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Speaker 1: Breaking news. Now in the last hours, the so called

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Speaker 1: womb raider killer Lisa Montgomery is executed, the first female

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Speaker 1: federal prisoner executed in sixty seven years, first female executed

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Speaker 1: since nineteen fifty three. Becky calls her daughter's home and

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Speaker 1: cell phones. There is no answer. Becky got off for

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Speaker 1: the house to before a guards and found Bobby on

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Speaker 1: the floor. She immediately called nine one one. Becky Harper

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Speaker 1: sees her child sprawled out on the wood green floor,

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Speaker 1: wood all over the room, basically her inners exposed. She's lifeless.

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Speaker 1: That is why the death penalty was carried out on

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Speaker 1: a female federal prisoner for the first time in sixty

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Speaker 1: seven years. Because it wasn't just Bobby, Joe Stennant dead

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Speaker 1: in the floor, covered in massive amounts of blood, her baby,

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Speaker 1: her fetus, Her infant had been ripped out of her

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Speaker 1: stomach while she's alive to take the baby. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever heard of more heinous, aggravating circumstances surrounding a murderer?

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Speaker 1: Which is one of the requirements in order to grant

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Speaker 1: the death penalty with me an all star panel judge,

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Speaker 1: trial lawyer, anchor Court TV Ashley Wilcot at Ashley Wilcot

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Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor Jeff Gardier, renowned Board certified clinical psychologist,

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Speaker 1: Professor Behavioral Medicine at Truro College of Medicine at Doctor

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Speaker 1: Jeff Gardier dot com and author of the Causes of Autism.

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Speaker 1: Robert Crispin, former cop, now PI with its own investigation firm,

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Speaker 1: Crispin Investigations dot com. Percy Pitts her from the Federal

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Speaker 1: Federal Warden thirty year career in corrections, founder of Creative

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Speaker 1: Corrections Education Foundation, Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University. Author of

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Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of Poisonous Liaisons

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Speaker 1: on the True Crime Network, Joseph Scott Morgan, but first

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Speaker 1: to lead news anchor Wdbo Ray Kiputo Ray Kiputo. Lisa

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Speaker 1: Montgomery put to death after multiple stays of execution. Many

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Speaker 1: people thought it would not happen, What time, where, What

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Speaker 1: are the circumstances surrounding her execution? Nancy had happened overnighte

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Speaker 1: she was I think there was two times that the

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Speaker 1: execution was stopped, one because of COVID and and then

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Speaker 1: the other one had to do with people arguing that

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Speaker 1: she just wasn't mentally fit. To be executed, but low

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Speaker 1: be all that happened overnight, and I'll tell you there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that aren't shedding any tears for

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Speaker 1: this woman. Percy Pittser former federal warden, thirty year career

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Speaker 1: and corrections at CCEF Scholarships dot org. Percy, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. You know, I've always noticed that

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Speaker 1: the execution time is typically set at twelve o one.

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Speaker 1: Why is that, Well, I would think it's because the

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Speaker 1: earlier in the day that they're probably all the appeals

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Speaker 1: are done, and I think in this particularly one, the

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Speaker 1: suffering court even got into it and just to get

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Speaker 1: it over with. Well, you're you're right, and that the

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Speaker 1: appellate process must be complete before an execution can take place.

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Speaker 1: Twelve o one a m I might add, guys, this

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Speaker 1: woman the first female executed and sixty seven years to

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Speaker 1: get the death penalty in our country, and there's a

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Speaker 1: reason for it here. Earlier heard that Kathleen Garrett TV

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Speaker 1: show Law Solved. Take a listen to this. Three forty

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Speaker 1: three PM, Sheriff Ben Espy arrives at Bobby Joe's in

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Speaker 1: its house and immediately takes over CPR from Bobby Joe's

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Speaker 1: distraught mother, Becky Harper. Once you start CPR, you continue

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Speaker 1: CPR until they're taken to a hospital. It was pretty

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Speaker 1: apparent that there had been a violence truggle in the

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Speaker 1: room where they succurred. There was blood everywhere, spattered all

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Speaker 1: over the floor of the walls. It was an awful mess.

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Speaker 1: There was just a massive amount of smeared blood in

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Speaker 1: that room, probably an unused bedroom area. There were some

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Speaker 1: puppy cages because Bobby Joe raised and sold Red Terrier dogs.

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Speaker 1: Bobby Joe was laying on her back in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the room, was blood scattered all over the wooden floor,

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Speaker 1: and her stomach was exposed. Guys, we are talking about

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Speaker 1: the first woman executed in the country in sixty seven years,

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Speaker 1: her name Lisa Montgomery, and the death of Bobby Joe

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Speaker 1: and a bizarre and grizzly death that was straight out

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Speaker 1: to professor forensicck Jacksonville State University and author Joseph Scott

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Speaker 1: Morgan Joe Scott, what type of bleeding? Everybody that saw

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Speaker 1: this scene, the victim's mother, to be the first, I

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Speaker 1: might add, was just overwhelmed at the amount of blood.

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Speaker 1: The grizzly nature of the scene, fly Will Nancy. The

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Speaker 1: reason you're going to have all of this huge volume

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Speaker 1: of blood is this is equivalent almost too, if you

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Speaker 1: think of a disembowelment, and you know, as earlier stated,

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Speaker 1: her bowels were actually visible, and you make this abdominal incision.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine in this particular case, this is not

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Speaker 1: done obviously in a sterile surgical environment. This is done

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Speaker 1: crudely with someone who is probably very unskilled at it.

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Speaker 1: And when you do this and you introduce the sharp

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Speaker 1: instrument into this pristine abdominal environment, you're not only going

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Speaker 1: through the outer shell of the body, the skin and

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Speaker 1: the subcutaneous fat, you're also probably nicking the bowel, and

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Speaker 1: our bowels have a tremendous amount of blood vessel supply.

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Speaker 1: Then on top of that, you're going to get into

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Speaker 1: the uterus as well, which has a huge has a

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Speaker 1: huge vascular supply as well. So you've doubled this. So

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Speaker 1: you've got all of this blood that's pouring out. This

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Speaker 1: is also going to be commingled with the fluid from

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Speaker 1: the ambionic sack. It's going to be a very grizzly,

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Speaker 1: grizzly seeing Nancy, is it possible Joe Scott Morgan, Uh,

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Speaker 1: Statistically for a case like this, In a case like this,

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Speaker 1: for the baby to live, it's it's difficult because you

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Speaker 1: don't know what the level of care that's going to

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Speaker 1: be applied to this child. Now, for instance, the mother

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Speaker 1: first before they cut the baby out. Well, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: it would have to be very very quick, Nancy, because

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about is something that's referred to a

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Speaker 1: cellular respiration and the mother is actually supplying Joe Scott,

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Speaker 1: how many times do you have to tell you talking

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Speaker 1: regular people talk, you know, break it down for me.

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Speaker 1: I just this is what I'm saying. Mama is literally supplying,

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Speaker 1: supplying life to this baby, and outside of the womb,

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Speaker 1: it's very difficult for the baby to survive. And if

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Speaker 1: the mother is deceased, it would have to be a

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Speaker 1: matter of minutes, and I mean minutes quickly, minutes. Well

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Speaker 1: I think the mother is killed. How long until the

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Speaker 1: baby dies and the baby is going to dwell the

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Speaker 1: uterus living? I would say up to four to five

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Speaker 1: minutes after the mother is deceased, if in fact she

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Speaker 1: was deceased at this particular time. There's been some indication

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Speaker 1: that this person may very well have strangled the mother,

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Speaker 1: but we don't know how valid that is, and of

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Speaker 1: course that's something that would have to be determined at autopsy.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace for those of you just

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Speaker 1: joining as breaking news of many people or crime watcher's

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Speaker 1: legal legals like myself wake up this morning and find

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Speaker 1: out that the execution of Lisa Montgomery has occurred. The

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Speaker 1: first female isn't her put to death with the death

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Speaker 1: penalty in our country in sixty seven years? This maybe? Why?

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Kathleen Garrett I told

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Speaker 1: a paramedic her mother's here. Her mother says that she's

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Speaker 1: eight months pregnant, and the paramedic says, Ben, there's no

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Speaker 1: baby here. Here's the umbilical cord. It's been cut. You

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Speaker 1: have to look for a baby. Bobby Joe's abdomen is

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Speaker 1: sliced open in what appears to be a crude cesarean section.

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Speaker 1: It was jagged. It was in the lower abdomen. You

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Speaker 1: could see where the knife had started and stopped and

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Speaker 1: would start again eventually taking this large, large opening. It

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Speaker 1: just wasn't like a surgical doctor would do. This was

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Speaker 1: a pretty rough living fed appeared to be from somebody

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Speaker 1: that was very inexperienced, was delivering a child, display valiant

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Speaker 1: efforts to save her. Bobby Joe dies to the hospital,

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Speaker 1: but doctor said the missing baby may still be alive

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Speaker 1: and an urgent need of medical attention. You are hearing,

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Speaker 1: I'm a friend, Kathleen Garrett at TV show solved to

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Speaker 1: a longtime colleague and renowned psychologists Professor Behavioral Medicine at Touro,

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Speaker 1: doctor Jeff Gardier. Doctor Jeff, you know, you and I

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Speaker 1: go back a long way analyzing cases. Very often we disagree,

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Speaker 1: but you've got to agree that whoever did this, they're

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Speaker 1: not crazy. This had to be thought out, This was

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Speaker 1: well planned, and they managed to abscond and invade police

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Speaker 1: with not only getting away from a murder scene, but

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Speaker 1: taking the baby they knew enough to, as you heard,

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Speaker 1: cut the umbilical cord. This is no idiot, This is

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Speaker 1: not some crazed person. And what I'm working up to, Jeff, is,

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Speaker 1: when you and I were recovering the Scott Peterson case,

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Speaker 1: one of the zany theories. So I thought at the

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Speaker 1: time that the defense came up with after trying out

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Speaker 1: multiple defense theories was that somebody kidnapped Lacy in order

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Speaker 1: to get her baby, and of course, the physical evidence

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Speaker 1: disproved that because the baby was still in her uterus

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Speaker 1: when Lacy was put into the San Francisco Bay we

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Speaker 1: know that. So doctor Jeff Gardier at the time, we

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Speaker 1: pooh pooed it because who would do that. Well, I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you who would do that, Lisa Montgomery. That's what

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Speaker 1: kind of a mindset is that you want a baby

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Speaker 1: so badly you will not only commit murder, but in

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Speaker 1: this grew some grizzly manner. Well, at some point Nancy,

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Speaker 1: her defense attorneys asserted that she may have been psychotic

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Speaker 1: when this was going on. We know, in something so

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Speaker 1: heinous to do something like this, certainly there is some

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Speaker 1: mental instability. So the question really does becoming to keep

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Speaker 1: it concise. Of course, how disturbed was this woman emotionally?

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Speaker 1: Was she psychotic at the time. All of that still

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Speaker 1: tells us this was a completely heinous crime. And again

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Speaker 1: her attorneys are saying that she had a lifetime of abuse.

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Speaker 1: But there were victims here, the baby and the mother,

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Speaker 1: and that's what has to be accounted for. Doctor Jeff Gardier,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're the shrink, not me. But let me

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Speaker 1: just stop you in your tracks, doctor Jeff, because you're

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Speaker 1: telling me that this killer at Lisa mcgommery went psychotic

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Speaker 1: and then once she committed the murder and got the

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Speaker 1: baby cut the abilical cord, then the psychosis suddenly ended.

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Speaker 1: Is this like a temporary psychosis that I only lasted

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Speaker 1: long enough for her to commit the murder. Because I'm

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Speaker 1: as a layperson, I'm just a trial lawyer, I'm having

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Speaker 1: a really hard time swallowing that theory as as I

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Speaker 1: am Nancy, as I said the lawyers, you haven't totally

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Speaker 1: offt your mind. This is what her attorneys are put

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Speaker 1: up as her defense, that you may have been psychotic

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Speaker 1: at that time. I don't doubt that this is a

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Speaker 1: woman to do something so completely heinous, so completely crazy

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Speaker 1: that it was not psychotic. But it was crazy and

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Speaker 1: may have been based on a lifetime of abuse. But

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Speaker 1: as I said, there were real victims of this crime. Guys,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Kathleen Garrett at Solved.

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Speaker 1: The doctor said, Chriff, you're running out of time. You're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to find this child very fast. Search of

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Speaker 1: the residents as well as the neighboring area was conducted

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Speaker 1: and the unborn child had not been found. The only

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Speaker 1: information initially obtained during the neighborhood canvas was that a

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Speaker 1: small red car had been seen at the residence earlier

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Speaker 1: in the afternoon. We sealed off a big portion. Let's

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Speaker 1: give more. I had a lot of volunteers looking in dumpsters,

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Speaker 1: looking in the river, looking everywhere possible. They're going to

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Speaker 1: have been a baby that would have been totally away.

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Speaker 1: As the pressure amounts and the case goes more complicated,

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Speaker 1: the sheriff calls for help. It was determined very early

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Speaker 1: on that more investigative officers were needed in this investigation.

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Speaker 1: I suggested to the sheriff that we activate the initial

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Speaker 1: response team of the Northwest Major Case Squad. So the

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Speaker 1: search is on. Is the baby alive? Now? Why this case,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to all other cases, did the defendant, Lisa

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Speaker 1: Montgomery get the death penalty? Which, let me refresh you

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Speaker 1: is a lethal injection in this jurisdiction that consists of

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Speaker 1: three different medicines. One is course potassium chloride that stops

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Speaker 1: the heart, the other is my dazz A line which

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Speaker 1: is a sedative, and the third one is a procuronium

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Speaker 1: bromide which causes muscle paralysis, including your heart. That has

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Speaker 1: just happened in the last hours in the case if

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Speaker 1: the first woman executed in the US under the death

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Speaker 1: penalty in sixty seven years, Lisatgomery and the death of

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Speaker 1: Bobby Joe Stinnett. Now I'm going to go to Ashley

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Speaker 1: Wilcot Court TV anchor, judge and trial lawyer, but first

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Speaker 1: listen to this from Solved. At seven eighteen pm, four

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Speaker 1: hours after the nine one one called, a forensic team

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Speaker 1: begins a detailed sweep of the crime scene. It is

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Speaker 1: the bloodiest one they have ever seen, Serge and Dave

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Speaker 1: Merril to Howard Trope started telling me investigators from Ottawa

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Speaker 1: County it contact with him to borrow additional luminol to

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Speaker 1: spray for blood. Cluminal is the chemical use to high

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Speaker 1: blood and blood spatter. They wanted a quart or something

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Speaker 1: as much as they possibly could. That would be an

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Speaker 1: exceptional luminal used on a crime scene. There was a

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Speaker 1: lot of blood that was lost. There were slippies you

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Speaker 1: could see where they slept on the floor and they

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Speaker 1: had rastled around, and there were clots of blood the

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Speaker 1: size of popkins scattered around the room. The blood samples

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Speaker 1: are rushed to the lab for DNA analysis. Bobby Joe's

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Speaker 1: computer is sent to a computer forensic lab in Kansas City,

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Speaker 1: but the crime scene yields few other clues. Right there,

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Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, I would hammer that hammer that hammer that

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Speaker 1: to a jury. Why because now we know that the

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Speaker 1: victim in this case, eight months pregnant, Bobby Joe Stinnett,

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Speaker 1: trying to save her baby, fought for her life. She

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Speaker 1: was killed when this. Her tummy was ripped. That means

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Speaker 1: she was alive when the attack occurred on her stomach.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine that, Ashley, No, no, no, no, nobody

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Speaker 1: can imagine that. No normal person, no average person, no

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Speaker 1: rational person can imagine that someone had planned. This had

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Speaker 1: to have been planned. You don't just pick a victim

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Speaker 1: and say, oh, look they happen to be pregnant. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I'll go steal o their baby. This is planned. I

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Speaker 1: want a baby. I don't care the suffering I impose

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Speaker 1: on the eighth month pregnant woman. I don't care the

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Speaker 1: pain that she's in. The Aggravated circumstances cause this and

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Speaker 1: crime upon crime. Not only does she murder the mother.

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Speaker 1: Not only does she cut the fetus from the mother's

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Speaker 1: belly while the mother's likely alive, not only does she

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Speaker 1: take the baby. All of these things aggravated circumstances amount

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Speaker 1: to a death penalty. Senate Crime period Crime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace in the last hours, the first execution of

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Speaker 1: a female on death row is sixty seven years has

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Speaker 1: gone down in the early morning hours. It was about

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Speaker 1: one thirty am when prison officials announced that this perp,

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Speaker 1: Lisa Montgomery, was in fact executed and is dead. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to criminal pursuit. There was no sign of

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Speaker 1: forced entry at the residence, indicating that whoever had committed

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Speaker 1: to crime was possibly invited into the residence, and there

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Speaker 1: was not a murder weapon located in the residence. At

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Speaker 1: the hospital, strands of long blonde hair are found clutched

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Speaker 1: in Bobby Joe's hands. Your paper bags over her hands

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Speaker 1: and when the nurses told me that they'd seen hair

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Speaker 1: strands in her hands when she come in. The cuts

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Speaker 1: and literature marks on Bobby Joe's body suggests she put

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Speaker 1: up a desperate struggle to protect her baby. The victim

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Speaker 1: had cut Mark's knife wound on her fingers, which are

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Speaker 1: problem and called defensive wounds, where she was trying to

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Speaker 1: help Ward off the knife and she was grabbing it

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Speaker 1: the knife and cutting her own fingers. The feet were

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Speaker 1: completely covered in blood and as you could see that

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Speaker 1: blood had come up between the toes, which told me

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Speaker 1: if she had tried to stand and maybe head stood

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Speaker 1: got her feet flat on the floor. Can you even

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Speaker 1: imagine at late in my pregnancy with the twins, I

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Speaker 1: was in a wheelchair. I would have to be carried

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Speaker 1: in a wheelchair from the makeup room all the way

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Speaker 1: to the set, Get in the chair, perform our program,

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Speaker 1: deliver our program, get back in the wheelchair and come home.

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Speaker 1: And this woman is slipping in blood all over the floor,

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Speaker 1: fighting to save for a baby. We also learned that

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Speaker 1: there were ligature marks on her neck. Straight out to you.

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of

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Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. What does it all mean? Well,

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Speaker 1: it means that there was an awareness there. Remember what

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Speaker 1: the investigator just mentioned just a second ago, that awareness

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Speaker 1: by him on the part of the victim. On Bobby Joe,

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Speaker 1: she was fully aware in cognizant of the fact that

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Speaker 1: her life was in danger, in the life of her

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Speaker 1: inborn child was in danger. She had these defensive marks,

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Speaker 1: these cuts on her hands and rightly said by him,

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Speaker 1: this idea that you're trying to fend these these slices off.

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Speaker 1: And that's what happened. Also to a point that I'd

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Speaker 1: made earlier, Nancy, there is evidence that, and I guess

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Speaker 1: in a last ditch effort, maybe she attempted to strangle

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Speaker 1: this poor woman, because they stated that there were actually

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Speaker 1: literature marks around her neck, and that I think that

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Speaker 1: probably going forward, you know how frenzied this whole event

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Speaker 1: is where she changes from actually attempting to cut this

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Speaker 1: woman open while she is alive, mind you, to this

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Speaker 1: idea that she attempted to strangle her as well. I

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Speaker 1: think the big key here is to try to find

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Speaker 1: out at what point in time these events occurred. Was

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Speaker 1: she actually dead, was she actually did at the moment

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Speaker 1: Tom and wish her abdomen was finally sliced open straight

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Speaker 1: out to Robert Crispin and Crispin Investigations dot com former

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Speaker 1: cop Now investigator. Where did the police start? What do

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Speaker 1: they do now? Well, Nancy I'll tell you from being

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Speaker 1: on several homicide scenes and walking into some pret brutal

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Speaker 1: brutal scenes, one thing that was importantly said is she

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Speaker 1: probably knew her her perpetrator. The crime occurred inside the house.

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Speaker 1: So me as an investigator looking past all the blood,

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Speaker 1: passed all the carnage to me, says, I think this

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Speaker 1: victim knew who killed her. So in this particular case,

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Speaker 1: Montgomery led police right to her, unbeknownst through a digital footprint. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we just heard that, you're dad on Robert Crispin. Robert

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Speaker 1: joining us from Crispin's investigations, explain Ray Kimputer joining me

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Speaker 1: lead anchor w DBO. How as Crisp and just said,

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Speaker 1: did Lisa mcgomery just picked to death in the last

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Speaker 1: hours leeue cops right to her. Well, there was a

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Speaker 1: digital trail. The two actually met a dog show and

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Speaker 1: they were conversing online. So you know, between that and

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Speaker 1: all the pieces, all these breadcrumbs, per se were left

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Speaker 1: out that it didn't take police terribly long to track

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Speaker 1: her down in Kansas. Now, she wasn't close by where

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Speaker 1: this happened, she was hours and hours away. But but

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Speaker 1: that digital trail brought police right to her doorstep. It

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Speaker 1: really did, Jacuelus cut to our cut eight. This is

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Speaker 1: Kathleen Garrett on the TV show Solved. Wanted the exact

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Speaker 1: web address of the breeders board, which I gave him,

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Speaker 1: and I spelled out Darlene Fisher and also her email address,

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Speaker 1: which was Fisher four Kids, which I thought was rather

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Speaker 1: odd because it sounded like she was fishing for a

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Speaker 1: kid or a child. I told him that the IP

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Speaker 1: address appeared under every post and that I could give

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Speaker 1: them the IP address. Ipadress is key information because there's

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Speaker 1: only one computer. If we can trace that computer. As

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Speaker 1: soon as we had that, I thought, if this baby's

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Speaker 1: alive and Darlene Fisher is the one who took it,

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Speaker 1: we can find her because we'll have her computer. Owen

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Speaker 1: quickly traces the IP address to Darlene Fisher's Internet provider.

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Speaker 1: I was able to determine it was assigned to QUEST

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Speaker 1: Communications out of Virginia. Passed the information onto Special Agent

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Speaker 1: Lapanovich and he called me later and he had Quest

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Speaker 1: Communications on the phone. I explained to them that the

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Speaker 1: nature of the situation that you had a murdered woman,

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Speaker 1: that fetus had been cut from her and they thought

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Speaker 1: that the baby would be viable and if this was

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Speaker 1: an emergency, and we would provide them with paperwork, search warrant,

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Speaker 1: grand jury subpoena down the road, and so they were

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Speaker 1: very cooperative. Well there you hear it. And before I

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Speaker 1: get into the forensic nature of finding an IP address,

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Speaker 1: FYI your computer, you're a laptop, your iPad. Everyone has

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Speaker 1: a unique IP Internet Provider address. It's like a fingerprint.

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Speaker 1: So if you think you're getting away with something online,

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Speaker 1: you're not too. Doctor Jeff Guardier renounce psychologists joining us.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Gardier, have you? I find this very interesting, but

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Speaker 1: you probably have a better grasp of what it means.

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Speaker 1: The screen names people pick. I have one screen name

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Speaker 1: that my first one ever on Aol dot com that's

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Speaker 1: based on a ship, my favorite Shakespearean character, and anybody

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Speaker 1: that knows me wouldn't know what it was. So what

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Speaker 1: is it meaned? She has fisher four kids, like she's

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Speaker 1: trying to find a child. That's exactly what it is.

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Speaker 1: And so people sometimes use the screen names to bring

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Speaker 1: the best of themselves out that they wish that they

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Speaker 1: could live up to and actually surpass, as Nancy. I

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Speaker 1: know you've done, but there are other people who are

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Speaker 1: diabolical in the names that they choose, and in many

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Speaker 1: ways gives us a clear indication as to what it is,

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Speaker 1: what that desire is, what is that dark secret, what

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Speaker 1: is the heinous perhaps behavior that they're looking to engage in.

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Speaker 1: And so that's how we know that where there is smoke,

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Speaker 1: there's fire. Do you think it's how they want to

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Speaker 1: be perceived the screen name. I think that any and

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Speaker 1: you know this too, anyone who engages in these types

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Speaker 1: of crime are screaming out for help. They may not

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Speaker 1: be psychotic, but certainly there is a mental instability to

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Speaker 1: doing something like this. So they start throwing out those

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Speaker 1: breadcrumbs even before they commit that particularly, say, right, hey,

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Speaker 1: doctor Guardier, do you remember when you and I covered

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Speaker 1: the allergist that killed his wife and his screen name

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Speaker 1: was casual Guy two thousand. He was married with children,

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Speaker 1: but his screen name was casual guy because he was

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Speaker 1: looking for a casual sex Anthony Weener who was convicted,

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Speaker 1: remember his name was Carlos Danger and he was convicted

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Speaker 1: of various sex issues online to put it euphemistically, So

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Speaker 1: your screen name tells a lot. And this part Lisa

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Speaker 1: Montgomery just put to death screen name Fisher for Kids.

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Speaker 1: She did a lot more than fish for children. According

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Speaker 1: to prosecutors, she ripped a baby out of a living

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Speaker 1: mom's stomach. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Thanks again for

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Speaker 1: being with us many times. I would have a hard

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Speaker 1: time telling Gerard's facts because they could be very distasteful,

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Speaker 1: almost intolerable. But the reality is, you have to know

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Speaker 1: the full and we have to know why this woman

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Speaker 1: was put to death just hours ago. Straight back out

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Speaker 1: to you, Ry Kiputo, Lady News anchored WDBO. How did

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Speaker 1: Lisa Montgomery Lord the victim Bibby Ji Stine intimating well

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Speaker 1: through their love of dogs. They had initially met at

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Speaker 1: a car dog show and they had conversed. I believe

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Speaker 1: it was like a forum for people who loved dogs,

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Speaker 1: so there was that connection. But also Lisa Montgomery had

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Speaker 1: lied to her victim and told her she was pregnant too,

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Speaker 1: So you know, between the pregnancy thing, which is a

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Speaker 1: big deal in a woman's life, and then also their

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Speaker 1: love for dogs, they developed a report. It allowed Miss

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Speaker 1: Montgomery to actually gain access to the victim's house. So

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be really, really hard. Ashley Willcott to argue

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Speaker 1: any psychotic break that doctor Jeff Gardier pointing out was

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Speaker 1: used by the defense that she had a psychotic break

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Speaker 1: for this tiny period of time during the murder, when

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Speaker 1: she had been laying the trap for days and days

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Speaker 1: and days, luring the victim because they were both into dogs,

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Speaker 1: claiming she also was pregnant. All the lies preceding the

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Speaker 1: murder show premeditation. You can't plan a murder like this

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Speaker 1: if you are insane, which in our country is, you

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Speaker 1: don't know right from wrong at the time of the incident.

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Speaker 1: You know, you just took all the words out of

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Speaker 1: my mouth because I was just going to say, let's

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Speaker 1: look at it strictly legally and exactly what you said, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: First of all, whether or not they understood right from

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Speaker 1: wrong is specifically right at the time of the crime. Right,

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Speaker 1: and so they may be rational before, rational after, but

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Speaker 1: not right at the time. But the way that this

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00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: state proves, oh, that doesn't fly. That's not true. In

430
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,479
Speaker 1: this case. It was premeditated. Number one. All of those steps,

431
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: finding someone, getting to know them, lying about also being pregnant,

432
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: finding things in common to get close to get access

433
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: to their victim. All of those things do show premeditation.

434
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: But remember Nancy at the time of the crime, so

435
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: I would suggest there's premeditation because she went to the

436
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: home she found her. She specifically went to her with

437
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: the intent to take the baby. That is not a

438
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: psychotic break. That is all factual showing she knew what

439
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: she was doing. Straight back to special Guests joining us

440
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: at Percy pittser Federal Warding for thirty years career in

441
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: Corrections at CCEF Scholarships dot Org. Percy, again, thank you

442
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: for being with us. Why do you believe so few

443
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: women are put to death under our country's death penalty? Well,

444
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's it's something new. I mean,

445
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: like you said, sixty seven years and the female has

446
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: been executed, and you know, people, I think I'm more

447
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: reluctant to execute a female, you know. And why is

448
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:59,479
Speaker 1: my question? Probably politics? Probably society. You know, there's been

449
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: eleven that executions in the last eighteen months. Yes, Nancy, Nancy,

450
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: many times, many times we see that women who have

451
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: committed these heinous crimes, certainly many of them come from

452
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: very abused backgrounds. And therefore, since we do know that

453
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: there are still prejudices and treating women as second class citizens.

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00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: We tend to see that even though there are victims

455
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: of and as we saw in this case, terrible victims

456
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: of this particular crime are the crimes that many of

457
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: these women commit. We see them as also being victims

458
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: who are acting out, who are abused, and that's one

459
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: of the reasons that we see less women receiving capital punishment.

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00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: So you're saying that many women that end up in

461
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: jail in prison have had horrible backgrounds such as being

462
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: abused and so fourth, now, in my mind, that does

463
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: not in any way negate the intent to murder this

464
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: pregnant mom and the very long scheme this woman, Lisa Montgomery,

465
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: came up with luring and lying to the victim to

466
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: gain access to her home. Take a listen to our

467
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: cut fifteen. As a matter of fact, this is exactly

468
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: what was argued. And then a last ditch effort at

469
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: Lisa Montgomery's sister comes out describing what she says it

470
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: was an abusive childhood. Listen. I am here because I

471
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: want people to understand the creature that my sister endured

472
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: her whole life, and that the thief that had let

473
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: her down over and over and over again, the community

474
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: had really let her down. The state of Kansas had

475
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: really let her down. From her mother who's supposed to

476
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: look her and protect her, to that didn't to a

477
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: father who was supposed to be there and protect her,

478
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: and he abandoned her. To the police officer that she

479
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 1: told that she was being raped and he drove her

480
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: to her house and dropped her off and drove away.

481
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: To the judge that had heard from Judy, her mother

482
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: that her stepfather was raping her, and he had said,

483
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: why didn't you report this? But then he did nothing.

484
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: You are hearing the claims the last ditch effort by

485
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: the sister Alsa Montgomery, claiming her sister should not be

486
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: put to death because she was abused as a child.

487
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: I hear that, and it breaks my heart to hear

488
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: anyone as abused as a child. But that in no

489
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: way negates the intent to brew murder this young woman,

490
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: to rake a puto wdbo. What about the baby? The

491
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: baby Dancy is now no longer a baby. It's a teenager.

492
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,439
Speaker 1: She's sixteen years old, and she lives with her father.

493
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: And if there's any silver lining to this, it's that

494
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: that that child is grown up in She's still alive

495
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: and she has her wife ahead of her. So the

496
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: baby is now doing well and is now a young team.

497
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to negate the victim's life because so

498
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: much focus has been on what the defendant did. This

499
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: young woman fought for her life and to save her baby.

500
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: I can only imagine the terror going through her mind

501
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 1: when she was attacked. Take a listen to our friends

502
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: at k MBC nine, cut thirteen. It took the jury

503
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,919
Speaker 1: less than five hours to reach their verdict. Montgomery's eyes

504
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: were downcast and she cried quietly as the judge read

505
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: the decision. Death for Lisa Montgomery and a lifetime of

506
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: pain for her victim's family. This case has finally come

507
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: to a close, but we will never stop missing Bobby Joe.

508
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 1: She was a sweet and loving wife, daughter, and sister

509
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: and would have been a wonderful mother. Becky Harper is

510
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: the mom of twenty three year old Bobby Joe Stinnett,

511
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: the grandmother of Victoria Joe. Becky found Bobby Joe's bloody

512
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: and battered body in her skid Moore, Missouri home on

513
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: December sixteenth, two thousand and four. Victoria Joe was recovered

514
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: the next day at the Melbourne, Kansas home of Lisa Montgomery.

515
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: Montgomery said, the baby was hers. It's a crime and

516
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: so vile, so shocking, and it was premeditated. You can

517
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: hear the victims mother hardly able to go on and

518
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: speak following that jury verdict that handed down a death penalty.

519
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: Remember the definitive this case drove about one hundred and

520
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: seventy miles from Melverne, Kansas to get to Missouri to

521
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: murder the victim in this case and cut her baby

522
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: out of her stomach. In the last hours, the first

523
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: woman sixty seven years has been put to death in

524
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: a federal facility and Tarra Hote, God be with the

525
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: victims and their families now Nancy Gray's crime story signing

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00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,