WEBVTT - Unpacking the Trump Cult 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.480 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Boo k F Daily 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.439 with Me Your Girl, Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:26.279 Folks. Latest news on Donald Trump is that Tish James's 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.680 civil case, civil suit that she brought against him and 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:34.200 his sycophantic sons in New. 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:40.960 York City with regard to offering fraudulent inflated assets in 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:45.919 order to secure loans and do business well, a judge 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:52.239 found that, indeed, surprise surprise, the Trump organization and their 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:58.760 business entities operated fraudulently, lying and inflating as Tish James 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:04.440 had suggested, up to in some cases three billion dollars 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:10.760 of net worth that wasn't actually there. And so you know, 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:13.959 this case is going to go to trial, and I 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:18.360 think that currently there are sanctions that are being put 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:22.320 on the business operations that are in Donald Trump's name. 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:28.399 And I just, you know, folks, the fact that the 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:32.480 Republican front runner, and I know that this is said, 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.080 and I know that it's stated over and over again, 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.360 but it's just like, what the fuck is it going 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.679 to really seep in that the front runner for the 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:46.640 Republican Party has been found guilty of sexual assault, has 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:52.240 been found guilty of defamation, has been found guilty now 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:56.880 of fraud, has had his university shut down, is having 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:01.800 his organizations shut down because he is a lying, serial, 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:09.600 fucking criminal, on top of which he is facing four 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:15.760 indictments ninety one charges. And this is the stand by 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.880 their man candidate. What the fuck does that say about 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:28.040 you and your values and your morals? By contrast, the 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:31.200 only thing that the Republican Party has been able to 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:36.480 find over five years of investigation, mind you, because I 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:41.640 want folks to understand the timeline here. These investigations around 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.760 Donald Trump have been going on for roughly two years, 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:47.800 and this is the type of hot shit that it 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:52.959 is produced. In five years. What we have against Hunter Biden, 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.480 a man that has never run for political office, is 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:01.040 not elected by anyone, has been battled his own demons, 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:05.920 and just happens to bear the last name Biden, is 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.640 some lying on a form to get it done because 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:16.400 he had a drug addiction problem. That's it. And all 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:21.760 of their investigations right into Hillary Clinton, what did they 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:26.720 come up with, zero investigations for years into Joe Biden? 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:30.800 What did Republicans come up with zero two years worth 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:35.200 of investigations into Donald Trump, you got four indictments, ninety 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:44.040 one charges and counting. It's absolutely fucking batshit crazy. And 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:49.200 it is for that reason, dear friends, that I am 0:03:49.800 --> 0:04:00.640 chatting today with doctor Suzanne Lachman on her diagnoses, her 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:05.600 thoughts that she is shared in documentaries and in articles 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:12.000 on unpacking support for Donald Trump. The psychology behind the movement, 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:20.360 the socio psychological dynamics at play behind Trump's enduring popularity 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:25.680 is what doctor Lackman and I will discuss today. Now, 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:30.600 for me, this is different than the ways that cable 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.320 news roll up into these white ass towns and sit 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:39.960 down and want to understand why white rural Americans are 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:46.760 just so upset right and why they need to be coddled. No, no, 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:52.440 that's not this conversation. This conversation is essentially and I 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.359 am not a doctor, so I am at liberty to 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:56.960 say what it is that I think this is the 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.880 psychology of how with all the information in front of 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:07.599 that is factual, How with everything that we have known 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.920 and discovered and are continuing to find out about Donald 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:15.200 Trump and all of his criminal ass associates, whether you 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:22.279 are looking at Cassidy Hutchinson's new book Enough and more 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:27.960 of the crazies and Looney Tunes characters that were in 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.719 and out of the Oval Office doing their best to 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:34.360 undermine the Constitution. Who had the ear of the President 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:42.760 of the United States, who retired, General Mark Millie has 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:48.320 in an interview basically said, is unstable and incapable of 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:53.359 doing the job. How is it that you have tens 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:57.040 of millions of Americans that are willing to lay down 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.640 and die for this man that gave up liberty and 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.359 freedom because he told them to go take their country back. 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:15.560 So this conversation is to really unpack, essentially the inner 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:21.000 workings and inner doings and thinkings of a cult. What 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:26.479 would make people write in Jonestown and other places, line 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:33.600 up behind some leader and take their own lives, separate 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:39.000 themselves from their families, from everything that they know, to 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:46.359 follow a person. Because that's where we are, and the 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:51.960 mainstream media, corporate media continues to do America a disservice 0:06:53.600 --> 0:07:03.120 by showcasing and platforming this extraordinarily dangerous call leader. What 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:08.920 we need is disruption to the fantasy that Donald Trump 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:13.640 is created around himself and that this Republican Party has 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:20.520 created around white grievance. So coming up next, my conversation 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:27.800 with doctor Lockman. Folks, I am very happy to welcome 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.720 to OKF Daily for the very first time. Doctor Suzanne 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:36.800 Lachman a celebrated clinical psychologist and an unparalleled voice in 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.560 the realm of self esteem, relationships, and breakups, and is 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:45.000 one of the three most read writers at Psychology Today 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:52.200 and also has been featured in the critically acclaimed documentary 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:58.760 Unfit The Psychology of Donald Trump. Doctor Lockman, you know, 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.640 there's so much. There is so much that I want 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:07.480 to dig into with you, because I think that the moment, 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:10.760 the years that we've been living inside of for the 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:15.440 last seven years, since Donald Trump came down that escalator, 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:20.840 since our political norms were turned on their head, and 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:26.000 what many of us believed to be true about America, 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:31.480 about democracy have been the challenged is not even the 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:35.960 world have been pushed to their breaking point, and for 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:43.000 many of us, watching this country be degraded and contorted 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:48.560 into a shell of itself is traumatizing, right, And I 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.440 just think about you know, let's harken back to the 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:55.600 images on January sixth, twenty twenty one, of watching our 0:08:55.640 --> 0:09:00.280 Capitol building that did not even manage to get to 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:04.319 be put under siege in the Civil War, watch plumes 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.480 of smoke and people climb over buildings, and just the 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:12.640 visual of what we saw is trauma. So I just 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:16.200 want you to, you know, give us your thoughts on 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:24.520 where you see this moment as as psychologists looking at 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:29.800 what we've been facing and dealing with as a society 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.360 for almost a decade at this point. 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:38.680 Yes, lots of good points in there, lots of good questions, 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:45.880 so many tentacles. So I think given that it is 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:51.679 a given that trauma has infiltrated the lives of really 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:57.360 any sane person who pays attention to the political landscape 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:06.600 who noted the uh horrendous directions that our country has taken, 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:14.760 the division, and the hatred. So there are a number 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:17.360 One of the ways I think that it is helpful 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:22.880 to address trauma is to try to understand the people 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:26.320 who are causing it or the people who have gotten 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:31.320 swept up in it. So I've spent a good amount 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.800 of time trying to make sense of what I think 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:42.400 are a bunch of types of people that remain to 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:47.640 this day Trump supporters, despite all the evidence to the contrary, 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:54.280 want there. So I think there's some character traits and 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.360 I don't think anyone would disagree. That's pretty obvious. But 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:02.800 but they so one of them. The first one is 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:08.640 in many you can tell that there is a profound 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:20.200 difficulty admitting that they're wrong apologizing there is there are 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.800 a lot of people out there who see admitting they're 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:28.680 wrong or apologizing as a form of weakness, right, and 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:33.880 of reflecting not just the event, but their entire character. 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.920 So to admit they're wrong, to say they're sorry, means 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:40.559 that they're weak. 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:47.280 So I'm we're just just you know, as I'm thinking 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.839 about that, right, because obviously the first person that comes 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:54.600 to mind is Donald Trump, right, his inability to be 0:11:54.679 --> 0:12:00.120 able to acknowledge wrongdoing at all, which, frankly, as a 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:05.040 elected official, you want the characteristic to be able to 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.880 own up to your mistakes. Right. When you think about 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:15.000 what the president signified prior to Donald Trump was in 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:19.920 many ways a moral leader as well, right, not just 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:25.559 a not ideally not just a political leader, but a 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:31.439 moral leader, somebody that can provide example, right of compromise, 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:33.760 of diplomacy, of all of these things. And so when 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:39.040 you see these characteristics, is it that because they have 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:43.800 been modeled Doctor Lackman for so many years in such 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:50.040 a bad way that people then have have begun to 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:54.480 mimic or was this latent? Was it always there? 0:12:55.760 --> 0:13:02.440 There are when oftentimes when traumatize, it's because aspects of 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:10.440 earlier unresolved trauma is brought up again. And there are 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.400 many people through time, if you think back about it, 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:18.520 who should have apologized, who should have acknowledged they were 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:24.920 wrong about something and just didn't and remained righteous and 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:30.080 to the end whatever that was. So I really think 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:35.760 it's an embedded characteristic in a lot of people. Does it. 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:41.319 Is it nature and nurture? Probably that would probably take 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:45.040 way too much time for us to parse out right, 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:50.600 But you kind of you're helping me springboard into another area, 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:58.839 which is Donald Trump appeals to people who have no 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:07.520 impulse control or who are barely able to maintain their impulses. 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:14.839 Now he is idealized, idolized, deified, et cetera, because he's 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:20.280 been walking around exercising his impulses everywhere and not getting 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:24.920 There's been no ramifications for his actions, nothing has caught 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:31.320 up to him. Whereas the common everyday person, they have 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:36.560 to if they did any of the things grab somebody 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:40.520 by the pussy, or any of the things that we 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:44.360 know Trump has done, they get in trouble for it. Right, 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:51.280 So here's this guy who's able to do all of 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:53.520 these things that they are not able to do, that 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:58.640 they're barely containing themselves from doing. So they get to 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:06.000 live vicariously through him in a way, and it makes 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:10.320 him rise above. There's no consequences, or there have been 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:14.080 no consequences, and he's continuing to find ways to make 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.440 it appear to those people who are very willing to 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.840 believe because they don't want to be wrong or they 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:22.600 don't know how to be wrong. I mean, there's so 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.360 many people in Congress that applies to you know, Matt 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:30.280 Gates comes willing to as somebody who, in your wildest 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:35.400 dreams would never admit he was wrong, even Kevin McCarthy. 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:40.760 They'll just talk over themselves instead. Uh yeah, And it's maddening. 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:48.120 So there's these these two subgroups that are intertwined as well, 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.600 but we can also sort of see them differently. Then 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:58.960 there are people who have a much higher threshold for 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:08.800 a use of talk, for being insulted, for dishing out insult, 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:18.520 for being bullies, for calling somebody crooked whatever, or name 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:23.880 call the kind of name calling, that kind of childish 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:28.720 It comes along with impulsivity way that we've seen him 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:32.880 conduct himself to them, that's sort of like, oh, that's 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:37.640 familiar to me. There's something comforting about that he's normalizing 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:44.720 what I didn't always I thought was bad or people 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:48.880 told me was bad. But look at this, I can 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:50.640 get on board with this. 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:55.640 This is how I talk. The way that I have 0:16:56.160 --> 0:17:00.560 talked about it on this show and others is almost 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:08.280 this perpetual adolescence where Donald Trump right and his followers 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:13.840 have never had to grow up. Right, It is they've 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.240 never had to grow up because they've never had to tap. 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:23.040 Because part of adulthood is taking responsibility, right, and when 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:27.520 you have never been forced to take responsibility for any 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:32.440 of your actions, or or you're not able, so tell 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.040 me the difference. Tell me, tell me the difference of 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.080 not being able to take responsibility for your actions and 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.280 choosing not to take responsibility for your actions. 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:50.160 Good question. People who are choosing not to take responsibility 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:55.159 of their actions are aware that they're on a sinking shift. 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.320 I mean, if we if we make it specific to Trump, 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.600 but at this point they don't think that there's any 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:09.159 other recourse they may. I think Kevin McCarthy is a 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:12.399 good example of this, because I think that he knows 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.359 that he's this is a clusterfuck that he's gotten himself into, 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.720 But will he ever admit it. No, So do I 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.720 think there are I think there are people out there. 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:33.800 Who follow Trump who are aware that in order to 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.800 continue to follow him, they have to shirk their responsibilities. 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.840 They have to decide that they're not going to be 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.920 accountable to anyone, They're going to put themselves first. 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:54.040 And there are others who intellectually may not or definitely 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:59.520 don't have the capacity to even understand that they haven't 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:04.239 grown up, whether it be. We see a lot of 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:10.240 people like that that still go to the rallies. There 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:13.320 they have no clue what's going on in the world, 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:19.439 they have no answers to questions, yet there they follow Trump. 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:23.920 It's an and you know, probably I would imagine a 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:25.600 lot of them have been in trouble with the law 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:31.040 at some point, or barely escaped being in trouble with 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:36.600 the law, or perpetually on the edge. So I don't 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.480 know if I'm answering your question, but I do think 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.679 there are people out there that kind of consciously know 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.720 that no matter who's following him, you have to be 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:53.560 shirking your responsibilities. You cannot be a conscious person with 0:19:53.560 --> 0:20:02.120 with a with a moral and ethical middle uh or 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:10.440 time out, it's a better word for that, like internal compass, 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:18.360 with uh a moral compass. Who wouldn't recognize that there's 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:19.760 something seriously wrong here? 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.440 So now what is that? What does that say? Though? Then? 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:27.240 Because we're looking right when we're when we're thinking about 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:34.000 this because I've I I've interviewed experts on cults right 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:39.119 as as also a way to understand, uh, this moment 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:44.639 that we're in, this this this this rapture that we 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:47.840 that we find ourselves in with Donald Trump, where these 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:51.800 people are so enamored that they will give up their 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:56.040 own sense of right and wrong, law quote unquote and 0:20:56.320 --> 0:21:01.560 order are moral compass, right value in order to follow 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:07.679 this character? And I I it's but it's it's thirty 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:12.879 percent of the population, doctor Lackman. So I'm like, it 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:17.919 is there are we all just banging our heads against 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:24.320 the wall then trying to have this thirty percent try 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:25.840 and wake up to reality? 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:26.000 What? 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:29.719 Yes, yeah, go ahead. 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:34.960 We there. I mean I often think about the Titanic 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:40.360 when it comes to Trump, and there were people who jumped, 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:45.760 and I'd say anyone who maybe voted for him first 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:48.400 term but has turned against him. And there are certainly 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:54.400 many Republican groups that are anti Trump. They jumped, and 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.920 others who are just gonna go down with the ship. 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:01.479 They know it's heading for the iceberg, but they're just 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:05.320 gonna that's that's what they'll do. They don't really know 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:11.399 any other way, And because to hint to them, to 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:14.560 many of them, he's he's magical and he's managed to 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:19.480 get out of circumstances so often himself. I mean, think 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:23.520 about how many people went into the Capitol with the 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:33.600 promise that they would be pardoned right that and especially 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:38.359 if he if he is still the president and or 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:42.879 becomes the president or somehow is both. There's also many 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:47.520 many mentally ill people in that contingent, in that thirty percent. 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:51.240 Not to say that there there aren't mentally ill people 0:22:51.880 --> 0:23:00.399 in the other seventy, but there's less When with with 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:05.480 with COVID, it certainly heightened and kind of pressurized a 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:10.880 lot of mental illness that may have been more latent exactly, 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:18.240 and venom and hatred and all these other emotions, and 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:21.680 since a good portion of those groups that we're describing 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:25.800 don't have impulse control. I mean, even if we think 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:31.040 about how many Republicans in particular are are found to 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:38.679 be pedophiles, are it's it's it's insane, the lack of 0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:43.600 impulse control, and it's it's it's really that that kind 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:49.119 of in many ways separates them from the rest of us. Uh, 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.760 even if they know they're not controlling their impulses. Again, 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:54.920 he's giving them an excuse. 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:57.440 Right, He's giving he's giving them carte blanche. 0:23:57.720 --> 0:24:02.600 You know, he's normalizing it, right, Uh right, Yeah, So 0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:09.440 that that's those are big issues among Trump supporters. And 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:13.000 and this other one that I'm describing to just threshold 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:19.119 for abuse, the way he speaks to other people, the 0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:25.600 way that uh, he speaks down to women, objectifies them. 0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:30.400 There's a Trump there's a lot of people out there 0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:33.440 like that, and unfortunately a lot of women who are 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:34.920 used to being treated that way. 0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:38.919 I mean, there were there were women that wore t 0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:43.600 shirts to his rally that said you can grab me anytime, 0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:49.440 like it, and and and watching that and saying what 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:54.040 right when you see the fan art of Donald Trump, 0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:57.600 their image of him is is is that of of 0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:03.000 of you know, eighties Rock Belboa, Right, They draw him 0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:06.240 and they paint him as this muscular figure and I'm 0:25:06.320 --> 0:25:10.920 just like, what are you actually looking at? Because it's 0:25:10.960 --> 0:25:19.480 so distorted from reality. And I you know, I understand. 0:25:19.720 --> 0:25:25.760 I guess that it is important to understand the psychology 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:30.320 of the people that follow Trump, Yes, but I also 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:32.280 find myself and with a couple of minutes that we 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:34.440 have left, I want you to be able to weigh 0:25:34.480 --> 0:25:38.439 in on the trauma that is being inflicted on the 0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:47.199 rest of us and how we are to manage and 0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:51.040 move and move through that, because again, I don't think 0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:55.199 that we have paused long enough to reflect on the 0:25:55.320 --> 0:26:02.240 damage that has been done emotionally, spiritually, basically over the 0:26:02.320 --> 0:26:03.320 last seven years. 0:26:06.080 --> 0:26:09.160 The same can be said for the Holocaust, the same 0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:17.040 can be said for slavery. When you're in something, you're 0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:20.159 just in it. There's really no way or no time 0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:25.400 to no ability to reflect while you're in it. What 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:28.399 we're looking for is a way out of it. And 0:26:29.520 --> 0:26:34.360 I mean, at the if it's thirty percent, so be it. 0:26:34.359 --> 0:26:35.160 It's not fifty. 0:26:38.280 --> 0:26:42.000 You said that it's really difficult for people to reflect 0:26:42.040 --> 0:26:47.280 on what they're currently in, right, And yet I think 0:26:47.320 --> 0:26:51.040 that in order to manage our way through this, we 0:26:51.280 --> 0:26:55.080 have to both be actively looking for the exit while 0:26:55.160 --> 0:27:00.679 trying to you know, deal with the trial and the 0:27:00.760 --> 0:27:03.440 wounds so that we can have the strength to make 0:27:03.480 --> 0:27:04.360 it to the exit. 0:27:04.800 --> 0:27:05.640 Yeah, do you know? 0:27:05.840 --> 0:27:05.959 So? 0:27:06.119 --> 0:27:09.960 I'm like, so, how how are we How how do 0:27:10.080 --> 0:27:11.440 we manage to do both? 0:27:11.480 --> 0:27:21.679 And podcasts, social media? For as much as of the 0:27:21.720 --> 0:27:26.920 craziness that's out there, Uh, it's pretty easy. And if 0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:30.600 you some of the news stations and other places as well, 0:27:30.640 --> 0:27:34.760 there's a lot of validation for the fact that this 0:27:34.960 --> 0:27:38.680 is a crazy time and everything about this Trump eerr 0:27:39.160 --> 0:27:39.600 is wrong. 0:27:41.080 --> 0:27:41.199 Uh. 0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:45.600 And and really all you I know that that's significantly 0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:48.159 harder in Red States. I know what I was going 0:27:48.240 --> 0:27:50.879 to say. I was going to say that just like 0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:55.800 little kids when they get really crazy and destructive, it's 0:27:55.880 --> 0:28:01.560 like it's like they're crying out for someone to contain them. 0:28:01.680 --> 0:28:06.920 That's what is happening right now. That's what the Republicans 0:28:07.119 --> 0:28:15.560 are doing with the book banning and the not not 0:28:16.240 --> 0:28:24.600 chastising people who are neo Nazi and racially motivated and 0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:31.120 all of that. They are literally crying out. Whether they 0:28:31.160 --> 0:28:33.600 know it or not, they are crying out because they 0:28:33.600 --> 0:28:41.040 cannot handle the control that they have. Wow, that's why 0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:46.719 it's so crazy out there, and we as sane adults, 0:28:47.080 --> 0:28:49.800 are going there's nothing that's going to stop us from 0:28:49.800 --> 0:28:55.200 getting to the polls. And thankfully, I think because of 0:28:56.240 --> 0:28:59.600 the extent to the lengths the Republicans have gone to 0:28:59.800 --> 0:29:04.160 with with taking away women's rights and messing with civil 0:29:04.240 --> 0:29:07.520 rights and education, et cetera, it's going to get a 0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:10.440 lot of other people out there too who might not 0:29:10.520 --> 0:29:17.120 have otherwise been involved because this touches losing Roe v. Wade, 0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:23.040 as evidenced by some of the other some of the 0:29:23.080 --> 0:29:26.760 elections that we've seen that are there any indication of 0:29:26.760 --> 0:29:33.280 what's to come, Even in the most conservative states, it's 0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:39.480 they're they're a cruising for us to take over and 0:29:39.760 --> 0:29:43.240 we will, we will, that's our job. 0:29:43.680 --> 0:29:46.600 Well, let's let's hope that is the case, because I 0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:53.920 will say, you know that the word unprecedented is so overused, 0:29:55.680 --> 0:30:00.120 and the word consequential is so overused. But the the 0:30:00.120 --> 0:30:04.600 fact is that we have been an are at our 0:30:04.680 --> 0:30:07.760 break at our breaking point, and I think that the 0:30:07.800 --> 0:30:13.320 next you know, twelve months, you know, or so are 0:30:13.360 --> 0:30:21.000 really going to be a pressure cooker whether America survives 0:30:21.120 --> 0:30:22.600 And I don't even you know, And I guess the 0:30:22.680 --> 0:30:25.239 last question for you, I'll say, I'll ask is this is, 0:30:26.840 --> 0:30:33.000 even if democracy comes out the other side of this, 0:30:35.920 --> 0:30:40.600 does America, how we've understood it, come out the other 0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:47.280 side of this? Or are we in a I don't know, 0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:53.400 a burned down moment, phoenix rising moment regardless, because so 0:30:53.640 --> 0:30:55.440 much has been torched. 0:30:58.520 --> 0:31:01.040 It's safe to say that that's been the case through 0:31:01.080 --> 0:31:04.800 the years, whether it was a fake war in Iraq 0:31:05.600 --> 0:31:09.720 after nine to eleven, we can go way back with 0:31:09.800 --> 0:31:16.600 our history. This is not history repeats itself, and democracy 0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:21.040 is a journey. It's not a destination, and it's got 0:31:21.040 --> 0:31:26.320 to change and it's got a shape shift to incorporate 0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:29.640 the people who are in it. The founding fathers really 0:31:29.680 --> 0:31:36.600 did not have an appreciation for the level of differences 0:31:37.520 --> 0:31:42.480 amongst people and what it would mean to incorporate all 0:31:42.600 --> 0:31:47.320 as equal. And so hopefully there are more and more 0:31:47.360 --> 0:31:50.479 amendments that are past. But what we are seeing is 0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:55.720 that there is legal recourse and so this kind of 0:31:55.760 --> 0:31:58.880 anger that you're describing, or people being at their wits 0:31:59.040 --> 0:32:02.560 end it's there's two types of anger, in my opinion. 0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:07.480 There's the blamey kind, which you can only get stuck in, like, oh, 0:32:07.520 --> 0:32:11.440 I can't believe you know that, I can't believe that 0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:13.800 all these people are still into him, like you know, 0:32:14.120 --> 0:32:16.960 the stuff that you can't do anything about. And then 0:32:17.000 --> 0:32:19.720 there's the I am so sick of being sick of 0:32:19.760 --> 0:32:25.200 this that that I'm not going to crawl under a rock. 0:32:26.160 --> 0:32:29.360 I'm gonna vote, and I'm gonna get as many other 0:32:29.400 --> 0:32:32.280 people out there as I can to vote because the 0:32:32.360 --> 0:32:39.040 system has not failed us. There. We've called constitutional crises 0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:43.280 a couple of times, but here we are, and there's 0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:47.920 ninety one counts against him. Proud boys are being thrown 0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:51.600 in jail. The problem is the wheels of justice grind slowly, 0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:57.560 so it's a matter of being patient. But the more 0:32:57.600 --> 0:33:03.000 patient you are, the more relief you will find. It 0:33:03.280 --> 0:33:07.480 certainly will not detract from all the pain and suffering 0:33:08.360 --> 0:33:13.680 that people have gone through, but to feel be able 0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:17.840 to feel safer in our homes, in our neighborhoods, in 0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:24.600 our own skin, that's that's the goal. So yeah, that's 0:33:24.640 --> 0:33:28.240