons of ripples and yeah, that's an incredible thing they're
Speaker 1: doing there.
Speaker 3: Old Old Mack is greatly underappreciated.
Speaker 1: I think that's that might be my favorite course abandoned potentially.
Speaker 2: I think like if if you if you were going
Speaker 2: to say which one would you play the most, I'd
Speaker 2: play that the most. I think my favorite my favorite
Speaker 2: walk is probably trails. I think the best course is
Speaker 2: packed dunes. See this is the problem. This is the
Speaker 2: problem with rankings that are it's more superlatives is a
Speaker 2: better term.
Speaker 1: I like to know what people's like, what could they
Speaker 1: play every day for the rest of their lives and like,
Speaker 1: to me, Waverley Country Club in Portland and then Proutsneck
Speaker 1: over in Maine. Those two, to me are like the
Speaker 1: ideal every day in the west of your life course
Speaker 1: is like sixty one yards golden age, super interesting, walkable,
Speaker 1: but enough terrain to keep you intrigued. Like those two
Speaker 1: to me are like and I'm sure you've seen I'm
Speaker 1: sure you've seen Waverley. Maybe you haven't been a prosnak,
Speaker 1: but I haven't.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen either. I need to go. I need
Speaker 3: to go to both.
Speaker 2: I made my first john into Maine for like twelve hours.
Speaker 3: Is I needed it?
Speaker 2: You know about ten days in Maine, But that cap
Speaker 2: arundle would fall into that bucket of like everyday place.
Speaker 1: Exactly, Like it's just tiny, like tiny but fun.
Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing.
Speaker 2: Fifty eight hundred yards is incredible because you could get
Speaker 2: around it in like three hours.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, are you ever bored at that place with
Speaker 1: that yardage? No?
Speaker 3: Never, Ian, Thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 2: People can find you and you're at sugar Loft Social Club,
Speaker 2: Instagram account, anywhere else if.
Speaker 1: They're interestingly hearing more about the field club. We bought
Speaker 1: a golf course at Sugarloaf Social Club dot com. Shoot
Speaker 1: us a note all.
Speaker 3: Right, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to another edition of the Frida
Speaker 2: Egg Podcast. Today's episode was edited by Garrett Morrison, you know,
Speaker 2: talented man behind the mic as well as you know
Speaker 2: doing producing the audio.
Speaker 3: So thank you Garrett for putting this together.
Speaker 2: As a reminder, you know, if you want to support
Speaker 2: the podcast, a great way to do so is our
Speaker 2: pro shop. It's pro shop dot Thefrida Egg dot com.
Speaker 2: There you can find our photography, our merchandise, a variety
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Speaker 2: shop right now. With the holidays around the corner and
Speaker 2: fall here, you know, pick up some new gear that'll
Speaker 2: keep you warm.
Speaker 3: Could be for on the course or off the course.
Speaker 3: We've got stuff that fits for both.
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