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Speaker 1: M what's in quarantine? My GOP legislators. Hello, dear friends.

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Speaker 1: I made the previous joke about Ted Cruz quarantining and

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Speaker 1: then being exposed again and immediately re self quarantining, back

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Speaker 1: in an earlier distant age, when such things were a

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Speaker 1: little bit more funny seeming. We are not in a

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Speaker 1: position where that's super funny right now. So I would

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Speaker 1: like to replace the bit that Sophia and I did

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Speaker 1: about that with this new bit, which is a joke.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, there's this pirate and he walks into a

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Speaker 1: bar and the pirates. The bartender looks at the pirate

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Speaker 1: and he's got like a steering wheel in his pants,

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Speaker 1: and the bartenders like, hey, what do you well you

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Speaker 1: got that steering wheel and your pants for? And the

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Speaker 1: pirate responds, yard tis driving me nuts. That is the joke.

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Speaker 1: Please enjoy the rest of this episode. I'm Robert Evans.

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Speaker 1: This is Behind the Bastards podcast about Terrible People. Here

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Speaker 1: with me, Sophia Alexandra. Yeah, I'm so excited to be here.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Robert, Sophie, thank you. I did

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Speaker 1: a musical intro for you, just doing mouth sounds. I

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Speaker 1: noticed it and it was good, and he didn't like

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Speaker 1: malfunctioned like a broken robot like you did last time

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Speaker 1: when you tried to intro. So this is really a

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Speaker 1: step up. I've I've decided to turn a new leaf

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Speaker 1: professionally because I think it's important to be professional. So

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Speaker 1: in the spirit of professionalism, do you want to play

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Speaker 1: with the switch blade a stranger sent me in the mail? Yes,

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Speaker 1: please you try. I got a switch blade so every

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Speaker 1: time I come back to l A, I get new

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Speaker 1: fan packages and this one was just a switch blade. Um,

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Speaker 1: so that's pretty fun. We've been carrying it around playing

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Speaker 1: with it. Didn't know how to close it for a while,

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Speaker 1: so it was just waving it around. Sophie is trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out how to close it. Now it's a

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Speaker 1: good time. Yeah, I'm excited to figure this puzzle out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Chris Goddard like three seconds, Chris immediately, Chris our editor,

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Speaker 1: immediately figured out how to close it. The rest of

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Speaker 1: us were in this particular early me shamefully couldn't figure

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Speaker 1: it out. So I was just I was just waving

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Speaker 1: an open knife around for a while, like a pinching situation,

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Speaker 1: and just like we're good with oshow right, Sophie. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Sophie says, everything I do is fine. So, Sophia, have

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Speaker 1: you heard about non Dram Moody? No? Oh boy, Well

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Speaker 1: he's the Prime Minister of India, and you heard about

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Speaker 1: how like a couple of couple three weeks ago, there

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Speaker 1: was that umagram in uh New Delhi where like mobs

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Speaker 1: of angry Hindu extremists were chasing Muslims through the street

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Speaker 1: and killed dozens of them. Um. Not as familiar as

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Speaker 1: I should be. Oh boy, Yeah that happened. Um, And

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about everything that led up to

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Speaker 1: that happening. Um. So this is gonna be a fun one.

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Speaker 1: Fascism come. You know how sometimes countries are like functioning

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Speaker 1: democracies for a long time and then a fascist gets

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Speaker 1: in charge and you realize that, like, oh man, everybody

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Speaker 1: was still way more racist than I gave him credit for. Shit.

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Speaker 1: You know that happens in some countries. What do you mean?

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Speaker 1: And where I don't can't relate to that at all.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday we're talking about something that has only happened in

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Speaker 1: India and nowhere else, and it's currently not ongoing, yes,

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Speaker 1: anywhere near or around US. I love talking about things

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Speaker 1: that every single person listening to this podcast hasn't experienced

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Speaker 1: in their own country. That's my favorite thing to talk

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Speaker 1: about on this podcast. Good times. So yeah, hey, just

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Speaker 1: quick question, how many dead babies in this episode? I

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Speaker 1: just need to know how much to steal myself for this.

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Speaker 1: There's like one paragraph we talk about a couple, but

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Speaker 1: other than that, it's mostly the stution of murdered adults. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty light on that. Okay, do you like me

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Speaker 1: more or less now that you're only having me? Now

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Speaker 1: that you're not e me on only dead children episodes?

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Speaker 1: You know what it is, Sophia. I feel like I

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Speaker 1: feel like you know when you when you when you

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Speaker 1: get into a new relationship with somebody, like you stay

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Speaker 1: with what's comfortable for a while, And so we stayed

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Speaker 1: on the dead baby train for a little while because

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Speaker 1: it made you feel safe. Could make me feel safe.

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Speaker 1: But now I'm willing to experiment with fascist foreign political leaders. Oh,

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Speaker 1: you want to invite a fascist into our relationship? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I do. There's always a point in every relationship where

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Speaker 1: you invite a fascist strong man and you freaky, let's

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Speaker 1: do this. That's why they keep winning, actually, because you

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Speaker 1: just want to bring him in. You can't keep him

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Speaker 1: out of your bedroom. You just like to dom and

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that about you. Oh boy, this is gonna

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Speaker 1: feel so much less comfortable after we get to all

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Speaker 1: the murdered people. I mean, that's why I'm really getting

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Speaker 1: it in right now. So I'm gonna start by talking

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Speaker 1: a little bit about Nazism in India. As you know,

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Speaker 1: big fan, big fan of Nazism in India are really

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Speaker 1: as a June nothing warms in my heart. So Nazism

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Speaker 1: in India have a long, strange history that's really really

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Speaker 1: difficult to talk about. As we discussed in our Savitri

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Speaker 1: Devi episodes, the O G Nazis were obsessed with India

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Speaker 1: as the homeland of the ancient Arians that they idolized.

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Speaker 1: Uh and the S S on an Airba, which was

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Speaker 1: like the s S Archaeological Division, actually sent expeditions into

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Speaker 1: Tibet and northern India to seek out the origins of

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Speaker 1: their mythical superman. So like, how heartwarming that they had

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Speaker 1: enough time to like follow this beautiful they really thread

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Speaker 1: dial they were like murdering all across Europe. Is just

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Speaker 1: so sweet that they were like you know what, let's

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Speaker 1: explore a little bit of some something mystical. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: was when they were sending this at was like kind

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Speaker 1: of the slow murder period where they were like they

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Speaker 1: hadn't because there weren't that many like Jewish people actually

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Speaker 1: in Germany proper, so they really hadn't ramped up the

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Speaker 1: killing yet and it were mostly doing weird ship and

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Speaker 1: murdering their political opponents and then pre crystall locked. No,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's pre um invasion of Poland and stuff,

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Speaker 1: so it's like it's like pre the start of actual hostilities.

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Speaker 1: So they they're they're definitely killing a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: but like by Nazis Anderds, they haven't really got into Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's have a little bit of archaeology with our our

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Speaker 1: murder appetizers, just like a like a slow ramp up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Like I'm not gonna make an edge in

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Speaker 1: comment here. Um. So, while the ideological underpinnings of Nazism

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Speaker 1: did not get really any purchase in the Indian subcontinent

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Speaker 1: during the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties, many Indians on

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Speaker 1: Nazi Germany as a potential ally in their battle against

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Speaker 1: British imperialism. So one of the tough things to understand.

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Speaker 1: And this is also true a different kind of extent

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Speaker 1: with like Ukraine is UM, there was a number of

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Speaker 1: folks in India who supported the Nazis during the period

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Speaker 1: with the Nazis were in charge not because they cared

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Speaker 1: about Nazism, but because they hated the British Empire, which

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Speaker 1: is like, yeah, okay, I mean everybody hates the British Empire. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And if you're like a Hindu nationalist or an Indian

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Speaker 1: nationalist and like a reasonable person like nineteen thirty, you know,

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Speaker 1: you can look at the Nazis be like, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure they've done bad stuff, but like, let's look at

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Speaker 1: what the British Empire has been doing, right, Like, I

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Speaker 1: think that's a long history, have been terrible, a lot

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Speaker 1: more reason to be concerned. Um. So that's part of

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Speaker 1: the support here, and that aspect of it, the part

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Speaker 1: where it's like kind of understandable. Support of the Nazis.

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Speaker 1: UM reached its height with the Indish Legion or the

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Speaker 1: Indian Volunteer Legion of the wathan SS. This was an

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Speaker 1: all Indian military force aimed formed at the guidance of

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Speaker 1: Indian nationalist leaders Subhas Chandra Bos. The forces were initially

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Speaker 1: formed out of Indian POWs captured fighting against the forces

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Speaker 1: of the British Empire. So like they would beat a

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Speaker 1: British army and they would capture a bunch of Indian

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Speaker 1: soldiers that the British had taken in and then they

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Speaker 1: would be like, you guys want to like invade India

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Speaker 1: and free it from British domination. And these guys were like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course that sounds good. You guys want to build

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Speaker 1: us no, yah, yeah, it was a little bit like that. Um.

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Speaker 1: So the idea was that like these Indian soldiers would

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Speaker 1: act as pathfinders and like helped lead the German army

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Speaker 1: into India when it was time to invade the subcontinent

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Speaker 1: uh and Germany wound up collecting well over ten thousand

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Speaker 1: Indian soldiers that way, So they were like ten thousand Indian,

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Speaker 1: Hindu and Muslim Indian soldiers in the s s. Most

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Speaker 1: people don't know this story. It's so wild, it's really weird.

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Speaker 1: They were eventually stationed in France just in time for

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Speaker 1: the Normandy landings, and they never wound up taking part

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Speaker 1: in much meaningful combat, but a lot of them did

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Speaker 1: get killed by the French resistance. Like it's this really

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Speaker 1: weird story. There are not confused. You'd be when like

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Speaker 1: an S S officer came to take you away and

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Speaker 1: he was Indian, and you'd be like, well, they didn't

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Speaker 1: do that really, like they weren't doing normal SS stuff

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Speaker 1: like they even had in there you have to take

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Speaker 1: people away. No, they're not really person I don't think

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Speaker 1: they knew what it was. I think they were like,

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Speaker 1: you guys hate the English and we hate us some

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Speaker 1: English again, Like that's a horrible mistake. Yeah, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: an it's a real comedy of errors. You could get

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Speaker 1: a yeah, um, and it's it's weird because like there's

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Speaker 1: like photos of Irwin Rommel like reviewing parades of these

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Speaker 1: guys and you can see like fucking Rommel um like

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Speaker 1: like pinning medals on the chest of guys with turbans,

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Speaker 1: and like it's just this, it's it's a very strange

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Speaker 1: chapter of history. Um. But they did have like a

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Speaker 1: clause in their contract that said they would not be

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Speaker 1: used for offensive operations anywhere but India, So like they

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Speaker 1: did kind of have written into their contract we're not

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Speaker 1: like fully on board with the Nazi thing, so I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't call I don't know, like it's weird. It's cool

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Speaker 1: to other have other people have who have joined like

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Speaker 1: armed things, gotten a chance to be like, you know

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Speaker 1: what this but not this, I don't like all the

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Speaker 1: way up to the killing, but not the killing. You

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Speaker 1: don't get to do that, right, Yeah, this is the

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Speaker 1: only time I've heard about something like this happening. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it seems unusual. It's a weird case from the war.

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Speaker 1: And you can imagine if that's what soldiering really was.

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Speaker 1: You sign up, but you get to say no things.

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Speaker 1: That's actually that's actually how the German army were today. There,

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Speaker 1: as far as I know, the only one where if

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Speaker 1: you are a German soldier you have a right written

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Speaker 1: into like the law of the nation that says that

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Speaker 1: if you have a moral issue with a deployment or something,

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Speaker 1: you get to say no. I wonder why that's there, yea,

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Speaker 1: I wonder why they have that rule. Um. So, after

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Speaker 1: the war, India gained her independence on the back of

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Speaker 1: a fundamentally peaceful movement. Mahatma Gandhi, one of the chief

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Speaker 1: architects of independence, was assassinated though by a member of

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Speaker 1: the r s S, a Hindu nationalist political party with

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Speaker 1: ties to Savitri Devi, the birth mother of esoteric Hitlerism,

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Speaker 1: who we talked about a few weeks ago. India and

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Speaker 1: Pakistan split apart to in large part to fears by

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Speaker 1: Indian Muslims that they would be dominated by Hindus in

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Speaker 1: any democratic system. This mass migration resulted in what some

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Speaker 1: have termed a mutual genocide, killing well over a million people,

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Speaker 1: possibly like as much as three million people. It was

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Speaker 1: a horrific, horrific like the split of Indian Pakistan, which

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Speaker 1: is unbelievably violent, and it's one of those things where

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Speaker 1: like you'd be really hard pressed to like lockdown like

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Speaker 1: a side that was like mutual. I've never heard again

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Speaker 1: the term mutual was just in the mutual genocide is

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Speaker 1: an insane name and also the name of my death

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Speaker 1: metal band. Yeah, it is a good name for a

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Speaker 1: metal band. Yeah, And it's this is all a very

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Speaker 1: complicated history, but there so you can see there's like

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Speaker 1: this huge tension between so India is simultaneously has more

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Speaker 1: Muslims than any other country on Earth, but is also

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Speaker 1: the vast majority of people in it or Hindu um.

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Speaker 1: And this has been a problem for a while in

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Speaker 1: terms of like um violent uh differences between the two groups,

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Speaker 1: in part because like at different points one group or

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Speaker 1: another has like ruled the nation and the other people,

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Speaker 1: particularly for a long time the like there was like

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Speaker 1: a Muslim conquest of India and the Mogal's ruled and

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Speaker 1: it was like, so this is like there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of history here that we're not going to get to

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Speaker 1: cover in enough depth. But the fact that like the

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Speaker 1: partitioning of Indian Pakistan goes as violently as it does

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Speaker 1: um uh says something about the state of affairs at

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Speaker 1: the time, and it's it's worth noting that like a

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Speaker 1: lot of that also goes on the British because there

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Speaker 1: were ways to have handled this that we're smarter and

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Speaker 1: and more understanding and would have resulted in less death.

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Speaker 1: But England was just like fuck it, We'll just here.

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Speaker 1: We drew a map like this seems good to us.

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Speaker 1: You guys, figure out how to implement it, um, But

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Speaker 1: we already drew the map. We can't change it just

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Speaker 1: because people are dying. The map is already drawn. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's probably worth noting that it's unlikely any of

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Speaker 1: this would be happening if the British hadn't ruled India

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Speaker 1: for a couple of hundred years. But Anderson gets angry

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Speaker 1: when I talked about the British Empire's She's dressed in

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Speaker 1: a really smart like British tweed right now. She likes

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Speaker 1: Royals and she does not funk around when she's dressed

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Speaker 1: to the nines. Is Royals, the show about the British

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Speaker 1: Royal family. Can I get the word tree? Is that

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Speaker 1: the one everyone's watching anyway? So um. In the decades

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Speaker 1: since the partitioning of India, the nation of India lurched

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Speaker 1: forward to take its place as the planet's largest democracy.

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Speaker 1: Elections and crises came and went, and India took its

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Speaker 1: place again as an independent power on the world stage.

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Speaker 1: Americans grew increasingly obsessed with the subcontinent as a source

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Speaker 1: of ancient wisdom and as a great vacation destination, and

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Speaker 1: at the same time Indians grew well, can I tell

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Speaker 1: you something, nothing has changed? Look at any white girls Instagram.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. One of the neat things about going

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Speaker 1: to India, particularly to New Delhi, is how many uh,

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Speaker 1: like young American like nineteen and twenty year olds you

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Speaker 1: meet there having like massive existential crises because New Delhi

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Speaker 1: is a hard fucking city to land in, like it is,

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Speaker 1: it is a shock. There's so many more people than

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Speaker 1: you'd expect, it moves so fast, it is so polluted,

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Speaker 1: um and so like like like people just have massive

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Speaker 1: panic attacks and there's like this whole industry based on

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Speaker 1: Like you see some rich, panicking kid who like didn't

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Speaker 1: realize what it was really going to be like to

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Speaker 1: be in a city like that, and you like come

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Speaker 1: up to him and be like, you want to get

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Speaker 1: out of Delhi, right, you want to visit like one

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Speaker 1: of these vacations spots And he's like yeah, and they're

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Speaker 1: like all of the trains are shut down, there's no

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Speaker 1: busses leaving the town. But I got a bus that

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Speaker 1: you can sharter And then like they've paid three thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars to rent a bus for a week. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: what a sweet fucking hustle. It's it's pretty fun to watch.

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Speaker 1: I'm learning so much. Yeah. So at the same time

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Speaker 1: as all of this happened, uh, Indian or a number

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Speaker 1: of people in India grew increasingly obsessed with the theories

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Speaker 1: and iconography of Adolf Hitler and his Nazi movement, and

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Speaker 1: the reason behind this was complex and confusing. It ranges

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Speaker 1: widely from more or less harmless stuff, like the term

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Speaker 1: Hitler has become a common Bollywood insult for characters who

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Speaker 1: act badly, like you know, you're yeah, like like like

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Speaker 1: just sort of being a total Hitler right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's so awesome. We should do this, we should do

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Speaker 1: that one more. Um But it it kind of hints

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Speaker 1: at something, which is that like Hitler and the legacy

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Speaker 1: of the Nazis isn't really seen kind of the same

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Speaker 1: way over there as it is here because it's way

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Speaker 1: more distant, right, Like all of that those politics are

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Speaker 1: more distant to people there. So it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: you get some weird examples of um, like, every couple

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Speaker 1: of years, there'll be a story of just like some

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Speaker 1: shop opening up in Delhi or some other city in

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Speaker 1: India that's like at a huge swastika on the front

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Speaker 1: or like a picture of Hitler, and it's like usually

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Speaker 1: when you read articles interviewing the shop owner, he's like, well,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really know anything about him. I just thought

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Speaker 1: like the imagery was cool. It's like it's very strange.

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Speaker 1: Um so uh crossword and Indian bookseller sold twenty five

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Speaker 1: copies of mind comp in three years. Jaco, another Indian

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Speaker 1: book merchant, sold a hundred thousand copies in seven years.

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Speaker 1: Hitler's Manifesto was translated into Gujarati Hindi Uh malayal Malay

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Speaker 1: Alan Malay all Um jesus, I'm so sorry to all

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Speaker 1: of the people of Southeast um Asia that I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: be butchering words from um Bengali and to mill And

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Speaker 1: it's sold solidly across the subcontinents. So you have to

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Speaker 1: way hear about da Vinci code man we had in

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Speaker 1: the nights templar. We don't want that going over there. Um. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you have this weird thing where like there's this

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Speaker 1: mix of the history of nazism't being less immediate in

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Speaker 1: India and so like people you know, like adopt the

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Speaker 1: term Hitler as a general insult. And but also this

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Speaker 1: weird phenomenon of like Hitler's actual words selling very well

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Speaker 1: in chunks of India. And what makes this unsettling is

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Speaker 1: that the book is not being sold there as a

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Speaker 1: historic text instead. Mine comp has achieved popularity in India

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Speaker 1: is a sort of self help book, a guide to

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Speaker 1: success for Hindu businessman. It's not great. What the fuck? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: A guide to success. Yeah, he's like they're Tim Ferris,

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Speaker 1: you know, not they're Tim Fair, but like a subculture

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Speaker 1: within like the the Hindu business community. He's like a

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Speaker 1: Tim Ferris tie figure, like a great product productivity. Uh, Guru,

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Speaker 1: like set a timer for thirty minutes and then when

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Speaker 1: it goes off, you kill all the Jews. I found

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Speaker 1: a CBS news article that interviewed to Ruin Sinkhole, a

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Speaker 1: management student at New Delhi's Institute of Technology, was like,

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Speaker 1: without the final solution, I would have never passed my

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Speaker 1: marketing laws. We need a final solution to get in

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Speaker 1: these products off the shelves. I'll tell you what. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He read Mind so this guy to run red mind

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Speaker 1: comp as an undergraduate, and he found it inspiring and

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Speaker 1: he told CBS quote, it serves as a reminder that

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Speaker 1: nothing is unachievable. He said, it doesn't matter how many

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Speaker 1: millions of people you dream of killing from, how many

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Speaker 1: different kinds of groups you got this. You want to

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Speaker 1: kill three, you want to kill six? You want to

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Speaker 1: kill eleven? You got this after that point. This does

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Speaker 1: them back to my frequent refrain on this show that like,

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Speaker 1: people should not, as often as they are, be encouraged

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Speaker 1: to follow their dreams. Some people's dreams are garbage. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: people's dreams not good. So yeah, he said, it serves

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Speaker 1: as a reminder that nothing is unachievable, and he added

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Speaker 1: that He added that he was able to separate that

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Speaker 1: message of empowerment from the book's pervasive anti Semitic ideology.

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Speaker 1: So you gotta cut out all the jew hatred. But

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Speaker 1: there's some good stuff. The old I read Playboy for

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Speaker 1: the articles defends I read Hitler for the management advice exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what are you talking about, mind com Yeah, I mean, sure,

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Speaker 1: there's some juice stuff in there, but mostly what I

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Speaker 1: thought about was efficiency. Mostly it taught me how to

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Speaker 1: really set up an organization. Yeah, it taught me management skills,

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Speaker 1: how to talk to people before you killed them, obviously,

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Speaker 1: but you know it was very helpful, and you know,

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Speaker 1: in luring people to their deaths, it really helped. It's

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Speaker 1: wild because, like, if you actually look into how the

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Speaker 1: Third Reich was managed, it was a complete ship show

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Speaker 1: and Hitler was terrible at it and the only reason

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Speaker 1: they had as much military success as they did is

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Speaker 1: decades of primarily Prussian military ingenuity. That like, but it

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Speaker 1: like he wasn't good as a manager. Is this is

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Speaker 1: the core of the point. But I guess people miss that.

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Speaker 1: Um So. In two thousand ten, Bollywood director Nolan Sing

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Speaker 1: announced his plan to produce a movie titled Dear Friend Hitler,

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00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 1: um which was shall we say, a different take at all?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I don't need to register my

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Speaker 1: script with a w G anymore. That's clearly someone's taken

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Speaker 1: my idea. That's a bummer Hitler colin not so bad,

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Speaker 1: I do. That was also another version of I mean

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Speaker 1: that was a musical, But I have an idea for

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Speaker 1: a script that I yeah, you want to just throw

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Speaker 1: it out here, nobody steal this. It's called Reverse Hitler,

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00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 1: the Hitler with a Heart of Gold, and it's about

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Speaker 1: a clone of Hitler, that's his opposite, whose goal is

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Speaker 1: to and it can either be I actually think this

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00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,919
Speaker 1: might work best as like a Netflix mini series. His

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00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 1: goal is to get six million Jewish couples pregnant. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, how about anti Hitler Anti Hitler. We can

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Speaker 1: workshop the title. Yeah, and you know what else, we

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00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 1: can stay on board with this. Let's make this happen.

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't want this to slip away. Okay, no,

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00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: we can make some bank off of this, dude, anti

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Speaker 1: Hitler Hunters is popular and that ship is trash. It is.

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Speaker 1: It's bad. It's really terrible, so bad. It's like, what horrible.

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Speaker 1: It's like written by people who I think had heard

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00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 1: of Jewish people but aren't. And I know the guy

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Speaker 1: involved as Jewish and the guys starring in it as Jewish,

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00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: but I don't understand it. Why are they calling the

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Speaker 1: grandparents soft? That's a that's a Hebrew word. That would

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00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 1: never be the thing. It would be Yiddish. It just

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00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,719
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. It's like, just have one fucking

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00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 1: real jew look it over, just one, just one. It's

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Speaker 1: so bad, horrible, What about the fucking accent on the grandma? Sorry, no, no,

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00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 1: it's good, it's good. This is a terrible show. But

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00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,120
Speaker 1: you know what's not terrible and also haunts Nazis? These

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00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 1: exactly exactly, every single one of them nailed it. We're back.

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Speaker 1: We're back, and we're talking about Nazism in India. So

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Speaker 1: into this inten this Bollywood director Nolan Saying announces that

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Speaker 1: he's going to make Dear Friend Hitler, and CBS News

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Speaker 1: reports that he was quote genuinely shocked that this created controversy,

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00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 1: genuinely shocked, the media express disdain, Jewish groups were horrified,

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00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: and his lead actor through it, though a bit baffled

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00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 1: by the reaction, quit. While such a response would seem

403
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,439
Speaker 1: if anything understated in much of the world, Singh had

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00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: reason to believe his film would not generate even a

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00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: ripple of scandal in India. Here, Hitler is not viewed

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Speaker 1: as the personification of evil, but with an attitude of

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00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,200
Speaker 1: morally ambiguous fascination. He has seen as a managed meant

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00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 1: guru akin to Makia Eli or Sun Sue by business students,

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Speaker 1: and an object of wonder by people craving order amidst

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Speaker 1: the chaos of India. Imagine if fifty Cent did his

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00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 1: own version of mind Coom instead of Yeah, that would

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Speaker 1: be a bummer. I feel like Kanye maybe new Kanye,

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00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: new Kanye. So uh that last line there about people

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Speaker 1: craving order amid the chaos of India that brings us

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00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: to like the real problem because while many of the

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Speaker 1: Indians who created weird like Hitler themed restaurants, some clothing

417
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: stores did so because they thought the imagery was neat

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00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 1: and they just didn't know that much about the Second

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Speaker 1: World War. There were a number of people who knew

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00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 1: precisely what Hitler stood for, and some of them took

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Speaker 1: deliberately took advantage of their countryman's ignorance of the Third

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Speaker 1: Reich to whitewash Hitler and mainstream fascist politics. I'm sorry,

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00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: whitewash Hitler. Yeah, it's pretty funny, Is that even possible?

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00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: Kind of I found a really interesting article in Herrott's

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00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 1: left leaning Israeli news website and it documents this was

426
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 1: called a Hitler's Hindu's Nazi Living Nationalists on the Rise,

427
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: and it starts with the author's recollection of their time

428
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: in a cycling expedition through India in July two thousand eight.

429
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: They found themselves in Nagpur, a city in the exact

430
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 1: middle of India and one of the hotbeds of the

431
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: Hindu nationalist movement. And Nagpur they found a pool parlor

432
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: named Hitler's Den, complete with this of a definitely st

433
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 1: Nazi swastika on the sign. Um. I mean obviously, what

434
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 1: are you going to take pictures in front of? Yeah,

435
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: I mean Hitler's dead. Of course we all need a

436
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: Hitler's Den shot. So Hitler's Den was not just the

437
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: result of good natured ignorance about European history. For you see,

438
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 1: Naper happens to hold the headquarters of an organization called

439
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 1: the rush Tria swam Boy swam Sevak Song or r

440
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: s S. It's a far right Hindu fascist political organization

441
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: originally founded back in the nineteen twenties. And this is

442
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: the group that like the guy who shot Gandhi was

443
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: a former member of the r s S. So the

444
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 1: cool dudes, one of the co founders or ideological founders

445
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: or whatever of the r s S is of fellow

446
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: named Vid Savarkar. And Vid Savarkar had a brother who

447
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 1: was a big fan of the Nazi priestess Savitri Devi,

448
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: and like wrote a forward in one of her books.

449
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: And VD Savarkar himself was a big fan of our

450
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: old buddy Adolph. In nineteen forty, he addressed a group

451
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: of Hindu nationalists by saying, there is no reason to

452
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: suppose that Hitler must be a human monster because he

453
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: passes off as a Nazi. Nazi has improved undeniably. The

454
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: Savior of India passes off as he passes off as

455
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 1: a Hindu extremist. VD Savarkar's primary motivation was a desire

456
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: to see India turned into a Hindu stand that the

457
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: term here at the time, a nation completely dominated by

458
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: Hinduism and Muslims in particular, completely purged and exercise from society.

459
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 1: At that same gathering, he stated, if we Hindus an

460
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: India grow stronger in time, these Muslim friends of the

461
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 1: league type will have to play the part of the

462
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: German Jews instead. Yeah. Yeah, not a nice guy and

463
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: Vid Savarkar coined the term Hindutva for his new ideology.

464
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: He argued that ancient Arians who had settled in India

465
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: formed a Hindu nation. Hindu nous stemmed from geographical unity,

466
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: racial unity and a common culture which pitted the Hindus

467
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: of India against all others. And there was like a

468
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 1: cast angle to it too. He was like a Brahmin

469
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: and I think in his view of it, and it's

470
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: become sort of more egalitarian. Fascism in the modern era

471
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: but like initially there was like a very strict like

472
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: racial hierarchy within Hinduism too. I think that's less of

473
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: a factor now, but I'm not an expert on it um.

474
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: Another early RSS leader, Ms. Goldwal Car, was nicknamed the

475
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: Guru of Hate. He was another big Hitler fan. In

476
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: his nineteen thirty nine book We Are Nationhood, defined a

477
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: seminal RSS text, he wrote this, something amazing about being

478
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: the Guru of Hate. It's like it's like any pepitone's

479
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: the bit or Buddha, you know. I mean, not suggesting

480
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: he's a Nazi. He's a very funny non Nazi comedian. Yeah,

481
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: not a Nazi, just repeating. Probably not a Nazi. Probably,

482
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: so he said this in his book German Race pride

483
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 1: has now become topic of the day to keep up

484
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: the purity of the race and its culture. Germany shocked

485
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: the world by her purging the country of the Semitic races,

486
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: the Jews. A good lesson for us in hindu stand

487
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: to learn and profit by. So it's so cool that

488
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: when my grandpa's, i mean my grandma's family was all

489
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: shot to death, it was like a really good lesson

490
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: for it was a really good lesson it. It goes

491
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 1: to show kind of this thing that I don't think

492
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: it's talked about enough, which is like fascism functions very

493
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: similarly to a cancer and World War two can be

494
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: seen as a really aggressive dose of chemo. But we

495
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: didn't fucking get at all. And that's why this is

496
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: all happening all over the world right now. Is these

497
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: little bitty like pockets of it. It's not possible to

498
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: get at all. I maybe it is. Maybe I think

499
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: there's an argument to be made about the nature of

500
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: our society and that and this will come into play

501
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: later here, and that if you live in a system

502
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: that is is completely dominated by by capitalism and moneyed

503
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: interests as ours is, because that's always a factor in

504
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: the rise of all these movements, is the business leaders

505
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: in those countries, even the ones that don't really like

506
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 1: the Fascist party, prefer it to socialism. And that's a

507
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: huge factor everywhere fascism seriously takes hold. It's just like

508
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: these rich people being like, well, I guess I prefer

509
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: these folks to giving up a big chunk on my fortune.

510
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: And so there's an argument to be made that if

511
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: you have a state with a strong social safety net

512
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 1: already in place, and with strict limits on how much

513
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: power the wealthy can exercise, it's seriously cramps the ability

514
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: of these movements to get off the ground. Um, nobody's

515
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 1: ever eradicated fascism from the human race, So we can't

516
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: know what the solution is. But if i'm if I'm theorizing,

517
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: that would be a suggestion I would make, I'll take

518
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: it under advisement. Yeah, the next time you're trying to

519
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: eliminate fascism, maybe give that a shot. Not all the

520
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: way in, but I'll think about it. Well, it's all

521
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: on you specifically, so I hope you do. But yeah,

522
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: as you know, people have been waiting for me to

523
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: eliminate FACI. Yeah, we're all waiting. So. Another one of

524
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 1: the founders of the RSS was a guy named hedge War,

525
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: and he deliberately patterned the RSS after the fascist parties

526
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: he'd watched rise to power in Germany and Italy. Hedgewar

527
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: addressed his stormtroopers and khaki uniforms patterned off Mussolini's fascists.

528
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 1: He marched them through the street and an Indian equivalent

529
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: to the goose step, and he gave them like a

530
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: weird little salute that's like kind of like a modified

531
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: Hitler salute that they still do to this day, modified

532
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: in which way. Um, if you look up r SS,

533
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 1: well it's like a little bit less of the hand motion. Um,

534
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: just like less noticeable. What do you want me to

535
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: look at r SS salute? Yeah? Yeah, it's like it's

536
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: like your arm kind of like over your with like

537
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: your fist over your heart. You can sort of see

538
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: the inspiration, but it kind of looks if you do this,

539
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: it's like almost Hitler. Yeah, it's a little bit of

540
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: a of a subdued Do you have to keep your

541
00:28:58,320 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: arms straight though? Yeah? I think you have to keep

542
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: it draka. You know that has a very Hitler look.

543
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: It's got a hitlery look to it. Yeah. And Hedgewar's

544
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: fundamental belief was that centuries of domination by the British

545
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: Empire had emasculated the Indian man and they needed a violent,

546
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: fascist paramilitary force to restore their manly pride. So I

547
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: noticed you picked up the knife just sort of by reflex.

548
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: That's a good reflex to fascism. Um. So the RSS

549
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: was from the beginning profoundly anti Muslim. They preached that

550
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: India's Muslims were descended from Hindus who had been violently converted,

551
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: and thus we're not authentically Indian. Non violence and plurality

552
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: were all equally hateful to the men of the RSS,

553
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: including one Naam van Ayak Gudzi, the assassin of Mahatma Gandhi.

554
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: After Gandhi's murder, the party was banned, but not for long.

555
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: The centrist powers of Indian never quite succeeded in wiping

556
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: it out, and as a result, it hung out in

557
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: the margins of political society for years, waiting for the

558
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: right time to re emerge. Bit by bit, it grew

559
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: to hold influence over ever greater swaths of Indian society.

560
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: In two thousand and four, the Gujarat State Bore issued

561
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: textbooks that described Adolf Hitler as a hero, with social

562
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: study textbook chapter titles like Hitler, the Supremo and Internal

563
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: Achievements of Nazism One Secure Supremo. What a bad breakfast sandwich? Yeah,

564
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: that does sound like a terrible It's like a lot

565
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: of hair and it just mustaches. Yeah, it's mostly like

566
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: really greasy pork and like boiled eggs. Yeah, greasy pork

567
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: and boiled eggs. Is the supremo Hitler. Yeah, yeah, the

568
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: mustaches and let us. Yeah, it's like, I mean, I'd

569
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: prefer it to subway, but not by much. And it's

570
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: less fascist than subway, but not by much. Subway. If

571
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: you sponsor our show, I'll take all this back and

572
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: we will eat fresh seriously. So yeah. From that social

573
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: study textbook, there's a section called Ideology of Nazism, and

574
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: in that chapter it notes quote Hitler lit dignity and

575
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: prestige to the German government. He adopted the polity of

576
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: opposition towards the Jewish people and advocated the supremacy of

577
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: the German race. So you can kind to see something

578
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: happening here. Yeah. Sympathizers in the state of Tamil Nadu

579
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: succeeded in sliding pro Nazi messages into a tenth grade

580
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: social studies textbook in two thousand eleven, including chapters praising

581
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: Hitler's inspiring leadership achievements and how the Nazis only ordered

582
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: the persecution of the Jews in order to maintain a

583
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: German race with Nordic elements. Nordic elements, so that's good.

584
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: In two twelve tenth grade students at a private school

585
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: in Mumbai were asked to complete a sentence starting with

586
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,239
Speaker 1: the words I admire. Nine of the students in that

587
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: class picked Hitler. A two two pole conducted by the

588
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: Times of India found that seventeen percent of respondents listed

589
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: Hitler as the kind of leader India ought to have. So,

590
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: given all that, it would be fair to say that

591
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: India's issues with Nazism go just a scouche behind simple

592
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: ignorance of history. It would, in fact be fair to

593
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: say that a number of very motivated people have spent

594
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: decades attempting to mainstream Nazi idology and pushed the ideals

595
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: of fascism on the people of the world's largest democracy.

596
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: And it would furthermore be fair to say that those

597
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: same very motivated people have seen terrifying success. No individual

598
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: has seen more success with this than Narindra Moody, the

599
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: current Prime Minister of India and the man who was

600
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: governor of Gurot in two thousand four when the province

601
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: added that pro Hitler curriculum to X textbooks. So we're

602
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: gonna talk about Moody now. Now now we're into the past. NiFe,

603
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: good that's the right response. Oh look, he let me

604
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: call it my knife. What's up now, my knife? I'm

605
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: kindly stroking my knife. Is the coolest ever all day. Yeah,

606
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: let's let's get a couple of knives. More knives in here.

607
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: Sophie Narendra Modi was born in Vanegar, a small town

608
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: in North guj rots Mansana district, on September seventeenth, nineteen fifty.

609
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: He was the sixth of the third of six children,

610
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,719
Speaker 1: and he was not born into wealcare privilege. His family

611
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: was of the Ganchi cast, which put them about as

612
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: low on the cultural totem pole as one could go

613
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: without literally being an outcast. Traditionally, members of this cast

614
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: pressed vegetable oil for a living, but Narindra's father supported

615
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: his family by running a small chi shop at a

616
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: local railway station. The Moody family were incredibly poor and

617
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: lived together in a forty by twelve foot single story house.

618
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: When Narindraw was old enough, he worked at his father's

619
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: tea shop to help support the family. He would get

620
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: up early to work alongside his dad and then cross

621
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: the train tracks to head to school later in the morning.

622
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: The modern political propaganda around Moody often emphasizes the fact

623
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: that he is unmarried and chased, essentially portraying him as

624
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: something of a monk dedicated purely to his work on

625
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: behalf of India, a man who sacrificed even love for

626
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: the love of his country. As we know, being chased

627
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: doesn't always work up. Actually, it can be a real problem.

628
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: Maybe some people. Yeah, people should just suck maybe um.

629
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: But this whole like presenting himself as like a chased monk,

630
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: it does kind of keeps with a broad trended propaganda

631
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: around mode. For example, this is how his website Narindra

632
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: Moody dot Ian describes his childhood. As a child, Narindra

633
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: Moody balance to studies, non academic life and his contribution

634
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: to the family tea stall. His schoolmates were calling a

635
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: Reindra as a diligent student with a penchant for debating

636
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: and reading. He would spend hours and hours reading in

637
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 1: the school library. Among the sports, he was very fond

638
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: of swimming. Nourindramodi had a wide range of friends from

639
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: all the communities. As a child, he often celebrated both

640
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: Hindu and Muslim festivals. Considering the large number of Muslim

641
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: friends he had in the neighborhood. Yet his thoughts and

642
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: his dreams went way beyond a conventional life that began

643
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 1: in the classroom and ended in the environs of an office.

644
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: He wanted to go out there and make a difference

645
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: to society, to wipe tears and suffering among people. At

646
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: a young age, he developed an inclination towards renunciation and asceticism.

647
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: He gave up eating salt, chili's oil, and jaggery. So

648
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: that's kind of how he's portrayed in his official propaganda, right,

649
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 1: So they also he hit tons of Hindu or Muslim friends.

650
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: He's not racist, and so dude, if your God doesn't

651
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: want you to eat chili's, abandon your God. It's not

652
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: that because like obviously chilies are like a traditional Hindu food.

653
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: It's this idea that like, um, that they are better

654
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: than people because you don't need chilies, that because you

655
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: sacrifice comforts of the flesh, you're a holy man. Like

656
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: that's kind of what make and that's not just Hinduism.

657
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: That's like a huge and Christianity and Islam. Like this

658
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: idea of what I'm saying, if you're not fucking at

659
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 1: least have chilies. If you're not fucking at least have chilies.

660
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: You don't have hot sauce. What do you even have

661
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: that's a T shirt? You're not fucking you have some chilies. Yeah,

662
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: you gotta anyway chilies or fucking ideally both to avoid fascism. Yeah.

663
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: Uh so. It was, however, revealed during his first campaign

664
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: for Prime minister that Narendra was legally married and had

665
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: been virtually his entire life. Uh, he was like married

666
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: as a child. The couple actually moved in together at

667
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: the age of seventeen, but the only cohabited for three months.

668
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: The Narendra abandoned his wife to wander around him Alayan

669
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: mountains on a pilgrimage and he never returned to death

670
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: draws part just kidding, No, until I wander away forever.

671
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: It's it's a little bit weirder than that because I

672
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: can't put this on Narendra because he didn't get to

673
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: choose to marry his wife. It was like, um his

674
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: family because his family was very traditional UM and they

675
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: thought that like they should um do kind of the

676
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 1: traditional thing for people in their culture, which was like

677
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: you marry off the kid pretty young. Like it was

678
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: an arranged marriage sort of thing, and so like this

679
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: partner was picked for him when he was three or

680
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: four and they were just like engaged to be married.

681
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: And then at seventeen, they moved in together and he

682
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: kind of immediately knew, like, I don't want this life,

683
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: and so he left. And I can't really put I mean,

684
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: I can put the whole becoming like a fascist on him,

685
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: but deciding that you don't want to marry this person

686
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 1: your parents hooked you up with when you were like four,

687
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: that that can't be on him. How did his wife

688
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: feel though? I don't know. Yeah, but that's I mean,

689
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: I can't blame him for like not wanting to be

690
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: married when he didn't choose to get married. I'm sure

691
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 1: she didn't want it either, but she was just trying

692
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: to play along for a second. And I don't know

693
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: what happened to her. I don't know that anybody does. Okay, good,

694
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: we should research that. That would be X time to know. Yeah.

695
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: So anyway, what I'm getting out is that, like, this

696
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: guy's backstory is a little bit complicated, and we don't

697
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: have like a really clear idea of how he spent

698
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: his youth or his childhood. We have a lot of

699
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: propaganda in a few bits of like hard facts that

700
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: are sprinkled in here and there. Um yeah, so it's

701
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: it's weird, um or not weird. It's just it's not

702
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: what we're used to. And it's hard to like, like

703
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 1: a lot of this is hard to kind of square

704
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: with the way things are in the US. Like here

705
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: in the US, like politicians are supposed to be like

706
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: family men and like to the point where like our

707
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: current president literally bragged about his dick size during a

708
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: major political debate. And it's kind of hard as an

709
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: American to get your head around somebody bragging that, like

710
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: I don't fuck, I have no partner, and like I

711
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: don't bone at all. But no, I get that it

712
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: makes you folier than other people exactly. Yeah, and in

713
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: it kind of positions to come, yeah, I don't, I

714
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 1: don't for me coming as politics and that's it's just different. Um. So.

715
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: Nourendra's childhood coincided with an interesting time in Indian politics.

716
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: The Congress Party, the party of Gandhi, basically held power

717
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: for the first fifty years of his life. They stood

718
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 1: for a sec for secular democratic values and were directly

719
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: opposed to the R s S. As you might expect

720
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: from a violent fascist movement, The R excess was initially

721
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: RSS was initially a high cast endeavor organized by wealthy men,

722
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: but in order to expand their membership base after the

723
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: partition of India, the RSS quickly found itself recruiting new

724
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: members of lower casts, and one of those recruits was

725
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: a young boy named Narendra Modi. It's hard to say

726
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: when he first got involved with the R S S.

727
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: I've heard some sources that claim he was eight or

728
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: nine years old when they when they went with him.

729
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: That's real fucking early. Yeah. His official biographies don't agree

730
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 1: with this, and they state that he was like after

731
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: he went on pilgrimage to the Himalayas, that he came

732
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: back and he joined the RSS. We don't know, um.

733
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 1: The official biographies talk about I don't know, you know,

734
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: stuff like we when he was nine years old, there

735
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: was flooding in a river and he built a food

736
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: stall to donate the proceeds to relief work um. And

737
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: that during a war with Pakistan and his youth he

738
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: engaged in acts of charity, serving tea to soldiers passing

739
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 1: through the railway station. That's what they focused on the

740
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: official biography, that he's like this very patriotic kid who

741
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: dedicates a lot of his time and effort to helping

742
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: his fellow hindus um. And it's entirely possible that if

743
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: he did any of this stuff, it was actually at

744
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: the behest of the RSS, and he was doing it

745
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: as like a child activist. I really don't know. It's

746
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: kind of impossible to tell whatever the precise truth. We

747
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: know that at age seventeen, Narindra abandoned his wife and

748
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 1: left on a pilgrimage of spiritual enlightenment. When he came back,

749
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: he set up a tea card at a bus stand

750
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: to make ends meet and began working for the RSS

751
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: in a in an official capacity as a procharek, which

752
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: was essentially a street propagandist. So the holler at his

753
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: wife when he got back, I don't think so. I

754
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: don't think they saw each other again. He has come

755
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: by and say like, hey, it's gonna be weird. I'm

756
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: selling tea in town. I'm back. You know, I'm sorry,

757
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 1: I'm kind of a dick, but probably you don't want

758
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: to be with me anyway. So this is for the best.

759
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: But if you see me in town slinging t to

760
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: the Nazis, don't don't feel weird about it. Don't make

761
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: it weird. I have to say, I've never fucked, so

762
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: this is critical for me. So it may not have

763
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: he he might be completely honest about the whole chasteness thing.

764
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: Like well, it's kind of hard to tell because it's

765
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: hard to get like a real hint of what the

766
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: man is. But he might actually be like a no

767
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: nuts sort of dude, like like really committed to that

768
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: proud boy don't come sort of sort of thing fascist

769
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: hate coming. I know it's so so um. Yeah. He

770
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: starts work as a protarch, which is basically like a

771
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: street propagandist, like he's giving speeches and stuff to try

772
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: to like rile people up and get them involved in

773
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: this nationalist movement and really teaches him how to like

774
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 1: stir up a crowd and work one Um and Paris

775
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: Moody were expected to remain chased, living like monks and

776
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: dedicating their every waking hour to the party. So when

777
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: Moody was not delivering speeches and spreading the RSS gospel

778
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: of intolerance against non Hindu's he cleaned out the living

779
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: quarters of senior RSS officials. In interviews today, Moody claims

780
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: that finding the RSS basically saved his life. Quote, I

781
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: got the inspiration to live for the nation from the RSS.

782
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: I learned to live for others and not for myself.

783
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: I owe it all to the r s S. So

784
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: fascist parties like the RSS de facto idolized the military,

785
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: and leaders in such organizations either have to have a

786
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: military background of their own or like as we saw

787
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: with people like Hitler and Mussolini, or they need to

788
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: come up with a very good excuse as to why

789
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,240
Speaker 1: they did not serve that still reinforces their bona fides

790
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: as like a lover of the military. I was busy,

791
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: not fucking. I was busy to not to the military.

792
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: You got the military. Um. We kind of see this

793
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: with Trump's bones spurs and in his bizarre insistence that

794
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: the time he spent in the military school was essentially

795
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: the same as being in the military. You've got to

796
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: find a way to like kind of connect yourself to

797
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: the military if you're going to be this sort of

798
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: authoritarian strong man. And Moody never served, but his biography

799
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,919
Speaker 1: really tries to thread that needle, and I'm gonna quote

800
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: from it right now. As a child, Narendra Moody had

801
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: one dream to serve in the Indian Army. For many

802
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: youngsters of his time, the army was seen as the

803
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: ultimate means of serving Mother India. As luck would have it,

804
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: his family was dead opposed to the idea. Nourindra Moody

805
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 1: was very keen to study in Sinic School located a

806
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: near by jem Nagar, but when the time came to

807
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: pay the feest, there was no money at home. Surely,

808
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: Narindra was disappointed, But fate had different plans for this

809
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: young boy who was disappointed on not being able to

810
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: wear the uniform of a Jawana soldier. Over the years,

811
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: he embarked on a unique path that took him across

812
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: India in pursuit of the larger mission to serve humanity.

813
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: So he wanted to be a soldier, but like, they

814
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: couldn't make the funding workout and stuff, and thankfully he

815
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: found another way to serve. That's just like being a soldier,

816
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: but doesn't risk him getting shot in a border war

817
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: with Pakistan. So that's cool. So just like though, just

818
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: like that it's the same. It's the same, only he

819
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: doesn't die anonymously in a trench being ordered to charge

820
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: a machine Gunness, that is very same. It is the same,

821
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: exactly the same, but very fortunate for him. So in

822
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,919
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, when Moody was twenty five years old,

823
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: India went through a period of economic collapse in the

824
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,720
Speaker 1: attendant civil and rest that comes with it. The RSS

825
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 1: saw this as an opportunity to recruit and to stir

826
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: up dissent against the ruling Congress Party. Prime Minister in

827
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: Dera Gandhi responded to all this by suspending parliament and

828
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: instituting emergency rule, a widely unpopular and a legal move

829
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: that was rightly condemned by many. During her time as

830
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: de facto dictator, Indira Gandhi had RSS leaders arrested and persecuted,

831
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: and the organization itself was banned. Moody went into hiding

832
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: at this time, dressing as a seek in a turban

833
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: and what appears to be a fake beard. I've got

834
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: a picture of him in disguise, and I'm almost certain

835
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: that that's a costume piece he's wearing. Let me see

836
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: the beard. Look at that it's a little line on

837
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 1: there that makes it look like it's a fake wed

838
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: or he's just like got like a thick version of

839
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: a chin strap. Going. Yeah, I can't really say for

840
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 1: certain if it is a fake beard or not, but

841
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: it's the only question that it's a wild choice either way.

842
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: I think the mustaches, you can see the tape. Yeah,

843
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: it's weird. It's a weird look. Sunglasses help, Yeah, they

844
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: do help. I mean it's not a bad he just

845
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: couldn't grow a beard or he has one now I

846
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: think so, like what the dude, I mean, he was

847
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,479
Speaker 1: younger then some minute, takes a while before it comes time. Yeah,

848
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: I'll accept that. So. Indira Gandhi's period of emergency rule

849
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: eventually ended and the RSS was unbanned, and rather than

850
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: being harmed by their period of persecution, Gandhi's targeting of

851
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: the group legitimized in the eyes of many Indians who

852
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: had not identified with the organization previously. The RSS began

853
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 1: to grow and the loyal and Narindric Moody moved up

854
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 1: the ranks quickly. In nine seven, he joined the Janata

855
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: Party or b j P, and the b j P

856
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: is the electorally political also a member of the b

857
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: j P. What's up, dude. That is sorry, yeah, but

858
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: it's the In this case, the b j P is

859
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: the electorally political wing of the RSS. You don't got

860
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: to tell me about the b j Robert's uncomfortable. It's great,

861
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 1: you can all join blushed the JP. That is so cute.

862
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: Lord in Heaven, you're adorable. You know what else is

863
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: adorable and pro blow job. That's that's exactly right. All

864
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: of these companies will blow you in the capitalistic sense

865
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: by sending you products in exchange for currency. We're back.

866
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,959
Speaker 1: So uh. Moody has just joined the b j P UM,

867
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 1: which is the political wing of the RSS. And he

868
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: started at the bottom of the party, but his skill

869
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 1: as an organizer ensured that he rose rapidly. By the

870
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, he had become a senior figure in the

871
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: b JPS Gugati chapter. At the time, the b j

872
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: P was still definitely fringe. It had only two seats

873
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: in parliament. The party leadership looked out at the political

874
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: situation in India and saw that they needed a cause

875
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 1: to crystallize the divisions between Hindu and Muslim in the country,

876
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: and they found this cause in the city of Iodia.

877
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: That holy city had a mosque called the Babri Mashid

878
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: mas Jid sorry the Babri Musjid, which had been built

879
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 1: by the Muslim Mughal and bur Baber in fifty eight

880
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: for a variety of confusing reasons. A number of local

881
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: Hindus had grown convinced over the years that this mosque

882
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 1: was built over the site of an old Hindu temple,

883
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 1: and some of these people began to claim that ram

884
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 1: and Avatara Vishnu had been born on the spot. And

885
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to quote now from a New Yorker article

886
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 1: laying out what happened next. In September nine, senior b

887
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 1: JP member named L. K. Advani began calling for the

888
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: Babri Musjid to be destroyed and for a Hindu temple

889
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,879
Speaker 1: to take its place. To build support for the idea,

890
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: he undertook a two month pilgrimage called the ram rath

891
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: Yatra across the Indian heartland. Traveling aboard a Nissan jiep

892
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: refitted to look like a chariot, he sometimes gave several

893
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: speeches a day in flaming crowds about what he saw

894
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: as the government's favoritism towards Muslims. Sectarian riots followed in

895
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 1: his wake, leaving hundreds dead. At Vani was arrested before

896
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: he reached Iodia, but other b JP members carried on

897
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,959
Speaker 1: gathering supporters and donations along the way. On December six,

898
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: a crowd led by RSS partisans swarmed the bobbary ms

899
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 1: Jed and using axes and hammers, began tearing the building down.

900
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 1: By nightfall it had been completely raised. So they destroyed

901
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,439
Speaker 1: this mosque and uh Narindra Modi was still pretty low

902
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: on the totem pole at this point, but his skill

903
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: as an organizer earned him a place organizing the rath

904
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: Yatra that like Chariot march across the country. It was

905
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 1: his job to organize the Gujrat section of the Chariot March,

906
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 1: and the ram Yatha sparked a series of horrifically bloody

907
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: Hindew Muslim riots all across the subcontinent. The violence took

908
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: weeks to die down, and it was particularly bad in Mumbai,

909
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: one of India's largest cities. Muslims were forced either by

910
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: mobs or by basic self preservation to move out of neighborhoods.

911
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: Their families had occupied for generations. Many moved into what

912
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 1: we're effectively ghettos. The riots and dislow casion caused by

913
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: the ram Rath Theatra's aftershocks contributed to the growing violent

914
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: polarization of Indian society. One survivor the New Yorker interviewed

915
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: reported feeling as if Mumbai had been transformed by all this.

916
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: That is the first time I ever really thought about

917
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: my identity, our entire neighborhood, our friends were going to

918
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: kill us, and all this was fucking bank for the RSS.

919
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: By nine years after Moodi joined, the b j P

920
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: had grown to become the single largest party in Parliament.

921
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 1: As it ever does, the rioting and racial hatred sparked

922
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: by this fascist organization convinced more people to join it.

923
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: As they grew to consume the Indian political system, a

924
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: few forward thinking academics began to study the party and

925
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,399
Speaker 1: its members. One of these was Ashish Nandi, and I'm

926
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: gonna quote again from The New Yorker here, a trained psychologist,

927
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: he wanted to study the mentality of the rising Hindu nationalists.

928
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: One of those he met was Narendra Modi, who was

929
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 1: then a little known b JP functionary Nandi interviewed Modi

930
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 1: for several hours and came away shaken. His subject, Nandi

931
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: told me, exhibited all the traits of an authoritarian personality, puritanical, rigid,

932
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: a constricted emotional life, fear of his own passions, and

933
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: an enormous ego that protected annawing and security. During an interview,

934
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: Moody elaborated a fantastical theory of how India was the

935
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: target of a global conspiracy in which every Muslim in

936
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: the country was likely complicit. Moody was a fascist in

937
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: every sense. Nandy said, I don't mean this as a

938
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: term of abuse. It's a diagnostic category. Cool and good

939
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: the only diagnostics that I'm sorry, it's just just going

940
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: to come back to the b j P. Sometimes all

941
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 1: you can do is laugh about blow jobs when you're

942
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 1: talking about fascism, because they hate blow jobs. It's a

943
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: diagnostic category, That's what she said. Yeah, that's what That's

944
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: what this psychologist come not just being like you're a fascion.

945
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 1: I'm being like, fascism is a mental disorder when I

946
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 1: am diagnosing you with it. Yeah, yeah, interesting. So in

947
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: September two thousand one, a month in which nothing else

948
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: of historical import occurred. Nurindra Moody was appointed to be

949
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: the Chief Minister of the government of Gujerat, which the

950
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: rs S and b JP had begun to dominate in

951
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 1: a series of elections. Moody's rise to power was not

952
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: due to his own electoral success though um. It was

953
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: due to basically his ability to politic internally, and he

954
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 1: basically undermined another rival of his and the v j P,

955
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 1: a guy named Keshubai Patel. I am so sorry about

956
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: the names here. You know me, yes, yes, yes, uh

957
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: so yeah. I found a quote from a guy named

958
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: Vinod Meta, which is the former editor of an Indian

959
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: news magazine called Outlook, who remembers Mody turning up at

960
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 1: their office in the year two thousand with a bunch

961
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: of documents incriminating this rival of his Patel and a

962
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 1: scandal quote. I immediately felt this man was bad news.

963
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: There was something sinister about him and the way he spoke,

964
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: and I felt deeply uncomfortable in his presence. He complained

965
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: about Patel and talked about corruption. He came back a

966
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: couple of times, but I didn't run the story before

967
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: I knew what had happened. He was back at Gujrat

968
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: as the chief minister in Keshubai's place. So Narendra like

969
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: basically Fox with this other guy he sees his arrival,

970
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: succeeds in kind of maneuvering him out of power, and

971
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: he winds up as the man in charge on gat

972
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: On February two, when a passenger train stops in the

973
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: city of go Drop after departing from Iodia, many of

974
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: the people on board the train were Hindu pilgrims who

975
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: had been visiting the destroyed Bobary Maschi and mosque in

976
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: order to advocate the building of a Hindu temple over

977
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: its remains. Most of them were members of the RSS. Somehow,

978
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: Muslim residents of Gojra realized that this train was filled

979
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: with RSS activists and they began to shout and jeer

980
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: at them, and the Hindu partisans inside began to shout back.

981
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: The train stalled as it began to depart, and this

982
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: provided time for the confrontation to escalate. No one knows

983
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,280
Speaker 1: exactly what happened next, but someone threw something on fire

984
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: into one of the cars, possibly like a Muslim shop

985
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 1: owner like Tasta stove in there. It's really not known

986
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: for certain, but one of the people in the crowd

987
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,760
Speaker 1: outside saw something on fire into the into the train,

988
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: and I I've been on a lot of Indian trains.

989
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: They're they're incredibly crowded, and a lot of people wearing

990
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: like long flowing cotton garments and also carrying like piles

991
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: of like clothes and stuff with them, like what they

992
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: own and whatnot. And it's incredibly flammable in there, and

993
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: this catches, like members of the group inside catch and

994
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: the fire spreads, and it's just this this horrific fire,

995
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: and really like before anyone knows what's happening, fifty eight

996
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,919
Speaker 1: people had either burned to death or suffocated on board

997
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: the train. Yeah, and blame quickly settles on Muslims in

998
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,760
Speaker 1: general for this horrible tragedy. So members of the VHP,

999
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: the religious wing of the RSS, the group that most

1000
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: of the people in the train had been a part of,

1001
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: petition Narendra Modi for the right to parade the burnt

1002
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: corpses of their members through the streets of the Metabot,

1003
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: the largest city in Guat. What. Yeah, They're like, we wanna,

1004
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: we wanna really like make the most of this tragedy.

1005
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: So we want to carry the dead bodies of our

1006
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: members who got burnt to death and marched them through

1007
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: the city to try to like spark a fucking riot,

1008
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 1: Like that's the goal here. Excuse me, I gotta say that,

1009
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,359
Speaker 1: you know. I was like, Oh, I'm with them, I'm

1010
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 1: with them, They're reaving. Wait what Yeah, so I feel

1011
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: like that really went quick. Yeah. Um. And the Home

1012
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: Secretary of Guzerat warns Moody that allowing them to do

1013
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: this will spark another violent riot, telling him things will

1014
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,280
Speaker 1: go out of hand. But out of hand is exactly

1015
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: where Moody wanted things to go, and sure enough, he

1016
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 1: allows them to march the corpses of their dead members

1017
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: through the street, and this provokes mobs of furious Hindus

1018
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: to take to the streets all throughout the cities of Gurot,

1019
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: shouting take revenge and slaughter the Muslims. Rioters cut open

1020
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: the stomachs of pregnant Muslim women and murdered babies. Hundreds

1021
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: of women were gang y. Yeah, this is where we

1022
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: get where that paragraph all right, Yeah, okay, touche, you

1023
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 1: son of a bit. There's mask gang rapes at least

1024
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: one Muslim boy is forced to drink kerosene and swallow

1025
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: a lit match. It's it's bad. It's a bad set

1026
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: of riots. Can you swallow a lit match? I'm no,

1027
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: I'm not. I know that's not the part I should

1028
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: focus on. It's not I don't think well, yeah, um

1029
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 1: And also a member of the Congress Party as San Joffrey,

1030
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: was caught by a crowd and publicly dismembered. So like,

1031
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 1: these are really bad rights. By the time it's all over,

1032
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: somewhere around two to three thousand people are dead, and

1033
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: the vast majority of them are Muslims, and it will

1034
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: will never get an exact death toll. Um. Reports began

1035
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 1: to filter out in the immediate wake that this violence

1036
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:23,399
Speaker 1: had not been purely spontaneous, just an uncontrollable expression of rage.

1037
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote from the New Yorker again, they

1038
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: appeared to have been largely planned and directed by the RSS.

1039
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 1: Teams of men armed with clubs, guns, and swords fanned

1040
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: out across the States Muslim enclaves, often carrying voter rolls

1041
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,240
Speaker 1: and other official documents that led them to Muslims homes

1042
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,919
Speaker 1: and shops so they get like government information on where

1043
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: Muslims are living in town. To carry out this stuff

1044
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 1: sounds very crystal Nocti. Yeah, Modi, the man in charge

1045
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: of the Guadi government was nowhere to be found, but

1046
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 1: his influence was felt everywhere as he ordered Indian Army

1047
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 1: soldiers to post up in their barracks rather than intervened

1048
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 1: to stop the violence. Police also received orders to stand down,

1049
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: and in many areous they just took part in the killing.

1050
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: One of the very few officers who did not go

1051
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 1: along with this was Rahul Sharma, the top cop and

1052
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: the heavily Muslim district of bob Nagar. He later testified

1053
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 1: that he received no word at all from his superiors

1054
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 1: on how to contain the riots, with which lasted more

1055
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: than three months. Sharma took matters into the riots lasted

1056
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: for more than three months. Yea three months of constant

1057
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: street violence. Holy ship. Yeah, it's hardcore. Um, it's a

1058
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 1: bad time um. And Sharma is one of like the

1059
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: few heroes of this time. So he like is being

1060
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 1: told nothing at all from his superiors, like what to

1061
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 1: do about these murder mobs? Um. And it kind of

1062
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: comes to a head when there's huge organized crowd of

1063
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: rss supporters with weapons start like posting up outside a

1064
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: school filled with four hundred Muslim children. Um, and he

1065
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: eventually orders his cops to like fire into the crowd,

1066
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: which is really maybe the only time I can think

1067
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 1: of where I'm like, yeah, it's good that the police

1068
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 1: shot at that crowd. Holy shit. But he successfully saves

1069
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 1: all these kids. He's a good guy. He did the

1070
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: right thing. Um, most police did not. The vast majority

1071
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: of Guadi police let the programs continue unabated. As a

1072
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 1: general rule, this too conforms to the standard behavior of

1073
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: law enforcement during acts of ethnic cleansing all around the world.

1074
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: The ones who do not actively participate very often sit

1075
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: back and watch. So we can assume anywhere there is

1076
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: ethnic cleansing occurring, the police will be a part of

1077
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: it actively rather than protecting the victims. That's just true.

1078
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: Multiple content for aligning. What's the opposite of a silver lining,

1079
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 1: like a ship streak? Yeah, it's like a ship streak.

1080
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 1: Yeah all right, yeah yeah, like a ship streak covering

1081
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 1: one of those like thin blue lines. Yeah. Um. So

1082
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: Sharma was shuffled out of his job and criticized by

1083
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 1: India's Home Minister. A b JP functionary named Advani for

1084
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: allowing too many Hindus to die in his district. So

1085
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 1: like one of the few cops who like does what

1086
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 1: you would hope a police officer due and protects the

1087
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 1: public gets like basically fired for the fact that too

1088
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: many Hindus died because like some of his cops had

1089
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: to like shoot at Hindus to like stop them from

1090
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: massacring all these school children. So in the end, two

1091
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 1: thousand people are more were killed in three months of

1092
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: horrific violence. More than a hundred and fifty thousand people,

1093
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: mostly Muslims, were forced out of their homes. As with

1094
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 1: the earlier rioting in September nineteen ninety, the Guzati riots

1095
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 1: left a vastly more polarized state in their wake. Muslims

1096
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 1: were forced out of neighborhoods they'd long inhabited and dumped

1097
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 1: into slums for their own safety. One of these formed

1098
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: in the vast garbage dump of the city of Amitabad.

1099
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 1: Citizens Village, as it came to be known, hosted tens

1100
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: of thousands of Muslim refugees. What little aid it received

1101
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: was supplied by volunteers. Narendra Modi's government refused to help

1102
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: when he was asked why he had abandoned these people,

1103
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: who were also citizens of Guzat. Moody replied, relief camps

1104
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: are actually child making factories. Those who keep on multiplying

1105
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 1: the population should be taught a lesson. Wow, he's a

1106
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 1: cool guy. Cool not coming, dude. The guzat Yots were

1107
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: met with a tepid response by the Indian government. Only

1108
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 1: a few dozen rioters were ever convicted of anything, and

1109
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: only one elected official in the b j P, Maya

1110
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: ben Kodnani, was ever convicted of murder and conspiracy. She

1111
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: was cleared of all charges when Moody became the Prime minister.

1112
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: So that's nice, Pretty convenient, Pretty convenient. I'm getting ahead

1113
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 1: of myself a little bit. Though the international community was

1114
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 1: outraged by what happened in Gurod and the RSS and Nearindra.

1115
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: Moody in particular became global pariahs. Moody was banned from

1116
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 1: travel to the United States or the United Kingdom. His

1117
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: reputation suffered enough that his fellow b JP members in

1118
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 1: India temporarily disavowed him. In two thousand four, the b

1119
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: JP Prime Minister at all was voted out of office

1120
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: and he blamed Nearindra Moody for his loss. So for

1121
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 1: a while it seemed like the guse Roight riots, as

1122
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: horrible as they were, had sounded a death knell to

1123
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: Moody's career and to the RSS. But of course those

1124
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: riots would prove to be only at the beginning, and

1125
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: on Thursday's episode, we're going to talk about what came next.

1126
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: But you know what it's time to talk about now.

1127
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: I don't know the amazing goods and services, the amazing

1128
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: plugs that you have to plug what. Yeah, we're in

1129
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: the p's on UM. Me and the other members of

1130
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: the b J p UM can be found on Twitter

1131
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 1: and Instagram at the Sophia so f I y A,

1132
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 1: and you can hear me on my two podcasts. One

1133
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: is on iHeart with Miles Gray from Daily Say Guys

1134
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 1: called for Twenty Day Fiance, and the other one is

1135
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: Private Parts Unknown with Courtney Kosak, where we travel all

1136
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: around the world and talk to people about love and

1137
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 1: sex and sexuality. Yeah, I love Courtney, Courtney's the best love,

1138
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: Courtney hate the growing spectr of international fascism. UM. Listen

1139
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: to Sophia's podcastle on her website as a quote from you.

1140
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: It is, it is. That's my only book jacket quote. Um,

1141
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 1: so listen to those podcasts. Maybe pick up a couple

1142
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 1: of ives, a couple of other weapons. Uh, just you know,

1143
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: get ready for your own local ethnic cleansing mobs. Um boy, howdye, Sophie?

1144
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: How do we end an episode? You can find Robert

1145
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: on Twitter alright, right, okay, you can find us on

1146
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: the twin Instagram and at Bastards Pod. You can find

1147
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: our sources underneath the episode notes if you just scroll down. Um,

1148
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: and you can listen Robert on Worst Year Ever. And

1149
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,479
Speaker 1: we have another project coming out very soon. Look for that. Yeah,

1150
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 1: the Women's War March Episode one mar trailer March eighteenth,

1151
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 1: look out for it. So, boys, Sophie, the way you

1152
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: handled that was so much more responsible than just telling

1153
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: the audience to arm themselves to fight against mobs of violence. Facts.

1154
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 1: I'm here before, thank you? All right, the episode is

1155
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 1: now over. Excellent