1
00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 1: Advice. Hello, welcome to the Naughty but Nice Show. We

2
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,560
Speaker 1: have a really special episode today. We don't do many

3
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,320
Speaker 1: of these special episodes because, to be honest, there's not

4
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,279
Speaker 1: that many special people out there that I really want

5
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,760
Speaker 1: to talk with. Today we have a treat. We have

6
00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,920
Speaker 1: an award winning filmmaker Tom Jennings who has the most

7
00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:36,640
Speaker 1: extraordinary new documentary about Princess Diana. It's called Diana in

8
00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,760
Speaker 1: her Own Words. And the reason it's called that is

9
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:44,839
Speaker 1: this intimate story is basically told through the Princess's own recordings.

10
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:49,720
Speaker 1: This is her voice, Tom, are you there? I am here, Rob,

11
00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,880
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me, and I love

12
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,360
Speaker 1: to talk about how this film came to be. It's

13
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,600
Speaker 1: very special. It's a once in a lifetime project. Let's

14
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,760
Speaker 1: jump in right there. That's my very first question. How

15
00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:07,040
Speaker 1: did this happen? Well, it happened actually several years ago.

16
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,640
Speaker 1: The whole process started several years ago, and it was

17
00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,840
Speaker 1: in ten that National Geographic Channel for which we do

18
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,880
Speaker 1: a lot of work, asked us to do something for

19
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 1: the twentie anniversary of Diana's death, which was in anniversary,

20
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,440
Speaker 1: and we have kind of perfected this format for them

21
00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,040
Speaker 1: and some other networks to where we do programs that

22
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,280
Speaker 1: use only archive as you see in the Diana film,

23
00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,840
Speaker 1: and we don't have a narrator and we don't do

24
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:44,200
Speaker 1: interviews do other films like that the traditional style, but

25
00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:46,920
Speaker 1: we really have kind of cornered the market on this,

26
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,440
Speaker 1: and so they said, please come up with something for

27
00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,400
Speaker 1: the anniversary. They agreed with me that there were going

28
00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,720
Speaker 1: to be thirty or thirty five films coming out, documentary

29
00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:02,200
Speaker 1: nonfiction projects about the Diana and they said, well, you

30
00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,760
Speaker 1: need to find something different. You're a clever guy, Tom,

31
00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:11,000
Speaker 1: you'll figure it out. And my background is actually in

32
00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,360
Speaker 1: print journalism before I started making this, and so I

33
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:19,359
Speaker 1: had known about a book that came out in by

34
00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,800
Speaker 1: the British author Andrew Morton. And Andrew Morton was pilloried

35
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,280
Speaker 1: at the time because everyone said this book was full

36
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,359
Speaker 1: of lies and it was all about how miserable Diana

37
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,360
Speaker 1: was and the marriage was falling apart. And it wasn't

38
00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,639
Speaker 1: until after her death that he admitted that Diana had

39
00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,079
Speaker 1: been the source for the book, and still people didn't

40
00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,760
Speaker 1: believe him. And he said, oh, by the way, I

41
00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,120
Speaker 1: have the audio tapes that she made for me that

42
00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,560
Speaker 1: the book is based on and he wound up releasing

43
00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,600
Speaker 1: transcripts of those tapes and a couple of snippets in

44
00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:55,960
Speaker 1: two thousand and four, but no one had ever heard

45
00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,280
Speaker 1: the tapes before. In their entire there are seven hours

46
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,320
Speaker 1: of tapes and just as a bit of background, the

47
00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,040
Speaker 1: way they did it is Diana had a mutual friend

48
00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,560
Speaker 1: named Dr James Coulthurst, who also knew Morton, and she

49
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,840
Speaker 1: decided in that she wanted to tell her story. Morton

50
00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:18,440
Speaker 1: would write questions, give them the Colthurst, who would literally

51
00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,240
Speaker 1: ride his bicycle through the gates of Kensington Palace, not

52
00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,240
Speaker 1: kidding that's how he would go because he was a

53
00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,959
Speaker 1: friend of Diana. He would be waved through. They would

54
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:33,239
Speaker 1: find some quiet turret in the palace and uh and

55
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,760
Speaker 1: call Thurst brought a tape recorder and for several hours

56
00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,920
Speaker 1: each time, over the period of about six or seven months,

57
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 1: he would read questions from Morton. Diana would answer them,

58
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,880
Speaker 1: and they sound very colloquial as you in the film,

59
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,720
Speaker 1: because she's not talking to a journalist even though she's

60
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,600
Speaker 1: answering the questions, She's talking to a very good friend

61
00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,560
Speaker 1: of and call Furst would leave the palace, they would

62
00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:04,480
Speaker 1: meet at some It's what Morton would call a busman's cafe,

63
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,280
Speaker 1: someplace you wouldn't expect to find Royal reporters hanging out.

64
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,600
Speaker 1: And he would get the tapes and start listening to

65
00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,960
Speaker 1: them and it was mind blowing. So what I did

66
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,279
Speaker 1: is I tricked, because I knew those tapes existed. I

67
00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,640
Speaker 1: tracked down Andrew Morton and I called him up in

68
00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,560
Speaker 1: London and I told him who I was and what

69
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,520
Speaker 1: I was doing, and he said, get in line, mate.

70
00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,960
Speaker 1: I was here about the two thousand producers asked me

71
00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,240
Speaker 1: to have access to these tapes, and they said, Andrew, Andrew,

72
00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,880
Speaker 1: wait a minute, we're doing this completely differently. There's no narrator,

73
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,479
Speaker 1: and we're not going to interview anyone. If no one's

74
00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,920
Speaker 1: going to tell you what Diana was like, it's just

75
00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 1: gonna be her. There was this long, long pause, and

76
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,080
Speaker 1: I was waiting for a please please, biggest cross biggest crossed.

77
00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,600
Speaker 1: And you know what he said, Rock, He's telling no

78
00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,120
Speaker 1: one has ever asked me to do it that way before.

79
00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,200
Speaker 1: And then he said, how soon can you come to

80
00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:10,520
Speaker 1: London today? Two days later, I was in Los Angeles,

81
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 1: that's where we're based. Two days later I got on

82
00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,280
Speaker 1: a plane for the overnight to heat throw. I took

83
00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,200
Speaker 1: a cab and and the tube to get to his

84
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 1: publisher's office, which this day, I have to tell you

85
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,840
Speaker 1: it was like a fairy tale in my life. His

86
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 1: publisher's office was, you know, a thatched roof of ivy

87
00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:39,120
Speaker 1: covered the whole country. It was. It was like walking

88
00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:44,760
Speaker 1: in a dream. Perfect. And so we went in. I

89
00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:49,359
Speaker 1: met Andrew. He brought out the real tape in the cassette,

90
00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,560
Speaker 1: which are he keeps in a bank box. He went

91
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,440
Speaker 1: and got the box for me, but he had had

92
00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,640
Speaker 1: them digitized, which he kept in a very safe place.

93
00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,920
Speaker 1: And for the next seven hours we sat in this

94
00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 1: very small room, very small office, pouring rain. I remember

95
00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,120
Speaker 1: there was a skylight so you could hear the rain,

96
00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:16,880
Speaker 1: drinking tea of course, and listening to Diana tell her

97
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,640
Speaker 1: story like she was sitting in the room with us. Oh, Tom,

98
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,039
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you pulled this off, because now we

99
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,440
Speaker 1: get to hear those tapes. I should point out to

100
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,599
Speaker 1: everybody listening. I've covered Diana for a long time, you

101
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:34,080
Speaker 1: said a minute ago. There was about thirty documentaries around

102
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,560
Speaker 1: her death. I was on twenty nine of them. So

103
00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,240
Speaker 1: they normally interview feels like me to talk about Diana.

104
00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 1: I'd never heard these tapes. A lot of them have

105
00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,120
Speaker 1: never been broadcast. Before I knew about them. I didn't

106
00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,520
Speaker 1: know Andrew Morton would ever ever release them. When he

107
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,679
Speaker 1: finally said yes, Tom, what did you do? Well? Before

108
00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,919
Speaker 1: he said yes, he he looked at me, you know, like,

109
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,919
Speaker 1: what do you think when it all finished? And it

110
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,440
Speaker 1: was extraordinary as you've heard, and he said, you know,

111
00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,800
Speaker 1: I was going to go to my grave and not

112
00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,840
Speaker 1: give these to anyone, But if you promise this is

113
00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,880
Speaker 1: how you're going to do it, I'll give them to you.

114
00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,640
Speaker 1: Do you think he was holding onto these tapes because

115
00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,280
Speaker 1: he was worried about Diana? Was she his friend? What

116
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,840
Speaker 1: was the reason? I don't know that she was his friend?

117
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,920
Speaker 1: They if they met, they hardly met it all, actually,

118
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,680
Speaker 1: which is surprising. However, I think he just felt they

119
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:40,880
Speaker 1: were so precious and so important that it wasn't up

120
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,040
Speaker 1: to him to make the decision to release them, even

121
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,600
Speaker 1: though Diana had recorded them knowing that the information would

122
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 1: be made public. That's why she made the recordings. He

123
00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:56,600
Speaker 1: just he was very protective of those tapes and he

124
00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,920
Speaker 1: needed to trust someone at the highest possible level to

125
00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,280
Speaker 1: do right by the tapes. And after meeting me and

126
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,960
Speaker 1: I showed him some of my work on previous projects

127
00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:12,200
Speaker 1: where we had used only archive to tell stories. I

128
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,800
Speaker 1: promised him at that time that that's how we would

129
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,320
Speaker 1: do it, and we shook hands. I went back to

130
00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,240
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. I talked to National Geographic by the way,

131
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,800
Speaker 1: I flew back that night. I was in London for

132
00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:29,240
Speaker 1: about fifteen hours. I had other things to do right,

133
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,120
Speaker 1: but this is too important. Get those tapes back to America.

134
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,360
Speaker 1: Tub We'll see the talent on the next trip. I'll

135
00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,839
Speaker 1: take you to booking them Palice sight seeing. Next tip.

136
00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:39,640
Speaker 1: So you got back to l A. Did you know

137
00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,880
Speaker 1: that you had hit gold? Yes, yes, I knew. I

138
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,800
Speaker 1: knew what we had. We had to be very protective

139
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:51,640
Speaker 1: of the tapes, and it was I felt a great

140
00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,800
Speaker 1: sense of responsibility. We do a lot of history programming

141
00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:00,480
Speaker 1: and sometimes we find recordings or footage that are very

142
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:05,840
Speaker 1: dramatic or there the types of things that can change

143
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,880
Speaker 1: how people think about history. In this case, Diana states,

144
00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:16,600
Speaker 1: don't they do that? And however, because we now had

145
00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:22,640
Speaker 1: all of her recordings and these really intimate stories in

146
00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:28,040
Speaker 1: her voice instead of in print. I felt tremendous responsibility

147
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,200
Speaker 1: to treat them with the greatest respect. When I add

148
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,840
Speaker 1: also for her boys, U and I and I certainly

149
00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,840
Speaker 1: can't equate my life to theirs living in fame the

150
00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:44,040
Speaker 1: way they do. But I was eight years old when

151
00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,920
Speaker 1: my mother died, and um, so I know what that's like.

152
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:49,599
Speaker 1: And you know a lot of people say, oh, it

153
00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,560
Speaker 1: was a long time ago, get over it. And for

154
00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,160
Speaker 1: a boy to lose his mother at a young age, um,

155
00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,320
Speaker 1: it never goes away. It crosses your mind at least

156
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:04,040
Speaker 1: once a day, and it completely changes your worldview. So

157
00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,800
Speaker 1: not only did I feel a responsibility to Diana and

158
00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,760
Speaker 1: how we presented the material, but I felt a responsibility

159
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,320
Speaker 1: to her son's because they may or may not have

160
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,080
Speaker 1: watched this. I'm sure they've heard about it. If they

161
00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,280
Speaker 1: have watched it, i'd like to think that they thought

162
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,480
Speaker 1: it was a right and proper job and how we

163
00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,280
Speaker 1: treated it, and I think we did. It's a beautiful,

164
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,880
Speaker 1: beautiful documentary. Once again, I've seen every single one of

165
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,760
Speaker 1: these documentaries type of documentaries. I've probably been on half

166
00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,600
Speaker 1: of them myself as a talking head. I sat down

167
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,960
Speaker 1: to watch this yesterday. I was in tears by the

168
00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,200
Speaker 1: end and I think you just explained something that I

169
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,680
Speaker 1: didn't understand. This is not Diana being interviewed by a

170
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,080
Speaker 1: fool like me. This is not Diana on the morning

171
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,440
Speaker 1: shows putting on a happy face. She I can imagine,

172
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,560
Speaker 1: is sitting in her bedroom in the palace, maybe on

173
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,240
Speaker 1: her bed, talking to a friend and they recorded. Do

174
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:03,000
Speaker 1: you think that she would be upset that these are

175
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,640
Speaker 1: now out in the public, I would hope not. I

176
00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,200
Speaker 1: think the way we treated them and the way we

177
00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:15,679
Speaker 1: presented them, and how we were very true to everything

178
00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,800
Speaker 1: she said we were. One thing we did is we

179
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,200
Speaker 1: found stories that she talked about, as you saw in

180
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:26,319
Speaker 1: the film, for example, early on the black Dress where

181
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,680
Speaker 1: she went out and Charles had a problem with what

182
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,640
Speaker 1: she was wearing, and she was only nineteen at the time.

183
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,880
Speaker 1: We purposely chose stories, and there are many more that

184
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,080
Speaker 1: are not in the film, but we purposely chose one

185
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:45,800
Speaker 1: where we had images and footage to illustrate the exact story.

186
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:51,079
Speaker 1: So it's as if she sat down in a narrator

187
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,880
Speaker 1: booth and narrated the film for us, because we married

188
00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:02,520
Speaker 1: everything two images that really explained what she was talking

189
00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,720
Speaker 1: about and on purpose, if you recall, we chose news

190
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,800
Speaker 1: reports that would help illuminate what was going on in

191
00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,280
Speaker 1: the time, and all the news reports were about how

192
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,880
Speaker 1: happy they are and how loving, and especially that night

193
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,680
Speaker 1: we were talking about with the black dress, um she

194
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,000
Speaker 1: met Princess Grace and the news reporter is talking about, oh,

195
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,440
Speaker 1: how lovely she looks with Princess Grace, and Diana on

196
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,000
Speaker 1: the tapes of saying, I was absolutely horrified. I was sick.

197
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,520
Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do. I'm meeting Princess Grace,

198
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,880
Speaker 1: for God's sake, I didn't remember. She says, I didn't

199
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 1: know whether to hold my handbag in the left hand

200
00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,560
Speaker 1: or the right hand. There's another example, so there's many,

201
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,800
Speaker 1: many examples, but she talks about the night that she

202
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,160
Speaker 1: went to Camilla's forty birthday party in her own words,

203
00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,600
Speaker 1: what that felt like meeting the woman that you knew

204
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,080
Speaker 1: was with your husband. And the example too that really

205
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 1: took my breath away is when we all got up

206
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,160
Speaker 1: early to watch that royal wedding. She got up early too,

207
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,480
Speaker 1: but her experience about it was very different, and she

208
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,160
Speaker 1: talks about having a night before. Once again, this is

209
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,440
Speaker 1: her talking. This is not a narrator. It's Diana the

210
00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,960
Speaker 1: night before, being up to the wee hours throwing up

211
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,640
Speaker 1: her bulimia was out of control, and she said the

212
00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,480
Speaker 1: morning of the wedding, when everybody was going crazy, she

213
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:32,000
Speaker 1: felt calm and her biggest priority was helping her dad

214
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,080
Speaker 1: Dan the aisle, who seemed to be having more fun

215
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,840
Speaker 1: there than she did. It is extraordinary. What is the

216
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,480
Speaker 1: takeaway from this? What shocked you the most listening to

217
00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,680
Speaker 1: all seven hours of this, is there one thing that

218
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:50,199
Speaker 1: stood at The fairy tale often is not true the

219
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,000
Speaker 1: You know, we're all raised with the fairy tale, especially

220
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:59,120
Speaker 1: British fairy tales. You know, it's the Arthurian legends, Shakespeare,

221
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,240
Speaker 1: and we tend to believe the my day my Prince

222
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:09,920
Speaker 1: will come storyline snow White Disney, and that's all well

223
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,280
Speaker 1: and good as a fantasy. But she was and she

224
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,600
Speaker 1: went into that one thing you noticed in the film

225
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,400
Speaker 1: when she starts out when she's nineteen and let's all

226
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:24,240
Speaker 1: remember what we were doing with nine Good Grief, and

227
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:28,840
Speaker 1: then you see her evolve, for example, but even by

228
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,680
Speaker 1: the time the wedding girls around, she has this doubt

229
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:37,040
Speaker 1: behind her eyes, and she narrates that several years later

230
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,920
Speaker 1: after the wedding about what she was actually feeling. I

231
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,160
Speaker 1: think my biggest takeaway is that we we want to

232
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,680
Speaker 1: believe in the fairy tale, and uh, people like Princess

233
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 1: Diana um were and others like her are not necessarily

234
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,320
Speaker 1: living the most charmed of lives that we would like

235
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 1: to believe. We want them to be so that we

236
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,440
Speaker 1: can continue to believe in fairy tales. But the reality

237
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,960
Speaker 1: of it is very different. It certainly certainly is now

238
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,760
Speaker 1: after all this research on this access that you've had

239
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,160
Speaker 1: that really very few people in the world have had.

240
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,680
Speaker 1: What do you think she would think about what's happening

241
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 1: today with her sons. Oh, that's a good question. I

242
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,400
Speaker 1: think she'd be very proud of William. Uh. You know,

243
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 1: towards the end of the film, we use some statements

244
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,040
Speaker 1: from her about how she's subtly behind the scenes trying

245
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,960
Speaker 1: to change the monarchy to help William, knowing that William

246
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,640
Speaker 1: would be next in line to the throne after Charles,

247
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:48,160
Speaker 1: and she wanted the monarchy to modernize a bit. Um.

248
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,120
Speaker 1: I would think regarding Harry and Megan, who are so

249
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,840
Speaker 1: controversial right now, and this is only a personal guess

250
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,400
Speaker 1: after having listened to the tapes and gone through so

251
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,920
Speaker 1: much foot I mean hundreds of hours of footage and

252
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,000
Speaker 1: thousands of skills to put this story together, I would

253
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:11,720
Speaker 1: think she'd be happy for them, if they're happy, I

254
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,480
Speaker 1: would think she would say, if this is what you

255
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:19,240
Speaker 1: want to do, you know, it's not exactly how things

256
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,000
Speaker 1: are done in the royal family, but if you're happy,

257
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,600
Speaker 1: then go for it. That and that is my opinion,

258
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,560
Speaker 1: I'm basically I mean, but it's somebody that has had

259
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,480
Speaker 1: the access that you've had, You certainly now are entitled

260
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,200
Speaker 1: to your opinion about this. So this is a cheeky question,

261
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,800
Speaker 1: but after this extraordinary film, do you retire? Tom? Can

262
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 1: you top it? Who are you going to do next?

263
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,760
Speaker 1: While we're doing other things for National Geographic I have

264
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,800
Speaker 1: not been announced yet, however, I will say that we're

265
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:56,440
Speaker 1: I've been talking with Andrew Morton and there's a fascinating

266
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,240
Speaker 1: story that is yet to be told about this. And

267
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,360
Speaker 1: it's not to go back to the same well twice,

268
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:09,280
Speaker 1: but year that Diana Andrew Morton, Diana's friend and Morton's

269
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,639
Speaker 1: publisher kind of conspired to make this book happen to

270
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,719
Speaker 1: do the recordings to get the tapes to Andrew Morton.

271
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,640
Speaker 1: Andrew Morton's office, for example, was broken into and ransacked.

272
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:27,560
Speaker 1: James Coulthurst on his bicycle was moments after leaving Kensington

273
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,879
Speaker 1: Palace after one of these recording sessions, was run off

274
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 1: the road by a mystery vehicle that sped away where

275
00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,840
Speaker 1: the book was secretly printed the first run to keep

276
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,119
Speaker 1: it quiet in Sweden, and someone showed up at the

277
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:49,439
Speaker 1: printer pretending to be Morton's publisher to basically stop the

278
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,760
Speaker 1: presses because they needed to get a They needed to

279
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,760
Speaker 1: get a look at the transcript or the galleys of

280
00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,360
Speaker 1: the book. So there's this year of intrigue that I

281
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,879
Speaker 1: find fascinating. It's a smaller part of the story, but

282
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,960
Speaker 1: it's certainly one that I'd love to tell. And I think, yeah,

283
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:16,120
Speaker 1: don't forget. Next year is the anniversary of Diana's passing,

284
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,880
Speaker 1: and it's also the thirtieth anniversary of Andrew Morton's book

285
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,040
Speaker 1: coming out, so I think there's going to be renewed

286
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:28,360
Speaker 1: interest in Princess Diana. Again. She never really goes away,

287
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,359
Speaker 1: does she? In a wonderful way. I really appreciate this.

288
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,199
Speaker 1: She's almost like an old friend. When I heard her voice,

289
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,640
Speaker 1: it brought me back to feelings and nice, nice kind feelings.

290
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,239
Speaker 1: What do you think ultimately her legacy is, well, I

291
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,080
Speaker 1: think it's still evolving. You know, there for so long

292
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 1: she was viewed by some as the tragic victim and

293
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,360
Speaker 1: by others how that she was manipulative. I'm sure you've

294
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,760
Speaker 1: heard that before. Um, you took about it in the film.

295
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 1: You actually have. A reporter asked her that question in

296
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 1: the film and her response is extraordinary. Yes, yes, she

297
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 1: you know, she just she was trying to do some

298
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 1: good in the world after the marriage ended, and I

299
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 1: believe that to be true. I think she saw herself

300
00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,720
Speaker 1: as someone that could get things done because of her

301
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:27,359
Speaker 1: prominence in the world, and she wanted to pick and

302
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,120
Speaker 1: choose things that she believed in to try and make

303
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:35,480
Speaker 1: a difference. I think years from now we'll look back

304
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:40,280
Speaker 1: at her, as I know I will, as probably someone

305
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 1: who was greatly misunderstood, someone who was very very young

306
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,640
Speaker 1: when she was brought into the fold of teen still

307
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 1: a teenager, still a teenager. I mean, it's remarkable to

308
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 1: look at those early pictures of her. You forget people

309
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,800
Speaker 1: forget they think of Diana when she's dating Doughty Fai

310
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 1: and people forget what nineteen year old Diana was about.

311
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 1: And I think in the long run she will become

312
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:15,960
Speaker 1: more cherished than she is now, and uh will people

313
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 1: will look back at her as a tragic figure that

314
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,919
Speaker 1: died and left us much too early, and there will

315
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 1: always be a sense of wonder of what she would

316
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,680
Speaker 1: have become and what she would have done in this

317
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 1: world if she had lived. I think you are right, Tom.

318
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 1: Where do people find this film? Now? Where can they?

319
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,119
Speaker 1: Where can they watch it? Well? It's it went from

320
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: National Geographic to Netflix, as you know, and Netflix, god

321
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 1: bless them, paired it with season four of The Crown,

322
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,920
Speaker 1: which is about Diana, and it exploded, as you know,

323
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,880
Speaker 1: and it's now rotating off of Netflix and National gear

324
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 1: Graphic is it now a Disney company And it's already

325
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 1: on Disney Plus, so people who have Disney Plus can

326
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 1: watch it there. I'm going I think it's going to

327
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 1: live on there for a long time, and I'm sure

328
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 1: National Geographic will show it again at some point. It's

329
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: going to live for a very long time, Tom, because

330
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:23,199
Speaker 1: it is extraordinary. It really is Diana in her own words.

331
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 1: It's an intimate story told entirely through the princess's voice

332
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: through very very rare recordings, most of which have never

333
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 1: been broadcast before. Tom Jennings, thank you for joining us

334
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 1: on a very special edition of The Naughty But Nice Show.

335
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 1: We're a production of I Heart Radio. Don't forget to subscribe.

336
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 1: Leave a comment if you can. Tom. We have a

337
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 1: little bit of audience participation at the end of every show,

338
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna say, if you're going to be naughty,

339
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 1: you've got to be and we all say nice together. Tom,

340
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: got it, got it if you're guys. So it's so

341
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 1: the show, so silly. To have such a great, serious,

342
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: award winning filmmaker on this silly show still makes me smile.

343
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 1: But we'll play along. I have no problem at all.

344
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 1: I do not take myself to sion. I grew up

345
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 1: in Cleveland. I can't. If you're going to be naughty altogether, now,

346
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 1: you've got to be a nice, nice, take care of everybody.

347
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: Thanks time. It's not even nice with bro