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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey There, and welcome back.

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Speaker 1: It's the Book of Joe Podcasts with Me, Tom Berducci

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Speaker 1: and back from Chicago, Joe Madden.

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Speaker 2: We've got a lot to talk about, Joe.

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Speaker 1: We've got Kyle Tucker, We've got Bobus shit, We've got

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame voting, lots going on, Luise Robert to

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Speaker 1: the New York Mets. But I'm going to start with

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Speaker 1: the big news, and that is Cubs Convention ten year

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Speaker 1: anniversary of the twenty sixteen world champion Chicago Cubs and

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Speaker 1: Joe Madden the guest of honor there.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you gotta tell me, Joe, what was that like.

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Speaker 1: I've been lucky enough to be a Cubs convention on

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Speaker 1: the quote unquote normal year and it's been awesome.

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Speaker 2: So tell me give me a sense of the vibe.

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Speaker 3: It was exaggerated, There's no question about that. First of all,

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Speaker 3: seeing all the guys again was even better than I

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Speaker 3: had envisioned. I had so many one on one wonderful

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Speaker 3: conversations with members of that team. We started out and

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Speaker 3: in listen, the Cubs did a great job. Great party,

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Speaker 3: well done, well organized, well Everything started out with a

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Speaker 3: party like a cocktail hour in our clubhouse, and they

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Speaker 3: had the clubhouse all decked out. Everybody's uniform was hanging

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Speaker 3: at their locker. You know, obviously plenty to drink. It

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Speaker 3: began there and that's where the conversation started. Guys would

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Speaker 3: just corner you and just want to start talking about

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Speaker 3: the past and wonderful and bring up different moments and

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Speaker 3: just revealing their true feelings. It was really quite touching.

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Speaker 3: And then went into the nineteen fourteen Club and that's

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Speaker 3: where the food was and the party continued. Nineteen fourteen

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Speaker 3: Club was right underneath the stands behind Home Played. It's

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Speaker 3: one of the nicest nightclubs in all of Chicago. So

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Speaker 3: I went to there and really, this is the first

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Speaker 3: night again Schwarves with everybody was there but a couple

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Speaker 3: of guys. I got to see all the dudes and

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Speaker 3: it was really wonderful to be in their company again. Then,

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Speaker 3: of course, the next night, Friday night, is the opening ceremony.

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Speaker 3: After all day long, you go through this myriad of

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Speaker 3: interviews and uh little spots everywhere, and just everyone wanting

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Speaker 3: to talk about the guys in the past, and we

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Speaker 3: did that. But then here comes the introductions, and so

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Speaker 3: we were the first group, will be the first group.

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Speaker 3: Uh yeah, we're the first group recognized. We had to

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Speaker 3: walk out there and the place is going nuts, and

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Speaker 3: we sit down, and then the regulars come in Today's guys,

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Speaker 3: and then eventually the real Hall of famers and they

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Speaker 3: sat in front of us. We were in the second row,

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Speaker 3: and my god, I mean, you know, I'm sitting next

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Speaker 3: to Billy. Billy Williams is right there, Jose Cardinal of course,

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Speaker 3: sut Jody Davis was there, Sean Dunston is.

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Speaker 4: It was just a really who's who right.

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Speaker 3: In front of us, and it's a big ballroom of

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Speaker 3: about I don't know, a couple thousand people at least,

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Speaker 3: and and it just really really well done. So and

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Speaker 3: then after that, Ryan Dempster's cut his own little version

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Speaker 3: of the Tonight Show. You sit up there with him

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Speaker 3: almost like you are on the Tonight Show. Just really

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Speaker 3: raucously well done, great conversation even it's kind of even

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Speaker 3: better than you remember, kind of a thing. So I

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Speaker 3: was really grateful for all that and grateful for that

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Speaker 3: group of guys, because truly these were charismatic men's men,

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Speaker 3: men's men kind of baseball players that were really closely knit,

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Speaker 3: and as much as you knew that from the past,

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Speaker 3: it was really demonstrated in Chicago during the convention.

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Speaker 1: Joe, you said something I was most curious about when

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Speaker 1: you get together some of these guys you haven't seen

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Speaker 1: for a while. I understand, and you mentioned true feelings. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: almost a little bit like if you have a high

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Speaker 1: school reunion. You know you're enough for a move from

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Speaker 1: maybe a friendship. You haven't seen somebody for a while,

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Speaker 1: maybe there's something you always wanted to say, or it's

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Speaker 1: a different perspective with length between you and the event.

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Speaker 1: This is ten years later. Give me a sense if

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Speaker 1: you can share something. Was there a story that you

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Speaker 1: heard from someone that you hadn't heard And again, obviously

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Speaker 1: you're the manager of this team.

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Speaker 2: You know these guys so well. But anything that was

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Speaker 2: shared with you, or maybe you shared with somebody else

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Speaker 2: that you were like that man is really cool both ways.

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Speaker 3: You know, I really don't want to reveal because there

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Speaker 3: are really personal conversations, but let me say that they were.

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Speaker 4: Validation of how I did things among the group.

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Speaker 3: You know, you do things. You win a World series

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Speaker 3: and win world championship and you do whatever you do,

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Speaker 3: and it's a pretty wonderful moment. But then if you

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Speaker 3: move the clock ten years ahead, and certain guys that

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Speaker 3: maybe you had, like I don't say a tough time with,

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Speaker 3: but guys you had to be absolutely frank with or

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Speaker 3: honest with. And we've talked about this too the conversation. Actually,

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Speaker 3: several said, listen, I've been wanting to talk to you

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Speaker 3: about this for a while. Thank god we have this opportunity.

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Speaker 3: And they would just go and it kind of blew

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Speaker 3: me away, blew me away. And it happened even to

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Speaker 3: a certain extent when I was with the Ras after

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Speaker 3: I had left the Rays, when guys have a chance

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Speaker 3: to digest everything that occurred and then they realize exactly

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Speaker 3: what you were doing and why to come back and

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Speaker 3: may be very complimentary actually, and it was all it

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Speaker 3: was like heartwarming and you know, me, I could cry

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Speaker 3: very easily. So all that stuff was in place, and

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Speaker 3: so that was I was not expecting that, Not even

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Speaker 3: for a second was I expecting that. And that came

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Speaker 3: from a large portion of the group. So it was

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Speaker 3: it was, you know, there's one of those things you

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Speaker 3: just don't know sometimes how guys really felt about you,

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Speaker 3: because in the moment, you're managing and you have to

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Speaker 3: make tough decisions, and sometimes you have to rep people

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Speaker 3: the wrong way just because it's for the betterment of

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Speaker 3: the entire group. But then to have fellows come up

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Speaker 3: to you years later and say, hey, you were right,

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Speaker 3: and on and on and on.

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Speaker 4: Wow, it just kind of tore me up a little bit.

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Speaker 3: And then on top of that, there was others that

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Speaker 3: I initiated contact with too, to make sure that they

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Speaker 3: know how much I appreciate it what they did and

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Speaker 3: how they did it. So it was a love best

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Speaker 3: there's no question about it. However, I was like absolutely

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Speaker 3: pleasantly surprised, shocked the validation coming from your group ten

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Speaker 3: years later really humbling and heartwarming and wonderful.

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy to hear that. And as you know, Joe,

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Speaker 1: I mean winning the championship. There's such a gap between

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Speaker 1: getting to that, in this case, the last game, the

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Speaker 1: seventh the game of the World Series, and actually winning

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Speaker 1: that game and finishing it off in terms of historical significance, importance,

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Speaker 1: you had a great group no matter what, whether you

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Speaker 1: win a game or lose the game. I think you

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Speaker 1: guys would have gotten together ten years hence and had

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Speaker 1: a great time, There's no question about it.

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Speaker 2: Very tight knit.

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Speaker 1: Group, a lot of them kind of the same age

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Speaker 1: in the prime of their career and then the older guys.

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Speaker 1: But winning and finishing it off. Give me a sense,

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Speaker 1: because I was there before the Cubs won at a

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Speaker 1: Cubs convention, the sense of the connection between Cubs fans

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Speaker 1: and this team and then specifically this team that it

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Speaker 1: did win, and the satisfied generations.

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Speaker 2: Really it's not an exaggeration.

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Speaker 1: Generations of Cubs fans who were waiting for that one moment,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure you picked up on that vibe in

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Speaker 1: the ballroom from the fans. So give me a sense

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Speaker 1: of what that meant that there was a championship now

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Speaker 1: to be shared, even though they love for the team

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Speaker 1: has been very intense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean comp would be the Bears was eighty

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Speaker 3: five Bears coach did cub That's the only comp I

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Speaker 3: could come up with, because you know, being in town

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Speaker 3: at that particular moment a couple of days ago, that's

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Speaker 3: when the Bears were playing the Rams the playoffs in

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Speaker 3: that city was absolutely on fire. It's freezing outside and

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Speaker 3: they're on fire. It was from every corner, right the bellman,

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Speaker 3: the ladies at the front desk, everybody in a hotel,

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Speaker 3: we're talking because they knew who we were, about us,

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Speaker 3: and then of course the Bears, and they were like

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Speaker 3: being let out of work early so they could watch

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Speaker 3: the game that night, and everywhere you went was absolutely buzzing.

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Speaker 3: And then I did draw the mental comps you know

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Speaker 3: about us back in twenty sixteen. I remember what the

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Speaker 3: city felt like. The whole town was dressed in the

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Speaker 3: red and blue colors. The office buildings were lit up

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Speaker 3: in those colors. I saw the same thing with the Bears.

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Speaker 3: The difference would be that we did that for so

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Speaker 3: many more games. I mean, this was like a one

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Speaker 3: game event once a week. The Bears fans had to endure,

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Speaker 3: whereas the Cubs there was like mini games that had

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Speaker 3: to be processed and played. And so I think the

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Speaker 3: vibe to a certain extent, could even be greater over

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Speaker 3: a period of time, but it's much. It's a lot

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Speaker 3: like that gratitude among the fans and listen. I had

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Speaker 3: to sit up there with the Dempster and he did

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Speaker 3: a nice job with the interview me in the right directions,

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Speaker 3: and I was able to once again thank the fans,

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Speaker 3: and you can see people nod their heads out there.

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Speaker 3: But it's true, the fan base there, I've never been

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Speaker 3: around anything like that personally, not only their love of

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Speaker 3: the team, but the the traditional or the the years

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Speaker 3: of loyalty to that group based on families and legacies

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Speaker 3: and things like. It's just incredible how thick and deep

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Speaker 3: that goes and for so many years. So if you

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Speaker 3: really permit yourself to wrap your mind about it, you

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Speaker 3: really have to understand the number of people you're impacting.

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Speaker 4: I listen, I meet.

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Speaker 3: People there while I was there, and that guys want

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Speaker 3: to start crying when they when they get to visit,

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Speaker 3: and then they start unloading on you, and it's it's

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Speaker 3: it's sincere, my god, is it's sincere. And you really

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Speaker 3: understand the importance of sports in a in a in

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Speaker 3: a culture, within a culture within our country. I mean,

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Speaker 3: the sports has been such a it still is a

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Speaker 3: large part of United States and how we operate and

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Speaker 3: the loyalties involved in the just the pure enjoyment we

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Speaker 3: get out of something like that. But the cub fans

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Speaker 3: to have their World Series realized ten years ago, not

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Speaker 3: that they don't want another one, but that definitely satiated

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Speaker 3: a lot of pain and anguish for so many years.

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Speaker 3: And I also thought this, as we come back for

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Speaker 3: further reunions, it's even going to intensify some more the

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Speaker 3: gratitude from the people that.

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Speaker 1: So well said Joe, I mean, listen, there are sometimes

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Speaker 1: I think all of us kind of look at what

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Speaker 1: we do and we say, well, where really is the

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Speaker 1: meaning of this? It's basically fun and games, right, We're

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Speaker 1: playing a game, we're keeping score, right. But you made

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Speaker 1: a good point the happiness that you can bring so

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Speaker 1: many people, which I'm sure you're not even aware of

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Speaker 1: when you're in the middle of things, but to get

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Speaker 1: that feedback had to be really, really satisfying. And the

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Speaker 1: other thing I want to ask you about, Joe, is

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty six Cubs. I'm sure you got a

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Speaker 1: sense from the fans there what they think about this team.

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Speaker 1: They hadn't been happy, because everybody wants things to happen

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Speaker 1: immediately in the course of the winter. It turns out

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Speaker 1: they made a couple of deals right before then, with

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Speaker 1: Edwin Cabrera and Alex Bregman. What was the vibe you

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Speaker 1: got on how Cubbs fans look at their team going

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Speaker 1: into twenty six.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, very solid, very optimistic, and there's a love affair

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Speaker 3: going on, no question. I think the thing I like

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Speaker 3: about this group also there's some there's some when I

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Speaker 3: say character characters, there's a lot of charisma about him too.

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Speaker 4: Bregman absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Was a perfectly timed acquisition for a lot of different

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Speaker 3: reasons to really stir him up the fan base. I

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Speaker 3: got to meet him briefly everything I thought he was,

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Speaker 3: and when he walked out there, there definitely was a

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Speaker 3: stir among the group.

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Speaker 4: Allowed stir so.

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Speaker 3: I think that to me, and you could, you could

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Speaker 3: analytically dive in him as much as you want. And

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Speaker 3: the part about analytics that just doesn't understand is just

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Speaker 3: the guy, the person, and what kind of impact he

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Speaker 3: can make. And among the group the players, it's definitely felt.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you got him Dansby, Swanson, Nico and Bush.

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Speaker 3: That's a really good infield. That's a really good infield

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Speaker 3: as baseball players and as you know, kind of guys,

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Speaker 3: the tough guys, guys that are somewhat charismatic or really charismatic,

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Speaker 3: And I use that word a lot, because I think

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Speaker 3: it's important. They were missing some of that, so the

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Speaker 3: fan base felt all of that and any other part

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Speaker 3: in that. Carbert, my god, is this guy big?

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Speaker 4: I did.

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Speaker 3: First of all, I didn't know who it was to be,

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Speaker 3: and I said, damn and Cobert, he's a big man.

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Speaker 3: The last point I want to make is armstrong. You

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Speaker 3: know he's very good, but I didn't realize how engaging

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Speaker 3: he is. Gregarious, well spoken, he's a history as a

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Speaker 3: student of the game, history of the game. I just

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Speaker 3: he and I got cornered before this event with Dempster

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Speaker 3: later on the last night, and I had a conversation

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Speaker 3: with him for at least twenty minutes to half an hour,

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Speaker 3: and he was very impressive.

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Speaker 4: And that's to me.

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Speaker 3: You could say all you want about his play and

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Speaker 3: defense and he got better at staying behind the ball, whatever.

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Speaker 4: But I really like this guy.

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Speaker 3: He's he's the kind of guy like I would love

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Speaker 3: to have the opportunity to manage, because that's what you're

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Speaker 3: looking for, a combination of physical and mental talent. He's

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Speaker 3: he gets it. It's not an act by any means.

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Speaker 3: So from a distance, you're always wondering wondering, wondering because

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Speaker 3: you hear him a lot of times when I'm telling

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Speaker 3: you it's it's it's real. And I'm a fan and

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Speaker 3: I wish him nothing but the best because I think

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Speaker 3: he's he is the kind of guy that really can't.

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Speaker 4: Stir the group up emotionally.

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Speaker 3: I know sometimes he may have gotten a little bit

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Speaker 3: gone the other direction emotionally, out of control when negative

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Speaker 3: things happen. I think he'll curtail that and control that

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Speaker 3: as we move forward. But overarching, man, fans dig this

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Speaker 3: group and I got a good feel about them.

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Speaker 1: That's so cool to hear, and I'm glad it sounds

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Speaker 1: like a really really cool weekend, Joe, And it was

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Speaker 1: for you. I mean, you probably won't say this, but

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Speaker 1: I will. Hopefully this reignites, you know, more involvement for

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Speaker 1: you in Cubs universe. There's no reason why you should

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Speaker 1: not be the only manager walking this earth right now

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Speaker 1: who has won a championship with the Cubs. Should be

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Speaker 1: an integral part of that organization, not just on a

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Speaker 1: reunion weekend. So hopefully something else more comes out of

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Speaker 1: it for you with the Cubs in terms of that

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Speaker 1: relationship you mentioned, Uh, Breggy and he signed an interesting

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Speaker 1: contract last year with the Red Sox that now looks

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Speaker 1: like it might be I don't know a template and

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Speaker 1: what's going on in baseball. We're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: some of these contracts here with Bishett and Tucker. We'll

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Speaker 1: do that right after this on the Book of Joe.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe.

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Speaker 1: I mentioned the Bregman contract last year with the Red

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Speaker 1: Sox where he's getting paid about forty million dollars a

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Speaker 1: year with an opt out. So the Red Sox essentially

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Speaker 1: got about three good months out of Bregman because as

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Speaker 1: he had the leg injury there, he missed a couple

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Speaker 1: of months and it just did not have his timing

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Speaker 1: at the end of the year. It did not hit

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Speaker 1: well down the end and the meantime they had the

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Speaker 1: trade didn't have to, but they did trade Ralphie Old

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Speaker 1: Devers as a function of that signing. So allowing someone

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Speaker 1: signing it a huge high aav short term with an

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Speaker 1: opt out, he's out the door. What they have to

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Speaker 1: show for it other than maybe a draft pick here.

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Speaker 1: But you see now the higher AAVs short term contracts

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Speaker 1: sort of like the NBA contracts and We'll start with

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Speaker 1: Kyle Tucker's contract. Joe, it's just amazing to think that,

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Speaker 1: you know, four years, two hundred and forty million dollars.

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Speaker 1: Let me give you a couple of numbers here, because

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Speaker 1: it's not just that there is some deferred money here.

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Speaker 1: By the way, so his contract averages with present day

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Speaker 1: value about fifty seven million dollars. But when you factor

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Speaker 1: in the taxes that the La Dodgers have to pay

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Speaker 1: because they have a payroll above four hundred million dollars,

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Speaker 1: so they're the highest tier of tech penalties, Kyle Tucker

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Speaker 1: is going to cost the Dodgers one hundred and nineteen

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Speaker 1: point nine million dollars per year. That is more than

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Speaker 1: eleven teams are paying their entire rosters. So I get

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Speaker 1: it where these teams say, you know what, we don't

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Speaker 1: want to be on the hook at the back end

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Speaker 1: of these long, long contracts where guys in his decline

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Speaker 1: phase and we're paying premium money for it.

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Speaker 2: So let's just pay them a lot of money in

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Speaker 2: the short period of time.

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Speaker 1: If you're the Dodgers, you defer a lot of it

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Speaker 1: because they're basically, you know, owned by Guggenheim, which can

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Speaker 1: invest the money in investment projects and products and make

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Speaker 1: some money off of that. They do have to fund

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Speaker 1: a lot deferred money, but that's not a problem for them.

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Speaker 1: So tell me what you think of this, Joe, Is

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Speaker 1: it a trending? Can more teams do that these high

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Speaker 1: average annual values over a short period of time, because

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Speaker 1: in four years, Kyle Tucker is going to make more

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Speaker 1: money than Barry Bonds made in his entire career.

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Speaker 3: But not believe money versus time, right, I mean, if

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Speaker 3: you're you're in a position like the Dodgers are, they

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Speaker 3: like they're kind of like printing it. You just describe

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Speaker 3: how they could actually print money and versus time. I

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Speaker 3: think the way the modern front office works, they just

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Speaker 3: don't want to be on the hook with a particular

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Speaker 3: guy for a period of time. That I think, which

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00:17:19,598 --> 00:17:22,158
Speaker 3: you're seeing right now, which I think it kind of

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Speaker 3: makes sense, is the heavy upload or frontloading of paying

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Speaker 3: these guys off just to make sure that, like you suggested,

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Speaker 3: at the end of their the age, when where the

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Speaker 3: client is probably or should or will happen, they don't

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Speaker 3: have to be on the hook and then they could

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Speaker 3: just move on from there. So I think obviously you

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Speaker 3: have to be in that kind of financial position to

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Speaker 3: work those kinds of contracts. So that's just going to

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Speaker 3: be unique to them and a couple other teams. There's

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Speaker 3: no nobody else is going to really be able to

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Speaker 3: want to do something like that. Several couple guys, but

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Speaker 3: the Dodgers do it as well as anybody because they're

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Speaker 3: in that position right now. They have absolutely performed on

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Speaker 3: the field, and so they're able to perform off the field,

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Speaker 3: and so they're probably the philosophical question is monopoly money

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Speaker 3: versus time, and so we have the monopoly money, so

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Speaker 3: let's just cut down on a time we get They

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Speaker 3: kind of went on both ends, and then the amount

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Speaker 3: that you said extrapolated over time. I mean still with

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Speaker 3: the CBA coming up next year, that could all be

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Speaker 3: curtailed in some regard, and that's just going to be

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Speaker 3: so curious how that all plays out. So everything's interconnected,

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Speaker 3: and they're they're kind of like you know, in a

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Speaker 3: position they they don't even have to worry about it.

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Speaker 3: The Dodgers, I mean, if they win their third in

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Speaker 3: a row, god, they could just ride that for a

364
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Speaker 3: while and feel pretty good about themselves. So they're still

365
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Speaker 3: going after number three, here comes the clicktive bargaining agreement.

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Speaker 3: We've already won three championships in a row, so we

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Speaker 3: could kind of uh surf along with this one until

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Speaker 3: it actually gets worked out. The last point is just loyalties.

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Speaker 3: Just talking about bregmant and all these new methods of

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Speaker 3: contracting people. You know, there was a time when, you know,

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Speaker 3: it was such a cool thing when your when your

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Speaker 3: favorite player played with your team forever. Obviously that's the

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Speaker 3: thing of the past, and loyalty as really, like a

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Speaker 3: lot of words in our society, have taken on a

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Speaker 3: different definition, where bias and truth have become the same.

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Speaker 3: Loyalty is definitely a one way straight I guess it

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Speaker 3: always has been, not been acknowledged necessarily, but to put

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Speaker 3: yourself as a player in a position to make a

379
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Speaker 3: lot of money and then have an opt out from

380
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Speaker 3: the player's perspective and the agent and not even from

381
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Speaker 3: the team's.

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Speaker 4: Perspective, they're okay with that.

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Speaker 3: I really believe they're okay with that, because again, the

384
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Speaker 3: loyalty issue, they always feel like they're going to be

385
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Speaker 3: able to generate or regenerate somebody in that position somehow,

386
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Speaker 3: So I think from the organizational perspective, they don't have

387
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Speaker 3: to worry about fans clamoring because they constantly get rid

388
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Speaker 3: of good guys or they're not loyal to this particular group.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's just part of the living room furniture. Now,

390
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Speaker 3: that's the way it is. So all these things are interesting,

391
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Speaker 3: but I think it's they're all explainable. I just think

392
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Speaker 3: it's a sign of the times and that's the way

393
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Speaker 3: the world works right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I hadn't actually thought about that, Joe, You're absolutely right.

395
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Speaker 1: The there's no expectation of loyalty now among fans. Like

396
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Speaker 1: Pete Alonzo leaves the New York Mets. He's their all

397
00:20:09,918 --> 00:20:14,038
Speaker 1: time franchise home run hitter, drafted, developed play for no

398
00:20:14,078 --> 00:20:16,598
Speaker 1: other team but the New York Mets. He leaves. I

399
00:20:16,638 --> 00:20:18,838
Speaker 1: can't tell you there was a big outcry, like why

400
00:20:18,878 --> 00:20:21,878
Speaker 1: didn't they sign this guy? There really wasn't. It's like this,

401
00:20:22,238 --> 00:20:25,958
Speaker 1: and obviously you can extrapolate this bigger picture. With our society,

402
00:20:26,238 --> 00:20:29,798
Speaker 1: it's always like what's next, what's new? Give me something different,

403
00:20:29,798 --> 00:20:32,838
Speaker 1: give me new, And there's this demand I think on

404
00:20:32,918 --> 00:20:35,278
Speaker 1: teams to start. Maybe it's not a demand, but I

405
00:20:35,318 --> 00:20:37,318
Speaker 1: think there's a subtle pressure that you know, what have

406
00:20:37,358 --> 00:20:40,758
Speaker 1: you done lately? What kind of changes are coming? You know,

407
00:20:40,998 --> 00:20:42,958
Speaker 1: nobody wants to sit still, even when you have a

408
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Speaker 1: good team.

409
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Speaker 2: So that's part and parcel of it.

410
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Speaker 1: And speaking of the Mets, by the way, Joe, I

411
00:20:47,238 --> 00:20:49,558
Speaker 1: think they are somewhat in the category of the Dodgers

412
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Speaker 1: because you know, Bashet's a really good player.

413
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Speaker 2: I like him a lot.

414
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Speaker 1: I think, to me, Joe, he's one of these kind

415
00:20:54,918 --> 00:20:56,278
Speaker 1: of guys. He's always going to hit.

416
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Speaker 2: He just has incredible bat to ball skills. He uses

417
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Speaker 2: the whole field. I like him a lot.

418
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Speaker 1: I don't think he's gonna have much of a problem

419
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Speaker 1: transitioning to third base, which will play for the New

420
00:21:06,918 --> 00:21:07,438
Speaker 1: York Mets.

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00:21:07,518 --> 00:21:08,758
Speaker 2: You know, he is a good athlete.

422
00:21:08,958 --> 00:21:11,438
Speaker 1: He was a little miscast as a shortstop the last

423
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Speaker 1: couple of years, lack of range.

424
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Speaker 2: I think he'll be fine at third base. I'm not

425
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Speaker 2: worried about the defensive side there.

426
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Speaker 1: And like I said, I think he's just a he's

427
00:21:17,958 --> 00:21:21,238
Speaker 1: a hitter, he's going to hit. But the Mets again

428
00:21:21,398 --> 00:21:24,798
Speaker 1: short term deal three years, one hundred and twenty six million,

429
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Speaker 1: so his forty two million per year with taxes equates

430
00:21:29,638 --> 00:21:34,798
Speaker 1: to eighty six million dollars per year for bo Chet.

431
00:21:34,878 --> 00:21:40,398
Speaker 1: Now he's a good player, impact player, franchise aircraft carrier. No,

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Speaker 1: so the Mets are somewhat in that Dodger category where

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Speaker 1: they going to afford to do that.

434
00:21:46,398 --> 00:21:48,958
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean his I know his daddy had Dante

435
00:21:48,958 --> 00:21:51,838
Speaker 3: when nineteen eighty four instructional League in Mace Arizona, and

436
00:21:51,918 --> 00:21:55,678
Speaker 3: Dante was the same way incredible back to ball skills,

437
00:21:56,118 --> 00:21:59,718
Speaker 3: just did Dante was one of the better bat ball

438
00:21:59,798 --> 00:22:02,638
Speaker 3: hitters I've ever had, and hit it hard too, and

439
00:22:02,678 --> 00:22:04,678
Speaker 3: it's it's kind of like his it over into bow

440
00:22:04,958 --> 00:22:07,838
Speaker 3: and again it's almost what you're talking about regarding the

441
00:22:07,958 --> 00:22:10,758
Speaker 3: lack of loyalt here. However, we want to describe it

442
00:22:11,558 --> 00:22:13,838
Speaker 3: the new cycle. The new cycle changes. I mean, something

443
00:22:13,998 --> 00:22:16,918
Speaker 3: inappropriate or bad happens, just hold on, that's going to

444
00:22:16,958 --> 00:22:18,398
Speaker 3: go away. Something new is going to come out to

445
00:22:18,398 --> 00:22:20,678
Speaker 3: more and that's going to be yesterday's news, which is

446
00:22:20,678 --> 00:22:24,598
Speaker 3: almost like five years AGO's five year ago news. I

447
00:22:24,598 --> 00:22:26,718
Speaker 3: think part of it is in this generation with this

448
00:22:27,198 --> 00:22:30,198
Speaker 3: nobody's concerned about making a mistake giving out this kind

449
00:22:30,198 --> 00:22:33,558
Speaker 3: of dough anymore because it's analytically driven. And again we've

450
00:22:33,558 --> 00:22:36,278
Speaker 3: talked about this before, and my impression is that analytics

451
00:22:36,318 --> 00:22:39,478
Speaker 3: does provide a safety net for decision making. So whomever

452
00:22:39,598 --> 00:22:42,838
Speaker 3: is running organizations, whether it's from the top ownership down

453
00:22:42,878 --> 00:22:46,158
Speaker 3: to the front offices, the fact that they're doing this

454
00:22:46,238 --> 00:22:49,878
Speaker 3: more on data and information compared to you know, say

455
00:22:50,118 --> 00:22:53,718
Speaker 3: Jack McKeon standing in a smoky lobby trying to swing

456
00:22:53,798 --> 00:22:56,518
Speaker 3: a deal for this next shortstop based on field gun,

457
00:22:56,638 --> 00:23:00,758
Speaker 3: you know, gut intuition and good old baseball sense.

458
00:23:01,318 --> 00:23:02,158
Speaker 4: Completely different.

459
00:23:02,358 --> 00:23:06,398
Speaker 3: And I think when you make mistakes now, based on

460
00:23:07,198 --> 00:23:09,718
Speaker 3: the way it's the information is generated.

461
00:23:09,278 --> 00:23:12,118
Speaker 4: It's more forgivable. I think that's what I'm saying.

462
00:23:12,198 --> 00:23:15,158
Speaker 3: So all this stuff is it's just again it's a

463
00:23:15,198 --> 00:23:18,918
Speaker 3: way of doing business right now, and when it doesn't work,

464
00:23:18,998 --> 00:23:21,598
Speaker 3: we'll just cast that aside, do something new because we

465
00:23:21,678 --> 00:23:25,638
Speaker 3: did it based on sound information and it didn't work out,

466
00:23:25,718 --> 00:23:27,398
Speaker 3: so we'll just move on to the next thing. And

467
00:23:27,398 --> 00:23:30,518
Speaker 3: I don't know that the level of accountability is great

468
00:23:30,678 --> 00:23:33,238
Speaker 3: for this kind of decision making compared to what it

469
00:23:33,278 --> 00:23:33,878
Speaker 3: once had been.

470
00:23:34,278 --> 00:23:36,838
Speaker 1: And real quick the Mets picking up Luis Robert Junior

471
00:23:36,918 --> 00:23:40,998
Speaker 1: from the Chicago White Sox. They traded Luis en hell Acuna,

472
00:23:41,078 --> 00:23:43,958
Speaker 1: Who's I think a dynamic player. I'm not sure he's,

473
00:23:44,518 --> 00:23:47,438
Speaker 1: you know, a six hundred at bat guy the big leagues,

474
00:23:47,478 --> 00:23:50,598
Speaker 1: but he's He's got skills, There's no question about it.

475
00:23:50,678 --> 00:23:52,838
Speaker 1: So it wasn't like they picked him up for nothing.

476
00:23:52,878 --> 00:23:55,198
Speaker 1: But Robert to me, is a good kind of a

477
00:23:55,198 --> 00:23:57,158
Speaker 1: one year of flyer here. I know he's got an option,

478
00:23:57,198 --> 00:24:00,118
Speaker 1: I think, but man, it's hard to find center fielders

479
00:24:00,158 --> 00:24:00,758
Speaker 1: in the game today.

480
00:24:00,838 --> 00:24:02,198
Speaker 2: The Mets needed a center fielder.

481
00:24:03,158 --> 00:24:05,718
Speaker 1: He did play better the second half of last year,

482
00:24:07,238 --> 00:24:09,318
Speaker 1: as bad as the White Sox have been the last

483
00:24:09,318 --> 00:24:11,838
Speaker 1: few years, and I understand they're starting to turn a corner.

484
00:24:12,158 --> 00:24:14,038
Speaker 1: I like the idea of taking somebody off of that

485
00:24:14,198 --> 00:24:17,158
Speaker 1: organization and reinvigorating them. And he's young enough to me,

486
00:24:17,398 --> 00:24:19,958
Speaker 1: Joe that I think that the ceiling is still there.

487
00:24:20,078 --> 00:24:22,798
Speaker 1: I'm not sure he'll reach what we thought he was

488
00:24:22,838 --> 00:24:24,918
Speaker 1: going to reach in terms of the ceiling. His skills

489
00:24:24,918 --> 00:24:27,478
Speaker 1: are great, So taking a chance on a young guy

490
00:24:27,718 --> 00:24:30,678
Speaker 1: with really good skills at a position that's hard to find,

491
00:24:31,958 --> 00:24:34,198
Speaker 1: I'm okay with this move by the Mets. It could

492
00:24:34,438 --> 00:24:37,558
Speaker 1: not work out for them, But taking this quote unquote

493
00:24:37,638 --> 00:24:39,598
Speaker 1: chance on Luis Robert Junior.

494
00:24:39,718 --> 00:24:41,558
Speaker 2: I think is a good one for the New York Mets.

495
00:24:42,318 --> 00:24:44,038
Speaker 3: I love it, Actually, I do like it a lot.

496
00:24:44,158 --> 00:24:46,678
Speaker 3: I think he needs to be in a more accountable situation.

497
00:24:48,398 --> 00:24:51,438
Speaker 3: Going from the White Sox where there was absolutely zero expectations,

498
00:24:51,478 --> 00:24:57,438
Speaker 3: there's like a multitude of losses, like epic losses, and

499
00:24:57,718 --> 00:24:59,478
Speaker 3: I don't even know what the clubhouse was like there

500
00:24:59,518 --> 00:25:01,918
Speaker 3: at all. But they he needs to be on some

501
00:25:01,998 --> 00:25:03,918
Speaker 3: veteran players that are going to hold him more accountable

502
00:25:04,038 --> 00:25:05,718
Speaker 3: to his day. You know, I look at him, I

503
00:25:05,758 --> 00:25:08,078
Speaker 3: think of George Solaira. I love Jorge Silira is one

504
00:25:08,118 --> 00:25:10,438
Speaker 3: of my just favorite guys. He's just a wonderful guy.

505
00:25:10,478 --> 00:25:13,118
Speaker 3: But Georgie got better as he moved it along. Although

506
00:25:13,118 --> 00:25:16,398
Speaker 3: Georgie really performed well even back and when he before

507
00:25:16,398 --> 00:25:19,398
Speaker 3: he really established himself in the playoff situation, A really

508
00:25:20,238 --> 00:25:23,358
Speaker 3: always showed up. I think this guy with the right

509
00:25:23,398 --> 00:25:26,838
Speaker 3: folks around him, I'm talking about specific players. You got

510
00:25:26,878 --> 00:25:30,878
Speaker 3: a Lindor right there right now, Semeon and Polanco right

511
00:25:30,878 --> 00:25:34,118
Speaker 3: now first base and others on this team, that's what

512
00:25:34,198 --> 00:25:38,118
Speaker 3: he needs. I really do believe that. So I'd be curious.

513
00:25:38,478 --> 00:25:43,158
Speaker 3: I saw him, I saw him up front specimen, absolute specimen.

514
00:25:43,638 --> 00:25:45,558
Speaker 3: Kind of the thing that I didn't like about him

515
00:25:45,558 --> 00:25:47,198
Speaker 3: a little bit on the stiff side. I thought, like

516
00:25:47,278 --> 00:25:49,918
Speaker 3: robotic in spite of being a that's kind of a

517
00:25:49,958 --> 00:25:53,318
Speaker 3: contrary to like being a great athlete, but not really.

518
00:25:53,078 --> 00:25:55,118
Speaker 4: The fluid kind of movements that you're looking for.

519
00:25:55,038 --> 00:25:56,998
Speaker 3: In a baseball player. And I think that if you

520
00:25:57,038 --> 00:25:59,798
Speaker 3: went to a scouting situation, you might discuss that or

521
00:25:59,838 --> 00:26:04,958
Speaker 3: talk about that in a meeting. So I'm curious, however,

522
00:26:05,878 --> 00:26:08,558
Speaker 3: look at Jo Odell. I mean, Joe Adell last year

523
00:26:08,558 --> 00:26:10,198
Speaker 3: had a kind of a break not kind of had

524
00:26:10,198 --> 00:26:12,318
Speaker 3: a breakout you're in, And Joe had that same kind

525
00:26:12,358 --> 00:26:15,798
Speaker 3: of patterns about him as a baseball player, not necessarily fluid,

526
00:26:15,838 --> 00:26:19,198
Speaker 3: but a great athlete. And I think Robert is kind

527
00:26:19,198 --> 00:26:21,878
Speaker 3: of along the same line. So I know Joe Odell

528
00:26:21,958 --> 00:26:25,518
Speaker 3: personally obviously, and he's one of my favorite players I've

529
00:26:25,518 --> 00:26:28,638
Speaker 3: ever had just as a person. I don't know Robert,

530
00:26:28,758 --> 00:26:31,198
Speaker 3: but I just think if you put the right group

531
00:26:31,238 --> 00:26:33,838
Speaker 3: around this guy from Jump Street, I mean, I would

532
00:26:33,878 --> 00:26:37,078
Speaker 3: definitely put his locker next to whomever I believe is

533
00:26:37,118 --> 00:26:40,198
Speaker 3: the most influential and best guy for him to talk

534
00:26:40,238 --> 00:26:42,158
Speaker 3: to on a daily Basis. I'd put his locker right

535
00:26:42,198 --> 00:26:44,398
Speaker 3: next to that guy, and I would tell that guy,

536
00:26:44,398 --> 00:26:47,078
Speaker 3: whomever it is, lindor whomever it's going to be, part

537
00:26:47,118 --> 00:26:49,318
Speaker 3: of his responsibility is to make sure that this guy

538
00:26:49,918 --> 00:26:51,918
Speaker 3: kind of gets it what he doesn't get right now.

539
00:26:52,318 --> 00:26:54,038
Speaker 4: So I think it's a great sign. I do. I

540
00:26:54,038 --> 00:26:54,278
Speaker 4: love it.

541
00:26:54,278 --> 00:26:56,118
Speaker 3: I actually I love what David Starrs is doing right now.

542
00:26:56,158 --> 00:26:58,638
Speaker 3: Everybody's complaining about a lot of stuff, but I like

543
00:26:58,718 --> 00:26:59,278
Speaker 3: what he's doing.

544
00:26:59,318 --> 00:27:01,718
Speaker 4: And he's got the small market plan.

545
00:27:01,798 --> 00:27:03,758
Speaker 3: I get that, but I kind of like the small

546
00:27:03,758 --> 00:27:05,838
Speaker 3: mare I could plan because we're just talking about how

547
00:27:06,158 --> 00:27:09,518
Speaker 3: guys ship regardless over the every couple of years and

548
00:27:09,558 --> 00:27:12,318
Speaker 3: you have to be flexible, and I think he is.

549
00:27:12,358 --> 00:27:13,798
Speaker 4: So I like it. Yeah.

550
00:27:13,838 --> 00:27:17,438
Speaker 1: And to me, Polanco and Bashett two for lack of

551
00:27:17,478 --> 00:27:19,878
Speaker 1: a better word, term baseball players.

552
00:27:19,998 --> 00:27:20,238
Speaker 4: Yeah.

553
00:27:20,318 --> 00:27:22,238
Speaker 1: Right, And for a team that, let's face it, they

554
00:27:22,278 --> 00:27:23,958
Speaker 1: did have. They can deny it all they want, they

555
00:27:23,998 --> 00:27:26,318
Speaker 1: did have clubhouse issues last year. That was not the

556
00:27:26,358 --> 00:27:28,358
Speaker 1: same team in twenty five as they were in twenty

557
00:27:28,398 --> 00:27:31,398
Speaker 1: four for whatever reasons. But I like the kind of

558
00:27:31,398 --> 00:27:34,038
Speaker 1: personalities they brought in. In a great point. On Robert, I

559
00:27:34,078 --> 00:27:36,598
Speaker 1: would put him next to Lindor. I mean he is

560
00:27:36,638 --> 00:27:40,678
Speaker 1: to me the leader may be too strong of a word.

561
00:27:40,918 --> 00:27:42,518
Speaker 1: He just leads in a different kind of way. He

562
00:27:42,598 --> 00:27:44,598
Speaker 1: is your franchise guy. I know you've got Won Soto

563
00:27:44,638 --> 00:27:47,318
Speaker 1: there as well, but Lindor is just more outgoing. If

564
00:27:47,318 --> 00:27:49,238
Speaker 1: you will, Who's going to take somebody under his wing?

565
00:27:49,318 --> 00:27:53,398
Speaker 1: I think I like that idea. And speaking of center fielders,

566
00:27:53,398 --> 00:27:56,478
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame vote, Joe Carlos Beltron and Andrew

567
00:27:56,558 --> 00:27:58,438
Speaker 1: Jones both elected to the Hall of Fame.

568
00:27:58,478 --> 00:27:59,598
Speaker 2: Congratulations to them.

569
00:27:59,598 --> 00:28:04,038
Speaker 1: The Baseball Writers had elected only eight center fielders in

570
00:28:04,078 --> 00:28:06,758
Speaker 1: its history, going back almost eighty years before this vote,

571
00:28:06,838 --> 00:28:10,958
Speaker 1: and two are going in now. Beltron to me, obviously,

572
00:28:10,998 --> 00:28:14,518
Speaker 1: he paid a penalty his third year in because of

573
00:28:14,518 --> 00:28:17,358
Speaker 1: this twenty seventeen Astro sign stealing scandal.

574
00:28:17,598 --> 00:28:19,358
Speaker 2: He was a big part of it. People, He was

575
00:28:19,398 --> 00:28:20,278
Speaker 2: a mastermind.

576
00:28:20,278 --> 00:28:21,678
Speaker 1: He was the one who said, hey, let's put the

577
00:28:21,718 --> 00:28:24,318
Speaker 1: monitor right near the dugout so we can get these

578
00:28:24,358 --> 00:28:26,958
Speaker 1: images in real time and transfer them onto the field.

579
00:28:27,038 --> 00:28:29,238
Speaker 1: He's a guy who played for the Yikes previously got

580
00:28:29,238 --> 00:28:31,798
Speaker 1: to Houston, and he basically said, you guys are behind

581
00:28:31,798 --> 00:28:33,598
Speaker 1: the time. There was a lot going on with sign

582
00:28:33,638 --> 00:28:37,518
Speaker 1: stealing he took it to another level. I didn't like

583
00:28:37,518 --> 00:28:40,078
Speaker 1: the fact that he never, at the time anyway owned

584
00:28:40,158 --> 00:28:41,998
Speaker 1: up to it. He was asked about it, he said, no,

585
00:28:42,078 --> 00:28:44,238
Speaker 1: we don't do anything that's illegal. We're not using a

586
00:28:44,238 --> 00:28:47,478
Speaker 1: center field camera. He flied out light about it. He

587
00:28:47,518 --> 00:28:49,158
Speaker 1: was told by Brian McCann to stop.

588
00:28:49,198 --> 00:28:51,278
Speaker 2: While it was going on. The manager A. J.

589
00:28:51,438 --> 00:28:54,238
Speaker 1: Hinch had busted the monitor twice a signal to the

590
00:28:54,278 --> 00:28:55,998
Speaker 1: team to knock it off, and they kept doing it

591
00:28:56,118 --> 00:28:57,078
Speaker 1: right through the postseason.

592
00:28:57,158 --> 00:28:58,958
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's.

593
00:28:58,998 --> 00:29:02,198
Speaker 1: It's I don't think it's an unforgivable it's an unforgettable

594
00:29:02,318 --> 00:29:04,638
Speaker 1: prime against the game to me. But it doesn't rise

595
00:29:04,638 --> 00:29:07,678
Speaker 1: to me the same level as peds, which are federally

596
00:29:07,718 --> 00:29:10,718
Speaker 1: controlled substances. And we've known for years and years and

597
00:29:10,758 --> 00:29:13,238
Speaker 1: years and years and years, going back to even Ben

598
00:29:13,318 --> 00:29:16,758
Speaker 1: Johnson in the nineteen eighties, that that's a shortcut that

599
00:29:16,878 --> 00:29:20,518
Speaker 1: is unethical in any kind of professional or even amateur sport.

600
00:29:21,278 --> 00:29:23,478
Speaker 1: This was something brand new that we didn't know was

601
00:29:23,518 --> 00:29:27,358
Speaker 1: even possible. And Andrew Jones, to me, is another guy.

602
00:29:27,438 --> 00:29:29,078
Speaker 1: He actually set a record.

603
00:29:29,118 --> 00:29:29,278
Speaker 4: Joe.

604
00:29:29,358 --> 00:29:32,478
Speaker 1: He debuted on the ballot at seven percent and in

605
00:29:32,598 --> 00:29:35,718
Speaker 1: nine years he got over the seventy five percent threshold

606
00:29:35,798 --> 00:29:37,038
Speaker 1: to seventy eight percent.

607
00:29:37,878 --> 00:29:40,078
Speaker 2: Why it takes so long. Yeah, there was a domestic

608
00:29:40,158 --> 00:29:43,358
Speaker 2: violence arrest. He's a guy who just.

609
00:29:43,318 --> 00:29:46,358
Speaker 1: Completely fell off the cliff at age thirty, basically didn't

610
00:29:46,398 --> 00:29:49,118
Speaker 1: take care of his body and wound up with an

611
00:29:49,158 --> 00:29:52,638
Speaker 1: OPS adjusted OPS of one to eleven, which is just hohum.

612
00:29:52,998 --> 00:29:56,038
Speaker 1: And you know, it took a while to appreciate that.

613
00:29:56,078 --> 00:29:59,998
Speaker 1: It is prime anyway, ten straight years averaging thirty five

614
00:30:00,038 --> 00:30:02,358
Speaker 1: home runs and winning the Gold Glove every year. So

615
00:30:02,638 --> 00:30:04,558
Speaker 1: that's where we're at in voting now, where we're looking

616
00:30:04,598 --> 00:30:07,558
Speaker 1: more at prime, the peak of somebody's career. It used

617
00:30:07,558 --> 00:30:09,478
Speaker 1: to be when I started voting, it was you need

618
00:30:09,478 --> 00:30:13,158
Speaker 1: peak and you needed longevity. It was much harder I started, Joe,

619
00:30:13,158 --> 00:30:16,838
Speaker 1: when three hundred game winners like Gaylord, Perry, Don Sutton,

620
00:30:16,878 --> 00:30:20,158
Speaker 1: Phil Nicro they needed three four five ballots to get in.

621
00:30:21,278 --> 00:30:24,078
Speaker 1: It's I'm not saying it was better than The voting

622
00:30:24,118 --> 00:30:27,838
Speaker 1: has evolved in some ways for the better. But first

623
00:30:27,838 --> 00:30:29,798
Speaker 1: of all, give me your take on seeing two center

624
00:30:29,838 --> 00:30:32,078
Speaker 1: fielders Beltron and Andrew Jones go in.

625
00:30:32,438 --> 00:30:35,038
Speaker 2: You've managed and coached against both of them.

626
00:30:35,158 --> 00:30:37,758
Speaker 3: Yeah, First of all, beltran I was a fan when

627
00:30:37,758 --> 00:30:39,238
Speaker 3: I first saw him with Kansas City.

628
00:30:39,878 --> 00:30:41,078
Speaker 4: Actually that was a.

629
00:30:41,038 --> 00:30:43,718
Speaker 3: Team I think Tony Muser was the manager. I can't

630
00:30:43,718 --> 00:30:47,078
Speaker 3: remember the exact years, but Johnny Damon was also on

631
00:30:47,118 --> 00:30:52,158
Speaker 3: that team, Germain Die, Joe Randa, Escobar, maybe there was

632
00:30:52,198 --> 00:30:57,478
Speaker 3: another shortstop that I really liked, Carlos Feblus, second base Sweeney,

633
00:30:58,278 --> 00:31:01,278
Speaker 3: then Montgomery and the bullpen. That team there, I could

634
00:31:01,358 --> 00:31:03,958
Speaker 3: not believe they broke it up because they were with

635
00:31:03,998 --> 00:31:06,758
Speaker 3: this with the Angels, and I thought, oh my god,

636
00:31:07,158 --> 00:31:09,278
Speaker 3: what is wrong with these people? That was like so

637
00:31:10,078 --> 00:31:12,998
Speaker 3: talented that group right there, They're just they were young,

638
00:31:13,358 --> 00:31:16,198
Speaker 3: they couldn't get it together yet, But my god, were

639
00:31:16,198 --> 00:31:19,758
Speaker 3: they talented. And Bell Tran switch hitter with you know,

640
00:31:19,918 --> 00:31:22,318
Speaker 3: pop from both sides ran just like this. He's one

641
00:31:22,358 --> 00:31:25,518
Speaker 3: of those easy athletes man, And it was just obvious

642
00:31:25,558 --> 00:31:28,718
Speaker 3: so of Kansas City had been a little bit more

643
00:31:28,758 --> 00:31:31,438
Speaker 3: patient there, they would have reaped through words a little

644
00:31:31,438 --> 00:31:31,918
Speaker 3: bit sooner.

645
00:31:31,958 --> 00:31:34,478
Speaker 4: And I've always been a Beltran fan Andrew Jones.

646
00:31:34,478 --> 00:31:37,118
Speaker 3: I didn't see as much being in an American league

647
00:31:37,118 --> 00:31:39,598
Speaker 3: most of the time. Obviously watched him a lot, and

648
00:31:39,638 --> 00:31:42,238
Speaker 3: there was a fluidity about his play too, and I know,

649
00:31:42,278 --> 00:31:44,598
Speaker 3: there was times that you know, Bobby Cox had issues

650
00:31:44,638 --> 00:31:46,438
Speaker 3: with him and how he went about his business, and

651
00:31:46,478 --> 00:31:49,438
Speaker 3: so from a player perspective, to me, it was easier

652
00:31:49,438 --> 00:31:50,998
Speaker 3: to see bel Trant as being a Hall of Famer

653
00:31:50,998 --> 00:31:53,438
Speaker 3: as opposed to Andrew Jones being Hall of Famer just

654
00:31:53,478 --> 00:31:56,198
Speaker 3: based on watching him on the field, the things that

655
00:31:56,718 --> 00:31:59,278
Speaker 3: you know Andrew did off the field, or and then

656
00:31:59,318 --> 00:31:59,918
Speaker 3: of course.

657
00:31:59,718 --> 00:32:01,838
Speaker 4: Bell Trand with the science deealing.

658
00:32:01,918 --> 00:32:05,438
Speaker 3: The thing about that particularly to me, part of that

659
00:32:05,518 --> 00:32:09,718
Speaker 3: is Baseball's fault. I mean with the not being somewhat

660
00:32:09,718 --> 00:32:12,318
Speaker 3: aware that with the advanced technology as it was, to

661
00:32:12,638 --> 00:32:15,998
Speaker 3: not be a little bit more proactively involved in preventing

662
00:32:15,998 --> 00:32:19,878
Speaker 3: the potential of things being stolen because of all the

663
00:32:19,918 --> 00:32:22,678
Speaker 3: different things that are coming on board at that particular time.

664
00:32:23,438 --> 00:32:25,358
Speaker 3: They just you just have to stay ahead of those

665
00:32:25,398 --> 00:32:27,998
Speaker 3: things as new things arrive. To me, I would just

666
00:32:28,318 --> 00:32:30,758
Speaker 3: hire people that like say, okay, this is just starting

667
00:32:30,838 --> 00:32:33,838
Speaker 3: or happening. What's going to go sideways because of this

668
00:32:34,318 --> 00:32:37,598
Speaker 3: new addition to what we're doing on a major league level.

669
00:32:37,638 --> 00:32:39,638
Speaker 4: So no nose, I mean it's their fault. I mean

670
00:32:39,678 --> 00:32:40,638
Speaker 4: they're the ones that are culpable.

671
00:32:40,678 --> 00:32:42,758
Speaker 3: And I still believe that we should have stayed ahead

672
00:32:42,758 --> 00:32:45,358
Speaker 3: of that a little bit better. So, yeah, I bolt

673
00:32:45,438 --> 00:32:47,918
Speaker 3: are great players. Like I said, I saw Beltrand more,

674
00:32:48,158 --> 00:32:50,758
Speaker 3: but I also believe like you're saying, I mean, there

675
00:32:50,838 --> 00:32:52,718
Speaker 3: might have been a higher standard back then.

676
00:32:52,918 --> 00:32:54,558
Speaker 4: Numerically speaking, I don't know.

677
00:32:54,598 --> 00:32:57,598
Speaker 3: I mean, the guys that are making it now, maybe

678
00:32:57,598 --> 00:33:00,038
Speaker 3: there's not as many that have built up those kind

679
00:33:00,078 --> 00:33:02,438
Speaker 3: of gaudy numbers that were built up in the past.

680
00:33:02,478 --> 00:33:03,598
Speaker 4: Definitely not what's starting pitchers.

681
00:33:03,638 --> 00:33:05,318
Speaker 3: They're not going to be permitted to get to the

682
00:33:05,318 --> 00:33:07,158
Speaker 3: point where they stay in games long enough to get

683
00:33:07,158 --> 00:33:10,238
Speaker 3: wins like they once were able to, or make that

684
00:33:10,318 --> 00:33:12,518
Speaker 3: many starts during the course of their career. All those

685
00:33:12,558 --> 00:33:16,718
Speaker 3: things are conspiring against starting pitchers to have that opportunity.

686
00:33:16,758 --> 00:33:18,278
Speaker 3: Hopefully the next one, one of the next ones would

687
00:33:18,278 --> 00:33:20,678
Speaker 3: be Johnny Lester getting that opportunity when.

688
00:33:20,598 --> 00:33:21,158
Speaker 4: It's his time.

689
00:33:21,278 --> 00:33:23,678
Speaker 3: So there's there's a lot to unpack with all that.

690
00:33:23,718 --> 00:33:27,718
Speaker 3: Tommy and these guys are absolutely great players. And you know,

691
00:33:27,838 --> 00:33:30,238
Speaker 3: I don't want to be biased to the previous generations

692
00:33:30,278 --> 00:33:31,718
Speaker 3: because that's what we grew up looking at the back

693
00:33:31,718 --> 00:33:34,198
Speaker 3: of baseball cards. These guys were like, and we didn't

694
00:33:34,198 --> 00:33:35,478
Speaker 3: you know, part of it was we didn't get to

695
00:33:35,518 --> 00:33:37,718
Speaker 3: see them all the time, so they were they were

696
00:33:37,798 --> 00:33:41,198
Speaker 3: larger than life. I mean without the streaming devices, being

697
00:33:41,238 --> 00:33:43,958
Speaker 3: able to watch your team play every night, all the

698
00:33:43,998 --> 00:33:46,478
Speaker 3: things that you can do right now, which I think

699
00:33:46,598 --> 00:33:49,318
Speaker 3: humanizes the players more than back in the day where

700
00:33:49,318 --> 00:33:52,558
Speaker 3: they were they were superhuman. They just were because we

701
00:33:52,598 --> 00:33:53,798
Speaker 3: got only had You had to show up at a

702
00:33:53,838 --> 00:33:56,238
Speaker 3: ballpark to see them, saw them once a week on

703
00:33:56,278 --> 00:33:58,478
Speaker 3: the game of the week or possibly mail Allen talking

704
00:33:58,478 --> 00:34:00,758
Speaker 3: about this week in baseball. Otherwise you didn't get to

705
00:34:00,758 --> 00:34:04,358
Speaker 3: see your guys, and so that really cast a large

706
00:34:04,598 --> 00:34:08,398
Speaker 3: ara about these fellows were compared to today and even

707
00:34:08,438 --> 00:34:10,598
Speaker 3: to the point with social media everything else. So anyway,

708
00:34:10,718 --> 00:34:14,558
Speaker 3: long answer, I think there's a good selections, but there's

709
00:34:14,678 --> 00:34:17,158
Speaker 3: there's so many different ways to view all this. And

710
00:34:18,078 --> 00:34:19,878
Speaker 3: you're one of the voters, so you get it as

711
00:34:19,958 --> 00:34:21,078
Speaker 3: well as anybody else does.

712
00:34:21,638 --> 00:34:24,918
Speaker 1: Yeah, one last quick note on the Hall of Fame vote.

713
00:34:24,918 --> 00:34:26,598
Speaker 1: The guys who didn't make it. It was a year

714
00:34:26,638 --> 00:34:28,758
Speaker 1: where it was it was not a strong ballot, if

715
00:34:28,758 --> 00:34:31,158
Speaker 1: you will, uh so you saw a lot of people

716
00:34:31,238 --> 00:34:32,078
Speaker 1: picking up games.

717
00:34:32,118 --> 00:34:34,438
Speaker 2: There were four players who had double.

718
00:34:34,198 --> 00:34:37,638
Speaker 1: Digit gains, including Felix Hernandez who went up twenty five

719
00:34:37,678 --> 00:34:42,078
Speaker 1: point five percent. That ties a record for the biggest

720
00:34:42,158 --> 00:34:44,758
Speaker 1: year to year game. So if you're going to look

721
00:34:44,758 --> 00:34:48,158
Speaker 1: at Felix Hernandez and Cole Hamil's as Hall of famers,

722
00:34:48,158 --> 00:34:50,278
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying they're going to get in, but

723
00:34:50,518 --> 00:34:53,878
Speaker 1: they're tracking pretty well here, man, you got to go

724
00:34:54,078 --> 00:34:57,598
Speaker 1: look back and people like David Kohane and Brett Saberhagen

725
00:34:57,678 --> 00:35:01,438
Speaker 1: and Luis te On and Tommy Bridges and Urban Shocker

726
00:35:01,558 --> 00:35:02,518
Speaker 1: and Kevin Brown.

727
00:35:02,758 --> 00:35:04,518
Speaker 2: There's a whole list of.

728
00:35:04,518 --> 00:35:07,358
Speaker 1: Guys who won more games through more innings with a

729
00:35:07,358 --> 00:35:09,598
Speaker 1: lower era than some of these guys were looking at.

730
00:35:09,638 --> 00:35:11,918
Speaker 2: And I realized that the standards, as you said, Joe,

731
00:35:12,038 --> 00:35:12,598
Speaker 2: they're different.

732
00:35:12,598 --> 00:35:14,798
Speaker 1: We're not seeing guys like Jack Morris taking the ball

733
00:35:14,838 --> 00:35:15,918
Speaker 1: in the eighth inning every start.

734
00:35:15,998 --> 00:35:16,718
Speaker 2: I get that.

735
00:35:17,478 --> 00:35:20,158
Speaker 1: But if the other guys were held to a much

736
00:35:20,238 --> 00:35:23,238
Speaker 1: higher standard and they see other guys who've accomplished less

737
00:35:23,318 --> 00:35:25,798
Speaker 1: going to the Hall of Fame, I mean there's a

738
00:35:25,878 --> 00:35:27,878
Speaker 1: lot of cleanup we need to do then to get

739
00:35:27,918 --> 00:35:30,958
Speaker 1: more people in who are not being held to these

740
00:35:30,998 --> 00:35:32,638
Speaker 1: new standards in the Hall of Fame. And if we're

741
00:35:32,678 --> 00:35:35,038
Speaker 1: going to talk about peaks, and you know, the Johann

742
00:35:35,078 --> 00:35:38,798
Speaker 1: Santanas of the world, the Tim Linscom's, the Madison bum Gardeners.

743
00:35:38,798 --> 00:35:40,998
Speaker 1: We have to go back and look at them now.

744
00:35:41,558 --> 00:35:45,358
Speaker 1: I'm just saying voting is very tricky. It constantly evolves.

745
00:35:45,398 --> 00:35:47,398
Speaker 1: This is nothing new. Back in the day when I

746
00:35:47,398 --> 00:35:50,398
Speaker 1: first started, people said, oh, only the inner circle guys.

747
00:35:50,838 --> 00:35:52,518
Speaker 2: You could vote for them for the first year. They're

748
00:35:52,558 --> 00:35:53,078
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame.

749
00:35:53,118 --> 00:35:56,758
Speaker 1: Like there was a different level unofficially, you know, so

750
00:35:56,838 --> 00:36:00,518
Speaker 1: guys like Gary Carter and Carlton Fisk, these guys had

751
00:36:00,518 --> 00:36:02,518
Speaker 1: to wait a couple of ballots or more to get in.

752
00:36:02,838 --> 00:36:04,758
Speaker 2: I'm glad that's gone your Hall of Famer. You're a

753
00:36:04,798 --> 00:36:07,878
Speaker 2: Hall of Famer. But it's a constantly evolving process.

754
00:36:07,918 --> 00:36:10,038
Speaker 1: I wouldn't take some of these numbers and say this

755
00:36:10,078 --> 00:36:12,798
Speaker 1: guy's definitely going in because he went up twenty two

756
00:36:12,798 --> 00:36:15,918
Speaker 1: percent this year or whatever it is. And just to

757
00:36:15,998 --> 00:36:18,518
Speaker 1: keep you abreast of what's on the horizon here. Next year,

758
00:36:18,758 --> 00:36:21,358
Speaker 1: Buster Posey is on the ballot along with Johnny Lester.

759
00:36:22,158 --> 00:36:25,118
Speaker 1: The year after that, Albert Poohols and Yadia Molina. The

760
00:36:25,198 --> 00:36:29,518
Speaker 1: year after that, Miguel Cabrera, Zach greenk Joey Evado. So

761
00:36:29,558 --> 00:36:31,278
Speaker 1: I think We're going to get back to the first

762
00:36:31,318 --> 00:36:34,958
Speaker 1: ballot Hall of Famers in the next three elections, and

763
00:36:35,038 --> 00:36:37,958
Speaker 1: after that it's pretty quiet in twenty thirty and after

764
00:36:38,158 --> 00:36:40,638
Speaker 1: that in twenty thirty one, it's long down the road.

765
00:36:40,638 --> 00:36:43,718
Speaker 2: I get it, Clayton Kershaw, so that just keep your

766
00:36:43,718 --> 00:36:44,198
Speaker 2: eye on that.

767
00:36:44,358 --> 00:36:46,478
Speaker 1: The Hall of Fame wasn't a big surprise that we

768
00:36:46,518 --> 00:36:47,758
Speaker 1: got two center fielders in.

769
00:36:47,838 --> 00:36:49,838
Speaker 2: That's the way we thought it was going to go.

770
00:36:50,558 --> 00:36:54,038
Speaker 1: And what I want to do next, Joe and I

771
00:36:54,158 --> 00:36:57,838
Speaker 1: love talking to you about managers and coaches and methodologies.

772
00:36:58,758 --> 00:37:01,798
Speaker 1: I'm sure if you didn't watch it the championship game

773
00:37:01,998 --> 00:37:07,078
Speaker 1: college football, I mean, if you're not impressed with Kurt Signetti, man,

774
00:37:07,558 --> 00:37:10,078
Speaker 1: you're missing something here. I got to get Joe's take

775
00:37:10,158 --> 00:37:13,718
Speaker 1: on a guy who really impressed me as a.

776
00:37:13,638 --> 00:37:17,638
Speaker 2: Manager of players and managing a game.

777
00:37:17,678 --> 00:37:19,558
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about that right after this on

778
00:37:19,638 --> 00:37:39,238
Speaker 1: the Book of Joe.

779
00:37:33,558 --> 00:37:33,798
Speaker 2: Joe.

780
00:37:33,878 --> 00:37:37,838
Speaker 1: The look of Kurt Signetti on the sidelines there, it

781
00:37:37,918 --> 00:37:39,318
Speaker 1: doesn't remind you of anybody.

782
00:37:39,598 --> 00:37:41,838
Speaker 2: I mean, he's got a great game face.

783
00:37:42,278 --> 00:37:44,998
Speaker 4: Adam Siminski, I knew you were going to go there.

784
00:37:45,278 --> 00:37:48,038
Speaker 3: High school football coach, My god, his teeth would fall

785
00:37:48,078 --> 00:37:49,918
Speaker 3: out when it was I go to talk to him

786
00:37:49,918 --> 00:37:51,638
Speaker 3: on the sideline, and he would only wear a short

787
00:37:51,638 --> 00:37:53,518
Speaker 3: sleeve shirt. He would not wear a long sleep short

788
00:37:53,598 --> 00:37:56,158
Speaker 3: or a jacket to prove to us, you know, it's

789
00:37:56,198 --> 00:37:58,838
Speaker 3: not cold when it was cold, and he had his

790
00:37:58,958 --> 00:38:01,398
Speaker 3: teeth on the side kind of knocked out by Alan

791
00:38:01,438 --> 00:38:04,518
Speaker 3: Amichi when he was playing at Michigan State, like hooked

792
00:38:04,558 --> 00:38:06,878
Speaker 3: on and he get to rattle in and gets so

793
00:38:06,998 --> 00:38:08,798
Speaker 3: cold that these suckers would fall out while I was

794
00:38:08,838 --> 00:38:11,798
Speaker 3: talking to him. Sometimes he'd reached out, pick him up

795
00:38:11,798 --> 00:38:14,398
Speaker 3: and put him back in. So that was a look

796
00:38:14,438 --> 00:38:16,278
Speaker 3: that none of us will ever forget. And we all

797
00:38:16,318 --> 00:38:18,998
Speaker 3: love them too. I mean, you could not be tougher

798
00:38:19,238 --> 00:38:22,438
Speaker 3: than him, it was impossible. So yes, I've been through

799
00:38:22,478 --> 00:38:24,958
Speaker 3: the look. And then I said Erstad because I always

800
00:38:24,998 --> 00:38:27,398
Speaker 3: love Ersty's scowl.

801
00:38:28,118 --> 00:38:31,118
Speaker 4: When he was did not approve of what was going

802
00:38:31,158 --> 00:38:31,518
Speaker 4: on around.

803
00:38:31,558 --> 00:38:34,598
Speaker 3: If Signetti's got that look, and I would say that

804
00:38:34,638 --> 00:38:38,398
Speaker 3: coach Sabin probably has that look too, So Signetti Sabin,

805
00:38:38,478 --> 00:38:41,438
Speaker 3: I think that's those are like, even though Signetti has

806
00:38:41,438 --> 00:38:43,878
Speaker 3: not had the success that Sabin's had, but these are

807
00:38:43,958 --> 00:38:46,758
Speaker 3: guys that when it comes to young players, I don't

808
00:38:46,758 --> 00:38:49,918
Speaker 3: know Saban really wasn't as successful as pro wise, and

809
00:38:50,238 --> 00:38:52,038
Speaker 3: I don't know if Signetti would be too. But on

810
00:38:52,038 --> 00:38:54,958
Speaker 3: the level that they're working right now, their combination of

811
00:38:55,038 --> 00:38:59,078
Speaker 3: intellectual wisdom and their ability to get their point across,

812
00:38:59,118 --> 00:39:02,358
Speaker 3: and there's such great speakers in regard to getting their

813
00:39:02,358 --> 00:39:06,078
Speaker 3: point across along with this visual that's going to scare

814
00:39:06,118 --> 00:39:07,758
Speaker 3: the crap out of any twenty year old.

815
00:39:08,318 --> 00:39:08,558
Speaker 2: Yeah.

816
00:39:08,598 --> 00:39:10,918
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough that my high school football coach

817
00:39:10,958 --> 00:39:14,838
Speaker 1: was my dad, and he was He was awesome, There's

818
00:39:14,878 --> 00:39:17,278
Speaker 1: no question about it. So I was coached at home

819
00:39:17,318 --> 00:39:20,078
Speaker 1: as well as on the football field. But there was

820
00:39:20,118 --> 00:39:22,718
Speaker 1: a quality that he had that Signetti has and Joe

821
00:39:22,718 --> 00:39:26,998
Speaker 1: Madden has as a manager, and that is that I'm

822
00:39:26,998 --> 00:39:28,758
Speaker 1: not saying this because I was his son, because I

823
00:39:28,758 --> 00:39:30,798
Speaker 1: saw it happen with everybody else of the team.

824
00:39:30,918 --> 00:39:33,678
Speaker 2: Where you don't want to disappoint the coach.

825
00:39:34,238 --> 00:39:39,398
Speaker 1: That is a powerful quality if you can engender the trust,

826
00:39:39,638 --> 00:39:42,558
Speaker 1: and that's essentially what it is. And I see that

827
00:39:42,678 --> 00:39:45,558
Speaker 1: with the way Indiana plays, they do not want to

828
00:39:45,638 --> 00:39:51,038
Speaker 1: disappoint their coach. Sometimes the coaches are alienated from their players.

829
00:39:51,038 --> 00:39:53,918
Speaker 1: Like you could create attention if you will, and players

830
00:39:53,958 --> 00:39:56,078
Speaker 1: like I'm going to show this guy. But in this case,

831
00:39:56,118 --> 00:39:59,118
Speaker 1: it's pure trust I see and the other thing I saw.

832
00:39:59,198 --> 00:40:00,758
Speaker 1: And this is why I brought this up, because we

833
00:40:01,318 --> 00:40:03,358
Speaker 1: know about you know, his look on the sidelines, and

834
00:40:03,398 --> 00:40:05,318
Speaker 1: we know he's got the trust of his players. But

835
00:40:05,678 --> 00:40:09,478
Speaker 1: the way he ran that game, you know, twice going

836
00:40:09,638 --> 00:40:13,078
Speaker 1: forward on fourth down. The first time, he knows that

837
00:40:13,438 --> 00:40:16,158
Speaker 1: he's got this kid at Becker, the wide receiver who

838
00:40:16,198 --> 00:40:18,598
Speaker 1: literally has not dropped the ball all year. I just

839
00:40:18,638 --> 00:40:20,238
Speaker 1: throw it to his back shoulder and he's going to

840
00:40:20,318 --> 00:40:22,358
Speaker 1: find a way to catch the base with the football.

841
00:40:23,118 --> 00:40:27,118
Speaker 1: And then after the field goal team comes on on

842
00:40:27,278 --> 00:40:29,558
Speaker 1: fourth down closer to the goal line, he's like, wait

843
00:40:29,558 --> 00:40:33,478
Speaker 1: a second. You know, having a field goal still allows

844
00:40:33,558 --> 00:40:36,278
Speaker 1: them to win the game with a touchdown. We need

845
00:40:36,318 --> 00:40:39,158
Speaker 1: to go bigger than that puts the offense back on

846
00:40:39,238 --> 00:40:42,358
Speaker 1: the field. It was interesting that he thought that he

847
00:40:42,478 --> 00:40:44,958
Speaker 1: saw Miami in a certain defense and if they showed

848
00:40:44,998 --> 00:40:49,038
Speaker 1: the same look on fourth down, he called the quarterback drop,

849
00:40:49,038 --> 00:40:51,078
Speaker 1: which they don't run a whole lot, and that's exactly

850
00:40:51,078 --> 00:40:53,478
Speaker 1: what Miami did, and the play worked perfectly. They score

851
00:40:53,518 --> 00:40:55,398
Speaker 1: the touchdown, and then at the end of the game,

852
00:40:55,478 --> 00:40:58,358
Speaker 1: Joe Miami's driving down the field. They have no timeouts left.

853
00:40:58,998 --> 00:41:01,638
Speaker 1: How many times have you seeing the defensive team actually

854
00:41:01,678 --> 00:41:04,758
Speaker 1: call a time out, essentially doing a favor for the

855
00:41:04,798 --> 00:41:08,238
Speaker 1: team that's out of timeouts. But he did it because

856
00:41:08,238 --> 00:41:11,238
Speaker 1: he saw there was a little bit of I don't

857
00:41:11,238 --> 00:41:13,238
Speaker 1: want to say they were confused, but they were out

858
00:41:13,278 --> 00:41:16,238
Speaker 1: of sorts a little bit. Their defense calls time out,

859
00:41:16,438 --> 00:41:19,678
Speaker 1: settles the game, they intercept the ball the next play.

860
00:41:20,038 --> 00:41:22,598
Speaker 1: I was just so impressed by the way he had

861
00:41:22,678 --> 00:41:26,038
Speaker 1: everything under control when the game was really at its

862
00:41:26,078 --> 00:41:28,198
Speaker 1: most urgent and critical moments.

863
00:41:28,678 --> 00:41:31,638
Speaker 3: He did a lot of his work off Broadway, right,

864
00:41:31,718 --> 00:41:34,598
Speaker 3: was it, James Madison? Yeah, I drive by that place

865
00:41:34,838 --> 00:41:36,438
Speaker 3: on the way to Florida all the time. It's a

866
00:41:36,478 --> 00:41:39,358
Speaker 3: really good looking ballpark two so it's right off Interstate

867
00:41:39,398 --> 00:41:43,798
Speaker 3: eighty one, Purple seats, kind of big. But guys like that,

868
00:41:43,878 --> 00:41:45,918
Speaker 3: when you get a chance to do your workoff Broadway,

869
00:41:46,358 --> 00:41:48,718
Speaker 3: you could try things, You could do different things. It's

870
00:41:49,478 --> 00:41:52,598
Speaker 3: an easel or open canvas that you could just create

871
00:41:53,038 --> 00:41:54,878
Speaker 3: and again try things, and if they don't work, we

872
00:41:54,878 --> 00:41:57,478
Speaker 3: could re evaluate and move on. And I'm saying that

873
00:41:57,558 --> 00:42:00,318
Speaker 3: because I felt the same way coming up on all

874
00:42:00,358 --> 00:42:02,438
Speaker 3: the backfields that I worked on, all the outposts that

875
00:42:02,478 --> 00:42:04,318
Speaker 3: I worked on where you see a you see what

876
00:42:04,358 --> 00:42:06,518
Speaker 3: he does in the National Championship game. But to him,

877
00:42:06,838 --> 00:42:08,758
Speaker 3: he had done that several other times. It was in

878
00:42:08,798 --> 00:42:12,638
Speaker 3: his head. He'd been in different situations where we've talked

879
00:42:12,638 --> 00:42:15,038
Speaker 3: about Phil Venterino and El Paso, where I screwed that

880
00:42:15,078 --> 00:42:17,878
Speaker 3: one up? Or the time I put want ads on

881
00:42:17,878 --> 00:42:21,158
Speaker 3: the back of toilet stalls in Midland, how I screwed.

882
00:42:20,878 --> 00:42:21,398
Speaker 4: That one up?

883
00:42:22,318 --> 00:42:25,358
Speaker 3: Or when I, you know, started working a five man

884
00:42:25,478 --> 00:42:27,758
Speaker 3: defense back in the minor leagues and then that worked

885
00:42:27,798 --> 00:42:30,358
Speaker 3: a couple of times. You know, there's the outpost is

886
00:42:30,398 --> 00:42:33,718
Speaker 3: a great place. Off Broadway is a great place to

887
00:42:33,798 --> 00:42:37,958
Speaker 3: grow and really try things that are you. And of

888
00:42:37,998 --> 00:42:40,198
Speaker 3: course we're all plagiarists, so you know, you get the idea.

889
00:42:40,238 --> 00:42:41,878
Speaker 3: I got the idea of the five man from watching

890
00:42:41,958 --> 00:42:44,358
Speaker 3: Gene and I think Billy Martin too, But then again,

891
00:42:44,398 --> 00:42:46,318
Speaker 3: it has to be years and how do you practice it,

892
00:42:46,318 --> 00:42:48,998
Speaker 3: how do you apply it, and et cetera, et cetera,

893
00:42:49,158 --> 00:42:52,358
Speaker 3: and what are the mechanics of it? So I that's

894
00:42:52,358 --> 00:42:55,838
Speaker 3: what I see with a guy like Signetti. He worked

895
00:42:55,838 --> 00:42:59,078
Speaker 3: off Broadway and with that he's able to hone all

896
00:42:59,118 --> 00:43:02,038
Speaker 3: of this, and to his credit, when he got on Broadway,

897
00:43:02,318 --> 00:43:04,878
Speaker 3: he didn't change anything. He's still the same cat. And

898
00:43:04,918 --> 00:43:07,398
Speaker 3: that's that's where a lot of guys make mistakes. So

899
00:43:08,078 --> 00:43:12,198
Speaker 3: when you are successful, when you get elevated, there's this

900
00:43:12,918 --> 00:43:16,918
Speaker 3: perceived need to change and to do something differently because

901
00:43:16,918 --> 00:43:19,038
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, I am here and he did

902
00:43:19,078 --> 00:43:19,518
Speaker 3: not do that.

903
00:43:19,958 --> 00:43:22,518
Speaker 1: Yeah, just amazing job he did there in two years,

904
00:43:22,518 --> 00:43:26,238
Speaker 1: turned around a program that had no history of success.

905
00:43:26,358 --> 00:43:30,438
Speaker 1: Really know, and it just really impressive. I knew that

906
00:43:30,518 --> 00:43:32,398
Speaker 1: you noticed that in the job that he did, so

907
00:43:33,478 --> 00:43:36,798
Speaker 1: really enjoyed your perspective there. And speaking of perspective, Joe,

908
00:43:36,838 --> 00:43:39,878
Speaker 1: I mean, you're just back from Chicago. This is your

909
00:43:39,958 --> 00:43:42,078
Speaker 1: chance to end this episode of the Book of Joe.

910
00:43:42,358 --> 00:43:44,238
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you're going to go to Carl Sandberg.

911
00:43:44,318 --> 00:43:46,638
Speaker 1: You got a Chicago theme here after getting a taste

912
00:43:46,678 --> 00:43:48,758
Speaker 1: of the Windy city, What do you have for us

913
00:43:48,798 --> 00:43:49,238
Speaker 1: this time?

914
00:43:49,598 --> 00:43:51,278
Speaker 4: I was going with greatness. I was going with the

915
00:43:51,318 --> 00:43:52,358
Speaker 4: Hall of Fame on this one.

916
00:43:53,078 --> 00:43:56,558
Speaker 3: So I was researching different thoughts and ideas with that,

917
00:43:57,438 --> 00:44:02,878
Speaker 3: and there's so many wonderful people involved in and got

918
00:44:02,878 --> 00:44:05,678
Speaker 3: a couple but I'm gonna start with Hemingway. There's nothing

919
00:44:05,718 --> 00:44:09,358
Speaker 3: noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility

920
00:44:09,518 --> 00:44:12,518
Speaker 3: is being superior to your former self. And that reminded

921
00:44:12,558 --> 00:44:16,078
Speaker 3: me of something I always thought, as you ascend, I

922
00:44:16,158 --> 00:44:19,318
Speaker 3: wasn't competing against anybody else. I was competing against myself.

923
00:44:19,878 --> 00:44:24,158
Speaker 3: So as I moved up the ladder doing whatever I wanted,

924
00:44:24,198 --> 00:44:27,278
Speaker 3: a better version of me on an annual basis, whether

925
00:44:27,318 --> 00:44:29,398
Speaker 3: it was what I was saying, how I was saying it,

926
00:44:30,198 --> 00:44:33,238
Speaker 3: how I presenting it, the same thing, kind of adding

927
00:44:33,238 --> 00:44:38,518
Speaker 3: to my abilities, whatever it might be, through going to

928
00:44:38,558 --> 00:44:41,998
Speaker 3: a clinic, talking to a more experienced coach, manager, from

929
00:44:41,998 --> 00:44:45,998
Speaker 3: an office, whatever it was, You're always looking to add

930
00:44:46,678 --> 00:44:51,478
Speaker 3: to what got you to that particular point. So just

931
00:44:51,558 --> 00:44:53,998
Speaker 3: trying to condense and putting, in my words, compete against

932
00:44:54,038 --> 00:44:55,078
Speaker 3: yourself to be better.

933
00:44:55,398 --> 00:44:57,838
Speaker 4: That's what I always did. And I was really.

934
00:44:59,518 --> 00:45:01,998
Speaker 3: Very aware of that, really aware of it, and again

935
00:45:02,038 --> 00:45:05,398
Speaker 3: as part of the gratitude I had for not getting

936
00:45:05,478 --> 00:45:08,878
Speaker 3: any kind of particular job way before it was my

937
00:45:09,038 --> 00:45:12,318
Speaker 3: time to get it. And then finally with mister Churchill,

938
00:45:12,678 --> 00:45:16,118
Speaker 3: the price, the price of greatness is responsibility. It gets

939
00:45:16,158 --> 00:45:17,958
Speaker 3: lonely at the top, doesn't it. I mean, that's what

940
00:45:17,998 --> 00:45:20,398
Speaker 3: they say, and it's true. When you're the dude that

941
00:45:20,438 --> 00:45:22,798
Speaker 3: has to make the final decision, you can be lonely

942
00:45:22,838 --> 00:45:25,918
Speaker 3: because you I say, you know, hopefully, if it's more

943
00:45:25,958 --> 00:45:28,318
Speaker 3: than fifty percent agree with you, that'd be wonderful. But

944
00:45:28,318 --> 00:45:30,598
Speaker 3: if you even get fifty one percent, you're you're lucky.

945
00:45:31,118 --> 00:45:34,958
Speaker 3: So you have to be willing to take along that responsibility.

946
00:45:35,318 --> 00:45:38,998
Speaker 3: And regarding Major League Baseball players becoming Hall of famers,

947
00:45:39,718 --> 00:45:43,438
Speaker 3: the responsibility of sacrifice, personal sacrifice, work a little bit more,

948
00:45:43,478 --> 00:45:45,398
Speaker 3: a couple more, a couple more, with this, couple.

949
00:45:45,158 --> 00:45:45,518
Speaker 4: More of that.

950
00:45:46,078 --> 00:45:48,478
Speaker 3: So these guys that were talking about if you could

951
00:45:48,558 --> 00:45:50,398
Speaker 3: roll back the tape of somebody who was a videographer

952
00:45:50,438 --> 00:45:52,518
Speaker 3: with them every step of the way to the point

953
00:45:52,558 --> 00:45:53,678
Speaker 3: where they get in the Hall of Fame, we're going

954
00:45:53,718 --> 00:45:56,158
Speaker 3: to see a dude that was worked a lot, had

955
00:45:56,158 --> 00:45:59,078
Speaker 3: a lot of failures, never quit, and got better because

956
00:45:59,118 --> 00:45:59,318
Speaker 3: of it.

957
00:45:59,438 --> 00:46:01,598
Speaker 4: So that's what I thought about for today.

958
00:46:01,878 --> 00:46:04,678
Speaker 3: I was thinking about the Hall of Fame and to

959
00:46:04,718 --> 00:46:08,558
Speaker 3: compete against yourself to become better. And then the price

960
00:46:08,598 --> 00:46:12,558
Speaker 3: of greatness is responsibility that you've earned by being in

961
00:46:12,558 --> 00:46:15,478
Speaker 3: that position. And it's very important to understand that and

962
00:46:15,478 --> 00:46:16,558
Speaker 3: the accountability of it.

963
00:46:16,718 --> 00:46:17,518
Speaker 2: Great stuff, Joe.

964
00:46:17,558 --> 00:46:20,758
Speaker 1: I really liked the Hemingway angle there of competing against yourself,

965
00:46:20,798 --> 00:46:22,758
Speaker 1: always just trying to be better in every little way.

966
00:46:22,878 --> 00:46:25,078
Speaker 1: That's why, you know, I hear people and I hear

967
00:46:25,118 --> 00:46:27,838
Speaker 1: this term brain rot. People were just scrolling on their

968
00:46:27,878 --> 00:46:31,718
Speaker 1: phones absent mindedly. How is that making you better? I

969
00:46:31,718 --> 00:46:35,118
Speaker 1: don't understand that, complete waste of time. And I've always

970
00:46:35,438 --> 00:46:38,038
Speaker 1: I've always sort of lived by that, Joe, and I

971
00:46:38,078 --> 00:46:41,678
Speaker 1: hadn't heard that Hemingway quote before, So I appreciate that

972
00:46:41,718 --> 00:46:43,398
Speaker 1: for you bringing that up.

973
00:46:43,638 --> 00:46:43,958
Speaker 4: Thank you.

974
00:46:43,998 --> 00:46:46,558
Speaker 3: I mean, I've really always felt that when you're right

975
00:46:46,598 --> 00:46:51,558
Speaker 3: about the the the amateurs really.

976
00:46:51,678 --> 00:46:52,918
Speaker 4: Consuming most of our time.

977
00:46:52,958 --> 00:46:54,838
Speaker 3: I mean, that was a concern I've had several years

978
00:46:54,878 --> 00:46:59,638
Speaker 3: ago when at the advent of social media, because basically

979
00:46:59,638 --> 00:47:03,558
Speaker 3: everybody becomes a reporter and it kind of minimizes the

980
00:47:03,598 --> 00:47:04,438
Speaker 3: actual professionals.

981
00:47:04,478 --> 00:47:06,318
Speaker 4: People that have.

982
00:47:05,598 --> 00:47:09,398
Speaker 3: Gone to go forward have sat locker room talking sports wise,

983
00:47:09,398 --> 00:47:10,838
Speaker 3: in a locker room, a dirty locker room, in the

984
00:47:10,878 --> 00:47:14,358
Speaker 3: minor leagues, whatever, honeing your craft. Eventually, move move, move up,

985
00:47:14,838 --> 00:47:17,758
Speaker 3: and you get to the point where you have credibility

986
00:47:17,758 --> 00:47:20,558
Speaker 3: among the people you're talking to and then eventually you

987
00:47:20,598 --> 00:47:23,718
Speaker 3: become who you are and it's earned. Whereas today, if

988
00:47:23,718 --> 00:47:26,278
Speaker 3: you have a telephone, small production crew, all of a sudden,

989
00:47:26,278 --> 00:47:29,518
Speaker 3: you become a journalist, which is really annoying because there's

990
00:47:29,558 --> 00:47:34,078
Speaker 3: no level of accountability with that. They could say whatever

991
00:47:34,118 --> 00:47:35,878
Speaker 3: they want. And that's the part about all that that

992
00:47:35,918 --> 00:47:39,478
Speaker 3: bothers me. And that's the part that from jump Street

993
00:47:39,478 --> 00:47:41,518
Speaker 3: I'm talking about. When I first this first came on board,

994
00:47:41,558 --> 00:47:44,238
Speaker 3: that was my concern was the fact that now we're

995
00:47:44,238 --> 00:47:48,038
Speaker 3: going to have amateurs running this whole thing, and the

996
00:47:48,078 --> 00:47:51,718
Speaker 3: professionals are going to be pushed aside because obviously the

997
00:47:51,798 --> 00:47:53,598
Speaker 3: amateurs gonna say whatever they want to get away with it.

998
00:47:53,918 --> 00:47:56,358
Speaker 3: The pros had to really validate and research what they

999
00:47:56,398 --> 00:47:58,958
Speaker 3: were going to put out there and write and and

1000
00:47:58,958 --> 00:48:01,078
Speaker 3: and have to back it up, which is not necessarily

1001
00:48:01,118 --> 00:48:03,358
Speaker 3: true anymore. So that's what I that's what I think

1002
00:48:03,358 --> 00:48:05,798
Speaker 3: about with all of this. I love the idea that

1003
00:48:05,878 --> 00:48:08,158
Speaker 3: you know yourself, and there's so many others. I just

1004
00:48:08,238 --> 00:48:10,078
Speaker 3: was texting with Joel Sherman. You say, people that I

1005
00:48:10,118 --> 00:48:13,038
Speaker 3: really respect in the industry. Too many times I'll read

1006
00:48:13,078 --> 00:48:14,838
Speaker 3: an article and to be kind of scathing, and then

1007
00:48:14,878 --> 00:48:17,158
Speaker 3: I look at who wrote it, and it's normallysch to

1008
00:48:17,318 --> 00:48:21,518
Speaker 3: some young person that really has not built relationships, done time,

1009
00:48:21,598 --> 00:48:25,718
Speaker 3: really researched whatever, and it's purely based on hopefully getting

1010
00:48:25,798 --> 00:48:27,118
Speaker 3: some kind of attention for it.

1011
00:48:27,558 --> 00:48:28,918
Speaker 4: Not good, not good.

1012
00:48:28,998 --> 00:48:31,998
Speaker 3: And that's that's the part of the social media world

1013
00:48:31,998 --> 00:48:33,598
Speaker 3: that I find discouraging.

1014
00:48:33,878 --> 00:48:34,478
Speaker 2: Great stuff.

1015
00:48:34,598 --> 00:48:36,518
Speaker 1: Joe, We'll see you next time of the Book of Joe,

1016
00:48:36,558 --> 00:48:39,718
Speaker 1: and happy tenth anniversary year.

1017
00:48:40,238 --> 00:48:40,798
Speaker 4: Thank you brother.

1018
00:48:40,798 --> 00:48:43,038
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to Well, it's the next We're gonna

1019
00:48:43,038 --> 00:48:44,798
Speaker 3: be fifteen or twenty. You're supposed to go every five

1020
00:48:44,838 --> 00:48:45,678
Speaker 3: years from now on, aren't you.

1021
00:48:45,998 --> 00:48:47,838
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I'll do it every year.

1022
00:48:48,198 --> 00:48:50,958
Speaker 4: Yeah, Hey, we've talked about that. It was that much fun.

1023
00:48:51,358 --> 00:48:51,918
Speaker 4: Thanks brother.

1024
00:48:59,958 --> 00:49:03,158
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1025
00:49:03,358 --> 00:49:08,358
Speaker 1: For more podcast from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1026
00:49:08,478 --> 00:49:10,238
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.