WEBVTT - Put Nipples Back On Barbies (feat. Trixie Mattel) 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:05.040 Madonna. I know you listen to every episode of this 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:08.280 podcast and you heard it from Trix and Mattel. She 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:09.960 wants like a virgin Barbie. 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:12.039 No, you know, if she does it, she's gonna push 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:13.840 through like a ray of light Barbie, and we're gonna 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.240 get blue jeans and like like a Hotten shirt. Kabala Barbie. 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:17.840 I want that. 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:25.000 She's sheen am me, no me, not my name? Yo 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:33.440 yo yo? What is your childhood trauma? I have coo. 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:36.080 You know what's going down the floor like. 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:49.280 Round Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:55.000 give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I am Ra's Damu 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:57.960 and I am fran to Rota Virgins. You know you 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:01.520 will have heard our patch from Fire Island in our 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.480 episode last week. Also, if you're a patron patroon dot 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.000 com slash like a Virgin, you will have heard our 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:14.720 annual Fire Island episode. But our vacation is over. It's 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:18.120 back to real life. I had a great time. I 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:20.640 think you did as well. Fran Oh for sure. 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.399 I mean I still feel like my body is like 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:26.600 catching up with all the things that I put it through. 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:27.800 During that week. 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.120 Like honestly, vacation can be like I'm not going to 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.200 say exhausting, but like it's definitely like your body is 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:38.000 operating at a different level, taking in a different number 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:38.920 of drugs. 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.640 Yeah, I and in the sun all day. 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.560 Yeah, that was really the thing that got me the day. 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.520 The day we got back, I needed just a reset 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:54.240 day and I did like an intense body cleanse, skincare, routine, 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.400 hair washing, and like afterwards, laying on my couch, I 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:02.200 just felt fried, like both both physically because I got 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:06.400 a lot of sun and mentally like even though literally 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:10.839 all we were doing was laying around and relaxing, I 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:16.720 needed a day to sort of get back to I 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.560 needed to bring me to life, as Amy Lee said 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.480 on the emin Essence debut album. And then the next 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.400 day was my birthday. Yes that's right, Virgins, I am 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:27.880 now thirty five years old. 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.960 Yes, and you celebrated by going to the place that 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:35.400 Carrie Bradshaw went to on her exact thirty fifth birthday, 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.760 which was a very mediocre Italian restaurant. 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:43.000 It was really it was actually bad, Like my entree 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.880 was bad. My entree was bad because I didn't realize 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.520 I thought that I was ordering a pasta that had 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.440 spinach in it, and instead what I ordered was a 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:59.760 pasta that substituted spinach for noodles. No, it was fine. 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.040 It was not about the food. It was about the vibes, 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.880 and it was not about the food. No. But it 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:09.040 was a very lovely birthday dinner. And actually this was 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.040 one of the best birthdays I've had in years, I 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:17.760 think mostly mostly because I approached it very much as 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.400 just another day. I worked during the day, I went 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.240 to the gym, I did very ordinary things. I went 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.440 to a bookstore and ran into a lovely virgin who 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.160 gave me a great discount and picked up a bunch 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.520 of new books. And then I had a wonderful meal 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:36.120 with my nearest and dearest, wearing I have to say, 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.080 a pretty sickening outfit. There was a great day. 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.720 We love that your outfit was incredible. Yeah, it was 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.360 cordial and it was simple, and that's exactly what you 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:51.480 need out of a birthday gathering. I feel like, you know, yeah, 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.400 the food, the food you we said, was like kind 0:03:55.480 --> 0:04:01.680 of it was olive garden territory SERTs I thought were phenomenal. 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.720 The desserts were great. I love a tartufo. I hadn't 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.280 had forever. It was so good, and I think everyone 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:09.119 else I think I don't think anyone else had had 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.880 tartufo at that table, so it did gag them a bit. 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.120 For anyone who wants to know, we went to Il Cantonore, 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.200 which is if you remember the season four episode of 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.880 Sex and the City, The Agony and the Ecstasy. It's 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.279 the restaurant where Carry goes for her birthday dinner and 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.680 none of her friends show up and she has to 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:28.719 pay for her own birthday cake. The woman with the 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:32.360 birthday cake is here and she needs a bebate and 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.880 my friends did show up and it was lovely. We 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.960 had a great time and I also had sex that 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:42.880 night when I got home, and it was fabulous birthday. 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.919 It was really a perfect birthday. Was it was it with? Well? 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:48.760 Was it with Recurring the World? 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.680 If that's all we're going to say, that's all we're 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:54.479 going to say. The rest is for the Patreon divas. No, 0:04:54.600 --> 0:05:00.800 the rest is for not people who listen to this podcast. Sorry, 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:02.800 but you know what we will talk about is the 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.640 fact that no is the fact that Taylor Swift released 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:14.359 Speak Now Taylor's version I am a little over the 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:19.640 Taylor's versions, I have to say, and I really felt 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.039 the fatigue with this one because I think I mean 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.320 a I didn't listen to it for basically a whole 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.360 week because we were not featuring it on Fire Island. No, 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:29.320 not to the. 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.560 Vibe we tried and then switched to just contemporary tailor 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:34.040 and Taylor's. 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:39.159 It just I think we've lost the plot in a way, 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:43.760 which is that the actual point of these albums is 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.960 to literally re record the existing music in such a 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:54.960 way that it replaces the old Scooter's versions. And yes, 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.599 we get the new tracks and everything, and you know, 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.599 some of the ones on this album are good, but 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.280 it just sounds so much like the original that I'm like, 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:05.839 what is the point? 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.400 And the bonus tracks, which like Hayley Williams and fallow 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:13.880 Way are amazing features to have on the bonus tracks, Sorry, 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.440 didn't really do it for me. I think the only 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:20.400 song that I will return to is I See You, 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.719 which was on the original or no, is that a 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:24.440 bonus track? 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.440 But that's the bonus track? Yeah? I thought that she 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.440 made the music video the stupidest music video ever for. 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:32.440 I loved that bonus track. I thought it was. 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:35.880 It's a good song, yeah, but no, I don't know. 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:40.680 I godspeed to everyone going to the Eras tour. Peyton 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.240 just went like seems like she actually I feel like 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.719 everyone we know was like at the Denver show for Eras, 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.760 Rose is still looking for tickets though, no, I'm You're like, 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:52.560 I'm not anymore. 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:56.279 I'm not. I'm seeing Beyonce next week. I'm good, love, enjoy. 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.600 I only have one big summer concert in me, and 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.080 that is the one I have been listening to speak 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:08.440 now Taylor's version, but I could just as easily listen 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:13.760 to Scooter's version and like be fine. 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:16.240 I mean, yeah, I have I feel like I'm all 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.480 listened out, like I have so much music. 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.240 It's just this shtick is getting old. 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.720 Yeah, and I don't want to listen to Reputation Taylor's version, 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:29.760 like that's gonna be bizarre? No, no, no, no. What 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.080 if she did all acoustic, Like how is she going 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:32.240 to do? 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:36.360 That would be fab That would fab if like ras like, yeah, 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:40.040 an acoustic version of a reputation would be fabulous because 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:44.320 it would be different instead of just being a copy 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:45.360 paste of the music. 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:48.720 I have a question y as a as someone who's 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:51.239 a little more of a tailor scholar than I am. 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.720 I feel like she said maybe in her documentary that 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:58.400 reputation was kind of like an era that she regrets 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:01.240 a little bit. Is that she said something like that before. 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:02.680 I feel like she's talked about how it was like 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.480 a really dark time and how she felt like reputation 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:09.760 was in reaction to or retaliation against something instead of 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:10.640 like actual art. 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.200 I mean it was a reaction to the way she 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:18.080 was talked about post you know, like being quote unquote 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.960 exposed by Kim Kardashian and like the Kanye West of 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.320 it all. I don't know if she's ever said anything 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.640 about regretting it. I certainly don't regret it. Reputation is 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:28.000 one of my favorite Taylor albums. 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.920 Yeah, yeah, it's not. It's at the bottom of my list. 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.680 So but I, you know, whatever Taylor's version is gonna 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:36.920 look like, I'm here for it. 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:40.480 Speaking of Taylor and tunes, a lot of Taylor's music 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.400 was featured in the trailer for the second season of 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:48.360 The Summer I turned pretty Actually, Ryan when the trailer 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.280 dropped thought it was a short film that she had 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:54.040 made because he had no context for the show. The 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.240 first three episodes dropped on Amazon on Friday, and I 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.000 watched them all this weekend. And you know, I famously 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:04.680 don't love YA because I don't believe teenagers are real people. 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:12.280 But this is very compelling YA soap opera and there 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:14.200 is a lot of Taylor shot music featured in it. 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:19.400 So if you're looking for a very like no thoughts 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:24.840 had empty summer show to watch, that is a perfect one. 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:28.920 I'm not going to watch it, but it does sound 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:29.480 is it kind of? 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.200 I was talking to the Virgins, I know, I. 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:33.960 Was just saying, for the record, is it like a 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:36.760 kind of to all the boys I've loved before? 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.880 Coded? It's yeah, Well it's written. The book that it's 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.440 based onst written by Jenny Hahn, who wrote to All 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:48.439 the Boys. It's love Triangle, a girlye who is in 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:54.840 uh like, caught between two brothers. Brother. Yes, there's also 0:09:55.679 --> 0:10:00.320 they're dealing with grief because the brother's mom died. It's yeah, 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.400 it's it's very good. Okay, Okay. 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.320 You know what I finished this weekend, which I don't 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:07.760 think you finished, was the other two? 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:12.960 Did you did you finish that? No? I watched two 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.440 and a half seasons of it in the span of 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:19.440 a week, and then got that midway through season three 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.800 and was like, no, I don't want to watch this anymore. 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:22.360 It's bad. 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.280 The I will agree that a lot of the latter 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.720 half of season three is as you put it, ass 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:33.280 and I felt it, and I felt like the finale, 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.320 especially was a whole lot of assery, Like, I, so 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.160 how does it end? I'm not I skim skipped through 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.160 a lot of it. The show, especially in its finale, 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:48.560 decided to completely change genres and become a drama, a 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:56.679 like thoughtful, emotional, like personal journey drama about the moralistic 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.600 arc of these two characters and how they can reconcile 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:03.440 their misery and become like, I don't know, like people again, 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.040 and they get there. The redemptions are the redemption arcs 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:11.040 are really lovely, like they work fine, but the way 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:15.120 it's shot is totally completely different, And I feel like 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.600 the showrunner was maybe trying to do something that was 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:23.840 like profound and brilliant, but the way that the main 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.199 gay guy was portrayed and all of the internal struggle 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:31.040 that he went through about which was like obsessing over fame, 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.800 like getting overly involved with like the industry and like 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.319 and like you know, excommunicating all of his friends and 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.080 loved ones as a product of that. It feels like 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.880 something that the showrunner actually went through, and it felt 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:48.160 so transparently, something that the writer needed to just get 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:52.559 off of his chest to a degree that felt like Bros. 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:54.920 Coded Like it was like that scene in Bros. Where 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.720 Billy Eigner has that long monologue to the to the 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.960 his like kind of boo on the beach, talking about 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:02.880 like how people don't understand him, and I was like, 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.560 that's like lovely, but also like this is we know, 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:06.080 this is you. 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.559 That's such a That's not the ending I would expect 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.120 have expected the show to have. I actually feel like 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:16.480 it would be much truer to the show and the 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.520 characters to not redeem them and to instead maybe give 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:25.120 them some kind of come upance. Yeah for being horrible people. 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:30.760 Yeah yeah, I mean they definitely got punished for their actions, 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:34.480 which is nice. But no, I don't know. The show 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.200 is so like if Virgins ever wanted to watch it. 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.720 The first two seasons are amazing, some of the second 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.439 season is not great, and there are some episodes of 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.199 the third season that are so genius, so laugh out 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:51.560 loud funny, so much insider baseball like stuff that is 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.800 like relevant to like queer people, especially like gay people 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.800 that exist in media and consume gay media. Oh so 0:12:58.960 --> 0:12:59.560 fucking funny. 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.720 And well you loved you loved that Aid's Play episode. 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.080 Which I did not. I did not think was that. 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.840 There was a spoof of The Inheritance that was fucking hilarious. 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.920 I thought, featuring Lucas Gage. I also thought the muliu 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.240 A bit was so funny. 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.680 Well, I did like that Simulio talked about eating Molly 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:21.520 shan It's pussy a lot. But other than that, I'm 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:23.320 never going to watch the rest of the other two 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.120 because I'm too busy reading gay monster porn. 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:29.840 Okay say more please. 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:35.920 So I have been book Corner. This is Roses Book Corner, 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.680 which actually if you want to hear if you want 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:46.000 to hear me talk at length about books, you can 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.480 go on Patreon, Patreon dot com, slash like a Virgin 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.120 and that is the official home of Roses Book Corner. 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:57.800 But I have been reading a lot recently. I read 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.600 four books while we were on vacation. I'm on fire 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:05.360 right now and I've been reading a lot of lit thick, 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:14.679 so I needed a mindless you know, palette cleanser. And 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.040 as as virgins will know, I love a codpiece ripper, 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:23.440 which is our terminology for gay historical romance. What I 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:30.240 never have ventured into is gay is gay monster fucking 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:36.400 book tentacle ripper. Tentacle ripper maybe like eggsack ripper. 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:37.840 Not eggsac. 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.840 I have yet to encounter of sexy eggsac in these books, 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.960 but it could happen. So, based off of a TikTok recommendation, 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:51.000 I downloaded onto my kindle a book called Soul Eater 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:55.200 by an author named Lily Maine, and it is set 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:59.120 in a post apocalyptic America that is overrun by monsters 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.160 and the main care is a soldier at a military 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.240 base who studies monsters and they bring in like this 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:10.600 scary monster named Win, the soul Eater, who is like 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.520 in He's like super tall, his like grayskin and has 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.680 a hood so you can't see his face with there's 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:20.000 horns sticking out of it. And the monster like takes 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:21.920 a liking to him, and they end up escaping the 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:27.080 facility and they start fucking and fall in love and 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.480 he loves not to make it all about his genitals, 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.920 but but it's about his let's talk about his genitals. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:41.520 So he has a slit where a penis would be. Oh, 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.960 and then when he gets aroused, a penis comes out 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.080 of the sort just like a shape of water. And 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:53.080 when and they're they're flip fucking. So when the when 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.160 the soldier wants to fuck him, he fucks the slit 0:15:56.400 --> 0:16:01.000 like under the penis, so that basically like the penises 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:05.640 are like together in the whole. And this is great. 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.920 It honestly is like really hot and fun and actually 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:15.280 like a good story, like with well drawn characters. 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:16.880 I support you. I support this. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:21.520 I started reading this the first book last yesterday evening 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.440 around like five pm, and finished it this morning, and 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.080 then immediately started the second one. And there's I believe 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.160 seven in the series. So this is my new journey, 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:38.800 is reading a month porn. It is soul eater, soul sucker, 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:44.160 so there is definitely a lot of sucking going. 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.840 On into it. Slash you should write one of those, 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:48.280 slash you should adapt. 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:52.080 I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking I need to maybe 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:56.400 start writing some porn. I actually am feeling very creatively 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:00.680 repped up right now from everything I've been reading, I read. 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:02.800 As I said, I read a bunch of books on vacation, 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.960 and maybe, like I'll go more in depth into them 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:09.720 on the Patreon at some point, but just to like 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.560 quickly talk about them. My favorite book that I read 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.440 while we were on vacation is Vladimir by Julia May Jonas, 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:20.840 which is about a professor at a liberal arts college 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:23.800 in upstate New York whose husband has been accused by 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.359 several women of sexual misconduct, and as that's happening, a 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.760 young professor comes to the school and she becomes totally 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:35.719 obsessed with him. It's a really sharp and incredibly written 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:41.280 takedown of like me too culture and wokeness and academia, 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:43.119 and it's like one of my favorite things that I've 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.199 read in such a long time. The voice is just 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.400 so perfect. I also read We Could Be So Good 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.760 by Kat Sebastian, which is a codpiece ripper about two 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.800 newspaper reporters in nineteen fifties New York City who fall 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.000 in love. I thought it was very sweet and I 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.960 really like to see their love story. And then I 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:03.439 read The Guest by Emma Kline, which is sort of 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:06.000 the like hot Girl book of the Summer. It's got 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.399 a very like saturated cover. 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.840 We know what the cover looks like. And it's about 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:12.520 a sex. 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:19.160 Worker who is dating this man and staying with him 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.720 in his beach house and like probably the hamp Dens, 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.119 and he kicks her out, and so she has to 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:28.600 spend a couple of days just sort of going around 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.359 trying to like glom onto any man she can find. 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:36.200 And it's it's a really great character study. She makes 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.760 like bad decision after bad decision, and it's like you're 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:42.560 just like reading it screaming at her. And it's really 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.240 well done up until the ending, which was one of 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.720 the most disappointing endings of a book I read in 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.520 a very long time. It really needed like another chapter 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.119 or an epilogue or something. It was just so disappointing. 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.719 It was like it just like crashed off a cliff. 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:01.679 And then the fourth book I read was like a 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:03.919 codpiece of report that is not worth talking about. It 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:09.680 was aggressively fine. But I am going to Florida this 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:11.800 week to visit my family, so I'm sure I'll be 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:15.560 doing a lot of reading while i'm there, and you know, 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:19.199 stay tuned if you want more recommendations. Well, we have 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.800 a very exciting episode today. This is a long time coming, 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:25.320 both in terms of the fact that this movie has 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.000 been promoted forever. Barbie the Doll has existed for a 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.720 very long time, and we recorded this episode months ago. 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.480 But we have Trixy Mattel on the podcast today talking 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:39.520 all things Barbie. Yes, and we have to say, just 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.720 because we are who we are, we are in support 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:43.879 with this strike. 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.320 Okay, SAG hello is striking. 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:48.040 This is huge. 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.280 All of the videos we're seeing a fran dresser are amazing, 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.240 even though she's kind of an anti vaxxer, but she's amazing. 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.720 And this is not promotion for the movie Barbie. This 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:01.000 is a historicization of Barbie as an idyl and icon. 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:06.080 Ok Yes. And we will probably behind the scenes be 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.359 figuring out how we are going to approach talking about 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:15.000 new media in the wake of SAG and the W 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:19.280 A G A both being on strike. So this is evolving. 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.960 We're still figuring it out. But no scabs on this podcast. 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.159 No scabs, no thank you. 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.320 This is a tricksy is a long time coming as 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:33.000 a guest, iconic iconic, So let's let's do it. 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.359 This episode is about and for the dolls. 0:20:35.880 --> 0:21:04.480 That's right, pre Barbie movie, pre social media, pre like 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:07.919 I don't know, Jeremy Scott's boardby collection, pre all that stuff. 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:10.480 I just I wanted to I wanted my zippers to 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:12.280 be this big compared to my body, you know what 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.560 I mean, even proportionally. I wanted to be a tiny 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:19.480 plastic thing. And I think it was like a maybe mentally, 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.600 it was like an escape route from the human experience. 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:24.720 It's like what if I also just had no thoughts, 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:26.919 you know, like what if I also had. 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:28.240 What if my head was squishy too? 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.560 Yeah, I was squish my head. What if my knees 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:36.159 you know, snapped? And then when I started like I 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:38.639 guess I got the cart before the horse, and like 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:40.600 in my later twenties, I started being like, well, I 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:44.159 take all this inspiration from America's favorite fashion doll, but 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:46.679 what do I really know about it? And then for 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.800 like a good year, I pretty much read every nonfiction 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:54.320 book about Mattel and Barbie that is in existence, everything 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.920 from the biography and autobiography of Ruth Handler to studies 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:01.680 about child development to the history of Barbie. And I'm 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:03.840 probably mentally ill and so when I get focused on 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:07.920 something I really like, hit record and learn everything about 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:11.840 it very quickly. And so now I just like, I mean, 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:13.840 I really know everything about Barbie. I think I know 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:15.760 everything there is to know. So what do you want 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:17.480 to know? That's why we brought you on. 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:21.040 Now we're going to test your knowledge. No, we're not 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:25.919 here to getcha, but I am really interested to get 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:31.080 maybe like, why do you think Barbie was so groundbreaking 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:33.800 as a toy and why has she endured the way 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:34.640 she has. 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:39.080 Well, there's a few reasons. Right, number one first of 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:41.760 its kind. Right until Barbie came along in nineteen fifty nine, 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:44.480 little girls were encouraged to pretend to be moms. That's it. 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:47.120 All dolls were babies. So that's like the number one. 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:49.719 This is the first toy that had women imagining they 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:53.120 could be nurses or flight attendants or doctors or like anything. 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:55.520 Not to mention you have to imagine in nineteen fifty 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:58.560 nine a toy to have breasts and no husband and 0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:00.840 have her own apartment and be a mo which means 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:05.400 she has her own income. Extremely scandalous, Like it's basically 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:09.199 a porn toy for children at the time. Yeah, but 0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:14.439 this was at a time where a woman's second biggest 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:17.480 fear is that her daughter's going to be like overdeveloped 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:21.720 and slutty and like too independent. Her number one fear 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:24.479 is that she's going to be ungroomed and unmarriable because 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:27.400 a husband was a meal ticket. So even women who 0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:28.960 are a little conservative is like, well, if I get 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:31.360 my daughter this doll, maybe she'll become interested in styling 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:34.600 her hair and dressing herself. Like it was a way 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:38.119 for women to communicate like, hey, I want you to 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:41.440 be comfortable in your life, and if you want that, 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:44.080 this is the template. Like this will get you fed, 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:46.600 this will get you a house. Like that was sort 0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:50.760 of the communication there under the surface. And so that's 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:53.600 the number one reason I think that that that's turned 0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:57.919 into now every adult has a Barbie memory, and you 0:23:57.960 --> 0:23:59.840 want your children to have the experience you had. So 0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:01.399 now it's like a rite of passage where it's like 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:03.400 she's old enough for a barbie, let's get her a barbie. 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:07.040 I mean, you give your kid the tool to imagine 0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:10.520 anything happening to them. Because originally, I mean the doll 0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:13.440 was invented when Ruth Handler would see her daughter using 0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:16.359 paper dolls to play out like adult scenarios. She was like, well, 0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:20.400 why doesn't this exist in the three dimensional The other 0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:23.800 reason it's so popular is because, I hate to say it, 0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:26.200 the good and bad press that comes out every five 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:28.640 or ten years. You know, this year we're gonna get 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:31.360 obsessed with Barbie's body not being big enough, and this 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:35.159 year we're gonna barbiecore is gonna get big again. So 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:37.120 it's going to go through runways for like a year. 0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:40.880 Like every few years, it pops researches again in fashion, 0:24:41.320 --> 0:24:43.880 or there's a movie about it, or an SNL skit 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:47.439 or just it's such a common link. I mean, the 0:24:47.440 --> 0:24:50.359 average little girl in the United States owns eleven dolls. 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:54.800 Eleven Barbies. Wow, yeah, an average jealous So the numbers 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:59.040 like everybody has a Barbie story. And the flip side 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:01.520 of that is, let's say every woman has a little 0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:04.520 bit of body stuff, right, things about their body they 0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:08.119 struggle with. If everyone owned a doll. I'm not saying 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:10.720 it's fair, but it becomes the common thread that I 0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:13.840 think becomes a scapegoat for a lot of conversations about 0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:17.159 the culture as a whole. I don't like my body, 0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:19.000 I don't either did you have a Barbie? Me too? 0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:21.960 It must like I think that's a little too reductive. 0:25:22.840 --> 0:25:27.159 Body things and stuff like that is more than just 0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:31.160 some toy you had. It's commercials, it's movies, it's you know, everything. 0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:36.240 So that coverage girl has eleven dolls? How many dolls 0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:37.320 do you have? 0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:41.040 That's what I was gonna have. I'm about probably like 0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:44.359 six hundred little girls. Now more than that, like probably 0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:47.000 six thousand little girls, which means not if but when I. 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:50.040 You're every woman, Wait, is it six hundred or is 0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:51.080 it six thousand a half? 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:52.480 No? 0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:54.919 I probably have. I mean, if we're being honest, I 0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:58.640 probably have. We're talking the body, like how many plastic 0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:00.600 dolls do I have? Because then there's clothes, which is 0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:06.000 a whole other thing. Yeah, it's not even quantifiable. Oh wow, 0:26:06.200 --> 0:26:08.480 So they're not They're not like in short or anything 0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:11.199 or like, is it like like a filing system. Are 0:26:11.200 --> 0:26:12.720 they all in a safe yeah? Are they invent? 0:26:12.760 --> 0:26:13.040 Are there? 0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:16.160 Is there an archive in our inventory? Or they're kind 0:26:16.160 --> 0:26:18.800 of spread out? Like at the motel and the reception, 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:22.000 we have maybe three two or three dozen of my 0:26:22.000 --> 0:26:24.280 my real vintage collection. So if you go in there, 0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:26.480 some of those dolls are like they amn near on 0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:29.119 a thousand dollars, don't steal them. And then at my 0:26:29.240 --> 0:26:32.080 condo where I keep at my like uh drag studio, 0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:35.160 that's where I have like most of my vintage ones. 0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:37.000 That's where I have I have a number one Barbie 0:26:37.119 --> 0:26:41.080 deep in the closet, buried because that's a very valuable piece. 0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:45.720 Mind sent signed by Ruth Handler. Two. So I have 0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:48.200 a lot, and I'm always looking. I mean, I've stopped, 0:26:48.280 --> 0:26:50.199 I've started narrowing. So now I'm in the middle of 0:26:50.200 --> 0:26:52.159 getting rid of my nineties because most of what I 0:26:52.200 --> 0:26:56.239 collect is like sixties mad Barbie. So I'm getting rid 0:26:56.280 --> 0:26:58.200 of a lot of my nineties Barbie right now because 0:26:58.240 --> 0:27:00.680 I just I need to thin the herd. All collectors 0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:00.879 do this. 0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:03.320 It's like her Flop in the nineties. 0:27:04.440 --> 0:27:07.240 No Barbie in the nineties, I believe is honestly the 0:27:07.280 --> 0:27:13.680 Golden era, because we're talking like tan, orange skin, blue eyeshadow, 0:27:13.720 --> 0:27:17.000 this big white hair, and every look is like ice skates, 0:27:17.160 --> 0:27:21.679 roller skates, ice cream glitter. It's nuts because for a 0:27:21.720 --> 0:27:29.040 good like mid two thousands to twenty fifteen, it was, 0:27:29.080 --> 0:27:32.040 in my opinion, the least interesting time Barbie was in 0:27:32.119 --> 0:27:34.760 jeans and T shirts, you know, like. 0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:37.000 Ooh, normcore Barbie. 0:27:37.320 --> 0:27:40.280 Kind of like, I mean, there's important things they do now, 0:27:40.320 --> 0:27:42.119 like career of the Year Barbie. It will be this 0:27:42.240 --> 0:27:46.040 year she's a robot technician. This year she's running for president, 0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:46.840 and like. 0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:47.879 That year podcaster. 0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:52.000 Maybe she's a podcaster. One year she was like a 0:27:52.119 --> 0:27:54.920 music producer, so she had like a little keyboard in 0:27:54.920 --> 0:27:59.000 a computer and headphones. But I of course like the 0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:01.840 heightened versions. So like when Barbie a few years ago 0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:04.920 started doing the extra dolls, It's like, that's fierce when 0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:08.520 they're in like fur coats and pumps, and because Barbie 0:28:08.600 --> 0:28:12.200 used to be so aspirational and theatrical, and I feel 0:28:12.200 --> 0:28:15.560 that for a while it was getting really joggers and 0:28:15.600 --> 0:28:20.360 T shirt as a collector. It wasn't only the collector 0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:23.160 dolls were cool. But want I like a world where 0:28:23.200 --> 0:28:25.400 I can walk through Target and see dolls that I want, 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:28.080 you know, I want those to be cool too. Yeah, 0:28:28.119 --> 0:28:30.720 it's hard. I mean the dolls are made from plastic, 0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:34.520 and plastics made from oil and natural oils are all 0:28:34.560 --> 0:28:36.600 loose going up in price, and when you have like 0:28:37.080 --> 0:28:39.880 I'm sure Walmart or whatever is like we'll buy this 0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:41.840 meny dolls from you, matel but they have to be 0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:45.120 under ten dollars to beat this price point. Then it 0:28:45.160 --> 0:28:48.200 makes the toy company and the not the decorators, the designers, 0:28:48.240 --> 0:28:51.000 and the toy company like they're limited because they have 0:28:51.040 --> 0:28:55.960 to make a doll that's accessible. They can't spend all 0:28:56.000 --> 0:28:58.000 the money because then it's gonna be one hundred fifty dollars. 0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:04.240 Like I am fine with that, but yeah, you're like whatever. 0:29:04.320 --> 0:29:07.520 Yeah, but a little like Mary Sue shopping a target 0:29:07.600 --> 0:29:10.320 in you know, like Kansas City. 0:29:10.440 --> 0:29:11.920 Yeah, like it's have you ever been in like a 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:14.840 CBS and they have like an eight dollar doll where 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:17.200 she's just in this from suit. They still have to 0:29:17.240 --> 0:29:21.120 have an impulse purchase level doll. Yeah. For the kid 0:29:21.120 --> 0:29:22.840 who's like nagging at the store, is like can I 0:29:22.920 --> 0:29:23.440 just have one? 0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:26.680 Well, the ones that I got to get, Like when 0:29:26.680 --> 0:29:29.080 I was a kid and like wasn't allowed to have dolls. 0:29:29.360 --> 0:29:31.960 It was like when I had a couple dollars and 0:29:32.000 --> 0:29:34.720 I was like didn't have supervision. That's when I was 0:29:34.720 --> 0:29:38.400 able to like buy the you know, Walgreens Aisle Barbie 0:29:38.840 --> 0:29:43.080 and then hiding that I kept in my closet that 0:29:43.160 --> 0:29:45.240 my parents didn't know about and would play with them 0:29:45.240 --> 0:29:45.840 in secret. 0:29:46.760 --> 0:29:50.000 Right, Oh wow, that was that's your doll origin story? 0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:52.320 Was that is my doll origin story. It's like covered 0:29:52.360 --> 0:29:55.400 in shame because of like you know, like the you 0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:58.040 know whatever it was saying about like my gender, like 0:29:58.120 --> 0:30:00.720 my queerness or whatever. You know, it was very, very shameful. 0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:03.040 I knew that I was not allowed to have them 0:30:03.040 --> 0:30:06.520 because I already did too many girly things, and you know, 0:30:06.720 --> 0:30:09.200 like I think my mom kind of looked the other way, 0:30:09.800 --> 0:30:11.960 but I knew that it was wrong. And now I 0:30:12.040 --> 0:30:14.320 look back on it and like, of course I wanted 0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:17.640 to play with dolls. Hello, Like why is it? Why 0:30:17.680 --> 0:30:18.520 was it so shameful? 0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:21.560 But it really was, honestly, Well, it's not a two 0:30:21.560 --> 0:30:23.480 way street either, Like if your daughter wants to talk 0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:25.240 a truck, no one cares, But if your someone wants 0:30:25.240 --> 0:30:26.400 a barbie, it's an issue. 0:30:26.680 --> 0:30:27.960 Yes, say that. 0:30:28.080 --> 0:30:30.080 I'm so glad earlier that you brought up the kind 0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:33.120 of like the boy girl toys and McDonald's, because that 0:30:33.240 --> 0:30:35.760 was such like a moment in the culture, like like 0:30:35.880 --> 0:30:38.920 and and the kind of fascism required for me to 0:30:38.960 --> 0:30:41.240 get a NASCAR toy as a child, like. 0:30:41.400 --> 0:30:44.680 I don't want that fucking Nascar toy, Like, how dare 0:30:44.880 --> 0:30:46.120 that was so rude? 0:30:46.240 --> 0:30:50.920 I was like that it was it was violence, honestly almost. 0:30:51.880 --> 0:30:54.840 There was something almost more aspirational for me too about 0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:57.960 like the McDonald's Happy Meal Barbies, because a lot of 0:30:57.960 --> 0:31:01.280 times the hair was plastic and sculpted, so it was like, 0:31:02.160 --> 0:31:04.760 she's almost like a religious totem. She's like a little 0:31:04.840 --> 0:31:07.280 statue of the perfect woman. And I mean, as a kid, 0:31:07.360 --> 0:31:11.600 I really was just worshiping the dolls. I mean before 0:31:11.640 --> 0:31:15.800 I understood, before I understood that she was sort of 0:31:16.960 --> 0:31:19.880 at that point in the nineties, Barbie was almost doing drag. 0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:24.000 She was parodying femininity on such a high level. I mean, 0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:28.960 miss Yvonne Barbie peg Bundy. There was this pocket of 0:31:29.000 --> 0:31:33.160 like women doing drag that was like I think probably 0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:37.000 a response to women's movements like in the nineties, like 0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:40.000 shaved heads and tape over the titties. And there was 0:31:40.040 --> 0:31:43.400 this beginning conversation about what we expected women and like 0:31:43.440 --> 0:31:46.120 me and me from Drew Carrey, it's like, when we 0:31:46.320 --> 0:31:48.880 show what women are supposed to be like, and we 0:31:48.960 --> 0:31:51.480 pushed that a little bit. We show how stupid it 0:31:51.600 --> 0:31:53.960 is to expect women to do anything or be any 0:31:53.960 --> 0:31:56.920 type of way. You know, That's something I'm always wanting 0:31:56.920 --> 0:31:59.200 to explore with Tricksy, especially in the beginning, was like, 0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:02.040 if my waist is this big, and my titties are huge, 0:32:02.040 --> 0:32:04.160 and my hairs and all this is if you look 0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:06.760 at me and see a woman, I think that's actually 0:32:06.880 --> 0:32:10.120 very illuminating that, like I read, doesn't do I look 0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:12.640 like your mother or your sister? No, So like it's 0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:16.080 interesting that you see women when I look fucking crazy. 0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:19.160 I'm sure you look like someone's mother or sister. 0:32:19.400 --> 0:32:20.880 And I will I will say, like when I got 0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:23.120 out of Texas, They're like, your hair reminds me my mom. 0:32:23.160 --> 0:32:49.880 I'm like, can I see it? And I have to 0:32:49.880 --> 0:32:53.880 say so, I actually watched her unboxing of your number one, 0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:56.920 of your number one Barbie, the original was it nineteen 0:32:56.920 --> 0:33:00.800 sixty five Barbie just off the Fountain nineteen fifty nine? 0:33:00.880 --> 0:33:01.160 Thank you. 0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:05.560 I have to say that the original Barbie, her mug 0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:10.240 was pretty cunty, like she had like like thin brows 0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:12.640 and a side eye, and she had like, you know, 0:33:12.840 --> 0:33:14.960 like thick eyeliner leg She. 0:33:14.880 --> 0:33:17.840 Looked kind of her face is giving a little like she's. 0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:20.000 Like you sure, and I'll say she's she's a little 0:33:20.320 --> 0:33:24.280 severe looking for a child's toy, I will say. And 0:33:24.320 --> 0:33:26.440 that's part of why, you know, in nineteen fifty eight, 0:33:26.480 --> 0:33:29.480 when the handlers were showing Barbie toys used to be 0:33:29.480 --> 0:33:31.959 purchased this way. There would be a toy convention at 0:33:32.000 --> 0:33:35.720 let's say the Radison San Diego, and all the toy 0:33:35.760 --> 0:33:38.240 store owners in the country would fly to town and they 0:33:38.280 --> 0:33:40.920 would go hotel room to hotel room, and they would 0:33:40.960 --> 0:33:44.200 get pitched new toys by little toy developers. And that's 0:33:44.240 --> 0:33:47.160 how toy stores would stock shelves. They would try to 0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:49.360 predict what's going to be big or like, this isn't 0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:52.480 out yet. And Barbie was a brand new thing, and 0:33:53.240 --> 0:33:55.000 you have to imagine they thought this is gonna be 0:33:55.040 --> 0:33:58.400 a major hit, and they barely did numbers. I mean, 0:33:59.040 --> 0:34:02.840 everybody was mortified and grossed out by this doll when 0:34:02.880 --> 0:34:05.000 it was shown at the nineteen fifty eight toy fair. 0:34:05.800 --> 0:34:09.000 So then the first run of Barbie, which is that 0:34:09.080 --> 0:34:11.799 number one with like the really cunty face and she 0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:16.680 looks not even nice, she looks severe. That run of 0:34:16.719 --> 0:34:20.000 those was under three hundred thousand pieces like maybe two 0:34:19.600 --> 0:34:25.440 h and fifty because it was never Nobody thought it 0:34:25.480 --> 0:34:27.239 was going to be a hit except the people making it. 0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:30.280 And if you don't know this too, this is crazy. 0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:32.799 Mattel was one of the first companies to realize you 0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:36.160 don't have to sell to the child. You have to 0:34:36.200 --> 0:34:38.920 sell to the parent, because that's ultimately who buys the product. 0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:43.239 So Mattel was the first company, basically one of the 0:34:43.239 --> 0:34:47.040 first companies to put commercials for toys during the children's 0:34:47.080 --> 0:34:52.719 cartoon hours. Nobody had thought to do that. Like if 0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:54.640 you sell it to the child, the child will sell 0:34:54.680 --> 0:34:57.120 it to the parent. Basically that's how you get a 0:34:57.160 --> 0:35:01.920 toy sold. And so that's part of those commercials is 0:35:02.120 --> 0:35:05.080 like popping up during cartoon breaks. Is what made it 0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:07.239 go from like a toy at a convention that no 0:35:07.280 --> 0:35:10.920 one cared about to like basically Ferbie in the nineties, 0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:15.399 like clamoring to a sensation. Yeah, and I mean only 0:35:15.400 --> 0:35:17.200 a few toys have broken through like that if you 0:35:17.239 --> 0:35:20.520 think of like easy Bake oven or there's only a 0:35:20.520 --> 0:35:25.880 few toys that have had a complete whirlwind in Mattel. 0:35:26.400 --> 0:35:30.239 Mattel in the first three years went from nobody to 0:35:30.360 --> 0:35:33.360 the I think that the number one toy company in 0:35:33.400 --> 0:35:36.680 the world in like three years. But she was initially 0:35:36.719 --> 0:35:39.280 a flop, which is kind of great, a total flop, 0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:42.279 like less than a flop. People being like you're joking right, 0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:46.160 Like this all has nipples. This is disgusting. This, this 0:35:46.239 --> 0:35:50.760 is just sickles. Maybe the og Ones had at least, 0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:53.719 like I think the original prototype had nipples and they 0:35:53.800 --> 0:35:55.440 removed them before they went to shelf. 0:35:55.719 --> 0:35:58.799 Oh, I imagine they were hard nipples and not sort 0:35:58.800 --> 0:36:00.640 of like a rubbery song like deep. 0:36:00.480 --> 0:36:05.439 Brown and like this big around. Yeah, dinner plates. 0:36:05.160 --> 0:36:08.480 Put nipples back on barbies. I'll say. 0:36:08.640 --> 0:36:11.600 If you watch the documentary Tiny Shoulders on Hulu, it 0:36:11.640 --> 0:36:15.239 opens with like a reenactment of that. I think it 0:36:15.280 --> 0:36:19.000 was Ryan who owns the patent on Barbie, who he 0:36:19.040 --> 0:36:21.120 did own the patent on Barbie. He basically picked up 0:36:21.160 --> 0:36:22.840 the doll, took a nail file and shaved off the 0:36:22.920 --> 0:36:24.799 nipples and was like, no, it's perfect, and that's kind 0:36:24.840 --> 0:36:26.319 of like the lore of how they did it. 0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:29.040 No, which they still are. 0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:30.920 People are still hung up on nipples. 0:36:31.000 --> 0:36:34.480 So oh yeah, I mean you get my nipples sanded off. 0:36:34.480 --> 0:36:36.160 This weekend, I did not have a good time. 0:36:36.640 --> 0:36:40.000 I know, now are all the girls just standing off 0:36:40.040 --> 0:36:44.080 their nipples? It's the culture there are. 0:36:44.120 --> 0:36:47.840 I want to know, what which of the barbies do 0:36:47.920 --> 0:36:50.640 you know within your knowledge that were like controversial or 0:36:50.719 --> 0:36:54.719 like recalled or like created hubbub I know, like one 0:36:54.760 --> 0:36:57.319 of the things that I was thinking of was like 0:36:57.840 --> 0:36:59.760 kind of I want to say, like in the aughts, 0:36:59.760 --> 0:37:02.960 there was a pregnant barbie that was recalled because she 0:37:03.000 --> 0:37:05.800 didn't have a wedding ring. That was like a huge 0:37:05.800 --> 0:37:08.640 thing and it was like I can't get pregnant out 0:37:08.680 --> 0:37:10.760 of wedlock or whatever, and they were all recalled. 0:37:11.400 --> 0:37:14.000 Are there any other like controversial barbie stories like that? 0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:17.439 There's a lot, And I want to say, I don't 0:37:17.440 --> 0:37:19.279 work for Mattel, but I will descend them until the 0:37:19.320 --> 0:37:23.040 day I die. This is a doll that's been out 0:37:23.080 --> 0:37:24.880 for seventy years. So if you're going to judge the 0:37:24.920 --> 0:37:27.160 dolls of sixty years ago by the standards of today, 0:37:27.160 --> 0:37:30.880 you're always disappointed. Okay, Like, but you know when they 0:37:30.960 --> 0:37:33.560 did slumber Party, there was a slumber party barbie that 0:37:33.600 --> 0:37:35.880 came with a scale and a diet book and the 0:37:35.920 --> 0:37:39.200 inside or the back of it said donate that hasn't 0:37:39.239 --> 0:37:41.239 aged well. I don't think it was an issue at 0:37:41.239 --> 0:37:44.080 the time, but it was, you know, as not age 0:37:44.160 --> 0:37:44.480 at the time. 0:37:44.520 --> 0:37:45.880 They were like, oh my god, thanks for reminding me 0:37:45.960 --> 0:37:48.440 not to eat well. 0:37:48.480 --> 0:37:50.160 I wear a lot of vintage clothes, and I mean 0:37:50.160 --> 0:37:53.280 when I shot vintage, I'm like, we're women seventy pounds 0:37:53.320 --> 0:37:55.880 and I'm like, I think they were like, clothes are 0:37:56.000 --> 0:37:58.880 this big, nonstretched, fabrics waste. 0:37:59.040 --> 0:38:01.760 It's like when you go to like a medieval museum 0:38:01.920 --> 0:38:05.400 and all the doors are like this tall, and you're like, 0:38:05.520 --> 0:38:07.560 totally people were extremely short. 0:38:08.120 --> 0:38:12.000 They were, and then you know, there's there's so many 0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:14.680 I mean, there was a doll called teen Talk Barbie 0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:16.320 where if you pushed a button on her back, she 0:38:16.360 --> 0:38:19.080 said phrases. It was in the eighties or the early nineties. 0:38:19.239 --> 0:38:21.239 One of the phrases she said was math is hard, 0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:24.120 and that was controversial for a female toy to be said, 0:38:24.200 --> 0:38:29.080 like women can't do math, but yes, math is math 0:38:29.800 --> 0:38:32.360 famously hard. That's what I'm saying. I'm like the apologist, 0:38:32.440 --> 0:38:34.319 So don't ever expect me to get mad, because I'm like, 0:38:35.680 --> 0:38:37.959 you know, there's things that are a little more transparently, 0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:41.680 like an oversight like there was an Oreo Barbie, that 0:38:42.480 --> 0:38:44.720 there there was an Orio Barbie. She came as black 0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:47.280 or white, and like a black Barbie called Orio Barbie. 0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:52.560 I would you know, No, I'm sure they didn't love 0:38:52.680 --> 0:38:56.520 that that happened. And then earing Magic Ken, they said 0:38:56.520 --> 0:38:58.359 he was gay. It depends if you want to say 0:38:58.360 --> 0:38:59.360 that's controversy or not. 0:39:00.200 --> 0:39:03.080 He would so I own an earring Magic Ken and 0:39:03.080 --> 0:39:05.040 he was I actually have it on my desk. 0:39:05.360 --> 0:39:08.239 I was he looks. I mean, I don't think he's gay. 0:39:08.320 --> 0:39:10.640 I think he's a response to Vanilla Ice, who was 0:39:10.680 --> 0:39:13.439 so big at the time. Well it looks like Ice, 0:39:13.680 --> 0:39:16.120 so well I okay, So the story that I read 0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:17.920 online and I don't know if this is like I 0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:19.880 only read like, you know, one article about it. 0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:22.759 But like that they they were trying to like, you know, 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:25.200 rebrand Ken. They didn't know if they should sell Ken 0:39:25.239 --> 0:39:27.360 dolls anymore, if they should find a new doll that 0:39:27.480 --> 0:39:30.400 wasn't named Ken or whatever. And they surveyed teen girls 0:39:30.800 --> 0:39:33.200 about what they wanted in a Ken doll, and then 0:39:33.320 --> 0:39:36.359 and teen girls and like you know, young girls were like, 0:39:36.640 --> 0:39:38.560 this is what I want, and they like you know, 0:39:38.760 --> 0:39:41.640 gave a bunch of recommendations. Yes, they gave a bunch 0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:43.960 of recommendations on the styling. And so for the virgins 0:39:43.960 --> 0:39:46.759 who can't see, this is a this is a you 0:39:46.800 --> 0:39:50.240 know what do we got like platinum highlight kind of blowout? 0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:52.480 We got a notch? Is that a notch? And as 0:39:52.480 --> 0:39:55.600 I wrote, now ear rings. But also like also, this 0:39:55.680 --> 0:39:59.480 is exactly how Vanila I is dressed exactly top. 0:39:59.239 --> 0:40:02.520 And motemnr on his inner lip that says come pig. 0:40:04.200 --> 0:40:07.640 He's holding a bottle of rush. 0:40:07.680 --> 0:40:10.320 This is but this is like a blue pleathar vest, 0:40:11.400 --> 0:40:15.520 a lavender messher and a literal cock ring around his neck, 0:40:15.680 --> 0:40:18.680 Like what is going on like this? I'm not surprised 0:40:19.080 --> 0:40:22.279 girls voted for this because like I mean tricksy and 0:40:22.480 --> 0:40:24.520 I'm sure you know this better than anyone that like, 0:40:24.680 --> 0:40:29.120 the main market for drag and like lots of queer 0:40:29.120 --> 0:40:31.240 culture is teenage girls. 0:40:31.760 --> 0:40:35.840 Oh, gay men don't even like me. I'm the audience 0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:40.720 is thirteen year old sister girls cis gender women periods. 0:40:43.520 --> 0:40:47.360 That's what's interesting with all this like discourse about drag 0:40:47.400 --> 0:40:50.600 being appropriate for kids. I'm somebody who accidentally has the 0:40:50.840 --> 0:40:54.400 maybe the youngest audience. But I have never said I 0:40:54.560 --> 0:40:57.240 liked kids or pulled punches when it comes to saying 0:40:57.280 --> 0:40:58.560 disgusting and horrible things. 0:40:59.040 --> 0:41:01.680 So I'm just talk about you how you don't like 0:41:01.800 --> 0:41:04.719 children one hundred percent. 0:41:04.800 --> 0:41:06.719 And I mean when I get on stage, I talk 0:41:06.800 --> 0:41:11.279 about like rimming my dad. So I've never I've It's 0:41:11.320 --> 0:41:13.360 not a bait and switch where I've pretended to be 0:41:13.480 --> 0:41:16.600 kid friendly. Now I've always said I'm not kid friendly. 0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:18.000 But then they come to the show. So what am 0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:20.759 I supposed to do? You know, I'm not going to 0:41:20.840 --> 0:41:23.399 kick them out because when I was thirteen, I felt 0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:25.080 like an adult and I wanted to watch adult shit. 0:41:25.239 --> 0:41:26.480 So whatever. 0:41:27.480 --> 0:41:30.960 There's also and they have disposable money for merch exactly. 0:41:31.040 --> 0:41:32.640 Hello, you know, hard just to eat gay guys to 0:41:32.680 --> 0:41:35.839 do anything. Well, what if something better comes along? Like okay, fine, 0:41:35.840 --> 0:41:38.400 don't come you know, But I mean, ask any working 0:41:38.480 --> 0:41:40.640 drive queen if they make more money at a brunch 0:41:40.719 --> 0:41:43.000 with a bunch of gay guys or a bunch of bachelorettes, 0:41:43.040 --> 0:41:44.960 ask them who they make more money with, and they'll 0:41:45.000 --> 0:41:49.520 play the truth. You know. I recently DJed like I 0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:51.879 recently picked up a little DJ gig in Australia, and 0:41:52.000 --> 0:41:54.040 sometimes I like to pick up DJ gigs under the 0:41:54.120 --> 0:41:56.680 radar and not telling you when I'm going because I 0:41:56.800 --> 0:41:59.839 just want to play for fun and not like have 0:41:59.880 --> 0:42:02.239 to be tricksy in a way, you know. And I 0:42:02.280 --> 0:42:05.080 picked up a DJ gig at the Steamworks in Perth 0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:11.000 and I just went out of drag DJ at Steamworks 0:42:11.000 --> 0:42:13.839 Perth and a few people recognized me and said hi. 0:42:13.880 --> 0:42:17.000 But all in all, it was like so refreshing to 0:42:17.120 --> 0:42:21.439 be ignored by gay guys again and drag like, because 0:42:21.480 --> 0:42:23.799 that was my experience for the first like ten years 0:42:23.840 --> 0:42:26.720 in drag was just like gay guys barely paying attention 0:42:26.800 --> 0:42:29.920 to me. And now it's mostly not gay guys and 0:42:29.960 --> 0:42:32.279 they're very much paying attention to me, which I love, 0:42:32.360 --> 0:42:34.800 of course, But it was like it was a reality 0:42:34.920 --> 0:42:37.279 check to just play for gay guys ignoring me again. 0:42:37.280 --> 0:42:39.720 I was like, how this makes me appreciate the audience 0:42:39.760 --> 0:42:42.799 I have because these guys at Steamworks could don't care 0:42:42.800 --> 0:42:44.560 if I'm dead or alive, and what songs I play 0:42:44.600 --> 0:42:46.160 do not matter, So. 0:42:46.680 --> 0:42:48.839 I've never been as long as there's a rhythm for 0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:49.759 them to you know. 0:42:50.239 --> 0:42:52.080 Oh, and I was playing all my nasty music that 0:42:52.080 --> 0:42:54.239 really wouldn't fly at like a dance club. But I 0:42:54.280 --> 0:42:59.280 was playing like you know, gross, like spoken wordy, nasty, nasty. 0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:00.319 Wait. 0:43:00.400 --> 0:43:04.680 I have never been to a Steamworks branch. Did they regularly? 0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:07.200 I didn't know they have DJ sets at Steamworks that's 0:43:07.200 --> 0:43:10.560 a thing. I've never been to one either until this one. 0:43:10.800 --> 0:43:13.759 And it was it was like it's like a it's 0:43:13.800 --> 0:43:16.200 a steam it's a sauna. What is a Steamworks for 0:43:16.200 --> 0:43:20.120 the virgins? It's just like it's I mean, I'm not 0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:22.960 the expert. This was my first time at one. It 0:43:23.120 --> 0:43:26.400 seemed like a bathhouse. Basically, it's a little private rooms 0:43:26.640 --> 0:43:29.200 with a spa and a steam shower and a gym, 0:43:29.360 --> 0:43:30.920 and it had a little The one in Perth had 0:43:30.920 --> 0:43:34.680 a little mini nightclub basically had a room with a 0:43:34.719 --> 0:43:37.440 bar and a little dance floor and a DJ booth 0:43:37.480 --> 0:43:39.960 and it was a nice DJ booth. It was it 0:43:40.120 --> 0:43:43.240 was like four CDJs, like really nice, brand new equipment. 0:43:43.280 --> 0:43:46.600 I was like, I was like, this is really nice. 0:43:46.640 --> 0:43:48.120 And I was like I've played at other bars in 0:43:48.160 --> 0:43:51.319 Perth and they don't have as nice of equipment as 0:43:51.360 --> 0:43:53.120 the DJ equipment at Steamers. 0:43:53.800 --> 0:43:57.040 All right, like yeah, we're getting scrills in next week, 0:43:57.560 --> 0:43:57.920 I know. 0:43:58.280 --> 0:44:00.640 But it was just it's it's if you ever like 0:44:00.760 --> 0:44:02.800 are out and you think it's me behind, if you 0:44:02.840 --> 0:44:04.920 see like a ball guy DJing, it probably is me. 0:44:04.960 --> 0:44:06.800 And I just didn't advertise it because I just wanted 0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:10.279 to just be invisible. But I love that. I mean, 0:44:10.320 --> 0:44:11.640 you you a legend. 0:44:11.719 --> 0:44:15.480 Kind of like doing a incognito set at steam Marks 0:44:15.600 --> 0:44:17.480 is kind of reminding me of like when Bette Midler 0:44:17.640 --> 0:44:19.680 used to do when she was like the kind of 0:44:19.760 --> 0:44:21.880 singer for bat gay bath houses in New York and 0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:22.560 stuff like that. 0:44:23.520 --> 0:44:24.799 Oh yeah, and I was like the only one there 0:44:24.840 --> 0:44:27.200 with clothes on. Yeah, it was like I had a 0:44:27.239 --> 0:44:29.560 T shirt on, and I was like vastly overdressed. Like 0:44:30.000 --> 0:44:32.840 also's naked people were on the dance floor naked, just 0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:35.279 naked dancing, and I was like, all right, work, that's 0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:35.840 so fun. 0:44:35.880 --> 0:44:37.920 I also was like I can't swing you. 0:44:38.560 --> 0:44:40.279 I can't take pictures with any of you because right 0:44:40.280 --> 0:44:42.920 now in the States they literally google drag queens and 0:44:42.960 --> 0:44:44.680 pull a picture and it's usually mine and they put 0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:46.279 on the news and call me a pedophile. So like, 0:44:46.400 --> 0:44:49.400 I can't take any pictures here. Like then again, at 0:44:49.440 --> 0:44:54.040 a at a bar place like that, pictures are prohibited anyway, so, right, Rose, 0:44:54.080 --> 0:44:55.640 have you ever been to a steamworks? 0:44:56.440 --> 0:44:59.040 Not a steam works, but I've been to many bath 0:44:59.080 --> 0:45:00.560 houses many, she's. 0:45:00.360 --> 0:45:02.640 Any bath house, water in the kitchen and get naked. 0:45:02.880 --> 0:45:04.440 I'm just I'm just imagine. 0:45:04.719 --> 0:45:08.000 I'm just imagining just like on a dance floor naked 0:45:08.000 --> 0:45:10.920 that I feel like logistically that could be dangerous. 0:45:10.920 --> 0:45:13.239 Well, I mean to be fair, when I've been at 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:15.640 a bath house, I certainly haven't been on the dance floor. 0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:17.520 I've been doing the other things that you do at 0:45:17.520 --> 0:45:18.400 a bath house, right. 0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:20.279 Other things that you do at a bath house. Like 0:45:20.680 --> 0:45:24.080 I like the idea that somebody has like a steamworks 0:45:24.080 --> 0:45:26.920 membership and uses it, like it's the fucking why they 0:45:26.960 --> 0:45:28.800 go there to actually use a treadmill and shower and 0:45:28.880 --> 0:45:29.480 leave mm hmm. 0:45:30.080 --> 0:45:31.839 And they're just sort of like they're like they're like 0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:34.400 on the elliptical and there's like someone getting railed in 0:45:34.440 --> 0:45:37.319 the background, and they're just like listening to like our 0:45:37.360 --> 0:45:39.040 podcast while they work out. 0:45:40.640 --> 0:45:44.600 Yeah, they're listening to like NPR, Yeah fresh Air. 0:45:45.360 --> 0:45:49.760 Yeah, that is kind of my my gym in Brooklyn 0:45:49.920 --> 0:45:51.640 and on a gym that I will not name, like 0:45:51.760 --> 0:45:54.440 I joined when it like in an in an earlier 0:45:54.480 --> 0:45:56.480 stage when it's it's not as crowded as it it 0:45:56.520 --> 0:45:59.200 wasn't as crowded as it is now. And like I 0:45:59.239 --> 0:46:00.640 signed up and I was like, oh, this is a 0:46:00.680 --> 0:46:04.759 family gym for like local Brooklyn people and like you know, 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:08.040 their dads or whatever, and and you know, I've been there. 0:46:08.200 --> 0:46:09.200 I've been there for a while now. 0:46:09.200 --> 0:46:10.839 And like after like a month or two, I was like, Oh, 0:46:10.880 --> 0:46:15.040 everyone here is fucking Like everyone here is looking and 0:46:15.080 --> 0:46:17.839 fucking and this is a gay gym. And the way 0:46:17.840 --> 0:46:21.360 you're describing is kind of my gym because like the 0:46:21.960 --> 0:46:24.960 actual like cis hat like Brooklyn dads are just like 0:46:24.960 --> 0:46:27.080 like you know, in the steam room, like don't mind me, 0:46:27.200 --> 0:46:29.000 I'm just getting my steam in. I know you guys 0:46:29.080 --> 0:46:30.759 got to do your business, but like I'm just a 0:46:30.840 --> 0:46:34.000 dad or whatever. It's I love the it's really as 0:46:34.040 --> 0:46:36.799 a coexist moment. Well that was the other thing I 0:46:36.840 --> 0:46:39.319 was DJing somewhere. We're to be honest, most people there 0:46:39.400 --> 0:46:43.680 were trying to keep a low profile, and most like 0:46:43.800 --> 0:46:45.560 straight guys and stuff, they don't know who I am, 0:46:45.640 --> 0:46:47.560 and if they figure out, they're not gonna telling why. 0:46:47.360 --> 0:47:09.160 Way, so right exactly secret safe with me. Tricksy I 0:47:09.320 --> 0:47:12.799 do really want to know, because you know, we are, 0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:15.239 as we've said, like we're kind of in the year 0:47:15.440 --> 0:47:18.280 of Barbie right now, or like one of the year's Barbie, 0:47:18.400 --> 0:47:21.520 because Greta Garway's Barbie film is coming out this summer. 0:47:22.920 --> 0:47:25.320 What are you, like, are you excited? What do you 0:47:25.520 --> 0:47:28.719 want from it? Like, do you or do you have 0:47:28.880 --> 0:47:32.080 any suspicions now that we've got a couple of trailers 0:47:32.120 --> 0:47:35.640 out about what it could be about, like what's I 0:47:35.719 --> 0:47:36.280 haven't even. 0:47:36.160 --> 0:47:41.800 Watched the trailer because it feels like I don't know. 0:47:41.880 --> 0:47:46.600 I want to go and blind. And I also, you 0:47:46.680 --> 0:47:51.279 have to understand, anytime anything Barbie adjacent ever happens, my 0:47:51.360 --> 0:47:55.320 phone blows up. And so I also am like already early, 0:47:56.320 --> 0:47:59.520 like inundated about it, Like you're hearing about this movie 0:48:00.239 --> 0:48:03.239 constantly for over a year. So it was like by 0:48:03.320 --> 0:48:05.120 the time the trailers out and everything's reacting to it. 0:48:05.160 --> 0:48:07.440 I also, this is so crazy and this is my 0:48:07.480 --> 0:48:11.239 own damage. I also feel like, great, now everyone's a bandwagoner, 0:48:11.280 --> 0:48:11.400 do you. 0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:11.879 Know what I mean? 0:48:12.000 --> 0:48:15.279 I like it as somebody who can name the year 0:48:15.440 --> 0:48:17.480 in the name of every outfit in that trailer, I'm 0:48:17.520 --> 0:48:19.480 sure I'm like, oh, did you like it? Did you 0:48:19.560 --> 0:48:19.960 like that movie? 0:48:19.960 --> 0:48:22.120 You're gonna be sitting theater like you're all a bunch 0:48:22.200 --> 0:48:24.040 of fakes, Get out of here. Yeah. 0:48:24.360 --> 0:48:28.120 But I also I love the Sims, for example, and 0:48:28.239 --> 0:48:30.680 I hate when people who love the Sims do nothing 0:48:30.719 --> 0:48:33.080 but shit on the Sims. The same way I hate 0:48:33.080 --> 0:48:36.560 when people like I love drag Race, but there's too 0:48:36.680 --> 0:48:38.959 much of it, there's too much. Like I hate people 0:48:39.120 --> 0:48:44.480 complaining about the wealth of something they like, like as 0:48:44.520 --> 0:48:47.319 if it's the Hunger Games and President Snow forces people 0:48:47.360 --> 0:48:49.239 to watch drag Race, Like when people complain about too 0:48:49.280 --> 0:48:51.799 many drag Race, I'm like, don't watch it, Mary, who 0:48:51.920 --> 0:48:52.640 fucking cares. 0:48:53.520 --> 0:48:56.000 I'm definitely forced to watch drag Race. So it's definitely 0:48:56.040 --> 0:48:59.480 a state sanctioned like three to four hours drag race. 0:48:59.640 --> 0:49:01.439 Yeah. And if in New York, if you don't watch 0:49:01.640 --> 0:49:04.400 drag Race, every franchise AOC gives you a parking ticket. 0:49:04.800 --> 0:49:05.000 Yeah. 0:49:05.200 --> 0:49:07.760 No, actually you get you get tax breaks for watching 0:49:07.840 --> 0:49:12.759 drag races. But I actually, I have a very open mind, 0:49:12.840 --> 0:49:14.080 and I'm sure I'm gonna go see it when it 0:49:14.120 --> 0:49:18.600 comes out, but I have no expectations, and I go 0:49:18.800 --> 0:49:21.479 into things wanting to like them. So I'm not a hater. 0:49:22.080 --> 0:49:23.760 I'm sure that Barbie can't imagine. 0:49:24.760 --> 0:49:30.040 Nobody's gonna hate this movie except the most hardcore, annoying 0:49:30.120 --> 0:49:32.600 Barbie fans where they're like nothing was ever going to 0:49:32.640 --> 0:49:37.120 be good enough for them. I no matter what, I yeah, 0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:37.439 I want. 0:49:37.800 --> 0:49:39.759 I was going to ask you about the trailer. I 0:49:39.840 --> 0:49:41.399 would love to know your take on it. If there's 0:49:41.440 --> 0:49:43.319 something that happens. I won't spoil it. But there's something 0:49:43.360 --> 0:49:44.960 that happens in like the first five seconds of the 0:49:45.040 --> 0:49:48.360 trailer that is so gratifying, and it's like it's like 0:49:49.480 --> 0:49:50.920 it's just like an Ahama. 0:49:50.560 --> 0:49:52.560 Where you're like, oh, this is the movie I'm gonna get. 0:49:52.640 --> 0:49:54.800 But I will say, you know, you were talking earlier 0:49:54.800 --> 0:49:57.319 about like Barbie of the nineties, the blown out hair, 0:49:57.520 --> 0:50:00.399 like the golden era of Barbie. That definitely he does 0:50:00.560 --> 0:50:04.400 feel like the Barbie they are channeling. Obviously, they're tapping 0:50:04.480 --> 0:50:06.960 into a lot of different eras of barbiees and making 0:50:07.040 --> 0:50:09.880 specific references to barbiees throughout the years, but you can. 0:50:09.800 --> 0:50:12.440 Tell it's like a nineties movie. 0:50:12.640 --> 0:50:16.719 And I do feel like Ryan Gosling's Ken is very 0:50:17.120 --> 0:50:20.239 earring Magic Ken, like I think it's it feels like 0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:20.880 a reference. 0:50:22.200 --> 0:50:25.360 Yeah, and I mean yeah, yeah, he looks gay. I 0:50:25.440 --> 0:50:28.920 think that's intentional. It's also a business and I think 0:50:28.960 --> 0:50:31.239 it says a lot about nineties Barbie that when you 0:50:31.640 --> 0:50:34.200 draw car if you drew a cartoon of Barbie quick, 0:50:34.680 --> 0:50:36.920 you would draw nineties Barbie. You wouldn't draw two thousands 0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:40.960 of Barbie without draws. Yeah, you would draw this girl. Yeah, 0:50:41.400 --> 0:50:43.360 so now he has something to do with When I 0:50:43.480 --> 0:50:46.160 dub nineties Barbie like the golden age of Barbie, I'm 0:50:46.239 --> 0:50:50.040 not being like it's my preference, and so it's true. 0:50:50.200 --> 0:50:54.200 I think it. I think they actually etched her in permanently, 0:50:54.239 --> 0:50:56.239 because the other Barbie you think of would maybe be 0:50:56.360 --> 0:50:59.680 be simsuit Barbie from the fifties, Like that's the other 0:50:59.719 --> 0:51:02.160 barbe you think of. But when I think of Barbie, 0:51:02.320 --> 0:51:04.400 I mean I think of like I don't know, like 0:51:04.640 --> 0:51:10.600 roller skates, cassette player, like gymnastics ninety shit, that's the 0:51:10.680 --> 0:51:12.920 Barbie that I think of. I But like I said, 0:51:12.920 --> 0:51:15.960 I have no expectations, and I think it's like I'm 0:51:16.040 --> 0:51:18.719 just excited. I mean, I really, to my core, to 0:51:18.840 --> 0:51:21.880 my bones, love and respect Barbie and anything, any little nibble, 0:51:22.200 --> 0:51:25.040 any little I'm happy for it. I love it. 0:51:25.160 --> 0:51:28.280 But are you furious that Margot Robie was cast instead 0:51:28.280 --> 0:51:28.440 of you? 0:51:30.320 --> 0:51:32.160 I do think it's funny to it's interesting to think 0:51:32.160 --> 0:51:36.279 that wasn't an originally Amy Schumer. I think that that was. 0:51:36.480 --> 0:51:38.359 I think that that was in the works. Yeah, I'm 0:51:38.360 --> 0:51:39.120 pretty sure I. 0:51:39.160 --> 0:51:39.960 Think it was. Originally. 0:51:40.040 --> 0:51:41.600 When I first heard about the movie, I heard that 0:51:41.640 --> 0:51:45.480 Amy Schumer was playing Barbie like four years ago, and 0:51:45.560 --> 0:51:49.920 then I'm I love I love Morgart Robbie. I'm sorry, 0:51:50.640 --> 0:51:56.120 like Suicide Squad, she gives Okay, she's amazing Suicide Squad 0:51:56.120 --> 0:52:01.040 movies and it Tanya Girl Girl Girl Once Part a Time. 0:52:01.080 --> 0:52:01.239 Hal. 0:52:01.920 --> 0:52:03.880 But you know, I'm just gonna say this too. I 0:52:03.920 --> 0:52:07.520 don't like good movies. This year I watched like like 0:52:07.960 --> 0:52:10.320 Tar the Whail Triangle of Sadness, Like that is not 0:52:10.480 --> 0:52:12.800 for me, that type of movie. I watch it like 0:52:12.920 --> 0:52:17.040 stank faced, like this sucks, and then like but but 0:52:17.160 --> 0:52:20.719 I'm like, let's rewatch the original Super Marios movie, Like 0:52:21.120 --> 0:52:23.360 that's my level of movie that I love. And so 0:52:23.600 --> 0:52:25.200 I know I'm gonna like this was it. 0:52:25.320 --> 0:52:28.520 Like me, You're like me, I prefer I draw this division. 0:52:28.840 --> 0:52:32.320 I like movies not films, and I think that's a 0:52:32.440 --> 0:52:36.799 very clear difference between the two. I like the populist entertainment, 0:52:37.200 --> 0:52:41.000 and I definitely think I do think because of who's involved, 0:52:41.120 --> 0:52:45.640 Barbie is going to straddle the two like it's going 0:52:45.760 --> 0:52:47.920 to be because of the Barbie of it all, it's 0:52:47.960 --> 0:52:51.359 going to be accessible. But I also think because it's 0:52:51.520 --> 0:52:56.000 Greta Gerwig, that there's going to be something intelligent there 0:52:56.440 --> 0:52:56.680 by the. 0:52:56.680 --> 0:52:59.680 Way, the way that I thought Greta Greta Gerwig was 0:52:59.680 --> 0:53:02.520 Greta Thumberg, and I was like, oh is it not. 0:53:03.800 --> 0:53:07.960 I just was like that climate girl. I was like, yeah, 0:53:09.040 --> 0:53:12.840 Like I'm not like a smart film person like David 0:53:12.960 --> 0:53:16.320 is like the Ring of the Letter bled. No, I 0:53:16.520 --> 0:53:18.360 just watch what I watched. I re watched The Office 0:53:18.400 --> 0:53:19.080 over and over again. 0:53:20.840 --> 0:53:23.640 Marco Robbie is really good at being unhinged, and you 0:53:23.719 --> 0:53:26.880 can tell that this is going to be a slightly 0:53:27.040 --> 0:53:30.320 unhinged Barbie like without you know, leaning to into it. 0:53:30.480 --> 0:53:33.280 Like they're definitely making it a weird movie. 0:53:33.840 --> 0:53:36.279 And we had a hard enough on the. 0:53:36.320 --> 0:53:38.560 Pod and she talked a little bit about it and like, 0:53:39.200 --> 0:53:42.040 I don't think I realized, like how fucking stacked this 0:53:42.280 --> 0:53:44.920 cast is like do a lipa in this movie like 0:53:45.000 --> 0:53:46.759 so many people where I was like, oh, you're in 0:53:46.880 --> 0:53:50.880 this movie, like and so now it's like Sarah Yes, but. 0:53:50.960 --> 0:53:55.239 It's also it's also like The Ocean's eleven Yes, where 0:53:55.239 --> 0:53:57.319 it's like it's the Knives out of it All, where 0:53:57.320 --> 0:54:02.560 you're like, we need to get seventy five as actors. Now. 0:54:03.200 --> 0:54:05.640 Yeah, the only way you can have a hit these days. 0:54:05.640 --> 0:54:10.720 It needs to be all unknowns or all like literally 0:54:10.760 --> 0:54:11.920 Barack Obama has to be in. 0:54:11.960 --> 0:54:17.279 It all stars, all winners. Yes, totally, but you. 0:54:17.320 --> 0:54:19.160 Know, honestly, and this is a little bit of a throwback. 0:54:19.320 --> 0:54:22.319 The best Barbie we've ever seen in film, hands down 0:54:23.000 --> 0:54:24.880 and TV because you know, we've seen Barbie Perry in 0:54:24.920 --> 0:54:28.040 our SNL. Although I love those Epsenel skits where they 0:54:28.040 --> 0:54:31.600 have like the Barbie Instagram account. Have you seen those? 0:54:32.280 --> 0:54:35.480 Those skits are amazing. The best Barbie we've ever seen 0:54:35.520 --> 0:54:38.000 in cinema or media or whatever is Barbie from Toy 0:54:38.080 --> 0:54:41.200 Story two when they go through the toy aisle and 0:54:41.280 --> 0:54:44.520 there's tour guide Barbie. I mean that whole scene. But 0:54:44.600 --> 0:54:46.640 you know, because we get Barbie in the form of 0:54:46.719 --> 0:54:51.000 Gwendy and small soldiers, we get Barbie, like we get 0:54:51.200 --> 0:54:53.800 a Barbie without saying Barbie in a lot of types 0:54:53.840 --> 0:54:58.840 of media, and in Toy Story, we actually got branded Barbie, 0:54:58.960 --> 0:55:02.759 which made it so fun and they wrote her so funny. Yeah, 0:55:03.000 --> 0:55:05.719 that was like formative, like that whole scene as a 0:55:05.840 --> 0:55:08.759 kid watching where they like go down the Barbie aisle. 0:55:09.280 --> 0:55:13.960 I was like, Wow, there's like these moments where like 0:55:14.080 --> 0:55:18.040 my creativity or like my vision jumps leaps. 0:55:18.560 --> 0:55:19.440 That was one of them. 0:55:19.920 --> 0:55:21.360 I would say. One of the other ones was the 0:55:21.560 --> 0:55:24.160 Jeremy Scott like think pink Barbie collection. When I saw 0:55:24.200 --> 0:55:27.759 that runway, my mind, like, I think my head exploded. 0:55:27.840 --> 0:55:30.640 I think my fontanelles gave out and my brain shot 0:55:30.719 --> 0:55:32.960 out of the back of my head because I just 0:55:33.000 --> 0:55:34.920 had never I mean, I guess I love heather At 0:55:34.960 --> 0:55:37.080 and it reminded me of Heather Ret, but I had 0:55:37.160 --> 0:55:41.920 never love love. I mean, early heather At is very 0:55:42.600 --> 0:55:44.759 very barbiecore Barbie Court. 0:55:44.840 --> 0:55:51.040 Heatherat is a fashion brand that used to exist and 0:55:51.520 --> 0:55:53.279 I went to one of their shows like when I 0:55:53.480 --> 0:55:56.560 first moved to New York, and it was like a gag. 0:55:57.040 --> 0:55:59.719 I yeah, I have no ing, I've never heard of them, 0:56:00.000 --> 0:56:04.040 but I'm curious just as a collector. Like something that 0:56:04.120 --> 0:56:06.640 I was really shook by when I was like, you 0:56:06.719 --> 0:56:09.279 know when I watch your unboxing video, was that you 0:56:09.560 --> 0:56:12.879 you actually unbox these Barbies? Do you like take all 0:56:12.960 --> 0:56:15.719 of your dolls like out of boxes and like unfasten 0:56:15.800 --> 0:56:17.560 them or like I thought it was like a collector's 0:56:17.600 --> 0:56:20.080 thing to like not unboxed toys. It's like a very 0:56:20.200 --> 0:56:22.040 like I don't know anything about collector world. 0:56:22.040 --> 0:56:25.239 It's like what how do you decide like whether to 0:56:25.440 --> 0:56:28.520 unpackage or unpackage, like what to undo and not undo 0:56:29.000 --> 0:56:32.480 what you preserve? Well, nineteen fifty nine Barbie, it's not 0:56:32.600 --> 0:56:36.560 like she came shrink crapped. Yeah, like toys, toys back then, 0:56:36.640 --> 0:56:39.000 we're just you could just open the lid of it, 0:56:39.360 --> 0:56:40.960 you know, like it's in the box. It's just a 0:56:41.040 --> 0:56:46.040 box sell of my toys. Like I have a Francy. 0:56:46.239 --> 0:56:49.400 I have a mod black Francy. And you know, black 0:56:49.520 --> 0:56:51.800 dolls when they started making them were always harder to 0:56:51.840 --> 0:56:54.160 come by, and they were made in a lot smaller numbers, 0:56:54.960 --> 0:56:59.200 so a lot of times the black doll is worth more. 0:57:00.040 --> 0:57:02.040 I have like a black Fancy and she's wrapped in 0:57:02.160 --> 0:57:04.840 plastic like some of them if they come in the 0:57:04.960 --> 0:57:08.520 store plastic. Some of them have I have really old 0:57:08.640 --> 0:57:10.480 cool ones that have like the price tag from the 0:57:10.560 --> 0:57:13.880 store on it on the plastic in the box, my 0:57:14.000 --> 0:57:16.200 nineteen fifty nine, Like it was clear it had been 0:57:16.240 --> 0:57:19.200 open and handled before, so it wasn't like the steaks 0:57:19.320 --> 0:57:22.960 were me peeling back plastic, you know. But if I 0:57:23.160 --> 0:57:25.200 like something now, I'll just get two so that I 0:57:25.320 --> 0:57:27.360 have one in the closet in one I can fuck 0:57:27.400 --> 0:57:27.800 around with. 0:57:28.040 --> 0:57:31.160 Oh that's smart. I've been thinking about this recently because 0:57:31.160 --> 0:57:34.800 I'm sort of like in my collectible era. I'm like 0:57:35.080 --> 0:57:38.600 going back and finding toys from when I was a 0:57:38.720 --> 0:57:41.120 kid that I didn't get to have and buying them now. 0:57:41.920 --> 0:57:43.800 And I did recently buy And I know you'll appreciate 0:57:43.840 --> 0:57:46.280 this tricksy because I know that you like Buffy. I 0:57:46.440 --> 0:57:49.920 bought a Willow action figure recently and it's of her. 0:57:50.200 --> 0:57:53.640 It's Vampire Willow, and I have it in the box. 0:57:53.760 --> 0:57:55.920 I have it taken it out, and I do want 0:57:55.960 --> 0:57:57.320 to play with it, but there's a part of me 0:57:57.400 --> 0:58:01.240 that wants it to stay pristine in the box. And 0:58:02.640 --> 0:58:04.400 I mean, I have told this story on the pod before, 0:58:04.480 --> 0:58:06.360 but when I used to get toys as gifts when 0:58:06.360 --> 0:58:07.040 I was a kid. 0:58:07.360 --> 0:58:09.520 I would tape them back up into the box to 0:58:09.680 --> 0:58:13.600 like preserve that. It was like really psycho behavior. No, 0:58:13.800 --> 0:58:17.400 I think, I honestly think that the packaging, to me, 0:58:17.560 --> 0:58:20.160 is part of the collectible. It's not a shell. I 0:58:20.200 --> 0:58:24.160 think it's part of it. I think it being packaged 0:58:24.280 --> 0:58:26.160 is part of and the way it's packaged is also 0:58:26.240 --> 0:58:28.160 part of the time capsule of it. This is how 0:58:28.240 --> 0:58:31.680 things were packaged at this time, and with Barbie especially, 0:58:32.360 --> 0:58:35.600 every aspect of it is a time capsule. This is 0:58:35.640 --> 0:58:38.600 what women wore. Oh, Barbie was a flight attendant. That's 0:58:38.640 --> 0:58:40.160 because at this time women that was one of the 0:58:40.240 --> 0:58:43.080 first jobs that women were doing. Like, every part of 0:58:43.160 --> 0:58:45.440 it is a time capsule, and so the packaging is 0:58:45.480 --> 0:58:48.560 part of that, the fonts, the colors, the wording. So 0:58:48.880 --> 0:58:50.480 most of the time I don't want to open it. 0:58:51.120 --> 0:58:55.760 But because I collect mostly like sixty two to let's say, 0:58:55.800 --> 0:59:00.160 like seventy one, because I collect that era, a lot 0:59:00.200 --> 0:59:03.160 of what I have is not boxed, and if I 0:59:03.240 --> 0:59:05.480 have it boxed, it's worth way more and I have 0:59:05.640 --> 0:59:08.160 to like care for it like in a safety deposit box. 0:59:08.920 --> 0:59:10.840 Like I have my number I have my number one 0:59:11.040 --> 0:59:14.760 on display here, but it's not my number one. It's 0:59:14.840 --> 0:59:17.280 a reproduction of a number one because I want people 0:59:17.320 --> 0:59:19.160 to ask about it and I want to say, yes, 0:59:19.200 --> 0:59:20.840 I really have it, but this isn't it because I 0:59:20.840 --> 0:59:21.760 don't trust you in my home. 0:59:21.840 --> 0:59:25.920 It's a conversation piece. Yeah, when you die, do you 0:59:26.280 --> 0:59:29.600 want to be put into a sort of life size 0:59:29.960 --> 0:59:35.880 Barbie box and wrapped in plastic? We can, because it happen, but. 0:59:35.960 --> 0:59:38.000 That's kind of giving Dori and Corey. Don't you think 0:59:38.920 --> 0:59:40.200 wrapping a body in plastic? 0:59:40.680 --> 0:59:43.480 Yeah, you know, maybe glass? 0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:48.280 Yeah, maybe I will. Oh my god, this is horrible, 0:59:48.320 --> 0:59:49.200 but uh. 0:59:50.600 --> 0:59:50.880 Maybe. 0:59:51.200 --> 0:59:52.800 I don't know how I want to die. I probably 0:59:52.880 --> 0:59:56.200 want a pink coffin though, for sure, or a pink eurn, 0:59:56.440 --> 0:59:59.280 like I want. Pink means a lot to me, and 1:00:00.200 --> 1:00:02.840 it's my you know, it's sort of my my trauma 1:00:02.920 --> 1:00:05.800 bond with that color is so extreme and like it 1:00:05.880 --> 1:00:09.120 means so much to me that you know, everything being 1:00:09.160 --> 1:00:11.040 pink makes me. I mean just the color pink makes 1:00:11.080 --> 1:00:13.560 me happy. I mean that's like corny and most people 1:00:13.840 --> 1:00:15.919 when they're like the pink Lady of Hollywood or whatever, 1:00:16.080 --> 1:00:18.919 it's like a sign of like, ooh, that person's wild 1:00:19.120 --> 1:00:22.000 when they're like, I'm all pink every day, but I 1:00:22.160 --> 1:00:25.400 love pink, and so I don't know. But then again, 1:00:25.440 --> 1:00:28.080 one time I saw it was like the show Obsessed 1:00:28.320 --> 1:00:30.680 or with this woman. If you guys ever seen that 1:00:30.720 --> 1:00:32.480 episode of that, that woman her husband died and she 1:00:32.600 --> 1:00:35.200 would lick her finger and fund dip his ashes, and 1:00:35.240 --> 1:00:38.600 she was addicted to eating his ashes. So if David 1:00:38.640 --> 1:00:40.360 doesn't do that, if David doesn't do that for me, 1:00:40.440 --> 1:00:44.160 he doesn't love me. And they were like, well, what 1:00:44.200 --> 1:00:46.080 happens when you run onto the ashes? And she was like, 1:00:46.120 --> 1:00:47.000 I don't know what I'm gonna do. 1:00:48.480 --> 1:00:50.120 Is I'm going to do that to you when I 1:00:50.240 --> 1:00:50.480 kill you? 1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:52.960 Oh yeah, oh thank you, that's so sweet. 1:00:53.120 --> 1:00:54.680 But I'll also snort your ashes. 1:00:55.120 --> 1:00:57.120 Oh yeah, I mean you'll get a I don't even 1:00:57.160 --> 1:00:58.200 know how that would make you feel. 1:00:58.320 --> 1:01:01.200 Probably it will be in the hines on Fire Island 1:01:01.280 --> 1:01:03.560 and I'll be like, this one's for Fran. Actually, this 1:01:03.640 --> 1:01:04.640 one is Fran. 1:01:05.840 --> 1:01:07.560 Am I am I an upper or a downer? 1:01:07.680 --> 1:01:10.920 What do you think? I think you start as an 1:01:11.000 --> 1:01:12.960 upper and then we go down? 1:01:13.160 --> 1:01:15.280 Okay, love, Yeah, that's a that's a good. That's a 1:01:15.320 --> 1:01:15.960 good little arc. 1:01:17.440 --> 1:01:18.040 I wow. 1:01:18.120 --> 1:01:21.000 I mean maybe I'll be in my doll collecting era too. Now, Rose, 1:01:21.080 --> 1:01:22.760 now that you're doing you should, I mean, if I could. 1:01:22.840 --> 1:01:24.880 If you guys are really anybody who's listening wants to 1:01:24.920 --> 1:01:27.600 really nerd out. There's this book called Forever Barbie by 1:01:27.800 --> 1:01:33.720 MG Lords, and it's basically her like deep dive into 1:01:34.160 --> 1:01:38.640 the cultural, societal whatever significance is of Barbie, and she 1:01:38.920 --> 1:01:44.960 really elegantly illustrates the extreme butterfly effect that that toy 1:01:45.080 --> 1:01:49.680 had on the world, because in some ways Barbie influences 1:01:49.920 --> 1:01:53.360 the world, but in many ways, Barbie is just reflecting 1:01:53.440 --> 1:01:57.000 what's going on. So like in the sixties when like 1:01:57.200 --> 1:01:59.520 or like in the early seventies, when like Brady Bunch happened, 1:02:00.080 --> 1:02:02.400 suddenly Malibu Barbie happened and she happened to look a 1:02:02.480 --> 1:02:05.520 lot like jan or Marsha Brady, and then like you know, 1:02:05.640 --> 1:02:08.840 there's just there's ways where you can track when Barbie 1:02:08.920 --> 1:02:11.760 is mirroring what's popular in the world. And then because 1:02:11.760 --> 1:02:14.720 Bardie's around so long, you can track ways that Barbie 1:02:14.880 --> 1:02:18.160 itself because in nineteen fifty nine, what was Barbie style. 1:02:18.400 --> 1:02:21.560 Barbie style was reflecting the fashion of teenagers of the time, 1:02:22.360 --> 1:02:26.320 and now Barbie style is its own style, yeah, which 1:02:26.320 --> 1:02:29.200 I think is really interesting. Yeah. I mean that's as 1:02:29.280 --> 1:02:29.760 we've noted. 1:02:29.800 --> 1:02:31.680 That's like why you know, the barbiees of the of 1:02:31.760 --> 1:02:34.920 the aughts were wearing north faces and ugs as as 1:02:34.960 --> 1:02:37.160 they should be Tom's shoes. 1:02:36.880 --> 1:02:39.560 You know, not Tom shoes. 1:02:40.000 --> 1:02:41.800 Yeah. Next, like I bet you next year Barbie's are 1:02:41.800 --> 1:02:43.800 going to have those dumb puffy red boots that are 1:02:43.960 --> 1:02:44.640 going to be big. Now. 1:02:44.880 --> 1:02:46.680 Yeah, I guess the thing that maybe the thing to 1:02:46.800 --> 1:02:49.400 end on is like I'm thinking about, like what's the 1:02:49.560 --> 1:02:52.200 what's the Barbie of the twenty twenties, Like, like what 1:02:52.400 --> 1:02:54.200 is cool? I know that you know, she is her 1:02:54.240 --> 1:02:57.440 own style obviously, but like hypothetically, like I don't even 1:02:57.480 --> 1:02:58.680 know what twenty twenties culture. 1:02:58.760 --> 1:03:01.080 It's kind of like twenty twenty five Barbie. Okay, here's 1:03:01.080 --> 1:03:03.479 what here's what is it? What he's wearing. She's wearing 1:03:03.480 --> 1:03:08.320 a pair of Margiala tabbies. She's got a bottle of Estradle, 1:03:09.920 --> 1:03:12.760 and she's got she's got a microphone set to do 1:03:12.840 --> 1:03:13.520 her podcast. 1:03:13.760 --> 1:03:16.520 Oh yeah, and but she DJs on the weekends for sure, 1:03:16.920 --> 1:03:18.800 totally and by DJing, I mean, she just has a 1:03:18.840 --> 1:03:21.840 MacBook and she literally is on Spotify. Yeah, yeah, she's 1:03:21.880 --> 1:03:25.000 on Spotify. Yeah, And I think I think they can 1:03:25.080 --> 1:03:28.160 of the twenty twenty threes. It's like, you know, Trimex, 1:03:28.680 --> 1:03:34.600 it's ozempic, it's it's injectable. Tanner, it's a unit, it's 1:03:34.600 --> 1:03:35.240 a mile unit. 1:03:35.600 --> 1:03:37.040 Yes, he's on a. 1:03:37.040 --> 1:03:40.960 Turkey for the hairlines. Your size too, yeah yeah yeah. 1:03:41.520 --> 1:03:44.200 But but I mean, if we're ending all jokes aside, 1:03:44.320 --> 1:03:46.960 like when you really sit and think of like the 1:03:47.200 --> 1:03:50.480 massive impact. We always talk about the impact Barbie has, 1:03:50.520 --> 1:03:53.560 but when you really think about the massive positive impact, 1:03:54.280 --> 1:03:57.760 I mean, this toy opened up a possibility for women 1:03:57.840 --> 1:03:59.760 to imagine their life to be anything at a time 1:03:59.800 --> 1:04:02.320 where they were only encouraged to imagine to be moms. 1:04:02.560 --> 1:04:06.000 I mean, it really is incredible, and I'm excited. 1:04:05.680 --> 1:04:06.080 For the movie. 1:04:06.160 --> 1:04:07.960 To be honest, the Doll of twenty twenty three is 1:04:08.040 --> 1:04:11.240 going to probably be whatever most popular look for the movie. 1:04:11.320 --> 1:04:12.880 That's what's because you know that Mattel is going to 1:04:12.920 --> 1:04:14.439 make outfits of all of those for sale. 1:04:14.560 --> 1:04:15.320 Yes, damn. 1:04:15.440 --> 1:04:18.840 Like yeah, I feel like now people for the next 1:04:19.080 --> 1:04:21.920 year and or two, Like, just as you said, barbiecore 1:04:22.000 --> 1:04:23.280 is going to be back again, and we're all going 1:04:23.360 --> 1:04:26.640 to be dressing like Barbie's and you know, Bigbocre has 1:04:26.720 --> 1:04:28.320 been back for a while. You know, I think of 1:04:28.440 --> 1:04:31.040 like faggots with white walls and gold fixtures and plants 1:04:31.080 --> 1:04:35.360 in their houses, like that is so like needs to 1:04:35.440 --> 1:04:40.560 be retired. That like geriatric millennial approach to like living 1:04:40.760 --> 1:04:45.240 is so tired, no whispers, Yes, it's so tired. And 1:04:45.400 --> 1:04:47.960 so I think Barbiecore is a reflection of I mean, 1:04:47.960 --> 1:04:51.440 we experienced this at the Trixy Motel. Maximalism is swinging 1:04:51.560 --> 1:04:56.080 back so hard and what's more like fabricated and fun 1:04:56.160 --> 1:04:59.000 and bouncy and synthetic feeling than like Barbiecore. I mean. 1:05:00.240 --> 1:05:02.280 And what's funny is it's gonna surge and it's gonna 1:05:02.280 --> 1:05:04.600 go away, but not for that long. I meane, Barbiecore. 1:05:05.480 --> 1:05:07.200 Now it's gonna be all these cool articles about it, 1:05:07.280 --> 1:05:08.800 but it's always around. 1:05:08.920 --> 1:05:10.880 It's around, She'll really about. 1:05:11.760 --> 1:05:14.720 Yeah, all pink is the same as all blacks. Some 1:05:14.800 --> 1:05:15.320 people were all. 1:05:15.280 --> 1:05:17.680 Black, some people were all think that's the binary. Those 1:05:17.680 --> 1:05:26.840 are the two genders. Slide into our dms and let 1:05:26.920 --> 1:05:29.840 us know, are you a Barbie girl? Are you just ken? 1:05:30.880 --> 1:05:32.480 Did you play with dolls when you were a kid. 1:05:32.880 --> 1:05:33.560 Are you a doll? 1:05:33.720 --> 1:05:33.880 Now? 1:05:34.160 --> 1:05:39.040 We want to know? You can also buy our merchant 1:05:39.160 --> 1:05:41.400 Like a Virgin for twenty sixty nine dot com and 1:05:41.880 --> 1:05:44.680 become patron at Patreon dot com slash Like a Virgin 1:05:44.840 --> 1:05:48.240 four weekly bonus episodes. You can follow us at Like 1:05:48.280 --> 1:05:50.840 a Virgin for twenty sixty nine on Instagram, and you 1:05:50.920 --> 1:05:54.480 can follow me anywhere you want at ros Daumu, and 1:05:54.600 --> 1:05:56.920 you can follow me at Franz squish Goo anywhere you like. 1:05:57.680 --> 1:06:00.760 Like a Virgin is an iHeartRadio production, and our producer 1:06:01.000 --> 1:06:04.680 is Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Etour. 1:06:05.680 --> 1:06:18.280 Until next week, Au revoir Bye, good bye, Well and 1:06:18.400 --> 1:06:21.000 here's a clip from this week's Patreon episode. You can 1:06:21.040 --> 1:06:24.560 become a patron at Patreon dot com slash Like a Virgin. 1:06:24.960 --> 1:06:27.040 The book that we're talking about today is one that 1:06:27.120 --> 1:06:30.920 I mentioned on the main show earlier this year, Fingersmith 1:06:31.000 --> 1:06:36.320 by Sarah Waters, which I finished a month ago now 1:06:36.400 --> 1:06:38.800 at this point, just because of various scheduling things, it 1:06:39.520 --> 1:06:41.440 took a long time for me to read it, and 1:06:41.520 --> 1:06:44.120 then took a while for us to actually record this episode, 1:06:44.480 --> 1:06:47.439 so thank you virgins who actually did read the book 1:06:47.480 --> 1:06:51.920 and have been anxiously awaiting us talking about it. But 1:06:52.160 --> 1:06:54.520 we are going to be talking about it today, and 1:06:54.600 --> 1:06:59.080 we'll also be talking about the two films that were 1:07:00.320 --> 1:07:05.960 that were adapted from it, the BBC mini series also 1:07:06.040 --> 1:07:10.360 called Fingersmith, and then the film The Handmaiden, And. 1:07:10.600 --> 1:07:12.880 These are so I just for the virgins have never 1:07:12.920 --> 1:07:15.920 read the book. I have never seen the miniseries. But 1:07:16.080 --> 1:07:19.520 The Handmaid in its adaptation, which is very different from 1:07:19.520 --> 1:07:22.360 the book, we'll get into it is extremely different. Is 1:07:22.480 --> 1:07:25.520 one of my favorite queer films ever. Like I think 1:07:25.560 --> 1:07:28.320 it's like such a good point of reference for anybody 1:07:28.520 --> 1:07:32.040 that considers themselves a sinophile in the queer space. It's 1:07:32.120 --> 1:07:35.600 like to meet required viewing if you want to brush 1:07:35.720 --> 1:07:39.800 up on like queer cinema in general, because like part 1:07:39.920 --> 1:07:42.920 Chan Wook is, I mean, such a phenomenal director. But 1:07:43.080 --> 1:07:48.760 beyond that, it's just like you don't see WLW romances 1:07:49.240 --> 1:07:51.240 like this ever, like not even. 1:07:51.080 --> 1:07:54.280 In a case do see WLW sex scenes like this 1:07:54.720 --> 1:07:57.280 in porn, which I think is part of the problem. Well, 1:07:57.480 --> 1:07:59.960 and we'll we'll get to my thoughts on the hand 1:08:00.160 --> 1:08:01.800 Made And I first would like to talk about the 1:08:01.880 --> 1:08:05.480 book to give you some context for when we get Yes, 1:08:05.520 --> 1:08:11.160 please to conversations. So Fingersmith is a two thousand and 1:08:11.200 --> 1:08:13.960 two novel written by Sarah Waters, who is a renowned 1:08:14.640 --> 1:08:18.960 British lesbian author. She primarily writes historical fiction, and most 1:08:19.040 --> 1:08:24.720 of her most celebrated work has lesbian themes lesbian characters. 1:08:25.400 --> 1:08:27.920 Her novel Tipping the Velvet, which is her first book, 1:08:28.160 --> 1:08:32.040 is my favorite book of all time, Oh Fingersmith, really. 1:08:31.920 --> 1:08:34.800 Of all time, like all time meaning, like of all 1:08:34.880 --> 1:08:35.400 time meaning. 1:08:35.680 --> 1:08:37.439 But it is among like. 1:08:38.240 --> 1:08:40.680 A top ten books of all time. I assume it's 1:08:40.720 --> 1:08:41.760 not like the number one. 1:08:42.439 --> 1:08:44.519 No, it is the number one. It's my favorite book. 1:08:46.640 --> 1:08:49.720 My job is I've said this on the podcast before. Okay, no, no, no, 1:08:49.880 --> 1:08:53.519 I'm not doubting you. I'm just I'm just always learning 1:08:53.680 --> 1:08:57.200 and relearning your favorites and your tops, which I love well. 1:08:57.240 --> 1:08:59.280 I mean, is that that surprising because as we've talked 1:08:59.280 --> 1:09:04.840 about on this, I love historical fiction and specifically queer history, 1:09:04.920 --> 1:09:08.800 and this is really well written queer historical fiction, which 1:09:08.880 --> 1:09:11.360 is usually not the case. Like usually it's like you know, 1:09:11.840 --> 1:09:18.240 a mod it's like Roman honest ripper. Yeah, yeah, the 1:09:18.439 --> 1:09:23.559 the term that we coined. So you know, I loved 1:09:25.000 --> 1:09:29.360 Tipping the Velvet, and Tipping the Velvet is very much 1:09:29.400 --> 1:09:34.840 about queerness, but it's much more and and it's about identity, 1:09:35.120 --> 1:09:38.479 but it has much more to do with gender, because 1:09:38.560 --> 1:09:43.679 Tipping the Velvet is all about cross dressing. It's about 1:09:43.760 --> 1:09:48.640 these performers, these female performers who dress up as men, 1:09:48.840 --> 1:09:54.040 and this woman who like become this woman who becomes 1:09:54.520 --> 1:09:57.760 a rent boy when she's like cast out by her lover, 1:09:57.960 --> 1:10:00.360 she starts dressing up as a man and engaging sex 1:10:00.439 --> 1:10:03.800 work and then you know, becomes sort of like an 1:10:03.880 --> 1:10:08.040 in house concubine of this rich lesbian who has this 1:10:08.479 --> 1:10:16.960 circle of other rich lesbians. So I loved Sarah Waters, 1:10:17.840 --> 1:10:22.960 and I had probably seen like an article or something 1:10:23.040 --> 1:10:26.080 talking about Fingersmith earlier this year. So I bought it. 1:10:26.280 --> 1:10:30.920 And it was very hard getting into because the beginning 1:10:31.040 --> 1:10:37.040 is very slow, and I sort of like waffled on 1:10:37.160 --> 1:10:41.160 about it for a while, and then like one day 1:10:41.160 --> 1:10:43.800 I finally just like sat down and really powered through 1:10:44.720 --> 1:10:47.360 the beginning, and once it picked up a certain amount 1:10:47.400 --> 1:10:50.160 of steam, I just could not put it down. And 1:10:51.840 --> 1:10:56.200 so the novel is set in the Victorian era in England. 1:10:56.880 --> 1:11:00.479 The there are two protagonists, but the one whose story 1:11:01.000 --> 1:11:03.800 we follow from the beginning is an orphan named Sue 1:11:04.520 --> 1:11:07.720 who is part of a family of thieves and criminals, 1:11:08.400 --> 1:11:12.160 and she has been raised by this woman missus Sucksby, 1:11:13.040 --> 1:11:16.360 and their family are all these like pickpockets, and they're 1:11:16.560 --> 1:11:19.840 called fingersmiths. That's where the title of novel comes from. 1:11:20.600 --> 1:11:24.400 And on a dark and stormy night, this family friend 1:11:24.640 --> 1:11:27.800 called Gentleman comes to their house and says that he 1:11:27.920 --> 1:11:31.280 has a job for Sue. He has been posing as 1:11:31.280 --> 1:11:36.200 an aristocratic man in this countryside estate, helping this man 1:11:36.320 --> 1:11:41.360 who has a large book collection, and he has discovered 1:11:41.400 --> 1:11:43.439 that this man has a niece who has like a 1:11:43.640 --> 1:11:47.360 huge dowry to her name, and he wants to cheat 1:11:47.400 --> 1:11:49.800 her out of it. So his plan is that Sue. 1:11:50.320 --> 1:11:54.679 He will recommend Sue as this woman her name's Maud, 1:11:54.880 --> 1:11:59.800 as her new mate lady's maid, and Sue will help 1:12:00.160 --> 1:12:02.880 him woo her and marry her so that he can 1:12:02.960 --> 1:12:04.960 get access to her, so that he can get access 1:12:04.960 --> 1:12:08.320 to her fortune, and then she will and then she 1:12:08.400 --> 1:12:13.240 will help him prove that Maud is mad and have 1:12:13.400 --> 1:12:16.920 her dumped in a madhouse so that he can you know, 1:12:17.000 --> 1:12:19.479 run them UK with her money and Sue will get 1:12:20.280 --> 1:12:22.600 a portion of the funds and that will be her 1:12:22.680 --> 1:12:24.880 payment for you know, running this con with him