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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey Darren, Welcome back. It is the Book of Joe

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Speaker 1: podcast with Me, Tom Berducci and of course Joe Madden. Joe,

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Speaker 1: I got a question for you. Are you a fan

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Speaker 1: of game shows?

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Speaker 2: I think I was. We watched Jeopardy last night a

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Speaker 2: little bit, so I watched that, you know growing up.

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Speaker 2: What was it? Was the Gong Show a game show?

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Speaker 2: I guess the Gonk Show? That was. Yeah, that was big.

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Speaker 2: When I was playing in Selena's, me and my roommate

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Speaker 2: Doc Lions would watch it, uh, you know, with just

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Speaker 2: all the characters and eventually a Geene Jene the Dancing Machine.

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Speaker 2: Of course, I appeared at home played for us after

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Speaker 2: a day game at Selenas we all ran up to

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Speaker 2: the plate started dancing with Gene Jane the Dancing Machine

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Speaker 2: who came out of his limousine at Home plate.

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Speaker 1: Wow, what a thrill. Yeah actually got he got to

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Speaker 1: meet him?

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Speaker 2: Yeah we did. It was was a dream come true,

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Speaker 2: it really was. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, we're going to play a game later on with you, Joe.

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Speaker 1: It involves the Hall of Fame. We'll test your knowledge

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But before we get there we have

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Speaker 1: to talk about Jackson Holiday. Number one prospect in baseball,

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Speaker 1: just I can't miss kind of prospect who set the

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Speaker 1: all time high school record for hits, breaking the record

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Speaker 1: by J t Rio Muto. Just tore through the minor leagues,

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Speaker 1: had a great spring training, slugging over six hundred. They

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Speaker 1: sent him down to start the season just to play

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Speaker 1: a little more second base, see a few more left

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Speaker 1: handed pitchers, and then just completely fell on his face

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Speaker 1: in the big leagues. We're talking about thirty six plate appearances,

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Speaker 1: and he struck out half the time, two hits when

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Speaker 1: he did put the ball in play, fifty poll rate.

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Speaker 1: And I saw him early on in the first couple

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Speaker 1: of days where you saw the typical nervousness Joe guys

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Speaker 1: up in the big leagues, especially in the environment like Fenway,

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Speaker 1: out in front of everything. You just didn't see any

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Speaker 1: kind of confidence or ease in his body at all.

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Speaker 1: And then he never did get his feet on the ground.

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Speaker 1: It was very strange to see someone you think has

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Speaker 1: grown up around the game, wouldn't be wild by the situation,

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Speaker 1: has had a ton of success. The Orioles did the

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Speaker 1: right thing. They had to send him back down the

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Speaker 1: Triple A. He'll be much better when he gets back,

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Speaker 1: of course, But Joe, I'd like your take. And you

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Speaker 1: see a young player, you know is really he's a

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Speaker 1: good hitter, he's a really good player and will be

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Speaker 1: and just to fall completely on his face like that.

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Speaker 1: As a manager, you see something like that going on,

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Speaker 1: what do you think? How do you handle that situation?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, just got to be honest with yourself

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Speaker 2: and everybody around. Yeah, I mean, first of all, I've

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Speaker 2: never seen the kid play, and I know everything you've

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Speaker 2: talked about and everything I've read or heard, and I

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Speaker 2: guess it seemed like he was truly ready to be

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Speaker 2: there obviously, but was there also this pressure to bring

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Speaker 2: him up to maybe ahead of his time. Everybody's always

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Speaker 2: concerned about starting a clock and getting complained against because

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Speaker 2: we're holding him back. We're holding him back. The guy's

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Speaker 2: really young, heasy, and I don't even know maturity wise,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure he's fantastic, But it happens, like you said,

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Speaker 2: it just happens. What was Willie May's like over twenty

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Speaker 2: six before you hit a home running?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like one for twenty three. I mean, listen, Mike,

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Speaker 1: Trout had to go back to the minor leagues. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Byron Buxton was a top pick, number two pick. He

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Speaker 1: had to go back down. You know last year with

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Speaker 1: the Orioles, Grayson Rodriguez and Colton cows Aer both went

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Speaker 1: back down and they've been doing great since they came back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to take catch your breath. I mean

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Speaker 2: sometimes you just the expectations are there. You get to

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Speaker 2: the big leagues. Even though it's the same distance as everything,

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Speaker 2: it just appears differently gets fast. When the world gets fast, man,

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Speaker 2: your talents go away. It's that simple. Your confidence, Dwayne's

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Speaker 2: a little bit and all all of a sudden, it's

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Speaker 2: just different. It gets. The best way to describe it

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Speaker 2: to those that are not in that situation is everything

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Speaker 2: moves way too quickly. You can't slow it down. You

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Speaker 2: don't breathe properly. He goes up to the plate, he's

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Speaker 2: just swinging up pictures just to put it in play,

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Speaker 2: not to strike out. He's eager, so he's rolling over

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Speaker 2: and pulling everything he's in the ball get to him

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Speaker 2: and drive it the opposite field. Just happens. It just happens.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, I'm sure he's going to be fine

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Speaker 2: and next time, next time through if I'm the Oriols,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure they're not really concerned about it. The

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Speaker 2: kid himself's got a great pedigree with his pop and

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Speaker 2: everybody else, so it's all going to be handled well.

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Speaker 2: But stuff happens. Expectations can be kind of difficult to

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Speaker 2: handle sometimes when you're that young, that much expected of you,

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Speaker 2: and the world gets a little bit too fast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, you're talking about a guy who's never

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Speaker 1: failed before. He's only twenty years old, but he has

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Speaker 1: never gone through anything like this, and it happens at

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Speaker 1: the big league level with a spotlight on you. It's

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Speaker 1: a lot to bear, there's no question about it. So

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Speaker 1: the next day you find yourself in Norfolk, Virginia in

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Speaker 1: front of eight thousand fans and he started one for

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Speaker 1: eight in his first two games. But he's obviously going

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Speaker 1: to be okay if I find any fault here. Joe,

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Speaker 1: I like your opinion on this is he's a natural shortstop,

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Speaker 1: But to me, he's not a big league shortstop. You know,

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Speaker 1: he just doesn't have the arm to play the position,

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Speaker 1: at least when you compare him to Gunnar Henderson. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you were a scout you're watching both these guys

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Speaker 1: at a showcase, you would say, Gunnar Henderson is my shortstop,

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Speaker 1: and we'll find a place for the other guy. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I thought that the Orioles should have known

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Speaker 1: that coming into this twenty twenty four season and given

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Speaker 1: him reps at second base exclusively in spring training. And

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Speaker 1: I know that Gunnery also played some third base last year.

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Speaker 1: He's a great enough athlete you can put him anywhere.

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Speaker 1: And I feel the same about Jackson Holliday. Good enough athlete,

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Speaker 1: you can put him anywhere. And I saw him defensively

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Speaker 1: at second base as shortstime short time in the big leagues,

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Speaker 1: and I did not see a shortstop arm, to be

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Speaker 1: quite honest with you. So he's going to be, I

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Speaker 1: think a great major league second baseman. But if I'm

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Speaker 1: the Orioles, I would have just put him there in

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Speaker 1: spring training and just let him run there and get

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Speaker 1: comfortable at second base.

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Speaker 2: Cannot agree with you more. I mean I always to

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Speaker 2: fight that when in the minor leagues, and this was

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Speaker 2: a big deal back in the day. You were afraid

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Speaker 2: to move a guy to his position because you're concerned

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Speaker 2: about all this awful mental gymnastics, he's going to have

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Speaker 2: to go through. Go through. But in a situation like that,

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Speaker 2: if you know that you have a guy at shortstop

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Speaker 2: and this is his position, you know, but you already

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Speaker 2: got somebody there established and well, and he could always

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Speaker 2: go back there if you have to. I'm a big

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Speaker 2: believer in moving him, absolutely moving him, because when the

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Speaker 2: bat is ready, you have to have a place to

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Speaker 2: play somebody. So in a perfect world, say it was

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Speaker 2: going to be in the minor leagues longer than he was,

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Speaker 2: and the shortstop was well established position, regardless of the

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Speaker 2: Oriols or anybody else, move him, Move him around, give

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Speaker 2: him different positions to play at, get him comfortable, because

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Speaker 2: when his bat is ready and there's a position or

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Speaker 2: a spot open or available, you want to be ready

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Speaker 2: to plug him right into that spot and not have

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Speaker 2: to wait for a shortstop spot to be open, or

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Speaker 2: bring him to the big leagues and start teaching him

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Speaker 2: on the fly completely a new position, which again is

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Speaker 2: going to rev it up a little bit to the

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Speaker 2: point where you're right going to the ballpark, dal He's

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Speaker 2: going to be a little bit different than he hadn't

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Speaker 2: normally been used to so I agree, I'm all about that.

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Speaker 2: It was about that in the minor leagues. I wanted

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Speaker 2: guys moving around. I also, like I said, I thought

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Speaker 2: you could get to the big league sooner if you

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Speaker 2: were more adaptable at other positions. So that again, once

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Speaker 2: the bat is ready and you want the kid there,

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Speaker 2: you have to be ready to plug him in somewhere,

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Speaker 2: and you wanted to be ready by having had reps

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Speaker 2: in the minor leagues.

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Speaker 1: Joe, do you recall a situation where you had someone

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Speaker 1: come up from the minor leagues and just it wasn't happening,

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Speaker 1: whether you know it wasn't ready for the big leagues,

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Speaker 1: it was mental, physical, whatever, And how do you handle

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Speaker 1: that between the manager and the front office. That's a

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Speaker 1: big decision. Personally, I think it's a lot of blogning

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Speaker 1: when people say when you bring you up to the

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Speaker 1: big leagues, you should be there to stay. To me,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with having to go back down. It

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Speaker 1: actually can be really beneficial to a player. But I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering as a manager, you're handling, you know, a young

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Speaker 1: guy the big leagues for the first time, and he's failing.

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Speaker 1: That decision to send him back down. How much of

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Speaker 1: that should be the manager, how much should be the

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Speaker 1: front office.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I do believe that when you bring

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Speaker 2: somebody up, you bring him up with the intention a

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Speaker 2: really a real player guy that he's going to stay.

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Speaker 2: You always bring him up with that intent. You think

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Speaker 2: he's ready. All the bells and whistles, everybody's considering them

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Speaker 2: in order, and you think this guy is here to stay.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's part of the dialogue, and I'm

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Speaker 2: not opposed to that. But once he gets there and

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Speaker 2: things are not turning out, well, it's a conversation between

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Speaker 2: both ends, I believe, because the guys in the dugout

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Speaker 2: in the clubhouse are going to hear and see things

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Speaker 2: that the people upstairs are not. People upstairs are not

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Speaker 2: privy to those conversations, and just like a look, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm a big, big thing about reading faces, and I

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Speaker 2: believe in it. I'm done it for long enough and

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Speaker 2: I know and there's a lot of other guys that'll

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Speaker 2: tell you the same thing. So you'll see a guy

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Speaker 2: coming back and totally defeated, look in his face, totally

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Speaker 2: kind of always walking with his head down coming to

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Speaker 2: the ballpark. There's no life you talk to him conversationally.

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Speaker 2: There's no confidence. It's just it's just true. It just happens.

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Speaker 2: So I think it starts with the field people on

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Speaker 2: the field, and then it's of course it's going to

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Speaker 2: move to the people upstairs are going to be become

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Speaker 2: part of the conversation. However, there are sometimes you might

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Speaker 2: get impatience from the front office, But with the guy

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Speaker 2: in the dugout, etc. You kind of like, you kind

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Speaker 2: of like what he looks like, You kind of like

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Speaker 2: what he's saying. You just think there's like, just give

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Speaker 2: a little bit more time, Give a little bit more time.

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Speaker 2: It's going to play. So it can work both ways.

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Speaker 2: I believe that I've seen that. I'm trying to think

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Speaker 2: of somebody specifically that I felt we had to set

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Speaker 2: back down that we did not want to. I can't

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Speaker 2: remember more specifically with the Cubs or even more recently

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Speaker 2: with the Angels, guys that we held onto and then

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Speaker 2: and didn't want to send back. I can't remember that.

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Speaker 1: Did you have did you have Joe?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, I did, but yeah I would. But

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Speaker 2: I always thought he needed more time into minor leagues,

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Speaker 2: and never thought whenever we brought him up. I didn't.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't confident that he was going to be there

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Speaker 2: to stay. Quite frankly, where Brandon Marsha I thought he was.

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Speaker 2: That was a big conversation that we had between those

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Speaker 2: two guys back then, and that was me then slicing

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Speaker 2: it as I got there. That was guys like Marcel

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Speaker 2: Latchman and others that had been there before. My original

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Speaker 2: impression was I love them both, and you know, Joe's

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Speaker 2: got a really high ceiling. But Marcia I thought was

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Speaker 2: a more polished baseball player, and I thought he had

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Speaker 2: a chance to be there and stay there sooner than

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Speaker 2: Joe did. So that was part of my part, part

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Speaker 2: of the conversation when I spoke in meetings, That's what

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Speaker 2: I saw. And eventually, of course Marsha gets traded to

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Speaker 2: the Phillies and then Joe still going up and down

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Speaker 2: a bit. So that doesn't surprise me. That wasn't a surprise.

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Speaker 2: So sometimes sometimes I think what does happen is front

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Speaker 2: officers will push a guy to get to the big

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Speaker 2: league sooner because quite frankly, I want to validate their

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Speaker 2: scouting department or somebody that they chose to bring on board.

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Speaker 2: It happens when you bring somebody on board, when he's

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Speaker 2: your baby, when he's your highre whatever however you want

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Speaker 2: to describe it, You're going to be more tolerant, more patient,

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Speaker 2: and you want to see him there sooner to validate

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Speaker 2: the process that got him there. And it kind of

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Speaker 2: looks good just being honest. So that happens, and I

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Speaker 2: absolutely believe it happens. I've seen it happen. So there's

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Speaker 2: all those little dynamics going on, all the little politics

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Speaker 2: that are involved in this too. I just from my perspective,

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Speaker 2: we've talked about it. I really like to I want

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Speaker 2: to believe I work from more of a pure intentions.

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Speaker 2: I have no skin in the game. How much we

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Speaker 2: paid it, when round he was drafted, and where he

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Speaker 2: came from, Do I know anybody in his family whatever,

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Speaker 2: I have nothing of that. It's just like you look

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Speaker 2: in eyeballs. What am I seeing right here? Based on

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Speaker 2: my experiences, and I try to make my biased opinion

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Speaker 2: based on all of that. But I'm here to tell

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Speaker 2: you there's a lot of bias involved even in opinion

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Speaker 2: making and why somebody is promoted to the big leagues

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Speaker 2: rather than later.

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Speaker 1: Well, I still think the best Baltimore Orioles team and

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Speaker 1: you will see this for most of this season, has

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Speaker 1: Jackson Holiday at second base and Jordan Westberg at third base.

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Speaker 1: Ramon Orias is playing third base and just I don't

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Speaker 1: think he's enough of an offensive player to hold down

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Speaker 1: that position on an everyday basis. But I think Jackson

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Speaker 1: Holiday will be that type of hitter. So how long

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Speaker 1: he stays down who knows it. You know, it could

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Speaker 1: be a matter of weeks, it could be a matter

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Speaker 1: of months. We don't know. He'll let us know when

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Speaker 1: he's ready, but I do think you're going to see

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Speaker 1: him be the everyday second baseman in the second half

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Speaker 1: of the season, at least for the Baltimore Orioles. My

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Speaker 1: question for you, Joe, when I look at the Orioles,

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Speaker 1: they remind me a lot of your twenty sixteen Cubs team.

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Speaker 1: These young players who are hitting their prime early so

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Speaker 1: to speak. I love the athleticism, I love the positional versatility.

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Speaker 1: I think they're starting pitching is better than people think,

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Speaker 1: especially with John Means and Bradish coming back to the rotation.

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Speaker 1: They're prime to win. They've got the experience of last

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Speaker 1: year under their belt. This is not new to them.

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Speaker 1: They have expectations of winning. The problem for the Baltimore

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Speaker 1: Orioles and you actually had this in sixteen Joe as well.

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Speaker 1: They need a legitimate closer to run through rounds of

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Speaker 1: the postseason. You're not getting there with Craig Kimberll. He's

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Speaker 1: got a little bit of a back issue here. He's

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Speaker 1: just his ability to throw strikes is too often in question.

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Speaker 1: He's given it up a couple of times recently. That

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Speaker 1: could be back related, we don't know. But they need

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Speaker 1: a surer thing. And you made that the Cubs and

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Speaker 1: THEO made that move to get a rold As Chapman

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Speaker 1: on that sixteen team when you were just running away

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Speaker 1: with things at that point, but knowing to finish off

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Speaker 1: the team, he needed somebody to back end. I think

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Speaker 1: the Baltimore Orioles, with all of their great young position players,

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Speaker 1: are going to have the trade from that depth to

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Speaker 1: go get a legit closer if they want to win

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Speaker 1: the World Series.

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Speaker 2: That sound, yeah, we did need Chappie to do all that.

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Speaker 2: I remember when he came on board. I think it

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Speaker 2: was against Seattle, first game or something at Wrigley. When

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Speaker 2: you when you when somebody like that arrives on the scene.

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Speaker 2: It definitely does bring some more life into the clubhouse.

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Speaker 2: There's a it's definitely felt and it does matter, does

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Speaker 2: make a difference from a manager's perspective. When you do

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Speaker 2: have the anchor at the end, it then permits you

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Speaker 2: to utilize your bullpen differently as you work through the

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Speaker 2: first eight innings when you get to the playoffs. I

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Speaker 2: prefer doing when you get to the playoffs more more

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Speaker 2: often than not, and that's when you might get four

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Speaker 2: outside of the sky or five outs. Of course, have

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Speaker 2: done more than that once you've gotten to the playoffs.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, when you when you have the guy this

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Speaker 2: is this is Tom Perducci's my ninth Inny Guy, then

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Speaker 2: the first eight innings become completely different in regards to

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Speaker 2: how I could work my way through this knowing that

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Speaker 2: that when inning is taken care of, so it's it's

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Speaker 2: might not sound like a whole lot. And I know

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of analytical people that will say that

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Speaker 2: it's another three outs. It is, but I'll tell you

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Speaker 2: what it's different. Three outs. It's uh, the offense ramps

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Speaker 2: it up a bit, and from your perspective, you're doing

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Speaker 2: it every day. It's something every day with perfection is

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Speaker 2: the benchmark. It's not about being you know, it's not

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Speaker 2: like horse shoes coming close once in a while. It's

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Speaker 2: you've got to be perfect in this particular job and

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Speaker 2: that there's a mindset that really is necessary to handle

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Speaker 2: all this. And the biggest part is when you're going

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Speaker 2: to fail, how does how does this guy react to failure?

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Speaker 2: How does he when he blows one? What does he do?

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Speaker 2: And how does he react? And does? That's where real,

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Speaker 2: significantly good closers separate themselves. So it is a difference maker.

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Speaker 2: And I agree with you. I think that's exactly what's

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Speaker 2: going to happen. And sometimes you do have to give

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Speaker 2: it up. And I know, like I know, THEO proclaimed

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Speaker 2: he pushed all the chips into the middle of the

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Speaker 2: table we're in, and with that you've got to make

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Speaker 2: a move or give some people up you don't normally

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Speaker 2: want to. At some point, Baltimore has to do that

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Speaker 2: because you know, theory, reality is one thing. Actually winning

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Speaker 2: a World Series is something else, and you got to

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Speaker 2: give something up to get something in return. So in

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Speaker 2: order to get there, they're probably gonna have to do that.

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Speaker 2: At some point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's well said, because I remember THEO at that

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Speaker 1: time saying, and I love the line. If not now,

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Speaker 1: when right, right, you had the best record in the league,

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Speaker 1: the team had won the World Series more than one

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Speaker 1: hundred years. Yeah, you're going to trade a guy like

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Speaker 1: Labor Torres and six years of control. He's going to

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Speaker 1: make All Star teams, he's going to hit thirty home runs.

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Speaker 1: It's a high price to pay. But again, if not now, when,

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Speaker 1: if you're the Baltimore Orioles, if not now, when you

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Speaker 1: have a team that is World Series capable. You haven't

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Speaker 1: been there in forever, and you have, whether it's Kobe

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Speaker 1: Mayo or Heston kurst Ed or Colton Cawser, You've got

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Speaker 1: some duplication in your system and these young position players,

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Speaker 1: so you have the depth to trade. And yes, it's

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Speaker 1: going to hurt, but it should hurt if you're trying

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Speaker 1: to win the World Series.

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Speaker 2: Let's putting on that too. I'm here to say we

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Speaker 2: don't win that without raw this. We just don't. I mean,

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Speaker 2: our bullpen guys got hurt. At the end of the year.

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Speaker 2: Some guys won as good as they had been, and

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Speaker 2: we were relying on some young folks with Montgomery and

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Speaker 2: it was one of my tall, skinny guy's name. Again,

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Speaker 2: I ge't remember right off the top of my head.

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Speaker 2: Carl Edwards, Carl Edwards Junior. Thank you. I'm sorry, Carl,

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Speaker 2: if you're listening. But we're relying on a lot of

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Speaker 2: young guys right there. And and I know people have

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Speaker 2: made accusations that I used them too long or too much,

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Speaker 2: but that was the only way to win that thing

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Speaker 2: was to rely on a roll this because he was

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Speaker 2: the difference maker for us. He got the big outs,

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Speaker 2: and without him there, the Cubs have not won a

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Speaker 2: World Series since, like you know, eight.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break here on the

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Speaker 1: Book of Joe Podcasts, and when we get back, I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about how, if you haven't noticed this,

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Speaker 1: the Boston Red Sox are changing the game of baseball.

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Speaker 3: We'll talk about that next, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, Joe, I don't know if you paid attention to

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Speaker 1: the Boston Red Sox. Of course, they hired Craig Breslo

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Speaker 1: as their chief baseball officer, and they brought in Andrew

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Speaker 1: Bailey as their pitching coach, and they are bringing an

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Speaker 1: entirely different model to how to pitch in the big leagues.

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Speaker 1: The Boston Red Sox pitching staff are throwing fewer fastballs

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Speaker 1: than any staff in the recorded history of Major League Baseball.

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Speaker 1: They are down to about thirty percent. I'm not talking

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Speaker 1: about cutters. I'm talking about four seamers and sinkers. And

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Speaker 1: what's happened is they have boosted their number of sweepers

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Speaker 1: to the second most in baseball, their number of cutters

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Speaker 1: to the most in baseballs. Their four steamers are down

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Speaker 1: fifteen percent from last year. Last year they were probably

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the pack, right around major league gaverage.

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Speaker 1: As you know, fastballs used to be the bread and

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Speaker 1: butter at pitching, right that's your primary pitch, establish your fastball,

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Speaker 1: work off your fastball. Well, about three years ago, fastballs

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Speaker 1: fell below fifty percent for the first time in recorded history,

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Speaker 1: and it continues to go down down again this year.

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Speaker 1: But the Red Sox are taking it to an entirely

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Speaker 1: different level. And again, they were about league average last

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Speaker 1: year and Breslo and Bailey get in and you know,

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Speaker 1: they've taken it to a whole new level here. So

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Speaker 1: it's working. They have the best dra in baseball. So

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Speaker 1: you know how baseball works, Joe. It's like the NFL

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Speaker 1: as well, they say, is a copycat league. Somebody has

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Speaker 1: success and you want people want to copy it. Red

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Speaker 1: Sox are having success throwing very few fastballs. So I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering what your take is here, whether this is just

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Speaker 1: a fad or we're going to see this spread around

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Speaker 1: the game.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, velocity has been it maybe I don't

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Speaker 2: even know if they somehow believe it's a combination of

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Speaker 2: throwing more breaking balls and the fact that you have

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Speaker 2: less likelihood of injury. I mean, because we just had

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Speaker 2: our guests on recently talking about it's not only trying

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Speaker 2: to chase velocity, but it's always it's also chasing a

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Speaker 2: lot of breaking balls and the sweeper. And I think

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Speaker 2: the sweeper was mentioned in that particular episode two. So

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't have an answer for that.

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Speaker 2: It's another fatish kind of a thing, I think, because

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Speaker 2: wait for the hitters to make the adjustment. Let's see

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Speaker 2: what happens as we move this thing through and furthermore,

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Speaker 2: the attrition rate of their pitching stuff. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't know enough yet, but I also know that

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Speaker 2: really a good wealth placed fastball is still very difficult

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Speaker 2: to hit again. I'd like to know maybe their equation

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Speaker 2: has something to do with the injury problem, and by

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Speaker 2: throwing less fastballs and not chasing velocity as much, they

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Speaker 2: believe we're less likely to be hurt. There's more to it.

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Speaker 2: I know Craig and he's he's a very bright young man.

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Speaker 2: I've had Andrew around a bit too, and I know

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Speaker 2: he's very inquisitive. Also, this is one thing I think

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Speaker 2: requires more time and more than anything. And you're right though,

429
00:20:53,478 --> 00:20:56,318
Speaker 2: I trust you. I trust me it's right. If it

430
00:20:56,438 --> 00:21:00,038
Speaker 2: in fact shows to be somewhat productive, you're gonna see

431
00:21:00,198 --> 00:21:04,198
Speaker 2: everybody chase, and everybody because that's how our league works,

432
00:21:04,198 --> 00:21:08,358
Speaker 2: everybody chases with the flavor of the month. Is my

433
00:21:08,438 --> 00:21:10,198
Speaker 2: guess would be it's going to level out. I would

434
00:21:10,278 --> 00:21:12,398
Speaker 2: like to think, or I believe that maybe the next

435
00:21:12,398 --> 00:21:14,558
Speaker 2: time through. Are they going to go more to the fastball.

436
00:21:14,718 --> 00:21:16,718
Speaker 2: I don't know, because they're going to see like hitters

437
00:21:16,758 --> 00:21:19,438
Speaker 2: making adjustments to it. I've always believed you could throw

438
00:21:19,438 --> 00:21:21,118
Speaker 2: too many breaking balls, you're going to start hanging and

439
00:21:21,118 --> 00:21:24,078
Speaker 2: they're going to start getting banged, because primarily your teach

440
00:21:24,118 --> 00:21:27,438
Speaker 2: hitters to look for fastball first and then adjust down

441
00:21:27,438 --> 00:21:29,598
Speaker 2: to the off speech stuff. So maybe it might be

442
00:21:29,638 --> 00:21:31,798
Speaker 2: a philosophical change on how you approach them when you

443
00:21:31,838 --> 00:21:34,558
Speaker 2: face the Red Sox. Yeah, I would just wait and see.

444
00:21:34,598 --> 00:21:36,198
Speaker 2: I'm not totally convinced yet.

445
00:21:36,518 --> 00:21:38,558
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, it's only a month of the season. I

446
00:21:38,598 --> 00:21:41,198
Speaker 1: get it. And one thing to keep an eye on

447
00:21:41,358 --> 00:21:44,078
Speaker 1: is as well as the Red Sox have pitched, they

448
00:21:44,118 --> 00:21:48,598
Speaker 1: do not have pitchers who have a lot of innings

449
00:21:48,838 --> 00:21:50,998
Speaker 1: under their belt. I'm talking about one hundred and sixty

450
00:21:50,998 --> 00:21:53,478
Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy innings that you know. They just

451
00:21:53,558 --> 00:21:56,278
Speaker 1: don't have pictures who've gotten to that level. So at

452
00:21:56,318 --> 00:21:59,278
Speaker 1: some point, assuming they stay healthy, you know, the Tanner

453
00:21:59,318 --> 00:22:02,638
Speaker 1: Hawks and the Cutter Crawfords and the Garrett Whitlocks are

454
00:22:02,718 --> 00:22:06,078
Speaker 1: going to get to a point of uncharted territories. So

455
00:22:06,438 --> 00:22:08,838
Speaker 1: that alone will be a factor in the second half

456
00:22:08,838 --> 00:22:12,958
Speaker 1: of the season. But I you know, Cutter Crawford is

457
00:22:12,958 --> 00:22:15,878
Speaker 1: now one of the best pitchers in baseball, and he's

458
00:22:15,958 --> 00:22:17,998
Speaker 1: going to throw a fastball thirty percent of the time.

459
00:22:18,118 --> 00:22:22,558
Speaker 1: That's it. He's really boosted his sweeper percentage. And to me, Joe,

460
00:22:22,638 --> 00:22:25,678
Speaker 1: it's it's really data driven more than anything. Else. Maybe

461
00:22:25,678 --> 00:22:30,078
Speaker 1: there's some health issues here, but an elite fastball is

462
00:22:30,118 --> 00:22:33,878
Speaker 1: actually easier to hit than an average breaking ball. Think

463
00:22:33,878 --> 00:22:36,878
Speaker 1: about that. An elite fastball I'm talking about upper nineties

464
00:22:36,998 --> 00:22:40,838
Speaker 1: is easier to hit than an average breaking ball. The

465
00:22:41,118 --> 00:22:45,358
Speaker 1: overall average on four seamers is two forty four. That's

466
00:22:45,358 --> 00:22:48,478
Speaker 1: slightly above the major league gaverage in April, which is

467
00:22:48,518 --> 00:22:50,558
Speaker 1: only two forty one. We can talk about that in

468
00:22:50,598 --> 00:22:54,998
Speaker 1: a minute. So two forty four against four steamers. Against sweepers,

469
00:22:55,038 --> 00:22:58,158
Speaker 1: it's two oh nine. So if you follow the data,

470
00:22:58,798 --> 00:23:02,798
Speaker 1: you'll just say, well, throw more sweepers, throw fewer four seamers.

471
00:23:03,198 --> 00:23:05,438
Speaker 1: That's what the Red side doing. And I agree with

472
00:23:05,478 --> 00:23:08,038
Speaker 1: you it's a little too early to call it a success.

473
00:23:08,438 --> 00:23:11,718
Speaker 1: But from one month into this season, the Red Sox

474
00:23:11,958 --> 00:23:15,678
Speaker 1: to me, are challenged offensively, are hanging in there because

475
00:23:15,998 --> 00:23:19,198
Speaker 1: they are taking the idea of pitching backward to a

476
00:23:19,238 --> 00:23:20,118
Speaker 1: whole new extreme.

477
00:23:20,318 --> 00:23:23,958
Speaker 2: Yeah again, it is different. As a hitter, you've been

478
00:23:23,998 --> 00:23:27,678
Speaker 2: training yourself to approach this at back differently to the

479
00:23:27,718 --> 00:23:31,118
Speaker 2: point where it's hard. Sometimes it looks soft because when

480
00:23:31,158 --> 00:23:33,358
Speaker 2: you're looking soft, I've always felt this, if you're looking

481
00:23:33,398 --> 00:23:36,798
Speaker 2: something soft, beating a breaking ball, and a pitcher throws

482
00:23:36,798 --> 00:23:39,318
Speaker 2: you a fastball, there's really very little chance to hit

483
00:23:39,358 --> 00:23:42,558
Speaker 2: that ball well. But if you're thinking fastball, thinking hard,

484
00:23:42,678 --> 00:23:45,118
Speaker 2: and he happens to throw something soft, breaking ball, you

485
00:23:45,158 --> 00:23:48,278
Speaker 2: could adjust down and do something with it. That's always

486
00:23:48,278 --> 00:23:50,318
Speaker 2: been part of it. So I think right now, if

487
00:23:50,358 --> 00:23:52,758
Speaker 2: they're throwing just all breaking balls, I mean they might

488
00:23:52,798 --> 00:23:54,678
Speaker 2: adjust down to the point where they're saying the heck

489
00:23:54,718 --> 00:23:56,758
Speaker 2: with the fastball, even though I'm laid on it, I'm

490
00:23:56,798 --> 00:23:58,878
Speaker 2: just going to make my adjustment down. Time it up.

491
00:23:59,198 --> 00:24:01,158
Speaker 2: Maybe you're going to see higher lay kicks. Maybe you're

492
00:24:01,198 --> 00:24:03,798
Speaker 2: going to see something different that's going to permit the

493
00:24:04,118 --> 00:24:07,398
Speaker 2: to stay back longer or see it forte click longer,

494
00:24:08,518 --> 00:24:10,798
Speaker 2: more acceptance. And again, where is it that the sweepers

495
00:24:10,798 --> 00:24:12,678
Speaker 2: know me away? Right? We're down and into a lefty

496
00:24:12,798 --> 00:24:15,158
Speaker 2: down in a way to a writing something to that effect,

497
00:24:15,198 --> 00:24:16,798
Speaker 2: that's going to be how you're going to adjust your vision.

498
00:24:17,718 --> 00:24:20,558
Speaker 2: They'll talk about it a lot and way. I think

499
00:24:20,598 --> 00:24:23,758
Speaker 2: players today are willing to follow the data to the

500
00:24:23,838 --> 00:24:26,518
Speaker 2: to the extent that going into a series, all you

501
00:24:26,518 --> 00:24:28,158
Speaker 2: need is one or two teams in a row to

502
00:24:28,238 --> 00:24:30,958
Speaker 2: make an adjustment to teach the next group how to

503
00:24:30,998 --> 00:24:33,758
Speaker 2: do this and they will so again, I just think

504
00:24:33,798 --> 00:24:36,398
Speaker 2: it's early to be normally like what wasn't just an

505
00:24:36,398 --> 00:24:38,118
Speaker 2: issue in the past. We I think we talked about

506
00:24:38,118 --> 00:24:40,398
Speaker 2: it in the playoffs. I remember with the Cubs we

507
00:24:40,478 --> 00:24:42,798
Speaker 2: saw way more breaking ball, I thought, in the postseason

508
00:24:43,198 --> 00:24:45,998
Speaker 2: than we saw during the season, which then resulted in

509
00:24:46,118 --> 00:24:48,678
Speaker 2: us hitting less in the postseason. Maybe it's just to

510
00:24:48,718 --> 00:24:50,558
Speaker 2: carry over into the season and seeing if you could

511
00:24:50,558 --> 00:24:52,838
Speaker 2: do it all year and if your arms could hold

512
00:24:52,918 --> 00:24:54,358
Speaker 2: up to it. Do you have enough arms? Like you're

513
00:24:54,358 --> 00:24:57,238
Speaker 2: saying pictures that haven't thrown enough innings? Wow, there's so

514
00:24:57,358 --> 00:25:00,118
Speaker 2: much going on there. Man. I would just play it

515
00:25:00,118 --> 00:25:02,798
Speaker 2: on out and then just try to sift through it

516
00:25:02,838 --> 00:25:05,638
Speaker 2: as we move through this season. But I'm curious if

517
00:25:05,718 --> 00:25:07,758
Speaker 2: the next time through all these teams that are seeing

518
00:25:08,078 --> 00:25:10,678
Speaker 2: the Red Sox were the first time, if in fact

519
00:25:10,678 --> 00:25:12,998
Speaker 2: they're able to make an adjustment the second time they

520
00:25:13,038 --> 00:25:13,718
Speaker 2: see this team.

521
00:25:14,158 --> 00:25:16,758
Speaker 1: Yeah, well see. I mean I will say that, especially

522
00:25:16,798 --> 00:25:19,358
Speaker 1: with Cutter Crawford, most of these Red Sox pitchers, they

523
00:25:19,758 --> 00:25:23,558
Speaker 1: do not pitch to patterns at all. Cutter Crawford, he's

524
00:25:23,598 --> 00:25:25,838
Speaker 1: got like five different pitches. Is throw a split, he

525
00:25:25,878 --> 00:25:28,958
Speaker 1: throw a sinker, occasional forced seamer. He's got the sweeper.

526
00:25:29,998 --> 00:25:33,038
Speaker 1: He actually reminds me of you, Darbish, with the way

527
00:25:33,078 --> 00:25:36,158
Speaker 1: he can spin the baseball and stay out of patterns.

528
00:25:36,158 --> 00:25:38,238
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes with you Darbish, you think, you know

529
00:25:38,758 --> 00:25:41,518
Speaker 1: he's got too many weapons and he doesn't attack enough.

530
00:25:42,198 --> 00:25:45,198
Speaker 1: But Cutter Crawford does a great job of mixing his

531
00:25:45,238 --> 00:25:47,558
Speaker 1: pitches and staying out of patterns. And I think when

532
00:25:47,558 --> 00:25:50,958
Speaker 1: we talk about the Red Sox going to more non fastballs,

533
00:25:52,158 --> 00:25:55,678
Speaker 1: they have a variety of pitches. So and by the way,

534
00:25:55,838 --> 00:25:57,558
Speaker 1: the only two guys I've ever known who could sit

535
00:25:57,678 --> 00:26:01,598
Speaker 1: soft and react to fastballs, Bryce Harper and Don Mattingly.

536
00:26:01,998 --> 00:26:03,598
Speaker 1: Both of them told me there were times where they

537
00:26:03,598 --> 00:26:06,558
Speaker 1: set soft and still could hit a fastball. I mean

538
00:26:06,598 --> 00:26:08,558
Speaker 1: that's freakish, Yeah, it is.

539
00:26:08,638 --> 00:26:10,758
Speaker 2: I mean the best way I could describe it to

540
00:26:10,798 --> 00:26:13,678
Speaker 2: people listening. If you're a catcher, which I was, and

541
00:26:13,758 --> 00:26:15,438
Speaker 2: as let's say there's a run around second base, we

542
00:26:15,478 --> 00:26:17,958
Speaker 2: used to roll our signs, and so if you put

543
00:26:17,998 --> 00:26:20,598
Speaker 2: down which you perceived to be a you put the

544
00:26:20,638 --> 00:26:23,878
Speaker 2: fastball signed down. But the pitcher somehow saw something breaking ball,

545
00:26:24,358 --> 00:26:27,158
Speaker 2: whether the slider, curveball or change up. He goes in

546
00:26:27,198 --> 00:26:29,238
Speaker 2: and throws at your minds thinking, here comes a fastball,

547
00:26:29,238 --> 00:26:31,358
Speaker 2: and he throws something soft. Here, you're able to react

548
00:26:31,358 --> 00:26:32,678
Speaker 2: to it as a catch. You could knock it down,

549
00:26:32,718 --> 00:26:35,638
Speaker 2: you could catch, you could make an adjustment. Okay, we're okay.

550
00:26:35,878 --> 00:26:39,038
Speaker 2: But if you put down something soft, whether it's a curveball, slider,

551
00:26:39,158 --> 00:26:41,598
Speaker 2: or even a change up, and he saw a fastball,

552
00:26:42,038 --> 00:26:44,478
Speaker 2: that's when umpires got hit because it's really hard to

553
00:26:44,518 --> 00:26:46,958
Speaker 2: react mentally and get your glove of mient time to

554
00:26:46,998 --> 00:26:50,278
Speaker 2: actually catch the fastball thinking something soft. And that's why

555
00:26:50,318 --> 00:26:52,518
Speaker 2: I've always I think Gary Guyatty told me the same

556
00:26:52,558 --> 00:26:55,038
Speaker 2: thing one time. Gary was able to sit soft and

557
00:26:55,118 --> 00:26:57,678
Speaker 2: hit hard. But that's it. I mean, that was the

558
00:26:57,678 --> 00:26:59,398
Speaker 2: way I've described it the hitters in the past to

559
00:26:59,478 --> 00:27:02,398
Speaker 2: try to get them to always say keep your fastball, hack,

560
00:27:02,438 --> 00:27:05,638
Speaker 2: load it, and adjust down. Man, it's somebody that's just

561
00:27:05,678 --> 00:27:07,918
Speaker 2: breaking ball, breaking ball, breaking ball, then you might want

562
00:27:07,958 --> 00:27:12,198
Speaker 2: to try something differently. But that's for those just think

563
00:27:12,238 --> 00:27:15,398
Speaker 2: about it. For the baseball people listening. As a catcher,

564
00:27:15,518 --> 00:27:20,318
Speaker 2: especially when you're expecting something hard and it's soft, I'm okay,

565
00:27:20,358 --> 00:27:22,878
Speaker 2: But opposite, that's when somebody gets hurt.

566
00:27:23,198 --> 00:27:25,158
Speaker 1: Well, I do think in general, we talk a lot

567
00:27:25,158 --> 00:27:28,318
Speaker 1: about velocity, but the rise of the sweeper and the

568
00:27:28,478 --> 00:27:32,358
Speaker 1: adoption of the cutter as a fastball replacement really made

569
00:27:32,438 --> 00:27:35,598
Speaker 1: hitting extremely hard. And I know the rules last year

570
00:27:35,598 --> 00:27:38,038
Speaker 1: were designed to create more action and less time, and

571
00:27:38,078 --> 00:27:41,398
Speaker 1: overall did that, but man, the hitting environment is so

572
00:27:41,638 --> 00:27:45,438
Speaker 1: tough these days. Joe, the lowest April batting average in

573
00:27:45,478 --> 00:27:47,838
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball since the mound was lowered in nineteen

574
00:27:47,918 --> 00:27:51,518
Speaker 1: sixty nine. The three lowests have happened in the last

575
00:27:51,518 --> 00:27:54,638
Speaker 1: four years, twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, and this

576
00:27:54,758 --> 00:27:57,998
Speaker 1: year twenty twenty four, where it's two forty one. It's

577
00:27:58,038 --> 00:28:01,278
Speaker 1: down six points from last year. Slugging is down eighteen

578
00:28:01,358 --> 00:28:05,038
Speaker 1: points from April of last year. It's the second lowest

579
00:28:05,078 --> 00:28:07,998
Speaker 1: in April in the Wildcard era. Hits per game is

580
00:28:08,078 --> 00:28:11,598
Speaker 1: tracking to be the lowest in a full season since

581
00:28:11,718 --> 00:28:14,878
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight. So as much as I and I

582
00:28:14,958 --> 00:28:17,958
Speaker 1: love the rule changes to improve the pace of action,

583
00:28:18,238 --> 00:28:21,358
Speaker 1: on just pace of game, but man, the hitting environment

584
00:28:21,478 --> 00:28:23,438
Speaker 1: right now is just so hard.

585
00:28:23,838 --> 00:28:26,758
Speaker 2: Well that's with regardless of the team you're on, everybody

586
00:28:26,798 --> 00:28:29,158
Speaker 2: wants to pitch away from slug right, I mean, that

587
00:28:29,238 --> 00:28:30,678
Speaker 2: was the big thing, even back in the day with

588
00:28:30,718 --> 00:28:33,758
Speaker 2: the cubbies. And so when the pitches you're talking about

589
00:28:33,838 --> 00:28:38,318
Speaker 2: are really designed to make the plate wider. You're put

590
00:28:38,318 --> 00:28:40,118
Speaker 2: this a lot of east to west going on. There,

591
00:28:40,438 --> 00:28:43,718
Speaker 2: this slider, the cutter, and then of course the sweeper

592
00:28:44,598 --> 00:28:47,718
Speaker 2: by expanding the plate making it a wider plates, that's

593
00:28:47,718 --> 00:28:49,558
Speaker 2: what we're talking about. And I think with that you

594
00:28:49,798 --> 00:28:53,758
Speaker 2: are always trying to attempting to pitch away from slug velocity.

595
00:28:53,958 --> 00:28:56,198
Speaker 2: The last couple of years, I don't know how many

596
00:28:56,238 --> 00:28:58,958
Speaker 2: years we're talking about, but the elevated velocity fastball was

597
00:28:58,958 --> 00:29:02,118
Speaker 2: a big part of it. You know, when it was

598
00:29:02,158 --> 00:29:04,038
Speaker 2: at the top there we're swinging underneath it all all

599
00:29:04,038 --> 00:29:07,118
Speaker 2: because he's trying to lift the ball. Adjustments are being made,

600
00:29:07,118 --> 00:29:11,758
Speaker 2: even to the point more recently, who am I volpe

601
00:29:12,118 --> 00:29:14,998
Speaker 2: with the And that's in one year. The kid from

602
00:29:15,118 --> 00:29:17,798
Speaker 2: last year didn't like to swing at all and really

603
00:29:17,878 --> 00:29:18,958
Speaker 2: was a lot of lift in it. Now all of

604
00:29:18,958 --> 00:29:21,958
Speaker 2: a sudden, it's not so within one year he's learned

605
00:29:21,998 --> 00:29:25,278
Speaker 2: how to handle the elevated velocity fastball. It's evolution, man,

606
00:29:25,318 --> 00:29:27,198
Speaker 2: These guys have seen so much of it. It's not

607
00:29:27,238 --> 00:29:30,118
Speaker 2: become as effective as when they first came on the

608
00:29:30,118 --> 00:29:33,318
Speaker 2: scene kind of talking into the Red Sox situation. Now

609
00:29:33,318 --> 00:29:36,998
Speaker 2: we're working about a wider east west plate and staying

610
00:29:36,998 --> 00:29:39,318
Speaker 2: away from slut, and that also includes the back door

611
00:29:39,358 --> 00:29:41,998
Speaker 2: breaking ball. See, it's not just about the ball moving

612
00:29:42,038 --> 00:29:44,918
Speaker 2: away from you. When you can make the plate larger

613
00:29:44,958 --> 00:29:47,718
Speaker 2: by hitting the back to the outside edge with this

614
00:29:47,838 --> 00:29:50,558
Speaker 2: breaking ball, that starts as a ball ball and becomes

615
00:29:50,558 --> 00:29:55,758
Speaker 2: a strike, that really makes things problematic right there. Giants

616
00:29:55,798 --> 00:29:57,758
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago is very popular to do

617
00:29:57,918 --> 00:30:00,318
Speaker 2: the back door cutter slider. We're getting a lot of

618
00:30:00,318 --> 00:30:02,878
Speaker 2: called strikes with that, and again making the plate wider,

619
00:30:02,918 --> 00:30:04,958
Speaker 2: and Andrew was a part of that, I believe Bailey

620
00:30:04,998 --> 00:30:08,198
Speaker 2: while he was there. So it's about that seventeen inches

621
00:30:08,238 --> 00:30:10,398
Speaker 2: whatever they're trying to make it into nineteen twenty twenty

622
00:30:10,438 --> 00:30:14,078
Speaker 2: one inches wide. And with that, let's stay off slug. Okay,

623
00:30:14,118 --> 00:30:15,918
Speaker 2: the ball's gonna be put in play, not as hard

624
00:30:16,278 --> 00:30:18,278
Speaker 2: or if it is hit somewhat decently, it's not going

625
00:30:18,318 --> 00:30:20,238
Speaker 2: over the wall. And that's a big part of their

626
00:30:20,238 --> 00:30:21,358
Speaker 2: philosophy I believe too.

627
00:30:21,758 --> 00:30:23,678
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the way you put that. Staying away

628
00:30:23,678 --> 00:30:27,518
Speaker 1: from slug, it's definitely the driving force and that includes

629
00:30:27,638 --> 00:30:31,678
Speaker 1: now pe pitchers do not mind the walk, and walks

630
00:30:31,678 --> 00:30:35,158
Speaker 1: are going up, and that's why you see three two

631
00:30:35,158 --> 00:30:40,958
Speaker 1: three one sweepers and cutters. Nobody's giving in the idea is, well,

632
00:30:40,958 --> 00:30:43,318
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't mind walking a guy because

633
00:30:43,318 --> 00:30:45,638
Speaker 1: I'm staying away from the home run and I can

634
00:30:45,638 --> 00:30:47,318
Speaker 1: try for the swing and miss on the next guy.

635
00:30:47,478 --> 00:30:49,758
Speaker 1: I see that happen all the time, even at the

636
00:30:49,758 --> 00:30:54,118
Speaker 1: bottom of the lineup. So the walk, now, you know,

637
00:30:54,318 --> 00:30:56,518
Speaker 1: used to say joe with a manager. It used to

638
00:30:56,558 --> 00:31:00,478
Speaker 1: drive managers crazy, right, I think there's maybe it's too

639
00:31:00,558 --> 00:31:02,558
Speaker 1: hard to say, or too I'm going too far to

640
00:31:02,598 --> 00:31:05,558
Speaker 1: say it's accepted. But it's definitely accepted more than it

641
00:31:05,638 --> 00:31:05,998
Speaker 1: used to be.

642
00:31:06,158 --> 00:31:09,078
Speaker 2: Well, when it's intentional, you know, it's like, you know,

643
00:31:09,078 --> 00:31:10,598
Speaker 2: if a guy's just wild, that's one thing. If a

644
00:31:10,598 --> 00:31:12,238
Speaker 2: guy can't throw a strike when he want major league

645
00:31:12,238 --> 00:31:13,798
Speaker 2: pitcher should be able to throw a strike when he

646
00:31:13,838 --> 00:31:16,198
Speaker 2: wants to. That should be the definition of a major

647
00:31:16,238 --> 00:31:18,638
Speaker 2: league pitcher. So maybe he doesn't want to, you know,

648
00:31:18,758 --> 00:31:21,478
Speaker 2: it's a strike ball kind of a pitch that they're

649
00:31:21,518 --> 00:31:24,598
Speaker 2: looking they get the chase, or oh well when move

650
00:31:24,638 --> 00:31:27,638
Speaker 2: on to the next hitter. So philosophically, what are we

651
00:31:27,718 --> 00:31:30,158
Speaker 2: trying to do here? Are we trying to throw a strike?

652
00:31:30,598 --> 00:31:32,918
Speaker 2: If you are and you can't, that's a problem. But

653
00:31:32,998 --> 00:31:35,958
Speaker 2: if you're trying to throw a strike ball and you're succeeding,

654
00:31:35,998 --> 00:31:39,958
Speaker 2: that's okay. So I think it comes down to understanding

655
00:31:40,118 --> 00:31:43,798
Speaker 2: which we're trying to get done here. From a manager's perspective,

656
00:31:44,558 --> 00:31:46,878
Speaker 2: there's a conversation before the game, or you're being clued

657
00:31:46,958 --> 00:31:49,558
Speaker 2: in by your pitching coach before the game. They know

658
00:31:49,638 --> 00:31:51,958
Speaker 2: what we're trying to get done here today, and overwatching

659
00:31:51,958 --> 00:31:55,318
Speaker 2: philosophy of the organization in general. Mattie Moore for years,

660
00:31:55,398 --> 00:31:58,238
Speaker 2: Mattie Moe would walk people a lot. He's a little

661
00:31:58,238 --> 00:32:00,678
Speaker 2: bit better right now, but a lot better actually, But

662
00:32:01,038 --> 00:32:03,238
Speaker 2: we never really were worried about it because even if

663
00:32:03,238 --> 00:32:05,838
Speaker 2: you walk the cup guys, to get to square them

664
00:32:05,918 --> 00:32:08,398
Speaker 2: up and drive those runs in was an issue. So

665
00:32:08,958 --> 00:32:12,398
Speaker 2: it's philosophical and it's built in what do we want?

666
00:32:12,878 --> 00:32:14,198
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, as a major

667
00:32:14,278 --> 00:32:16,998
Speaker 2: league manager, I want my major league pitchers to be

668
00:32:17,038 --> 00:32:18,758
Speaker 2: able to throw a strike when they want to, want

669
00:32:18,838 --> 00:32:20,638
Speaker 2: them to be able to shape a ball becoming a

670
00:32:20,678 --> 00:32:23,318
Speaker 2: strike or a strike becoming a ball and that's a

671
00:32:23,358 --> 00:32:25,078
Speaker 2: big part of what's going on today.

672
00:32:25,318 --> 00:32:27,118
Speaker 1: Hey, Joe, did you pay attention at all to the

673
00:32:27,238 --> 00:32:28,038
Speaker 1: NFL Draft?

674
00:32:28,438 --> 00:32:29,518
Speaker 2: I know I did not.

675
00:32:30,118 --> 00:32:33,478
Speaker 1: Sorry, there's a story I saw reminded me of you.

676
00:32:33,678 --> 00:32:36,318
Speaker 1: We need to talk about this. It involves Brad Holmes.

677
00:32:36,358 --> 00:32:39,158
Speaker 1: He's the GM of the Detroit Lions. You know, they

678
00:32:39,198 --> 00:32:42,798
Speaker 1: went to the NFC championship game last year. Last year

679
00:32:42,838 --> 00:32:45,438
Speaker 1: in the draft, in his first four picks and it

680
00:32:45,478 --> 00:32:47,638
Speaker 1: was in the top forty five overall, he took a

681
00:32:47,718 --> 00:32:51,718
Speaker 1: running back, a linebacker, a tight end, and a defensive back.

682
00:32:52,798 --> 00:32:58,038
Speaker 1: And the draft people I'm talking about the critics, ripped

683
00:32:58,118 --> 00:33:02,958
Speaker 1: him for not picking what they call positional value. In

684
00:33:02,998 --> 00:33:05,398
Speaker 1: other words, in the NFL, it's about the quarterback first

685
00:33:05,438 --> 00:33:07,318
Speaker 1: of all, it's about an edge rusher, and it's about

686
00:33:07,318 --> 00:33:10,758
Speaker 1: a tackle to protect a quarterback. So the analytics people

687
00:33:10,958 --> 00:33:16,678
Speaker 1: put value on positions rather than players. NFL, the Tigers

688
00:33:16,718 --> 00:33:20,558
Speaker 1: go to the NFC championship game. His picks all turned

689
00:33:20,558 --> 00:33:24,038
Speaker 1: out really well. So the same thing happened again with Detroit.

690
00:33:24,518 --> 00:33:28,318
Speaker 1: And he had some great lines here because he got

691
00:33:28,398 --> 00:33:34,078
Speaker 1: ripped for not picking positions rather than players. And he said,

692
00:33:34,078 --> 00:33:37,718
Speaker 1: when I got tipped on what positional value was last year,

693
00:33:38,198 --> 00:33:41,038
Speaker 1: I didn't even know what it was. It was just

694
00:33:41,158 --> 00:33:43,998
Speaker 1: like a new analytic. As I thought about it, I

695
00:33:44,078 --> 00:33:48,398
Speaker 1: was like, positional value, so you pick a position, not

696
00:33:48,478 --> 00:33:53,398
Speaker 1: a player. I was thinking, No, we're looking for football players.

697
00:33:54,398 --> 00:33:57,318
Speaker 1: Did you win the draft because you drafted those positions?

698
00:33:57,838 --> 00:34:00,398
Speaker 1: We're trying to draft football players that make us a

699
00:34:00,438 --> 00:34:01,558
Speaker 1: better football team.

700
00:34:02,038 --> 00:34:05,478
Speaker 2: Huge fan. I've never even heard huge fan. I mean,

701
00:34:05,638 --> 00:34:08,638
Speaker 2: oh my god. If you just start basing it based

702
00:34:08,678 --> 00:34:13,078
Speaker 2: on position, and you're going to avoid a player that

703
00:34:13,158 --> 00:34:15,718
Speaker 2: you research and you like him, you like his skills,

704
00:34:15,758 --> 00:34:18,878
Speaker 2: you like how he's going to fit into my group organization,

705
00:34:18,958 --> 00:34:23,638
Speaker 2: into the clubhouse, et cetera, et cetera. Over drafting up position,

706
00:34:24,198 --> 00:34:27,038
Speaker 2: it is a little bit funny. Actually, and again that

707
00:34:27,038 --> 00:34:30,758
Speaker 2: that does sound analytically inclined. I'm so happy that he

708
00:34:30,798 --> 00:34:33,838
Speaker 2: said he never heard about it. That really I am.

709
00:34:34,118 --> 00:34:35,678
Speaker 2: I am now, Well, first of all, I love their

710
00:34:35,958 --> 00:34:39,638
Speaker 2: skipperor cambell. I think he's outstanding. So now I'm officially,

711
00:34:39,838 --> 00:34:44,638
Speaker 2: from this moment forward, an official my secondary team. Well,

712
00:34:44,718 --> 00:34:46,878
Speaker 2: the secondary team is kind of the Jets. I mean,

713
00:34:46,918 --> 00:34:48,998
Speaker 2: I'm a Cardinal Fan born and bred, and of course

714
00:34:49,118 --> 00:34:52,518
Speaker 2: my Buccaneers. But let's go Jets. And now that the

715
00:34:52,678 --> 00:34:56,718
Speaker 2: Lions are on my radar on a weekly basis, I'm serious,

716
00:34:56,718 --> 00:34:58,278
Speaker 2: I'm going to start reading more and more about him

717
00:34:58,278 --> 00:34:59,798
Speaker 2: because I think that's beautiful.

718
00:35:00,638 --> 00:35:02,838
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I love the fact that he wasn't

719
00:35:02,878 --> 00:35:04,838
Speaker 1: even aware of such a thing existed.

720
00:35:04,918 --> 00:35:08,678
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's great. I love Hey. I thought

721
00:35:08,678 --> 00:35:10,638
Speaker 2: you love honesty though. I mean, yes, some guys would

722
00:35:10,638 --> 00:35:12,518
Speaker 2: have like glossed over it at that well, you know,

723
00:35:12,798 --> 00:35:14,078
Speaker 2: but no, he said, and I've never heard of it.

724
00:35:14,438 --> 00:35:17,398
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, and that is press conference. This

725
00:35:17,558 --> 00:35:20,238
Speaker 1: is great. He actually wore a sweatshirt with the words

726
00:35:20,598 --> 00:35:22,478
Speaker 1: positional villain on it.

727
00:35:24,678 --> 00:35:28,398
Speaker 2: He is. I'm went, I went over, thank you, I

728
00:35:28,478 --> 00:35:29,718
Speaker 2: went over. Hey.

729
00:35:29,798 --> 00:35:31,958
Speaker 1: I promise you. We're gonna play a game show and

730
00:35:32,158 --> 00:35:33,918
Speaker 1: it involves the Hall of Fame. We're gonna do that

731
00:35:34,078 --> 00:35:35,918
Speaker 1: right after this. We'll see how good Joe is on

732
00:35:35,998 --> 00:35:50,198
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame. Okay, Joe, it's time to play

733
00:35:50,238 --> 00:35:52,758
Speaker 1: a Hall of Fame game show here. But there's a

734
00:35:52,798 --> 00:35:55,998
Speaker 1: twist to this. We're not talking about the Baseball Hall

735
00:35:56,038 --> 00:35:58,598
Speaker 1: of Fame. We're talking about the Rock and Roll Hall

736
00:35:58,638 --> 00:36:03,878
Speaker 1: of Fame. The new inductees were announced this past week,

737
00:36:04,598 --> 00:36:08,398
Speaker 1: and we've got some interesting names here. I think Foreigner

738
00:36:09,118 --> 00:36:10,918
Speaker 1: is in for the first time. How about that you

739
00:36:10,958 --> 00:36:11,718
Speaker 1: have Foreigner fan?

740
00:36:12,038 --> 00:36:14,238
Speaker 2: Yeah? I listened to them, you know, but I don't

741
00:36:14,318 --> 00:36:15,358
Speaker 2: seek them out right.

742
00:36:15,518 --> 00:36:19,438
Speaker 1: Okay, But what I want to do is, uh, by

743
00:36:19,478 --> 00:36:21,518
Speaker 1: the way, Peter Frampton, you got to be a Peter

744
00:36:21,598 --> 00:36:23,318
Speaker 1: Frampton fan, right, I'm.

745
00:36:23,238 --> 00:36:25,478
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean not one of those guys. I mean

746
00:36:25,518 --> 00:36:28,278
Speaker 2: that that the song that he Wang Wang Wang's you know,

747
00:36:28,398 --> 00:36:29,558
Speaker 2: the different.

748
00:36:29,598 --> 00:36:32,638
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do they call that? Something pedal? Yeah?

749
00:36:32,958 --> 00:36:35,598
Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever that was. Everybody was going nuts over and

750
00:36:35,638 --> 00:36:37,198
Speaker 2: every time I hear it now in the radio, I

751
00:36:37,318 --> 00:36:40,798
Speaker 2: advance it. I really, I've heard enough of that. All right.

752
00:36:40,838 --> 00:36:42,638
Speaker 1: Cool in the Gang okay with them and being.

753
00:36:42,598 --> 00:36:46,278
Speaker 2: A rock yeah yeah, I love Cooling the Gang. Yeah. Right.

754
00:36:46,358 --> 00:36:48,358
Speaker 1: So there were eight new editions. But what I want

755
00:36:48,398 --> 00:36:51,038
Speaker 1: to do is give you some names of artists and

756
00:36:51,158 --> 00:36:52,998
Speaker 1: you tell me whether they're in the Hall of Fame

757
00:36:53,118 --> 00:36:57,078
Speaker 1: or not. Oh wow, okay, sure, all right, let's start

758
00:36:57,158 --> 00:37:01,158
Speaker 1: with Sticks. I'm trying to get right in your wheelhouse

759
00:37:01,198 --> 00:37:03,358
Speaker 1: to some of these seventies and eighties rock and roll bands.

760
00:37:03,598 --> 00:37:06,758
Speaker 2: Stick Sticks Sticks more recently was in the Hall of Fame. Correct, No,

761
00:37:06,958 --> 00:37:09,398
Speaker 2: they're not in, but they were being sought to be

762
00:37:09,438 --> 00:37:10,038
Speaker 2: in the Hall of Fame.

763
00:37:10,398 --> 00:37:13,238
Speaker 1: Yes, they might have been nominated. Okay, okay, how about

764
00:37:13,318 --> 00:37:18,638
Speaker 1: Duran Duran God, I think they are in the Hall

765
00:37:18,678 --> 00:37:19,478
Speaker 1: of Fame or not.

766
00:37:19,678 --> 00:37:21,238
Speaker 2: I think I think they are. They are.

767
00:37:21,318 --> 00:37:22,038
Speaker 1: It's a good call.

768
00:37:22,318 --> 00:37:23,438
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think they are.

769
00:37:23,918 --> 00:37:26,318
Speaker 1: Graham Parsons, I don't even know.

770
00:37:26,558 --> 00:37:27,718
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm the I'm the.

771
00:37:29,038 --> 00:37:33,038
Speaker 1: Parsons right now. All right, let's get back into your wheelhouse, then,

772
00:37:34,038 --> 00:37:38,078
Speaker 1: bad Company. That's not your wheelhouse, bad Company.

773
00:37:38,198 --> 00:37:41,958
Speaker 2: Brother, I am so, I'm honest to God, I'm not

774
00:37:42,078 --> 00:37:44,238
Speaker 2: sure that would be an absolute guess. And I'm saying no,

775
00:37:44,558 --> 00:37:45,918
Speaker 2: you're correct saying no.

776
00:37:46,838 --> 00:37:47,638
Speaker 1: Steppenwolf.

777
00:37:48,318 --> 00:37:52,198
Speaker 2: I love Steppenwolf, now there. I love Steppenwolf. Born to

778
00:37:52,278 --> 00:37:54,238
Speaker 2: Be Wild that was like my that was my thing

779
00:37:54,478 --> 00:37:56,918
Speaker 2: back in the day. You know, Uh, they're not in,

780
00:37:57,078 --> 00:37:58,558
Speaker 2: but they but I love the song.

781
00:37:58,438 --> 00:38:01,598
Speaker 1: They are in. Really Born to Be Wild alone gets

782
00:38:01,638 --> 00:38:04,678
Speaker 1: them in in my book. Okay, okay, all right. How

783
00:38:04,678 --> 00:38:07,958
Speaker 1: about the Canadian band Bachman Turner Overdrive b BTO.

784
00:38:08,278 --> 00:38:12,118
Speaker 2: I love bt O. They should be, yes, but they're not.

785
00:38:12,278 --> 00:38:12,598
Speaker 2: They're not.

786
00:38:12,838 --> 00:38:16,758
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, this was one of my favorites in college,

787
00:38:17,438 --> 00:38:18,758
Speaker 1: the Jay Giles band.

788
00:38:19,118 --> 00:38:22,678
Speaker 2: Yes, Jay Oiles played in Hazeltons Got Lost. We were

789
00:38:23,118 --> 00:38:25,518
Speaker 2: they were at the right They were at Saint Jose

790
00:38:25,638 --> 00:38:29,198
Speaker 2: Jim I can't remember who they were. Black Oak, Arkansas

791
00:38:29,398 --> 00:38:31,678
Speaker 2: and Jay Giles were at the Saint Jose gym right

792
00:38:31,718 --> 00:38:35,238
Speaker 2: down here off of Wyoming Street. And my buddy we

793
00:38:35,318 --> 00:38:37,558
Speaker 2: used to Tommy Cassette, we called him Minora. Ripped off

794
00:38:37,638 --> 00:38:40,238
Speaker 2: the back door of the Saint Joe's gym. We got

795
00:38:40,318 --> 00:38:42,238
Speaker 2: in for free. I can't remember the year it was,

796
00:38:42,358 --> 00:38:43,998
Speaker 2: but Jay Giles was in.

797
00:38:44,558 --> 00:38:46,478
Speaker 1: Not in, not in shooting, not in.

798
00:38:46,678 --> 00:38:48,638
Speaker 2: But we got into Jay Giles because we took the

799
00:38:48,718 --> 00:38:49,078
Speaker 2: door off.

800
00:38:51,918 --> 00:38:53,518
Speaker 1: Uh. Cheap trick.

801
00:38:54,118 --> 00:38:57,118
Speaker 2: Love cheap trick. Remember cheap trick? T Lee? T Lee

802
00:38:57,198 --> 00:39:00,438
Speaker 2: and I Terry League. That was in nineteen seventy nine.

803
00:39:00,918 --> 00:39:01,598
Speaker 1: They were big.

804
00:39:01,958 --> 00:39:05,758
Speaker 2: I love cheap trick. We were playing for the Bakersfield Outlaws.

805
00:39:06,318 --> 00:39:09,718
Speaker 2: I was out of organization, out of a particular organization.

806
00:39:09,838 --> 00:39:12,198
Speaker 2: I was just independent ball at that time in the

807
00:39:12,358 --> 00:39:13,878
Speaker 2: Cal League. And they used to go down to T

808
00:39:14,038 --> 00:39:19,038
Speaker 2: Lee's house in Pismo Beach area, San Luis Obispo. And

809
00:39:19,278 --> 00:39:21,598
Speaker 2: t Lee was a big cheap trick guy, cheap trick,

810
00:39:22,158 --> 00:39:23,718
Speaker 2: and so I got into cheap trick and they got

811
00:39:23,838 --> 00:39:27,238
Speaker 2: to be in. I love cheap trick. They're in. They're outstanding. Yes,

812
00:39:27,878 --> 00:39:29,238
Speaker 2: love cheap trick. Here.

813
00:39:29,398 --> 00:39:32,118
Speaker 1: This got probably another one of your favorites. Deep purple.

814
00:39:32,358 --> 00:39:37,918
Speaker 2: It's my car, am I twenty sixteen, twenty sixteen hellcat

815
00:39:38,718 --> 00:39:42,878
Speaker 2: as plumb crazy with the black stripes down with the

816
00:39:42,918 --> 00:39:46,078
Speaker 2: six speed trimming transmission. I'll tell you what not only fast,

817
00:39:46,158 --> 00:39:48,478
Speaker 2: one of the best cars on the road, just built well.

818
00:39:48,878 --> 00:39:50,798
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm gonna go deep purple and just based

819
00:39:50,838 --> 00:39:51,638
Speaker 2: on the color of my car.

820
00:39:51,998 --> 00:39:53,078
Speaker 1: Good call, good call.

821
00:39:53,158 --> 00:39:53,398
Speaker 2: They're in.

822
00:39:53,558 --> 00:39:56,118
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, meat Loaf.

823
00:39:56,238 --> 00:39:59,878
Speaker 2: That's when that's another wheelhouse. Meat Loaf two out of

824
00:39:59,878 --> 00:40:02,558
Speaker 2: three ain't bad. Every time we want a series two

825
00:40:02,598 --> 00:40:04,158
Speaker 2: out of three, I would say we meet low them.

826
00:40:05,358 --> 00:40:08,398
Speaker 2: Rocky Heart Picture Show was huge when I was uh

827
00:40:08,718 --> 00:40:12,598
Speaker 2: living in Salinas. There was at the theater, the theater

828
00:40:12,638 --> 00:40:15,678
Speaker 2: in downtown Monterey. Everybody sat on a pillow. I think

829
00:40:15,718 --> 00:40:17,198
Speaker 2: it came on at midnight. I don't even know how

830
00:40:17,278 --> 00:40:21,918
Speaker 2: many days in Row played. I loved Me. I loved Me.

831
00:40:22,278 --> 00:40:25,758
Speaker 2: I thought really underrated musically, Lyrically, I'm saying yes.

832
00:40:26,118 --> 00:40:30,998
Speaker 1: They're not in. Can you believe they amazing? Yeah? I

833
00:40:31,238 --> 00:40:33,678
Speaker 1: don't love is not in the rock and roll.

834
00:40:33,558 --> 00:40:34,878
Speaker 2: Hall passion passion.

835
00:40:34,918 --> 00:40:37,558
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the guy was great musicians, I believe.

836
00:40:37,758 --> 00:40:38,998
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all.

837
00:40:38,998 --> 00:40:42,438
Speaker 1: Right, how about Grand Funk Railroad.

838
00:40:42,998 --> 00:40:47,278
Speaker 2: There you go, uh captain, I'm your captain from Lafayette College.

839
00:40:47,318 --> 00:40:51,998
Speaker 2: Three dudes making all that sound? Yeah, I was, Oh god,

840
00:40:52,038 --> 00:40:54,358
Speaker 2: I love Grand Funk Railroad. That was a big part

841
00:40:54,398 --> 00:40:57,358
Speaker 2: of Lofayette. Mark Belly, one of my roomies down there,

842
00:40:57,478 --> 00:40:59,398
Speaker 2: really was into them too. I gotta say, yes, they

843
00:40:59,438 --> 00:41:01,038
Speaker 2: got to be it. I love Grand Funk, they are

844
00:41:01,158 --> 00:41:03,278
Speaker 2: not in. Say we're going to get him in somehow.

845
00:41:03,598 --> 00:41:06,238
Speaker 1: Got to get him in. Robert Palmer.

846
00:41:06,438 --> 00:41:11,798
Speaker 2: Yes, how about that video? Right? Oh, groundbreaking, that's when

847
00:41:12,318 --> 00:41:14,838
Speaker 2: that's when videos are coming out, and he nailed it

848
00:41:14,918 --> 00:41:17,678
Speaker 2: with that. I just think on that video alone, Robert

849
00:41:17,718 --> 00:41:19,718
Speaker 2: Palmer's got to be in the rock and Roll Hall

850
00:41:19,718 --> 00:41:20,078
Speaker 2: of Fame.

851
00:41:20,238 --> 00:41:21,198
Speaker 1: Should be, but he's not.

852
00:41:21,878 --> 00:41:22,998
Speaker 2: At least the girls should be.

853
00:41:23,118 --> 00:41:26,278
Speaker 1: Oh my god, all right, we'll do two more here.

854
00:41:26,518 --> 00:41:28,598
Speaker 2: I'm really bad at this game, but I'm enjoying it.

855
00:41:29,318 --> 00:41:31,358
Speaker 1: The go Gos love her.

856
00:41:31,838 --> 00:41:34,278
Speaker 2: Pull in the Carlisle. I had a chance to catch

857
00:41:34,358 --> 00:41:38,118
Speaker 2: the first pitch from her really at the TRUP one time. Yeah,

858
00:41:38,438 --> 00:41:41,038
Speaker 2: I don't know what I did or couldn't get there,

859
00:41:41,278 --> 00:41:45,758
Speaker 2: where was whatever, but the t with the race. They

860
00:41:45,798 --> 00:41:48,678
Speaker 2: were in town there somehow and she was there and

861
00:41:48,918 --> 00:41:54,118
Speaker 2: I thought she was pretty attractive growing up. I want

862
00:41:54,238 --> 00:41:56,598
Speaker 2: them to be in so badly. Yes, yeah, they're in.

863
00:41:56,758 --> 00:41:58,318
Speaker 1: Good call Okay, yeah, yeah.

864
00:41:59,558 --> 00:42:04,038
Speaker 2: One of my faves the B fifty two. Yes, be

865
00:42:04,198 --> 00:42:06,958
Speaker 2: fifty two's that was love the Beef. I do love,

866
00:42:07,318 --> 00:42:08,638
Speaker 2: but I don't think they're in. But I love them.

867
00:42:08,758 --> 00:42:12,238
Speaker 1: Yeah, you nail that one. We love them, but they're

868
00:42:12,278 --> 00:42:14,518
Speaker 1: not in. That's a lot of bands we got to

869
00:42:14,558 --> 00:42:15,598
Speaker 1: get into the Hall of Fame.

870
00:42:15,718 --> 00:42:19,678
Speaker 2: Joe Dude. That was really you know again, if you

871
00:42:19,798 --> 00:42:23,558
Speaker 2: just go on your own taste buds. So do we

872
00:42:23,638 --> 00:42:25,038
Speaker 2: say Peter Frampton was in or not in?

873
00:42:25,198 --> 00:42:27,918
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's in this year's class twenty twenty four.

874
00:42:27,958 --> 00:42:29,678
Speaker 2: Okay, in this your class? Yeah, I did they know.

875
00:42:29,758 --> 00:42:32,118
Speaker 2: I was listening. I heard that recently. You're right, but no,

876
00:42:32,278 --> 00:42:34,678
Speaker 2: I just I just it's probably a great guy. I

877
00:42:34,718 --> 00:42:37,558
Speaker 2: think he's a great I probably have enjoy having a

878
00:42:37,598 --> 00:42:39,918
Speaker 2: beer with him, But I just the music wise, I

879
00:42:40,198 --> 00:42:41,958
Speaker 2: just it's not one of those things that I would

880
00:42:41,998 --> 00:42:43,838
Speaker 2: put on and want to listen to like over and

881
00:42:43,958 --> 00:42:48,398
Speaker 2: over again. Uh, the universal sound wasn't there for me.

882
00:42:48,798 --> 00:42:51,718
Speaker 2: So that's that's where I dropped off on him.

883
00:42:51,758 --> 00:42:54,198
Speaker 1: By the way he's going in with Share and this

884
00:42:54,398 --> 00:42:54,838
Speaker 1: is really in.

885
00:42:55,238 --> 00:42:56,518
Speaker 2: That's that's real, that's real.

886
00:42:56,598 --> 00:43:00,558
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Share claims, and I don't doubt her that

887
00:43:00,758 --> 00:43:04,798
Speaker 1: in each of the last seven decades she has had

888
00:43:04,838 --> 00:43:07,678
Speaker 1: a number one song, either on her own or with

889
00:43:07,918 --> 00:43:12,078
Speaker 1: of course with Sonny Sonny and Shrif. Seven decades really.

890
00:43:12,278 --> 00:43:15,918
Speaker 1: So she went on the Kelly Clarkson Show last December

891
00:43:16,758 --> 00:43:18,998
Speaker 1: and Kelly Clarkson couldn't believe that she was not yet

892
00:43:19,038 --> 00:43:21,678
Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame. I mean, you talk about

893
00:43:21,878 --> 00:43:27,038
Speaker 1: an incredible career and chare when Kelly Clarkson says, are

894
00:43:27,038 --> 00:43:28,558
Speaker 1: you serious you're not in the Hall of Fame, and

895
00:43:28,718 --> 00:43:31,478
Speaker 1: she says, I wouldn't be in it now if they

896
00:43:31,598 --> 00:43:34,198
Speaker 1: gave me a million dollars that I did read that,

897
00:43:34,558 --> 00:43:38,718
Speaker 1: I'm never going to change my mind. They can just go.

898
00:43:38,998 --> 00:43:40,838
Speaker 2: Ticket you know what themselves.

899
00:43:41,318 --> 00:43:43,638
Speaker 1: How about that? So now we got some drama whether

900
00:43:43,758 --> 00:43:45,678
Speaker 1: Share actually shows up at the Rock and Roll Hall

901
00:43:45,678 --> 00:43:47,238
Speaker 1: of Fame when she's inducted this year.

902
00:43:47,398 --> 00:43:49,638
Speaker 2: That makes me like her even more. I swear it does.

903
00:43:49,838 --> 00:43:53,158
Speaker 2: I mean I've always been a fan, always loved their stuff,

904
00:43:53,478 --> 00:43:56,118
Speaker 2: the Sonny and Share stuff, I Got You Babe in

905
00:43:56,238 --> 00:43:58,758
Speaker 2: the sixties, man, that was you know, it's all the

906
00:43:58,998 --> 00:44:01,478
Speaker 2: visceral component of music when you were younger, because how

907
00:44:01,518 --> 00:44:03,438
Speaker 2: did it make you feel? So when the song comes on,

908
00:44:04,318 --> 00:44:05,718
Speaker 2: it just in the case to me a good time

909
00:44:05,758 --> 00:44:08,078
Speaker 2: in my life. When I hear the Sonny and Share

910
00:44:08,158 --> 00:44:10,718
Speaker 2: stuff and especially I Got You Babe, I've been a

911
00:44:10,758 --> 00:44:14,398
Speaker 2: fan forever. I'm with her. Don't show up, don't let

912
00:44:14,438 --> 00:44:17,198
Speaker 2: them induct you and send somebody else, or have them

913
00:44:17,318 --> 00:44:21,078
Speaker 2: appoint somebody to accept the A word for you. I'm

914
00:44:21,118 --> 00:44:22,758
Speaker 2: on board with Share. I think she's great.

915
00:44:23,118 --> 00:44:25,838
Speaker 1: Music is amazing, isn't it, Joe. I mean, it can

916
00:44:25,958 --> 00:44:28,998
Speaker 1: make you feel a certain way, the way a site

917
00:44:29,158 --> 00:44:32,918
Speaker 1: or a sound can just the song in your head.

918
00:44:33,038 --> 00:44:35,398
Speaker 1: And sometimes I'm sure this happens to you, Joe. You

919
00:44:35,558 --> 00:44:38,238
Speaker 1: hear a song that you haven't heard of in so

920
00:44:38,518 --> 00:44:42,158
Speaker 1: long I'm talking years, maybe decades, and the lyrics come

921
00:44:42,278 --> 00:44:45,678
Speaker 1: back to you immediately, right. It's just fascinating the way

922
00:44:45,958 --> 00:44:47,478
Speaker 1: it just wraps around your brain.

923
00:44:47,758 --> 00:44:50,118
Speaker 2: And again the short, long and short term memory. More

924
00:44:50,318 --> 00:44:52,678
Speaker 2: like the newer songs. I mean, there are newer songs

925
00:44:52,718 --> 00:44:55,278
Speaker 2: that I will like, but not to the extent that

926
00:44:55,918 --> 00:44:58,358
Speaker 2: the stuff that we grew up with that's embedded, like

927
00:44:58,438 --> 00:45:01,358
Speaker 2: you said in our Minor Psyche and the visceral component.

928
00:45:01,438 --> 00:45:03,238
Speaker 2: I'm really big on that. I mean, because I didn't

929
00:45:03,238 --> 00:45:05,078
Speaker 2: know words, and I was a kid, I didn't listen

930
00:45:05,518 --> 00:45:07,718
Speaker 2: well enough. I mean I could go back to Satisfaction

931
00:45:07,878 --> 00:45:09,998
Speaker 2: by the Stones, and of course I knew the words

932
00:45:10,078 --> 00:45:13,878
Speaker 2: to that, but Simon and Garfuncle, they made a a

933
00:45:14,158 --> 00:45:17,718
Speaker 2: verbal impact on me. Words mattered with Simon and Garfunkle.

934
00:45:18,678 --> 00:45:20,318
Speaker 2: The Halies a little bit, I love. I mean, I

935
00:45:20,398 --> 00:45:24,238
Speaker 2: thought the Hollies were very underrated. None cool woman in

936
00:45:24,318 --> 00:45:26,398
Speaker 2: a black dress. God, that's one of the best beginnings

937
00:45:26,398 --> 00:45:29,918
Speaker 2: of the song ever. But then I be ain't heavy

938
00:45:29,998 --> 00:45:32,958
Speaker 2: for my brother. I mean stuff like that a combination

939
00:45:33,278 --> 00:45:34,998
Speaker 2: with some of them, with the lyrics and the sound.

940
00:45:34,998 --> 00:45:37,398
Speaker 2: But primarily in the sixties I thought it was more visceral,

941
00:45:37,718 --> 00:45:42,758
Speaker 2: and the seventies I became a little bit more intelligent

942
00:45:42,798 --> 00:45:44,678
Speaker 2: and was able to listen to words and process them.

943
00:45:45,198 --> 00:45:47,718
Speaker 2: But I mean the sound of the sixties to me, really,

944
00:45:48,318 --> 00:45:50,758
Speaker 2: I don't think there's a song. If I hear it

945
00:45:51,318 --> 00:45:53,518
Speaker 2: that I remember from back in the day, always makes

946
00:45:53,598 --> 00:45:55,998
Speaker 2: me feel good because it was such I had such

947
00:45:56,198 --> 00:45:58,638
Speaker 2: a wonderful time growing up in this area in Pennsylvania.

948
00:45:59,198 --> 00:46:01,998
Speaker 1: Especially if you hear it again on vinyl, right.

949
00:46:02,118 --> 00:46:04,438
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that I got it. I got the

950
00:46:04,558 --> 00:46:06,758
Speaker 2: vinyl women to set it up on this new room's done.

951
00:46:06,798 --> 00:46:10,158
Speaker 2: We're gonna have the vinyl, big, big old speakers blaring

952
00:46:10,198 --> 00:46:12,918
Speaker 2: out the back. Man, I'm gonna have you come around

953
00:46:12,998 --> 00:46:15,358
Speaker 2: my place during the summertime. You're gonna hear my place too.

954
00:46:16,318 --> 00:46:16,878
Speaker 2: I love it.

955
00:46:17,358 --> 00:46:19,758
Speaker 1: I love it well, Joe. You always do a great

956
00:46:19,878 --> 00:46:22,678
Speaker 1: job taking us home and following up by the way,

957
00:46:22,718 --> 00:46:24,718
Speaker 1: you did really well on that, better than I thought.

958
00:46:24,758 --> 00:46:26,558
Speaker 1: It's so hard with the Rock and Roll Hall of

959
00:46:26,638 --> 00:46:30,758
Speaker 1: Fame because they've really diversified. Obviously, it's not just rock

960
00:46:30,798 --> 00:46:33,238
Speaker 1: and roll in terms of the artistry that's going in there,

961
00:46:33,358 --> 00:46:35,118
Speaker 1: so it's not an easy call. I thought you did

962
00:46:35,238 --> 00:46:38,598
Speaker 1: really well, and you followed your heart for the most

963
00:46:38,638 --> 00:46:40,198
Speaker 1: part when it came to some of these bands. I

964
00:46:40,278 --> 00:46:41,118
Speaker 1: did nothing wrong with that.

965
00:46:41,558 --> 00:46:44,998
Speaker 2: I never And then it speaks to our quote of

966
00:46:45,038 --> 00:46:47,238
Speaker 2: the day, And actually I guess the quote was designed

967
00:46:47,278 --> 00:46:50,838
Speaker 2: for this and of all people come from Ralph Waldo Emerson.

968
00:46:50,878 --> 00:46:53,998
Speaker 2: But I think to be yourself in a world that

969
00:46:54,158 --> 00:46:57,238
Speaker 2: is constantly trying to make you something else is the

970
00:46:57,358 --> 00:47:02,278
Speaker 2: greatest accomplishment and share. Oh right, g gez. She has

971
00:47:02,278 --> 00:47:05,638
Speaker 2: always been herself. All these all these rock and roll icons,

972
00:47:05,718 --> 00:47:10,398
Speaker 2: they've always been themselves. I mean that was my kind

973
00:47:10,438 --> 00:47:12,558
Speaker 2: of my thought to myself as a kid growing up

974
00:47:12,998 --> 00:47:16,878
Speaker 2: that I was I was not going to reform. How

975
00:47:16,918 --> 00:47:19,318
Speaker 2: do I can't remember exactly how I said this to myself.

976
00:47:19,358 --> 00:47:22,158
Speaker 2: Wish I could, But during the sixties and the seventies,

977
00:47:22,238 --> 00:47:24,318
Speaker 2: I wanted always to adhere to what I believed in.

978
00:47:24,798 --> 00:47:26,758
Speaker 2: My dad wanted me to cut my hair. I did

979
00:47:26,838 --> 00:47:29,118
Speaker 2: not want to cut my hair. You know. They wanted

980
00:47:29,118 --> 00:47:30,518
Speaker 2: me to dress a certain way, did not want to

981
00:47:30,598 --> 00:47:32,078
Speaker 2: dress a certain way. I wanted to dress the way

982
00:47:32,158 --> 00:47:36,078
Speaker 2: I wanted to dress. That's why I was so adamant

983
00:47:36,118 --> 00:47:38,838
Speaker 2: about when I became a major league manager, about dress

984
00:47:38,918 --> 00:47:42,718
Speaker 2: codes and who's why is a collared shirt so more

985
00:47:42,758 --> 00:47:45,958
Speaker 2: acceptable than a non collared shirt? Why is polyester pants

986
00:47:46,038 --> 00:47:49,558
Speaker 2: better than jeans? I mean all these things. Really, I

987
00:47:49,998 --> 00:47:52,598
Speaker 2: was a non conformist and a conforming society. That was

988
00:47:52,678 --> 00:47:55,518
Speaker 2: my line to myself in the seventies. And I wasn't,

989
00:47:55,558 --> 00:47:59,118
Speaker 2: by any means any kind of a rebel, I don't think,

990
00:47:59,198 --> 00:48:02,878
Speaker 2: but maybe in certain ways I was. But I definitely

991
00:48:03,038 --> 00:48:06,118
Speaker 2: always adhere to what I thought was the right thing

992
00:48:06,278 --> 00:48:09,958
Speaker 2: to do, regardless of the popular opinion of the day.

993
00:48:09,958 --> 00:48:12,118
Speaker 2: And I still think that is true. So I think

994
00:48:12,278 --> 00:48:17,238
Speaker 2: in some ways, trying to make to be yourself in

995
00:48:17,278 --> 00:48:18,998
Speaker 2: a word that is constantly trying to make you something

996
00:48:19,038 --> 00:48:22,278
Speaker 2: else from Ralph Waldo Emerson really resonated for me, and

997
00:48:22,438 --> 00:48:25,798
Speaker 2: I think I've always applied that to myself and to

998
00:48:25,918 --> 00:48:29,358
Speaker 2: today's artists and athletes, and to the GM of the

999
00:48:29,478 --> 00:48:32,278
Speaker 2: Detroit Lions. What's his name? One more time, Brad Holmes.

1000
00:48:32,718 --> 00:48:34,558
Speaker 2: Well done, Brad, I can't wait to meet you.

1001
00:48:34,998 --> 00:48:36,878
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so well said, by the way. I love

1002
00:48:36,958 --> 00:48:39,358
Speaker 1: that quote from Ralph Waldo, our buddy.

1003
00:48:39,518 --> 00:48:39,718
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1004
00:48:40,238 --> 00:48:43,478
Speaker 1: Yeah, Because I tell a young people, especially all the time,

1005
00:48:43,558 --> 00:48:46,518
Speaker 1: when there's that pressure to conform, right, you look around

1006
00:48:46,598 --> 00:48:49,958
Speaker 1: you and you want to fit in rather than honor

1007
00:48:50,118 --> 00:48:53,038
Speaker 1: your true self. If you look around you want to

1008
00:48:53,118 --> 00:48:55,158
Speaker 1: be like the people around you. That's a good way

1009
00:48:55,238 --> 00:48:59,398
Speaker 1: to become average, you really will be average. If that's

1010
00:48:59,438 --> 00:49:01,278
Speaker 1: what you want to be, then go ahead and conform.

1011
00:49:01,438 --> 00:49:03,238
Speaker 1: I don't think any of us should be average, because

1012
00:49:03,238 --> 00:49:06,038
Speaker 1: there's a better part within us. And it reminds me

1013
00:49:06,158 --> 00:49:08,758
Speaker 1: of what Vince Scully once told me. The best advice

1014
00:49:08,798 --> 00:49:10,558
Speaker 1: he had was early in his career, and it came

1015
00:49:10,598 --> 00:49:12,438
Speaker 1: from Red Barber. I mean it was better than Red

1016
00:49:12,478 --> 00:49:16,198
Speaker 1: Barber at that time, and he talked about avoid trying

1017
00:49:16,278 --> 00:49:19,558
Speaker 1: to copy other people's style because when you do that,

1018
00:49:19,918 --> 00:49:22,478
Speaker 1: you water your own wine. And it was a way

1019
00:49:22,478 --> 00:49:25,318
Speaker 1: of Red Barber telling Vince Scully, you know, the best

1020
00:49:25,438 --> 00:49:28,678
Speaker 1: version of you lies within you, it doesn't lie within others.

1021
00:49:28,758 --> 00:49:31,118
Speaker 1: Can you learn from others, of course you can, But

1022
00:49:31,238 --> 00:49:33,798
Speaker 1: in trying to copy others and be others, you're going

1023
00:49:33,838 --> 00:49:36,238
Speaker 1: to miss out on your true self. And so I

1024
00:49:36,358 --> 00:49:39,038
Speaker 1: love that quote, Joe. I think it applies to really

1025
00:49:39,118 --> 00:49:40,958
Speaker 1: anybody across the board, no matter what you do.

1026
00:49:41,318 --> 00:49:44,238
Speaker 2: And organizations, right, I mean, you're just we're just talking

1027
00:49:44,278 --> 00:49:47,838
Speaker 2: about that in another way. But this copycat world, I

1028
00:49:47,878 --> 00:49:50,478
Speaker 2: don't quite understand it. And a lot of the I

1029
00:49:50,558 --> 00:49:55,278
Speaker 2: think copycat copy catedness is the residue of really not

1030
00:49:55,478 --> 00:49:59,478
Speaker 2: going out there and suffering through mistakes and having to

1031
00:49:59,558 --> 00:50:02,638
Speaker 2: work for an opportunity and having things just presented to

1032
00:50:02,718 --> 00:50:04,878
Speaker 2: you because you don't really know what you think. You

1033
00:50:04,998 --> 00:50:06,958
Speaker 2: have to find out what you think through trial and error.

1034
00:50:07,398 --> 00:50:09,918
Speaker 2: And I really believe that. I believe things are handed

1035
00:50:09,958 --> 00:50:14,198
Speaker 2: out too easily, things aren't necessarily earned. And with that,

1036
00:50:14,998 --> 00:50:20,078
Speaker 2: there's this group that needs to look at somebody else

1037
00:50:20,118 --> 00:50:22,318
Speaker 2: in order to find their way, whereas opposed to looking

1038
00:50:22,398 --> 00:50:25,438
Speaker 2: from within. And that's the part to me that this

1039
00:50:25,518 --> 00:50:28,918
Speaker 2: bothers him sometime, and those that do, God do I

1040
00:50:29,038 --> 00:50:29,278
Speaker 2: love that.

1041
00:50:29,798 --> 00:50:32,678
Speaker 1: Yeah, that brings us back to Jackson holiday failing the

1042
00:50:32,718 --> 00:50:34,598
Speaker 1: way he has for the first time. He'll be a

1043
00:50:34,638 --> 00:50:35,638
Speaker 1: better player because of that.

1044
00:50:35,918 --> 00:50:36,318
Speaker 2: I agreed.

1045
00:50:37,198 --> 00:50:38,878
Speaker 1: That was fine, Joe. We'll see you next time.

1046
00:50:39,238 --> 00:50:39,758
Speaker 2: Thanks brother.

1047
00:50:50,078 --> 00:50:53,278
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1048
00:50:53,518 --> 00:50:57,318
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1049
00:50:57,438 --> 00:51:00,358
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.