1
00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,480
Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Boo k F Daily

2
00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,439
Speaker 1: with Me Your Girl, Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker.

3
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:26,279
Speaker 2: Folks. Latest news on Donald Trump is that Tish James's

4
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,680
Speaker 2: civil case, civil suit that she brought against him and

5
00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,200
Speaker 2: his sycophantic sons in New.

6
00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:40,960
Speaker 1: York City with regard to offering fraudulent inflated assets in

7
00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:45,919
Speaker 1: order to secure loans and do business well, a judge

8
00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:52,239
Speaker 1: found that, indeed, surprise surprise, the Trump organization and their

9
00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:58,760
Speaker 1: business entities operated fraudulently, lying and inflating as Tish James

10
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:04,440
Speaker 1: had suggested, up to in some cases three billion dollars

11
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:10,760
Speaker 1: of net worth that wasn't actually there. And so you know,

12
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,959
Speaker 1: this case is going to go to trial, and I

13
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,360
Speaker 1: think that currently there are sanctions that are being put

14
00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,320
Speaker 1: on the business operations that are in Donald Trump's name.

15
00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:28,399
Speaker 1: And I just, you know, folks, the fact that the

16
00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,480
Speaker 1: Republican front runner, and I know that this is said,

17
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,080
Speaker 1: and I know that it's stated over and over again,

18
00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,360
Speaker 1: but it's just like, what the fuck is it going

19
00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,679
Speaker 1: to really seep in that the front runner for the

20
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:46,640
Speaker 1: Republican Party has been found guilty of sexual assault, has

21
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:52,240
Speaker 1: been found guilty of defamation, has been found guilty now

22
00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 1: of fraud, has had his university shut down, is having

23
00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,800
Speaker 1: his organizations shut down because he is a lying, serial,

24
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:09,600
Speaker 1: fucking criminal, on top of which he is facing four

25
00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:15,760
Speaker 1: indictments ninety one charges. And this is the stand by

26
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 1: their man candidate. What the fuck does that say about

27
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:28,040
Speaker 1: you and your values and your morals? By contrast, the

28
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,200
Speaker 1: only thing that the Republican Party has been able to

29
00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:36,480
Speaker 1: find over five years of investigation, mind you, because I

30
00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:41,640
Speaker 1: want folks to understand the timeline here. These investigations around

31
00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,760
Speaker 1: Donald Trump have been going on for roughly two years,

32
00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,800
Speaker 1: and this is the type of hot shit that it

33
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:52,959
Speaker 1: is produced. In five years. What we have against Hunter Biden,

34
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,480
Speaker 1: a man that has never run for political office, is

35
00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:01,040
Speaker 1: not elected by anyone, has been battled his own demons,

36
00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,920
Speaker 1: and just happens to bear the last name Biden, is

37
00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,640
Speaker 1: some lying on a form to get it done because

38
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:16,400
Speaker 1: he had a drug addiction problem. That's it. And all

39
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:21,760
Speaker 1: of their investigations right into Hillary Clinton, what did they

40
00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:26,720
Speaker 1: come up with, zero investigations for years into Joe Biden?

41
00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,800
Speaker 1: What did Republicans come up with zero two years worth

42
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:35,200
Speaker 1: of investigations into Donald Trump, you got four indictments, ninety

43
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:44,040
Speaker 1: one charges and counting. It's absolutely fucking batshit crazy. And

44
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:49,200
Speaker 1: it is for that reason, dear friends, that I am

45
00:03:49,800 --> 00:04:00,640
Speaker 1: chatting today with doctor Suzanne Lachman on her diagnoses, her

46
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,600
Speaker 1: thoughts that she is shared in documentaries and in articles

47
00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:12,000
Speaker 1: on unpacking support for Donald Trump. The psychology behind the movement,

48
00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:20,360
Speaker 1: the socio psychological dynamics at play behind Trump's enduring popularity

49
00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:25,680
Speaker 1: is what doctor Lackman and I will discuss today. Now,

50
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:30,600
Speaker 1: for me, this is different than the ways that cable

51
00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,320
Speaker 1: news roll up into these white ass towns and sit

52
00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:39,960
Speaker 1: down and want to understand why white rural Americans are

53
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:46,760
Speaker 1: just so upset right and why they need to be coddled. No, no,

54
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:52,440
Speaker 1: that's not this conversation. This conversation is essentially and I

55
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,359
Speaker 1: am not a doctor, so I am at liberty to

56
00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,960
Speaker 1: say what it is that I think this is the

57
00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,880
Speaker 1: psychology of how with all the information in front of

58
00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:07,599
Speaker 1: that is factual, How with everything that we have known

59
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,920
Speaker 1: and discovered and are continuing to find out about Donald

60
00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,200
Speaker 1: Trump and all of his criminal ass associates, whether you

61
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:22,279
Speaker 1: are looking at Cassidy Hutchinson's new book Enough and more

62
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,960
Speaker 1: of the crazies and Looney Tunes characters that were in

63
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,719
Speaker 1: and out of the Oval Office doing their best to

64
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,360
Speaker 1: undermine the Constitution. Who had the ear of the President

65
00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:42,760
Speaker 1: of the United States, who retired, General Mark Millie has

66
00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:48,320
Speaker 1: in an interview basically said, is unstable and incapable of

67
00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,359
Speaker 1: doing the job. How is it that you have tens

68
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,040
Speaker 1: of millions of Americans that are willing to lay down

69
00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,640
Speaker 1: and die for this man that gave up liberty and

70
00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,359
Speaker 1: freedom because he told them to go take their country back.

71
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:15,560
Speaker 1: So this conversation is to really unpack, essentially the inner

72
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:21,000
Speaker 1: workings and inner doings and thinkings of a cult. What

73
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:26,479
Speaker 1: would make people write in Jonestown and other places, line

74
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:33,600
Speaker 1: up behind some leader and take their own lives, separate

75
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:39,000
Speaker 1: themselves from their families, from everything that they know, to

76
00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:46,359
Speaker 1: follow a person. Because that's where we are, and the

77
00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:51,960
Speaker 1: mainstream media, corporate media continues to do America a disservice

78
00:06:53,600 --> 00:07:03,120
Speaker 1: by showcasing and platforming this extraordinarily dangerous call leader. What

79
00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:08,920
Speaker 1: we need is disruption to the fantasy that Donald Trump

80
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 1: is created around himself and that this Republican Party has

81
00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:20,520
Speaker 1: created around white grievance. So coming up next, my conversation

82
00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:27,800
Speaker 1: with doctor Lockman. Folks, I am very happy to welcome

83
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,720
Speaker 1: to OKF Daily for the very first time. Doctor Suzanne

84
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,800
Speaker 1: Lachman a celebrated clinical psychologist and an unparalleled voice in

85
00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,560
Speaker 1: the realm of self esteem, relationships, and breakups, and is

86
00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:45,000
Speaker 1: one of the three most read writers at Psychology Today

87
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:52,200
Speaker 1: and also has been featured in the critically acclaimed documentary

88
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:58,760
Speaker 1: Unfit The Psychology of Donald Trump. Doctor Lockman, you know,

89
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,640
Speaker 1: there's so much. There is so much that I want

90
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 1: to dig into with you, because I think that the moment,

91
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,760
Speaker 1: the years that we've been living inside of for the

92
00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:15,440
Speaker 1: last seven years, since Donald Trump came down that escalator,

93
00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:20,840
Speaker 1: since our political norms were turned on their head, and

94
00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:26,000
Speaker 1: what many of us believed to be true about America,

95
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:31,480
Speaker 1: about democracy have been the challenged is not even the

96
00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,960
Speaker 1: world have been pushed to their breaking point, and for

97
00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:43,000
Speaker 1: many of us, watching this country be degraded and contorted

98
00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:48,560
Speaker 1: into a shell of itself is traumatizing, right, And I

99
00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,440
Speaker 1: just think about you know, let's harken back to the

100
00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,600
Speaker 1: images on January sixth, twenty twenty one, of watching our

101
00:08:55,640 --> 00:09:00,280
Speaker 1: Capitol building that did not even manage to get to

102
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,319
Speaker 1: be put under siege in the Civil War, watch plumes

103
00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,480
Speaker 1: of smoke and people climb over buildings, and just the

104
00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:12,640
Speaker 1: visual of what we saw is trauma. So I just

105
00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,200
Speaker 1: want you to, you know, give us your thoughts on

106
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:24,520
Speaker 1: where you see this moment as as psychologists looking at

107
00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:29,800
Speaker 1: what we've been facing and dealing with as a society

108
00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,360
Speaker 1: for almost a decade at this point.

109
00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:38,680
Speaker 3: Yes, lots of good points in there, lots of good questions,

110
00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:45,880
Speaker 3: so many tentacles. So I think given that it is

111
00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:51,679
Speaker 3: a given that trauma has infiltrated the lives of really

112
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:57,360
Speaker 3: any sane person who pays attention to the political landscape

113
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:06,600
Speaker 3: who noted the uh horrendous directions that our country has taken,

114
00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:14,760
Speaker 3: the division, and the hatred. So there are a number

115
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,360
Speaker 3: One of the ways I think that it is helpful

116
00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:22,880
Speaker 3: to address trauma is to try to understand the people

117
00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,320
Speaker 3: who are causing it or the people who have gotten

118
00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:31,320
Speaker 3: swept up in it. So I've spent a good amount

119
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,800
Speaker 3: of time trying to make sense of what I think

120
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:42,400
Speaker 3: are a bunch of types of people that remain to

121
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:47,640
Speaker 3: this day Trump supporters, despite all the evidence to the contrary,

122
00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,280
Speaker 3: want there. So I think there's some character traits and

123
00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,360
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone would disagree. That's pretty obvious. But

124
00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,800
Speaker 3: but they so one of them. The first one is

125
00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:08,640
Speaker 3: in many you can tell that there is a profound

126
00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:20,200
Speaker 3: difficulty admitting that they're wrong apologizing there is there are

127
00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,800
Speaker 3: a lot of people out there who see admitting they're

128
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:28,680
Speaker 3: wrong or apologizing as a form of weakness, right, and

129
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,880
Speaker 3: of reflecting not just the event, but their entire character.

130
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,920
Speaker 3: So to admit they're wrong, to say they're sorry, means

131
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:40,559
Speaker 3: that they're weak.

132
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,280
Speaker 1: So I'm we're just just you know, as I'm thinking

133
00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,839
Speaker 1: about that, right, because obviously the first person that comes

134
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,600
Speaker 1: to mind is Donald Trump, right, his inability to be

135
00:11:54,679 --> 00:12:00,120
Speaker 1: able to acknowledge wrongdoing at all, which, frankly, as a

136
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:05,040
Speaker 1: elected official, you want the characteristic to be able to

137
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,880
Speaker 1: own up to your mistakes. Right. When you think about

138
00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:15,000
Speaker 1: what the president signified prior to Donald Trump was in

139
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,920
Speaker 1: many ways a moral leader as well, right, not just

140
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:25,559
Speaker 1: a not ideally not just a political leader, but a

141
00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:31,439
Speaker 1: moral leader, somebody that can provide example, right of compromise,

142
00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,760
Speaker 1: of diplomacy, of all of these things. And so when

143
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:39,040
Speaker 1: you see these characteristics, is it that because they have

144
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,800
Speaker 1: been modeled Doctor Lackman for so many years in such

145
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:50,040
Speaker 1: a bad way that people then have have begun to

146
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,480
Speaker 1: mimic or was this latent? Was it always there?

147
00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:02,440
Speaker 3: There are when oftentimes when traumatize, it's because aspects of

148
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:10,440
Speaker 3: earlier unresolved trauma is brought up again. And there are

149
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,400
Speaker 3: many people through time, if you think back about it,

150
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,520
Speaker 3: who should have apologized, who should have acknowledged they were

151
00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:24,920
Speaker 3: wrong about something and just didn't and remained righteous and

152
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:30,080
Speaker 3: to the end whatever that was. So I really think

153
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:35,760
Speaker 3: it's an embedded characteristic in a lot of people. Does it.

154
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:41,319
Speaker 3: Is it nature and nurture? Probably that would probably take

155
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 3: way too much time for us to parse out right,

156
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:50,600
Speaker 3: But you kind of you're helping me springboard into another area,

157
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:58,839
Speaker 3: which is Donald Trump appeals to people who have no

158
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:07,520
Speaker 3: impulse control or who are barely able to maintain their impulses.

159
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:14,839
Speaker 3: Now he is idealized, idolized, deified, et cetera, because he's

160
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:20,280
Speaker 3: been walking around exercising his impulses everywhere and not getting

161
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,920
Speaker 3: There's been no ramifications for his actions, nothing has caught

162
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:31,320
Speaker 3: up to him. Whereas the common everyday person, they have

163
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:36,560
Speaker 3: to if they did any of the things grab somebody

164
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 3: by the pussy, or any of the things that we

165
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 3: know Trump has done, they get in trouble for it. Right,

166
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:51,280
Speaker 3: So here's this guy who's able to do all of

167
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,520
Speaker 3: these things that they are not able to do, that

168
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 3: they're barely containing themselves from doing. So they get to

169
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:06,000
Speaker 3: live vicariously through him in a way, and it makes

170
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,320
Speaker 3: him rise above. There's no consequences, or there have been

171
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,080
Speaker 3: no consequences, and he's continuing to find ways to make

172
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,440
Speaker 3: it appear to those people who are very willing to

173
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,840
Speaker 3: believe because they don't want to be wrong or they

174
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:22,600
Speaker 3: don't know how to be wrong. I mean, there's so

175
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,360
Speaker 3: many people in Congress that applies to you know, Matt

176
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:30,280
Speaker 3: Gates comes willing to as somebody who, in your wildest

177
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:35,400
Speaker 3: dreams would never admit he was wrong, even Kevin McCarthy.

178
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 3: They'll just talk over themselves instead. Uh yeah, And it's maddening.

179
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:48,120
Speaker 3: So there's these these two subgroups that are intertwined as well,

180
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,600
Speaker 3: but we can also sort of see them differently. Then

181
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:58,960
Speaker 3: there are people who have a much higher threshold for

182
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:08,800
Speaker 3: a use of talk, for being insulted, for dishing out insult,

183
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:18,520
Speaker 3: for being bullies, for calling somebody crooked whatever, or name

184
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:23,880
Speaker 3: call the kind of name calling, that kind of childish

185
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:28,720
Speaker 3: It comes along with impulsivity way that we've seen him

186
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,880
Speaker 3: conduct himself to them, that's sort of like, oh, that's

187
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:37,640
Speaker 3: familiar to me. There's something comforting about that he's normalizing

188
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:44,720
Speaker 3: what I didn't always I thought was bad or people

189
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,880
Speaker 3: told me was bad. But look at this, I can

190
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:50,640
Speaker 3: get on board with this.

191
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:55,640
Speaker 1: This is how I talk. The way that I have

192
00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,560
Speaker 1: talked about it on this show and others is almost

193
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:08,280
Speaker 1: this perpetual adolescence where Donald Trump right and his followers

194
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,840
Speaker 1: have never had to grow up. Right, It is they've

195
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,240
Speaker 1: never had to grow up because they've never had to tap.

196
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 1: Because part of adulthood is taking responsibility, right, and when

197
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 1: you have never been forced to take responsibility for any

198
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:32,440
Speaker 1: of your actions, or or you're not able, so tell

199
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 1: me the difference. Tell me, tell me the difference of

200
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,080
Speaker 1: not being able to take responsibility for your actions and

201
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,280
Speaker 1: choosing not to take responsibility for your actions.

202
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:50,160
Speaker 3: Good question. People who are choosing not to take responsibility

203
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:55,159
Speaker 3: of their actions are aware that they're on a sinking shift.

204
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,320
Speaker 3: I mean, if we if we make it specific to Trump,

205
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,600
Speaker 3: but at this point they don't think that there's any

206
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:09,159
Speaker 3: other recourse they may. I think Kevin McCarthy is a

207
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,399
Speaker 3: good example of this, because I think that he knows

208
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,359
Speaker 3: that he's this is a clusterfuck that he's gotten himself into,

209
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,720
Speaker 3: But will he ever admit it. No, So do I

210
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,720
Speaker 3: think there are I think there are people out there.

211
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:33,800
Speaker 4: Who follow Trump who are aware that in order to

212
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,800
Speaker 4: continue to follow him, they have to shirk their responsibilities.

213
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,840
Speaker 4: They have to decide that they're not going to be

214
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,920
Speaker 4: accountable to anyone, They're going to put themselves first.

215
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:54,040
Speaker 3: And there are others who intellectually may not or definitely

216
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 3: don't have the capacity to even understand that they haven't

217
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,239
Speaker 3: grown up, whether it be. We see a lot of

218
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 3: people like that that still go to the rallies. There

219
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 3: they have no clue what's going on in the world,

220
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:19,439
Speaker 3: they have no answers to questions, yet there they follow Trump.

221
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 3: It's an and you know, probably I would imagine a

222
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,600
Speaker 3: lot of them have been in trouble with the law

223
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 3: at some point, or barely escaped being in trouble with

224
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 3: the law, or perpetually on the edge. So I don't

225
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 3: know if I'm answering your question, but I do think

226
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,679
Speaker 3: there are people out there that kind of consciously know

227
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 3: that no matter who's following him, you have to be

228
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 3: shirking your responsibilities. You cannot be a conscious person with

229
00:19:53,560 --> 00:20:02,120
Speaker 3: with a with a moral and ethical middle uh or

230
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 3: time out, it's a better word for that, like internal compass,

231
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:18,360
Speaker 3: with uh a moral compass. Who wouldn't recognize that there's

232
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 3: something seriously wrong here?

233
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,440
Speaker 1: So now what is that? What does that say? Though? Then?

234
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 1: Because we're looking right when we're when we're thinking about

235
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 1: this because I've I I've interviewed experts on cults right

236
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,119
Speaker 1: as as also a way to understand, uh, this moment

237
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 1: that we're in, this this this this rapture that we

238
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 1: that we find ourselves in with Donald Trump, where these

239
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: people are so enamored that they will give up their

240
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 1: own sense of right and wrong, law quote unquote and

241
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: order are moral compass, right value in order to follow

242
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,679
Speaker 1: this character? And I I it's but it's it's thirty

243
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 1: percent of the population, doctor Lackman. So I'm like, it

244
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,919
Speaker 1: is there are we all just banging our heads against

245
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 1: the wall then trying to have this thirty percent try

246
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: and wake up to reality?

247
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 3: What?

248
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,719
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, go ahead.

249
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 3: We there. I mean I often think about the Titanic

250
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,360
Speaker 3: when it comes to Trump, and there were people who jumped,

251
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 3: and I'd say anyone who maybe voted for him first

252
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,400
Speaker 3: term but has turned against him. And there are certainly

253
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 3: many Republican groups that are anti Trump. They jumped, and

254
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 3: others who are just gonna go down with the ship.

255
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,479
Speaker 3: They know it's heading for the iceberg, but they're just

256
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 3: gonna that's that's what they'll do. They don't really know

257
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 3: any other way, And because to hint to them, to

258
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 3: many of them, he's he's magical and he's managed to

259
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 3: get out of circumstances so often himself. I mean, think

260
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 3: about how many people went into the Capitol with the

261
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 3: promise that they would be pardoned right that and especially

262
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 3: if he if he is still the president and or

263
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 3: becomes the president or somehow is both. There's also many

264
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 3: many mentally ill people in that contingent, in that thirty percent.

265
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 3: Not to say that there there aren't mentally ill people

266
00:22:51,880 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 3: in the other seventy, but there's less When with with

267
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 3: with COVID, it certainly heightened and kind of pressurized a

268
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:10,880
Speaker 3: lot of mental illness that may have been more latent exactly,

269
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 3: and venom and hatred and all these other emotions, and

270
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 3: since a good portion of those groups that we're describing

271
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 3: don't have impulse control. I mean, even if we think

272
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 3: about how many Republicans in particular are are found to

273
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 3: be pedophiles, are it's it's it's insane, the lack of

274
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 3: impulse control, and it's it's it's really that that kind

275
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 3: of in many ways separates them from the rest of us. Uh,

276
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 3: even if they know they're not controlling their impulses. Again,

277
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 3: he's giving them an excuse.

278
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 1: Right, He's giving he's giving them carte blanche.

279
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 3: You know, he's normalizing it, right, Uh right, Yeah, So

280
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 3: that that's those are big issues among Trump supporters. And

281
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 3: and this other one that I'm describing to just threshold

282
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 3: for abuse, the way he speaks to other people, the

283
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 3: way that uh, he speaks down to women, objectifies them.

284
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 3: There's a Trump there's a lot of people out there

285
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 3: like that, and unfortunately a lot of women who are

286
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 3: used to being treated that way.

287
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 1: I mean, there were there were women that wore t

288
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: shirts to his rally that said you can grab me anytime,

289
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 1: like it, and and and watching that and saying what

290
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: right when you see the fan art of Donald Trump,

291
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: their image of him is is is that of of

292
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: of you know, eighties Rock Belboa, Right, They draw him

293
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: and they paint him as this muscular figure and I'm

294
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: just like, what are you actually looking at? Because it's

295
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: so distorted from reality. And I you know, I understand.

296
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: I guess that it is important to understand the psychology

297
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: of the people that follow Trump, Yes, but I also

298
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: find myself and with a couple of minutes that we

299
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: have left, I want you to be able to weigh

300
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 1: in on the trauma that is being inflicted on the

301
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: rest of us and how we are to manage and

302
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: move and move through that, because again, I don't think

303
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 1: that we have paused long enough to reflect on the

304
00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: damage that has been done emotionally, spiritually, basically over the

305
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: last seven years.

306
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 3: The same can be said for the Holocaust, the same

307
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 3: can be said for slavery. When you're in something, you're

308
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 3: just in it. There's really no way or no time

309
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 3: to no ability to reflect while you're in it. What

310
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 3: we're looking for is a way out of it. And

311
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 3: I mean, at the if it's thirty percent, so be it.

312
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 3: It's not fifty.

313
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: You said that it's really difficult for people to reflect

314
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: on what they're currently in, right, And yet I think

315
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: that in order to manage our way through this, we

316
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: have to both be actively looking for the exit while

317
00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 1: trying to you know, deal with the trial and the

318
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: wounds so that we can have the strength to make

319
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 1: it to the exit.

320
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you know?

321
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 2: So?

322
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, so, how how are we How how do

323
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: we manage to do both?

324
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 3: And podcasts, social media? For as much as of the

325
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 3: craziness that's out there, Uh, it's pretty easy. And if

326
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 3: you some of the news stations and other places as well,

327
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 3: there's a lot of validation for the fact that this

328
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 3: is a crazy time and everything about this Trump eerr

329
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 3: is wrong.

330
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 2: Uh.

331
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 3: And and really all you I know that that's significantly

332
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 3: harder in Red States. I know what I was going

333
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 3: to say. I was going to say that just like

334
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 3: little kids when they get really crazy and destructive, it's

335
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 3: like it's like they're crying out for someone to contain them.

336
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 3: That's what is happening right now. That's what the Republicans

337
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 3: are doing with the book banning and the not not

338
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 3: chastising people who are neo Nazi and racially motivated and

339
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 3: all of that. They are literally crying out. Whether they

340
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 3: know it or not, they are crying out because they

341
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 3: cannot handle the control that they have. Wow, that's why

342
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:46,719
Speaker 3: it's so crazy out there, and we as sane adults,

343
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 3: are going there's nothing that's going to stop us from

344
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 3: getting to the polls. And thankfully, I think because of

345
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 3: the extent to the lengths the Republicans have gone to

346
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 3: with with taking away women's rights and messing with civil

347
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 3: rights and education, et cetera, it's going to get a

348
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 3: lot of other people out there too who might not

349
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 3: have otherwise been involved because this touches losing Roe v. Wade,

350
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 3: as evidenced by some of the other some of the

351
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 3: elections that we've seen that are there any indication of

352
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 3: what's to come, Even in the most conservative states, it's

353
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 3: they're they're a cruising for us to take over and

354
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 3: we will, we will, that's our job.

355
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: Well, let's let's hope that is the case, because I

356
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: will say, you know that the word unprecedented is so overused,

357
00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: and the word consequential is so overused. But the the

358
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: fact is that we have been an are at our

359
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: break at our breaking point, and I think that the

360
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: next you know, twelve months, you know, or so are

361
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: really going to be a pressure cooker whether America survives

362
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: And I don't even you know, And I guess the

363
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,239
Speaker 1: last question for you, I'll say, I'll ask is this is,

364
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: even if democracy comes out the other side of this,

365
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: does America, how we've understood it, come out the other

366
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: side of this? Or are we in a I don't know,

367
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: a burned down moment, phoenix rising moment regardless, because so

368
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: much has been torched.

369
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 3: It's safe to say that that's been the case through

370
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: the years, whether it was a fake war in Iraq

371
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 3: after nine to eleven, we can go way back with

372
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 3: our history. This is not history repeats itself, and democracy

373
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 3: is a journey. It's not a destination, and it's got

374
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 3: to change and it's got a shape shift to incorporate

375
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 3: the people who are in it. The founding fathers really

376
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 3: did not have an appreciation for the level of differences

377
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 3: amongst people and what it would mean to incorporate all

378
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 3: as equal. And so hopefully there are more and more

379
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,479
Speaker 3: amendments that are past. But what we are seeing is

380
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 3: that there is legal recourse and so this kind of

381
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 3: anger that you're describing, or people being at their wits

382
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 3: end it's there's two types of anger, in my opinion.

383
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 3: There's the blamey kind, which you can only get stuck in, like, oh,

384
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 3: I can't believe you know that, I can't believe that

385
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 3: all these people are still into him, like you know,

386
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 3: the stuff that you can't do anything about. And then

387
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: there's the I am so sick of being sick of

388
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 3: this that that I'm not going to crawl under a rock.

389
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 3: I'm gonna vote, and I'm gonna get as many other

390
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 3: people out there as I can to vote because the

391
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 3: system has not failed us. There. We've called constitutional crises

392
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 3: a couple of times, but here we are, and there's

393
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: ninety one counts against him. Proud boys are being thrown

394
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 3: in jail. The problem is the wheels of justice grind slowly,

395
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 3: so it's a matter of being patient. But the more

396
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 3: patient you are, the more relief you will find. It

397
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 3: certainly will not detract from all the pain and suffering

398
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 3: that people have gone through, but to feel be able

399
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 3: to feel safer in our homes, in our neighborhoods, in

400
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 3: our own skin, that's that's the goal. So yeah, that's

401
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 3: what we all have to move towards. Don't get mad

402
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: get even.

403
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, Doctor Lachman, I appreciate you so much for making

404
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: the time to join Woke app a lot to reflect on,

405
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: UH and to and to think about, but definitely figuring

406
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: out a way to best channel rage and grief in

407
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: this time is definitely what I spend a lot of

408
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: time talking about on this show, So I appreciate you.

409
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: That is it for me today, dear friends on Woke

410
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: a f as always power to the people and to

411
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as

412
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: fun