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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Happy Saturday.

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Speaker 2: Chuck here with the selects pick for the week, and

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Speaker 2: this week it's a pretty heavy on everyone. This is

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Speaker 2: about rape kits and the episode is how rape kits work.

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Speaker 2: And this is from April second, twenty nineteen. And the

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Speaker 2: reason that I chose to select is because it's just

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Speaker 2: a super important topic about the funding of rape kits,

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Speaker 2: the lack of funding rather for rape kits, and the

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Speaker 2: backlog of processing rape kits. And it's something that should

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Speaker 2: be known far and wide. So that's why I picked

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Speaker 2: it for this week's episode. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know,

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Speaker 2: a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's

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Speaker 3: Charles w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there. And now

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Speaker 3: whatever chipperness you might hear, my voice can decline from

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Speaker 3: here on out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Man, this this is another one of those that's uh

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Speaker 2: tough topic. It's not gonna be loaded with jokes.

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Speaker 3: No, I can't. I couldn't. I can't think of a

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Speaker 3: single one. And anytime like I started to be like,

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Speaker 3: oh maybe we should come with jokes, now, it's.

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Speaker 2: Not like we do that anyway, right, Like this would

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Speaker 2: be a good place for a joke. Let me get

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Speaker 2: our writers.

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Speaker 3: On its joke here in brackets.

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Speaker 1: Yes obviously. Uh.

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Speaker 2: I mean if you saw the title about rape kits,

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Speaker 2: hopefully that is the trigger warning you need.

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Speaker 1: But we might as well just say it out loud.

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Speaker 1: M h. Trigger warning for this one. That's all we

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Speaker 1: need to say, I think, right.

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Speaker 3: Pretty much. I mean we're talking about rape, sexual assault

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Speaker 3: in general, and specifically. I want to say, Chuck, I've

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Speaker 3: had on the list for a really long time rape

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Speaker 3: as a topic at I think it definitely deserves it,

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Speaker 3: but it's I've just been kind of walking past it

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Speaker 3: every time I go down the list, you know, right,

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Speaker 3: I think it's due, especially after this one. Yeah, but

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Speaker 3: it's it's almost like we needed to do this one first,

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Speaker 3: or else it wouldn't be stuff you should know, right,

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Speaker 3: if we didn't do something tangential, bigger topic. Sure, we'll

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Speaker 3: do that eventually. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And also this comes out this is one of those

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Speaker 2: happenstance things. As I was researching and reading this stuff,

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, you know what we should check

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Speaker 2: and see when Sexual Assault Awareness Month is?

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Speaker 1: And it turned out it's April.

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Speaker 2: And it turned out that April second, the day that

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Speaker 2: this drops is Day of Action, so they encourage people

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Speaker 2: to wear teal on April second, which is today.

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Speaker 3: I'm wearing Well it's a mint green, but it's awfully

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Speaker 3: close to teal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird how this is all coming together.

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Speaker 3: Like, yes, so you know, Action Day should be for

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Speaker 3: Sexual Assault Awareness Month. It should be like a purge,

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Speaker 3: like the Merge. Yeah, that's what it should.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen the movie, but.

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Speaker 3: I guess yeah, I haven't either, but I know the premise.

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Speaker 2: And that Sexual Assault Awareness Month is carried out by

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Speaker 2: in SVRC dot org, the National Sexual Violence Resource Center.

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Speaker 2: And also I know that we're doing a lot of

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Speaker 2: precursoring here, but there is one section here on what

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Speaker 2: to do if you've been sexually assaulted. Two dudes explaining this,

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Speaker 2: like just do this, Like we're not taking it that likely,

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Speaker 2: you know, Like we know that it is extremely difficult

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Speaker 2: to do anything much less like follow all the exact steps.

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Speaker 2: So many sexual assaults and rapes get unreported for a

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Speaker 2: thousand reasons. So we're not taking this lightly. But this

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Speaker 2: is our job, this is what we do, and this

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Speaker 2: is an important topic, so sure, please excuse two dudes

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Speaker 2: explaining a section on what to do when you're sexually assaulted.

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Speaker 3: But I think that also raises another point that I

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Speaker 3: want to touch on to Chuck. Sexual assault doesn't just

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Speaker 3: happen to women. Sure, it happens to men.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The trans community is also a big target for sexual assault, unfortunately.

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Speaker 3: So while it is largely women and from what I've

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Speaker 3: seen women between eighteen and thirty five, it hits all

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Speaker 3: demographics and targets across the spectrum of human beings, including men. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so I wanted to say that as well.

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Speaker 1: All right, now on with the show. So should we

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Speaker 1: do the history part first?

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Speaker 3: I think I was thinking, so I think we should

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Speaker 3: say what a rape kit actually is.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's something we always do wrong.

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Speaker 3: We're doing it right though we've hit everything right so far.

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Speaker 3: I think I think a rape kit, and I'm so

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Speaker 3: sorry everybody to keep saying rape kit. They're also called

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Speaker 3: sexual assault evidence collection kits. You can understand why people

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Speaker 3: call them rape kits. But from here on out, maybe

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Speaker 3: we'll just try to say kit. Sure, they are really

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Speaker 3: simply a box. I saw a shoebox size, Ed says,

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Speaker 3: microwave oven size.

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Speaker 1: Just depends on the oven.

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Speaker 3: A big old box. Yeah, and inside this box is

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Speaker 3: a all the stuff you need to collect the evidence

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Speaker 3: of a sexual assault.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that a professional uses. It's not like a home thing.

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Speaker 3: No, but it does include such thorough, step by step

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Speaker 3: directions that someone who's not specifically trained to do this

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Speaker 3: can can can carry out this kind of examination.

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Speaker 2: I wonder one does this, Like, can you buy these

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Speaker 2: and perform this at home? Is you're too A thousand

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Speaker 2: reasons why you wouldn't go into a hospital.

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Speaker 3: I think that you you can. You can buy them

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Speaker 3: from medical supply or law enforcement supply places. Both of

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Speaker 3: them sell kits, and they're actually relatively cheap. I saw

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Speaker 3: between five fifteen twenty five bucks, So yeah, you totally could.

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Speaker 3: It will still edit probably not. The defense would just

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Speaker 3: shoot holes in it all day long, and the jury

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Speaker 3: would be like, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: Which they're already looking to do.

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Speaker 3: Part of the of the process of collecting this evidence

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Speaker 3: and combining it all together to create this kit is

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Speaker 3: it begins a chain of custody. And if you do

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Speaker 3: it at home and then bring it in and they're

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Speaker 3: going to be like, come on.

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Speaker 2: Right, And there are a lot of problems with the

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Speaker 2: chain of custody that we're obviously going to cover as

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Speaker 2: well when you leave it to the professionals.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's just a big mess.

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Speaker 3: But it is a big mess. But it's still more

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Speaker 3: often than not, it seems to be. It seems to

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Speaker 3: have been a good invention, sure, and that is a thing.

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Speaker 3: It is an invention, and it wasn't always around. It's

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Speaker 3: actually a relatively new invention. It wasn't until I think

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy eight that the first ones actually came into

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Speaker 3: official use by the I believe the police department in

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Speaker 3: Chicago and then later on Illinois, which served as a

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Speaker 3: bit of a laboratory for it. And it was so

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Speaker 3: successful that within another year it sorted to spread around

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Speaker 3: the country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and just I mean it sounds like it's hard

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Speaker 2: to believe, but just collecting uh and having the tools

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Speaker 2: in a box and collecting the evidence and putting it

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Speaker 2: in a box for storage, just that alone coming around

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Speaker 2: went a long way toward helping victims be taken seriously.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, legitimizing rape and sexual assault.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's sad, but that's that's the case.

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Speaker 2: When they were first brought out, they were called vitulo kits,

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Speaker 2: in a lot of circles.

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Speaker 1: Be it t U, l l O and Louis or Lewis.

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Speaker 1: I never know.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking since season Chicago Lewis Louis.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say Louis because Chicago.

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Speaker 3: I think it'd be I E. If it were in

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Speaker 3: Chicago Louis.

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Speaker 1: All right, well we'll go with Lewis.

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Speaker 2: Let's just call him Chicago lou Chicago Loudulo. Now he

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Speaker 2: sounds like a mobster, Yeah, Chicago Louviadula.

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Speaker 3: I think the vitula is really not helping.

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Speaker 2: No, but he was not a mobster. He was actually

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Speaker 2: worked in the Chicago PDS forensic crime lab. He was

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Speaker 2: a sergeant and lieutenant who did not invent the rape kit,

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Speaker 2: but he was charged with sort of codifying it and

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Speaker 2: putting his stamp because he was one of the first

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Speaker 2: people in law enforcement that was trying to create a

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Speaker 2: standardized procedure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was already a very well respected forensic investigator,

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Speaker 3: and so for him to say, hey, I'm a big

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Speaker 3: city forensic investigator, widely respected, and this thing is the bomb. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is a great invention. We should all start using it.

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Speaker 3: And here's how it really helped spread and give it

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Speaker 3: a boost early on. But even though they were called

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Speaker 3: Vitulo kits, it's not to say like he was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I invented this colin. I think he was just known

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Speaker 3: in the mind of other law enforcement agents that they

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Speaker 3: associated him in these kits. So that's what everybody else

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Speaker 3: called it. But really, if you want to nail down

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Speaker 3: an inventor of the rape kit, it was a woman

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Speaker 3: named Martha Marty Goddard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Goddard and Btula. I read some interviews with his grandkids,

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Speaker 2: and it's like a really proud legacy. They still get

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Speaker 2: letters from people from women. Goddard as she has unplugged,

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Speaker 2: Like I saw one interview with her where they talked

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Speaker 2: about and we're going to cover this heavily later. But

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Speaker 2: the the kit backlog, she didn't even know about it

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Speaker 2: because she's like no TV, no internet, no newspapers. She

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Speaker 2: really just sort of checked out right, and she was like,

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Speaker 2: that's really sad to hear about that.

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Speaker 3: It is very sad. So I saw a quote somewhere

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Speaker 3: that I think is Betula's grandkids said that he would

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Speaker 3: be spinning as grave if you knew about this backlog,

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Speaker 3: which we'll get to later.

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Speaker 2: So Goddard was a survivor of sexual assault and she

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Speaker 2: got together with some other victims.

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Speaker 1: Basically, the writing was.

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Speaker 2: On the wall like that, you know, things weren't being

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Speaker 2: taken seriously in many police departments.

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Speaker 3: Yes, she saw firsthand that like that, that they weren't

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Speaker 3: collecting evidence correctly, that they weren't they weren't taking it seriously,

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Speaker 3: which is still a huge problem, and she's she decided

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Speaker 3: to do something about it.

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Speaker 2: Well, the first questions, and still in a lot of areas,

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Speaker 2: probably the first questions still are like, well, what was

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Speaker 2: the situation, And if it starts with well I met

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Speaker 2: a guy at a bar, then you're sort of discounted,

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Speaker 2: like out of the gate.

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Speaker 1: Very sad and very unfair.

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Speaker 2: But she formed a group called Citizens for Victims Assistants

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Speaker 2: in the nineteen seventies and went to work. Like she said,

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Speaker 2: she was doing sixteen hour days visiting hospitals, talking to cops,

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Speaker 2: going to police stations, lawyers, judges, basically learning and working

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Speaker 2: on everyone she could about how to get a better

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Speaker 2: system going. But she needed money and she got that from,

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Speaker 2: of all places, the Playboy Foundation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Hugh Hefner's foundation, his daughter Christy was friends with

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Speaker 3: Marty Goddard, and I think Playboy gave her ten which

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Speaker 3: is equal to about forty two grand in today's money. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and that was enough to go start assembling these kits

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Speaker 3: because one of the points from the outset of these

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Speaker 3: kits was that they be inexpensive because hospital they wanted

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Speaker 3: to remove as many barriers as possible for hospitals to

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Speaker 3: start implementing very smart widely. And one really easy way

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Speaker 3: to do it was to say, here, these are virtually free,

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Speaker 3: or in some cases, these are free because this community

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Speaker 3: group raised a bunch of money to purchase the implements

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Speaker 3: of these kits, put them all together, and now here

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Speaker 3: you just use them, that's all.

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Speaker 2: Which is a success story in and of itself when

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Speaker 2: you know how like big Farmer works in the medical

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Speaker 2: community in America, Like I could have seen this being like, well,

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Speaker 2: these swabs and envelopes and combs, this will be seven

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars right per kit. Yeah, it's because we put

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Speaker 2: it all on a box for you.

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Speaker 3: Marty godd had gotten the way of that from the

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Speaker 3: outset and still to this day. I mean, that's why

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Speaker 3: they're not any more than five to twenty five dollars year,

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Speaker 3: even from like a medical supplier.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she's a hashtag hero.

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Speaker 1: Are we doing that now? Uh huh? Hashtag in it? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: relate to the game, my friend as always.

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Speaker 3: Have you heard about this hashtag thing? Sure, you got

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Speaker 3: to go keep your two fingers on each hand hashtag Okay.

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Speaker 1: See, I knew you'd get a funny in there.

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Speaker 2: So they were developed before DNA evidence was even around.

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Speaker 2: So this was back when it was just like hair

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Speaker 2: and fiber fingernails, stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Still very valuable.

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Speaker 2: And I think one of the kits that's sort of

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Speaker 2: common these days is what's known as the Southwestern Sexual

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Speaker 2: Assault Evidence Collection Kit.

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Speaker 3: It's like the gold standard, I guess so.

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Speaker 2: And it's called the Southwestern Obviously it was in Texas.

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Speaker 2: The Attorney General's office there in nineteen ninety eight kind

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Speaker 2: of created this one. And that's sort of, like you said,

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Speaker 2: the one that people look to or base theirs on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because I mean there they took the groundwork that

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Speaker 3: Marty Goddard came up with, going from to all of

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Speaker 3: what you'd call in the corporate world and buzz speak,

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Speaker 3: all the stakeholders in the process of apprehending and convicting

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Speaker 3: people who are who sexually assault other people, you know,

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Speaker 3: scumbags you can say, monsters, Yeah, monsters. And she figured

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Speaker 3: out exactly how to put this together and laid the groundwork.

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Speaker 3: And then from what I understand, in the late nineties,

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Speaker 3: the Texas the Texas Attorney General's office said let's let's

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Speaker 3: let's purifize us. Let's let's make it even better, like

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Speaker 3: using what we know. And then that's what's in use

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Speaker 3: largely today. Although you're going to find different kids, there's

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Speaker 3: no there's no actual centre. Its a de facto standard, right.

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Speaker 3: And and in the same point, different hospitals you go to,

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Speaker 3: even in the same state, are going to follow slightly

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Speaker 3: different procedures. They might use slightly different kits. But some

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Speaker 3: some states have said, no, this is important enough, like

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Speaker 3: here's how you do this. Here is the law of

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Speaker 3: how you conduct a rape kit examination.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And so Goddard and Viatullo, you know, his stamp of approval,

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Speaker 2: her working hard to get these things, you know, built

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Speaker 2: from the ground up. The work that they did together

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Speaker 2: was like really set the standard in the late seventies

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Speaker 2: for this across the country, just becoming just more a

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Speaker 2: more normalized way to collect evidence and take it more seriously.

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Speaker 1: Right, it was a big, big deal, big one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not just literally having you know, all of the

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Speaker 3: implements you need to conduct this investigation, but just the

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Speaker 3: very presence of these sexual assault evidence collection hits, the

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Speaker 3: fact that they exist, says law enforcements, saying, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is a bigger deal than we've been treating it. Right,

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Speaker 3: you want to take a break, Yeah, let's do it.

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Speaker 3: We're going to take a break everybody. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if you just heard, but won't be right back. It's stuffish,

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Speaker 3: all right, chuck. So the very reason that these kids

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Speaker 3: exist is because sexual assault is a very unique kind

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Speaker 3: of crime in that the victim, the body of the victim,

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Speaker 3: is a crime scene, a walking, talking crime scene. I mean,

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Speaker 3: like if you're murdered or something, and like your body

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Speaker 3: is dumped somewhere, your body is still a crime scene,

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Speaker 3: but you're walking around, moving. You can actually contaminate the

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Speaker 3: very crime scene from your assault just by doing things

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Speaker 3: that any normal human being would want to do after

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Speaker 3: being sexually assaulted. It's, in that sense, a very unique

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Speaker 3: kind of kind of crime scene. And that's what sexual

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Speaker 3: assault evidence collection kids are for is to step by step,

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Speaker 3: methodically systematically collect that evidence and preserve it so that

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Speaker 3: it can later be analyzed and using court.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so these are the recommended steps if you've been

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Speaker 2: a victim. And like I said, there are a thousand

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Speaker 2: reasons that you would not want to do any and

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Speaker 2: all of these things, and we totally get that. But

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Speaker 2: and I think Ed puts it in a really good

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Speaker 2: way in this article. He said, to receive the best

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Speaker 2: possible care just medically for yourself and to have the

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Speaker 2: best chances of collecting good evidence, it needs to be

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Speaker 2: within a twenty four hour window ideally critical.

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Speaker 3: The twenty four is critical, and then apparently up to

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Speaker 3: three days it's still viable. But after three days most

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Speaker 3: experts like it's not going to get any as.

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Speaker 2: Far as DNA, which is the real, you know, really

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00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:58,320
Speaker 2: what you're looking for. You will be very upset, and

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Speaker 2: you may be in literal shock, You may have had

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Speaker 2: one or more panic attacks. All of these things make

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Speaker 2: it very difficult to carry out like logical steps. But

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Speaker 2: experts say that the first thing you want to do,

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Speaker 2: obviously is get some more safe as soon as you

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Speaker 2: can get away. If your attacker is around, and try

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Speaker 2: and find someone you know an advocate for you, whether

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Speaker 2: it's a friend or a family member who can kind

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Speaker 2: of be with you in the first you know, hours

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Speaker 2: after this this horrific event has happened, go to the

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Speaker 2: emergency room, even if you're not injured quote unquote physically,

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Speaker 2: like you really should go to the emergency room as

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Speaker 2: soon as you can.

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Speaker 3: This is a big one, not just because the emergency

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Speaker 3: room is where you're going to have this kid administered,

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Speaker 3: but also because it takes such tremendous reserve to draw

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Speaker 3: in such tremendous reserves to take yourself out of the

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Speaker 3: comfort and safety of your home, which is probably where

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Speaker 3: you went to not take a shower, which is another

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Speaker 3: huge step too. And to just say I'm going to

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Speaker 3: go to the emergency room and undergo this procedure and

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Speaker 3: let a bunch of strangers poke them probably and tell

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Speaker 3: them about what just happened. That's the ideal of what

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00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,879
Speaker 3: you're supposed to do. But if you look at it

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00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,639
Speaker 3: in that respect, that's just such a that's such a

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Speaker 3: huge thing on top of what just happened, that that

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Speaker 3: this is required of you to catch the person who

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Speaker 3: just did it I mean from a from a bystanders perspective,

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Speaker 3: it just makes you want to catch them even more.

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Speaker 3: You know that that's on top of the assault as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's not like the trauma is over for you,

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Speaker 2: right and anyway it may never be. But go to

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Speaker 2: the er as soon as you can if it's not right,

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Speaker 2: if you if you go to sleep and wake up

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Speaker 2: the next day, you can go to the emergency room then,

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00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,760
Speaker 2: like it's just important that you go whenever you feel

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Speaker 2: like you can do so. And like you said, it's

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Speaker 2: probably the least intuitive thing you could imagine to not

351
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Speaker 2: want to shower and bathe yourself, but that that gets

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Speaker 2: rid of a lot of evidence, so's it's terrible.

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Speaker 1: But they say please do not shower. Yeah, they say please.

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Speaker 3: Please the capital P.

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Speaker 2: If you you should keep the clothes you're wearing on

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Speaker 2: if you can. If understandably you can't or don't want

357
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Speaker 2: to save them, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Put them in a bag and take them to the

359
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:37,080
Speaker 3: er with you.

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00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you have the wherewithal to change clothes. And

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Speaker 2: this is something that they will have you do in

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Speaker 2: the hospital, have you stand over like like butcher paper

363
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,560
Speaker 2: or maybe even a towel. If you have the wherewithal

364
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,680
Speaker 2: to do that wherever you are, whether it's at home

365
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,199
Speaker 2: or in a hotel or someplace. Put that in there too,

366
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,199
Speaker 2: because when you're changing your clothes, that's when you know

367
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 2: DNA evidence can can fall out, whether it's a hair

368
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 2: or whatever, and in particles. Right, just collect everything you

369
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 2: can and put it in a bag. Certainly, do not

370
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 2: wash those clothes, and then take those with you to.

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Speaker 1: The emergency room.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the last thing you should know, just

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Speaker 2: because you're going to an emergency room, and even if

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00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:21,680
Speaker 2: you are tested with this forensic kit, you're not required

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00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:22,879
Speaker 2: to file a police report.

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Speaker 1: Ever.

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Speaker 3: That's a big one, but.

378
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Speaker 2: Especially right away, it's not like they're going to have

379
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Speaker 2: a cop in there grilling you. You can file this

380
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 2: police report whenever you want to.

381
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Speaker 3: Yeah, If you are not comfortable filing a police report

382
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 3: right then you can do what's called a Jane Doe

383
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,679
Speaker 3: or imagine a John Doe examination, where they just go

384
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 3: through all the steps and collect all the evidence, but

385
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 3: you never see a cop. They don't call the police

386
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Speaker 3: until after you've left. So that's a big one for

387
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Speaker 3: a lot of people. Sure, the ED points out though

388
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Speaker 3: in some states there is still a statute of limitations

389
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Speaker 3: of between ten and twenty one years, although some states

390
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 3: have removed the statute of limitations for a felony sexual assault.

391
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 3: But there can be a clock ticking. But we're talking

392
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 3: ten years at the least, right, Yeah, for sure. So yeah,

393
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 3: you don't have to. This isn't something you have to

394
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 3: knock out that day if you don't want to, if

395
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 3: you're not ready to. When you go to the er

396
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:28,719
Speaker 3: for this kind of examination, you are signing up for

397
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 3: a few hours. It's going to take a few hours.

398
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 3: It's not a quick procedure. And there's something else that

399
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 3: you should know that I really hope won't discourage you,

400
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 3: but you should go into it knowing it is a

401
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 3: it's an invasive procedure. They have to collect evidence from

402
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 3: everywhere that the guy who did this to you, the

403
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 3: person who did this to you was, And they're also

404
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 3: going to ask you they're going to take an oral

405
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 3: history and they're going to ask you to basically recount

406
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 3: the worst thing that's ever happened to you within twenty

407
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 3: four hours after it happened. And then they're going to

408
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 3: go over all of the spots with things like swabs

409
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 3: and tweezers and combs and things like that to collect

410
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 3: this evidence. And it's going to take a while, but

411
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 3: you should expect to be treated very gently and with

412
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 3: a tremendous amount of respect from the people who are

413
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 3: going to administer this examination. And I would guess to

414
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 3: a hospital there will be counselors available there to be

415
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 3: there with you if you don't have like a friend

416
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 3: or a family member there with.

417
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 1: You or anything.

418
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, in rural areas are where they still need to

419
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 2: do a lot of catch up work in hospitals and

420
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 2: things like that. But if you're in any major city,

421
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 2: there will almost one hundred percent chance that you'll have

422
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 2: what's called a sexual assault nurse examiner on staff. This

423
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 2: is a nurse who has received extra training on how

424
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 2: to administer this exam. Like we said before, like any

425
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 2: nurse can do this and do a great job. But

426
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 2: if you have a sa AY a sane trained person

427
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 2: on staff, then that's who you'll be seeing. And you know,

428
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 2: like I said, in rural areas, they're just it's just

429
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 2: tough to staff up for things like this, so they're

430
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 2: still doing all they can to get grant money and

431
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 2: stuff like that to get these people trained up.

432
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just a question of extra funding. Because if

433
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 3: you give a hospital funding that's set aside for sane nurses,

434
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 3: you just created a new position in a hospital that

435
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 3: wasn't there before. You've given the nursing staff there an

436
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,479
Speaker 3: incentive to go further their education, invest in their education

437
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 3: so that they can have this better job in the

438
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 3: same hospital and help people as well. So it's really

439
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 3: just a question of funding. Yeah, that's it, you know.

440
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of this stuff sadly is question

441
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: of funding. Yeah.

442
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 3: Luckily there is enough agitation at the bottom up that,

443
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 3: like the pocketbooks have kind of loosened up over recent years, right,

444
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 3: it is. It is something that hasn't been it's been

445
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 3: as the result of agitation and bad press, right right,

446
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 3: and you know the right thing to do.

447
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Consent is a big part of all

448
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 2: the entire procedure. They're going to ask you basically before everything, like, hey,

449
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 2: I have a speculum here, we need to do a

450
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 2: vaginal exam. Is that okay with you? And you can

451
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 2: say no to any and all of this stuff. This

452
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 2: is all up to you, yeah, on how you want

453
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: to proceed with this.

454
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 3: And they're going to ask for your consent for the

455
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 3: whole procedure first, and then step by step before each

456
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 3: step they're going to ask for your consent as well,

457
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 3: and they're going to explain what's coming up, like you said.

458
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and as far as the interview portion, this is

459
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 2: really important stuff as far as what will eventually wind

460
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 2: up with investigators and the questions about like were you

461
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 2: on drugs or had you been drinking? Like this isn't

462
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 2: to set you up for future, you know, grilling by

463
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: a prosecutor necessarily, but like if you you may have

464
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 2: been drugged or you may have had a drink, biked

465
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 2: or something like that. Right, So all of this is

466
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: like just super super important.

467
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 3: So they need to know. They need to say, hey,

468
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 3: future lab tech test for roof and all or something

469
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 3: like that. Whatever if that if you were in a

470
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 3: bar and you suddenly woke up on the side of

471
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 3: the road, right, if that's the kind of history they're

472
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 3: taking for you for those reasons, not not you know,

473
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: what were you doing in a bar by yourself? Yeah, yeah,

474
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 3: that's not what this is. Again, this is not a

475
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 3: detective asking you or performing this exam. They might not

476
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 3: even be aware of your case. Yet this is a

477
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 3: trained nurse or at the very least a registered nurse

478
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 3: who is performing this with one would expect a tremendous

479
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 3: amount of like compassion and respectfulness.

480
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you're going to be giving blood and urine samples.

481
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: This is super important to provide a DNA baseline. They

482
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 2: will pluck cares from your scalp, they will swab your mouth,

483
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 2: they will use a comb to collect pubic care. There

484
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 2: will be you know, we already mentioned a genital exam,

485
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 2: whether it's vaginal or anal. They really, like you said,

486
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: they just they have to go over with a sort

487
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 2: of a fine tooth comb everywhere where the assault happened.

488
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they're going to ask you awful questions like

489
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 3: where you penetrated anally, was an object used? Did the

490
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 3: perpetrator lick you or kiss you or anything like that? Right,

491
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 3: And depending on these questions, they're going to investigate further.

492
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 3: But they're they're going to follow certain steps that no

493
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 3: matter what. But then if you say, yes, the guy

494
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 3: licked my face on my left cheek, there's going to

495
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 3: be a swab on your left cheek that they otherwise

496
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 3: may not have included in the normal steps.

497
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again this is like, I mean, I can't

498
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 2: imagine having to relift something like this, And they're.

499
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 3: Right within like twenty four hours, ideally twenty four hours

500
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 3: after it happened, like the worst thing that happened to

501
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 3: you in your life. Let's talk about it here, point

502
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 3: to where it happened. Yeah, you know, from a stranger.

503
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: Well, and there are plenty of interviews that that we

504
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 2: both read where you know, women said it was it

505
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 2: was reliving it and I felt like I was being

506
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 2: even with a great caregiven, like I was being assaulted

507
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: all over again. It's just so important to try and

508
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 2: try and do if you can, if you can get there.

509
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 3: If you can't, there's no blame, there's no judgment, like

510
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 3: it's that's a that's a normal reaction. This is a

511
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 3: lot to ask from somebody, but this is what it

512
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 3: takes to to collect the evidence and preserve it in

513
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 3: a way that you can catch the person who did this.

514
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're going to test for well, it's not required

515
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 2: actually to test for STDs, but they will ask you

516
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: about STDs, I would imagine ask if you want to

517
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: be tested.

518
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 3: Sure.

519
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 2: They will offer emergency contraception as well, and you're not

520
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 2: going to be charged for that procedure or the kit.

521
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 2: Here's the thing go or you shouldn't be.

522
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 3: No, you won't be not for the not for the

523
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 3: administration of the kits. Which is that's great, that's substantial.

524
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 3: I mean it's a sixteen dollars kit. But this is

525
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 3: also four or five hours of an er nurse's potentially

526
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 3: a highly trained er nurse's time. So that's great, they're

527
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 3: not charging you. But what's what's a shame what's shameful,

528
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 3: I should say, is that you will still be charged

529
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 3: for any treatment of injuries. Say like you, we were

530
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 3: hit and you need to be treated with like stitches

531
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 3: or whatever. You'll get a bill for stitches. If you say, yes,

532
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 3: I do want anti viral drugs because I'm afraid of

533
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 3: having contracted an STD, or I do want emergency contraception,

534
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 3: They'll say here's your prescription, and the pharmacist will charge

535
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: you for that. That's not okay. As a society, we

536
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 3: should not ask rape and sexual assault victims to pay

537
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 3: for their own medical treatment directly coming from a rape

538
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: or a sexual assault. We should bear that burden ourselves,

539
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 3: and then it should give us that even slighter additional

540
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 3: incentive to go get the guy who did it right,

541
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? We should nobody should pay

542
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: a cent. And then even worse than that, I'm sorry,

543
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 3: I realize I'm standing on a pretty big soapbox right now,

544
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 3: but worse than that, Chuck. Prior to the Affordable Care Act,

545
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 3: you could not you It was possible that you would

546
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 3: be denied future healthcare coverage insurance if you were the

547
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 3: victim of a sexual assault or rape who went to

548
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 3: go get treatment because they treated it as a pre

549
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 3: existing condition. Unbelievable, a pre existing condition was rape? Can

550
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 3: you believe that?

551
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: Sadly, I can stepped down.

552
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 2: They're gonna take this kit, They're gonna seal everything up,

553
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: they're gonna store it. Everything is like, you know, all

554
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 2: the clothing and everything and all the swabs are dried

555
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: out and labeled, and then it's sealed back in that

556
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: original box as part of the I guess the genius

557
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,239
Speaker 2: of this kit was that every thing that comes out

558
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: of it goes right back in, and it is also

559
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 2: the storage device right where it's you know, labeled, and

560
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 2: then it's all shipped to local law enforcement and then

561
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 2: it's stored quite possibly till the end of time, sadly yeah,

562
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: or destroyed. We'll get to both of those things.

563
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 3: And ideally, and under just about any procedure, every single

564
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 3: person who takes custody of that is supposed to sign

565
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 3: the label on the outside of the box, so there's

566
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 3: a clear chain of custody, and it goes from the

567
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 3: er nurse to the cops, to the prosecutors, to the

568
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 3: lab to the prosecutors and so on. But there's supposed

569
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 3: to be a clear chain of custody so that there's

570
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 3: no questions about whether it was tampered with or anything.

571
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: I always that's the one thing that weirds me out

572
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: about any kind of blood sample I'm ever asked to give,

573
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: or any kind procedure I'm ever tested for, is when

574
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 2: I see them take my blood or whatever specimen and

575
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: they're writing on the little thing and it leaves the room.

576
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: I don't know why.

577
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: My first thought is always like, well, they're going to

578
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: mix that up with somebody, which.

579
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: Is not true.

580
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 2: But I'm always just like, all right, well it's out

581
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: of my vision, so I don't trust it.

582
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 3: I don't know what that is. It probably stems from

583
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 3: having been switched at birth, in the hospital. That's the

584
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 3: only explanation.

585
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 2: All Right, we're gonna take a break and we're gonna

586
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 2: come back and talk after this about the horrific problem

587
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 2: of rape kit backlog and destruction right after this. Tough.

588
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: All right, So we told you the history of the kit,

589
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 2: how it works, your ideal scenario for what you should

590
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: do if you're ever a victim, and the great ending

591
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: to this story would be is and then those kits

592
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: go off and they all get tested and they have

593
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: great conviction rates and.

594
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 3: H rate so long rate.

595
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: Sadly that is not the case, and this is all

596
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 2: over the news for years now, as it should be.

597
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: But well, first of all, this is what happens in

598
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: the ideal scenario. They do store this, it is tested

599
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: in a DNA lab and then it's checked against the

600
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: CODIS the c O d I S, the Combined DNA

601
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: Index system, that's the database from the FBI of DNA

602
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: profiles of bad people.

603
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: And if there a hit comes up, then.

604
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 2: You have a pretty good chance then of finding this person.

605
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 3: The other thing about COTIS is this, when you submit

606
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 3: a sample a DNA sample, the codis from a crime

607
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 3: like a sexual assault, and there's not a hit that sample.

608
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 3: You know, you just go okay, sorry, Cotis, can I

609
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 3: have my sample back? Like that sample stays there, and

610
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 3: so future detective to say they have a suspect or

611
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 3: somebody who comes in and as a matter of routine,

612
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 3: they run the suspect's DNA, which I think like just

613
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: a matter of course. Now, when you're charged with a crime,

614
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 3: they swab your cheek and then run it through cotis.

615
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 3: That DNA may be hit and all of a sudden,

616
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 3: this thing like you got caught robbing somebody's house, but

617
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 3: now you're up for a rape charge from two years

618
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 3: ago because your DNA was entered through this rape kit.

619
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 3: So even if you don't get a hit, that doesn't

620
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 3: mean that there's not going to be a conviction. That's

621
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 3: not like the rape kit was all for naught.

622
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, for sure. Sadly, that's not the

623
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 2: way it always works. In the two thousands, there started

624
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: to be some there were some reporters digging around, found

625
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 2: a story and found out that there are tens of

626
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 2: thousands of rape kits all over the country sitting in

627
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: warehouses and sitting on shelves for years and years and

628
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: years untested.

629
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 3: It was so bad, Chuck, that they became known as

630
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 3: the backlog, right, yeah, like some dating back to the

631
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 3: nineties where they just, like you said, sitting in warehouses untested.

632
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 3: And at first when I think some reporters started digging

633
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 3: this up and found out like, whoa, this is not okay,

634
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 3: how widespread is this and started looking around and found

635
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 3: it's like everywhere, and some towns are worse than others,

636
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 3: Like Akron, Ohio had something like three thousand, I think.

637
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: Two thousand kits in Akron, Ohio alone.

638
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 3: So Detroit had. Sorry, Akrony, I didn't mean to put

639
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 3: more on you than you had. I was confusing you

640
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 3: with Phoenix. Phoenix had three thousand kits, Dallas had four thousand,

641
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 3: Memphis has twelve thousand, and in Detroit a few years back,

642
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 3: somebody wandered into a police storage facility and was like, oh,

643
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 3: there's a seven thousand untested rape kits that have just

644
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 3: been that we just forgot we had. Here's the problem

645
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 3: with that. There's a couple of problems with it. But

646
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 3: the first one, Chuck, is that every single one of

647
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 3: those kits represents a person who found the wherewithal to

648
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 3: drag himself for herself to the er and go through

649
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 3: this hour's long procedure and suffer a second violation basically

650
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 3: is what it feels like. In order to give the

651
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 3: cops the evidence that they need, and the cops didn't

652
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 3: even bother to send it to the lab. That is

653
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 3: a third violation.

654
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

655
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 2: And the other problem is that this could be like,

656
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 2: while they're sitting in there, and this often, sadly is

657
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: the case, is that these people commit more sexual assaults.

658
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: Yep, so they could be behind bars.

659
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 3: Yeah. In Detroit, So there was eleven thousand untested kits

660
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 3: they found. Let's say that each one was a different

661
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 3: and perpetrator. The recidativism, that's a bone head word. The

662
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 3: recidativism rate they think for sexual offenders of sexual assault

663
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 3: is between five and thirty two percent over a fifteen

664
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 3: year period. So if those kits sat there untested for

665
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 3: fifteen years, that means that an additional five hundred and

666
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 3: fifty to thirty five hundred and twenty rapes were carried

667
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 3: out by the same people whose DNA was in those

668
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 3: kits untested.

669
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: Unbelievable.

670
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's unacceptable, right, And as a result, Congress

671
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 3: was like, here's one hundred and fifty million dollars to

672
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 3: get rid of this backlog.

673
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: That should solve it.

674
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 3: It did. It helped a lot, right, It got the

675
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 3: labs going and everything like that.

676
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: Right.

677
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 3: The problem is is it funded labs. That's what everybody

678
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 3: said was, well, the labs are overworked, what are you

679
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 3: going to do? So they got more technicians, they got

680
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 3: more labs, and the backlog got worked through. In a

681
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 3: lot of cases in Detroit in particular, the prosecutor, one

682
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 3: of the prosecutors there named Kim Worthy, who's another hashtag

683
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 3: hero of this story, has been like, this number is

684
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 3: going down. We're going through those kits and it's systematically

685
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 3: and methodically.

686
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: It's what it takes.

687
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 2: It takes someone or a body of people, like specific

688
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 2: not just like throwing money at something, but like specifically

689
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 2: following up on the ground.

690
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 3: Right. Okay, so the funding went toward the labs, right,

691
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: But that left another half of this formula, which is

692
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 3: a big one.

693
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: The cops. Right.

694
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 3: So this backlog got moved through the labs, but that

695
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that the cops followed up on the results,

696
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 3: and including cases where there were hits in Codis. Later

697
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 3: research by reporters found that like a lot of these

698
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 3: cases in the backlog that got worked through hadn't been

699
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,720
Speaker 3: followed up on. Yeah, which is another problem.

700
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, there have been some federal guidelines laid down since then,

701
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 2: specifically the Safer Act of twenty thirteen Sexual Assault Forensic

702
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: Evidence Reporting. Different states have new laws in place, Like

703
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 2: in New York State it is law now that requires

704
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 2: kits to be sent in within ten days of collection

705
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: and tested by the lab within three months, and they

706
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 2: set up a timeline for processing backlog kits. But it's

707
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 2: you know, it still depends on what city you live

708
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,720
Speaker 2: in and what state you live in, because it still happens.

709
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 2: It still happens a lot. It says here in twenty

710
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 2: eleven report from the National Institute of Justice, eighteen percent

711
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 2: of all unsolved rapes between two thousand and two and

712
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven involved this kind of evidence that

713
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 2: had never been processed, right, eighteen percent, yep.

714
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 3: And so in the cops defense here there they're basically

715
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 3: saying most of them are saying, Okay, so great, that

716
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 3: was great. You guys funded the lab. We are still

717
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 3: overworked and understaffed and.

718
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 1: Out of room, out of room literally to store these kits.

719
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 3: So here is another thing, right, So all this stuff went,

720
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 3: all this focus went on the backlog. As a matter

721
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 3: of fact, the third hashtag hero from this story is

722
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 3: Mariska Hargeta from Law and Order SVU. Yeah, just from

723
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 3: doing Law and Order SVU. Her eyes were so open

724
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 3: to this whole backlog problem that she started a foundation

725
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 3: called the Joyful Heart Foundation that is basically dedicated to

726
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 3: getting rid of the rape kit backlog.

727
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: Yeah.

728
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 2: Well actually that's a larger foundation, but within that is

729
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 2: in the backlog dot org. And here's what you can

730
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 2: do everyone, since it is a national awareness month.

731
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 3: First, put on something teal.

732
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: Put on something Teal on April.

733
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 2: Second, go to end the backlog dot org and click

734
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 2: on take action and there are a number of things

735
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 2: you can do. But at the bottom there's a donation button,

736
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: and donate. I set up a monthly today that as

737
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 2: far as I'm concerned, I'll donate monthly till the day

738
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 2: I die, sure, which hopefully is a long time.

739
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 3: Long long time hashtag long time.

740
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, But just go to end backlog dot org.

741
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: If you don't have money to give, there are other

742
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 2: things you can do under the take action banner.

743
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: For sure, yeah.

744
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: So back in twenty sixteen, while everybody was talking about

745
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 3: the backlog, worrying about the backlog, doing something about the backlog,

746
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 3: the Fayevel, North Carolina, Chief of Police held a press

747
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 3: conference and said, Hey, the city attorneys told me not

748
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 3: to do this, but I feel morally a moral responsibility

749
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 3: to tell the public this. But we destroyed about three

750
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 3: hundred untested rape kits in cases where the statute of

751
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 3: limitations hadn't run out.

752
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, this isn't sitting on a shelf, this isn't untested,

753
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:37,919
Speaker 2: this is we threw them away.

754
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 3: They were incinerated. That evidence has gone forever and it

755
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 3: was never sent off to a lab and the statute

756
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 3: of limitations was not up in these cases. And that

757
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 3: was huge. That was a big, a big deal. And

758
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 3: he committed his town as police department to going through

759
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 3: all those cases, contacting the victims and see if they

760
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 3: could still build a case for all them. They made

761
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 3: it a priority. But it opened Pandora's box around the country,

762
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,720
Speaker 3: and CNN got a speculum of their own and started

763
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 3: crawling around law enforcement agencies all over the country and saying, Hey,

764
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 3: have you guys ever done that? Have you ever destroyed

765
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 3: rape kits? What's your policy for that? When's the last

766
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 3: time you did it? Were any of them still within

767
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 3: the statute of limitations and they found out that it

768
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 3: happens a lot. Actually, like a lot police to make

769
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 3: room in evidence rooms, they will destroy rape kits. Some

770
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 3: of them have official policies in place. Some of them

771
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 3: is just a detective deciding that the case isn't going

772
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 3: anywhere and we'll say, yeah, you can destroy that rape kit.

773
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's a misunderstanding of what the statutal limitations is.

774
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 3: Yes, but these kits have never gone on, have have

775
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 3: never been tested, and never will be tested. That evidence

776
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 3: has gone forever, and that is even worse than the backlog.

777
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 3: Everyone is concluded, and I think rightfully.

778
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, this and like you mentioned earlier, just having

779
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,399
Speaker 2: this stuff entered into cotis is huge because let's say

780
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,399
Speaker 2: you do nab someone and it turns out that they

781
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 2: it comes up with like six hits from sexual assaults.

782
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: Over the years, like.

783
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 2: I mean prison sentences aside. The value that that has

784
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: for a victim to know that that person was caught

785
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 2: and is finally going to pay for their crime is

786
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 2: can't be measured, you know.

787
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 3: Right, and also like, if you go through this procedure

788
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 3: and you still don't get a hit in CODIS, but

789
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 3: that DNA evidence is in codis. This if this perpetrator

790
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 3: gets caught down the line, you've contributed to a much

791
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,919
Speaker 3: stronger conviction against them and probably a bigger sentence because

792
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 3: you've helped establish a pattern of criminal behavior.

793
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

794
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 3: And in fact, that's how they call the Golden State

795
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 3: killer I believe is from this backlog of rape kits

796
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 3: being put through. Guy popped up. I think they got

797
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 3: him for like twelve or thirteen rapes during his serial

798
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 3: killer career through this backlog being moved through, and that

799
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 3: opportunity is lost if you just destroy this evidence untested. Secondly,

800
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 3: it also gives it ruins any opportunity for a wrongfully

801
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 3: convicted person who's convicted previously before DNA evidence was used.

802
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:27,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's happened a lot.

803
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you destroy this evidence, it may it removes

804
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 3: that possibility as well. So I think the Justice Department

805
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 3: issued some guidelines that say you should hold rape kit

806
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 3: evidence for a minimum of fifty years or the statute

807
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 3: of Limitations, whichever comes first. And then that's that. And

808
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 3: everybody said that's really great, but we really only legally

809
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 3: have to listen to our states guidelines, which are all

810
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 3: over the place.

811
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder if any kind of like penalty and

812
00:43:58,480 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: accountability would help.

813
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,959
Speaker 3: Well, I think CNN, like crawling up everybody's butt is helping. Sure, Sure,

814
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 3: I think it's kind of opened some people's eyes. And

815
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 3: that was the same thing that brought so much attention

816
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 3: to the backlog, so hopefully the same attention will come

817
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 3: to this too. And yeah, we can start funding police

818
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 3: departments around the country to like carry the carry out

819
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 3: the legwork on.

820
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 1: Yes, I just have one more thing.

821
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 2: If you just and I imagine you could do this

822
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 2: in any given week or day now, if you just

823
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 2: type in rape kit and hit news on your search engine,

824
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 2: many articles will come up like that day of cases

825
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 2: like this. Just today there was one Austin Police Department

826
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 2: could potentially reopen dozens of rape investigations after getting a

827
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 2: backlog results from a backlog of twenty almost twenty seven

828
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 2: hundred untested kits. I believe they got a grant from.

829
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: New York.

830
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how that happened, but they got like

831
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 2: a million bucks from a grant from Manhattan to Austin, Texas.

832
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 3: Like, we got a lot of money.

833
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 2: You want some of it Austin maybe, but that allowed

834
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 2: them to test like almost twenty seven hundred kits. Another

835
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 2: story at Tucson man was convicted of raping seven women

836
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 2: over a twelve year period after police received a grant

837
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 2: to test rape kits and it said in a changed

838
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 2: mindset over which kits get tested. And then Orlando, Florida

839
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 2: man is now in jail today. He fled the state

840
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 2: and found him in Puerto Rico. And once again, this

841
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 2: was a long unsolved rape case that they know. They

842
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 2: finally cracked up in that kit, tested it and bammed.

843
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: This guy comes up. Wow, and they got him in

844
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: Puerto Rico.

845
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 3: Yep, still a territory, dufus. If you want to know

846
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 3: more about rape kits, just do what Chuck said and

847
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 3: search it on your favorite search engines news.

848
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, go to indth backlog dot org for sure.

849
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: Even better, just poke around there for a while and

850
00:45:58,239 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: put on.

851
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 3: Something to you. Yes, And in the meantime, it's time

852
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:01,919
Speaker 3: for listener mail.

853
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:04,760
Speaker 1: I don't think I have anything.

854
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 3: Teal, you can borrow the sweatshirt. Okay, it's mint, but

855
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 3: it's awfully close.

856
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not good with my colors. Emily thinks I'm

857
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 2: partially color blind. I think you might be too, might be.

858
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 2: So I'm going to call this ASMR. We've been getting

859
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 2: a lot of follow up on this from people that

860
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 2: get that tingly feeling and people like me that throw

861
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 2: up in their mouth a little bit. Hey, guys, been

862
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 2: listening for a long time. I'm always intrigued by the topics.

863
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 2: I'm a crafter, and your show always keeps my mind moving,

864
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 2: so my creativity can flow in the background.

865
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: Nice, I assure it.

866
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,240
Speaker 3: That's the ideal situation crafting.

867
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I seriously thought I was the only person who

868
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 2: experienced ASMR. The friends I've talked to about it in

869
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 2: the past thing, I'm crazy. No one around here knows

870
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 2: anything about it. I love the feeling I get when

871
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 2: I can activate the sensation. The best way I describe

872
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 2: it is like for me getting goosebumps inside my skull.

873
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: Pretty good.

874
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 3: That's a great one.

875
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: I wish I knew what that felt like.

876
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do too.

877
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 1: You know, I envy that I want this sensation.

878
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 3: I don't have it.

879
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 2: The first time I found something that triggered it, I

880
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 2: was working in a small office in the basement of

881
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 2: a hospital. It was getting repainted, and the sound of

882
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 2: the paint roller and the people near me and the

883
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 2: office set it off. First, I thought it was strange,

884
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 2: but I really enjoyed it as our office started to

885
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 2: grow up again. Wearing headphones on a regular basis and

886
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 2: listened to the entire collection of Bob Ross painting, which

887
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: I famously or not famously, but I go to sleep

888
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 2: to that sometimes on Netflix.

889
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 3: So you're not you don't have a problem with Bob Ross.

890
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 2: Oh no, I love it, Okay, very soothing to me.

891
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 2: But I don't think I mean, I don't think he's ASMR.

892
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 2: Is he?

893
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he's We didn't say that in the episode.

894
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: I didn't think.

895
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 2: So.

896
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's like a legendary ASMR trigger for some people. Legendary,

897
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 3: all right.

898
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 2: I listened to the entire collection and found the soft

899
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 2: sound of his voice in stiff bristles on the canvas

900
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: caused the same reaction. Helped me lately with my anxiety

901
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: and general stress in the office. Actually, I even created

902
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 2: a playlist of people painting. I would listen to it

903
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: when I was stuck in traffic as I'm writing I'm

904
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 2: listening to your episode, and yes, swallowing sounds can give

905
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 2: me the tingles too. Bob Ross swallows a lot when

906
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 2: he's painting, and his mic is on his collar.

907
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: I'm exciting, guys.

908
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 2: What the the swallowing? Yeah, you might have to have

909
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 2: headphones on for that. Okay, I'm so excited, guys. You

910
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 2: have changed my life. Thanks so much. Goosebump headed. Candice

911
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 2: h Tali or Katali.

912
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 3: Is uh in there?

913
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that might be her her surtin name. Yeah,

914
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 2: bearinmermaid art dot com. Nice, I'm gonna shout out your

915
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 2: craft site. It's like jewelry and things. It's not barn

916
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 2: Mermaid art that I could see. It's just a whimsical name.

917
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 1: Gotcha.

918
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, There's like it's something about painting like slows people down.

919
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 3: Like when you're painting and you're talking, you're just that

920
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 3: much calmer.

921
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 1: No one paints fast.

922
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 3: There's this dude like if like some some artists will paint,

923
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 3: do Instagram live and paint. Yeah. And I don't know

924
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 3: if you remember him or not, but the Gregory Jacobson.

925
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 3: He was the artist who came backstage at our Chicago

926
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 3: show last time. Yea yeah, okay. He did this for

927
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 3: years or for a year he had like some show

928
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 3: coming and he would just sit there and paint, and

929
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 3: you started watching him originally, and then she got me

930
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 3: into it and it was just him painting. He wasn't

931
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,720
Speaker 3: even in the shot. Normally, it's just his hand painting,

932
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 3: but he'd be talking about what he's doing and maybe

933
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 3: answering some questions. And I never really thought about it before,

934
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 3: but it is like super laid back. Something about painting

935
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 3: makes you slow, just slows you down. Well, you know,

936
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 3: you swallow loudly.

937
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 2: You never hear from a painter an artist. It's like, hurry,

938
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 2: you got to go knock this painting out right.

939
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 3: Let me put some some players on there.

940
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 1: Or maybe I don't know. I guess you could be

941
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: under a deadline.

942
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 3: And he was under a deadline farmer. He had some

943
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 3: huge show coming up, and I guess then he decided, well,

944
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 3: I think I'll add this extra complication to this, to

945
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 3: this crazy deadline. But yeah, it was interesting. Thanks a lot,

946
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 3: Candice Nay. If you want to get in touch with us,

947
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 3: you can go to our website stuff you should Know

948
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 3: dot com and you can send us a good old

949
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 3: fashioned email to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

950
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

951
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

952
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.